subject:"Re\: Linux"

Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-20 Thread Timothy Sipples

Ed Jaffe wrote:
>Linux uses disks with a fixed-block architecture. The lowest-level
>I/O driver in zCX maps these blocks one-for-one to ultra-high-
>performing z/OS-owned and managed VSAM linear data sets that
>implement the latest I/O enhancements such as zHyperLinks,
>pervasive encryption, replication/HyperSwap, etc.

NFS (Network File System) also works if you wish, as I recall.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE


E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-20 Thread Ed Jaffe


On 8/20/2019 2:51 AM, David Crayford wrote:

On 2019-08-20 12:48 AM, Ed Jaffe wrote:

zCX virtualizes its embedded Linux for Z instance using SIE as well...



I'm curious about how I/O is virtualized? If I install ELK into a zCX 
container will it use a zFS file system for the Elastic data base?


Linux uses disks with a fixed-block architecture. The lowest-level I/O 
driver in zCX maps these blocks one-for-one to ultra-high-performing 
z/OS-owned and managed VSAM linear data sets that implement the latest 
I/O enhancements such as zHyperLinks, pervasive encryption, 
replication/HyperSwap, etc.



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Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-20 Thread David Crayford


On 2019-08-20 12:48 AM, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 8/19/2019 7:40 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
Lots of possibilities for what one can do.  Something to bear in mind 
its a “virtualized” guest so I/O performance will be less than native 
zLinux performance.  I haven’t seen any good data on the actual 
differences in performance but that would be interesting.


Linux on Z typically runs under z/VM which virtualizes guests using an 
extremely high-performing IBM Z hardware virtualization feature called 
START INTERPRETIVE EXECUTION (or SIE). This hardware feature results 
in extremely low (but of course not zero) performance degradation when 
compared to native LPAR.


zCX virtualizes its embedded Linux for Z instance using SIE as well...




I'm curious about how I/O is virtualized? If I install ELK into a zCX 
container will it use a zFS file system for the Elastic data base?


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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Mauri Kanter

Hi:

It was always difficult for me to find materials about SIE ...

A nice source of data I found was the Linux Kernel sources, because of KVM ... 

It is nice to see for example how the instructions starting with a B2 opcode 
are intercepted  It is good to understand how the job is actually done ...

Mauri

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Ed Jaffe


On 8/19/2019 7:40 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

Lots of possibilities for what one can do.  Something to bear in mind its a 
“virtualized” guest so I/O performance will be less than native zLinux 
performance.  I haven’t seen any good data on the actual differences in 
performance but that would be interesting.


Linux on Z typically runs under z/VM which virtualizes guests using an 
extremely high-performing IBM Z hardware virtualization feature called 
START INTERPRETIVE EXECUTION (or SIE). This hardware feature results in 
extremely low (but of course not zero) performance degradation when 
compared to native LPAR.


zCX virtualizes its embedded Linux for Z instance using SIE as well...


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Seymour J Metz

What about licensing issues?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Peter 
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 7:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

Cool so we can run oracle on top of it ?

On Mon, 19 Aug, 2019, 2:57 PM Mike Shorkend, 
wrote:

> zCX workloads are ZIIP eligible. No IFLs involved.
>
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 10:11, Jake Anderson 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > How are the Linux workload are going to be handled within zOS, will there
> > be a IFL to offload only Linux workload from zOS ? As getting into
> general
> > CP is going to squeeze the performance in general.
> >
> > Jake.
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Jul, 2019, 1:54 PM Mark Hiscock, 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this
> > > episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1j6QSyUu3SiJ8X_sQK4cjW6C36OAD24_-PAi4nrlpfo3ktD0-mKeuS50CPJgQRkXwft7wW9N0J50uynF3lS0pG-53ztKIL5X6AF81m6nkmw5X9ys3gQeZnwOmNH2A6hLGDToM_oDOz-czYvNtZqqUpG2DM_jMMguRKZOsOQA8_qBsmBc6U1LLJyx4PjXSZeqBfoITZ9pIm0scY8q-Bo5ZQZ1cyB-_p2Bk5DpjcYeCn9a4fOr3WsIzU8pccNIiza2aLL-XBZgjgvP7bD_4pgnBx1R96a-LicRetDYlCX1qRk8euuPeDgHu7snvoN8uknH9MMuMO9Hm9miO8LRMUeXB8zUvqzYlerZL2AEYanMsvxE40NWOX3mtnwmbs41oZ0B_/http%3A%2F%2Fterminaltalk.net%2FPodcastGenerator%2F%3Fname%3Dgary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3
> > >
> > >
> > > Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out
> > > previous topics if you haven't heard any before.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > >
> > > Mark
> > > ---
> > > Mark Hiscock
> > > z/OS Connect
> > > Phone: (+44)1962 818662
> > > Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:   John McKown 
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
> > > Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
> > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <
> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson <
> justmainfra...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > Just curious about 2.4 ?
> > > >
> > > > Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over
> > the
> > > > linux on zVM ?
> > > >
> > > > This is just a question out of curiosity.
> > > >
> > > > Jake
> > > > \
> > >
> > >
> > > People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
> > > documented here:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/11Xfaf_oIP3k09pJMcmjmKtlHDOMxZdvbVSwD5uGwDldtTlU20JLpZgomNncHouvDaxXwxpMOSgGM90lLS_E1kzcsV26eizbTfa1ZUhp7TT8Grwutf-GrpO-0lBHL7JPaTWz0SEIfW6efoaq_e8DrFCf3UqG1-AuaaePNiE8aoMTHWKzAaOe-YLAcLvPpEqYOeDRumoLX5_Y0VU1OrrNQlmIjSlM3FMr3OQPmVUAMcNhqB6SQIP27pnmBurH0Admc-Ivx0_r1YaM96bYas1nxuJtv1HkBNMTcyWPIcsdIvc3VYXKLfMc7GdK6zKgcnak_H2Brf6LZV-RNu4yVXMG1SfoorCKksr_uo0UlTRmPH_gPzxGoDFUnW8bVLHtb4deT/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibm.com%2Fsupport%2Fknowledgecenter%2FSSLTBW_2.4.0%2Fcom.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100%2Fizso100_introduction.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the
> blackboard.
> > > -- Prof. Steiner
> > >
> > > Maranatha! <><
> > > John McKown
> > >
> > > --
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> number
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> > &

Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Matt Hogstrom

Lots of possibilities for what one can do.  Something to bear in mind its a 
“virtualized” guest so I/O performance will be less than native zLinux 
performance.  I haven’t seen any good data on the actual differences in 
performance but that would be interesting.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook <https://facebook.com/matt.hogstrom>  LinkedIn 
<https://linkedin/in/mhogstrom>  Twitter <https://twitter.com/hogstrom>

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom

> On Aug 19, 2019, at 7:06 AM, Peter  wrote:
> 
> Cool so we can run oracle on top of it ?
> 
> On Mon, 19 Aug, 2019, 2:57 PM Mike Shorkend, 
> wrote:
> 
>> zCX workloads are ZIIP eligible. No IFLs involved.
>> 
>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 10:11, Jake Anderson 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> How are the Linux workload are going to be handled within zOS, will there
>>> be a IFL to offload only Linux workload from zOS ? As getting into
>> general
>>> CP is going to squeeze the performance in general.
>>> 
>>> Jake.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 29 Jul, 2019, 1:54 PM Mark Hiscock, 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this
>>>> episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://terminaltalk.net/PodcastGenerator/?name=gary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out
>>>> previous topics if you haven't heard any before.
>>>> 
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> ---
>>>> Mark Hiscock
>>>> z/OS Connect
>>>> Phone: (+44)1962 818662
>>>> Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
>>>> ---
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From:   John McKown 
>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>>> Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
>>>> Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
>>>> Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <
>> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson <
>> justmainfra...@gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just curious about 2.4 ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over
>>> the
>>>>> linux on zVM ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is just a question out of curiosity.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jake
>>>>> \
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
>>>> documented here:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the
>> blackboard.
>>>> -- Prof. Steiner
>>>> 
>>>> Maranatha! <><
>>>> John McKown
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Unless stated otherwise above:
>>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with
>> number
>>>> 741598.
>>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
>>> 3AU
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mike Shorkend
>> m...@shorkend.com
>> www.shorkend.com
>> Tel: +972524208743
>> Fax: +97239772196
>> 
>> --
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> 
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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Mike Shorkend

I doubt it. You would need to get your hands on an Oracle container(do they
even exist?)  compiled on Linux for z.

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 14:06, Peter  wrote:

> Cool so we can run oracle on top of it ?
>
> On Mon, 19 Aug, 2019, 2:57 PM Mike Shorkend, 
> wrote:
>
> > zCX workloads are ZIIP eligible. No IFLs involved.
> >
> > On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 10:11, Jake Anderson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > How are the Linux workload are going to be handled within zOS, will
> there
> > > be a IFL to offload only Linux workload from zOS ? As getting into
> > general
> > > CP is going to squeeze the performance in general.
> > >
> > > Jake.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 29 Jul, 2019, 1:54 PM Mark Hiscock, 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this
> > > > episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://terminaltalk.net/PodcastGenerator/?name=gary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out
> > > > previous topics if you haven't heard any before.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > > -------
> > > > Mark Hiscock
> > > > z/OS Connect
> > > > Phone: (+44)1962 818662
> > > > Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From:   John McKown 
> > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > > Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
> > > > Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
> > > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <
> > IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson <
> > justmainfra...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > Just curious about 2.4 ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage
> over
> > > the
> > > > > linux on zVM ?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is just a question out of curiosity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jake
> > > > > \
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
> > > > documented here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the
> > blackboard.
> > > > -- Prof. Steiner
> > > >
> > > > Maranatha! <><
> > > > John McKown
> > > >
> > > >
> --
> > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
> IBM-MAIN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > > > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with
> > number
> > > > 741598.
> > > > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire
> PO6
> > > 3AU
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> --
> > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> IBM-MAIN
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> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mike Shorkend
> > m...@shorkend.com
> > www.shorkend.com
> > Tel: +972524208743
> > Fax: +97239772196
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> >
>
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-- 
Mike Shorkend
m...@shorkend.com
www.shorkend.com
Tel: +972524208743
Fax: +97239772196

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Peter

Cool so we can run oracle on top of it ?

On Mon, 19 Aug, 2019, 2:57 PM Mike Shorkend, 
wrote:

> zCX workloads are ZIIP eligible. No IFLs involved.
>
> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 10:11, Jake Anderson 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > How are the Linux workload are going to be handled within zOS, will there
> > be a IFL to offload only Linux workload from zOS ? As getting into
> general
> > CP is going to squeeze the performance in general.
> >
> > Jake.
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Jul, 2019, 1:54 PM Mark Hiscock, 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this
> > > episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://terminaltalk.net/PodcastGenerator/?name=gary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3
> > >
> > >
> > > Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out
> > > previous topics if you haven't heard any before.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > >
> > > Mark
> > > ---
> > > Mark Hiscock
> > > z/OS Connect
> > > Phone: (+44)1962 818662
> > > Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
> > > ---
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:   John McKown 
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
> > > Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
> > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <
> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson <
> justmainfra...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > Just curious about 2.4 ?
> > > >
> > > > Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over
> > the
> > > > linux on zVM ?
> > > >
> > > > This is just a question out of curiosity.
> > > >
> > > > Jake
> > > > \
> > >
> > >
> > > People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
> > > documented here:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the
> blackboard.
> > > -- Prof. Steiner
> > >
> > > Maranatha! <><
> > > John McKown
> > >
> > > --
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with
> number
> > > 741598.
> > > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
> > 3AU
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
> --
> Mike Shorkend
> m...@shorkend.com
> www.shorkend.com
> Tel: +972524208743
> Fax: +97239772196
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Mike Shorkend

zCX workloads are ZIIP eligible. No IFLs involved.

On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 10:11, Jake Anderson 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> How are the Linux workload are going to be handled within zOS, will there
> be a IFL to offload only Linux workload from zOS ? As getting into general
> CP is going to squeeze the performance in general.
>
> Jake.
>
> On Mon, 29 Jul, 2019, 1:54 PM Mark Hiscock, 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this
> > episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:
> >
> >
> >
> http://terminaltalk.net/PodcastGenerator/?name=gary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3
> >
> >
> > Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out
> > previous topics if you haven't heard any before.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> >
> > Mark
> > ---
> > Mark Hiscock
> > z/OS Connect
> > Phone: (+44)1962 818662
> > Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
> > -------
> >
> >
> >
> > From:   John McKown 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
> > Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
> > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > Just curious about 2.4 ?
> > >
> > > Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over
> the
> > > linux on zVM ?
> > >
> > > This is just a question out of curiosity.
> > >
> > > Jake
> > > \
> >
> >
> > People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
> > documented here:
> >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm
> >
> >
> > --
> > A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the blackboard.
> > -- Prof. Steiner
> >
> > Maranatha! <><
> > John McKown
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> > 741598.
> > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
> 3AU
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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-- 
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m...@shorkend.com
www.shorkend.com
Tel: +972524208743
Fax: +97239772196

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-08-19 Thread Jake Anderson

Hi

How are the Linux workload are going to be handled within zOS, will there
be a IFL to offload only Linux workload from zOS ? As getting into general
CP is going to squeeze the performance in general.

Jake.

