RE: [jug-discussion] Flex Web services

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey Dennis - 

I've only run through a sample with Flex web services. I found it easier
touse simple XML over HTTP, or the flex data services to do RPC and let
the Flex Server handle the serialization.

I was looking at an article on AMFphp and OpenAMF (flash remoting for
Php and Java)...which linked to a benchmark (a bit dated, used Flash 7.0
instead of current 9.0). 

The reason I bring that up is they made a point worth considering -- to
consume a non-local service, you have to leverage a server proxy, so it
may be faster in some situations to leverage the Server to connect to
the SOAP service, and use the faster flash remoting to the Flex front
end.

http://www.flashorb.com/articles/soap_vs_flash_remoting_benchmark.htm 

(Note: I'm fairly sure Flex v2 can connect to non-local services, but
the services must have a permissions file at the server root to allow
connections. )


-Tim


> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Sosnoski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:33 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: [jug-discussion] Flex Web services
> 
> I've seen some past Flex discussions on the list - has anyone 
> tried using Flex for web services? One of my clients has a 
> customer who wants to use Flex, and they're having a lot of 
> problems trying to make it work. The service is doc/lit form, 
> with namespaces used for the payload.
> 
>  - Dennis
> 
> --
> Dennis M. Sosnoski
> SOA, Web Services, and XML
> Training and Consulting
> http://www.sosnoski.com - http://www.sosnoski.co.nz Seattle, 
> WA +1-425-296-6194 - Wellington, NZ +64-4-298-6117
> 
> 
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[jug-discussion] 30 Min Flex Test-drive for Java Devs

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Downloadable WAR for tomcat, with src and a walkthrough.
http://coenraets.org/testdrive/flex4j/index.htm

Speaking of src...the Actionscript src is included for all the standard
components so they can be completely rewritten if necessary. 

Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

>do you have anything online that you've built?
Not publicly. The work I've done is proof of concept internal stuff. 

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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> considered Flex but it's a little lower down on my list 
> because of the Flash plug-in requirement. The customer would 
> like a thin-client with no plugins.

Yeah, the plugin is small and startup is fairly quick...but I hear what
you're saying. 

The license change opens Flex 2.0 up for consideration for me... but the
ultimate decision must still be based on the client needs. 

For "quick in and out tasks" HTML & AJAX seem to be just fine. (ex.
lookup a single address and print a map: google maps)

More involved task-based applications seem more ripe for Flex. (ex.
lookup five addresses, and manually plot a traveling-salesman course to
all of them: Yahoo Maps)

Video is another interesting area for Flex -- say you wanted to create a
customer service app where the service rep's were speaking to the client
with video. Hard to impossible in "Web 2.0" but certainly doable in a
Flex App.

-Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> I hadn't followed this development.tell us more. To where 
> has the licensing fee moved? (i.e. what are the new 
> deployment/licensing terms?).

As you saw, I described them a bit in a prev email that'll probably hit
your box a few seconds after you sent this one. :-)

I'll add that the  IDE, Flex Builder is a separate charge. (It
is based on Eclipse, and Mr. Green will be happy to hear I think they
did a great job with it. I like it. It's not as good as if they'd used
Intellij of course... but I digress. )

If you need the "chart" components, they also cost a few hundred bucks
per developer. 

> Also, does Flex require its own server?, or only requires it 
> to get some advanced feature set?
Just to re-iterate...not anymore. You can deploy just the flash file. Or
you can leverage the Data Services server-side component...J2EE, can
drop it into an existing JVM.


> BTW - (just an off-topic comment) per-CPU licensing terms 
> tend to be deal-breakers with gov't clients, who often have 
> machines with many CPUs.
Yeah, I understand the logic in trying to charge based on CPU in that
smaller folks pay less than massive apps. But it also hurts when two
4-CPU boxen are in use in a cluster for an app-farm and only 1 out of
200 might actually use flex. 

My understanding is that $20K/cpu is really just a starting point, so
like the $35K sticker on a car, careful negotiation can probably hammer
out a deal for far less. 


-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Josh wrote:
"From a Java perspective Laszlo still does appear more attractive. "

I disagree. 
>From a license standpoint, Flex 1.0 and 1.5 were certainly unattractive.
>From a "java" perspective -- my experience has been positive with Flex. 

For example, using the server component it takes only a configuration
setting to enable the client to call an unmodified POJO, pass
parameters, and use the returned object or collection of objects. It's a
slick way to leverage existing code.

>  In your professional opinion, which platform offers more for 
> ~20K budget?  ~50K?  ~100K?
It depends on the assessment of value for what is offered. If "open
source" is of utmost importance, then Flex provides no value. If
documentation, support, and speed of development are desired, then Flex
provides a fair bit of value.

-Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] just curious - flamebait

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

So nice of you to acknowledge my genius, but the thread still is what it
is, flamebait. I'll pass on discussing it.  

> -Original Message-
> From: josh zeidner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:48 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] just curious - flamebait
> 
> 
>   Flamebait?  Thats an interesting way to avoid having to 
> state anything that might tarnish your reputation as  the 
> local genius.  
> 
>   -jmz
> 
> ot: you guys are load of laughs
> 
> > > > Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a
> > discussion on
> > > the topic of
> > > > JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk
> > your own talk
> > > and start
> > > > a new thread with a relevant subject line.
> > > 
> > >   Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread?

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RE: [jug-discussion] Flex 2.0 vs Dojo vs Google API

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Well at the risk of being accused of being a hijacker and 
> being assaulted by ALLCAPS what would I get from Flex2.0 1cpu 
> license that I can't get from Laszlo which is not only free 
> to put on as many cpus as you want but is also open source 
> and not left to pricing whims of Adobe (free today - $$$ tomorrow)?

Ha...this is Mike's thread - folks can have smackdown they want between
the threehmm... Laszlo isn't in there. 

Flex -- *without* the server component, is free for any use.  It's not
open source, so that could be a showstopper. 

The server component does a bunch of stuff you may or may not find
useful, overview/details:
http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/productinfo/overview/
http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/dataservices/

I did a proof of concept using the server component for 1.5...and I
found it to really speed up development by handling some of the drudgery
of the RMI over the wire.

An interesting aspect of Flex and the Google API to me is that they both
seem to be trying to present a standard "programming" paradigm. ex.
objects and action listeners that appeal to a Java developer more than a
javascript/html person.

Have a look at a quick demo with code/MXML.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/quickstart/coding_with_mxml_and_actions
cript/

Flex has a lot of widgets, including charts, that are fairly
mature...and lots of solid second generation documentation and samples.
It's not without flaws, but I keep coming back to it as a compelling
option. 

The Google API is slick too, and DOJO has some great demo's... but
lately I've been really drawn to the responsiveness and features in
Yahoo's Flex-based maps (http://maps.yahoo.com). 

Tim
 


-Tim




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RE: [jug-discussion] just curious - flamebait

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> > Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a discussion on 
> the topic of 
> > JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your own talk 
> and start 
> > a new thread with a relevant subject line.
> 
>   Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread?

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RE: [jug-discussion] Flex 2.0 vs Dojo vs Google API

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> OK HERE GOES PUBLICLY SINCE PRIVATELY DIDN'T AVOID A FLAME 
> WAR, I MICHAEL OLIVER DID OFFENSIVELY INSERT MY QUESTION IN 
> TIM'S THREAD AND I APOLOGIZE!
> YOUR QUESTION WAS NOT LESS IMPORTANT THAN MY QUESTION.

Mike... simmer down and slow down, dude. You emailed publicly and
privately at the same time, so I justreplied to both. 

And I didn't flame... I would have called you something nasty if it was
a flame. Have a look, I just did a little explaining why I thought it
was uncool -- about a 1.5 on a scale of of 1 to 10 of flame hotness. ha!

I'm just fine down here in Tucson, it's a beatiful day.  ;-)


Back to the topic of *this mesg*: as I said, personally, I don't really
care to argue the merits of Flex/Dojo/Google API. They do different
things.

I think folks should use whatever item or combo fits their needs. 

-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Josh wrote:
>   I'm considering using Flex for a project.  What are the 
> terms of this 'free Single CPU' license?  If its free why 
> don't I just get another free one for another CPU?

My understanding of the license is that you can run one App on one
machine with One CPU. It forbids running the same app on many machines
(ex. kiosks or clustered). 

Actually...that's not quite the full story.

You *can* run the same app on a cluster/kiosk...if it does *not* use the
Flex Express Data Services component. If you just have a Flex/Flash file
that's connectig to basic HTTP-based web services... you can run it with
as much load as you wish.

Flex Data Services Express is the server component that provides
declarative security, a binary RMI with auto marshalling/serializaing of
objects, auto-conversion between Java and Actionscript objects,
proxy-whitelists, and more. 

I'm betting the assumption by Adobe is that folks will try raw free Flex
and like it. Then they will try free FDSE and like that more, and
eventually need to scale up and spend $20K/CPU for the Enterprise
version. If that works or not...time will tell.

Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] Flex 2.0 vs Dojo vs Google API

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Mike wrote
> Pardon me Tim,
> I thought the topic WAS "Rich Clients" so Dojo and Google 
> toolkits were on topic, not intended to hijack your topic.

The topic I'm interested in is quite narrow -- "Java Rich Clients with
Flex 2.0?"
 
I asked nothing about alternatives to or merits of Flex. 
 
I specifically asked if based on the new "free" licenses anyone is
considering using Flex as a front end with Java. I'm not interested in
DOJO or Google API or Laszlo or Project Foo. 

FYI -- "perhaps a better question is..." -- inherently dismisses my
question as "not as good as this one" and then changed the topic to
something entirely different. Make all the Beaves and Butthead refs you
want...but that was uncool.

-Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] Web Oriented Architecture "WOA"

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> I agree that focus on XML as the message is key. 
I'm not even sure that XML is the key. I've been experimenting with some
JSON data transmission, and it seems to work just fine with the bonus of
no angle brackets.

http://developer.yahoo.com/common/json.html

Parsing or outputing in Java is easy and in Javascript it's truly
trivial (since it's a native data struct).

Why do we all buy into XML? For two good reasons -- it's plain text that
is both human readable and usually understandable, even without a
schema. JSON provides the same thing. I'm not going to argue JSON v.s.
XML smackdown... just pointing out that it seems like another rationale
option for services. 

-Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo - closed

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a discussion on the topic of
JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your own talk and start a
new thread with a relevant subject line.

-Tim


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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Perhaps a better question is "What features or flexibility 
> does Flex 2.0 offer over Dojo or the Google AJAX toolkits?"

No, that would be a *different* topic, and one I don't care to discuss. 

If you'd like to discuss it, by all means feel free to send an email
with a different subject line, please do not rudely hijack this one. 

Thanks,
Tim

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[jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

So now that the Flex 2.0 SDK and deployment to "a single CPU" is free...
has anyone here started to rethink Java + Flex for client projects? 


-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Lol... am I the only one laughing that Nick sent this from his yahoo.com
email?

Hojillion -- "number of hos you can fit in your car" ... hmm, in my
two-seater that'd only be one and she'd have to sit on the wife's
lap...which would most likely end badly. 

It's too bad GOOG doesn't seem to have a remote worker option... or 

FYI... I'll be at the Yahoo Open Hack Day (hackday.org) in the Bay Area
next weekend. Anybody else going to be there? 

