Re: [hlds] TF2: Meet Your Match update and QuickPlay?

[Alexander Corn]

I just want to go ahead and address the "hypocrisy" thing. Community
servers have been exiled from Quickplay for about two years now. Seems only
fair and ahypocritical to do the same with Valve servers for two years, no?

In all honesty, this is the most hope I've had for TF2's survival in, well,
two years. Yes, of course there are a bunch of garbage servers out there.
And yes, there are relatively few vanilla/stock servers. The reason for
that is, in fact, Quickplay. Since Valve basically took a monopoly on
vanilla games, community servers were left doing whatever they possibly
could to stay alive. That usually entailed providing a non-vanilla game
experience, one that couldn't be replicated on a Valve server.

Communities are what keep games alive (and profitable). You can
realistically get the TF2 Valve server experience in any first-person
shooter these days (I'm not going to mention a Certain Game). To stay
relevant, games need something special, something unique that can't be
reproduced. That something is a community. Communities keep people coming
back for many reasons. Maybe they've become friends. Maybe they want to
improve their KDR in the server's stats. Maybe they want to finally beat
that one guy who's just so much better than them in a duel.

Additionally, cosmetic items are far more relevant in community servers.
When you're playing with the same people all the time, they tend to notice
and comment on your new hats or whatever. Gives you a reason to shell out
the cash. Really, who cares about impressing a Valve server random with
their wealth?

That's not to mention the customization benefits. Look at CS:GO. Arms Race
was born as a community modification in CS:S. Look at how many community
maps there are in TF2. Custom maps are very taboo in TF2 lately because
they're not Quickplay-eligible. As a result, it's very difficult for
players to actually find new community maps that might one day be a good
candidate for inclusion, but won't ever get finished without the players
"playtesting" them.

I'm starting to not make sense any longer so I'll leave it there. Basically
what I'm saying is that it's in everyone's interest to encourage the good
community servers to come back and be the lifeblood of TF2 again.

McKay

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 11:04 PM, Rowedahelicon <
theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote:

> I did manage to get some randoms in which was great, but it didn't last
> too long. So things are still *okay* but it's still early I suppose?
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:42 PM, Christian Deacon 
> wrote:
>
>> For me, I got to 9 - 10 players two times today with Steam group events.
>> However, the server never took off. I'm running a stock Payload server. The
>> server was full for hours last night though.
>>
>>
>> I guess I just have to try harder. I'm used to the very old Quick Play
>> system where I would gather six friends, join the server, and the server
>> would instantly fill up...
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF2: GSLTs causing issues?

[Alexander Corn]

Locked accounts can still view their GSLTs (as far as I know), and when an
account is unlocked they aren't reset. That doesn't really corroborate the
idea that it's for security reasons, and not just out of laziness on
Valve's part.

Blocking the viewing of GSLTs for a locked account is perfectly reasonable,
however.

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Bartek S <bartek.sko...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the reason is that if someone accesses your account they can use
> the gslts somewhere else to cause a ban OR to hijack persistent favorites
> from the server browser (if I'm correct, one of those, either GSLTs or the
> quickplay identity allowed persistent favoriting, though on the other hand
> unregistering servers is a pain.
> Can we have a clearly outlined scheme of what we can and cannot do to
> avoid being banned?
> On 20 May 2016 01:46, "Rowedahelicon" <theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah that does seem a tad broken, unless if the account is **BANNED** in
>> some way, there's no logical reason why the servers should suffer if you
>> have a security issue
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Double-email, but on the topic of qualifying accounts, it would be
>>> really, really nice to not have all my servers delisted if my account gets
>>> locked either by myself or by Steam Support for security reasons. Account
>>> locks aren't behavior-based, and as such really shouldn't ban all my
>>> servers.
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can confirm, servers trying to log into a persistent account without
>>>> a qualifying phone get GSOwnerDenied. You need a qualifying non-VoIP phone
>>>> number (and to not be community banned).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Nicholas Hastings <
>>>> psycho...@alliedmods.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The prevailing theory is that after yesterday's Steam maintenance, TF2
>>>>> now requires GSLT's to be tied to a Steam account with a qualifying phone
>>>>> number tied to it. This is the same as CS:GO's requirement and was already
>>>>> coming to TF2 eventually.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot reproduce the issues with one of my own GSLTs, which is tied
>>>>> to an account that qualifies.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nicholas Hastings
>>>>> AlliedMods.net <http://www.alliedmods.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross Bemrose <rbemr...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:13 PM
>>>>> Ever since sometime yesterday, some (all?) TF2 servers that use GSLTs
>>>>> (using sv_setsteamaccount) are having issues with other Steam services,
>>>>> such as the item server and workshop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did something change on the backend?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> please visit:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson*
>> Web Designer / Artist / Writer
>> Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/
>>
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Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF2: GSLTs causing issues?

[Alexander Corn]

Double-email, but on the topic of qualifying accounts, it would be really,
really nice to not have all my servers delisted if my account gets locked
either by myself or by Steam Support for security reasons. Account locks
aren't behavior-based, and as such really shouldn't ban all my servers.

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com>
wrote:

> I can confirm, servers trying to log into a persistent account without a
> qualifying phone get GSOwnerDenied. You need a qualifying non-VoIP phone
> number (and to not be community banned).
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Nicholas Hastings <
> psycho...@alliedmods.net> wrote:
>
>> The prevailing theory is that after yesterday's Steam maintenance, TF2
>> now requires GSLT's to be tied to a Steam account with a qualifying phone
>> number tied to it. This is the same as CS:GO's requirement and was already
>> coming to TF2 eventually.
>>
>> I cannot reproduce the issues with one of my own GSLTs, which is tied to
>> an account that qualifies.
>>
>> --
>> Nicholas Hastings
>> AlliedMods.net <http://www.alliedmods.net>
>>
>> Ross Bemrose <rbemr...@gmail.com>
>> Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:13 PM
>> Ever since sometime yesterday, some (all?) TF2 servers that use GSLTs
>> (using sv_setsteamaccount) are having issues with other Steam services,
>> such as the item server and workshop.
>>
>> Did something change on the backend?
>>
>>
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>> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] TF2: GSLTs causing issues?

[Alexander Corn]

I can confirm, servers trying to log into a persistent account without a
qualifying phone get GSOwnerDenied. You need a qualifying non-VoIP phone
number (and to not be community banned).

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Nicholas Hastings  wrote:

> The prevailing theory is that after yesterday's Steam maintenance, TF2 now
> requires GSLT's to be tied to a Steam account with a qualifying phone
> number tied to it. This is the same as CS:GO's requirement and was already
> coming to TF2 eventually.
>
> I cannot reproduce the issues with one of my own GSLTs, which is tied to
> an account that qualifies.
>
> --
> Nicholas Hastings
> AlliedMods.net 
>
> Ross Bemrose 
> Wednesday, May 18, 2016 6:13 PM
> Ever since sometime yesterday, some (all?) TF2 servers that use GSLTs
> (using sv_setsteamaccount) are having issues with other Steam services,
> such as the item server and workshop.
>
> Did something change on the backend?
>
>
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> please visit:
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>
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Re: [hlds] TF2 - Upcoming game server account requirements

[Alexander Corn]

They are saying that you'll only need a gameserver account for "new
features". I'm hoping that these features are inclusion in Quickplay
without the need for players to toggle an obscure setting. So they won't
need to add a gameserver account probably.

Of course, that isn't an answer to whether or not those servers could
possibly face any repercussions if they do (as there are other benefits as
well that don't involve Quickplay).

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Tohru Adachi  wrote:

> There's a well known server chain that does this, although on
> non-Quickplay servers. My question being that will this chain face action
> from Valve when the GSLT system comes into effect?
>
>
> On 13/05/2016 22:55, ics wrote:
>
>> If you do this, you should be banned off from running servers. Those
>> people don't own the items that you give them against money.
>>
>> Those are against quickplay rules, you shouldn't be connected to
>> quickplay at all if you do this.
>> https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2825-AFGJ-3513
>>
>> "Granting or modifying economy items, or taking actions that devalue
>> players' items, or interfering with the TF2 economy"
>>
>> -ics
>>
>> Tohru Adachi kirjoitti:
>>
>>> What about communities which allow players to donate in exchange for
>>> manipulating their equipped items i.e. adding an unusual particle to an
>>> equipped cosmetic?
>>> Will action be taken against these servers?
>>>
>>> On 13/05/2016 22:13, John Schoenick wrote:
>>>
 While spoofing ownership of econ items remains against community rules,
 TF has a client-side system to mitigate this and it is not currently a
 widespread issue. We are not currently planning on adding any new
 restrictions on custom gamemodes etc..


 *From:* A Fearts
 *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 1:12PM
 *To:* Half-life Dedicated Win32 Server Mailing List
 *Subject:* Re: [hlds] TF2 - Upcoming game server account requirements


 Maybe it isn't a worry for you if you are running completely vanilla
 quick play servers. However, for someone like myself who runs custom game
 modes it's very troubling. For example if they start banning TF2Items based
 plugins or custom player skins. If you saw what happened in CS:GO with the
 mass bans there then you would be concerned also.

 On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 4:03 PM, Chase McIntyre <
 chasenmcint...@gmail.com > wrote:

 How does this worry you? What exactly is your argument?

 On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 4:00 PM, A Fearts
  wrote:

 Makes me very worried. If you saw how they were handling bans
 on "bad" accounts in CS:GO you would be worried too.

 On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:53 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com>
 wrote:

 This sounds promising :)

 On May 13, 2016 3:51 PM, "John Schoenick"
  wrote:

 Hey everyone,

 I wanted to give a heads-up about some upcoming
 changes to the way server accounts work in TF.

 In an future update, we are going to be introducing
 features that will only be available to game servers
 that have a registered game server SteamID, via the
 Game Server Login Token (GSLT) system.  This system
 has existed for some time, but is currently only used
 in TF for persistent favouriting in the server
 browser.  It has also gained some more restrictions
 recently that you should be aware of.

 - Game server accounts are tied to an owning Steam
 user account
 - This Steam account must not be currently community
 banned or locked.
 - This Steam account must not be limited
 .
 - This Steam account must have a qualifying
 registered phone
 <
 https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8625-WRAH-9030=english
 >.
 - Game servers that violate the community guidelines
 for the game they are hosting may have their access
 suspended or revoked.
 - Game server account suspensions or bans also apply
 to *all* other game servers tied to said Steam user

 More info and management tools are here:
 https://steamcommunity.com/dev/managegameservers

 For TF specifically, being free-to-play, access to
 some upcoming features may eventually depend on the
 

Re: [hlds] TF2 - Upcoming game server account requirements

[Alexander Corn]

How about econ items that can't exist anyway? For example attaching Flying
Bits to weapons.

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 5:13 PM, John Schoenick 
wrote:

> While spoofing ownership of econ items remains against community rules, TF
> has a client-side system to mitigate this and it is not currently a
> widespread issue.  We are not currently planning on adding any new
> restrictions on custom gamemodes etc..
>
>
> *From:* A Fearts
> *Sent:* Friday, May 13, 2016 1:12PM
> *To:* Half-life Dedicated Win32 Server Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] TF2 - Upcoming game server account requirements
>
> Maybe it isn't a worry for you if you are running completely vanilla quick
> play servers. However, for someone like myself who runs custom game modes
> it's very troubling. For example if they start banning TF2Items based
> plugins or custom player skins. If you saw what happened in CS:GO with the
> mass bans there then you would be concerned also.
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 4:03 PM, Chase McIntyre 
> wrote:
>
>> How does this worry you? What exactly is your argument?
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 4:00 PM, A Fearts < 
>> joewatshis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Makes me very worried. If you saw how they were handling bans on "bad"
>>> accounts in CS:GO you would be worried too.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:53 PM, 1nsane < <1nsane...@gmail.com>
>>> 1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 This sounds promising :)
 On May 13, 2016 3:51 PM, "John Schoenick" < 
 jo...@valvesoftware.com> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I wanted to give a heads-up about some upcoming changes to the way
> server accounts work in TF.
>
> In an future update, we are going to be introducing features that will
> only be available to game servers that have a registered game server
> SteamID, via the Game Server Login Token (GSLT) system.  This system has
> existed for some time, but is currently only used in TF for persistent
> favouriting in the server browser.  It has also gained some more
> restrictions recently that you should be aware of.
>
> - Game server accounts are tied to an owning Steam user account
> - This Steam account must not be currently community banned or locked.
> - This Steam account must not be limited
> .
> - This Steam account must have a qualifying registered phone
> 
> .
> - Game servers that violate the community guidelines for the game they
> are hosting may have their access suspended or revoked.
> - Game server account suspensions or bans also apply to *all* other
> game servers tied to said Steam user
>
> More info and management tools are here:
> 
> https://steamcommunity.com/dev/managegameservers
>
> For TF specifically, being free-to-play, access to some upcoming
> features may eventually depend on the qualifications the owning Steam user
> account.  So, while creating dedicated individual user accounts to own
> individual game servers is possible, it may lead to an increased burden in
> the future.  We recommend game server accounts be registered to the Steam
> account of the acting server owner -- GSPs should require clients to
> provide their own tokens.
>
> This change will allow us to have a greater level of confidence in
> game servers, by making it easier to revoke access for bad actors and
> better tying game servers to their owners.  The increased persistence 
> gives
> us many more opportunities to assign trust to community servers, and to
> provide them access to features that would otherwise be too open for
> abuse.  It also provides a much better mechanism for dealing with abuse
> than the current IP-ban system that is both less effective and more 
> painful
> for server providers that share IPs between clients.
>
> We will have more information once we are ready to begin rolling out
> these features, but I wanted to send this heads up such that current 
> admins
> and server providers can look into integrating this support into their
> setups.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions or concerns and I will try to
> address them,
> - Neph
>
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Re: [hlds] TF2 - Upcoming game server account requirements

[Alexander Corn]

>This Steam account must not be currently community banned or locked.

