subject:"Re\: IBM splitting into two companies"

On 2020-10-12 10:04 PM, Joe Monk wrote:

"For example, show me a customer that is running Node.js in
production on z/OS?"

How long has it been since youve been to SHARE?

Pittsburgh. I can't remember any customer presentations about deploying
Node is production. Are you aware of any since you obviously go to more
SHARE conferences than me?

I spoke to CICS devs from Hursley about running Node in CICS and they
told me they have customers trying it out in sandboxes but no
production. Java is strategic and runs on zIIP.

We found some serious performance problems with Node.js on z/OS. The
libuv event loop can spike and peg at 50% CPU. We dumped it and it seems
to be looping and leaking file descriptors.
Maybe it's not ready for prime time yet. Hopefully, zCX containers will
solve some of these "porting" issues.

Joe

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 7:36 AM David Crayford wrote:

On 2020-10-12 8:21 PM, Joe Monk wrote:

IBM has also aggressively added support for newer technologies on System

"All modern stuff runs well on the big box, from Linux to Kubernetes,"
Mueller said. "So cloud makes sense when you need infinite compute for
AI/ML or storage for Big Data. Then the size nature of the mainframe is

the

problem. But that's the problem with all on-premises IT."

https://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/252478861/Google-Cloud-adds-mainframe-migration-expertise-via-acquisition

If you have a low tolerance for BS then why are you spouting it?

All you've done is re-post IBM marketing material. Have you got anything
original? For example, show me a customer that is running Node.js in
production on z/OS?

Joe

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:57 AM David Crayford

wrote:

On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple

transactions and doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe
processed through a bank.

So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the
mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are
moving to GCP
https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.

You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the
mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have
a low tolerance for BS!

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford <

dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I

interviewed there)

In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe?

lala-land?

If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I

etc.

Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
Node.js - JavaScript!

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Re: Microsoft using IBM was Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread R.S.


W dniu 12.10.2020 o 17:23, Ed Jaffe pisze:

On 10/12/2020 8:15 AM, Clark Morris wrote:


I would be astounded if Microsoft was running any of their business
today on other than Microsoft operating systems or Linux on x86 and
ARM hardware.


Microsoft has an IBM mainframe running z/OS. One of their guys comes 
to SHARE. I saw him a while back in Orlando and just recently (Fort 
Worth?).





To clear discussion:
I'm pretty sure Microsoft has some mainframe. At least for testing 
purposes, i.e. for supporting mainframe migration. For the same reason 
you may find non-IBM storage in IBM datacenter.

Of course that prove nothing except IT staff need some equipment to work on.

However it was open secret that Microsoft have been using AS/400 machine 
for their internal needs, AFAIK it was accounting and HR. So, Microsoft 
have been using AS/400 for their own needs.


BTW: First FTP servers in Microsoft were on some unix or linux. When it 
became loud, Microsoft closed site and some time later they started 
using Windows. It was in dark ages on commercial Internet.


BTW2: Nowadays they officially play with Linux, but IMHO this is 
smokescreen.
Dot-net-core is claimed it can run code on Windows or Linux. Well I know 
a lot of Windows installations running .net core, but none using Linux.


BTW3: I remember press article about mainframe switch-off in HP. It was 
great gala.
AFAIK the mainframe was Amdahl machine with 600GB of dasd storage (or it 
was database). So, another computer vendor using competitive technology.


BTW4: Almost all IT world use SAN equipment from Brocade/Broadcom. 
Almost all companies use laptops with Windows. Almost all of you use 
mobile device from China or Far East. Yes, including Apple.


BTW5: Vast majority of large banks use mainframe. That's something 
obvious for me. However WHAT ABOUT THE REST? What about very few large 
banks NOT using mainframe? What are they using? I believe it is not 
Windows. But what? HP-Compaq-DEC VMS?


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Re: Microsoft using IBM was Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Steve Beaver

IBM runs Azure for MS

Sent from my iPhone

I promise you I can’t type or
Spell on any smartphone 

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:23, Ed Jaffe  wrote:
> 
> On 10/12/2020 8:15 AM, Clark Morris wrote:
>> 
>> I would be astounded if Microsoft was running any of their business
>> today on other than Microsoft operating systems or Linux on x86 and
>> ARM hardware.
> 
> Microsoft has an IBM mainframe running z/OS. One of their guys comes to 
> SHARE. I saw him a while back in Orlando and just recently (Fort Worth?).
> 
> -- 
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> 
> 
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Re: Microsoft using IBM was Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Ed Jaffe


On 10/12/2020 8:15 AM, Clark Morris wrote:


I would be astounded if Microsoft was running any of their business
today on other than Microsoft operating systems or Linux on x86 and
ARM hardware.


Microsoft has an IBM mainframe running z/OS. One of their guys comes to 
SHARE. I saw him a while back in Orlando and just recently (Fort Worth?).


--
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I agree with Joe.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 10:48 AM, Joe Monk  wrote:

Mainframes have been running node.js for years. In fact you can run
Linux/390 and z/OS side by side on the same box with LPARs...

"A Forrester survey released in 2019 found that 56% of respondents planned
to increase their mainframe usage over the next two years, while 36%
planned on the same amount of use.

IBM has also aggressively added support for newer technologies on System z.
"All modern stuff runs well on the big box, from Linux to Kubernetes,"
Mueller said. "So cloud makes sense when you need infinite compute for
AI/ML or storage for Big Data. Then the size nature of the mainframe is the
problem. But that's the problem with all on-premises IT."
https://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/252478861/Google-Cloud-adds-mainframe-migration-expertise-via-acquisition

If you have a low tolerance for BS then why are you spouting it?

Joe

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:57 AM David Crayford  wrote:

> On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple
> transactions and doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe
> processed through a bank.
>
> So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the
> mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are
> moving to GCP
> https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.
>
> You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the
> mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have
> a low tolerance for BS!
>
>
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford <
> dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I
> interviewed there)
> > In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?
> >
> > If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
> > Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I
> etc.
> > Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
> > Node.js - JavaScript!
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

You act like IBM marketing material isn’t true. Prove to me it’s false that 90% 
of credit card transactions don’t process on the mainframe. I’ve provided proof 
it is. You’ve provided nothing to disprove it. It’s not hard to come to the 90% 
conclusion since almost all banks worldwide run on the mainframe. Google it. 
There are dozens of articles that all say the same.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, October 12, 2020, 11:03 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 2020-10-12 8:21 PM, Joe Monk wrote:

> IBM has also aggressively added support for newer technologies on System z.
> "All modern stuff runs well on the big box, from Linux to Kubernetes,"
> Mueller said. "So cloud makes sense when you need infinite compute for
> AI/ML or storage for Big Data. Then the size nature of the mainframe is the
> problem. But that's the problem with all on-premises IT."
> https://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/252478861/Google-Cloud-adds-mainframe-migration-expertise-via-acquisition
>
> If you have a low tolerance for BS then why are you spouting it?

All you've done is re-post IBM marketing material. Have you got anything 
original? For example, show me a customer that is running Node.js in 
production on z/OS?


> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:57 AM David Crayford  wrote:
>
>> On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple
>> transactions and doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe
>> processed through a bank.
>>
>> So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the
>> mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are
>> moving to GCP
>> https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.
>>
>> You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the
>> mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have
>> a low tolerance for BS!
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford <
>> dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
 Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I
>> interviewed there)
>>> In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?
>>>
>>> If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
>>> Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I
>> etc.
>>> Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
>>> Node.js - JavaScript!
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Microsoft using IBM was Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Clark Morris

[Default] On 12 Oct 2020 07:49:43 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
charl...@mcn.org (Charles Mills) wrote:

>I know they did 25-ish years ago. I personally saw it. Also an AS/400 -- their 
>corporate travel department ran on it.

I would be astounded if Microsoft was running any of their business
today on other than Microsoft operating systems or Linux on x86 and
ARM hardware.

Clark Morris
>
>Charles
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
>Behalf Of Allan Staller
>Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 6:55 AM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
>Classification: HCL Internal
>
>The dirty little secret is that MSOFT has a mainframe in the back office!
>
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Charles Mills

I know they did 25-ish years ago. I personally saw it. Also an AS/400 -- their 
corporate travel department ran on it.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Allan Staller
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 6:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Classification: HCL Internal

The dirty little secret is that MSOFT has a mainframe in the back office!

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Bill Ogden

Before pontificating on "stupid" patents, PLEASE study the general field 
just a tiny bit!  These are defensive patents and the unfortunate patent 
systems (mostly led by the U.S.) make these very necessary. The only 
stupidity involved (other than the whole patent process) is not 
understanding the larger business world.  Firms exist that buy up "stupid" 
patents, often written so broadly as to cover practically anything, and 
then sue major companies for patent infringement. Filing the suits cost 
relatively little. Fighting the suits costs $considerably$ more.  Sure, 
the patent owners would probably lose in court, but the whole process 
costs the target companies $money$ and time --- any they often "settle" 
($$$) out of court to avoid larger expenses. Of course, that is the whole 
objective of the exercise.

It would be stupid for IBM (and other companies) not to try to protect 
themselves, and filing trivial defensive patents is one method of doing 
so.  If you want to pontificate about stupid functions, please move your 
target to the patent systems. It can be a very complex topic in the modern 
world where the dividing line between hardware and software and algorithms 
is so fuzzy.


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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Joe Monk

"For example, show me a customer that is running Node.js in
production on z/OS?"

How long has it been since youve been to SHARE?

Joe

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 7:36 AM David Crayford  wrote:

> On 2020-10-12 8:21 PM, Joe Monk wrote:
>
> > IBM has also aggressively added support for newer technologies on System
> z.
> > "All modern stuff runs well on the big box, from Linux to Kubernetes,"
> > Mueller said. "So cloud makes sense when you need infinite compute for
> > AI/ML or storage for Big Data. Then the size nature of the mainframe is
> the
> > problem. But that's the problem with all on-premises IT."
> >
> https://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/252478861/Google-Cloud-adds-mainframe-migration-expertise-via-acquisition
> >
> > If you have a low tolerance for BS then why are you spouting it?
>
> All you've done is re-post IBM marketing material. Have you got anything
> original? For example, show me a customer that is running Node.js in
> production on z/OS?
>
>
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:57 AM David Crayford 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >>> Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple
> >> transactions and doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe
> >> processed through a bank.
> >>
> >> So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the
> >> mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are
> >> moving to GCP
> >> https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.
> >>
> >> You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the
> >> mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have
> >> a low tolerance for BS!
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford <
> >> dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>  Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I
> >> interviewed there)
> >>> In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe?
> lala-land?
> >>>
> >>> If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
> >>> Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I
> >> etc.
> >>> Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
> >>> Node.js - JavaScript!
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >> --
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Allan Staller

Classification: HCL Internal

The dirty little secret is that MSOFT has a mainframe in the back office!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants to 
>do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what 
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that Amazon 
has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of the need 
for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.  Microsoft based on 
my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for fixes and the 
equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high availability better 
than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Alan Altmark

On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 10:44:09 -0500, Dave Jousma  wrote:

>Anyone know any more about this?
>
>https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ibm-divestiture/ibm-to-break-up-109-year-old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZ
>
>https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth-strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructure-services-unit-301148458.html

IBM's announcements says that IBM will "separate its Managed Infrastructure 
Services unit of its Global Technology Services division into a new public 
company."  

It might help to understand that the IBM Systems and IBM Global Technology 
Services (GTS) divisions are in very different businesses.

IBM Systems produces hardware, operating systems, and related software products 
for sale.  In support of that it also has its own "Lab Services" group that is 
focused on helping clients embrace the new, as well as understand the old.   We 
have some amount of overlap with GTS, but we're on a much smaller scale with 
more advanced and more tightly focused services.

GTS is focused on contracted services that include system operations, data 
center management and operation, application development (formerly of IBM 
Global Business Services), long-term staff augmentation, project management, 
general IT consulting, and Other Duties As Assigned.

One suspects that a considerable amount of effort has been spent drawing a line 
between "Managed Infrastructure Services" and "Other".  At some point IBM will 
publish more details, I'm sure.

