[LUTE] Benjamin Narvey’s virtual Solo concert

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Lutenists

   Benjamin Narvey this week is presenting a virtual solo recital of lute
   music for the Early Music Voices series in Canada. The recital, "The
   Calgary Connection", is the first concert of the year, and was recorded
   at Benjamin's home in Paris due to the Covid crisis.

   Benjamin's concert (free access online through to 4 October) includes
   music by Weiss, de Visée, Purcell and Vieux Gaultier. Performing from
   home, Benjamin can access a larger selection of lutes. He plays here a
   13 Course rider lute, a theorbo, and a 12 Course lute.

   Here is the link:

   [1]https://www.earlymusicvoices.ca/2020-2021
   Regards to all

   Anthony

   --

References

   1. https://www.earlymusicvoices.ca/2020-2021


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Duo at distance with third listener also elsewhere

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists

 Just before our list closes, I wonder whether in this difficult
   context anyone has the experience of playing duo at distance and with a
   third lutenist commentator in a third environment, perhaps all this via
   Zoom or similar?

   Please feel free to mail me with any  ideas and experience of this.

   Thank you also Waine for your wonderful work for us gradually
   now drawing to a close.

   Regards

   Anthony
   

   --

References

   Visible links:

   Hidden links:
   2. https://yho.com/footer0


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re : Re: modern lute editions hand written cranky or just weird

[Anthony Hind]

   I don't use a quill Susan, just a fountain pen with Italic or flex nib,

   But it's a pleasure to do, and as I said before, necessary for me

   if want to be able to read tablature on a music stand.

   I use cream coloured 160g paper that doesn't get blown about.

   That said some younger players find my larger transcriptions a
   challenge.

   But then they are specifically for my old eyes without glasses.

   Well, I've known for a long time, I'm a bit cranky or just weird.

   Anthony

   PS Wayne, it should be possible to print any manuscript  tablature onto
   heavy paper to avoid things flying about, and even to enlarge it
   slightly. However, I see more musicians now with tablets and no paper
   at all, but perhaps a little afraid of glitches bugs and so forth. I
   don't think I could join them.
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le dimanche, décembre 22, 2019, 1:56 PM, Susan Price
a écrit :

 I'm just wondering why more people dont produce modern editions that

 are hand written? I've made many transcriptions of keyboard music for

 lute and for me all I need is blank tab paper and a hard pencil. I

 compose too and my manuscripts are in the tradition of the old lute

 composers. I should also add that I practice copperplate calligraphy

 with a quill pen and produce lute music that way (so perhaps I'm just

 weird! )

 Susan

  Original message 

 From: Jean-Marie Poirier <[2]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr>

 Date: 12/22/19 5:31 AM (GMT-07:00)

 To: "Frank A. Gerbode, M.D." <[3]sa...@gerbode.net>

 Cc: "[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

 Subject: [LUTE] Re: modern lute editions

 Although I have a marked preference for original manuscripts or

 editions, we must keep in mind that not all players are professionals

 used to reading original stuff from the sources, and some may be

 discouraged by the same sources we enjoy reading from, we must pay a

 well deserved tribute to the previous and very competent work of
   people

 like Sarge Gerbode and Doug Town. Thanks to their generous attitude
   we

 have a much easier access to lots and lots of music otherwise
   difficult

 to find, very valuable resources for pro and amateur alike.

 A very grateful thank you to them hoping they do keep up the good
   work!

 Jean-Marie Poirier

 > Le 22 déc. 2019 à 00:49, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
   <[6]sa...@gerbode.net> a

 écrit :

 >

 >   As a major purveyor of modern lute editions, I feel I need to

 answer

 >  the question of "Why do it?", in the era of readily available

 >  facsimiles.

 >  Of course, when I started, some decades ago, facsimiles were not

 >  generally available online, if at all, so there was no choice

 except to

 >  do editions of stuff I happened to be able to get my hands on.
   Even

 >  now, some facsimiles are only available in very expensive printed

 >  editions. By and large the expense places these out of reach of

 most

 >  lutenists, including myself, so creating an online modern edition

 is

 >  the only way to make that music available at all.

 >  My mission, in my musical life, is to make as much free lute music

 in

 >  playable form available to as many people as possible. and the
   only

 way

 >  to do so is electronically. In 2014, the LSA Quarterly, v.48, I

 wrote

 >  my "[1]manifesto" on the subject, and I won't repeat myself here.

 Some

 >  book and a few MS sources are so clear that it is not, perhaps,

 >  necessary to make modern editions of them. I have tended not to

 >  prioritize these sources in making my editions. Apart from that,

 here

 >  are some reasons for making modern editions instead of relying on

 >  facsimile sources.

 >  1. Readability

 >  The point of making modern editions like those put out by the LSA

 is,

 >  quite simply,  to make it easier for modern lutenists to perform

 the

 >  music.  If we look at editions of mensural music, almost all of

 them

 >  use the standard modern style.  Unusual or unfamiliar clefs, key

 >  signatures, meter notations, and note shapes are almost
   universally

 >  replaced by modern symbols, because these are easily readable by

 modern

 >  players, most of whom are not fluent in reading the old symbols. I

 >  believe no information vital to performance is lost in these

 editions.

 >  Similar reasons apply to lute tab, where French tab serves as a

 "lingua

 >  franca". Few, for instance, would want to perform from German or

 >  Neapolitan tab sources and many are not fluent in Italian or

 Spanish

 >  tab either. Ideally, too, the layout of a particular piece should

 be

 >  conducive to arranging the 

[LUTE] Re : Re: Pierre Gaultier & Francois Richard (modern or old tablatures?)

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Martyn and all

   There are indeed some beautiful early lute tablatures, manuscript
   or engraved, that are a joy to peruse (as appears to be the case for
   the Krzeszow manuscript mentioned here recently by JarosÅaw Lipski, in
   relation to his new Weiss LP or the magnificent engraving of Reusner's
   Neue Lauren Fruchte).

   However, some well documented modern transcriptions can both be a help
   in reading old tablatures with damaged or missing elements, if these
   are reconstructed by more competent musicologists than myself, and
   often, as with the CNRS editions, these are backed up by well
   documented concordances allowing us to search for the relevant
   manuscripts ourselves. With French pieces, I find this useful
   having several versions from different manuscripts. Indeed, I believe
   in recent transcriptions of French pieces by Joel Dugot or François
   Pierre Goy, for example,  they often present pieces derived from
   several manuscripts based on their musicological réflexions, and
   interestingly their transcriptions of the same pieces are not
   identical, but this difference gives me pleasure, there is no reason
   why two musicologists would come up with exactly the same musical
   choice, yet the concordances are always given and so the musician can
   decide for himself which they prefer.

  Having said that,  I may not be the only lutenist who is unable to
   read any tablature old or modern placed on a music stand, and who is
   therefore obliged to personally transcribe every piece in their own
   handwriting as large as possible, because of weakening sight. As Mark
   Probert says this also helps to understand the piece, particularly if
   the transcription is based on several manuscripts. Unfortunately some
   modern transcripts with partially sketched minuscule characters are
   even more difficult to read with poor eyesight than old manuscripts
   though this is fortunately not the usual case.

   I thank both those who make old manuscripts and modern transcriptions
   widely available on the Web or through lute societies or other outlets.

   Regards

   Anthony

   Understanding. By going through a piece in such detail you get
   a somewhat different knowledge of the piece one that, certainly for a
   poor player

   like me, can really help in getting to learn the piece

   Certainly some modern transcriptions are even less legible than old
   manuscripts with minis use characters,

   There are also modern transcriptions which are almost unreadable,
   because of the minuscule characters (which will perhaps not be the case
   for Doug Towne's editions).
   On the other hand there are sometimes parts of a manuscript that have
   become damaged, and there it may be useful to see the solution to the
   missing piece worked out by a scholar in the field, if there is no
   concordance to help.
   I frequently do refer to the CNRS editions for French Baroque music,
   but I have noticed on occasions that the chosen tablature for a piece
   is not always the result of recreating the piece from the various
   existing manuscripts, but one of these has been preferred, perhaps for
   a very good reason. Nevertheless the reader is always referred to
   concordances which allows more research.
   but personally my eyesight does not allow me to read either on a music
   stand, so in all cases I transcribe by hand.
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le samedi, décembre 21, 2019, 1:40 PM, Martyn Hodgson
a écrit :

 Dear Nancy,

 I generally much prefer a facsimile of the original print or MS and

 sometimes wonder how the recent desire to put things into a modern

 uniform tablature edition has gained ground. In particular, the use
   of

 hand or engraving allowed and allows a more flexible approach in

 spacing etc which can better suggest interpretation and, in my view,

 usually makes reading easier. .

 Admittedly, with some originals the quality can be poor and difficult

 to read and, in these cases, I think a modern edition (employing

 tablature and spacings as close as possible to the original) is,

 indeed, perhaps the answer. However, collections such as that of 1638

 by Pierre Gaultier Orleanois are, in my view, perfectly readable  -
   my

 own photocopy of a microfilm print has a few background shadings but

 these could be cleaned up electronically I suspect to a condition

 closer to that when the collection was first printed.

 In short, players should feel encouraged to play direct from such

 rather than modern printed editions which impose a uniform and

 Procrustean style favoured by the modern editor.

 Martyn Hodgson

 On Friday, 20 December 2019, 20:14:25 GMT, Nancy Carlin

 <[2]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com> wrote:

 The LSA has just finished publishing all of Doug Towne's edition of

 Weiss's London manuscript and we plan to 

[LUTE] Re : Re: Rode Rec Le and Sure MOTIV Audio for Single track recording with external mic?

[Anthony Hind]

   Thanks  Roman

  You are right Rode Rec Le (the free version of Rode Rec Pro)
   is still a very good recording App, while waiting for the return of the
   pro app. It recognises the presence or absence of an external mic and
   has High resolution wav recording at 24/44.1kHz; it has exactly the
   same audio audio-wave and playback representation as FiRe and Rode Pro.
   This is exactly what I would expect as a phonetician. In fact the ultra
   simple  Rode Reporter has slightly higher resolution at 24/48kHz, but
   to my taste it is a little too simple, but certainly good for quick
   recording. To add to these, I discovered MOTIV Audio, a very good free
   App by Sure, which like the above can recognise  the presence of an
   external mic such as a Rode SC6-L, for example, allowing high quality
   24/48kHz wav recording in mono or stereo, without being unduly complex.
   Although, I prefer the sound-wave and play back presentation of Rode
   Rec Le, it is well worth looking at MOTIV audio. Furthermore there is a
   similar free Sure app for audiovideo recording. All these apps
   recognise the various plugin iOS lightning microphones.

   Regards

   Anthony
   : [LUTE] Re: Rode Rec Le and Sure MOTIV Audio, apps for Single track
   recording and recognises a
   Le lundi, décembre 16, 2019, 4:54 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com
a écrit :

   I use Rode, with a Tascam stereo mic. With excellent results.

   RT

   

   [1]http://turovsky.org

   Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.

   > On Dec 16, 2019, at 5:31 AM, Anthony Hind
   <[2]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   >

   >   Dear Luthenists

   >

   >I am looking for a very simple app which will recognise the

   >  presence of a mic and preamp such as Focusrite connected to the

   >  lightning connector of my iPad or iPhone, but which will make a
   single

   >  track mono recording of my lute without the unnecessary multitrack

   >  complexities and added resonances of GarageBand.

   >

   >  I used to use the excellent app FiRe, but it no longer works, as it

   >  hasn't been updated; I then used Tape by focusrite which worked
   alright

   >  on my iPad, but now has become temperamental. Impact by focusrite

   >  apparently works well but only for audiovideo. Rode Rec Le looks a
   good

   >  candidate but apparently it only works with a Rode mic (at least
   that

   >  is what they claim). I use the excellent Voice Recorder Pro for
   casual

   >  recording with the internal mics on my iPhone, but I don't think it
   can

   >  recognise an external mic. If anyone has found and uses successfully

   >  such an App, please let me know on or off list.

   >

   >  Thank you for your help, it will be much appreciated.

   >

   >  Regards

   >

   >  Anthony

   >  --

   >

   >

   > To get on or off this list see list information at

   > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://turovsky.org/
   2. mailto:agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: An Application which allows Single track recording and recognises an external mic?

[Anthony Hind]

   I thought originally they were only for trebles, but on the Aquila
   site, wheras previously Mimmo suggested using Venice twines for Meanes
   as they are very supple, he now suggests unsplit gut for Meanes as
   well. He explains that the gut strings made out of strips show more
   impedance to harmonics than those made out of a single piece of unsplit
gut.

   I hope I will hear the difference, although perhaps I should have my
   ears tested to cheque at my age, I can still hear such higher
   harmonics...

   Best

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, décembre 16, 2019, 2:57 PM, Martyn Hodgson
a écrit :

   I'll very much look forward to your findings about the new unsplit gut
   strings - I presume they're for trebles mainly...
   rgds
   Martyn
   On Monday, 16 December 2019, 13:49:57 GMT, Anthony Hind
wrote:
   Yes I see what you mean, Martyn. It would be difficult to do that with
   a machine that's not dedicated entirely to recording.  There is I
   suppose a limit to the openness of omnipurpose devices.
   Thanks for that thought.
   The reason I am looking for a solution right now is that I ordered the
   new unsplit gut strings from Mimmo. I was hoping to record a few pieces
   with my lute as it is at present with split gut strings, and then
   record the same pieces with the new split gut. I am not entirely sure
   the recording device would be good enough to discriminate such a
   difference, but I do know audible memory is generally very poor, and
   can easily be biased. As I hope the new strings will be better, I
   probably would hear them as such, unless a side by side recording tells
   me clearly otherwise. Of course there is also the problem that strings
   take a few months to run in, so I'd have to record the same pieces over
   a few months.
   Well that is the idea but from my experience in experimental phonetics,
   I know this will never be entirely objective.
   Best
   Anthony
   [2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, décembre 16, 2019, 2:08 PM, Martyn Hodgson
a écrit :

 Take your point Anthony,

 With my little Zoom H2 it allows over 6 hours recording time - so I

 simply put it on and then forget about it knowing I can fairly easily

 cut out large bits I don't want  when I download onto Audacity (or

 whatever you prefer)

 regards

 Martyn

 On Monday, 16 December 2019, 12:59:35 GMT, Anthony Hind

 <[3]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   Dear Martyn

 I was doing something similar to your suggestion by
   connecting

 my

   condenser mic through focusrite  directly to my Mac and using
   Amadeus

   which I prefer to Audacity; but this meant getting up from my
   playing

   position to start and stop recordings etc. I found using FiRe or
   Tape

   on my iPad more convenient as I could control everything while

 playing.

   I did then download to my Mac and Amadeus.

   I realize you can do that very well from a Zoom, and perhaps I will

   acquire one if I cannot replace FiRe; but I found the sound quality

 of

   this setup with condenser mic, focusrite, FiRe and IPad/iphone good

   enough for evaluating progress, or the lack of it (more often

   unfortunately).

   But I will keep your suggestion in mind, thanks Martyn,

   Regards

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, dà ©cembre 16, 2019, 12:26 PM, Martyn Hodgson

   <[1][4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> a à ©crit :

   Dear Anthony,

   You might find it helpful to download your recording onto a PC or

   tablet (from whatever recording device - I use a Zoom H2) and then

 use

   software like Audacity to produce a recording as you would wish it
   ie

   without ridiculously excessive 'sound engineering' with, as you
   say,

   things like the added resonances of GarageBand.

   [2][2][5]https://www.audacityteam.org/

   And no, I'm not on commision!

   regards

   Martyn

   On Monday, 16 December 2019, 10:32:09 GMT, Anthony Hind

   <[3][6]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Dear Luthenists

   I am looking for a very simple app which will recognise the

 presence of a mic and preamp such as Focusrite connected to the

 lightning connector of my iPad or iPhone, but which will make a

   single

 track mono recording of my lute without the unnecessary
   multitrack

 complexities and added resonances of GarageBand.

 I used to use the excellent app FiRe, but it no longer works, as
   it

 hasn't been updated; I then used Tape by focusrite which worked

   alright

 on my iPad, but now has become temperamental. Impact by focusrite

 apparently works well but only for audiovideo. Rode Rec Le looks

[LUTE] Re : Re : Re: Re : Re: An Application which allows Single track recording and recognises an external mic?

[Anthony Hind]

   I meant « the same pieces with the new unsplit gut. »
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, décembre 16, 2019, 2:49 PM, Anthony Hind
a écrit :

 Yes I see what you mean, Martyn. It would be difficult to do that
   with

 a machine that's not dedicated entirely to recording.  There is I

 suppose a limit to the openness of omnipurpose devices.

 Thanks for that thought.

 The reason I am looking for a solution right now is that I ordered
   the

 new unsplit gut strings from Mimmo. I was hoping to record a few
   pieces

 with my lute as it is at present with split gut strings, and then

 record the same pieces with the new split gut. I am not entirely sure

 the recording device would be good enough to discriminate such a

 difference, but I do know audible memory is generally very poor, and

 can easily be biased. As I hope the new strings will be better, I

 probably would hear them as such, unless a side by side recording
   tells

 me clearly otherwise. Of course there is also the problem that
   strings

 take a few months to run in, so I'd have to record the same pieces
   over

 a few months.

 Well that is the idea but from my experience in experimental
   phonetics,

 I know this will never be entirely objective.

 Best

 Anthony

 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 Le lundi, dà ©cembre 16, 2019, 2:08 PM, Martyn Hodgson

 <[2]hodgsonmar...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :

   Take your point Anthony,

   With my little Zoom H2 it allows over 6 hours recording time - so I

   simply put it on and then forget about it knowing I can fairly
   easily

   cut out large bits I don't want  when I download onto Audacity (or

   whatever you prefer)

   regards

   Martyn

   On Monday, 16 December 2019, 12:59:35 GMT, Anthony Hind

   <[2][3]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Dear Martyn

   I was doing something similar to your suggestion by

 connecting

   my

 condenser mic through focusrite  directly to my Mac and using

 Amadeus

 which I prefer to Audacity; but this meant getting up from my

 playing

 position to start and stop recordings etc. I found using FiRe or

 Tape

 on my iPad more convenient as I could control everything while

   playing.

 I did then download to my Mac and Amadeus.

 I realize you can do that very well from a Zoom, and perhaps I
   will

 acquire one if I cannot replace FiRe; but I found the sound
   quality

   of

 this setup with condenser mic, focusrite, FiRe and IPad/iphone
   good

 enough for evaluating progress, or the lack of it (more often

 unfortunately).

 But I will keep your suggestion in mind, thanks Martyn,

 Regards

 Anthony

 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 Le lundi, dà ©cembre 16, 2019, 12:26 PM, Martyn Hodgson

 <[1][3][4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> a à ©crit :

 Dear Anthony,

 You might find it helpful to download your recording onto a PC or

 tablet (from whatever recording device - I use a Zoom H2) and
   then

   use

 software like Audacity to produce a recording as you would wish
   it

 ie

 without ridiculously excessive 'sound engineering' with, as you

 say,

 things like the added resonances of GarageBand.

 [2][2][4][5]https://www.audacityteam.org/

 And no, I'm not on commision!

 regards

 Martyn

 On Monday, 16 December 2019, 10:32:09 GMT, Anthony Hind

 <[3][5][6]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   Dear Luthenists

 I am looking for a very simple app which will recognise
   the

   presence of a mic and preamp such as Focusrite connected to the

   lightning connector of my iPad or iPhone, but which will make a

 single

   track mono recording of my lute without the unnecessary

 multitrack

   complexities and added resonances of GarageBand.

   I used to use the excellent app FiRe, but it no longer works,
   as

 it

   hasn't been updated; I then used Tape by focusrite which worked

 alright

   on my iPad, but now has become temperamental. Impact by
   focusrite

   apparently works well but only for audiovideo. Rode Rec Le
   looks

 a

 good

   candidate but apparently it only works with a Rode mic (at
   least

   that

   is what they claim). I use the excellent Voice Recorder Pro for

 casual

   recording with the internal mics on my iPhone, but I don't
   think

 it

 can

   recognise an external mic. If anyone has found and uses

   successfully

[LUTE] Re : Re: Re : Re: An Application which allows Single track recording and recognises an external mic?

[Anthony Hind]

   Yes I see what you mean, Martyn. It would be difficult to do that with
   a machine that's not dedicated entirely to recording.  There is I
   suppose a limit to the openness of omnipurpose devices.

   Thanks for that thought.

   The reason I am looking for a solution right now is that I ordered the
   new unsplit gut strings from Mimmo. I was hoping to record a few pieces
   with my lute as it is at present with split gut strings, and then
   record the same pieces with the new split gut. I am not entirely sure
   the recording device would be good enough to discriminate such a
   difference, but I do know audible memory is generally very poor, and
   can easily be biased. As I hope the new strings will be better, I
   probably would hear them as such, unless a side by side recording tells
   me clearly otherwise. Of course there is also the problem that strings
   take a few months to run in, so I'd have to record the same pieces over
   a few months.

   Well that is the idea but from my experience in experimental phonetics,
   I know this will never be entirely objective.

   Best

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, décembre 16, 2019, 2:08 PM, Martyn Hodgson
a écrit :

 Take your point Anthony,

 With my little Zoom H2 it allows over 6 hours recording time - so I

 simply put it on and then forget about it knowing I can fairly easily

 cut out large bits I don't want  when I download onto Audacity (or

 whatever you prefer)

 regards

 Martyn

 On Monday, 16 December 2019, 12:59:35 GMT, Anthony Hind

 <[2]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   Dear Martyn

 I was doing something similar to your suggestion by
   connecting

 my

   condenser mic through focusrite  directly to my Mac and using
   Amadeus

   which I prefer to Audacity; but this meant getting up from my
   playing

   position to start and stop recordings etc. I found using FiRe or
   Tape

   on my iPad more convenient as I could control everything while

 playing.

   I did then download to my Mac and Amadeus.

   I realize you can do that very well from a Zoom, and perhaps I will

   acquire one if I cannot replace FiRe; but I found the sound quality

 of

   this setup with condenser mic, focusrite, FiRe and IPad/iphone good

   enough for evaluating progress, or the lack of it (more often

   unfortunately).

   But I will keep your suggestion in mind, thanks Martyn,

   Regards

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, dà ©cembre 16, 2019, 12:26 PM, Martyn Hodgson

   <[1][3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> a à ©crit :

   Dear Anthony,

   You might find it helpful to download your recording onto a PC or

   tablet (from whatever recording device - I use a Zoom H2) and then

 use

   software like Audacity to produce a recording as you would wish it
   ie

   without ridiculously excessive 'sound engineering' with, as you
   say,

   things like the added resonances of GarageBand.

   [2][2][4]https://www.audacityteam.org/

   And no, I'm not on commision!

   regards

   Martyn

   On Monday, 16 December 2019, 10:32:09 GMT, Anthony Hind

   <[3][5]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Dear Luthenists

   I am looking for a very simple app which will recognise the

 presence of a mic and preamp such as Focusrite connected to the

 lightning connector of my iPad or iPhone, but which will make a

   single

 track mono recording of my lute without the unnecessary
   multitrack

 complexities and added resonances of GarageBand.

 I used to use the excellent app FiRe, but it no longer works, as
   it

 hasn't been updated; I then used Tape by focusrite which worked

   alright

 on my iPad, but now has become temperamental. Impact by focusrite

 apparently works well but only for audiovideo. Rode Rec Le looks
   a

   good

 candidate but apparently it only works with a Rode mic (at least

 that

 is what they claim). I use the excellent Voice Recorder Pro for

   casual

 recording with the internal mics on my iPhone, but I don't think
   it

   can

 recognise an external mic. If anyone has found and uses

 successfully

 such an App, please let me know on or off list.

 Thank you for your help, it will be much appreciated.

 Regards

 Anthony

 --

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [3][4][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

 References

   1. [5][7]https://yho.com/footer0

   2. [6][8]https://www.audacityteam.org/

   3. [7][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

   Referenc

[LUTE] Re : Re: An Application which allows Single track recording and recognises an external mic?

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Martyn

 I was doing something similar to your suggestion by connecting my
   condenser mic through focusrite  directly to my Mac and using Amadeus
   which I prefer to Audacity; but this meant getting up from my playing
   position to start and stop recordings etc. I found using FiRe or Tape
   on my iPad more convenient as I could control everything while playing.
   I did then download to my Mac and Amadeus.

   I realize you can do that very well from a Zoom, and perhaps I will
   acquire one if I cannot replace FiRe; but I found the sound quality of
   this setup with condenser mic, focusrite, FiRe and IPad/iphone good
   enough for evaluating progress, or the lack of it (more often
   unfortunately).

   But I will keep your suggestion in mind, thanks Martyn,

   Regards

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, décembre 16, 2019, 12:26 PM, Martyn Hodgson
a écrit :

   Dear Anthony,
   You might find it helpful to download your recording onto a PC or
   tablet (from whatever recording device - I use a Zoom H2) and then use
   software like Audacity to produce a recording as you would wish it ie
   without ridiculously excessive 'sound engineering' with, as you say,
   things like the added resonances of GarageBand.
   [2]https://www.audacityteam.org/
   And no, I'm not on commision!
   regards
   Martyn
   On Monday, 16 December 2019, 10:32:09 GMT, Anthony Hind
wrote:
 Dear Luthenists
   I am looking for a very simple app which will recognise the
 presence of a mic and preamp such as Focusrite connected to the
 lightning connector of my iPad or iPhone, but which will make a
   single
 track mono recording of my lute without the unnecessary multitrack
 complexities and added resonances of GarageBand.
 I used to use the excellent app FiRe, but it no longer works, as it
 hasn't been updated; I then used Tape by focusrite which worked
   alright
 on my iPad, but now has become temperamental. Impact by focusrite
 apparently works well but only for audiovideo. Rode Rec Le looks a
   good
 candidate but apparently it only works with a Rode mic (at least that
 is what they claim). I use the excellent Voice Recorder Pro for
   casual
 recording with the internal mics on my iPhone, but I don't think it
   can
 recognise an external mic. If anyone has found and uses successfully
 such an App, please let me know on or off list.
 Thank you for your help, it will be much appreciated.
 Regards
 Anthony
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://yho.com/footer0
   2. https://www.audacityteam.org/
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] An Application which allows Single track recording and recognises an external mic?

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Luthenists

 I am looking for a very simple app which will recognise the
   presence of a mic and preamp such as Focusrite connected to the
   lightning connector of my iPad or iPhone, but which will make a single
   track mono recording of my lute without the unnecessary multitrack
   complexities and added resonances of GarageBand.

   I used to use the excellent app FiRe, but it no longer works, as it
   hasn't been updated; I then used Tape by focusrite which worked alright
   on my iPad, but now has become temperamental. Impact by focusrite
   apparently works well but only for audiovideo. Rode Rec Le looks a good
   candidate but apparently it only works with a Rode mic (at least that
   is what they claim). I use the excellent Voice Recorder Pro for casual
   recording with the internal mics on my iPhone, but I don't think it can
   recognise an external mic. If anyone has found and uses successfully
   such an App, please let me know on or off list.

   Thank you for your help, it will be much appreciated.

   Regards

   Anthony
   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Anthony Hind]

   Sounds as though it might well do the trick, but I think it is more the
   skill of the restorer than the glue used.

   I can't see any difference between the treated and the non treated
   area. I couldn't possibly have done that myself, but he is a first rate
   restorer and also has the good neighbourliness of living 30 meters from
   my place. The other day the table of my Haycock lute came away but two
   days later it was already firmly back in place for which I heartily
   thank him.
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, novembre 29, 2019, 8:55 PM, John Mardinly
a écrit :

 An alternative to super glue based fillers I would suggest is an
   epoxy

 I used for many years in electron microscopes called 'Torr Seal',
   which

 appears to be still available. It is a 2-part epoxy, so it must be

 mixed before application, but it is incredibly hard because the
   filler

 is finely powdered sapphire particles and the epoxy itself is much

 stronger than superglue. Downside is that it is expensive ($50),

 although one tube will probably repair hundreds of nuts and it has a

 long shelf life.


   [1][2]https://www.lesker.com/newweb/fluids/pdf/torrsealspecifications.p
   df

 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey
   <[2][3]stevera...@sbcglobal.net>

 wrote:

 Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may

 help.

 [3]The baking soda and super glue trick

   [youtube.png]

   The baking soda and super glue trick

 "Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?" Lou,
   a

 singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi...

 HTH,

 Steve

 On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly

 <[4][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

   I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter

 strings,

   especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a
   âv'

   shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of

   magic epoxy?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind

   <[1][5][5]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C

 was

 set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar
   happened

   to

 me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4
   with

 equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I
   put

   the

 Venices back and the problem went away.

