Greetings...
When corseting opera singers (who some actually like their corsets for the
proper posture it gives them) we would have then take a deep breath before
the final lacingand laced them up snug, but not tight, while they held
their breath. When they do let their breath out,
Would you buy a slightly
rundown Victorian house and tear it up to sell off the pieces and remake it
into
a modern home?
Why not? People do all the time.
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I have one of those! Found it at a flea market in NC. A traveling hoop...tho'
not very graceful. It expands a bit larger than the pic on ebay.
-Original Message-
From: Laura Rubin rubin.lau...@gmail.com
To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2012 3:12 pm
Subject:
Sometimes there was a bit of boning in the gown, as well.
**
Every upscale gown from the teens I've seen always has a boned under-structure
no matter how draped and flowing the gown is. It usually takes the form of a
muslin or glazed cotton sleeveless bodice that ends at the raised waist
Breeches is an English term. Like culotte is the French term (sans
culottes were French revolutionaries who wore pantalon). And even Jodhpurs
were those riding pants with wide hips (now, just riding pants) worn
traditionally in duh Jodhpur, India. for riding. So I'd say when a 16th
Do you mean where you cut the fabric it's fraying? Dupioni does that.
In actual period gowns, the bodice (at least) is usually flat lined in glazed
cotton. The seams are bound in seam binding. Often in a contrasting color.
Curved seams are not just clipped to lay flat, they are scalloped
Period magazines?
Can they print color photos in 1918? I mean in a magazine. Would such a thing
be cost effective back then? The cover, most like. I dunno.
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And the
fabric turned bright pink when ironed, and cooled to its original blue.
Ah synthetic changeable taffeta!
But research for this is very easy to come by. I did a show that took place in
1957 and in the magazine section of the library there was so much research I
got
I believe it says what the sizes of everything is at the beginning of the book.
-Original Message-
From: Maggie Halberg hhalb94...@aol.com
To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jean Hunnisett regency stays pattern
I've not used that
1860's underpinnings were white
**
They are also traditionally red. Especially in wool. Like wool flannel
petticoats or bloomers. But I've seen red bustles and hoopskirts and cage
hoops. Also red silk petticoats. I've never seen a red chemise though
The only black underpinning
As a matter of fact Jo Anns might even do that for you...
**
They will. I needed someting like 42 buttons for an 18th century coat and Jo
Ann's had the perfect ones...on sale. But of course they only had like 15 of
them. I ordered the rest I needed and even though they came 2
I must admit I love the Jeremy Brett Hound of the Baskervilles and Sign of
Four. But some of the others in that seriesyikes!
The costuming for the series was understated and very realistic and believable
with some beautiful details.
-Original Message-
From: lisa58
Most 19th century bonnets I've seen, real and costume, will stay on as well as
any hat and the strings don't really keep it on, except maybe in windy
weather or in an open coach. I'm willing to bet that many times the tying of
one's bonnet string, and how they are to be tied is dictated by
Greetings Earthings,
A friend wants to pack up her wedding gown for safe keeping but didn' like the
price of having someone do it for her. The gown is not silk or anything. It's
all synthetic I think. (It's really beautiful even if it is synthetic) I told
her she just needs to stuff it and
One would think that since the flower existed before the edge that the edge
would have been named after the flower.
***
Not so. There is no reason the term for the edging could not have been applied
to the flower later. After all, the flower is also called Dianthus. If you
the flower is also called Dianthus.
BTW... Dianthus means flower of Zeus in Greek.
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From a layman's perspective, it is interesting to find out that a pink
is a type of carnation.
sweet williams are pinks too, I believe.
Let's see Wikipedia says:
Dianthus is a genus of about 300 species of flowering plants in the family
Caryophyllaceae, native
So far, we have found one pair of split drawers in the vast attic-sized pile,
Really! That's interesting.
I've seen dozens but they are all kinda early. The seam gets sewn up I'd
say (guess really) by the 1860's and by the 1880's you have combos... a
bodice part and the
Were drawers worn as early as 1845
**
Oh yes. But remember, they were two separate legs sewn to one waistband... the
crotch seam isn't sewn up until later in the century.
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Even if the marking were on the front, ladies' shifts were never
intended to be viewed by anybody, so who would care where a laundry
mark was placed?
I don't know about this. The chemises I've got are embroidered, and couched,
especially on the narrow yolks and
The bodices seem to all be
quilted or very fitted for each lady.