This part makes me nervous. If I suspect that my account may be compromised
and I self-lock it, you'll punish me by taking down all my servers? Steam
Support has also been known to lock accounts at their discretion due to
"suspicious activity". I'd like to see this part changed.

Alex

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 3:51 PM, John Schoenick 
wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> I wanted to give a heads-up about some upcoming changes to the way server
> accounts work in TF.
>
> In an future update, we are going to be introducing features that will
> only be available to game servers that have a registered game server
> SteamID, via the Game Server Login Token (GSLT) system.  This system has
> existed for some time, but is currently only used in TF for persistent
> favouriting in the server browser.  It has also gained some more
> restrictions recently that you should be aware of.
>
> - Game server accounts are tied to an owning Steam user account
> - This Steam account must not be currently community banned or locked.
> - This Steam account must not be limited
> .
> - This Steam account must have a qualifying registered phone
> 
> .
> - Game servers that violate the community guidelines for the game they are
> hosting may have their access suspended or revoked.
> - Game server account suspensions or bans also apply to *all* other game
> servers tied to said Steam user
>
> More info and management tools are here:
> https://steamcommunity.com/dev/managegameservers
>
> For TF specifically, being free-to-play, access to some upcoming features
> may eventually depend on the qualifications the owning Steam user account.
> So, while creating dedicated individual user accounts to own individual
> game servers is possible, it may lead to an increased burden in the
> future.  We recommend game server accounts be registered to the Steam
> account of the acting server owner -- GSPs should require clients to
> provide their own tokens.
>
> This change will allow us to have a greater level of confidence in game
> servers, by making it easier to revoke access for bad actors and better
> tying game servers to their owners.  The increased persistence gives us
> many more opportunities to assign trust to community servers, and to
> provide them access to features that would otherwise be too open for
> abuse.  It also provides a much better mechanism for dealing with abuse
> than the current IP-ban system that is both less effective and more painful
> for server providers that share IPs between clients.
>
> We will have more information once we are ready to begin rolling out these
> features, but I wanted to send this heads up such that current admins and
> server providers can look into integrating this support into their setups.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions or concerns and I will try to
> address them,
> - Neph
>
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Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

All TF2 community servers right now: 18,631 players
All Valve Halloween servers right now: 21,047 players

Talk is cheap. Please follow through on what you promise.

Why can't these Merasmissions be completed on community servers? The
cosmetics that they drop are untradable and uncraftable. There is literally
no potential for abuse, unless for some reason Valve cares about the stats
on the gargoyle coin (and they've never cared about farmed stranges in the
past).

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 5:22 PM, John Schoenick 
wrote:

> Hey guys, with today's update we're introducing a few new features that
> will impact servers, and I just wanted to give you guys a heads up.
>
> There is a new quickplay category, featured, that represents the featured
> maps for a given campaign. In order to have your server in this category,
> you need to be running the mapcycle mapcycle_featured_maps.txt, and have
> the special string 'featured' in your quickplay tags.
>
> Today's update also introduces contracts, which currently require players
> be on official servers to complete. Unfortunately, our current setup makes
> it very difficult to restrict features like this other than in an
> all-or-nothing manner, and we determined this was necessary to protect the
> system from immediate abuse.
>
> We agree this is not ideal. We are continuing the look at the situation
> with community servers and how we can better support passionate
> communities, but currently have nothing to announce.
>
> - JohnS
>
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Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

 ad system
>>> wasnt part of the ongoing problem. people could farm 30,000 ads from you
>>> per day using fake identities and text mode. but you knew that being a tf2
>>> community owner. so essentially you're right, its not the ads themselves
>>> that are the problem its the people like you serving them fraudulently then
>>> hiding behind some dead link email address trying to veer the topic away
>>> from advertisements so no one knows you are one of the scumbags behind the
>>> problem
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Paul <ubyu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How about we stay on topic here?
>>>>
>>>> On 4 September 2015 at 10:42, Pat Stay <patsta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >Paul ubyu@gmail.com via
>>>>> <https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1311182?hl=en>
>>>>> list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>> 6:47 AM (22 hours ago)
>>>>> >to Half-Life
>>>>> >Fact is I don't believe they care anymore, mostly motivated on ways
>>>>> to make more profit than community support :(.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> irony, brought to you in part by the thieves of motdgd
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:37 PM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm getting them as well, just set up a filter in Gmail to route
>>>>>> those messages to the trash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Paul <ubyu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apologies for going off topic, but I keep getting spam from
>>>>>>> different emails from someone called 'Amy Happy' via this mailing list.
>>>>>>> Other than unsubscribing from this mailing list or changing email 
>>>>>>> address,
>>>>>>> is there any way I can stop this spam mail being sent to me (I assume
>>>>>>> others here are getting these messages to from her)?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3 September 2015 at 21:41, Ross Bemrose <rbemr...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are a few things added even just recently that are aimed
>>>>>>>> squarely at community servers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One big example of this is the Map Workshop.  Valve servers don't
>>>>>>>> use the map workshop... it exists solely to make it easier to run a
>>>>>>>> community server without needing to host maps on your server (or Fast
>>>>>>>> Download server).  It may have taken 3 months, but it looks like all 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> bugs have finally been ironed out of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even minor things like changing the passtime cvars so that they
>>>>>>>> aren't marked as cheats were done for community servers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does this make up for separating community servers from official
>>>>>>>> Valve servers?  Probably not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the business model, it's pretty clear why QuickPlay was
>>>>>>>> introduced into the game if you look at *when* it was introduced.  
>>>>>>>> Valve
>>>>>>>> servers and Quickplay were introduced in the Uber Update, the same 
>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>> that made the game free to play.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words, it was introduced as a hook to get people to play
>>>>>>>> the game and spend money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It wasn't really a surprise to anyone who used QuickPlay that Valve
>>>>>>>> eventually changed it to default to Valve servers... people already
>>>>>>>> explained the reason why further up the thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's also not a surprise that Gun Mettle contracts are restricted
>>>>>>>> to official servers.  If they weren't, some enterprising person would 
>>>>>>>> write
>>>>>>>> a serv

Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

If only there were some kind of system where servers could be associated
with an "account" persistently, allowing the master server to track the
"reputation" of that server and decide which to deem trustworthy.

It's really a shame that such a system doesn't exist...

McKay

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Ross Bemrose  wrote:

> There are a few things added even just recently that are aimed squarely at
> community servers.
>
> One big example of this is the Map Workshop.  Valve servers don't use the
> map workshop... it exists solely to make it easier to run a community
> server without needing to host maps on your server (or Fast Download
> server).  It may have taken 3 months, but it looks like all the bugs have
> finally been ironed out of it.
>
> Even minor things like changing the passtime cvars so that they aren't
> marked as cheats were done for community servers.
>
> Does this make up for separating community servers from official Valve
> servers?  Probably not.
>
> As for the business model, it's pretty clear why QuickPlay was introduced
> into the game if you look at *when* it was introduced.  Valve servers and
> Quickplay were introduced in the Uber Update, the same update that made the
> game free to play.
>
> In other words, it was introduced as a hook to get people to play the game
> and spend money.
>
> It wasn't really a surprise to anyone who used QuickPlay that Valve
> eventually changed it to default to Valve servers... people already
> explained the reason why further up the thread.
>
> It's also not a surprise that Gun Mettle contracts are restricted to
> official servers.  If they weren't, some enterprising person would write a
> server script that duplicates the actions needed to award points and just
> use it to farm from a ton of accounts, which would in turn drive down the
> value of economy items.
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:05 PM, ICS Staff  wrote:
>
>> 2005, community servers were first party servers, there were no Valve
>> servers.
>>
>> 2014, community servers are 3rd party servers, Valve servers give you XP,
>> drops from missions, players get directed only to Valve servers and
>> community servers are in separate pool completely.
>>
>> What's next, you take away the drops too or are you really going to do
>> something to keep us running servers or not? Too afraid to have open
>> discussion about the matter? Yeah, thought so.
>>
>> -ics
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Bemrose
>
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Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

I'm getting them as well, just set up a filter in Gmail to route those
messages to the trash.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Paul  wrote:

> Apologies for going off topic, but I keep getting spam from different
> emails from someone called 'Amy Happy' via this mailing list. Other than
> unsubscribing from this mailing list or changing email address, is there
> any way I can stop this spam mail being sent to me (I assume others here
> are getting these messages to from her)?
>
> On 3 September 2015 at 21:41, Ross Bemrose  wrote:
>
>> There are a few things added even just recently that are aimed squarely
>> at community servers.
>>
>> One big example of this is the Map Workshop.  Valve servers don't use the
>> map workshop... it exists solely to make it easier to run a community
>> server without needing to host maps on your server (or Fast Download
>> server).  It may have taken 3 months, but it looks like all the bugs have
>> finally been ironed out of it.
>>
>> Even minor things like changing the passtime cvars so that they aren't
>> marked as cheats were done for community servers.
>>
>> Does this make up for separating community servers from official Valve
>> servers?  Probably not.
>>
>> As for the business model, it's pretty clear why QuickPlay was introduced
>> into the game if you look at *when* it was introduced.  Valve servers and
>> Quickplay were introduced in the Uber Update, the same update that made the
>> game free to play.
>>
>> In other words, it was introduced as a hook to get people to play the
>> game and spend money.
>>
>> It wasn't really a surprise to anyone who used QuickPlay that Valve
>> eventually changed it to default to Valve servers... people already
>> explained the reason why further up the thread.
>>
>> It's also not a surprise that Gun Mettle contracts are restricted to
>> official servers.  If they weren't, some enterprising person would write a
>> server script that duplicates the actions needed to award points and just
>> use it to farm from a ton of accounts, which would in turn drive down the
>> value of economy items.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:05 PM, ICS Staff  wrote:
>>
>>> 2005, community servers were first party servers, there were no Valve
>>> servers.
>>>
>>> 2014, community servers are 3rd party servers, Valve servers give you
>>> XP, drops from missions, players get directed only to Valve servers and
>>> community servers are in separate pool completely.
>>>
>>> What's next, you take away the drops too or are you really going to do
>>> something to keep us running servers or not? Too afraid to have open
>>> discussion about the matter? Yeah, thought so.
>>>
>>> -ics
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ross Bemrose
>>
>> ___
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>> please visit:
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

>We agree this is not ideal. We are continuing the look at the situation
with community servers and how we can better support passionate
communities, but currently have nothing to announce.

So how's it coming? It's been a few months now and as usual, nothing has
happened. I know that as without being a server op, I would find Valve
servers distasteful. There's something about being votekicked for killing
players on the other team that just makes the gameplay experience
unsatisfactory.


Thanks,
Alexander "Dr. McKay" Corn


On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 5:22 PM, John Schoenick 
wrote:

> Hey guys, with today's update we're introducing a few new features that
> will impact servers, and I just wanted to give you guys a heads up.
>
> There is a new quickplay category, featured, that represents the featured
> maps for a given campaign. In order to have your server in this category,
> you need to be running the mapcycle mapcycle_featured_maps.txt, and have
> the special string 'featured' in your quickplay tags.
>
> Today's update also introduces contracts, which currently require players
> be on official servers to complete. Unfortunately, our current setup makes
> it very difficult to restrict features like this other than in an
> all-or-nothing manner, and we determined this was necessary to protect the
> system from immediate abuse.
>
> We agree this is not ideal. We are continuing the look at the situation
> with community servers and how we can better support passionate
> communities, but currently have nothing to announce.
>
> - JohnS
>
> ___
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] SteamCMD connection to a specific Master Server

[Alexander Corn]

The list of CMs that SteamCMD will connect to is stored in a vdf file under
config if I recall correctly. You could try removing all blocked addresses
from that list before startup.