 However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle

 appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear
   had

 slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could

 have

 changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said

 he

 could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's

 dentine.

 This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves
   could

 possibly work for you.

 On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like

 yourself,

   I

 have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT
   octave,

   but

 I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was
   set

 up

 for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove

 Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will

 last

   a

 lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.

 Am I wrong about that?

 Best wishes

 Anthony

 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams

 <[2][6][6]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :

   I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my
   8

   course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave
   half

   the

   diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g
   on

   6th

   blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding

   jangly,

   almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was

   poor

   (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched
   back

 to

   unison.

   I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion,
   same

   stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the
   height

 of

 the

   octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the

   bridge,

   but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly,
   with

   the

   octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot,

 wh

[LUTE] Re : Re : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Anthony Hind]

   Well, I just went back to Martin's interesting discussion on the use of
   Octaves around the 1590s and he gives good arguments for their use in
   John Johnson, Francis Cutting and Anthony Holborne, so perhaps I should
   attempt to move to Bass and octave on C5 whatever the difficulty.

   Regards

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, novembre 29, 2019, 10:42 AM, Anthony Hind
a écrit :

 Just another thought, I think I originally chose Unissons on 5C
   because

 I thought I might be playing more latish English renaissance pieces,

 Dowland, Holborne etc. I note most speakers here seem to prefer 5C
   with

 octaves whatever the music? I seem to remember Martin Shepherd

 discussing this issue on his site.

 Regards

 Anthony

 [1]Envoyà © depuis Yahoo Mail pour iPhone

 Le jeudi, novembre 28, 2019, 2:56 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier

 <[2]fournier...@gmail.com> a à ©crit :

   Love 5th and 6th in octaves...only play that way.

   Le sam. 23 nov. 2019 5 h 10 p.m., Edward Martin

   <[1][2][3]edvihuel...@gmail.com> a à ©crit  :

 I think you will be surprised at how you will like the 5 th

 course in

 octaves. Good luck!

 Sent from my iPhone

   On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Jurgen Frenz

   <[2][3][4]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 Ã ¯ » ¿

 Hello Edward,

 thank you very much, I feel encouraged now to "go octaves"
   all

 the way

 down from 5th. course.I should consider myself stupid that I

 hesitated,

 because who is there to judge me apart from myself. I am not

 competing

 in any academic exercise :-)

 Thank you very  much again, gut is cost-wise prohibitive to
   me.

 Best regards

 Jurgen

 --

 "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

 JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi

 à ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢ Original Message à ¢Ã ¢Ã 
¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢Ã ¢

 On Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:16 PM, Edward Martin

 <[3][4][5]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello Jurgen,

 I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not
   sound

 as

 brilliant as with octaves.  Of course, it is a compromise,
   but

 on my

 8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8  and like it very

 much.

 Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the

 5th

 course

 in octaves, as it brightens up the sound.  I do not see it as

 confusing

 the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and

 complexity

 of the

 sound.  Another thing that could very much improve the sound
   is

 to use

 gut.  If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for

 octaves.

 On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz

 <[1][4][5][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

   Hello there,

   I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the
   beginning

 I'm

   "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I

 changed

 the

   plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it

 sounds

 quite

   the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we

 have on

 6c

   instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the

 current

 sound

   "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try
   out

 the

   Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would

 recover

 high

   frequencies with them.

   Any remedies that you have tried out with success other
   than

 "just

 get

   used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea

 because

 it

 would

   confuse voices.

   Hoping for some suggestions,

   Jurgen

   --

   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÃl ad-DÃ Ã ¯ ¿ ½n Muhammad Rumi

 To get on or off this list see list information at


   [2][5][6][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

 References

 1. mailto:[6][7][8]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com

 2.
   [7][8][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

 Refere

[LUTE] Re : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes "dentine"

[Anthony Hind]

   I asked my lute maker friend and he told me he makes his own dentine
   with bone filings and superglue. I tend to do the same with wood filler
   using wood filings from the same wood mixed in wood glue.

   Regards

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, novembre 29, 2019, 12:06 AM, John Mardinly
a écrit :

 Well, the non-silver composites used for fillings today do have

 phenomenal properties, but I thought they all needed a special light
   to

 cure them.

 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 On Nov 28, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Anthony Hind

 <[1][2]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   A lutemaker friend did the work and I can't distinguish it from the

   original bone on the nut.

   He called it dentine. It seemed to be liquid and in a small bottle.

   Perhaps it's a sort of ceramic used for filling front teeth, but I

   admit I'm not sure. Perhaps a lute maker on the list will know.

   Best

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le jeudi, novembre 28, 2019, 10:59 PM, John Mardinly

   <[2][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> a à ©crit :

   I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter

 strings,

   especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a
   âv'

   shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of

   magic epoxy?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind

   <[2][3][4]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C

 was

 set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar
   happened

   to

 me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4
   with

 equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I
   put

   the

 Venices back and the problem went away.

 However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle

 appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear
   had

 slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could

 have

 changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said

 he

 could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's

 dentine.

 This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves
   could

 possibly work for you.

 On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like

 yourself,

   I

 have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT
   octave,

   but

 I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was
   set

 up

 for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove

 Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will

 last

   a

 lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.

 Am I wrong about that?

 Best wishes

 Anthony

 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams

 <[3][4][5]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :

   I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my
   8

   course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave
   half

   the

   diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g
   on

   6th

   blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding

   jangly,

   almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was

   poor

   (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched
   back

 to

   unison.

   I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion,
   same

   stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the
   height

 of

 the

   octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the

   bridge,

   but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly,
   with

   the

   octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot,

 what

   little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps
   further

 work

   with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any
   other

   suggestions??

   Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!

   Leonard Williams

   On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz

   <[1][2][4][5][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 Hello there,

 I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm

 "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed

   the

 plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds

   quite

 the same. 

[LUTE] Re : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Anthony Hind]

   Just another thought, I think I originally chose Unissons on 5C because
   I thought I might be playing more latish English renaissance pieces,
   Dowland, Holborne etc. I note most speakers here seem to prefer 5C with
   octaves whatever the music? I seem to remember Martin Shepherd
   discussing this issue on his site.

   Regards

   Anthony
   [1]Envoyé depuis Yahoo Mail pour iPhone

   Le jeudi, novembre 28, 2019, 2:56 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
a écrit :

 Love 5th and 6th in octaves...only play that way.

 Le sam. 23 nov. 2019 5 h 10 p.m., Edward Martin

 <[1][2]edvihuel...@gmail.com> a à ©crit  :

   I think you will be surprised at how you will like the 5 th

   course in

   octaves. Good luck!

   Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Jurgen Frenz

 <[2][3]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

   ï » ¿

   Hello Edward,

   thank you very much, I feel encouraged now to "go octaves" all

   the way

   down from 5th. course.I should consider myself stupid that I

   hesitated,

   because who is there to judge me apart from myself. I am not

   competing

   in any academic exercise :-)

   Thank you very  much again, gut is cost-wise prohibitive to me.

   Best regards

   Jurgen

   --

   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

   JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi

   âââââââ Original Message 
âââââââ

   On Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:16 PM, Edward Martin

   <[3][4]edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Hello Jurgen,

   I agree that in with 8-course lutes, they do tend to not sound
   as

   brilliant as with octaves.  Of course, it is a compromise, but

   on my

   8-course lute, I have octaves on 5,6,7, & 8  and like it very

   much.

   Whatever brand of strings you try, I think you will like the
   5th

   course

   in octaves, as it brightens up the sound.  I do not see it as

   confusing

   the voices as you say, but adding to the richness and
   complexity

   of the

   sound.  Another thing that could very much improve the sound is

   to use

   gut.  If you do not want gut, at least consider using gut for

   octaves.

   On Sat, Nov 23, 2019 at 6:19 AM Jurgen Frenz

   <[1][4][5]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 Hello there,

 I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning

   I'm

 "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I

   changed

   the

 plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it

   sounds

   quite

 the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we

   have on

   6c

 instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the

   current

   sound

 "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out

   the

 Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would
   recover

   high

 frequencies with them.

 Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than

   "just

   get

 used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea
   because

   it

   would

 confuse voices.

 Hoping for some suggestions,

 Jurgen

 --

 "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

 JalÃl ad-Dà ï ¿ ½n Muhammad Rumi

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [2][5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

   References

   1. mailto:[6][7]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com

   2. [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 --

   References

 1. mailto:[9]edvihuel...@gmail.com

 2. mailto:[10]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com

 3. mailto:[11]edvihuel...@gmail.com

 4. mailto:[12]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com

 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 6. mailto:[14]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com

 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   4. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   5. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
  

[LUTE] Re : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Anthony Hind]

   A lutemaker friend did the work and I can't distinguish it from the
   original bone on the nut.

   He called it dentine. It seemed to be liquid and in a small bottle.
   Perhaps it's a sort of ceramic used for filling front teeth, but I
   admit I'm not sure. Perhaps a lute maker on the list will know.

   Best

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le jeudi, novembre 28, 2019, 10:59 PM, John Mardinly
a écrit :

   I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings,
   especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv'
   shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of
   magic epoxy?
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind
   <[2]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was
 set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened
   to
 me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with
 equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put
   the
 Venices back and the problem went away.
 However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle
 appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had
 slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have
 changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he
 could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine.
 This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could
 possibly work for you.
 On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself,
   I
 have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave,
   but
 I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up
 for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
 Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last
   a
 lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
 Am I wrong about that?
 Best wishes
 Anthony
 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
 <[3]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :
   I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8
   course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave half
   the
   diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g on
   6th
   blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding
   jangly,
   almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was
   poor
   (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched back to
   unison.
   I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same
   stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of
 the
   octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the
   bridge,
   but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with
   the
   octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot, what
   little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps further
 work
   with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any other
   suggestions??
   Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
   Leonard Williams
   On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
   <[1][2][4]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 Hello there,

 I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm

 "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed

   the

 plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds

   quite

 the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on

   6c

 instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current

   sound

 "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the

 Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover

 high

 frequencies with them.

 Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just

   get

 used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it

   would

 confuse voices.

 Hoping for some suggestions,

 Jurgen

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 References
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   2

[LUTE] Re : Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[Anthony Hind]

   Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was
   set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened to
   me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with
   equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put the
   Venices back and the problem went away.

   However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle
   appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had
   slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have
   changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he
   could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine.
   This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could
   possibly work for you.

   On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself, I
   have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave, but
   I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up
   for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove

   Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last a
   lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.

   Am I wrong about that?

   Best wishes

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
a écrit :

 I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8

 course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave half the

 diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g on 6th

 blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding jangly,

 almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was poor

 (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched back to

 unison.

 I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same

 stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of
   the

 octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the bridge,

 but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with the

 octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot, what

 little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps further
   work

 with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any other

 suggestions??

 Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!

 Leonard Williams

 On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz

 <[1][2]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 >  Hello there,

 >

 >  I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm

 >  "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed

 the

 >  plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds

 quite

 >  the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on

 6c

 >  instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current

 sound

 >  "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the

 >  Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover
   high

 >  frequencies with them.

 >

 >  Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just

 get

 >  used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it

 would

 >  confuse voices.

 >

 >  Hoping for some suggestions,

 >  Jurgen

 >

 >  --

 >  "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

 >

 >  JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi

 >

 >

 > To get on or off this list see list information at

 > [2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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[LUTE] Meanes and Octaves

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Lutenists
  I have been using Venice gut twine (rather than high twist
   gut) on my Baroque lute for position C6 and C5 (Meanes) as well as for
   most Bass octaves, for their excellent flexibility and so good
   harmonicity. I know that some Lutenists similarly use Savarez Kf for
   their brightness and thinness in such positions (compared to thicker HT
   gut or standard NNG) and that Mimmo has developed Sugarcane based NNG
   for exactly similar effect instead of regular NNG. Personally, I would
   prefer to stay with gut in such crucial but non fragile uses, but
   wonder whether anyone has tried Aquila unsplit gut in these positions,
   and if so did it show improved harmonicity and possibly better focus
   compared to regular HT gut? Presumably it would be just as thick as HT
   gut in the same position so shouldn't be any brighter but the structure
   is different and the fibres might move more freely giving some sort of
   improved harmonicity or less phase issues. I seem to remember similar
   remarks about the effects on the signal of singlecore compared to multi
   strand interconnects (unsplit gut compared to split gut, as it were?)
   but such analogy is probably quite mistaken.
   Any ideas or experience on this sort of use would be gratefully
   received.
   Regards
   Anthony
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[LUTE] Thomann Canterella and LLD lutes

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Bruno and other Lutenists

  Following on from questions raised by Bruno Carneiro and others
   about Thomann Canterlla lutes being possible copies of LLD lutes, I see
   Braedon Hofmann has posted this video about this question:

   [1]https://youtu.be/VcOIeVwCOv0

   Regards

   Anthony

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[LUTE] Re Thomann Cantarella lower priced LLD lutes?

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Lutenists David and Bruno

  I contacted the French company on this issue as to whether there
   were any authorised distributors for their lutes and they assured me
   that there were none. The factories producing LLD lutes and cases are
   under exclusive contracts with LLD. This production entirely designed
   by lute experts in Paris is also quality controlled before sale by
   these same experts here in Paris. Thus if there are copies of these
   instruments being sold by any other outlet, be aware that they would
   not have undergone the same strict quality control and the setup would
   not have been checked by the same experts. Copies might also be
   infringing copyright which takes into account the intellectual
   engagement of the LLD experts.

   Regards

   Anthony

   PS There is also a statement on this issue on the LLD Facebook Page.

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[LUTE] Sorry airywave = Airyware tuner

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists

I made a slip with the name of the tuner app, it is Airyware tuner
   and not Airywave tuner (perhaps I felt Airywave was a better name.

   Apologies for any time spent searching,

   Regards

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

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[LUTE] Airywave tuner

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Lutenists
 I wonder whether any other lutenists are using the strobe and
   needle Airywave tuner app, preset for various lute types (and numerous
   other instruments) with historic temperaments (900 alternative
   tunings). The display is so easily readable on my iPad that I rarely
   reach for my turbo-strobe tuner, my Korg Orchestal or my Cleartune app.
   Has any other tuner user found this app useful? I am surprised not to
   have heard mention of it. It can of course  produce reference tones for
   those who rightly prefer to tune more by ear than by eye.
   Apologies if this rings like an advert, but I have found it so useful,
   other users may in fact have found fault with it.
   Regards
   Anthony

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[LUTE] Re : Re: Builder of Hard Cases

[Anthony Hind]

   Hello

  Victor Vorko, unless I am mistaken, makes superb cases out of
   traditional materials, but not I think aluminium. It is Pierre
   Rousseau, I believe who makes light metal cases.

   Regards

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, septembre 7, 2018, 7:39 PM, Greet Schamp
a écrit :

   Renzo Salvador makes his own lutecases, golden ones, very nice, but I
   don't know if he makes cases for other lutes than those built by
   himself. He is based in Liege Luttich, not so far from the Eiffel

   [2]https://www.renzosalvador.be/

   Victor Vorko based in Paris makes aluminium cases for lutes
   [3]https://www.victorvorko.com/

   Greet Schamp

   Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10

   Van: Dan Winheld

   Verzonden: vrijdag 7 september 2018 18:49

   Aan: howard posner; lutelist Net

   Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: Builder of Hard Cases

   Obviously we need good, protective hard cases for umlauts too.

   On 9/6/2018 11:39 PM, howard posner wrote:

   >> On Sep 6, 2018, at 11:21 PM, Stephan Olbertz
   <[4]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:

   >>

   >> Umlaut-trouble again...

   > "Holger Gotz" (with umlaut) actually came through perfectly on my my
   email, without the digital garbage that you got on the copy sent back
   to you.  Don't ask me to explain why my email server in California
   handled the umlaut better than yours in Germany.

   >

   >

   >

   > To get on or off this list see list information at

   > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   >

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References

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   2. https://www.renzosalvador.be/
   3. https://www.victorvorko.com/
   4. mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re : Re: Loose frets

[Anthony Hind]

   A very good tip, John, as is the idea of pre-wetting the fret material.
   I wish I had thought of that these last few years, suffering from
   severely slipping frets in similar changing conditions. However, as I
   had resorted to a nylgut chanterelle, which quickly frays gut frets, I
   decided to try Mimmo's new synthetic fret material. This has only been
   on my lute for a few weeks, so I can't report on durability; however, I
   can say that, as expected, this material is not effected by humidity,
   but also less expectedly, it seems slightly softer than modern gut
   (therefore, presumably not from Nylgut, as has been suggested). This
   would have the advantage of not damaging gut strings, as reportedly
   nylgut frets would do; but the possible disadvantage of making stopped
   strings sound very slightly softer (but less so, I would judge, than
   the much softer sounding double gut frets, with which I do have
   experience, and appreciated for their greater durability). In spite of
   their slippery surface, with the knot advised for them by Mimmo, they
   do seem to slip far less than gut frets.

   Regards
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le lundi, mars 12, 2018, 8:13 AM, John Lenti  a
   écrit :

 I'm a little reluctant to share something that might seem almost

 immoral, but what the hell, I make my living playing the lute and I
   tie

 a lot of frets, so I'll chip in here: when I go, as I do almost
   weekly,

 from my home in Seattle, where the weather is always perfect for

 gut-strung-and-fretted instruments, to a place like the mountains of

 Montana or the desert of Tucson and the humidity is 1% and my frets

 (usually it's 1, 5, and 6 on my main touring instrument) start
   slipping

 and sliding around, and I don't feel like re-fretting, I tape them
   down

 with masking tape.

 Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10

   __

 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf

 of howard posner <[4]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>

 Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 9:01:32 AM

 To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets

 > On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:12 AM, John Mardinly
   <[6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>

 wrote:

 >

 >  My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are

 >  metal.

 I want to know how you tied them on in the first place.  You must
   have

 really strong fingers.

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   4. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
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[LUTE] Re : Re: New music

[Anthony Hind]

   At our local lute salon I heard Susan King playing both pieces by
   Gallot, and contemporary pieces, which I believe were composed for her
   by an Australian composer, or composers.

   Personally, I am very interested in sound texture, which draws me as
   much to French baroque music, particularly on gut strung lutes, as to
   much contemporary music. A few years ago I was very impressed by a
   Korean performance of the Bourgeois Gentilhomme here in Paris, in
   Korean with the music of Lulli played on historic instruments (but
   these were Korean instruments). I was not the only one to revel in the
   sweet and sour of a well known text and music shifted into a new (for
   me) sound world.

   Regards
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, décembre 22, 2017, 9:05 PM, David van Ooijen
    a écrit :

 On 22 December 2017 at 20:13, Ron Andrico
   <[1][2]praelu...@hotmail.com>

 wrote:

 >>

   new music for the lute is not

   taught in conservatories

 <<

 It was part of my conservatory training.

 David

 --

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[LUTE] Rode Rec for casual mono track recording of lute on iPhone?

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Luthenists

 Having just lost the use of my FiRe recorder App when changing
   iPhones, I see this App is no longer supported, as it was bought up by
   Rode, who have no upgrade policy for the original App. I would use FiRe
   for casual mono track recording of the lute when on the move, and as a
   phonetician, I liked the clear way the wave form was presented,
   permitting partial extract looping, etc., and the fairly good sound
   quality. I am willing to pay the full new price, around 6 euros for the
   new Rode App, but French user comments are not very positive, claiming
   it is rather bugged. Do any of you use this app, if so, is it as good
   or better than FiRe, or are there other apps that I should now consider
   for casual but goodish quality mono track recording?

   I apologise if this has already been discussed elsewhere.

   Best regards

   Anthony
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] "Psych=C3=A9,_The_French_Weiss"?=

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Baroque lutenists,

   Benjamin Narvey's new recording "Psyché, The French Weiss", is
   now available for preorder.

[1]Psyché

Psyché

   (BUTTON)
   You can support this recording here:

   [indiegogo.png]

   (BUTTON)

   Best wishes

   Anthony

   --

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[LUTE] Psych=C3=A9,_The_French_Weiss,_recordi?= ng_by_Benjamin_Narvey,_with_Gamut?=

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists,

   Benjamin Narvey's new recording "Psyché, The French Weiss", is
   now available for preorder.

[1]Psyché

Psyché

   You can support this recording here:

   [indiegogo.png]

   Best wishes

   Anthony

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[LUTE] _=5FGautier=5Fin=5Fviel=5Fton=3F=3D?=

[Anthony Hind]

   Very glad to hear this, Jean Marie, I'll be looking forward to reading
   your sfl article, and hopefully hearing your programme at St Jean.

   Best wishes come

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le dimanche, février 12, 2017, 11:23 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier
   <jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> a écrit :

   Dear Anthony,
   Thank you for your messages. Well, actually there is nothing planned
   for St Jean this year... But we still have plenty of time !
   I thought to propose a programme with a singer rather than a solo
   recital, but nothing has been decided yet !
   I am currently writing an article  for the Société Française de Luth
   about the early and middle baroque French lute "school" and trying to
   clear up some of the confusion due to the multiple tunings used at the
   time (1600 - 1650). I will translate it for the American Lute Society
   afterwards as I was requested by Nancy Carlin... Quite a bit of work to
   do then !
   Best wishes to you,
   Jean-Marie
   --
   >  Dear Jean Marie
   >
   >  Might this be part of your coming programme for St Jean?
   >
   >  Looking forward to it, if so.
   >
   >  Regards
   >
   >  Anthony
   >
   >  [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   >
   >  Le samedi, fÃÆÃ ©vrier 11, 2017, 1:51 PM, Anthony Hind
   >  <[2]agno3ph...@yahoo.com> a ÃÆÃ ©crit :
   >
   >Makes me think of the Sarabande de Gautier de Lyon, which would be
   >neither a Saraband (Chaconne in A), nor by Gauthier (according to
   >Joel Dugot)', not at all in his style?
   >
   >  Very much looking forward to hearing your CD of Vieil-ton pieces,
   when
   >  you finally record it, and hopefully to read the results of your
   >  stylistic research.
   >
   >  I suppose pieces occurring in later manuscripts (particularly
   >  D-minor ones) even if they are attributed could be later
   >  interpretations (according to later tastes), by a later lutenist of
   a
   >  well-known piece, so possibly very far from the original (even with
   >  change of tuning).
   >  Then a name in a tittle, might only mean after the style of, or
   >  possibly in memory of; while the perhaps  "de" as in "tombeau de X"
   >  could mean "by X", or "for X".
   >  Regards
   >  Anthony
   >  [2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   >
   >  Le vendredi, fÃÆÃ ©vrier 10, 2017, 6:24 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier
   >  <[3]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> a ÃÆÃ ©crit :
   >
   >  I agree with Ronabout mis-attributions of "Gautier" pieces to
   Jacques
   >  or Ennemond.
   >  I have been doing quite a bit of research on that topic and am
   actually
   >  planning to record the
   >  pieces in vieil ton attributed to "Gautier" 'whatever the spelling)
   >  along with the pieces by MÃÆÃ ©sangeau and Lespine,
   >  when I get the funding...
   >  All these peopole are more or less exact contemporaries, including
   >  Robert Ballard and teheir style is very
   >  coherent indeed. Sometimes Jacques Gaultier distinguishes himself,
   not
   >  only by using a 12 course lute, but by a
   >  different style too, not as "continental" as the others. But I must
   >  agree that the distinction is very very hard to do sometimes.
   >  He (Jacques) left Frace not to return, in 1617 when the others were
   >  starting careers at court or in the service of rich nobles. Very
   much a
   >  sort of emerging "French school" there.
   >  What is also interesting is that, some of them, Mesangeau, Ballard,
   >  Lespine, and some "Gaultier", very probably Ennemond most of the
   time,
   >  are also represented in the accord nouveaux repertoire.
   >  And yet, strangely enough Vieux Gaultier is mainly known for his
   pieces
   >  in baroque tuning.
   >  Knowing that the first publication using this d minor tuning was by
   >  Bouvier in 1638, it is hard to believe that Vieux Gaultier, who was
   >  about 63 then and retiring to his original DauphinÃÆÃ ©,
   >  after the banishment of his employer, Queen Mother Marie de Medicis,
   >  would have built up his immense reputation on pieces in the new
   baroque
   >  tuning in the last 14 years of his life.
   >  So it is a matter rational reasoning to admit of that a good deal of
   >  his production lies in manuscripts in vieil ton and accord nouveaux.
   >  And there is some evidence, (scant at the moment but in it's a work
   >  progress) that pieces in transitional tuning also appear a bit later
   on
   >  in the D minor tuning...
   >  Best,
   >  Jean-Marie Poirier
   >  --
   >  >  Dear Ron,
   >  >  I have a whole volume of vieux Gautier by CNRS. A

[LUTE] _Gautier_in_viel_ton?=

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Jean Marie

  Might this be part of your coming programme for St Jean?

   Looking forward to it, if so.

   Regards

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le samedi, février 11, 2017, 1:51 PM, Anthony Hind
   <agno3ph...@yahoo.com> a écrit :

 Makes me think of the Sarabande de Gautier de Lyon, which would be
 neither a Saraband (Chaconne in A), nor by Gauthier (according to
 Joel Dugot)', not at all in his style?

   Very much looking forward to hearing your CD of Vieil-ton pieces, when
   you finally record it, and hopefully to read the results of your
   stylistic research.

   I suppose pieces occurring in later manuscripts (particularly
   D-minor ones) even if they are attributed could be later
   interpretations (according to later tastes), by a later lutenist of a
   well-known piece, so possibly very far from the original (even with
   change of tuning).
   Then a name in a tittle, might only mean after the style of, or
   possibly in memory of; while the perhaps  "de" as in "tombeau de X"
   could mean "by X", or "for X".
   Regards
   Anthony
   [2]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 10, 2017, 6:24 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier
   <jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> a écrit :

   I agree with Ronabout mis-attributions of "Gautier" pieces to Jacques
   or Ennemond.
   I have been doing quite a bit of research on that topic and am actually
   planning to record the
   pieces in vieil ton attributed to "Gautier" 'whatever the spelling)
   along with the pieces by Mésangeau and Lespine,
   when I get the funding...
   All these peopole are more or less exact contemporaries, including
   Robert Ballard and teheir style is very
   coherent indeed. Sometimes Jacques Gaultier distinguishes himself, not
   only by using a 12 course lute, but by a
   different style too, not as "continental" as the others. But I must
   agree that the distinction is very very hard to do sometimes.
   He (Jacques) left Frace not to return, in 1617 when the others were
   starting careers at court or in the service of rich nobles. Very much a
   sort of emerging "French school" there.
   What is also interesting is that, some of them, Mesangeau, Ballard,
   Lespine, and some "Gaultier", very probably Ennemond most of the time,
   are also represented in the accord nouveaux repertoire.
   And yet, strangely enough Vieux Gaultier is mainly known for his pieces
   in baroque tuning.
   Knowing that the first publication using this d minor tuning was by
   Bouvier in 1638, it is hard to believe that Vieux Gaultier, who was
   about 63 then and retiring to his original Dauphiné,
   after the banishment of his employer, Queen Mother Marie de Medicis,
   would have built up his immense reputation on pieces in the new baroque
   tuning in the last 14 years of his life.
   So it is a matter rational reasoning to admit of that a good deal of
   his production lies in manuscripts in vieil ton and accord nouveaux.
   And there is some evidence, (scant at the moment but in it's a work
   progress) that pieces in transitional tuning also appear a bit later on
   in the D minor tuning...
   Best,
   Jean-Marie Poirier
   --
   >  Dear Ron,
   >  I have a whole volume of vieux Gautier by CNRS. Are you saying their
   >  scholarship is mostly just speculation?
   >  G.
   >  On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Ron Andrico
   <[1][3]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   >  wrote:
   >
   >Hello Rainer:
   >As you know from John Robinson's list, most of the manuscript
   >pieces in
   >old tuning cited merely indicate various spellings of
   "Gautier",
   >and
   >there are no firm attributions to Ennemond.  However, I
   believe
   >that a
   >handful of pieces from Herbert are by Ennemond and not by
   Jacques
   >as
   >they are usually speculatively ascribed.  My attribution is
   >likewise
   >pure speculation but based on sound reasoning.
   >Mary Burwell's anonymous lute tutor described Jacques as
   having a
   >thunderous approach to playing his basses, which may very well
   >only
   >have been a critique of his extended-bass instrument.But
   if
   >you
   >spend a bit of time with Ennemond's music in d-minor tuning,
   you
   >can
   >develop a sense of his style, which appears quite simple but
   is
   >very
   >delicate and nuanced.
   >Try the courante in Herbert f. 37, for instance, and the
   simpler
   >but
   >very delicate courante in Herbert f. 40v.  I also tend to
   think
   >Aegidius f. 67v and f. 100v are by Ennemond.
   >RA
   >  _

[LUTE] _Gautier_in_viel_ton?=

[Anthony Hind]

   Makes me think of the Sarabande de Gautier de Lyon, which would be
   neither a Saraband (Chaconne in A), nor by Gauthier (according to Joel
   Dugot)', not at all in his style?

