Re: Now about JNDI

2004-03-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar
Also, there is a load of simple (mostly in-memory) open source JNDI
implementations. Several others with Apache compatible licenses too.
If you want to make something new, that's not it either.

Good luck,
Paulo
Noel J. Bergman wrote:

What about JNDI libs? Is it been built as part of Geronimo, or is there a
single project to keep it´s developement?


See http://incubator.apache.org/directory/

	--- Noel

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RE: Proposal: Jakarta should protect community email addresses

2003-07-01 Thread Paulo Gaspar
Same here. (although I am glad I am not as popular as you! 300???!!!)

I was getting afraid that some servers would just start blocking my
email from this address... but this got to such a dimension that I
am sure all sysadmins must know how it works by now.

There was a time I thought I was really somehow infected, but I am
offline during weekends and I just get too much warnings from
antivirus email filters on Monday.

So, people: just get your machine offline for a while if you use
Outlook and have this kind of doubt.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: sexta-feira, 27 de Junho de 2003 17:48
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Proposal: Jakarta should protect community email addresses


 That is exactly what happens with this particular worm.  If your address
 is in the address book of someone who gets infected, not only do *you*
 start to receive the messages, messages with forged from headers with
 your name on them also go out.  Then, the volume of messages is made worse
 by all of those helpful spam filters that catch the fact that the virus
 is included, and return a notification to the (forged) sender.

 Obscuring email addresses in the archives would have zero impact on this
 particular problem.

 Craig (just cleaned out about 300 of these from this morning's mail)


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RE: Linux Magazine article

2002-10-25 Thread Paulo Gaspar
Jon's predictions never became truth...
...probably because J2EE is not interesting enough!
=;o)

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken;apache.org]
 Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:09 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Linux Magazine article

...

 Some history info:
 http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=java-apache-frameworkm=97567909732611w=2


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  - verba volant, scripta manent -
 (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)


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RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???

2002-07-18 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 yeah. And it's got a template language called Smarty which is *way*
 better than velocity!!!

From the problems we are having with Smarty, it does not seem good 
enough even for a Alpha release.
=:oP


Have fun,
Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Leo Simons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:04 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
 
 
   Is that site generated by maven ? ;))
   
   Mvgr,
   Martin
  
  Anakia
  
  I hate to admit it here, but the output is .html files which are then
  processed through PHP. I'm going to be moving away from even 
 using Anakia
  and just using PHP.
  
  PHP is terribly fugly and encourages the worst code design 
 ever, but you can
  get a lot more done with it in a short amount of time and there 
 is no way in
  hell I would ever lower myself to using JSP.
  
  =)
 
 yeah. And it's got a template language called Smarty which is *way*
 better than velocity!!!
 
 :P
 
 - Leo, who figured there was another flamefest when he saw all those
 e-mails and is now eagerly waiting for a picture of a crossdressing
 jon...
 
 



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RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???

2002-07-17 Thread Paulo Gaspar

ROTFL

BTW, nice touch that photo!
=;o)

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:13 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
 
 
 Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  [...] we should be getting some more powerful mail list 
 servers, just in case.
 
 Not needed. Trust me.
 
 Pier (the mail master)
 
 
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RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???

2002-07-17 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/love.html

With a file name like this, I miss a pink hearts background.

Does anyone have one of those to contribute?


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 9:03 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
 
 
 on 7/17/02 11:21 AM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  ROTFL
  
  BTW, nice touch that photo!
  =;o)
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo
 
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/love.html
 
 Amazing what a symlink can do.
 
 -jon
 
 
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RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???

2002-07-17 Thread Paulo Gaspar

And even better is there is a revenge:
 - Lots of pictures!

=:o)

Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:58 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
 
 
 Tool late ;) We want to see that picture..
 
 Mvgr,
 Martin
 On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 01:54, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
  Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   on 7/17/02 4:30 PM, Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Pier, I have pictures of you that I can blackmail you with as 
 well...=)
  
  Okokokok :) I'll just shut up now! :) I swear I'm not going to do that
  anymore! :) :) :) :)
  
  Pier
  
  --
  [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp:  a billion 
 of different
  sublanguages in  one monolithic executable.  It combines the 
 power of C with
  the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - 
 San Francisco]
  
  
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RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???

2002-07-17 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 PHP is terribly fugly and encourages the worst code design ever, 
 but you can
 get a lot more done with it in a short amount of time and there 
 is no way in
 hell I would ever lower myself to using JSP.

Same here. I am starting to have stuff that must be done in PHP
too and those are exactly my thoughts.

But I still make weird stuff faster with my Java thing which
includes using Velocity + Pnuts.

(Pnuts is a Java based scripting language that can compile to Java
 bytecode on the fly:
   http://javacenter.sun.co.jp/pnuts/
)


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 12:52 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
 
 
 on 7/17/02 3:43 PM, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Is that site generated by maven ? ;))
  
  Mvgr,
  Martin
 
 Anakia
 
 I hate to admit it here, but the output is .html files which are then
 processed through PHP. I'm going to be moving away from even using Anakia
 and just using PHP.
 
 PHP is terribly fugly and encourages the worst code design ever, 
 but you can
 get a lot more done with it in a short amount of time and there 
 is no way in
 hell I would ever lower myself to using JSP.
 
 =)
 
 -jon



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RE: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002

2002-06-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

+1
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:42 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002
 
 
 On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Peter Donald wrote:
 
  I would actually prefer no peer review (or at least no binding peer 
  review). If people want to have a say what goes into it then 
 they should 
  get off their butts and write something for it ;)
 
 +1
 
 Costin
 
  
  I am sure that the writers will be at responsible enough (and 
 if not we can 
  yank
their privlidges to post it to announcement list)
  
  At 04:19 PM 6/5/2002 +0100, you wrote:
  Rob Oxspring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
Jakarta Newsletter
==
Issue: 0
Date: May 2002
  
  Great job... I'd like to propose the following: peer review on 
 this mailing
  list, vote request, and then send it off on announcements... 
 This can be
  done every month if Rob is willing to keep up with the pace of 
 my flamewars.
  
   Pier
  
  
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RE: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002

2002-06-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

GREAT job Rob.

I like the level of detail very much. 

For me it should be no less detailed: if it is to save me the hassle of 
following a list, the newsletter MUST have some detail. I am not 
expecting a management digest - I am a developer and not a manager.

I am talking in the first person but I am guessing that we do not have
many of those managers that like to avoid the technical details around.

The mail archive URLs are also very nice.


Regards,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Rob Oxspring [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:41 AM
 To: 'Jakarta General List'
 Subject: RE: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002
 
 
 Thanks Erik,
 
 I think its gonna take a few of us keeping it high priority to get the
 ball rolling properly - it took me long enough to get around to this one
 (though whats 6 months between software engineers) - i.e. although a
 calendar alarm has been set for next month, prods and reminders are
 definitely appreciated :)
 
 You are probably right re the level of detail - its partially just my
 style showing through but also because I thought it'd look a bit empty
 with just general, ant and commons on there.  I think a lot of this sort
 of thing will vary with the style of the individual column authors and
 the level of activity within each project, IMHO this variation should
 make it a more interesting read and should be encouraged - at least for
 the first few months while we don't know what's best.
 
 Rob
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Erik Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: 5 June 2002 23:45
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: Re: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002
  
  
  Rob,
  
  Very nice.  I've been keeping this idea high on my to-do list 
  and I'm glad to see you finally get to it.
  
  This is more detailed than future ones probably should be, 
  and that would likely be the case when other projects get 
  incorporated anyway.
  
  Great job, and you can count on me assisting you with this in 
  any way possible in the future.
  
  Erik
  
  
  - Original Message -
  From: Rob Oxspring [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:57 AM
  Subject: Jakarta Newsletter - May 2002
  
  
   Jakarta Newsletter
   ==
   Issue: 0
   Date: May 2002
  
   A Jakarta newsletter has been mentioned a few times on the general 
   list
  and
   so I figured it was high time that one was produced. The 
  discussions 
   previously seemed to settle on a monthly affair with a a regular 
   change of editorship. The aim is that for the future, 
  different people 
   will take
  over
   different sections for a limited period so that nobody gets bogged 
   down
  with
   the chore unless they want to - some lists may have a series of 
   volunteers step up, other projects may choose to add newsletter 
   editing as a regular responsibility for each of their active 
   committers.
  
   Hopefully this will lead to a dynamic monthly newsletter 
  that can be 
   sent out on the announcement list (or a new newsletter one) 
  and try to 
   keep people informed of what all the projects are up to 
  without having 
   to
  monitor
   all the projects
  
   This issue is entirely edited my myself rather than a set of 
   developers
  and
   as a direct result is limited to the dev lists I monitor properly. 
   With
  luck
   others will help out future issues providing a varied style 
  and more 
   complete content.
  
   Rob Oxspring
  
  
  
   General
   ===
  
   This month saw the first ever veto of a new committer in the Tomcat 
   subproject. [1] The resulting threads from this discussed how much a
  person
   should have to do before being given committer rights [2] and what 
   they should have had to do. This in turn lead to a proposed 
  rethink of 
   the current rights and roles at Jakarta - can non-coders be 
   committers? should people be given voting rights without 
  CVS access? - 
   should they be given
  CVS
   access without the hassle of voting rights? The answers 
  seemed to be 
   probably, possibly and probably not respectively [3] On a similar 
   note, there was a brief look at how best to welcome and nurture 
   volunteers to
  keep
   Jakarta growing and progressing [4]
  
   An announcement of a new in house mail archive using EyeBrowse [5] 
   lead to
  a
   few threads regarding the infrastructure available at Jakarta. The 
   main focus was on whether to switch from Bugzilla to Scarab [6,7] 
   although Subversion was also mentioned with anticipation. There was 
   also discussion of the best way to measure project activity and how 
   useful such a metric would be [8].
  
   Related to the infrastructure and to project activity, Maven was 
   advocated by Jon Scott Stevens as a build system we should all be 
   using. The ensuing flame war included a lot of Centipede vs 
  Maven, XSL 
   vs Velocity, and other Ego clashes. The result seems

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

2002-05-29 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Despite all the arguments I still can NOT see why it should be 
more complicated than this (Sam + Jon definitions).


Probably the system is already as good as it can get.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 5:59 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

...

  
  A developer can suggest a change.
  
  A committer can make it happen.
  
  - Sam Ruby
 
 Anyone can suggest a change.
 
 A developer can submit a patch.
 
 A committer can make it happen.
 
 ;-)
 
 -jon


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RE: You guys are so funny.

2002-05-05 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Do you want a list of other funny channels?
=;o)

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 11:19 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: You guys are so funny. 
 
 
 Sorry, didn't intend to throw the whole mail at you.
 
 I haven't been around as long as you (probably a little over a year),
 but this is one of my favorite lists.  It's far more entertaining than
 television :-)
 
 Jeff Schnitzer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 10:00 AM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: RE: You guys are so funny.
  
  Hey Jeff,
  
  
  I can agree with all you say but I don't understand why you throw
  this on my direction.
  
  I have been defending the existence of competing projects since the
  Tomcat 3.3 versus Tomcat 4 wars until my most recent posts at the
  commons-dev list.
  
  Maybe you do not follow the same lists I do. Maybe not for long
  enough.
  
  If you read Jon's postings along this thread, you will also be
  better informed about whom has a thin skin problem.
  
  
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 11:59 AM
   To: Jakarta General List
   Subject: RE: You guys are so funny.
  
  
From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   
Of course that from the way Jon talks about me you can tell that
I do not always agree with him - Jon seems to only be friendly
to those that agree with him.
  
   For the record, I've even committed the cardinal sin of creating a
 MVC
   webapp framework which is not Turbine (http://mav.sourceforge.net),
 and
   Jon is still pretty friendly to me :-)
  
  
   You guys all need to lighten up.  It's not like this is a workplace
   where everyone is competing for promotions or something.  How this
   social game plays out isn't going to affect your paycheck or the
 people
   who hang out with you or whether or not you're going to get laid
 this
   weekend.
  
   A fair amount of banter is healthy in any community.  Poking fun at
 each
   other, lighthearted insults, competition, and yes conflict are a
   standard part of any sitcom production.  Sure, there's a time for
 we
   all love each other mushy-type stuff but if it was like that all
 the
   time it would get boring really damn fast.  It is my observation
 that
   Apache works because of thick skins, not because of peace, love, and
   happiness vibes.
  
   There's nothing wrong with a limited number of competing projects
 under
   one roof.  It's probably even a good idea.  It's not like Maven and
   Centipede are competing implementations of the same API - this is
 pretty
   much a research field, and it's impossible to categorically predict
 at
   this point whether it is better to extend or generate the Gump
   descriptors, or to use XSLT or DVSL, etc.  Until the science becomes
   engineering, this mad driving need (among some) to merge merge
 merge
   is a pathology.
  
   Let it be.  Use the software you like.  Write the software you like.
   Berate people over the truly important things, like choice of text
   editor :-)
  
   Jeff Schnitzer
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   ed is the *standard* text editor
  
  
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RE: You guys are so funny.

2002-05-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Hey Jeff,


I can agree with all you say but I don't understand why you throw
this on my direction.

I have been defending the existence of competing projects since the
Tomcat 3.3 versus Tomcat 4 wars until my most recent posts at the
commons-dev list.

Maybe you do not follow the same lists I do. Maybe not for long 
enough.

If you read Jon's postings along this thread, you will also be 
better informed about whom has a thin skin problem.



Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 11:59 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: You guys are so funny. 
 
 
  From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  
  Of course that from the way Jon talks about me you can tell that
  I do not always agree with him - Jon seems to only be friendly
  to those that agree with him.
 
 For the record, I've even committed the cardinal sin of creating a MVC
 webapp framework which is not Turbine (http://mav.sourceforge.net), and
 Jon is still pretty friendly to me :-)
 
 
 You guys all need to lighten up.  It's not like this is a workplace
 where everyone is competing for promotions or something.  How this
 social game plays out isn't going to affect your paycheck or the people
 who hang out with you or whether or not you're going to get laid this
 weekend.
 
 A fair amount of banter is healthy in any community.  Poking fun at each
 other, lighthearted insults, competition, and yes conflict are a
 standard part of any sitcom production.  Sure, there's a time for we
 all love each other mushy-type stuff but if it was like that all the
 time it would get boring really damn fast.  It is my observation that
 Apache works because of thick skins, not because of peace, love, and
 happiness vibes.
 
 There's nothing wrong with a limited number of competing projects under
 one roof.  It's probably even a good idea.  It's not like Maven and
 Centipede are competing implementations of the same API - this is pretty
 much a research field, and it's impossible to categorically predict at
 this point whether it is better to extend or generate the Gump
 descriptors, or to use XSLT or DVSL, etc.  Until the science becomes
 engineering, this mad driving need (among some) to merge merge merge
 is a pathology.
 
 Let it be.  Use the software you like.  Write the software you like.
 Berate people over the truly important things, like choice of text
 editor :-)
 
 Jeff Schnitzer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ed is the *standard* text editor


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RE: Maven is growing

2002-05-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

It is as stupid to go after Jon like a mad dog as it is stupid to
say Amen to everything he says and the way he says it.

There must be a balance somewhere.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 5:08 PM
 
 
 On 5/4/02 10:45 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I propose this alternative:
  
  http://www.krysalis.org/jon/
  
  ;-)
  
 
 Yep - that is the one I was going to find.  I think it's right up 
 there with
 the other one to help people come to terms with Jon...
 
 ...


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RE: Maven is growing

2002-05-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Andy, I generally agree with what says in the page you pointed to.

When I disagree with what Jon says I push back and when I agree I
am not afraid of saying so.

If you read my recent postings here you will notice I generally
agree with Jon about the Velocity vs. XSLT issue. OTOH I tend to
disagree on stopping some project because there is already a 
similar one.

And now we both think Maven is a good thing, although similar
projects already existed.


I don't feel I go after Jon like a mad dog. I just feel that I am
not afraid of disagreeing with him.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 7:31 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: Maven is growing
 
 
 Ehh, just don't take it seriously when you go after him like a mad dog.
 I find myself balancing between saying amen to everything he says and 
 going after him like a mad dog.  Perhaps I over did it this time...oh
 well.
 
 always have a real angle...
 
 collaboration and integration rulez:
 
 http://www.krysalis.org/alt/cents/index.html
 
 ^
 created by the maven module (aka cent) for centipede.
 you gotta love that.  
 