Nick? Or are you too "white and nerdy"?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7939447080926152362&q=white+and+
nerdy

-Timo


> -Original Message-
> From: Nick Lesiecki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:23 AM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Fwd: Potentially 
> interesting Seattle Times story
> 
> I think this is an appropriate time to mention that Google 
> has an office in Phoenix, and if you want to be part of a 
> team that wins a
> hojillion* dollar award, you should send me your resume. I've 
> already helped one of the Tucson JUG'ers find employ at 
> Google, and I hope to shepherd a few more into our "Island of 
> Snacks" in Tempe.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Nick
> 
> * Hojillion: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hojillion
> 
> P.S. This is my one chance for famous name dropping: I was in a  
> meeting w/ Guido Van Rossum yesterday. WOot!
> 
> P.P.S. Despite the tone of this email, I am serious. Send me your  
> resume.

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[jug-discussion] Javalobby book review

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

FYI -- folks here might be interested in signing up. Javalobby plans to
ship out free books and $50 for a review that will be posted onto
javalobby.org. Free book and some public exposure. 

http://www.javalobby.org/wiki/display/br

Cheers,
Timo
(I'm helping with the wiki stuff, of course. ;-)

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RE: [jug-discussion] MS Access / Filemaker like front-end for MySQL/Oracle?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> MS Access will allow you to attach to any ODBC datasource 
> including Oracle and do some really fun stuff.  
Yep, that is definitely an option worth consideration. I seem to recall
having pain when I did this in the past because MS Access frankly wasn't
built to play nice (imho) with anything besides JET and SQL Server. ;-)


> Toad is the 
> other product I always think of when talking about Oracle made easy.
I've got Toad, good stuff...but I'd categorize that as a "tool for
DBA/Developers"...not so much for "end users". 

> You won't mind me replying to your non-java question, because 
> (even though I was born in Tucson) I live in Scottsdale.  
> Guess that makes me not really a qualified TJUG member. ;)
lol... I'm pleased you didn't just throw the email into /dev/null.


Timo

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[jug-discussion] MS Access / Filemaker like front-end for MySQL/Oracle?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

You 
guessed it, this probably has nothing to do with Java. Go ahead, ban me from the 
list. :-P
 
I'm 
looking for something that smells like MS Access (or better) Filemaker that 
enables a nitwit (i.e. end user) to flip data around, edit it, import/export 
it... solution must be multi-user, and can't be web-based. 
 
The 
tool must be ridiculously snappy because it will compete for mindshare with 
Excel...even though we all know Excel is for flippin' calculations... not 
manipulating tables of data...but that's how people use it...they filter, they 
sort, they copy/paste, they fill-down. It is what it is. Excel is a better 
mousetrap for most folks.
 
You 
might say, "Well...then just flippin' use MS Access + SQL Server..." 

 
B. SQL Server 
isn't an option. 
 
There's gotta be some desktop app that does some of the neat trickery 
that the http://www.dabbledb.com folks do in a webapp... something that will run 
cross-platform and connect to Oracle or MySQL for data.
 
Yes...I realize what I'm asking about is a 4GL Client/Server app. 
Go ahead and tell me why that's stupid you must...and I'll ignore it with 
as much aplomb as I can muster. 
 
 
Cheers,
Timo
 
 
 
 
 

RE: [jug-discussion] AJAX/JSON/REST

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I dig JSON and REST-like services (i.e. provide a 
pretty URL like http://serveme/details/tcolson which 
is rewritten (http://tuckey.org/urlrewrite/) to 
whatever arcane backend is req'd...and out pops JSON data...that's my idea of a 
simple service.)
 
Why? JSON eliminates at least some of the hassle of 
un-serializing a value object from a data structure that was sent down the wire 
for use in an HTML page. 
 
Other interesting bits that might make XML seem not so 
bad... E4X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4X
 
Timo

  
  
  From: Michael Oliver 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:48 
  AMTo: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.orgSubject: 
  [jug-discussion] AJAX/JSON/REST
  
  
  Anyone in love with or 
  hates AJAX/JSON/REST?
   
  If so 
  why?

RE: [jug-discussion] Picnic

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I'm out of town in San Jose now through the weekend, so I'll have to
send my regrets. :-(

Have fun folks...and remember, there is NO WIFI in the mountains 
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Solr

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Solr has a custom response handler hook so XML is not 
> required, just the default.

Interesting. 

Do you know of anyone created a handler that returns JSON to compare
speed of parsing?
http://www.json.org/

Might be fun to rig a Solr XML feed to a Flex UI...now that it's free.

(Stop reading now if you don't want to hear about Flex.)

Dunno if anyone has noticed, but Macromede, Adobe is says on their
site that the core Flex 2.0 SDK and distribution will be free.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flexframework2/
 
"At the core of Flex 2.0 is the Flex framework, which is included with
Flex Builder and will also be distributed in the free Flex Software
Development Kit (SDK). Using only the free Flex SDK, you can
commercially deploy Flex applications that connect to XML and SOAP web
services with no additional costs or server licensing required."

Note the limitation of XML services and/or SOAP Services (both lowercase
and upper intentional). The uninitiated might wonder why this is
considered a limit. The "Flex Data Services" server piece (which will
still cost big bucks) provides a super-easy super-fast
binary-proto-over-the-wire auto-serialization
auto-conversion-to-ActionScript-data-types RPC mechanism that can
leverage existing POJO's on the server with finegrained declarative
security. A mouthful of buzzwords that truly is worth something... but
not sure it's worth the price they're asking. ;-)

Oh, and for all you Eclipse freaks... the new FlexBuilder IDE is based
on Eclipse. 

-T

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RE: [jug-discussion] RE:confluence navigation & mod_jk

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Excellent! Much better. In the mean-time we could set a 
> redirect from 80 to 8080 (I won't have time to look at 
> setting up mod_jk until maybe the weekend).

The proxypass trick might be easier, assuming that module is loaded.
http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/MOD_JK+or+Proxy+Setup
http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DISC/Using+Apache+VirtualHosts

According to the comments, a default tomcat running on 8080, might just
need this change to httpd.conf:


 ServerName www.tucson-jug.org
 ServerAlias www.tucson-jug.org
 ProxyPass / http://tucson-jug.org:8080/
 ProxyPassReverse / http://tucson-jug.org:8080/


(Confluence would need it's base url changed to match.)


More proxypass info for apache 2.0
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_proxy.html


-T

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RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Interesting. 

Actionscript 3.0... 
...new "strong typing" and "E4X" 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActionScript
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4X

http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/productinfo/faq/flex2_faq.html#i
tem-4-2

What is ActionScript 3?

ActionScript 3 is a new version of the standards-based language used
to access the Flash Player APIs and implement client-side logic for
Flash and Flex applications. ActionScript 3 is compliant with the
ECMAScript Edition 3 (ECMA-262) specification and is targeted as the
reference implementation for ECMAScript Edition 4 (ES4). ActionScript 3
also supports the core object W3C standard DOM Level 3 event model.


How is ActionScript 3 different from previous versions of ActionScript?

ActionScript 3 introduces several new language features that
increase developer productivity and simplify maintenance of
applications, including the ability to use *strong typing*, native E4X
support, and a new Display List API that makes it easier for developers
to structure and control user interfaces.

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[jug-discussion] RE:confluence navigation & mod_jk

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Okay, Confluence can do navigation out of the box. :-)

Browse Space -> Space Admin -> Themes -> select "Left Navigation" theme.
Add a page called "Navigation".

Bingo. You've got navigation. ;-)


For setting up the port 80 thing -- here are some sample configs using
mod_jk or apache proxypass:
http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/MOD_JK+or+Proxy+Setup

-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Excellent, thanks for setting that up. As for SMTP it doesn't 
> require a login it does some funky authentication by checking 
> to see if that IP has retrieved mail recently, so not really 
> doable. What we would need to do would be to setup our own 
> SMTP on the box itself to get it to work (I believe).

Yes, that's a typical practice of AUTH before Send. But again, I think
it's worth a try to create an account for Confluence (or just try using
your own account to test), create a mail server config with the
userid/password/server and just test to see if Confluence "just works". 

-Tim
 


> > Warner -- you mentioned the SMTP server requires a login. I think  
> > if you
> > create a "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" acccount, Confluence 
> will login  and
> > email will work. Worth a try.

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RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> I think that would be great. Volunteers to help set up? (I 
> have absolutely no idea on how to make confluence look less 
> confluency and more like a regular site).
It is more import to have current information than a site that doesn't
look "confluency", in my opinion. ;-)

-T

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RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> If we are going to do more stuff on the wiki now, it would be 
> good to put a link to it on the main JUG home page.  And 
> maybe link to the meeting list on the wiki too, instead of 
> the outdated one on the home page?

Personally, I'd prefer to see the wiki "be" the homepage, on port 80.
Then anybody who wants to update stuff, can. 

Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] our own code camps?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Seems like a good topic to continue on the wiki. ;-)
http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Home
http://tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Code+Camp+Discussion

Speaking of wiki -- it would help tremendously if a mail server was
available. 

Warner -- you mentioned the SMTP server requires a login. I think if you
create a "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" acccount, Confluence will login and
email will work. Worth a try.


-Timo

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[jug-discussion] RE: Duffy Gillman on Natual Language Processing

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Next Meeting (Natural Langauge Processing and Learning 
> Algorithms) at the CCIT building on the UofA campus:
> Tuesday Duffy Gillman will be talking about Eric Brill's (http://
> research.microsoft.com/%7Ebrill/) Transformation Based 
> Learning Algorithm (TBL - 
> http://nlp.cs.jhu.edu/~rflorian/fntbl/tbl-toolkit/
> node3.html) as well as talking about other learning 
> algorithms time permitting.

Hey Duffy -- I know this is close to the wire, but if you're still
around can you give us a rough synopsis? 

A catchy hook like, "Want to add nifty FOO feature(s) to your next
app?!? Well, well, after this talk you'll understand how the secrets of
FOO can help you do BAR!!! 

(And yes, I do have beer on the brain. )

-Timo


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[jug-discussion] RE: Organization Discussion

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> If the JUG hooks me up with another contract like my current 
> one, I'll be happy to throw in a projector, too! :)
lol. :-)

> I haven't mentioned it because I'm lazy but I suspect I could 
> get us a room with projector and net via the UA CS department.
Good to know.

> Yes, the TCS does have a room, at  E. Grant.  It has 
> chairs, a projector and, I believe, a net connection.  You 
> can see a tiny picture of in the top banners at 
> http://aztcs.org/sigs/sigs.shtml.
> 
> Affiliating with the TCS as a SIG, assuming they'd have us, 
> would solve the meeting room problem, the dues-collection 
> problem, and the budget-committee problem.  Their dues are 
> $45/yr, $25/yr for students.  As a bonus, my cost for 
> attending Developer's SIG
> (http://devsig.editme.com/) meetings would be slashed in half! :) 

This might be good option. Martin Lapidus has attended several of our
JUG meetings (I think he's on this list too, right Martin?). 

We said that this group consists of mostly "professional developers" and
that we like the focus of talks to be fairly technical. 

So as a rule, we're all mostly geeks -- doing the "business" side of
running the organization is the part that's hard to get folks to do.

