Here's a demo screencast [1] -- there's a few issues with the
screencapture tool and my script -- of a tool I've been working on to
analyze microformats on a page and allow you to perform actions on
each microformat.
In particular, I'm looking a hAtom and showing the content (both as
formatted
Right -- and a uF for expressing that relationship; this gets a little
trickier. As uFs are about codifying existing practices, my
(superficial) look at comment nesting shows that many sites (like
slashdot) using nesting to express relationships, not explicit URI
linking. On the other hand,
If I can then get GMail to dynamically read the hCards from LinkedIn,
I'll be in Web 2.0 e-mail Nirvana.
Regards, etc...
David
On 9/11/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Check it out... as part of their redesign, LinkedIn will be supporting
hcard and hresume:
Comments are nested within entries and hfeed elements can be nested
too. Typically, one doesn't see multiple entries with comments on the
same page.
In usage that I've seen, one would probably use this nesting structure:
* hfeed (for the blog, optional)
** hentry (for the one entry on the page)
Why wouldn't it make sense? Comments are structured much the same way
blog posts are. My personal rule of thumb is things that you'd make an
Atom feed for -- and comments certainly fall under this category --
should be worth considering for hAtom if there's a clear HTML
representation.
What
On 9/11/06, Ben Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 11 Sep 2006, at 23:17, Stephanie Booth (bunny) wrote:
Does this way of using hatom on comments make sense to you?
It does to me, yes. Although not using two separate hAtom feeds. I'd
just have one with the original post as the first entry in the
How about public-profiles?
Regards, etc...
David
On 9/4/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While I take your point that profiles vs xmdp profiles I confusing,
the notion of a profile can also apply to groups or teams... So
user-profiles would be too specific.
Perhaps we should do more
Random thought: there may be some knowledge in this area that's
extractable from LDAP [1][2].
Regards, etc...
David
http://blogmatrix.blogmatrix.com
[1] http://www.howtoforge.com/linux_ldap_authentication
[2] http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6266
On 9/3/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This looks very possible. In particular,
(1) according the article, Yahoo only returns its results in HTML, so
we know HTML is good
(2) one could add an extra field to the OpenSearch XML (a description
file about how your results are returned) indicating that the file is
hAtom
(3) parties not
Like this [1]. 20 events, all look sensible.
Regards, et...
David
[1] http://tinyurl.com/fs9sr
On 8/28/06, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
One (or more, by the time you read this) of the events on this page is
marked
Try fn org instead of fn [1].
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard#Implied_.22n.22_Optimization
On 8/28/06, Gazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
David Janes mumbled the following on 28/08/2006 11:38:
Like this [1]. 20 events, all look sensible.
Including the hcard name(s
And in particular, have a look at XOXO Rest Datatypes [1]. There's
probably more work that could be done here to model typed values (i.e.
12000 meters) amongst other things; maybe you're the right person
;-)
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/rest/datatypes
On 8/27/06,
- Google Base data API is more or less the Atom Publishing Protocol.
- This means you can read/write/search
- The GBase data model is just adding key/value pairs to each entry
- Google Base is a store of records/entries with these key/values
- key can come from a predefined list or you can make
Google Base is explicitly trying to do something that Microformats are
not: boil the ocean, or in this particular case, a sea in the ocean.
Google Base silos are basically spreadsheets; each record is a row in
the spreadsheet. How do you model that in Microformats? In fact, the
best/easiest way
Dojo [1], a popular AJAX library, uses something even more XHTML
unfriendly for its widget inclusion:
div id=... dojoType=DojoWidgetName widgetId=ID
[Attribute=Value]
/div
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://dojotoolkit.org/
On 8/4/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...and develops YAWS
Chris Casciano wrote:
You're missing my case of working with a document that normally assumes
a full page feed
if a page is coded for that minimal case then all could be working just
fine unless one of the authors of the site happens to post a feed in the
body of an item and then you've
Tantek Çelik wrote:
Agreed with Brian's interpretation.
In addition, I think if we make a stronger suggestion (perhaps a SHOULD)
that individual hCards and hCalendar events have a unique-to-the-document
'id' attribute on their root elements, then automatic construction of
globally unique UIDs
Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
On 7/3/06, brian suda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For example,
http://events.example.com/#123
would become
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why not just keep it as is, http://events.example.com/#123?
