Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Sven wrote: > peter sikking wrote: >> there we could tighten up things, yeah. but I fear the fixes may have >> to be in gtk. minimising all image windows, or the no-image-window, >> should minimise the whole app, meaning the toolbox and inspectors >> get hidden. > > That could easily be done in GIMP. At least I think that it should be > easy to implement that. Do you suggest that we try to do that for 2.8? I humbly suggest that if there is no UI/string change involved, we 'get that right' for 2.6.2. also collect some feedback for linux/win/mac on the window manager hint settings and adapt the defaults from that. ...or at least a page on gimp.org with recommended settings for funny window managers. --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 18:10 +0200, peter sikking wrote: > there we could tighten up things, yeah. but I fear the fixes may have > to be in gtk. minimising all image windows, or the no-image-window, > should minimise the whole app, meaning the toolbox and inspectors > get hidden. That could easily be done in GIMP. At least I think that it should be easy to implement that. Do you suggest that we try to do that for 2.8? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Peter, After I wrote the message I decided to take a look at the UI wiki and what I found there is basically what I was thinking could be improved in the UI. It finally sank that it's just too early to see everything solved. Heck the analysis stage isn't complete yet and here I am complaining about a stupid thing. Anyway. I began to use the program more and I came to appreciate a lot of small tweaks, like the better brush dynamics and even the wilber area in the toolbox, although I still think we can do better. Sorry for the complaints. As I said, I got frustrated because I am the only advocate for free software at work and GIMP is against a program that's so mature, it's really difficult to make a case, even pointing out it's unique capabilities. My apologies again. Now I see that we couldn't ask for a better UI team. Best regards, Flávio. Em Dom, 2008-10-05 às 18:10 +0200, peter sikking escreveu: > Flávio Pontes wrote: > > > The real problem are all the inconsistencies that have gone into a > > STABLE release. A release that was supposed to solve a lot of UI > > problems, but looks like an alpha quality release from the UI > > viewpoint. > > 2.6 was to be a gegl-under-the-hood-only version, but we did some > UI renovation as well. > > > The most glaring example I can see right now is the supposed > > transformation of the Toolbox and the dockable dialogs in utility > > windows. It actually makes the situation worse. Now, if I minimize > > the "main" window, I can't minimize the other ones. Isn't it great? > > I really hope it's a bug[...] > > there we could tighten up things, yeah. but I fear the fixes may have > to be in gtk. minimising all image windows, or the no-image-window, > should minimise the whole app, meaning the toolbox and inspectors > get hidden. > > then there are a couple of dozen window managers out there that do not > implements the display hints as recommended... > > anyway, UI changes always provoke reaction(ary uproar). that is why > I'll give it a month to see if it still hurts then. meanwhile I will > take all this energy to see if we can do even better than this. > > with regards to horizontal toolbox layouts (the GIMP UI team says: > vertical works definitely better, btw...), if we can find out that > there are only 1 or 2 rows of icons in the toolbox, we could hide wilber > automatically for these cases. > > --ps > > founder + principal interaction architect > man + machine interface works > > http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture > > > ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Flávio Pontes wrote: > The real problem are all the inconsistencies that have gone into a > STABLE release. A release that was supposed to solve a lot of UI > problems, but looks like an alpha quality release from the UI > viewpoint. 2.6 was to be a gegl-under-the-hood-only version, but we did some UI renovation as well. > The most glaring example I can see right now is the supposed > transformation of the Toolbox and the dockable dialogs in utility > windows. It actually makes the situation worse. Now, if I minimize > the "main" window, I can't minimize the other ones. Isn't it great? > I really hope it's a bug[...] there we could tighten up things, yeah. but I fear the fixes may have to be in gtk. minimising all image windows, or the no-image-window, should minimise the whole app, meaning the toolbox and inspectors get hidden. then there are a couple of dozen window managers out there that do not implements the display hints as recommended... anyway, UI changes always provoke reaction(ary uproar). that is why I'll give it a month to see if it still hurts then. meanwhile I will take all this energy to see if we can do even better than this. with regards to horizontal toolbox layouts (the GIMP UI team says: vertical works definitely better, btw...), if we can find out that there are only 1 or 2 rows of icons in the toolbox, we could hide wilber automatically for these cases. --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