We could bring 20-30 members into the TCS, software licenses for
JiveSoftware Forums, Jira, and Confluence...and the brains to run the
stuff, even perhaps write some custom software. 

TJUG gets non-profit status, access to a building and projector, monthly
advertisement and announcement of the group, a MUCH bigger group of
"members" to entice corporate sponsorship/demos to the SIG, etc.


Bill -- do you know where they host the aztcs.org site? Perhaps we could
combine effort and resources? 

Of course -- I'm sure we'd have to give up some control so we'd also
want to understand/discuss how funds are allocated, officers elected,
etc.

Summary though -- maybe this is a really good way to get the "drudgery"
off our backs so we could focus more on the fun stuff like good topics
and creating online versions?

Tim
P.S. If you are interested in the idea of creating a preso to sell, I
may be interested in buying, so please contact me offlist at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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[jug-discussion] RE: online presentations

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

FYI -- MS Office 2003 has a free add-on called MS Producer that kind of
mashes Window MovieMaker and PowerPoint together to let you create a
preso with audio and/or video. It's buggy, but's something to look at if
you have Office.


Even if there's a tool -- you still need to get folks to create the
"premium content". 
What's in it for them? (besides fame and admiration from adoring geeks)
;-)


I'm curious how many folks would be more interested if they were
_selling_ a presentation? 'pop'...the sound of a dozen geeks ears
pricking up.  

Example: 
$250 for 60 mins preso, guaranteed even if only 5 people pay to watch
or 
$1 per paid view of the preso -- if 5 people watch you get $5, if 5000
watch you get $5000.

How much would you pay to watch a typical JUG-quality 60 min technical
preso (i.e. not necessarily a professional presenter, with a well-oiled
presentation)?
$1
$3
$5
$10
$25 
other?

How much for a No Fluff quality preso (ex. Dave Thomas on Ruby, Bruce
Tate on EJB -- with well-rehearsed material)?



-Timo


 

> -Original Message-
> From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:23 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Re: Organization & Hosting Solution
> 
> The RubyOnRails guys seems to have a pretty low-tech approach:
> 
> http://rubyonrails.org/screencasts
> 
> They use Snapz Pro X (http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/snapzprox/),
> which I guess is Mac only.
> 
> The point is, they just have a screen capture and audio of 
> the presenter talking.  This should be sufficient to at least 
> have something started, right?  If the presenter diligently 
> repeats any questions, keeps random audience conversation to 
> a minimum, and people can live without seeing any live video 
> of the presenter or audience, something like this just might 
> work, and wouldn't require any cameras or fancy sound stuff..
> 
> Anyone know of a non-Mac solution which does the same sort of thing? 
> Anyone want to volunteer to put it on their laptop and let me 
> use it for my presentation this month? :)  I don't have a Mac 
> and my laptop is so old I'm embarassed to take it out in public...
> 
> -- Chad
> 
> On 2/3/06, Steven Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 2/3/06 11:51, "Tim Colson (tcolson)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not saying it's impossible -- just pointing out that it isn't 
> > > simple.
> >
> >  I agree with Tim that you can make producing the content a huge 
> > effort.  I was thinking of something simpler, more of a:
> > record the audio of the presentation.
> > sync the audio with the powerpoint slides.
> > import the powerpoint to breeze.
> 
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RE: [jug-discussion] Re: Organization & Hosting Solution

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Can you please give a link for "Breeze"?  
http://www.google.com/search?q=breeze -> top of the list. 

Macromedia Breeze. 

> Also, if anyone 
> else knows any good free or cheap online video hosting 
> solutions (even if it's hosted on our servers) please pipe up.

Hosting for Breeze isn't free, but that's not as hard a nut to crack as
actually producing the content. 

Video camera. Screen sharing. Audio. Mic. Oh, and a human to create and
do the preso, while on video, with a mic, and sharing a screen, and
answering questions. 

Companies often have entire teams devoted to producing media like this. 

I'm not saying it's impossible -- just pointing out that it isn't
simple.

And for anyone who disagrees and thinks it is easy -- Great! Cool! Let
us know how you do it, and I truly look forward to watching your
presentation? Where is it? ;-)


Cheers,
Timo



> 
> On 2/3/06, Steven Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 2/3/06 09:24, "Tim Colson (tcolson)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would pay dues ($150+/yr), though, if in addition to a overhead 
> > projector there were a Breeze of the presentation or even something 
> > streamed (FLV, QuickTime, ...).  I really have been disappointed to 
> > have missed so many worthwhile presentations (and follow-up Q&As).  
> > Maybe a couple of JUGs (Tucson, Phoenix...et al) could combine for 
> > Breeze or a Breeze-type service and then any number of 
> really valuable 
> > resources could be made available and achived.
> 
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RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> org.tucson-jug.TimoIsBeingGeekyException
> at gillman.duffy.ReadEmail (ReadEmail.java:57) at 
> gillman.duffy.StareIdlyWhileDrinkingCoffee
> (StareIdlyWhileDrinkingCoffee.java:1044)
> at gillman.duffy.MorningRouting (MorningRouting:32) ... 39 more

Man, I feel so much -less- geeky now. ;-)

> Yes, I have previously felt a little awkward realizing that 
> if I don't show the TJUG becomes an exciting hallway 
> experience.  More than once I've been pulled in by conscience 
> alone (..."but Lifetime is running a Little House on the 
> Prarie marathon this Tuesday... *sigh*").  But what 
> alternatives do you have in mind?  I think we might be able 
> to get a meeting room at the UA Library with little or no 
> effort - but I don't imagine we'd get a fancy overhead 
> projector.  And think of that fabulous doorbell, Timo!  What 
> would replace the fabulous doorbell?

I have no alternatives in mind -- but it's something I think the group
should work out before you come down with a fever, go on vacation, want
to watch Laura Ingalls Wilder bale hay... or after 15 months of
meetings, you decide, "uh, folks, I just honestly don't want to come to
the meeting tonight, it's just Tim talking, and I'd rather pass."

And if we discuss and say, "gee...we can find a meeting room...but no
projector...hmm... do we 'need' a projector? Well, unless Nick is
presenting and we can huddle around his gigangtic Powerbook
screen...yep, we need a projector. Sooo...how much is a projector? Oh,
about $800. Hmm...we have no budget, so, "Hey Bill, could you donate
$800 so we can buy a projector?" 

Lol -- I'm starting to understand why the Tucson Computer Society folks
might have been "silly" about wanting all folks who attend meetings to
pay dues (even if they do give a preso). I believe TCS rents a building,
owns a projector, has furniture, and presumably incurs other expenses
too. 


Cheers,
-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Geez Timo, did we offend you?  First you dis our job 
> offering, now the "wear out the welcome" crack. ;)
Hmmm... that job email seems like it was a long time ago... I do vaguely
remember taking a jab at the description, which I think was fairly
boring and vague, eh? ;-)

The point, perhaps backhanded, was that AMO, Simon, and others were kind
enough month after month to provide a room, an overhead projector, and
somebody to lock the place up after we left. Duffy is doing that now at
UA...but unless I'm mistaken, he's a single point of failure in the
whole "where to meet for The Meeting" process. Seems like an unhandled
exception just waiting to throw a stack trace. (okay, that was a bit too
geeky for even me to write.)

> For the record, the JUG did not wear out the welcome at AMO, 
> we just kept converting the big conference rooms into office 
> space until there were no more conference rooms big enough 
> for the meetings.
Really, that's all? I could have sworn somebody gave me the finger the
last time we were there. Hmm, well, that might have just been Drew. ;-)

> Personally, though I rarely attend the meetings anymore, 
So, uh... rare == 0? Seriously, what can we do to convince you to drop
by some time? 

> I would be happy to pay annual dues to support the group and 
> the "option" of attending some awesome presentations.
I think everyone has violently agreed that the meetings should stay open
to anyone (even you Vince... as I recall, someone actually said the
words, "even Vince"... err...maybe that was me saying the words... hmm,
can't recall...)

> Another thing to consider is individual dues and corporate 
> dues.  Corporate dues would be more expensive, but would 
> entitle all employees of the corporation to attend member 
> only events and access to the "not quite free" stuff.
Indeed something to think about. Coming up with the list of "not quite
free" stuff is on the list of things to do. Food comes to mind, but if
folks aren't attending in Tucson, not so much of a benefit... same for
parties and beer. 

Begs the question -- what would convince folks it's worthwhile
supporting this group with cold hard cash? 

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Tim






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RE: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

The organization in William's story was certainly silly... but that was
perhaps a problem due to that groups silly rules. But at least they were
one step ahead us -- we have no ground rules at all. ;-)

The informal donations might cover hosting budget for a year or so, but
I think there is more to consider. 

Without dues, everyone/anyone is a member and can use the "free" server,
eat "free" food at meetings, and vote on issues. 

I don't know about others, but if I'm going to give money to a group, I
want a little more say in how it's spent than the freeloaders. ;-)

I'd also prefer dues so the group had a known budget - would make it
easier to plan for expenditures for hosting, holiday parties, food, or
to take a guest speaker out for drink, or buy them a thank you. 

I don't think it's fair to just rely on the few of us who usually attend
to pick up the tab for this kind of thing. And I don't believe the group
will grow if we have to always beg for handouts. 

We apparently wore out our welcome at Old Pueblo Traders -- and if the
same happens with Duffy and UA, then the group is homeless, budgetless,
and projectorless. 

I'd like to see the group think longer term and bigger than just our
next preso. 


Cheers,
Timo







 

> -Original Message-
> From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:29 AM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution
> 
> Why, we're just poor programmers!  You're not implying that 
> our time is worth more than our money are you???
> 
> But seriously, I agree entirely.  For something like 
> $18/month for hosting, the informal approach would be more 
> efficient than dues. 
> Popping for chips and coke to lure college students might be 
> another matter, though - but I'm not sure...
> 
> -- Chad
> 
> On 2/1/06, William H. Mitchell 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think it would be great if the various consultants, 
> contractors, and 
> > companies that have benefited from the JUG would simply 
> offer to step 
> > up and help fund reasonable expenses as they see fit.  Thus 
> my offer 
> > cover hosting for a year, assuming we have a webmaster 
> (that's the big 
> > contribution, of course).
> 
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[jug-discussion] Organization & Hosting Solution

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Cool, thanks for checking into that, Chad!

I'm +1 for rimuhosting...assuming we can get enough dues collected to
cover at least 12 months, preferably 24 months. 

Until we are a non-profit organization with a bank account... somebody
will have to personally handle the hosting/payment, eh?

I think we should figure out a bit more of the "organization" and
"business" stuff before we get the hosting solution and dues going.

Thoughts?


