KR> Vacuum Pump

[laser147 at juno.com]

I had a 1983 Cadillac with the 4.1 V-8 that had a belt driven vacuum pump
to supplement manifold vacuum.  I don't know how common that is, using a
vacuum pump to supplement manifold vacuum on car engines, but the 4.1
came from the factory with such a pump.  So . . . junkyards would be a
good source of vacuum pumps although I'm sure one can find a more elegant
solution to provide vacuum to drive whatever needs to be driven.  

Keep in mind that you can use two external venturi tubes instead of one. 
I've seen planes with two.  They're subject to icing as someone said . .
. and that would happen right when you needed your vacuum instruments the
most.  In this era of AHARS I think I would bypass using vacuum at all. 
Vacuum pumps have always been the weak link in the system and venturi
tubes are too vulnerable as well as causing drag.  It's time to go with
more reliable technology if you intend to actually use those instruments.


Mike
KSEE




Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2

KR> Vacuum gauge

[John Martindale]

Snip from Mike...I've currently got a vacuum gauge and just want to
fill up the hole with something that provides more useful information.  A
vacuum gauge truly is
uselesssnip.

Why not just reverse the numbers in the vacuum gauge. If you are not going
to turbo-charge then the information portrayed is no different it's just the
face of the dial. 

Zero vacuum is atmospheric pressure circa 29" MP.  Idle vacuum is around 12"
MP.


John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
Australia

ph:61 2 6658 4767
m:0403 432179
email:john_martindale at bigpond.com
web site: 



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KR> vacuum T wanted

[Oscar Zuniga]

I'm looking for an airworthy 3-1/8" vacuum turn and bank.  Just your standard 
Pioneer/Bendix instrument with turn needle and ball/bank slip-skid indicator.

I attempted to overhaul mine and it's sound but I can't figure out how to 
restore the dial face (tried hand-painting by masking off the doghouses but it 
looks ugly)- finally decided to just look for another.  Found out that no 
instrument shop in the world will touch something that an "amateur" has had 
their hands in.

Contact me off-list; thanks.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR 

KR> vacuum bagging with a FOOD SAVER

[Daniel Root]

Some folks are using their FOOD SAVER brand vacuum sealers,
to fabricate vacuum bagged parts. Probably not much use for this method on our 
KRs,
but it?d be interesting to play with, and perhaps fab some panels for map 
boxes? Has
anyone on this board tried it?  

KR>Vacuum

[John Martindale]

Hi Paul

Do you really need 90amps. Be nice if one existed on the newer mini
alternators though. 


John Martindale
29 Jane Circuit
Toormina NSW 2452
AUSTRALIA

ph: 61 2 6658 4767 (H)
mob: 0403 432179
email: john_martind...@bigpond.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of pk.sm...@bigpond.net.au
Sent: Friday, 26 February 2010 1:19 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum

Most small Japanese diesel RVs have them. .snip

KR>Vacuum

[pk.sm...@bigpond.net.au]

Most small Japanese diesel RVs have them. here is an example
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mitsubishi-Express-Pajero-Triton-4D56-Diesel-Alternator_W0QQitemZ280468920954QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414d401a7a
Paul.

 Hall wrote: 
=
That sounds like an excellent idea any brands or ideas on suppliers?
=
 Paul wrote:
Has anyone thought of putting a combined alternator/Vac pump off a
diesel RV?

KR>Vacuum

[Hall, Rodney CTR NNSY, C210]

That sounds like an excellent idea any brands or ideas on suppliers?

Rodney 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of pk.sm...@bigpond.net.au
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 21:56
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum

Has anyone thought of putting a combined alternator/Vac pump off a
diesel RV?
Kill 2 birds with the one stone?

Paul Smith, Brisbane australia.

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KR>Vacuum

[Fred Johnson]

Good point! I just took the mileage and divided by 60 mph to estimate how
many hours I had driven the thing.

DAMN that was a lot of time behind the wheel when I should have behind the
stick :o)

Fred Johnson
Reno, NV



Jack wrote:


Fred 

I think you need to double the hour estimate. My 03 Silverado has 142600
miles and another feature of the odometer is an hour meter and it has 4120
hours.  Sounds like it would be good enough for a KR. It may also need a
regulator so as not to provide too much vacuum for the instruments. 

Jack Cooper 

KR>Vacuum

[jack.cooper2009]

 But with 280K I figure that worked out to about 4500 hours. try to get that 
out of an 
aircraft pump... 

Fred Johnson 
Reno, NV 


Fred 

I think you need to double the hour estimate. My 03 Silverado has 142600 miles 
and another feature of the odometer is an hour meter and it has 4120 hours.  
Sounds like it would be good enough for a KR. It may also need a regulator so 
as not to provide too much vacuum for the instruments. 

Jack Cooper 



Jack wrote: 



Did this pump run continously or on demand? If its on demand it may not last 
very long runninc continously. 





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KR>Vacuum

[Fred Johnson]

It ran continuously. It has a reserve canister as a means to reduce load
when you kick something on like put it in 4 wheel, but if it didn't run,
trust me on this one, the heater controls locked in the defrost mode and
only ran cold air. Try driving to work in the 10 degree temps with cold air
on your defroster and no 4x to get out of the snow.

I must say that it was only the early`99 model diesels that had the electric
as they went back to belt driven pump in the `00 and later models. But with
280K I figure that worked out to about 4500 hours. try to get that out of an
aircraft pump... 

I can verify that if you need with my brother who is a Ford mechanic. Heck,
if it wasn't for him I probably still would be driving with cold air :0)


Fred Johnson
Reno, NV




Jack wrote:



Did this pump run continously or on demand? If its on demand it may not last
very long runninc continously. 

KR>Vacuum

[jack.cooper2009]

Did this pump run continously or on demand? If its on demand it may not last 
very long runninc continously. 

Jack Cooper 
- Original Message - 
From: "Fred Johnson" <f...@renotruss.com> 
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:08:11 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum 

Better yet, why not use the Ford electric vacuum pump of the `99 diesels? 
They weight about 12 ounces and barely larger than my fist. At 200 bucks 
they are a lot cheaper and lighter than an aircraft pump. And I put 280K on 
my truck before the pump went out last winter. It ran the 4x4, the heater 
controls and some of the turbo controls. I would think it could run a pair 
of gauges?? 

Fred Johnson 
Reno, NV 



Randy wrote: 

Has anyone tried to use a Chevy belt driven vacuum pump ?  They are readily 
available, reliable and reasonably compact.  They were used on the Chevy 
pickups with the 6.2 litter diesel engines.   I put well over a 100K miles 
on one with no problems.  They could be belt driven or a coupler could be 
easily made to drive them direct.  Just a thought. 


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KR>Vacuum

[Tony Wright]

I think it is a great idea, and you could back it up with engine vacuum very 
much like Precise Flight.

Tony Wright
N6654

KR>Vacuum

[Hall, Rodney CTR NNSY, C210]

An excellent idea. But isn't one of the ideas behind using vacuum
instruments so they won't have to rely on the electrical system? I could
see this as a good thing because vacuum instruments are usually cheaper
and surely there is a more reliable pump than on current aircraft but
using an electric pump takes away some of the advantages of a vacuum
system.