 I'll be joining the maven list for a short while to get a few bugs 
 in maven fixed (absolute links being interpreted as relative).
 
 isn't that delicious?
 
 -Andy 
 
 PS Centipede docs are well on there way to being up to snuff.
 
 On Sat, 2002-05-04 at 13:08, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
  It is as stupid to go after Jon like a mad dog as it is stupid to
  say Amen to everything he says and the way he says it.
  
  There must be a balance somewhere.
  
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 5:08 PM
   
   
   On 5/4/02 10:45 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
I propose this alternative:

http://www.krysalis.org/jon/

;-)

   
   Yep - that is the one I was going to find.  I think it's right up 
   there with
   the other one to help people come to terms with Jon...
   
   ...
  
  
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RE: Maven is growing

2002-05-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 And there is.  Find it.
 
 geir

Maybe I did. But it is NOT your balance - it is mine.

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 7:28 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Maven is growing
 
 
 On 5/4/02 1:08 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  It is as stupid to go after Jon like a mad dog as it is stupid to
  say Amen to everything he says and the way he says it.
  
  There must be a balance somewhere.
 
 And there is.  Find it.
 
 geir
 
  
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
  
  -Original Message-
  From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 5:08 PM
  
  
  On 5/4/02 10:45 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I propose this alternative:
  
  http://www.krysalis.org/jon/
  
  ;-)
  
  
  Yep - that is the one I was going to find.  I think it's right up
  there with
  the other one to help people come to terms with Jon...
...

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RE: Maven is growing

2002-05-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ok. I am glad you understood it,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 8:40 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Maven is growing
 
 
 On 5/4/02 2:03 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  And there is.  Find it.
  
  geir
  
  Maybe I did. But it is NOT your balance - it is mine.
 
 We each do things our own way.  Maybe we can put this thread to bed?
 
 geir
 
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo
  
  -Original Message-
  From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 7:28 PM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: Re: Maven is growing
  
  
  On 5/4/02 1:08 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  It is as stupid to go after Jon like a mad dog as it is stupid to
  say Amen to everything he says and the way he says it.
  
  There must be a balance somewhere.
  
  And there is.  Find it.
  
  geir
  
  
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
  
  -Original Message-
  From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 5:08 PM
  
  
  On 5/4/02 10:45 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I propose this alternative:
  
  http://www.krysalis.org/jon/
  
  ;-)
  
  
  Yep - that is the one I was going to find.  I think it's right up
  there with
  the other one to help people come to terms with Jon...
  ...
  
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  To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 -- 
 Geir Magnusson Jr.
 Research  Development, Adeptra Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 +1-203-247-1713
 
 
 
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RE: You guys are so funny.

2002-05-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Hey, Paulo! Let's meet! We can become friends and switch xsl:templates!

Sorry Steven, I know well both XSLT and Velocity and Velocity
sure is more productive.

Of course that from the way Jon talks about me you can tell that
I do not always agree with him - Jon seems to only be friendly 
to those that agree with him.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Steven Noels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:34 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: You guys are so funny. 
 
 
 Jon wrote:
 
  People
  --
  
  Needless to say, the attitudes here are becoming more and 
  more familiar.
  Andrew reminds me of the early days of dealing with Peter 
  Donald (credit to
  Peter for eventually coming to his senses...I think joining 
  the PMC helped).
  Steven reminds me of Paulo. Deja vu!
  
  :-)
 
 Cool. I like being funny :-)
 
 Hey, Paulo! Let's meet! We can become friends and switch xsl:templates!
 
 /Steven
 
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RE: You guys are so funny.

2002-05-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if 
 'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to 
 get people to work togheter -  and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
 the standards.

Costin,


Being you quite a brilliant guy, I don't understand two troubles
you seem to have:

 1) Getting too upset about what Jon says (Jon says a lot of crap);

 2) Blindly accepting a standard just because someone says it is
a standard.


A standard only stands if you accept it. Example: almost no one
really knows anymore what the Standard Pascal programming 
language was. Most people that know Pascal, know Turbo-Pascal or
(now) Delphi.

In the last 10 years, most commercial Pascal compilers claimed 
to be Turbo Pascal compatible and not ISO or ANSI or whatever is
the Pascal standard's name.

These are the standards that matter: those chosen by their 
users an not by some committee.


XSLT as a template mechanism is a piece of crap. I tried several
alternatives and I got better productivity with a much smoother 
learning curve with almost all of them.

The point is that someone should not have to be a rocket 
scientist just to build a damn template. Since designers...
 - Generally (all I know) hate XSLT and love Velocity;
 - Are completely dependent on me with XSLT but are almost 
   completely independent maintaining Velocity templates;
 - Are much better designing web pages than me...

... and since Velocity can do all that is needed with a fraction
of the trouble one gets from XSLT, there must be something wrong
with this XSLT standard.


Maybe XSLT is good for something else. Not HTML templates.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:27 PM
 To: Jon Scott Stevens
 
 ...
 
 I do that because I believe standards are essential - even if 
 'simpler' pet-solutions exist. Standards are the only way to 
 get people to work togheter -  and DocBook, HTML, XSLT are
 the standards.
 
 ...
 
 Costin


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RE: You guys are so funny.

2002-05-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 I got proven wrong from the 
 point of view
 that enough people wanted T3 to survive. I got proven right that T3
 distracted a limited set of resources (ie: people) from T4.

Uau! You already got HALF way.

You just still don't understand that T4 probably has more resources
thanks to T3 staying at Jakarta - with the collaboration that is 
going on. If T3 had been banned from Jakarta, maybe most of those
that are collaborating would have gone elsewhere with T3.


Have fun,
Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:21 PM
 
 on 5/2/02 12:23 PM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Costin, just like with Tomcat 3 vs. Tomcat 4. We all learned
  that you can't
  force projects to work together. Nor can you vote -1 on it. Given our
  history, I'm really surprised to hear you trying to argue for
  something like
  that. You hypocrite.
  
  Again and again, the same bullshits.
  
  Jon, take a closer look into tomcat-dev and you'll see that
  projects could works together, using others ways in JTC,
  coyote, jk/jk2, are the proof that tomcat developpers from
  4.x and 3.3.x could works together...
 
 Sure, the developers are working together on *some* stuff, but the core
 products they are not and my original Tomcat arguments were that 
 it was lame
 to have two different containers. I got proven wrong from the 
 point of view
 that enough people wanted T3 to survive. I got proven right that T3
 distracted a limited set of resources (ie: people) from T4.
 
 Centipede is to Tomcat 3 as Maven is to Tomcat 4.
 
 You can't force the developers of T3 to work on T4.
 
 -jon


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RE: You guys are so funny.

2002-05-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 People who are clearly without a clue.
 Hypocrites.

But then it seems that any one that disagrees with you gets included
in one (or both) of the above categories.

And you often don't recognize these ones even if they bite you:
 Real suggestions for improvement.
 Intelligent discussion.

Several did already bite during this thread. Did you notice them?


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 2:27 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.


 on 5/2/02 4:57 PM, Craig R. McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  As I tried to point out in my parenthetical remark -- it wasn't
 the Maven
  committers who started this whole thing ... it was our favorite
 iconoclast
  himself (Jon), who seems to believe that anything that makes him happy
  should make everybody happy, and anyone with contrary opinions
 is just not
  with it enough to be worthy of being listened to.
 
  Craig

 I listen to the following:

 Code.
 Patches.
 Real suggestions for improvement.
 Intelligent discussion.

 I don't listen to the following:

 Flame wars about technologies used.
 Whiny people who can't learn a new technology.
 Whiny people who only use 'standards'.
 People who are clearly without a clue.
 Hypocrites.

 My original posting was simply trying to encourage people to adopt Maven
 because I think it is a cool technology that can save hundreds of hours of
 development time and headaches. It can help unify us to survive the
 perceived M$ .Net invasion. It can help us gain more popularity among our
 users because our tools are easy to build and install.

 -jon


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So, Google uses Tomcat and Apache SOAP...

2002-04-20 Thread Paulo Gaspar

http://www.beblogging.com/blog/20020417-221452

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

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RE: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem - after all there really is a problem

2002-04-18 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ok, I was convinced by Pier too soon.

There really is a problem since the 553 error comes from 
the Apache server. Our (KRANKIKOM) server just reported
that error back to me.

So, some SPAM filter does not let me answer too many 
webmaster emails in a short time.
=:o/


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:40 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem
 
 
 LOL!
 (Yeah, laughing about silly me!)
 
 Thanks Pier,
 Paulo
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:15 PM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: Re: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem
  
  
  Not something we can take care of It's krankikom.de's problem... :)
  (look the From header below! :)
  
  
  Pier
  
  Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   My mails (as webmaster) were filtered as spam.
   
   Something must be missing at that spam filter.
   This way it is hard to play webmaster.
   
   Error email follows
   
   Have fun,
   Paulo Gaspar
   
   -Original Message-
   From: Mail Delivery Subsystem [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:05 PM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
   
   
   The original message was received at Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:04:35 +0200
   from firewalled-137.krankikom.de [194.77.169.137] (may be forged)
   
  - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  - Transcript of session follows -
   ... while talking to jakarta.apache.org.:
   DATA
553 Spam or junk mail threshold exceeded.  See
   http://www.flame.org/qmail/spamjunk.html (#5.7.1)
   554 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... Service unavailable
   
   --
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RE: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem - after all therereally is a problem

2002-04-18 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ok, I leave it in your capable hands!

Thanks,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:59 PM
 To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem - after all
 therereally is a problem


 It is actually a problem on Daedalus, then... Moving discussion to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] :)

 Pier

 Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ok, I was convinced by Pier too soon.
 
  There really is a problem since the 553 error comes from
  the Apache server. Our (KRANKIKOM) server just reported
  that error back to me.
 
  So, some SPAM filter does not let me answer too many
  webmaster emails in a short time.
  =:o/
 
 
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:40 PM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: RE: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem
 
 
  LOL!
  (Yeah, laughing about silly me!)
 
  Thanks Pier,
  Paulo
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:15 PM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: Re: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem
 
 
  Not something we can take care of It's krankikom.de's
 problem... :)
  (look the From header below! :)
 
 
  Pier
 
  Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  My mails (as webmaster) were filtered as spam.
 
  Something must be missing at that spam filter.
  This way it is hard to play webmaster.
 
  Error email follows
 
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mail Delivery Subsystem [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:05 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
 
 
  The original message was received at Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:04:35 +0200
  from firewalled-137.krankikom.de [194.77.169.137] (may be forged)
 
 - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 - Transcript of session follows -
  ... while talking to jakarta.apache.org.:
  DATA
   553 Spam or junk mail threshold exceeded.  See
  http://www.flame.org/qmail/spamjunk.html (#5.7.1)
  554 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... Service unavailable
 
  --
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RE: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem

2002-04-17 Thread Paulo Gaspar

LOL!
(Yeah, laughing about silly me!)

Thanks Pier,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:15 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: [HELP!!!] - Webmaster spam filter problem
 
 
 Not something we can take care of It's krankikom.de's problem... :)
 (look the From header below! :)
 
 
 Pier
 
 Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  My mails (as webmaster) were filtered as spam.
  
  Something must be missing at that spam filter.
  This way it is hard to play webmaster.
  
  Error email follows
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
  
  -Original Message-
  From: Mail Delivery Subsystem [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:05 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
  
  
  The original message was received at Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:04:35 +0200
  from firewalled-137.krankikom.de [194.77.169.137] (may be forged)
  
 - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 - Transcript of session follows -
  ... while talking to jakarta.apache.org.:
  DATA
   553 Spam or junk mail threshold exceeded.  See
  http://www.flame.org/qmail/spamjunk.html (#5.7.1)
  554 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... Service unavailable
  
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FW: Typo in webpage title

2002-04-16 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Could someone fix this little thing?

The typo is still there. He is talking about the
title tag value.


Have fun,
Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Ernst de Haan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:23 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Typo in webpage title
 
 
 Hi,
 
 There's a small typo in the title of 
 http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/news.html
 
 The page is titled: The Jakarta Site - New and Status
^ 's' missing :)
 
 
 Regards,
 
 Ernst
 

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RE: Ant won JavaWorld Editor's Award

2002-04-14 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/

Yeah! Maven looks too cool!
=:oD

Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:21 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Ant won JavaWorld Editor's Award
 
 
 on 4/12/02 8:58 PM, Jim Azeltine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I just got done using Ant to create the coolest thing I have 
 ever seen. It is
  going to allow developers (who don't know that much about 
 Java), who are using
  tools to autogenerate Java code to compile the code and add it 
 to a common
  jar,
  ftp the jar (including backing up), set the file permissions, 
 and notifying
  all
  of the developer group via email all with one command. Too cool!
  
  James Azeltine
  Indus International
 
 
 http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/
 
 -jon
 
 
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RE: [VOTE] Switching development to C#

2002-04-01 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Do you have anything against Fortran or Cobol?

There will be .Net implementations for those, you know? And we could
leverage the power of all those legacy academic and enterprise 
programmers.

(I bet there are a lot of Cobol guys getting a lot of free time on
their hands after the Y2K mess.)


Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:10 PM
 To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [VOTE] Switching development to C#
 
 
 On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Marc wrote:
 
  Having become convinced by Andy that C# and .NET are the wave of the 
  future, I'm proposing that we switch poi development to C#.
  
  To the Jakarta community at large: will this affect our status as a 
  Jakarta project? I mean, I can see where a lot of projects are 
  eventually going to follow this same path ...
 
 I'm ok with using .NET, but I think you should use BASIC as language, 
 not C#. .NET is language independent, and other jakarta projects 
 already switched to BASIC. 
 
 Costin
 
 
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RE: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Now your motivation is becoming clear.

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Ceki Gulcu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:18 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Comments on the commons-logging API
 
 
 At 15:10 28.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
 Where is this world where everyone uses Log4J?
 
 That world = (world - jakarta)
 
 
 --
 Ceki
 My link of the month: http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/standardization/
 
 
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RE: Comments on the commons-logging API

2002-03-28 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ceki,


What about making clear that commons-logging is only supposed to be
used by other components so that the application developer picks 
the logging API that suits him best?

Do you really believe that all application developers will use 
Log4J? Or do you want to force them into doing that?

Do you have any doubt that lots of companies will follow the policy 
of using the JDK 1.4 Logging API just because it is the one that 
comes with Java? 

Do you really think that the persons imposing such decision will 
care about what is good and what is bad?

And then the ones getting the mess will be the developers and the
commons-logging will help those. And will also help them to use
the components/libs that use it.


This sounds like just another of your pro-log4j-anti-anything-else 
campaigns, containing the usual amount of FUD of any blind campaign.


A blind campaign is one where the single motivation of the 
campaigner is defending some interest/belief against all others... 
without really trying to SEE or get precise information on what 
those others really are.

The blindness towards the other alternatives tends to grow a 
considerable amount of misinformation on the blind campaigner and,
then, he vigorously spreads it - hence the resulting spread of FUD.


You seem to be following a pattern here, since you are doing just 
the same as you usually do against LogKit, including the 
misinformation bit.

Although both you and Peter turn a bit silly when under the 
influence of another-logger-war, I always notice that you know much
less about LogKit than Peter knows about log4j. (And yes, I know 
both well enough to clearly notice that).

It is sad that you show to be more interested on destroying the 
competition than on learning from it. Well, at least you did not
accuse the commons-logging guys from plagiarism just yet, as you 
did about the LogKit guys.


Ceki, I know you are quite smart, constructive and helpful and I 
respect you for that. But when you get in these logging wars, you
don't seem to be the same person.

You could at least try to be well informed and inform well when you
talk about other logging APIs.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar



 -Original Message-
 From: Ceki Gulcu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:14 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Comments on the commons-logging API
 
 
 At 15:30 28.03.2002 -0600, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
 
 I am pro-Log4J.  I wish I lived in that Log4J-only world (until/unless
 something better came along).  Generally, commons-logging 
 neither encourages
 nor discourages use of Log4J.  However, I would argue that it _does_
 encourage Log4J a bit by not forcing a logging implementation war.
 
 True. It does encourage it, but only initially. On the long run,
 however, people will run into problems with their logging (as is
 happening now). They will say this commons-logging+log4j stuff is too
 complicated, we'll switch to JDK 1.4 logging, at least that does not
 have any CLASSPATH problems.
 
