Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Luis F. Araujo
Grant Goodyear wrote: It's interesting to compare http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/ with http://www.aaronshi.com/gentoo/mainindex.html. One of the things that I always liked about the original design was the fact that the front page held a considerable amount of information without needing much

Re: [gentoo-dev] Modular X porting: dependency changes

2005-11-22 Thread Grobian
On 21-11-2005 19:15:58 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote: | virtual/x11 isn't xorg for all profiles. Perhaps the relevant people (macos?) could get in touch with me, and we can figure out what needs to happen. It may be that we'll need to add x11-base/apple-xfree into the || list as well.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread Paul de Vrieze
On Monday 21 November 2005 12:04, Duncan wrote: * Set the base tag. I sometimes save web pages for my own use, and like them to work when I do. Adding a base href= ... tag would be very useful, here. Without it, saving just the HTML to disk breaks the page rather drastically, because it

Re: [gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread Paul de Vrieze
On Monday 21 November 2005 12:50, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 02:18:21AM -0500, Curtis Napier wrote: If you have access to a Macintosh, Windows, *BSD or any other OS or Browser please test the site and include your OS and the browser version in your feedback. I haven't

Re: [gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread Paul de Vrieze
On Monday 21 November 2005 13:07, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:18:21 -0500 Curtis Napier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm asking for everyone (developers and users alike) to please have a look at the updated site and send any feedback you may have. Firefox-1.0.7

Re: [gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread Paul de Vrieze
On Monday 21 November 2005 14:38, Alexey Chumakov wrote: Hi Curtis, First of all, thank you for the impressive new design. I really like it! Technically (@Windows XP SP2 RUS, 1024x768): Firefox 1.0.7 Rus -- OK Opera 8.5 Rus -- OK MSIE 6 Rus -- OK Some issues to discuss: 1. Why is the

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Paul de Vrieze
On Tuesday 22 November 2005 01:32, Corey Shields wrote: On Monday 21 November 2005 01:07 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote: I thought that Daniel was taking the red bubble letters. I also remember the discussion about the infinity logo way back then and the decision was made to keep it. For one,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Frozen Bacula??

2005-11-22 Thread Herbert G. Fischer
Ok, I'm going to build and test myself Bacula 1.38.1 and If you want I could help you to get this onto portage. Thanks, Herbert2005/11/21, Chris Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Herbert G. Fischer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 21 November, 2005 07:23 Hi, I'm looking forward to use

Re: [gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread Herbert G. Fischer
What?? fix for IE?? haha... Why not do the Gentoo's site with XUL? I think that doing for Safari/Konqueror, Mozilla and IE/Win is suficient, no?2005/11/22, Paul de Vrieze [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 21 November 2005 12:50, Harald van Dijk wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 02:18:21AM -0500, Curtis

Re: [gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread kang
Carsten Lohrke wrote: I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed by what I see compared to Aarons proposed look¹. Agreed! a) Regarding the space below the two horizontal menus: A continuous image looks much better than these cells with a lot of useless and redundant links above them. If

Re: [gentoo-dev] new developer Joshua Nichols (nichoj)

2005-11-22 Thread Danny van Dyk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jochen Maes schrieb: | I think he's still single as he didn't mention anything related to | females, llama's, goats etc. So some of the Gentoo crew's harem might | be safe. Harem? In CVS or SVN? Someone gimme the URL please | I'd appreciate a

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Lance Albertson
Luis F. Araujo wrote: I agree. Why we don't use that original design? , i think removing all that vertical scrolling for the front page is a good thing, and the search box looks handy too. They would need to coordinate with infra on how they would like to implement a search function. For

[gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Kurt Lieber
We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users are willing to dig for it, but not all users do. In my years of monitoring [EMAIL PROTECTED], we've received the most

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Andrea Barisani
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 02:47:45PM +, Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users are willing to dig for it, but not all users do. In my years

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Stephen P. Becker
Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users are willing to dig for it, but not all users do. In my years of monitoring [EMAIL PROTECTED], we've

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 08:09:44AM -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: Luis F. Araujo wrote: I agree. Why we don't use that original design? , i think removing all that vertical scrolling for the front page is a good thing, and the search box looks handy too. They would need to coordinate

