Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Sven

[Jernej Simončič]

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:12:09 EST, rlt46...@aol.com wrote:

> 1.  Please try asking me what I have/have not done before  jumping to 
> conclusions.  I have tried several (more than 3) times to  download 2.6.5.  I 
> when I 
> try to install I get the message that it is  invalid or corrupt.

Try another download mirror, or complain to your ISP. There have been
180.000 downloads of GIMP 2.6.5 Windows installer so far (according to
SourceForge), and I haven't received any complaints.

> 2.  Mea culpa.  I do not know the definition of "html", but I  have removed 
> my signature if that makes you feel better.

Configure your client to send messages in plain text format. Just removing
styles isn't enough.

> 3.  A computer expert told me years ago that bandwidth has not been a  
> relevant issue since the old 486s.

It's a problem because your client specifies black as the text colour, but
doesn't specify background colour, which on my configuration makes your
messages unreadable (I have black background). This doesn't happen with
plain text messages.

Also, please quote normally (prefix all quoted lines with a single >
character - that makes it much clearer which part of the message is a
quote, and what's your answer).

And if you have time to complain about adverts inserted in your signature,
at least put a signature delimiter (dash-dash-space) above them - this'll
hide them from most decent clients.

> 5.  Ooooh, nooo.  now I am a dreaded  Thread 
> Breaker!!!   Whatever shall I do?  I don't think I can  live with myself.  

Just because your client is so primitive that it doesn't know how to thread
messages doesn't mean that you should ruin threading for everybody. Take a
look here to see how threading looks (and how you're breaking it):


> All snide remarks aside...   I am on digest.  Digest does  not recognize 
> threads.  When I respond it is to the digest address and  I have no control 
> over 
> where it goes from there.  If you can't cope  with the highly technical 
> advancements like digests, don't take it out on the  rest of us. 

Digests shouldn't be used for anything but reading - but even with digests,
there shouldn't be too many problems as long as you don't change the
subject on every post.

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< Contact address: >< jernej simoncic at isg si >

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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Sven

[Michael Schumacher]

rlt46...@aol.com wrote:

> 5.  Ooooh, nooo.  now I am a dreaded Thread
> Breaker!!!   Whatever shall I do?  I don't think I can live with myself. 

Please do read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Thanks.


Michael

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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Sven

[Chris Mohler]

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:12 PM,   wrote:
[...]
> All snide remarks aside...

Just my opinion, but you should lighten up a bit.  Sven is an active
developer of GIMP, and if you go through the archives, there are a lot
of people who post unanswerable/unintelligble questions on this list.
I would guess he's more "exasperated" than "arrogant" - but then again
we've never met ;)

You should definitely contact the people who are distributing the
2.6.5 OSX binary and ask about the corruption - it's always best to
use the latest stable version if possible, esp. when trying to track
down a bug/issue.

The HTML and thread-breaking are indeed a bit annoying - and you will
find that other mailing lists will make the same requests of you.

Again - just my humble opinion.

Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Sven

[Rlt46gem]

>>>  Please update to GIMP 2.6.5 then. It is actually quite  rude to waste
other people's time like this. You are using an outdated  version and
should have updated to the latest stable release before asking.  That
would have saved all of us a lot of time.
 
1.  Please try asking me what I have/have not done before  jumping to 
conclusions.  I have tried several (more than 3) times to  download 2.6.5.  I 
when I 
try to install I get the message that it is  invalid or corrupt.  If you can 
send me a workable solution, please  do.  If you cannot, please refrain from 
making any more  snotty "blame and shame" comments.  YOU are wasting everyone's 
time by  using this forum to work your own arrogant agenda.  Your last post 
was  rude.  This post is deliberately mean spirited and hateful.
 

>>>  And please stop sending HTML mails to this list.  Other people are on
dial-up connections just as you and you are wasting their  bandwidth.

2.  Mea culpa.  I do not know the definition of "html", but I  have removed 
my signature if that makes you feel better.
3.  A computer expert told me years ago that bandwidth has not been a  
relevant issue since the old 486s.
 
 
>>>  Please respect the rules of this list as explained at 
_http://gimp.org/mail_lists.html_ (http://gimp.org/mail_lists.html) 
 
4.  I found it interesting that nowhere in the rules is there a  request for 
everyone to respect the other list members and be courteous and  polite
 

>>>  And please stop changing the subject, you are  breaking threading.   
Sven <<<
 
5.  Ooooh, nooo.  now I am a dreaded  Thread 
Breaker!!!   Whatever shall I do?  I don't think I can  live with myself.  
 
All snide remarks aside...   I am on digest.  Digest does  not recognize 
threads.  When I respond it is to the digest address and  I have no control 
over 
where it goes from there.  If you can't cope  with the highly technical 
advancements like digests, don't take it out on the  rest of us. 