On Mon, 29 Jul, 2019, 1:54 PM Mark Hiscock,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this
> episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:
>
>
> http://terminaltalk.net/PodcastGenerator/?name=gary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3
>
>
> Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out
> previous topics if you haven't heard any before.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Mark
> ---
> Mark Hiscock
> z/OS Connect
> Phone: (+44)1962 818662
> Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
> ---
>
>
>
> From:   John McKown 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
> Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
> Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Just curious about 2.4 ?
> >
> > Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over the
> > linux on zVM ?
> >
> > This is just a question out of curiosity.
> >
> > Jake
> > \
>
>
> People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
> documented here:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm
>
>
> --
> A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the blackboard.
> -- Prof. Steiner
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> 741598.
> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-07-29 Thread Mark Hiscock

Hi all,

If you want to learn more about zCX then I just listened to this this 
episode of Terminal Talk which covers it really well:

http://terminaltalk.net/PodcastGenerator/?name=gary_puchkoff_-_z_os_container_extensions.mp3

Terminal Talk is an awesome podcast about the mainframe so check out 
previous topics if you haven't heard any before.

Kind Regards, 

Mark
---
Mark Hiscock
z/OS Connect 
Phone: (+44)1962 818662
Email: mark.hisc...@uk.ibm.com
---

From:   John McKown 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date:   25/07/2019 17:40
Subject:Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> Just curious about 2.4 ?
>
> Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over the
> linux on zVM ?
>
> This is just a question out of curiosity.
>
> Jake
> \

People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
documented here:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm

-- 
A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the blackboard.
-- Prof. Steiner

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-07-25 Thread John McKown

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:21 PM Jake Anderson 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> Just curious about 2.4 ?
>
> Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over the
> linux on zVM ?
>
> This is just a question out of curiosity.
>
> Jake
> \

People probably need to understand zCX and Docker. zCX appears to be
documented here:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.izso100/izso100_introduction.htm

-- 
A sine curve goes off to infinity, or at least the end of the blackboard.
-- Prof. Steiner

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-07-25 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:16:39 +, Martin Packer wrote:
>
>Three I can think of straightway:
>
>1) No Linux sysproging
>
I'd expect, rather, the Linux sysproging to be similar, but
no VM sysproging.
>2) WLM workload management

>3) Proximity to the data
>
Classic data sets, or zFS, or DB2, or other (specify).  And there remains
the EBCDIC nightmare.

Security/integrity concerns.  Will users be able to log on to Linux
with RACF credentials and access all their z/OS resources?  Classic
PDS serialization is cast in stone; NFS obeys ISPF's ENQ rules.

>I think it’s going to be VERY interesting ts see what architectures and
>operational regimes people come up with.


>> On  5 Jul 2019, at 11:22, Jake Anderson wrote:
>>
>> Just curious about 2.4 ?
>>
>> Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over the
>> linux on zVM ?

-- gil

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Re: Linux address space on z/OS 2.4

2019-07-25 Thread Martin Packer


Three I can think of straightway:

1) No Linux sysproging
2) WLM workload management
3) Proximity to the data

I think it’s going to be VERY interesting to see what architectures and
operational regimes people come up with.

Cheers, Martin

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Jul 2019, at 11:22, Jake Anderson  wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Just curious about 2.4 ?
>
> Running Linux as an address space in zOS will have an advantage over the
> linux on zVM ?
>
> This is just a question out of curiosity.
>
> Jake
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 
741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU


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Re: Linux

2018-06-01 Thread Dave Jones

I would also suggest subscribing to the z/VM list as well:
 The IBM z/VM Operating System discussion

This IBM z/VM Discussion list is an ideal place to ask a question of your VM 
peers. Subscribers include VM customers, vendors, consultants, and IBMers, 
including z/VM Developers. (The IBM z/VM Operating System discussion was 
formerly known as VMESA-L)

To subscribe, send a note to
ibmvm-subscribe-requ...@listserv.uark.edu

In the body of the note, write only the following line in which you have 
substituted your name.

SUBSCRIBE IBMVM firstname lastname

To correspond with the list itself (e.g post to the discussion), use
ib...@listserv.uark.edu

View and search the current list and archives back to January 1994 via this:
http://listserv.uark.edu/archives/ibmvm.html 

DJ

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:35:23 -0500, John McKown  
wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:33 AM Nai, Dean  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>Member here but was wondering if anyone knows if they have a forum like
>> this for Linux issuesthanks
>>
>
>Yes, LINUX-390
>
>http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390
>
>You can subscribe at the _bottom_ of the page.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Dean Nai
>>
>
>-- 
>Once a government places vague notions of public safety and security above
>the preservation of freedom, a general loss of liberty is sure to follow.
>
>GCS Griffin -- Pelaran Alliance -- TFS Guardian (book)
>
>
>Maranatha! <><
>John McKown
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Linux

2018-06-01 Thread Nai, Dean


Thanks John








On 6/1/18, 12:35 PM, "IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of John McKown" 
 wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:33 AM Nai, Dean  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>Member here but was wondering if anyone knows if they have a forum like
>> this for Linux issuesthanks
>>
>
>Yes, LINUX-390
>
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www2.marist.edu_htbin_wlvindex-3Flinux-2D390=DwIFaQ=vYl7KJMDeuM7F-Nqf_hfailBifPmyspo7hrJGlNN7nU=Jrkg6Kqkg1RuQHbN9OpjcGoj051_POke_QQnGwsdEE8=I-TgxfofelmKd3qvZbRpEOz4zQztZC_PtXxlzataPqQ=OMqI1zisPDWu5VldvKIVQ_AMIkM0PRQ8T94tNA8kccM=
>
>You can subscribe at the _bottom_ of the page.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Dean Nai
>>
>
>-- 
>Once a government places vague notions of public safety and security above
>the preservation of freedom, a general loss of liberty is sure to follow.
>
>GCS Griffin -- Pelaran Alliance -- TFS Guardian (book)
>
>
>Maranatha! <><
>John McKown
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Linux

2018-06-01 Thread John McKown

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:33 AM Nai, Dean  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>Member here but was wondering if anyone knows if they have a forum like
> this for Linux issuesthanks
>

Yes, LINUX-390

http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?linux-390

You can subscribe at the _bottom_ of the page.



>
>
> Dean Nai
>

-- 
Once a government places vague notions of public safety and security above
the preservation of freedom, a general loss of liberty is sure to follow.

GCS Griffin -- Pelaran Alliance -- TFS Guardian (book)


Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

2018-02-12 Thread Timothy Sipples

David Boyes wrote:
>2. Make sure you have at least 2 physical engines in the LPAR
>you intend to use Linux on, and at least 2 virtual CPUs in your
>VMs.

If you cannot meet this "rule of thumb" advice then one IFL should still be
OK provided you make sure SMT2 is enabled on that IFL. SMT2 was introduced
with the IBM z13 processor.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE,
Multi-Geography
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

2018-02-12 Thread Wolfgang Fritz


Hi
z/VM is an old concept.
The most of my customer don't like like to handle z/VM.
They have already functional sysprogrammers on RHEL7.x with x86 systems.
for all this guys it's really simple to switch on a z/Linux native or 
with KVM.

I think that will be the future on z/systems.

Wolfgang




Am 12.02.2018 um 14:54 schrieb Allan Staller:

I have been thru the IBM Linux on Z workshop and as part  of that, a Linux 
install was performed (under z/VM).
The Linux install (Red Hat?) portion was quite simple and excellently packaged.

That being said, Linux on bare metal (as opposed to z/VM) is, IMO, of very 
limited use.
Most of the advantages of Linux on Z occur under z/VM. (server stand-up, WLM 
performance,...)

Al

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Munif Sadek
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

Finally we are getting an IFL from IBM on trial  to install Linux on our z13. 
No KVM or zVM on the Mainframe. I am looking for any redbooks or IBM 
installation document for Linux on zSeries. I am inclined towards  Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux AS 7 as I expect it to be better integrated with APACHE SPARK.
Hopefully IBM zLinux document can give me comparative studies of different 
Linux distribution available on zSeries.

seeking expert advise , experience,   gotchas, ROTs.

Regards
Munif

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Re: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

2018-02-12 Thread Allan Staller

I have been thru the IBM Linux on Z workshop and as part  of that, a Linux 
install was performed (under z/VM).
The Linux install (Red Hat?) portion was quite simple and excellently packaged.

That being said, Linux on bare metal (as opposed to z/VM) is, IMO, of very 
limited use.
Most of the advantages of Linux on Z occur under z/VM. (server stand-up, WLM 
performance,...)

Al

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Munif Sadek
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

Finally we are getting an IFL from IBM on trial  to install Linux on our z13. 
No KVM or zVM on the Mainframe. I am looking for any redbooks or IBM 
installation document for Linux on zSeries. I am inclined towards  Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux AS 7 as I expect it to be better integrated with APACHE SPARK.
Hopefully IBM zLinux document can give me comparative studies of different 
Linux distribution available on zSeries.

seeking expert advise , experience,   gotchas, ROTs.

Regards
Munif

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Re: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

2018-02-12 Thread Wolfgang Fritz


HI
I am just working on a PoC for RHEL7.x with native LPAR and KVM Host 
with RHEL7.5 guests.


two things are different
1. use fdasd if you have dasds on your system or fdisk if you are 
working with disks.
2. Networkdevices are OSA,s and you have to define 3 address min. on 
OSA5 type. There are special commands for check and change the OSA Devices.

3. with RHEL 7.5 there is a beta Version for s390x(64bit) it includes KVM.

I use my RHEL7.5 Versions for demo 90 days

Wolfgang

Am 12.02.2018 um 13:38 schrieb Edgington, Jerry:

Munif,

The downloads are available from Red Hat, but not sure if you need to have a 
contract or not with Red Hat to get access to the downloads.  However, the 
architecture is s390x and since you don't have KVM or zVM, then the 
installation is a little more difficult because you will have to load Red Hat 
from the HMC or a FTP server that is accessible from the HMC.   But, the actual 
installation is pretty straight forward if you have installed Red Hat on 
another platform.  Other difficulty would be access either DASD or Disk, DASD 
being count key data and Disk being SAN disk.  Not sure, which one is actually 
available to Linux running on bare metal and the same with the networking 
components.  I know with z/VM, the virtual switch and layer 2 switching works 
the best with multiple Linux servers.

The Red Hat manual steps you through the installation of Red Hat on z/VM, but 
not sure about native LPARs.

Ubuntu has a web page showing how to install Ubuntu as a Linux LPAR.  So, I 
would assume installation of Red Hat would be very similar.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/S390X/Installation%20In%20LPAR

Jerry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Munif Sadek
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 7:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

Finally we are getting an IFL from IBM on trial  to install Linux on our z13. 
No KVM or zVM on the Mainframe. I am looking for any redbooks or IBM 
installation document for Linux on zSeries. I am inclined towards  Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux AS 7 as I expect it to be better integrated with APACHE SPARK.
Hopefully IBM zLinux document can give me comparative studies of different 
Linux distribution available on zSeries.

seeking expert advise , experience,   gotchas, ROTs.

Regards
Munif

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Re: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

2018-02-12 Thread Edgington, Jerry

Munif,

The downloads are available from Red Hat, but not sure if you need to have a 
contract or not with Red Hat to get access to the downloads.  However, the 
architecture is s390x and since you don't have KVM or zVM, then the 
installation is a little more difficult because you will have to load Red Hat 
from the HMC or a FTP server that is accessible from the HMC.   But, the actual 
installation is pretty straight forward if you have installed Red Hat on 
another platform.  Other difficulty would be access either DASD or Disk, DASD 
being count key data and Disk being SAN disk.  Not sure, which one is actually 
available to Linux running on bare metal and the same with the networking 
components.  I know with z/VM, the virtual switch and layer 2 switching works 
the best with multiple Linux servers.

The Red Hat manual steps you through the installation of Red Hat on z/VM, but 
not sure about native LPARs.

Ubuntu has a web page showing how to install Ubuntu as a Linux LPAR.  So, I 
would assume installation of Red Hat would be very similar.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/S390X/Installation%20In%20LPAR

Jerry

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Munif Sadek
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 7:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

Finally we are getting an IFL from IBM on trial  to install Linux on our z13. 
No KVM or zVM on the Mainframe. I am looking for any redbooks or IBM 
installation document for Linux on zSeries. I am inclined towards  Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux AS 7 as I expect it to be better integrated with APACHE SPARK.
Hopefully IBM zLinux document can give me comparative studies of different 
Linux distribution available on zSeries.

seeking expert advise , experience,   gotchas, ROTs.

Regards
Munif

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Re: Linux (zLinux) on zSeries

2018-02-11 Thread Dave Jones

Hello, Munif.

First, welcome to the z/Linux community. A very good place top post such 
questions as yours is the "Linux on 390 Port " 
listserv. Instructions on how to subscribe to it or browse the archives can be 
found here:
http://www.vm.ibm.com/techinfo/listserv.html

Since you are interested in running Red Hat, the RedHat 7, installation 
instructions for installing it in an LPAR on z are in a chapter of this 
document:

https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/installation_guide/index

It has the step by step process you need to follow, and, of course, if you have 
any questions about something that's not clear, you can  ask on the LINUX-290 
list. Folks there are always willing to help out a newbie.

Good luck.
DJ

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Re: Linux Copying z/OS Volumes Using Raw-Track Access Mode?