Now that being said we are in an era of many all electric airplanes,
EFIS, Electronic Ignition and redundant systems so an electric pump if
needed would be acceptable in those craft with redundant systems. 

Rodney

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Fred Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:08
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum

Better yet, why not use the Ford electric vacuum pump of the `99
diesels?
They weight about 12 ounces and barely larger than my fist. At 200 bucks
they are a lot cheaper and lighter than an aircraft pump. And I put 280K
on my truck before the pump went out last winter. It ran the 4x4, the
heater controls and some of the turbo controls. I would think it could
run a pair of gauges??

Fred Johnson
Reno, NV



Randy wrote:

Has anyone tried to use a Chevy belt driven vacuum pump ?  They are
readily available, reliable and reasonably compact.  They were used on
the Chevy 
pickups with the 6.2 litter diesel engines.   I put well over a 100K
miles 
on one with no problems.  They could be belt driven or a coupler could
be easily made to drive them direct.  Just a thought.


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KR>Vacuum

[Fred Johnson]

Better yet, why not use the Ford electric vacuum pump of the `99 diesels?
They weight about 12 ounces and barely larger than my fist. At 200 bucks
they are a lot cheaper and lighter than an aircraft pump. And I put 280K on
my truck before the pump went out last winter. It ran the 4x4, the heater
controls and some of the turbo controls. I would think it could run a pair
of gauges??

Fred Johnson
Reno, NV



Randy wrote:

Has anyone tried to use a Chevy belt driven vacuum pump ?  They are readily 
available, reliable and reasonably compact.  They were used on the Chevy 
pickups with the 6.2 litter diesel engines.   I put well over a 100K miles 
on one with no problems.  They could be belt driven or a coupler could be 
easily made to drive them direct.  Just a thought.

KR>Vacuum

[Randy Powell]

Has anyone tried to use a Chevy belt driven vacuum pump ?  They are readily 
available, reliable and reasonably compact.  They were used on the Chevy 
pickups with the 6.2 litter diesel engines.   I put well over a 100K miles 
on one with no problems.  They could be belt driven or a coupler could be 
easily made to drive them direct.  Just a thought.
>
>
>
> My dad's old KR-2S started out using a venturi that was mounted on the 
> bottom of the fuse between the main gear to drive the attitude indicator 
> and the DG. >
> Later on, he machined a mounting plate and a belt drive to run a normal 
> aircraft vac pump off the Revmaster 2180 and that worked like a charm. I'm 
> not sure how he did it, but I could get you his email if you'd like to 
> ask.
>
>
>

KR>Vacuum

[MVS Knight]

Glenn,



My dad's old KR-2S started out using a venturi that was mounted on the bottom 
of the fuse between the main gear to drive the attitude indicator and the DG. 
It worked, but only barley put out enough vac to get the AI to indicate right 
after about 10 min of flight time. This is obviously not ideal, and besides, 
the venturi on the bottom looked terrible!

Later on, he machined a mounting plate and a belt drive to run a normal 
aircraft vac pump off the Revmaster 2180 and that worked like a charm. I'm not 
sure how he did it, but I could get you his email if you'd like to ask.



BTW, this is my first post to the list! I'd like to say hello to everyone. I'm 
beginning the build on a KR-2S in Palmetto GA at my house. Thanks to everyone 
for the good information here and I look forward to meeting many of you at the 
next gathering that I plan on attending.



Michael Knight 


> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:18:26 -0600
> From: rep...@martekmississippi.com
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: KR>Vacuum
> 
> Is anyone using a vacuum pump on the VW conversion, or even an external 
> venturi? How are the results, and how is it adapted to the VW? Any other 
> suggestions?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Glenn Martin
> 
> Biloxi, MS, 39532
> rep...@martekmississippi.com
> 
> 
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KR>Vacuum

[Glenn Martin]

Is anyone using a vacuum pump on the VW conversion, or even an external 
venturi? How are the results, and how is it adapted to the VW? Any other 
suggestions?


-- 
Glenn Martin

Biloxi, MS, 39532
rep...@martekmississippi.com

KR> Vacuum Bag Composite?

[Kurt Clement]

I was laying up some BID on some foam for the VStab parts. I layed up the one 
side and then went back to the HStab. Several days later as I was waiting for 
some curing on the HStab I went back to the one sided glassed foam to lay up 
the other side. Because of the way I had stored it there was a significant 
curve in it. I layed up the BID on the other side and then I put some duct tape 
on some boards and then placed some heavy water bottles on the boards to let it 
cure flat. The next day when I took off the water bottles and boards I had a 
surface that was smooth as glass. So I was wondering if it would make sense to 
apply a similar technique elsewhere. I am about ready to apply the final layup 
of fiberglass on the HStab. Should I lay down some peel ply and then vacuum bag 
the whole thing? I went to a little local fly in and they had some composite 
planes and my son-in-law asked if my surface was going to be that smooth. I 
told him I thought so, but I
 didn't know how it would get that way. Is that smooth final surface achieved 
with primer and sanding alone?


-Kurt 

128 hours in AZ

KR> Vacuum bagging you say?

[e.j.pi...@att.net]

Here is a good site for low cost and low tech vacuum bagging process.

http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm


--
Eric Pitts
Terre Haute, Indiana
KR2S

KR> vacuum

[Colin Rainey]

Behalf Of Rick and Pam
Subject: KR> vacuum


can the VW  motor develop vacuumed to run an attitude indicator?

Rick
The best thing to do that is easiest from all that I have seen, and still
keep it simple, is to buy the large vacuum venturi from Wicks or AS, that
will support both AI and DG. It can be mounted right under the plane, check
out Steve Jones' plane pictures for location, and eliminates the failure of
the drive shaft and the mounting hassle of the vacuum pump. VW's don't have
the drive for it, so you will have to use something similar to a ignition
mag drive, but turning the correct rpms. You will need to use a vacuum
regulator, but should find it ALOT easier to get installed and setup.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/venturi3.php



Colin Rainey
brokerpi...@bellsouth.net <mailto:brokerpi...@bellsouth.net>



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KR> vacuum

[Rick and Pam]

thanks thats what i was looking for. all the "over the top" posts got me 
thinking about if the price of these attitude indicators aren't so far out 
of line why doesn't anybody have them, instead of trying to fly south to get 
thru the clouds
- Original Message - 
From: "Colin Rainey" <brokerpi...@bellsouth.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:17 AM
Subject: RE: KR> vacuum


> Behalf Of Rick and Pam
> Subject: KR> vacuum
>
>
> can the VW  motor develop vacuumed to run an attitude indicator?
>
> Rick
> The best thing to do that is easiest from all that I have seen, and still
> keep it simple, is to buy the large vacuum venturi from Wicks or AS, 
> that
> will support both AI and DG. It can be mounted right under the plane, 
> check
> out Steve Jones' plane pictures for location, and eliminates the failure 
> of
> the drive shaft and the mounting hassle of the vacuum pump. VW's don't 
> have
> the drive for it, so you will have to use something similar to a ignition
> mag drive, but turning the correct rpms. You will need to use a vacuum
> regulator, but should find it ALOT easier to get installed and setup.
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/venturi3.php
>
>
>
> Colin Rainey
> brokerpi...@bellsouth.net <mailto:brokerpi...@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.21/589 - Release Date: 
> 12/15/2006
>
> 

KR> Vacuum power

[Beverly & Colin Rainey]

Hey Steve
The VSI is just hooked to the static line of the altimeter, and airspeed
indicator.
You can use a venturi that is placed inside the cowling if you want to have
it not
show outside the plane, but that is going to be the easiest, most reliable
way for
a KR builder. For both an Attitude Indicator (Artificial Horizon) and
Directional Gyro
you will need the larger type venturi so that you can produce enough vacuum
to run both. The largest venturi AS sells requires a regulator.