Alan Altmark
IBM Systems Lab Services
Senior Managing z/VM Consultant

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

On 2020-10-12 8:21 PM, Joe Monk wrote:

IBM has also aggressively added support for newer technologies on System z.
"All modern stuff runs well on the big box, from Linux to Kubernetes,"
Mueller said. "So cloud makes sense when you need infinite compute for
AI/ML or storage for Big Data. Then the size nature of the mainframe is the
problem. But that's the problem with all on-premises IT."
https://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/252478861/Google-Cloud-adds-mainframe-migration-expertise-via-acquisition

If you have a low tolerance for BS then why are you spouting it?

All you've done is re-post IBM marketing material. Have you got anything
original? For example, show me a customer that is running Node.js in
production on z/OS?

Joe

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:57 AM David Crayford wrote:

On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple

transactions and doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe
processed through a bank.

You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the
mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have
a low tolerance for BS!

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford <

dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I

interviewed there)

In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?

If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I

etc.

Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
Node.js - JavaScript!

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread Joe Monk

Mainframes have been running node.js for years. In fact you can run
Linux/390 and z/OS side by side on the same box with LPARs...

"A Forrester survey released in 2019 found that 56% of respondents planned
to increase their mainframe usage over the next two years, while 36%
planned on the same amount of use.

IBM has also aggressively added support for newer technologies on System z.
"All modern stuff runs well on the big box, from Linux to Kubernetes,"
Mueller said. "So cloud makes sense when you need infinite compute for
AI/ML or storage for Big Data. Then the size nature of the mainframe is the
problem. But that's the problem with all on-premises IT."
https://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/news/252478861/Google-Cloud-adds-mainframe-migration-expertise-via-acquisition

If you have a low tolerance for BS then why are you spouting it?

Joe

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:57 AM David Crayford  wrote:

> On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple
> transactions and doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe
> processed through a bank.
>
> So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the
> mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are
> moving to GCP
> https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.
>
> You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the
> mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have
> a low tolerance for BS!
>
>
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford <
> dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I
> interviewed there)
> > In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?
> >
> > If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
> > Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I
> etc.
> > Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
> > Node.js - JavaScript!
> >
> > --
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I never post BS. I interviewed at PayPal quite a few years ago at their 
Columbus, Ohio location. Up in Dublin a northern suburb. They had a mainframe 
then. Apple & Amazon uses a credit card processor which uses a mainframe. 
PayPal also tries to push a credit card on you which is processed by Synchrony 
bank’s mainframe.
IBM isn’t splitting into 2 to sell one. Google split into 2 also a few years 
ago.
Patents are a good thing and generally indicate a company has intelligent 
engineers whose work should be protected.
Latest quarter IBM did over 6 billion in cloud revenue. Half what AZURE did & 
more than half what AWS did. Yeah, they bought it from Red Hat but that’s just 
smart business. So the 2% claim is now BS.
The mainframe isn’t going away in my lifetime & probably not yours. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 6:57 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple transactions and 
> doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe processed through a bank.

So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the 
mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are 
moving to GCP 
https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.

You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the 
mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have 
a low tolerance for BS!

>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I 
>> interviewed there)
> In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?
>
> If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
> Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I etc.
> Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
> Node.js - JavaScript!
>
> --
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>
>
>
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies


On 2020-10-12 6:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple transactions and 
doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe processed through a bank.


So what? The payments system is not running on a mainframe. Nor is the 
mobile payments back-end and all the other infrastructure. Paypal are 
moving to GCP 
https://cloud.google.com/customers/featured/paypal#the-solution.


You seem to think I am bashing the mainframe, which I am not. I love the 
mainframe. I work on it everyday and have done for 30+ years. But I have 
a low tolerance for BS!






Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I interviewed 
there)

In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?

If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe!
Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I etc.
Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to
Node.js - JavaScript!

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Coming from the guy who said he does PayPal, Amazon, & Apple transactions and 
doesn’t know those transactions are mainframe processed through a bank.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Monday, October 12, 2020, 5:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I 
> interviewed there)

In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?

If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe! 
Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I etc.
Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to 
Node.js - JavaScript!

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Yes, semantics! Here's another cracker 
https://www.ft.com/content/6f02ce76-e1d6-45d8-b27a-0491281c2507!


On 2020-10-12 5:55 PM, R.S. wrote:

David,

You wrote:

"IBM patents are mostly pathetic."

I understand it as (almost all) IBM patents are pathetic. I disagree 
with such generalisation.


Now you write:
"It was me that said they were pathetic"
Which can be understood as SOME patents are pathetic. Note: not 
"mostly", and not "IBM patents".


English is not my native language, but I see important difference 
between those two statements.


My opinion - I sustain what I wrote, with no changes or distortions.
Maybe it is not obvious, but I didn't say there are no pathetic 
patents at all. However I think such patents are exceptions, not 
majority.





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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-12 Thread R.S.


David,

You wrote:

"IBM patents are mostly pathetic."

I understand it as (almost all) IBM patents are pathetic. I disagree 
with such generalisation.


Now you write:
"It was me that said they were pathetic"
Which can be understood as SOME patents are pathetic. Note: not 
"mostly", and not "IBM patents".


English is not my native language, but I see important difference 
between those two statements.


My opinion - I sustain what I wrote, with no changes or distortions.
Maybe it is not obvious, but I didn't say there are no pathetic patents 
at all. However I think such patents are exceptions, not majority.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 12.10.2020 o 04:39, David Crayford pisze:
It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark. 
There's a website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is 
dominated by IBM.


Here's a good one! 
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/02/stupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email


A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have 
their names on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product 
feature that they designed
that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are 
the first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM 
wanted to use patents

as bargaining chips.

On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S. 
 wrote:


Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.



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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

> Is this kind of behavior what you are describing as "defensive"?

No. Is that the sort of "reasoning" you normally  use?

> Who made you the gospel of truth?

What are you smoking?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Crayford 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Is this kind of behavior what you are describing as "defensive"?
https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html

You said IBM only file defensive patents. Who made you the gospel of truth?


On 2020-10-12 4:10 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> What part of "defensive patent" don't you understand. The article you cited 
> made it abundantly clear that the USPTO is broken. IBM is far from the only 
> company to file defensive patents. The intent is not to prevent others from 
> using the technique, but to prevent others from successfully patenting it.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> David Crayford 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:39 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark.
> There's a website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is
> dominated by IBM.
>
> Here's a good one!
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-jcLI-dk2XuBOqXGuXTrUxABiJbwOwRqbBNDBV0YW0k6jNpNfVVfUOZWCv2ybSGyDQgPAURzeZGDiFKNNexudcJIMR6CUgByBvhwvogf0CmuXgE3pngzNnmyFcStgw2ydJBAd5Mex27YJ6BllXpQ5ckRZd8SXcunqSd7pPa-_7sy-k_nKVwsW0vvUte9MEkwSShbJtXbcXUZAadgNpKwE5P3eG8vWb_hYyV4r5nej-pfdPSlVifozfOJNsesF6vRhHgt7YVO9X36MdVF39gP1Cvd1Xh7Ttq40a5FR_oYAoeiGAM6gx6QfFfgSYJyekP7ZmNQtYT2KhnDRjsqnh96njpO8_aeVsVm_n-vhZtLec9ErK1pxeMPEUXua2DdM_3qqxZzaI0uSOuFQJUUdcFgElBqyEYbzjcvD0me7JaTaaS6RGGaSNrlf9alf6g0yp9DJhlOypIOsXe9PC0lVLok4g/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eff.org%2Fdeeplinks%2F2017%2F02%2Fstupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email
>
> A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their
> names on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature
> that they designed
> that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the
> first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted
> to use patents
> as bargaining chips.
>
> On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
>> Including those like Microsoft and Google.
>> Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
>> of them or cannot make any.
>>
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Well, the original meaning was sloppy, inept work. The Tech Model Railroad Club 
at MIT introduced a new usage, and the media conflated that with "cracker". 
Some hackers are also crackers, but by no means all.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mike Hochee 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 7:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Charles, you must've found my creds!  Please dispose of them in a secure 
manner. :-)

You make a good point. And to muddy things further, the AWS user community 
seems to use the term 'hack' when referring to techniques to accomplish things 
that are completely acceptable and above-board.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws -- what 
IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb user 
errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was because 
someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a table in 
Denny's.

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure 
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with, 
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just anecdotal 
stuff of course

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1j6Pmcn-zpu8-VCRrm93BntNiLdC9vN3f0cfokG9gGodxLq2d072S7OG4w9A5VyN0m3JQRMUi4xF6m24QGATISW0hCY2Dw74TTaFif3t4kZpeXwbz5VWIlwBOU1SQB2nf93EBq4jR7bCqt7_cfa3XoMeWvgxcns-FsdTv4yAhm91dgcJlDOTnCUNwDMQGPKcadw_d_HrO4FdtJrTyF1JMUri1jndb2-V9XCjvhulk2wnhqfIlshQw_MlX4tUc15z71Dt8CVNuBxiIOTBJ8zZvJ00rc6dDPuXTG7PvNDIX2ijKKdxEj1cQ01fhmXRW1Bq0RInveLYKzu9w2ZJAbd_PuwmlEi7kLlRas7oXPnN4IHYkCTxUf_3jIeMqAG3FJOC3dF3-aOU46Jh810VAW9WC3vxJdv3pvKblaccSf4b27KaWtXFK_iSDkkj8K8VENIph/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbronline.com%2Fnews%2Faws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CgwsJgIqqCZXbxItYxP3s2Epo6V3vEfvcj0_pvICPBFnqbmYOmQq2f-rs30lMWgyxJPk2jpGJRJu4yonlAQ9cqPBX4hyVlsFEifw0yFXkIzav0_6Mzu2idX7h_c6zKrFNKNNmxGI7H-A4j8G25PdC3WIGLchm-cFeBoiu3KnBAlMY3-nc7CByrHo2Lb7qtAmUNJFqEOGCih5GVaSjr4W4SB8wrmILQ5O8wAMvzbgc7sQbdeePy0gshp1RQgEQsJXkuaABYRFUh04E4091iHsK3cXSxIl9DpH0mFp0Y6E_1UL7xUaumQJMY8u_TbUpbow8cBKjd-4UZFgBg1DbH3mpvac9hXNDbXIO1HZTVJpWu5bdlKK4hGbeaO7L0IBIjtQLOnLgRm-vlF6jlzyT7fKwvVmpKpNaAUO5KPLdsaVH0l3GaxyWVlxB8VyiNahYBQb/https%3A%2F%2Ftamebay.com%2F2020%2F05%2Famazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html

https://secure-web.cisco.com/18R72FOi1BZLnZXuX6yxlpEJ52VkBsovO7AWkEO-aQujUd3IbIgqku4E9QKj27rKmu7mJYsnu9iy505NANzmwhZ6HmKFKI7GWc5sLdRMjvH2BehjZE6tX_TAURdlLeK_7XRZfN9DjAcG_xBzarmbEY-EuzrpHfUWAJTVgj8csJDXzo4qv4ecWJgTz_GkySaeWfZxCKX_6wKWD8V9lFRTnsRb3p0CnkszZHXegO9Pn_UkCYybBOLxX0sUt6dZkqdQJ_xPa_w9WXIPk9C47AoKPBknbu_aGSr4imDsmcMKtCJ0qM6cOl2h-VndyZoV40yaDffDeUpZ0Pl7-8F7f1gepHPv-w8jklXvaFsXePXQb_6QkYFC6TfJGAxVd8Mb_OIDA-RzvD0DBEm43NGLAh574xbJuw9Z7zf0ui0PiHKVexv4tzhLVRWSyWzHsVOzI6e8Z/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fmoney%2F10519079%2Famazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters%2F

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the security 
front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and access 
management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder what 
an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years, 
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or
>wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what 
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IB

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

FSVO two larger than the standard value.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 7:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Hold on, I'll post them here for you in a minute.

"Hack" and "hacker" has always had the two meanings, the white and black hat
meanings.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 4:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Charles, you must've found my creds!  Please dispose of them in a secure
manner. :-)

You make a good point. And to muddy things further, the AWS user community
seems to use the term 'hack' when referring to techniques to accomplish
things that are completely acceptable and above-board.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws --
what IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb
user errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was
because someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a
table in Denny's.