2017-03-16 Thread Timothy Sipples

Of course I'm aware of DFSMSdss. Hint: z/OS DFSMSdss supports a certain
range of devices, and so does Linux on z. The list of supported devices
varies a bit.

Offline replies are also appreciated if preferred. Thanks.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Linux Copying z/OS Volumes Using Raw-Track Access Mode?

2017-03-16 Thread Gord Tomlin


On 2017-03-16 05:34, Timothy Sipples wrote:

A few years ago (2013) Linux started supporting "raw-track access mode" to
ECKD DASD, beginning with Linux kernel Version 3.11. Eberhard Pasch briefly
describes raw-track access mode here:

http://linuxmain.blogspot.sg/2013/11/raw-eckd-access-from-zlinux.html

I'm wondering if anybody uses raw-track access mode to copy and backup z/OS
volumes, including startable volumes, and what your experiences are. Please
note that the z/OS volume(s) should be offline (to z/OS) before accessing
them from Linux. Nonetheless, raw-track access mode seems like an
interesting way to use Linux on z for certain z/OS-related maintenance
tasks, especially for development and testing. Raw-track access mode also
applies to the other operating systems that can use ECKD volumes (z/VM,
z/VSE, z/TPF).


I think this approach has a couple of disadvantages versus DFDSS (or 
equivalent) backups:


1. The z/OS volume should be offline to [all instances of] z/OS.
   This is often not feasible.

2. If needed, an individual data set can be restored from a DFDSS full
   volume backup. A Linux raw-track backup will need to be restored in
   its entirety (requiring an additional volume) in order to get at
   a copy of the individual data set.

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Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507

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Re: Linux Copying z/OS Volumes Using Raw-Track Access Mode?

2017-03-16 Thread R.S.


W dniu 2017-03-16 o 10:34, Timothy Sipples pisze:

A few years ago (2013) Linux started supporting "raw-track access mode" to
ECKD DASD, beginning with Linux kernel Version 3.11. Eberhard Pasch briefly
describes raw-track access mode here:

http://linuxmain.blogspot.sg/2013/11/raw-eckd-access-from-zlinux.html

I'm wondering if anybody uses raw-track access mode to copy and backup z/OS
volumes, including startable volumes, and what your experiences are. Please
note that the z/OS volume(s) should be offline (to z/OS) before accessing
them from Linux. Nonetheless, raw-track access mode seems like an
interesting way to use Linux on z for certain z/OS-related maintenance
tasks, especially for development and testing. Raw-track access mode also
applies to the other operating systems that can use ECKD volumes (z/VM,
z/VSE, z/TPF).


Well, maybe you know z/OS can also copy the volumes using "raw track 
access mode". AFAIK this feature is older than Linux.
Of course, I can use Linux to copy z/OS volumes, or z/VM to copy Linux 
(and z/OS) volumes, but I see no reason for that.
BTW: in many cases I can use DASD box features to do the job, so 
operating system is only one of the ways to issue command.



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Re: Linux-only machine and I/O configuration

2016-09-05 Thread Feller, Paul

Why you couldn't still do the "stand alone" IOCDS text file built under z/OS 
for the box.  That is how I do any IODF changes for our external CF box.

Thanks..

Paul Feller
AGT Mainframe Technical Support

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 04:04
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Linux-only machine and I/O configuration

As a z/OS user I manage I/O configuration using HCD. IOCDS is created 
from IODF using text file (for the first time on new CPC) or directly 
using internal communication to SE.

Question: How can I manage I/O in Linux-only environment?
Do I have to code IOCP text file?

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Re: Linux-only machine and I/O configuration

2016-09-05 Thread Michel Beaulieu

Hello, 

I believe that the best option you have is to use the stand alone version of 
IOCP. 

Please review this manual:
z Systems Stand-Alone Input/Output Configuration Program User's Guide
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg21f69a3011d310dfb85257de700541a30
Publication No.:  SB10-7166

I hope this helps!

Michel Beaulieu
IBM Canada, Strategic Outsourcing
/* My opinions expressed here, do not engage my employer in any way */

> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 06:45:16 -0700
> From: stars...@mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: Linux-only machine and I/O configuration
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> If you are interested, there is a Linux List as well that might be helpful.
> 
> To join, if you have not done so, 
> 
> Linux http://www2.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-VM
> Go to the bottom of the webpage to join.
> 
> 
> Lizette
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> > Behalf Of R.S.
> > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 2:04 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Linux-only machine and I/O configuration
> > 
> > As a z/OS user I manage I/O configuration using HCD. IOCDS is created from
> > IODF using text file (for the first time on new CPC) or directly using
> > internal communication to SE.
> > 
> > Question: How can I manage I/O in Linux-only environment?
> > Do I have to code IOCP text file?
> > 
> > --
> > Radoslaw Skorupka
> > Lodz, Poland
> 
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Re: Linux and C++

2016-04-05 Thread Mark Post

>>> On 4/4/2016 at 10:16 PM, "Jack J. Woehr"  wrote: 
> Linux comes with GCC, the best compiler in the world.

Dear ${DEITY}, hardly.  Intel's are much better.  Now if you had said "best no 
cost compiler" I wouldn't have nearly so bad a reaction.

Mark Post

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Re: Linux and C++

2016-04-04 Thread David Crayford


On 5/04/2016 10:51 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

David Crayford wrote:


Some good free ones are Code::Blocks, Atom, Eclipse CDT, NetBeans, 
CodeLite. 
JEdit and the built-in editors in NetBeans and Eclipse are top notch. 
Really, for C++, probably Eclipse CDT is unmatched.




Have you tried Atom? It's C++ support is very good indeed, autocomplete 
is provided with a clang plugin. It's fast and the memory footprint is 
small. It's also in active development and has a large community working 
on it. Scripting is done in Javascript/Coffeescript and is easy. How is 
scripting done in Eclipse, Java?



FREE SOFTWARE ALL



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Re: Linux and C++

2016-04-04 Thread Jack J. Woehr


David Crayford wrote:


Some good free ones are Code::Blocks, Atom, Eclipse CDT, NetBeans, CodeLite. 

JEdit and the built-in editors in NetBeans and Eclipse are top notch. Really, 
for C++, probably Eclipse CDT is unmatched.

FREE SOFTWARE ALL

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www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Linux and C++

2016-04-04 Thread David Crayford

There are loads of editors on Linux that have good support for C++. The 
big question is are you willing to pay?


Some good free ones are Code::Blocks, Atom, Eclipse CDT, NetBeans, 
CodeLite.


If you have a spare $300 Slickedit is good. Sublime is cheap and a very 
good editor.


On 5/04/2016 9:58 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:

I'm afraid I'm going to start another active thread.
  
I own Visual Studio 13 that has a C++ compiler in it.


If I want to move AWAY from Visual Studio 13.  I have already decided to use
SUSE Enterprise 64.

Which IDE that has an imbedded compiler would any of you suggest to use?

Steve

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Re: Linux and C++

2016-04-04 Thread David Crayford


On 5/04/2016 10:16 AM, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

Steve Beaver wrote:

  I have already decided to use
SUSE Enterprise 64.

Which IDE that has an imbedded compiler would any of you suggest to use?




Linux comes with GCC, the best compiler in the world. The various 
IDE's that run on Linux support GCC projects and write your makefiles 
and everything.




I prefer clang. Especially for C++.

I recommend NetBeans. Other will prefer Eclipse. Both are open source 
software and free to download.


Leave WinHeck for Open Source and thumb your nose at embedded compilers.



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Re: Linux and C++

2016-04-04 Thread Jack J. Woehr


Steve Beaver wrote:

  I have already decided to use
SUSE Enterprise 64.

Which IDE that has an imbedded compiler would any of you suggest to use?




Linux comes with GCC, the best compiler in the world. The various IDE's that run on Linux support GCC projects and write 
your makefiles and everything.


I recommend NetBeans. Other will prefer Eclipse. Both are open source software 
and free to download.

Leave WinHeck for Open Source and thumb your nose at embedded compilers.

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Re: Linux

2016-03-30 Thread David Crayford

One thing I did notice about the Unix message queue implementation on 
z/OS is that it's not the fastest as a message bus between threads using 
IPC_PRIVATE. I was quite shocked at the difference when compared
to a C++ BlockingQueue class I nabbed from boost. Exactly the same 
throughput. The boost implementation just uses pthread condition 
variables which under the covers use USS latches


Unix message queue: 12976 messages per/sec
Boost message queue: 107417 messages per/sec

107417 / 12976 = 8.27

That's over 8 times faster! I'm wondering if it's because in the C++ 
code the data is in userspace and in the Unix message queue it's data 
spaces managed by the kernel. The Unix message queue is serialized using 
PLO instructions

so I expected it to be much faster.

Here's the code. Maybe I've done something wrong.

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

#pragma runopts(posix(on))

volatile int quit = 0;

void catcher( int signum )
{
quit = 1;
}

struct my_msgbuf
{
long mtype;
char mtext[1024];
};

void * consumer( void * p )
{
int msqid = ( int )p;
for (;;)
{
struct my_msgbuf buf = { 0 };
if ( msgrcv( msqid, , sizeof(buf), 0, 0 ) == 0 )
{
perror( "msgrcv" );
exit( 1 );
}
}
return NULL;
}

int main( int argc, char ** argv )
{
struct my_msgbuf buf = { 0 };
int msqid;

msqid = msgget( IPC_PRIVATE, S_IWUSR | S_IRUSR | IPC_PLO1 );
if ( msqid == 0 )
{
perror( "msgget" );
exit( 8 );
}

struct msqid_ds msgqds;
msgctl( msqid, IPC_STAT,  );

buf.mtype = 1; // we don't really care in this case

// create a signal handler to catch the alarm
struct sigaction sact;
sigemptyset( _mask );
sact.sa_flags = 0;
sact.sa_handler = catcher;
sigaction( SIGALRM, , NULL );

// create the threads
size_t threads = 1; // only use one thrad in this test
pthread_t tid[threads];
for ( int i = 0; i < threads; i++ )
{
int rc = pthread_create( [i], NULL, consumer, (void * )msqid );
if ( rc != 0 )
{
perror( "pthread_create" );
exit( 8 );
}
}

// timer will pop in 1 seconds
alarm( 1 );

unsigned int n = 0;
while ( !quit && n < 50 )
{
if ( msgsnd( msqid, (struct msgbuf * ), sizeof(buf), 0 ) == 
-1 )

{
perror( "msgsnd" );
exit( 8 );
}
n++;
}

printf( "MSGQ: %d messages per sec\n", n );

return 0;
}

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

#include 

#pragma runopts(posix(on))

/**
 * Blocking queue.
 *
 * A bounded circular buffer that uses a monitor to synchronize
 * access to the queue.
 */
template 
class BlockingQueue : private boost::noncopyable {
public:
  typedef boost::mutex::scoped_lock scoped_lock;

  /**
   * Contructs a blocking queue of n elements.
   *
   * @param n the size of the queue
   */
  BlockingQueue(int n )
: m_begin(0),
  m_end(0),
  m_buffered(0),
  m_circularBuffer(n)
  {
  }

  /**
   * Puts an item onto the queue. If the queue is full, the thread is
   * blocked until notified by the receiver that the queue is ready
   * for data.
   *
   * @param item the element to add to the queue
   */
  void send( T item )
  {
scoped_lock lock( m_monitor );

// block until the queue is not full
while ( m_buffered == m_circularBuffer.size() ) {
  m_bufferNotFull.wait( lock );
}

// put the item at the end of the queue
m_circularBuffer[m_end] = item;

// calculate the end-of-queue index
m_end = (m_end + 1) % m_circularBuffer.size();

++m_buffered;

// notify the receiver
m_bufferNotEmpty.notify_one();
  }

  /**
   * Returns the item at the top of the queue. If the queue is empty
   * the thread is blocked until notifed by the sender that the queue
   * has data.
   *
   * @return the item at the top of the queue.
   */
  T receive()
  {
scoped_lock lock( m_monitor );

// block until the queue is not empty
while ( m_buffered == 0 ) {
  m_bufferNotEmpty.wait( lock );
}

// get the element at the top of the queue
T item = m_circularBuffer[m_begin];

// calculate the top of queue index
m_begin = (m_begin + 1) % m_circularBuffer.size();

--m_buffered;

// notify the sender
m_bufferNotFull.notify_one();

return item;
  }

private:
  /** the container for the circular buffer */
  std::vector m_circularBuffer;

  /** The index to the top of the queue */
  int m_begin;

  /** the index to the bottom of the queue  */
  int m_end;

  /** the number of items in the queue */
  int m_buffered;

  /** the monitor mutex */
  boost::mutex m_monitor;

  /** the condition varaible to notify buffer not full conditions */
  boost::condition m_bufferNotFull;

  /** the condition variable to

Re: Linux

2016-03-30 Thread Scott Ford

David and John,

I agree, I like IBM's implementation, what experience I have had so far
with it.
Being an ex-VMer, its comfortable and easy to use ..but not everyone has
that experience, per se.