You can't have id attributes that start with a number [1], so you
would have to
Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
Sorry about that! :) But.. isn't that beside the point?
Orthogonal!
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No [1]. LINK and A only.
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/index/attributes.html
Enric wrote:
Can rel= be used on span ?
-- Enric
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I was going to report the happy news that LinkedIn [1] is using hCards,
as my little Greasemonkey script was showing an icon on the page. Alas,
it's not to be -- here's what they're doing:
p
class=vcarda
href=/addressBookExport?exportMemberVCard=memberID=6172221
name=_exportVCardDownload
Chris Casciano wrote:
On Jun 13, 2006, at 5:18 PM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
I was going to report the happy news that LinkedIn [1] is using
hCards, as my little Greasemonkey script was showing an icon on the
page. Alas, it's not to be -- here's what they're doing:
p
class=vcarda
I suspect you won't go wrong using rel-enclosure [1] inside the hentry.
This is probably a candidate for official documentation.
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-enclosure
Enric wrote:
This is probably obvious. But I'm just starting to look at hAtom for
media/video
Did you get a sense from your recent projects of:
(1) what percentage of uF pages use profiles?
(2) what percentage of uFs are broken?
Regards, etc...
David
Tantek Çelik wrote:
We *do* have an hCard profile with URI, thanks to DanC:
http://www.w3.org/2006/03/hcard
But even without that, it
I thought Tara was tiring you out bringing you to clubs all hours of the
night [1]?
Alas, I have an early evening engagement. Are you going to Mush [2]?
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://www.horsepigcow.com/2006/05/jazz-in-tdot.html
[2] http://www.whatswiththat.ca/mush/
Chris Messina wrote:
Ah, very exciting, very nice. The only suggestion I have off the top of
my head is to make it more obvious where the uFs join together. Instead
of (hCard) maybe + hCard, with hCard being bold or something?
I like the fact to that you show the nesting of the elements of the
right hand side.
Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
On 4/30/06, Chris Messina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
We've talked much about media-metadata and fotonotes... I wonder where
XMP fits into this, as it's open source... At the very least we should
do due diligence, eh?
FWIW, XMP is just marketing speak for an RDF
Chris Casciano wrote:
A somewhat silly, but practical question on hatom parsing rules and
opaqueness...
Can you nest hatom feeds... and if so will the inner feed be seen as a
unique item or will it be hidden from parsers because its inside of the
outer feed's content element?
You can nest
Maybe this would be a good time to bring up rel-vcard (and
rel-microformat in general). In particular, to do one of
a rel=vcard href=/profile/fiahless/span class=fn
nicknamefiahless/span/a
or
a class=vcard rel=vcard href=/profile/fiahless/span class=fn
nicknamefiahless/span/a
To indicate
Chris Messina wrote:
Ooo... that's pretty cool.
How does that compare with the object-include concept?
;)
Good question:
- object-include is data inclusion from elsewhere on a page
- rel-uF is indicating that there's a better or more canonical version
of this uF object on the other side of
Scott Reynen wrote:
On Apr 19, 2006, at 2:23 PM, Ryan King wrote:
That's right. The reason you can't collapse a 'vcard' class name and
its 'fn' class name is that it makes putting a 'vcard' class name
inside another one becomes ambiguous.
I've seen this explanation a few times, and I've
Ryan King wrote:
This is great place to continue this debate. The issue (as I
understand it) is that this optimization doesn't allow nested vcards:
span class=vcard fn[SPAM-DATA]/span
This would still be a problem if it were nested inside another hcard.
(remember, @class is an
Ryan King wrote:
But the relationship isn't 'vcard'. 'vcard' describes the format (or
part of the format) of the referenced resource, not the relationship
between the two.
OK, fair enough: vcard is just a word, and in particular
[top-level-uf-id] is just a word. But because we're devising
Your memory serves you very poorly. Start here:
http://microformats.org/wiki/class-design-pattern
Regards, etc...
Mark Wallace wrote:
I'm sorry for asking a really silly question, but doesn't it make sense
that any class should have a a space as either a dash or underscore?