-Tim






> -Original Message-
> From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:08 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout
> 
> RimuHosting got back to me.  They will waive the setup fee 
> and give us a 10% discount, which works out to $18/month for 
> a linux VPS with full root access and choice of distro, 96MB 
> ram and 4 gig of disk:
> 
> http://rimuhosting.com/order/startorder.jsp
> 
> These guys have great support too, they are very helpful plus 
> have a bliki with lots of specific HOWTOs on setting stuff up:
> 
> http://bliki.rimuhosting.com/space/start
> 
> If anyone knows of a better deal that gives full root access, pipe up.
>  Lets get this moving...
> 
> P.S. As for hosting it on SourceForge as was suggested, I'd 
> personally rather have it hosted on something we have control 
> over - with a wiki, and with subversion, and anything else we 
> think up.
> 
> 
> On 1/30/06, Tim Colson (tcolson) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > It's been the time and coordination that has been difficult.
> >
> > Ex. Hardware. Stable OS. Access to the box. Setup of Java 
> SDK. Setup 
> > of
> 
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RE: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Duffy wrote:
> 1) ask Warner to add 'tomcat/bin/catalin.sh start' to 
> /etc/rc.local, or start and stop scripts to the /etc/rc*.d 
> directories, and
Thanks Duffy. I know what would need to be setup for start/stop
scripts...but there are other considerations too , like starting as root
so it could attach to port 80. Better still of course would be to setup
startup scripts and mod_jk connector to Apache (I've got all the configs
from the corporate setup.) 

> 2) make sure hsqldb is configured to write data to disk (it 
> does in-memory only if configured specifically NOT to write to disk)
Yeah, the default is writing out data into the confluence_home/database
dir.

> Otherwise, I know there was an attempt to configure MySQL on 
> that machine. 
> If someone wants to install it (is the distro .deb or .rpm 
> capable?) I can figure out how to init the Confluence tables 
> given an appropriate login.
MySQL is on the box, but I believe it's 4.0 -- which I personally had
many issues with that went away with 4.1. 

Confluence table init is automagic -- so long as there is a datasource
setup with a uid/pass, Confluence can take it from there after a bit of
change to the config file. 

The tricky bit really is getting folks to actually volunteer and
coordinate with the fact that this is still a production box for
Warner... really don't want to blow stuff up. ;-)

-Timo

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[jug-discussion] FW: [CONF-user] Help us spread the word about Codegeist

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

FYI -- individuals and teams can win gifts and prizes writing Confluence
plugins ($10,000 in cash and prizes).


Timo


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Jonathan Nolen
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:47 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [CONF-user] Help us spread the word about Codegeist
> 
> Help us spread the word about Atlassian Codegeist! While it 
> may slightly lower your odds of winning first prize, you'll 
> make up for it by having more new plugins that will make your 
> life easier in the future. Isn't that worth it?
> 
>http://www.atlassian.com/codegeist
> 
> If you are a member of any technical user-groups (JUGs, LUGs, 
> MUGs and the like) please mention the contest where it's 
> appropriate. And you can publicize the contest to your 
> co-workers, colleagues and fellow students with these flyers 
> we've posted. Print them out and tack them on your cube, the 
> department bulletin board, or in the loo (the ultimate 
> captive audience.)
> 
> There's also a logo, if you want to mention the contest on 
> your blog.  
> (All you kids today have blogs, right?) A quick pointer back 
> to the Codegeist home page would be huge.
> 
>http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CODEGEIST/Flyer
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Cheers,
> Jonathan and the Atlassian Team
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jonathan Nolen
> Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web : http://www.atlassian.com
> AIM : JonathanNolen
> Cell: 805.895.2794
> 

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RE: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Sorry Confluence is hard to set up. 
Doh... I didn't mean to give that impression... it is *not* hard to
setup Confluence...

It's been the time and coordination that has been difficult. 

Ex. Hardware. Stable OS. Access to the box. Setup of Java SDK. Setup of
MySQL 4.1 or above. (Not specifically req'd and right now I'm using the
two-click install w/ HSQLDB, but for a robust integration between
Jira/Confluence and leveraging user accounts across both -- an external
DB like MySQL is req'd.)


-Tim



> Trac is pretty easy to 
> set up, and can use SQLite db (single file repo) which is 
> really easy to set up too.
> 
> The nice thing about trac's subversion integration is the 
> timeline and wikiword references to artifacts and revisions, 
> as well as repository browsing.  Those would be interesting 
> and useful for a project where you are reviewing, comparing, 
> and commenting on other peoples code.  I don't think Jira does that.
> 
> As far as the user-mode account that won't survive reboots, 
> that doesn't sound too good.  Seems like we really need to 
> find some other box to host our stuff rather than Warner's, 
> where we can have full access (or at least have sudo to 
> manage the startup and web server).
> 
> As you duly noted in the notes, RimuHosting gives a full root 
> access VPN for $20/month.  I'll fire off a note to them now 
> to see if they will give us a deal...
> 
> -- Chad
> 
> On 1/30/06, Tim Colson (tcolson) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I woke up on the pessimistic side of the bed today... so I 
> apologize 
> > if this sounds curt... but here goes... ;-)
> >
> > I obtained free "non-profit" licenses for Atlassian.com's 
> Confluence, 
> > Jira and JiveSoftware Forums...oh, about 18 months ago. It's taken 
> > this long just to get enough time and coordination to get 
> Confluence running.
> > (And it's only barely installed, running standalone using 
> HSQLDB in a 
> > user-account and won't survive machine reboots.)
> >
> > I think it'd be overly optimistic to think Trac will 
> magically appear 
> > on the tjug machine. ;-)
> >
> > FYI -- Confluence integrates with Jira (issue tracker) and Jira can 
> > integrate with SVN 
> > 
> http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA+Subversion+plugin
> 
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[jug-discussion] URL Rewrite filter

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I could probably give a 15 min talk on this...but the quick summary is
that Url Rewrite is a simple and extremely versatile tool!

More details here on a wiki page :-)

http://www.tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/URL+Rewrite

-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I woke up on the pessimistic side of the bed today... so I apologize if
this sounds curt... but here goes... ;-)

I obtained free "non-profit" licenses for Atlassian.com's Confluence,
Jira and JiveSoftware Forums...oh, about 18 months ago. It's taken this
long just to get enough time and coordination to get Confluence running.
(And it's only barely installed, running standalone using HSQLDB in a
user-account and won't survive machine reboots.)

I think it'd be overly optimistic to think Trac will magically appear on
the tjug machine. ;-)

FYI -- Confluence integrates with Jira (issue tracker) and Jira can
integrate with SVN
http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRAEXT/JIRA+Subversion+plugin 


Anyway -- I posted the notes I took and opened up the Confluence install
to anonymous users to view:
http://www.tucson-jug.org:8080/display/TJUG/Jan+2006+Meeting+Notes


Cheers,
Tim

> -Original Message-
> From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:54 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] scripting language shootout
> 
> Is this a wiki that it integrated with an SCM, similar to 
> Trac (http://www.edgewall.com/trac/)?  I think that would be 
> more appropriate for a small, code-centric project such as this.
> 
> I looked for about 1 minute to see if Confluence appears to 
> have any SCM integration, but I didn't see it here:
> http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/features/integration.jsp
> 
> I'd vote for setting up a Trac site and SVN repo dedicated to 
> this shootout activity and use subversion, if only because 
> Trac and subversion are really cool and good to know.
> 
> Also, how about those meeting minutes from the last meeting?  
> There was definitely some important discussion regarding the 
> future of the group that should be shared on the list.  Can 
> we just publish them in their raw glory, or with just some 
> minimal expletive censoring?
> 
> -- Chad
> 
> On 1/27/06, Warner Onstine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Once I get the wiki setup (sorry, should have it done this 
> weekend), 
> > we can do it there.
> >
> > -warner
> >
> > On Jan 27, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Chad Woolley wrote:
> >
> > > Sounds interesting.  Is there some 
> confluence/trac/scm/wiki-ish sort 
> > > of thing that is set up so we could do all the specs and coding 
> > > publicly (or with visibility to all jug members)?
> > >
> > > -- Chad
> > >
> > > On 1/26/06, Warner Onstine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> Ok, I know that we've talked about this before, but I 
> really would 
> > >> like to make this one a reality as I just think it's a 
> lot of fun.
> > >>
> > >> Here's what I'm thinking about:
> > >> 1) Define something with a little spice to it to 
> accomplish - say 
> > >> connect to a db through a command-line application, 
> retrieve a set 
> > >> of data, allow the user to select a record and return 
> just that record.
> > >> 2) Any scripting language is fair game (perl, ruby, 
> python, jython, 
> > >> beanshell, groovy, etc.)
> > >> 3) briefly go through the code to show what's involved with each 
> > >> one
> > >> 4) Speed tests! (I think we'll need judges on this one!)
> > >>
> > >> We have plenty of presenters lined up for a while (I 
> believe) so we 
> > >> can line up anyone who's interested in participating in this and 
> > >> plan it for a future preso. Whose interested?
> > >>
> > >> (I'll take Groovy and maybe Ruby if noone else does).
> > >>
> > >> -warner
> > >>
> > >> 
> ---
> > >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > 
> 
> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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RE: [jug-discussion] JMS

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Well, this would fall into something besides a code sprint 
> sprint refers to actually implementing functionality for a 
> specific project rather than just to learn something.

Geez, sue me for semantics. ;-)

"a two-day or three-day focused development session, in which developers
pair off together in a room and focus on building a particular
subsystem."

Okay, so I'm suggesting something shorter than a sprint... more like a
3-4 hour "warmup jog". ;-)

And as for a specific project...well, all it needs is a kewl name and my
one line req't description becomes a project. ;-)

Ergo -- I propose we create "JGossip" -- a java client that smells like
an RSS feed reader/poster app...but uses JMS in the backend so it is way
way way more scaleable than any silly "firehose of previously grabbed
data" XML RSS Feed. 

So who's down with that?

Timo
P.S. The advatnage of doing this at the Colson Casa is that I can
provide 6Mbps of WiFi, several comfy places to sit, a friendly dog
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/timcolson/), and the most important thing
--> beer. ;-)



> Besides that, these little learning sessions are definitely a 
> good idea (we could dredge up the original name that you 
> coined Colson Coding, or was it Colson Casa Coding?).
> 
> In short, I'd definitely be interested in digging into JMS, 
> it's been awhile since I've done anything with it (I did some 
> contract work for Andy on the IBM mq seriies stuff and some 
> work on OpenJMS way back when).
> 
> -warner
> 
> On Jan 5, 2006, at 12:56 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone worked with the ActiveMQ JMS server?
> > http://www.activemq.org/
> >
> > Would anyone be interested in a code sprint to create a 
> java "gossip"
> > client that sends notes to JMS topics and listens for responses?
> >
> > (Okay, so this sounds a bit like RSS... but JMS seems 
> perhaps like a 
> > better way to do subscriptions, no?)
> >
> > Further thought... howabout a JMS server that has a client MDB that 
> > listens to a "big feed", "filters" the postings based on user-prefs 
> > (articles with '32" TV' in them), and then posts the cream 
> of the crop 
> > into a "personal" JMS queue that their Java client listens to.
> >
> > -Timo
> >
> > 
> -
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> >
> 
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[jug-discussion] JMS

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Has anyone worked with the ActiveMQ JMS server?
http://www.activemq.org/

Would anyone be interested in a code sprint to create a java "gossip"
client that sends notes to JMS topics and listens for responses?

(Okay, so this sounds a bit like RSS... but JMS seems perhaps like a
better way to do subscriptions, no?)

Further thought... howabout a JMS server that has a client MDB that
listens to a "big feed", "filters" the postings based on user-prefs
(articles with '32" TV' in them), and then posts the cream of the crop
into a "personal" JMS queue that their Java client listens to. 