Scott

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:27 AM, David Crayford  wrote:

> On 30/03/2016 8:22 PM, John McKown wrote:
>
>> Simpler, easier to use API. No need to create a file system object and
>>> >ftok a token, you can just use a namespace with mq_open() and features
>>> that
>>> >don't exist
>>> >in System V such as mq_notify() spring to mind. In in nutshell it's a
>>> >better design. Having said that the System V message queues are better
>>> than
>>> >nothing and you
>>> >don't have to be authorized to use them which is goodness.
>>>
>> An. I see what you're getting at. It wasn't, as I had thought, that
>> message queues are bad because they are SYSV, but that IBM should have
>> implemented the POSIX version of message queues instead of the SYSV
>> version. Too much gaming on my part lately. It rots the brain.
>>
>
> In fact the z/OS implementation is decent. You can use select() and poll()
> which you can't on some other Unixes. I suppose
> POSIX message queues are quite new and IBM implemented the System V
> version because they were part of the standard at that time.
>
>
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Re: Linux

2016-03-30 Thread David Crayford

On 30/03/2016 8:22 PM, John McKown wrote:

Simpler, easier to use API. No need to create a file system object and
>ftok a token, you can just use a namespace with mq_open() and features that
>don't exist
>in System V such as mq_notify() spring to mind. In in nutshell it's a
>better design. Having said that the System V message queues are better than
>nothing and you
>don't have to be authorized to use them which is goodness.

An. I see what you're getting at. It wasn't, as I had thought, that
message queues are bad because they are SYSV, but that IBM should have
implemented the POSIX version of message queues instead of the SYSV
version. Too much gaming on my part lately. It rots the brain.

In fact the z/OS implementation is decent. You can use select() and 
poll() which you can't on some other Unixes. I suppose
POSIX message queues are quite new and IBM implemented the System V 
version because they were part of the standard at that time.

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Re: Linux

2016-03-30 Thread Jon Butler

Ah, WATFORused it on an IBM 1800 with 32 Kilobytes of memory in 1975.
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Re: Linux

2016-03-30 Thread John McKown

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 8:44 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

> On 30/03/2016 9:15 AM, John McKown wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:36 PM, David Crayford 
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 29 Mar 2016, at 11:59 PM, Paul Gilmartin <

>>> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
 On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:02 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
> Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?
>
 Relentlessly, but an outdated POSIX.  No "cd -P" nor "pwd -L" e.g.

 If only the message queues were POSIX and not those horrible System V!
>>>
>>>
>>> I gotta ask. Why would it make any difference for the same
>> functionality,
>> message queues, to be POSIX instead of SYSV? Unless you've got some sort
>> of
>> "POSIX only" rule from some manager.
>>
>>
> Simpler, easier to use API. No need to create a file system object and
> ftok a token, you can just use a namespace with mq_open() and features that
> don't exist
> in System V such as mq_notify() spring to mind. In in nutshell it's a
> better design. Having said that the System V message queues are better than
> nothing and you
> don't have to be authorized to use them which is goodness.


An. I see what you're getting at. It wasn't, as I had thought, that
message queues are bad because they are SYSV, but that IBM should have
implemented the POSIX version of message queues instead of the SYSV
version. Too much gaming on my part lately. It rots the brain.

-- 
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One to hold the
giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Chris Hoelscher

> 
> A big ty, Waterloo eh, that's interesting , they at one time had their own (
> Univ. of Waterloo ) compilers..

Ahh yes, watfor, watfiv, watbol and others - bacjk in the 1970s when I was an 
undergrad at Ohio State University (the THE was not present back then) - the 
waterloo compilers were used for student fortran and cobol classes ...
The nicest thing, they guessed at your misspellings - usually correctly 

Chris Hoelscher
Technology Architect, Database Infrastructure Services
Technology Solution Services
: humana.com
123 East Main Street
Louisville, KY 40202
Humana.com
(502) 714-8615, (502) 476-2538

> 
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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Charles Mills

WATFOR! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WATFIV 

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 6:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

Charles,

A big ty, Waterloo eh, that's interesting , they at one time had their own ( 
Univ. of Waterloo ) compilers..

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread David Crayford


On 30/03/2016 9:15 AM, John McKown wrote:

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:36 PM, David Crayford  wrote:


On 29 Mar 2016, at 11:59 PM, Paul Gilmartin <

000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:02 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:

Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?

Relentlessly, but an outdated POSIX.  No "cd -P" nor "pwd -L" e.g.


If only the message queues were POSIX and not those horrible System V!



I gotta ask. Why would it make any difference for the same functionality,
message queues, to be POSIX instead of SYSV? Unless you've got some sort of
"POSIX only" rule from some manager.



Simpler, easier to use API. No need to create a file system object and 
ftok a token, you can just use a namespace with mq_open() and features 
that don't exist
in System V such as mq_notify() spring to mind. In in nutshell it's a 
better design. Having said that the System V message queues are better 
than nothing and you

don't have to be authorized to use them which is goodness.

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Scott Ford

Charles,

A big ty, Waterloo eh, that's interesting , they at one time had their own
( Univ. of Waterloo ) compilers..

Scott

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016, John McKown 
wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:36 PM, David Crayford  > wrote:
>
> > > On 29 Mar 2016, at 11:59 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
> > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:02 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?
> > > Relentlessly, but an outdated POSIX.  No "cd -P" nor "pwd -L" e.g.
> > >
> >
> > If only the message queues were POSIX and not those horrible System V!
> >
> >
> I gotta ask. Why would it make any difference for the same functionality,
> message queues, to be POSIX instead of SYSV? Unless you've got some sort of
> "POSIX only" rule from some manager.
>
>
> --
> How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One to hold the
> giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools.
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread John McKown

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:36 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

> > On 29 Mar 2016, at 11:59 PM, Paul Gilmartin <
> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:02 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> >>
> >> Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?
> > Relentlessly, but an outdated POSIX.  No "cd -P" nor "pwd -L" e.g.
> >
>
> If only the message queues were POSIX and not those horrible System V!
>
>
I gotta ask. Why would it make any difference for the same functionality,
message queues, to be POSIX instead of SYSV? Unless you've got some sort of
"POSIX only" rule from some manager.


-- 
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One to hold the
giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread David Crayford

> On 29 Mar 2016, at 11:59 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
> <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:02 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>> 
>> Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?
> Relentlessly, but an outdated POSIX.  No "cd -P" nor "pwd -L" e.g.
> 

If only the message queues were POSIX and not those horrible System V!


>> Did IBM write it or was it 'kinda ported' ?
> I suspect both.  IIRC seeing a Mortice Kern credit in the MOTD.  And I
> suspect they carefully avoided GPL entanglement.
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Vince Coen

Posix comparability is in most of Linux and Unix code these days - and
has been for many years.

On 29/03/16 17:49, Charles Mills wrote:
> >From the z/OS UNIX manuals:
>
> "InterOpen Shell and Utilities is a source code product providing POSIX.2 
> (Shell
> and Utilities) functions to the z/OS UNIX services offered with MVS.
> InterOpen/POSIX Shell and Utilities is developed and licensed by Mortice Kern
> Systems (MKS) Inc. of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada."
>
> Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:30 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Linux
>
> Guys:
>
> Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?
>
> Did IBM write it or was it 'kinda ported' ?
>

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Jesse 1 Robinson

There was quite a bit of hoopla at the time z/OS OMVS came out. It was indeed 
POSIX certified. There were also acerbic observations that because IBM was 
entering the fray as a newbie, they had no baggage to clutter their landscape 
such as other vendors--including themselves in the AIX arena--had to overcome 
in achieving certification. I questioned some Beemers a while back about POSIX. 
They were pretty sure that certification had expired. 

.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 9:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Linux

From the z/OS UNIX manuals:

"InterOpen Shell and Utilities is a source code product providing POSIX.2 
(Shell and Utilities) functions to the z/OS UNIX services offered with MVS.
InterOpen/POSIX Shell and Utilities is developed and licensed by Mortice Kern 
Systems (MKS) Inc. of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada."

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

Guys:

Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?

Did IBM write it or was it 'kinda ported' ?


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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Charles Mills

>From the z/OS UNIX manuals:

"InterOpen Shell and Utilities is a source code product providing POSIX.2 (Shell
and Utilities) functions to the z/OS UNIX services offered with MVS.
InterOpen/POSIX Shell and Utilities is developed and licensed by Mortice Kern
Systems (MKS) Inc. of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada."

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

Guys:

Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?

Did IBM write it or was it 'kinda ported' ?

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:02 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
>Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?
>
Relentlessly, but an outdated POSIX.  No "cd -P" nor "pwd -L" e.g.

>Did IBM write it or was it 'kinda ported' ?
> 
I suspect both.  IIRC seeing a Mortice Kern credit in the MOTD.  And I
suspect they carefully avoided GPL entanglement.

-- gil

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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread Scott Ford

Guys:

Isnt iBM's Unix System Services based on Posix ?

Did IBM write it or was it 'kinda ported' ?

Scott

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:54 AM, David L. Craig  wrote:

> On 16Mar28:2239-0500, Tom Marchant wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:35:44 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:
> >
> > >On 03/26/16 14:45, Tom Marchant wrote:
> > >> First of all, it is GNU/Linux.
> > >> That is, it is the GNU operating system with a Linux kernel.
> > >> See http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html
> > >> It is a distinction that many ignore and many others are tired of
> hearing, ...
> > >
> > >Including moi. Stop it. It's religious.
> > >
> > >Stallman's Free Software Foundation is a pillar in the FLOSS world. But
> > >if the freedom they have fought for means anything, then other groups
> > >also should get credit. So the real name of the system would be
> > >Linux/GNU/*BSD/SourceForce/github/IBM/HPE/Oracle/onandonandonandon.
> > >
> > >Stallman's insistence on snagging credit for Linux runs counter to his
> > >supposed altruism.
> >
> > "Supposed altruism?" I don't know that he is altruistic. He has worked
> hard in
> > support of software freedom. Indeed, that was the reason he started the
> GNU
> > project. It is also the reason he wrote the GNU General Public License
> (GPL).
> > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/initial-announcement.html
> >
> > Richard Stallman does not "Insist on snagging credit for Linux". Indeed,
> he
> > explicitly says that Linus Torvalds should get credit for his important
> contribution
> > to the system.
> > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#justgnu
> >
> > However, Linus did not write an operating system. The GNU project did.
> Mr.
> > Stallman does believe that it is important that people understand the
> reasons
> > for the development of the GNU operating system.
> > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
> >
> > You want me to stop telling people that the GNU operating system is an
> important
> > part of what they call "Linux". I will not stop. I happen to agree with
> RMS about this.
> > I have not asked anyone to stop calling it "Linux", but I do point out
> that there is
> > much more to it than the kernel, Linux.
> > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#divide
> >
> > There is another popular operating system that uses Linux for its
> kernel. Android
> > is very different from the GNU operating system,but they use the same
> kernel.
> > That kernel is the part of the GNU.Linux system that is properly called
> Linux.
> > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxsyswithoutgnu
>
> I agree with Tom on this, Rick.  Long ago I observed that Linux'; i.e.,
> the kernel's
> portability is in fact gcc's portability, and in these days of llvm it's
> still very true.
> I do not begrudge RMS his position in most contexts "Linux" should be
> "GNU/Linux"--his
> efforts are in many ways much more significant than Linus' to all we hold
> dear and our
> respect for that is well-earned.
> --
> 
> May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!
>
> Dave_Craig__
> "So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
>  You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
>  Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
> __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_
>
> --
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Re: Linux

2016-03-29 Thread David L. Craig

On 16Mar28:2239-0500, Tom Marchant wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:35:44 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:
> 
> >On 03/26/16 14:45, Tom Marchant wrote:
> >> First of all, it is GNU/Linux.
> >> That is, it is the GNU operating system with a Linux kernel.
> >> See http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html
> >> It is a distinction that many ignore and many others are tired of hearing, 
> >> ...
> >
> >Including moi. Stop it. It's religious.
> >
> >Stallman's Free Software Foundation is a pillar in the FLOSS world. But
> >if the freedom they have fought for means anything, then other groups
> >also should get credit. So the real name of the system would be
> >Linux/GNU/*BSD/SourceForce/github/IBM/HPE/Oracle/onandonandonandon.
> >
> >Stallman's insistence on snagging credit for Linux runs counter to his
> >supposed altruism.
> 
> "Supposed altruism?" I don't know that he is altruistic. He has worked hard 
> in 
> support of software freedom. Indeed, that was the reason he started the GNU 
> project. It is also the reason he wrote the GNU General Public License (GPL). 
> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/initial-announcement.html 
> 
> Richard Stallman does not "Insist on snagging credit for Linux". Indeed, he 
> explicitly says that Linus Torvalds should get credit for his important 
> contribution 
> to the system. 
> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#justgnu 
> 
> However, Linus did not write an operating system. The GNU project did. Mr. 
> Stallman does believe that it is important that people understand the reasons 
> for the development of the GNU operating system. 
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html 
> 
> You want me to stop telling people that the GNU operating system is an 
> important 
> part of what they call "Linux". I will not stop. I happen to agree with RMS 
> about this. 
> I have not asked anyone to stop calling it "Linux", but I do point out that 
> there is 
> much more to it than the kernel, Linux. 
> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#divide 
> 
> There is another popular operating system that uses Linux for its kernel. 
> Android 
> is very different from the GNU operating system,but they use the same kernel. 
> That kernel is the part of the GNU.Linux system that is properly called 
> Linux. 
> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxsyswithoutgnu 

I agree with Tom on this, Rick.  Long ago I observed that Linux'; i.e., the 
kernel's
portability is in fact gcc's portability, and in these days of llvm it's still 
very true.
I do not begrudge RMS his position in most contexts "Linux" should be 
"GNU/Linux"--his
efforts are in many ways much more significant than Linus' to all we hold dear 
and our
respect for that is well-earned.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread David Crayford


On 29/03/2016 11:26 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:01:07 +0800, David Crayford wrote:

Slickedit has full ISPF emulation mode and runs on Linux. It's not free
though! The standard version is $149, professional is $299. ...