The list is overwritten every time you log on though, so you'll need to
update it every time.

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 11:49 AM, pilger pilger...@gmail.com wrote:

 Where are you gathering these data about Brazil's government censorship?

 Kinda hard to believe that. I think it's much more likely the networks are
 being blocked out as counter-measures for dos or ddos attacks comming
 from other countries, where services are extremely cheaper. So instead of
 properly blocking just the attacks, they shut down entire routes of
 communication.

 I really don't think the government here gives a tiny rats ass for what
 people are browsing on the internet.


 _pilger

 On 28 July 2015 at 11:06, Andre Müller gbs.dead...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh, did not know that. Censorship is not good.

 Korrey Moore ajac...@gmail.com schrieb am Di., 28. Juli 2015 um
 13:50 Uhr:

 Your ISP isn't the problem, it's the government. Brazil is worse than
 China in regards to blocking foreign websites according to recent data.
 This is why you don't have any problems visiting .br domains, but have
 problems going anywhere else.

 There are a few ways to work around the problem:

 1) Relocate the server to somewhere outside of Brazil and ensure it's
 not on a network blocked by the government.

 2) Use a system wide proxy from another country on the game server while
 SteamCMD is updating. This may or may not work depending on if the hardware
 doing the blocking does packet inspection.

 3) Use an encrypted VPN tunnel on the server to a location outside the
 country. This could suffer the same problem as the proxy, but it's less
 likely.

 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 2:00 PM, hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com
 wrote:

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 Today's Topics:

1. Re: SteamCMD connection to a specific Master Server (Andre M?ller)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 07:27:58 +
 From: Andre M?ller gbs.dead...@gmail.com
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] SteamCMD connection to a specific Master Server
 Message-ID:
 CAJL1nTT85kM2xoDgMcM6swXipgPZHMgKpHOYzzYRmU=
 fjjs...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8



 Changing the Provider is a good solution. If they are blocking the whole
 traffic, a possible solution is only a workaround, not a real solution.
 Forcing the tool to a specific ip address is not good. Valve may change
 the
 IP-Addresses of the masterservers and then you starting to seek the next
 working ip.

 Marco Ramos m...@live.com schrieb am So., 26. Juli 2015 um 06:59 Uhr:

  Hello. Is there a way to make my SteamCMD server connects to a
 specific
  Master Server? I'm having a serious problem with my provider as they
 don't
  recognize themselves as culprits in this situation. For some reason,
 they
  are blocking connections from my server to a lot of .com, .net and
 .org
  servers, meaning my TF2 servers can't connect to Valve Master Server
 and
  can't get VAC or items. However, if the server connects to a different
  server, like a brazilian server (since my server is located in
 Brazil),
  everything works as it should. So, is there a way to do it? Thanks!
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Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

 to an overall image problem with community
 servers and in itself gives players additional reason to use Quickplay
 instead of the server browser. (Quickplay being completely immune to MOTD
 adverts after all).






 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Paul ubyu@gmail.com wrote:

 I hate to correct some people here, but advertising is no longer an
 issue so I don't see why it has been brought up when it's no longer a
 problem. HTML MOTD is not possible when the client joins via matchmaking 
 or
 quickplay, Valve changed that a long time ago. Sure, there are a few rogue
 servers which physically force you to re-enable HTML MOTD cvar if you
 disabled it, but even then if you join via matchmaking or quickplay you
 still can't see it, so it's moot. Thanks :).

 On 5 July 2015 at 05:28, Alexander Corn mc...@doctormckay.com wrote:

 The entire point of Quickplay from the get-go was to help people to
 easily find servers offering vanilla-ish gameplay. That is, major game
 settings are set to their defaults, no custom gamemodes, no game-breaking
 donor perks, etc.

 It's a decent idea, the only problem is that Valve added it and then 
 *ignored
 it*. Then people started realizing that they can register for
 Quickplay and pretend to be vanilla and nothing bad would happen to them
 for months, if ever.

 To this date, I'm not quite sure that anyone at Valve even looks at
 reports submitted with the in-game report tool (or the bug reporter 
 either,
 for that matter).

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Cats From Above 
 spotsfromab...@gmail.com wrote:

 Your version of events borders on white-knighting, in my honest
 opinion. Valve has a share of blame for allowing an environment where
 unscrupulous operators were rewarded financially simply by getting 
 people
 to join thier servers. The rise of Pinion and the like was attractive to
 individuals who wanted to cash-in on advertising. And what better way to
 boost your profits then by tricking players into joining your servers
 thinking that they were fuller than what they were or that they had real
 people on them. MOTD Advertising is what made that deception attractive 
 -
 it was the reward behind it all. Yes, the players would disconnect the
 second they realised that the server was empty or that they were playing
 against bots, but the operator still got to cash in on an impression.

 So did Quickplay solve the problem? No. Why? Because it didn't
 remove the sugar from the table. Rather it just meant that instead of
 deceiving the player (Who would have likely remembered the name of a bad
 community) the unscrupulous operators were now deceiving Quickplay 
 instead
 - How grand it must have been for operators intending to run cash-cow
 servers to have Quickplay steering unsuspecting traffic to them. In my 
 view
 that made the situation worse and in a manner that was reasonably
 foreseeable. Yet somehow it escaped Valve. What they should have done 
 was
 killed the notion of MOTD advertising from the onset so that a business
 model built on deception wasn't financially lucrative. Instead they had 
 a
 knee-jerk reaction and banished all community servers (good and bad) 
 from
 the primary Quickplay pool. Some people would say this response is a
 colossal non-sequitur and they'd be right.

 I wrote a 1400 word response on this topic but I decided that I
 could make my point with the summary above and that such would probably 
 be
 more appreciated than a giant wall of text. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Phillip Vector 
 t...@mostdeadlygame.com wrote:

 What you just said implies that *every *community server provides
 a modified game-play experience, which is not only a dubious claim but 
 one
 that almost certainly stems from a distinct level of benightedness.

 A modified game-play experience, yes. Even if it's just placing a
 text ad every 5 mins., it is a difference experience than stock. I did 
 not
 mean to imply that all community servers modify game play. But I would 
 be
 interested in seeing one community server that operates like the 
 default
 Valve servers do.

 There are community servers out there, many of them, which offer
 a vanilla experience in aspects of game-play. My question to you is why
 should those servers be treated as second-class citizens to Valve 
 servers
 by default.

 They shouldn't. However, I don't know how long you have been part
 of this, but I recall when community servers weren't treated 
 differently.
 Some were terrible and cheated the system to trick players joining 
 their
 servers. When Valve tried to stop them, they cheated the system more. 
 Even
 after Valve constantly tried to help those community servers who 
 played by
 the rules, the community kept calling foul.

 So eventually, Valve (rightly so IMHO) said Fuck it and made all
 community servers suspect.

 Valve is on the right track giving community servers who play by
 the rules equal standing for valve servers. But I'm pretty sure

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

What's the problem, exactly? You're subjected to the horror that is an ad?
Please go on YouTube (with AdBlock off), watch a couple videos, then try to
tell me that YouTube is broken and is driving away users.

In a perfect world, people wouldn't flounder around helplessly and would
join a server that provides them with the gameplay experience that they
desire. But people are too lazy to do anything besides click a play button
and then complain to daddy Valve when they don't get what they want.

Maybe you have a point if you're complaining about the fact that ads
continue playing in the background when you click Continue, but those
complaints should be taken up with the ad provider, not with the server op
or with Valve.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Matthias InstantMuffin Kollek 
proph...@sticed.org wrote:

  I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are a
 huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that
 connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on.
 Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the
 average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his
 display resolution.

 In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends,
 create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a
 gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting was
 driven by passion.
 Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants to
 run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn money
 from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way.
 Solution is fairly simple. Have a strict report system to remove servers
 from the list. Yes, for gods sake, it won't remove every single shit server
 there is, but it's a decent first step. Evaluate, and go from there. It's
 not like Valve wouldn't spit in server-ops' faces. The issue is they don't
 pick the right ones.

 Luckily, I can't say much about the pinion-official-server debate, we were
 quite unaffected in the EU. I must say however, the pinion people on spuf
 get a lot of respect from me. A lot of people shit on them for the right
 reasons, and they keep it together. I couldn't do that, god only knows.

 On 05.07.2015 19:59, Alexander Corn wrote:

  Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many
 of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance
 issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a
 multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to
 make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense?

  But I digress. Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players
 still have that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done
 about it. Best to just flip the switch back to all servers by default (and
 reset Valve's quickplay scores, they're very artificially inflated now).

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:29 AM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Agreed.

  Donation-driven communities were how servers were operated for years
 (and how many still do). To suggest that there has been some kind of
 fundamental shift in the game's demographic that would prevent that model
 from working now is simply not true.

  In fact, those very same people who were willing to support a server
 community in the first years of TF2 existence now have even more disposable
 income should they wish to do so.

  The difference between the two funding models is that as opposed to
 those MOTD ads, a server community that is supported through donations has
 to provide enough actual value to players that they CHOOSE to support that
 community/server. MOTD ads simply monetize anyone that connects, without
 providing any additional value (and in so many cases, because the system is
 so open to abuse, the servers are/were barely suitable for running TF2 at
 all in terms of performance).

  There seems to be a misconception here, though. I'm certainly not
 saying that all servers/communities that run those ads are bad. Far from
 it. Nor am I saying that those who use them are somehow doing so in a
 malicious or underhanded manner.

  However, I AM saying that when something that has been allowed to be
 used on community servers sullies the general reputation of those very
 servers so much that we actually have players that resist the slightest
 change that would give community servers a little more exposure, then
 perhaps it is time to start the conversation about whether it is in the
 best interest of community servers operators as a whole to continue to
 allow those ads to function.

  Frankly, if we have choose between restoring and rebuilding player
 confidence in the quality of community servers, or  allowing those ads to
 run until there are no players left willing to set foot on a community
 server, the answer would seem to be an easy one

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

So then go to Pinion, MOTDgd, et al and insist that ads have a reasonable
sound level or else they get banned from the game entirely. Sounds like a
better solution that trying to stamp out every server which uses ads, no?

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Matthias InstantMuffin Kollek 
proph...@sticed.org wrote:

  Your schedule must be pretty busy, following your rule you literally have
 to complain about overwatch, the community profile reporting system, the
 csgo server reporting system, the tf2 abuse report system, steam discussion
 reporting system, spuf...

 There's well-known established solutions to handle this kind of noise.
 It's a really old issue.

 @McKay: Sound. It's mostly the sound. Those ads have an insanely high
 volume. I know hearing loss is actually very common among younger people
 these days, but I want to be a lonely exception and keep my hearing.
 Seriously, they're loud as fuck.
 I wouldn't mind the occasional ad if it were at an acceptable noise level
 and *necessary for a community with decent servers and content to survive*
 .


 On 05.07.2015 20:36, Michael Loveless wrote:

  ​Yes, having a reporting system that removed servers from the list
 definitely isn't something that would be abused more than MOTD
 advertisements. That pub community with 5-10k members surely couldn't wipe
 out their entire up and coming competition, ya know, those who are trying
 to grow their community organically without simple advertisements that can
 be muted, disabled, or clicked through...

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Matthias InstantMuffin Kollek 
 proph...@sticed.org wrote:

  I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are
 a huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that
 connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on.
 Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the
 average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his
 display resolution.

 In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends,
 create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a
 gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting was
 driven by passion.
 Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants
 to run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn
 money from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way.
 Solution is fairly simple. Have a strict report system to remove servers
 from the list. Yes, for gods sake, it won't remove every single shit server
 there is, but it's a decent first step. Evaluate, and go from there. It's
 not like Valve wouldn't spit in server-ops' faces. The issue is they don't
 pick the right ones.

 Luckily, I can't say much about the pinion-official-server debate, we
 were quite unaffected in the EU. I must say however, the pinion people on
 spuf get a lot of respect from me. A lot of people shit on them for the
 right reasons, and they keep it together. I couldn't do that, god only
 knows.

 On 05.07.2015 19:59, Alexander Corn wrote:

  Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many
 of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance
 issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a
 multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to
 make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense?