   Very much looking forward to hearing your CD of Vieil-ton pieces, when
   you finally record it, and hopefully to read the results of your
   stylistic research.

   I suppose pieces occurring in later manuscripts (particularly
   D-minor ones) even if they are attributed could be later
   interpretations (according to later tastes), by a later lutenist of a
   well-known piece, so possibly very far from the original (even with
   change of tuning).
   Then a name in a tittle, might only mean after the style of, or
   possibly in memory of; while the perhaps  "de" as in "tombeau de X"
   could mean "by X", or "for X".
   Regards
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 10, 2017, 6:24 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier
    a écrit :

   I agree with Ronabout mis-attributions of "Gautier" pieces to Jacques
   or Ennemond.
   I have been doing quite a bit of research on that topic and am actually
   planning to record the
   pieces in vieil ton attributed to "Gautier" 'whatever the spelling)
   along with the pieces by Mésangeau and Lespine,
   when I get the funding...
   All these peopole are more or less exact contemporaries, including
   Robert Ballard and teheir style is very
   coherent indeed. Sometimes Jacques Gaultier distinguishes himself, not
   only by using a 12 course lute, but by a
   different style too, not as "continental" as the others. But I must
   agree that the distinction is very very hard to do sometimes.
   He (Jacques) left Frace not to return, in 1617 when the others were
   starting careers at court or in the service of rich nobles. Very much a
   sort of emerging "French school" there.
   What is also interesting is that, some of them, Mesangeau, Ballard,
   Lespine, and some "Gaultier", very probably Ennemond most of the time,
   are also represented in the accord nouveaux repertoire.
   And yet, strangely enough Vieux Gaultier is mainly known for his pieces
   in baroque tuning.
   Knowing that the first publication using this d minor tuning was by
   Bouvier in 1638, it is hard to believe that Vieux Gaultier, who was
   about 63 then and retiring to his original Dauphiné,
   after the banishment of his employer, Queen Mother Marie de Medicis,
   would have built up his immense reputation on pieces in the new baroque
   tuning in the last 14 years of his life.
   So it is a matter rational reasoning to admit of that a good deal of
   his production lies in manuscripts in vieil ton and accord nouveaux.
   And there is some evidence, (scant at the moment but in it's a work
   progress) that pieces in transitional tuning also appear a bit later on
   in the D minor tuning...
   Best,
   Jean-Marie Poirier
   --
   >  Dear Ron,
   >  I have a whole volume of vieux Gautier by CNRS. Are you saying their
   >  scholarship is mostly just speculation?
   >  G.
   >  On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Ron Andrico
   <[1][2]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   >  wrote:
   >
   >Hello Rainer:
   >As you know from John Robinson's list, most of the manuscript
   >pieces in
   >old tuning cited merely indicate various spellings of
   "Gautier",
   >and
   >there are no firm attributions to Ennemond.  However, I
   believe
   >that a
   >handful of pieces from Herbert are by Ennemond and not by
   Jacques
   >as
   >they are usually speculatively ascribed.  My attribution is
   >likewise
   >pure speculation but based on sound reasoning.
   >Mary Burwell's anonymous lute tutor described Jacques as
   having a
   >thunderous approach to playing his basses, which may very well
   >only
   >have been a critique of his extended-bass instrument.But
   if
   >you
   >spend a bit of time with Ennemond's music in d-minor tuning,
   you
   >can
   >develop a sense of his style, which appears quite simple but
   is
   >very
   >delicate and nuanced.
   >Try the courante in Herbert f. 37, for instance, and the
   simpler
   >but
   >very delicate courante in Herbert f. 40v.  I also tend to
   think
   >Aegidius f. 67v and f. 100v are by Ennemond.
   >RA
   >  
   >__
   >From: [2][3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   <[3][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >on behalf
   >of Rainer <[4][5]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   >Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 2:54 PM
   >To: Lute net
   >Subject: [LUTE] Gautier in viel ton
   >Dear lute netters,
   >can anybody recommend pieces by Ennemond Gautier in viel ton
   >(with
   >sources)?
   >I have 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing (corrected)

[Anthony Hind]

   Apologies for the message that shot off (my computer has a mind of its
   own...)

   Thanks JarosÅaw
  Whereas professional loaded bass users were forced to look for
   reliable replacements (experimenting with Gimped, pure gut, ropes or
   otherwise, KF etc), I was just keeping my old loaded basses going and
   rather lost contact with the bass string questio; so really had little
   to add.
   After a friend changed over to silver gimped I was considering doing
   the same, when Mimmo brought out the new synthetic ones. I did follow
   from afar what a few others were doing.
   In respect to Venices, perhaps your difference of appreciation,
   compared to Martin, could result from your using them at different
   tensions: I imagine they would not work well at the low tensions Martin
   may perhaps have tried them. Indeed I use my Venice octaves at a higher
   tension than my basses, and love them in that use.
   On the question of more or less sustain on basses, I suppose we all
   adapt by tweaking our styles and tensions to our string choices; but
   just the fact that French lutenists sought out vintage lutes, could
   according to Jakob Lindberg's experience with the Rauwolf, imply
   articulate sustain was very important to them, and so possibly also for
   their basses? perhaps ...
   Best wishes
   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   On samedi, février 4, 2017, 11:51 AM, JarosÅaw Lipski
   <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl> wrote:

   Hello Anthony,
   I am fine, thank you. I haven't heard from you for a while, but it's
   nice to see you on our lute list again :)
   Actually I meant KF strings. String ends have to be split (whittled if
   you like), otherwise they are so stiff that tying them would be very
   difficult. Also they wouldn't form a proper knot and initial point of
   vibration would be further away from the bridge. In general this kind
   of problem is characteristic for very stiff strings. Fortunately
   Venices  due to their rope construction are much more pliable, so there
   is no problem with attaching them at the bridge.
   Best wishes
   Jaroslaw
   > On 04 Feb 2017, at 00:20, Anthony Hind <[2]agno3ph...@yahoo.com>
   wrote:
   >
   > Hello Jaroslaw
   >I hope things are going well with you.
   > When you say of your Venice, "Yes, mine have split ends at the
   bridge." Do you mean you have managed to separate the ends of the twine
   and pass them separately through the bridge hole?
   > This is what Charles Besnainou does with his spring twines. This
   results probably in a lower impedance in the same way as Martin's
   whittled down KFs, I would suppose?
   > Best wishes
   > Anthony
   >
   >
   > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <[3]https://yho.com/footer0>
   >
   > Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 4:45 PM, JarosÅaw Lipski
   <[4]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl <mailto:[5]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>> a écrit :
   >
   > Martin,
   >
   > > When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was
   talking only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
   >
   > I tried both thicker and thinner Aquilla Venice ropes and even on 4th
   course they sound brighter than plain gut IMHO. But, this discussion
   only shows how relative our sound perception is.
   > >
   > > For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use
   will not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and
   stiff to work.  On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing
   larger than 1.50mm (actual diameter).  I'm using .95 for the 6th
   course.
   > >
   >
   > I am using 1.60 on 11th course and it works fine for me. But again
   it's a matter of taste.
   >
   > > Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them
   where they go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of
   the bridge.  If you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will
   probably get problems with the strings buzzing against the top of the
   bridge.
   > >
   >
   > Yes, mine have split ends at the bridge.
   >
   > Best
   >
   > Jaroslaw
   >
   >
   > > Martin
   > >
   > > On 03/02/2017 11:39, JarosÅaw Lipski wrote:
   > >> Mimmo,
   > >>
   > >>> You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut?
   I have the contrary. Maybe  it is necessary to know how the roped
   string was done. Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins'
   twisted like as rope and then polished. In practice our Venices.
   > >> Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They
   are brighter than plain gut
   > >>
   > >>> I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation:
   > >> I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs
   have sho

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Apology computer problem ignore message svp

[Anthony Hind]

   Having problems with my messages please ignore
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   --

References

   1. https://yho.com/footer0


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque_Lute_Stringing?=

[Anthony Hind]

   Thanks JarosÅaw

  Whereas professional loaded basses users were forced to look for
   reliable replacements (experimenting Gimped, pure gut, ropes or
   otherwise), I was just keeping my old loaded basses going and lost
   contact with the various As an ex-phonetician factors in sound
   production, the various bass string hypotheses do interest me, but as a
   complete lutenist amateur amateur thought I could just keep my old
   Venice loaded going, swapping worn ones for new old stock early HT gut
   loaded. While Professionals, I knew, needing good repeatable stringing
   experimented with Gimped, pure gut (ropes or HT), or KF basses, I kept
   putting off the inevitable. A friend successfully swapped his loaded to
   Dan Larson's silver Gimped, and then I "gave in" and was just about to
   try a set myself, when Mimmo brought out his new synthetic loaded, and
   of course I had to try them (my Gimped still in my lute case). So for a
   time just a bystander while others experimented.

   Had the Gimped not worked for me I would have tried Venice basses (as
   Ed Martin reported successfully using pure Pistoys), but thought the
   silver Gimped would work better with my set up (I listened with
   interest to Dan L.'s recordings of lutes using either pure Pistoys or
   Gimped basses).  I was thinking about all this, but just didn't get
   round to doing anything about it. I did follow recent debates on the
   French list concerning the KF whittled down and used at low tensions,
   and also a recent article by Charles Besnainou on his air core basses
   (proving the wealth of different experiments on lute basses of which I
   have been partly aware, so not completely out of things).

   In respect to Venices, perhaps your differenceh of appreciation,
   compared to Martin, could result from your using them at different
   tensions: I imagine they would not work well at the low tensions Martin
   may perhaps have tried them. Indeed I use my Venice octaves at a higher
   tension than my , basses, and love them in that use.

   On the question of more or less sustain on basses, I suppose we all
   adapt by tweaking our styles and tensions to our string choices; but
   just the fact that French lutenists sought out vintage lutes, could
   according to Jakob Lindberg's experience with the Rauwolf, imply
   articulate sustain was very important to them, and so possibly also for
   their basses? perhaps ...

   Best wishes

   Anthony

   Le samedi, février 4, 2017, 11:49 AM, JarosÅaw Lipski
   <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl> a écrit :

   Hello Anthony,
   I am fine, thank you. I haven't heard from you for a while, but it's
   nice to see you on our lute list again :)
   Actually I meant KF strings. String ends have to be split (whittled if
   you like), otherwise they are so stiff that tying them would be very
   difficult. Also they wouldn't form a proper knot and initial point of
   vibration would be further away from the bridge. In general this kind
   of problem is characteristic for very stiff strings. Fortunately
   Venices  due to their rope construction are much more pliable, so there
   is no problem with attaching them at the bridge.
   Best wishes
   Jaroslaw
   > On 04 Feb 2017, at 00:20, Anthony Hind <agno3ph...@yahoo.com> wrote:
   >
   > Hello Jaroslaw
   >I hope things are going well with you.
   > When you say of your Venice, "Yes, mine have split ends at the
   bridge." Do you mean you have managed to separate the ends of the twine
   and pass them separately through the bridge hole?
   > This is what Charles Besnainou does with his spring twines. This
   results probably in a lower impedance in the same way as Martin's
   whittled down KFs, I would suppose?
   > Best wishes
   > Anthony
   >
   >
   > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <[1]https://yho.com/footer0>
   >
   > Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 4:45 PM, JarosÅaw Lipski
   <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl <mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>> a écrit :
   >
   > Martin,
   >
   > > When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was
   talking only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
   >
   > I tried both thicker and thinner Aquilla Venice ropes and even on 4th
   course they sound brighter than plain gut IMHO. But, this discussion
   only shows how relative our sound perception is.
   > >
   > > For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use
   will not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and
   stiff to work.  On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing
   larger than 1.50mm (actual diameter).  I'm using .95 for the 6th
   course.
   > >
   >
   > I am using 1.60 on 11th course and it works fine for me. But again
   it's a matter of taste.
   >
   > > Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning the

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   I don't think I disagree Martyn, you say "Martin's practice of thinning
   at the bridge is probably  to allow the string there to vibrate around
   a clean take off point thus minimising frequency absorption (ie
   damping)", I have used the expression "lowering impedance", ie
   minimising resistance to vibration, or as you prefer, "minimising
   damping" (I was only referring to this marginal effect of whittling
   down) and not suggesting the characteristics of the string as whole are
   not more important.

   I was actually thinking that whittling down a KF string had a similar
   effect to passing only one element of a twine through the bridge hole,
   as Charles Besnainou does with his air core "polyethylene" (or similar)
   twine strings. Of course it is the air core structure that makes that
   string exceptionally low impedance, the passing of only one element of
   the twine through the bridge just further lowers the impedance.
   Similarly the use of a relatively high density KF string should reduce
   impedance compared to a lower density HT gut diapason, the whittling
   down further lowers resistance (or damping) I would not contest that.

   Always a pleasure to discuss these string issues with you,

   Best wishes

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le samedi, février 4, 2017, 10:05 AM, Martyn Hodgson
   <hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit :

 Thinning of a string will, of course, affect its flexibility where
   the
 thinning occurs but the state of the remainder of the string (ie the
 vast majority of it) remains unchanged and it is this which
   principally
 produces the sound and thus the quality. As remarked earlier,
   thinning
 at the bridge does have a benefit of reducing loss at this point by
 making a more focused take off point rather than one where the string
 can move significantly in the shallower groove produced by a thicker
 string.
 Thus, as we might expect and, indeed, experience the material
 make-up of the totality of the string is what largely produces the
 sound we hear - hence, for example, why loaded gut produces a more
 satisfactory bass than plain gut.
 regards
 Martyn
   ______
 From: Anthony Hind <[2]agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 To: Martyn Hodgson <[3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; Martin Shepherd
 <[4]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>; "[5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
 <[6]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Sent: Friday, 3 February 2017, 20:45
 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE]
   Baroque
 Lute Stringing
   Apologies for allowing the incomplete message to shoot forth
   Dear Martyn
 I tend to see methods for reducing the inharmonicity of a
 string
   as simply ways of lowering its impedance to bending while
   maintaining
   its weight: either a) by increasing its elasticity or b) by
   improving
   its flexibility (bendability) through keeping it as thin as
   possible
   for the same weight (particularly near the fixed points from which
   it
   moves). I see loading and thinning at the bridge as similar
   processes
   of type b; while i agree there are many other factors which also
 effect
   the way a string resonates.
   Of course these are merely layman's  weak metaphors for which I
   also
   apologise.
   Best wishes
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   Le vendredi, fà ©vrier 3, 2017, 4:52 PM, Martyn Hodgson
   <[1][7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> a à ©crit :
   Dear Anthony,
   I may well have misunderstood the point you make
   'and the extra diameter beyond the bridge behaving similarly  to
   loading, but as though the loading were more of the same material'
   - surely the physical characteristics of a string largely determine
 the
   sound - else why bother?
   Martin's practice of thinning at the bridge is probably  to allow
   the
   string there to vibrate around a clean take off point thus
   minimising
   frequency absorption (ie damping) and, as Martin said, to avoid
   the
   thickish string buzzing against the bridge.  This is not, of
   course,
 to
   say that the rest of the physical characteristics of the string are
   immaterial! The characteristics of the string and hence sound are
   determined by the totality of the vibrating length and thus the
   material, its dimensions its elasticity, stiffness, etc. Otherwise
 one
   might as well make a string out of anything and it would sound the
 same
   if the bridge thinning were identical ..
   regards
   Martyn

   __________
   From: Martin Shepherd <[2]

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   Hello Jaroslaw

   I hope things are going well with you.

   When you say of your Venice, "Yes, mine have split ends at the bridge."
   Do you mean you have managed to separate the ends of the twine and pass
   them separately through the bridge hole?

   This is what Charles Besnainou does with his spring twines. This
   results probably in a lower impedance in the same way as Martin's
   whittled down KFs, I would suppose?

   Best wishes

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 4:45 PM, JarosÅaw Lipski
    a écrit :

   Martin,
   > When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was
   talking only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
   I tried both thicker and thinner Aquilla Venice ropes and even on 4th
   course they sound brighter than plain gut IMHO. But, this discussion
   only shows how relative our sound perception is.
   >
   > For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use
   will not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and
   stiff to work.  On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing
   larger than 1.50mm (actual diameter).  I'm using .95 for the 6th
   course.
   >
   I am using 1.60 on 11th course and it works fine for me. But again it's
   a matter of taste.
   > Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them
   where they go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of
   the bridge.  If you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will
   probably get problems with the strings buzzing against the top of the
   bridge.
   >
   Yes, mine have split ends at the bridge.
   Best
   Jaroslaw
   > Martin
   >
   > On 03/02/2017 11:39, JarosÅaw Lipski wrote:
   >> Mimmo,
   >>
   >>> You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut? I
   have the contrary. Maybe  it is necessary to know how the roped string
   was done. Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted
   like as rope and then polished. In practice our Venices.
   >> Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are
   brighter than plain gut
   >>
   >>> I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation:
   >> I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs
   have shorter sustain, are more percussive and â¦slightly duller sound
   IMO. KFs work well till 11th course on BQL. I don't like them on
   diapasons. CDs have stronger fundamental, longer sustain (much longer
   than guts) and work very well on diapasons, however their elasticity
   make them work only on instruments with higher than normal action and
   wide string spacing. Also tuning is not ideal.
   >>
   >>> Heck, guys, what to do? first or second option?
   >>> At present the second option is the winner!
   >> Now, the question is what is your goal in making CD strings. If you
   aim at finding a substitute for gut strings than stiffer strings would
   be better. I am used to gut basses so I like short sustain and a little
   bit stiffer string. If someone played only overwounds he/she would
   probably prefer longer sustain. So the answer to your question will
   depend on whom you'll ask.
   >> All in all there is no one answer to this question, and probably you
   would have to take into consideration your business strategy.
   >> Best
   >> Ciao
   >>
   >> Jaroslaw
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>
   >>> ciao to all
   >>> Mimmo
   >>>
   >>> -Messaggio originale- From: Martin Shepherd
   >>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 10:22 AM
   >>> To: Mimmo Peruffo ; Matthew Daillie
   >>> Cc: Arto Wikla ; [2]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
   >>>
   >>> Thanks, Mimmo.
   >>>
   >>> I agree absolutely that there is no need to make versions of these
   >>> strings thinner than .80mm.
   >>>
   >>> The issue of damping is perhaps the one which worries me most.  In
   the
   >>> case of roped strings, they sound duller than a plain gut string of
   the
   >>> same size, presumably because of internal friction between the
   strands
   >>> of the rope.  In the case of rubber strings (sorry!) what worries
   me is
   >>> that some damping/absorption of energy is happening as the string
   >>> stretches and contracts with each vibration.  The KF fluorocarbon
   >>> strings, being solid and stiff, have neither of these damping
   effects.
   >>> I can imagine that a string which was "floppy" but not especially
   >>> elastic would work well.
   >>>
   >>> I hope that a lower rubber content would allow the strings to slide
   >>> better over the nut, which would also be a welcome characteristic.
   >>>
   >>> Best to all,
   >>>
   >>> Martin
   >>>
   >>> On 03/02/2017 10:09, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
    Thank you very much about all these helpfull suggestions, guys.
   
    actually the gauges from 80 CD till 105CD are made half loaded
   using also 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   Apologies for allowing the incomplete message to shoot forth

   Dear Martyn
 I tend to see methods for reducing the inharmonicity of a string
   as simply ways of lowering its impedance to bending while maintaining
   its weight: either a) by increasing its elasticity or b) by improving
   its flexibility (bendability) through keeping it as thin as possible
   for the same weight (particularly near the fixed points from which it
   moves). I see loading and thinning at the bridge as similar processes
   of type b; while i agree there are many other factors which also effect
   the way a string resonates.
   Of course these are merely layman's  weak metaphors for which I also
   apologise.
   Best wishes
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 4:52 PM, Martyn Hodgson
   <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit :

   Dear Anthony,
   I may well have misunderstood the point you make
   'and the extra diameter beyond the bridge behaving similarly  to
   loading, but as though the loading were more of the same material'
   - surely the physical characteristics of a string largely determine the
   sound - else why bother?
   Martin's practice of thinning at the bridge is probably  to allow the
   string there to vibrate around a clean take off point thus minimising
   frequency absorption (ie damping) and, as Martin said, to avoid  the
   thickish string buzzing against the bridge.  This is not, of course, to
   say that the rest of the physical characteristics of the string are
   immaterial! The characteristics of the string and hence sound are
   determined by the totality of the vibrating length and thus the
   material, its dimensions its elasticity, stiffness, etc. Otherwise  one
   might as well make a string out of anything and it would sound the same
   if the bridge thinning were identical ..
   regards
   Martyn
 __

   From: Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
   To: Anthony Hind <agno3ph...@yahoo.com>; JarosÅaw Lipski
   <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>; "baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
   <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 3 February 2017, 15:35
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing
 Thinning the string probably does weaken it, but since the strings in
 question are way below their breaking strain that would never be a
 problem.  I have not tried thinning at the nut, but I suspect if it
 could be done it might improve the sound still further.  There is
 something to be said for thinning them where they go through the hole
 in the peg, allowing a smaller hole to be used and also making it
 easier to persuade the string to bend around the peg.
 Martin
 On 03/02/2017 15:45, Anthony Hind wrote:
   By thinning them at the bridge, Martin, I suppose this allows the
   diapason to be "seen" (as it were) at the bridge as a thinish
   loaded
   string. The effective resonating diameter being that passing
   through
   the hole and the extra diameter beyond the bridge behaving
   similarly
   to loading, but as though the loading were more of the same
   material
   (albeit with a brake on the harmonicity where the whole string
   psses
   over the nut)? Does the whittling down weaken the string? Could you
   also thin it at the nut?
 Best wishes
 Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 2:00 PM, Martin Shepherd
   [2]<[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> a écrit :
 Just to explain:
 When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was
   talking
 only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
 For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use
 will
 not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and
   stiff
 to work.  On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing
   larger
 than 1.50mm (actual diameter).  I'm using .95 for the 6th course.
 Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them
   where
 they go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of the
 bridge.  If you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will
 probably get problems with the strings buzzing against the top of the
 bridge.
 Martin
 On 03/02/2017 11:39, JarosÅaw Lipski wrote:
 > Mimmo,
 >
 >> You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut?
   I
 have the contrary. Maybe  it is necessary to know how the roped
   string
 was done. Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted
 like as rope and then polished. In practice our Venices.
 > Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are
 brighter than plain gut
 >
 >> I would like to b

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Martyn

 I tend to see reducing inharmonicity of a string as lowering its
   impedance to bending while maintaining its weight.
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 4:52 PM, Martyn Hodgson
   <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit :

   Dear Anthony,
   I may well have misunderstood the point you make
   'and the extra diameter beyond the bridge behaving similarly  to
   loading, but as though the loading were more of the same material'
   - surely the physical characteristics of a string largely determine the
   sound - else why bother?
   Martin's practice of thinning at the bridge is probably  to allow the
   string there to vibrate around a clean take off point thus minimising
   frequency absorption (ie damping) and, as Martin said, to avoid  the
   thickish string buzzing against the bridge.  This is not, of course, to
   say that the rest of the physical characteristics of the string are
   immaterial! The characteristics of the string and hence sound are
   determined by the totality of the vibrating length and thus the
   material, its dimensions its elasticity, stiffness, etc. Otherwise  one
   might as well make a string out of anything and it would sound the same
   if the bridge thinning were identical ..
   regards
   Martyn
 __

   From: Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
   To: Anthony Hind <agno3ph...@yahoo.com>; JarosÅaw Lipski
   <jaroslawlip...@wp.pl>; "baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
   <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 3 February 2017, 15:35
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing
 Thinning the string probably does weaken it, but since the strings in
 question are way below their breaking strain that would never be a
 problem.  I have not tried thinning at the nut, but I suspect if it
 could be done it might improve the sound still further.  There is
 something to be said for thinning them where they go through the hole
 in the peg, allowing a smaller hole to be used and also making it
 easier to persuade the string to bend around the peg.
 Martin
 On 03/02/2017 15:45, Anthony Hind wrote:
   By thinning them at the bridge, Martin, I suppose this allows the
   diapason to be "seen" (as it were) at the bridge as a thinish
   loaded
   string. The effective resonating diameter being that passing
   through
   the hole and the extra diameter beyond the bridge behaving
   similarly
   to loading, but as though the loading were more of the same
   material
   (albeit with a brake on the harmonicity where the whole string
   psses
   over the nut)? Does the whittling down weaken the string? Could you
   also thin it at the nut?
 Best wishes
 Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 2:00 PM, Martin Shepherd
   [2]<[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> a écrit :
 Just to explain:
 When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was
   talking
 only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
 For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use
 will
 not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and
   stiff
 to work.  On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing
   larger
 than 1.50mm (actual diameter).  I'm using .95 for the 6th course.
 Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them
   where
 they go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of the
 bridge.  If you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will
 probably get problems with the strings buzzing against the top of the
 bridge.
 Martin
 On 03/02/2017 11:39, JarosÅaw Lipski wrote:
 > Mimmo,
 >
 >> You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut?
   I
 have the contrary. Maybe  it is necessary to know how the roped
   string
 was done. Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted
 like as rope and then polished. In practice our Venices.
 > Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are
 brighter than plain gut
 >
 >> I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation:
 > I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs
   have
 shorter sustain, are more percussive and â¦slightly duller sound IMO.
 KFs work well till 11th course on BQL. I don't like them on
   diapasons.
 CDs have stronger fundamental, longer sustain (much longer than guts)
 and work very well on diapasons, however their elasticity make them
 work only on instruments with higher than normal action and wide
   string
 spacing. Also tuning is not ideal.
 >
 >> Heck, guys, what t

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   By thinning them at the bridge, Martin, I suppose this allows the
   diapason to be "seen" (as it were) at the bridge as a thinish loaded
   string. The effective resonating diameter being that passing through
   the hole and the extra diameter beyond the bridge behaving similarly to
   loading, but as though the loading were more of the same material
   (albeit with a brake on the harmonicity where the whole string psses
   over the nut)? Does the whittling down weaken the string? Could you
   also thin it at the nut?

   Best wishes

   Anthony

   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 2:00 PM, Martin Shepherd
    a écrit :

   Just to explain:
   When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was talking
   only about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
   For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use
   will
   not work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and stiff
   to work.  On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing larger
   than 1.50mm (actual diameter).  I'm using .95 for the 6th course.
   Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them where
   they go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of the
   bridge.  If you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will
   probably get problems with the strings buzzing against the top of the
   bridge.
   Martin
   On 03/02/2017 11:39, JarosÅaw Lipski wrote:
   > Mimmo,
   >
   >> You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut? I
   have the contrary. Maybe  it is necessary to know how the roped string
   was done. Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted
   like as rope and then polished. In practice our Venices.
   > Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are
   brighter than plain gut
   >
   >> I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation:
   > I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs have
   shorter sustain, are more percussive and â¦slightly duller sound IMO.
   KFs work well till 11th course on BQL. I don't like them on diapasons.
   CDs have stronger fundamental, longer sustain (much longer than guts)
   and work very well on diapasons, however their elasticity make them
   work only on instruments with higher than normal action and wide string
   spacing. Also tuning is not ideal.
   >
   >> Heck, guys, what to do? first or second option?
   >> At present the second option is the winner!
   > Now, the question is what is your goal in making CD strings. If you
   aim at finding a substitute for gut strings than stiffer strings would
   be better. I am used to gut basses so I like short sustain and a little
   bit stiffer string. If someone played only overwounds he/she would
   probably prefer longer sustain. So the answer to your question will
   depend on whom you'll ask.
   > All in all there is no one answer to this question, and probably you
   would have to take into consideration your business strategy.
   > Best
   > Ciao
   >
   > Jaroslaw
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >> ciao to all
   >> Mimmo
   >>
   >> -Messaggio originale- From: Martin Shepherd
   >> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 10:22 AM
   >> To: Mimmo Peruffo ; Matthew Daillie
   >> Cc: Arto Wikla ; [2]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
   >>
   >> Thanks, Mimmo.
   >>
   >> I agree absolutely that there is no need to make versions of these
   >> strings thinner than .80mm.
   >>
   >> The issue of damping is perhaps the one which worries me most.  In
   the
   >> case of roped strings, they sound duller than a plain gut string of
   the
   >> same size, presumably because of internal friction between the
   strands
   >> of the rope.  In the case of rubber strings (sorry!) what worries me
   is
   >> that some damping/absorption of energy is happening as the string
   >> stretches and contracts with each vibration.  The KF fluorocarbon
   >> strings, being solid and stiff, have neither of these damping
   effects.
   >> I can imagine that a string which was "floppy" but not especially
   >> elastic would work well.
   >>
   >> I hope that a lower rubber content would allow the strings to slide
   >> better over the nut, which would also be a welcome characteristic.
   >>
   >> Best to all,
   >>
   >> Martin
   >>
   >> On 03/02/2017 10:09, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
   >>> Thank you very much about all these helpfull suggestions, guys.
   >>>
   >>> actually the gauges from 80 CD till 105CD are made half loaded
   using also a stiffer elastomer.  This combination is perfect fo the
   tonl trasiction betweenj pure gut/nylon/Nylgut to a wound strings, KF
   or CDs etc etc.
   >>> I call this range of gauges simply as Meanes. they are still CD
   types however.
   >>> In practice they  are around the 5th course of renaissance & d
   minor Lutes.
   >>> I have 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   Personally I love the singing sustain of the ones I have on my lute
   now, but for many lutenists the elasticity is difficult to deal with,
   both in terms of how it calls for a change in playing technique, and
   also how they tend to stick on the nut. However, I also loved my loaded
   Venice gut, so the second option is also alright with me. Trueness of
   string is of course necessary, but possibly difficult to predict. I
   suppose it may be difficult to obtain even or homogenous mixtures of
   polymer and copper, sometimes just necessary to select the best ones?
   But I suppose the traditional testing between stretched hands (or
   similar) won't work for very elastic strings? I may have been very
   lucky as all mine were very true.