I believe Slick has its IDE.  We don't use much beyond its diff because
we're committed to a competitor.

I find Slick on Solaris way slow; marginally usable on a fast LAN; unusable
via VPN.  I think it's X11 overhead; feels as if it paints the screen pixel-by-
pixel.


Yes, I remember you mentioning that before. IIRC, the same could be said 
for the z/OS X11, which Slickedit dropped. It's way to easy to use SMB 
or NFS and run Slickedit on Windows/Mac/Linux. I edited an 8 GB binary 
file,
scrolled to the bottom. Turned hex mode on, made and edit and saved the 
file in a matter of seconds. Try that in Eclipse and the lights will dim!



How do you get to its ISPF emulation?  Some of my colleages would
treasure that.


Tools->Options->Keyboard and Mouse->Emulation->ISPF


To me "full ISPF emulation" means macros in Rexx.  No?  Which Rexx?


The scripting language is the proprietary SlickC which is a hybrid of 
REXX, C and Smalltalk for the OO. It has a parse instruction and 
implementes most of the REXX string handling functions. Slickedit has a 
command line which is why I
love it so much. You can bind any keys to commands which gives you 
serious productivity as opposed to the clunky mouse.




-- gil

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Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread Tom Marchant

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:35:44 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:

>On 03/26/16 14:45, Tom Marchant wrote:
>> First of all, it is GNU/Linux.
>> That is, it is the GNU operating system with a Linux kernel.
>> See http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html
>> It is a distinction that many ignore and many others are tired of hearing, 
>> ...
>
>Including moi. Stop it. It's religious.
>
>Stallman's Free Software Foundation is a pillar in the FLOSS world. But
>if the freedom they have fought for means anything, then other groups
>also should get credit. So the real name of the system would be
>Linux/GNU/*BSD/SourceForce/github/IBM/HPE/Oracle/onandonandonandon.
>
>Stallman's insistence on snagging credit for Linux runs counter to his
>supposed altruism.

"Supposed altruism?" I don't know that he is altruistic. He has worked hard in 
support of software freedom. Indeed, that was the reason he started the GNU 
project. It is also the reason he wrote the GNU General Public License (GPL). 
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/initial-announcement.html 

Richard Stallman does not "Insist on snagging credit for Linux". Indeed, he 
explicitly says that Linus Torvalds should get credit for his important 
contribution 
to the system. 
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#justgnu 

However, Linus did not write an operating system. The GNU project did. Mr. 
Stallman does believe that it is important that people understand the reasons 
for the development of the GNU operating system. 
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html 

You want me to stop telling people that the GNU operating system is an 
important 
part of what they call "Linux". I will not stop. I happen to agree with RMS 
about this. 
I have not asked anyone to stop calling it "Linux", but I do point out that 
there is 
much more to it than the kernel, Linux. 
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#divide 

There is another popular operating system that uses Linux for its kernel. 
Android 
is very different from the GNU operating system,but they use the same kernel. 
That kernel is the part of the GNU.Linux system that is properly called Linux. 
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxsyswithoutgnu 

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:01:07 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>
>Slickedit has full ISPF emulation mode and runs on Linux. It's not free
>though! The standard version is $149, professional is $299. ...
> 
I believe Slick has its IDE.  We don't use much beyond its diff because
we're committed to a competitor.

I find Slick on Solaris way slow; marginally usable on a fast LAN; unusable
via VPN.  I think it's X11 overhead; feels as if it paints the screen pixel-by-
pixel.

How do you get to its ISPF emulation?  Some of my colleages would
treasure that.

To me "full ISPF emulation" means macros in Rexx.  No?  Which Rexx?

-- gil

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Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread David Crayford


On 28/03/2016 10:35 PM, Rick Troth wrote:

Wow ... you started a hot topic, Steve. Fun stuff!


On 03/26/16 11:59, Steve Beaver wrote:

First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
  My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as 
needed port

it to zSeries box.   ...


Two popular flavors of REXX: Regina and OORexx. I use *Regina*. It is 
a sibling to THE (The Hessling Editor), which is as close to ISPF as 
you're likely to get. (Personally more of a fan of XEDIT, and have a 
compatible THE/XEDIT profile.) But REXX on Linux or any Unix or on 
Windows is a lot different from REXX on TSO or MVS or CMS.




Some people are really fond of IDEs. You might have a hard time 
finding an IDE in Linux land that gives you a full ISPF feel. Like Tom 
said, use the editor of your choice, use the compiler, and use 'make'. 
GCC is most well known. David Crayford mentioned 'clang' which is 
pretty slick and gaining in popularity, but not as broadly ported yet. 
(There's also Dignus Systems C, but might not serve what it sounds 
like you're looking for.) Where possible, "compilers are compilers"; 
avoid compiler features which lock you in. And don't get me started 
about source code manglers. Keep it simple. No matter what I or anyone 
else on this list tells you: KEEP IT SIMPLE.



Slickedit has full ISPF emulation mode and runs on Linux. It's not free 
though! The standard version is $149, professional is $299. That's a big 
ask when you've got some very good free programmers editors out there. 
Githubs Atom is the most popular with the hipster hackers in our office. 
I had a look

and it ticks all the boxes and today's kids like scripting in JavaScript.




-I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 
Tb of

Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
Part.

Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I 
Know

SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?


So maybe you *do* have a bit of interest in Linux as a desktop system. 
Cool!
Having started with Slackware and then bounced between SUSE and 
RedHat, I'm using *OpenSUSE* heavily these days. (TL;DR) Devuan 
(that's not a typo) also has substantial value. And I must mention 
CentOS, even though it is a decendent of Redhat (now even fallen under 
RH umbrella). CentOS is quite popular in the enterprise.




I don't run Linux on the desktop anymore. I used to use Ubuntu on my 
home system but moved to a Macbook Air which gives me a platform to 
develop for all the platforms I'm interested in. With brew I have an 
identical toolkit to Linux for server side programming, Android Studio 
and of course xcode for Apple devices.


I run headless Linux VMs under VirtualBox and file system sharing allows 
me to use my favorite edit, Slickedit, on the host side. It's a great 
setup and I'm very happy with it. The distros are CentOS, Ubuntu Server 
and openSUSE.


I certainly don't want to start a flame war but the OS X Yosemite UI is 
on a completely different level to any Linux GUI I've ever used :). TBH, 
Windows 10 isn't too bad either although I much prefer *nix systems. I 
use Windows at work and have exactly the same setup with VirtualBox etc.


Most Linux distros strongly support either GNOME or KDE. I find both 
of those unbearably "heavy" and have been using XFCE for several 
years. Heh ... then just last week I learned that *XFCE* is less 
encumbered by SystemD. (oopppsss... now I've gone and opened 
*that* can-o-worms!) Seriously, XFCE is lighter than the other two, 
and there are yet more window managers and desktop environments to 
choose from. Pick one and run with it, and know that it has little to 
do with your distro selection, per se.


My present desktop system is a decent home brew that I inherited from 
my son. He gave it up for a laptop for college and I needed a 
workstation. With OpenSUSE I get *KVM* and can run any X86 guest I 
need: Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Minix. (Even tried 
Plan 9 but didn't have time enough to run out that runway.) Sorry to 
stray a bit, seeing as how you didn't ask for virtualization.


Yes, Mark Post *is* being objective.


Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to 
develop in on

a Linux Platform?


In the Unix world, the religious war continues between the VI crowd 
and the EMACS crowd. Historically, VI established the first beachhead. 
Just sayin. I don't really care for either, but was told "learn VI" 
years ago, so I did, and that minimal knowledge has served me well.


I make a point to have *THE* on hand, though I find that I more often 
use Pico because it's quick. (The replacement for Pico is *Nano*, 
another GNU-ism but works.)


I see that Java was mentioned. I have it on good authority "nobody 
does Java on z/OS". 



One of our directors met customers in Germany recently, big banks etc. 
They were big users of WAS and obviously Java. Their system was made

Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread Scott Ford

All,

Been using Linux for a long time , It was fairly familiar since I am a
ex-VM system programmer and VSE system programmer. I still have a lot of
learning to do but enjoy OpenSuse,Redhat and Fedora. Those are my personal
favorites.
I know there are many more. The IDEs are always personal choice I feel. Not
a big VIM fan sorry guys.

Scott

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Rick Troth  wrote:

> Wow ... you started a hot topic, Steve. Fun stuff!
>
>
> On 03/26/16 11:59, Steve Beaver wrote:
>
>> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
>> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>>   My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed
>> port
>> it to zSeries box.   ...
>>
>
> Learning Linux is broad and vague.
> Sounds like you're less interested in (the learning of) Linux as a desktop
> environment.
> "Linux is Linux" (sort of), so if you already grok endian and word size
> issues, that's a big step. Do you know C?
>
> "Unix is Unix" (sort of, and less so than with Linux), so how well do you
> know USS?
> A lot of FLOSS packages got ported to USS before Linux was a serious force
> in the enterprise. Depending on the details of "goal is to learn Linux" you
> might also benefit from such things as CYGWIN or the MKS Toolkit. Both give
> you a Unix face on your Windoze system just like USS is a Unix face on MVS.
> The latter (MKS TK) is a core foundation of USS. Really. (Joe Bob sez,
> check it out.)
>
> Assembler will of course be different from HW to HW.
> I try to keep up with Linux on: S390, PPC, I386, and ARM. I also have
> SPARC and am on the hunt for MIPS. Assembler on each of these will be quite
> different, sometimes extremely so.
>
> Two popular flavors of REXX: Regina and OORexx. I use *Regina*. It is a
> sibling to THE (The Hessling Editor), which is as close to ISPF as you're
> likely to get. (Personally more of a fan of XEDIT, and have a compatible
> THE/XEDIT profile.) But REXX on Linux or any Unix or on Windows is a lot
> different from REXX on TSO or MVS or CMS.
>
> Some people are really fond of IDEs. You might have a hard time finding an
> IDE in Linux land that gives you a full ISPF feel. Like Tom said, use the
> editor of your choice, use the compiler, and use 'make'. GCC is most well
> known. David Crayford mentioned 'clang' which is pretty slick and gaining
> in popularity, but not as broadly ported yet. (There's also Dignus Systems
> C, but might not serve what it sounds like you're looking for.) Where
> possible, "compilers are compilers"; avoid compiler features which lock you
> in. And don't get me started about source code manglers. Keep it simple. No
> matter what I or anyone else on this list tells you: KEEP IT SIMPLE.
>
>
> -   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb
>> of
>> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>> Part.
>>
>> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
>> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>>
>
> So maybe you *do* have a bit of interest in Linux as a desktop system.
> Cool!
> Having started with Slackware and then bounced between SUSE and RedHat,
> I'm using *OpenSUSE* heavily these days. (TL;DR) Devuan (that's not a typo)
> also has substantial value. And I must mention CentOS, even though it is a
> decendent of Redhat (now even fallen under RH umbrella). CentOS is quite
> popular in the enterprise.
>
> Most Linux distros strongly support either GNOME or KDE. I find both of
> those unbearably "heavy" and have been using XFCE for several years. Heh
> ... then just last week I learned that *XFCE* is less encumbered by
> SystemD. (oopppsss... now I've gone and opened *that* can-o-worms!)
> Seriously, XFCE is lighter than the other two, and there are yet more
> window managers and desktop environments to choose from. Pick one and run
> with it, and know that it has little to do with your distro selection, per
> se.
>
> My present desktop system is a decent home brew that I inherited from my
> son. He gave it up for a laptop for college and I needed a workstation.
> With OpenSUSE I get *KVM* and can run any X86 guest I need: Windows, Linux,
> FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Minix. (Even tried Plan 9 but didn't have time
> enough to run out that runway.) Sorry to stray a bit, seeing as how you
> didn't ask for virtualization.
>
> Yes, Mark Post *is* being objective.
>
>
> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in
>> on
>> a Linux Platform?
>>
>
> In the Unix world, the religious war continues between the VI crowd and
> the EMACS crowd. Historically, VI established the first beachhead. Just
> sayin. I don't really care for either, but was told "learn VI" years ago,
> so I did, and that minimal knowledge has served me well.
>
> I make a point to have *THE* on hand, though I find that I more often use
> Pico because it's quick. (The replacement for Pico is *Nano*, another
> GNU-ism but works.)
>
> I

Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread Rick Troth


On 03/27/16 13:12, David L. Craig wrote:

Contact Rick Troth  about his source-based Linux distro
for several platforms including x86 and Z.  It is a build from scratch
exercise and that will teach you the rock-bottom basics.   ...


Thanks again for the shout out, David!

NORD is just a source build of the core packages used in most Linux 
systems: shell, awk, sed, grep, make, compiler, assembler, runtime 
library, various scripting languages. Totally non-graphical. (But I run 
X windows on it by stealing graphical packages from other distros. 
Works.) The rationale for the project was to have a close-to-source 
environment with minimal dependencies.