  But I digress. Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if
 players still have that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be
 done about it. Best to just flip the switch back to all servers by default
 (and reset Valve's quickplay scores, they're very artificially inflated
 now).

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:29 AM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Agreed.

  Donation-driven communities were how servers were operated for years
 (and how many still do). To suggest that there has been some kind of
 fundamental shift in the game's demographic that would prevent that model
 from working now is simply not true.

  In fact, those very same people who were willing to support a server
 community in the first years of TF2 existence now have even more disposable
 income should they wish to do so.

  The difference between the two funding models is that as opposed to
 those MOTD ads, a server community that is supported through donations has
 to provide enough actual value to players that they CHOOSE to support that
 community/server. MOTD ads simply monetize anyone that connects, without
 providing any additional value (and in so many cases, because the system is
 so open to abuse, the servers are/were barely suitable for running TF2 at
 all in terms of performance).

  There seems to be a misconception here, though. I'm certainly not
 saying that all servers/communities that run those ads are bad. Far from
 it. Nor am I saying that those who use them are somehow doing so in a
 malicious or underhanded

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

You know what else would prevent fraud? Turning off trading entirely. That
doesn't mean that it would be a good idea.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Ross Bemrose rbemr...@gmail.com wrote:

  Do you have some sort of data that shows the 30-day untradability for
 Steam Gifts and 7-day untradability for store-bought/market-bought items
 aren't preventing fraud?

 That's what those restrictions were put into place for.  If they are
 managing to lower the fraud rate through those particular channels, then
 Valve wasn't wrong about them and they are working as intended.


 On 7/5/2015 2:58 PM, Alexander Corn wrote:

  Paid mods are the only thing in recent memory that I can think of with
 Valve admitting they made a mistake. There are plenty of other negative
 changes that I can think of which are still alive and kicking (30-day
 untradability for Steam Gifts, 7-day untradability for
 store-bought/market-bought items, etc). As far as I can tell, Valve only
 admits they're wrong when they start to receive a large volume of negative
 emails.

  If they want to bring community servers back to equal footing on the
 condition that nobody can run ads anymore, then so be it. I just think that
 they're treating a symptom and not the actual problem. The actual problem
 is that (apparently) players aren't able to easily find desirable servers.
 But is desirable really well defined? Is a server with a skippable ad
 okay? Is a server with a 5-second ad okay? 10 seconds? Is a server with
 round-end donor immunity okay? Desirability is really subjective.
 Personally, even as a non-server-op I think that Valve servers are
 completely undesirable for various reasons, including performance, skill
 level, and lack of moderation.

  I think that Quickplay at its core is a flawed concept, but I'd be fine
 with them restoring all servers to Quickplay by default with the current
 Quickplay rules. The problem is that Valve is too lazy to moderate
 Quickplay at all. They'd rather cripple Quickplay to a point where it's
 unprofitable to put undesirable servers into its pool. Which also affects
 every other community server at the same time.

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:49 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

  Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many
 of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance
 issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a
 multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to
 make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense?


  The fact that valve did it sure as hell doesn't mean it was a good
 idea. I'm sure they would be the first to admit they're not infallible, and
 have made errors in judgement.

  Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players still have
 that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done about it.


  Of course there is. When there is a perception problem, you can take a
 proactive stance to fix what is causing that perception problem.  Like it
 or not, servers running those ads have caused a perception problem.

  At any rate, this is the same argument that has gone in circles for two
 years, and probably contributes to why Valve won't lift a finger to help
 communities still passionate about the game. The people who want the right
 to monetize a player connection with an ad impression will always scream at
 the top of their lungs that they should be allowed to do anything they
 want, and we've already seen Valve response to that.

  At any rate, I think the more prudent course is to continue to try to
 change Valve's mind directly. If people think all the cynicism and insults
 hurled Valve's way will change things, then by all means - keep in keeping
 on.

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Saint K. sai...@specialattack.net
 wrote:

  Amen.



 *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Matthias
 InstantMuffin Kollek
 *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 8:31 PM
 *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released



 I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are a
 huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that
 connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on.

 Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the
 average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his
 display resolution.

 In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends,
 create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a
 gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting was
 driven by passion.
 Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants
 to run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn
 money from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way.
 Solution is fairly simple. Have

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

Paid mods are the only thing in recent memory that I can think of with
Valve admitting they made a mistake. There are plenty of other negative
changes that I can think of which are still alive and kicking (30-day
untradability for Steam Gifts, 7-day untradability for
store-bought/market-bought items, etc). As far as I can tell, Valve only
admits they're wrong when they start to receive a large volume of negative
emails.

If they want to bring community servers back to equal footing on the
condition that nobody can run ads anymore, then so be it. I just think that
they're treating a symptom and not the actual problem. The actual problem
is that (apparently) players aren't able to easily find desirable servers.
But is desirable really well defined? Is a server with a skippable ad
okay? Is a server with a 5-second ad okay? 10 seconds? Is a server with
round-end donor immunity okay? Desirability is really subjective.
Personally, even as a non-server-op I think that Valve servers are
completely undesirable for various reasons, including performance, skill
level, and lack of moderation.

I think that Quickplay at its core is a flawed concept, but I'd be fine
with them restoring all servers to Quickplay by default with the current
Quickplay rules. The problem is that Valve is too lazy to moderate
Quickplay at all. They'd rather cripple Quickplay to a point where it's
unprofitable to put undesirable servers into its pool. Which also affects
every other community server at the same time.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:49 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many of
 the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance
 issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a
 multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to
 make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense?


 The fact that valve did it sure as hell doesn't mean it was a good idea.
 I'm sure they would be the first to admit they're not infallible, and have
 made errors in judgement.

 Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players still have that
 delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done about it.


 Of course there is. When there is a perception problem, you can take a
 proactive stance to fix what is causing that perception problem.  Like it
 or not, servers running those ads have caused a perception problem.

 At any rate, this is the same argument that has gone in circles for two
 years, and probably contributes to why Valve won't lift a finger to help
 communities still passionate about the game. The people who want the right
 to monetize a player connection with an ad impression will always scream at
 the top of their lungs that they should be allowed to do anything they
 want, and we've already seen Valve response to that.

 At any rate, I think the more prudent course is to continue to try to
 change Valve's mind directly. If people think all the cynicism and insults
 hurled Valve's way will change things, then by all means - keep in keeping
 on.

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Saint K. sai...@specialattack.net wrote:

 Amen.



 *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Matthias
 InstantMuffin Kollek
 *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 8:31 PM
 *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released



 I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are a
 huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that
 connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on.

 Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the
 average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his
 display resolution.

 In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends,
 create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a
 gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting was
 driven by passion.
 Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants
 to run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn
 money from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way.
 Solution is fairly simple. Have a strict report system to remove servers
 from the list. Yes, for gods sake, it won't remove every single shit server
 there is, but it's a decent first step. Evaluate, and go from there. It's
 not like Valve wouldn't spit in server-ops' faces. The issue is they don't
 pick the right ones.

 Luckily, I can't say much about the pinion-official-server debate, we
 were quite unaffected in the EU. I must say however, the pinion people on
 spuf get a lot of respect from me. A lot of people shit on them for the
 right reasons, and they keep it together. I couldn't do that, god only
 knows.

 On 05.07.2015 19:59, Alexander Corn wrote:

 Are we just

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

It was good start though. I'm sure that them looking into this further
will go nowhere, if the past is anything to go by.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Are you all really surprised by this? Valve doesn't care about community
 servers anymore. The moment 1 person complains that they couldn't wait 15
 seconds for quickplay, it gets removed.

 Anyway you are all acting like half life 3 was announced.

 The majority of players still click play now instead of using the server
 browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably does very
 little for your own servers.

 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Matthias InstantMuffin Kollek 
 proph...@sticed.org wrote:

 Endless waves of communities explaining how quickplay (and other changes
 ofc) destroys communities, nothing happens.
 Two people on the mailing list moan about valve servers being excluded
 from the list, instantfix. GJ


 On 04.07.2015 23:32, Kevin C wrote:

 You have got to be kidding me.

 http://i.imgur.com/tAmWXj6.png wink wink nudge nudge

 On 7/4/2015 5:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

 - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers
 not being listed in the server browser while we look into this further

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Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

The entire point of Quickplay from the get-go was to help people to easily
find servers offering vanilla-ish gameplay. That is, major game settings
are set to their defaults, no custom gamemodes, no game-breaking donor
perks, etc.

It's a decent idea, the only problem is that Valve added it and then *ignored
it*. Then people started realizing that they can register for Quickplay and
pretend to be vanilla and nothing bad would happen to them for months, if
ever.

To this date, I'm not quite sure that anyone at Valve even looks at reports
submitted with the in-game report tool (or the bug reporter either, for
that matter).

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Cats From Above spotsfromab...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Your version of events borders on white-knighting, in my honest opinion.
 Valve has a share of blame for allowing an environment where unscrupulous
 operators were rewarded financially simply by getting people to join thier
 servers. The rise of Pinion and the like was attractive to individuals who
 wanted to cash-in on advertising. And what better way to boost your profits
 then by tricking players into joining your servers thinking that they were
 fuller than what they were or that they had real people on them. MOTD
 Advertising is what made that deception attractive - it was the reward
 behind it all. Yes, the players would disconnect the second they realised
 that the server was empty or that they were playing against bots, but the
 operator still got to cash in on an impression.

 So did Quickplay solve the problem? No. Why? Because it didn't remove the
 sugar from the table. Rather it just meant that instead of deceiving the
 player (Who would have likely remembered the name of a bad community) the
 unscrupulous operators were now deceiving Quickplay instead - How grand it
 must have been for operators intending to run cash-cow servers to have
 Quickplay steering unsuspecting traffic to them. In my view that made the
 situation worse and in a manner that was reasonably foreseeable. Yet
 somehow it escaped Valve. What they should have done was killed the notion
 of MOTD advertising from the onset so that a business model built on
 deception wasn't financially lucrative. Instead they had a knee-jerk
 reaction and banished all community servers (good and bad) from the primary
 Quickplay pool. Some people would say this response is a colossal
 non-sequitur and they'd be right.

 I wrote a 1400 word response on this topic but I decided that I could make
 my point with the summary above and that such would probably be more
 appreciated than a giant wall of text. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Phillip Vector t...@mostdeadlygame.com
 wrote:

 What you just said implies that *every *community server provides a
 modified game-play experience, which is not only a dubious claim but one
 that almost certainly stems from a distinct level of benightedness.

 A modified game-play experience, yes. Even if it's just placing a text ad
 every 5 mins., it is a difference experience than stock. I did not mean to
 imply that all community servers modify game play. But I would be
 interested in seeing one community server that operates like the default
 Valve servers do.

 There are community servers out there, many of them, which offer a
 vanilla experience in aspects of game-play. My question to you is why
 should those servers be treated as second-class citizens to Valve servers
 by default.

 They shouldn't. However, I don't know how long you have been part of
 this, but I recall when community servers weren't treated differently. Some
 were terrible and cheated the system to trick players joining their
 servers. When Valve tried to stop them, they cheated the system more. Even
 after Valve constantly tried to help those community servers who played by
 the rules, the community kept calling foul.

 So eventually, Valve (rightly so IMHO) said Fuck it and made all
 community servers suspect.

 Valve is on the right track giving community servers who play by the
 rules equal standing for valve servers. But I'm pretty sure that some
 community is going to start gaming the system and Valve will have to say,
 Fuck it again.




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Re: [hlds] Mandatory TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

Now my history tab is empty

Did you even check? Valve servers are/were still listed in the history tab.
The change merely added a condition to the Internet tab's master server
query to not return any servers with the 'valve' tag.

Official MvM servers aren't listed on the master server *at all*, and yet
they still show up in my history. History is stored client-side and ignores
any master server limitations or delisting.

If you're going to complain about a change, please try to at least know
what you're talking about. Then again, this is a mailing list for *server
operators*, not client feedback.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Dominik Friedrichs d...@forlix.org wrote:

 I never bothered to add them to favorites. I simply used the history tab
 to pick a Valve server with the map of choice. Now my history tab is empty
 and while I can use Quickplay/Show servers to pick a certain map, I cant
 right click there to View server info in order to find out if thats the
 server I just left for whatever repelling reason. Guess it will be trial
 and error from now on - oh the progress...

 Honestly when I read the suggestion a few days ago I was weighing in
 safety that Valve would never implement it.


 On 2015/07/04 17:07, ics wrote:

 You had over 2 years of time to find a Valve server and add that to
 favorites. How many do you have in favorites? Look in the mirror if you
 have 0 or cant find any.