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with,
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just
anecdotal stuff of course

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1VTzFjuATviCAhuT5E1W_7xl72YU9s5X0JaH6Tf7anj88qmCC_lgTImkHZ35sGYxirTRqyu969vlba9PoDC04LJfNclxEzPiNbLiBw-EqZiDkqJvO8C7ATQrGUejrlSwE-ZK2qvga-u8RmW_3r-j3RRr-iLHROzrUyL2KYpWcxS6vfhEmEkYqKNSvJqNfAqQx3Zk9wSdAMMp3LIGrXovyKsJSDQwajSlMDa_ddnwbGZ-GL-xqY9JcShGQAuXlvN14T1AhC0cHt8rd0OYrN6UcoJncoxuNfnJcCyLN079glPA68CZEOYwCA0aWqnLLMjJ_E0whksefvP_7vc68la8qD_d109QNXRJO5JqmIL5CvGSs0RDZVEniNlQB8FpiKeR-QAaaC2XB7o1aOQD7tQrZTIav7-5pbFd56Xg-7hbMO2wt6u-VDXyP0JT_jtFP6W5O/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbronline.com%2Fnews%2Faws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1DHP3Sjng4WM_zX3ulKB54LR9N6PlVEUfnYdQfLO1Vy4701nWWO9_XhKXA9fLIyVd0HAVr1cRpbSO0Rk0wVZOCAmCKODUXGDpc6gXI2hyIWt8gIWsSo6sNNfrLSw0l0fmLYZLnItZLz9fXh-c2_El-ect8PgFO2BRcJLczJTGAbHAvlcb8iOMLWVVEYyopB25zX8tr4VQzc-FV2kccH1djF2xhLONLj9j9jmAdDJQPV4Yv4TnlmXeMopGRFiI3Knw7_cLJpVoq-i0RyUXwE1GuRnjZQX1e4dF3jnu0bBqbkLzqAE75M55_Mi9vLYxwr_OcjTwS-vth1VkgYJbwNHsLlCOtGZX5yQrD8RAx-JYrri8MP70-ypRGA3TYaBNVZpmN14KUoWQvCNVSxxdIuaiNuIUhM8JHj9wEIZ7LwsqIAl8Ln8jo2mFnQ-w0dzwOScs/https%3A%2F%2Ftamebay.com%2F2020%2F05%2Famazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Z68YEzLszxbuXZWax5QMVuakmNaSX9WWEIrNNSGJTNavNiktPAJk-thQ0vLyb_WIttNgnlX8EMGlQZb3Bw_B_iklhB_hqPRg_aKXTbLqHxsm_87IabADU_ENPhpmQN4pf-QVpFmFyYI_Lb92Rg0MB_RsnoyCnSuWkdrbvv0TGxG6cFpHpc_4GgWgCTRInwafRdI9ZaaaijDncG7tu7GpKk0sh2J6yRPtzwP8P4D-CDrTOA9IH4IVj0stDyTmRL_h_A3LAVYcxhQFsTcjpP-oPE7y1GHzi_CJxAycuYmYgTCQFXCx_foXbJH9WWjhRd4yMpttIKdbyvHUQmHKXqdP0msSFOxg_Y5MtQUMt2yWCoLWyss3o6LEJE5H7vS5EVKFVVWIMPDom4x4fetg1bpF8xCDmdYXJYK0T3zVljxNJFQbEADLh-6S_mZpCP2U2Q0g/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fmoney%2F10519079%2Famazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters%2F

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the
security front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and
access management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder
what an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years,
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is do

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

That's one scenario, but the broken system also provides a perverse incentive 
to file defensive patents, where the goal is not to collect license fees but 
simply to prevent others from obtaining a patent on the same idea.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Wayne Bickerdike 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 7:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Unfortunately, the U.S. patent system creates warped incentives for
emerging software fields like road-safety features. Rather than competing
in a challenging space, some players are seeking broadly-worded patents,
then hope to sit back and extract profits later.

That may be the strategy of the International Business Machine Corp., which
has acquired more U.S. patents than any other company for decades now. This
week, IBM was awarded U.S. Patent No. 10,191,462
<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2=HITOFF=1=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html=1=G=50=AND=PTXT=10191462=10191462=10191462>,
describing a “Vehicle electronic receptionist.”

IBM likely has the resources to make technology to manage communications
while driving. But the ’462 patent describes nothing of the sort. Instead,
IBM’s patent simply describes a computerized decision-making process.


https://secure-web.cisco.com/1RWrGtPeaMJvxnTXIEYDJaw8qVOQJsc5rieqkupz4T4nqLgMRiJ4eJJo05REfbsdw4uBFU1Ltu59LIUbe29C14saoCDQ8YxZ6vBQBBz5Y0uvztrfVzV1iUaTOypbJmqB0BjQvA9aPk6tZPPRCqeQom2u4DkJP7fYlHBbRVJshGvUgT6oliJR6ncgrj1xZ_SKSJ2Tg7ImfJFkudvZMRy6ouLx3fkDLNWKwFh0uIIROPIjU_o-lOKwqsHPG-VRuPEvsjupUiP0ZEm9TlMq9qSYliztatJ2rDxjfd6LETp_EWBMBlCDt9tKKjRFZqfZbkES-0yyJKiUH6NVWcfn0cLNJd8iX2Ro9RK2xNYHWZXGw15Ct02cEntu-ffq9-kUY-flAjYY6UturDD0TIiYfASpcdgAzaUo1h0XcX1TTPAWgJNYx1xULhzqhfULNzzrTXtr0k5Le2sYu3SUwLHqLLocti2uKSI9TiVK1RQhMKSJZHZk/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eff.org%2Fdeeplinks%2F2019%2F01%2Fstupid-patent-month-ibms-software-patent-texting-and-driving

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:18 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Did you want them to wait for someone else to patent it and have an
> expensive court battle to invalidate it?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Wayne Bickerdike 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:14 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
> that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.
>
> I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> > The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> > they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> > paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> > else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
> >
> > IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> > of David Crayford 
> > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> > railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> > Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> > everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> > bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> > code. They give it away for free.
> >
> > On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> > exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> > the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> > information.
> > > We deal with them every day.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> > out
> > > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded
> to.
> > > It was IBM

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Is this kind of behavior what you are describing as "defensive"? 
https://www.forbes.com/asap/2002/0624/044.html


You said IBM only file defensive patents. Who made you the gospel of truth?


On 2020-10-12 4:10 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

What part of "defensive patent" don't you understand. The article you cited 
made it abundantly clear that the USPTO is broken. IBM is far from the only company to 
file defensive patents. The intent is not to prevent others from using the technique, but 
to prevent others from successfully patenting it.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of David 
Crayford 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark.
There's a website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is
dominated by IBM.

Here's a good one!
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-jcLI-dk2XuBOqXGuXTrUxABiJbwOwRqbBNDBV0YW0k6jNpNfVVfUOZWCv2ybSGyDQgPAURzeZGDiFKNNexudcJIMR6CUgByBvhwvogf0CmuXgE3pngzNnmyFcStgw2ydJBAd5Mex27YJ6BllXpQ5ckRZd8SXcunqSd7pPa-_7sy-k_nKVwsW0vvUte9MEkwSShbJtXbcXUZAadgNpKwE5P3eG8vWb_hYyV4r5nej-pfdPSlVifozfOJNsesF6vRhHgt7YVO9X36MdVF39gP1Cvd1Xh7Ttq40a5FR_oYAoeiGAM6gx6QfFfgSYJyekP7ZmNQtYT2KhnDRjsqnh96njpO8_aeVsVm_n-vhZtLec9ErK1pxeMPEUXua2DdM_3qqxZzaI0uSOuFQJUUdcFgElBqyEYbzjcvD0me7JaTaaS6RGGaSNrlf9alf6g0yp9DJhlOypIOsXe9PC0lVLok4g/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eff.org%2Fdeeplinks%2F2017%2F02%2Fstupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email

A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their
names on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature
that they designed
that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the
first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted
to use patents
as bargaining chips.

On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.


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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

What part of "defensive patent" don't you understand. The article you cited 
made it abundantly clear that the USPTO is broken. IBM is far from the only 
company to file defensive patents. The intent is not to prevent others from 
using the technique, but to prevent others from successfully patenting it.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Crayford 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark.
There's a website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is
dominated by IBM.

Here's a good one!
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-jcLI-dk2XuBOqXGuXTrUxABiJbwOwRqbBNDBV0YW0k6jNpNfVVfUOZWCv2ybSGyDQgPAURzeZGDiFKNNexudcJIMR6CUgByBvhwvogf0CmuXgE3pngzNnmyFcStgw2ydJBAd5Mex27YJ6BllXpQ5ckRZd8SXcunqSd7pPa-_7sy-k_nKVwsW0vvUte9MEkwSShbJtXbcXUZAadgNpKwE5P3eG8vWb_hYyV4r5nej-pfdPSlVifozfOJNsesF6vRhHgt7YVO9X36MdVF39gP1Cvd1Xh7Ttq40a5FR_oYAoeiGAM6gx6QfFfgSYJyekP7ZmNQtYT2KhnDRjsqnh96njpO8_aeVsVm_n-vhZtLec9ErK1pxeMPEUXua2DdM_3qqxZzaI0uSOuFQJUUdcFgElBqyEYbzjcvD0me7JaTaaS6RGGaSNrlf9alf6g0yp9DJhlOypIOsXe9PC0lVLok4g/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eff.org%2Fdeeplinks%2F2017%2F02%2Fstupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email

A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their
names on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature
that they designed
that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the
first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted
to use patents
as bargaining chips.

On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
> wrote:
>
> Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
> Including those like Microsoft and Google.
> Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
> of them or cannot make any.
>

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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Steve Thompson

Having been at a company IBM acquired, we were told that if we could come up 
with a novel way to throw paper into a trash can

Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct 
mistaks 


> On Oct 11, 2020, at 10:39 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
> It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark. There's a 
> website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is dominated by IBM.
> 
> Here's a good one! 
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/02/stupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email
> 
> A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their names 
> on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature that they 
> designed
> that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the 
> first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted to 
> use patents
> as bargaining chips.
> 
>> On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
>> Including those like Microsoft and Google.
>> Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
>> of them or cannot make any.
>> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies


On 2020-10-12 12:19 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I interviewed 
there)


In what parallel universe did Amazon, Paypal run a mainframe? lala-land?

If I google "paypal technology stack" and I don't see a mainframe! 
Mainframes are for running legacy applications written in COBOL, PL/I etc.
Paypal is written in Java, Scala, Python and recently replatformed to 
Node.js - JavaScript!


--
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

It was me that said they were pathetic and I stand by that remark. 
There's a website that has a "stupid patent of the month" which is 
dominated by IBM.


Here's a good one! 
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/02/stupid-patent-month-ibm-patents-out-office-email


A lot of my colleagues are ex IBMers and quite a few of them have their 
names on patents. A lot of those patents are stupid! Any product feature 
that they designed
that was considered novel they lodged a patent request for. They are the 
first ones to acknowledge that the process was brain-damaged. IBM wanted 
to use patents

as bargaining chips.

On 2020-10-12 12:27 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Wayne Bickerdike

Unfortunately, the U.S. patent system creates warped incentives for
emerging software fields like road-safety features. Rather than competing
in a challenging space, some players are seeking broadly-worded patents,
then hope to sit back and extract profits later.

That may be the strategy of the International Business Machine Corp., which
has acquired more U.S. patents than any other company for decades now. This
week, IBM was awarded U.S. Patent No. 10,191,462
<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2=HITOFF=1=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html=1=G=50=AND=PTXT=10191462=10191462=10191462>,
describing a “Vehicle electronic receptionist.”

IBM likely has the resources to make technology to manage communications
while driving. But the ’462 patent describes nothing of the sort. Instead,
IBM’s patent simply describes a computerized decision-making process.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/01/stupid-patent-month-ibms-software-patent-texting-and-driving

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:18 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> Did you want them to wait for someone else to patent it and have an
> expensive court battle to invalidate it?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Wayne Bickerdike 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:14 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
> that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.
>
> I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> > The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> > they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> > paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> > else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
> >
> > IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> > of David Crayford 
> > Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> > railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> > Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> > everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> > bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> > code. They give it away for free.
> >
> > On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> > exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> > the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> > information.
> > > We deal with them every day.
> > >
> > > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> > out
> > > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded
> to.
> > > It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> > > customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good
> > for
> > > 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad
> that
> > > approach is?
> > >
> > > Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain
> why
> > > the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> > > they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> > > know.
> > >
> > > Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't
> use
> > z.
> > > (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> > > You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> > > different.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> > > 0047540adefe-dma

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Charles Mills

Hold on, I'll post them here for you in a minute.