-Timo

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[jug-discussion] Code Sprint thingy?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey - so what's the 
current status on the code get-together? 
Is it this weekend, 
or did I miss it?
 
Cheers,
Tim

RE: [jug-discussion] Meeting in December

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

>   Casa Vicente both rock (though C. 
Vicente may be a madhouse - 
>   a large group ordering 
tapas from a restaurant  
>  with por service... 
but man, the food is awesome).  
I am spoiled, no doubt, by the tapas we had in Barcelona... 
but yeah, the Casa Vicente service was really slow, we liked about half the 
dishes, and the price wasn't exactly a "ganga" 
;-)
 
-Timo
 
 
 
 

RE: [jug-discussion] Positions in Phoenix!

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

>Unless everyone wants to change this, 
> which I'm fine with, I just don't want 
> to clutter the list with job postings.
FWIW - job postings on the main list don't bother me.

Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Meeting in December

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I'll be out in San Jose that week. Bummer.

Timo 

-Original Message-
From: Warner Onstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 10:10 AM
To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Meeting in December

They all sound good to me, but I'm going to vote for Cuvee. At least I
will be attending (unfortunately Danielle will be working Tuesday).

-warner

On Nov 16, 2005, at 9:14 AM, TR wrote:

> Lets make the December meeting a christmas get together.
>
> First we need to know where,  Places brought up at meeting were
>
> Cushing St 198 W. Cushing
> Cuvee  3352 E. Speedway
> Caruso's ,  434 N 4th Ave
> Cup Cafe   311 E. Congress
> Casa Vicente  375 S. Stone
>   ( Boy you'd think we only had the the C page of the restaurant 
> section )
> Other suggestions welcome but time is limited.The date would be  
> the same as our regular meeting Dec 13.   Also need to get head  
> count of those who plan to attend.
>
> RSVP
> TR
>
>
>
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RE: [jug-discussion] [11/8] Meeting Tuesday

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

So -- how'd it go?

I didn't show up because I've been sick the past week, and on top of
that I had to migrate three apps and two app servers on Wednesday
starting at 6AM. It's been a long week.

What's on the plan?

Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] JUG code sprint

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Some of this functionality might be easier to add as an 
> extension of the Confluence wiki.
Another thought, some functions might be easy enough to just use the
wiki directly -- no need for a "tool".

Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] JUG code sprint

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Sounds like fun...

> What will we be coding?
> - An events calendar (using some code donated by Andy as the base)
> - A membership sign-up form
> - A membership directory
> - Presentation archival tool

Some of this functionality might be easier to add as an extension of the
Confluence wiki.

Ex: calendar macro here that is open and could be extended:
http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CONFEXT/Basic+Calendar+Macro

There are always lots of ways to do anything, so I'm not saying this is
"the" way, but it might be a great starting point to leverage. 

http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CONFEXT

Docs on developing plugins and macros:
http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Confluence+Development+Hub


> Plus some sysadmin type things:
> - Integrate a blog
Not sure what you mean by "integrate" -- but Confluence has blogging
functionality built-in. The new 1.5 version will have a custom RSS feed
creator that can grab content that is "labelled" to your liking. 

> - Setup the Wiki
> - Setup the bug-tracking system
Obviously, I'm interested in getting Jira/Confluence installed... but
our schedules haven't meshed. So maybe this date will work out great.
:-)

> Oct. 29th
> Nov. 5th
> Nov. 12th

I'll be out of town on the Oct date, so the 5th or 12th would be better
for me.


Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Well, shame on you for hiding requirements details 
Well, then equally shame on you for jumping to a solution without asking
more questions to better understand what might be appropriate. ;-)

> And if you find that your available tools don't fit, 
> find and learn one that does.  

That's the real crux of the discussion -- with so many tool options, not
all of them in our own personal kits -- need some criteria for making a
suggestion. 

I don't want to get in a shell/perl rut just because I personally don't
have time to learn and compare -every- possible alternative. 

Originally I started the subject as just "Jython - when useful?" But the
list of options started to grow... I'm still keenly interested though in
why/when some of the other options would be apropos. 
 
> I've lost count of how useful it has been to have learned Poscript.  
lol. I was using the "Red and Green" PostScript books about the time my
developer colleague was born. ;-)

-Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Groovy would be a decent solution I suspect, but wouldn't you 
> need to  layer in HttpClient or something like that to get decent HTTP

> facilities?
Yeah, but in fairness - both ruby and perl need HTTP libraries too. And
Commons HTTP Client has a nicely documented API. 

Oddly, 5 seconds ago on the urbancode anthill list, somebody just sent a
link to the beanshell manual (I believe they integrated bsh into
Anthill)
http://www.beanshell.org/manual/bshmanual.html

For somebody with primarily a Java background...it might be an
interesting option.
 

> Ant could do it, but you'd have to have Java, Ant, and to get 
> looping  you'd want ant-contrib as well :)  
I wondered about the looping...and I certainly don't want to start
debating the readability of the build.xml files... I think we've all
been there before. 


Looks fun almost a little disorienting without the pointy brackets


Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey folks -- 

Again, I'm really not looking for the concrete solution, more interested
in discussion of "why" folks would choose different approaches. More
pyschology than computer science ;-)

I could write something in perl. EriK, god that he is, can do perl or
ruby or probably a dozen other langs, and of couse ant too (hmmm, wonder
why he didn't mention that option ;-)
Jim and Duffy and Robert obviously prefer a 'Nix shell, based on their
understanding of the req'ts which were intentially sketchy and didn't
note that the platform must run on WinXP without Cygwin. ;-) 

> Of course, as pointed out, it all depends on what you're comfortable
with.

I think Robert sums it up there -- seems "familiarity" is the main
motivator for tool selection -- after ruling things out based on req'ts.
(ex. scp goes out the window if ONLY http access allowed. wget -m falls
down, I think, if the http directory isn't browseable)

The interesting discussion (no right/wrong here) is what to recommend
for a developer who doesn't already have a tool familiarity to fall back
on.

I could recommend Perl, but I don't know for sure that something I don't
know about (ex. beanshell) might not be a better option for somebody
without my specific background.

I'm trying to think outside of my own world here... but I think we've
seen that it's hard to compare, especially when qualities like "more
readable" are subjective and variable depending on recent experience.
(the SH scripting is fresh in my mind, but in 6 months, who knows how
much retention I'll have of that -- and ruby might be more familiar by
then)

TR made a great point by saying he'd recommend something he's willing to
teach. That makes perfect sense (and also is a logical reason that the
"familiar" lives on.)

> [Duffy] Ok, so barring that, I think this seems a perfect use 
> of a scripting language - either perl or any of the various *sh
variants.  
> In terms of professional development I'd say everyone 
> should have some scripting language under their belt.  
> ... send a Perl book... or a printout of 'man bash' 

With all the recent hype around Java & scripting... it's interesting
that most of the suggestions seem to fall back to Perl/Sh -- nobody has
suggested something like Groovy or beanshell. 


-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> At least I can spell your name correctly :))
Heh heh, well, mine -is- easier to spell of course. 
Sorry about that. :-)

> This beautiful blog entry sums up my take on readability quite a bit:
>  
Hmm... readable means more than percentage of squiggly chars to me. Perl
gets more and less readable the more or less I work with it over the
last 2-3 months. Recent experience with any lang taints my perspective
slightly.

Although "weird" idiomatic things in Perl that I know about an
understand like $_ and $self->bless() --always-- look funny to me.


> So in this particular case, the readability is not much different.   
> Ruby and Perl have a lot of commonalities - I just find Ruby much  
> more pleasing to the eye personally.  And I wouldn't hesitate to  
> recommend a simple Ruby script to someone over a Perl one.  Flame on!

That commonality is another reason why it's hard for me to unbiasedly
give somebody advice on what to use. When I look at Ruby, I see things
that are perl-esque and therefore familiar like the "unless" and the if
clause at the end of a line instead of the forefront like java expects. 

It's hard, actually impossible, to not have my background cloud my
perception of "easy to read".

Dave Thomas said so many times in his talk about how "Ruby just makes
more sense." I wanted to scream because ruby and perl would both lose to
"english" if I gave them to my Mom (who hasn't written a book on Ruby,
and lived with it for the past two years) and asked her which was more
"readable". 

Let me turn the question on it's side a bit... assume your main
experience is with Java -- then what solution would that person likely
grok quicker and be able to do what EriK and I (both "Recovering" Perl
Users) have shown in ruby/perl? My guess is that -both- of our solutions
would be strange to somebody who hasn't ever used a perl/ruby
interpreter. 


Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Well, I'm not 100% clear on what's wanted, but could what he 
> needs be done using wget?

As described, the situation is grabbing 365 log files, stored in
/MM/file_MMDD.log directories on an HTTP server. 

The question here is not to obtain a concrete solution -- but to talk
about approaches and reasons for them. I'm curiuos to see somebody tell
me -why- they might use Jython or Beanshell, or whatever to do this...
beyond, "because I know how to use Jython, it's kewl!"

wget would be part of a shell script approach, eh? Reasonable approach,
why would -you- pick it though over the multitude of other Ways to Skin
this Cat? 

I personally suck at writing shell scripts because I never had to learn
how  :-)

So I'd be the guy compiling and then using Perl rather than trying to
learn how to get for loops in a shell script to work to grab all the
days in each month competent shell scripters would probably laugh at
me, and I'm okay with that. ;-)


Timo


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RE: [jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> [Eric would] use Ruby, personally.  It'd be much more readable than
the  
> equivalent Perl variant, almost for sure.  The readability factors  
> into the maintainability too.

Let me break that down a bit...

Can we assume you, Eric, have the experience to write either a perl or
ruby script?

So the choice of Ruby was because you believe that would be more
readable than a perl equivalent, not due... maybe because of more
familiarity with Ruby and less with Perl?

I'm trying to put that gingerly...because, well, my equivelant of your
script looks "readable" to me, because I know more Perl than Ruby. :-)


-Timo

# Leverage the LWP Useragent lib 
# http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/libwww-perl-5.803/lib/LWP/UserAgent.pm

 require LWP::UserAgent;
  
 my $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new;

 # agent automagically handles 7 redirects by default, but we'll
increase to 10
 $ua->max_redirect(10) 

 my $url = "http://www.somewhere.com/logs/logfile.txt";;

 my $response = $ua->get($url);
 
 if ($response->is_success) {
 print $response->content;  
 }
 else {
 die $response->status_line;
 }


> One way would be to leverage the Net::HTTP library:
>  
> 
> I use it to fetch a string from an HTTP response this way:
> 
>   # Fetch method copied from PickAxe, p. 700
>  def fetch(uri_str, limit=10)
> fail 'http redirect too deep' if limit.zero?
> 
> response = Net::HTTP.get_response(URI.parse(uri_str))
> 
> case response
>when Net::HTTPSuccess
>   response
>when Net::HTTPRedirection
>   fetch(response['location'], limit - 1)
>else
>   response.error!
> end
>  end
> 
> fetch("http://www.ruby-lang.org";) # for example, which would follow  
> the redirect to /en
> 
> To pull binary content, you'll have to use the API slightly  
> differently, but it'll still be pretty trivial.