You should be able to see the fuel in the tube since it has a blue color
added,
without any ball in the tube. I can just see it melting over time and ending
up
in the fuel filter or worse…

Colin Rainey
N96TA

KR> vacuum required?

[Harold Woods]

Hi Netters,
I did not want the ugly venturi on the outside, required to run a gyro 
compass and a horizon. I purchased a vacuum pump that bolts into the back of 
the engine (Franklin) The price used with filter and pressure regulator was 
$ (CAD) 100.00 It will be well worth it.
Regards
Harold Woods
Orillia ON. Canada.
haroldwo...@rogers.com 

KR> Vacuum Generator

[Scott Cable]

Netters,
I know it's not friday, but I'm home for the weekend, trying to get things 
packed up and ready for the big move
I have a vacuum generator for sale for $50 plus shipping. 
Contact me off-list at:
s2cab...@yahoo.com



Scott Cable
KR-2S # 735
Wright City, MO
s2cab...@yahoo.com

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KR> Vacuum

[Stephen and Janet Henderson]

I have a VW 1835 engine on my KR-1. Does anyone recommend a certain type of
vacuum pump that I should buy? Is anyone using a Venturi or a Missing Link?
If so, could you tell me about how well they work.

Thank you,
Steve

KR> Vacuum

[Orma]

Is anyone using a Venturi

Hello Steve
I had been using one 11' venturi for years and recently switched to two,  I
have AH, DG, T  The use of one was just not enough for
the three gyro's
Orma
Southfield, MI
N110LR celebrating 20 years
Flying, flying and more flying
http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/

KR> Vacuum

[ifly...@aol.com]

There is a 12 volt electric motor with a vacuum pump that is relativily  
inexpensive (200.00 or so) that can power all your gyros.  I will try to  get 
info 
on it but believe that Glenda McAlwee knows where to get them.   They are 
automotive but easily adapted for a reliable vacuum source.Shell be here 
tomorrow and I'll ask her and let you know.Bill

KR> Vacuum pump

[Dana Overall]

>From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" 
>
>Dynon makes a great unit and if VFR is your only goal than all is good.  If 
>IFR is your goal than it is not IFR for stand alone use. It must be backed 
>up by all analog gauges or 2 electrical systems in the event of electrical 
>failure of the primary.

Colin, I'm not going to get into a KR and IFR debate as most know how I 
feel.  However, the above statement is not correct and I just want to 
correct this thought.  The Dynon used as an artificial horizon satisfies the 
required equipment list as is, this is not a portion of the regs that must 
meet the "IFR approved" equipment for the ground facilities to be used 
requirement.  Just wanted to clear that up.  In my case I do not have an 
alternate horizon as it is not required but am using as essential bus 
electrical system just for my satisfaction as well as an autopilot totally 
independant of the horizon.  You will get conflicting versions all around 
this issue but it is really pretty cut and dry.



Dana Overall
1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive

KR> Vacuum pump

[Stephen Jacobs]

if you want a cross country airplane that won't wear you out, check out
EZ Pilot Autopilots (do a search) and TruTrack



EZ Pilot:  http://www.trioavionics.com/

TruTrack:  http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/

KR> Vacuum pump

[Colin & Bev Rainey]

You can use an air or smog pump standard equipment on many autos from the 70s 
and 80s, and just reverse the hookups so that instead of blowing it is sucking 
air.  They were belt driven in plentiful supply, easy to rig, light weight, and 
low on hp draw.

Colin & Bev Rainey
KR2(td) N96TA
Sanford, FL
crain...@cfl.rr.com
http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html

KR> Vacuum pump

[Stephen Jacobs]

You can use an air or smog pump standard equipment on many autos


+++

I have seen reference to a "smog pump" on several occasions - hoped that
it would become obvious at some point and save me from showing my
ignorance - what is a smog pump?

Steve J

KR> Vacuum pump

[jsmon...@aol.com]

Do you need to regulate the vacuum on the smog pump?.. well it run the DG and 
AI?

A gentlemen e-mailed me off line and his 1960 172A has a belt driven vacuum 
pump and it has worked well with only needing periodic belt replacement.

Thanks,
John Monday
KR2S Laguna Beach, CA

KR> Vacuum pump

[jscott.pi...@juno.com]

I have seen reference to a "smog pump" on several occasions - hoped that
it would become obvious at some point and save me from showing my
ignorance - what is a smog pump?

Steve J



Smog pump is the reference to a small belt driven air pump that was used in the 
70s and 80s cars to inject fresh air into the exhaust ahead of the catalytic 
converter to help the converter to burn off the left over hydrocarbons in the 
engine exhaust.  If one was to use the inlet side of this pump, it makes a nice 
little vacuum pump.  Owen McPherson appears to have this setup on his VW 
powered KR. 

Re: regulating vacuum.  If the vacuum can exceed the rating for your gyros, you 
probably need to use a vacuum regulator.  

The KR Gathering is the place to see all these kinds of innovations in use.

Jeff Scott

+++






The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

KR> Vacuum pump

[Stephen Jacobs]

Smog pump is the reference to a small belt driven air pump that was used
in the 70s and 80s cars to inject fresh air into the exhaust ahead of
the catalytic converter

+

Thanks Jeff - Nothing like that in Africa.

Pretty neat and cost effective vac pump = probably a fraction of the
price and 4 times the life.

Score one for the innovative

Steve J

KR> Vacuum pump

[tncompressor...@aol.com]

In a message dated 7/13/2004 1:18:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ask...@microlink.zm writes:
Smog pump is the reference to a small belt driven air pump that was used
in the 70s and 80s cars to inject fresh air into the exhaust ahead of
the catalytic converter
My old ford truck (1985 Diesel) uses a belt driven vacuum pump to operate the 
power brakes and heater/ac controls, as there is almost zero vacuum with a 
diesel engine.  I replaced it a couple of years ago, about $70.00 from auto 
zone.  the first one lasted over 300,000 miles.  Seems like it weighed about 2 
lbs. , and is a diaphragm type pump.  Might be worth looking into. 

Riley Collins
Rutledge, TN

KR> Vacuum pump

[Colin & Bev Rainey]

Dynon makes a great unit and if VFR is your only goal than all is good.  If IFR 
is your goal than it is not IFR for stand alone use. It must be backed up by 
all analog gauges or 2 electrical systems in the event of electrical failure of 
the primary.  True all electric panels have been used for years in the jets but 
with redundant electricals.  Even more weight
 Every choice has its own compromises, choose whatever best suits you...