They are pleated or gathered to a tight fitting lining up to the bust area and
then the pleats release. Bodices in this period are often boned, certainly down
the CF (keeps the point down) but also at the sides and
The simple gown you envision is very Jane Eyre and exists. Complicated
sleeves with pleating and poufs of course exist too, and sleeves were more
complicated early in the decade. The bell shaped sleeve is the start of the
1850's look so they are near the end of the decade. It's been my
Is this it?
http://www.tara.tcd.ie/handle/2262/25836
Try here...
http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/2262/25836/1/ertk1721.jpg
-Original Message-
From: Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.gov
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 11:03 am
Subject: Re:
Oh, I see lots of nice, and some rather incorrect outfits in this movie clip.
Indeed.
And the aristocacy is so delightfully cruel, isn't it? :-) Then they dance a
sort of La Volta (too early for that too, I think) instead of a Galliard.
But from the late 1960's to the early 80's
There is a Kirtle with a Ropa (I think that's what the over-dress is called)
over it in Janet Arnold. Oh lookhere's an image of it:
http://web.comhem.se/~u31138198/loosekirtle.html
and a diary of the making of the kirtle too.
I thought there was also a Ropa that went over this (It's
And didn't you love that image where Glenn Close gets out of the
carriage and her face is hidden by the hat and then she lifts her face and
changes her expression?
In black and yellow a hornet to stir up a nest.
The whole film is beautifully designed. James Acheson won an
Goday's Lady's magazine starts in the 1830's in Philadelphia I believe.
Here's a link
http://www.accessible.com/accessible/aboutGL.jsp
But fashion plates don't always get the idea of what real people are wearing
(just like today) so it's good to look at the real thing. There are fine
The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it
wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway.
***
The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian.
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there were many corset patterns that used gores - yet many
of the current commercial patterns focus on those without. Is there a reason
for this that anyone might be aware of?
**
Gores come in when the conical 18th century corset started to morph into the
curvy 19th century
Perhaps the term spoon busk is the source of the confusion. But a spoon
busk is this:
http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=B-GSBSP12Category_Code=BProduct_Count=28
I you look in your Corsets and Crinolines you will not find one before the
1870's...
I forgot to add:
I have never seen a spoon busk that wasn't a split busk.
I have never seen an 18th century busk that WAS a split busk.
-Original Message-
From: albert...@aol.com
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and
I am specifically
hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust
gores.
One of my fave corset patterns of all time is Past Pattern's # 708 1845
-1860.
http://www.pastpatterns.com/708.html
I find it works for 1820's to early 1870's The pattern is lightly boned but
M bacon!
-Original Message-
From: Claire Clarke angha...@adam.com.au
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 12, 2011 1:00 am
Subject: [h-cost] I guess this counts as a historical costume
And, hey, he won first prize!
This period is very structured. It is not known for flowing clingy fabrics.
Heavy fabrics have body, wools and velvets and grograin. Light fabrics are
crisp, like paper taffeta and organdy.
Laces are bold and heavy and passamentry is popular
Interesting.
Of course, what is this fabric we call denim? A heavy-ish cotton twill dyed
indigo. It seems quite logical that an old and common weave used with a old and
common dye would come up sooner than later.
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I'm a 2d, and have supported the works by a stuffed, rolled-up sock inside the
straight front :)
In college, when we did The Country Wife, some of the larger girls needed
what we called a sausage...a padded roll that went under the bust the width
of the front of the corset. We made
Personally, I'd use a regular shirt maybe take the collar off and replace
it with a rectangular one (or cut it or fold it into a rectangle) and wear a
stock (a long rectangle wrapped around the neck) or perhaps even a girl's
cotton blouse with poofy sleeves with these things done
First, how low do I cut them off?
Have him put the pants on, sit, and then mark where they come to just below the
knee. Sometimes you have to piece the knee bands because what you cut off the
pants isn't long enough to get the knee measurement out of in one piece but
the band only
It also occurs to me that while you're at Goodwill, you might find a man's
waistcoat (might have to get the whole suit) that you can quickly take up CB
and at the sides to fit him snugly, but will be long enough so there is no gap
showing shirt above the breeches. Braces help a lot with
The curtain dress and the red dress are my two favorites.
Maestro Walter Plunket rarely designs a clunker, no? I love the wedding dress
but you don't see much of it in the film.
Of the lesser known gowns I love are the red dress she wears after she marries
Frank Kennedy and writes the
A friend of mine e-mailed me this link.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129177801ft=1f=1001
It's got pics of the 5 gowns in need.
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M... the putty pink silk broadcloth looks nice.