Related to all this is a battle against bloat.
By default, NORD starts the network and SSHD and nothing else.
I use it as a primary HTTP and DNS server, but security comes first. 
(The story gets long from here.)


If you have access to z/VM, you can probably get NORD running in half an 
hour. One EXEC and one Pipelines gem will get you going. You would need 
to know your way around "shell stuff", but otherwise it's really really 
simple.


For the PC port, I also snagged a bootable HD image a few months ago. 
Have been meaning to create a bootable ISO or USB, but as it's mostly a 
hobby thing, that little detail has fallen down in the backlog. 
(Building it is easy, even trivial. Packaging it is hard.)




However, you might find the
definitive Linux From Scratch (LFS) distro better as it is
primarily designed to teach people how to build a Linux system
from the source (it's been a long time since you could do that
with IBM's flagship OS).


True.
If you're after an education, LFS will do you better.

-- R; <><




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Re: Linux

2016-03-28 Thread Rick Troth


Wow ... you started a hot topic, Steve. Fun stuff!


On 03/26/16 11:59, Steve Beaver wrote:

First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
  
My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port

it to zSeries box.   ...


Learning Linux is broad and vague.
Sounds like you're less interested in (the learning of) Linux as a 
desktop environment.
"Linux is Linux" (sort of), so if you already grok endian and word size 
issues, that's a big step. Do you know C?


"Unix is Unix" (sort of, and less so than with Linux), so how well do 
you know USS?
A lot of FLOSS packages got ported to USS before Linux was a serious 
force in the enterprise. Depending on the details of "goal is to learn 
Linux" you might also benefit from such things as CYGWIN or the MKS 
Toolkit. Both give you a Unix face on your Windoze system just like USS 
is a Unix face on MVS. The latter (MKS TK) is a core foundation of USS. 
Really. (Joe Bob sez, check it out.)


Assembler will of course be different from HW to HW.
I try to keep up with Linux on: S390, PPC, I386, and ARM. I also have 
SPARC and am on the hunt for MIPS. Assembler on each of these will be 
quite different, sometimes extremely so.


Two popular flavors of REXX: Regina and OORexx. I use *Regina*. It is a 
sibling to THE (The Hessling Editor), which is as close to ISPF as 
you're likely to get. (Personally more of a fan of XEDIT, and have a 
compatible THE/XEDIT profile.) But REXX on Linux or any Unix or on 
Windows is a lot different from REXX on TSO or MVS or CMS.


Some people are really fond of IDEs. You might have a hard time finding 
an IDE in Linux land that gives you a full ISPF feel. Like Tom said, use 
the editor of your choice, use the compiler, and use 'make'. GCC is most 
well known. David Crayford mentioned 'clang' which is pretty slick and 
gaining in popularity, but not as broadly ported yet. (There's also 
Dignus Systems C, but might not serve what it sounds like you're looking 
for.) Where possible, "compilers are compilers"; avoid compiler features 
which lock you in. And don't get me started about source code manglers. 
Keep it simple. No matter what I or anyone else on this list tells you: 
KEEP IT SIMPLE.




-   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
Part.

Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?


So maybe you *do* have a bit of interest in Linux as a desktop system. 
Cool!
Having started with Slackware and then bounced between SUSE and RedHat, 
I'm using *OpenSUSE* heavily these days. (TL;DR) Devuan (that's not a 
typo) also has substantial value. And I must mention CentOS, even though 
it is a decendent of Redhat (now even fallen under RH umbrella). CentOS 
is quite popular in the enterprise.


Most Linux distros strongly support either GNOME or KDE. I find both of 
those unbearably "heavy" and have been using XFCE for several years. Heh 
... then just last week I learned that *XFCE* is less encumbered by 
SystemD. (oopppsss... now I've gone and opened *that* can-o-worms!) 
Seriously, XFCE is lighter than the other two, and there are yet more 
window managers and desktop environments to choose from. Pick one and 
run with it, and know that it has little to do with your distro 
selection, per se.


My present desktop system is a decent home brew that I inherited from my 
son. He gave it up for a laptop for college and I needed a workstation. 
With OpenSUSE I get *KVM* and can run any X86 guest I need: Windows, 
Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Minix. (Even tried Plan 9 but didn't 
have time enough to run out that runway.) Sorry to stray a bit, seeing 
as how you didn't ask for virtualization.


Yes, Mark Post *is* being objective.



Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
a Linux Platform?


In the Unix world, the religious war continues between the VI crowd and 
the EMACS crowd. Historically, VI established the first beachhead. Just 
sayin. I don't really care for either, but was told "learn VI" years 
ago, so I did, and that minimal knowledge has served me well.


I make a point to have *THE* on hand, though I find that I more often 
use Pico because it's quick. (The replacement for Pico is *Nano*, 
another GNU-ism but works.)


I see that Java was mentioned. I have it on good authority "nobody does 
Java on z/OS". Not meaning to start a flame war: yes it works, yes some 
people use it, yes in production, but the guy who said that was simply 
stating what he sees with his own customers. Perl works too. I would be 
interested to learn if Python has been ported to z/OS. Python is the new 
hotness in the Linux world. (For varying values of "new".)


/Summary/: for editors, _learn VI_, but also learn Pico/Nano. And know 
that THE is available. (Someone will probably chime in

Re: Linux

2016-03-27 Thread Paul Gilmartin

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:59:40 -0500, Steve Beaver wrote:

>First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
>writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>
>My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
>it to zSeries box.  That being said,
>
>-  I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
>Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy Part.
>
DVD/RW?  Why not USB flash?  And z/OS UNIX System Services?

>Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
>SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>
I'd purchase the least costly one.

>That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.
>
>= = = = = = = = = =
>
>Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
>a Linux Platform?
> 
You'll need a shell.  I counsel against the *csh shells; prefer POSIX or bash.
Shell; sed; awk; java; perl; python; C; ...  What's your objective?

Many.  Nedit, Jedit, ... they're much the same.  If you can configure NFS, you 
can
edit your UNIX (Linux) files with ISPF.  Some of my colleagues do that.  I go 
the
other way: mount witn NFS and edit my PDS(E) members with vi.  My tactile memory
of switching ISPF modes Command/Prefix/Overtype/Insert/Input is fading.

-- gil

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Re: Linux

2016-03-27 Thread David L. Craig

On 16Mar26:1059-0500, Steve Beaver wrote:

> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed. 
>  
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
> it to zSeries box.  That being said,
> 
> - I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>   Part.
> 
> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
> 
> That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.

Contact Rick Troth  about his source-based Linux distro for
several platforms including x86 and Z.  It is a build from scratch exercise and
that will teach you the rock-bottom basics.  However, you might find the
definitive Linux From Scratch (LFS) distro better as it is primarily designed
to teach people how to build a Linux system from the source (it's been a long
time since you could do that with IBM's flagship OS).

> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
> a Linux Platform?

It's one thing to learn language syntax.  UNIX is not MVS.  It's important
to understand the why's of UNIX programming.  Eric S. Raymond's masterpiece
"The Art of UNIX Programming" at http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/html/
will answer many, many questions, including the above.
-- 

May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly!

Dave_Craig__
"So the universe is not quite as you thought it was.
 You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then.
 Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe."
__--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread David Crayford


On 27/03/2016 3:01 AM, Mike Schwab wrote:

I agree with the C suggestion.
GCC is for Linux at https://gcc.gnu.org/
GCC is for MVS 3.8 - z/OS 2.2 is at http://gccmvs.sourceforge.net/
includes Hercules, MVS 3.8, GCC.



I've been using clang for C/C++ on Linux for the last year and I prefer 
it to gcc. For C++ the diagnostic messages are much better and IMO the 
toolchain is superior.



On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Steve Beaver  wrote:

First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.

My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
it to zSeries box.  That being said,

-   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
 Part.

Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?

That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.

= = = = = = = = = =

Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
a Linux Platform?

Thank you in advance




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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Charles Mills

If porting to z Linux, your only issues are likely to be hardware issues.
Don't assume endian-ness. Avoid unions of ints and chars.

union {
int foo;
char bar[4];
} IamDangerous;

If porting to z/OS, you have the same hardware issues plus the ASCII-EBCDIC
issue plus compiler and library differences. For a start, watch out for
programs that assume 'R'+1 == 'S' or 'A' > 'a' or '1'-48 == 1. But simple,
basic, middle-of-the-road C is completely portable.

#include 
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
printf("Hello, world!\n");
}

will compile and run pretty much identically in all three places. Four, if
you count z/OS batch and z/OS UNIX shell as two different places.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mark Post
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 4:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

>>> On 3/26/2016 at 11:59 AM, Steve Beaver <st...@stevebeaver.com> wrote: 
> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that 
> only writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>  
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed 
> port it to zSeries box.  That being said,

Just to be clear, when you talk about "port it to zSeries" do you mean z/OS,
or Linux running on z?  If the latter, then there won't be much, if any,
porting involved.  If the former, then that raises a whole raft of other
problems/questions.

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Mark Post

>>> On 3/26/2016 at 11:59 AM, Steve Beaver  wrote: 
> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed. 
>  
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
> it to zSeries box.  That being said,

Just to be clear, when you talk about "port it to zSeries" do you mean z/OS, or 
Linux running on z?  If the latter, then there won't be much, if any, porting 
involved.  If the former, then that raises a whole raft of other 
problems/questions.

> - I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>   Part.
> 
> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?

The answer to this greatly depends on your final target, z/OS or Linux on z.  
If the latter, then you probably want to go with SUSE since that has by far the 
largest share of the market on z as well as the most software certifications, 
etc.  (Yes, I work for SUSE but I try to be objective about things like this.)  
If the answer is z/OS, then as others have pointed out the choice of Linux is 
more of a matter of what your personal goals are regarding learning.  To me, if 
you want to learn Linux, really learn it, then go with Slackware.  You'll have 
little choice but to learn how things work since Patrick Volkerding's approach 
to Slackware is that system administrators don't need or want much hand 
holding.  You'll also find that a large number of people who have lots of 
experience in Linux started out with Slackware early on.

Other questions you need to answer are if you want to buy support for your 
Linux.  That will greatly limit your choices.  If you want something that's 
very easy to use and looks pretty, then various derivatives of Debian such as 
Ubuntu, Mint, etc. are good.  And on and on and on.  The list of things to 
consider can be very large.  The good thing is that you can try a bunch of 
various distributions with no monetary cost, just the time and effort you 
devote to downloading, installing and playing with them.  That's true even for 
Red Hat and SUSE.  The versions you can download are identical to what their 
paying subscribers get.  The difference is in support and maintenance.

Another thing to think about is finding a local Linux Users Group (LUG).  There 
are a lot of them out there and the people you meet there can be a big help.

Mark Post

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Tom Marchant

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:01:06 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote:

>I agree with the C suggestion.
>GCC is for Linux at https://gcc.gnu.org/

I think that you'll find that gcc is available with any distro. All of the 
distros have 
an associated software repository with  a large selection of optional software.

Your selection of languages may be limited more by what is available on MVS, 
since that seems to be the eventual target of your development.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Michel Beaulieu

Steve, 

Since the goal is to eventually port to zSeries, which compilers is available 
is important. 
In my experience, Not every z/OS shop have C compilers or applications. 

I believe that learning to develop with Eclipse  ( eclipse.org) 
would be a great asset. You can use eclipse to develop Java, C & C++, and many 
more languages.
Java is a safe bet, specially if you want to get into multi-thread 
applications. 
 
Likely overtime, you will need a source code management system, look into GIT.

As for Linux flavor, I consider three branches: 
a) the Suse family: OpenSuse is the no charge version
b) the RedHat family: Centos and Fedora are the free development versions
c) Ubuntu and Debian and some others. 

Consider installing REXX on your Linux machine. 
You may also look into  The Hessling Editor (THE) for a text editor.

My suggestions in a nutshell:
Linux Fedora (or Centos), eclipse, REXX, THE, develop in Java and C++. 

I hope this helps!

Michel Beaulieu
IBM Canada Strategic Outsourcing
/* The opinions expressed here are my own and do not engage my employer in any 
way */


> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:59:40 -0500
> From: st...@stevebeaver.com
> Subject: Linux
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed. 
>  
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
> it to zSeries box.  That being said,
> 
> - I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>   Part.
> 
> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
> 
> That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
> a Linux Platform?
> 
> Thank you in advance 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
  
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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Mike Schwab

I agree with the C suggestion.
GCC is for Linux at https://gcc.gnu.org/
GCC is for MVS 3.8 - z/OS 2.2 is at http://gccmvs.sourceforge.net/
includes Hercules, MVS 3.8, GCC.


On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Steve Beaver  wrote:
> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
> it to zSeries box.  That being said,
>
> -   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
> Part.
>
> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>
> That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.
>
> = = = = = = = = = =
>
> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
> a Linux Platform?
>
> Thank you in advance
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Tom Brennan


Starting footnotes with [0] ?
Sure sign of a C programmer :)

Tomasz Rola wrote:


As of which Linux, I guess you should choose the one that has
documentation and tutorials on their homepage. I am long time Debian
[0] user [1] but I have no idea if this would be the best choice for
you. Sometimes it was not so easy to solve problems, but overally, I
was only few times stuck, never frustrated. Given that you can learn,
you can learn and see which one is best for you.