Come inspector please call back

Colin & Bev Rainey
KR2(td) N96TA
Sanford, FL
crain...@cfl.rr.com
http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html

KR> Vacuum pump

[Wood, Sidney M.]

Even the gee whiz Sirius machines and Cessna 182 glass cockpits are required to 
have the analog gauges.  Still in transition...

Sid Wood, Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD USA
sidney.w...@titan.com

-

Dynon makes a great unit and if VFR is your only goal than all is good.  If IFR 
is your goal than it is not IFR for stand alone use. It must be backed up by 
all analog gauges or 2 electrical systems in the event of electrical failure of 
the primary.  True all electric panels have been used for years in the jets but 
with redundant electricals.  Even more weight
 Every choice has its own compromises, choose whatever best suits you...

Come inspector please call back

Colin & Bev Rainey
KR2(td) N96TA
Sanford, FL
crain...@cfl.rr.com
http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html

KR> Vacuum pump

[Ron Freiberger]

Anyone who DELIBERATELY flys a KR into IMC needs more than a
backup.

Why would anyone expect a sporty flying aircraft to fly like it
was on rails?

Ron Freiberger
mailto: rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com

KR> Vacuum pump

[Barry Kruyssen]

For accruals to be paid on termination the accrual records (pay component def 
1200) must have the "TERMINATE" config type

See the code in HRPAY710, Private Sub fSelectPayComponents
ElseIf rlPayCompDef = 1200 Then
'' only get PCRefs that are in the TERMINATE pay comp config
If hr.cache.PCCfgCache.Item("TERMINATE", 
hr.cache.PCRefCache.Item(loData("fPCRef")).AccrlPayCompRef).Loaded = True Then

regards
Barry

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ron Freiberger 
  To: KRnet 
  Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:55 AM
  Subject: RE: KR> Vacuum pump


  Anyone who DELIBERATELY flys a KR into IMC needs more than a
  backup.

  Why would anyone expect a sporty flying aircraft to fly like it
  was on rails?

  Ron Freiberger
  mailto: rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com





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KR> Vacuum pump

[jsmon...@aol.com]

Perhaps some of us would like to fly IFR flight plans and never fly into 
IMC...  or perhaps we live in a marginal foggy area all summer and would like 
to 
fly every once in awhile when the visibility is slightly under VFR...  or use 
IFR designated flight routes through military training areas not otherwise 
available.

Thanks,
John Monday
KR2S
Laguna Beach, CA



In a message dated 7/14/2004 3:02:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
k...@bigpond.com writes:
Anyone who DELIBERATELY flys a KR into IMC needs more than a
  backup.

  Why would anyone expect a sporty flying aircraft to fly like it
  was on rails?

  Ron Freiberger

KR> Vacuum pump

[Stephen Jacobs]

= fly (file) IFR flight plans and never fly into IMC

= marginal foggy area all summer 

= visibility is slightly under VFR

= use IFR designated flight routes



John puts the matter into perspective - IFR does not always mean heading
into hard QBI.  So many of my flights end 15 minutes after dark and
during the summer months we often need to drop through 1000' of gentle
cumulus to get home.

Besides that, even with the required level of respect for the weather
and the very best of intentions, sooner or later you will run out of
blue sky (or day light).  Folks that use their airplanes purely for fun
around home base can probably ignore this, but if you often fly cross
country the odds change.

I had an in depth look at the Dynon EFIS including a discussion with
their technical guy - I think it is a Godsend for home builders from a
cost /weight /facilities perspective.  The solid state gyros are pretty
solid and the overall system should be as reliable as any other piece of
modern avionics or electronics.

Over the last 35 years I have had loads more grief from vacuum pumps and
gyro instruments than I have ever had with a radio /ADF /Xponder /Hi-fi
/VDU or a $19.99 walkman.  Over that time the electronic stuff has
become even lighter, better, cheaper and even MORE reliable - the steam
gauges are still exactly what they were then.

Redundancy is obviously first prize, but we don't really have that
anyway - singles generally only have one vac pump - when that fails the
AH and DI go out the window leaving you with a compass and the electric
T  If the electrical system quits as well- you have now't.  Don't
think that this does not happen.

The Dynon power requirement is typical of modern electronics - it will
happily keep you well informed for a few hours on backup from the
smallest of Gel Cells.  The unit is designed to switch to a reserve
battery - so no wizardry is required from us.

Totalling the costs of a modest steam gauge panel layout with the
associated vac kit makes the Dynon sound pretty good to me.  A Glass
cockpit KR for the same or less money.

As a bonus, the Dynon produces the output needed for an auto pilot (roll
and pitch /alt.).  I suspect that only a low cost interface is required
to drive the pitch and roll control via the trim servos. 

Take care
Steve J

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Ray Fuenzalida]

Please send the Power Point template for the flanges.  I may not use them, but 
I would like to see them.  Thanks.
Ray

"Serge F. Vidal"  wrote:
On ZS-WEC, my KR2, I converted all the automotive size instruments into
aircraft size (2.25 inches) instruments.

All I had to do was to make square flanges of the correct size out of
aluminium 2.8mm sheets (I dreamt of a thicker, plastic sheet, without
finding one), then cut out a hole in the middle at the correct automotive
hole size, slip the instrument in, and voila!
To secure the instrument to the flange, I epoxied each instrument to its new
flange, but quite frankly, the C-clamp would have worked too.

I have PowerPoint templates for these flanges, if anybody wants them. Just
print them on paper (ideally a sticker label), then cut the instrument holes
with your favorite hole saw or fly cutter, then drill the mounting holes,
then cut with a hacksaw.


Serge Vidal
KR2 ZS-WEC
Tunis, Tunisia

Ron Freiberger wrote:
[If it's AIRCRAFT, it's more expensive. And 2.25 inch diameter, and nice
looking. If you go to PepBoys, and buy one for your CAR, it'll be cheaper.]


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KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[intrepid...@juno.com]

> "Serge F. Vidal"  writes:
> On ZS-WEC, my KR2, I converted all the automotive
> size instruments into aircraft size (2.25 inches) instruments.
> 
> All I had to do was to make square flanges of the correct
> size out of aluminium 2.8mm sheets (I dreamt of a thicker,
> plastic sheet, without finding one), then cut out a hole in
> the middle at the correct automotive hole size, slip the
> instrument in, and voila!

  I make the same kind of flanges from ~0.090" clear acrylic
  plastic sheet --- the same stock from Home Depot that I use
  for making windows, landing light covers, etc.

  For the miniature automotive gauges ( ~1-5/8" diameter ), I 
  make a "size proportionate" flange and 4-40 machine screws
  rather than up-size the gauge into a 2.25" Aircraft Hole with
  6-32 screws.  These are great space-saver gauges in a KR-1
  sized panel.

  For some I've even epoxied (or Crazy Glue, cyanoacrylate ?)
  rivnuts into the corner holes for ease of installation.  Counter-
  boring both sides of the flange and *pulling* the rivnut is a bit
  more problematic and sometimes breaks the corner off.

  a r t

  Art Cacella   1970 American AA-1  N6155L  "Dinkie"
  1972 KR-1 Plans, still not started 
  ( but four metal homebuilts underway )
  Winston-Salem, NC


The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Ross Youngblood]

I'm thinking that vacuum gauges are calibrated in inches of mercury,
and pressure gauges are in PSI, which are two different things.