 The fact is, JDK 1.4 logging in particular is going to become 
 more and more
 common over time, and unless someone can summon forth a magic 
 recantation of
 that JSR, then a component-level interface with popular loggers is
 necessary.  Otherwise you have to pick, which only services us at the
 expense of those who use other logger implementations.
 
 Possible but I would not be that sure.  We will have very strong new
 features in log4j 1.3 (the release after 1.2) which will leave JDK 1.4
 logging even further behind.  Just as importantly, log4j documentation
 is going to get a massive boost with the upcoming log4j book.
 
 Sun's me-too strategy is bound to fail. The question is whether the
 bigger jakarta community is going to help us defeat JSR47 or stand in
 the way.
 
 --
 Ceki
 My link of the month: http://java.sun.com/aboutJava/standardization/
 
 

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RE: news@jakarta

2002-03-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...

I sure like this one!
=:o)

Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Danny Angus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:28 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: news@jakarta
 
 
 Or.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. leave those notes you're 
 not sure if
 anyone reads or not.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 9:53 PM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: Re: news@jakarta
 
 
  On 3/7/02 4:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
   Or call it usefull-tidbits or something :-), gossip@, watercooler@,
   the-bar@, coffeshop@, wathever ;-) Something clearly meant for
   out of scope things.
  
 
  How about 'ot@'
 
  --
  Geir Magnusson Jr. 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  System and Software Consulting
  He who throws mud only loses ground. - Fat Albert
 
 
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RE: Jakarta PMC 2002: Results of the Ballot.

2002-02-26 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Indeed, a very nice group.
=:o)

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Morgan Delagrange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:29 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC 2002: Results of the Ballot.


 Congratulations to the new PMC members!  We couldn't ask for a more
 qualified group.  :)

 - Morgan


 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 12:02 PM
 Subject: Jakarta PMC 2002: Results of the Ballot.


  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 
 
  Thanks for voting.
 
  We received 75 valid ballot forms (from 219 committers). There where 462
  votes casted on nominees and 63 abstaining votes (i.e. with a total of
  7x75=525 votes).
 
  None of the received ballot forms where rejected. No issues where found
  during the verification of the email sender/messages.
 
  The 7 people with the largest number of votes (in alphabetical order):
 
Stefan Bodewig
Craig McClanahan
Diane Holt
Conor MacNeill
Geir Magnusson Jr.
Costin Monolache
Sam Ruby
 
  The above people thus compose the Jakarta PMC effective immediately
  and will be confirmed as the Jakarta PMC for 2002 at the next ASF
  board meeting.
 
  Should you have issue with those elections or its procedure then please
  contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Your vote counters: Ben, Jim and Dirk-Willem.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Dw.
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
  Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76
  Charset: noconv
 
  iQCVAwUBPHp8QjGmPZbsFAuBAQHXnAP+Jlfa5oCvFumrlYC07P27FZUL7SkJzML6
  OlvkCShXJBnsvN5glDkKhzPPLVDZMSuPEXRusT7B08hxoqyzLWhe9AXV2QPx3gUI
  nju20ZfQhn8a9OiLKbUEa8i4kP7bd8jXmRHmyTyYrC22ZE7ejvyQni4uvm98S5W1
  e1m8VWWhOds=
  =f3Ef
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
 
 
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RE: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge)

2002-02-22 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Actually, there is searching. See the Search Apache Sites link at:
  http://jakarta.apache.org/

Maybe we need a nice textbox for searching at every page!
(Hey, don't look at mee!)


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: James Strachan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:35 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge)


 I think one thing this conversation seems to have highlighted is that
 there's plenty of good documentation all over the apache sites, we could
 just do with some more sitemap / indexing / searching features to
 be able to
 find stuff.

 (quickly ducking before people think I'm volunteering).

 James
 - Original Message -
 From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Jakarta General List' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:31 PM
 Subject: RE: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge)


 Ok, thanks a lot, Marc and Jon.

 Included are some links from xml.apache.org, luckily they
 resemble Jakarta's
 documents a lot. I know nothing about other Apache projects; I started
 adding links from httpd.apache.org like crazy, but then realized that the
 TOC was losing focus exponentially. Probably, someone else should tackle
 this problem.

 Now, including the valuable contributions of Marc and Jon, the annotated
 Apache manual TOC would look like this.

 1.- Introduction
   Who we are, why are we doing this.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html
   http://xml.apache.org/whoweare.html
   http://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html

 2.- Project proposal
   Proposal stage, committers needed, community.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/getinvolved.html
   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html

 3.- Apache rules
   Who gets to vote what.
   Voting rules, valid votes, +1/+0/0/-0/-1.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/roles.html
   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/decisions.html
   http://xml.apache.org/roles.html
   http://xml.apache.org/decisions.html
   http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-admin/charter.txt

 4.- Code organization and repositories
   Naming of packages, repositories, what to find in them.
   Who touches what.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/dirlayout.html
   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html
   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/agreement.html

 5.- Code quality
   Add copyright notice, add authors.
   Format your code but not others'.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/agreement.html
   http://xml.apache.org/source.html

 6.- Testing
   Adding test cases.
   Solving bugs, errors, showstoppers.
   Security problems.

   http://httpd.apache.org/security_report.html

 7.- Build system
   Use Ant, use Ant, use Ant.
   Use Gump.
   Use Scarab.

   Not done yet.

 8.- Dependencies
   What jar's to use and what to avoid.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jars.html

 9.- Documentation
   Where to look for it.
   What to expect, what not to expect.

   Not done yet.

 10.- Releases
   When to release, what to release.
   Release process.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.html

 11.- Support
   Whom you should ask, what you should figure out yourself.

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
   http://xml.apache.org/mail.html

 12.- Licensing and guarantee
   Why you should use Apache license, and what's wrong with other licenses.
   What you can do with Apache products. Giving credit.
   All that implied warranty things.

   http://www.apache.org/foundation/licence-FAQ.html
   http://xml.apache.org/dist/LICENSE.txt

  -Mensaje original-
  De: Marc Saegesser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Enviado el: miércoles 20 de febrero de 2002 20:19
  Para: Jakarta General List
  Asunto: RE: Apache Manual (was ApacheForge)
 
 
  Alex,
 
  That's a really good start.  My only comment right now is to
  point out that
  some of the topics in this list are Jakarta specific and
  Apache is much
  bigger than Jakarta.  It would be cool if a manual such as
  this covered how
  other Apache projects handle similar tasks.
 
  I'd also include a chapter on Apache and Jakarta rules.  For
  example, voting
  rules, what constitutes a valid vote, what are the voting
  types and when
  they apply, what are meanings of +1/+0/0/-0/-1 in the various
  voting types.
 
  A collection of release instructions for various projects
  might also be
  useful.  When I was the release manager for Tomcat 3.2.x I
  got some initial
  help from Craig, but after that I had to invent most of the
  process myself
  (and I'll be the first admit that I didn't document that
  process :-( ).
 
  I'm sure I think of more after giving it some more thought.
  Good start,
  though.
 
  Marc Saegesser
 



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FW: grammer issue

2002-02-20 Thread Paulo Gaspar



 -Original Message-
 From: Dave Palmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:09 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: grammer issue
 
 
 Hello,
 Just thought I'd drop you a quick line to let you know that there is a
 slight grammer issue on the home page of the jakarta site:
 
 Please considerate and do your homework before asking our volunteers to
 donate additional time and energy to your project.
 
 I think you mean:
 
 Please be considerate...
 
 :)
 
 Keep up the excellent work!
 
 ./dave
 


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RE: distribute minimal jar

2002-02-13 Thread Paulo Gaspar

The common logging wrapper also looks familiar...
...from Velocity???

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Ylan Segal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:10 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: distribute minimal jar
 
 
 
  I have started a project (http://apricot.sourceforge.net) and use
  several jakarta projects (LogKit, Log4J, oro, velocity, xerces...).
 I took a look at your project. It looks just like jakarta's site. 
 Why? Is it
 in anyway related?
 
 Ylan Segal
 
 
 
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RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar

2002-02-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ok, now that I understand better how a PMC nomination works,
it looks like I have to say something about me besides just
saying that I accept - which I do.

I work on software development for almost 15 years and I 
only started using Apache software less than 2 years ago. I
got addicted very fast.

As many of you probably noticed, I do not believe on quietly
accepting the facts. I also believe on defending my 
interests without hurting others and I often spend too much
effort defending what I consider fair.

And I do it for selfish reasons - I am depending on loads of
Jakarta software and I do not believe the Jakarta Project 
will survive unless we all win something.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

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RE: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

2002-02-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Yeahh!
Costin tends to be too quiet sometimes. I hope he is reversing that 
trend because I learn something most of the times he talks.

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Remy Maucherat [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 6:07 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
 
 
  After some thinking, I'm going to accept the nomination, even
  if I don't quite believe jakarta needs 'management', 'committee' or
  any other function besides 'jakarta commiter'.
 
 Lol. Sellout !
 You're joining the establishment now !
 ;-)
 
 I think I'll vote for you :)
 
 Remy
 
 
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RE: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache

2002-02-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

I second that nomination.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of jean-frederic clere
 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 6:59 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: PMC Nomination - Costin Manolache
 
 
 I would like to nominate Costin Manolache for election to the PMC.
 
 Costin has a wide area knowledge of ASF projects (Apr, httpd 1.3/2.0,
 tomcat3.x/4.0, Ant...).
 He has been contributing to Tomcat since the very first versions.
 
 He has the patience of a good teacher and the spirit of a real hacker.
 I know that he promotes OSS and OSS spirit from the 
 jakarta-tomcat-* projects.
 
 Cheers
 
 Jean-frederic
 
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To jvote or not to jvote

2002-02-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

From the PMC nomination postings, some are going to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and some not.

Why?
What are the rules?

If they all should, then a lot are missing!


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

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RE: To jvote or not to jvote

2002-02-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Thanks Dirk.


But then, from what I can see in the general list, only 
Geir has both the nomination and the 2 necessary additional
+1s all sent to jvote.

How should this be fixed?


This is what I see in general:
(I am skipping those that refused the nomination.)

 - Ted Husted
 The 3rd +1 did not get to jvote.

 - Stefan Bodewig
 - Conor MacNeill
 Nothing went to jvote.
 (I think that both are still missing votes.)

 - Scott Sanders
 Only the nomination went to jvote.

 - Sam Ruby
 Nothing went to jvote.

 - Peter Donald
 Nothing went to jvote.

 - Paulo Gaspar
 Nothing went to jvote.

 - Morgan Delagranje
 Only his acceptance went to jvote.

 - Geir Magnusson
 Enough votes went to jvote.

 - Diane Holt
 Only the nomination went to jvote.

 - Craig McClanahan
 Only the nomination and one vote went to jvote.

 - Costin Manolache
 Only the nomination and one vote went to jvote.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 8:36 PM
 To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: To jvote or not to jvote
 
 
 
 
 On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
 
  From the PMC nomination postings, some are going to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and some not.
 
  Why? What are the rules?
 
 See below. We'll debug the message for the next election to make sure it
 is clearer.
 
 What we will be checking on the 7th is what we have received on the
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list - and in particular those messages
 from the nominee himself or herself that he or she is willing to
 be run in the election.
 
 Dw.
 
 
 T+7 Nominations for PMC needs to be in by 0:00 GMT 7th of
 February 2001. You can either nominate yourself - or
 nominate someone else. What counts is the confirmation
 from the nominee being received.
 
 -  Posting a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with your candidature, a short
 description about who you are, what you want to
 accomplish.
 
 -  Or if you are volunteered by someone else - a similar
 message confirming that you are accepting the
 nomination - with again - some details about yourself.
 
 -  PMC seats are open to anyone. Regardless as to
 wether you are a committer, lurker or coder. And
 you can even nominate a complete outsider (assuming
 he or she would consent of course.)
 
 -  The board volunteers handling the vote cannot
 be nominated.
 
 -  The nomination must include the email address of
 the nominee. And it really should be a valid one :-)
 
 
 
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RE: To jvote or not to jvote

2002-02-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Thanks Dirk.


But then, from what I can see in the general list, only 
Geir has both the nomination and the 2 necessary additional
+1s all sent to jvote.

How should this be fixed?


This is what I see in general:
(I am skipping those that refused the nomination.)

 - Ted Husted
 The 3rd +1 did not get to jvote.

 - Stefan Bodewig
 - Conor MacNeill
 Nothing went to jvote.
 (I think that both are still missing votes.)

 - Scott Sanders
 Only the nomination went to jvote.

 - Sam Ruby
 Nothing went to jvote.

 - Peter Donald
 Nothing went to jvote.

 - Paulo Gaspar
 Nothing went to jvote.

 - Morgan Delagranje
 Only his acceptance went to jvote.

 - Geir Magnusson
 Enough votes went to jvote.

 - Diane Holt
 Only the nomination went to jvote.

 - Craig McClanahan
 Only the nomination and one vote went to jvote.

 - Costin Manolache
 Only the nomination and one vote went to jvote.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 8:36 PM
 To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: To jvote or not to jvote
 
 
 
 
 On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
 
  From the PMC nomination postings, some are going to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and some not.
 
  Why? What are the rules?
 
 See below. We'll debug the message for the next election to make sure it
 is clearer.
 
 What we will be checking on the 7th is what we have received on the
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list - and in particular those messages
 from the nominee himself or herself that he or she is willing to
 be run in the election.
 
 Dw.
 
 
 T+7 Nominations for PMC needs to be in by 0:00 GMT 7th of
 February 2001. You can either nominate yourself - or
 nominate someone else. What counts is the confirmation
 from the nominee being received.
 
 -  Posting a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with your candidature, a short
 description about who you are, what you want to
 accomplish.
 
 -  Or if you are volunteered by someone else - a similar
 message confirming that you are accepting the
 nomination - with again - some details about yourself.
 
 -  PMC seats are open to anyone. Regardless as to
 wether you are a committer, lurker or coder. And
 you can even nominate a complete outsider (assuming
 he or she would consent of course.)
 
 -  The board volunteers handling the vote cannot
 be nominated.
 
 -  The nomination must include the email address of
 the nominee. And it really should be a valid one :-)
 
 
 
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RE: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

2002-02-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Cool!

That was what I understood but the tone of some remarks left me wondering.

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:42 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection


 Just to be clear, I'm not leaving Jakarta entirely, you will still have to
 put up with my bullshit every now and then...I'm just not going to
 participate in the PMC politics any longer...

 -jon


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RE: J2EE considered harmful

2002-02-01 Thread Paulo Gaspar

This is getting interesting and we have e lot of pieces for this kind
of puzzle around Apache.

Why must standards be ruled just by the BigCo's???

De facto standards happen when a product is really good.

This reminds me how the then tiny dog Borland turned Turbo Pascal 
into the de facto standard Pascal language in a couple of years. All 
Pascal language related products wanted to be compatible with it and 
not with whatever was the standard Pascal. All the big dogs had to 
run away.



Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jeff Schnitzer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:54 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful
 
 
  From: Micael Padraig Og mac Grene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  
  Are you just talking about creating a new language, or what?  What is
 your
  idea?  I cannot tell.
 
 That's a good question, and ultimately one which would be determined by
 the constraints of the technology.  Prototyping would probably involve
 using an existing language and platform, and maybe we would ultimately
 discover that it is possible to build a system like this on top of a JVM
 (or CLR).  My suspicion is that it is not, and may be undesirable for
 legal reasons anyways.
 
 The later part of my diatribe was a hastily phrased way of approaching
 this subject:
 
 Unless you want to go back to the dark ages of C++, the future is
 shaping up to look like a choice between writing for the Sun platform or
 the Microsoft platform.  This does not make me comfortable, especially
 considering that Sun's approach to Java so far has been *wholly*
 anathema to the principals of Open Source.  At least Microsoft has
 submitted C# and the CLI to ECMA.  Quoth Jon: *WAKE UP PEOPLE*
 
 I am tantalized by the idea of a third choice:  the Apache platform.  I
 propose a discussion of just what that might be.
 
 Jeff Schnitzer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful

2002-02-01 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Paul already talked about a couple ways of tuning the use of remote
calls without having to do it on a case by case basis.

However, the thumb rule is that:
 - Either you build the system to be scalable (which might make it
   a bit less efficient when having it working in a single machine
   when compared to a non scalable system);

 - Or you use some transparency mechanism and you tend to loose
   robustness/control when compared to a system that is aware of
   possible communications issues and tries to handle them.