"Hack" and "hacker" has always had the two meanings, the white and black hat
meanings.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 4:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Charles, you must've found my creds!  Please dispose of them in a secure
manner. :-) 

You make a good point. And to muddy things further, the AWS user community
seems to use the term 'hack' when referring to techniques to accomplish
things that are completely acceptable and above-board. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws --
what IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb
user errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was
because someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a
table in Denny's.

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with,
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just
anecdotal stuff of course

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the
security front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and
access management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder
what an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years,
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or 
>wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that
Amazon has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of
the need for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.
Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for
fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high
availability better than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Mike Hochee

Charles, you must've found my creds!  Please dispose of them in a secure 
manner. :-) 

You make a good point. And to muddy things further, the AWS user community 
seems to use the term 'hack' when referring to techniques to accomplish things 
that are completely acceptable and above-board. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws -- what 
IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb user 
errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was because 
someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a table in 
Denny's.

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure 
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with, 
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just anecdotal 
stuff of course

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the security 
front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and access 
management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder what 
an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years, 
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or 
>wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what 
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that Amazon 
has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of the need 
for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.
Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for 
fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high 
availability better than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Charles Mills

I would think one needs to distinguish between AWS infrastructure flaws --
what IBM would call violations of the statement of integrity -- versus dumb
user errors. The pop press is going to call it "an AWS hack" even if it was
because someone left their userid and password behind on a Post-It note on a
table in Denny's. 

Of course the two cases can blur somewhat if there are infrastructure
characteristics that make it particularly easy for a user to screw it up.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with,
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just
anecdotal stuff of course  

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud 

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-acco
unt-recovery-advice.html 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/ 

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the
security front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and
access management UG...
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.
html?icmpid=docs_iam_console  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder
what an AWS secure key repository and management tools might look like.  

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years,
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants
to do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that
Amazon has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of
the need for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.
Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for
fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high
availability better than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Mike Hochee

I do not have an accurate big picture nor a decent set of data to work with, 
but here are a few google hits that do not inspire confidence, just anecdotal 
stuff of course  

https://www.cbronline.com/news/aws-servers-hacked-rootkit-in-the-cloud 

https://tamebay.com/2020/05/amazon-warn-of-hacked-amazon-accounts-issue-account-recovery-advice.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10519079/amazon-accounts-hacked-fraudsters/ 

Does AWS have any security components on par with ICSF and RACF on the security 
front that you're aware of?  Here's a link to their identity and access 
management UG... 
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/IAM/latest/UserGuide/id_credentials_access-keys.html?icmpid=docs_iam_console
  Browsing through it briefly makes me wonder what an AWS secure key repository 
and management tools might look like.  

Having been the victim of a minor identity theft myself in recent years, 
probably adds to my skepticism about cloud service provider security claims.   

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants to 
>do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea of what 
cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also suspect that Amazon 
has all of their computing on their cloud and is very well aware of the need 
for high security and has worked very hard to achieve it.  Microsoft based on 
my experience with their Knowledge Center (repository for fixes and the 
equivalent of PTF cover letters) seems to understand high availability better 
than IBM based on postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Seymour J Metz

Did you want them to wait for someone else to patent it and have an expensive 
court battle to invalidate it?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Wayne Bickerdike 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.

I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
>
> IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of David Crayford 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> information.
> > We deal with them every day.
> >
> > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> out
> > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> > It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> > customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good
> for
> > 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> > approach is?
> >
> > Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> > the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> > they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> > know.
> >
> > Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use
> z.
> > (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> > You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> > different.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> >> bigger than 2% to me.
> >>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cp3i2g4xxv5xAiOhNSH9asQgAtxabZeedP72s34Yoy97MA2TNpgZziu32XKk2j51vj3MjoslYkPKOMVBdfmKAcrRkVKxyzoNx1chEh1FhL8AWcQRTCiE42bfCYv1oSv6x33vpt3EI6LMjmirQKq9HB5ds4CfTz-I-Br9WAJkn0N_8ol-EGR8zbkpGlT7uQ_on1wTZQz1cvYQ35YWKGGX5qoNYz2VHWbBkuv4cxcyVaFWBrmdYVSDRswyIQybcXkjo3AXzCLg1n-3V84PWF0PgohuVLen_PPSYLGpU0W3-FNPcMwDexPYlKIQ-VMdqJ_WWgZoAr2qOPJ4GXnj0PadbBKgZnNQIiVF-Nh1AkV8iRsRQ-lxzuneKseiVgBSMLEmd-PxYqzfYps5E4CWuaCK8NvZ5vckiQt2FluZBDc3Bg8s9yrv3CXGmkxn1P9NlJzvvAqUvdiD6xXivnfWi7aHSQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
> >> Read up.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> >> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> >> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> >> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> >> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> >> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> >> large

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Wayne Bickerdike

IBM have a patent on the SORTL instruction. I guess they are entitled to do
that but IMHO what it does is hardly new. How it does it, perhaps.

I wish I had patented run flat tires. It was my idea many years ago.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:14 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and
> they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the
> paten as prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody
> else from patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.
>
> IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of David Crayford 
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> > IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid
> the groundwork for much of today’s IT.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical
> information.
> > We deal with them every day.
> >
> > And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call
> out
> > BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> > It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> > customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good
> for
> > 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> > approach is?
> >
> > Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> > the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> > they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> > know.
> >
> > Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use
> z.
> > (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> > You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> > different.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> >> bigger than 2% to me.
> >>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cp3i2g4xxv5xAiOhNSH9asQgAtxabZeedP72s34Yoy97MA2TNpgZziu32XKk2j51vj3MjoslYkPKOMVBdfmKAcrRkVKxyzoNx1chEh1FhL8AWcQRTCiE42bfCYv1oSv6x33vpt3EI6LMjmirQKq9HB5ds4CfTz-I-Br9WAJkn0N_8ol-EGR8zbkpGlT7uQ_on1wTZQz1cvYQ35YWKGGX5qoNYz2VHWbBkuv4cxcyVaFWBrmdYVSDRswyIQybcXkjo3AXzCLg1n-3V84PWF0PgohuVLen_PPSYLGpU0W3-FNPcMwDexPYlKIQ-VMdqJ_WWgZoAr2qOPJ4GXnj0PadbBKgZnNQIiVF-Nh1AkV8iRsRQ-lxzuneKseiVgBSMLEmd-PxYqzfYps5E4CWuaCK8NvZ5vckiQt2FluZBDc3Bg8s9yrv3CXGmkxn1P9NlJzvvAqUvdiD6xXivnfWi7aHSQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
> >> Read up.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> >> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> >> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> >> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> >> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> >> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> >> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> >> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
> >>
> >> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
> Azure,
> >> and even GCP.
> >>
> >> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
> from
> >> the real

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Clark Morris

[Default] On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 10:40:07 -0700 (PDT), in
bit.listserv.ibm-main computer chyck  wrote:

>> snip much
>
>Cloud computing is alot like teenage sex - everybody is doing it (or wants to 
>do it) but nobody has a flippin' clue how to do it correctly!!!

What I fear is that Amazon and Microsoft both have a far better idea
of what cloud computing is and how to do it than does IBM.  I also
suspect that Amazon has all of their computing on their cloud and is
very well aware of the need for high security and has worked very hard
to achieve it.  Microsoft based on my experience with their Knowledge
Center (repository for fixes and the equivalent of PTF cover letters)
seems to understand high availability better than IBM based on
postings here on ibm-main.

Clark Morris  

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Seymour J Metz

The broken US patent system forces IBM to take out defensive patents, and 
they're far from the only ones to do so. Note that if USPTO denies the paten as 
prior art or as obvious to a practitioner, that blocks anybody else from 
patenting it, which achieves IBM's objective.

IBM is far from the only company with a portfolio of defensive patents.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Crayford 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
code. They give it away for free.

On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
> We deal with them every day.
>
> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> approach is?
>
> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> know.
>
> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> different.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>> bigger than 2% to me.
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cp3i2g4xxv5xAiOhNSH9asQgAtxabZeedP72s34Yoy97MA2TNpgZziu32XKk2j51vj3MjoslYkPKOMVBdfmKAcrRkVKxyzoNx1chEh1FhL8AWcQRTCiE42bfCYv1oSv6x33vpt3EI6LMjmirQKq9HB5ds4CfTz-I-Br9WAJkn0N_8ol-EGR8zbkpGlT7uQ_on1wTZQz1cvYQ35YWKGGX5qoNYz2VHWbBkuv4cxcyVaFWBrmdYVSDRswyIQybcXkjo3AXzCLg1n-3V84PWF0PgohuVLen_PPSYLGpU0W3-FNPcMwDexPYlKIQ-VMdqJ_WWgZoAr2qOPJ4GXnj0PadbBKgZnNQIiVF-Nh1AkV8iRsRQ-lxzuneKseiVgBSMLEmd-PxYqzfYps5E4CWuaCK8NvZ5vckiQt2FluZBDc3Bg8s9yrv3CXGmkxn1P9NlJzvvAqUvdiD6xXivnfWi7aHSQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
>> Read up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>> the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>> do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>> companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread Seymour J Metz

No, but the patent *process* is. In principle the USPTO should not issue a 
patent obvious to practitioners or that is prior art; in reality, it happens 
all the time.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
R.S. 
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth 
> its weight in gold.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
>> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
>> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
>> We deal with them every day.
>>
>> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
>> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
>> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
>> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
>> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
>> approach is?
>>
>> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
>> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
>> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
>> know.
>>
>> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
>> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
>> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
>> different.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>>> bigger than 2% to me.
>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1E6yv0YYCCY-AkJdqS9-AsIYtOgIwHIy4Ow8og6r7HPwX_hufFwUCDANP0-vIRezLVxsaG1YoPyeAQn2_QK8FKcWMYJWHsa2XyruwkNWE8a8cqGD4iJC-nVfANSKQJ7Z8SQKB9ccfRD_tk-R30C6iyI0lg5kDpmzHl1m8jNbbTO_3pu7_mcNCTt8Mp01_HMPe5c5U-foKna2HtHA-l-Sy28EBz6vlnpyjQ4I0PQ6GxyL7_ZgXoFabHiBxOuoQ5kXqy2Mr-_2n8jstnH37c_7YGZsGllm5FbqdTGi-yQLSJdKnRneoLhDda4bll7yk3eYlYQF6-O685Wh6Nra6i2M2VHe_2urtsnkCCpa6D1TuMd1_aqoBLrv9k3AfRLpIUuo06PZvOgEd-ZvHQkPQmn-8Slv3xUpwy3Ehy6IAiKpFPGAyVi6iVY6gPUdblMcAreglzq4SFK2gOf7a4Bnus1jTLQ/https%3A%2F%2Fcloudwars.co%2Fcloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world%2F
>>> Read up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>>
>>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>>> and even GCP.
>>>
>>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>>> truth is out

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

And yes, we had battery and generator backup. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:18 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.

And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?


On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are rea

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

e-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>>> Of Bill Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>>
>>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
>>> IBM is enterprise.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
>>> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
>>> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
>>> 26% of the SaaS market".
>>> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
>>> player.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
>>>> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>>>>
>>>> |
>>>> |
>>>> |
>>>> |  |    |
>>>>
>>>>        |
>>>>
>>>>      |
>>>> |
>>>> |  |
>>>> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>>>>
>>>> Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
>>>> compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
>>>> leading cloud  providers.
>>>>      |  |
>>>>
>>>>      |
>>>>
>>>>      |
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
>>>> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Classification: HCL Internal
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
>>>>> the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
>>>>> The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
>>>> surface,
>>>>> this is a win-win.
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
>>>>> APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>>>>> Behalf Of Dave Jousma
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
>>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>>>> Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
>>>>>
>>>>> [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you
>>>>> trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be
>>>>> a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise
>>>>> your Computer.]
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone know any more about this?
>>> --
>>>
>>> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
>>> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
>>> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized
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>>> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
>>> e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

True. Thanks.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:36 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Bill,
I know that. I just complemented your answer.