   Best wishes

   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

   Le vendredi, février 3, 2017, 8:50 AM, Rob MacKillop
    a écrit :

   Second option for me.
   Rob MacKillop
   > On 3 Feb 2017, at 07:29, Mimmo Peruffo <[2]mperu...@aquilacorde.com>
   wrote:
   >
   >  Thank you for the suggestion Arto.
   >  Unfortunately i cannot do it
   >  I already image how confuse the thing will be with the customers.
   >  This mean the eford to mannage twice products and honestly I do not
   >  like to add cofusion in the factory and with customers already
   stressed
   >  by me!
   >
   >  I should do a choice and in fast time: is it better a more elastic
   >  string like these are (whith problems related to the fact that maybe
   >  stretch tooo much and that the sound is too bright) or it is better
   to
   >  switch to a less elastic plastic support with the advantage that it
   >  stretch less, the sound is darker and with less sustain?
   >  Hard to do the choice: both solutions are ok; i already tried the
   >  second option that is similar to the loaded gut strings
   >  Even Anthony Bailes suggested me the second option.
   >
   >  Strings or not to strings? this is the question
   >
   >  ah ah
   >  (my poor english at work)
   >  Ciao
   >  Mimmo
   >
   >  ps
   >  which are your suggestion guys?
   >
   >
   >
   >  -Messaggio originale-
   >  From: Arto Wikla
   >  Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:46 PM
   >  To: Mimmo Peruffo ; [3]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >  Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
   >
   >  Dear Mimmo,
   >
   >  if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I
   >  hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original
   elastic
   >  version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz
   >  arclute, great stuff.
   >
   >  And big thanks for your invaluable work!
   >
   >  Arto
   >
   >>  On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
   >> Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer
   >  ones.
   >> at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made
   of
   >  gut.
   >> I will do some samples in advance.
   >> Mimmo
   >
   >
   >
   >  To get on or off this list see list information at
   >  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   >  --
   >

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Lute Stringing

[Anthony Hind]

   Presumably FB was talking of dark diapasons and not bass courses
   diapasons with their octaves? Modern wire wounds are very bright and
   there is little need for strong octaves. Personally when using Venice
   gut loaded that were quite flexible and dark, I moved to higher tension
   Venice octaves to compensate the slightly flappy quality of loaded
   basses (which at first had tended to rattle slightly). This works very
   well, the bass initially gives way to the thumb pressure, but the
   higher tension octave gives a delayed resistance (all tendency to
   rattle disappeared). I preferred this to going to a thicker higher
   tension loaded bass which could sometimes sound slightly over damped. I
   have kept these octaves with the new synthetic basses, and the few
   lutenists who have tried my lute found it sounded well with this
   configuration (how well this corresponds to evidence of historic
   stringing, I am not sure. Although where indicated that octaves should
   be played without basses, my octaves have a good tuneful presence,
   which I doubt would be the case with lower tension ones; but along with
   FB some might argue 'basses should be basses', whereas mine have a
   slightly singing Meanes presence to them).

   In the past, I have used first generation stiff HT loaded gut and
   second generation flexible Venice loaded gut and now the flexible
   synthetic ones, and after a time and some tweaking, managed with each
   type. I think the playing style alters somewhat to adapt to stringing
   and tensions, but I can imagine that those used to very stiff
   wirewounds might take some time to adapt. On the other hand, if a
   flexible bass is false, no increased tension of the octave will prevent
   it from rattling.
   Regards
   Anthony

   Le jeudi, février 2, 2017, 10:53 AM, Mimmo Peruffo
    a écrit :

   The Well, Tony Bailes mailed me that:
   Writing in 1629 Francis Bacon stresses that low strings should produce
   a
bass sound: "for we see, that in one of the lower strings of a lute,
   there
   When soundeth not the sound of the treble, nor any mixt sound , but
   onely the
   sound of the base."
   Mimmo
   ps: I can made them less stretchly using a different elastomer. the
   problem
   is that they became a bit darker in the sound. Any suggestion? I am
   ready to
   start with the big batch. I am a bit worry about those that like that
   they
   are in some way still close to the wound strings
   -Messaggio originale-
   From: Martin Shepherd
   Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:26 AM
   To: Mimmo ; Matthew Daillie
   Cc: [1]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
   Dear All,
   If we're really interested in how lutes might have been strung
   historically, I think it's important to take the historical evidence
   (very little of it, I know) as a starting point, rather than the habits
   of modern players using modern strings.
   We have a lot of iconographic evidence (plus the evidence from
   measuring
   bridge holes) that bass strings were rather thin - so the conclusion
   that they were more dense than a plain gut string seems pretty well
   inescapable.
   Having said that, the tensions which modern players expect may be too
   high, for several reasons.  One is that we are accustomed to wound
   strings, which are very flexible and don't work at all well if they are
   at too low a tension.  A related problem is that modern players tend to
   play much further from the bridge than their historical counterparts.
   Another issue is that we have tended to assume roughly equal tension
   across all the strings, so we have not experimented much with a
   tapering
   of tension as we go down into the bass.  One interesting aspect of the
   iconography is that strings get progressively thicker as they go down
   into the bass, but not as much as one would expect if the tensions were
   equal.  To make this concrete, for a descent of an octave (maintaining
   equal tension) the string should double in diameter, so the 6th course
   on a 6c lute should be nearly twice the diameter of the 4th.
   On the subject of string diameters, Mimmo estimates the thinnest string
   which could have been made in the past as .42-.44mm. Single top strings
   will need to be a higher tension than the individual strings of a
   course, but even so it is more or less inevitable that the tension must
   be tapered to some degree, otherwise bass strings (and tension) would
   be
   enormous.  Mimmo has recently written that equal tension is different
   from equal "feel", and I agree with his suggestion that (in order to
   maintain equal feel) thinner strings should therefore be at a higher
   tension than thicker ones.  I have done this as a matter of instinct
   for
   many years - using a higher tension on the second course than on the
   third, for example.  As an aside, I note that most of us 

[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

[Anthony Hind]

   Jakob Lindberg's remarks about the wonderful sustain of his old
   Rauwolf seems to confirm what you say (sustain, complexity and clarity,
   together according to JL). Mersenne would certainly have heard
   marvellous old Bologna lutes sought out by French luthenists, no doubt
   exactly for these qualities (rather than as antiques), but for all
   strings surely, not just for bass sustain or prominence.
   If the French revelled in bass sustain, which one might gather from
   Mersenne, wouldn't they have adopted demi-file, or kept on using the
   extended 12C lute? Yet, I seem to remember a quotation of the Burwell
   author, saying the French shunned the 12C lute exactly because of its
   bass course prominence and nazality.
   At least for this repertoire I have always imagined that a homogenous
   sustain through all strings is best, and that is what Mimmo's  new
   basses do seem to give us. They have good sustain but on my lute at
   least, their low impedance allow the Means and Trebles to shine
   through.
   Regards
   Anthony

   Le 9 janv. 2017 à 10:52, Matthew Daillie <[1]dail...@club-internet.fr>
   a écrit :

   One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the vast differences in
   sustain from one instrument to another. Maybe Mersenne's comments go to
   show just how good some lutes were at the time. If one was to rest a
   lute on the edge of a wooden table as they were wont to do at the time,
   then maybe those 20 seconds are not so unrealistic.
   Best,
   Matthew
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[LUTE] Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

[Anthony Hind]

   Oups, sorry Rob for sending to wrong list AH

Very relevant comparison Rob, and I also notice that on my 11C
   lute, the sustain of the new Aquila basses is almost identical to that
   of my Venice octaves (which presumably would not be the case with the
   Savarez. I imagine they would drone on longer if not stopped); but
   again if I pluck courses D10 and d2 together, they also have the same
   sustain. I think this shows how well the new basses work together with
   the other strings, rather than against them, as with wirewounds.
   I also find that they are fairly close to my Venice loaded basses
   (rather than the stiffer first generation HT loaded), but with better
   resonance patterns, and even more elasticity. I did have to alter my
   playing slightly to allow for this. Those coming from stiffer
   wirewounds may have more adapting to do, but will probably find this
   worthwhile; yet these very elastic basses may not work quite so well
   for low tension players, who could have adapted their technique to
   stiffer pure gut (HT or roped), Gimped, or even KF harp strings. It
   might be interesting to hear from players coming from different playing
   styles.
   Best regards
   Anthony

 Le 8 janv. 2017 à 16:59, Rob MacKillop <[1]robmackil...@gmail.com> a
 écrit :

   Here's a very short video comparing the sustain time of a new
 Aquila
   Loaded Nylgut string and a Savarez copper-wound nylon-silk core
 bass
   string.
   [1][2]https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
   My ears hear better than the microphone, and the useable sustain
 on the
   Aquila string is 4 seconds, while the Savarez is a long 8 seconds.
   With the Savarez, you will be required to stop pretty much every
 note
   you play in the bass. With the Aquila, less so.
   The Aquila do remind me of gut basses. I used to have an 11c
 completely
   strung in gut, and these loaded nylgut strings are very, very
 close.
   On the other hand...Mersenne says his basses sustain for almost 20
   seconds!!!
   I'll stick with the Aquila.
   Rob
   --
 References
   1. [3]https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   2. https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
   3. https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain

[Anthony Hind]

   Very relevant comparison Rob, and I also notice that on my 11C lute,
   the sustain of the new Aquila basses is almost identical to that of my
   Venice octaves (which presumably would not be the case with the
   Savarez. I imagine they would drone on longer if not stopped); but
   again if I pluck courses D10 and d2 together, they also have the same
   sustain. I think this shows how well the new basses work together with
   the other strings, rather than against them, as with wirewounds.
   I also find that they are fairly close to my Venice loaded basses
   (rather than the stiffer first generation HT loaded), but with better
   resonance patterns, and even more elasticity. I did have to alter my
   playing slightly to allow for this. Those coming from stiffer
   wirewounds may have more adapting to do, but will probably find this
   worthwhile; yet these very elastic basses may not work quite so well
   for low tension players, who could have adapted their technique to
   stiffer pure gut (HT or roped), Gimped, or even KF harp strings. It
   might be interesting to hear from players coming from different playing
   styles.
   Best regards
   Anthony

   Le 8 janv. 2017 à 16:59, Rob MacKillop <[1]robmackil...@gmail.com> a
   écrit :

 Here's a very short video comparing the sustain time of a new Aquila
 Loaded Nylgut string and a Savarez copper-wound nylon-silk core bass
 string.
 [1][2]https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
 My ears hear better than the microphone, and the useable sustain on
   the
 Aquila string is 4 seconds, while the Savarez is a long 8 seconds.
 With the Savarez, you will be required to stop pretty much every note
 you play in the bass. With the Aquila, less so.
 The Aquila do remind me of gut basses. I used to have an 11c
   completely
 strung in gut, and these loaded nylgut strings are very, very close.
 On the other hand...Mersenne says his basses sustain for almost 20
 seconds!!!
 I'll stick with the Aquila.
 Rob
 --
   References
 1. [3]https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   2. https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
   3. https://youtu.be/8FVJMk_Xjv0
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: luth dore

[Anthony Hind]

   Yes, apparently the documents will be downloadable on the 31st of March
   Anthony

   On 16 mars 2015, at 15:14, Peter Van Dessel
   [1]peter.vandes...@gep.kuleuven.be wrote:

 Dear Anthony,

   I'd love to have a look at the Luth Dore site, but I get no reaction no
   matter what language I click!

   Regards

   Peter Van Dessel
   Oud-Heverleestraat  35
   3001  Leuven
   On 16 Mar 2015, at 14:39, Anthony Hind wrote:

 Dear lutenists
The following message has been sent to me from
   [2]leluthdore.com,
 and which may interest fellow lutenists when they consult the
   luthdore
 website
 A Worldwide Lute Revival is Underway! Find out more on Tuesday,
   March
 31 2015!
 Facebook : [1][3]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
 Webpage : [2][4]www.leluthdore.com
 My best regards
 Anthony
 --
   References
 1. [5]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
 2. [6]http://www.leluthdore.com/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:peter.vandes...@gep.kuleuven.be
   2. http://leluthdore.com/
   3. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   4. http://www.leluthdore.com/
   5. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   6. http://www.leluthdore.com/
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: luthdore

[Anthony Hind]

Dear lutenists,
  For those of you who have had no success in opening links at the 
luthdore, apparently documents will be downloadable in various languages on the 
31st of March.
Regards
Anthony


 On 16 mars 2015, at 14:41, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
 
   Dear lutenists
  The following message has been sent to me from leluthdore.com,
   and which may interest fellow lutenists when they consult the luthdore
   website
   A Worldwide Lute Revival is Underway! Find out more on Tuesday, March
   31 2015!
 
   Facebook : [1]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   Webpage : [2]www.leluthdore.com
   My best regards
   Anthony
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   2. http://www.leluthdore.com/
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] le luth d'oré

[Anthony Hind]

   The following message has been sent to me from leluthdorA(c).com, and
   which may prove interesting to fellow lutenists who go to their face
   book page:
   A Worldwide Lute Revival is Underway! Find out more on Tuesday, March
   31 2015!
   Facebook : [1]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   Webpage : [2]www.leluthdore.com
   Best regards to all
   Anthony Hind

   --

References

   1. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   2. http://www.leluthdore.com/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] luthdore

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
  The following message has been sent to me from leluthdore.com,
   and which may interest fellow lutenists when they consult the luthdore
   website
   A Worldwide Lute Revival is Underway! Find out more on Tuesday, March
   31 2015!

   Facebook : [1]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   Webpage : [2]www.leluthdore.com
   My best regards
   Anthony

   --

References

   1. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   2. http://www.leluthdore.com/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] luth dore

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
  The following message has been sent to me from leluthdore.com,
   and which may interest fellow lutenists when they consult the luthdore
   website
   A Worldwide Lute Revival is Underway! Find out more on Tuesday, March
   31 2015!

   Facebook : [1]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   Webpage : [2]www.leluthdore.com
   My best regards
   Anthony

   --

References

   1. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   2. http://www.leluthdore.com/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: luth dore

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Peter

   I think it becomes active at the date indicated. At least that is what
   I gathered.

   Regards

   Anthony
   Sent from my iPhone

   On 16 mars 2015, at 15:14, Peter Van Dessel
   [1]peter.vandes...@gep.kuleuven.be wrote:

 Dear Anthony,

   I'd love to have a look at the Luth Dore site, but I get no reaction no
   matter what language I click!

   Regards

   Peter Van Dessel
   Oud-Heverleestraat  35
   3001  Leuven
   On 16 Mar 2015, at 14:39, Anthony Hind wrote:

 Dear lutenists
The following message has been sent to me from
   [2]leluthdore.com,
 and which may interest fellow lutenists when they consult the
   luthdore
 website
 A Worldwide Lute Revival is Underway! Find out more on Tuesday,
   March
 31 2015!
 Facebook : [1][3]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
 Webpage : [2][4]www.leluthdore.com
 My best regards
 Anthony
 --
   References
 1. [5]https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
 2. [6]http://www.leluthdore.com/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:peter.vandes...@gep.kuleuven.be
   2. http://leluthdore.com/
   3. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   4. http://www.leluthdore.com/
   5. https://www.facebook.com/leluthdore
   6. http://www.leluthdore.com/
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tuner with preset temperaments

[Anthony Hind]

Thanks Bob, probably I will download it, but unfortunately, I'd have to remove 
another app, as I have so little space left on my iphone.
In fact my question was as much for others as myself. At home I generally use 
the Sonic Research turbo tuner, but also have the Korg OT-12. On my phone, when 
away, I have Cleartune and ipeg, but I do miss the strobe style of the Sonic 
Research, and was wondering whether I would get the best of both worlds with 
the PitchLab guitar tuner; but I suppose I will bite the bullet and remove 
some other app, just to test it out.
Thanks for drawing this to our attention.
Regards
Anthony

Sent from my iPhone

 On 10 mars 2015, at 21:08, Robert Clair rcl...@elroberto.com wrote:
 
 
 
 Bob, it sounds as though it combines the best of the expensive Peterson 
 strobe and the temperaments of cleartune, but might it be a little cluttered?
 
 The various displays are on different views. You can show 1 view on the 
 screen or two views side by side. The latter is slightly crowded on an iPhone 
 but just fine on an iPad.
 
 Has anyone done a comparison?
 
 In what sense?
 
 
 
 Does it have the same pitch calibration possibilities as the Cleartune?
 
 It t is very easy to set the temperament, reference frequency, transposition 
 and some technical stuff.
 
 Why not download the free version and checkin out yourself?
 
 …Bob
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tuner with preset temperaments

[Anthony Hind]

Bob, it sounds as though it combines the best of the expensive Peterson strobe 
and the temperaments of cleartune, but might it be a little cluttered? Has 
anyone done a comparison? Does it have the same pitch calibration possibilities 
as the Cleartune?
Regards
Anthony

 On 5 mars 2015, at 15:31, Robert Clair rcl...@elroberto.com wrote:
 
 If you have an iPhone or iPad ( or iPod Touch) check out Pitchlab:
 
 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pitchlab-guitar-tuner-free/id732850624?mt=8
 
 Basic app is free but you’ll probably want to spend the three bucks and get 
 the full set of displays.
 Easy to set up, lots of useful things, especially a strobe tuner display.
 
 …Bob
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Recordings of Germain Pinel and Robert de Visée.

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
  A copy of Miguel Yisrael's latest recording les rois de
   versailles, signed by the lutenist, can now be ordered directly on his
   web site at

   [1]http://www.miguelyisrael.com/index.php/works/discography

   It focusses on the lute music of two French composers, Germain Pinel
   (whose music has rarely been recorded) and Robert de Visee.

   Best wishes for the new year

   Anthony

   --

References

   1. http://www.miguelyisrael.com/index.php/works/discography


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Recordings of Germain Pinel and Robert de Visée.

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
  A copy of Miguel Yisrael's latest recording les rois de
   versailles, signed by the lutenist, can now be ordered directly on his
   web site at
   [1]http://www.miguelyisrael.com/index.php/works/discography
   It focusses on the lute music of two French composers, Germain Pinel
   (whose music has rarely been recorded) and Robert de Visee.
   Best wishes for the new year
   Anthony
   Sent from my iPhone

   --

References

   1. http://www.miguelyisrael.com/index.php/works/discography


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute bridge

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Bruno
Looking at the instruments of the Cité de la Musique seems to show that ivory 
or bone on the bridge goes together with the same decorations on the 
fingerboard and elsewhere,
http://tinyurl.com/nlvpy32
Thus unlikely to be acoustic in intention.
Regards
Anthony


Sent from my iPhone

 On 26 juil. 2014, at 00:32, Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Dear Daniel,
 This thin slice of bone is precisely what I was referring to. I'm sure
 you have seen many lutes with these cap.
 All the best.
 2014-07-25 18:44 GMT-03:00 Dan Winheld [1]dwinh...@lmi.net:
 
   Never had a bone on any of my lute bridges (except the guitar saddle
   bone on my first guitary-semi-lute). I have never seen a bone on any
   lute bridge either. A thin slice of bone, ivory, or hard wood seems
   like a good idea to limit string wear on the top edges of a bridge,
   so long as it does not increase mass to the extent of degrading the
   sound. Of course, as a player  not a luthier I'm sure I haven't all
   the lutes out there. Maybe some Tielke extravaganza has bone or
   ivory bridge decoration.
   What particular lutes have you seen with this feature? Any pictures?
   Dan
 
 --
 Bruno Figueiredo
 A
 Pesquisador autA'nomo da prA!tica e interpretaAS:A-L-o
 historicamente informada no alaA-ode e teorba.
 Doutor em PrA!ticas InterpretativasA pela
 Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
 
 --
 
 References
 
 1. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Video of Archlute by Koch

[Anthony Hind]

Magnificent instrument and impressive playing, thank you Benjamin for posting 
this! I hadn't seen it.
Regards
Anthony


 On 16 mai 2014, at 22:39, BENJAMIN NARVEY luthi...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 http://mediatheque.cite-musique.fr/masc/?INSTANCE=CITEMUSIQUEURL=/M
   ediaComposite/CMFM/CMFM04800/default.htm



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: backpacks for lutes?

[Anthony Hind]

   Victor Vorko here in Paris makes excellent cases which include back
   straps, and I was thinking of having similar back straps fitted to my
   MTM baroque lute case, but this back axe solution does look very good.
   Anthony
   Sent from my iPhone

   On 6 mars 2014, at 00:12, Leah Baranov [1]lutech...@gmail.com wrote:

 Has anyone tried the Back Axe?
 [1][2]http://www.berkshire.net/~mmipro/
 On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:48 PM, David van Ooijen
 [2][3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:
  I made a big bag, big enough to hold a lute case, and made
   straps
  around it to carry it as a back pack. It works for most of my
   (smaller)
  lutes cases. Some bigger caes I have adapted with  - I don't
   know
   the
  proper English word - metal loops to hook back back straps on.
   Back
  back straps can be bought in an outdoor equipment shop.
  Loops/hooks/rings/whatever can be bought in a shop that sells
   stuff you
  use to make cases, suitcases, bags, c. A good DIY or iron wares
   shop
  should do. If all of this makes no sense at all I can send
   pictures.
  Somewhere tomorrow ...
  David
  ***
  David van Ooijen
  [1][3][4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  [2][4][5]www.davidvanooijen.nl
  ***
On 5 March 2014 20:56, wayne cripps
   [3][5][6]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 wrote:
  I see guys carrying 'cellos and guitars in backpacks - does
   anyone
  make a backpack for a baroque lute (in its case)?
Wayne
  To get on or off this list see list information at
[4][6][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
   l
  --
   References
  1. mailto:[7][8]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  2. [8][9]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  3. mailto:[9][10]w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4.
   [10][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [12]http://www.berkshire.net/~mmipro/
 2. [13]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 3. [14]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 4. [15]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
 5. [16]mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 6. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 7. [18]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 8. [19]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
 9. [20]mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
10. [21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:lutech...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.berkshire.net/~mmipro/
   3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   6. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   9. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  10. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  12. http://www.berkshire.net/~mmipro/
  13. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  14. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  15. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  16. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  18. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  19. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  20. mailto:w...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Concerts tinyurl link

[Anthony Hind]

   Of course tinyurl should solve the link problem, so here it is again,
   sorry for
   the repetitions :

   CONCERT INFO
   Miguel Yisrael USA Tour 2014
   1) Recital at Rowan University, March 3 of 2014 at 8 pm :
   [1]http://tinyurl.com/p2ehh6r
   2) Recital in Boston, March 5 of 2014 at 8 pm : booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia, March 7 of 2014 at 8 pm :
   [2]http://tinyurl.com/pzfgbwn
   Sent from my iPhone

   On 31 janv. 2014, at 22:51, Anthony Hind [3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

   A problem still seems to occur, the Rowan university link, should have
   this last number : 628216
   But it has been transformed to b28216.
   You would need to copy the link and make the correction by hand,
   strange!
   Regards
   Anthony
   On 31 janv. 2014, at 19:30, Anthony Hind [4]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

  A link apparently wasn't working so here they are again:

  CONCERT INFO

  Miguel Yisrael USA Tour 2014

  1) Recital at Rowan University, [1]March 3 of 2014 [2]at 8

  pm :[3][5]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216

  2) Recital in Boston, [4]March 5 of 2014 [5]at 8 pm: booked out

  3) Recital in Philadelphia, [6]March 7 of 2014 [7]at 8

  pm:[8][6]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

  On 31 janv. 2014, at 10:57, Anthony Hind
 [9][7]agno3ph...@yahoo.com

  wrote:

Further information on the French baroque lute concerts :

1) Recital at Rowan University, march 3 at 8 pm :

[1][10][8]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216

2) Recital in Boston : booked out

3) Recital in Philadelphia :

[2][11][9]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lut
 e/

On 29 janv. 2014, at 23:15, Anthony Hind

  [3][12][10]agno3ph...@yahoo.com

wrote:

  Dear lutenists

  For those who may be interested these concerts of French
 baroque

  lute

  music are announced:

  Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The
 Sun

King

  A

  Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan

  University,

  New jersey, USA

  Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro,
 New

  Jersey, USA

  Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA

  Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.

  Tickets sold out

  Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia

Chamber

  Music Society, Philadelphia, USA

  Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.