Some communications issues can be recovered from and some not. And
sometimes the decision to try to recover or not depends on the
kind of operation you are performing.

And I also agree with Paul that the RemoteException is NOT a bit
help.

Do you believe on magic bullets that work everywhere?
We keep trying to get as close to having them as possible but...


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:19 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful


 So what if you need to move an object that is defined as local to be
 load balanced across machines?  I think you're wrong on that one.  If
 you have to define it as local you loose scalability by definition
 unless you accept the hardware vendor's edition of scalability (buy an
 E1 instead and junk your old machine ;-) ).

 On Fri, 2002-02-01 at 08:06, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
  I do not think so. Handling in a proper way situations that are
  specific to a remote call does not mean that the architecture of
  the app must be less scalable.
 
 
  Have fun,
  Paulo
 
   -Original Message-
   From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:03 AM
   To: Jakarta General List
   Subject: RE: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful
  
  
   Albeit at the expense of scalability
  
   On Thu, 2002-01-31 at 09:51, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
I think that the key bit is:
  and it is a mistake to try to program
  as though a
  remote call had the same characteristics as a local one.
   
Your app will always be more robust if you do NOT ignore the
specific issues of a remote call.
   
   
Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar
   
 -Original Message-
 From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:50 PM
 To: 'Jakarta General List'
 Subject: [OT] RE: J2EE considered harmful


 Hi Tim.

 I agree with your point of view, we've been trying to avoid EJBs
 as much as
 possible. But there's one thing I don't understand.

  -Mensaje original-
  De: Tim Hyde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Yes, EJB is a complete bodge of a design, and RPC invocation
  techniques
  would only be acceptable if they were completely transparent,
  instead of
  requiring you to do so much plumbing yourself. But
  personally, I think RPC
  is entirely overrated, and it is a mistake to try to program
  as though a
  remote call had the same characteristics as a local one.

 Why is it a mistake? I think a remote proxy is a great way to
   make remote
 calls, shielding the developer from the complexity of it all.
   The recent
 discussion about AltRMI has shown that there's a lot of
   interest in using
 proxies, but it was Sun's implementation (the Remote*
 stuff) that was
 flawed.

 Un saludo,

 Alex.

   
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RE: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection

2002-02-01 Thread Paulo Gaspar

At least it seems that your are in for serious fun!
Hard to imagine a better reason to quit the PMC.

I hope you enjoy it and thanks for making things happen.


All the best,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 9:19 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Jakarta PMC Nomination - Rejection


 Hey all,

 I just wanted to say that I'm not going to accept my Jakarta PMC
 nomination
 and do not want to be included in the voting for the next election.

 I have been involved with Java Apache/Jakarta since Sept 1996 and I think
 that it is time for me to move on from being politically responsible for
 this group. Honestly, I'm jaded and burned out on it all.

 That said, I recently signed a 10 year lease on a prime event space in
 downtown San Francisco and I am moving towards spending more time being a
 big time night club owner than working on Jakarta. More info:
 http://www.studioz.tv/ (p.s. that site is built with Anakia smile)

 I also just released Scarab 1.0b1 and am focused primarily on
 making Scarab
 the best issue tracking tool around. Expect to see more great developments
 on this project. It is by far, one of the best designed, largest and most
 complex pieces of software that I have ever had the pleasure of helping
 develop. It will be around for a very long time and will eventually put
 Bugzilla out of business. More info: http://scarab.tigris.org/

 thanks,

 -jon


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AltRMI chat (was: [OT] J2EE considered harmful)

2002-02-01 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Moving this to the Commons. Please reply only in the commons-dev list.

Sorry Paul, I meant AspectJ.

I do not understand the incompatibility between Dynamic proxies and
BeanShell. What is it.

Did you try pnuts? I already found a documented way to run a pnuts
compiled class, although it demands the presence of some Runtime 
support classes.

Anyway, with pnuts you can generate/compile code in memory.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Paul Hammant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:33 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: [OT] J2EE considered harmful
 
 
 Paulo,
 
 Paul just answered to what I meant in a better way than I would be able
 to do.
 
 BTW Paul, you know JAspect and Dynamic Proxies don't you?
 
 
 Yes, BUT : I am not skilled enough in Jaspect, AspectJ, BCEL, JCFE to 
 able able to use them for AltRMI's proxy generation.  I know *exactly* 
 what I need to do in Java so have ripped (with attribution) Jaspers 
 compiler invoker and placed it in the tree for AltRMI, then written Java 
 source to a temp dir.  This can be done in advance (like rmic) or at 
 runtime on the server for truly dynamic opration.
 
 Refelctions Dynamic proxys were not quite good enough for AltRMI either. 
 Reason - I love beanshell and use it to poke interfaces for testing.  An 
 example I always cite is for JAMES :
 
 bsh jamesAdmin = getAltRMIObject(james.host,8999,JamesAdmin);
 bsh fred = jamesAdmin.addUser(Fred Flintstone);
 bsh jamesAdmin.enableUser(fred);
 
 All that is possible (given the JAMES API) with beanshell / AltRMI now 
 without and James classes pre-existing in beanshell's classpath.  The 
 thing that makes it so much easier to use is that the arriving 
 jamesAdmin instance supports getMethods() in the nromal way which is 
 very beanshell friendly.
 
 - Paul
 
 
 
 
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FW: Error on site-internal link

2002-01-31 Thread Paulo Gaspar



 -Original Message-
 From: Rolf Heckemann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of Rolf Heckemann
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:09 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Error on site-internal link
 
 
 Hi
 
 The page
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/faqs.html
 
 contains the link
 http://nagoya.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayFaqs/
 action/SetAll/project_id/2
 
 which brings up a NoClassDefFoundError.
 
 I need the Faq-O-Matic - please help.
 
 Rolf
 
 
 -- 
 Rolf Heckemann (Dr. med.) Research Fellow
 Department of Imaging Hammersmith Hospital, London
 

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Another complain... FW: Jakarta FAQ-o-matic broken

2002-01-31 Thread Paulo Gaspar


-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:42 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Jakarta FAQ-o-matic broken


I cannot get the Jakarta FAQ-o-matic to work correctly.
http://nagoya.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayFaqs/action/Set
All/project_id/2
displays the following error message:
Exception: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError at
org.apache.turbine.om.user.TurbineUser.setUserName(TurbineUser.java:648) at
org.apache.turbine.om.user.peer.UserFactory.getUser(UserFactory.java:158) at
org.apache.jyve.actions.sessionvalidator.DefaultSessionValidator.doPerform(D
efaultSessionValidator.java:101) at
org.apache.turbine.modules.Action.perform(Action.java:91) at
org.apache.turbine.modules.ActionLoader.exec(ActionLoader.java:119) at
org.apache.turbine.Turbine.doGet(Turbine.java:325) at
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:740) at
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853) at
org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(Application
FilterChain.java:247) at
org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterCh
ain.java:193) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.ja
va:243) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:5
66) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.ja
va:201) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:5
66) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.invoke(StandardContext.java:2344)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java:164
) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:5
66) at
org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorDispatcherValve.invoke(ErrorDispatcherValve.
java:170) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:5
64) at
org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java:170
) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:5
64) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java
:163) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:5
66) at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943) at
org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.process(HttpProcessor.java:
1011) at
org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.run(HttpProcessor.java:1106
) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484)
It would be good if this can be fixed relatively quickly (it's been like
this for a couple of days now) as it seems to present a very bad picture of
Jakarta Tomcat if the Jakarta team cannot get their own Java-enabled website
running correctly.
All the best,
--
Jonathan Miller

Cartesian Limited
Descartes House
8 Gate Street
London WC2A 3HP
web: www.cartesian.co.uk


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RE: J2EE considered harmful

2002-01-31 Thread Paulo Gaspar

*persistence transparency* = *waste of efficiency*

There are no good systems that solve that yet. It only works for very
simple schemas.

Besides,
 (1) Not using that kind of layer does NOT mean that you have to
 concatenate Strings;
 (2) The use of Javabeans is abused.

For (1) I use SQL generators for the most common operations and SQL
templates - defined in an XML file - for the others. Having SQL defined
outside the Java code often saves a lot of time and avoids the
concatenation mess.

For (2)... just go to the jakarta-commons mail archives and check the
discussions about the DynaBeans stuff.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar



 -Original Message-
 From: Andrus Adamchik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:43 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful

 ...

 Well, if EJB (or others) are doing it wrong, it doesn't mean that Object
 Relational approach is bad. I agree that objects mapped straight to the
 rows one to one are not of much use by themselves. But they provide
 something that you will need to build your less fine grained objects,
 namely *persistence transparency*. By the same token you can say that any
 objects that use Java Bean pattern are useless, since all they
 have is get
 and set methods.

 But well, some people may like to concatenate SQL strings every time they
 want to get some data written or read to/from the database. The keyword
 here is productivity.


 ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
 - Andrei (a.k.a. Andrus) Adamchik
 http://objectstyle.org
 list email: andrus-jk at objectstyle dot org
 personal email: andrus at objectstyle dot org



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RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar

2002-01-31 Thread Paulo Gaspar

I accept. I want to see the end of the movie.
=;o)

And I believe I will (would) survive if the lower probability
result happens. I am already too involved anyway.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:41 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar
 
 
 You mean that you accept?  (You need to accept or decline)
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:01 PM
  To: Jakarta General List
  Subject: RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar
  
  
  Now I am speechless!
  (Never happened before as you well know!)
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:56 PM
   To: Jakarta General List
   Subject: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar
  
  
   Paulo is an individual who uses a rather large portion of the code 
   that we have been producing.  He has experienced first hand 
  the pains 
   that are inflicted on the consumers of our software when 
  decisions are 
   made based on the rampant subproject rivalry that continues 
  to exist.  
   Throughout it all he has never been one to hold back his opinions.
  
   Whether or not Paulo is elected to the PMC this round or 
  not, it is my 
   sincere hope that Paulo make the choice to get more 
  directly involved 
   in the subprojects he cares about, and becomes a committer.
  
   - Sam Ruby


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RE: J2EE considered harmful

2002-01-31 Thread Paulo Gaspar

A bit more of OT inline:
=;o)

 -Original Message-
 From: Andrus Adamchik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:50 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: J2EE considered harmful


 At 09:11 PM 1/31/2002 +0100, Paulo Gaspar wrote:
   (1) Not using that kind of layer does NOT mean that you have to
   concatenate Strings;

 Yes, am pretty sure there are ways to make life easier with SQL,
 sorry for bad comparison.

No reason to be sorry. The traditional approach you pointed is a PITA.
I am just mentioning alternatives.


 See, despite all of the skepticism about O/R mechanisms, I
 believe in this
 approach for one reason - I used a good O/R tool for major
 development for
 about 4 years now. I am talking about WebObjects. I believe this was the
 first application server out there (I think before even the term was
 coined). Now it lives in a relative obscurity since NeXT (the inventor of
 it) was bought by Apple, and Apple has no reputation for enterprise
 solutions.

I always read good thinking about WebObjects. I am really getting
curious about it.

 The bottom line here is that developer productivity goes up
 significantly.
 Code produced is incomparably easier to understand and maintain. And
 performance price is not that big (definitely not comparable to
 the impact EJB would make).

UAU! Good performance too?

I did read a lot about its productivity but nothing about
performance.


   (2) The use of Javabeans is abused.

 Totally agree. Still does not make this pattern bad. One use is a
 transport
 mechanism for data between the application parts. Clean and easy
 to understand.

Yes, but I think javabeans should be reserved for complex business
logic where it shines on the clean  easy aspects.

For data transport a lot can be automated in Java using approaches
like the Dynabeans. I mean, code like this:

bean1.field1 = someOtherSource.getObject(field1);
bean1.field2 = someOtherSource.getObject(field2);
...
bean1.field47 = someOtherSource.getObject(field47);

is really dumb and painful.

  Sorry for an OT post, this J2EE licensing discussion got a
 bit off hand.

A lot of interesting discussions go on OT all the time.
=;o)

 ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
 - Andrei (a.k.a. Andrus) Adamchik
 http://objectstyle.org
 list email: andrus-jk at objectstyle dot org
 personal email: andrus at objectstyle dot org

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


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RE: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml]

2002-01-30 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Sometimes I (argh!) love Jon!
=;o)

Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Sanders [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:07 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml]
 
 
 Why is that?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:10 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml]
  
  
  I'm not comfortable with carrying this type of editorial 
  matter at the top of the home page, and would like to move it 
  to the news and status page. 
  
  -Ted.
  
   Original Message 
  Subject: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml
  Date: 30 Jan 2002 21:53:04 -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reply-To: Jakarta WebSite CVS List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  jon 02/01/30 13:53:04
  
Modified:docs index.html
 xdocsindex.xml
Log:
lets have a little fun.

Revision  ChangesPath
1.52  +32 -0 jakarta-site2/docs/index.html

Index: index.html
===
RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/docs/index.html,v
retrieving revision 1.51
retrieving revision 1.52
diff -u -r1.51 -r1.52
--- index.html29 Jan 2002 01:47:06 -  1.51
+++ index.html30 Jan 2002 21:53:03 -  1.52
@@ -140,6 +140,38 @@

  table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 width=100%
   trtd bgcolor=#525D76
 font color=#ff face=arial,helvetica,sanserif
+  a name=That flaming fireball in the 
  sky...strongThat
  flaming fireball in the sky.../strong/a
+/font
+  /td/tr
+  trtd
+blockquote
+p
+In a recent a 
  href=http://www.theserverside.com/resources/article.jsp?l=Sun
  Interviewarticle/a,
  Karen Tegan, Director of J2EE Compatibility and Platform
+Services for Sun Microsystems, had the following to say:
+/p
+p
+The J2EE Compatible brand has achieved significant 
  momentum over the
+past two years, and we want to make sure that any open 
  source efforts
+don't impact the viability of that effort.
+/p
+p
+In other words, Sun doesn't give a hoot about whether J2EE 
  licensing
+restricts open source J2EE products (in case you missed 
  it, it does).
+Thus, the Apache Software Foundation's involvement in the 
  Java Community
+Process (JCP) is simply an advertising statement for Sun 
  to claim that
+they have a 'vision which uses open standards and non-proprietary
+interfaces'. If you would like to express your opinions of Sun's
+licensing terms, feel free to contact a 
  href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a and let us 
  know what you
+think. Thanks.
+/p
+/blockquote
+/p
+  /td/tr
+  trtdbr//td/tr
+/table
+table border=0
  cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 width=100%
+  trtd bgcolor=#525D76
+font color=#ff face=arial,helvetica,sanserif
   a name=WelcomestrongWelcome/strong/a
 /font
   /td/tr



1.21  +28 -0 jakarta-site2/xdocs/index.xml

Index: index.xml
===
RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/xdocs/index.xml,v
retrieving revision 1.20
retrieving revision 1.21
diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21
--- index.xml 20 Jan 2002 16:28:07 -  1.20
+++ index.xml 30 Jan 2002 21:53:03 -  1.21
@@ -9,6 +9,34 @@
 
 body
 
+section name=That flaming fireball in the sky...
+p
+In a recent a
   
  +href=http://www.theserverside.com/resources/article.jsp?l=Su
  nInterview
  +
+article/a, Karen Tegan, Director of J2EE Compatibility 
  and Platform
+Services for Sun Microsystems, had the following to say:
+/p
+
+p
+The J2EE Compatible brand has achieved significant 
  momentum over the
+past two years, and we want to make sure that any open 
  source efforts
+don't impact the viability of that effort.
+/p
+
+p
+In other words, Sun doesn't give a hoot about whether J2EE 
  licensing
+restricts open source J2EE products (in case you missed 
  it, it does).
+Thus, the Apache Software Foundation's involvement in the 
  Java Community
+Process (JCP) is simply an advertising statement for Sun 
  to claim that
+they have a 'vision which uses open standards and non-proprietary
+interfaces'. If you would like to express your 

FAQ-o-matic down at least since yesterday...

2002-01-29 Thread Paulo Gaspar

4 complains and counting!

Can someone take care of this?


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:33 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: FAQs web page


 It seems that the Jakarta FAQ-o-matic is having problems.  It
 retrieves a Java
 error so I thought I would mention it in case you were not aware of it.  I
 noticed it this past weekend and it's still having a problem.