And there's a cream linen with a little self colored embroidered flower widely
scattered all over it that is nice too (wish it was a lighter weight though.)
I also wondered exactly what the metallic and silk crinkle looks like in
person. I
Usually not the cuffs, unless the person I'm sewing for puts a lot of stress on
that seam, but certainly on the side slits.
I will do a bar tack on the seams where they open at the cuffs which is not
a bride of course. And the side slits usually have a small gusset set into
where they
The most common treatment I've found on mid-19th century original garments
has both seam allowances pressed to one side. If the selvage edge has been
not been used, both seam allowances are overcast together. If the selvage
edge has been used, then they're just pressed to one side. During this
The skirts I have seen had seams finished by hand overcastting. But not with
the seams together-you might need to let it out.
**
With skirts this full, most letting out is done with redistributing the fabric
as opposed to letting a seam out. Besides, the seam allowances are like
Mozart (he was
sort of the 18th century equivilant to a punk rocker)
This is why I hate the film Amadeus. Not only do the costume look like a high
school student designed them and are just plain tacky, but Mozart was in no way
like a Punk rocker.
I saw the play on Broadway with Tim Curry
My understanding is that one or two pages were scanned and sent
privately, to be used in private research.
Under the copyright laws with which I am familiar (and I don't know
which country's laws would apply in this case), this constitutes Fair
Use, and is therefore would seem to be NOT theft
I am looking for metal (or metal look) shank buttons, with the motif
of snowflakes, holly or stags.
*
I bought a bunch of real metal buttons with a stag on them at either Jo Ann's
or Hancock but I can't remember because it was a while back. They came on a
card of 3 and were
In addition to directions for sponge-washing the hair without immersing the
whole head--where much of the soap would likely remain in the hair after the
process is over and therefore stiffen it--there are period arguments for and
against vigorously immersing and washing the whole head full of
The outfit made of plants are OK some are not petty though IMHO.
I like the garments and fabrics frozen in water. Especially the ones out in the
open in a landscape. Very cool!
-Original Message-
From: Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net
To: 'Historical Costume'
I will noe post this so it makes sense
The outfits made of plants are OK some are not pretty though IMHO.
I like the garments and fabrics frozen in water. Especially the ones out in the
open in a landscape. Very cool!
-Original Message-
From:
It looks like the jerkin and possibly his breeches are in leather. But his
sleeves have a fabric look to them, and may be attached to a doublet of
the same fabric. The sleeves look to be extra long and pushed into doing
those gathers - I can't tell with an image this size. The sleeves
Should I
ultimately just drape strips of fabric along the edge and sew it down?
I would. After the gown is all made up, I would just actually drape what I
wanted and baste/ hand sew it on. This is often what they did. And it can be
removed or changed later easily of you want.
What period/year
1860's???
Definitely. Even though she's appears to be sitting, the waist looks a tad
high. This would put it towards the end of the decade
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So, what do you call the billed, low-profile caps similar to (but more
streamlined) the one on Redford in the Great Gatsby?
An Ivy Caphas a flat top and slouches to the front. If the top is made of
several triangular shapes, usually with a button at the point where they meet,
we
The city matters I think. My 1st image involved a double breasted tunic (coat)
and an 8 point cap unless you want Keystone Kops.
Heres a pic from Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KeystoneKops.jpg
Looks almost like a regular frock coat... and Hatcrafters has the helmut I
think...
Since the Keystone Kops are a little early for 1929, here are some pics just
from Google.
http://www.haddontwphistoricalsociety.org/photos--police1929.jpg
(Yikesvery storm trooper! But some motorcycle cops)
http://www.importliquidators.com/Old_Police_1929.jpg
I used to have 2 pair of the old fashioned Jodhpurs with the wide thighs. One
was navy wool broad cloth, the other brown corduroy. Both had button flies and
brown leather patches on the inner thigh that stopped a little below the knee
in a rounded shape. These were added over the already sewn
How about these?
http://www.harriets.com/wwipatterns.htm
-Original Message-
From: Pierre Sandy Pettinger costu...@radiks.net
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:14 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jodhpurs Pattern?
Sportsmans Guide has 2 styles of
Or would greys have been worn during that era?
Browns, greys, greens, blues, (black very prominent) anything you might
think a man's coat could be made of. Herringbone, plaid, tweed, twill.
And most inverness's do not have sleeves (that's what the cape is for) but some
do.
Aren't they beautiful?and such an intimate gift! What a fun detail to
include in a book/movie/play/reenactent.