Rebecca
 
 



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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Sven

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 21:37 -0500, rlt46...@aol.com wrote:

> I am using Windows XL.
> I am using GIMP 2.6.0.

Please update to GIMP 2.6.5 then. It is actually quite rude to waste
other people's time like this. You are using an outdated version and
should have updated to the latest stable release before asking. That
would have saved all of us a lot of time.

And please stop sending HTML mails to this list. Other people are on
dial-up connections just as you and you are wasting their bandwidth.
Please respect the rules of this list as explained at 
http://gimp.org/mail_lists.html

And please stop changing the subject, you are breaking threading.


Sven


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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 13:01 +0100, Michael Schumacher wrote:


> - web/online: does not work, local version is used :)

Uh, how should this be interpreted? This certainly work for me.


Sven


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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Doug]

Michael Schumacher wrote:
>> Von: Doug 
>> 
>
>   
>> tar.bz2 is a linux compressed file, so it won't be any use to you if 
>> you're running Windows.
>> 
>
> The point of this statement is true - someone who can make use of the file's 
> content as intended on Windows won't have to ask how to handle them - but I 
> would like to point out that simply packaging a file with tar and bzip2 does 
> not make it linux-specific.
>
> Utilities like e.g. 7zip will happily extract (and create) archives of this 
> type on windows, too.
>
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>   
Thanks for that information

Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Doug]

Andrew wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>> Ken Warner wrote:
>>  
>>> I also would like to download the GIMP documentation and run it 
>>> locally.
>>> But I can't find a help manual download.  I only can find a tar.bz2 
>>> tarball
>>> and I don't think I have a program to open that...
>>>
>>> Where is a downloadable GIMP help file with all the HTML pages in it
>>> so I can run the help locally from GIMP?
>>> 
>> Ken,
>> tar.bz2 is a linux compressed file, so it won't be any use to you if 
>> you're running Windows.
>> On linux, first move the downloaded .tar.bz2 file to a 
>> folder where it will be convenient to keep the Help manual.
>> Then in a terminal window, type
>> tar  xzvjf  .tar.bz2
>>   
> Shouldn't that be:
>
> tar xvjf .tar.bz2
>
> ??
>
> Andrew
Humble apologies :-[ 
I noticed that as soon as I sent off the post; z and j are *alternative* 
options
Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Michael Schumacher]

> Von: Doug 

> tar.bz2 is a linux compressed file, so it won't be any use to you if 
> you're running Windows.

The point of this statement is true - someone who can make use of the file's 
content as intended on Windows won't have to ask how to handle them - but I 
would like to point out that simply packaging a file with tar and bzip2 does 
not make it linux-specific.

Utilities like e.g. 7zip will happily extract (and create) archives of this 
type on windows, too.


Regards,
Michael
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Andrew]

Doug wrote:
> Ken Warner wrote:
>   
>> I also would like to download the GIMP documentation and run it locally.
>> But I can't find a help manual download.  I only can find a tar.bz2 
>> tarball
>> and I don't think I have a program to open that...
>>
>> Where is a downloadable GIMP help file with all the HTML pages in it
>> so I can run the help locally from GIMP?
>> 
> Ken,
> tar.bz2 is a linux compressed file, so it won't be any use to you if 
> you're running Windows.
> On linux, first move the downloaded .tar.bz2 file to a 
> folder where it will be convenient to keep the Help manual.
> Then in a terminal window, type
> tar  xzvjf  .tar.bz2
>   
Shouldn't that be:

 tar xvjf .tar.bz2

??

Andrew
> This will uncompress the Help Manual into your chosen folder.
>
> Doug
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>   

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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Doug]

Ken Warner wrote:
> I also would like to download the GIMP documentation and run it locally.
> But I can't find a help manual download.  I only can find a tar.bz2 
> tarball
> and I don't think I have a program to open that...
>
> Where is a downloadable GIMP help file with all the HTML pages in it
> so I can run the help locally from GIMP?
Ken,
tar.bz2 is a linux compressed file, so it won't be any use to you if 
you're running Windows.
On linux, first move the downloaded .tar.bz2 file to a 
folder where it will be convenient to keep the Help manual.
Then in a terminal window, type
tar  xzvjf  .tar.bz2
This will uncompress the Help Manual into your chosen folder.

Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Noel Stoutenburg]

Rebecca:
> I know I can access the manual on line, but would rather not (see my 
> previous post to Doug).  I don't understand the workaround you 
> describe...  I really do not know that much, technically, about 
> computers.  But if you have them installed on your "local system" 
> (hard drive?) why would you need to access them on line?
I have the help files installed on my local machine, and since they are 
html format, and I use my web browser to view them as local files.  You 
don't say what browser you use, but if (as I suspect) you are using 
Windows XP, you have Internet Explorer built in. So what I recommend 
that you navigate to the folder in which the Gimp Help files are located 
(on my machine, the path in which they are installed is 
C:\Gimp-2.0\share\gimp\2.0\help\en\ ) and double-click on the file 
"index.html" at which point the help file should open in your browser.  
You can then set a bookmark in your browser, or create a shortcut to the 
index.html file in the help folder.

I know dial up is a pain, especially with files as large as the GIMP 
Windows installer, and the GIMP help files. You might check with your 
local library, or the library at school; they may have a higher speed 
connection so that you can use a thumb drive and download upgrades when 
you need them.

ns
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Michael Schumacher]

> Von: Doug 

> P.S. Of course, this way the Help tab on Gimp won't work, but at least 
> you'll be able to read the Help Manual whenever you need it

I wrote about it on a german forum yesterday, so let's summarize this again:

We have two versions of the help files, local/online.
We have two different browsers, web/gimp

This results in four cases (if assuming that help is installed locally), and I 
did try each of them:

- web/local: works
- web/online: does not work, local version is used :)
- gimp/local: works
- gimp/online: works

This is on Debian Sid and Windows XP, the latter does have a help browser 
plug-in yet, so I skipped the last two tests here.

In order to check why the local help might now be found, it could be useful to 
use tools that do show what files are accessed (e.g. on Windows XP: Filemon).


Regards,
Michael
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Doug]

Doug wrote:
> rlt46...@aol.com wrote:
>> >>>  For the moment  I use the following work-around: I have the help 
>> files
>> (which are in html) installed at a known point on my system, and I have
>> my web browser set to open them as a file on the local machine. When I
>> run into an issue which necessitates my consulting the helpd files, I
>> open the help files in my browser.ns  <<<
>> Hello Noel,
>>  
>> I know I can access the manual on line, but would rather not (see my 
>> previous post to Doug).  I don't understand the workaround you 
>> describe...  I really do not know that much, technically, about 
>> computers.  But if you have them installed on your "local system" 
>> (hard drive?) why would you need to access them on line?  Or maybe 
>> the question is... if you access the manual on line via your browser, 
>> why go to the trouble of installing them anywhere else?  Sorry for 
>> the questions... but I really don't want to remain computer ignorant 
>> forever.
>>  
>> Rebecca
> Rebecca,
> Someone else will have to give you specific instructions for Windows 
> XL, but in general terms you read the Help document with your internet 
> browser  - you just  set it to look at a file instead of at a website.
>
> With Firefox, for instance, click on File , then Open File, then 
> follow it to where you've installed Help.
> For Internet Explorer the procedure will be very similar. In XL you 
> can probably drag the Help files onto the desktop  for it to leave an 
> icon on the desktop as a shortcut.
>
> I expect someone will correct these steps for you.
> Doug
>
P.S. Of course, this way the Help tab on Gimp won't work, but at least 
you'll be able to read the Help Manual whenever you need it

Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Doug]

rlt46...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>  For the moment  I use the following work-around: I have the help 
> files
> (which are in html) installed at a known point on my system, and I have
> my web browser set to open them as a file on the local machine. When I
> run into an issue which necessitates my consulting the helpd files, I
> open the help files in my browser.ns  <<<
> Hello Noel,
>  
> I know I can access the manual on line, but would rather not (see my 
> previous post to Doug).  I don't understand the workaround you 
> describe...  I really do not know that much, technically, about 
> computers.  But if you have them installed on your "local system" 
> (hard drive?) why would you need to access them on line?  Or maybe the 
> question is... if you access the manual on line via your browser, why 
> go to the trouble of installing them anywhere else?  Sorry for the 
> questions... but I really don't want to remain computer ignorant forever.
>  
> Rebecca
Rebecca,
Someone else will have to give you specific instructions for Windows XL, 
but in general terms you read the Help document with your internet 
browser  - you just  set it to look at a file instead of at a website.