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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Tom Brennan


Thanks Charles, that's exactly what I meant.

Charles Mills wrote:

Don't purchase Linux



@Steve, you get the distinction there? Linux is free -- you never purchase
it. What you can purchase is support, particular distribution formats,
add-ons, etc. Tom is saying that if you were running enterprise production
you would want support, but for home use you need not purchase anything. You
can use Google for your "support."

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 10:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

Don't purchase Linux for your own use - you'll find answers to issues using
Google.  At least that's been my experience.

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Tom Marchant

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:59:40 -0500, Steve Beaver wrote:

>First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
>writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>
>My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
>it to zSeries box.  That being said,

First of all, it is GNU/Linux. That is, it is the GNU operating system with a 
Linux 
kernel. See http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html
It is a distinction that many ignore and many others are tired of hearing, but 
the 
fact is that without the work that was done on the GNU operating system 
starting 
in 1984, seven years before Linus Torvalds began work on the Linux kernel, 
there 
would be no "Linux system".

Indeed, in early posts from Linus about his project, he wrote about including 
bash 
and gcc, both developed as part of the GNU project. In a follow-up, he wrote 
about 
including the GNU utilities. So even he acknowledged the contribution of the 
GNU 
project at that time.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.os.minix/dlNtH7RRrGA/SwRavCzVE7gJ

>-  I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
>Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>Part.

I would caution you that some hardware requires proprietary drivers. Some 
hardware is difficult to support with GNU/Linux. For example, you will have 
trouble with nVidia graphics cards and many wi-fi chipsets. 
https://www.h-node.org/ has lists of compatible hardware. 

>Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
>SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?

Purchase? Most distributions, or "distros" are available for download at no 
cost. 
There are many. I don't know how complete the list is that is at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions

If you want to pay for support, that is another question, for which I don't 
have an 
answer.

What are your goals? Do you want the kind of freedom that is described in
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html ?
Or do you want a system that looks and behaves as much like Windows as 
possible? Playing DVDs and using Flash are two things that require proprietary 
software, and are not available on completely libre distros. 

Many proponents of free software like to use the word "Libre" to distinguish it 
from "gratis", meaning without monetary cost. The English language has only 
one word for both of these meanings. There is a slogan: Think of free speech, 
not free beer.

My son is a strong proponent of libre software and uses Trisquel. At the 
opposite 
end of the spectrum are distros like Linux Mint, which includes Flash and the 
codecs required to play DVDs, as well as other proprietary drivers.

There is a list of libre distros at http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

I usually use Fedora, and have been for about 10 years. They make it relatively 
easy for a novice to download and create a DVD or flash drive to boot from. 
Having booted either, you can install it to your hard drive. There are tools to 
partition your hard drive, and you can set your system up so that you can 
choose 
which partition to boot from each time. I like to set my systems up with a 
partition 
for the /home directory that is mounted on whichever root I boot. In Linux, 
/home 
is the equivalent of /u on z/OS Unix.

I also like to create a /service directory where I can mount my other root 
partitions. 
It's something that I learned from working with z/OS Unix.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Tomasz Rola

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 10:59:40AM -0500, Steve Beaver wrote:
> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed. 
>  
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
> it to zSeries box.  That being said,
> 
> - I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>   Part.

This much? I think that for merely learning to program in some UNIX
flavour you could get away with 1gig and text console. With more
memory (I have 12g right now) one can easily run few virtual machines
with fully blown production environments (OS + web server + small size
database + editors + compilers etc). Of course browser will easily eat
2 gigs of ram, and it is not going to change for the better so I guess
16 will make your computer better suited for meeting future demands of
desktop environments.

> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?

Um, do you have to purchase it, really? They should be freely
available for download, too. I am not sure about RedHat and its
cousins, however. It was long long ago last time I looked that way. I
guess Suse is downloadable.

> That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.

I recommend some books about "programming in UNIX" if you want to
learn C. I guess it does not really matter which one, because at one
point it becomes obvious there is plenty of documentation available
both hanging on the net and as ready to install packages for your
Linux of choice. So you can catch up with the basics of UNIX and then
proceed to Linux specifics. You can also program in any language
which can be had both on Linux and Z, like perhaps Perl or Python (and
certainly Java belongs to both worlds and more - but Java's future
seems a little bit uncertain to me).

> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
> a Linux Platform?

Many people claim emacs is The Ultimate Editor Only One We Ever Need
and I think there is much truth in this. Still, I use vi (vim - very
modern and nice vi descendant) whenever situation makes it more useful
or for quick edits of small files. While emacs is much better for
those long nightly coding sessions. Just MHO.

Overally, your questions are a bit hard to answer. "Editor" for
example, has been a word overloaded with meanings. There might be an
editor in a classic sense, like vi or emacs. And there might be an
IDE, which is like a factory with editor inside, but many people call
it editor, too. Myself, I would rather avoid IDEs and languages which
make use of IDE obligatory (because the structure/design of such
language is such that one cannot do much if anything by merely editing
files - for examples, see Visual Basic, which probably cannot be used
without specialised IDE at all).

I guess the choice of programming language will thus dictate the
choice of "editor". So perhaps you should specify this before going
further.

As of which Linux, I guess you should choose the one that has
documentation and tutorials on their homepage. I am long time Debian
[0] user [1] but I have no idea if this would be the best choice for
you. Sometimes it was not so easy to solve problems, but overally, I
was only few times stuck, never frustrated. Given that you can learn,
you can learn and see which one is best for you.

[0] As far as internet is concerned, there are two major families of
Linux distros - one descends from Red Hat (Suse belongs here) and the
other descends from Debian (Ubuntu belongs here). Plus few other
distros with strong entrenched following, like Slackware (I was there,
too) or Gentoo.

[1] I am not sure what to think about current direction of Linux
evolution, so I keep looking at FreeBSD. They too have some tutorials
and whatever one learns on one OS should somehow transfer to another
(not 1 to 1 but maybe 1 to 0.75). But as you want to stay connected to
z world, I am not sure if FBSD is good idea in your case. It all
depends on what exactly you want to do, because majority of tools are
available on both OSes, or so I believe. I understand that with Linux
one has to display a lot of "do it yourself" attitude, but with
FreeBSD even more so (which does not frighten me at all).

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Charles Mills

> Don't purchase Linux

@Steve, you get the distinction there? Linux is free -- you never purchase
it. What you can purchase is support, particular distribution formats,
add-ons, etc. Tom is saying that if you were running enterprise production
you would want support, but for home use you need not purchase anything. You
can use Google for your "support."

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 10:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

Don't purchase Linux for your own use - you'll find answers to issues using
Google.  At least that's been my experience.

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Tom Brennan

Don't purchase Linux for your own use - you'll find answers to issues 
using Google.  At least that's been my experience.


If you haven't worked with Linux at all, I'd actually recommend 
something I bought recently, the Raspberry Pi 3 - CanaKit from Amazon 
for $79 comes with everything you need to get started.  I run their 
Raspian (Debian) distribution as recommended, but at this point any 
Linux will get you going - they are so much alike.  This can help you 
learn some of the basics such as how to install software using apt-get 
or yum, maybe get a web server going, and maybe figure out how to work 
with iptables (firewall) and other OS-related things.


Although the Raspian install comes with a GUI, I never use it. I tend to 
be very command-line oriented so the Pi runs as a server and I SSH to it 
 from my Windows PC using the free PuTTY SSH client.


On Linux you'll most likely be using C.  If you're familiar with ASM and 
REXX, you'll like it.  It's really easy to work with once you get the 
hang of it.  Plus, I tell my kids to learn C if they want to do any 
programming in the future, since things like javascript and php (and a 
zillion others) are all based on C.


So instead of using a GUI/IDE (at least at first) I'd recommend 
compiling using gcc (compiler), make (tells the compiler/linkeditor what 
to do), and gdb (debugger), all which run from the command line. 
Editing is often a pain via SSH (vi or whatever), so I edit files on the 
Pi by setting up Samba, which makes directories and files available as a 
Windows network drive.  It's all quite amazing and not difficult to set 
up.  If you head that direction and need help let me know and I'll try 
to find my month-old notes.


So I edit using MS Visual Studio on my PC, saving files to disk P: which 
is mapped to the Pi, then switch to an SSH session on my PC and use 
"make" to compile and gdb to debug.  And since all these things are 
probably available on z/Linux, I would bet there will be little or no 
difference when you try to compile and run your new code there.


For Hercules on my x86 box (not Pi which runs ARM) I use CentOS which is 
a free Redhat clone.  That was my first home Linux distribution and I 
still like it after many years.


Steve Beaver wrote:

First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
writes in HLASM and REXX as needed. 
 
My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port

it to zSeries box.  That being said,

-   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb of
Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
Part.

Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?

That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.

= = = = = = = = = = 


Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in on
a Linux Platform?

Thank you in advance 



 


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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Scott Ford

There are a lot of IDEs and gnu is like a standard

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Scott Ford <idfzos...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Depends on what you want to develop in..
>
> On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Steve Beaver <st...@stevebeaver.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','st...@stevebeaver.com');>> wrote:
>
>> What about a compiler/binder ?
>>
>> And is there a Linux tutorial/course to get to speed before attaching
>> writing code?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Ed Jaffe
>> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:20 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Linux
>>
>> On 3/26/2016 8:59 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:
>> > Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I
>> > Know SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>>
>> Most IBMers tend to recommend SUSE because of their responsiveness, but
>> we have been running Red Hat Enterprise Linux for years on our z Systems
>> and are *extremely* happy with it.
>>
>> --
>> Edward E Jaffe
>> Phoenix Software International, Inc
>> 831 Parkview Drive North
>> El Segundo, CA 90245
>> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>>
>> --
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>

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Scott Ford

Steve,

Depends on what you want to develop in..

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Steve Beaver <st...@stevebeaver.com> wrote:

> What about a compiler/binder ?
>
> And is there a Linux tutorial/course to get to speed before attaching
> writing code?
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:20 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: Linux
>
> On 3/26/2016 8:59 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:
> > Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I
> > Know SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>
> Most IBMers tend to recommend SUSE because of their responsiveness, but we
> have been running Red Hat Enterprise Linux for years on our z Systems and
> are *extremely* happy with it.
>
> --
> Edward E Jaffe
> Phoenix Software International, Inc
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
> --
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>
> --
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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Steve Beaver

What about a compiler/binder ?

And is there a Linux tutorial/course to get to speed before attaching writing 
code?

Steve

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 11:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Linux

On 3/26/2016 8:59 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:
> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I 
> Know SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?

Most IBMers tend to recommend SUSE because of their responsiveness, but we have 
been running Red Hat Enterprise Linux for years on our z Systems and are 
*extremely* happy with it.

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Scott Ford

Ed,

I liked it alsovery happy with it, had older versions 6.2 etc..


Scott

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Ed Jaffe  wrote:

> On 3/26/2016 8:59 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
>> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>>
>
> Most IBMers tend to recommend SUSE because of their responsiveness, but we
> have been running Red Hat Enterprise Linux for years on our z Systems and
> are *extremely* happy with it.
>
> --
> Edward E Jaffe
> Phoenix Software International, Inc
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Ed Jaffe


On 3/26/2016 8:59 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:

Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?


Most IBMers tend to recommend SUSE because of their responsiveness, but 
we have been running Red Hat Enterprise Linux for years on our z Systems 
and are *extremely* happy with it.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Scott Ford

Steve,

You can use gedit on Gnome and kernite on KDE

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Scott Ford  wrote:

> Steve,
>
> I have build boxes using OpenSUSE , Fedora , Redhat because of Hercules.
> Any of the distros above were easy to learn and I like Gnome or KDE.
> I have OpenSUSE 13.1 with Open Object Rexx ...
>
> Scott
>
> On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Steve Beaver  > wrote:
>
>> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
>> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>>
>> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed
>> port
>> it to zSeries box.  That being said,
>>
>> -   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb
>> of
>> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
>> Part.
>>
>> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
>> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>>
>> That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in
>> on
>> a Linux Platform?
>>
>> Thank you in advance
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>

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Re: Linux

2016-03-26 Thread Scott Ford

Steve,

I have build boxes using OpenSUSE , Fedora , Redhat because of Hercules.
Any of the distros above were easy to learn and I like Gnome or KDE.
I have OpenSUSE 13.1 with Open Object Rexx ...

Scott

On Saturday, March 26, 2016, Steve Beaver  wrote:

> First of all I am first and foremost an zOS Systems programmer that only
> writes in HLASM and REXX as needed.
>
> My goal is to learn Linux and then develop in Linux and then as needed port
> it to zSeries box.  That being said,
>
> -   I am going to build a 64 Bit a box with 16 gig of memory and 8 Tb
> of
> Storage and a DVD/RW.  That is the easy
> Part.
>
> Does anyone have any input on which version of Linux to purchase?  I Know
> SUSE has an enterprise 64 bit product?
>
> That is the sum and total of my knowledge of Linux.
>
> = = = = = = = = = =
>
> Can anyone suggest an Editor besides VI, and which language to develop in
> on
> a Linux Platform?
>
> Thank you in advance
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-18 Thread Martin Packer

I'm not aware that we've announced a follow on to z12 BC so I would assume 
so.

