[Horse]
[Ian] made some good points in your last couple of posts re: the
Left/Right situation on this list and I agree with you.
.
I also agree.
Saying that someone labelled F has characteristic G,
when there are many examples where they have not-G
there are many examples where non-F's
Hi Craig,
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing
that capitalism was superior to socialism? I'm sure in doing
so he was aware of your valid point about generalizations.
But as he wrote, A science without generalization is no
science at all (Lila, 4).
Anyway, the MOQ is
Nothing wrong with politics Platt, just partisan politics that is a
product of SOMism. Left right left right left right subject object
subject object Zz
Noticed you didn't bother to respond when I started a thread on
pragmatic capitalism.
But I expect I'm a pinko. Sorry
Ian
Ian said:
Nothing wrong with politics Platt, just partisan politics that is a product of
SOMism. Left right left right left right subject object subject object
Zz
dmb says:
I don't see how it makes any sense to dismiss partisan politics as a product of
SOM. As Pirsig paints it,
Dmb with an intelligent interlocutor such as yourself I could debate
that, but honestly even Pirsig in the quotes you provide, indicates
that the left lost any intellectual moral high ground it should have
had.
If we established some working understanding of left I could easily
agree
[Platt]
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing
that capitalism was superior to socialism?
.
No, he was spot on!
.
[Platt]
the MOQ is about reality. Politics is part of that.
Pirsig didn't hesitate to comment on it. Nor should we
when we find it relevant to an
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:43 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
[Platt]
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing
that capitalism was superior to socialism?
No, but it appears he over estimated his readers in some cases. He
would have done better to make his position more
Pirsig said:
...a culture that supports the dominance of intellectual values over social
values is absolutely superior to one that does not. (Lila, p.311)
From a static point of view, socialism is more moral than capitalism. It's a
higher form of evolution. It is an intellectually guided
Platt asked:
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing that capitalism
was superior to socialism?
dmb says:
Is Platt being intellectually lazy and dishonest in reporting what Pirsig says
about capitalism and socialism? Yes, very lazy and very dishonest. I've had to
what a nice word , Dave, corporate whores,! been watching a documentary
about Corporate America,
after the financial world crisis, induced by the G gekko's, laws are refined
nowadays to prevent the greenspan
mechanism to occur again, corporate America is now switching to buying in
physikally on
All politics is partisan, Ian. Otherwise, no need for elections,
as in commie countries. High Quality, Low Quality, High
Quality, Low Quality --- no Zz for me.
On 25 Oct 2010 at 18:47, Ian wrote:
Nothing wrong with politics Platt, just partisan politics that is a
product of SOMism. Left
: david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Platt asked:
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing that
capitalism was superior to socialism?
dmb says:
Is Platt being
Folks
I'm going to make one last post in a friendly way before the shit hits
the fan.
Either get back on track talking about the MoQ, leave out the bullshit
politics or there will be consequences.
Horse
--
Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Platt asked:
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing that
capitalism was superior to socialism?
dmb says:
Is Platt being intellectually lazy and dishonest in reporting what
Pirsig says about capitalism and socialism? Yes, very lazy
Mark asked,
Does the UK government have any control
Funnily enough, it does since we elected Hitler, or was it Stalin, let
me check. The UK is no different to the US or any other western
democracy.
... over what private health insurance can charge and provide?
Just the same as the US, in
Hi Ian,
What kind of controls does the UK place on its private insurance carriers?
Thanks,
Mark
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 1:48 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
Mark asked,
Does the UK government have any control
Funnily enough, it does since we elected Hitler, or was
Hi Ian
You've made some good points in your last couple of posts re: the
Left/Right situation on this list and I agree with you.
I've tried to avoid getting dragged into the stupidity of what's been
going on here but obviously haven't done a very good job.
So folks, on those threads that
Hi Mark, you first,
What kind of controls does the US place on its private (health)
insurance companies ?
Ian
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 3:55 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Ian,
What kind of controls does the UK place on its private insurance carriers?
Thanks,
Mark
On Sun, Oct 24,
I don't know that is why I asked the question. You stated that they did in
your post previous to mine. I assumed you had the information.
Mark
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Mark, you first,
What kind of controls does the US place on its
No Mark, he he, you first.
You asked the question specifically about the UK situation, implying
it was different to the normal US situation in some way significant.
Seemed to me you were making a rhetorical point.