BTW: I also wasn't the person wrote about IBM was not forced out.
However I believe you also knew that.
Fortunately listserv is written, so everyone may read the history and 
re-read if needed.

Regards
-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:27, Bill Johnson pisze:
> I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
> wrote:
>
> Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
> Including those like Microsoft and Google.
> Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
> of them or cannot make any.
>

==

Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości:

- powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!),
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tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies


Bill,
I know that. I just complemented your answer.

BTW: I also wasn't the person wrote about IBM was not forced out.
However I believe you also knew that.
Fortunately listserv is written, so everyone may read the history and 
re-read if needed.



Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:27, Bill Johnson pisze:

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents.
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few
of them or cannot make any.





==

Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości:

- powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!),
- usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś 
na dysku).
Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać 
tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych.

If you are not the addressee of this message:

- let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!),
- delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have 
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law and may be penalised.

mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020.

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I agree. It wasn’t me who said they were pathetic.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:26 PM, R.S.  
wrote:

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents. 
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few 
of them or cannot make any.

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth 
> its weight in gold.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
> railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
> Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
> everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
> bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
> code. They give it away for free.
>
> On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
>> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
>> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
>> We deal with them every day.
>>
>> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
>> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
>> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
>> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
>> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
>> approach is?
>>
>> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
>> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
>> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
>> know.
>>
>> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
>> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
>> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
>> different.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>>> bigger than 2% to me.
>>> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
>>> Read up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>>
>>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>>> and even GCP.
>>>
>>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>>> truth is out there.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>>> the
>>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>>> do.
>>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>>> companies
>>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
>>> slow.
>>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/202

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Patents are not pathetic. Other companies still make new patents. 
Including those like Microsoft and Google.
Patents are still valid and important even if some company have only few 
of them or cannot make any.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland







W dniu 11.10.2020 o 18:11, Bill Johnson pisze:

So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth its 
weight in gold.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google,
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their
code. They give it away for free.

On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
groundwork for much of today’s IT.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
bigger than 2% to me.
https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
Read up.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need

the

lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to

do.

Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller

companies

are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to

slow.

Even with the government contract.



https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 

wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's

at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$

and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and

then

notes that the next ten pl

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Yeah, been hearing the imminent demise stories since the 1990’s. Yet, IBM keeps 
pumping out world class mainframes. And still processes the majority of 
important transactions.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:18 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.

And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?


On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Amazon, PayPal, & Apple either have a mainframe (PayPal did when I interviewed 
there) or their transactions are processed by a bank, which uses the mainframe. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
>> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
>> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
>> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
>> z/OS sys

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

So everything IBM says/does are lies and pathetic?The comedy here is worth its 
weight in gold.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 12:08 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a 
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google, 
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so 
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then 
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their 
code. They give it away for free.

On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
> exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
> groundwork for much of today’s IT.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
> We deal with them every day.
>
> And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
> BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
> It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
> customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
> 2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
> approach is?
>
> Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
> the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
> they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
> know.
>
> Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
> (Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
> You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
> different.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
>> bigger than 2% to me.
>> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
>> Read up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
>> the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
>> do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
>> companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
>> slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>>
>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>>> Of Bill Johnson
>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

New IBM mainframe can process 1 trillion web transactions a day 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
New IBM mainframe can process 1 trillion web transactions a day
 
IBM is out with its newest mainframe - z15. Yahoo Finance sat down with Tom 
Rosamilia, the Senior Vice President of IBM Systems and Chairman of IBM North 
America to hear how it'll change the industry.
  |   |

  |

  |

  





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM z15 release shines light on how much is still being run on a mainframe | 
ZDNet 
  
|  
|   |  
IBM z15 release shines light on how much is still being run on a mainframe | 
ZDNet
 

  |   |

  |

  





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
>> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
>> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
>> taking their largest five customers and mul

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

PayPal’s mainframe is here in Ohio. Or was when I interviewed there. Apple has 
em too. Why on Earth Is IBM Still Making Mainframes? | WIRED 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
Why on Earth Is IBM Still Making Mainframes? | WIRED
 
On Tuesday, IBM launched the z13 mainframe, which it bills as the first 
mainframe specifically designed to accommodate the booming mobile app economy.
  |   |

  |

  |

  



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:53 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.

On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
> and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established 
> zEnterprise strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, 
> etc., with what I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and 
> web services environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a 
> complement, where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of 
> cloud and web service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.
>
> To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
> nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
> might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
> 10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
> transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
> many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the 
> cloud. Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I 
> thought the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to 
> cloud service providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of 
> security and processing integrity.
>
> I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for 
> any synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and 
> cloud computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue 
> to compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more 
> and more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.
>
> I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
> by someone only six months on the job.
>
> My nickel's worth.
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
> finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
> enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
>> fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
>> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

You are right, but it wasn't just failed implementation. It was blocker 
from legal point of view - both parties wanted to do the business, but 
government law demanded this liability. So, no other attempt of any 
other company (in this business) would be possible.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 17:44, Bill Johnson pisze:

One example of a failed implementation, is hardly representative of anything 
really. I’ve seen hundreds of failed implementations in my 40 years on every 
platform.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:13 AM, R.S.  
wrote:

To complement: AFAIK it is impossible to sign a contract with "full
responsibility" of such cloud provider.
In some cases it is required by govt regulators. I heard about fiasco of
migration to cloud project just because of that.




==

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01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych.

If you are not the addressee of this message:

- let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!),
- delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have 
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Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital 
City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 
025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 
169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020.

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

One example of a failed implementation, is hardly representative of anything 
really. I’ve seen hundreds of failed implementations in my 40 years on every 
platform.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:13 AM, R.S.  
wrote:

To complement: AFAIK it is impossible to sign a contract with "full 
responsibility" of such cloud provider.
In some cases it is required by govt regulators. I heard about fiasco of 
migration to cloud project just because of that.

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 15:41, Bill Johnson pisze:
> Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
> didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
> them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
> pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
> your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
> record compromised.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
> as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
> are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
> huge AWS customer.
>
> The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
> recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
> longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].
>
> You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.
>
> [1]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
> [2]
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/
>
>
> On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer 
>> cloud market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! 
>> And IBM processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No 
>> fortune 100 companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, 
>> highly sensitive information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming 
>> commoditized. Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain 
>> highly profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the 
>> hacks and crashes of consumer cloud services.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
>> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
>> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
>> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
>> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
>> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
>> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
>> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>>
>> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
>> and even GCP.
>>
>> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
>> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
>> truth is out there.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>>> Even with the government contract.
>>>
>>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -Original Mes

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM does indeed process 90% of credit card transactions. Maybe not at POS, but 
at the backend. (POS- point of sale)

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 11:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

A fair question. That's based on working with all of the top-ten
processors, most or all of whom still use NonStop.

Compaq bought Tandem, HP bought Compaq, then when HP split into HP and HPE,
the NonStop business went to HPE.

Yes, NonStop is way down from its peak. Credit card processing seems to be
one of the places where it's remained strong. But it's still serious enough
that HP/HPE (not sure which at the time) recently moved the OS from Itanium
to x86 hardware, which was surely a big effort. Of course Itanium was going
away, but my point is that if there wasn't still a real business there,
that would have been an ideal time to kill it.

There are NonStop user groups around the world still, and with the
pandemic, they're going virtual. If you're interested, check one out. Good
folks, talking about stuff every bit as arcane as what we see on this list!

An observation: it seems to me that the smaller platforms do better with
user groups. I'm guessing this is because if you have, say, a Windows
problem, there are millions of other folks with the same problem, so
Googling the problem gets you a solution. If you have a problem with
something on a less commonly used platform, a user group is a better bet,
although of course lists like this one are also great! So that builds more
of a sense of community, which lets user groups thrive. Not that there
aren't tons of Windows user groups, but from what I've seen they're run by
a couple of die-hards and most of the rest don't participate much, don't
show up for many meetings, etc. Maybe that's just my experience.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 10:10 AM R.S. 
wrote:

> W dniu 09.10.2020 o 04:25, zMan pisze:
> > Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most
> processors
> > are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
> > platforms.
>
> Can you provide any source of this statement?
>  From my limited knowledge it seems NonStop is declining since it was
> merged with Compaq. Or maybe it was merge with HP.
>
> BTW: Nowadays "distributed" no longer means Sun, HP-UX, or Tandem (not
> to mention DEC with Ultrix and VMS). It is just Intel/AMD with Windows
> or Linux. And universal solution for any issue is to add more and more
> servers.
> The only platform which is not in the niche is IBM System p, but even
> here AS/400 line is declining, and AIX loses to Linux.
>

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-11 Thread zMan

A fair question. That's based on working with all of the top-ten
processors, most or all of whom still use NonStop.

Compaq bought Tandem, HP bought Compaq, then when HP split into HP and HPE,
the NonStop business went to HPE.

Yes, NonStop is way down from its peak. Credit card processing seems to be
one of the places where it's remained strong. But it's still serious enough
that HP/HPE (not sure which at the time) recently moved the OS from Itanium
to x86 hardware, which was surely a big effort. Of course Itanium was going
away, but my point is that if there wasn't still a real business there,
that would have been an ideal time to kill it.

There are NonStop user groups around the world still, and with the
pandemic, they're going virtual. If you're interested, check one out. Good
folks, talking about stuff every bit as arcane as what we see on this list!

An observation: it seems to me that the smaller platforms do better with
user groups. I'm guessing this is because if you have, say, a Windows
problem, there are millions of other folks with the same problem, so
Googling the problem gets you a solution. If you have a problem with
something on a less commonly used platform, a user group is a better bet,
although of course lists like this one are also great! So that builds more
of a sense of community, which lets user groups thrive. Not that there
aren't tons of Windows user groups, but from what I've seen they're run by
a couple of die-hards and most of the rest don't participate much, don't
show up for many meetings, etc. Maybe that's just my experience.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 10:10 AM R.S. 
wrote:

> W dniu 09.10.2020 o 04:25, zMan pisze:
> > Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most
> processors
> > are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
> > platforms.
>
> Can you provide any source of this statement?
>  From my limited knowledge it seems NonStop is declining since it was
> merged with Compaq. Or maybe it was merge with HP.
>
> BTW: Nowadays "distributed" no longer means Sun, HP-UX, or Tandem (not
> to mention DEC with Ultrix and VMS). It is just Intel/AMD with Windows
> or Linux. And universal solution for any issue is to add more and more
> servers.
> The only platform which is not in the niche is IBM System p, but even
> here AS/400 line is declining, and AIX loses to Linux.
>

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies


W dniu 09.10.2020 o 04:25, zMan pisze:

Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most processors
are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
platforms.


Can you provide any source of this statement?
From my limited knowledge it seems NonStop is declining since it was 
merged with Compaq. Or maybe it was merge with HP.


BTW: Nowadays "distributed" no longer means Sun, HP-UX, or Tandem (not 
to mention DEC with Ultrix and VMS). It is just Intel/AMD with Windows 
or Linux. And universal solution for any issue is to add more and more 
servers.
The only platform which is not in the niche is IBM System p, but even 
here AS/400 line is declining, and AIX loses to Linux.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





==

Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości:

- powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!),
- usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś 
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tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) 
tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać 
karze.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 
Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. 
Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, 
NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 
01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych.

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169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020.

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

So market cap is now the determining factor for the best companies? Here’s the 
1980 list of market cap leaders. Had IBM not been forced out of the PC market, 
I’d bet IBM would still be at or near the top, and MSFT wouldn’t be.
1980:

1. IBM
2. AT
3. Exxon
4. Standard Oil of Indiana
5. Schlumberger
6. Shell Oil
7. Mobil
8. Standard Oil of California
9. Atlantic Richfield
10. GE


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 2:21 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 2020-10-11 11:18 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
> At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
> going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
> microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
> ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
> to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.
>
> The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.

Just look at the market cap of Netflix vs IBM!