gt; > > run-mode INT32 Interactive, non-interactive > > > image IMAGE Input image > > > drawable DRAWABLE Input drawable (must be a > > layer) > > > filename STRING Name of a GIMP curves file > > (saved by the Curves > > > Tool) > > > > > > Return Values > > > > > > the-drawable DRAWABLE the processed layer > > > > > > Additional Information > > > > > > This Plugin loads a # GIMP Curves File, that was > > saved by > > > the GIMP 2.0pre1 Curves Tool then calculates the > > curves > > > (256 points foreach channel val,r,g,b,a) and calls > > the > > > Curve Tool via PDB interface with the calculated > > curve > > > points It also stores the points, and offers a > > > GIMP_RUN_WITH_LAST_VALUES Interface and an Iterator > > > Procedure for animated calls of the Curves Tool with > > > varying values. > > > > > > Author: Wolfgang Hofer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > > > > Date: 2.4.1; 2008/01/30 > > > > > > Copyright: Wolfgang Hofer > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 22:36:03 +0930 > > From: "David Gowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Automatically save curves > > file > > To: "Kent Tenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > Message-ID: > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > Hi Kent, > > > > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:47 PM, Kent Tenney > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:01 PM, > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Quoting Kent Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > >> > > >>> will there be provisions to apply a saved > > curve to an image without the > > >>> gui? > > >>> > > >> > > >> If you have the GIMP Animation Package installed, > > you will find a plug-in > > >> named 'plug-in-wr-curves' which permits > > application of a curves file. > > > > > > I don't have GAP installed. > > > > > > I've installed Gimp 2.6 on Ubuntu 8.04 using > > .deb's from > > > http://www.getdeb.net/app/Gimp > > > > > > will > > > apt-get install gimp-gap > > > > > > do what I want? > > AFAIK yes. > > > or is there more to it? > > > (I don't want to try and see for fear of breaking > > things) > > There should be nothing to break -- GIMP-GAP is only a > > suite of > > plugins, if you install it and find it doesn't work, > > it's easy enough > > to remove it using Synaptic. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > HTH, > > David > > > > -- > > Everything has reasons. Nothing has justification. > > ?io havas kialojn; Nenia?o havas pravigeron. > > > > -- > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 09:50:12 -0500 > > From: "Kent Tenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Automatically save curves > > file > > Cc: Gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > Message-ID: > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:01 PM, > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Quoting Kent Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > >> will there be provisions to apply a saved curve to > > an image without the > > >> gui? > > >> > > > > > > If you have the GIMP Animation Package installed, you > > will find a plug-in > > > named 'plug-in-wr-curves' which permits > > application of a curves file. > > > > > > plug-in-wr-curves > > > > > > GIMP Plug-in > > > > > > /Video/Layer/Colors/ > > > > > > Wrapper for GIMP Curves Tool call based on Curves > > file > > > > > > Parameters > > > > > > run-mode INT32 Interactive, non-interactive > > > image IMAGE Input image > > > drawable DRAWABLE Input drawable (must be a > > layer) > > >
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
pe: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 7:01 PM, > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Quoting Kent Tenney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > >> will there be provisions to apply a saved curve to > > an image without the > > >> gui? > > >> > > > > > > If you have the GIMP Animation Package installed, you > > will find a plug-in > > > named 'plug-in-wr-curves' which permits > > application of a curves file. > > > > > > plug-in-wr-curves > > > > > > GIMP Plug-in > > > > > > /Video/Layer/Colors/ > > > > > > Wrapper for GIMP Curves Tool call based on Curves > > file > > > > > > Parameters > > > > > > run-mode INT32 Interactive, non-interactive > > > image IMAGE Input image > > > drawable DRAWABLE Input drawable (must be a > > layer) > > > filename STRING Name of a GIMP curves file > > (saved by the Curves > > > Tool) > > > > > > Return Values > > > > > > the-drawable DRAWABLE the processed layer > > > > > > Additional Information > > > > > > This Plugin loads a # GIMP Curves File, that was > > saved by > > > the GIMP 2.0pre1 Curves Tool > > > > Darn, it seems this won't help, the format of the Gimp > > 2.6 autosaved curves > > file must be