Ian
Sent from my iPhone
On 25 Oct 2010, at 04:57, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com
conviently bending your statements to fit
my own agenda.
like you do
whats the problem?
- Original Message
From: platthol...@gmail.com platthol...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 8:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
On 20 Oct 2010 at 17
Sorry Mark, I didn't answer this one.
While there are shortcomings with the NHS, as with any nationwide health
system in any country, it is a system that very few would be without. It
is part of a National Insurance scheme and there's the clue. National
Insurance. Everybody (more or less)
Thanks Horse, I hear both sides. I'm glad there is not a committee any more
than there is in the private sector. Healthcare is kind of like religion,
it is based on a lot of fear. We'll see what happens here on the other side
of the pond. Hopefully we can still go private. Does the UK
Ron to Andre:
If you could place?Germany and somalia a mile from the other,
it would give you a hint for the feel.
Andre:
Ah, you mean Mercedes Benz combined with water, gas and electricity
restrictions?
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
Hi Platt,
Steve:
Yes, an ever-improving moral code. Just as rational inquiry has
increased our knowledge about every other subject, it has and will
continue to add to our knowledge about morals.
What do you propose as the alternative to rational inquiry into
morals? Just go with whatever
[Steve]
Scientists will tell you that not washing your hands after using the
bathroom spreads disease. Have you ever been forced by a scientist to
wash your hands?
[Arlo interjects]
Well I don't know if its a scientist who does the enforcement, but
you can damn well but that in many
Hi Arlo,
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Steve]
Scientists will tell you that not washing your hands after using the
bathroom spreads disease. Have you ever been forced by a scientist to wash
your hands?
[Arlo interjects]
Well I don't know if its a
[Steve]
Like always, when we know that something is immoral we still need to
decide through the democratic process when it is and is not important
and justified to enforce a moral obligation through the coercive
power of government (itself a moral question that only rational
inquiry can
On 21 Oct 2010 at 9:26, Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi Platt,
Steve:
Yes, an ever-improving moral code. Just as rational inquiry has
increased our knowledge about every other subject, it has and will
continue to add to our knowledge about morals.
What do you propose as the alternative to
The following is a re-run from last August but I think it bears repeating:
There is a sociologist named Phil Zuckerman who looked at the levels of
religiosity in the various nations and their possible correlations to the basic
quality of life in those nations. He also looked at the levels of
Hi David,
Thanks for the rerun, I had missed that. I find it difficult to blame
religion per se as a cause. Religion develops as a result, and cannot be
placed at the root. The previous political society in Russia was meant to
deny religious expression and is now moving in the other direction.
what?
I am conviently bending your statements to fit
my own agenda.
like you do
whats the problem?
- Original Message
From: platthol...@gmail.com platthol...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 8:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
On 20
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Arlo,
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Steve]
Scientists will tell you that not washing your hands after using the
bathroom spreads disease. Have you ever been forced
From: platthol...@gmail.com platthol...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 8:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
On 20 Oct 2010 at 17:21, X Acto wrote:
'Nor do I want to governed by a bunch of scientists
susceptible to corruption by money and politics
Well put Ham. I didn't know that Mao had a BA in English composition.
Mark
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Ham Priday hampd...@verizon.net wrote:
Greetings, Steve [Mark, Platt quoted] --
On 19 Oct 2010 at 6:54 PM. Mark wrote:
Science is based on a system of equality through measurement.
Steve:
What spiritual matters are you talking about? Harris embraces a new
spiritual rationality that recognizes that science presupposes values
and can apply its reason to study values. This is Pirsig's dream but
apparently your nightmare.
Mark:
Steve, spirituality is not rational. Rationality
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Platt,
Platt to Mark:
I couldn't agree with you more. You have deftly revealed what's behind
the
curtain of science's claim to truth. What's true is what Pirsig
observed:
Science has no values. Not
Steve,
This is exactly the same point as the other thread ...
Science has no values. Not officially
As you say Pirsig's point was not to put science down, but to point out
where it needed to improve its act. Pragmatic anti-skepticism, as you said
in the other thread.
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010
No , i did not miss the partdirect harm, it is the direct-widget in
combination with the word harm that i find offensive, Platt
the indirect impied implication is lethal,and my gratitude towards the
Liberating Americans, Canadians ans all the
Allied forces is incredible, pure and without
Platt to Andre:
Rather it's the Muslim ayatollahs who, in the name of Allah, promote murder.
Andre:
No Platt, you are avoiding the question I asked. You said:'I think anyone who
thinks
they know better than other people about spiritual matters...'