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

To complement: AFAIK it is impossible to sign a contract with "full 
responsibility" of such cloud provider.
In some cases it is required by govt regulators. I heard about fiasco of 
migration to cloud project just because of that.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 11.10.2020 o 15:41, Bill Johnson pisze:

Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
record compromised.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
Even with the government contract.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Anyone who says IBM cloud is a jok

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Who said it has anything to do with the mainframe? The point was that 
IBM's cloud is not great. Mainframes don't, wont and never will have a 
role in public clouds. They are for running legacy applications. Maybe 
hybrid clouds may adopt some z? I certainly hope so. Anything that 
modernizes the platform to give it more life is a good thing for all of us.


And I would love to know what pharmacy has 99.999+ uptime? Do they 
typically run a UPS and generators in case of a power cut? What about 
network redundancy and other fail-overs in the store?



On 2020-10-11 9:41 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
record compromised.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS,
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a
huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
Even with the government contract.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"accoun

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM patents are mostly pathetic. They patent stuff like "how to create a 
railroad diagram using REXX . It's embarrassing! The likes of Google, 
Facebook and even the new Microsoft open source all of their code so 
everybody can use it for free. Software patents are nothing more then 
bargaining chips. Google doesn't care about who has access to their 
code. They give it away for free.


On 2020-10-11 9:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
groundwork for much of today’s IT.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
bigger than 2% to me.
https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
Read up.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need

the

lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to

do.

Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller

companies

are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to

slow.

Even with the government contract.



https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 

wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's

at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$

and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and

then

notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020

|
|
|
|  |    |

     |

   |
|
|  |
Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020

Deep

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Looks to me like those census problems weren’t mainframe related at all. I 
didn’t say enterprises don’t use AZURE or AWS. They do. They just don’t use 
them for mission critical, highly sensitive information. If you walk into a 
pharmacy for life saving meds, you want 99.999+ up time. You also don’t want 
your health records hacked. In fact, most HC companies can get fined 10k per 
record compromised.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:28 AM, David Crayford  
wrote:

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such 
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, 
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a 
huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1] 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2] 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
> market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
> processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
> companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
> information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
> Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly 
> profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and 
> crashes of consumer cloud services.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
>> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
>> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
>> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
>> Even with the government contract.
>>
>> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
>> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
>> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
>> Of Bill Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>
>> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
>> IBM is enterprise.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
>> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
>> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
>> 26% of the SaaS market".
>> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I s

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Bingo.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:10 AM, Mike Hochee  wrote:

Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established zEnterprise 
strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, etc., with what 
I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and web services 
environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a complement, 
where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of cloud and web 
service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.  

To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the cloud. 
Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I thought 
the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to cloud service 
providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of security and 
processing integrity. 

I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for any 
synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and cloud 
computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue to 
compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more and 
more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.  

I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
by someone only six months on the job.  

My nickel's worth. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Crayford
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't recovered 
from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no longer trusts IBM 
and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
> market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
> processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
> companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
> information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
> Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly 
> profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and 
> crashes of consumer cloud services.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the 
> fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't 
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE 
> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 
> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the 
> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by 
> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of 
> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, 
> Azure, and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge 
> from the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. 
> Learn. The truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson < 
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t 
>> need the lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need 
>> to do.
>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller 
>> companies are. Because of the

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM, as usual, almost always leads the US in patents. This year is no 
exception. Which indicates how intelligent their engineers are. IBM laid the 
groundwork for much of today’s IT.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> bigger than 2% to me.
> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
> Read up.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
> the
> > lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
> do.
> > Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
> companies
> > are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> > Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
> slow.
> > Even with the government contract.
> >
> >
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> > 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> > building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> > IBM is enterprise.
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's
> at
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> > and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and
> then
> > notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> > 26% of the SaaS market".
> > So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> > player.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone wh

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I buy stuff on Amazon, use Apple wallet and Paypal so I guess my 
personal financial data is already on the cloud. I won't be losing any 
sleep about that and have no plans to go back to using cash or shopping 
exclusively in stores.


On 2020-10-11 1:10 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:

Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established zEnterprise 
strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, etc., with what 
I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and web services 
environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a complement, 
where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of cloud and web 
service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.

To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the cloud. 
Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I thought 
the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to cloud service 
providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of security and 
processing integrity.

I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for any 
synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and cloud 
computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue to 
compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more and 
more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.

I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
by someone only six months on the job.

My nickel's worth.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Crayford
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't recovered 
from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no longer trusts IBM 
and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/


On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the
fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE
transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000
per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the
planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by
taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of
z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS,
Azure, and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge
from the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers.
Learn. The truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t
need the lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to 
do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
companies are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to 
commoditization

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

IBM would be in the discussion for massive market cap today if not for the 
government forcing them out of the PC market. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:48 AM, Wayne Bickerdike  
wrote:

At 6.5%, the iPhone maker’s share in the S 500 just surpassed the record
6.4% that IBM held 35 years ago, data compiled by S Dow Jones Indices and
Bloomberg show. Apple’s overall market cap stands at $1.875 trillion, about
7% away from $2 trillion.

The breakthrough speaks to the strength of a company that few can match in
a year when Covid-19 is raging. Up 49% this year, Apple’s gain beats all
U.S. companies with a market value above $300 billion, except for
Amazon.com Inc. The share rally has picked up after the company’s quarterly
revenue crushed Wall Street forecasts, boosted by demand from locked down
consumers for new iPhones, iPads and Mac computers to stay connected during
the pandemic.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 2:18 PM Wayne Bickerdike  wrote:

> Hi Charles,
>
> GBG was general business group. DP was Data Processing.
>
> GBG sold Series 1, photocopiers and typewriters, System 34 (back in 1978
> when I was there).
>
> DP sold mainframes and believed that they ruled. So when a salesman went
> to an account, mainframe was always sold above anything else.
>
> At the time, we in GBG were hoping that the anti-trust ruling would be to
> split IBM. It didn't happen. Around that time, Wozniak and Jobs were
> building the first Apples, Silicon Valley was taking off and IBM were in a
> deep sleep.
>
> At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
> going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
> microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
> ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
> to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.
>
> The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.
>
> It's the vision thing! LOL.
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:07 AM Charles Mills  wrote:
>
>> TMA
>>
>> Too many acronyms.
>>
>> What is GBG? What is DP?
>>
>> I know RBG.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike
>> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>
>> Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
>> same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
>> for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
>> would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
>> and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
> --
> Wayne V. Bickerdike
>
>

-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I get it. IBM says something, its a lie. AZURE/AWS says it, it’s gospel. Thanks 
for clearing that up. Give me an example of a company using AZURE/AWS cloud for 
mission critical, highly sensitive information? Then Google all the hacks and 
crashes of those 2 cloud platforms.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 1:43 AM, zMan  wrote:

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> bigger than 2% to me.
> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
> Read up.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
> the
> > lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
> do.
> > Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
> companies
> > are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> > Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
> slow.
> > Even with the government contract.
> >
> >
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> > 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> > building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> > IBM is enterprise.
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's
> at
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> > and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and
> then
> > notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> > 26% of the SaaS market".
> > So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> > player.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe

Re: IBM splitting into two companies


On 2020-10-11 11:18 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:

At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.

The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.


Just look at the market cap of Netflix vs IBM!

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Mike Hochee

Over the last few years I have hoped IBM would become more of a cloud player 
and attempt to marry some of the long-standing and well established zEnterprise 
strengths;  security, reliability, extensibility, performance, etc., with what 
I always perceived to be an inherently less secure cloud and web services 
environment.  I thought there was significant opportunity for a complement, 
where zEnterprise strengths could be leveraged by the needs of cloud and web 
service processing, and this would likely be workload dependent.  

To be sure, there are undoubtedly many cloud based apps that have no need of, 
nor business requirements for, zEnterprise integrity attributes, and a census 
might well be one of them.  Cloud computing has come a long way over the past 
10+ years, but I still don't want my personal financial data and current card 
transactions residing on a public cloud (encrypted or not). I have read too 
many articles which in general testify to the insecurity of data in the cloud. 
Hybrid and private clouds might be another matter, and this is where I thought 
the advantages of zEnterprise could potentially be a value add to cloud service 
providers with customers that expect (demand) a higher level of security and 
processing integrity. 

I suspect the splitting of IBM will only make the communication needed for any 
synergy between the hallmarks of traditional mainframe computing and cloud 
computing more difficult.  In the meantime profit motive will continue to 
compromise the decisions of executives the world over and result in more and 
more insecure hosting of their customer's personal and financial data.   

I wonder what if anything Arvind Krishna thinks about z/OS?  A very bold move 
by someone only six months on the job.   

My nickel's worth. 

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Crayford
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such as the 
finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, are they not 
enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a huge AWS customer.

The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't recovered 
from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no longer trusts IBM 
and has moved to AWS [2].

You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/

On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
> market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
> processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
> companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
> information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
> Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly 
> profitable. Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and 
> crashes of consumer cloud services.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the 
> fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't 
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE 
> transaction quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 
> per day. 112 BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the 
> planet. Be serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by 
> taking their largest five customers and multiplying by the number of 
> z/OS systems out there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, 
> Azure, and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge 
> from the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. 
> Learn. The truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson < 
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t 
>> need the lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need 
>> to do.
>> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller 
>> companies are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to 
>> commoditization.
>> Because it’s easy to replica

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Charles Mills

I recall Series/1 as being from GSD, the General Systems Division; mainframes 
from the Data Processing Division (and FSD, the Federal Systems Division), and 
typewriters from Office Products Division. Yes, DPD folks were the king of the 
hill; called Office Products (OPD) salesmen "opie-dopies."

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Wayne Bickerdike
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Hi Charles,

GBG was general business group. DP was Data Processing.

GBG sold Series 1, photocopiers and typewriters, System 34 (back in 1978
when I was there).

DP sold mainframes and believed that they ruled. So when a salesman went to
an account, mainframe was always sold above anything else.

At the time, we in GBG were hoping that the anti-trust ruling would be to
split IBM. It didn't happen. Around that time, Wozniak and Jobs were
building the first Apples, Silicon Valley was taking off and IBM were in a
deep sleep.

At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.

The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.

It's the vision thing! LOL.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:07 AM Charles Mills  wrote:

> TMA
>
> Too many acronyms.
>
> What is GBG? What is DP?
>
> I know RBG.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
> same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
> for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
> would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
> and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread David Crayford

You're conflating enterprise with traditional mainframe customers such 
as the finance industry. Apple, BP, Shell, Coca-Cola etc all use AWS, 
are they not enterprise customers? As for health care, the UK NHS is a 
huge AWS customer.


The reputation of IBM's cloud (or maybe just IBM) in Australia hasn't 
recovered from the 2016 census fiasco [1]. The Australian government no 
longer trusts IBM and has moved to AWS [2].


You're obviously an IBM fanboy. A lot of what you say is absolute nonsense.

[1] 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/censusfail-an-omnishambles-of-fabulous-proportions/
[2] 
https://www.zdnet.com/article/australian-2021-digital-census-to-be-built-on-aws/



On 2020-10-11 1:39 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
Even with the government contract.

https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
IBM is enterprise.


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020

|
|
|
|  |    |

     |

   |
|
|  |
Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020

Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
leading cloud  providers.
   |  |

   |

   |





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
wrote:

"IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
wrote:


Classification: HCL Internal

Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucr

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Wayne Bickerdike

At 6.5%, the iPhone maker’s share in the S 500 just surpassed the record
6.4% that IBM held 35 years ago, data compiled by S Dow Jones Indices and
Bloomberg show. Apple’s overall market cap stands at $1.875 trillion, about
7% away from $2 trillion.

The breakthrough speaks to the strength of a company that few can match in
a year when Covid-19 is raging. Up 49% this year, Apple’s gain beats all
U.S. companies with a market value above $300 billion, except for
Amazon.com Inc. The share rally has picked up after the company’s quarterly
revenue crushed Wall Street forecasts, boosted by demand from locked down
consumers for new iPhones, iPads and Mac computers to stay connected during
the pandemic.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 2:18 PM Wayne Bickerdike  wrote:

> Hi Charles,
>
> GBG was general business group. DP was Data Processing.
>
> GBG sold Series 1, photocopiers and typewriters, System 34 (back in 1978
> when I was there).
>
> DP sold mainframes and believed that they ruled. So when a salesman went
> to an account, mainframe was always sold above anything else.
>
> At the time, we in GBG were hoping that the anti-trust ruling would be to
> split IBM. It didn't happen. Around that time, Wozniak and Jobs were
> building the first Apples, Silicon Valley was taking off and IBM were in a
> deep sleep.
>
> At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
> going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
> microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
> ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
> to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.
>
> The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.
>
> It's the vision thing! LOL.
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:07 AM Charles Mills  wrote:
>
>> TMA
>>
>> Too many acronyms.
>>
>> What is GBG? What is DP?
>>
>> I know RBG.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike
>> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>>
>> Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
>> same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
>> for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
>> would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
>> and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
> --
> Wayne V. Bickerdike
>
>

-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Wayne Bickerdike

Hi Charles,

GBG was general business group. DP was Data Processing.