With Firefox, for instance, click on File , then Open File, then follow 
it to where you've installed Help.
For Internet Explorer the procedure will be very similar. In XL you can 
probably drag the Help files onto the desktop  for it to leave an icon 
on the desktop as a shortcut.

I expect someone will correct these steps for you.
Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Doug

[Doug]

rlt46...@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/25/2009 2:40:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
> doug_bainbri...@onetel.com writes:
>
> >>>  Are you using Windows, linux or Mac? Let us know please.
> I think with linux your easiest route is to have an internet
> connection
> running. Gimp should find the website
> http://docs.gimp.org/en/ automatically.   Doug  <<<
>
> Hello Doug,
>  
> I am using Windows XL.  Sorry for the oversight, I didn't realize it 
> made a difference.  Like I said, I am strictly an end-user.
>  
> When I am using a graphics program I am usually off line.  I'm on 
> dial-up and when I have Gimp open it takes forever to access the 
> Internet so I prefer to not use the on line manual unless I have no 
> other recourse.
>  
> Rebecca
You have my deepest sympathy - I know what it's like on dial-up!
Sorry I can't help with Windows, but I hope someone else will be able to.
Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Noel

[Rlt46gem]

>>>  For the moment  I use the following work-around: I  have the help files 
(which are in html) installed at a known point on my  system, and I have 
my web browser set to open them as a file on the local  machine. When I 
run into an issue which necessitates my consulting the helpd  files, I 
open the help files in my  browser.ns   <<<

Hello Noel,
 
I know I can access the manual on line, but would rather not (see my  
previous post to Doug).  I don't understand the workaround you  describe...  I 
really 
do not know that much, technically, about  computers.  But if you have them 
installed on your "local system" (hard  drive?) why would you need to access 
them on line?  Or maybe the question  is... if you access the manual on line 
via 
your browser, why go to the trouble  of installing them anywhere else?  Sorry 
for the questions... but I really  don't want to remain computer ignorant 
forever.
 
Rebecca
 
“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for  themselves.” 
So said Abraham Lincoln!
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~~



In a message dated 2/25/2009 8:46:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
gimp-user-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu writes:

For the  moment  I use the following work-around: I have the help files 
(which  are in html) installed at a known point on my system, and I have 
my web  browser set to open them as a file on the local machine. When I 
run into  an issue which necessitates my consulting the helpd files, I 
open the help  files in my  browser.

ns


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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Doug

[Noel Stoutenburg]

Rebecca,

when you wrote, in part
>  
> I am using Windows XL. 

I assume you meant Windows XP

ns
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Doug

[Rlt46gem]

 
In a message dated 2/25/2009 2:40:23 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
doug_bainbri...@onetel.com writes:

>>>  Are you using Windows, linux or Mac? Let us know  please.
I think with linux your easiest route is to have an internet  connection 
running. Gimp should find the  website
http://docs.gimp.org/en/ automatically.   Doug   <<<

Hello Doug,
 
I am using Windows XL.  Sorry for the oversight, I didn't realize it  made a 
difference.  Like I said, I am strictly an end-user.
 
When I am using a graphics program I am usually off line.  I'm on  dial-up 
and when I have Gimp open it takes forever to access the Internet so I  prefer 
to not use the on line manual unless I have no other recourse.
 
Rebecca
 
“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for  themselves.” 
So said Abraham Lincoln!
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!! -- Att.: Sven

[Rlt46gem]

 
In a message dated 2/25/2009 3:53:04 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
s...@gimp.org writes:
 

>>>  You did not tell us what operating system you are on.  You did not tell
us what version of GIMP you have installed, nor what version  of the GIMP
user manual you did install. How are we supposed to help  you?  Sven  <<<
 
Hello Sven,
 
Aside from the rudeness of your approach, you asked some valid  questions:
 
I am using Windows XL.
I am using GIMP 2.6.0.
I have (but, obviously not using) Help manual 2.4.0.
 
Rebecca

“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it  not for themselves.” 
So said Abraham Lincoln!
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!!

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:24 -0500, rlt46...@aol.com wrote:
>  
> Some time ago another person and I both asked how to get the Help
> function to work.  I still haven't seen any answer and I think the
> questions got lost in the flurry of other more technical questions.
>  
> I have Gimp (installed) and Gimp Help (also installed) but when I
> click on "Help" in Gimp I get a message that "The GIMP user manual is
> not installed on your computer."