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Overall I find it a rather amusing image with those supported lace collars
and keeping their hands busy with work.
**
It's like an 18th century version of Renaissancewith the standing lace
collars and the paned sleeves.
And the far left lady has an pointy thing but we can't see what she is doing
with it.
No, but we can imagine!
She's taking orders for Chinese takeout.
Regarding the dress...
I just noticed, on this 2nd viewing of this actually very interesting
illustration, the servant (well half
I believe that's the Swedish national costume or court dress
Whoa! I just posted my are they in some archaic court dress? comment right
before I read this one. Great minds...right?
But would everyone have to wear it? Even the Queen? (or whoever is highest).
Who are these people?
Does anyone recall when dolman sleeved swing jackets were popular?
*
Actually, in the 1950's and early 60's. A Dior thing?or was it Balenciaga?
Anyway, they make a comeback from time to time. In the 1980's (I don't actually
remember them then) they'd more than likely
There are painted costumes.
*
There was a wonderful Dutch fabric painter (who I got along with famously) on
Interview with the Vampire (Sandy Powell designed that) and much painting in
that film. Several people in the shop were worried about things looking painted
instead of
just a bit heavier than T-shirt fabric.
The two real one piece tank top vintage bathing suits for men I found at a flea
market were knit but sweater weight (perhaps a bit denser, tighter stitch than
a sweater). They also had a woven cotton underwear- like thing sewn
you could run a basting thread along the chalk line... the couched cord will
cover any holes from the basting, and if you use a fine needle, the holes won't
last long anyway... this is actually Gerek's idea, he can't remember where he
got it, but thinks it might even be a period method??
What happens when you make a gown in a size 0 (or smaller) out of
invisible stripes?
The mind reels. Quantum costuming!
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The skirt must have been falling off and no one
noticed in the outdoor shot. :~)
When we did the 1st shot of Last of the Mohicans (a scene in Albany) we in
the shop wondered down to the set to see how everyone looked all done up i hair
and makeup and surrounded by the set.
It was like
For some reason, it seems like costume designers from the 50s and 60s were not
at all interested in any sort of historical accuracy.
They aren't.
In America anyway... a little more so in Britain. Accuracy becomes a thing in
the late '60's. The 1st movie I can remember as being accurate
I noticed that too when watching Giant
Moss Mabry designed Liz's costumes for Giant. I worked with him once and we
talked about period costuming. He thinks that all period designers have to do
is copy portraits. He DESIGNER and will just do fashions for the characters.
He tries to get
Leather sounds like a good choice. Parchment (the real stuff is leather y'know)
is offend used in millinery and trimmings in the period. Buckram is a millinery
product used for a long time now since it is basically burlap stiffened with
glue or shellac (also used to block felt hats). Modern
It's just me, of course, but I hate fusible interfacing. If the velvet
stretches more or less than the fusible it could pull apart from the
innerfacing in places and we all know how that looks. Plus, ironing acres of
velvet is a painyou don't want to crush it. Iron it on a thick terry
Waitaccording to Manet, the women should be nude!
Seriously...lovely gowns!
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browns, and for depth at least one part black.
Black usually has a lot of blue in it. But since you don't want to go purple,
you must stay on the red side of brown. Still you want a bit of bluewhich
the black will add. A chocolate color might do the trick.
Test test test!
A good Roman question might be Did Livia cook this?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Anyway, as to sewing. If the wool was thick and spongy, I would think it would
be butted up and
then stitched side by side,
As suggested. This might be done by putting the fabric right sides
Lookee
http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,3217,00.html
http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,3218,00.html
-Original Message-
From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com
To: h-cost h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 4:06 pm
Subject: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant
looks like someof the BW are early
Alas, it looks like the earliest photo is from the early '50's.
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I just found NASM.
***
Yes! Here's a color photo of a replica of the uniforms I showed you in the pics
from United Air Lines.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal102/americabyair/abaImage.cfm?webID=210.p10
MMa lovely green...NOT! Anyway, it's very deco. I hate
Clothing coupons had been abolished in 1948 so that by 1952 clothes were at
last
liberated.? Hemlines which had plunged rapidly with the new look, finally
settled at mid calf length, eleven and a quarter inches off the ground.? Dolman
sleeves, swing back coats and stand away collars were
I must admit...that does seem short even for the shortest of skirts in the
period. (I haven't seen the film yet)
Let us not forget, however, the pain-in-the-ass actors (and directors) who
insist of changing what the designer wants even if it destroys the integrity of
the design. Boy, I've
Now, sitting in those long-bodied corsets must have been...interesting. At
least
one shows creases where your thighs would bend.