But the principal is similar I think.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:53:10 +1100, Martindale Family  
wrote:

> OK folks this might be the dummest question but...
>
> Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a 
> manifold pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and 
> it's just a dial face change, why are the latter so much more expensive. 
> See, for example, in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at 
> 1998-1999):
>
> Mitchell vacuum gauge PN 10-25125 for $35-50 and manifold gauge PN 
> 10-25145 for $71-50.
>
> Why couldn't I just remove the dial face and mirror image it? Does 
> anyone know of a supplier of 2 1/4" manifold gauges that are cheaper. 
> Egauges have an ISSPRO but it's calibrated in psi and I don't like its 
> look. VDO don't seem to make a MP but do have a vacuum and this might be 
> what I get since it matches my other gauges.
>
> Awaiting the dunce's hat in the corner!!
>
> John
>
> The Martindale Family
> 29 Jane Circuit
> TOORMINA NSW 2452
> AUSTRALIA
>
> phone: 61 2 66584767
> email: johnj...@chc.net.au___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Martindale Family]

Agreed Ross. One standard atmosphere equals 14.73psi or 29.92 " Hg or
1013.2mB (HPa) or 101.56kPa and gauges can be calibrated to any of
these.aircraft generally use "Hg but try to explain the difference to
some ignorant young salesman when you're chasing such a gauge. I encounter
this problem with electronic salesmen, AN bolt size versus wire gauge etc
etc, weber jets, ...I could go on and on it's very exasperating knowing
everything about everything ...sic...:-)  Ever tried to explain to a pilot
why an aircraft cannot stall at 0G!!!

John

The Martindale Family
29 Jane Circuit
TOORMINA NSW 2452
AUSTRALIA

phone: 61 2 66584767
email: johnj...@chc.net.au
- Original Message -
From: "Ross Youngblood" <ross...@operamail.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge


> I'm thinking that vacuum gauges are calibrated in inches of mercury,
> and pressure gauges are in PSI, which are two different things.
>
> But the principal is similar I think.
>
> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:53:10 +1100, Martindale Family <johnj...@chc.net.au>
> wrote:
>
> > OK folks this might be the dummest question but...
> >
> > Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a
> > manifold pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and
> > it's just a dial face change, why are the latter so much more expensive.
> > See, for example, in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at
> > 1998-1999):
> >
> > Mitchell vacuum gauge PN 10-25125 for $35-50 and manifold gauge PN
> > 10-25145 for $71-50.
> >
> > Why couldn't I just remove the dial face and mirror image it? Does
> > anyone know of a supplier of 2 1/4" manifold gauges that are cheaper.
> > Egauges have an ISSPRO but it's calibrated in psi and I don't like its
> > look. VDO don't seem to make a MP but do have a vacuum and this might be
> > what I get since it matches my other gauges.
> >
> > Awaiting the dunce's hat in the corner!!
> >
> > John
> >
> > The Martindale Family
> > 29 Jane Circuit
> > TOORMINA NSW 2452
> > AUSTRALIA
> >
> > phone: 61 2 66584767
> > email: johnj...@chc.net.au___
> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
> --
> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
> ___
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge / cyanoacrylate glue

[Serge F. Vidal]

I was once told that cyanoacrylate glues (common name "Superglue") is not
suitable for vehicle applications, because it does not withstand vibrations.

Serge Vidal
KR2 ZS-WEC
Tunis, Tunisia


  Art Cacella wrote:

[ For some I've even epoxied (or Crazy Glue, cyanoacrylate ?)
  rivnuts into the corner holes for ease of installation.  Counter-
  boring both sides of the flange and *pulling* the rivnut is a bit
  more problematic and sometimes breaks the corner off.]

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Martindale Family]

OK folks this might be the dummest question but...

Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a manifold 
pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and it's just a dial 
face change, why are the latter so much more expensive. See, for example, in 
the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at 1998-1999):

Mitchell vacuum gauge PN 10-25125 for $35-50 and manifold gauge PN 10-25145 for 
$71-50.

Why couldn't I just remove the dial face and mirror image it? Does anyone know 
of a supplier of 2 1/4" manifold gauges that are cheaper. Egauges have an 
ISSPRO but it's calibrated in psi and I don't like its look. VDO don't seem to 
make a MP but do have a vacuum and this might be what I get since it matches my 
other gauges.

Awaiting the dunce's hat in the corner!!

John

The Martindale Family
29 Jane Circuit
TOORMINA NSW 2452
AUSTRALIA

phone: 61 2 66584767
email: johnj...@chc.net.au

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Dan Heath]

You may be right, but, assuming you need a manifold pressure gauge, which
will take more time? Earning the extra $20, or accomplishing this task?  And
 then, we still don't know if we have the same thing.

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

da...@kr-builder.org

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering

See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Orma Robbins]

 2 1/4" manifold gauges that are cheaper
Westach used to sell them through Wick or Spruce.  I have one but it was
purchased 20 years ago.
Orma L. Robbins
o...@aviation-mechanics.com

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Mark Jones]

>OK folks this might be the dummest question but...

>Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a 
>manifold pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and 
>it's just a dial face change, why are the latter so much more expensive. 
>See, for example, in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at 
>1998-1999):

No, the two gauges are not the same. A vacuum gauge is measured in inches of
mercury and uses an internal bourdon tube which flexes and contracts with
pressure changes and is what a standard pressure gauge uses to measure
pressure. A manifold pressure gauge measures inches of water which is a very
low pressure and incorporates a diaphragm to make the measurement and is
calibrated accordingly.  Now, if you really want to save money, my company
sells every type of pressure gauge you can think of and we have 63mm (2
1/2")  0-30" hg gauges for  $25 each. These are all stainless steel case,
panel mount held in place by a U-clamp. 

Mark Jones (N886MJ
Wales, WI

KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Ron Freiberger]

Manifold "pressure" is conventionally measured is Inches of mercury, 0 to
30.  If it's AIRCRAFT, it's more expensive. And 2.25 inch diameter, and nice
looking.  If you go to PepBoys, and buy one for your CAR, it'll be cheaper.

Ron Freiberger
mailto: rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of
Mark Jones
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:10 AM
To: KR Net
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

>OK folks this might be the dummest question but...

>Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a
>manifold pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and
>it's just a dial face change, why are the latter so much more expensive.
>See, for example, in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at
>1998-1999):

No, the two gauges are not the same. A vacuum gauge is measured in inches of
mercury and uses an internal bourdon tube which flexes and contracts with
pressure changes and is what a standard pressure gauge uses to measure
pressure. A manifold pressure gauge measures inches of water which is a very
low pressure and incorporates a diaphragm to make the measurement and is
calibrated accordingly.  Now, if you really want to save money, my company
sells every type of pressure gauge you can think of and we have 63mm (2
1/2")  0-30" hg gauges for  $25 each. These are all stainless steel case,
panel mount held in place by a U-clamp.

Mark Jones (N886MJ
Wales, WI

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KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Mark Jones]

Thanks Ron/Kenneth for the correction. Inches of mercury for manifold
pressure is correct. I was not thinking clearly. But that is not unusual.