You did not tell us what operating system you are on. You did not tell
us what version of GIMP you have installed, nor what version of the GIMP
user manual you did install. How are we supposed to help you?


Sven



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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!!

[Doug]

Are you using Windows, linux or Mac? Let us know please.
I think with linux your easiest route is to have an internet connection 
running. Gimp should find the website

http://docs.gimp.org/en/ automatically.

Doug

rlt46...@aol.com wrote:

Hello,
Some time ago another person and I both asked how to get the Help 
function to work. I still haven't seen any answer and I think the 
questions got lost in the flurry of other more technical questions.
I have Gimp (installed) and Gimp Help (also installed) but when I 
click on "Help" in Gimp I get a message that "The GIMP user manual is 
not installed on your computer."
I know there is another step I must complete to integrate the two, but 
what is it? In other words, how do I get the help/user manual to work?
Any advice will be appreciated and please remember... I am strictly a 
novice end-user.

Rebecca

*“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves.�*
So said Abraham Lincoln!
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Totally cool web site:* Tolerance.org 
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with "Help"!!!

[Noel Stoutenburg]

Rebecca,

I, too, asked about the same problem with the help files you did back in 
November 08, at which time I was told it was a known issue, and was 
expected to be fixed in the next release.

For the moment  I use the following work-around: I have the help files 
(which are in html) installed at a known point on my system, and I have 
my web browser set to open them as a file on the local machine. When I 
run into an issue which necessitates my consulting the helpd files, I 
open the help files in my browser.

ns
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with help

[Axel Wernicke]

I would suggest to ask this on the wilder-loves-apple Forum. Since  
they did the packaging, they should know how to fix this issue.

Greetings, lexA

--
Watch out where the huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow.

Am 12.02.2008 um 20:33 schrieb Jim Sabatke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> edward storm wrote:
>>Although I am able to make progress in Peck's "Beginning GIMP" I  
>> have
>> not been able to access or use
>> the Gimp help files.   When I click on Help in The Gimp
>> I get nothing.  In my root directory (Leopard) in addition to
>> Macintosh HD and Network I have Gimp, help,
>> Gimp-2.4.3-080109-Leopard-Intel.  This is what I have
>> just after downloading Gimp-2.4.4... from "Wilbur Loves
>> Apple".
>>
>>Why does it still say "Gimp-2.4.3..." when I have
>> downloaded "Gimp-2.4.4..."?
>>
>>How can I get access to and use The Gimp's help files?  I can't
>> access the Gimp Manual either,  from
>> inside The Gimp.
>>
>>I am a very raw novice at modern computing,  but
>> with considerable experience with the old-fashioned
>> computing - Pascal, C, Lisp, Scheme and some UNIX.  If you're going  
>> to
>> try to help me please be very explicit
>> and exact.  I still don't "get it" and need all the help
>> I can get.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
> 1. You should probably uninstall gimp 2.4.3 and then reinstall 2.4.4.
> 2. Gimp help is another download and install.
>
> I'm not familiar with Mac's and how they load software, so I can't
> really be more specific about this.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jim
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Re: [Gimp-user] Need help with help

[Jim Sabatke]

edward storm wrote:
>   Although I am able to make progress in Peck's "Beginning GIMP" I have  
> not been able to access or use
> the Gimp help files.   When I click on Help in The Gimp
> I get nothing.  In my root directory (Leopard) in addition to  
> Macintosh HD and Network I have Gimp, help,
> Gimp-2.4.3-080109-Leopard-Intel.  This is what I have
> just after downloading Gimp-2.4.4... from "Wilbur Loves
> Apple".
>
>   Why does it still say "Gimp-2.4.3..." when I have
> downloaded "Gimp-2.4.4..."?
>
>   How can I get access to and use The Gimp's help files?  I can't  
> access the Gimp Manual either,  from
> inside The Gimp.
>
>   I am a very raw novice at modern computing,  but
> with considerable experience with the old-fashioned
> computing - Pascal, C, Lisp, Scheme and some UNIX.  If you're going to  
> try to help me please be very explicit
> and exact.  I still don't "get it" and need all the help
> I can get.
>
>   Thanks
>   
1. You should probably uninstall gimp 2.4.3 and then reinstall 2.4.4.
2. Gimp help is another download and install.

I'm not familiar with Mac's and how they load software, so I can't
really be more specific about this.

Good luck,

Jim
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