If memory
I have a weird feeling I may have had something to do with this (see the
comments):
http://blog.davidjanes.com/mtarchives/2006_04.html#003591
Regards, etc...
David
Chris Messina wrote:
At least the folks under the Yahoo umbrella get it:
http://upcoming.org/news/archives/2006/04/12/invite_f/
Weird, I had just responded saying:
1. microformats are well-defined, XML, and easy to use and thus nothing
is gained from pure XML serialization
2. content payload definition is well defined in Atom [1/2], so they
should consider using that.
I think it takes time for people to get their
Alf Eaton wrote:
At the moment, microformatted URIs are generally marked up in the href
attribute of an a tag with a class of 'url' (hreview, hcard) or
'email' (hcard). This works for URIs that normally have browser protocol
handlers (http:, mailto:), but not so well for other URIs (urn:,
This is an interesting idea. Here are the key elements to Russell
Beattie's proposal (I think) as it relates to hAtom:
I have to say I’m getting more and more convinced that this is the
direction that the mobile web is going to go. No recoding markup, no
“separate and always unequal” access
a section
for that too.
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues
Ryan King wrote:
On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar wrote:
Is there TBD section of the wiki to start the discussion about 0.2?
As far as I can tell, no, but David Janes may know better
Angus McIntyre wrote:
These lists of articles - which are essentially 'feeds' - seem like an
obvious match for hAtom, so I've tried to make the library produce
hAtom. However, there are some problems.
First, hAtom demands an author - either at the entry level, or at the
feed level - and in
Mark Pilgrim wrote:
http://beta.diveintomark.org/archives/2004/10/18/exit
Based on Wordpress 2.0.2. No changes were required in the Wordpress
code; it already marks up categories with rel=tag, and everything
else could be done in my theme files.
One question: does the vCard need to be inside
This has been updated for hAtom 0.1:
http://www.blogmatrix.com/tls/src/aumfp-0.6.0.tar.gz
Regards, etc...
David
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Andreas Haugstrup wrote:
I want to change my blog output to be hAtom compatible. It looks pretty
straightforward, but I have a question about author information.
I don't sign my name with every blog entry. I'm just me on my blog and I
don't see the point. Looking at hAtom it seems that Entry
Ray Ozzie demoed something called Live Clipboard [1] at ETech. The
application shouldn't be of any surprise to the folks here, though
there's no doubt there is a clever, useful and original part to what MS
has done.
Here's [2] what Ozzie claims:
We've defined small XML schemas, microformats
Dr.Ernie Prabhakar wrote:
Stick a fork in it, looks done to me. :-)
Great work, everyone. I'm sure there's much more that could (and will)
be done, but this is an excellent foundation.
Best,
Thanks. You all have 20 hours to object :-) to the official 0.1izing
of hAtom. If there's no
Robert Bachmann wrote:
Opacity
---
[A]ny microformat content inside a blockquote or cite element
within the Entry is should not be considered part of the Entry.
I think this should also apply to q, since q is very similar to
blockquote.
This is what I meant to have in there. Done. Note
Benjamin Carlyle wrote:
My feeling on this issue is that there is generally no requirement to
allow multiple a elements to be marked rel=bookmark. Certainly
multiple a elements with the same or different href values should be
permitted, but marking more than one as the bookmark seems extraneous
Tantek Çelik wrote:
My first thought is early Monday evenings like 5-6pm pacific time.
We could also try one on 2/13 and see how it goes. 2/20 is during
MashupCamp, but I think enough microformatters will be there to hold an
impromptu meetup.
How about having one after Mashup Camp, on the
The AUMFP doesn't match up with the hAtom spec at this second because
we've done quite a bit of changing in terminology over the last 5 weeks
and I haven't updated the code base. This is what's causing the problem
you're seeing there.
I'll put on my list of to-dos to get this to where the
This looks like some other sort of structured data initiative. Does
anyone know anything else about them?
http://www.rorweb.com/
http://www.meaningfuel.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Regards, etc...