  American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia

  Regards

  Anthony

  --

To get on or off this list see list information at

[4][13][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

  References

1. [14][12]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216

2.
 [15][13]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

3. [16][14]mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com

4. [17][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

  --

 References

  1. x-apple-data-detectors://0/

  2. x-apple-data-detectors://1/

  3. [16]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216

  4. x-apple-data-detectors://3/

  5. x-apple-data-detectors://4/

  6. x-apple-data-detectors://5/

  7. x-apple-data-detectors://6/

  8. [17]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

  9. [18]mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com

 10. [19]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216

 11. [20]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

 12. [21]mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com

 13. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 14. [23]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216

 15. [24]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

 16. [25]mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com

 17. [26]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://tinyurl.com/p2ehh6r
   2. http://tinyurl.com/pzfgbwn
   3. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   4. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   5. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   6. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   7. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   8. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   9. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  10. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  12. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  13. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  14. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  16. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  17. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  18. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  19. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  20

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Concerts of French Baroque lute music

[Anthony Hind]

   Of course tinyurl should solve the link problem, so here it is again,
   sorry for
   the repetitions :

   CONCERT INFO
   Miguel Yisrael USA Tour 2014
   1) Recital at Rowan University, March 3 of 2014 at 8 pm :
   [1]http://tinyurl.com/p2ehh6r
   2) Recital in Boston, March 5 of 2014 at 8 pm : booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia, March 7 of 2014 at 8 pm :
   [2]http://tinyurl.com/pzfgbwn
   Sent from my iPhone

   On 31 janv. 2014, at 22:52, Anthony Hind [3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

   A problem still seems to occur, the Rowan university link, should have
   this last number : 628216
   But it has been transformed to b28216.
   You would need to copy the link and make the correction by hand,
   strange!
   Regards
   Anthony
   Sent from my iPhone

   On 31 janv. 2014, at 19:34, Anthony Hind [4]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

   A link apparently was not working, so here it is again:
   CONCERT INFO
   Miguel Yisrael USA Tour 2014
   1) Recital at Rowan University, March 3 of 2014 at 8 pm :
   [5]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2) Recital in Boston, March 5 of 2014 at 8 pm : booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia, March 7 of 2014 at 8 pm
   :[6]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/[7]
   Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 __

   From: Anthony Hind [8]agno3ph...@yahoo.com;
   To: [9]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [10]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu;
   Subject: RE: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Concerts of French Baroque lute music
   Sent: Fri, Jan 31, 2014 9:49:50 AM
   Further information on the French baroque lute concerts :
   1) Recital at Rowan University, march 3 at 8 pm :
   [11]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2) Recital in Boston : booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia :
   [12]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   Anthony
 __

   From: Anthony Hind [13]agno3ph...@yahoo.com;
   To: [14]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [15]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu;
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Concerts of French Baroque lute music
   Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2014 10:16:38 PM
 Dear lutenists
 For those who may be interested these concerts of French baroque lute
 music are announced:
 Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The Sun
   King
 A
 Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan University,
 New jersey, USA
 Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro, New
 Jersey, USA
 Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA
 Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.
 Tickets sold out
 Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia
   Chamber
 Music Society, Philadelphia, USA
 Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.
 American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia
 Regards
 Anthony[1]
 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 --
   References
 1. [16]http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://tinyurl.com/p2ehh6r
   2. http://tinyurl.com/pzfgbwn
   3. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   4. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   5. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   6. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   7. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   8. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   9. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  10. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  11. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  12. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  13. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  14. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  15. mailto:baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  16. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
  17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Concerts of French Baroque lute music

[Anthony Hind]

Further information on the French baroque lute concerts :
   1) Recital at Rowan University, march 3 at 8 pm :
   http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2) Recital in Boston : booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia :
   http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   Anthony
 __

   From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com;
   To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Concerts of French Baroque lute music
   Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2014 10:16:38 PM
 Dear lutenists
 For those who may be interested these concerts of French baroque lute
 music are announced:
 Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The Sun
   King
 A
 Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan University,
 New jersey, USA
 Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro, New
 Jersey, USA
 Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA
 Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.
 Tickets sold out
 Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia
   Chamber
 Music Society, Philadelphia, USA
 Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.
 American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia
 Regards
 Anthony[1]
 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 --
   References
 1. [1]http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Concerts

[Anthony Hind]

   Further information on the French baroque lute concerts :
   1) Recital at Rowan University, march 3 at 8 pm :
   [1]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2) Recital in Boston : booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia :
   [2]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

   On 29 janv. 2014, at 23:15, Anthony Hind [3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

 Dear lutenists
 For those who may be interested these concerts of French baroque lute
 music are announced:
 Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The Sun
   King
 A
 Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan University,
 New jersey, USA
 Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro, New
 Jersey, USA
 Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA
 Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.
 Tickets sold out
 Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia
   Chamber
 Music Society, Philadelphia, USA
 Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.
 American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia
 Regards
 Anthony
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   3. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Concerts

[Anthony Hind]

   A link apparently wasn't working so here they are again:

   CONCERT INFO
   Miguel Yisrael USA Tour 2014
   1) Recital at Rowan University, [1]March 3 of 2014 [2]at 8
   pm :[3]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2) Recital in Boston, [4]March 5 of 2014 [5]at 8 pm: booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia, [6]March 7 of 2014 [7]at 8
   pm:[8]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/

   On 31 janv. 2014, at 10:57, Anthony Hind [9]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:

 Further information on the French baroque lute concerts :
 1) Recital at Rowan University, march 3 at 8 pm :
 [1][10]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
 2) Recital in Boston : booked out
 3) Recital in Philadelphia :
 [2][11]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
 On 29 janv. 2014, at 23:15, Anthony Hind
   [3][12]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
   Dear lutenists
   For those who may be interested these concerts of French baroque
   lute
   music are announced:
   Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The Sun
 King
   A
   Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan
   University,
   New jersey, USA
   Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro, New
   Jersey, USA
   Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA
   Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.
   Tickets sold out
   Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia
 Chamber
   Music Society, Philadelphia, USA
   Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.
   American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia
   Regards
   Anthony
   --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [14]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
 2. [15]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
 3. [16]mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
 4. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. x-apple-data-detectors://0/
   2. x-apple-data-detectors://1/
   3. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   4. x-apple-data-detectors://3/
   5. x-apple-data-detectors://4/
   6. x-apple-data-detectors://5/
   7. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
   8. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   9. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  10. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  11. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  12. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  14. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  15. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  16. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[Anthony Hind]

An Italian lutenist  told me it was the equivalent of de-orba, to de orb 
thus to blind, the initial, 'd' would frequently be devoiced, giving teorba, 
but it is notoriously difficult to prove the etymology of a single word, and 
the explanation while amusing seems un peu tirée par les cheveux as they say 
in France.
Regards
Anthony

On 31 janv. 2014, at 20:00, Arto Wikla wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:

 
 Jakob Lindberg had a funny speculation: In the old Venice dialect ti orba 
 meant I'll blind you.
 Just think the problems with the long extension neck...
 
 Once I happened to hit the director of a choir, when he arrived to the front 
 of the choir and me with the theorbo; tiny river of blood in his head did not 
 harm his work, luckily...
 
 Arto
 
 On 31/01/14 23:45, Arthur Ness wrote:
 What is the etymology of the word tiorba?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
 Of Martyn Hodgson
 Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 12:03 AM
 To: David Tayler; lute
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 
As already pointed out on a number of occasions, the point about
tablature sources, rather than staff notation, is that they oblige a
particular tuning from the named instrument. Thus, for example, the
archlute tablature sources require top courses at the higher octave (ie
non re-entrant) - and vice versa for the theorbo tablatures. Your
stated belief that the archlute and theorbo were simply different names
for the same instrument('The terms arciliuto and tiorba are
high-degree interchangeable.') is not therefore supported by any of the
tablature sources
MH
  __
 
From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, 31 January 2014, 6:19
Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
  I don't see that staff notation is peculiar; it was a standard form
of
  notation. It is elegant and descriptive, and the choice of brilliant
  composers. There are even accounts in letters and diaries saying that
  it is better than tablature, presumably because it is more efficient
in
  showing the individual voices, or as part of the basso continuo
  movement, or to parallel the viol, and so on. Many more reasons as
  well, such as ornamentation.
  Mersenne's quote: one can interpret all the square data that does not
  fit into the round hole as errors, but because of the superfluity of
  square data I think it makes more sense to consider the terms
  high-degree interchangeable.
  Absence of viel ton: if music is written in mensural notation, there
is
  no way to know if it is viel ton or not in many cases, so the
absence
  is evidence only that ppl stopped using tab for some of the newer
  styles of music. Certainly the tuning had some serious competition.
  dt
__
  From: jean-michel Catherinot [1]jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com
  To: R. Mattes [2]r...@mh-freiburg.de; lute
[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Martyn
  Hodgson [4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
  Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:14 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
Yes: Zamboni in tablature., but indeed you know that!. I consider
  that
most of the arciliuto music is written in staff notation, may be
this
is a particularity of the instrument, and there is no doubt that
  tuning
is not re-entrant (just have a look to Hasse's Cleofide, for
  arciliuto
and compare with obligato parts for tiorba in Conti's Davide:
ambitus
and tessiture). . In staff notation, you mat consult, as I said,
obligato parts  in Hasse's  and Haendel's operas (and many others
it
seems, I'm trying to list them), and the concerti from Harrach
collection. It is not impossible that Zamboni was the composer of
the
solo sonata for arciliuto and the two aconcertinos' for arciliuto
  with
two violins and organ (all anonymous and in staff notation) from
the
Harrach library formerly owned by Robert Spencer and now at the
Royal
Academy of Music, London; another similar anonymous concerto for
arciliuto is among the newly-discovered items of chamber music at
Rohrau.
Concerning Mersenne, it is quite clear in french that while
renaming
the picture untitled tuorbe in archiluth, he corrects a mistake
  he
has  previously done (and he says explicitly that): and he gives
  quite
clearly the tuning for thA(c)orbe (re-entrant, in A) and the two
tunings for archiluth in G and A.
Concerning the use of archiluth in France (this is not our subject,
but...): at 

[LUTE] Re: Concerts

[Anthony Hind]

A problem still seems to occur, the Rowan university link, should have this 
last number : 628216
But it has been transformed to b28216.
You would need to copy the link and make the correction by hand, strange!
Regards
Anthony

On 31 janv. 2014, at 19:30, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote:

   A link apparently wasn't working so here they are again:
 
   CONCERT INFO
   Miguel Yisrael USA Tour 2014
   1) Recital at Rowan University, [1]March 3 of 2014 [2]at 8
   pm :[3]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   2) Recital in Boston, [4]March 5 of 2014 [5]at 8 pm: booked out
   3) Recital in Philadelphia, [6]March 7 of 2014 [7]at 8
   pm:[8]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
 
   On 31 janv. 2014, at 10:57, Anthony Hind [9]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:
 
 Further information on the French baroque lute concerts :
 1) Recital at Rowan University, march 3 at 8 pm :
 [1][10]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
 2) Recital in Boston : booked out
 3) Recital in Philadelphia :
 [2][11]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
 On 29 janv. 2014, at 23:15, Anthony Hind
   [3][12]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
   Dear lutenists
   For those who may be interested these concerts of French baroque
   lute
   music are announced:
   Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The Sun
 King
   A
   Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan
   University,
   New jersey, USA
   Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro, New
   Jersey, USA
   Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA
   Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.
   Tickets sold out
   Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia
 Chamber
   Music Society, Philadelphia, USA
   Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.
   American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia
   Regards
   Anthony
   --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [14]http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
 2. [15]http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
 3. [16]mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
 4. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
   --
 
 References
 
   1. x-apple-data-detectors://0/
   2. x-apple-data-detectors://1/
   3. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
   4. x-apple-data-detectors://3/
   5. x-apple-data-detectors://4/
   6. x-apple-data-detectors://5/
   7. x-apple-data-detectors://6/
   8. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
   9. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  10. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  11. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  12. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  14. http://rowan.tix.com/Event.asp?Eventb8216
  15. http://www.pcmsconcerts.org/concerts/miguel-yisrael-lute/
  16. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
  17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Concerts

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
   For those who may be interested these concerts of French baroque lute
   music are announced:
   Miguel Yisrael's USA Official Tour 2014 - A The Lute of The Sun King
   A
   Concert 1 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Rowan University,
   New jersey, USA
   Monday, March 3th of 2014, 8 p.m. Rowan University, Glassboro, New
   Jersey, USA
   Concert 2 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Boston, USA
   Wednesday, March 5th of 2014, 8 p.m.
   Tickets sold out
   Concert 3 - Miguel Yisrael, baroque lute recital - Philadelphia Chamber
   Music Society, Philadelphia, USA
   Friday March 7th of 2014, 8 p.m.
   American Philosophical Society, Philadelphia
   Regards
   Anthony

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Baroque Concert

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
Here is a link to a baroque lute and flute duet, recorded by
   Didier Jarny and put on line by Pascale Bocquet and the SFL of a
   Baroque concert held on the 14th of April 2013 at l'Arcades Institue de
   Tours, the De Visee, Suite in G major with Anna Besson : traverso, and
   Benjamin Narvey : Baroque lute
   http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vazmwXckpFsdesktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dvaz
   mwXckpFs
   or
   http://tinyurl.com/qxxe525
   A Happy New year to all
   Anthony

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Baroque concert

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear lutenists
Here is a link to a baroque lute and flute duet, recorded by
   Didier Jarny and put on line by Pascale Bocquet and the SFL of a
   Baroque concert held on the 14th of April 2013 at l'Arcades Institue de
   Tours, the De Visee, Suite in G major with Anna Besson : traverso, and
   Benjamin Narvey : Baroque lute
   http://tinyurl.com/qxxe525
   A Happy New year to all
   Anthony

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 2 new videos

[Anthony Hind]

Superb recording and performance, Ed;
wonderful to hear such sensitive playing of twin lutes strung in the same way 
in gut by the same string and lute maker and recorded with such sympathy.
Please transmit my congratulations to the whole team involved in this 
enterprise.
Regards
Anthony



Sent from my iPhone

On 3 juil. 2013, at 17:56, Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com wrote:

 Dear ones,
 
 I am announcing to the group that Thomas Walker and I have recorded 2 
 videos of the music of Vieux Gaultier.  These videos were recorded in 
 December, as a part of a new recording project entitled, courante, 
 which will be a CD of French baroque lute duets.  The audio CD was 
 recently recorded on June 22nd and 23rd, in the Sacred Heart Music 
 Center, which is the same space where this video was made.
 
 The first video listed is a chaconne in A major by Vieux Gauliter, 
 and being a solo lute piece, Gamut Music commissioned a 
 counterpartie, which was composed by Minnesoata Composer Tyler 
 Kaiser, transforming the piece into a duet.  Counterparties were 
 utilized a great deal during the times of the French Baroque Lute, 
 and we are continuing in this tradition.  This video project was 
 produced by Gamut Music, as a prelude for the CD, which is scheduled 
 be released this autumn.  It was actually a very involved production, 
 with cinema director, a few cinematographers, audio engineer, 
 etc.  We used a matching set of Frei lutes, entirely strung in pure 
 gut throughout, with no metal added to the basses (i.e. no gimped, 
 loaded, wound, etc).  The video I think captures the images and sound 
 of these gut strings, fairly true to life.  Please view it in full 
 screen, high definition to appreciate the quality of the video.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKrIYrhMljcfeature=youtu.be
 
 The 2nd video was filmed in the same session, but it was much less 
 involved, without the cinema director, and only 1 
 cinematographer.  Both parts of the Canaries are found in the Vaudry 
 de Saizenay I MS.  Once again, please view in full screen, high definition.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ue9fQZeSPA
 
 
 We hope you will enjoy these videos.
 
 ed
 
 
 
 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  e...@gamutstrings.com
 voice:  (218) 728-1202
 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name
 http://www.myspace.com/edslute
 http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: The golden rose

[Anthony Hind]

I suppose, Leonard, if any effect, it would be more like loading, so possibly 
more damping than brightening. Although, it would probably be too thin to make 
an audible difference.
Just my intuition.
Regards
Anthony

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 juin 2013, at 01:13, Leonard Williams arc...@verizon.net wrote:

 How would a gilded rose affect the sound of the instrument?  Though the
 gilding would surely be thin, wouldn't that extra mass affect harmonic
 responses, the way a wire affects a string in gimped gut?
 
 Leonard
 
 
 
 On 6/22/13 7:27 AM, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 
  Dear David,
  You are probably right - forget the papal rose line. Though perhaps the
  rose reference is some personal link known to those around G at the
  time. But perhaps a gilded rose is likely - I'm just cautious about
  proceeding from speculation to certainty
  It does sound, tho', as if the thing had been nicked!
  regards
  Martyn
__
 
  From: David Van Edwards da...@vanedwards.co.uk
  To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
  Sent: Saturday, 22 June 2013, 10:30
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: The golden rose
  Dear Martyn,
  Thank you very much for the reference, it would have taken me ages to
  find starting from the beginning!!
  But apropos your ideas of The Golden Rose Lute referring to the Papal
  golden rose there are these words following the Gaultier piece quoted:
  The first part of the lesson representeth the enquiry after the lute,
  and kind promises for those that shall give any notice of it; the
  second part representeth first the trouble and hurly-burly of the
  seeking after the lute; and the conclusion is a complaint of the loss
  of the lute that can not be found. 
  Which does sound to me rather specific to an instrument.
  Of course it could be symbolic in some obscure way but the references
  to the papal golden rose you sent do not contain any idea of loss,
  rather the reverse, since the rose itself seems to refer to the
  resurrection and the blessings that follow. Any loss of those would
  rather undermine the whole edifice of Christianity!
  Best wishes,
  David
 
 Dear David,
   The piece appears in Chapter XV (f.69-87) of the MS 'Concerning
the art
   of setting Lessons uppon the Lute'.
   I'm not sure if you'll find anything to elaborate on what
precisely was
   meant by the 'golden rose' lute (ie an actual gilded rose or
possibly
   some other association), since it says nothing about the 'Golden
Rose
   Lute' itself but merely precedes the relevant piece with the
   words: 'The loss of the golden rose lute; a lesson of Old
Gaultier upon
   the goat's tuning'
   Incidentally, you may find Dart's modern transcription (which is
   accurate as far as I can see) easier to read; it appeared in the
1958
   Galpin Soc journal.
   regards
   Martyn
 
__
   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: Lute Dmth lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 16:37
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: The golden rose
 - Forwarded Message -
 From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 To: David Van Edwards [2]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
 Cc: 'LuteNet list' [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, 21 June 2013, 8:16
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: The golden rose
 Dear David,
 I was under the, perhaps wholly mistaken, impression that 'The
loss
   of
 the golden rose lute' found in the Burwell MS was some other
 association rather then the actual gilding of the lute rose.
For
 example it could be linked to the papal rose of the name, see
 [1][4]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06629a.htm
 or
 [2][5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rose
 Or maybe other associations from antiquity. Just a
 thought...
 regards
 Martyn
 
__
 From: David Van Edwards [6]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
 To: Luca Manassero [7]l...@manassero.net
 Cc: 'LuteNet list' [8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Thursday, 20 June 2013, 20:13
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: The golden rose
 Dear Luca,
 Yes there are 8 surviving lutes that I know of with gilded
roses.
 1. The 16th century lute by Wolfgang Wolf
 currently in Fuessen Museum has a gilded rose.
 Impossible to say if it is original as it has
 certainly been roughly gilded since then.
 2.Lute by Jakob Langenwalder [Fuessen 1627] in Kremsmuenster,
 Benediktinerstift
 3.Lute by Georg Greiff [Fuessen 1590] in
 Darmstadt, Hessisches Landesmuseum Kg 67: 103
 (Orig M.I. 29)
 4. 

[LUTE] Re: Lute bass strings - was Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?

[Anthony Hind]

 in 17c. lived in,
   we
 would be extremely surprised by some standards they were used to. It
   is in
 fact like traveling to another planet, and we can not do justice to
   this
 kind of sources without making some necessary adjustments.
 
 It was a pleasure to talk to you again Anthony.
 
 Best regards
 
 Jaroslaw
 
 
 
 - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind
   [3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
 To: JarosAA'aw Lipski [4]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 Cc: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:19 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?
 
 
 Dear Jaroslaw
 A' A' A' A' As promised, back now in Paris, I will try to
 respond, with a few new thoughts on Mace's string remarks, along
   with
 the old, as when we talked last at
 [6]http://tinyurl.com/cugfph2
 MaceA-c-s remarks can be found at
 [7]http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringsmace.htm
 But the CNRS facsimile is such a bargain, every lutenist should
   surely have
 one; unless, like a lute maker I know, you are lucky enough to be
   given
 an original edition for your birthday ...
 %
 First, I must say that my previous message, about loaded strings
   being fairly
 immune to humidity, only concerned modern loaded strings, which are
 coated with copper in a sort of glue. If historic deep dark red
 Pistoys had been loaded through saturation, with say a solution of
   red
 mercury oxide (akin to a dyeing procin to a dyeing process), I
   donA-c-t know if they would
 have been quite so immune to water absorption. But probably oxide
 loading (rather like salting hams) might have prevented them
   rotting, or
 at leastA' slowed the process down (are there any chemists among you
   who
 could say if this is likely?).
 %
 I will reply to your messages, but breaking up my responses to
   lighten the load:
 I) Why MaceA-c-s Pistoy Basses dyed Deep dark red are quite
   different from
 his omnipurpose plain red coloured strings, and are not therefore
 particularly prone to rotting according to Mace.
 II) How reliable, and not just excentric, is Mace, a few arguments
   in his favour?
 A) Meanes used for octaves? B) Why were the Lyons Burwell thought so
   good,
 now so bad, according to Mace? (some data on out sourcing from
 Barbieri)
 %
 I) Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?
 In relation to the rotting tendency of red strings, you ask me,
 A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' A' how will you explain a
   quote from Mace p.66:
 A' A' I have sometimes seen strings of a yellowish color very
   good; yet but
 A' A' seldom; for that color is a general sign of rottenness, or of
   the decay
 A' A' of the string. There are several sorts of colored strings,
   very good;
 A' A' but the best was always the clear blue; the red commonly
   rotten.
 A' A' As far as I understand red color is a most popular color of
   loaded
 A' A' string. If this is so, how then they could be commonly
   rotten? Jaroslaw
 Perhaps the underlying question, here (please tell me if I am
   wrong), is
 whether, when Mace describes Red coloured strings as commonly
   rotten
 (your quote above), he is including in this description, all red
   strings
 without exception (dyed or coloured), even those from Pistoy, which
   are
 dyedA' deep dark red. In other words, is he saying Pistoys are
 commonly rotten? and if so, would this rule them out as being loaded
 strings?
 %
 Here, is my reasoning: Mace had a very strong preoccupation with
   rotten gut,
 clearly from personal experience (althoughxperience (although I have
   never encountered this
 problem), and he therefore gives detailed advice on how to store
 strings to make sure they don't take any wet, or moist air.
   Further,
 whenever he mentions a string liable to rot, he immediately states
   this
 within the next few sentences, as in all these cases :
 There is a small sort of lyons, which many use for the Octaves. But
   I care
 not for them, they being constantly rotten, and good for little, but
   to
 make frets of.
 (...)
 I have sometimes seen strings of a yellowish colour, very good;
   yet, but
 seldom; for that colour is a general sign of rottenness, or of the
   decay
 of the string.
 (...)
 There are several sorts of coloured strings, very good; But the
   best (to my
 observation) was always the clear Blue; the Red, commonly rotten,
 sometimes green, very good.
 %
 It would therefore be very surprising if he had not done the same
   for
 Pistoy Basses, if he had really thought they were often rotten,
 especially as they were rare. Why allow a student to waste time
 searching them out, if they are both rare, and often rottenA' ? But
   he
 only speaks of their excellent quality (next to the heading, And
   what
 sort of strings are best?), and clearly contrasts them with the
 inferior Lyons, They are indeed the very best, for the basses,
   being
 smooth and well twisted strings, but are hard to come by; however
   out of
 a good parcel of Lyons strings, you may (with care) pick those which

[LUTE] Re: Pistoys prone to rot (and string structure) according to Mace?

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Jaroslaw
   Thank you again for raising the discussion. I quite understand
   and am very happy that you are busy, a very good thing for a musician.
   It happens that I have to travel for the next few weeks (unfortunately,
   not on tour as for yourself), so it would be best for me to gather my
   thoughts, and come back to this after Christmas. I have just been able
   to respond punctually on one or two questions.
   On the question of the tendency to putrify, or simply to be badly made
   of Lyons according to Mace. The important thing to notice is that this
   is not true of the Pistoys (according to him). Interestingly a few
   years before, the Burwell text indicates that Lyons and Romans are
   excellent strings and none other any good.
   Barbieri's research came up with documents showing that French
   merchants, presumably from Lyons actually brought a model of string to
   the Roman atelier (probably new basses for the new French lute) and
   from then on during a fairly long period imported a huge ammount of
   strings from Rome. It seems that the Lyons strings were outsourced. Now
   the demands being very large, perhaps this did result in a slip in
   quality (as this tends to do now).
   In Burwell there is no mention of Pistoys. Is it possible that the
   Pistoy basses that are mentioned in Mace were the response of other
   Italian string makers to the huge output of sometimes sub standard
   basses from Rome? Well this is just speculation; and whether, the one
   type were loaded and the other not is of course further speculation.
   The ones from Rome could just as well have been rather badly loaded.
   It would not be surprising however, if an important musician of the
   time, as Charles Mouton certainly was, seems to have been caught by
   de Troy using those very best bass types.
   So much for now, but I will be pleased to come back to our discussion
   in the new year (something to look forward to).
   Regards
   Anthony
   - Mail original -
   De : jaroslawlip...@wp.pl jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   AEUR : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Cc :
   EnvoyA(c) le : Mercredi 28 novembre 2012 22h53
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Pistoys prone to rot (and string structure)
   according to Mace?
   Dear Anthony,
   As I said before, Martyn or Howard may be right, but if one reads the
   whole context it seems rather unlikely. Mace uses the word aEURzdecay
   in places where he definitely means decomposition. The quote about an
   old oak in my previous message maybe a good example. You can't expect
   that he meant aEURzpoor quality oak. He talks about a rotting,
   decomposing old tree. And he had a good sense of observation. For
   example he mentions that gut strings swell when there is a moisture in
   the air. The fact that he goes on saying that small Lyons are
   constantly rotten aEURzand good for little, but to make frets of,
   doesn't contradict anything as probably a rotting string wouldn't be
   rotten on the whole length, but in a couple of limited places, so using
   the remaining sound part seems to be a very good idea.
   I agree with you that small Lyons were probably HT.
   Anthony, I will answer you later as I am very pressed for time these
   days. I will have much more time before Christmas. Meanwhile you'll
   probably write more too, no?
   All the best
   Jaroslaw
   - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind
   [1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   To: howard posner [2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com; howard posner
   [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Martyn Hodgson
   [4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   Cc: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:37 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pistoys prone to rot (and string structure)
   according to Mace?
Dear Jaroslaw
Unfortunately I don't have time just now to reply in any detail about
   all these interesting questions you raise, but I will nevertheless do
   so, as soon as I have enough time to do your analysis justice.
Just on this issue of the meaning of rottenness. I find that Martyn
   did have a good point. Mace does say that Lyons tend to be rotten, but
   then goes on to say that they are only fit to be used as frets. Of
   course this could just be a figure of speech, but taken literally a
   decaying string should not be fit for making frets. This leads Martyn
   to consider that rotten here rather means a poor string. Although,
   assuming the other meaning (putrified) I suppose it might still be
   possible to use the parts of the string that were not rotten?
%
If small Lyons did tend to rot (while Pistoys didn't), I would agree
   with Jaroslaw that this could perhaps imply that Lyons had not
   undergone quite the same treatments (loading/curing) as Pistoys.
   However, Mace only says this of small Lyons (presumably Meanes which
   would not have been loaded) but not of Lyons Basses, which he just says
   are not particularly good.
%
Another point might be that, if we are to take

[LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys, according to Mace, wirewounds?

[Anthony Hind]

; But in that I intend it chiefly for learners, I conceive
 I have not spoke much too much. If he was to write for a king he would be
 afraid of saying much too much, and eccentricity of his book would be
 comparable to some French tutors written for a court.

 Therefore, when reading Music's Monument one has to remember that if we were
 allowed to spend just an hour in the reality people in 17c. lived in, we
 would be extremely surprised by some standards they were used to. It is in
 fact like traveling to another planet, and we can not do justice to this
 kind of sources without making some necessary adjustments.

 It was a pleasure to talk to you again Anthony.

 Best regards

 Jaroslaw



 - Original Message - From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
 To: Jarosław Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 1:19 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?


 Dear Jaroslaw
 Â Â Â Â As promised, back now in Paris, I will try to
 respond, with a few new thoughts on Mace's string remarks, along with
 the old, as when we talked last at
 http://tinyurl.com/cugfph2
 Maceâs remarks can be found at
 http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringsmace.htm
 But the CNRS facsimile is such a bargain, every lutenist should surely have
 one; unless, like a lute maker I know, you are lucky enough to be given
 an original edition for your birthday ...
 %
 First, I must say that my previous message, about loaded strings being 
 fairly
 immune to humidity, only concerned modern loaded strings, which are
 coated with copper in a sort of glue. If historic deep dark red
 Pistoys had been loaded through saturation, with say a solution of red
 mercury oxide (akin to a dyeing procin to a dyeing process), I donât know 
 if they would
 have been quite so immune to water absorption. But probably oxide
 loading (rather like salting hams) might have prevented them rotting, or
 at least slowed the process down (are there any chemists among you who
 could say if this is likely?).
 %
 I will reply to your messages, but breaking up my responses to lighten the 
 load:
 I) Why Maceâs Pistoy Basses dyed Deep dark red are quite different from
 his omnipurpose plain red coloured strings, and are not therefore
 particularly prone to rotting according to Mace.
 II) How reliable, and not just excentric, is Mace, a few arguments in his 
 favour?
 A) Meanes used for octaves? B) Why were the Lyons Burwell thought so good,
 now so bad, according to Mace? (some data on out sourcing from
 Barbieri)
 %
 I) Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?
 In relation to the rotting tendency of red strings, you ask me,
 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â how will you explain a quote from Mace p.66:
 Â Â I have sometimes seen strings of a yellowish color very good; yet but
 Â Â seldom; for that color is a general sign of rottenness, or of the decay
 Â Â of the string. There are several sorts of colored strings, very good;
 Â Â but the best was always the clear blue; the red commonly rotten.
 Â Â As far as I understand red color is a most popular color of loaded
 Â Â string. If this is so, how then they could be commonly rotten? 
 Jaroslaw
 Perhaps the underlying question, here (please tell me if I am wrong), is
 whether, when Mace describes Red coloured strings as commonly rotten
 (your quote above), he is including in this description, all red strings
 without exception (dyed or coloured), even those from Pistoy, which are
 dyed deep dark red. In other words, is he saying Pistoys are
 commonly rotten? and if so, would this rule them out as being loaded
 strings?
 %
 Here, is my reasoning: Mace had a very strong preoccupation with rotten gut,
 clearly from personal experience (althoughxperience (although I have never 
 encountered this
 problem), and he therefore gives detailed advice on how to store
 strings to make sure they don't take any wet, or moist air. Further,
 whenever he mentions a string liable to rot, he immediately states this
 within the next few sentences, as in all these cases :
 There is a small sort of lyons, which many use for the Octaves. But I care
 not for them, they being constantly rotten, and good for little, but to
 make frets of.
 (...)
 I have sometimes seen strings of a yellowish colour, very good; yet, but
 seldom; for that colour is a general sign of rottenness, or of the decay
 of the string.
 (...)
 There are several sorts of coloured strings, very good; But the best (to my
 observation) was always the clear Blue; the Red, commonly rotten,
 sometimes green, very good.
 %
 It would therefore be very surprising if he had not done the same for
 Pistoy Basses, if he had really thought they were often rotten,
 especially as they were rare. Why allow a student to waste time
 searching them out, if they are both rare, and often rotten ? But he
 only speaks of their excellent quality (next to the heading, And what
 sort of strings are best?), and clearly contrasts them with the
 inferior

[LUTE] Re: Pistoys prone to rot (and string structure) according to Mace?