 I found the link to it at this page :
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/faqs.html

 Which points to
 -http://nagoya.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayFaq
 s/action/SetAll/project_id/2

 Not sure if the link is incorrect or some other issue.

 __
 Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca




 -Original Message-
 From: Brumer, Haim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 8:36 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: faq o matic


 Hi,

 please fix the faq-o-matic (Jakarta).  I need info and the faq
 has been down for over a wk.

 thanks,
 haim




 -Original Message-
 From: Chanoch Wiggers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 3:53 PM
 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
 Subject:


 there seems to be a major problem with the faqomatic link on

 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/faqs.html

 which leads to the following:

 http://nagoya.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayFaqs/
 action/Set
 All/project_id/2


 which gives class not found exception copied in below. Hope this helps...

 chanoch

 technical editor
 wrox press ltd


 Exception: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError
 at
 org.apache.turbine.om.user.TurbineUser.setUserName(TurbineUser.java:648)
 at
 org.apache.turbine.om.user.peer.UserFactory.getUser(UserFactory.java:158)
 at
 org.apache.jyve.actions.sessionvalidator.DefaultSessionValidator.d
 oPerform(D
 efaultSessionValidator.java:101)
 at org.apache.turbine.modules.Action.perform(Action.java:91)
 at org.apache.turbine.modules.ActionLoader.exec(ActionLoader.java:119)
 at org.apache.turbine.Turbine.doGet(Turbine.java:325)
 at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:740)
 at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(A
 pplication
 FilterChain.java:247)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(Applicati
 onFilterCh
 ain.java:193)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapp
 erValve.ja
 va:243)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:5
 66)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)
 at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardConte
 xtValve.ja
 va:201)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:5
 66)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)
 at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.invoke(StandardContext.java:2344)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValv
 e.java:164
 )
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:5
 66)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorDispatcherValve.invoke(ErrorDispat
 cherValve.
 java:170)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:5
 64)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValv
 e.java:170
 )
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:5
 64)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)
 at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngine
 Valve.java
 :163)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:5
 66)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)
 at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.process(HttpProce
 ssor.java:
 1011)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.run(HttpProcessor
 .java:1106
 )
 at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484)




-Original Message-
From: Valerio Gruppo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: page ERROR - problel with FAQ link



http://nagoya.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayFaqs/action/Set
All/project_id/2

it doesn’t work!!!



Exception: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError
at
org.apache.turbine.om.user.TurbineUser.setUserName(TurbineUser.java:648

FW: Web site error

2002-01-29 Thread Paulo Gaspar



 -Original Message-
 From: Allen Chesley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:41 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Web site error


 The URL


 http://nagoya.apache.org:8080/jyve-faq/Turbine/screen/DisplayFaqs/
 action/SetAll/project_id/2

 which is the Official Jakarta Faq-o-matic link from URL

   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/faqs.html

 produces a set of JAVA exceptions as follows:

 Exception: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError
 at
 org.apache.turbine.om.user.TurbineUser.setUserName(TurbineUser.java:648)

 at
 org.apache.turbine.om.user.peer.UserFactory.getUser(UserFactory.java:158)

 at
 org.apache.jyve.actions.sessionvalidator.DefaultSessionValidator.d
 oPerform(DefaultSessionValidator.java:101)

 at org.apache.turbine.modules.Action.perform(Action.java:91)
 at
 org.apache.turbine.modules.ActionLoader.exec(ActionLoader.java:119)
 at org.apache.turbine.Turbine.doGet(Turbine.java:325)
 at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:740)
 at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(A
pplicationFilterChain.java:247)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(Applicati
 onFilterChain.java:193)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapp
 erValve.java:243)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:566)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardConte
 xtValve.java:201)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:566)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.invoke(StandardContext.java:2344)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValv
 e.java:164)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:566)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorDispatcherValve.invoke(ErrorDispat
 cherValve.java:170)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:564)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValv
 e.java:170)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:564)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngine
 Valve.java:163)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipel
 ine.java:566)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.
 java:472)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
 at
 org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.process(HttpProce
 ssor.java:1011)

 at
 org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.run(HttpProcessor
 .java:1106)

 at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484)









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RE: More abuse of coding styles...

2002-01-10 Thread Paulo Gaspar

This thread goes so loong with all of you
showing yours that I can't resist showing mine:


public void setSomething(Object i_something)
{
m_something = i_something;
}


Or even...

public void setSomething(Object i_something)
{
Object something;  // a local something

something = fixThat(i_something);

if (isCool(something))
{
m_something = i_something;
}
else
{
throw new IllegalArgumentException(What a bad thing we have
here!!!);
}
}


Prefix paranoia huh?

But I never mix class members with parameters or with local
vars due to similar spellings and misspellings and so.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:26 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: More abuse of coding styles...


 Sam Ruby wrote:

  Stephane Bailliez wrote:
 
 I can understand why:
 
 public void setSomething(Object something){
something = something;
 }
 
 
  Another solution is
 
  public void setSomething(Object something) {
   this.something = something;
  }


 Just beware of this bug:

 public void setSomething(Object somthing) { // something misspelled
  this.something = something;
 }


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RE: Code conventions

2002-01-09 Thread Paulo Gaspar

LOL!
Are you taking these guys seriously?
=;o)

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Carlos Alonso Vega [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 8:31 PM
 To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Code conventions
 
 
 
 Tim Vernum wrote:
 
   It's only two little lines extra to include the {}'s,
 
  Yeah, but those two lines will make my code run slower.
 
  Don't you know?
 
  The less space your source code takes, the less space
  your class file will take.
  And smaller classes run faster.
 
 
 Well, I could be wrong, but if i remember it well, the same 
 compiler produces the same object code no matter the number of 
 spaces, newlines, and tabs are between tokens, statements, and 
 so. They are not important for object code, just for readability. 
 Compiler could take a bit (quite bit) more to compile a file, but 
 once the class is generated, the result object file should be the same.
 
 (Forgive me if i am wrong)
 


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RE: [OT] Code conventions

2002-01-09 Thread Paulo Gaspar

What about at leat a clue ([OT]) that this is completely out
of topic?
=;o)

(Yeah! I should have done this before myself.)

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Armin Zeltner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:31 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Code conventions
 
 
 Hi folks,
 
 what  about micro-printed on-screen code, watched through glasses?
 faster? or  slower?
 
 
 JAVA is a myst
 
 
 Kurt Schrader wrote:
 
 
  On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 03:34 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
 
  What about if you set the font size really small? LOL
 
  -Andy
 
 
  Perhaps Microsoft just has their font size set really big.  :)
 
  -Kurt
 
 
  -- 
  To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
 
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RE: Mission ...

2002-01-09 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Production quality sounds MUCH better to me!

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:31 AM
 To: general at jakarta
 Subject: Re: Mission ...
 
 
 Personally, 
 
 While I don't have strong feeling about this, and a Mission statement is
 what it is...
 
 I don't know that commercial-quality is a positive thing these days. 
 Alternatively, I'd say high-quality.  Its a stupid distinction I know
 but I've used some duds that were supposedly commercial-quality
 (especially from *cough*microsoft*cough* the big vendors).  I feel
 Jakarta should champion OS software as being equal to or better than
 commercial-quality even when OS software is commecial (if that makes
 any sense).  Like I said pedantic but it just stuck out at me.
 
 -Andy
 -- 
 www.superlinksoftware.com
 www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java
 http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html 
   - fix java generics!
 
 
 The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
 vote.
 -Ambassador Kosh
 
 
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RE: crushed

2002-01-08 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Look at TC3 vs TC4 - I subscribed about a year ago to their dev 
 list and the 
 relationships between the two groups were less than good and a few people 
 were trying to make the division even greater .. apparently now 
 all is good over there. 

Keep in mind (maybe not Peter but other readers of this post) that:

 1) Both groups always had common long term objectives but disagreed on the
way to achieve them or had different short term targets;

 2) If there had been a strict imposition from above, TC3.3 could have been
forked and a lot of that group could have gone elsewhere. Maybe this
would have permanently destroyed many synergies between the 2 groups 
that were always there (like with the connectors) and others that are
now evolving.

In the process, maybe some TC3.3 ideas proved their worth to some TC4
guys, which means increased cross pollination.

In this case strict control would have prevented several positive things 
from happening.


Similar situation with the Logging APIs, just that this time on separate
projects:

 1) Now both groups are quite a bit incompatible and forcing a merge would
destroy or send away one of the projects;

 2) Still, some projects prefer Log4J and others LogKit;

 3) Each of these Logging libraries seems to have its advantages and 
different strong and week spots. I am quite sure of this since at the
company I work for we have been using LogKit and Log4J for different
projects and I have been doing some logging work with both;

 4) The need of other projects (e.g.: commons components) to use both is
already putting some pressure into cross pollination. With time, it 
can happen that:
  - They will finally be able to merge;
  - One of them will learn all the advantages from the other and 
become dominant.
Either way, positive cross pollination is bound to happen.

This is why I would prefer to have both projects around instead of just
forcing them to merge. Lets put some peer pressure on them without 
destroying them.

Many general strict rules - like forcing to merge what seems to be the 
same thing - would be very destructive in this kind of situation. 

Common sense must be applied (like: no, you can not fork Tomcat in 
another project) on a case by case basis.

And yes, I am aware of how uncommon common sense seems to be but I still
believe there is enough of it around here.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:12 PM
 
 
 On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:02, Jeff Turner wrote:
  I would encourage people (esp. Jon, Ceki, Peter) to read Linus' emails
  on design:
 
The problem with singlemindedness and strict control (or design)
is that it sure gets you from point A to point B in a much straighter
line, and with less expenditure of energy, but how the HELL are you
going to consistently know where you actually want to end up?  It's
not like we know that B is our final destination.
 
 -- http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398
 
 Choice is fine and the more the better. However I would much 
 prefer that all 
 Xs were implemented by one project where X is whatever we are 
 talking about. 
 Look at TC3 vs TC4 - I subscribed about a year ago to their dev 
 list and the 
 relationships between the two groups were less than good and a few people 
 were trying to make the division even greater .. apparently now 
 all is good 
 over there. 
 
 Isn't that a better solution than having projects side by side 
 competing? 
 Sure it may be rocky for a bit but it is better for Apache in the 
 end (though 
 maybe less ego stroking for the individual developers).
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 
 Pete
 
 -
 First, we shape our tools, thereafter, they shape us.
 -


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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-08 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Turbine and Avalon serve very distinct purposes, uses and users.

They just have a load of components trying to do the same thing.

Those could be shared and unified by placing them in the commons.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:13 PM
 
 On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 03:04, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
  on 1/7/02 2:45 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:33, Ceki Gulcu wrote:
   Peter,
  
   So are you proposing to become a log4j committer?
  
   Would there be a point to that?
 
  sarcasm
  Exactly. Collaboration on a single logging tool would be a 
 terrible idea.
  /sarcasm
 
 so would collaboration on a web framework
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 
 Pete
 
 -
 Clarke's Third Law: Any technology distinguishable from 
 magic is insufficiently advanced.
 -


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RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)

2002-01-08 Thread Paulo Gaspar

I was not demanding karma, just stating what I thought were obstacles.

Now I have some clues and it looks like I can help even without karma.
=:o)


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:54 AM
 
 Paulo Gaspar wrote:
 
  No karma, no clue on how to change a Jakarta web page!
  =:o/
 
  But at least puting the URL on the list should be a couple of
  minutes for someone who does know.
 
 karma follows clue, i.e., get a clue, and you get karma.
 
 A good place to start is by going to http://jakarta.apache.org;, and
 clicking on About this site.
 
 One thing that a handful of us are painfully aware of... there are
 literally hundreds, if not thousands, of couple of minute tasks 
 that come
 up a week - granting someone karma, moderating spam from the 
 mailing lists,
 chasing down build breakages.
 
 - Sam Ruby


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RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)

2002-01-08 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 My guess then is that you have not read down the page far enough then.  No
 demands required.

Wrong guess.
=;o)

I am noisy but not a committer in any Apache projects.
Just posted a few patches on a couple of projects.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:01 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)


 Paulo Gaspar wrote:
 
  I was not demanding karma, just stating what I thought were obstacles.
 
  Now I have some clues and it looks like I can help even without karma.
  =:o)

 My guess then is that you have not read down the page far enough then.  No
 demands required.

 - Sam Ruby


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RE: Volunteer Wanted

2002-01-08 Thread Paulo Gaspar

LOL

I am willing to help but I will not stop being a pain in your ass
when I find it necessary.

Please remember that I do not systematicaly disagree with you. I 
just disagree when I can not agree.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:50 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Volunteer Wanted
 
 
 I want to remove my name from this page:
 
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html
 
 I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start
 contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool?
 
 -jon
 
 
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RE: Volunteer Wanted

2002-01-08 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ok Ted,

At the moment I do not have enough time to assume the responsibility
for the whole thing but I am willing to help. (I also do not have
the time for flaming days like yesterday.)

One more making some of the work must be of some help.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:21 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Volunteer Wanted


 The Webmaster box is a group account, and its easy to share. Just hit
 reply-all so the other webmasters know you replied.

 Peir used to help out, but he's off now. Another committer helps out now
 and again, but its mostly just me now. Which is fine, but I thought I
 would float the offer since it came up.

 I also just put up one of Jon's famous gatekeeper pages,

 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contact.html

 which may cut down the traffic a bit (which isn't much now).

 It's really not a problem.

 -T.


 Ceki Gülcü wrote:
 
  First, the page is outdated, Java Apache is not Jakarta.
 Second, acting as a receptionist at desk with a million visitors
 a day is not what I call a dream job. The task should left to one
 person but shared on a rotational basis.
 
  I am willing to be the first and take over for *one* month. Any
 other volunteers? Regards, Ceki
 
  At 14:57 08.01.2002 -0500, you wrote:
  I'd say it should be the [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  and if anyone, including Paulo, want to help out with the Webmaster
  emails, that would be great.
  
  Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
  
   I want to remove my name from this page:
  
   http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html
  
   I nominate Paulo to put his name there instead so that he can start
   contributing more than just being a pain in my ass. Is that cool?
  
   -jon
  
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mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  For additional commands, e-mail:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
 -- Building Java web applications with Struts.
 -- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
 -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
 
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 For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 --
 Ceki Gülcü - http://qos.ch

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-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

I would still prefer having both around.

There are users and committers for each that are not 
willing to move to the other.

IMO, community rules.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:45 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Commons Validator Packaging/Content
 
 
 On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:33, Ceki Gulcu wrote:
  Peter,
 
  So are you proposing to become a log4j committer?
 
 Would there be a point to that? 
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 
 Pete
 
 ---
 To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme 
 excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the 
 enemy's resistance without fighting. - Sun Tzu, 300 B.C.
 ---


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RE: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache]

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

As a newbie (only 1.5 years around) I found the small bio posted by
Stefano on the Cocoon-dev list very interesting and instructive.

This post was triggered by curiosity and know-your-community concerns
that popped up in a couple of Cocoon-dev threads less than 2 months
ago. IMO, the fact that it is written in the first person only helps.

To ease the task of searching for it, I am just attaching it. Maybe
Ted and others can use it as an historic source.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:48 PM


 Ted Husted wrote:

  At this point, I'm reconciled to do more work on the Jakata site using
  XML in the old-fashioned way.

 I can't resonate more with your feelings. That's exactly what made me
 started the 'forrest' effort: the coherence on xml.apache.org and the
 ease of update has been slowly falling apart until now when people can't
 even run in on their machines without getting fonts problems (yeah,
 blocked by fonts problems! go figure!)

  We have some unratified guidelines that expand on the ones (you?)
  originally set down.

 No, that wasn't me to edit that page, even if much was taken from my
 java.apache constitution (as you indicate below), which on my side, took
 from the old dev.apache.org guidelines for [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  http://jakarta.apache.org/site/proposal.html
 
  If you were able to review them, I would of course very much like to
  have your comments before making a final update and calling for a vote.

 I'm honored. I'll do it ASAP.

  I would also like to add more rationale for some of the guidelines. The
  recent dicussion regarding coding conventions had less to do with the
  conventions themselves, and more to do with why we even have
  conventions. (And having conventions, why don't we enforce them.)

 Good point.