Andre: I said that Wilders places himself in
Stop Press ... Hot News
Andre to Platt
Platt, you are avoiding the question I asked
Regards ;-)
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
Rather it's the Muslim ayatollahs who, in the name of Allah, promote
murder.
Andre:
No
Ian,
And it could be the question is a red herring and not
worthy of an answer. It might be, and I'm not saying it
is, that it is possible. It doesn't deserve the all-knowing ;-).
Marsha
On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:18 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Stop Press ... Hot News
Andre to
I shall have to switch emoticons if ;-) is all knowing
Anything is possible, agreed ;-o
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:26 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Ian,
And it could be the question is a red herring and not
worthy of an answer. It might be, and I'm not saying it
is, that it is
Or if it's not, anything is possible too, especially your
brand of avoidance.
On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:30 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
I shall have to switch emoticons if ;-) is all knowing
Anything is possible, agreed ;-o
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:26 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net
Only as an aside, Andre, i'v been watching the interview Moskowicz gave
yesterday on nos channel
Wilders lawyer,..pff, he wants to settle for a mistrail before the trail
shapes itself, he is taking the position that
the lands advokate made some mistakes.
Typicall.
2010/10/20 Andre Broersen
Look Marsha, that's a dirty strawman trick is there any question I was
asked that I'm avoiding ?
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:33 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Or if it's not, anything is possible too, especially your
brand of avoidance.
On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:30 AM, Ian
After looking I can only say 'Aren't you cute!'
The archives are chocked full of examples, but at the moment
I'm not going to placed in a position of defense.
Marsha
On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:34 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
Look Marsha, that's a dirty strawman trick is there any
Ian:
Stop Press ... Hot News
Andre to Platt
Platt, you are avoiding the question I asked
Andre:
Chuckle, chuckle. Yes Ian, I know and should know better, but one can always
keep on hoping that something constructive for both parties comes out of it.
Alas, discussions with Platt mostly end
Hi Marsha,
I'll treat aren't you cute as a rhetorical question, not requiring an
answer.
If I'm wrong, do let me know.
Now back to the universe ...
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:41 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
After looking I can only say 'Aren't you cute!'
The archives are chocked
Hi Andre ... again, all old news, but yes.
BTW I love the US and Americans in general.
Platt is a whole 'nother animal, very un-American in my experience.
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Ian:
Stop Press ... Hot News
Andre to Platt
Adrie to Andre:
Only as an aside, Andre, i'v been watching the interview Moskowicz gave
yesterday on nos channel Wilders lawyer,..pff, he wants to settle for a
mistrail before the trail shapes itself, he is taking the position that
the lands advokate made some mistakes.
Typicall.
Andre:
Yes,
Ian to Andre:
BTW I love the US and Americans in general.
Platt is a whole 'nother animal, very un-American in my experience.
Andre:
Good to keep this in mind Ian. I haven't had the experience of traveling to the
US.
Maybe, some day... .
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
[Mark]
Yes there would be, if God were the result of such rational inquiry.
[Arlo]
Then there would be little disagreement about god, and certainly no need for
wars and genocide to spread god's message. Churches would be replaced by
philosophical roundtables.
Also, if its rational inquiry that
Hi Steve,
On 19 Oct 2010 at 20:45, Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi Platt,
Steve:
This is a typical Platteral shift. The question was not about whether
religions have any true moral beliefs. Of course they do, and since
religions contradict one another's moral teachings they also obviously
have
Hi Mark,
Well said. Science constantly ascribes the creation of new patterns to
emergence which doesn't explain anything. It only describes what happened.
Best,
Platt
On 19 Oct 2010 at 22:14, 118 wrote:
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:07 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
Rather it's the Muslim ayatollahs who, in the name of Allah, promote
murder.
Andre:
No Platt, you are avoiding the question I asked. You said:'I think anyone
who thinks
they know better than
Hi Platt, you said
[Emergence] only describes what happened.
Which is good surely, ie it's honest and empirical ?
Any explanation that doesn't would therefore be dishonest.
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:45 PM, platthol...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Mark,
Well said. Science constantly ascribes the
Hi Platt,
Steve:
What you see as a weakness of science Pirsig sees as its key strength
relative to religion (but that's not surprising since you and Pirsig
don't seem to agree on much):
...it's science's unique organization for the handling of the Dynamic
that gives it its superiority.