David
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brian suda wrote:
David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
If you were to do this (I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea)
wouldn't you do it the other way, with the machine readable data
inside the title?
abbr class=region title=CACalifornia/a,
abbr class=country title=USU.S.A./abbr
except
Ryan King wrote:
On Jan 16, 2006, at 1:34 PM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
Ryan King wrote:
Why not:
p
Unbelievable. Yesterday's high temperature in
span class=adr localitySalem/span
it was 57 degrees out.
/p
Because locality is a subproperty of adr. They can't be on the same
element
Mark Pilgrim wrote:
I just checked support for basic microformat parsing into feedparser.py CVS.
Currently supported:
- rel=tag (maps to 'tags', like atom:category, rss:category, dc:subject, etc.)
- rel=enclosure (maps to 'enclosures', like rss:enclosure and
atom:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
- XFN
To
Ryan King wrote:
In http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry_Permalink, we have:
This may be a microformat in itself: rel-bookmark.
Which does not seem neccessary, as 'bookmark' is defined as a link type
in HTML 4 [http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#h-6.12]. Why don't
we just
Tantek Çelik wrote:
An explanation is different from a specification.
I would welcome a tutorial on rel-bookmark on microformats.org -- let's just
be very clear that it is NOT a new microformat, nor would it be a
specification.
Perhaps we could call it:
Dr.Ernie Prabhakar wrote:
Hi David,
On Dec 31, 2005, at 9:58 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
I don't even have the slightest idea how to respond to this. I've been
working on hAtom since August (hardly a rush), constantly soliciting
feedback, documenting progress and descions, recently
Kevin Marks wrote:
On Dec 27, 2005, at 3:43 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote:
This means working deliberately to avoid the two cardinal sins that
namespaces typical both enable and encourage:
1. The same term is used to mean two different things
2. Two terms are used to mean the same things
Indeed.
The AUMFP provides Python (2.3) classes for extracting microformat
content from HTML documents, and includes classes for hCard, hCalendar,
xFolk, and rel-tag. It should be easily extendable to new uF types.
The source code is here [1] as a tarball and includes a CGI interface. A
running demo
) || (element.tagName == OL)) {
// ... do stuff ...
}
}
}
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://www.mochikit.com/doc/html/MochiKit/DOM.html
Paul Bryson wrote:
David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote...
What are you trying to do in Javascript? Certainly, you couldn't expect
all XOXO's in the wild
Paul Bryson wrote:
David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote...
Nice. I just discovered a bug in my parser that screwed up the title
nesting. Here's [1] the new and improved version.
Does your parser fill the Author from the hCard's FN/NICKNAME field? I am
curious if it would, given that the hCard
Paul Bryson wrote:
You'll want to move class=logo from the li down to the img where it
belongs though.
Done. Is it required to be in an IMG only, or can the IMG act as another
element's value (as I had it previously).
You should be able to now convert the Date Posted into a nice
published
- Original Message -
From: Benjamin Carlyle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Microformats Discuss microformats-discuss@microformats.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] hAtom draft
David,
On Wed, 2005-11-23 at 04:02 -0500, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote
://outputthis.blogspot.com/
http://pokemon.broadbandmechanics.com/~phil/mt/
Regards, etc...
David
Ryan King wrote:
On Dec 12, 2005, at 7:22 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
The hAtom Template Rewriter now supports WordPress (as well as
MovableType and Blogger). If you have a WordPress blog and would like
The hAtom Template Rewriter now supports WordPress (as well as
MovableType and Blogger). If you have a WordPress blog and would like to
support the hAtom microformat, please send me a note and I'll set you up
Regards, etc...
David
http://www.blogmatrix.com
existing template(s)
(4)
The URIs above redirect to trinityanne.com -- this is a temporary thing.
Please let me know how it works!
Regards, etc.
Steve Jenson wrote:
I'd be willing to help. I have a Blogger blog.
Steve
On 12/10/05, David Janes -- BlogMatrix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm looking
I'm looking for Blogger, MovableType or TypePad bloggers to test my
hAtom Template Rewriter tool. This is a web page that you input your
existing script and out pops a rewritten script with all the appropriate
hAtom css class/rel information added.
Also, if you're using a different blogging
I've added xFolk [1] to the list of microformats the Almost Universal
Microformat Parser handles.