  As Jakarta grows, it becomes more and more important that we have better
  ways to introduce peoole into the fold. Right now, there is a tendency
  to make someone a Committer and let them find their own way around. At
  this time, I'd like to go to work on a Committer's guidebook that would
  help explain how things are done (starting with How to do a Release --
  which raised the JAR discussion the other day).

 Oh, gosh, you are probably unaware of the fact that I'm the one that
 continously pisses people off on the ASF member list (unfortunately
 private) about having those 'committer guidelines' up and running. James
 Davidson and I were the one who made the page on how to setup your SSH
 tunnel for CVS.

 Yes, this is the right direction, but people must commit to keep those
 guidelines up 2 date and many people (expecially apache root's) failed
 miserably to do it.

 Also we must make those easy to find.

 Again, Forrest will help.

  I think the real solution to improving the noise:signal ratio is to move
  away from the oral (email) tradition we have now, and move back toward
  providing more grassroots documentation, as you did in the preamble to
  the original constition.
 
  http://java.apache.org/main/constitution.html

 Absolutely.

  An actual history of Jakarta might also be useful to give people a
  better perspective. Here's one passages I tucked away (to be joined by
  your own snippets of late).
 
  Pier to Jon - Thu, 21 Dec 2000
   We've traveled a long
   way together, from my very first steps in open-source land in
 January 1998,
   to our marvelous meeting at the first ApacheCON in October
 1998, the Jakarta
   room meeting, all JavaONEs, and all we did together to bring
 this project
   where it is right now.
 
  Pier again, same day
   And we, as the newly formed Apache Software Foundation,
 accepted that code
   in donation as a point of start for the Jakarta Project. I
 was there, in
   that meeting room, that day when we outlined how the process
 would have
   evolved, with Jon, Stefano and Brian. And I was there, on
 stage at JavaONE,
   when Patricia Sueltz announced the spinoff of the project
 againg with Jon,
   Stefano and Brian. If that has been a wrong decision, we four
 are the people
   to blame...
 
  A coherent history might help with many of the questions about why we do
  things the way we do. (Or why we don't do some things at all.) I think
  clearly documenting the Apache Way would be an important first step to
  unifying the Apache Projects.

 Great point. I absolutely agree.

  I would also like to personally commend Jon with his efforts to better
  document Jakarta. He has put a lot into the Web site (probably 90%), and
  we all owe him a great debt.

 Oh, I never even thought about questioning this.

 I personally owe everything to Jon: without his kind messages, I
 wouldn't have remained around the community enough to get the 'apache
 feeling' out of it.

 Jon and I have very different technical views and very different ways of
 doing software architectures and sometimes some friction develops, but
 all

RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Jon wrote:

 There is no community. There is projects which have people who follow them
 blindly.

I do not believe that.

What I am seeing are the same signs Sam sees:

 Sam wrote:

 In my, admittedly biased, perspective, I see significant improvement in
 terms of community over the course of the past eleven months or so.  For
 starters, the following results would have been inconceivable at the time:

http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/2002-01-07/

 I also see an initiative by Ted and others to build a commons are which
 promotes reuse.  Conscientious objectors notwithstanding, they plow
 relentlessly ahead, continuing to make incremental and enduring progress.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:05 PM


 on 1/7/02 3:14 AM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I would still prefer having both around.
 
  There are users and committers for each that are not
  willing to move to the other.
 
  IMO, community rules.

 There is no community. There is projects which have people who follow them
 blindly.

 -jon


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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Being PMC chair isn't going to help solve any problems because of
 our system of checks and balances.

I just love checks and balances.
It is the least perfect system except for all the others already tried.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:04 PM


 on 1/7/02 8:55 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Be forewarned that the Apache tradition is to allow people with enough
   fire in their belly to tackle a particular problem that is important
   to them the freedom to do so.  If the problems you see are something
   that you feel need tackling and the only effective way in
 which this can
   be accomplished is for you to become the Jakarta PMC chair,
 then I could
   certainly arrange for an election to take place.  I can't guarantee the
   results of the election or the success of your quest, but I can do my
   part to enable you to pursue your goals.
 
   Think about this for a while, and let me know if this is a
 path you wish
   to pursue.
 
  - Sam Ruby

 Being PMC chair isn't going to help solve any problems because of
 our system
 of checks and balances.

 In other words, I don't see PMC chair being any more important or
 special or
 enabled than simply being a member of the PMC, which I already am.

 As I already said, I also don't think I have enough backing to:

 #1. Get voted into being the PMC chair.
 #2. Make enough of a change to help turn Jakarta around from a slow
 spiraling death.

 -jon


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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Which projects are those?
Can you really compare them - and their community - with Jakarta?

I just want to know more.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:16 PM

 ...

 Exactly. I feel that this lack of semblance of control from the top has
 actually hurt us. Looking at the success of other projects which have more
 control at the top makes me realize this. Jakarta to me is now a complete
 anarchy where people can do whatever they want without having to
 worry about consequences over the long term.

 -jon


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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 I do what I can at the pace I am able.

Which is quite impressive. Especially considering that you probably have
other duties and a live.

I agree 100% with the rest (especially with the mass revolt bit).

Checking mechanisms (automatic or manual) and systematic nagging look 
much more constructive and efficient to me than occasional bursts of
flames.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:17 PM
 
 Jon Stevens wrote:
 
  There were no documents like that before I wrote it.
 
 Forgive me, but I still hold to my belief that that at the time it was
 written, that document wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
 
  Just like there was no nag.pl before I came up with the idea to 
 implement
  it.
 
 You can believe what you want.  It was part of my master plan.
 
  If anything, you initially resisted nag.pl. One way I know this is
 because
  as the PMC Chair, you refused make it a requirement of projects to have
 it
  enabled. Instead, you relied on social pressures to work their magic.
 This
  actually extended the amount of time it took for people to 
 adopt Gump and
  raise its awareness. It also caused quite a bit of pain (as you say
 below)
  as projects had votes against it.
 
 IIRC, your plan was to send nags on succcesses as well as failures.
 
 Re: mass conversion - I still believe that there would have been mass
 revolt instead.  I do not have enough arms and legs to be 
 everywhere at all
 times.  I have deliberatedly paced the rate at which I have incorporated
 new codebases based on how many battles I felt that I could concurrently
 fight.
 
 There are quite a few code bases that took a number of iterations before
 the either saw the light or resigned themselves to the fact that I wasn't
 going to relent.
 
  Exactly. I feel that this lack of semblance of control from the top has
  actually hurt us. Looking at the success of other projects which have
 more
  control at the top makes me realize this. Jakarta to me is now 
 a complete
  anarchy where people can do whatever they want without having to worry
 about
  consequences over the long term.
 
 I do what I can at the pace I am able.
 
 - Sam Ruby


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RE: Cross-pollination

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

A document in some web page buried deep in the structure of a large web
site is not open to public discussion because unless you are privy to
reading all the web site you don't know about it.


Hey... that is why not so many people knew about Intake!!!
...and it is even harder to find out that there is a Connection Pool in
Turbine.

I casually found DBCP the first time I visited the commons page in a
couple of minutes but had to use Google before loosing my patience trying
to find it at the Turbine pages.


Forrest is very recent and maybe the xml.apache guys should have already
posted a note about it HERE and on several other spots.

However, making information public across Apache demands a bit more work
than just posting it at a single spot, web site or mailing list.


Just trying to make sure you understand how much effort can take to make
information public across such large community and how easy is to fail
when everybody does not read everything.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:18 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Cross-pollination


 I care what is openly documented on websites. A mailing list discussion is
 not an open discussion because unless you are privy to reading
 all the mail,
 you don't know about it.

 -jon

 on 1/7/02 11:08 AM, Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  It has been discussed on general@xml.  Check the archives.
 
  Scott
  


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RE: crushed

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 I would encourage people (esp. Jon, Ceki, Peter) to read Linus' emails
 on design:
 
   The problem with singlemindedness and strict control (or design)
   is that it sure gets you from point A to point B in a much straighter
   line, and with less expenditure of energy, but how the HELL are you
   going to consistently know where you actually want to end up?  It's
   not like we know that B is our final destination.
 
-- http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398


UAU!
Another guy that saw the light!!!
=:oD

Have fun,
Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Jeff Turner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:51 AM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: crushed
 
 
 On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 03:44:50PM -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
  Guys,
  
  This whole experience has become a bit disheartening.  Craig McClanahan
  who is like an idol of mine said this:
  
  
  We will continue to do what we've done in the past -- reject projects
  that only want the name recognition value of being under Apache, and
  don't have a development community compatible with Apache's style.
  That's much more important than whether it's server-side versus
  client-side, or in one repository versus another.
  
  
  Seemingly directed at POI.
 
 I don't see what the problem is. Read it carefully.. for that statement
 to apply, POI would have to:
 
  - _only_ want the name recognition.
  - have a development community incompatible with Apache's style
 
 Do either of those statements apply to POI?
 
 Incidentally, the other statement Craig made in that email sums it all
 up for me:
 
  The point from Jon that I *do* dismiss is his feeling that there
  should be one and only one implementation of any particular
  functionality -- one size fits all is a very rare phenomenon in my
  experience, and having some choice is helpful.
 
 I have _never_ seen a user complain about having too many choices. Not
 even between notorious duplications like Tomcat 3/4 and Crimson/Xerces.
 
 I _have_ seen users want comparisons, and better docs to help them make
 the choice. 
 
 Choice is good. Documented choice is infinitely better :)
 
 I would encourage people (esp. Jon, Ceki, Peter) to read Linus' emails
 on design:
 
   The problem with singlemindedness and strict control (or design)
   is that it sure gets you from point A to point B in a much straighter
   line, and with less expenditure of energy, but how the HELL are you
   going to consistently know where you actually want to end up?  It's
   not like we know that B is our final destination.
 
-- http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398
 
 
 --Jeff
 
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RE: crushed

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Part of what I'm asking for is very simple: documentation of the
 process and then following that process.

 Remember that all of this started with something as simple as source code
 formatting. We can't even get that right or even anything close
 to agreement on it.

Jon,

I see you crying a lot over this but no POSITIVE initiative.

Sam already suggested performing an automated check and NAG the trespassers.
Do you see a better alternative?

I believe you already slapped me around a few times for complaining instead
of acting. Your turn to act.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:05 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: crushed


 on 1/7/02 3:51 PM, Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The problem with singlemindedness and strict control (or design)
  is that it sure gets you from point A to point B in a much straighter
  line, and with less expenditure of energy, but how the HELL are you
  going to consistently know where you actually want to end up?  It's
  not like we know that B is our final destination.
 
   -- http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398

 That isn't entirely what I'm asking for (re: singlemindedness and strict
 control).

 Part of what I'm asking for is very simple: documentation of the
 process and
 then following that process.

 Remember that all of this started with something as simple as source code
 formatting. We can't even get that right or even anything close
 to agreement
 on it.

 -jon


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RE: Questions

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 If we were to elect a new PMC Chair tomorrow, who would you like to see
 elected?

Why is that question important???

Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:07 AM


 on 1/7/02 1:36 PM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Look, I think Sam is irreplaceable and so are you.  I don't
 want to even think
  about what would happen if anything happened to any of you.
 Heaven forbid.
  That's all I have to say on this.

 You and Ted are focusing on the wrong part of the question. Let
 me rephrase
 the same question another way so that you can see how your focus is on the
 wrong thing:

 If we were to elect a new PMC Chair tomorrow, who would you like to see
 elected?

 -jon


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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Jboss's success seems to be one project. I'm actually glad they went to
 sourceforge...they would have struggled to survive here...

How can you know?

I have studied their code and their documentation some months ago, I 
have also followed some of their mailling lists for sometime and that is
not that obvious to me.

I do NOT prefer what they call community. I do not find their code that 
good. I do not like their documentation that much.

JBoss success has a lot to do with the lack of credible alternative for
something with a lot of demand, unlike Jakarta products like Tomcat or
Velocity.

Give me a better case and/or concrete reasons, please.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:25 AM
 
 on 1/7/02 4:26 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Which projects are those?
  Can you really compare them - and their community - with Jakarta?
 
 Jboss's success seems to be one project. I'm actually glad they went to
 sourceforge...they would have struggled to survive here...
 
 -jon


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RE: Cultural homogeneity

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 So, that's my $0.00 this time around (that's about 10,000 Turkish 
 Lira today). 

I would give at least 2 Euros for this one!
=:o)

Couldn't say it better... or I would have done it before!
=:o)


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Kief Morris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:30 AM
 
 Jon Scott Stevens typed the following on 04:22 PM 1/6/2002 -0800
 on 1/6/02 3:46 PM, Kief Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Although I haven't been participating, I've been following 
 this discussion,
  and would like to donate my 30,000 Turkish Lira (roughly $0.02 
 at today's
  rates).
 
 Yes, everyone has an opinion and it is easy to express, but no 
 one stands up
 to actually make anything of it. So, therefore, the opinion is actually
 worthless (ie: $0.00).
 
 I'm sorry you feel that way Jon, but I don't entirely see that 
 you're making
 anything of your opinions either. Not to disrespect your contributions to
 Jakarta, but if we're discussing what's wrong with Jakarta, what's your 
 solution? So far the most concrete solution I've seen from you is that
 Geir or Ceki would make a better PMC than Sam, presumably because
 they would govern with a more iron fist. So, if that's what you want, do
 something about it, you're a PMC member, call for a vote. Otherwise,
 what do you suggest be done?
 
 What exactly *is* the problem with Jakarta from your POV? My 
 interpretation
 of your comments is that Jakarta needs to be more tightly managed (more
 Cathedral than Bazaar?) I see this as more of a philosophical 
 problem: some
 people prefer a more loosely knit organization, consensus rather 
 than command,
 some prefer a more tightly run ship. You say that the current management
 philosophy has sunk the ship, Jakarta is a big failure, etc., but 
 what *exactly*
 has gone wrong?
 
 - Code standards are not being enforced. An issue, maybe, but IMO 
 not something
   that has killed the project, I can't see that it's had a 
 negative effect on the
   quality of the code or its success in the industry: it's just 
 untidy. And I think it's
   perfectly correctible within the current regime. Somebody who 
 doesn't like it
   can implement the system Sam suggested to monitor and nag code 
 formatting.
   If nobody can be arsed to implement that, it can't be that big 
 a problem, can it?
 
 - Duplication of code (logging, validation, etc.) Partly a 
 philosophical problem. As Craig
   says, diversity is good. On the other hand, maybe Jakarta 
 should present a clear,
   unified interface to its users.
 
 I have to straddle the fence here, (sorry, I'm failing to make 
 something again), and
 say I agree that Jakarta could be better, but I don't think a 
 more dictatorial central
 command would achieve that. For example, you suggest Sam should 
 take authority 
 and mandate documentation requirements. Why not propose it, and have the
 community agree on it? If the community doesn't want to do it, 
 Sam or someone
 else imposing rules from on high isn't going to make them do it. 
 
 I can see your frustration - there are lots of things like the 
 above issues that
 you would like to see changed, and if the only way to make them happen is
 for an interested person to make it so, then you're faced with 
 the alternatives
 of doing it yourself (and you already do a lot of shit, and 
 apparently on the
 edge of burning yourself out), or seeing it not get done. Having 
 someone else
 take charge and impose order probably seems like the ideal solution. 
 
 But if someone were to actually do that at Jakarta, the suspect 
 the results would 
 be massive defections, and a severe shrinking of the project. A 
 laissez-faire
 community can tolerate people who want more order, but an authoritarian
 regime can't tolerate those who want more freedom.
 
 Maybe defections of those who don't want a tightly run ship would 
 suit you, Jakarta 
 would be reduced to a smaller, more easily managed project, more 
 like the old
 days, perhaps. 
 
 So I'm still not contributing anything to this. Why not? Because 
 Jakarta as it
 exists suits my needs very well. I'm always finding more useful 
 stuff in Jakarta,
 and although there are rough edges - build processes aren't 
 consistent, and it
 does occasionally annoy me to have to install a different package 
 for logging
 or such - for the most part, these things are much more 
 consistent than what I 
 find on sourceforge. If I can find a Jakarta package that does 
 what I need, I don't
 usually care if what's on sourceforge is better, I'll use the 
 Jakarta version
 because it shares the build processes, package dependencies, and process
 for contributing changes, that I'm used to. The sourceforge 
 projects I've dabbled
 with just aren't put together the way I like.
 
 So, that's my $0.00 this time around (that's about 10,000 Turkish 
 Lira today). 
 