 -ics

 AJ DeTorrice kirjoitti:


 I actually really dislike that valve decided to remove their servers
 from the server browser. Nine times out of ten, I don't want to play
 your terrible 24/7 server with class limits. There definitely needs to
 be a toggle to include valve servers in the server browser. IMO,
 quickplay takes too long to find a server to be useful.


 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015, 3:30 AM Paul ubyu@gmail.com
 mailto:ubyu@gmail.com wrote:

 Hooray! One step in the right direction indeed. Now to consider
 the other suggested changes in relation to Quickplay please :)
 (particularly that modified screenshot with the main menu UI
 changed to offer choices of what type of server to join via
 quickplay). Thanks TF2 team for listening to us.

 On 4 July 2015 at 06:47, Ross Bemrose rbemr...@gmail.com
 mailto:rbemr...@gmail.com wrote:

 If you SUICIDE, it's not supposed to retain the charge from
 your current death. That's right in the patch notes.

 However, I (and likely others) thought this meant it would
 store 0%. Then again, if it did that, then medics could just
 suicide to make sure any enemy medics that picked it up got
 nothing.


 On 7/3/2015 11:58 PM, Gabriel Klinefelter wrote:

 The medigun is bugged.
 Gaberoll anyhow medigun is bugged
 Gaberoll when suiciding it retains the uber charge from
 your previous death, not your current death
 Gaberoll that is to say, I die with 70% uber
 Gaberoll the medigun has 70% uber
 Gaberoll later, I have 40 charge
 Gaberoll and suicide for whatever reason
 Gaberoll when picked up, it has 70% uber
 Gaberoll I am later killed at 16%
 Gaberoll it gets picked up as 16%
 Gaberoll I then suicide at full charge
 Gaberoll it is picked up at 16%

 On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Mike Vail
 supp...@boomgaming.net mailto:supp...@boomgaming.net wrote:

 OMG! OMG!!

 They listened to you guys! OMFG!

 - Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers are no
 longer listed in the server browser

 On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Eric Smith
 er...@valvesoftware.com
 mailto:er...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 We've released a mandatory update for TF2. The notes
 for the update are below. The new version is 2863548.

 -Eric

 --

 - Temporarily limited OS X clients to medium texture
 quality to resolve random crashes while work is done
 on a permanent fix
 - Fixed a random crash that affected OSX only
 - Updated the collision geometry for the turbines in
 Powerhouse
 - Dropped weapons now retain their ammo and
 ÜberCharge levels unless the player commits suicide
 - Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers
 are no longer listed in the server browser
 - Players no longer drop their weapons in MvM
 - Pressing the action key will now try to pick up a
 dropped weapon before trying to use an item in the
 action slot
 - Spies can no longer pick up weapons when disguised
 or cloaked
 - Using the mouse to select enemy players on the
 scoreboard no longer improperly reveals their class
 - Fixed players dropping multiple instances of the
 same weapon at once
 - Fixed unintended changes to rocket and other
 explosive jumping behavior
 - Fixed dropped weapons occasionally using an
 incorrect skin
 - Fixed an issue that was causing the particle
 effects on Unusual hats to sometimes draw in
 first-person for the owner, or not draw at all to others
 - Fixed an issue that prevented Huntsman arrows from
 damaging enemy Engineer buildings
 - Fixed weapons with attached models (e.g. Festive
 weapons, Kritzkrieg, and Botkillers) not rendering
 their 

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

I don't know if this would be ideal. My suggestion would be to filter Valve
servers by default, unless the user explicitly adds 'valve' to the tags
search bar.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Spencer 'Voogru' MacDonald 
voo...@voogru.com wrote:

 - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers not
 being listed in the server browser while we look into this further.

 A separate tab for valve servers. Show community servers on one tab, valve
 servers on the other tab. The default tab should be 'community' tab. Since
 valve was willing to hide them altogether, I think this is a reasonable
 compromise.

 - Voogru.

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
 Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 5:29 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com;
 hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

 We've released an optional update for TF2 that fixes an exploit with
 players
 taunting and then dying on the final control point of payload maps. You do
 not need this update unless you are experiencing this problem. The update
 notes are below. The new version number is 2863781.

 -Eric

 ---

 - Fixed an exploit related to taunting and then dying on the final control
 point of payload maps
 - Fixed a bug that was creating Specialized Killstreak Kits that could be
 applied to any item
 - Fixed items that are removed from the Steam Community Market having the
 trade restriction removed
 - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers not
 being listed in the server browser while we look into this further

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Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

Did you have a 'valve' tag in your sv_tags like a fool?

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Mike Vail supp...@boomgaming.net wrote:

 My player counts fell by 50% or more since yesterday's update and I don't
 even run servers that compete against the stock Valve servers.Nearly all my
 servers are trade servers without Quickplay. Once this optional update was
 released, ​my player counts instantly soared and all my custom servers
 filled instantly just like they did before yesterday. It was like clients
 couldn't see them after the update. I think there's more going on than just
 delisting Valve servers on Yesterday's update.Whatever changed, I'm glad it
 was reverted for now.

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Re: [hlds] Mandatory TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

Yes, I'm aware. I just felt the need to call out misinformation.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 6:24 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote:

 You're out of the loop dude, Valve servers were not there for a day, they
 were returned few hours ago.

 -ics

 Alexander Corn kirjoitti:

 Now my history tab is empty

 Did you even check? Valve servers are/were still listed in the history
 tab. The change merely added a condition to the Internet tab's master
 server query to not return any servers with the 'valve' tag.

 Official MvM servers aren't listed on the master server *at all*, and yet
 they still show up in my history. History is stored client-side and ignores
 any master server limitations or delisting.

 If you're going to complain about a change, please try to at least know
 what you're talking about. Then again, this is a mailing list for *server
 operators*, not client feedback.

 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Dominik Friedrichs d...@forlix.org
 mailto:d...@forlix.org wrote:

 I never bothered to add them to favorites. I simply used the
 history tab to pick a Valve server with the map of choice. Now my
 history tab is empty and while I can use Quickplay/Show servers to
 pick a certain map, I cant right click there to View server info
 in order to find out if thats the server I just left for whatever
 repelling reason. Guess it will be trial and error from now on -
 oh the progress...

 Honestly when I read the suggestion a few days ago I was weighing
 in safety that Valve would never implement it.


 On 2015/07/04 17:07, ics wrote:

 You had over 2 years of time to find a Valve server and add
 that to
 favorites. How many do you have in favorites? Look in the
 mirror if you
 have 0 or cant find any.

 -ics

 AJ DeTorrice kirjoitti:


 I actually really dislike that valve decided to remove
 their servers
 from the server browser. Nine times out of ten, I don't
 want to play
 your terrible 24/7 server with class limits. There
 definitely needs to
 be a toggle to include valve servers in the server
 browser. IMO,
 quickplay takes too long to find a server to be useful.


 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015, 3:30 AM Paul ubyu@gmail.com
 mailto:ubyu@gmail.com
 mailto:ubyu@gmail.com mailto:ubyu@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hooray! One step in the right direction indeed. Now to
 consider
 the other suggested changes in relation to Quickplay please :)
 (particularly that modified screenshot with the main menu UI
 changed to offer choices of what type of server to join via
 quickplay). Thanks TF2 team for listening to us.

 On 4 July 2015 at 06:47, Ross Bemrose rbemr...@gmail.com
 mailto:rbemr...@gmail.com
 mailto:rbemr...@gmail.com mailto:rbemr...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 If you SUICIDE, it's not supposed to retain the charge from
 your current death. That's right in the patch notes.

 However, I (and likely others) thought this meant it would
 store 0%. Then again, if it did that, then medics could just
 suicide to make sure any enemy medics that picked it up got
 nothing.


 On 7/3/2015 11:58 PM, Gabriel Klinefelter wrote:

 The medigun is bugged.
 Gaberoll anyhow medigun is bugged
 Gaberoll when suiciding it retains the uber charge from
 your previous death, not your current death
 Gaberoll that is to say, I die with 70% uber
 Gaberoll the medigun has 70% uber
 Gaberoll later, I have 40 charge
 Gaberoll and suicide for whatever reason
 Gaberoll when picked up, it has 70% uber
 Gaberoll I am later killed at 16%
 Gaberoll it gets picked up as 16%
 Gaberoll I then suicide at full charge
 Gaberoll it is picked up at 16%

 On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Mike Vail
 supp...@boomgaming.net
 mailto:supp...@boomgaming.net
 mailto:supp...@boomgaming.net
 mailto:supp...@boomgaming.net wrote:

 OMG! OMG!!

 They listened to you guys! OMFG!

 - Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers are no
 longer listed in the server browser

 On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 7:45 PM, Eric Smith
 er...@valvesoftware.com mailto:er...@valvesoftware.com
 mailto:er...@valvesoftware.com

 mailto:er...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 We've released a mandatory update for TF2

Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Alexander Corn]

He probably did. I just checked and literally everything he has ever posted
to this mailing list has been against community servers. Seems like some
SPUF/reddit user found the server ops' mailing list and wants to keep
non-Valve servers shut out because he was on a bad server once.

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Logging cl_connectmethod.

 Why do you presume that I am pulling it from my ass?

 I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. Did
 you get put on saigns and couldn't figure out how to type valve in server
 browser, so you are resorting to flaming the server owners here?

 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Phillip Vector t...@mostdeadlygame.com
 wrote:

 The majority of players still click play now instead of using the
 server browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably
 does very little for your own servers.

 Please tell me how you managed to get access to this data. Presuming you
 aren't pulling it from your ass of course.

 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Are you all really surprised by this? Valve doesn't care about community
 servers anymore. The moment 1 person complains that they couldn't wait 15
 seconds for quickplay, it gets removed.

 Anyway you are all acting like half life 3 was announced.

 The majority of players still click play now instead of using the server
 browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably does very
 little for your own servers.

 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Matthias InstantMuffin Kollek 
 proph...@sticed.org wrote:

 Endless waves of communities explaining how quickplay (and other
 changes ofc) destroys communities, nothing happens.
 Two people on the mailing list moan about valve servers being excluded
 from the list, instantfix. GJ


 On 04.07.2015 23:32, Kevin C wrote:

 You have got to be kidding me.

 http://i.imgur.com/tAmWXj6.png wink wink nudge nudge

 On 7/4/2015 5:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote:

 - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking
 servers not being listed in the server browser while we look into this
 further

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Re: [hlds] Mediated Discussion about Quick play change

[Alexander Corn]

It will include objectives that grant economy items, it will definitely be
Valve-server-only.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:56 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 I didn't see anything in the update content that says it is restricted to
 Valve servers only - did I miss something?

 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Alexander Corn mc...@doctormckay.com
 wrote:

 So, how about these better solutions for the nuclear option? It's
 been over a year and a half and I'm not looking forward to Valve servers
 sucking away all my players tomorrow for this CS:GO operation ripoff.

 On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Doctor McKay mc...@doctormckay.com
 wrote:

 A member of my community received a response from Fletcher in reply to
 an email:

 We’re hoping the nuclear option isn’t permanent, because it isn’t
 ideal.  I cannot promise anything in particular or any time frame, but I
 can say that we are looking for better solutions to this problem.  We
 understand that we are basically using radiation to kill cancer.  But the
 player experience was really bad and we felt it called for some immediate
 action.  We hope it is not the long term solution.



 - Fletch


 Dr. McKay
 www.doctormckay.com


 On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:01 AM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote:

 They are not going to kill TF2. It still brings them money and while
 people make contributions to workshop and new content, they can just pack
 it in and use that in the game. People buy keys and they get money that 
 way.

 But i don't think we get a reply, they have become too big to answer us
 little folks.

 -ics

 Paul kirjoitti:

 They're obviously content with the idea they wish to slowly kill Team
 Fortress 2, or at the very least try to. They seem to be happy to ignore
 our complaints as always :x. I agree that the option to make official
 servers not default would be somewhat the answer, but getting Valve to do
 that or someone at Valve to answer our concerns is probably going to be a
 miracle. Perhaps if we keep up with the complaints on the mailing list 
 they
 will eventually respond and agree.


 On 26 January 2014 05:57, ics i...@ics-base.net mailto:
 i...@ics-base.net wrote:

 Yes lets think about the end user that has been enjoying community
 servers and the care we take of our players, keeping cheaters out
 and other troublemaking trollers and especially offering a place
 to play on. For over 6 years our communities have helped TF2 grow.
 Only after game went Free to Play, Valve added their own servers.
 Do you even know where the players played before that? On our
 community servers only. It was decided that when game goes free to
 play, they will add extra servers to get new players to get on and
 get familiar to the game. Thats what they have been doing all
 along and they did thought the end user. Now grip tightens for
 unknown reason.