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[jug-discussion] Why Jython, or Jelly, or Groovy, or Beanshell or ... instead of perl, or sh script?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I suspect a subject line with the P-word in it will at least hook folks
into reading this... ;-)

Problem: developer has access to a website with tar/gzipped log
files...archived into folders by year 2005/ and month 01/ 02/ and then
the filename has a date in it too - daily.

He complains, "Wh! I need more than one file, so without SCP access,
I have to click click click... Whaaa!"

I say, "Shut up and write a 3 line script to automate the HTTP call...
and leave me alone."
(I can only imagine what he's thinking about my parentage after that IM.
;-)

But this begs a question for the group here... if he asks, "What are the
three lines?" and I decide to do all his freakin' work for him... then,
I'd write a little perl script because I've done this in Perl at least a
dozen times in my life so it's familiar. I wouldn't grab java because
although commons has an http client that's slick, I'd also have to write
files and I suck at that in java.  

But if I make the developer learn how to fish... well, perl might not be
apropos given his skillset (i.e. no perl), so I don't know what would be
best to suggest to him.


So if you were doing this task, how would you approach it? What tool
would you use? And more importantly, why?

-Timo
P.S. there are no bonus points for "out of the box" approaches like,
"change the server logging setup" or "attach a drive share", etc. The
point is to focus on the HTTP task and how to do that.

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RE: [jug-discussion] Meeting tonight - Howard Lewis Ship, creator of Tapestry and HiveMind

[Tim Colson (tcolson)]

Woot!

I'm looking forward to tonight! (And not just for the beer this time!
)


Cheers,
Timo
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Warner Onstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 10:13 AM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [jug-discussion] Meeting tonight - Howard Lewis 
> Ship, creator of Tapestry and HiveMind
> 
> Tonight we are very lucky to have a special guest, Howard Lewis Ship  
> - creator of Tapestry and HiveMind, joining us for our monthly JUG  
> meeting. He will be talking about Tapestry 4 and HiveMind.
> 
> As usual our meeting begins at 6:30 for meet and greet, and then  
> continues at 7 with any JUG business, and then will conclude with  
> Howard's talk and Q&A to follow at Gentle Ben's on University, east  
> of Euclid.
> 
> Our meeting is now held at the CCIT building on campus, which 
> is just  
> off of 1st Street and Highland on the UofA campus. The best place to  
> park is just east of Highland on Vine. Since 1st is a one-way street  
> the best way to come in is either off of Cherry (from Speedway) or  
> off of Campbell (heading southbound). Make a right onto 1st from  
> Cherry and then make your first right (I believe). Park near 
> the west  
> end of the lot and there is an exit in the southwest corner that you  
> can use to cross the bike path and over to the CCIT building (3 or 4  
> story structure on Speedway). Once in CCIT follow the signs or go up  
> to the third floor and head to the other side of the building 
> to room  
> 337.
> 
> Maps can be found on the JUG home page - http://www.tucson-jug.org
> 
> I know that this is short notice, but I sincerely hope that you all  
> will be able to make it to the meeting tonight, it promises to be fun!
> 
> -warner
> 
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[jug-discussion] RE: Streaming preso

[Tim Colson (tcolson)]

> Say... somebody could, y'know... try streaming the preso or 
> something... ;)

Hey Robert -

Duffy and I were talking about setting up Macromedia Breeze (borrowed
use of the University license). It most likely isn't feasable to do for
this month, but I do hope to followup and look into it for future
meetings. 

But who knows, maybe if I show up early today, Duffy will be around and
have time to try an "alpha" test. 

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] meeting tomorrow

[Tim Colson (tcolson)]

> I am currently in talks with Howard right now to do either a short  
> Tapestry or HiveMind preso tomorrow evening. I'm personally  
> interested in HiveMind (http://jakarta.apache.org/hivemind , an  
> Inversion of Control container). What about everyone else?

Sure, it would be interesting to hear a comparison between Spring and
Hivemind...and hear his theories on how Spring got so damn popular
instead of the other IoC containers. :-)

And in deference to Mr. Z, another quick dose of Tapestry couldn't hurt.


(Latest project I've got is using SpringMVC and Velocity.)

> I have also fixed the mail archive.
Thanks dude!

And of course...there is always beer. 


Cheers,
-Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Promotion of new JUG mascot

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

I now know, without a doubt, that we live in a wacky town. 

We have Trogons, which aren't fictional characters that read poetry,
mind you...and we talk about them on java mailing lists more than java
itself. 

Interesting banter, yes... but still... Wacky. ;-)

-Timo


  

> -Original Message-
> From: Cara [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:32 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Promotion of new JUG mascot
> 
> Here's an idea ... but, if I'm boring the non-birders on the list,
> just tell me.
> 
> Southern Arizona rocks when it comes to birding. We share a bird with
> Java ... the Trogon. Seriously, this is an awesome bird and our great
> birding area should give the Tucson JUG the right to pick our own darn
> bird (and one that isn't a lowly finch and rice paddy pest!).
> 
> Java has the blue-tailed trogon and the orange-breasted trogon. We
> could just stretch things a bit and use our elegant trogon.
> 

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RE: [jug-discussion] Desert Southwest Java Software Symposium

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Thanks Jay, for sending out reminder spam...err, I mean email! :-)

Fortunately, this year I'm actually going to be in town and able to go! 
So I signed up about 15 minutes ago. 

Any other TJug'ers going?

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] it's been fun...

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Heh heh -- well, don't think of it as "leaving"...think of it as
"remoting" ;-)

On that topic -- just last week I helped pull video from a DV camera --
damn simple. A simple conversion to something streamable seems doable.
Makes me wonder if the folks at Macromedia have a "dirt cheap" offering
of Breeze for non-profits... perhaps then we could virtualize and
leverage speakers in Tucson, Phoenix, and elsewhere? Think of it as No
Fluff Just Stuff "On Tour". ;-)

Of course, we'd need good people like Robert to step up and volunteer to
give  presentations. :-)

Cheers,
Timo

> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Zeigler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:29 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: [jug-discussion] it's been fun...
> 
> Well gang, sorry to say I won't be able to make Warner's mangling. ;)
> Actually, I wanted to write and say thanks for the good times, great
> presentations, and letting me get up a time or two to make a fool of
> myself. ;) Tomorrow I'll be packing up a truck and moving to Missouri
> for grad school (computational biology). Thanks again for everything,
> it's been fun. :)
> 
> Robert Zeigler
> 
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[jug-discussion] June Mtg and beyond?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Are there any speakers/topics for the meetings for June, July, etc?

Tim

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[jug-discussion] Group direction & ideas

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey gang -

Last month the in-person group was rather small. TR gave a good talk on
running Java from Oracle. We all know the group number varies...and some
times of the year or particular topics/speakers bring in a lot more
folks than others.

And there is also have a large 'virtual' contingent on the list... so
obviously speakers aren't a big draw for those folks right now.

I've been attending for a few years now, and I'd like to see TJUG evolve
and grow a bit. I'd love to have more people interested in attending the
meetings, and participating on the mailing list. 

I'm interested in all sorts of presentations topics from code to html
design to css to the Dark Side to C# to home theatre to animation to
decorated 2d graphic buttons. :-) 

More people -- I think, will help get more topics, more discussion, and
more beer. :-)

But how to do that? 
What interests other folks? 
What will entice you to meetings?
What will convince you to bring a friend? 
What thoughts and ideas do folks have?
What can you do to help?


-Timo


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[jug-discussion] Ajax example @ Amazon

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Interesting stuff they managed to do here for product selection. 

There's gotta be AJAX under the covers...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/finder/102-8300467-2476111?productGroupI
D=loose_diamonds

Weird thing is why after all that work to stay client side...the
"results" grid has server-side sorting of the data. :-)

Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Ajax, Laszlo, Flex

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Another couple good Ajax links...

Pretty diagrams here:
http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php

Dude here responds to folks who think Ajax sucks...
http://www.ajaxian.com/archives/2005/03/ease_of_deploym.html

(BTW - don't get me wrong, I do think ajax and gmail are good stuff...
I'd like to see a lot more of that applied to the overwhelming majority
of brain dead designed web apps. But I also believe that One Size Does
Not Fit All...and always try to pick the best for the job at hand.)

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RE: [jug-discussion] Ajax, Laszlo, Flex

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> You could do the same admittedly with 
> Lazslo or Flex, but you're going to be outputting XML from 
> them anyways  (in most cases).

The backend can be any framework, but the paradigm is so different as to
make the backend controllers not always 100% applicable. 

XML is probably the least efficient, at least for Flex where connections
using Macromedia's proprietary wire protocol for essentially making
remote procedure calls are faster and (sometimes) easier.

RE: comparing the three... some comparisons/contrasts could be explored
without writing code. 

For example -- since both Flex and Lazlos run in the "FlashVM", they
gain the ability to work in any browser, on any platform, with identical
functionality. They both gain a bucket of re-usable widgets. 

Ajax does not seem, to me, like the actual 3rd category -- technically,
AJAX describes a communication via XML over an inline HTTP call via
javascript. 

In the more colloquial sense -- Ajax is starting to mean "like GMAIL"
-- a partially dynamic webapp. 
(Please, no flames for the word "partially" -- just distinguishing it
from a fully dynamic desktop app from a DHTML+Javascript+XMLrequest
chimera.)

So the comparison between the three becomes "how does the user
experience compare?" and "how does the developer experience compare?"

Since the group can apparently discuss which local bookstores suck less
than others for a good bit -- I'm certain we could discuss both of the
above for months. 

Here -- I'll lob one opinion into the fray, "Gmail is a HUGE step
forward! But, well, HTML/DTHML was three GIANT steps backward from a
typical GUI client app... so you do the accounting." ;-)

Tim
P.S. Oh how I miss the "Computer Literacy" bookstore in San Jose which
had 99% technical books...in numbers too high for even William to count,
and even included copies of books that weren't published yet (big fat
stack of 8x11 paper comps of what was coming soon). ;-)

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RE: [jug-discussion] for cactus locking lib jars

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Anyway, this taskdef
> locks the jars in the classpath used to run the cactus unit tests. As
> a result, my other targets (like my pull from cvs) will fail because
> these *.jar files in my lib dir cannot be deleted. Has anyone had this
> problem before? and found an elegant work around?
I have that problem regularly on our build server...

I have a task that spawns an scp (secure copy) which goes over our
WAN... and sometimes it hangs. When that happens, it leaves a java.exe
process running which has an open filehandle. Windows doesn't let you
change the file or directory.

The only workaround I've come up with is to go into the Task Manager and
kill the process. :-(



> PS Hi everyone. I've been on the list for awhile, 
Welcome. Hope to see you at a meeting. :-)

> Tucson is a fun and beautiful place so far. How bloody hot will
> it get?
Well, let's just say if you can't stand the heat, get out of the
kitchen... which for my mother-in-law translates to taking several trips
in the summer up to Flagstaff. Elevation is a Good Thing(tm). 