different than the one this plugin was written > > against. > > > > Very cool stuff in GAP though. > > > > Thanks, > > Kent > > > > then calculates the curves > > > (256 points foreach channel val,r,g,b,a) and calls > > the > > > Curve Tool via PDB interface with the calculated > > curve > > > points It also stores the points, and offers a > > > GIMP_RUN_WITH_LAST_VALUES Interface and an Iterator > > > Procedure for animated calls of the Curves Tool with > > > varying values. > > > > > > Author: Wolfgang Hofer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > > > > Date: 2.4.1; 2008/01/30 > > > > > > Copyright: Wolfgang Hofer > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:13:31 -0300 > > From: Fl?vio Pontes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem > > To: GIMP Developers List > > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Tobias, I apologize for replying to your personal address. > > Here's to the > > list. > > > > IMHO it is just a waste of space because it is not a good > > indicator for > > a drop target. Not one of the ppl I showed it - all of them > > designers - > > recognized it as a drop target and, frankly, the image in > > there is > > simply wrong. If we need to make it recognizable as a drop > > target, we > > need to make it a drop target icon, that's all. A > > Wilber background > > image tha doesn't even show up entirely is a poor > > indicator. It looks > > more as a - ugly, but that's debatable - decoration > > than anything else. > > > > I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a drop target > > in the toolbox > > window, but that it should be more obvious and take less > > space from the > > tools that are the main function of the window. > > > > Regards, > > > > Fl?vio. > > > > Am Freitag, den 03.10.2008, 11:13 -0700 schrieb Patrick > > Horgan: > > > Martin Nordholts wrote: > > > > ~~~%< snip! >%~~~ > > > > What are peoples thoughts here? > > > > > > > He's cute there, but doesn't add any > > functionality, no? > > > > He is there, to indicate that the toolbox is an drop area > > for images. > > Like the Wilbert in the empty window. > > > > Regards, > > Tobias > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > /lists/gimp-developer/attachments/20081004/e7adcba2/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 10:57:28 -0500 > > From: William Steidtmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem > > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > > > I also think that the toolbox Wilber is an inefficient use > > of space, so > > here is an idea (my apologies if this has already been > > discussed/thought > > of): Right now there are 3 status items in > > Preferences->Toolbox->Appearance, that when checked > > appear below the > > toolbox tool icons. Add a 4th status item choice which > > would appear as > > a drop box/icon with Wilber's face in it. Those who > > like having it can > > check it on, and those who feel that any/all 4 items are > > wasted space > > can turn all 4 off. The space above the toolbox is > > eliminated. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > The second mouse gets the cheese. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:06:44 +0200 > > From: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem > > To: William Steidtmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Hi, > > > > if you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your screen > > layout, then why > > don't you just turn it off? There's a gimprc option > > for this and it is > > documented. There is no UI for it, but that should be OK. > > There are > > quite a few options that don't have a UI, simply > > because they are not > > considered important enough to clutter the preferences > > dialog (which is > > still way too cluttered). > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ___ > > Gimp-developer mailing list > > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > > > > > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 73, Issue 10 > > ** > > > Scopri il blog di Yahoo! Mail: > Trucchi, novità e la tua opinione. > http://www.ymailblogit.com/blog > ___ > Gimp-developer mailing list > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, Sven Neumann wrote: > don't you guys get it? I get it - I'm just disappointed by it. I shall refrain from beating the dead horse any further. All the best, -- Alastair M. Robinson ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 07:58 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:
[...]
> B. How can I remove the toolbox Wilber?
The best answer is, "you don't want to remove it because it's
useful. You can drop images there."
Of course, you could always drop onto the toolbox before.
I wonder if the Adobe people get requests to hide the Adobe
branding on their pallettes?
I do think gtk+ should provide a UI element that's a drag
source and/or drag target; the experiments on these done for
the open look ui came out really well.
I'd also like to be able to right-click ("dingus-click") on
Wilber and get a pop-up menu.