Mark Jones
Mueller Sales Corporation
Ph: 262-781-5310
Fax:262-781-4130
E-mail: mjo...@muellersales.com
Web: www.muellersales.com


-Original Message-
From: Ron Freiberger [mailto:rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 9:51 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

Manifold "pressure" is conventionally measured is Inches of mercury, 0 to
30.  If it's AIRCRAFT, it's more expensive. And 2.25 inch diameter, and nice
looking.  If you go to PepBoys, and buy one for your CAR, it'll be cheaper.

Ron Freiberger
mailto: rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of
Mark Jones
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:10 AM
To: KR Net
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

>OK folks this might be the dummest question but...

>Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a
>manifold pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and
>it's just a dial face change, why are the latter so much more expensive.
>See, for example, in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at
>1998-1999):

No, the two gauges are not the same. A vacuum gauge is measured in inches of
mercury and uses an internal bourdon tube which flexes and contracts with
pressure changes and is what a standard pressure gauge uses to measure
pressure. A manifold pressure gauge measures inches of water which is a very
low pressure and incorporates a diaphragm to make the measurement and is
calibrated accordingly.  Now, if you really want to save money, my company
sells every type of pressure gauge you can think of and we have 63mm (2
1/2")  0-30" hg gauges for  $25 each. These are all stainless steel case,
panel mount held in place by a U-clamp.

Mark Jones (N886MJ
Wales, WI

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KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Mark Jones]

Here is a good article. 
http://www.rodmachado.com/Product/Books/Excerpts/c3-29.pdf


Mark Jones
Mueller Sales Corporation
Ph: 262-781-5310
Fax:262-781-4130
E-mail: mjo...@muellersales.com
Web: www.muellersales.com


-Original Message-
From: Mark Jones [mailto:mjo...@muellersales.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:08 AM
To: 'rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com'; 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

Thanks Ron/Kenneth for the correction. Inches of mercury for manifold
pressure is correct. I was not thinking clearly. But that is not unusual.

Mark Jones
Mueller Sales Corporation
Ph: 262-781-5310
Fax:262-781-4130
E-mail: mjo...@muellersales.com
Web: www.muellersales.com


-Original Message-
From: Ron Freiberger [mailto:rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 9:51 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

Manifold "pressure" is conventionally measured is Inches of mercury, 0 to
30.  If it's AIRCRAFT, it's more expensive. And 2.25 inch diameter, and nice
looking.  If you go to PepBoys, and buy one for your CAR, it'll be cheaper.

Ron Freiberger
mailto: rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of
Mark Jones
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:10 AM
To: KR Net
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

>OK folks this might be the dummest question but...

>Is a vacuum gauge going from 30" of vacuum down to 0" the same as a
>manifold pressure gauge going from 0" of pressure up to 30". If so, and
>it's just a dial face change, why are the latter so much more expensive.
>See, for example, in the Aircraft Spruce catalog (mine is old at
>1998-1999):

No, the two gauges are not the same. A vacuum gauge is measured in inches of
mercury and uses an internal bourdon tube which flexes and contracts with
pressure changes and is what a standard pressure gauge uses to measure
pressure. A manifold pressure gauge measures inches of water which is a very
low pressure and incorporates a diaphragm to make the measurement and is
calibrated accordingly.  Now, if you really want to save money, my company
sells every type of pressure gauge you can think of and we have 63mm (2
1/2")  0-30" hg gauges for  $25 each. These are all stainless steel case,
panel mount held in place by a U-clamp.

Mark Jones (N886MJ
Wales, WI

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KR>Vacuum gauge vs manifold pressure gauge

[Serge F. Vidal]

On ZS-WEC, my KR2, I converted all the automotive size instruments into
aircraft size (2.25 inches) instruments.

All I had to do was to make square flanges of the correct size out of
aluminium 2.8mm sheets (I dreamt of a thicker, plastic sheet, without
finding one), then cut out a hole in the middle at the correct automotive
hole size, slip the instrument in, and voila!
To secure the instrument to the flange, I epoxied each instrument to its new
flange, but quite frankly, the C-clamp would have worked too.

I have PowerPoint templates for these flanges, if anybody wants them. Just
print them on paper (ideally a sticker label), then cut the instrument holes
with your favorite hole saw or fly cutter, then drill the mounting holes,
then cut with a hacksaw.


Serge Vidal
KR2 ZS-WEC
Tunis, Tunisia

Ron Freiberger wrote:
[If it's AIRCRAFT, it's more expensive. And 2.25 inch diameter, and nice
looking.  If you go to PepBoys, and buy one for your CAR, it'll be cheaper.]

KR>vacuum pump

[Mark Langford]

Correction, RW's vacuum pump thing is at
http://www.krnet.org/misc/vacuumpump.pdf

Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
N56ML "at"  hiwaay.net
see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford

KR>vacuum pump

[Dan Heath]

So, I assume that this pump drives off, what would be, the magneto drive. 
The reason that I am guessing that, is because it requires that you have
electric ignition. 

See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

da...@kr-builder.org

See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering

See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR>Vacuum Source

[Scott Cable]

Netters,
I'm looking for a cleaner way of mounting a 4 in
vacuum venturi.  It appears that Steve Jones' setup is
effective, as far as providing ample vacuum, but I
think there's gotta be a cleaner way to do this.
Has anyone placed the venturi inside the cowl and
provided an inlet and exhaust for it?
Inside the cowl would provide several advantages:
1.) Less drag
2.) Less prone to icing
3.) Ram air from prop would provide vacuum signal
sooner?

Could a vacuum pan set-up provide enough vacuum to run
vacuum powered instruments?  A Smog check valve is
placed perpendicular to the exhaust flow, with the
check valve opening facing downstream.  This provides
enough vacuum to evacuate the crankcase of fumes,
enough power to run instruments?

If both of these systems were plumbed, would it have
enough redundancy to use with out electrical
instrument back-up?
What are other KR's that flying (or close to it)using?

=
Scott Cable
KR-2S # 735
Wright City, MO
s2cab...@yahoo.com

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KR>Vacuum Source

[Wood, Sidney M.]

Scott,
There are standby vacuum systems on production aircraft that use the vacuum 
generated in the engine intake manifold.  One disadvantage is the power 
reduction and leaned mixture when this standby system is selected for use.  
This system will operate a vertical gyro and a gyro compass with about 4 inches 
of vacuum under 5,000 feet MSL.
Sid Wood KR2, N6242
Mechanicsville, MD

-



Netters,
I'm looking for a cleaner way of mounting a 4 in
vacuum venturi.  It appears that Steve Jones' setup is
effective, as far as providing ample vacuum, but I
think there's gotta be a cleaner way to do this.
Has anyone placed the venturi inside the cowl and
provided an inlet and exhaust for it?
Inside the cowl would provide several advantages:
1.) Less drag
2.) Less prone to icing
3.) Ram air from prop would provide vacuum signal
sooner?

Could a vacuum pan set-up provide enough vacuum to run
vacuum powered instruments?  A Smog check valve is
placed perpendicular to the exhaust flow, with the
check valve opening facing downstream.  This provides
enough vacuum to evacuate the crankcase of fumes,
enough power to run instruments?

