Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:54:35 -0400, "Christopher Curtis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/27/06, Raphaël Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is a different issue from what was discussed here. You can toggle > > between moving layers, selection masks or paths by using the modifiers: > > Ctrl or Alt (this will soon be indicated in the status bar). I don't > > How will this be indicated? Is it via 'discovery mode' or 'explicit mode'? A bit of both... The status bar messages explain what operations will be performed with the current combination of modifers and in addition they suggest to try to other ones. There would not be enough room in the status bar to explain what each modifier does, except when the messages are really short. In addition to the status bar messages, you also have the tool options indicating what each modifier will do. Although this is not done yet by all tools (due among other things to the limitations of the API that generates a list of options from enums), you can see that some tools mention Shift, Ctrl or Alt next to some options that can be toggled. So this gives you the "explicit mode" to some extent. > [...] The [Alt] selections are very confusing, too. [Alt]-drag > moved the window (KDE grabs it); Some window managers do grab the Alt modifier. This is why GIMP does not use Alt for anything important. All actions that can be performed in GIMP using the Alt modifier can also be performed in some other way. Besides, window managers should not grab Alt by default. They should use the "Windows" key instead of the "Alt" key if it is present on the keyboard. The vast majority of keyboards available today do have such a key, even on laptops. Some keyboards replace it with a penguin key, but the behavior is the same. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On 10/4/06, Christopher Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: These are the 2.2.13 options. I have to say I don't see a differencebetween 'pick' and 'move' for the normal/shifted case but I didn't tryMove moves the current item; pick moves the item that it thinks you're clicking on. In 2.3.x, the tool options indicate this clearly.Does this seem like a valid use of the toolbox option pane? Too much has changed since 2.2 . I recommend you try a 2.3.x version, your comments on that would be more relevant. The main comment from your mail that does apply is '[Alt]-drag moved the window (KDE grabs it)' -- however, in 2.3.x, you can use [Alt-Shift]-drag OK, so it could be improved but it's also easy to work around. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On 9/27/06, Raphaël Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is a different issue from what was discussed here. You can toggle between moving layers, selection masks or paths by using the modifiers: Ctrl or Alt (this will soon be indicated in the status bar). I don't How will this be indicated? Is it via 'discovery mode' or 'explicit mode'? Discovery mode = Press shift, the description changes. Explicit mode = At the bottom of the toolbox (or in a tooltip, or ...) a guide: [Move] = Pick Layer/Guide [Shift] = Move Layer/Guide [Ctrl] = Pick Path [Ctrl][Shift] = Move Path [Alt] = Move Selection [Alt][Shift] = Move Selection (again?) These are the 2.2.13 options. I have to say I don't see a difference between 'pick' and 'move' for the normal/shifted case but I didn't try too hard. The [Alt] selections are very confusing, too. [Alt]-drag moved the window (KDE grabs it); [Alt][Shift]-drag picks "the other move" but the mouse cursor looks like a "ø". And [Shift][Alt]-drag shows "move layer" in the tool menu but drags an outline that doesn't affect the image if the entire image is masked, then returns to the [Alt][Shift] tool options; while if the mask is not present behaves like a regular move and returns to the [Alt][Shift] tool options with the mouse cursor now a "ø". Hmm. Selection/Quickmask confuses me. Things that operate on selections have icons that look like quickmasks. Anyway ... The 'scale' tool has the largest toolbar options area (2.2.13). With the toolbar maximized on my 1280x1024 screen, there's lots of blank space on the bottom where the shift-modifiers can be explicitly enumerated (it looks like they already are in this case, but a uniformity would be good). I'm not positive, but this could also be helpful for informing the user of "pre-use" and "during-use" modifiers, like the wacky select add/remove/square/center/move tools. I'm thinking of something that just looks like the list I have above, but with widgets for the [shift] keys, bottom aligned to the toolbox. Alternately, they could be in a giant tooltip, but this would prevent showing the 'during-use' modifiers. Does this seem like a valid use of the toolbox option pane? Chris ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:32:33 +0200, saulgoode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A google of "CAD translations and transformations" will readily display how the two operations are commonly paired. Perhaps a better question to ask would be what graphics programs *don't* associate these operations? Be careful not to prejudice that answer with the question you ask. Gimp is not CAD. CAD users will be architechs and engineers and probably see things in a more mathematical way like most of us here do. If you do the search you suggest you are not likely to find links saying these two are unrelated. The fact you use "translations" rather than "move" will also bias what you find. Your background is unconsciously affecting the question and hence the answer. It is a basic technique of market researcher and opinion polls. Word the question in such a way as to get the replies your client wants. Perhaps a better question to ask would be what graphics programs *don't* associate these operations? Yes, a quick look at PS and PSP for a start. Bills idea of some more serious user research is good, though there's the same danger of prejudicing the result if you're not careful. You'd have to explain the function of each tool without any reference to Gimp since asking the user test each tool and classify it will necessarily implant an association in his mind. A quick scan of other software would be a good starting point to see if Gimp does some of this better or worse and pick up a few ideas. I read somewhere of a technique of studying UI design with imaginary stereotype users with a specific, typical task to do. Then looking at the steps they would have to go through and imagine how they would likely go about it. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On 9/28/06, Michael Natterer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 21:48 +0930, David Gowers wrote:> On 9/28/06, saulgoode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Regarding the current user interface (in CVS), I fail to see > any logic> in having the selection tools possessing the ability to move> selection> contents, it is much simpler and more intuitive if they limit> themselves > to selecting regions and not engage in modifying drawables.>> I agree completely.In Current CVS, you have to press alt+shift or alt+control to actuallymove the pixels with a selection tool. Nobody does that accidentially, and it's a powerful tool for power users. I see no reason to remove it.That is definitely a great feature, and I understand why it can't be assigned to a single key. I think it still needs to be made more accessible (personally I'd rate it as more important than being able to intersect the selection with the old selection; however it's less obvious than the intersect function) Looks like I've comprehensively misunderstood what saulgoode was trying to say. -- Sorry, saulgoode. > Either you are misunderstanding what is actually there, or your build> is messed up.> Try rebuilding from scratch, and then checking your assertion above.Well, should we simply hide these options when they make no sense? It's IMHO better to change the text to something that's actuallyhappening and make them insensitive. That's the whole reasoningbehind that.What I meant here is that the only circumstances in which the 'affect selection' option of the Move tool is greyed out is when there is no image open, and that there is exactly one instance of it, not two. Oh, wait.. I see what saulgoode meant now. I think that it could be improved (the second radio option could be N/A and selecting 'affect selection' would force the radio selection to the first option (and set the radio group insensitive, as before)) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 21:48 +0930, David Gowers wrote: > On 9/28/06, saulgoode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Regarding the current user interface (in CVS), I fail to see > any logic > in having the selection tools possessing the ability to move > selection > contents, it is much simpler and more intuitive if they limit > themselves > to selecting regions and not engage in modifying drawables. > > I agree completely. In Current CVS, you have to press alt+shift or alt+control to actually move the pixels with a selection tool. Nobody does that accidentially, and it's a powerful tool for power users. I see no reason to remove it. > A minor related note: the Affect Selection option of the Move > Tool > displays two identical "Move Selection" options, both of which > are > always(?) grayed out. > > Either you are misunderstanding what is actually there, or your build > is messed up. > Try rebuilding from scratch, and then checking your assertion above. Well, should we simply hide these options when they make no sense? It's IMHO better to change the text to something that's actually happening and make them insensitive. That's the whole reasoning behind that. ciao, --mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 14:11 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:48:29 +0200, Michael Natterer > > Aha... so which of the tools under "Transform Tool" is not doing > > a transform? I don't see any that wouldn't perfectly fit into > > the category. > > > > ciao, > > --mitch > > > > > > Mitch, please look back over the thread. > >As quick reply because I'm repeating what has already been said, I > don't > think moving a selection a bit to one side would seen as a > "transforming" > it by someone who did not have a maths background. It's an example of > a > broader issue. I did read the thread, and moving *is* transforming. Yes mathematically and correctly. Making it a non-transform tool UI-wise makes no sense to me whatsoever. What else should it be then? And what broader issue are you talking about? ciao, --mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On 9/28/06, saulgoode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Regarding the current user interface (in CVS), I fail to see any logicin having the selection tools possessing the ability to move selectioncontents, it is much simpler and more intuitive if they limit themselves to selecting regions and not engage in modifying drawables.I agree completely. A minor related note: the Affect Selection option of the Move Tooldisplays two identical "Move Selection" options, both of which arealways(?) grayed out.Either you are misunderstanding what is actually there, or your build is messed up. Try rebuilding from scratch, and then checking your assertion above. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: *** PROBABLY SPAM *** Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:48:29 +0200, Michael Natterer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 02:13 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're agreed about how this tool should operate but I'd still like to review how some of these items are classed as transformations. I don't think that makes sense to the user. I covered that in a reply to Sven. Aha... so which of the tools under "Transform Tool" is not doing a transform? I don't see any that wouldn't perfectly fit into the category. ciao, --mitch Mitch, please look back over the thread. As quick reply because I'm repeating what has already been said, I don't think moving a selection a bit to one side would seen as a "transforming" it by someone who did not have a maths background. It's an example of a broader issue. cheers. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 02:13 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > We're agreed about how this tool should operate but I'd still like to > review how some of these items are classed as transformations. I dont > think that makes sense to the user. I covered that in a reply to Sven. Aha... so which of the tools under "Transform Tool" is not doing a transform? I don't see any that wouldn't prefectly fit into the catrgory. ciao, --mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
While "moves" might not be considered to be within the category of Transformations, they are commonly associated with them. A google of "CAD translations and transformations" will readily display how the two operations are commonly paired. Perhaps a better question to ask would be what graphics programs *don't* associate these operations? Regarding the current user interface (in CVS), I fail to see any logic in having the selection tools possessing the ability to move selection contents, it is much simpler and more intuitive if they limit themselves to selecting regions and not engage in modifying drawables. A minor related note: the Affect Selection option of the Move Tool displays two identical "Move Selection" options, both of which are always(?) grayed out. I understand the tools are under development and am not complaining; the work being done is most excellent and I look forward to the time these usability issues are resolved. -- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
Hi, On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 02:13 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > We're agreed about how this tool should operate but I'd still like to > review how some of these items are classed as transformations. I dont > think that makes sense to the user. Well, we can't really decide that without doing some usability research. We aren't users, so we can't create categories in a way that makes sense to the users. This would probably be a nice task for card sorting. Make a pile of cards with tool names (and perhaps tool icons) on them and ask a number of selected users to sort them into a bunch of piles. You could predefine categories or you could ask the users to come up with their own categories. There are standard protocols for analyzying the results. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:52:56 +0200, William Skaggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The user makes a selection then picks the move tool to move it. "The fool!" you cry. Well what do you expect him to do? That seems like a perfectly logical way to do it and I would bet you 9/10 new users will do exactly that. Wow, I must have explained it really badly, because I was trying to say exactly what you just said. :-) -- Bill LOL, in that case "I'm with Bill all the way on this." ;) We're agreed about how this tool should operate but I'd still like to review how some of these items are classed as transformations. I dont think that makes sense to the user. I covered that in a reply to Sven. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
From: Rapha�l Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >As a side note, it would be nice if the rectangle and ellipse >selection tools (not the base rectangle tool) would take Alt into >account before the selection is confirmed and behave as if the >selection had been confirmed: Alt = move selection mask, Alt+Ctrl = >move selected pixels, Alt+Shift = copy selected pixels. It should >not be necessary to press Enter before being able to move it. Well, that's a bug, then. The objective for Rectangle Select is that you should be able to do anything with the selection while it remains modifiable that you would be able to do after turning it into a fixed selection. To the extent that you can't, it's a bug. In this case the tool simply is not handling the Alt modifier correctly -- thanks for pointing it out, and I hope I can remember it long enough to get around to fixing it. -- Bill __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
>> Bill, to you it *is* a transform tool because you are close to the code >> and you know the way is it implemented. To the user it *is not* a >> transform tool. It's just a tool off the palette like any other that is >> called "Move" and that carries the hint "move layers, selections and other >> objects". > >It's not even a transform tool from the code point of view. It has just >been sorted into the Transform tools category since that seemed to >describe it best. > > >Sven Well, I was quite aware that it is different from a code point of view -- what I was trying to say is that it feels like a transform tool from a *functional* point of view. Moving feels to me like it should group logically with operations like Rotating and Flipping. After all, isn't Rotating just a freer kind of Moving? This may just be my math background coming through, but that's the way it feels intuitively to me that it ought to be grouped. -- Bill __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 00:10:16 +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 00:04 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, I was led to thinking it was by Bills comment and did not bother checking the source. My point