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Jaroslaw
   Unfortunately I don't have time just now to reply in any detail about all 
these interesting questions you raise, but I will nevertheless do so, as soon 
as I have enough time to do your analysis justice.
Just on this issue of the meaning of rottenness. I find that Martyn did have a 
good point. Mace does say that Lyons tend to be rotten, but then goes on to say 
that they are only fit to be used as frets. Of course this could just be a 
figure of speech, but taken literally a decaying string should not be fit for 
making frets. This leads Martyn to consider that rotten here rather means a 
poor string. Although, assuming the other meaning (putrified) I suppose it 
might still be possible to use the parts of the string that were not rotten?
%
If small Lyons did tend to rot (while Pistoys didn't), I would agree with 
Jaroslaw that this could perhaps imply that Lyons had not undergone quite the 
same treatments (loading/curing) as Pistoys. However, Mace only says this of 
small Lyons (presumably Meanes which would not have been loaded) but not of 
Lyons Basses, which he just says are not particularly good.
%
Another point might be that, if we are to take Mace's remark literally, and 
believe that Lyons Meanes might have worked as frets, then this could possibly 
also tell us something else about the structure of Lyons. Might this not imply 
that Lyons were HT rather than more elastic ropes. I am frankly not sure about 
this, but would a soft flexible Venice twine rope work well as a fret. Don't we 
need a certain hardness in a fret? Might this not imply that Lyons (at least 
Lyons Meanes) were HT?  But this remains an open question, as I just don't have 
any experience with trying out twine, or indeed tresses, as frets (perhaps they 
do work?), and Mace's words might not have been intended literally. 
%
Venice Octaves:
   Now if, as suggested by Mace, Pistoys had the same structure as Venice 
Catlines, then his remarks about using Venices Meanes for Octaves, could also 
possibly tell us something about Pistoys.
%
An indication that Mace's Venice Catline Meanes were perhaps twine ropes, comes 
from the fact that he advises players to use Venice Meanes both for 5c and 4c, 
but also for all octaves but only down to 7c (but not for 6c Octave, for which 
he advises treble Minikins). This could imply that the Venice Meanes structure 
would not allow them to be made thin enough for 6c (on my lute 4c and 7c Octave 
are about the same size near 80, while 6c Octave and 3c treble are around 60). 
I notice that MPs twines only go down to 70 (not small enough for 6c Octave), 
while of course an HT can be made much smaller. On the other hand tresses 
(Dan's Pistoys for example) only seem to go down to about 100. This limit could 
perhaps be inherently determined by the varying structure: single element HT, 
opposed to two element twine, and three element tress (where perhaps the fewer 
the elements the smaller the string can be made?).
If this corresponds to a general rule about twine, HT, and tress structure (but 
perhaps it doesn't?), then Mace's Venices might have been twines (the only ones 
to go down to 7c octave but no further?). 
Now, if Mace was further correct in considering that Pistoys were thick Venices 
then these might also have been twine.
However, in contrast, I notice that while Mace mentions that small Lyons Meanes 
were also often used for octaves, he does not mention any similar limit on 
their use (down to 7c). This could be an omission, as he doesn't advise their 
use, but we find the same sort of comment in Burwell, where the use of Small 
Lyons Meanes are also advised for octaves. However, here again there is no 
limit indicated on their use (say down to 7c). There is no mention at all of  
Venices in Burwell, so there is no possible contrast indicated. 
%
If the presence of this comment about a size constraint for Venice octaves (in 
Mace) but no similar comment for Lyons octaves (in Mace or Burwell) is at all 
significant, then this could be another indication of a structural difference 
between Venices and Lyons; perhaps we have a small clue here that Lyons Meanes 
(and perhaps also basses?) were HT, while Venices (and possibly Pistoys?) were 
twine. 
%
Well, I am drawing strong conclusions from a few passing remarks, and so I 
quite understand if anyone considers this pure speculation.
Thank you Jaroslaw for raising all this, I will try to get back to you on other 
points, as soon as possible?
Regards
Anthony

- Mail original -
De : howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com
À : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc : 
Envoyé le : Mardi 27 novembre 2012 21h51
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?


On Nov 27, 2012, at 10:35 AM, jaroslawlip...@wp.pl wrote:

 The word decay reappears several times in the technical part of Music's
 Monument, always in conjunction with the word rottenness. This can't be
 coincidental.

You may be right about Mace using rottenness in 

[LUTE] Re: Gut string prices.

[Anthony Hind]

   Very interesting Ed,
   I have been using beef  gut.  I cannot tell the difference in sound
   and feel from sheep gut,  Ed
   There has been discussion from time to time suggesting that beef gut
   might sound brighter.
   Can you confirm that even for trebles there is little or no difference?
   Is the intuneness also about the same?
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
   A : Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net; Herbert Ward
   wa...@physics.utexas.edu
   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Mardi 23 octobre 2012 5h57
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Gut string prices.
   Very old news, but of corse, Dan lives just one block from me, so I
   often hear interesting tidbits about the business of gut.
   Your Pistoy is1.84?  Child's play, as the Pitoy for my 11-th course
   on my 11-course lute is a 2.02.  Great sting, I may add!
   Lately, out of not purely economical reasons, I have been using beef
   gut.  I cannot tell the difference in sound and feel from sheep gut,
   but they are cheaper, and last a lot longer.
   My 2 hank's worth!
   At 08:03 PM 10/22/2012, Dan Winheld wrote:
   Well, that particular news is almost 11 months old- but quite
   alright to give Dan Larson a plug. I just spent nearly $70 for a new
   8th course Pistoy bass string fundamental -  1.84 mm. One string!
   But I have to say it was worth it. Pulls the whole lute together,
   soundwise.
   
   Dan
   
   
   On 10/22/2012 1:26 PM, Herbert Ward wrote:
   Possibly of interest to the list community.
   Sorry if I'm posting old news.
   
   [1]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/string-economics-101.html
   
   
   
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   Edward Martin
   2817 East 2nd Street
   Duluth, Minnesota  55812
   e-mail:  [3]e...@gamutstrings.com
   voice:  (218) 728-1202
   [4]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
   [5]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
   [6]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin

   --

References

   1. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/string-economics-101.html
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
   4. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
   5. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
   6. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin

[LUTE] Re: Gut string prices.

[Anthony Hind]

   Hello Ed
  Well that is very nice to know, considering the jump in price.
   Perhaps the main difference might be between the slightly different
   treatments of each string maker (twist etc), more than the difference
   in gut material. I imagine the difference in metal type (silver/copper)
   on a gimped string might be greater than a beef/sheep difference?
   Best regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
   A : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com; Edward Martin
   e...@gamutstrings.com
   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Mardi 23 octobre 2012 17h14
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Gut string prices.
   Hi Anthony,
   I think the sound is very close, it is difficult
   for me to tell the difference.  If there is any
   difference in sound, I think the beef gut might
   be a little louder, but that is subjective.
   ed
   At 03:41 AM 10/23/2012, Anthony Hind wrote:
   Very interesting Ed,
   I have been using beef  gut.  I cannot tell the
   difference in sound and feel from sheep gut,  Ed
   There has been discussion from time to time
   suggesting that beef gut might sound brighter.
   Can you confirm that even for trebles there is little or no
   difference?
   Is the intuneness also about the same?
   Regards
   Anthony
   
   
   
   De : Edward Martin [1]e...@gamutstrings.com
   A : Dan Winheld [2]dwinh...@lmi.net; Herbert Ward
   [3]wa...@physics.utexas.edu
   Cc : [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Mardi 23 octobre 2012 5h57
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Gut string prices.
   
   Very old news, but of corse, Dan lives just one block from me, so I
   often hear interesting tidbits about the business of gut.
   
   Your Pistoy is1.84?  Child's play, as the Pitoy for my 11-th course
   on my 11-course lute is a 2.02.  Great sting, I may add!
   
   Lately, out of not purely economical reasons, I have been using beef
   gut.  I cannot tell the difference in sound and feel from sheep gut,
   but they are cheaper, and last a lot longer.
   
   My 2 hank's worth!
   
   
   
   
   At 08:03 PM 10/22/2012, Dan Winheld wrote:
Well, that particular news is almost 11 months old- but quite
alright to give Dan Larson a plug. I just spent nearly $70 for a new
8th course Pistoy bass string fundamental -  1.84 mm. One string!
But I have to say it was worth it. Pulls the whole lute together,
   soundwise.

Dan


On 10/22/2012 1:26 PM, Herbert Ward wrote:
Possibly of interest to the list community.
Sorry if I'm posting old news.

[5]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/string
   
   -economics-101.html[6]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/string-ec
   onomics-101.html



To get on or off this list see list information at
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/i
ndex.html[8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   
   
   
   Edward Martin
   2817 East 2nd Street
   Duluth, Minnesota  55812
   e-mail:  mailto:[9]e...@gamutstrings.com[10]e...@gamutstrings.com
   voice:  (218) 728-1202
   [11]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name[12]http:
   //www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
   [13]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
   [14]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin[15]http://magnatune.c
   om/artists/edward_martin
   
   
   
   
   Edward Martin
   2817 East 2nd Street
   Duluth, Minnesota  55812
   e-mail:  [16]e...@gamutstrings.com
   voice:  (218) 728-1202
   [17]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
   [18]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
   [19]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin

   --

References

   1. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
   2. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   3. mailto:wa...@physics.utexas.edu
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/string
   6. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/string-economics-101.html
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/i
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
  10. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
  11. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
  12. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
  13. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
  14. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
  15. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
  16. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
  17. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871ref=name
  18. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
  19. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin

[LUTE] Charles Mouton unavailable, Louvres

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear All
  I went down to the Louvres to have a new look at the basses on
   de Troy Charles Mouton painting, and learnt that most of the 17th
   century French painting section is closed for the construction of a
   safety exit. The works look very important, and no idea when it will
   reopen.
   Regards
   Anthony

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Martin
    You are probably right on that issue, particularly in relation to 
frets, we do have to beware of reading Mace as modern English.
I think we need to be careful not to make assumptions of what Mace
   meant by 'rotten'.  It seems to me he means weak/liable to break
   easily/friable/tearable rather than rotten in the sense of decaying,
   soft or decomposing meat. That he can make frets of them surely
   indicates they were not decomposing but merely prone to breaking. 
%
This would not really change the  fact that rotting of red strings (perhaps 
prone to breaking) does not apply to Pistoys (as Jaroslaw seemed to imply in 
his message). I don't think they are included in the set referred to later as 
red coloured strings (for the reasons I point out).
%
The other matter raised is that if some of these strings were so bad,
   how is it that they continued to be supplied commercially? 
I think the problem, as concerns Lyons, is that there was too great a demand, 
and they were therefore outsourced from Rome. The quantities of strings out 
sourced seem to imply a very large consumption of strings for French lute music.
Thanks for your remarks
Anthony





De : Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
À : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com 
Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Envoyé le : Samedi 20 octobre 2012 15h14
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?


   Dear Anthony,

   You write of Mace - 'Mace had a very strong preoccupation with rotten
   gut, clearly from personal experience (although I have never
   encountered this problem), and he therefore gives detailed advice on
   how to store strings to make sure they don't take any wet, or moist
   air. Further, whenever he mentions a string liable to rot, he
   immediately states this within the next few sentences, as in all these
   cases :There is a small sort of lyons, which many use for the Octaves.
   But I care not for them, they being constantly rotten, and good for
   little, but to make frets of.

   I think we need to be careful not to make assumptions of what Mace
   meant by 'rotten'.  It seems to me he means weak/liable to break
   easily/friable/tearable rather than rotten in the sense of decaying,
   soft or decomposing meat. That he can make frets of them surely
   indicates they were not decomposing but merely prone to breaking.
   Keeping gut strings dry is just common prudence (applicable today) to
   avoid distortion and the like.

   The other matter raised is that if some of these strings were so bad,
   how is it that they continued to be supplied commercially? Presumably
   the answer is cost - even nowadays we make compromises if the expense
   is great and, for example, I often use Nylgut in place of natural gut
   because I can't afford to string all my instruments with the best
   available materials.

   regards

   Martyn

   --- On Sat, 20/10/12, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote:

     From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
     Subject: [LUTE] Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?
     To: JarosAA'aw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
     Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
     Date: Saturday, 20 October, 2012, 13:19

   Dear Jaroslaw
        As promised, back now in Paris, I will try to
   respond, with a few new thoughts on Mace's string remarks, along with
   the old, as when we talked last at
   [1]http://tinyurl.com/cugfph2
   Mace's remarks can be found at
   [2]http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringsmace.htm
   But the CNRS facsimile is such a bargain, every lutenist should surely
   have
   one; unless, like a lute maker I know, you are lucky enough to be given
   an original edition for your birthday ...
   %
   First, I must say that my previous message, about loaded strings being
   fairly
   immune to humidity, only concerned modern loaded strings, which are
   coated with copper in a sort of glue. If historic deep dark red
   Pistoys had been loaded through saturation, with say a solution of red
   mercury oxide (akin to a dyeing process), I don't know if they would
   have been quite so immune to water absorption. But probably oxide
   loading (rather like salting hams) might have prevented them rotting,
   or
   at least  slowed the process down (are there any chemists among you who
   could say if this is likely?).
   %
   I will reply to your messages, but breaking up my responses to lighten
   the load:
   I) Why Mace's Pistoy Basses dyed Deep dark red are quite different from
   his omnipurpose plain red coloured strings, and are not therefore
   particularly prone to rotting according to Mace.
   II) How reliable, and not just excentric, is Mace, a few arguments in
   his favour?
   A) Meanes used for octaves? B) Why were the Lyons Burwell thought so
   good,
   now so bad, according to Mace? (some data on out sourcing from
   Barbieri)
   %
   I) Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace

[LUTE] off list

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Martyn
    Oups, sorry for the name slip, I was not thinking you were Martin
Regards, and thanks for your remarks
Anthony




- Mail original -
De : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
À : Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoyé le : Samedi 20 octobre 2012 15h52
Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?



Dear Martin
    You are probably right on that issue, particularly in relation to 
frets, we do have to beware of reading Mace as modern English.
I think we need to be careful not to make assumptions of what Mace
   meant by 'rotten'.  It seems to me he means weak/liable to break
   easily/friable/tearable rather than rotten in the sense of decaying,
   soft or decomposing meat. That he can make frets of them surely
   indicates they were not decomposing but merely prone to breaking. 
%
This would not really change the  fact that rotting of red strings (perhaps 
prone to breaking) does not apply to Pistoys (as Jaroslaw seemed to imply in 
his message). I don't think they are included in the set referred to later as 
red coloured strings (for the reasons I point out).
%
The other matter raised is that if some of these strings were so bad,
   how is it that they continued to be supplied commercially? 
I think the problem, as concerns Lyons, is that there was too great a demand, 
and they were therefore outsourced from Rome. The quantities of strings out 
sourced seem to imply a very large consumption of strings for French lute music.
Thanks for your remarks
Anthony





De : Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
À : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com 
Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Envoyé le : Samedi 20 octobre 2012 15h14
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?


   Dear Anthony,

   You write of Mace - 'Mace had a very strong preoccupation with rotten
   gut, clearly from personal experience (although I have never
   encountered this problem), and he therefore gives detailed advice on
   how to store strings to make sure they don't take any wet, or moist
   air. Further, whenever he mentions a string liable to rot, he
   immediately states this within the next few sentences, as in all these
   cases :There is a small sort of lyons, which many use for the Octaves.
   But I care not for them, they being constantly rotten, and good for
   little, but to make frets of.

   I think we need to be careful not to make assumptions of what Mace
   meant by 'rotten'.  It seems to me he means weak/liable to break
   easily/friable/tearable rather than rotten in the sense of decaying,
   soft or decomposing meat. That he can make frets of them surely
   indicates they were not decomposing but merely prone to breaking.
   Keeping gut strings dry is just common prudence (applicable today) to
   avoid distortion and the like.

   The other matter raised is that if some of these strings were so bad,
   how is it that they continued to be supplied commercially? Presumably
   the answer is cost - even nowadays we make compromises if the expense
   is great and, for example, I often use Nylgut in place of natural gut
   because I can't afford to string all my instruments with the best
   available materials.

   regards

   Martyn

   --- On Sat, 20/10/12, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote:

     From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
     Subject: [LUTE] Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?
     To: JarosAA'aw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
     Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
     Date: Saturday, 20 October, 2012, 13:19

   Dear Jaroslaw
        As promised, back now in Paris, I will try to
   respond, with a few new thoughts on Mace's string remarks, along with
   the old, as when we talked last at
   [1]http://tinyurl.com/cugfph2
   Mace's remarks can be found at
   [2]http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringsmace.htm
   But the CNRS facsimile is such a bargain, every lutenist should surely
   have
   one; unless, like a lute maker I know, you are lucky enough to be given
   an original edition for your birthday ...
   %
   First, I must say that my previous message, about loaded strings being
   fairly
   immune to humidity, only concerned modern loaded strings, which are
   coated with copper in a sort of glue. If historic deep dark red
   Pistoys had been loaded through saturation, with say a solution of red
   mercury oxide (akin to a dyeing process), I don't know if they would
   have been quite so immune to water absorption. But probably oxide
   loading (rather like salting hams) might have prevented them rotting,
   or
   at least  slowed the process down (are there any chemists among you who
   could say if this is likely?).
   %
   I will reply to your messages, but breaking up my responses to lighten
   the load:
   I) Why Mace's Pistoy Basses dyed Deep dark red are quite different from
   his omnipurpose plain red

[LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Benjamin, Bruno and All
I generally use gut, but when testing synthetic top strings, I
   have been very surprised by the long wind up time of synthetic top
   strings before they come to tune. I would not like to have a synthetics
   treble break during a concert, and to have to replace it in situ. They
   take a further good few days to stabilize, much longer than a gut
   treble (Yes a gut top string is more likely to break, but I did see
   this happen to POD's top synthetic, when in concert here in Paris.
   Fortunately, it was on the very last note of an encore and the effect
   made an excellent concert all the more dramatic).
   As to gut loaded basses and Meanes, it would be quite a different
   story, as they seem to go on stretching for months, but they would also
   be less likely to break. This does mean, however, that it would be very
   difficult to just swap from synthetics to gut simply for a recording
   (as many would like to do). Having two lutes strung differently would
   be one way to go, but the playing style  has to adapt to different
   string types (particularly for bass strings). The other better solution
   would perhaps be to always use gut Basses and Meanes, but synthetic
   trebles for concert, and just to change the treble strings to gut for
   recording. However the tuning difference between the two string types
   would be there in concert, just when, presumably, you don't want it.
   Perhaps, the better ploy would be only to use synthetic trebles on the
   fist two courses in all situations, but gut elsewhere, and to carry a
   gut string replacement in case the synthetic top breaks.
   However, Benjamin's point seems to relate also to the problem of having
   to use different synthetic types to achieve good Basses, Meanes and
   Trebles: Carbons, nylons and nylgut. Apparently, these different types
   go out of tune differently, while the various gut types mentionned
   above seem to do so to a much lesser extent.
   A similar problem can be observed across different instruments, I think
   it was David v.O. who mentionned that when playing ensemble music with
   gut bow string players, the gut strung lute tends to go out of tune in
   the same way as the bowed instruments leading to quite good relative in
   tuneness between players, wheras a synthetics strung lute will fairly
   rapidly sound out of tune relative to the bowed instruments.
   However, relating to the stability of gut stringing in extreme
   situations (as some others have mentionned here), Benjamin told me that
   he was very positively surprised when he went over to gut stringing,
   having feared the worse. For example, his stringing fared quite well
   when he found himself far too close for comfort with powerful stage
   lights on a US tour, and also when in extreme high humidity on tour in
   the l'Ile de la Reunion. Once the strings were saturated, apparently
   the instrument did stabilize. Benjamin does use quite high tension, so
   I wonder whether this may partly account for his good fortune. I throw
   this out as a question.
   I would imagine that a gut top string, however, would not survive long
   in either context.
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com
   A : lute-cs. edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Vendredi 5 octobre 2012 20h33
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?
 Funny, I was thinking about the same thing today. My instruments are
 never in tune when taken out of the case for the first time everyday
 day. I'm on sinthetics (Aquila), but I believe on gut the result
   would
 be much worse, the weather in Rio is very close to Singapore...
 2012/10/5 Benjamin Narvey [1][1]luthi...@gmail.com
   Dear Luters,
   I know that much has been made about tuning issues pertaining to
   gut
   strings, but it strikes me now how little has been said about the
   same difficulty with synthetics/modern strings.
   For the first time in ages I am playing on a modern-strung theorbo
   belonging to a student of mine for rehearsals of a Fairy Queen
   while I impatiently await the arrival of my new double luth in
   some weeks (more on this giraffe anon). I am simply aghast at how
   badly carbon strings go out of tune, even though they are not
   supposed to. (Nylon/nylgut fares better.) Indeed, the (ugh)
   overwound Savarez guitar bass strings are the worst offenders of
   all, going madly out of tune sometimes: not surprising they are so
   sensitive given how metal is such a superb conducting material. The
   tuning got so sticky I actually took the instrument to a lutemaker
   since I thought it had to be peg slippage, but no. And of course,
   with all these different modern materials, the different string
   types are going out if tune differently. Superb.
   I 

[LUTE] Re: Off topic : Early guitars Superb Book!

[Anthony Hind]

Just yesterday, I saw the maginificient book, The Viennese guitar of the 19th 
century, on which Hoffer collaborated. 

Some of the guitars for sale, appear in this beautiful work:

stauffer-and-co.com/Stuco_flyer_E_web.pdf
Anthony





De : Valery SAUVAGE sauvag...@orange.fr
À : Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Envoyé le : Jeudi 4 octobre 2012 10h41
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Off topic : Early guitars

    About the list, the one on the site is not exactly the sales list, but
   near to. It can just give an idea.

   So if you are really interested, ask directly to Erik the updated sales
   list with prices, and is interested by an instrument, ask him detailled
   infos and picts...

   Many are already sold...

   V.

      Message du 03/10/12 16:06
      De : Braig, Eugene
      A : 'Lute Net'
      Copie `a :
      Objet : [LUTE] Re: Off topic : Early guitars
     
      Some titles and descriptions are truly tantalizing. However, I
     find it extremely frustrating in being so teased with no way to
     access more detailed images directly. I'm sincerely tempted to write
     Erik-Pierre regarding my vrais interet.
     
      There used to be a fine listserv for 19th-c. guitar discussion
     under the Dartmouth umbrella. It ran into some competition from a
     handful of other lists that were previously active, but seem to be
     less so now. I wonder if it's time to resurrect that list.
     
      Best,
      Eugene
     
      -Original Message-
      From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
     On Behalf Of Valery Sauvage
      Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:41 AM
      To: le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr; 'Lute Net'
      Subject: [LUTE] Off topic : Early guitars
     
      Une tres importante collection de guitares historiques est mise en
     vente par Erik Pierre Hofmann. Une majorite de guitares romantiques
     mais aussi quelques guitares baroques...
      Certaines restaurees, d'autres `a restaurer, d'autres pour la
     vitrine. Des grands noms comme Lacote, Laprevotte, Stauffer...
      A voir ici :
      http://www.fine-antique-and-classical-guitars.com/instruments.html
      Contacter Erik Pierre Hofmann si vraiment interesses.
     
      A very important collection of early guitars is for sale now. Some
     restored and playable, some for exhibition, some for needs work.
      See link above for the list.
      Details may be asked from Erik-Pierre Hofmann if truly
     interested...
     
     
      Valery
     
     
     
     
     
     
      To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
     
     
     
     
     

   --    

[LUTE] Re: Tuner

[Anthony Hind]

Oh well, I suppose I'll wait till I drop my present one before ordering this 
new version.
Thanks for letting me know.
Best
Anthony




- Mail original -
De : Sam Chapman manchap...@gmail.com
À : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
Cc : Francesco Tribioli tribi...@arcetri.astro.it; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoyé le : Vendredi 5 octobre 2012 20h17
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Tuner

   The entire case (including battery cover) of the new version is made
   from very classy brushed aluminium. I've already dropped the tuner a
   few times and it seems to be pretty bomb proof.

   best,

   Sam
   On 5 October 2012 16:48, Anthony Hind [1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote:

        Hello Francesco
                   Yes the replacement cover is exactly the same. I think
     the
        problem is both because the original cover is as you say
     inherently
        weak, and EU 9V batteries are perhaps a little larger than some
     others
        making it more difficult to close the cover.
        I hadn't realized that the new ST-122 was made of metal, but I
     have had
        three years use out of this one, and as you say, since it is
     working,
        it would seem a pity to have to buy a new one just for this cover
        question.
        I will carry on with this one, unless there are other arguments
     for
        swapping to the new one.
        Regards
        Anthony

     __
        De : Francesco Tribioli [2]tribi...@arcetri.astro.it
        A : 'Anthony Hind' [3]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
        Envoye le : Vendredi 5 octobre 2012 10h52
        Objet : RE: [LUTE] Re: Tuner
        Hello Anthony,

          The reason I am writing today, however, is because I had a
   problem
      with
          a slightly fractured battery cover on the ST-122 (this is a
   part
      which
          does get stressed, when ever the battery is changed, and I have
      had
          mine for at least a three years). I sent a message about this
   to
      Sonic
          research, and immediately Roger sent me a new cover, which I
   have
      just
          received this morning.

        I've exactly the same problem with my ST-122 and I was thinking
     to buy
        the
        122a, which is built in aluminum, just for this. My question: is
     the
        replaced cover exactly as the older one? I ask because the
     locking
        system of
        that cover is inherently weak and I think that it might break in
     a
        short
        time too. On the other hand to spend quite a bit of money to
     replace a
        perfectly working tuner just for the battery cover seems a little
     bit
        silly
        8^)
        Thank in advance for any info you can share
        Francesco
        --

   To get on or off this list see list information at

     [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --
   Sam Chapman
   Oetlingerstrasse 65
   4057 Basel
   (0041) 79 530 39 91

   --

References

   1. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   2. mailto:tribi...@arcetri.astro.it
   3. mailto:agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the whole lute

[Anthony Hind]

   Loading, to a certain extent does protect against humidity changes.
   Perhaps there may have been other treatments that we don't know about.
   Anthony
 __

   De : Sam Chapman manchap...@gmail.com
   A : alexander voka...@verizon.net
   Cc : Mark Probert probe...@gmail.com; lute-cs. edu
   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 18h03
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the
   whole lute
 Interesting. Weren't strings sometimes also treated with certain oils
   -
 almond oil I think? I hadn't realised that this could potentially
 protect against humidity changes.
 Sam
 On 6 October 2012 15:05, alexander [1][1]voka...@verizon.net wrote:
   It needs to be understood, i think, that there are clearly two
   elements in the pitch (in)stability. The string material and design
   is, of course one. But for the light and breathing, as it is, lute,
   the movement of the whole structure, most likely influences the
   tuning much, much more. So, in this case, chasing the string mole
   while disregarding the body movement monster, is not going to solve
   anything. Especially with the synthetics, - the differences
   observed
   here are the result of a different stretch - flexibility of the
   materials, rather then some radical reaction from the material to
   the temperature - humidity change. (Of course the wound strings,
   consisting of two conflicting materials are a problem of its' own).
   Just one brief look at the size of a single string and comparing it
   with the size of the whole instrument should make one to realize
   something here, right?
   I do not have an information on the early lutes in this regard, but
   early - baroque - bowed instruments as well as some later violins,
   especially those built and used in bad climes, had the inner wood
   surfaces treated with the mixture of hide glue and linseed oil.
   (There were actually some arguing this might have improved the
   instrument sound - to some tastes, that is, just off the top of my
   head - look up Frederick Castle's Violin tone peculiarities).
   Some
   other varnishes on the inner wood surface were observed as well. I
   have seen them on museum instruments. And some varnishes penetrated
   the wood deeply enough to create more wood stability. Think Cremona
   here.
   Protecting the inner wood surface of the lute would do much more to
   stabilize its' tuning in the case of rapid weather changes. But
   this
   will never happen, i would hazard to guess. Chasing a perfect
   string
   - there is the solution, of course.
   alexander r.
   On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:17:41 +1000
   Mark Probert [2][2]probe...@gmail.com wrote:
   
My $0.02, living in Sydney Australia, is that nylgut mitigates
   some
of he effect of fairly extreme weather changes.  We can have a
   thunder
storm roll in and have the temperature drop by 10+C in the space
   of as
many minutes.  Gut just gives up in those circumstances.
   