If both of these systems were plumbed, would it have
enough redundancy to use with out electrical
instrument back-up?
What are other KR's that flying (or close to it)using?

=
Scott Cable
KR-2S # 735
Wright City, MO
s2cab...@yahoo.com

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KR>Vacuum Source

[gleone]

 I found a site where one fellow built his venturi into the wing root.  It
makes for an extremely neat installation.  Now, if I can find the pictures,
I'll send them to you but it may be a while.  If this jogs anyone else's
memory, and you have those same picts, please feel free to contact Scott.

Gene, Worland, Wyoming

---Original Message---

From: KRnet
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:29:52 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR>Vacuum Source

Netters,
I'm looking for a cleaner way of mounting a 4 in
vacuum venturi. It appears that Steve Jones' setup is
effective, as far as providing ample vacuum, but I
think there's gotta be a cleaner way to do this.
Has anyone placed the venturi inside the cowl and
provided an inlet and exhaust for it?
Inside the cowl would provide several advantages:
1.) Less drag
2.) Less prone to icing
3.) Ram air from prop would provide vacuum signal
sooner?

Could a vacuum pan set-up provide enough vacuum to run
vacuum powered instruments? A Smog check valve is
placed perpendicular to the exhaust flow, with the
check valve opening facing downstream. This provides
enough vacuum to evacuate the crankcase of fumes,
enough power to run instruments?

If both of these systems were plumbed, would it have
enough redundancy to use with out electrical
instrument back-up?
What are other KR's that flying (or close to it)using?

=
Scott Cable
KR-2S # 735
Wright City, MO
s2cab...@yahoo.com

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KR>Vacuum Source

[larry flesner]

>Netters,
>I'm looking for a cleaner way of mounting a 4 in
>vacuum venturi. 
>Scott Cable
+++=

I'm looking for a vacuum source also.  I removed the vacuum
pump and complete system from my 0-200 to cut down some
weight.  I have an elect T and was hoping for an elect AH
but the price is out of sight.  I'm looking to settle for a vacuum
AH (I had one and sold it) if I can get a vacuum source other
then a large round venturi hanging on the fuselage.

I had considered mounting one in the cowling but I have no
room.  I've been wondering about building a rectangluar
venturi and mounting it on the belly.  Something like maybe
one inch thick and 5 or 6 inches wide with venturi shape
inside.  It seems like that would be a lot more aerodynamic
if it would work.  Do we have any engineers on the net that
could give me some dimensions and a hand drawing or
something on what point to pick up the vacuum?  I had also
considered building something that looks like 1/2 a round
venturi and mounting it directly on the fuselage.  I suspect
to work properly the venturi may have to be spaced out
from it's mount in "clean" air.  I haven't the slightest idea 
at this point.  Help or suggestions anyone?

Larry Flesner
Carterville, Illinois

KR>Vacuum Source

[fixerjo...@aol.com]

hey scott,,the prop blast does provide almost ample vac volumn for the DG,but 
a far cry from supplying enough vac for the artifical horizon.  the venturi 
supplies too much vac (9 inches) at speed. you must use a vac regulator to get 
4.5-5.5 inches. too much vac will burn out gyro berings quickly!   if anyone 
figures out how to elimniate that ugly,draging thing,,let me know. untill 
then,it gets the job done.

KR>Vacuum Source

[jsmon...@aol.com]

If you find the pictures of the venturi in the wing root... please e-mail 
them to me also!!!

Thanks
John S. Monday
KR2S
Laguna Beach, CA

KR>Vacuum Source

[gleone]

Hah!  I knew I wasn't going completely senile!  (I've seen d' Nile several
times!)  I found the link!  The pictures aren't the best but the article
goes through it step by step.  

 http://kr.abshier.org/newsletters/nl50.html

Enjoy!

Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming

---Original Message---

From: KRnet
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:03:56 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum Source

If you find the pictures of the venturi in the wing root... please e-mail
them to me also!!!

Thanks
John S. Monday
KR2S
Laguna Beach, CA
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. 

KR>Vacuum Source-Wing Root

[Scott Cable]

Thanks Gene!
Crowds the cockpit though right?
--- gleone  wrote:

>  http://kr.abshier.org/newsletters/nl50.html


=
Scott Cable
KR-2S # 735
Wright City, MO
s2cab...@yahoo.com

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KR>Vacuum Source

[Mike Turner]

I would to see those pictures of venturi in the wing root also.

Mike Turner
KR2WS
Jackson, Mo
  - Original Message - 
  From: jsmon...@aol.com 
  To: kr...@mylist.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:03 PM
  Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum Source


  If you find the pictures of the venturi in the wing root... please e-mail 
  them to me also!!!

  Thanks
  John S. Monday
  KR2S
  Laguna Beach, CA
  ___
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KR>Vacuum Source

[gleone]

 Here is the link for the venturi built into the wing root.  The nice thing
about it is it's "free weight" if not "negative weight".  Enjoy,

Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming

http://kr.abshier.org/newsletters/nl50.html

---Original Message---

From: KRnet
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 7:43:23 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum Source

I would to see those pictures of venturi in the wing root also.

Mike Turner
KR2WS
Jackson, Mo
- Original Message -
From: jsmon...@aol.com
To: kr...@mylist.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: KR>Vacuum Source


If you find the pictures of the venturi in the wing root... please e-mail
them to me also!!!

Thanks
John S. Monday
KR2S
Laguna Beach, CA
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. 

KR>Vacuum Generators for bagging

[Richard Parker]

FYI, The company I work for just started handling a neat little venturi 
vacuum generator from Japan that goes to -27 inhg using your air compressor. 
No need for a vacuum pump and its small. I'm going to use one for bagging 
parts.

If anyone is interested I can forward a spec sheet. I'll get them to anyone 
on the KR net for cost. Approx $25


Rich Parker
Peterborough, NH
richonther...@hotmail.com

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KR>Vacuum Generators for bagging

[margiandr...@aol.com]

I would be interested  Thanks

Rick Armstrong
4522 Whetsel Ave.
Cincinnati,Ohio 45227

margiandr...@aol.com

KR>Vacuum Generators for bagging

[Ron Eason]

The auto industry has been using C.A. vacuum generators for years.  They are
very inefficient [use lots of C.A.] a number of companies manufacture them.
A water induced vacuum venturi is also out in the market which requires a
circulating pump circuit, it's alittle more efficient.


Ron

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Parker" <richonther...@hotmail.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 4:47 PM
Subject: KR>Vacuum Generators for bagging


> FYI, The company I work for just started handling a neat little venturi
> vacuum generator from Japan that goes to -27 inhg using your air
compressor.
> No need for a vacuum pump and its small. I'm going to use one for bagging
> parts.
>
> If anyone is interested I can forward a spec sheet. I'll get them to
anyone
> on the KR net for cost. Approx $25
>
>
> Rich Parker
> Peterborough, NH
> richonther...@hotmail.com
>
> _
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> ___
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>
>

KR>Vacuum Source

[Iglesias]

There is a vacum system (pump) in all diesel motors. Can´t use it?