 The existing players will keep playing on our servers but due to
 severe lack of new ones ever finding our servers, it will get our
 servers emptied. The decision that was made is absolutely horrible
 and one sided. Yes, it's their game and they can do whatever they
 want but simply forgetting every server owner contribution to this
 game in the past, especially the ones that have been here since
 TF2 release and before, it's really sad to see it was made without
 atleast warning us ahead of the change and telling why it has to
 be like this.

 -ics

 Jon Just kirjoitti:

 Until valve can get rid of premium servers, ad farms, and
 server chains that monopolize the quick play system, I think
 that this change should stay. I feel bad that community
 servers have to be punished as well, but you need to think of
 the average tf2 player before the server owner.

 Sent from my iPod

 On Jan 25, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Supreet coachcrock...@gmail.com
 mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com
 mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com

 mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 I think it is very wrong to accuse certain communities and
 players who may or may not be exploiting the quick play
 system.

 Saigns or NightTeam is famous because there's a
 considerable amount of population that loves the
 customized gameplay. On the other hand, Skial I believe
 runs the best vanilla servers along with Lotus being one
 of the first largest TF2 communities who is still alive.

 You have to be understanding and give every community
 member credit and a pat on the back for their hard work.
 If it weren't for them, a lot of the TF2 population would
 be undecided in terms of their server preference.

 The problem at hand:
 New players are uneducated or lazy about unchecking a box
 that might

Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

The blow would be lessened if you would go ahead and set any server as
the default for Quickplay instead of official servers only. That was
supposed to be a temporary, nuclear solution after all.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 5:22 PM, John Schoenick jo...@valvesoftware.com
wrote:

 Hey guys, with today's update we're introducing a few new features that
 will impact servers, and I just wanted to give you guys a heads up.

 There is a new quickplay category, featured, that represents the featured
 maps for a given campaign. In order to have your server in this category,
 you need to be running the mapcycle mapcycle_featured_maps.txt, and have
 the special string 'featured' in your quickplay tags.

 Today's update also introduces contracts, which currently require players
 be on official servers to complete. Unfortunately, our current setup makes
 it very difficult to restrict features like this other than in an
 all-or-nothing manner, and we determined this was necessary to protect the
 system from immediate abuse.

 We agree this is not ideal. We are continuing the look at the situation
 with community servers and how we can better support passionate
 communities, but currently have nothing to announce.

 - JohnS

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Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update

[Alexander Corn]

CS:GO has been community-hostile since day 1. The main menu encourages you
to join official servers through matchmaking, and even clicking on the
community server button gives you this nice dialog:
https://www.doctormckay.com/screenshots/1435814676_DaEqX.png

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Michael Loveless mloveless1...@gmail.com
wrote:

 It's sad what Valve is doing to communities. Slowly but surely they are
 killing off CS:GO community servers with each new Operation as well. I feel
 terrible for you guys.

 On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Lyrai lyr...@gmail.com wrote:

 They can swag your door?
 On Jul 2, 2015 2:55 PM, Dill Bates dillbat...@gmail.com wrote:

 I dropped my servers after the last update! I lost all my users! Fuck
 Valve! They can S my D!!


  On Jul 2, 2015, at 2:50 PM, HD ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote:
 
  I said this on the other list..but I'll put it here too!
 
  Ok this is almost the last straw for me hosting TF2 servers - first you
  basically kill anything to do with the community but rather than deal
 with
  those few select that abuse something you take everything away from
  everyone. To not be able to run what introduces contracts and to
 require to
  play only on official servers really kills community servers that
 could host
  these much better than poorly run Valve servers.
 
  You say you are looking at the situation with Community servers but I
 find
  this very hard to believe and nothing more than propaganda to save
 face.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics
  Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 5:43 PM
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Community Servers and the Gun Mettle Update
 
  I have to agree also, getting scraps instead of the goodies. Why am i
 paying
  for servers anymore when they get alienated by Valve policies?
 
  That image there is really the best solution i've seen so far.
 
  -ics
 
 
  E. Olsen kirjoitti:
  At this point, I have to agree with Alexander.
 
  I mean, cmon guys - in almost two years of looking at alternatives
  you've got nothing to announce when it comes to helping community
  servers? There have been quite a few viable alternative presented, to
  include this one:
 
  http://i.imgur.com/tAmWXj6.png
 
  I've really been a staunch defender of the TF2 team to this point, but
  this is just kicking all the good communities that are left while
  they're down.
 
  Honestly, by the time you guys make community support a priority
  again, it might be too late.
 
  On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Alexander Corn mc...@doctormckay.com
  mailto:mc...@doctormckay.com wrote:
 
 The blow would be lessened if you would go ahead and set any
 server as the default for Quickplay instead of official servers
 only. That was supposed to be a temporary, nuclear solution
 after all.
 
 On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 5:22 PM, John Schoenick
 jo...@valvesoftware.com mailto:jo...@valvesoftware.com wrote:
 
 Hey guys, with today's update we're introducing a few new
 features that will impact servers, and I just wanted to give
 you guys a heads up.
 
 There is a new quickplay category, featured, that represents
 the featured maps for a given campaign. In order to have your
 server in this category, you need to be running the mapcycle
 mapcycle_featured_maps.txt, and have the special string
 'featured' in your quickplay tags.
 
 Today's update also introduces contracts, which currently
 require players be on official servers to complete.
 Unfortunately, our current setup makes it very difficult to
 restrict features like this other than in an all-or-nothing
 manner, and we determined this was necessary to protect the
 system from immediate abuse.
 
 We agree this is not ideal. We are continuing the look at the
 situation with community servers and how we can better support
 passionate communities, but currently have nothing to announce.
 
 - JohnS
 
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 archives, please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Mediated Discussion about Quick play change

[Alexander Corn]

So, how about these better solutions for the nuclear option? It's been
over a year and a half and I'm not looking forward to Valve servers sucking
away all my players tomorrow for this CS:GO operation ripoff.

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Doctor McKay mc...@doctormckay.com wrote:

 A member of my community received a response from Fletcher in reply to an
 email:

 We’re hoping the nuclear option isn’t permanent, because it isn’t ideal.
 I cannot promise anything in particular or any time frame, but I can say
 that we are looking for better solutions to this problem.  We understand
 that we are basically using radiation to kill cancer.  But the player
 experience was really bad and we felt it called for some immediate action.
 We hope it is not the long term solution.



 - Fletch


 Dr. McKay
 www.doctormckay.com


 On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:01 AM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote:

 They are not going to kill TF2. It still brings them money and while
 people make contributions to workshop and new content, they can just pack
 it in and use that in the game. People buy keys and they get money that way.

 But i don't think we get a reply, they have become too big to answer us
 little folks.

 -ics

 Paul kirjoitti:

 They're obviously content with the idea they wish to slowly kill Team
 Fortress 2, or at the very least try to. They seem to be happy to ignore
 our complaints as always :x. I agree that the option to make official
 servers not default would be somewhat the answer, but getting Valve to do
 that or someone at Valve to answer our concerns is probably going to be a
 miracle. Perhaps if we keep up with the complaints on the mailing list they
 will eventually respond and agree.


 On 26 January 2014 05:57, ics i...@ics-base.net mailto:i...@ics-base.net
 wrote:

 Yes lets think about the end user that has been enjoying community
 servers and the care we take of our players, keeping cheaters out
 and other troublemaking trollers and especially offering a place
 to play on. For over 6 years our communities have helped TF2 grow.
 Only after game went Free to Play, Valve added their own servers.
 Do you even know where the players played before that? On our
 community servers only. It was decided that when game goes free to
 play, they will add extra servers to get new players to get on and
 get familiar to the game. Thats what they have been doing all
 along and they did thought the end user. Now grip tightens for
 unknown reason.

 The existing players will keep playing on our servers but due to
 severe lack of new ones ever finding our servers, it will get our
 servers emptied. The decision that was made is absolutely horrible
 and one sided. Yes, it's their game and they can do whatever they
 want but simply forgetting every server owner contribution to this
 game in the past, especially the ones that have been here since
 TF2 release and before, it's really sad to see it was made without
 atleast warning us ahead of the change and telling why it has to
 be like this.

 -ics

 Jon Just kirjoitti:

 Until valve can get rid of premium servers, ad farms, and
 server chains that monopolize the quick play system, I think
 that this change should stay. I feel bad that community
 servers have to be punished as well, but you need to think of
 the average tf2 player before the server owner.

 Sent from my iPod

 On Jan 25, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Supreet coachcrock...@gmail.com
 mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com
 mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com

 mailto:coachcrock...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 I think it is very wrong to accuse certain communities and
 players who may or may not be exploiting the quick play
 system.

 Saigns or NightTeam is famous because there's a
 considerable amount of population that loves the
 customized gameplay. On the other hand, Skial I believe
 runs the best vanilla servers along with Lotus being one
 of the first largest TF2 communities who is still alive.

 You have to be understanding and give every community
 member credit and a pat on the back for their hard work.
 If it weren't for them, a lot of the TF2 population would
 be undecided in terms of their server preference.

 The problem at hand:
 New players are uneducated or lazy about unchecking a box
 that might be irrelevant to them.

 We cannot do much to fix it. By bickering and repeatedly
 complaining, Valve will not be interested in reading our
 comments. Let's keep our thoughts and ideas organized in a
 thread and make a kind request for Valve to tweak the
 change they have made.

 Someone mentioned an 

Re: [hlds] Limited User Accounts cl_gameserver_create_identity

[Alexander Corn]

I believe that GC accounts just require a Premium TF2 account.

On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 8:51 PM, Jesse Molina je...@opendreams.net wrote:


 Hi all

 Today I set up a new Steam user account specifically for creating
 Gameserver accounts (TF2 Quickplay and Fav Migrations). That way, they are
 not associated with my personal account and can be used/shared by other
 admins in my community who may need to add a new account.

 However, I am not able to do this due to the relative new Limited User
 Account restrictions put in place.

 When I issue the command cl_gameserver_create_identity, I get the
 following reply:

 Request to create a game server account sent--please wait.
 Unable to create a game server account attached to your Steam
 account.
 Your Steam account doesn't have rights to create game server
 accounts.

 https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3330-IAGK-7663

 Okay, so I took out my credit card and put $5.00 USD into the wallet of
 this new user, but that still was not enough to create game server
 accounts.

 Now what Valve? There must be some other additional undocumented
 restrictions to creating Gameserver accounts.

 The email address on this account has been verified and you now have a
 valid credit card, but that still isn't enough. What do I need to do?


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Re: [hlds] Mandatory TF2 update coming

[Alexander Corn]

He wasn't asking for a tech lesson. He was just asking if Eric could give
us the notes a bit early.
On Feb 18, 2015 5:23 PM, wickedplayer494 wickedplayer...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Unlike CS:GO, changes to game depots aren't made ahead of time (enabling
 for diffing and previewing of new content), so for you, me, and the rest of
 us, we'll all have to wait.

 On 2/18/2015 4:13 PM, Paul wrote:

 Hi Eric,
 While we wait, I was wonder if there's a possibility of us knowing what to
 expect in the upcoming update or must we wait until it's released? Thanks.

  Regards,
 Paul.

 On 18 February 2015 at 22:11, Eric Smith er...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 We're still working on releasing the update. It's going to take longer
 than usual. I don't have an ETA yet.

 -Eric


 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
 Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 1:57 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com;
 hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] Mandatory TF2 update coming

 We're working on a mandatory update for Team Fortress 2. We should have
 it ready soon.

 -Eric

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Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban

[Alexander Corn]

Stuff can always be injected. The only reason why you don’t see addons working 
around this signature check is because of VAC. You can’t very well run VAC on a 
server.

 

Alexander Corn

“Dr. McKay”

 http://www.doctormckay.com http://www.doctormckay.com

 

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Barreiro
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 11:19 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban

 

In terms of the addons,

The way the client addons check works is it'll only load signed engine addons. 
If a plugin has been signed by Valve, it can be loaded with secure. Otherwise, 
you can only load addons with -insecure.  This is for addons. 

One option would be to disable addons by default, and add a launch parameter 
-addons. There's potential this could be exploited though.