- Original Message -
From: ADRIE KINTZIGER parser...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
No , i did not miss the partdirect harm, it is the direct-widget in
combination with the word harm that i find
- Original Message -
From: Ian Glendinning ian.glendinn...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Hi Platt, you said
[Emergence] only describes what happened.
Which is good surely, ie it's honest
- From: Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Hi Platt, you said
[Emergence] only describes what happened.
Which is good surely, ie it's honest and empirical ?
Any explanation
Steve:
What spiritual matters are you talking about? Harris embraces a new
spiritual rationality that recognizes that science presupposes values
and can apply its reason to study values. This is Pirsig's dream but
apparently your nightmare.
Mark:
Steve, spirituality is not rational. Rationality
My dream too, Steve.
Ian
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Steve:
What spiritual matters are you talking about? Harris embraces a new
spiritual rationality that recognizes that science presupposes values
and can apply its reason to study values.
Platt to Andre:
Deserving simple answers.
Andre:
Indeed two unequivocal denials, 'No'.
You have hereby made an absolute mockery of your own (original) observation.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
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Archives:
On 20 Oct 2010 at 16:08, Andre Broersen wrote:
Platt to Andre:
Deserving simple answers.
Andre:
Indeed two unequivocal denials, 'No'.
You have hereby made an absolute mockery of your own (original) observation.
Platt
If it pleases you to think so, good for you.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Platt to Andre:
Deserving simple answers.
Andre:
Indeed two unequivocal denials, 'No'.
You have hereby made an absolute mockery of your own (original) observation.
Platt
If it pleases you to think so, good for you.
Andre:
No Platt, it does not please me. I had hoped to learn something more
On 20 Oct 2010 at 16:41, Andre Broersen wrote:
Platt to Andre:
Deserving simple answers.
Andre:
Indeed two unequivocal denials, 'No'.
You have hereby made an absolute mockery of your own (original) observation.
Platt
If it pleases you to think so, good for you.
Andre:
No Platt, it does not
[Platt]
What rights are you talking about. The right not to be offended? Is
that your idea of a right?
[Platt on Oct 5, 2010]
Dutch politician Geert Wilders is being tried for hate speech. He
is charged with inciting hatred against Muslims. If convicted he
faces up to one year in prison.
cocoon of
defaitism.
- Original Message - From: ADRIE KINTZIGER parser...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
No , i did not miss the partdirect harm, it is the direct-widget in
combination
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:29 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Mark]
Yes there would be, if God were the result of such rational inquiry.
[Arlo]
Then there would be little disagreement about god, and certainly no need
for
wars and genocide to spread god's message. Churches
- Original Message - From: ADRIE KINTZIGER parser...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
No , i did not miss the partdirect harm, it is the direct-widget in
combination with the word harm
- Original Message -
From: Ian Glendinning ian.glendinn...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Yes, but we're just back to a debate on the meaning of the word
explain, how, why, etc.
Which is where we
Thats right Ian,
she is going to avoid that position.
so stop avoiding
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 5:41:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
After looking I can only say 'Aren't you cute
Andre,
If you could place Germany and somalia a mile from the other,
it would give you a hint for the feel.
-Ron
- Original Message
From: Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 6:15:43 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral
- Original Message -
From: Steven Peterson peterson.st...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Hi Platt,
Steve:
What you see as a weakness of science Pirsig sees as its key strength
relative
Ian:
Yes, but we're just back to a debate on the meaning of the word
explain, how, why, etc.
Which is where we started 8 years ago Platt, and I'm more interested
in honesty than word games.
Ian
Platt
8 years ago? Your memory is a lot better than mine. Did you then explain how
emergence
Platt
An ever-changing moral code based on what a bunch of scientists
say at any given time? That's not my idea of the good life. I like to
plan ahead with some assurance that what is right today will be right
tomorrow. Nor do I want to governed by a bunch of scientists
susceptible to
From: X Acto xa...@rocketmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 7:59:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Platt
An ever-changing moral code based on what a bunch of scientists
say at any given time? That's not my idea of the good life. I like to
plan ahead
'Nor do I want to governed by a bunch of scientists
susceptible to corruption by money and politics. As I stated before,
my morality is based on individual liberty to do as one wishes
-Platt Holden
Ron:
Thats right Platt!!