Liam
--
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gimp.org www.advogato.org
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Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, don't you guys get it? We want that graphics to stay and we don't want to allow users to turn it off. The UI team decided that it is important and thus it will stay. The only reason that I added a gimprc option to disable it was because the graphics doesn't play nicely with a horizontal toolbox layout. As soon as that has been addressed, we should consider to remove that gimprc option again. We, the developers, are not even in the position to remove this graphics. We decided that the user interface decisions are made by the UI team. We can't just start to ignore their advice, only because a handful of users don't like a particular change. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 14:04 -0500, William Steidtmann wrote: > Thanks for the info regarding this gimprc option. I disagree that the > Appearance section of Preferences->Toolbox is cluttered, given that > there are only 3 items there. If I were to write a patch and send it to > you, to add the (toobox-wilber [yes|no]) gimprc option to that section > of Preferences, is this a feature you would consider adding? No, I could easily do that myself. But as already explained in this thread, we don't change the UI and introduce new translatable strings in a stable branch unless this is absolutely necessary to fix a severe bug. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Thanks for the info regarding this gimprc option. I disagree that the Appearance section of Preferences->Toolbox is cluttered, given that there are only 3 items there. If I were to write a patch and send it to you, to add the (toobox-wilber [yes|no]) gimprc option to that section of Preferences, is this a feature you would consider adding? Bill Sven Neumann wrote: > Hi, > > if you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your screen layout, then why > don't you just turn it off? There's a gimprc option for this and it is > documented. There is no UI for it, but that should be OK. There are > quite a few options that don't have a UI, simply because they are not > considered important enough to clutter the preferences dialog (which is > still way too cluttered). > > > Sven > > > > -- The second mouse gets the cheese. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, Sven Neumann wrote: > if you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your screen layout, then why > don't you just turn it off? There's a gimprc option for this and it is > documented. Is it documented anywhere other than the gimprc file itself (and now this mailing list too!)? In other words, is it "discoverable"? As a long time user I'd sooner not waste that screen space either, but it would never have dawned on me to go poking around in gimprc if I hadn't just read your comment. I'm not sure I'd have figured out that the Wilber was supposed to represent a drop target, either - though the tooltip is admittedly a bit of a hint! :) > There is no UI for it, but that should be OK. There are > quite a few options that don't have a UI, simply because they are not > considered important enough to clutter the preferences dialog (which is > still way too cluttered). As far as I can tell, the toolbox doesn't currently respond to right-clicks at all, so perhaps it's worth considering a right-click menu with checkboxes to replace (or just complement) the contents of the Preferences dialog's "toolbox" page. That's how many programs, from the Windows taskbar, to web browsers, to OpenOffice.org, allow the visibility of optional UI elements to be set, so would probably be more in line with user expectations than checkboxes in an already-crowded dialog. All the best, -- Alastair M. Robinson ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, > if you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your screen layout, then why > don't you just turn it off? There's a gimprc option for this and it is > documented. I thought this wasn't going to be done at all in 2.6, and the previous part of this thread also made me think it still wasn't possible. I'm happy to see I was wrong. Many many thanks for adding that option!! -- Aurore ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, if you don't like it, or it doesn't fit your screen layout, then why don't you just turn it off? There's a gimprc option for this and it is documented. There is no UI for it, but that should be OK. There are quite a few options that don't have a UI, simply because they are not considered important enough to clutter the preferences dialog (which is still way too cluttered). Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
I also think that the toolbox Wilber is an inefficient use of space, so here is an idea (my apologies if this has already been discussed/thought of): Right now there are 3 status items in Preferences->Toolbox->Appearance, that when checked appear below the toolbox tool icons. Add a 4th status item choice which would appear as a drop box/icon with Wilber's face in it. Those who like having it can check it on, and those who feel that any/all 4 items are wasted space can turn all 4 off. The space above the toolbox is eliminated. Bill -- The second mouse gets the cheese. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Tobias, I apologize for replying to your personal address. Here's to the list. IMHO it is just a waste of space because it is not a good indicator for a drop target. Not one of the ppl I showed it - all of them designers - recognized it as a drop target and, frankly, the image in there is simply wrong. If we need to make it recognizable as a drop target, we need to make it a drop target icon, that's all. A Wilber background image tha doesn't even show up entirely is a poor indicator. It looks more as a - ugly, but that's debatable - decoration than anything else. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a drop target in the toolbox window, but that it should be more obvious and take less space from the tools that are the main function of the window. Regards, Flávio. Am Freitag, den 03.10.2008, 11:13 -0700 schrieb Patrick Horgan: > Martin Nordholts wrote: > > ~~~%< snip! >%~~~ > > What are peoples thoughts here? > > > He's cute there, but doesn't add any functionality, no? He is there, to indicate that the toolbox is an drop area for images. Like the Wilbert in the empty window. Regards, Tobias ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, > On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 07:58 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote: > >> Regarding question B however, I believe we need to do something. It >> doesn't seem as if people easily make the association we wanted them to >> make: where you see Wilber, you can drop an image to open it. (Some >> people doesn't even see that it is Wilber, although IMO it is pretty >> obvious.) I see two options: >> >> 1. Hide the toolbox Wilber by default, or >> 2. Add a UI in the Preferences to toggle toolbox Wilber on and off. >> >> When Wilber was added in the toolbox in the development version my >> opinion was that he should not be in the Toolbox, and I still have that >> standpoint. In other words, I think we should go for option 1 for GIMP >> 2.6.1. > > No way. This would be a UI and string change and as such it is > completely unacceptable for a stable release. If it would be absolutely > necessary in order to fix a severe bug, that would be something > different. But this is such a no-issue that it is definitely not worth > it. > > Apart from that, we, the developers and the UI team, decided that the > graphics should be there. I don't see why we should change our mind now. Might be, just because users are asking for it ? With all respect, but your intention to indicate a drop down area with this UI element failed for me. Coming from 2.4.x: 1st. On a first glance I thought it was a left-over from the removed pull-down menus. 2nd. I did not recognize at all that it was Wilber. 3rd. Therefore I did not recognize its purpose intuitively. Moreover, my use case is to work with a 2 window layout: Toolbox with tools, tool options and layers/channels/path/undo etc. integrated in one single, vertical oriented window on the left, similar like that one: http://www.mail-archive.com/gimp-developer%40lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/msg16030.html resp. http://www.ohweb.com.ar/screenshots/one-window-layout.png and the image window to its right. In my case the enlarged drop-down area takes space away I could use better, e.g. for one more layer. I would support Martin's options #2 above with the default "on". Users who don't need or want it like me can turn it off. The feature to drop a new image onto the toolbox still remains, even in this case. > There are always a few people complaining. There's nothing you can do > about that. I don't see this as a complaint rather than a critical review of a new UI design element incl. proposals how to fit users' needs. Rgds, Stephan. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Martin Nordholts gmail.com> writes: > After spending quite some time mostly in our own #gimp and the freenode > #gimp answering questions, I can see two questions that are particularly > frequently asked. > > A. How do I get the new window management to work on Windows, and > B. How can I remove the toolbox Wilber? > > Regarding question A, there is not much we can do except waiting for > someone to improve this in the Windows GTK+ backend. Not quite true - you could put a call for volunteers on the website and the mailing list specifically for that. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Am Freitag, den 03.10.2008, 11:13 -0700 schrieb Patrick Horgan: > Martin Nordholts wrote: > > ~~~%< snip! >%~~~ > > What are peoples thoughts here? > > > He's cute there, but doesn't add any functionality, no? He is there, to indicate that the toolbox is an drop area for images. Like the Wilbert in the empty window. Regards, Tobias ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Martin Nordholts wrote: > ~~~%< snip! >%~~~ > What are peoples thoughts here? > He's cute there, but doesn't add any functionality, no? I don't see any reason for him to go, but wouldn't be upset. Patrick ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
Hi, On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 07:58 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote: > Regarding question B however, I believe we need to do something. It > doesn't seem as if people easily make the association we wanted them to > make: where you see Wilber, you can drop an image to open it. (Some > people doesn't even see that it is Wilber, although IMO it is pretty > obvious.) I see two options: > > 1. Hide the toolbox Wilber by default, or > 2. Add a UI in the Preferences to toggle toolbox Wilber on and off. > > When Wilber was added in the toolbox in the development version my > opinion was that he should not be in the Toolbox, and I still have that > standpoint. In other words, I think we should go for option 1 for GIMP > 2.6.1. No way. This would be a UI and string change and as such it is completely unacceptable for a stable release. If it would be absolutely necessary in order to fix a severe bug, that would be something different. But this is such a no-issue that it is definitely not worth it. Apart from that, we, the developers and the UI team, decided that the graphics should be there. I don't see why we should change our mind now. There are always a few people complaining. There's nothing you can do about that. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
On Friday 03 October 2008 08:58:29 Martin Nordholts wrote: > 1. Hide the toolbox Wilber by default, or > 2. Add a UI in the Preferences to toggle toolbox Wilber on and off. > > What are peoples thoughts here? For me it is not a drop target, but a little branding plaque and as such quite nice, but should be fixed to not get in the way. When it was added I did not recognize Wilber either tho, mainly because I was using single row toolbox at the time. Ive gotten used to him since tho so on Linux I'm no longer bothered by his presence. On Windows however the bar is wider than the menu used to be and also since on windows the utility window hints don't work and toolbox cannot be even made a two-column one, 4 is minimum, it is a bother. For anybody trying to use the single row stretched toolbox is going to be slightly bothered by it as well. It should stay against the shorter edge of the toolbox... So, to sum it up, it is a nice product plaque and as such could IMHO stay if its fixed to play nice ... and perhaps allow users to hide it with a single click... -- Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The toolbox Wilber problem
+1 to hide Wilber via preferences. It was my initial thought when I saw him for the first time. With respect Alexander Rabtchevich ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