You'll notice that the bones do not go all the way to the bottom, but usually
stop at the high hip line. The casings do continue all the way down but usually
Here's one from Past Patterns.
http://www.pastpatterns.com/8109.html
These types of gowns usually have an unssen lightly boned foundation bodice
that the other stuff is draped onto. A pattern like this might include such a
detail.
The dress is most likely cotton or a cotton/linen blend. Cotton was very
expensive before the invention of the cotton gin in 1793 (?) and the portrait
is 1780-something.
It was also a scandal! The QUEEN! In a chemise gown usually reserved for at
home wear, not for public And doing
Much more affordable than the sheer linen, which I
cannot imaging JoAnn's having ever carried.
**
I once found yardage of cotton almost-gauze in the drapery dept. of an
everything $7 store! It came in off white and a deep rich red, yellow and a
navy!
Imagine a dress
The flowing back pleats of the French gown are lovely in motion.?
Check out some films to see it on a moving person. Dangerous Liaisons comes
to mind as a good example of all kinds of mid 18th century gowns on people in
motion.
Don't forget about Commedia del arte characters. They come
I'd find a pattern for stays that approximate the shape of the
woman's bodice, and go from there.
**
It is common for bodices to have boned linings or for bodices to be mounted
onto boned linings that are not cut exactly the same, but of course similarly
cut.
I find the Past Patterns corset pattern #708 to be a very useful pattern. I
know they mark it as 1840-1880, but I find that it could work for 1829. It's
that gusset construction... basically a cylinder with gussets added to
compensate for the swell of the bust and hips that kind of
20 years ago I bought a huge industrial spool of 1/4 cotton twill tape. (I
STILL have tons of it!) I use that and it works well, but the ends do fray.
*
I shoulda mentioned the advantages of the cotton twill tape.
It's thin because it's flat, y'know...a tape. But it's
Right now, for convenience and in the interest of stash reduction, I'm using
1/8 and 1/4 silk ribbon, leftover from my last round of silk ribbon
embroidery. It's not very satisfactory, but I could not figure out a good
alternative.
20 years ago I bought a huge industrial spool of 1/4
In a message dated 7/9/2009 12:08:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
goo...@comcast.net writes:
The Smithsonian in Washington DC springs to mind. Or all of DC, really.
***
Really! If you end up in DC you must go to the National Gallery. Not
costume related unless you're doing
In a message dated 7/8/2009 1:37:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
otsi...@socket.net writes:
Whoever designed the game look has actually done more than gone to a Ren
Faire,
Yeah they watched Dangerous Beauty too.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that
In a message dated 7/8/2009 2:52:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kay...@gmail.com writes:
and Folkwear Patterns, are two
prominent products of the 60s Hippie movement
I love that Folkwear is in Barnardsville, NC. Alas, I'm on the coast and
Barnardsville is near Asheville
Just for the record...
Male dress codes abound too.
At Prep school, we boys had to wear a coat and tie to class and dinner.
Freshmen had to wear a black tie. No jeans were allowed so we resorted to the
ubiquitous navy blazer, grey or khaki pants and some kind of striped
tie.just like
In a message dated 7/6/2009 2:24:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dela...@yahoo.com writes:
They called it a distraction.
How is a maxi-skirt a distraction? I just don't get it. Mini...I can, in
disagreement, see it. But NOT showing your legs is a distraction?
Of course I was told my
In a message dated 7/4/2009 8:59:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
annbw...@aol.com writes:
Right off the top of my
head, clothing-wise, I'm thinking of polyester double knits, and men's
super wide ties and wild plaid jackets with patch pockets, and leisure
suits.
**
I
In a message dated 7/4/2009 1:29:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
be...@softwareinnovation.com writes:
but the rate of change for Fashion
does seem to be increasing...
Y'know, it seems that way, but it's not. Little things change pretty
regularly. When you start studying
In a message dated 7/4/2009 5:41:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
sha...@collierfam.com writes:
I remember that we were not allowed to wear long skirts to high school in
the year 1968-69.
**
Isn't that dumb? They were probably telling girls not to wear short skirts
3 years
In a message dated 7/1/2009 3:40:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
celticredhead2...@yahoo.com writes:
hair pieces are available at The Halloween Club stores all year round
**
The local CVS pharmacy has hair pieces! One or two would do a whole beard
and they come in different
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