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] Google Insider

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Thanks Vince --

Interesting site, at first glance, a bit more effort than I'd prefer --
I'm lazy. ;-) 

I really like the Google maps stuff, especially that I can type "4755 N
Oracle Rd, Tucson, AZ" all in one line and not have to take the time to
pick fields. Computers are smart, they can figure that string out. ;-)

I want the same "super simple UI" so I could paste in addresses, perhaps
delimited by semicolons... have them plotted. Click on "Get Directions"
and it routes from A-B-C. Click "Round Trip" and it plots A-B-C-A. Then
use Edit-in-place DHTML voodoo (linke below) to allow me to drag/drop to
create a rout efrom A-C-B-A.

http://tool-man.org/examples/edit-in-place.html

THAT would rock. ;-)

And even better...you specify the starting point and it figures out the
shortest route to all the spots. (Sales folks would dig that.)



Timo


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 2:04 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Google Insider
> 
> Try www.randmcnally.com.  Use the trip planner and you can 
> add all kinds of stops and get detailed driving directions and maps.
> 

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[jug-discussion] Google Insider

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Say Nick -

  After you become a Google Insider...maybe you can figure out if the
Maps engine  http://maps.google.com/ can be asked to map multiple
locations? ;-)

We already know that doing a "local search" will plot multiple found
locations... but I want to provide the list of locations...and then ask
it to give me directions from point A to C to B.

And while you're at it, I want a web-service so I can tie into it.


I'm betting other JUG'rs might be interested in that too. 

BTW -- the folks at Google rock. :-)

Cheers,
Timo

 

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RE: [jug-discussion] "Simple" Spring question

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Chad -
 Hmmm... here's an idea... no guarantees it will make any sense because
it's early in the morning (well, not 2:44AM early...but I digress)...

Instead of using the Spring "Property Configurator"... I inject my own
"MultiplePropertyConfigurer" which is property loader that can do more
tricks than the standard beast using static lookups from my
"Configuration" class.

So here is the idea... do something similar, wrap the existing
PropConfigurator and check for a special "versionNumber" lookup key
then deal with that differently. "Differently" meaning something like
loading the file from the classpath and returning the entire content as
the value.

Your milieage may vary, I make no guarantees, my wrist is not broken,
but what I've typed above may still be crap. 

Cheers,
Timo



package com.foo.bleck;

import
org.springframework.beans.factory.config.PropertyPlaceholderConfigurer;
import org.apache.commons.logging.Log;
import org.apache.commons.logging.LogFactory;

import java.util.Properties;

/**
 * Attempt to provide files for multiple environments using only one
properties file.
 *
 * foo=default_value
 * lcl.foo=local_value
 * dev.foo=dev_value
 * 
 */
public class MultiPropertyConfigurer extends
PropertyPlaceholderConfigurer{
public static Log log = LogFactory.getLog("MPC");

protected String resolvePlaceholder(String s, Properties properties)
{

String prop = Configuration.getProperty(s);
String ppc_prop = null;
// If we cannot find it, try the parent.
if (null == prop) {
ppc_prop = super.resolvePlaceholder(s,properties);
}

String val = (prop != null) ? prop : ppc_prop;
//log.info("MPC:"+s+"="+val + " ppc_prop="+ ppc_prop );

return (val != null) ? val : ppc_prop;
}
}


 

> -Original Message-
> From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 2:44 AM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] "Simple" Spring question
> 
> Thomas Hicks wrote:
> 
> > I suspect you already know that *if* the file was in Java 
> Properties 
> > (i.e. key=value) format
> > that you could have Spring inject the value directly into 
> your bean, as 
> > illustrated below
> > where I am assuming that the file 'AntHillPro.properties' 
> contains a 
> > line like:
> >  anthillpro.version=5.6
> 
> I had thought of that.  Anthill will increment the last 
> parsable number 
> in the file and ignore everything else, so it would definitely work. 
> However, I did want to avoid having the specialize the format of the 
> file and add extra stuff other than just the number, because 
> the number 
> in it is used for other purposes (building artifact ids, for example).
> 
> I guess I could post-process it somehow to add the extra stuff after 
> reading it, or remove it when used for other purposes, but 
> that starts 
> getting complicated again.
> 
> -- Chad
> 
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[jug-discussion] April Presos

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey gang -
I just wanted to say thanks again to Ray and Robert for the preso's
tonight, and Duffy for getting us access to the bldg/room. I'm
inspired... I now want to build a multi-user server with two threads
that has "purdy" buttons. :-)

Some interesting code snippets to gaze upon:

http://javaalmanac.com/egs/java.nio/pkg.html

http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/09/01/nio.html


Cheers,
Timo

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[jug-discussion] mod_jk config and logging reduction?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey gang -
  I'm trying to cut down on the chatter of a mod_jk log... looking for
ideas.  My apache httpd.conf and a snippet of the log is below. Also, I
tried to find info on using CRONOLOG to rotate the log, but my Google
results seemed to indicate that mod_jk won't work with pipes.

Thanks,
Tim

# Load mod_jk module
# Update this path to match your modules location
LoadModulejk_module  modules/mod_jk.so

# Where to find workers.properties
# Update this path to match your conf directory location (put
workers.properties next to httpd.conf)
JkWorkersFile conf/workers.properties
# Where to put jk logs
# Update this path to match your logs directory location (put mod_jk.log
next to access_log)
JkLogFile logs/errors_mod_jk.log
# Set the jk log level [debug/error/info]
JkLogLevelerror
# Select the log format
JkLogStampFormat "[%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y] "
# JkOptions indicate to send SSL KEY SIZE, 
JkOptions +ForwardKeySize +ForwardURICompat -ForwardDirectories
# JkRequestLogFormat set the request format 
JkRequestLogFormat "%w %V %T"
# Send everything for context /examples to worker named worker1 (ajp13)
JkMount  /jira/*   TC5
JkMount  /jira TC5
JkMount  /confluence/* TC5
JkMount  /confluence   TC5
JkMount  /AnthillPro/* TC5B
JkMount  /AnthillPro   TC5B
JkMount  /index.jspTC5
JkMount  /admin*   TC5
JkMount  /manager/*TC5

errors_mod_jk.log ...here's a sample of stuff I get.
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:29 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.562000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:30 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.109000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:48 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.016000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:48 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.281000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:55 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.031000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.125000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.015000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.00
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.00
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 1.031000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.015000
[Wed Mar 30 10:53:56 2005] TC5 zed.cisco.com 0.00

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[jug-discussion] OT: Garage sale with geek stuff - Mar 19

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Off topic...but well, I'm sure the adventurous might be able to run J2ME
on some of the devices I'll be selling tomorrow. 

The neighbor across the street is moving and selling all sorts of stuff.

So we decided to join in -- we'll be in the morning with various stereo
gear, speakers, TV's, computer bits, cables of all sorts, a mountain
bike, and other things my wife yanks outta the house. 

Drop by to peruse, or just say hello. :-)

East two streets from Prince & Campbell.

http://tinyurl.com/4xzar

Cheers,
Tim

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RE: [jug-discussion] storing blobs on file system or in db

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

>if there's a general rule on whether one should stick 
> such things into a db or onto the file system.

Where to stick uploads always tends to spark debate from both sides. (I
see there are already a bunch of replies. ;-)

Personally, the debaute leaves me thinking that either [religion] has
it's benefits/problems and there isn't a clear winner. (Unless you've
got some hard and fast environ req't.)

> putting them on 
> the fs seems to interfere with clustering 
Yep. I've seen some systems where the file system area made writeable
for 'uploads' is actually shared across the cluster to avoid that
problem. But then, you still have potential for concurrency issues if
multiple CGI/Servlet/Gerbils try to manipulate the file. I'm no expert,
but Unix Filesystems have let me shoot myself in the foot more times
than I care to recall. ;-)

> putting them in the db puts 
> extra load on the db and the network.  there are a bunch of other
issues too.
Yep and Yep. No clear winner IMHO. 

Another possible DB issue... cache. Say the files are images, webserver
and FS will automagically handle cache, but if served dynamically --
your image server cgi/servlet will have to deal with that, or worse,
just dynamically serve the images over and over again. The client can't
cache either, if the server doesn't play nice and give back HEAD data.
And even if it does play nice, your server will have to run a DB query
to see if the image is updated from the last time the user was there. 

I'm currently thinking about serving some images stored in a DB via FS
by rigging the 404 error handler into a custom server piece that pulls
down images from a DB and stores them in the FS, and then the next
request won't be a 404. Fun hack, eh. 

Timo


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RE: [jug-discussion] Java Tasklist/Calendar

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Sunbird client and an ApacheServer running webDAV to store the info
might work.

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/screenshot.html
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/images/Calendar_Modern_Day.png 

RE: tasks with subtasks, it's a great feature, but you're SOL.
* Jira 3.x has sub-tasks and an RPC Services API that could be
leveraged.
* CodeJedi.com has "ShadowPlan" with PDA sync. 

Say -- which plugin to Outlook have you seen that does the sub-task
thing?

Tim

 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:26 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: [jug-discussion] Java Tasklist/Calendar
> 
> I need a task and calendaring program that:
>   1) Will synch to a central file (preferably via ssh to 
> my server, but
> if I have to manually copy a few files up and down it is OK 
> as I can just
> write a script to get the latest copy on machine start up and 
> upload changes
> on shut down)
>   2) Can be run on windows (without admin privileges is 
> preferable, but
> I
> can live without)
>   3) Can be run on OS X
>   4) Can be run on other *nix's
>   5) The task list needs to be tiered, such that I can put down
> something like Arrange RSS Conference and then underneath it 
> put subtasks
> like, Arrange Location, Arrange Speakers, Arrange Venders, 
> etc.  And under
> those put tasks like Arrange Location -> UAC Conference Room, 
> TCC Auditorium,
> etc.  
> 
> I have seen pluggins for outlook that do this, but I need 
> something a bit more
> portable.  Any suggestions, keeping in mind I am a poor 
> starving college
> student?
> 
> I am more then willing to dump everything I have now and 
> start with a new
> system if it meets the requirements above.  Heck if I can get 
> a task list that
> does reminders I can dump the calendaring requirement as well. 
> 
> Any suggestions would be most appreciative
> 
> (Yes, I have thought about just programming one in JAVA 
> myself, but I hardly
> have the time)
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [jug-discussion] the languages that we create....

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> There is a lot of room for non-fatal mutations 
> (like Tomcat,
> >Jetspeed, ...and Drew ) to survive and even procreate. Heck, I
> >hear Drew has a reay cute kid that looks nothing like him. 
> >  
> >
> This is the second thread that I've been forceable dragged 
> into :-)  And 
> now Tim is making inflamatory remarks about both my genetics and my 
> progeny.  Is this flame bait, Timo? :-)

Heh heh. Non-fatal mutations can cripple an organism, lessening their
chances for survival, and lowering the chances for reproduction (which
is true failure)... or the mutation might create a unique characteristic
change which heightens the organisms survival rate and ability to
reproduce...which if you haven't caught onto the genetics of it all...is
a Good Thing(tm). ;-)

Summary -- unless they are "lethal" -- meaning the offspring dies before
birth, mutations aren't always a Bad Thing(tm).

(...but Jetspeed still really does suck. )

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] the languages that we create....