GBG sold Series 1, photocopiers and typewriters, System 34 (back in 1978
when I was there).

DP sold mainframes and believed that they ruled. So when a salesman went to
an account, mainframe was always sold above anything else.

At the time, we in GBG were hoping that the anti-trust ruling would be to
split IBM. It didn't happen. Around that time, Wozniak and Jobs were
building the first Apples, Silicon Valley was taking off and IBM were in a
deep sleep.

At my exit interview, my manager asked why I was leaving. I told him I was
going to work for a start-up developing applications for Intel 8080 and Z80
microcomputers. He said, "you can work out a months notice because I don't
ever see IBM getting into those little systems". If he thought I was going
to a competitor, I would have been walked out on the spot.

The rest is history, just look at the market cap of Apple versus IBM.

It's the vision thing! LOL.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:07 AM Charles Mills  wrote:

> TMA
>
> Too many acronyms.
>
> What is GBG? What is DP?
>
> I know RBG.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
> same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
> for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
> would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
> and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread zMan

Well, big companies ARE using AWS, GCP, and Azure for critical information.
We deal with them every day.

And for the record, I'm hardly an IBM or mainframe basher. I just call out
BS when I see it, like that 1.3M/second. Which you have not responded to.
It was IBM who said they came up with that by taking their largest
customers and extrapolating. Using that methodology, every car is good for
2M miles and gets 80MPG. Oh, and we're all billionaires. See how bad that
approach is?

Now, if the $6B is true, that's fascinating. It still doesn't explain why
the dozens of large mainframe shops we work with NEVER mention IBM when
they talk cloud. Maybe IBM has a few really big clients (.gov)? I don't
know.

Back to processing credit card transactions--again, processors don't use z.
(Well, I can think of a couple that do, but by and large, they don't.)
You're confusing processors, acquirers, issuers, and brands. Those are
different.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> 6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks
> bigger than 2% to me.
> https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/
> Read up.
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
> remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
> become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
> quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
> BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
> serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
> largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
> there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?
>
> And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
> and even GCP.
>
> You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
> the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
> truth is out there.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need
> the
> > lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to
> do.
> > Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller
> companies
> > are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> > Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to
> slow.
> > Even with the government contract.
> >
> >
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> > 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> > building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> > IBM is enterprise.
> >
> >
> > On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan 
> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's
> at
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> > and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and
> then
> > notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> > 26% of the SaaS market".
> > So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> > player.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> > >
> > > |
> > > |
> > > |
> > > |  ||
> > >
> > >|
> > >
> > >  |
>

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Charles Mills

TMA

Too many acronyms.

What is GBG? What is DP?

I know RBG.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Wayne Bickerdike
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Wayne Bickerdike

Global services was a poor place for "IBM" employees.  They weren't the
same as the IBMers in terms of benefits.  This has been the trend at IBM
for years. I was an IBMer in the 70s and we hoped that the antitrust cases
would lead to a split so that GBG would separate from DP. It didn't happen
and Windows are their lunch. DXC will be rubbing their hands.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 02:57 Charles Mills  wrote:

> FWIW that is how I took it.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Phil Smith III
> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 7:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
>
> >Perhaps IBM are prepping to sell off Global Services.
>
>
>
> Isn't that what this is? That's what I took "IT infrastructure services
> unit" to mean. Am I confused (always possible, probably likely)?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

6 billion in cloud revenue latest quarter. About half of AZURE. Looks bigger 
than 2% to me.
https://cloudwars.co/cloud-wars-top-10-vendors-world/ 
Read up.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
> Even with the government contract.
>
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> IBM is enterprise.
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> 26% of the SaaS market".
> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> player.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |  |    |
> >
> >    |
> >
> >  |
> > |
> > |  |
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> >compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
> >leading cloud  providers.
> >  |  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> >
> > "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> > maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: HCL Internal
> > >
> > > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface,
> > > this is a win-win.
> > >
> > > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > > To: I

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

You’ve been a mainframe & IBM basher for years. And wrong more often than not. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
> Even with the government contract.
>
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> IBM is enterprise.
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> 26% of the SaaS market".
> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> player.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |  |    |
> >
> >    |
> >
> >  |
> > |
> > |  |
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> >compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
> >leading cloud  providers.
> >  |  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> >
> > "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> > maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: HCL Internal
> > >
> > > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface,
> > > this is a win-win.
> > >
> > > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: IBM splitting into two co

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

You’re comparing 2 entirely different clouds. IBM isn’t in the consumer cloud 
market. There is more money in PC’s than there is in mainframes too! And IBM 
processes 90% of credit card transactions. You were wrong. No fortune 100 
companies are going to use AZURE or AWS for highly critical, highly sensitive 
information. Consumer clouds are everywhere. It’s becoming commoditized. 
Enterprise cloud will never be commoditized and will remain highly profitable. 
Banks, big retailers, and health care can’t afford the hacks and crashes of 
consumer cloud services.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
> Even with the government contract.
>
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> IBM is enterprise.
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> 26% of the SaaS market".
> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> player.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |  |    |
> >
> >    |
> >
> >  |
> > |
> > |  |
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> >compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
> >leading cloud  providers.
> >  |  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> >
> > "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> > maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: HCL Internal
> > >
> > > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface,
> > > this is a win-w

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Yeah, big comp


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 10, 2020, 1:28 PM, zMan  wrote:

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
> Even with the government contract.
>
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> IBM is enterprise.
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> 26% of the SaaS market".
> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> player.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |  |    |
> >
> >    |
> >
> >  |
> > |
> > |  |
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> >compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
> >leading cloud  providers.
> >  |  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> >
> > "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> > maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: HCL Internal
> > >
> > > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface,
> > > this is a win-win.
> > >
> > > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> > >
> > > [CAUTION: This Email is from outsid

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Charles Mills

FWIW that is how I took it.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 7:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Wayne Bickerdike wrote:

>Perhaps IBM are prepping to sell off Global Services.

 

Isn't that what this is? That's what I took "IT infrastructure services
unit" to mean. Am I confused (always possible, probably likely)?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Steve Smith

Evidently Arvind Krishna thinks the IT Services Division (or whatever it
is) is worthless, as he didn't attempt to sell it, he's just throwing it
out.  Apparently, whatever profits it contributes aren't worth the
distraction to his "maniacal" focus on "hybrid cloud".  As the divestment
(calling it a "split" is fine as long as you realize that likely NO one in
GTS wants to "split") is going to take a year, and an estimated $1billion
in transaction costs, I say he'd better be right if he likes his job.

Personally, I don't see how it benefits anyone at all.

sas

On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 10:09 AM Phil Smith III  wrote:

> Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
>
> >Perhaps IBM are prepping to sell off Global Services.
>
>
>
> Isn't that what this is? That's what I took "IT infrastructure services
> unit" to mean. Am I confused (always possible, probably likely)?
>
>
>
> ...phsiii
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread Phil Smith III

Wayne Bickerdike wrote:

>Perhaps IBM are prepping to sell off Global Services.

 

Isn't that what this is? That's what I took "IT infrastructure services unit" 
to mean. Am I confused (always possible, probably likely)?

 

...phsiii


--
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread zMan

Bill, you can quote self-serving SHARE fodder all you like, but the fact
remains: IBM cloud is a joke in the industry. Doesn't mean it couldn't
become a player, but that's aspirational at best. That SHARE transaction
quote is nonsense--do the math: 1.3M/sec=112,320,000,000 per day. 112
BILLION. That's 16 transactions per day per person on the planet. Be
serious. That number comes from IBM, was extrapolated by taking their
largest five customers and multiplying by the number of z/OS systems out
there. Lies, damned lies, and statistics and all that, eh?

And plenty of real, serious, multi-billion-dollar companies use AWS, Azure,
and even GCP.

You work for a vendor; you have access to lots of industry knowledge from
the real world, not SHARE or IBM marketing. Talk to your peers. Learn. The
truth is out there.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 6:57 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the
> lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do.
> Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies
> are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization.
> Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow.
> Even with the government contract.
>
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 <
> 031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies
> building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> 2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds.
> IBM is enterprise.
>
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
> and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then
> notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another
> 26% of the SaaS market".
> So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
> player.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > |
> > |
> > |
> > |  ||
> >
> >|
> >
> >  |
> > |
> > |  |
> > Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
> >
> > Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats
> >compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the
> >leading cloud  providers.
> >  |  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >  |
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> > wrote:
> >
> > "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> > maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: HCL Internal
> > >
> > > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface,
> > > this is a win-win.
> > >
> > > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> > >
> > > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you
> > > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachm

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-10 Thread zMan

No, but no processors use it. Couple of the brands do.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 12:00 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> what is z/TPF, chopped liver?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of zMan 
> Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:25 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most processors
> are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
> platforms.
>
> Some of the brands (AmEx, Visa) use a fair bit of mainframe hardware, but
> they're not processors. And some issuers use z/OS, but by no means all.
>
> And as previously demonstrated--by you!--IBM is not the go-to for cloud.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:18 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I don’t mind having my pictures or music in the AWS or AZURE cloud. But,
> I
> > don’t want my financial or health information there. IBM still processes
> > 90% of the credit card transactions. Red Hat acquisition will keep them
> the
> > go to cloud for highly sensitive information. It’s why banks, big
> retail, &
> > health care companies aren’t looking to get off the platform we all love.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 6:30 PM, Ron Wells <
> > 02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > CLOUD by any other name
> >
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of zMan
> > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2020 2:41 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
> >
> >
> > "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> > maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: HCL Internal
> > >
> > > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > > surface, this is a win-win.
> > >
> > > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> > >
> > > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you
> > > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a
> > > Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your
> > > Computer.]
> > >
> > > Anyone know any more about this?
> > >
> > >
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> > > reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-ibm-divestiture%2Fibm-to-break-up-109-year-
> > > old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZdata=02%7C01%7C
> > > Ron.Wells%40OMF.COM%7Cd9f08b923f4d4950db8308d86bc23335%7C57c0053cb5f84
> > > a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C1%7C637377829109678388sdata=5CwaLgr2DUk
> > > Jw%2FvCXctklNS6h%2BXyNa0ojq1pZRip8K8%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> > > prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth
> > > -strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructur
> > > e-services-unit-301148458.htmldata=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%
> > > 7Cd9f08b923f4d4950db8308d86bc23335%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%
> > > 7C0%7C1%7C637377829109678388sdata=eQoih0SoGl6gRMYa%2BNUDf4dZe8fF0
> > > lAhJACRZNPqf%2FU%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> > > --
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > > 
> > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) a

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-09 Thread Wayne Bickerdike

Perhaps IBM are prepping to sell off Global Services.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 8:08 PM David Cole  wrote:

> So what happened? Did IBM buy Red Hat and then Red Hat swallowed up IBM?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10/8/2020 04:18 PM, Knutson, Samuel wrote:
> >You can read the press release, view the charts and listen the
> >webcast where this was rolled out to Wall Street analysts this morning
> here
> >
> >https://www.ibm.com/investor/events/ibm-strategic-update-2020
> >
> >
> >
> >The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee
> >only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you
> >are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy
> >or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in
> >error please notify us immediately and then destroy it
> >
> >--
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>
> --
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>


-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

I’ve studied them extensively. I’m an investor. So I really don’t need the 
lecture but I understand that’s what the frequent posters here need to do. 
Large enterprises aren’t building on AZURE & AWS. Lots of smaller companies 
are. Because of the costs. AZURE & AWS are on the way to commoditization. 
Because it’s easy to replicate. In fact, AZURE growth is beginning to slow. 
Even with the government contract.
https://venturebeat.com/2020/07/31/probeat-slowing-aws-microsoft-azure-and-google-cloud-revenue-growth-is-a-good-thing/amp/

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 6:38 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 
<031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies 
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds. IBM is 
enterprise.