Part B of this is the effect of the weather on the wood of the
instrument.  One of my lutes is more stable than the other in the
pegbox department.  When we are in a changing time, I am forced
   not to
play this instrument for days at a time (I really don't enjoy the
   tune,
tune, tune aspect).
   
Then, isn't there the old adage of lute players spending half
   their
time tuning and the other half playing out of tune?  This is not
   a
   new
problem, though I do believe that synthetics help.
   
Kind regards
   
--
 mark.
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 Sam Chapman
 Oetlingerstrasse 65
 4057 Basel
 (0041) 79 530 39 91
 --
   References
 1. mailto:[4]voka...@verizon.net
 2. mailto:[5]probe...@gmail.com
 3. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:voka...@verizon.net
   2. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:voka...@verizon.net
   5. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?

[Anthony Hind]

   I think there may be a sensual texture versus perfect intonation
   perference that may draw some, while others shy away. However, that was
   not the issue raised by Benjamin, but relative rather than absolute
   pitch (I think).
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com
   AEUR : JarosAA'aw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   EnvoyA(c) le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 21h14
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?
   The beauty of gut sound is greatly compromised by gut's insufferable
   intonation, especially on the octaved courses.
   RT
   Sent from my iPhone
   On Oct 6, 2012, at 2:39 PM, JarosAA'aw Lipski [1]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   wrote:
Yes, varnishing helps, but doesn't totally stop a string absorbing
   humidity. It rather protects  from wear and tear.I tried them. They
   sound duller, inferior to normal gut and are not historical strings.
   This is what MP writes about them on his website:
Gut strings are varnished in order to protect the strings from wear
   and tear. The varnishing of strings is not a historical process; the
   earliest samples of varnished strings we have found only date back to
   the 1920-30s. A varnished string has a somewhat duller sound and the
   attack under the bow is slightly more difficult and liable to whistle.
When I use gut I do it for it's beautifull sound, so the idea of
   something that has neither advantages of synthetics nor gut doesn't
   really suit me.
   
All the best
   
Jaroslaw
   
   
WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Sam Chapman w dniu 6 paAA-o 2012, o
   godz. 17:34:
   
 Well, there's gut and there's varnished gut. The latter may not
   have
 been used historically, but it absorbs much less humidity from the
   air
 and sweat from the fingers, therefore staying in tune well,
   maintaining
 it's tone quality and lasting longer. That said, I've not had much
 experience using varnished gut in concerts, but am now considering
   it
 as possibly a good compromise. It's certainly closer to plain gut
   in
 terms of feel and sound than any kind of synthetic string.
   Benjamin,
 what kind of gut do you use?
   
 best,
   
 Sam
 On 6 October 2012 12:26, Jaros^3aw Lipski
   [1][2]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 wrote:
   
   No, it isn't a new problem. This is what Mattheson writes (1727)
   answering Baron in his book Ephorus, naming disadvantages of the
   lute:
   Because of the many strings, and special strings (gut-strings)
   which depend more on stable temperature and humidity than other
   instruments (to stay in tune).
   We don't know how gut strings of the past differed from modern
   ones,
   but just one thing shouldn't be disregarded - gut absorbs
   humidity
   from the air, synthetics do not. Why synthetics go out of tune?
   Because of the temperature differences and bigger elasticity.
   From my experience I can only say that after changing a Nylgut
   string it takes quite a lot of time before it can be used for a
   concert, however then it stays in tune better than gut. But
   obviously it is possible to play a concert on gut strings
   providing
   that it is not in a very humid place (or one with changing air
   conditions).
   I wouldn't mix gut with synthetics though, as each material goes
   different way. So my advice is use either synthetics or gut
   depending on your wallet's size :)
   Best regards
   Jaroslaw
   WiadomoP:ae napisana przez Mark Probert w dniu 6 pa 1/4 2012, o
   godz. 04:17:
   
   
   
Then, isn't there the old adage of lute players spending half their
time tuning and the other half playing out of tune?  This is not a
 new
problem, though I do believe that synthetics help.
   
Kind regards
   
--
mark.
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
   
[2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
 --
 Sam Chapman
 Oetlingerstrasse 65
 4057 Basel
 (0041) 79 530 39 91
   
 --
   
References
   
 1. mailto:[4]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 2. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   
   

   --

References

   1. mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   2. mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the whole lute

[Anthony Hind]

   Oh I was only speaking about modern loaded strings, that at present are
   covered in the copper loading.
   I don't know what would happen with loading by saturation of an oxide,
   although presumably that
   should also prevent rotting. Oxide loading, however, could result in
   various colours.
   But according to Charles Besnainou thick untreated gut can also be
   reddish or yellowish in hue.
   I don't think colour is necessarilly always a sign of loading. Aren't
   Georges Stoppani's strings rather red.
   I am not of course suggesting tht they are prone to rot, but nor are
   they loaded (although he may have made a few in experiments).
   Nice to hear from you again
   Best wishes
   Anthony
 __

   De : JarosAA'aw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   AEUR : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   EnvoyA(c) le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 21h45
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the
   whole lute
   Maybe, but then how will you explain a quote from Mace p.66:
   I have sometimes seen strings of a yellowish color very good; yet but
   seldom; for that color is a general sign of rottenness, or of the decay
   of the string. There are several sorts of colored strings, very good;
   but the best was always the clear blue; the red commonly rotten.
   As far as I understand red color is a most popular color of loaded
   string. If this is so, how then they could be commonly rotten?
   All best
   Jaroslaw
   WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Anthony Hind w dniu 6 paAA-o 2012, o
   godz. 21:12:
 Loading, to a certain extent does protect against humidity changes.
 Perhaps there may have been other treatments that we don't know
   about.
 Anthony
   __
   
 De : Sam Chapman [1]manchap...@gmail.com
 A : alexander [2]voka...@verizon.net
 Cc : Mark Probert [3]probe...@gmail.com; lute-cs. edu
 [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Envoye le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 18h03
 Objet : [LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of
   the
 whole lute
   Interesting. Weren't strings sometimes also treated with certain
   oils
 -
   almond oil I think? I hadn't realised that this could potentially
   protect against humidity changes.
   Sam
   On 6 October 2012 15:05, alexander [1][1][5]voka...@verizon.net
   wrote:
 It needs to be understood, i think, that there are clearly two
 elements in the pitch (in)stability. The string material and
   design
 is, of course one. But for the light and breathing, as it is,
   lute,
 the movement of the whole structure, most likely influences the
 tuning much, much more. So, in this case, chasing the string
   mole
 while disregarding the body movement monster, is not going to
   solve
 anything. Especially with the synthetics, - the differences
 observed
 here are the result of a different stretch - flexibility of the
 materials, rather then some radical reaction from the material
   to
 the temperature - humidity change. (Of course the wound strings,
 consisting of two conflicting materials are a problem of its'
   own).
 Just one brief look at the size of a single string and comparing
   it
 with the size of the whole instrument should make one to realize
 something here, right?
 I do not have an information on the early lutes in this regard,
   but
 early - baroque - bowed instruments as well as some later
   violins,
 especially those built and used in bad climes, had the inner
   wood
 surfaces treated with the mixture of hide glue and linseed oil.
 (There were actually some arguing this might have improved the
 instrument sound - to some tastes, that is, just off the top of
   my
 head - look up Frederick Castle's Violin tone peculiarities).
 Some
 other varnishes on the inner wood surface were observed as well.
   I
 have seen them on museum instruments. And some varnishes
   penetrated
 the wood deeply enough to create more wood stability. Think
   Cremona
 here.
 Protecting the inner wood surface of the lute would do much more
   to
 stabilize its' tuning in the case of rapid weather changes. But
 this
 will never happen, i would hazard to guess. Chasing a perfect
 string
 - there is the solution, of course.
 alexander r.
 On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:17:41 +1000
 Mark Probert [2][2][6]probe...@gmail.com wrote:
   
My $0.02, living in Sydney Australia, is that nylgut mitigates
 some
of he effect of fairly extreme weather changes.  We can have a
 thunder
storm roll in and have the temperature drop by 10+C in the space
 of as
many minutes.  Gut just gives up in those

[LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?

[Anthony Hind]

   I have still got some Sofracob dating from the early 70s. I haven't
   tried them again on my lute as they seem rather dry (but not at all
   rotten). I should do so, perhaps, as if they are like the so-called
   boyaux of bicyle wheels they may have become excellent and strong ...
   Seriously, Martin Shepherd has said he loved Sofracob strings, and
   Charles Besnainou told me what an interesting man the owner of that
   company was.
   I imagine that houses were very humid in the hey day of gut stringing,
   and poorly treated gut strings might go soft and mouldy. That is
   probably why it was advised to keep them in oil. These days in town
   flats perhaps they are more prone to dry out.
   There are no doubt many people such as Martin or Martyn who have more
   experience with stocking gut strings over a long time, and who are
   better able to answer this question than I am.
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de
   A : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   Cc : Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 22h08
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?
   This discussion reminded me of the 10 metres of Sofracob, fitting for
   the first course of my 13ch lute, that still were in a box in the
   cupboard. I made me a chanterelle and it is rather good, still not
   broken after 3 days, though with a strangely sticky and hard touch for
   a nylon player. The sound lacks warmth and sustain. Today then a
   rehearsal in a crowded room: had to tune that string after every piece.
   No problem, but if I imagine all the strings in gut: OMG!
   But what is your opinion now about that material: is it too old? (must
   have been ordered 8 years ago).
   What is meant by rotten?
   Best regards
   Bernd
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?

[Anthony Hind]

   You would have had a hard time back with the ancients ...
   On the other hand, some have said how they have tried sanding
   synthetics (carbons actually) to reduce their tendancy to what they
   have called a bell note. I don't doubt, however, that we all have
   personal preferences, and there is a place for choice. I was not the
   author of the title of this question : ie what is the point of
   synthetics, I was merely discussing the question of relative in
   tuneness with different string types on the same lute or across
   instruments.
   You may also have noticed that I have often reported on research on
   synthetic strings about which I happend to have heard. I would very
   much like to see a synthetic string type which works for trebles,
   meanes and basses, making wirewounds unnecessary and which have the
   homogenous sound quality that equivalent gut stringing has.
   Who knows I might even be tempted to use it myself, but in any case I
   would have the pleasure of hearing many more lutes without wirewounds
   (although I am hijacking Benjamin's thread, and side tracking the
   question, for which I apologize).
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Roman Turovsky r.turov...@gmail.com
   A : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 22h27
   Objet : Re: [LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?
   I find gut's overtone poverty sensuously insufferable as well.
   RT
   Sent from my iPhone
   On Oct 6, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Anthony Hind [1]agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   wrote:
 I think there may be a sensual texture versus perfect intonation
 perference that may draw some, while others shy away. However, that
   was
 not the issue raised by Benjamin, but relative rather than absolute
 pitch (I think).
 Regards
 Anthony
   __
   
 De : Roman Turovsky [2]r.turov...@gmail.com
 AEUR : JarosAA'aw Lipski [3]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 Cc : [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 EnvoyA(c) le : Samedi 6 octobre 2012 21h14
 Objet : [LUTE] Re: What is the point of synthetics?
 The beauty of gut sound is greatly compromised by gut's insufferable
 intonation, especially on the octaved courses.
 RT
 Sent from my iPhone
 On Oct 6, 2012, at 2:39 PM, JarosAA'aw Lipski
   [1][6]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 wrote:
Yes, varnishing helps, but doesn't totally stop a string absorbing
 humidity. It rather protects  from wear and tear.I tried them. They
 sound duller, inferior to normal gut and are not historical strings.
 This is what MP writes about them on his website:
Gut strings are varnished in order to protect the strings from wear
 and tear. The varnishing of strings is not a historical process; the
 earliest samples of varnished strings we have found only date back
   to
 the 1920-30s. A varnished string has a somewhat duller sound and the
 attack under the bow is slightly more difficult and liable to
   whistle.
When I use gut I do it for it's beautifull sound, so the idea of
 something that has neither advantages of synthetics nor gut doesn't
 really suit me.
   
All the best
   
Jaroslaw
   
   
WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Sam Chapman w dniu 6 paAA-o 2012, o
 godz. 17:34:
   
Well, there's gut and there's varnished gut. The latter may not
 have
been used historically, but it absorbs much less humidity from the
 air
and sweat from the fingers, therefore staying in tune well,
 maintaining
it's tone quality and lasting longer. That said, I've not had much
experience using varnished gut in concerts, but am now considering
 it
as possibly a good compromise. It's certainly closer to plain gut
 in
terms of feel and sound than any kind of synthetic string.
 Benjamin,
what kind of gut do you use?
   
best,
   
Sam
On 6 October 2012 12:26, Jaros^3aw Lipski
 [1][2][7]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
wrote:
   
 No, it isn't a new problem. This is what Mattheson writes (1727)
 answering Baron in his book Ephorus, naming disadvantages of the
 lute:
 Because of the many strings, and special strings (gut-strings)
 which depend more on stable temperature and humidity than other
 instruments (to stay in tune).
 We don't know how gut strings of the past differed from modern
 ones,
 but just one thing shouldn't be disregarded - gut absorbs
 humidity
 from the air, synthetics do not. Why synthetics go out of tune?
 Because of the temperature differences and bigger elasticity.
 From my experience I can only say that after changing a Nylgut
 string it takes quite a lot of time before it can be used for a
 concert, however then it stays in tune better than gut

[LUTE] Re: Tuner

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Sam and All
  This is a belated message on the topic of this tuner. I agree
   entirely with Sam's message below. The two tuners, the Sonic Research
   and the Korg orchestra are sort of complementary. I have both, but for
   keeping the lute in tune, the turbo tuner is much much more intuitive
   and accurate. Once you get used to the flashing lights, which took me,
   perhaps a day, tuning becomes almost a pleasure, even without the
   microphone attachment, in most contexts. It is particularly good for
   low bass loaded strings, which are not so easilly picked up by the
   Korg. I have also been able to make presets for my renaissance and
   baroque lutes which is not possible with the Korg (even though it does
   have a number of preset tunings).
   Therefore, when I thought I had lost my SR tuner a year or so ago, I
   felt withdrawal symptoms (in spite of having the Korg backup).
   Fortunately I found it after a couple of months in the lining of one of
   my too many brief cases. The SR is black, as was the interior of my
   brief case, and in this particular situation, the Korg being silver, it
   might have been seen more easilly, but this is not usually a quality
   that we look for in tuners.
   As Sam says, the Korg does produce sound, however, and I have found
   this a little more intuitive when quickly tuning up a new string;
   although there is a manual position on the Sonic Frontier, which works
   fairly well, it does lacks the sound option.
   I have the original ST-122, and wonder how the ST-122a differs from
   this? Is it possible to preset the overall pitch choice along with the
   tuning presets. The pitch has to be set independently to the tunings
   with the ST-122 (this is not a real problem, but does take a little
   more time).
   The reason I am writing today, however, is because I had a problem with
   a slightly fractured battery cover on the ST-122 (this is a part which
   does get stressed, when ever the battery is changed, and I have had
   mine for at least a three years). I sent a message about this to Sonic
   research, and immediately Roger sent me a new cover, which I have just
   received this morning.
   Others have also mentionned the excellent service from SR.
   I can also  highly recommend the SR for lute players.
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Sam Chapman manchap...@gmail.com
   A : Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
   Cc : R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de; William Brohinsky
   tiorbin...@gmail.com; List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Mardi 4 septembre 2012 13h25
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Tuner
 Yes, I also got the ST-122a some time ago. It's an extremely
 well-designed and robust piece of kit and in terms of accuracy and
 functionality I don't think you can beat it for the price. It seems
   to
 be virtually the only thing Sonic Research produces, and they clearly
 pour a huge amount of effort into making it as good as it can be -
 quite a different story from the plastic Korg tuners that most people
 seem to use. By programming the tuning of my theorbo and setting the
 tuner to manual (so that Theorbo Man appears on the display!) I've
 been able to use it in orchestras even without a contact microphone.
 I used to have a TLA strobe tuner but had to sell it since, while it
 was great for keyboard instruments, it couldn't really pick up the
 sound of the lute properly. The TurboTuner is the opposite: perfect
   for
 lutes, but picks up the sound of harpsichords less well (no problem
 with organs though). The only other criticisms I have is that it
   can't
 produce sound and it can't do piano curves, though I have a cheap
   tuner
 that can do the former and I rarely need the latter. Also, you have
   to
 get used to people asking you what the flashing lights are all
   about...
 Buy one!
 Sam
 On 3 September 2012 22:50, Edward Mast [1][1]nedma...@aol.com
   wrote:
   When I went to order mine a few moths ago, the ST-122 was indeed
   out
   of stock and out of production.  But it has been replaced by the
   ST-122a, a very similar but slightly upgraded version.  I'm very
   happy with it also.
 On Sep 3, 2012, at 1:14 PM, R. Mattes wrote:
  On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 09:22:11 -0400, William Brohinsky wrote
  I have one. I have had it for a few years. For piano tuning, it is
  not a choice.
 
  For just about everything else, it is wonderful.
 
 
  Please correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't this tuner out of stock
  since _years_?
 
  --
  R. Mattes -
  Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg
  [2][2]r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
 
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [3][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 Sam Chapman
 Oetlingerstrasse 65
 4057 Basel

[LUTE] Re: Tuner

[Anthony Hind]

   Hello Francesco
  Yes the replacement cover is exactly the same. I think the
   problem is both because the original cover is as you say inherently
   weak, and EU 9V batteries are perhaps a little larger than some others
   making it more difficult to close the cover.
   I hadn't realized that the new ST-122 was made of metal, but I have had
   three years use out of this one, and as you say, since it is working,
   it would seem a pity to have to buy a new one just for this cover
   question.
   I will carry on with this one, unless there are other arguments for
   swapping to the new one.
   Regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Francesco Tribioli tribi...@arcetri.astro.it
   A : 'Anthony Hind' agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   Envoye le : Vendredi 5 octobre 2012 10h52
   Objet : RE: [LUTE] Re: Tuner
   Hello Anthony,
   The reason I am writing today, however, is because I had a problem
   with
   a slightly fractured battery cover on the ST-122 (this is a part
   which
   does get stressed, when ever the battery is changed, and I have
   had
   mine for at least a three years). I sent a message about this to
   Sonic
   research, and immediately Roger sent me a new cover, which I have
   just
   received this morning.
   I've exactly the same problem with my ST-122 and I was thinking to buy
   the
   122a, which is built in aluminum, just for this. My question: is the
   replaced cover exactly as the older one? I ask because the locking
   system of
   that cover is inherently weak and I think that it might break in a
   short
   time too. On the other hand to spend quite a bit of money to replace a
   perfectly working tuner just for the battery cover seems a little bit
   silly
   8^)
   Thank in advance for any info you can share
   Francesco

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Change of address

[Anthony Hind]

   Welcome to France, Martin, I hope we will now see (and perhaps hear)
   you more often at the SFL meetings.
   Best wishes
   Anthony
 __

   De : Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   A : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Mardi 18 septembre 2012 10h35
   Objet : [LUTE] Change of address
   Hi All,
   Just to let you know that we have (finally) moved to France - the south
   of Burgundy, very close to Charolles.  My address is simple:
   Martin Shepherd
   Luthier/luthiste
   Montot
   71120 Vaudebarrier
   France
   My email address and website will remain the same, though in due course
   there will be a French language version of the site as well.
   Best wishes,
   Martin
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Re-tuning the diapason of a 7c

[Anthony Hind]

That said, I've seen some lovely 7c instruments and they sound better 
for resisting the extra course. Ed Martin's, for example, as well as 
Jacob Herringman's 7c Gerle. The latter is interesting in that it 
retains the earlier parabolic neck which, I think, would not support 8 
courses. If that is your route you're well set up to go to the 6c. Sean

    Very true of 7c Gerle lutes, Sean. I have the same Gerle model by Martin 
Haycock as that used by Jacob Herringman on his Sienna recording, and it is 
such a clear open sounding instrument (although the neck is not quite as 
parabolic as many 6c lutes, and I know of one person who has this lute in a 10c 
version).

I felt this 7c Gerle was an excellent compromise for Italian and English 6 and 
7c music (and by keeping 7c in D, further opening its repertoire, as explained 
by others for most 9c music); although by the same reasoning, if it was only 6c 
music that I had wanted to play, there is no doubt that a 6c instrument would 
also sound better for resisting the extra course. 

I also agree with those who prefer the 11c Baroque lute over a 13c (even rider) 
lute; however, it is probably true that when extra basses are in gut (pure, 
loaded or gimped), the lack of clarity, brought about by the additional basses, 
is minimised.

 I have had my Gerle with pure gut basses, and loaded basses, and I prefer 
the depth of the sound with loaded basses, but this is perhaps a question of 
personal taste, and also of the music I have tended to play on it (the thinner 
7c bass given by a loaded or gimped bass is probably easier to stop to obtain 
F, than a thicker pure gut bass).

However, perhaps this 7c compromise did not work quite as well as I had hoped 
for 6c music, as I have never actually played the Sienna lute book repertoire 
on it for which I originally bought the intrument (and which I love). I do 
think for this, the pure gut, I originally had on the instrument, might have 
been better than the loaded basses I have on it at present, but which seem to 
work so well for Holbourne, et al.

Regards
Anthony






De : Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com
À : lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Envoyé le : Mercredi 2 mai 2012 19h52
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Re-tuning the diapason of a 7c


  If you haven't yet ordered a lute, I would consider an 8 course, which
  in my opinion is more versatile.A  It even allows you to cheat and play
  10 course music...

Very true, Bruno, I loved exploring the Vallet and Ballard books for years on 
my 8c, turning singers on to Airs de cours and knowing that nearly all the 
English was, at least, doable w/out retuning something.

That said, I've seen some lovely 7c instruments and they sound better for 
resisting the extra course. Ed Martin's, for example, as well as Jacob 
Herringman's 7c Gerle. The latter is interesting in that it retains the earlier 
parabolic neck which, I think, would not support 8 courses. If that is your 
route you're well set up to go to the 6c.

Ed, I believe you have a gut bass w/ a metal filament on the 7th course on that 
instrument. Could you weigh in on how it does re: Joshua's question? I'm curious
myself.

Dalza expected lutes to accept a one-step scordatura and in one 'suite' on the 
5th course also. Could the extra half step really be too much?

But truthfully, Joshua, a 7c is a fine place to start and I applaud your 
resolution. You'll work out the D/F situation one way or another.

Sean





A

  A

  Bruno

  On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Braig, Eugene [1]brai...@osu.edu
  wrote:

    It's beginning to sound like an 8-course might actually better suit
    your needs. A While short lived in period, they seem pretty
    ubiquitous today.
    Best,
    Eugene

  -Original Message-
  From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Burkholder
  Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 11:40 AM
  To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Re-tuning the diapason of a 7c
  Dear lute-listers,
  A question from a beginner:
  First to introduce myself, my name is Joshua and I've been playing the
  lute for several months now; I have been on the list for a couple weeks
  and am really enjoying following your discussions. I have a rental
  7-course and I am now in the process of taking the plunge and buying a
  lute of my own. After much reading, pondering and agonizing over the
  best number of courses
to start with, I've come to the conclusion that
  a 7-course best suits my needs. So onto to my question:
  I know that some people re-tune the 7th course from D to F as needed,
  but on my rental lute this seems quite impossible. The diapason is
  stung to F and if I drop it down to D it becomes far too wobbly and
  flabby. From this I assume that if I were to restring it to D, which
  I'd prefer on the whole, it would likewise be impossible to raise it to
  F. Currently the lute is strung with Pyramid strings so the basses are
  metal 

[LUTE] CD Austria 1676

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Lutenists

Those interested can purchase Miguel Yisrael's new CD of Baroque lute music, 
Austria 1676, here : 
http://www.miguelyisrael.com/index.php/works/discography

For any questions please contact Miguel
Miguel Yisrael miguelyisr...@me.com







To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: CD Viability was Miking a lute/theorbo

[Anthony Hind]

   CDs are dead and 48KHz sounds better.
   This presumably means downloading to hard disk?
   Is it not so that SACD (which was excellent), and DVDA
   (a little less good) are now more or less dead on disks?
   Unfortunately, it seems to be MP3, which is winning this war,
   which seems a great pity. I hope I am wrong, David?
   Anthony
 __

   De : t...@heartistrymusic.com t...@heartistrymusic.com
   A : lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Envoye le : Dimanche 15 avril 2012 18h05
   Objet : [LUTE] CD Viability was Miking a lute/theorbo
   CDs are dead and 48KHz sounds better.
 Thanks for these tips on recording!
   I have been asking colleagues and random friends this question for
   years:
   How long do YOU think it will be before CDs go the way of the
   Cassette?
 I did a recording with my Celtic band, Way Up North in 1994 - 5.
   At the
   time cassettes were still holding their sales power against CDs at
   about 50%.
   The trend was obvious, though.  We had an equal number of Cassettes and
   CDs printed.  I still have Cassettes left over.  (Anybody want one? -
   FREE!)
 Similarly, my newest acoustic folk trio, Take 3, has completed a
   recording
   project, and one of our members insisted on getting 1000 CDs printed.
   I have
   a feeling that I may still have some of these in a closet 20 years from
   now ...
   I wanted to go with digital download cards and print-on-demand CDs,
   but
   agreed to printing 1000 CDs to keep the peace.
 The real death-knell for cassettes came when automobile makers
   stopped
   putting cassette players in vehicles.
 Automaker Ford has said that they will stop putting CD players in
   their cars:
   [1]http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/car-cd-players-obsolete/
   ( Or, from Television Station CBS 2 in Los Angeles ) -
   Ford will soon stop installing CD players in its new vehicles.  The
   automaker
   is scrapping CD players in its new vehicle models and opting to instead
   install
   USB sockets for iPods and other digital music players.  Ford says all
   of its new
   cars will have a computer hub, which will allow drivers to access their
   music
   libraries from the Internet.
 So, as recording artists trying to sell recorded music, where do we
   go from here?
   How long will MP3 last?  Will FLAC become the format of choice?  What
   do YOU
   think will be the next long-term viable media format for music sales?
   Or is there one?
 I'll look forward to all of your opinions.
   Tom Draughon
   [2]http://www.heartistrymusic.com/artists/tom.html
   From:  David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   The dynamic range of digital exceeds the background noise in your
   room. For example, if your DR is 110 dB, and your background is 45
   dB, you have only 65 dB range. A typical lute has DR of maybe 40
   dB. Recording in 24 bits, each bit is worth 6dB. So when
   recording, set your levels high, but not at the very highest,
   becasue your end result will be 16 bit or less. USe that extra
   resolution to downsample and normalize at exactly the time of
   output for the best result. Use 48 kH, not 44.1: CDs are dead and
   48 sounds better. Consider AAC 24 bit/48kHz for output--best kept
   secret in audio. Most people not only throw away the bits, they
   use
   a cheapo encoder that chops off all the high frequencies, even
   though free or inexpensive ones are available and need only to be
   set up once. dt
   
   _
 _
   
   From: Ed Durbrow [4]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   To: Anthony Hind [5]agno3ph...@yahoo.com; LuteNet list
   [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 3:48:35 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Miking a lute/theorbo
   On Apr 11, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Anthony Hind wrote:
Ed
 Do I understand that you record in mono? I have often found
   that mono recordings are more relaxing than stereo, and analog
   more
   relaxing than digital; so mono analog is sometimes the easiest to
   listen to. It is as though the brain has lesswork to do recreating
   the sound image (trying to make the two sound images coincide).
   Although you no longer have indications of instrument position.
   No,
   I record in stereo if it is solo. Sometimes I record the lute in
   mono if there is a voice or other instrument because I have just
   one very expensive Neumann mic and I like to use it on the lute if
   I can. What I was saying is that if you record in a coincident
   pattern, there will be NO problems with phasing in mono playback.
   I
   don't know who listens in mono anymore, but it could happen. My
   main reason for using a coincident pattern though is that I can
   get

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Benjamin Narvey YouTube

[Anthony Hind]

   Of course I failed to say that it was at the recent SFL meeting
   Anthony
 __

   De : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
   A : baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Mercredi 4 avril 2012 15h42
   Objet : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Benjamin Narvey YouTube
 Dear Lutenists
 Here is a link to a recording made by the SFL of Benjamin
 Narvey playing Weiss and de Visee on a 70cm Warwick 13c rider Warwick
 Frei with all gut stringing : loaded Venice basses and Nick Baldock
 octaves, Meanes (except for 5c which are Venice), and Trebles.
 Obviously the YouTube recording can't do justice to Benjamin's sound,
 but it gives an idea.
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHiP6bf6lE
 Regards
 Anthony
 --
   References
 Visible links
 Hidden links:
 1. [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHiP6bf6lE
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHiP6bf6lE
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHiP6bf6lE
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Benjamin Narvey YouTubeSFL

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Lutenists
   Here is a link to a recording made by the SFL, at the recent
   SFL meeting, of Benjamin Narvey playing Weiss and de Visee on a 70cm
   Warwick 13c rider Warwick Frei with all gut stringing : loaded Venice
   basses and Nick Baldock octaves, Meanes (except for 5c which are
   Venice), and Trebles.
   Obviously the YouTube recording can't do justice to Benjamin's sound,
   but it gives an idea.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imHiP6bf6lE
   Regards
   Anthony


   Trustworthiness:
   Vendor reliability:
   Privacy:
   Child safety:

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pre-judgement (or wishful thinking) was Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Martyn
    My impression is that in the more usual case, freak historical lutes  
and theorbos are frequently adopted to accomodate the modern playing context: 
e.g. using higher pitches than historic for the type of instrument if strung in 
gut (typically for tuning to an orchestra or to a singer), a shorter 
instruments than historic (particularly for theorbos), again only possible with 
synthetic stringing; and in both cases to make life  easier for the lutenist 
(and in the extreme case single strings on a liuto forte). At least Anthony 
Bailes with this 76cm lute (and gut stringing), can't be accused of having made 
his playing easier.