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> The breakdown with the analogy is that the goal of the vast 
> majority of 
> open-source projects is to *not* be forked but to be used, 
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply any forking in there... ;-)

I assume that "Unadulterated Project Use" is the goal. Sure, OS projects
say, "You've got the source, go ahead and make it better." They'd be
happier if somehow they had already achieved such greatness that
everyone simply said, "Uh, no need, it's absolutely perfect the way it
is." :-)

> goal of all organisms *is* to fork 
heh heh, if an organism could reproduce and clone itself identically
without introducing a probablity of a 50% avg variation... it would.
Again, this isn't according to "Tim" ...it's just my interpretation of
what some geneticists would maybe say. 


Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] the languages that we create....

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Peacocks, like most other male mammals, have little to do with
> childbirth... it's all about "HEY! Lookit me! Plase! Don't I look
> pretty! You want ME! Who's your daddy???" 
Heh heh, of course, I would slip myself with all this silly talk of
peacocks. :-)  

Peacock's aren't mammals, of course. Doh!

(I have a microbiology degree...never was all that good with higher
forms of life. Maybe that's why I work well with computers. )

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] the languages that we create....

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> a peacock tail
> evolved naturally, but actually runs counter to the
> survival of the organism and the society of peacocks(
Josh apparently didn't do as well in Genetics as Andrew 

Go have a look at Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"... the Game of Life, as it
were, is all about continuation of the species - live a rich life, but
don't have offspring, and according to geneticists, the organism was a
failure. 

Peacocks, like most other male mammals, have little to do with
childbirth... it's all about "HEY! Lookit me! Plase! Don't I look
pretty! You want ME! Who's your daddy???" 

The more progeny they have, the more "successful" they are because their
genes have made it into the next generation(s). If the plume gets the
male eaten, yes, that's bad for him...but not bad "genetically" if he
managed to survive long enough to mate -first-. 

So while Code != peacock plumes, the analogy kinda holds up... at least
enough to be fun to chat about.

Ex: a free server that is Great Stuff(sm) but runs in obscurity vs
"glitzy" software from Peacock Inc that markets via a Superbowl ad --
whichever one winds up installed into an enterprise "wins" the genetic
race (or at least one lap.)

As Andy pointed out... maybe Codehaus.org will kill Apache.org... or
maybe not. There is a lot of room for non-fatal mutations (like Tomcat,
Jetspeed, ...and Drew ) to survive and even procreate. Heck, I
hear Drew has a reay cute kid that looks nothing like him. 

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] the languages that we create....

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Various People said:
>  > [various things i don't care about]
LOL  :-)

> Another problem with my analogy might be that it's been a 
> while since i took a genetics class 
> and didn't exactly ace that one.  

I have an actual degree in the subject... and regardless of
'correctness' -- the analogy is at least interesting in the parallels
you made. Compared to the analogies that usually come from higher up in
the mgt food chain, it's downright brilliant. ;-)

"We want IT to be a supermarket! Thassit! Yess, a supermarket... because
just like a market, we have fish! Ye! Quick! Put that into a
PowerPoint!"

Timo

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[jug-discussion] RE: Bagging on ASF...or not

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> However, please note that the focus was on the ASF as an 
> organization and
> how their (lack of) leadership has failed the entire community.

Howdy John, et. al

I probably would have agreed/shared a lot of John's opinions on ASF...
up until this week. 

I've started talking with the chaps in Apache Infrastructure to try and
help understand why wiki.apache.org runs an antiquated MoinMoin install
and what I can do to help.

These dudes have jobs just like the rest of us, and yet they are flying
in from as far away as the UK (perhaps farther) to relocate servers to a
different colo facility and do some upgrades in person. 

And I got to thinking, "Uh... yeah, it may be a mess...but what am *I*
doing to help? And uh, what organization have I -EVER- been a part of
that despite the best intentions, actually delivers on them? And why is
that? Are they all incompetent morons? Are they eeevil? Hmm... no,
probably they're [volunteer] humans... some smarter than others, some
with opinions stronger than others, some who can -donate- more time than
others... but in the end, a meritocracy probably is measured by
popularity... and by and large ASF's end product(s) are better than a
stick in the eye."

I think in long rambling sentences. 

Normally I am not so charitable towards less than perfect
organizations...but my head is softening after years of beating it
against the walls. ;-)

Oh...Jetspeed and Tomcat still suck. 

Cheers,
Timo


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[jug-discussion] More wasted time...laughing

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

One of the links somewhere from Williams blog brought me to the
BileBlog. 

I don't read Hani's stuff often because his rants often make me want to
develop in C#. ;-)  

But sometimes what he writes is just damn funny...some [in]appropriate
excerpts that hit close to T-JUG home (and almost always get comments
from Rick ):

http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/Weblog?catname=%2FJava

---
For 's sake, even maven, a tool for spastics, by spastics, a tool
that's so badly written it would make any number of holy figures break
down and cry like little girls, a tool so horrifically incompetent that
it'd make the baby jeebus attempt to gnaw off his own family jewels,
manages to actually get this right.

Lucene is a worthy exception; how those lucene devs sleep at night while
being part of such an embarrassingly incompetent organisation is fast
becoming a modern day mystery of epic proportions. 

Good vs Evil ... In terms of editors, the side of evil prefers Eclipse.
The side of evil is almost exclusively pure Windows users, and wouldn't
know a cross platform issue if it yanked off their genitalia and slapped
them in the face with it. The side of good uses IDEA, because they're
not afraid of paying for quality software.

...you're a smart chap (despite the very debilitating handicap of having
the attention span of a guppy

...you can't figure out what the docs mean unless you already understand
the product, but can't understand the product without the docs.


Ya just gotta laugh. :-)
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] IoC and object encapsulation

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

> Hate to burst your bubble before you read it, but it appears to be an
> article on why Injection-based IoC is bad and then provides 
> an alternative
> way to do IoC called Context-based IoC. So not a complete 
> slam against IoC pro-EJB. 

Well, I never said I had a bubble to burst. ;-)

I suppose what I did say could leave for an ambiguous interpretation.
I've been waiting to see some non-lovefest, other side of the coing,
articles concerning IoC, but that doesn't imply I agree or disagree with
them. Especially not without reading them.

Right now, it seems everybody and their brother loves IoC, but is the
love justified or are there negatives too...Everything tends to have
some of both.

For example, a scant two years ago, Struts was a lovefest... but lately,
it seems, "not so much", as Mr. Stewart might say. 

So has anyone actually read the article yet? :-)

Timo





> -warner
> 
> On Feb 10, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote:
> 
> > Hey gang -
> >
> >  I've been waiting for this... article(s) that aren't as warm and 
> > fuzzy toward IoC...
> >
> > http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=IOCandEJB
> >
> > I don't have time to read until the weekend...but thought 
> this article 
> > might spur some interesting discussion here on the jug list.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Timo
> >
> > 
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> >
> >
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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[jug-discussion] IoC and object encapsulation

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey gang -

 I've been waiting for this... article(s) that aren't as warm and fuzzy
toward IoC...

http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=IOCandEJB

I don't have time to read until the weekend...but thought this article
might spur some interesting discussion here on the jug list. 

Cheers,
Timo

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RE: [jug-discussion] LMS notes and a question

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

>Perhaps more than you wanted to know... but you did ask.
Indeed! On both counts. :-)

Thanks!
Tim
P.S. When I heard "portfolio" -- I thought it was a project portfolio...
i.e. a way to keep track of all the "projects" being worked on by an
organization. Boy howdy was I wrong. ;-)

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[jug-discussion] FW: [CONF-user] CAS - Central AuthC Server for SSO

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

 A response back from the confluence list to a post I made about the CAS
server Duffy showed us...

(I think Warner mentioned this acronym...but this post has the ref and
an article. Cool.)

Timo

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Dan Hardiker
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 2:57 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [CONF-user] CAS - Central AuthC Server for SSO
> 
> > [Timo]
> > One interesting piece was for Single Sign-On called CAS.
> 
> An alternative is JOSSO: 
> * http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=31584 
> * http://www.josso.org/
> 
> Although I do notice that JOSSO is mentioned in the "Other 
> Single Sign On Solutions", although I've not found anything 
> comparing the two. However, I have seen a couple of people 
> mention that spring/acegi/cas work well together - so it 
> might better suit confluence. *shrug*
> 
> Just a bit more information there for absorption ;)
> 
> --
> Dan
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 07/02/2005
>  
> 
> --
> 
> 
> confluence-user details available at:
> http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/mailinglist.jsp
> 
> 

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[jug-discussion] LMS notes and a question

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey there Mr. Duffy -- 
  The LMS discussion was interesting tonight... took a scant few notes
below for those who weren't able to attend. (yeah, the markup means I'm
anticipating Confluence running soon for tjug)

Say -- one question... you mentioned an open source Project Porfolio Mgt
thing... what would that be?

Cheers,
Timo

h3. Portal Discussion

h4. Single Sign On
* Central Auth Service (CAS)
** AuthC not AuthZ, but could be hacked to sorta do that by ex,
returning groups for the user during the AuthC XML return step
** Can you do pass through authentication (so WebApp1 can get data for
'tcolson' from WebApp2) -- yes! "proxy AuthC"
* Warner says check: JSSO.org

h4. uPortal
* XSLT "webbage engine" 
* sounds like a small portal engine
* "channels" instead of "portlets"
* Summary: robust code, but not easy to follow... expects it might go
through a major redesign

h4. OKI
* SOA, with some def'ns for various systems
* Mgr class for each service, acting as a facade for biz objs
* some anti-OO 

h4. SAKAI
* plan to create OS product, but with docs and stuff you'd expect from
boxed SW
* name comes from the Iron Chef dude :-)
* Community interested in guiding development, pay $10K, get a higher
priority voice
* created using JSF components and have components for Date Widget, Rich
Editor
* Spring + Hibernate + Pluto
& What makes it not a "portal" -- "It is geared more toward Learning and
is more an an aggregate application for learning mgt tools."

h4. LMS
* Commercial: Blackboard, WebCT (now at $xxx,xxx+) , Desire2Learn
* OS: Moodle

h4. Kuali
* Financial system integration... kinda next thingy.








  

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RE: [jug-discussion] SCP for Java?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Thanks Robert! :-)

I probably should have fired off a couple google searches to find that,
but was being lazy, and your answer was direct and fast. You're an
enabler.

So -- you (or others) have experience using this lib? Looks well
documented (I like the examples -- woot!).

RE: What am I doing with it? Nothing. A colleague needs to SCP stuff
from Java and somebody pointed them at an in-house lib. I went "pt!
there's gotta be something better documented out in the open source
community..." And here we are. :-)

Cheers,
Timo


> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Zeigler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 4:50 PM
> To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org
> Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] SCP for Java?
> 
> 
> http://www.jcraft.com/jsch/index.html
> (Which /is/ what is used inside the ant scp task. BSD-style 
> license. =)
> 
> Question: what are you using it/wanting it for??
> 
> Robert
> 
> Tim Colson (tcolson) wrote:
> 
> > Hey folks -
> >   Anybody know if there is an SCP lib for Java? Perhaps 
> what is used 
> > inside the ANT SCP task?
> >  
> > Thanks,
> > Tim
> 
> 
> 
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[jug-discussion] SCP for Java?

[Tim Colson \(tcolson\)]

Hey 
folks -
  
Anybody know if there is an SCP lib for Java? Perhaps what is used inside the 
ANT SCP task?
 
Thanks,
Tim