Re: [gentoo-dev] Modular X porting: dependency changes

2005-11-22 Thread Doug Goldstein
Donnie Berkholz wrote: Joshua Baergen wrote: | If the list keeps growing maybe we should consider a GLEP 37-style | solution, like was suggested by Jason. It would allow us to make any | further changes that are required (agreed, hopefully none) without | having to change a bunch of packages

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 14:47 +, Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users are willing to dig for it, but not all users do. In my years of

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 15:37 +0100, Andrea Barisani wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 02:47:45PM +, Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 09:53 -0500, Stephen P. Becker wrote: Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users are willing to dig for it, but not all

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Marc Hildebrand
Chris Gianelloni wrote: [..] Now, on the topic of the tarballs. Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Answer: Download it in less than 10 minutes. The question of interest is: Will we keep changing things

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Henrik Brix Andersen
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:10:14AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Personally, I would like to see stage1 and stage2 go away completely. They serve no real purpose anymore after the changes we have made to the stages to include a complete /var/db before 2005.0's release. They take longer to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread solar
Now, on the topic of the tarballs. Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Stage1: Changing CHOST= and run ./bootstrap.sh (well you can do it but it's dumb) Stage3: has full cxx/berkdb/ssl/pam/libwrap and all

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Stephen P. Becker
Stage1: Changing CHOST= and run ./bootstrap.sh (well you can do it but it's dumb) You can do the same from a stage3. Stage3: has full cxx/berkdb/ssl/pam/libwrap and all the cruft pulled in from having use flags enabled thats not easy to get rid of otherwise. Fair point, however this is the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Modular X porting: dependency changes

2005-11-22 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Doug Goldstein wrote: I thought GLEP 37 was a way out kind of thing. Like several months if not a year before it can be done. I figured about the same, but https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112896#c16 begs to differ. Thanks, Donnie -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:38:34AM -0500, Stephen P. Becker wrote: I don't care what you do with the docs, but the stages 1, 3 need to stay. stage2 has always been a bonus stage more or less added into the mix cuz it's a byproduct of stage building (pre catalyst days). I don't think anyone

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 16:26 +0100, Marc Hildebrand wrote: Chris Gianelloni wrote: [..] Now, on the topic of the tarballs. Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Answer: Download it in less than 10

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 16:26 +0100, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:10:14AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Personally, I would like to see stage1 and stage2 go away completely. They serve no real purpose anymore after the changes we have made to the stages to include a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Andrea Barisani
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:14:04AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 15:37 +0100, Andrea Barisani wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 02:47:45PM +, Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Lance Albertson
Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 14:47 +, Kurt Lieber wrote: We have received *numerous* complaints from users about the decision to remove stage 1 and 2 from the installation documentation. I realize it's still available if users are willing to dig for it, but not all users

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 10:29 -0500, solar wrote: Now, on the topic of the tarballs. Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Stage1: Changing CHOST= and run ./bootstrap.sh (well you can do it but it's dumb)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Lance Albertson wrote: If you are that overworked, perhaps you should find more people to help with releng and the duties you have? I've been in a similar position as yourself where its hard to find good quality folks that stick around, and then you get used to doing everything yourself. I

Re: [gentoo-dev] new developer Joshua Nichols (nichoj)

2005-11-22 Thread Joshua Baergen
Jochen Maes wrote: Joshua, welcome! Another!? Confusion! Pandemonium! -- Joshua Baergen -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Wernfried Haas
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:48:06AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Answer: Download it in less than 10 minutes. I'd love to see you do the same with a stage1 tarball +

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Lance Albertson
Andrew Gaffney wrote: Lance Albertson wrote: If you are that overworked, perhaps you should find more people to help with releng and the duties you have? I've been in a similar position as yourself where its hard to find good quality folks that stick around, and then you get used to doing

[gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Thomas Kirchner
* On Nov 22 10:15, Chris Gianelloni (gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org) wrote: It isn't pretty much anymore. It *is* exactly the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're going to attempt to get the same result as a stage1 with a stage3 - (which won't be exactly the same, given the defaults of

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread solar
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 10:58 -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 10:29 -0500, solar wrote: Now, on the topic of the tarballs. Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Stage1: Changing