 Kief
 
 
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RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Answer inline,

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:18 AM


 on 1/7/02 5:18 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Jboss's success seems to be one project. I'm actually glad they went to
  sourceforge...they would have struggled to survive here...
 
  How can you know?

 I hosted their project on my servers for the first couple of
 years they were
 alive and have had a boat load of conversations with Marc.

You sure seem to be well informed.
=;o)


  I have studied their code and their documentation some months ago, I
  have also followed some of their mailling lists for sometime and that is
  not that obvious to me.
 
  I do NOT prefer what they call community. I do not find their code that
  good. I do not like their documentation that much.
 
  JBoss success has a lot to do with the lack of credible alternative for
  something with a lot of demand

 I think it is more than that though...they have worked to develop a
 community and a LOT of interest. At least that is what their website
 suggests. It could be a result of what you say, but Jakarta's
 success isn't
 necessarily because of our projects or our community...it is
 because of the Apache name behind it.

I think you overvalue Apache's name on that and undervalue the quality of
what is done here.

I moved here less than 2 years ago and I believe my POV is more impartial
about that, since I was not immersed on Jakarta since day one as you did.


If you want a detail account of how a newbie arrives and stays at Apache:

The fact that Apache made the famous Apache Web server did not motivate me
to get an immediate adept of its Java stuff at all. I thought:
  So, they have Java. Having people that know how to make a Web server
   does not mean they know how to do anything else. Probably it is not
   even the same people.

But since I had found Apache's Java page by accident, I decided to take a
look. New to web development, JServ did not impress me at all.

I wanted to use Java since Servlets and JSPs looked much better designed
and easier to use than ISAPI Extensions and ASPs (yes... coming from the
MS platform). Servlets looked even simpler and more powerful than using
Delphi for the ISAPI extensions (I did not even consider using VC++).

Since JServ looked so basic, I went on trying JRun (argh! it sure was
buggy) and Sun's Java Web Server (argh! buggy and heavy and slooowww!!!).

I took a look at a load of other Servlet engines. Some were way too
expensive for what they were worth... or it was just not sure at all
they were worth something at all. Others were too basic or fragile.

Then I found out many people saying that JServ was very robust, found
about Tomcat, tried both and started using JServ (and started getting
into flame wars with Jon about TC 3.3 (o;= ).


So I did not come here because of the Apache name, but because JServ
had its own reputation for robustness and because Tomcat was almost
there. (And I tested and played with Tomcat much more than with JServ
to be sure of that.)


It was the same with all other Java software and source code I am
using. I tried to find alternatives everywhere, used Google, spent
hours digging on Java publications and on source code. In the end
most of what I use is Apache again.


I once had a list of around 10 projects/project-families which Docs
and Source I considered worth checking with some detail after a lot
of pre-selection work (which already included taking a look at bits
of code and reading a lot of docs). Among these project families
were big monsters like JBoss, Exolab, Locomotive, etc. I even
subscribed most JBoss lists and some from Exolab.

In terms of the source code I adapted, everything I ended up using
was Apache. Only recently did I integrate a couple of other classes.
Only one non-Apache project taught me something really meaningful
that I really used. (I learned a lot other stuff, of course. But I
am not using it - most of it is JNDI and otherwise J2EE related.)

In terms of libraries, lets take a look at my lib directory...
Sun Java APIs, JDBC drivers, a couple of scripting engines (I
recommend Pnuts - damn fast) and Apache stuff again!

A Search Engine and a Logging API used in my company ended up
coming to Apache - Log4J and Lucene.

btw-ot-remark
I currently use LogKit in my stuff, wrapped by (an adapted)
Avalon's common logging interface. One size does not fit all and,
unless one of them changes a lot, I would rather have both.
/btw-ot-remark


That I ended up with Apache for almost everything as nothing to do
with the Apache brand. It just has to do with:
 1 - The quality of the product;
 2 - This crazy and brilliant community.


And yes, my eyes are not closed to the world outside Apache and I
keep checking other tools and libraries. But I end up learning
more about good outside Apache tools form Apache related sources
than from all other sources together - which means that many others

RE: Commons Validator Packaging/Content

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Ceki, I believe all you say.

However that does not mean that JBoss does better elsewhere than it would
do here.

Jon stated that some non-Apache projects show that there are better ways
of doing Open Source and gave JBoss as an example.

But we just do not know how it would be if they were her.

IMHO, JBoss is much cleaner of nonsense and much easier to get working
than all the other Open Source app servers. That's it - no competition.
It would probably also have no competition at Apache just by having the
same core developers and core orientations (or just most of them).

I just think they always had the best direction by a long way and that
it would be like that anyway.


Orion, although cheap and good, is payware... and I think I would choose
JBoss even if Orion was Open Source (but I am not even 80% sure, much
because Orion isn't OS).


Me thinks Jon must come up with a better example to prove his POV.
Me also thinks it will not be easy since Apache is quite good.

And I am not a Jakarta founder. I took a look around with impartiality.

I think Jon is undervaluing Jakarta because he helped creating it and
he is comparing what it is with what he dreamed it would be. Things tend
not to work according to our high expectations.

I am comparing it with what I see elsewhere.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:36 AM


 The JBoss guys are very smart. Scott Stark is extremely high
 caliber. Mark is no idiot either. Jboss is successful because it
 is so fucking good. From where I stand, the other appservers are
 just copying JBoss. Where do you think the MBean architecture in
 Weblogic 6.x came from?

 The problem with JBoss is that while they innovate BEA and IBM
 make all the dough. Such is the nature of opensource. Bloody fucking hell!

 (From what I hear Orion is pretty good too.)

 At 02:18 08.01.2002 +0100, you wrote:
  Jboss's success seems to be one project. I'm actually glad they went to
  sourceforge...they would have struggled to survive here...
 
 How can you know?
 
 I have studied their code and their documentation some months ago, I
 have also followed some of their mailling lists for sometime and that is
 not that obvious to me.
 
 I do NOT prefer what they call community. I do not find their code that
 good. I do not like their documentation that much.
 
 JBoss success has a lot to do with the lack of credible alternative for
 something with a lot of demand, unlike Jakarta products like Tomcat or
 Velocity.
 
 Give me a better case and/or concrete reasons, please.
 
 
 Have fun,
 Paulo Gaspar


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RE: crushed

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 That is because I don't see a way to fix the problems and I'm not sure I
 have the energy to actually go through with it anymore.

Did you ever run or walk a Marathon? Or just 20 Km?
Or swim 10Km?

It is one step (or stroke) after the other or you get too tired just by
thinking about it.


 I haven't seen you give any positive initiative's either. People say I
 contribute a lot around here. Why does it always have to be me?

It does not have to be you.

And I do not have to give a new idea since:
 - Sam's idea looks good enough for checking code style and nagging the
   offenders;

 - Stefano work on Forrest might improve a lot the site. It will take a
   couple of months for xml.apache to talk jakarta into it, have a couple
   of flame wars, adapting tools and layouts, etc... 
   But the first step is taken and we all just need a bit of good will;
   
 - Someone already suggested (sorry, forgot whom!) having a search engine
   to help on finding information in Apache.
   Obvious solution, placing at the Jakarta home page:
 - A REALLY VISIBLE LINK TO http://search.apache.org/
 - A simplified version of the form in that URL.
   (It is simple to shorten that form so that it only searches in
Jakarta, or xml.apache, or Jakarta + xml.apache, etc.
   )

   Even if this did not exist (and considering the problems of putting 
   Lucene on an Apache BSD server) we could even use Google!
   It looks like they are keeping their indexes on Apache up to date 
   (the new home page is indexed) and they have a free solution:
  http://www.google.com/services/free.html

  
So, I think there are already a few solutions for the most immediate 
problems.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar
   

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:00 AM
 
 on 1/7/02 5:10 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I see you crying a lot over this but no POSITIVE initiative.
 
 That is because I don't see a way to fix the problems and I'm not sure I
 have the energy to actually go through with it anymore.
 
 I haven't seen you give any positive initiative's either. People say I
 contribute a lot around here. Why does it always have to be me?
 
 -jon


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RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

What about just a version of this form:
   http://search.apache.org/

or a link to it???

Take a look at my previous posting (the crushed thread) for more
details. It can be made (hidden fields I love you) to search any
sub-domain just by changing its HTML.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:31 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)


 on 1/7/02 6:26 PM, Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The idea of a Jakarta code search engine has arisen a few times. Any
  lucene or alexandria developers care to comment? Cocoon docs are already
  searchable apparently, though this functionality isn't online.
 
  Alternatively, a simple link to Google (restricted by
  site:jakarta.apache.org) from the front page might help.
 
  --Jeff

 Good suggestion! Maybe setting up LXR would also be a cool idea.

 Not sure how much it will help since people have a hard enough
 time figuring
 out how to format code and send mail to the right mailing list... :-)

 That said, I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to learn from Mozilla.org as
 well. They seem pretty successful and have much larger numbers
 than us. :-)

 -jon


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RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

No karma, no clue on how to change a Jakarta web page!
=:o/

But at least puting the URL on the list should be a couple of 
minutes for someone who does know.


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 5:05 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)
 
 
 on 1/7/02 7:59 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  What about just a version of this form:
   http://search.apache.org/
  
  or a link to it???
  
  Take a look at my previous posting (the crushed thread) for more
  details. It can be made (hidden fields I love you) to search any
  sub-domain just by changing its HTML.
  
  
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar
 
 Ok Paulo, do it. Make it happen.
 
 -jon


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RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

COOL!
=:o)

 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:03 AM
 
 
 On 1/8/02 12:05 AM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  No karma, no clue on how to change a Jakarta web page!
  =:o/
  
  But at least puting the URL on the list should be a couple of
  minutes for someone who does know.
 
 Done.
 
  


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RE: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)

2002-01-07 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Well, I did learn how to change a Jakarta web page!
This time the theory, next time the patch!
=:o)

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:45 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Jakarta code search engine? (Re: crushed)
 
 
 on 1/7/02 9:05 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  No karma
 
 Submit a patch.
 
 , no clue on how to change a Jakarta web page!
 
 RTFM
 
 http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jakarta-site2.html
 
 
 Oh well, Geir did your work for you, so you don't learn anything.
 
 -jon
 
 
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RE: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @apache]

2002-01-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Here we go again,

 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 4:45 AM


 Playing Devil's advocate.  I think it's fair to push back on adding things
 to Jakarta...

 On 1/5/02 9:53 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Please read these posts and then tell me where you're not clear?
 
  http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg02681.html

 Isn't it fair to guess that the majority of your server side use would be
 reading documents for presentation, indexing, searching?

WHY for presentation? Most of the time you would batch convert Word and
Excel docs to HTML if needed, and there are specialized tools for that.

 However, you point out in the above link that the thing that makes POI
 special is it's ability to *write*?  What's the % of mainly writing to
 mainly reading on the serverside?

As mentioned in my previous posting, it is JUST like Velocity writing
HTML.


  http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg02685.html

 Paulo might use VB to make a client side app, but I wouldn't if I wanted
 portability, especially if I was looking to the handheld or embedded
 application that could access a document remotely...

Are there many uses for writing Word/Excel documents in a client-side
device that has not Word or Excel installed???

And AFAIK, if you have Word and Excel, you have at least some Basic
scripting... but maybe you do not have Java.

 ...


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


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RE: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @apache]

2002-01-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Again...

 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:14 PM
 
 On 1/6/02 12:11 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ... Lots of is it server or is it client talk ...

I just mean that sometimes saying that something is server-side or 
client-side just makes no sense.

As Ceki puts it, maybe JMeter is one of the few clearly server-side 
products in Jakarta. 

BTW... is Log4J server-side?
=;o)


  From what I read, POI is an API that accesses data in XLS files...
  Theres a huge difference.
  
  And Cocoon isn't part of Jakarta, is it? :)
  
  JUST because it is XML centric, which POI is not.
 
 Right.  I wasn't advocating it going to XML-land - it doesn't 
 seem to belong there either.

It am still not aware of any valid argument that clearly states why
it does not belong to Jakarta or why it belongs.

It is just like BCEL or Log4J - some people wanted those projects here
because they had use for them or were already using them.

Nothing to do with serversideness!!!

  
  BTW, do you know they use Velocity for something???
 
 Who, POI?

NO! Cocoon!

 ...

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


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RE: Cultural homogeneity

2002-01-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Or maybe we should just recognize that use of those terms is relatively 
 arbitrary for many (most?) of the jakarta projects and throw it away 
 completely? 

That is exactly what I think.

Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:57 PM
 
 On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:57, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
  So the problematic part of the conversation is that we are hung 
 up on the
  literal semantics behind the words 'client' and 'server' and 
 would be good
  to explore that.
 
 Or maybe we should just recognize that use of those terms is relatively 
 arbitrary for many (most?) of the jakarta projects and throw it away 
 completely? 
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 
 Pete


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RE: Cultural homogeneity

2002-01-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 I was just using it as a platform for the topic I really want to discuss.

Go for the topic.
=:o)

I think that we are already discussing that topic but POI is now becoming
more of a distraction than an example.

Name the topic and I will try not to get distracted.
=;o)


Have fun,
Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 7:14 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Cultural homogeneity


 On 1/6/02 1:08 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  I would again try to get is to consider that we have a great
 chance to use a
  strong community to anchor a new project.  Jakarta can't grow forever.
 
  When do you decide to actually step up and try to make a change?  I hope
  it's *before* the outside perception of Jakarta changes from
 that of a place
  of high-quality projects with strong communities and colorful
 characters, to
  Apache Sourceforge for Java.

 And I want to add something for the record, as I am frustrated
 and will try
 (try!) to shut up :

 This has nothing to do with the relative merits of POI.

 I am sure, given the clarity of thought and debate from Andrew, as well as
 the support from Stefano, that it will be a swell addition to the Jakarta
 fold.

 I was just using it as a platform for the topic I really want to discuss.

 --
 Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 System and Software Consulting
 Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by
 subduing the
 freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin


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RE: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache

2002-01-05 Thread Paulo Gaspar

IMO Andrew puts the finger on why POI is only used on a server.

One of my 2 interests (the other is indexing) on POI is exactly the 
typical one he describes:
 - I want to be able build Word and Excel documents on a Web Server 
   without going back to use MS IIS and COM automation.

(... even because using COM to control Word/Excel in a multithreaded
application sounds VERY problematic and all the other methods I can
think of are some other kind of PITA.)


Hey, for a client application, I would use Delphi or VB + COM in 
Windows and something around OpenOffice in Linux. 

Hey! I am just finding out how much server side POI really is!!!


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 3:07 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache
 
 
 Hi Pete,
 
 
  Me to. POI doesn't seem to have anything to do with XML and FOP is 
  essentially a renderer for a XML dialect right ?
  
  POI are codecs for reading different office formats in java. Sounds
 much more 
 
 correction:  reading and writing (I don't bother with simple readers,
 there are a hundred of those out there).  (not to be pedantic just to
 distinguish the purpose)
 
 suited to jakarta than xml ... but even then it does seem to be out of
 scope 
 - what the hell has it got to do with serverside technologies ? But
 then 
 again I have no problem with this ;) 
 
 Well POI is pretty much strictly used on serverside projects.  I've yet
 to hear from a user who is currently using this in a clientside
 application.  
 
 A typical scenario for POI's HSSF (the Excel API), for instance, would
 be for instance that you have a web application that provides a
 financial report in HTML.  Well the accounting department insists on
 having it in Excel format.  You have a few good and bad solutions, but
 POI's HSSF API (codec if you prefer) will allow you to serve the XLS
 file from your Unix server running Tomcat for instance.  You could of
 course have the opposite scenario (the accounting department uploading
 the XLS) and HSSF can help with that too.  Either way POI has NO GUI. 
 It could be used of course in a client app if you wanted, but Tomcat is
 being used by Netbeans for something or the other so go figure on what
 is strictly serverside so to speak.  
 
 Hope that clears things up  (and I hope it doesn't make you doubt that
 Tomcat is a serverside component ;-p).
 
 -Andy
 
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 
 Pete
 
 
 
 -- 
 www.superlinksoftware.com
 www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java
 http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html 
   - fix java generics!
 
 
 The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
 vote.
 -Ambassador Kosh
 
 
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RE: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @apache]

2002-01-05 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Biting the bait:

Maybe you and me are following different lists Jon.

AFAIK there is cooperation between Tomcat 3x and Tomcat 4x people.