Jim Elliott follows this newsgroup so will probably want to wade in at 
some point.

Cheers, Martin

Martin Packer,
zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator,
Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM

+44-7802-245-584

email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com

Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker
Blog: 
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker



From:   Mark Post mp...@suse.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date:   17/08/2015 20:48
Subject:Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU



 On 8/17/2015 at 01:54 PM, Mark Post wrote: 
 The Rock Hopper would be the new business class z13, with only IFL 
engines 
 and new color scheme.

Looks like I was wrong on this one.  I see mentions that the Rock Hopper 
is a z12BC.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-18 Thread Shane Ginnane

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 22:47:07 -0600, Mark Post wrote:

That has never been the case.  We have always supported installing on z/VM or 
in an LPAR.

Hmmm - I was sure I had a migration doc that said z/VM was now required for the 
install scripts (rather than just recommended).
My bad maybe.

Shane ...

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-18 Thread Jon Butler

It seems to me this is another abstraction layer that would enable an instance 
of bare-metal Linux to spool up multiple instances in an LPAR without z/VM.  

What would the effect be of running KVM in a Linux instance under z/VM?   And 
of course PR/SM is still dispatching logical IFLs onto real IFLs...or are we 
eliminating PR/SM on the LinuxONE and perhaps going back to a version of MFT?

I will be interested to see the Nürburgring lap times comparing KVM with z/VM.




.

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-18 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/18/2015 at 08:43 AM, Jon Butler butler@gmail.com wrote: 
 It seems to me this is another abstraction layer that would enable an 
 instance of bare-metal Linux to spool up multiple instances in an LPAR 
 without z/VM.  

That's the whole purpose of KVM, on any architecture.

 What would the effect be of running KVM in a Linux instance under z/VM?

Pretty bad performance, to start with.  The z/Architecture only provides 2 
layers of SIE (start interpretive execution).  PR/SM takes up one, z/VM would 
then take up the second, leaving Linux without that huge boost.
   
 And of course PR/SM is still dispatching logical IFLs onto real IFLs...or are 
 we eliminating PR/SM on the LinuxONE and perhaps going back to a version of 
 MFT?

Not at all.

 I will be interested to see the Nürburgring lap times comparing KVM with 
 z/VM.

Things will probably not be too different between them at low levels of over 
commitment of resources.  After that, z/VM will blow the doors off KVM.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-18 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In 6233245832691859.wa.butler.jongmail@listserv.ua.edu, on
08/18/2015
   at 07:43 AM, Jon Butler butler@gmail.com said:

What would the effect be of running KVM in a Linux instance under
z/VM?   And of course PR/SM is still dispatching logical IFLs onto
real IFLs...or are we eliminating PR/SM on the LinuxONE and 
perhaps going back to a version of MFT?

MFT? EXPN?
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Shane Ginnane

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:54:24 -0600, Mark Post wrote:

It appears their KVM offering also comes with some monitoring capability, 
although I haven't seen any details there.

Oh joy, ILM for Linux   :(
Given this:
quote IBM now has three strategic virtualization platforms: IBM z/VM®, IBM 
PR/SM™, and KVM for IBM z Systems. /quote
are we to assume KVM runs on the bare hardware ?. As it should.
Last I looked (a while ago admittedly) SuSE required z/VM (running on PR/SM) 
for the packaged installer. Fedora for z has been usable on Herc, so presumably 
it will fit ok.

Been waiting for this to happen for years - I do wonder about (re-)configuring 
the machine though. Even UEFI stirred the hornets in the other universe, 
dropping something like stand-alone IOCP on them is gunna be fun to watch.

Shane ...

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/17/2015 at 08:31 PM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: 
 Given this:
 quote IBM now has three strategic virtualization platforms: IBM z/VM*, IBM 
 PR/SM*, and KVM for IBM z Systems. /quote
 are we to assume KVM runs on the bare hardware ?. As it should.

Yes.  KVM is just Linux so of course it can run on the bare hardware.

 Last I looked (a while ago admittedly) SuSE required z/VM (running on PR/SM) 
 for the packaged installer. Fedora for z has been usable on Herc, so 
 presumably it will fit ok.

That has never been the case.  We have always supported installing on z/VM or 
in an LPAR.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/17/2015 at 12:14 PM, Dana Mitchell mitchd...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Is there  any info available yet on the hardware?  Hopefully an official 
 announcement is coming soon,  all the links I've found so far are just 
 marketing buzzword filled.   Is it just a z13 with all IFL's and new colors 
 in the door panels?

From what I can tell, the Emperor is a z13 with only IFL engines and 
modified color scheme.  The Rock Hopper would be the new business class z13, 
with only IFL engines and new color scheme.  As always, IBM marketing does 
more to confuse the people who need to work with this stuff than anything else.

 Has KVM always run on z or is that new today too? 

KVM has been available on z for a while now.  SUSE introduced it as a Technical 
Preview back in 2012 with SLES11 SP2.  I've been giving presentations on it at 
SHARE for a while now.

From what I've been hearing, IBM has been working with the open source 
community to get a few more of the features running on z that have been 
available for a long time on x86.  It appears their KVM offering also comes 
with some monitoring capability, although I haven't seen any details there.

As part of the announcements today, SUSE has stated that we will officially 
support SLES 12 systems running on IBM's KVM hypervisor.  I haven't seen 
anything about Red Hat support as of yet.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Walt Farrell

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:14:40 -0500, Dana Mitchell mitchd...@gmail.com wrote:

Has KVM always run on z or is that new today too? 

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/1/897/ENUS215-261/index.htmllang=enrequest_locale=en
 or http://preview.tinyurl.com/prff5fb

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Mark Regan

The IBM announcement is at

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/47474.wss

Mark T. Regan, K8MTR


CTO1, USNR-Retired
1969-1991

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Dana Mitchell mitchd...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there  any info available yet on the hardware?  Hopefully an official
 announcement is coming soon,  all the links I've found so far are just
 marketing buzzword filled.   Is it just a z13 with all IFL's and new colors
 in the door panels?

 Has KVM always run on z or is that new today too?

 Dana

 On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:06:37 -0400, Mark Regan marktre...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/17/2015 at 09:06 AM, Mark Regan marktre...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

To me, the more interesting aspect of this is that IBM is sort-of introducing 
the concept of pay for what you use for Linux systems.  This used to be the 
province of z/OS only and has led to extreme examples of gyrations to keep 
costs down.  I have to say it worries me, given what I've read from various 
z/OS shops in this mailing list.  The more time people spend worrying about 
keeping costs down, the less time they have for real work that provides real 
value to the business.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Dana Mitchell

Is there  any info available yet on the hardware?  Hopefully an official 
announcement is coming soon,  all the links I've found so far are just 
marketing buzzword filled.   Is it just a z13 with all IFL's and new colors in 
the door panels?

Has KVM always run on z or is that new today too? 

Dana

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:06:37 -0400, Mark Regan marktre...@gmail.com wrote:

Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Andre Massena

Evening all,


pray tell what is sort-of? 

KVM/QEMU and it's derivatives have been around for rather a long time in the 
unwashed/tamatotchi world.

zKVM is nothing more than an attempt by IBM to make a hypervisor palatable to a 
generation that do not have the know-how or indeed,  the discipline to 
create/maimntain such a beauty as z/VM (CP 64-67 or indeed, VM/BSEPP, Matisse, 
Sartre.

Can such things happen?? - Asks a Luddite?    

The Germans have a lovely expression for this generation, perhaps the epoch we 
live in today - Die Wegwerf Generation - The throw-away generation / Pizza / Mc 
Donalds etc.)

Tis indeed sad, me being but a very young child of the sixties. 

For purely informational purposes, I actually work in BB-DE. Those who work in 
the lab will know where I mean.


Cordialement



Andre    


 Message d'origine 
De : Mark Post mp...@suse.com
À : IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Objet : Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes
Date : 17/08/2015 20:00:08 CEST

 On 8/17/2015 at 09:06 AM, Mark Regan marktre...@gmail.com wrote: 
 Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

To me, the more interesting aspect of this is that IBM is sort-of introducing 
the concept of pay for what you use for Linux systems. This used to be the 
province of z/OS only and has led to extreme examples of gyrations to keep 
costs down. I have to say it worries me, given what I've read from various z/OS 
shops in this mailing list. The more time people spend worrying about keeping 
costs down, the less time they have for real work that provides real value to 
the business.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Mark Post

 On 8/17/2015 at 01:54 PM, Mark Post wrote: 
 The Rock Hopper would be the new business class z13, with only IFL engines 
 and new color scheme.

Looks like I was wrong on this one.  I see mentions that the Rock Hopper is a 
z12BC.


Mark Post

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Re: Linux Without Limits: IBM Launch LinuxONE Mainframes

2015-08-17 Thread Dana Mitchell

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:00:08 -0600, Mark Post mp...@suse.com wrote:

To me, the more interesting aspect of this is that IBM is sort-of introducing 
the concept of pay for what you use for Linux systems.  This used to be the 
province of z/OS only and has led to extreme examples of gyrations to keep 
costs down.  I have to say it worries me, given what I've read from various 
z/OS shops in this mailing list.  The more time people spend worrying about 
keeping costs down, the less time they have for real work that provides real 
value to the business.


Yes indeed!  I have seen some 'extreme examples of gyrations' to keep MSU costs 
down.

I wonder how they would implement this?  The equivalent of the SCRT report each 
month for measured usage billing generated from each of the 1000's of linux 
images running on an 'Emperor'?   Or perhaps a hook into HIS and report at the 
CEC level?

Dana

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Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares

2013-11-04 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In 5273c6a0.6020...@us.ibm.com, on 11/01/2013
   at 11:20 AM, John Eells ee...@us.ibm.com said:

I am reliably told that there are in fact *two* MP effect curves. 
There  is indeed a machine-level curve that reduces the capacity of
the overall  machine when an engine is added (or activated) to a CEC. 
I have not  seen the numbers but I'm told this particular MP effect,
which has to do  with things related to shared hardware
infrastructure within the  machine, while nonzero, is relatively
small in the grand scheme of things.

Then there's the single-LPAR, i.e., single-operating system MP
effect.  This MP effect is far more pronounced than the one above,
and it's the  one I had always heard people talk about (up until
today, that is).

Yes, if every CP is dedicated. But isn't there a third MP effect when
you share a processor across LPAR's?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares

2013-11-04 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
Yes, if every CP is dedicated. But isn't there a third MP effect when you 
share a processor across LPAR's?

Yes, there is a 3th MP effect for such sharing. When workload is heavy, this is 
unavoidable.

Think about giving icecreams to kiddies. No problem if you have 1 kid. 
Scratching heads when you have more kids. Who do you give what? More 
headscratching and time wasting if these delicasies are different. To who are 
you giving vanilla and to who the choc one? Of course, the kids can't decide, 
YOU decide. They cannot wait, while you are having MP effect to decide.

Now if you want both or more kids to lick ONE icecream, well... they can take 
turns, but this is going to be difficult... ;-D

More trouble if you decide to eat them (IPL the LPAR with the most CPU while 
others have to do with the few CPUs) before them (crying) kids! ;-D

Above is just a sample description of MP effect as explained to me by a helpful 
IBMer about 20 years ago.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares

2013-11-01 Thread Timothy Sipples

Of course software, networking, data centers, storage, output (e.g.
printing), and staffing are always and everywhere free, so let's just spend
countless hours talking about the acquisition price of server hardware, and
even then neither considering how much actual work a processor performs nor
QoS factors.

:-)


Timothy Sipples
GMU VCT Architect Executive (Based in Singapore)
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com
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Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares

2013-11-01 Thread Shane Ginnane

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 15:32:20 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:

According to this IBM web site, the IFL runs at full speed.

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/linux/solutions/ifl.html

Full functionality of a System z processor and operating on full capacity

FSVO full capacity.
You don't get the real (i.e. UP) full cpacity, but the equivalent full 
capacity of the MP level of your base CEC.
So if you upgrade (within the model range) to more CP engines, not only do 
(each of) your CPs get smaller, so do your IFLs.

Cute, huh ?.

Shane ...

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Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares

2013-11-01 Thread John Eells


Shane Ginnane wrote:

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 15:32:20 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:


According to this IBM web site, the IFL runs at full speed.

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/linux/solutions/ifl.html

Full functionality of a System z processor and operating on full capacity


FSVO full capacity.
You don't get the real (i.e. UP) full cpacity, but the equivalent full 
capacity of the MP level of your base CEC.
So if you upgrade (within the model range) to more CP engines, not only do 
(each of) your CPs get smaller, so do your IFLs.

snip

This was so surprising a statement to me that I had to poke at it 
because I had never heard of a CEC-level MP effect.


I am reliably told that there are in fact *two* MP effect curves.  There 
is indeed a machine-level curve that reduces the capacity of the overall 
machine when an engine is added (or activated) to a CEC.  I have not 
seen the numbers but I'm told this particular MP effect, which has to do 
with things related to shared hardware infrastructure within the 
machine, while nonzero, is relatively small in the grand scheme of things.


Then there's the single-LPAR, i.e., single-operating system MP effect. 
This MP effect is far more pronounced than the one above, and it's the 
one I had always heard people talk about (up until today, that is).


You learn something new every day...

--
John Eells
z/OS Technical Marketing
IBM Poughkeepsie
ee...@us.ibm.com

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