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
  and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then 
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another 26% 
of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson < 
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |    |
>
>    |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats 
>compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the 
>leading cloud  providers.
>  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure, 
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help 
> > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> surface,
> > this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall 
> > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you 
> > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be 
> > a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise 
> > your Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
--

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in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-09 Thread Charles Mills

After all, Amazon, which ain't chicken feed, presumably runs on AWS.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 3:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies 
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds. IBM is 
enterprise.

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
  and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then 
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another 26% 
of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson < 
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  ||
>
>|
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats 
>compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the 
>leading cloud  providers.
>  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure, 
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help 
> > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> surface,
> > this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall 
> > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you 
> > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be 
> > a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise 
> > your Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-09 Thread Farley, Peter x23353

Don't believe whoever told you that about AWS.  There are real companies 
building real enterprise-level applications on AWS today.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 7:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds. IBM is 
enterprise.

On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!bkn5Ica_-GSgVSVMQhoO-ZwjnqBMD632lXyTKAVvTtc_OWH8fyBG3CcIrbtSWqbpWZCJsA$
  and lists the top 5 vendors, comprising more than half the market, and then 
notes that the next ten players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another 26% 
of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson < 
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |    |
>
>    |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats 
>compared  to explain the different cloud services and identify the 
>leading cloud  providers.
>  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure, 
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help 
> > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> surface,
> > this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall 
> > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you 
> > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be 
> > a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise 
> > your Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
--

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-09 Thread Ron Wells

Just more dragging Mainframe DOWN to the lower levels of OS's

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 11:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

As usual, The Register is fairly informative:

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2020%2F10%2F08%2Fibm_splits_off_services_division%2Fdata=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7C21c6e08db21f44760c8608d86c72d808%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C1%7C637378587789244679sdata=KZ2xDi234RYteoD%2FiXVqCVErMx%2Fs7Ap5%2BlhaYPJBtYw%3Dreserved=0

As I read this, if you're with IBM Outsourcing you job is headed off to NewCo; 
for the rest of us nothing much changes.

Unfortunately I don't see much hope of an increased or distraction-free focus 
on Z; instead Z becomes even more of a footnote to Red Hat and cloud. (Just my 
reading of things; I don't really know any more than anyone else.)

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Dave Jousma
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM splitting into two companies

Anyone know any more about this?

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-ibm-divestiture%2Fibm-to-break-up-109-year-old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZdata=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7C21c6e08db21f44760c8608d86c72d808%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C1%7C637378587789244679sdata=1%2Btli2Z%2BLzGwBYIWQBVGl%2BSnjrr3dY%2F4lPHSCGFmTzA%3Dreserved=0

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth-strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructure-services-unit-301148458.htmldata=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7C21c6e08db21f44760c8608d86c72d808%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C1%7C637378587789244679sdata=u186DODEKY5A9NfYiHXeTYo5i%2FnD%2BawLLbz081ElfZg%3Dreserved=0

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-09 Thread Charles Mills

As usual, The Register is fairly informative:

https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/08/ibm_splits_off_services_division/ 

As I read this, if you're with IBM Outsourcing you job is headed off to NewCo; 
for the rest of us nothing much changes.

Unfortunately I don't see much hope of an increased or distraction-free focus 
on Z; instead Z becomes even more of a footnote to Red Hat and cloud. (Just my 
reading of things; I don't really know any more than anyone else.)

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Dave Jousma
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 8:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM splitting into two companies

Anyone know any more about this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ibm-divestiture/ibm-to-break-up-109-year-old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZ

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth-strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructure-services-unit-301148458.html

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Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2020-10-09 Thread Seymour J Metz

what is z/TPF, chopped liver?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
zMan 
Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most processors
are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
platforms.

Some of the brands (AmEx, Visa) use a fair bit of mainframe hardware, but
they're not processors. And some issuers use z/OS, but by no means all.

And as previously demonstrated--by you!--IBM is not the go-to for cloud.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:18 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I don’t mind having my pictures or music in the AWS or AZURE cloud. But, I
> don’t want my financial or health information there. IBM still processes
> 90% of the credit card transactions. Red Hat acquisition will keep them the
> go to cloud for highly sensitive information. It’s why banks, big retail, &
> health care companies aren’t looking to get off the platform we all love.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 6:30 PM, Ron Wells <
> 02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> CLOUD by any other name
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of zMan
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2020 2:41 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface, this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you
> > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a
> > Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your
> > Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
> >
> >
> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> > reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-ibm-divestiture%2Fibm-to-break-up-109-year-
> > old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZdata=02%7C01%7C
> > Ron.Wells%40OMF.COM%7Cd9f08b923f4d4950db8308d86bc23335%7C57c0053cb5f84
> > a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C1%7C637377829109678388sdata=5CwaLgr2DUk
> > Jw%2FvCXctklNS6h%2BXyNa0ojq1pZRip8K8%3Dreserved=0
> >
> >
> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> > prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth
> > -strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructur
> > e-services-unit-301148458.htmldata=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%
> > 7Cd9f08b923f4d4950db8308d86bc23335%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%
> > 7C0%7C1%7C637377829109678388sdata=eQoih0SoGl6gRMYa%2BNUDf4dZe8fF0
> > lAhJACRZNPqf%2FU%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > 
> > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
> > intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or
> > may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with
> > or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability
> > on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any,
> > presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not
> > necessarily reflect the view

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Why Do Mainframes Matter Today?

>From SHARE’s perspective, mainframes are an indispensable asset for businesses 
>of all kinds. Here are just a few stats to back it up:
   
   - Mainframes host critical core IT for: 92 of the world’s top 100 banks; 23 
of the 25 top airlines; 10 of the world’s top 10 insurers; and 71 percent of 
Fortune 500 companies.
   - Mainframes run 30 billion transactions per day, hold 80 percent of the 
world’s business data and handle 90 percent of all credit card transactions.
   - Mainframes host more transactions daily than Google (1.3 million/second on 
CICS vs. 68,542/second on Google), including 55 percent of all enterprise 
transactions.
   - Mainframes consume only 6.2 percent of worldwide IT spend. Yet, they run 
68 percent of production workloads and an estimated 220Bn lines of code, with 
the highest levels of security and reliability.

It’s hard to imagine a world without mainframes. Critical IT systems in so many 
industries simply couldn’t function the same without them. Stay tuned to this 
series, as we dive into more ways that mainframes matter today.




https://www.share.org/blog/mainframe-matters-how-mainframes-keep-the-financial-industry-up-and-running
 









Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/ and lists the top 5 vendors,
comprising more than half the market, and then notes that the next ten
players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another 26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |    |
>
>    |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats compared
> to explain the different cloud services and identify the leading cloud
> providers.
>  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help the
> > "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> surface,
> > this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall APPLE,
> > AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust
> > the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing
> > email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
> >
> >
> >
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-ibm-divestiture%2Fibm-to-break-up-109-year-old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZ=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C9a630f6e28694a836b8908d86ba10956%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637377686692839710=moQ%2FtN5NyAFdoaHs7Ggk0fvvQiCegg8KzxjTCe%2FaBmQ%3D=0
> >
> >
> >
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth-strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructure-services-unit-301148458.html=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C9a630f6e28694a836b8908d86ba10956%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637377686692839710=nAv%2FMxw5DvgpWrS%2FT2LB%2B%2FiytrH%2Bw9kchPMdHyymUUU%3D=0
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email
> > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > 
> > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
> intercepted,
> > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> > viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> > referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the
> originator
> > or HCL or its affiliates. Views or

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

2 completely different markets. AZURE & AWS are consumer market clouds. IBM is 
enterprise.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 5:28 AM, zMan  wrote:

Actually, Bill, it's pretty clear that you didn't read the report. It's at
https://kinsta.com/blog/cloud-market-share/ and lists the top 5 vendors,
comprising more than half the market, and then notes that the next ten
players--of whom IBM is one--"account for another 26% of the SaaS market".
So IBM has a couple of percent; as I said, that's a joke. Not a major
player.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Anyone who says IBM cloud is a joke isn’t well informed.
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |    |
>
>    |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Cloud Market Share – a Look at the Cloud Ecosystem in 2020
>
> Deep dive into the Cloud Market Share with tons of data and stats compared
> to explain the different cloud services and identify the leading cloud
> providers.
>  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 3:41 PM, zMan 
> wrote:
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help the
> > "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> surface,
> > this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall APPLE,
> > AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> > Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust
> > the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing
> > email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
> >
> >
> >
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-ibm-divestiture%2Fibm-to-break-up-109-year-old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZ=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C9a630f6e28694a836b8908d86ba10956%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637377686692839710=moQ%2FtN5NyAFdoaHs7Ggk0fvvQiCegg8KzxjTCe%2FaBmQ%3D=0
> >
> >
> >
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth-strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructure-services-unit-301148458.html=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C9a630f6e28694a836b8908d86ba10956%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637377686692839710=nAv%2FMxw5DvgpWrS%2FT2LB%2B%2FiytrH%2Bw9kchPMdHyymUUU%3D=0
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email
> > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > 
> > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
> intercepted,
> > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> > viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> > referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the
> originator
> > or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> > email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> > views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> > dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> > publication of this message without the prior written consent of
> authorized
> > representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before
> > opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and
> > other defects.
> > 
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO

Re: IBM splitting into two companies

Maybe it’s 89% now. 
https://www.share.org/blog/mainframe-matters-how-mainframes-keep-the-financial-industry-up-and-running
 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 9, 2020, 4:23 AM, zMan  wrote:

Nope, IBM doesn't process 90% of credit card transactions. Most processors
are on distributed, with a lot of HPE NonStop in the mix, but also other
platforms.

Some of the brands (AmEx, Visa) use a fair bit of mainframe hardware, but
they're not processors. And some issuers use z/OS, but by no means all.

And as previously demonstrated--by you!--IBM is not the go-to for cloud.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:18 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I don’t mind having my pictures or music in the AWS or AZURE cloud. But, I
> don’t want my financial or health information there. IBM still processes
> 90% of the credit card transactions. Red Hat acquisition will keep them the
> go to cloud for highly sensitive information. It’s why banks, big retail, &
> health care companies aren’t looking to get off the platform we all love.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 6:30 PM, Ron Wells <
> 02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> CLOUD by any other name
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of zMan
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2020 2:41 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM splitting into two companies
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> "IBM cloud" is a joke. When anyone talks about cloud, it's AWS, Azure,
> maybe GCP. NEVER EVER ONCE IBM.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 12:24 PM Allan Staller 
> wrote:
>
> > Classification: HCL Internal
> >
> > Don't know anything about this directly, but It actually might help
> > the "traditional" portfolio by allowing more focus.
> > The cloud portion can benefit from reduced bureaucracy, so on the
> > surface, this is a win-win.
> >
> > OTOH, how many cloud providers have been hacked to date. I recall
> > APPLE, AMAZON and I think one more.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Dave Jousma
> > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:44 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: IBM splitting into two companies
> >
> > [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you
> > trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a
> > Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your
> > Computer.]
> >
> > Anyone know any more about this?
> >
> >
> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> > reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-ibm-divestiture%2Fibm-to-break-up-109-year-
> > old-company-to-focus-on-cloud-growth-idUSKBN26T1TZdata=02%7C01%7C
> > Ron.Wells%40OMF.COM%7Cd9f08b923f4d4950db8308d86bc23335%7C57c0053cb5f84
> > a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C1%7C637377829109678388sdata=5CwaLgr2DUk
> > Jw%2FvCXctklNS6h%2BXyNa0ojq1pZRip8K8%3Dreserved=0
> >
> >
> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> > prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fibm-to-accelerate-hybrid-cloud-growth
> > -strategy-and-execute-spin-off-of-market-leading-managed-infrastructur
> > e-services-unit-301148458.htmldata=02%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%
> > 7Cd9f08b923f4d4950db8308d86bc23335%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%
> > 7C0%7C1%7C637377829109678388sdata=eQoih0SoGl6gRMYa%2BNUDf4dZe8fF0
> > lAhJACRZNPqf%2FU%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > --
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Re: IBM splitting into two companies