Re: [gentoo-dev] Modular X porting: dependency changes

2005-11-22 Thread Jason Stubbs
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 00:46, Donnie Berkholz wrote: Doug Goldstein wrote: I thought GLEP 37 was a way out kind of thing. Like several months if not a year before it can be done. I figured about the same, but https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112896#c16 begs to differ. The

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 09:54 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: As I am now not only the Release Engineering lead, but also the x86 Release Coordinator, I am fielding nearly 100% of these issues. I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DO OTHER PEOPLE'S QA FOR THEM. If you are that overworked, perhaps you

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 17:15 +0100, Wernfried Haas wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 10:48:06AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Give me one example of something that you can do with a stage1 or stage2 tarball that you cannot with a stage3 tarball. Answer: Download it in less than 10

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 11:19 -0500, Thomas Kirchner wrote: * On Nov 22 10:15, Chris Gianelloni (gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org) wrote: It isn't pretty much anymore. It *is* exactly the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're going to attempt to get the same result as a stage1 with a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 11:25 -0500, solar wrote: Removing the stage1 and stage2 instructions from the Handbook has already reduced the number of errors being reported by new users to me. I hope that you can arrange for either the stage1 install instructions to be put back in or split off

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Benjamin Judas
And again, we have the same situation that lead to my resignation: People who have absolutely no clue of how releng works scream. Not about BAD QA!!!11 this time, but about a decision that was made to make work easier. What is wrong with you, guys? You all have so good and enlightening ideas! Why

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Harald van Dijk
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 11:39:29AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Another Gentoo is about choice argument. Can I ask you something? Where does it say that Gentoo is about choice? I see lots of places that say that Gentoo allows you to customize, but nowhere do I see anything that says that

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Lance Albertson
Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 09:54 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: As I am now not only the Release Engineering lead, but also the x86 Release Coordinator, I am fielding nearly 100% of these issues. I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DO OTHER PEOPLE'S QA FOR THEM. If you are that

[gentoo-dev] Re: opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Duncan
Mike Frysinger posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 15:03:31 +: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 08:09:44AM -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: They would need to coordinate with infra on how they would like to implement a search function. For now, I think its best if they

Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
22.11.2005, 17:30:50, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 09:54 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: Also, the problem is not so much needing manpower for testing as far as Release Engineering is concerned. It is instead having some method in place where devs actually perform QA on

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Abhay Kedia
On Tuesday 22 Nov 2005 10:09 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote: *sigh* Another Gentoo is about choice argument. Can I ask you something? Where does it say that Gentoo is about choice? I see lots of places that say that Gentoo allows you to customize, but nowhere do I see anything that says that

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Simon Stelling
Harald van Dijk wrote: (Note that I'm not going to argue either way whether this is a good thing; I'm merely pointing out that the docs do say we're about choice.) You still can choose between stage3 and stage3+GRP without having to do anything but following the handbook :) -- Simon Stelling

[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread Duncan
Paul de Vrieze posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:20:28 +0100: On Monday 21 November 2005 12:04, Duncan wrote: * Set the base tag. I sometimes save web pages for my own use, and like them to work when I do. Adding a base href= ... tag would be very useful,

Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
22.11.2005, 18:51:12, Simon Stelling wrote: Harald van D?k wrote: (Note that I'm not going to argue either way whether this is a good thing; I'm merely pointing out that the docs do say we're about choice.) You still can choose between stage3 and stage3+GRP without having to do anything

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Stephen P. Becker
The last link should settle it for you? Can we now comfortably say that Gentoo is about choice? The other 652,998 links might reveal a few more places where we can get the choice idea from but I hope that all these links should be sufficient to give anyone this idea. Ok, fine. Gentoo is

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:47:45 + Kurt Lieber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | In my years of monitoring [EMAIL PROTECTED], we've received the most | complaints about this decision than any other single decision. How many of those complaints were from users who understood the issues involved, and how

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Danny van Dyk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thomas Kirchner schrieb: | I'm against this change, personally. Stage1 has *always* been for | advanced users. If someone screws up their own system (which is possible | in any number of other ways, as well) then it's their fault. Gentoo | isn't

Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
22.11.2005, 19:03:49, Grant Goodyear wrote: I keep hearing this, isn't there a real difference between a stage 1 and a stage 3 install inasmuch as somebody who needs (or wants) to dramatically tailor what's in the system profile can choose to do so from a stage 1 or 2, but would have to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:03:49 -0600 Grant Goodyear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I keep hearing this, isn't there a real difference between a stage 1 | and a stage 3 install inasmuch as somebody who needs (or wants) to | dramatically tailor what's in the system profile can choose to do so | from a

Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
22.11.2005, 19:13:36, Danny van Dyk wrote: Thomas Kirchner schrieb: | I'm against this change, personally. Stage1 has *always* been for | advanced users. If someone screws up their own system (which is possible | in any number of other ways, as well) then it's their fault. Gentoo | isn't

Re: [gentoo-dev] punting the use.defaults feature

2005-11-22 Thread Marius Mauch
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:06:38 +0100 Thomas de Grenier de Latour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:23:19 +0100 Spider (D.m.D. Lj.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 11:55 -0800, Michael Marineau wrote: For users who do like the functionality just properly

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Daniel Ostrow
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 12:03 -0600, Grant Goodyear wrote: Chris Gianelloni wrote: [Tue Nov 22 2005, 09:15:27AM CST] Well, if we could educate the users that stage2 tarballs are totally pointless, and that running bootstrap.sh followed by emerge -e system from a stage3 is pretty much

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 11:15 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 09:54 -0600, Lance Albertson wrote: As I am now not only the Release Engineering lead, but also the x86 Release Coordinator, I am fielding nearly 100% of these issues. I DO NOT HAVE

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Danny van Dyk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jakub Moc schrieb: | 22.11.2005, 19:13:36, Danny van Dyk wrote: | | |Thomas Kirchner schrieb: | I'm against this change, personally. Stage1 has |*always* been for | advanced users. If someone screws up their own system |(which is possible | in any

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Thomas de Grenier de Latour
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:04:53 -0500 Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or you could make it the dropdown list so people can pick bugs.gentoo.org/gentoo.org/forums.gentoo.org/whatever Exactly, that's what i would like too. More specificaly, it could be something like this:

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Abhay Kedia
On Tuesday 22 Nov 2005 11:32 pm, Stephen P. Becker wrote: Ok, fine. Gentoo is about choice. So what about developers? Don't we also have a choice? Sometimes we have to choose what is best for ourselves (note, I'm not talking about anything selfish or malicious here). Sometimes we have to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 23:10 +0530, Abhay Kedia wrote: On Tuesday 22 Nov 2005 10:09 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote: *sigh* Another Gentoo is about choice argument. Can I ask you something? Where does it say that Gentoo is about choice? I see lots of places that say that Gentoo allows you

Re: [gentoo-dev] punting the use.defaults feature

2005-11-22 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 07:22:42PM +0100, Marius Mauch wrote: Personally I'd just kill auto-use support in the next big portage upgrade (and USE_ORDER with it as disabling auto-use is the only real application of it that I'm aware of). works for me -mike -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Grant Goodyear
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: [Tue Nov 22 2005, 12:17:47PM CST] On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:03:49 -0600 Grant Goodyear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I keep hearing this, isn't there a real difference between a stage 1 | and a stage 3 install inasmuch as somebody who needs (or wants) to | dramatically tailor

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 12:03 -0600, Grant Goodyear wrote: Chris Gianelloni wrote: [Tue Nov 22 2005, 09:15:27AM CST] Well, if we could educate the users that stage2 tarballs are totally pointless, and that running bootstrap.sh followed by emerge -e system from a stage3 is pretty much

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Wernfried Haas
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 11:33:04AM -0500, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Just because you downloaded them previously does not mean you didn't download them. Yes, but i already have them and don't need to download them any more in this scenario. Btw, if i use stage 3 and then emerge -e world to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Abhay Kedia
On Wednesday 23 Nov 2005 12:29 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote: As I stated before, you're more than able to take a stage3 tarball + catalyst + the example catalyst spec files and build your own stage1 tarball. In fact, this is the exact same procedure that Release Engineering uses in building

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Grant Goodyear
Chris Gianelloni wrote: [Tue Nov 22 2005, 01:06:03PM CST] Who said that removing something isn't a part of the procedure to get an identical build? Yeah, my phrasing was lousy (which I noted in another e-mail, but I doubt you had time to see it before replying to this one). The point is that