is, moving a selection is probably not transforming it in the mind of the user. Shear , perspective , mirror , flip would seem to fit as transformations. cut, paste, move, copy, I would see at edit functions. There are probably grey areas as with most things but I think it would be good to take a step back and review the UI. It's easy to be too close to thing as they evolve and not see some of the defects. Sure, don't take anything in the user interface as set in stone. There's nothing that couldn't be changed. But it is also important to see the big picture and it is very easy to jump to quick conclusions when it comes to user interface design. BTW, you probably meant to send this to the mailing-list. Sven Indeed I did , thx. There's nothing that couldn't be changed. But it is also important to see the big picture and it is very easy to jump to quick conclusions when it comes to user interface design. Oh fer sure. I dont expect to look at this and come up with all the right answers but I have a few overall impressions and some specifics that may be worth looking at. 1/ In general I find it needs too many mouse/keyboard actions to achieve a simple operation. 1a/ specific: undo : edit | undo . This must be one of the most common actions I want a one click solution, in the same window as I am editting in. There's always cntl-Z cntl-Y but that means dropping the mouse and diverting my attention away fron the screen. Very slow. 1b/ I pull up a dlg. the first text entry is highlighted so I can type to replace , fine. But if I want to edit it eg 100 to 400, I go to select the "1" with the mouse and the editted text gets dragged. Huh? So I have to click to deselect the reselect the bit I want. 2/ I am continually repeating the same placement/configuration operations where once should be enough. 2a/ It seems none of the filters retain thier position and size, although they retains _some_ of their settings. specific: Filters | Motion Blur ... I resize to get a more visible preview size and move it out of the way of other things on the screen. Next time I use it I dont want to start again. While this is probably down to the plugin writer, at least the "common" filters should be vetted/modded to retain size/pos before being integrated. And it should be recommended for all plug-ins. 2b/ If I use a dlg on one image and set, say units to pixels , if I open another image or even duplicate I have to reset the same options. specific: Image | Scale Image , set to percent . Duplicate image , Scale Image : back to default pixels. 2c/ I have select for tools to store settings but this seems limitted. specific: again the Scale Image dlg. units combo. This is held for the time I edit an image but not affected by the config option :tools store settings. 2d/ I set a value , eg rotation degrees or scale percent. Next time I pull up the dlg it's back to NOP settings : zero degrees or 100% scaling. Now I dont necessarily want the same value but one thing it's sure I dont need is a NOP. Last entered value would be a better starting point. All these are minor things on their own but the overall effect is _several times_ more mouse actions than are really needed to get a job done. There's lots of things it does well too, but no sense in opening bugs and threads here to comment on what does not need fixing ;) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:34:13 +0200, Raphaël Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If you are using a development version, it is likely that your toolrc has not been updated since a while. I recommend that you just delete it and restart GIMP. Just rm ~/.gimp-2.3/toolrc. -Raphaël thanks , that got it. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
Hi, On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 23:21 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Bill, to you it *is* a transform tool because you are close to the code > and you know the way is it implemented. To the user it *is not* a > transform tool. It's just a tool off the palette like any other that is > called "Move" and that carries the hint "move layers, selections and other > objects". It's not even a transform tool from the code point of view. It has just been sorted into the Transform tools category since that seemed to describe it best. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:21:04 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > You might see it as a lateral translation effected by simple transform > matrix multiplication. The user just wants to move a bit to one side. You probably misunderstood Bill. This is exactly what he meant by saying that the Move tool should behave like other transform tools: it should move the selected pixels when there is a selection (instead of moving the whole layer as it does now). > BTW How do I move a rectangular selection ?! I don't mean move the > selection outline, how do I move the part of the image selected? Well, this is what I described in my message. With GIMP 2.2.x, you move the selected pixels by just dragging them. With GIMP 2.3.x, you currently have to first press Enter to confirm the selection (if you are using the rectangle or ellipse selection tools), then press Ctrl+Alt while dragging the pixels, or Shift+Alt if you want to copy the pixels instead of moving them. Easy, isn't it? > And while we're here , why is the rect selection tool not on the palette > with the ellipse and free-style tools, do I really have to go off to Tools > | Selection Tools | Rectangle ? If you are using a development version, it is likely that your toolrc has not been updated since a while. I recommend that you just delete it and restart GIMP. Just rm ~/.gimp-2.3/toolrc. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:14:38 +0200, William Skaggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It seems that for consistency the Move tool should act like a transform tool --- because after all, it *is* a transform tool. That is, if there is a selection, it should move the contents of the selection, otherwise it should move the layer. -- Bill I pick up on this because I think it illustrates very well a major short-coming in the user interface of the GIMP. It is developer-centric not user-centric. Bill, to you it *is* a transform tool because you are close to the code and you know the way is it implemented. To the user it *is not* a transform tool. It's just a tool off the palette like any other that is called "Move" and that carries the hint "move layers, selections and other objects". The user makes a selection then picks the move tool to move it. "The fool!" you cry. Well what do you expect him to do? That seems like a perfectly logical way to do it and I would bet you 9/10 new users will do exactly that. You might see it as a lateral translation effected by simple transform matrix multiplication. The user just wants to move a bit to one side. I think this larger issue needs looking at from the top down. Gimp has gradually built up around the code. The USER interface now needs to be reorganised from a user (task oriented) point of view. I had already thought of opening a bug on this point. Many thanks to Raphaël for bringing it up. BTW How do I move a rectangular selection ?! I don't mean move the selection outline, how do I move the part of the image selected? And while we're here , why is the rect selection tool not on the palette with the ellipse and free-style tools, do I really have to go off to Tools | Selection Tools | Rectangle ? ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:39:40 +0200, Raphaël Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: it would be nice if the rectangle and ellipse selection tools (not the base rectangle tool) would take Alt into account before the selection is confirmed and behave as if the selection had been confirmed: Alt = move selection mask, Alt+Ctrl = move selected pixels, Alt+Shift = copy selected pixels. It should not be necessary to press Enter before being able to move it. What ? I have to "confirm" a selection? (sometimes?) , Cntl-Alt what? Hey this is seriously confused as well as confusing. This is a classic case of bottom up design. What's the best way run a reveiw the situation? ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:42:38 -0700, Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:01:29PM +0200, Rapha?l Quinet wrote: > > So I am wondering... What should be the behavior of the Move tool > > when a selection exists? Wouldn't it be good to have the ability to > > move the selected pixels (and create a floating selection) instead of > > moving the whole layer? [...] > > i am trying to think of a case where i have a selection and i am trying > to move a path and i cannot come up with one. This is a different issue from what was discussed here. You can toggle between moving layers, selection masks or paths by using the modifiers: Ctrl or Alt (this will soon be indicated in the status bar). I don't think that this behavior should be changed. This proposal was about a different thing, which is that the Move tool should be able to move the selected pixels, not just whole layers or selection masks (masks, not contents) or paths. And it should do that by default like the other transform tools (see also Bill's message). -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:01:29PM +0200, Rapha?l Quinet wrote: > > So I am wondering... What should be the behavior of the Move tool > when a selection exists? Wouldn't it be good to have the ability to > move the selected pixels (and create a floating selection) instead of > moving the whole layer? This could be optional (new checkbox in the > tool options) because sometimes it is also useful to move the whole > layer while keeping the selection intact. But I guess that it would > be better to have the new option active by default. > i am trying to think of a case where i have a selection and i am trying to move a path and i cannot come up with one. i have had problems where i wanted the tool to move either a selection or a path and it was set to move layers. the little bit of frustration is not worth it to me to change the behavior of the tool for. Edit/Undo is always there for these things without complicating the gui even more in the name of simplicity. just my opinion, carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:14:38 -0700, "William Skaggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It seems that for consistency the Move tool should act like a > transform tool --- because after all, it *is* a transform tool. > That is, if there is a selection, it should move the contents > of the selection, otherwise it should move the layer. Yes, this is why I suggested that this behavior should be the default one for the Move tool. However, I understand that some people might want to be able to move a whole layer even if a selection exists, which is why I suggested to allow this to be toggled. As a side note, it would be nice if the rectangle and ellipse selection tools (not the base rectangle tool) would take Alt into account before the selection is confirmed and behave as if the selection had been confirmed: Alt = move selection mask, Alt+Ctrl = move selected pixels, Alt+Shift = copy selected pixels. It should not be necessary to press Enter before being able to move it. -Raphaël ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Moving selection contents with the move tool?
It seems that for consistency the Move tool should act like a transform tool --- because after all, it *is* a transform tool. That is, if there is a selection, it should move the contents of the selection, otherwise it should move the layer. -- Bill __ __ __ __ Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