About the RH position close to the bridge, this (according to the Lute new's 
report on his talk), is indeed one of the reasons for AB choosing an old lute. 
Although he is the only one to suggest this, he did say that, in his 
experience, such lutes had good sustain but were also somewhat veiled in sound 
which automatically called for a position near the bridge; the popularity of 
such lutes, he thought, might have contributed to this change to RH position 
near the bridge. (I quote, here, from memory, as this morning, I can't find my 
copy of the Lute News in question).

However, as I said above, I am neither a lute maker nor a musicologist, 
although I do feel fairly sure that no one (including AB) would have ordered a 
76cm from a lute maker in order to play this music; the string length, I 
therefore have to conclude, as you do, is not the French Baroque ideal. 
Although AB is a model for many, I doubt whether his example will be followed; 
but you have given far more thought to this issue than I have, so I will have 
to leave you the last word on this historical question, and bow to your 
judgement.

I would nevertheless, just like to add that I so wish it was sufficient to have 
a suitable lute, good strings, and correct RH position to be able to interpret 
French Baroque lute music, but as Mathias rightly says, French music is too 
tricky, although in my case I feel it worth a try.
Regards
Anthony


De : Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
À : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com 
Cc : baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Envoyé le : Mardi 20 mars 2012 15h06
Objet : Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pre-judgement (or wishful thinking) was Re: Ne 
Anthony Bailes CD


Dear Anthony,

Thank you for this.  In essence all I'm suggesting is that we should look at 
the evidence of what size and sort (eg barring) of instrument was used for a 
particular repertoire and then see what sounds result, rather than starting 
from the sort of sound we personally like and then choosing the instrument 
which makes this sound.  Clearly the first has the possibility of getting 
somewhere near what the original composers might have expected and their 
audiences heard; but the second merely reflects our own 
prejudices/pre-delictions/wishful-thinking of the sort of sound we, as 
individuals, would like to hear.  The matter is particularly pointed if the 
specification of the instrument we come up with for performing a particular 
repertoire was unknown to players at the time. This doesn't just apply to 
Anthony Bailes of course but to any player with pretensions to perform works in 
a manner reasonably close to what the original composer might have expected. 

Regarding putting 'sustain' as the feature most to be sought in this repertoire 
is, of course, simply a prejudice (prejudgement) - it might be any feature (eg 
softness, loudness, ability to articulate, lack of sustain etc).  As said, 
we ought to try and secure an instrument as close as possible to what the 
actual historic evidence indicates and base our experiments on this.  I also 
suggest, if we wish to be rigorous about this search, we should eschew other 
anachronistic techniques - such as plucking away from the bridge and up to the 
rose which has at least as big an influence on the tone produced as almost any 
other factor. Your links (email 16 March) to pictures comparing Mouton and a 
modern 11 course player is particular telling: not only in the right hand 
position and its plucking posture but also how the instrument is held - low 
down cradled in the lap, not high up resting on the right thigh as Mouton (and 
other contemporary depictions).

Finally, I'm all for experiment if it is presented as such: it's when this 
might be seem to be an accurate reflection of what the Old Ones actually did 
that I worry.

regards

Martyn




--- On Tue, 20/3/12, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pre-judgement (or wishful thinking) was Re: Ne 
Anthony Bailes CD
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Tuesday, 20 March, 2012, 12:52


Dear Martyn
    I must appologize for not having seen your message; I actually

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Anthony Hind]

 Perhaps, Matthias, we can at least agree that later German baroque 
lutenists,  were  indebted to the French lutenist's experimentation with 
accords nouveaux, lute types, and le style luthé which so influenced even the 
French harpsichordists. Their in depth research of the lute's sonorities makes 
their pieces studies in sound texture (as much as in melodic structure), 
tightly associated with this instrument, and  difficult to transpose. Those who 
are less sensitive to texture may indeed prefer the more overtly organised 
melodic  structure of a Weiss, or a de Visée. 

However, there is a range in French music, from the almost speaking style (as 
Arto says of Dufaut), to a more Lullian melodic style (spiked with 
dissonance): from the disolving harmonic patterns of Mouton, through Gallot 
(announcing the harmonic vocabulary of de Visée), to de Visée himself, with his 
independently structured bass lines underpinning a strongly articulated melodic 
superstructure. For some, Weiss might be the pinnacle of this progression; yet 
both Weiss, and de Visée, proclaim their debt and admiration for Gallot: de 
Visée quotes Psychée in his tombeaux du Vieux Gallot, while  Weiss' reworks 
L'Amant Malheureux, as a resounding eulogy. 

As I said in a recent SFL luth journal, in a concert in Paris, Benjamin Narvey 
underlined this evolution,  and while his strong projection and singing style 
undoubtedly favoured the cantabile of these two great masters*, de Visée and 
Weiss, his performance of the more elusive Prelude of Mouton (through his 
masterful phrasing, ornamentation and rhythm), achieved a fluidity approaching 
the gestures of a baroque dancer. Nothing seemed static, even silences 
suggested movement: musical flights abruptly suspended, but continued in the 
mind of the listener. Dissolving harmonic patterns melted into each other, the 
lute constantly ringing as new notes were struck, the resonance of the lute 
itself seems the primary focus of the composition.

Each lutenist has their own sensitivity and history which makes one composer 
work better for them than another. I understand you fascination,  Mathias, with 
pure melodic structure, to which I am not immune; but it is the eloquent 
gesture, elegance, fluidity and poise of French Baroque to which I feel most 
drawn.

However, you are  quite right that with the loss of the musical tradition this 
elusive music has become almost too difficult to interpret, even for the 
simplest pieces, so rather than attempting Gallot's Psyché, I am at present 
struggling with de Visée's slightly more melodically approachable  Tombeau du 
Vieux Gallot inspired by this piece. 
Unfortunately, even for this, it is not sufficient to have a historically 
suitable lute and excellent stringing with good clarity and sustain, to succeed.
Regards 

Anthony
*PS This is exactly the repertoire (Weiss and de Visée)that Benjamin will be 
performing in Paris this coming Sunday.



- Mail original -
De : Mathias Rösel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
À : baroque-lute mailing-list baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc : 
Envoyé le : Dimanche 18 mars 2012 0h07
Objet : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

Dear Arto,

Thank you for your balanced views! I agree in general that there's no better
or worse in matters of taste. I hasten to add, though, that taste is a
matter of education, a matter of discerning the ways. When I look back, I
must admit that some things went wrong in the very beginning of my lute
schooling. Wrong is a strong word, I know, but that's what it looks like
from my perspective of today.

Giesbert's method does not contain French baroque music, offering but late
German baroque. Satoh's method has one piece by Gallot, but via the famous
arrangement by Weiss! The method by Michel Serdoura / Yisrael has been the
best so far IMO in that it offers very well written articles by several
authors and a wide range of music. That is the desirable width of mind that
Dagobert Bruger had already reached in 1928.

No mention, though, of other types of the instrument. The baroque lute is a
number of different lutes, rather, comprising 10c through 13c lutes,
including different types of theorboed and non-theorboed lutes, not to speak
of different tunings.

You mentioned traits like uneven and unpredictable passages, varying the
lengths of phrases, unexpected harmonies in French baroque lute music. I
share these impressions (don't particularly like them, though), but I am
suspicious that they have been provoked by circulating recordings which
helped to create this kind of common approach towards this music. I
appreciate more the ways these composers e.g. deal with their melodies.

Thank you anyway for Monsieur Dufaut's courante!

Mathias



 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
 Auftrag von Arto Wikla
 Gesendet: Samstag, 17. März 2012 19:15
 An: Anthony Hind
 Cc: Mathias Rösel; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Ed and All,
 Yesterday evening I met someone who had played Jakob Lindberg's
   Rauwolf, and he told me that it had indeed both wonderful clarity and
   sustain (as Jakob says), so that you can hear each voice, and indeed
   each course, quite separately.
   This could be the sort of quality that the French musicians were
   searching out for their new tunings (similar to what Anthony Bailes was
   hoping for with the Wengerer), and perhaps close to the quality Dan
   Larson achieved when replacing the damaged top on your previous 11c
   67cm Frei with a very hard Adirondack top. You said, The top wood is
   gorgeous, and the sound is very complex.  As many have described
   Adirondack for tops, the treble is very clear, and very strong.  I have
   never heard a new lute with such a singing treble, which makes for a
   very wonderful sound.
   http://www.mail-archive.com/baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg01536.html
   It is entirely possible that it is the hardness of the tables of the
   old lutes (similar to your Adirondack) which gives this singing
   quality.
   %
   So now, I wonder whether the Sitke Spruce on your new 11c lute is not
   even harder, and with even more of this quality?
   This must be a very interesting project  for Dan Larson, enabling both
   of you to hear the varied effects of Italian spruce (the original
   lute), Adirondack on the restoration, and now a thin piece of
   bear-claw Sitka Spruce, from Sitka, Alaska. on your new lute.
   That is as close as one can get to neutralizing other parameters so as
   to make an almost scientific comparison of the tables. Are you able to
   make judgement about this, and possibly even to record some comparison
   tracks?
   %
   Other ways of achieving hard tops might be the use of very old timber
   submerged in the great lakes.
   http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/buying_submerged_lumber
   A specialist of biochemistry at Texas, Professor Nagyvary says that
   when wood is submerged, bacteria eat away at hemicellulose and
   starchy matter in the wood, creating wood ideal for instrument
   makers.  He also provoked this hardening effect by applying Borax
   salts to table-wood; and Martyn has mentioned research application of
   oxidyzed linseed oil on tables, all with very similar results.
   %
   It may be a pity that more instruments do not appear benefitting from
   this sort of research; indeed, Stephen Gottlieb has told me that modern
   European spruce is now softer, and needs to be cut thicker (so we have
   perhaps lost something from a historical performance point of view).
   Nevertheless, my 11c lute with bear claw spruce (I don't know of what
   origin), but strung with loaded strings, did have this singing quality,
   even before, I attempted to improve on the stringing. I believe that
   even with our quite different methods and sensitivities many of us may
   be striving for similar qualities.
   %
   On the basses, I use 2.9 Kg of tension on the fundamentals _and_ the
   octaves.
  I find your string tensions very interesting. I was expecting
   you to have adopted quite low tensions to achieve thinnish Pistoy
   basses (similar to those of T. Satoh), but I see you are fairly close
   to my overall tensions (2K7 on basses and about 3K on octaves), except
   that I have slightly less bass tension. Even with loaded strings, I do
   prefer thinnish basses. However, this is just a personal preference;
   Benjamin N. has thicker basses, and he also achieves a marvellous
   singing quality.
   Fortunately, there are various ways of achieving a similar, but
   hopefully slightly different, musical result, catering for personal
   choices and taste.
   Best regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
   AEUR : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com; Edward Martin
   e...@gamutstrings.com
   Cc : baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   EnvoyA(c) le : Samedi 17 mars 2012 22h24
   Objet : Re : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
   Dear Anthony and all,
   You are correct, in that the table on my lute is ultra hard, being a
   thin piece of bear-claw Sitka Spruce, from Sitka, Alaska.  That
   material is seldom used in lutes, because it is so hard and dense,
   making lute rose carving very difficult.  But, the results are
   brilliant.  I have another lute, a 13 course Burkholtzer, and I have
   Pistoys also down to the 10th course, and it is also clear.  In my
   opinion, I like it better than gimped or loaded gut - that is my
   preference.
   For tension, I use a medium tension throughout.  On the basses, I use
   2.9 Kg of tension on the fundamentals _and_ the octaves.  The important
   point is that one must also use an octave at least as high in tension
   than the fundamental.  One interesting thing is the way the mathematics
   work out.  The octave always turns out always

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Ed and All
   Many of us seemed to have enjoyed and been influenced by that
   Reflexe recording, and indeed the wonderful Reflexe and Astree LPs in
   the 70s were how I was introduced to the pioneers; until I had the
   chance of actually hearing some of them, Hoppy, and POD, Jakob
   Lindberg, but unfortunately never Anthony Bailes.
   %
I would gladly try those geared pegs, but I would also be loth
   to remove Stephen Gottlieb's very elegant sculpted ones, but perhaps
   the originals could be grafted on to the geared ones?
   When I remember to make the effort, Wolfgang Fruh's peg-turner does go
   someway to gearing the peg turn.
   I bought it for the occasion when tend pegs stick, but actually it
   works best on pegs that don't stick. It seems to
   make them more precise. Without the turner, the string jumps above and
   then below the desired tuning point,
   with the tuner it seems to go much more smoothly. Of course, it does
   not have the accuracy of your marvellous geared pegs.
   How wonderful to be the neighbour of an expert lute and string maker!
   %
   Perhaps your present success with pure gut Pistoys also relates to the
   ultra hard table that Dan managed to make for your lute. I understand
   tables can harden with the years, so perhaps your lute has some of the
   sustain of an old lute, that helps your lute's response to your
   stringing?
   Of course, with AB's 76cm string length it wouldn't be so surprising if
   pure gut Pistoys did work well on the Wengerer lute, but if you manage
   a free sounding bass, without a hint of tubbiness, it will be quite an
   achievement for a 67cm lute in all Pistoy basses!
   %
   I had wanted to add a link to T. Satoh playing the Greiff, to compare
   with low tension stringing of an old lute. I tried to use the old links
   I have on my computer, but they all failed. I then tried to go on the
   Channel Island Classic site, and Firefox signalled warnings that the
   site had a very poor reputation. I couldn't understand how that could
   be, but fearing it might be a scam site. I stopped my attempts, which
   is a pity, as it would be interesting to compare.
   %
   You haven't said what tension you have on your basses, and your
   octaves, but would you classify it as light, medium or heavy?
   regards
   Anthony
 __

   De : Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
   A : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com;
   baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Samedi 17 mars 2012 1h08
   Objet : Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
   Dear Anthony and all,
   I also very much enjoy that old recording of AB on EMI Reflexe.  A
   great, old recording.
   Your statement that (although, I imagine that with his 76cm lute pure
   gut basses should also work well) is in complete agreement with my
   recent experimentation.
   As you know, I have been doing some experimentation on my French
   lute, which is now one year old.  It is 67.5 cm 11-course Frei.
   Recently, I put on plain gut, down to the 10th course (actually,
   Pistoys on the 5th, and Pistoy fundamentals on 6-10)  The 11th course
   still has a loaded gut  fundamental from Mimmo.  That is the only metal
   I have on this lute, and I want to say that I am quite happy with the
   sound of the pure (Pistoy) gut, i.e., without metal).  In fact, I
   prefer it to loaded gut.  I just have not gotten around to trying the
   11th fundamental in pure gut, but when I do, I think it will work just
   fine.  String makers have done a terrific job in research and
   production of incorporating of metal into gut, but for my 11-course
   lute with no bass extension, is very nice indeed. using pure gut.  They
   do not sound tubby at all.
   Unfortunately, I have not recorded this instrument yet, but will, using
   this stringing configuration.  In my opinion, at least when discussing
   French baroque lute music, this is certainly worth trying.
   Another factor I have just made a huge modification on the
   11-course lute.  I have just installed planetary gears, instead of
   pegs.  I know  some people disapprove of this, but for many reasons, I
   am very, very happy with the results.  They are expensive - that is a
   drawback.  The thing is, friction pegs can be problematic, and even the
   best ones, perfectly fitted, do slip a little but.  These pegs look
   _exactly_ like an ebony lute peg, but then _never_ slip or stick.  They
   are geared to 25% of the turning of a friction peg;  in other words,
   one must turn 4 times the distance one would turn using a friction
   peg.  This makes tuning much, much more accurate, and it does not
   stick, and the action is very fluid.  The weight is identical to a lute
   peg, so no weight is added.  With these gears, it is actually, a joy to
   tune!
   Sometimes with friction pegs, I may be more hesitant to make

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear Mathias
   Thanks for your explanations, yes I do understand your
   feelings. I have a number of friends here in Paris, who prefer to play
   Weiss (or similar) rather than French music, more or less for the
   reasons you state.
   Only the bare-bones seem to be encoded in the tablature, and a great
   depth of understanding is needed to interpret the simplest of pieces.
   Economy of composition and melodic ambiguity, seems almost
   contradictory; French classic literature shows similar economy, but
   seeks out le mot juste (whereas according to a recent BBC programme,
   English authors delight in ambiguity).
   I do delight in melodic ambiguity, but am far from mastering the art of
   its interpretation or grasping the grammar of its rhetoric.
   My first teacher, Terrence Waterhouse, before I temporarily retired
   from lute playing, was a student of Michael Schaeffer, and I heard much
   about his theoretical in-put, through him. At that time I was only
   learning renaissance lute, and there was unfortunately a long break
   before I returned to lute playing and the baroque lute.
   I am in contact with an expert in the interpretation of the French
   lute, and always amazed at how he makes a piece sing, or talk; in
   comparison my playing is completely flat, but I strive on. I love his
   playing of Weiss, but find it almost melodically indulgent (if you know
   what I mean), I must be rather a melodic puritan, I fear.
   Best wishes
   Anthony
 __

   De : Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   A : baroque-lute mailing-list baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Envoye le : Samedi 17 mars 2012 10h56
   Objet : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
   Dear Anthony,
   I do not blame you, and I hope you didn't offense in what I wrote. As
   for
   the Pieces de luth LP, I do regret that it was my first encounter
   with
   French baroque lute music. When I first listened, I was like, wow, they
   had
   jazz in the 17th century. It's so sophisticated, I couldn't tell triple
   time
   from even time by listening, I was amazed by the glittering sound,
   amazed by
   unexpected progress of harmonies, amazed by unidentifiable rhythmical
   structures.
   From then on, my idea of that music was, I kinda like it, but this is
   so
   artificial, I will never understand how it works. This music was
   completely
   veiled before my ears because of many rubatos, arpeggios instead of
   broken
   lines, and so on. Had I first listened to, say, Michael Schaeffer,
   things
   would have been different for me (but if and would are the fool's last
   words). That first contact coined my idea of what French baroque lute
   music
   was.
   And that's why I kept my hands off from it for a long time. Like many
   others, I took my way through Giesbert's method and later through
   Toyohiko
   Satoh's. To me, the greatest composers who wrote for the baroque lute,
   were
   Bach and Weiss, and none other compared to them. I knew there was some
   French music, but it was much too tricky and way not rewarding enough
   as to
   be worth a try. Sorry for oversimplification, but it comes close.
   He does mention his stringing in all the booklets relating to the
   Wengerer lute (his last two CDs), but as I made clear, he says
   nothing
   about th stringing of the 12c lute (a pity). I am sorry that you
   didn't
   remember it.
   That's right, he doesn't say a word about his stringing in the booklet
   of
   Old Gaultier's Nightingale.
   Best,
   Mathias
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Anthony Hind]

   Dear All
   Anthony Bailes LP recording of  'Pieces de luth'; EMI REFLEXE;
   IC 06330938, was my introduction to French baroque lute music.
   After that I was hooked.
   I have enjoyed his recent CDs (although I had not yet heard this, his
   most recent one), but regret that the recordings (in particular  Old
   Gautiers Nightinghall) do seem to have become a little more
   reverberant, which may take away somewhat from his recent excellent
   string choices on the Wengerer: Nick Baldock trebles, Dan Larson, Lyons
   Meanes, and Mimmo Peruffo loaded basses (although, I imagine that with
   this 76cm lute pure gut basses should also work well). AB seems to be
   one of the few pioneers still experimenting seriously in gut stringing.
   %
   Indeed, Anthony B. has always had an experimental atttitude to historic
   research. In his excellent article for Lute News 85, April 2008, he
   said, of the old Bologna lutes so sought after by the French, that
   Trichet tells us French lute players were looking for instruments
   which were very resonant, and capable of sustain; and he goes on to
   tell us of his experience of playing old lutes, The last, and most
   important point is that notes on such instruments have more sustain
   coupled with a more gradual and even decay to the sound. This is
   particularly important as it can give the impression that a note sounds
   on longer than it actually does.
   In his Gaultier recordings, AB considers this so necessary to his
   interpretation of this music that he appears willing to sacrifice ideal
   string length (and possibly barring), adopting the 76cm historic Wenger
   lute, just for the greater sustain this vintage lute affords.
   %
   Jakob Lindberg seems to confirm AB's experience, claiming  two almost
   contradictory characteristics for his Rauwolf: this has exactly what I
   want. It has that clarity  but also sustain, which is amazing.
   %
   It seems to be the function of this quality that AB is seeking to study
   with his recent recordings, at the expense of any characteristic
   specifically associated with more usual string lengths of around 68 cm
   (as correctly suggested by Martyn). Of course one might have preferred
   AB to have discovered another 69.5 cm Rauwolf, Greiff (or whatever),
   but no doubt he had to settle for the Wenger, or possibly chose it to
   isolate what this could bring, in spite of string length and barring
   differences.
   %
   The question then (implied by Martyn) is what AB may have gained or
   lost in choosing a lute which might seem more suitable for late German
   Baroque.
   AB mentions the elegeance and economy in the music, and it is possible
   that this also extended to the playing position and thus the length of
   the lute chosen, as seen in the rather nonchalant confortable elegant
   style of Charles Mouton:
   http://tinyurl.com/39r6xvd
   However, AB does have very long fingers, and seems to have very little
   problem in playing with such string lengths:
   http://tinyurl.com/77x475k
   Although the two do indeed look very different (and possibly, as Martyn
   says, the second might have been incongruous to a French audience of
   the time).
   %
   Soundwise, and this could be more important, we might have expected the
   276 year old Wenger to have lost a little in the mid register (as
   compared to the 80 to 100 year old 68 cm lutes that the French were
   seeking out), and with perhaps more bass presence, due to the 76cm
   loaded basses: the French with their smaller lutes, may rather have
   been exploring the mid range, at the expense of these frequency
   extremes.
   Only listening to AB playing French music with this lute can confirm or
   infirm, whether this is indeed the case.
   Unfortunateley, MP3 and recording equipment may not be up to the job of
   discriminating this (can we be sure that we are not hearing the mics,
   the room acoustics rather than differences in lutes).
   But here is a recording of a modern 67cm Warwick Frei (415) strung in a
   not too different way, from the Wenger, with loaded basses and Nick
   Baldock Meanes and trebles.
   http://luthiste.com/downloads/Mouton.mp3
   and here is an extract from Une Douceur violente, AB on the Wengere
   lute (375, loaded Basses, Larson Meanes, Baldock Trebles):
   Seventeenth-century French lute music
   [1]http://www.ramee.org/extraitsramee/1104/1104-01.mp3
   %
   Personally, trying only to concentrate on the tonal differences, and
   abstracting from player's style, as well as recording level and 415/370
   pitch (an almost impossible task?) I enjoy both, and I do hear a great
   deal of presence in the case of the old lute (with no obvious mid
   lack), but with exactly the slightly veiled (slightly nasal?) quality,
   which AB claims obliges him to play well back near the bridge with old
   lutes; this is my reaction, but I am not a musicologist, specialist in
   french baroque music.
   Just to 

[LUTE] Re: Why strings out of spider's thread ( blind objective?)

[Anthony Hind]

 type strings on most
   octave positions except 6c (although perhaps Pistoys are not actually
   Meanes?).
   http://www.luteshop.co.uk/stringsmace.htm
   I therefore changed HT octaves for Venice Meanes and immediately found
   a better blend within the bass voice (between the Venice basses and
   Venice octaves) but also across the Bass and Meanes voices (that were
   also Venices), and it helped to further lower the overall impedance of
   the bass course stringing.
   I would not argue that my Venice octaves are historic copies of Mace's
   Venice catlines Meanes. I very much doubt whether we can achieve
   absolute historic accuracy, or even if the result would be good if we
   did; but we may achieve a sort of relational accuracy, in which
   information gleaned from the old masters may help us to lower the
   impedance our modern gut stringing and to achieve better tonal blending
   within courses (octaves basses), across neighbouring courses within a
   voice, and even across all voices (this latter being a goal to achieve
   at least for music up to late German baroque, where a more independent
   bass line and deimifilA(c) basses seemed to have been adopted).
   This sort of reflection has been rather closed to synthetics users
   (although some do use NNG for trebles, and KF for meanes), but there
   are few synthetics specifically developed for a particular voice, but
   wirewound basses (whatever type) automatically bring a degree of tonal
   break between voices (as well as seriously encreasing impedance).
   %
   The use of Meanes octaves by Mace, may actually imply a fairly high
   historic tension on octaves in relation to the basses (but without
   increasing impedance, as octave Meanes are more flexible than HT), and
   with corresponding drop in bass string tension. I imagine, Ed, with
   this option you have thinner more manageable pure gut basses with your
   lute's 67 cm length?
   Nevertheless, it is an achievement to manage pure Pistoy basses down to
   10-D (and possibly now 11c) on a 67cm lute!
   Would you mind letting us know sometime, whether you are using the
   standard tensions suggested by Dan Larson's string calc. or some
   quite different values?
   These seem to be equal tension C-11 61,47Hz2.6kg
   giving 1.92 67cm
  C-11 octave 123.47
   2.6kg  giving 0.96
   Although, a thinner bass could possibly be achieved by upping the value
   of the octave:
  C-11 61,47Hz
  2.4kg  giving 1.84 67cm
  C-11 octave 123.47
   2.8kg  giving 1.00
   Compare this with Satoh  who also uses equal tension Bass Octave
   (according to David vO):
 C-11= P/G182 (2.4kg)  oct. c = T 92 (2.4kg)

   %
   For Satoh (and perhaps your present stringing?) it is the low tension
   that achieves low impedance (and good harmonicity). I personally prefer
   higher tension on lower impedance stringing, but I do enjoy Satoh's
   sound (as well as yours, as I have said).
   It is wonderful, in my opinion that a number of dedicated lutenists are
   using different stringing techniques, thus avoiding the tonal monotony
   of a standardized string solution (as occasionally has been rather the
   case with synthetic stringing).
   %
   Absolute historic tonal accuracy is illusory (I agree), but I still
   feel that historic string research, done well, may at least reveal the
   relative qualities of the different historic string types (trebles,
   meanes, basses and octaves, as described by Dowland Mace and others);
   and help us to avoid tonal breaks, achieve better harmonicity and
   improved sympathetic behaviour across voices, and possibly also across
   instruments.
   I would like to see this as an aid to creative success (rather than as
   principles with which to chastize), and synthetic users also to
   profit more  from historic reflection (with, or without, the help of
   spiders).
   Regards
   Anthony
   PS, Please don't consider my remarks as advice, discussion just allows
   me to clarify ideas, and even provocative responses can sometimes help
   these to evolve. I am well aware that your close vicinity to Dan gives
   you all the advice and experimental facility that you need.
 __

   De : Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
   AEUR : Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com; Martin Shepherd
   mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   Cc : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   EnvoyA(c) le : Samedi 10 mars 2012 16h26
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Why strings out of spider's thread ( blind
   objective?)
   Dear ones,
   I agree, in that waking up, I have the opportunity to read the
   interest in continuing to discuss lute strings.  Thank you to all who
   have contributed in the discussion.  My time this morning is most
   limited