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 13:28 -0600, Grant Goodyear wrote: The point is that following the proper steps, one *can* get the exact same output. This would include using --newuse and cleaning out unused packages, along with any other maintenance items that would be required. That's fine with

Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
22.11.2005, 20:57:15, Chris Gianelloni wrote: The idea was to move out the stage1/stage2 docs to somewhere else. Then create some sort of Advanced Installation Topics guide or something, to list out the replacement procedures for customizing a system from a stage3 tarball, then, eventually,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Alexey Chumakov
Jakub Moc пишет: 22.11.2005, 20:57:15, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Really, everybody is just up in arms over a knee-jerk reaction to not reading carefully. What it boils down to is either not knowing the facts, or trolling/flaming. Why exactly is evaporating stage1 an ultimate goal here

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Alec Joseph Warner
Jakub Moc wrote: 22.11.2005, 20:57:15, Chris Gianelloni wrote: The idea was to move out the stage1/stage2 docs to somewhere else. Then create some sort of Advanced Installation Topics guide or something, to list out the replacement procedures for customizing a system from a stage3 tarball,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Henrik Brix Andersen
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 05:56:52PM +0100, Benjamin Judas wrote: Also, why a GLEP for that? A GLEP for removing something from the handbook? Wow! Bureaucracy-wise Gentoo seems to get more and more european. You mean more and more American? ;) ./Brix -- Henrik Brix Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Re[2]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 21:16 +0100, Jakub Moc wrote: 22.11.2005, 20:57:15, Chris Gianelloni wrote: The idea was to move out the stage1/stage2 docs to somewhere else. Then create some sort of Advanced Installation Topics guide or something, to list out the replacement procedures for

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 23:28 +0300, Alexey Chumakov wrote: Before I insert my own word -- could somebody tell me, how and by whom was the initial decision to eliminate the stage1 from mainstream made? As I said before, it was made by and requested by me, after discussion with Release

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 15:42 -0500, Alec Joseph Warner wrote: I'd point out that this was not well executed as a major change should have been. We talked of major package changes, apache config changes, of package breakage. Then one day you up and remove what some consider a vital part of

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Sven Vermeulen
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 03:53:22AM +0100, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the query terms). [...] Two major obstacles are - Google bases its search

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Mike Frysinger
On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 06:51:44PM +0100, Sven Vermeulen wrote: On Tue, Nov 22, 2005 at 03:53:22AM +0100, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the

Re[4]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
22.11.2005, 21:58:50, Chris Gianelloni wrote: That FAQ section has nothing in common with the original stage1 docs. Sorry, installing stage3 to remove all the use flags cruft subsequently, bootstrap and re-emerge the system and then ponder which packages are not needed any more (again,

Re: [gentoo-dev] new developer Joshua Nichols (nichoj)

2005-11-22 Thread Petteri Räty
Jochen Maes wrote: Hello all, I'd appreciate a nice welcome and a descent slap on the butt when you pass him... Joshua, welcome! http://tinyurl.com/n9qb I hope to see this list near hundred soon! Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] opinion on how to improve the website redesign

2005-11-22 Thread Thomas de Grenier de Latour
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:51:44 +0100 Sven Vermeulen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A good start could be to do that the quick and ugly way, thanks to Google (with some site:www.gentoo.org/some/thing/ and other black magic in the query terms). [...] - Google bases its search functionality on cached

Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain

2005-11-22 Thread Marius Mauch
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:09:57 -0800 Corey Shields [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (apologies for the messed up time in my last message) On Friday 18 November 2005 06:53 pm, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: We've seen why this won't work in the past... Too few users know how to do proper testing. We've had

Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain

2005-11-22 Thread Marius Mauch
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:32:55 +1100 Ben Skeggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, the most important reason for the GLEP (IMO) is giving AT's r/o access to CVS. When working on bugs, it's always fun to find out that the problem has already been resolved and just hasn't made it to your local

Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain

2005-11-22 Thread Marius Mauch
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:19:17 +0100 Paul de Vrieze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 18 November 2005 18:09, Homer Parker wrote: Now that GLEP 41 (AT/HT) has passed, we need to designate a subdomain for their email. This will cover AT/HT's as well as forum help, so needs to be generic.