THAtS YoUR JoB!!! thats YoUR right!!
to be corrupted by money
Hi Steve,
My mistake, I read rational spirituality, not spiritual rationality. And I
am familiar with the passages, the second right before he goes nuts, I
believe. I read them a bit differently than you. So we are talking about a
rationality that is spiritual. The term spiritual in this sense
On 20 Oct 2010 at 17:21, X Acto wrote:
'Nor do I want to governed by a bunch of scientists
susceptible to corruption by money and politics. As I stated before,
my morality is based on individual liberty to do as one wishes
-Platt Holden
Ron:
Thats right Platt!!
THAtS YoUR JoB!!! thats YoUR
Hi Mark
On 21/10/2010 01:26, 118 wrote:
For example the value of life will soon be measured (as it is in England) to
determine
whether you should live or die.
Really? How does that work then?
Horse
--
Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines
or
Hi Horse,
I suppose you would be more in tune with this than I, I left England 20
years ago and did use the NHS while I was there. But all I have are stories
told to me over the last year. I do have a lot of friends in England who
opt for private insurance because of fears on their part. My
Hi Craig, yes.
But isn't that obvious to a MoQist ?
Facts and Values are on different planes, in different categories, different
animals.
The idea that science can have all the facts is odd anyway ... what are
facts as far as science is concerned, except those things science holds to
be true
Me too Mark, that's why I phrased it that way originally do is what
get's things done, clearly.
When you do unto others to get them off their arse you are indeed doing as
you would be done by if you were sitting around on your arse, you
would value others giving you reasons to get up
Hi Platt,
Steve:
It's not meant to be true by definition. It's true because life G is
better than life B. The basis of morality for Harris is that same as
that of Pirsig: some things are better than others.
Platt
Yes, but as you know, Pirsig applies that basic premise beyond human
Hi Platt,
Platt:
Today's NYTimes has an interesting article entitled, Morals Without God? The
author, a biologist, writes:
It is impossible to know what morality would be like without religion. It
would require a visit to a human culture that is not now and never was
religious. That such
Hi Ian,
Ian:
But isn't that obvious to a MoQist ?
Facts and Values are on different planes, in different categories, different
animals.
Steve:
That sounds to me to be completely unMOQish. In the MOQ, facts are a
species of value. Facts always presuppose values such as standards for
what ought
Hi Craig
[Steve]
science can have something to say about at least some moral questions
Craig
But if there are some moral questions that science can't answer
even if it had all the facts, isn't this a fact/value gap?
Steve:
If we had literally all the facts, then our difficulties in
Just word games Steve,
I agree Facts always presuppose values such as standards for
what ought to count as a fact
That's the sense in which I meant they are different categories of thing.
Ian
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian:
But
Hi Steve,
When you state Our claims about morality can have truth-value
and be as objective as our scientific claims. are you talking
about some definition of scientific objectivism?
Marsha
On Oct 18, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi Mark,
Mark:
In my opinion, a
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Platt,
Steve:
It's not meant to be true by definition. It's true because life G is
better than life B. The basis of morality for Harris is that same as
that of Pirsig: some things are better than others.
Hi Marsha,
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:11 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Hi Steve,
When you state Our claims about morality can have truth-value
and be as objective as our scientific claims. are you talking
about some definition of scientific objectivism?
I'm promoting pragmatic
On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Steven Peterson wrote:
Hi Marsha,
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:11 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Hi Steve,
When you state Our claims about morality can have truth-value
and be as objective as our scientific claims. are you talking
about some definition
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Platt,
Platt:
Today's NYTimes has an interesting article entitled, Morals Without
God? The
author, a biologist, writes:
It is impossible to know what morality would be like without religion.
It
Platt to Steve:
Rather I think anyone who thinks they know better than
other people about spiritual matters is not only deceiving himself, but
poses a danger to others. Certainly history shows that to be the case.
What I know is that I know little. So I don't condemn an entire group
who, by
Hi Ian,
Yea, it's not new that there is a lot of crap in the bible. It is more the
interpretation that is crap. The bible is full of words that are used
righteously alright. Have had one thrown at me.
Mark
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 1:38 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
Me
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Marsha,
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:11 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Hi Steve,
When you state Our claims about morality can have truth-value
and be as objective as our scientific claims. are you
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Platt,
Steve:
I haven't been following moq,org for a while. Did I miss the part
where you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? It is my
understanding that you don't accept the truth of any of
Hi Mark,
Steve:
This is a typical Platteral shift. The question was not about whether
religions have any true moral beliefs. Of course they do, and since
religions contradict one another's moral teachings they also obviously
have a lot of false moral beliefs. If there are any people of faith
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