Another method would be to make a separate server branch. CSGO has this. The 
branches are Community_DS, Valve_DS, Pinion_DS. The Valve and the Pinion DS 
both have changes that can be forwarded to the client. For example, there's a 
hidden cvar sv_require_motd_seconds. This cvar is on the client, the Pinion DS, 
and the Valve DS. If it is set on the Valve DS, it replicates it to the client. 
The community DS doesn't have this cvar and from my testing, you can't forward 
it to the client (as it's a hidden cvar on the client)

They could make a branch for vanilla vs modded which report themselves 
differently to the matchmaking servers. This is similar to how Valve does the 
Mann Up servers. They run on server_valve.dll, set tf_mm_trusted to 1, and then 
each server gets validated on the backend. If this works out then it's marked 
as an official server in MM.

They could just make another branch that completely disables the addon system 
(don't just set a value to 0, make sure it doesn't even attempt to load any 
form of addon) and either whitelists cvars or blacklists cvars, and makes sure 
to enforce all cvars that aren't on that list so if someone attempted changing 
them via injection, it'd just change them back.

 

This is just one option. There will never be a way to 100% block server mods, 
but this would be a good step.

 

Bypassing something like this is possible with enough work, but it would 
require a technical expertise many server owners don't have.

If someone did attempt this, then they could be blacklisted fairly easily (it'd 
be pretty obvious). You could even have the client check if a server's cvars 
are consistent with vanilla mode. If they aren't it then sends some form of log 
to the backend and if a server gets enough of these, an employee could take a 
quick look and see what's wrong.

 

There will always be a way past these things. Nothing is impenetrable but there 
are things that can be done to help.  The biggest issue is the workload that 
would come with this.

 

 

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Cats From Above spotsfromab...@gmail.com 
wrote:

Right now, various Valve games have protections in them that prevent addons 
being loaded under set conditions. I am sure Valve would be more than capable 
of distributing a similar mechanic within SRCDS. It is a matter of will power.

 

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:56 AM, Asher Baker asher...@gmail.com wrote:

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Cats From Above spotsfromab...@gmail.com 
wrote:

What would you need to do to be eligible for the Vanilla pool? Simple, don't 
have *any* addons loaded on your server. This can be easily enforced on a 
technical level. The ability to late load source addons would also be removed 
under this scheme.


This is a non-starter, there is no way to prevent server-side modifications 
from being made.




~
Their heads are green, and their hands are blue,
  And they went to sea in a Sieve. - Edward Lear

 

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Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban

[Alexander Corn]

I’ve reached the point where I no longer lose sleep over this. At this point I 
don’t expect any growth of TF2. All I care about anymore is trying to keep my 
the people in my community around as long as they still care about TF2. Trying 
to convince Valve of anything is a waste of time for me. I’d have better luck 
arguing with a brick wall.

 

Valve is dead. TF2 is dying. All I care about anymore is logging on from time 
to time to play some Dustbowl or payload or something. I liked trading for a 
while but even that is tedious and boring now that I have to alt-tab out of the 
game to check my email every time I want to swap a weapon.

 

Valve used to make intelligent decisions. I don’t know what happened, but that 
company is no more. And it’s a damn shame.

 

Alexander Corn

“Dr. McKay”

 http://www.doctormckay.com http://www.doctormckay.com

 

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Willinger
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 1:39 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban

 

So, we will let this thread die again?

Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company.

 

Von: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Tim Anderson
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12
An: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com
Betreff: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban

 

To the TF2 team,

 

It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community 
servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of 
what has happened since then.

 

- Player gain dropped 4% from the year before.

- UGC highlander teams dropped 17%

- Highly reduced map variety from community servers.

- Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013.

 

You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining 
the experience for the rest. 

 

Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this 
from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone 
connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is 
dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the 
new players.

 

Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought 
about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they 
never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem.

 

I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have 
stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run.

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Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Optional TF2 dedicated server update released

[Alexander Corn]

They added VPK signing, allowing communities to whitelist specific mods,
but of course you'd have to get players into community servers in the first
place.
On Dec 9, 2014 7:38 PM, Mortimer Stroodle dr.stroo...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is basically what they did with sv_pure too, killing the modding
 community because they couldn't be bothered to fix an exploit.

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 They removed all official servers last December and there were more
 players than ever.

 Unfortunately the existence of a few bad servers led them to practically
 cutting off all access to new players.

 This was the biggest copout. Instead of facing the problem they decided
 to screw everyone for their convenience. If they were truly in touch with
 players this would NEVER have been considered an option.

 But as we can all see from this update, TF2 seems to be more about
 squeezing every last bit of money with minimum effort.

 On Tuesday, December 9, 2014, Jordan Olling jordanoll...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 They want to keep making money from the game, so they leave it up. But
 if there's any grain of truth to Paul's theory, that would be the secret
 way to suck life from the game.

 On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 3:13 PM, wickedplayer494 
 wickedplayer...@gmail.com wrote:

  If Valve wanted to do that, they'd just outright say yeah hey we're
 done with this game, see ya and/or shut off all their servers leaving only
 community ones running.

 On 12/9/2014 5:09 PM, Paul wrote:

 A wild theory, but erhaps Valve are intentionally wanting players to
 slowly lose interest in Team Fortress 2 for some reason?

 On 9 December 2014 at 23:01, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I would argue that it is related to third party dedicated servers.

  The people left in charge of TF2 have been out of touch with players
 for a while and only now is it becoming more obvious. We face the brunt of
 these bad policies because we don't have a stream of new mann co store
 fodder from quickplay. A few years ago the thought of making a major patch
 locked behind an uncraftable purchase would not even have crossed their
 minds.

  Despite 3 major non-MvM patches, global player counts are again on
 their way to declining back to beginning of the year levels. With the
 amount of developer time spent on the game, TF2 should not be 1/5th the
 size of CS. I've seen many quality servers die out this year. Custom
 servers are also dying because new players aren't being exposed enough to
 the fact that custom servers exist.

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Re: [hlds] csgo cvar not working - mp_endmatch_votenextmap

[Alexander Corn]

You may want to try the csgo_servers mailing list since it’s dedicated for 
CS:GO. 

 

Alexander Corn

“Dr. McKay”

 http://www.doctormckay.com http://www.doctormckay.com

 

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of T Marler
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 10:35 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] csgo cvar not working - mp_endmatch_votenextmap

 

I am not using sourcemod, this is a completely vanilla installation.

  _  

From: Michael Loveless mloveless1...@gmail.com
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 3:04:38 AM
Subject: Re: [hlds] csgo cvar not working - mp_endmatch_votenextmap

If you are using Sourcemod, try removing nextmap.smx from your plugins folder.

 

On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 11:43 PM, T Marler bloodyi...@shaw.ca wrote:

I am trying to run a classic competitive server, and I can't for the life of me 
get mp_endmatch_votenextmap working, where the built in vote system comes up 
after a match.

 

I have the following relevant settings:

mp_endmatch_votenextmap 1

mp_match_end_changelevel 1

mp_endmatch_votenextmap 1

mp_endmatch_votenextleveltime 20

 

sv_competitive_minspec 1

sv_competitive_official_5v5 1

 

 

It seems the second declaration is redundant, but a post on sourcemod forums 
seems to believe in it, yet it doesn't correct it.

 

Not sure why this should be so hard.


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Re: [hlds] Mandatory TF2 update coming

[Alexander Corn]

So, how soon is soon?


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Eric Smith er...@valvesoftware.com wrote:

 We're working on a mandatory update for TF2. We should have it ready soon.

 -Eric


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Re: [hlds] How often can we query uptodate check?

[Alexander Corn]

nemrun.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Mohammed Khalik mohammed_kha...@hotmail.com
 wrote:

 What plugin do you use to check?
 Can you provide a link please?

 --
 From: mc...@doctormckay.com
 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 19:33:11 -0400
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] How often can we query uptodate check?


 I have two systems checking every 30 seconds.


 Dr. McKay
 www.doctormckay.com


 On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:15 PM, big john brewskii...@gmail.com wrote:

 How often is it acceptable to query
 http://api.steampowered.com/ISteamApps/UpToDateCheck/v0001 without
 getting firewalled off from steam servers? I have about 10 servers checking
 every hour but I would like to check every 30 min.

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Re: [hlds] How often can we query uptodate check?

[Alexander Corn]

I have two systems checking every 30 seconds.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:15 PM, big john brewskii...@gmail.com wrote:

 How often is it acceptable to query
 http://api.steampowered.com/ISteamApps/UpToDateCheck/v0001 without
 getting firewalled off from steam servers? I have about 10 servers checking
 every hour but I would like to check every 30 min.

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Re: [hlds] Quickplay Community Servers - 6 Months in.

[Alexander Corn]

The START PLAYING button is much larger and more prominent than the
SERVERS button, so it encourages new players to click it first. Those
players may never know that there are servers besides Valve servers.
They'll end up playing with a different set of mediocre-to-bad players,
with the occasional pubstomper and cheater mixed in.

I'm sure that this is enough to turn off plenty of potential community
regulars. A lot of us have enough traffic for now, but the rate of inflow
has decreased significantly since the change.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Phillip Vector t...@mostdeadlygame.com
wrote:

 but again, if that will no longer be possible, it would simply be
 courteous to let us know so that we can let our community know we have to
 shut them down for good.

 Shut them down. If they aren't able to get traffic from fans to stay open,
 then go ahead and shut them down. They won't be missed (since you said you
 don't have the traffic).


 On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:58 AM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote:

 Dear TF2 Team,

 We are approaching the 6 month mark to what we had been told would be a
 temporary situation (i.e. the removal of community servers from Quickplay
 by default). To my knowledge - unless I missed something somewhere - there
 has not been any communication in those six months from the TF2 development
 team as to if/when we can expect to return to a level playing field in
 terms of how community servers are treated.

 At this point, it appears the change is permanent. If so, all I ask is
 that you communicate with us and let us know if that is indeed the case,
 and community servers will no longer receive equal treatment in the long
 term.

 In our case, we are hanging onto - and paying for - dedicated (ad-free)
 servers that have been online for over four years in the hopes that we
 might be able to see them repopulated again down the road...but again, if
 that will no longer be possible, it would simply be courteous to let us
 know so that we can let our community know we have to shut them down for
 good.

 Thank You.

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Re: [hlds] Can we have a Quickplay Status report, please? 2

[Alexander Corn]

@Derek Howard

Please keep your personal life off of the mailing list. It's incredibly
childish and hypocritical to do so when chastising others for making your
phone go off. I expect more from a developer.

I see that you're using Gmail; I suggest that you set up a filter to make
mailing list messages skip the inbox and go straight to a label
(effectively routing them into a folder). That way, they won't clutter
your inbox and won't cause notifications.

@All

Back on topic, I do agree that with no details, blaming Quickplay solely
for the lower player count is a bit foolish. Looking at the big picture,
the difference isn't quite as dramatic as one would think:
http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graphjstime=1appid=440from=132539400to=End+Time

That being said, the Quickplay changes are severely detrimental. New
players are primarily directed to the Quickplay button since it's the most
prominent and is labeled Play Multiplayer. The settings button is rather
obscure and the difference between official and community servers isn't
made clear.

In the long run, this is not sustainable. Players will end up playing on
nothing but Valve servers, which have poor performance and no sense of
community. Part of what makes client-server oriented games so great is the
sense of community that evolves on a server. Without that, TF2 is basically
just another shooter that players get tired of and move on.

Not to mention the fact that server operators kept TF2 running basically up
until the Uber update. Community servers are and always have been where
players could find a customized experience that made TF2 just that much
better.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Derek Howard derekdavidhow...@gmail.com
wrote:

 oh my god I'm just trying to have a nice quiet sex-filled evening with my
 boyfriend and you jackasses keep making my damn phone go off. I keep
 thinking it's something important.

 go yell about this where you're not disturbing countless others, please.
 like on spuf or whatever shit they've replaced that with now

 Also when you link to whatever the hell that graph is, you should probably
 adjust it so that it actually illustrates your point. All I can think of is
 that scene from Futurama where Hermes says As this shocking graph
 indicates... http://i.imgur.com/obuEVmj.png Except it's worse. Also,
 make the graph display the last two years and there's actually a trend
 upwards?

 Also, this is not the place to discuss religious belief. Why the hell
 would you open that can of worms here and intentionally piss off the people
 on this list who may be religious? I'm all for tearing down religious
 institutions, but the fucking HLDS mailing list is not the place to do it.




 On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 This is about as inane as a creationist saying: Prove it, prove
 evolution is real. You don't have any real evidence. You weren't there a
 million years ago.

 The evidence I have provided is as solid as anyone outside of Valve is
 going to get. But of course you knew this and you are less interested in
 the truth than winning an argument.