Re: Re[4]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Chris Gianelloni
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 22:36 +0100, Jakub Moc wrote: 22.11.2005, 21:58:50, Chris Gianelloni wrote: That FAQ section has nothing in common with the original stage1 docs. Sorry, installing stage3 to remove all the use flags cruft subsequently, bootstrap and re-emerge the system and then

Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain

2005-11-22 Thread Lance Albertson
Marius Mauch wrote: On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:32:55 +1100 Ben Skeggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, the most important reason for the GLEP (IMO) is giving AT's r/o access to CVS. When working on bugs, it's always fun to find out that the problem has already been resolved and just hasn't made

Re: [gentoo-dev] Email subdomain

2005-11-22 Thread Danny van Dyk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Corey Shields schrieb: || Ahh, ok thanks for clearing that up. || || Still screwed up. Lesson learned, make friends with a majority || of the council, write and propose a glep the day before || a meeting and then push it through. wow. sounds ||

Re[6]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Jakub Moc
23.11.2005, 0:26:03, Chris Gianelloni wrote: However, Gentoo still provides stage1 and stage2 tarballs. This is for development purposes (the Release Engineering team starts from a stage1 tarball to obtain a stage3) but shouldn't be used by users: a stage3 tarball can very well be used to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Donnie Berkholz
Jakub Moc wrote: *Now* I hope I've finally been sarcastic enough to justify the incredibly pissed-off tone you've shown in your previous reply. I've not exactly seen any flames or name calling here, and I'm not the one to blame for the fact that you're feeling overloaded. Jump back in when you

Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation

2005-11-22 Thread Mark Loeser
Jakub Moc [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: You can do whatever you like. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. That being said, you are not going to force *me* to do anything, either. Hmm, have I missed an argument here? Actually, the above is incorrect. You *are* forcing me to use stage3, but

Re: [gentoo-dev] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org

2005-11-22 Thread George Prowse
Is it possible to have the font from the original Aaron Shi design? George -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread Luis F. Araujo
Hello everyone, A few days ago i glanced over package.mask , and i was surprised about how many non-existent ebuild/packages entries are there. So, i wrote a script to try to get a list of those orphaned entries, and it looks like there are more than 400 packages/ebuilds which are still listed

Re: [gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread warnera6
Luis F. Araujo wrote: Hello everyone, A few days ago i glanced over package.mask , and i was surprised about how many non-existent ebuild/packages entries are there. So, i wrote a script to try to get a list of those orphaned entries, and it looks like there are more than 400 packages/ebuilds

Re: [gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread Marcus D. Hanwell
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 02:18, Luis F. Araujo wrote: Hello everyone, A few days ago i glanced over package.mask , and i was surprised about how many non-existent ebuild/packages entries are there. So, i wrote a script to try to get a list of those orphaned entries, and it looks like

Re: [gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread Luis F. Araujo
Marcus D. Hanwell wrote: On Wednesday 23 November 2005 02:18, Luis F. Araujo wrote: Hello everyone, A few days ago i glanced over package.mask , and i was surprised about how many non-existent ebuild/packages entries are there. So, i wrote a script to try to get a list of those orphaned

Re: [gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread Donnie Berkholz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Luis F. Araujo wrote: | So, i wrote a script to try to get a list of those orphaned entries, | and it looks like there are more than 400 packages/ebuilds which are still | listed in p.m but that don't exist in the tree anymore. | (A bunch of them

Re: [gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread Marius Mauch
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:18:26 -0400 Luis F. Araujo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, i wrote a script to try to get a list of those orphaned entries, and it looks like there are more than 400 packages/ebuilds which are still listed in p.m but that don't exist in the tree anymore. (A bunch of them

Re: [gentoo-dev] Around 425 non-existent packages in p.mask?

2005-11-22 Thread Tuan Van
Luis F. Araujo wrote: Hello everyone, A few days ago i glanced over package.mask , and i was surprised about how many non-existent ebuild/packages entries are there. please adjust your script. =cat/foo-1.2 is valid even though foo-1.2 is no longer in the tree. I looked at the top 4 line in

  1   2   >