- Original Message -
From: "Colin" <crain...@cfl.rr.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:46 PM
Subject: KR>Vacuum Source


Not to be presumptious, but it has been my experience that the exhaust
pilses from an engine especially at the lower rpms, will not be sufficient
in volume or steady enough to support more than one instrument with regular
vacuum. The best solution short of a vacuum pump, would be to either install
an emissions air pump with a belt drive and reverse the connections to
create suction, or use a vacuum venturi and mount it inside the cowling just
behind one head so that heated air flows through it, as well as getting a
prime of vauum from the prop wash through the engine compartment/cowling.
This should provide adequate vacuum for initial spin-up of the instruments,
and also guard against icing if inadvertant IMC is encountered. All tend to
agree that the whole configuration and purpose of the KR2, or KR1 is VFR
only, but the insurance would be nice. When I flew the Cessna 172RG, and the
Beech Duchess's they have their carb intake air drawn from behind the left
hand head, and then ducted down to a side draft carb below the oil pan. This
layout allowed us to basically never have to use carb heat in any flight
condition due to the already pre-warmed air, even after simulated emergency
descents, etc... The should be adequate heat to prevent the venturi from
icing. If I add a vacuum system on mine, this is where I intend to add the
venturi. It will also keep it from adding drag to the exterior.

Colin Rainey
crain...@cfl.rr.com
Sanford, Florida
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KR>Vacuum Source

[Colin]

Not to be presumptious, but it has been my experience that the exhaust pilses 
from an engine especially at the lower rpms, will not be sufficient in volume 
or steady enough to support more than one instrument with regular vacuum. The 
best solution short of a vacuum pump, would be to either install an emissions 
air pump with a belt drive and reverse the connections to create suction, or 
use a vacuum venturi and mount it inside the cowling just behind one head so 
that heated air flows through it, as well as getting a prime of vauum from the 
prop wash through the engine compartment/cowling. This should provide adequate 
vacuum for initial spin-up of the instruments, and also guard against icing if 
inadvertant IMC is encountered. All tend to agree that the whole configuration 
and purpose of the KR2, or KR1 is VFR only, but the insurance would be nice. 
When I flew the Cessna 172RG, and the Beech Duchess's they have their carb 
intake air drawn from behind the left hand head, and then ducted down to a side 
draft carb below the oil pan. This layout allowed us to basically never have to 
use carb heat in any flight condition due to the already pre-warmed air, even 
after simulated emergency descents, etc... The should be adequate heat to 
prevent the venturi from icing. If I add a vacuum system on mine, this is where 
I intend to add the venturi. It will also keep it from adding drag to the 
exterior.

Colin Rainey
crain...@cfl.rr.com
Sanford, Florida
FLY SAFE

KR>Vacuum Source

[Scott Cable]

Colin wrote:
"Not to be presumptious, but it has been my experience that the exhaust pulses 
from an engine especially at the lower rpms, will not be sufficient in volume 
or steady enough to support more than one instrument with regular vacuum."

One could always incorporate a vacuum reservoir.

or: Here's a nice vacuum pump advertised in Jeg's


http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2461=361

Note the name of the maker: Aerospace Components..


Scott Cable
KR-2S # 735
Linden, MI
s2cab...@yahoo.com

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KR>vacuum source

[Oscar Zuniga]

Somebody mentioned the idea of burying the venturi in the wing root.  Here's 
a snip from Feb., 2000 KRNet archive on this subject:

>Garth Hess built a venturi out of fiberglass & put it in the wing root 
>fairings.  It was documented in an old KR News letter
>I am on the road again, yet, still so I can't scan & email it.
>Bill Higdon
>willard...@aol.com

Bill is still on this list, I believe.  Plus I saw the detail myself, in the 
old newsletter (hard copy).  It was only big enough to drive one or two 
instruments though.  I think if I were going to this much trouble, I'd 
spring for one of the whiz-bang EFIS deals instead.

Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net





From: krnet-requ...@mylist.net
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:00:02 -0700

Send KRnet mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..."
Today's Topics:

1. EGT probe threads and boss? (Mark Langford)
2. kr sale? (Dean Selby)
3. Smooth Prime Cross Linker (larry flesner)
4. Re: Smooth Prime Cross Linker (Dan Heath)
5. Re: EGT probe threads and boss?
6. RE: Glass cockpit (Deems Herring)
7. kr sale/liability (larry flesner)
8. Re: kr sale? (Paul Gangemi)
9. Re: Re: KR>Glass cockpit-vacum source (Scott Cable)
   10. Re: kr sale/liability (Dana Overall)
   11. Re: Glass cockpit-vacum source (gleone)
   12. Vacuum Source (Colin)
   13. Re: EGT probe threads and boss? (Mark Langford)
   14. Re: Vacuum Source (Scott Cable)
<< message5.txt >>
<< message7.txt >>
<< message9.txt >>
<< message11.txt >>
<< message13.txt >>
<< message15.txt >>
<< message17.txt >>
<< message19.txt >>
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Fw: KR>vacuum source

[Norm]

In the tape I received sometime back in the RR information pack, there is a
description of a KR-100 with an 0200 Cont and the venturi made in the cowl
cheek.  Builder was Kevin Kelly.
Norm Seel
Brandon, FL
norman.s...@verizon.net
- Original Message -
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildr...@hotmail.com>
To: <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:23 PM
Subject: KR>vacuum source


> Somebody mentioned the idea of burying the venturi in the wing root.
Here's
> a snip from Feb., 2000 KRNet archive on this subject:
>
> >Garth Hess built a venturi out of fiberglass & put it in the wing root
> >fairings.  It was documented in an old KR News letter
> >I am on the road again, yet, still so I can't scan & email it.
> >Bill Higdon
> >willard...@aol.com
>
> Bill is still on this list, I believe.  Plus I saw the detail myself, in
the
> old newsletter (hard copy).  It was only big enough to drive one or two
> instruments though.  I think if I were going to this much trouble, I'd
> spring for one of the whiz-bang EFIS deals instead.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
> From: krnet-requ...@mylist.net
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:00:02 -0700
>
> Send KRnet mailing list submissions to
> kr...@mylist.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> krnet-requ...@mylist.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> krnet-ow...@mylist.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. EGT probe threads and boss? (Mark Langford)
> 2. kr sale? (Dean Selby)
> 3. Smooth Prime Cross Linker (larry flesner)
> 4. Re: Smooth Prime Cross Linker (Dan Heath)
> 5. Re: EGT probe threads and boss?
> 6. RE: Glass cockpit (Deems Herring)
> 7. kr sale/liability (larry flesner)
> 8. Re: kr sale? (Paul Gangemi)
> 9. Re: Re: KR>Glass cockpit-vacum source (Scott Cable)
>10. Re: kr sale/liability (Dana Overall)
>11. Re: Glass cockpit-vacum source (gleone)
>12. Vacuum Source (Colin)
>13. Re: EGT probe threads and boss? (Mark Langford)
>14. Re: Vacuum Source (Scott Cable)
> << message5.txt >>
> << message7.txt >>
> << message9.txt >>
> << message11.txt >>
> << message13.txt >>
> << message15.txt >>
> << message17.txt >>
> << message19.txt >>
> << message21.txt >>
> << message23.txt >>
> << message25.txt >>
> << message29.txt >>
> << message31.txt >>
> << message33.txt >>
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>
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