Examples:
http://tinyurl.com/cdcfp (http://de.lirio.us/rubric)
http://tinyurl.com/cddta (http://unalog.com/)
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/xfolk
- RelHome?
- rel-home?
- Rel-Home?
Variants of these across the rel-* are all available. My understanding
is that this should be:
- RelHome -- this official name
- rel-home -- the wiki page name
Yes, no?
Regards, etc...
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C. Hudley wrote:
On 12/8/05, David Janes -- BlogMatrix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've added xFolk [1] to the list of microformats the Almost Universal
Microformat Parser handles.
Examples:
http://tinyurl.com/cddta (http://unalog.com/)
This is very cool, thanks!
What is the intended meaning
Here's what I've been working on for the last couple of days. It's a
service -- actually, a front end onto a Python library/framework -- that
can rip apart microformats into a (hopefully) simpler format that will
be easier for programs to manipulate.
pages:
- the interface [1]
- an example of
Tantek Çelik wrote:
From a schema standpoint, yes, agreed completely. As to the names of the
specific fields, as noted above, we can reuse the property/value construct
from hCard, and avoid having to have both rated and rating.
Thanks very much for the feedback David. This will be a
Buffalo Bills in EvDB
http://tinyurl.com/ck7jr
Some Chilean event
http://tinyurl.com/csedz
Ice Hockey stuff -- alas missing the times. Perhaps there's something
wrong with my parser?
http://iceoasis.shrub.ca/
http://tinyurl.com/ahrs3
Brian Suda's lesser known holidays:
Tantek Çelik wrote:
On 12/7/05 12:59 PM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I'm looking at this [1]. It looks like the dtstart and dtend are
outside of the associated vevents and thus shouldn't be parsed. Agree
or disagree?
Regards, etc...
David
[1] http://we05.com
Ryan King wrote:
On Dec 4, 2005, at 9:15 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
Ryan King wrote:
4. Why do we prefer h# over class=title for entry titles?
See my earlier note. I'd really appreciate if you or Tantek got back
to me here: my understanding is that we'd always prefer appropriate
Danny Ayers wrote:
On 12/6/05, Andreas Haugstrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, that was a typo. rel=start gets shown as a home button in the
browser.
Thanks - got it.
[[
Start
Refers to the first document in a collection of documents. This
link type tells search engines which document
Thanks Dimitri,
I aim to please. I hope to have an interesting webservice to show off
before the end of the week relating to uFs also.
Regards, etc...
David
Dimitri Glazkov wrote:
David,
Just in case people didn't say this enough: this hAtom thing is
tremendous. I am working on
I'm forwarding this e-mail from the semantic web mailing list as there
seems to be some interesting ideas that can be drawn upon.
Here's [1] an example FOAF profile on Google Base. Looks very doable for
hCards, no?
Regards, etc...
David
http://www.blogmatrix.com
[1]
Ryan King wrote:
On Nov 23, 2005, at 1:02 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
Have at it:
http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom
Some comments (sorry, its taken me awhile to get to this):
1. I notice that feed title and feed permalink have been deferred to
future versions (see http
Tantek Çelik wrote:
On 12/1/05 12:41 PM, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dec 1, 2005, at 6:24 AM, Luke Arno wrote:
On 12/1/05, Ryan King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 23, 2005, at 1:02 AM, David Janes -- BlogMatrix wrote:
[ snip ]
4. Why do we prefer h# over class=title for entry
dl class=telcall
dtCaller/dt
dd+44 (0)7860 138 086/dd
dtType/dt
ddIncoming/dd
dtStart/dt
ddabbr title=20051124T22:36:00Z24 Nov, 22:36/abbr/dd
(etc)
/dl
Regards, etc...
David
Simon Kittle wrote:
Hi,
After the brief discussion and thoughts I gained from the experts I've
marked up an
Instead of narrowing the problem to letting users specify their own
avatar, why not let them specify their own vcard (or the URI to that
vcard), solving not only the the avatar image problem but allowing
alternate ids depending on the context?
At this point, I'll mention a uF I started
Have at it:
http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom
Regards, etc...
David
http://www.blogmatrix.com
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