 A more astute analogy than your school shooting analogy, would be if you
 refused to believe in global warming despite CO2 emissions being the most
 obvious and plausible explanation. You would just keep repeating the old
 tired cliche about correlation doesn't imply causation.

  But even with my findings, that still isn't enough for me to stand up
 and say, There is no loss of players because that's not evidence. That is
 personal observation of a limited sample size.

 That's because global players counts are available. If they were not
 available I bet you would be arguing about that instead.


 On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Phillip Vector t...@mostdeadlygame.com
 wrote:

 It is a perfectly valid explanation to anyone who has actually played
 on community servers

 Prove it. Prove to me that this is a direct result of the quickplay
 change and nothing else. Not what you assume, but what you can prove is
 what I am after. For example, I can say that the amount of cars driven is
 the reason why there are more school shootings. Number of cars goes up..
 Shootings go up.. So it must be the case. This is exactly what you are
 doing with the quickplay argument you are presenting. Numbers went down.
 Valve stopped sending new players to community servers around the same
 time.. That must be the reason.


 You appear to be someone who only plays on official servers so you have
 no idea how many people have just stopped playing because they realized
 Valve is draining all the new players and they can't stand official ones.

 and you don't have any idea as well. Personal comments aside, the
 community servers I hang around are going strong today as they ever were.
 I'm not seeing a loss of players (except some here or there, but we get new
 people in to replace those). But even with my 

Re: [hlds] Can we have a Quickplay Status report, please? 2

[Alexander Corn]

​
Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and I
wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling
flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which
would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely).

This is still not an ideal solution. Plenty of community servers rely on
the MOTD and features such as JavaScript and Flash (mostly for audio
streams, but many are switching to HTML5 audio elements) for their custom
features. Removing those features is still removing features that have
existed for a very long time due to the abusive tendencies of a few.

Those that are abusive should be dealt with. There is no reason why
everyone should suffer in order to punish a few. It goes back to grade
school gym class. Weren't you pissed when the teacher/coach made everyone
run laps or whatever because 3-4 kids wouldn't stop talking? That's how
we're being treated now.

I could live with the default Valve-only option if it were more obvious how
to switch it. When the player first starts up TF2, they're shown popups
directing them to the store, showing them how the backpack works, etc.
Ironically, these popups really only cover the item system, which most can
agree comes second to actual gameplay. There's no coaching regarding how to
actually join a game.

Display a balloon that points to the Quickplay button and says something
like, Click here to be quickly matched into a game based on gamemode and
one that points to the servers button and says something like, Click here
to fine-tune your desired game settings.

Also show a balloon in the Quickplay dialog that points to the settings
button (which isn't exactly immediately apparent as being clickable) and
also a dialog that explains the difference between official and community
servers.

Official servers offer an unmodified and uncustomized experience.

Community servers typically offer better moderation, some minor gameplay
modifications, and a greater sense of community.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very
 purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because
 they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people
 like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players throats
 and other like-minded stains.


 I guess I would consider that a valid argument if it wasn't Valve who had
 enabled the ad farms in the first place. Those things were never a
 problem before quickplay came along, because those kinds of servers would
 never get favorited to see a return visitor. The Pinion-supported folks
 were only enabled by quickplay, plain and simple - which is why when Pinion
 came on the scene shortly after quickplay came along, you had these guys go
 from a dozen or so servers to 100+ just to farm ad impressions.

 ​​
 Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and I
 wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling
 flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which
 would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). If they did that,
 and just quietly dropped any of the premium servers from quickplay, they
 would have knocked out all but the most determined black-hat folks, and
 those can always be dealt with.




 On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Eli Witt eliw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Replied to the last message, I'll post this here too.

 Well, we know from experience just how good Valve is at keeping a lid on
 things (case in point HL3) so I doubt they're going to acknowledge this in
 any way unless they see fit to, not because we're disgruntled and asking
 for information.

 And for what it's worth, everyone (who's opinion on this list is worth a
 damn) has thrown out the point that we're the ones providing the servers
 for Valve, we're the ones who give their players a place to play etc etc -
 but what I think is going unnoticed here is the fact that Valve is
 obviously taking steps (and increasingly larger ones) to nullify that
 argument in it's entirety.

 Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very
 purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because
 they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people
 like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players throats
 and other like-minded stains.

 We've got the binaries on both ends, and Valve knows this. It's virtually
 impossible to stop people from being fuckjobs with access to both binaries,
 so let [Valve] just diminish the footprint the fuckjobs get access by about
 90% by forcing people into the servers we can afford to run now that we've
 monetized TF2.

 If I was Valve and I made this decision, I wouldn't give a piss whether
 people who run servers are upset by this or threaten to pull their servers
 offline because of this 

Re: [hlds] Can we have a Quickplay Status report, please? 2

[Alexander Corn]

Source radio is obviously not the only thing that it would break. What's
minor to you may not be minor to others.

Plenty of TF2 trade servers have a !bp command which opens a player's
backpack (in an online backpack viewer) in the MOTD panel. Without
JavaScript, hovering over an item won't show a tooltip with its details.
Sure, this could be done in CSS exclusively, but nobody does that because
having JavaScript enabled is basically a given in modern web development.

I'd rather have to work harder to populate my Quickplay servers than have
to deal with a completely useless MOTD browser. As others have said, the
HTML MOTD disable option is there for a reason.

Additionally, HTML MOTDs aren't even displayed for Quickplay connections. I
really don't understand why it's even an issue anymore. It's already been
crippled considerably.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:50 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree that disabling javascript/flash/html5 is less than an ideal
 solution, but for the very minor things it would disable (source radio,
 etc.), if it would allow Valve to return to a level playing field it would
 be a very small sacrifice. I'm sure if Valve came to all of us and said
 we'll enable all servers by default, but we need to remove those elements
 from the web browser to do so we would all jump at that chance. I honestly
 believe as long as operators have the ability to run those kinds of ads it
 will be abused by the blackhat folks to the point that they ruin it for the
 rest of us.

 I fully agree that mass punishment is/was a seriously ham-fisted approach
 to dealing with the issues, and was the wrong (and frankly, unethical) way
 to treat all server operators.

 I like your ideas for better informing the players regarding quickplay
 options, but as with any system of this kind, I think it should start with
 maximum diversity fully enabled by default, and allow the players to opt
 out, instead of opting in. Only then will it be a truly level playing field
 for all servers.

 On a side note, I would also like to know why the server scoring system
 (apparently) didn't work, and why it wasn't more effectively used to weed
 out all the bad apples in the first place.


 On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Alexander Corn mc...@doctormckay.com
 wrote:

 
 ​
 Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and I
 wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling
 flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which
 would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely).

 This is still not an ideal solution. Plenty of community servers rely on
 the MOTD and features such as JavaScript and Flash (mostly for audio
 streams, but many are switching to HTML5 audio elements) for their custom
 features. Removing those features is still removing features that have
 existed for a very long time due to the abusive tendencies of a few.

 Those that are abusive should be dealt with. There is no reason why
 everyone should suffer in order to punish a few. It goes back to grade
 school gym class. Weren't you pissed when the teacher/coach made everyone
 run laps or whatever because 3-4 kids wouldn't stop talking? That's how
 we're being treated now.

 I could live with the default Valve-only option if it were more obvious
 how to switch it. When the player first starts up TF2, they're shown popups
 directing them to the store, showing them how the backpack works, etc.
 Ironically, these popups really only cover the item system, which most can
 agree comes second to actual gameplay. There's no coaching regarding how to
 actually join a game.

 Display a balloon that points to the Quickplay button and says something
 like, Click here to be quickly matched into a game based on gamemode and
 one that points to the servers button and says something like, Click here
 to fine-tune your desired game settings.

 Also show a balloon in the Quickplay dialog that points to the settings
 button (which isn't exactly immediately apparent as being clickable) and
 also a dialog that explains the difference between official and community
 servers.

 Official servers offer an unmodified and uncustomized experience.

 Community servers typically offer better moderation, some minor gameplay
 modifications, and a greater sense of community.


 Dr. McKay
 www.doctormckay.com


 On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very
 purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because
 they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people
 like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players throats
 and other like-minded stains.


 I guess I would consider that a valid argument if it wasn't Valve who
 had enabled the ad farms in the first place. Those things were never a
 problem before quickplay came along, because those

Re: [hlds] Can we have a Quickplay Status report, please?

[Alexander Corn]

I agree entirely with everything that has been said.

Simply put, the player experience on official servers is a joke. The term
official server implies some standard of quality since after all, it's an
*official* server.

In reality, the experience is subpar, even borderline terrible. Valve
hardware is overloaded to the point of hilarity. If I didn't get loot from
Mann Up mode, I wouldn't dream of paying $1 per game for servers that can't
keep up with the game. Valve PvP servers aren't much better.

Lack of moderation makes the player experience dreadful in many cases.
Cheaters have free reign on Valve servers since even when a votekick is
started against them (note that many inexperienced players do not know how
to start such votes), they can simply rejoin the server and continue
cheating. Even when eventually kicked, they can simply join another
official server and start over again. Lack of moderation is to blame.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:31 PM, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Let's not go the way of throwing out insults towards the TF2 team. There's
 no doubt that - while certainly a mistake - they initially made the change
 to get rid of the nefarious server operators that were both screwing it up
 for the players AND those of us who didn't try to turn TF2 into a money
 machine. I think their hearts were in the right place, but they simply
 failed to think the change all the way through.

 Having said that, I DO hope they take into account that while a couple
 dozen people on their SPUF forums might be glad to play on Vavlve servers
 only, for every successful legit server operators that wants this change
 reversed, we are probably speaking for hundreds if not thousands of server
 regulars that will most likely walk away from TF2 soon if their servers
 keep getting choked off this way.

 The fact of the matter is, with the options they added to the quickplay
 system, there is no longer any reason for freezing us out this way. The
 players that complained the loudest about hating community servers now have
 the option to pick the offiicial servers only button.

 With that in mind, why on earth would you keep it as the default option
 any longer? Why actively eliminate access to diversity, custom mapping, the
 replay system (which only community servers support) and any new
 community-driven innovation in the game? Why keep a change that is actually
 decreasing the skill level and emphasis on teamwork for a game that was
 both known for AND built on it?

 I struggle to find a single upside in allowing official servers to
 continue to be the default option. The only thing being accomplished is
 the utter decimation of diversity and long-term player retention.

 Brings us in from the cold, Valve.


 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Is anyone left at Valve humble enough to admit a mistake? Not only do
 community servers provide more value, but this is also a massive betrayal
 of what TF2 originally was. When I bought the game, I did not expect
 community servers to be segregated and much more difficult to find.

 Where is the original TF2 team that was smart enough not to keep custom
 tabs?

 Emulating CS:GO and DOTA2's lobby system is not going to magically make
 TF2 more popular. If you are not going to copy their update speed, screwing
 community servers will make things worse. To the person behind this change,
 how do you like the drop in players it is causing?


 http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graphjstime=1appid=440from=138328920to=End+Time

 Every day this policy remains in place more servers that took years of
 seeding, prizes, and moderation get killed off, maybe even permanently
 given how old TF2 is.

 Anyone that is interested in seeing something done about this, you should
 probably also email them directly as there has been no response here.
 http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php



 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Paul ubyu@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree. TF2 has dramatically lost my vote since the changes to
 Quickplay and the lack of response or update from Valve regarding any
 future changes to it. In my own opinion they seem quite careless of the
 matter and to those who spent years hosting genuine servers for little to
 nothing in return. It's as if Valve wants the game to end up eventually
 being a ghost town (which it will if nothing changes).

 My own experience on the Valve official servers is negative, ranging
 from lack of moderation to the connection quality in comparison with
 similar community servers.

 Please, Valve, show us a sign that you really do care about the future
 of Team Fortress 2 (and other Valve games, because one bad game will most
 likely put newcomers off from trying any other game title by the same
 company). and make a statement for crying out loud! Thanks.



 On 30 May 2014 20:54, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote:

 I can tell you about the status of 

[hlds] VPK tool crashing

[Alexander Corn]

Has anyone else been experiencing issues with the VPK tool (vpk.exe shipped
with the game in /steamapps/common/Team Fortress 2/bin)? It crashes
immediately when I try to use it to either create or extract a VPK, and
it's been doing this for at least a few months.

When extracting, it prints extracting [first file] and then crashes.

The same thing happens on both my Windows 7 desktop and my Windows 8
laptop, so I'm pretty sure it's not an issue on my end.

I'd really like for this to be fixed since I offer my community members
signed VPKs so they can use mods on my servers, which run sv_pure.

Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com
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