I sure hope we will have a Tomcat 4 at least as nice to use as 3.3 is
at the moment. I am sure that most Tomcat 3.x users will upgrade as
soon as they feel confident about that being the case. It is possible
that many already did it.

Most 3.3 supporters have no emotional attachments to either the 3.3 or
the 4.x code base. Many of us just believed 3.3 was the shortest path
to a production quality Tomcat.

_Maybe_ there was more people with other interests on the 4.x side.

Either way, the main focus is on 4.x now and I do not see any ongoing 
flame wars on the Tomcat lists. Everybody wants its success.


IMO it is better to stop feeding the flaming and let it die.


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 12:37 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI
 @apache]
 
 
 on 1/5/02 3:02 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Look closely, Xerces 2 is the designated successor to *both* 
 Xerces 1 and
  Crimson.  The developers *are* working together.  I won't pretend that
  everything is 100% smooth sailing, but significant progress is 
 being made.
 
 Yea...just like Tomcat 3x and Tomcat 4x...suuueee...
 
 -jon


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RE: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI @apache]

2002-01-05 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Hi Andrew,


Before trying to organizize too much how Open Source development works,
maybe you should consider that impositions of organization and discipline
could kill the Golden Eggs Chicken.

I can not express this POV better than Linus did in posts reported by 
this article:
http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398


Any corporation organizizes things and I do not see better user 
understanding there.


Besides, there is no such thing as an Open Source external customer. 
Those that contribute to it (the authors and even noisy guys like me)
ARE the customers.

People PAY Open Source by participating. If something is wrong FIX IT!

(Ok! I confess I learned this stuff mostly from Jon.)


If you do not like an Open Source product as it is, contribute (fight)
to change it. If most of the project owners do not let you, FORK. At 
least you can learn a lot and save a lot of work.

You probably know what I am talking about since POI is Open Source.


For complex enough software, Winston Churchill's remarks about democracy
apply quite well to Open Source as we know it by rephrasing them a bit:

  Open Source is the worse form of developing complex software, except 
  all those others that have been tried.

(
The original Winston Churchill quote:
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this 
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or 
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of 
Government except all those others that have been.
)


Relax and have fun, organic growing works or we wouldn't be here!
Paulo Gaspar



 -Original Message-
 From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:01 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: On unity and coherence [was Re: [Request For Comment] POI
 @apache]
 
 
 Not that I should have much of a role in this discussion but I'd like to
 contribute some thoughts stemming from an offline discussion I had.
 
 I think this discussion is still missing the point.  There are a lot of
 outsider articles on what is wrong with Apache these days, most of
 them refer to the total disinterest (by many developers in the projects)
 on the market meaning what do the user's actually want.  I'd say this
 is a component.  (Please take this as somewhat of an outsider who has a
 lot of experience with Apache work-products)  (as a symptom of this:
 Apache is OBVIOUSLY a better Web Server, TOMCAT is obviously a better
 App server of sorts, and though not a apache project JBOSS is a great
 enterprise serverso why is IIS gaining ground despite its overall
 suckiness?)
 
 The second component is an overall lack of unity-of-purpose. 
 XML.apache.org hasn't reached a critical mass and in my opinion may
 never because it does have unity-of-purpose and I think that is part of
 why Stefano recommended I approach Jakarta first.  
 
 POI has a lot to contribute to XML.apache.org but it has a lot of stuff
 that *would* contribute more to Jakarta's purpose if it had one.  This
 isn't a slam, hear me out. 
 
 The Apache group had a unity of purpose early on.  They had a product: a
 webserver.  Everything that Apache did had something directly to do with
 that product.  Some things were semi-independent so subgroups seemed
 like the best way to handle it.  
 
 Java-Apache had this unity-of-purpose:  Java on Apache.  Well for Java
 on Apache you need a mod to handle that (since everything is a mod in
 Apache) so you get mod-jserv, of course you have a lot of things that
 roll in and out of that based on serverside components for developing
 with your java mod.  But you have unity-of-purpose. (or at least for a
 time)
 
 What is Jakarta's mission?  server side java stuff.  What is your
 product (look at the homepage)whoa thats a big list of
 subprojects...  Wait is ant a server side java tool?  Well..kinda sorta
 (build server)... what kind of server-side java stuff.
 
 XML.apache.org has a few well-defined products with the main one
 being Cocoon.  This may change slightly as the web services thing comes
 to a head (as the speaker coordinator for my JUG www.trijug.org I can
 tell you this is coming to a head) and more web-servicey things happen
 with XML rather than publishing (Cocoon) and maybe at that time there
 should be a webservices.apache.org (and webservices will expand beyond
 XML), but for the moment you've got real products and a
 unity-of-purpose.  (Which parts of POI fit well into..the cocoon 2
 serializers for instance and others do not)
 
 So what do most people (users) come to Jakarta for?  Tomcat.  Why?  Go
 to the front page.  A big rattled on list of componentsIf I don't
 know what I'm looking for suffice to say I won't find it.  If I say
 Tomcat the general IT population knows what I'm talking about.  (and
 the rest know what I mean if I say the successor to JServ)
 
 Here's my 2c worth (and unless asked its the only thing I'll contribute
 to this discussion

RE: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache

2002-01-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 3:16 PM
 
 ...

 Under the hood, I imagine that POI has more in common with things like
 FOP than things like Lucene.

I fail to understand why you assume this. Why?

I do not see POI making the generation of Word documents by FOP that 
much easier (it just takes care of a small bit of a very long path) but
I see it taking care of most of the work of indexing Word and Excel 
documents with Lucene.

Of course that maybe the Lucene guys do not want to support the indexing
of specific document formats...


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


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RE: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

In the process Hitler and his gang played a surprisingly high number of
dirty tricks. Surprising at least for a non German, since we only get
an overview of the WW2 history.

Since I work in Germany I have the benefit of the many documentaries
about the Nazi era played on TV (history is not forgotten here). I am
often quite surprised about how twisted and sophisticated some of those
tricks and strategies were.

BTW, a lot of those strategies involve scaring and distracting the
people with some fictional or real enemy.


Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Gerhard Froehlich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:59 PM

 Hi,

 skip/

 Any democratic system is imperfect and hence flawed. Hitler was elected
 democratically although he soon moved to dismantle the system that
 brought him to power. D'oh, that damn Godwin's Law!

 Nein ;), Hitler and his NSDAP gets only ~30%. He became Reichskanzler
 because the other so called democratic parties like Volkspartei and
 Socialist where so quarreled that they were unable to form a strong
 coalition to kick this asshole out and preserve my country from this
 dark 15 years.
 Therefore the current Reichspräsident Hindenburg called Hitler for the
 new Reichskanzler, because the existing Parlament was to weak. After
 his dead '35 Hitler began with the so called Gleichschaltung.

 Hitler slowly destroyed the democratic system, but he was *never* elected
 democratic!!

 skip/

   Gerhard


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RE: Code conventions

2002-01-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

I am sure Gerhard can give a better answer, but IMHO he abused a lot
the system.

The truth is that it can happen anywhere if people are not very alert
and ready to fight for their rights.

It could even happen in the USA and it is quite dangerous to think
otherwise (because then you are not alert).


Have fun,
Paulo


 -Original Message-
 From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:14 PM

 Gerhard,

 Is it fair and accurate to say that he came to power
 within the bounds and rules of a democratic system?

 At 17:58 04.01.2002 +0100, you wrote:
 Hi,
 
 skip/
 
 Any democratic system is imperfect and hence flawed. Hitler was elected
 democratically although he soon moved to dismantle the system that
 brought him to power. D'oh, that damn Godwin's Law!
 
 Nein ;), Hitler and his NSDAP gets only ~30%. He became Reichskanzler
 because the other so called democratic parties like Volkspartei and
 Socialist where so quarreled that they were unable to form a strong
 coalition to kick this asshole out and preserve my country from this
 dark 15 years.
 Therefore the current Reichspräsident Hindenburg called Hitler for the
 new Reichskanzler, because the existing Parlament was to weak. After
 his dead '35 Hitler began with the so called Gleichschaltung.
 
 Hitler slowly destroyed the democratic system, but he was *never* elected
 democratic!!
 
 skip/
 
   Gerhard


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RE: Jakarta Status [was Code conventions]

2002-01-04 Thread Paulo Gaspar

I am 100% for that.

Even because:
 - How server specific is Ant?
 - And BCEL?
 - And Log4J?
 - And ORO?
 - And Regexp?
 - And Xerces?
 - And commons collections, DBCP, Beanutils...

And I could push it a bit more.

Of course that they are useful to build server stuff... as they could be
useful to build client stuff, which is exactly what happens with POI!


I think the QUALITY distinction is much more important than the server
issue and that should probably be formalized.

For me the important arguments being presented are those going on between
Stefano and Jon - if there is enough commitment and support for it.
(IMO Stefano record looks great. It only makes it better that he knows 
how and to whom to delegate responsibilities.)


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:14 PM
 
 
 Sam Ruby wrote:
  P.S.  Food for thought: wouldn't it be nice if we could somehow 
 merge xml
  and Jakarta?  Then discussions as to where POI should go would be moot.
  Gump doesn't care about these arbitrary distinctions, why should we?
 
 The thing with XML is that core products like Xerces are cross-platform.
 I'm not sure if I'm ready for the equation 
 
 Jakarta != Java
 
 Thinking about it more carefully, I would venture to say that POI (along
 with Battick, FOP, and Xang) may belong under Jakarta. 
 
 But I'm not sure that we want to say that Jakarta != Java or XML==Java.
 
 I do think it might be helpful to drop the server stipulation from the
 Jakarta charter. I realized that we are all born of the HTTPD Apache
 server, but I think the ASF is growing past that. Jakarta should be
 about the development of open source products on the Java platform. And
 the ASF should be about promoting meritocratic development, regardless
 of what it has any ties to the Apache HTTPD.
 
 This coincides nicely with the other ASF projects, which are also based
 around given languages, like PHP. 
 
 -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
 -- Building Java web applications with Struts.
 -- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
 -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
 
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RE: cvs commit: jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/site/xdocsant.xml

2002-01-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

And this tool might help on formatting the code according to (whatever)
standards you want to follow:
http://jrefactory.sourceforge.net/cspretty.html

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

http://www.krankikom.de
http://www.ruhronline.de


 -Original Message-
 From: Erik Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:17 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: cvs commit:
 jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/site/xdocsant.xml


 Well Ted. the jokes on you...

 Have a look at ActionServlet versus this coding standard.  :))

 (no offense to anyone, this is in jest)

 Erik

 p.s. I've given CheckStyle a try... its a tough one to live with as its
 stringent, but perhaps this could be used during builds to spit out code
 standard non-compliance warnings: http://checkstyle.sourceforge.net

 - Original Message -
 From: Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 1:52 PM
 Subject: Re: cvs commit:
 jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/site/xdocsant.xml


  Atta boy, Jon!
 
  (This may be your politest, most professional message yet ;-)
 
 
  Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
  
   on 1/2/02 6:34 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
+if (runtime != null)
+depend.setAttribute(runtime, runtime.getValue());
  
   All Java Language source code in the repository must be written in
   conformance to the Code Conventions for the Java Programming Language
 as
   published by Sun.
  
   http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConventions.doc6.html#449
  
   :-)
  
   -jon
 
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RE: [Request For Comment] POI @ apache

2002-01-03 Thread Paulo Gaspar

You are right. I agree 100% with what you say here.

My remark is no argument.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:35 PM


 on 1/3/02 10:15 AM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  As Andrew remarks, it goes quite well with Lucene. It opens the door
  to interesting synergies like:
  Slide + Lucene + HTML+PDF+Word+Excel = indexed repository of the
 most popular
 document formats!
 
  Have fun,
  Paulo Gaspar

 There is no reason why those synergies can't work with a project
 that isn't
 hosted at the ASF. As long as the licenses are compatible, projects should
 work together just fine. I don't want the outside world to get
 the idea that
 the ASF refuses to work with projects that are not within the ASF. That
 would just plain suck.

 -jon


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RE: Another Comment for Apache.org

2001-12-12 Thread Paulo Gaspar

He might have used automatic translation. I recently had to read a Japanese
web page translated to English that way and it sounded just the same.

Have fun,
Paulo

 -Original Message-
 From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:06 PM


 See what you got with your flame fest? Now Frans has started making jokes!

 I must agree with Jon, this mail does not make much sense. But then, who
 cares.

 Alex.

  -Mensaje original-
  De: Frans Thamura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Enviado el: miércoles 12 de diciembre de 2001 18:21
  Para: Jakarta General List
  Asunto: Another Comment for Apache.org
 
 
   The best place to post a question like this is ..., where there are
   more people to help you.
  
 
  I like this,, very wise sentence...
 
  When we help each other, we will smarter, and life will be enjoyable..
 
  I discussed this with my friend, if the and idiot (not a
  dummies, remember
  the for dummies book), can contribute a good code to a
  project..what happen
  in the future of this book..
 
  Who will kick Bill's ass, you as a commiter or that idiot people..?
 
  Sorry this is only a joke..
 
  I join the mailing list, in last 2 years, just for add
  friendship, and i
  think i like this.. but sorry for my brain, may be i am not
  talent like all
  of you Jons..
 
  But, if you life in my country (a specialist cannot life here), as a
  technical, you will understand it..haha.. but life will go on
  my friends.
 
  Frans
 
 
  _
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
 
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RE: Comment for Apache.org

2001-12-11 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 He's busy these days, so we can all take turns proxying for
 him, with the caveat that you have to work hard on Jakarta stuff like he
 does to be a proxy.

Who are you trying to fool?
You would be never able to impersonate him!!!
=;o)

Paulo

P.S.: And I am not talking about working hard.


 -Original Message-
 From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:27 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org
 
 
 On 12/11/01 5:12 PM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are
  just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the
  Jakarta project
  
  
  Everybody could disagree with someone but the generally accepted
  rule is to stay correct with the person. There is many forums on
  the web to do run such dialogs.
  
  Better, I suggest people who want to flam Jon, to do it directly
  and leave this list a bit more quiet.
  
  The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 
 How about we set up that list, and use PayPal to collect 
 donations for some
 worthy cause (chosen by jon, of course) for people that want to publicly
 flame jon...  He's busy these days, so we can all take turns proxying for
 him, with the caveat that you have to work hard on Jakarta stuff like he
 does to be a proxy.
 
 Anyone with $$ can flame, of course.
 
 geir
 
 -- 
 Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 System and Software Consulting
 Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by 
 subduing the
 freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin
 
 
 
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RE: Comment for Apache.org

2001-12-10 Thread Paulo Gaspar

Yes, Jon could improve the package deal a lot if he wanted (just by
cutting the minus side of it) but it does not look like it is going 
to happen.

And I still prefer having him around than the alternative.

Just my 2 (Euro) cents.

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar


 -Original Message-
 From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:08 PM
 To: Jakarta General List
 Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org
 
 
 It is admittedly not a perfect universe, but I think the Jakarta
 Universe would be poorer without Jon Stevens in our midst. Some things
 are a package deal, and Jon seems to be one of them.
 
 I sometimes wonder if he is not employing reverse psychology on the rest
 of it. For example, it was Jon's flames that gave birth to the Commons
 (like a Phoenix rising from the ashes). He said that saying some of us
 weren't playing nice with others -- so we set up a playpen. 
 
 lloyd wrote:
  
   Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made 
 some logical
  
  Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you
  could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole.
  
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RE: commentary by Linus Torvalds

2001-12-06 Thread Paulo Gaspar

 Last time I talked to Eduardo (the spec lead for JSP) he still had never
 written a real webapp with it.
 
 Lemmings!

Isn't the JDK 1.4's logging API story similar?

The guys did not pay that much attention to Ceki's remarks, did they? 
And in terms of logging-in-Java, Ceki is THE authority, isn't he?
=:o/


Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:38 PM
 
 
 on 12/5/01 11:27 PM, Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  As a case in point, I would like to point out EJB CMP as an example of
  design-driven technology which may very well look really stupid in
  another few years, especially given its atrociously slow mutation rate.
  If anyone who was writing this crap (the spec) was actually *using* it,
  it would probably allow for automatic generation of freaking primary
  keys...
  
  Jeff Schnitzer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 The same can be said of JSP.
 
 Last time I talked to Eduardo (the spec lead for JSP) he still had never
 written a real webapp with it.
 
 Lemmings!
 
 -jon


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