scuss most issues
of interest to most. The Green MUST, or will not be endorsed.
The Green Party is a SERIOUS party of SIGNIFICANT change. The DFL is
NOT. Their candidates are NOT. If they were, their financial backers would
walk away. They KNOW what they must NOT talk about.
--David Shove
Roseville
idual" for the job. Candidates
come in the context of organizations and principles, of checks and
balances, of majorities to organize the legislature, etc. Elections are
also about the best organizations, best parties, best principles.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, David Br
and taking away their pepper gas
and rubber bullets and tank-like vehicles etc.
--David Shove
On 29 Jan 2001, Gary
Bowman wrote:
I am going to offer a much more serious response to David's post, even if
Carol Becker offered a much more clever one.
Even if Carol hadn't brought forth
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wondering if there hasn't been enough police bashing for the sake of police
bashing.
No, there can never be enough police bashing for the sake of police
bashing.
More! More police bashing for the sake of police bashing, I cry!
More! More! More
of the
parties of the rich. The Green Party can get lots of money only if it
stops being the Green Party. What it can and does get is lots of
volunteers/workers, many more per party population than the Ds or Rs.
--David Shove
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a) I regard my campaign
es -
but what many want should.
So, unless there are other more persuasive reasons, I can see no need to
name $25 contributors.
--David Shove
On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Russell Wayne Peterson wrote:
I just have to re-iterate that I think this practice of reporting individual
contributions that are
Voting) then it's on to PR, like IRV but
for multiple member districts. After IRV takes hold, PR will seem as
familiar and good as home, mom, and apple pie.
--David Shove
On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Kim Carlson wrote:
Let me continue if I can...Accountability seems to be the issue in the
discussions
, and to be known to be open to
supporting an alternative candidate. And then DO it. Anything less is
eyewash.
Perhaps PM has further details on the Higgins affair.
--David Shove
On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Progressive Minnesota had a stadium question (Yea or Nay
our large and medium size
(self-defined!) interest groups represented in a fertile juice of debate
at the City Council! Imagine all the great discussions that would be
encouraged in the citizens at large! What an exciting place we'd have
then!
--David Shove
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Gene Martinez wrote
ls more progressive, by Greens -
who then would likely be corrupted by big money, just like everyone else.)
--David Shove
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Arthur LaRue wrote:
A few people have mentioned a system of proportional representation (which
is what this talk of at-large seats stems from) whic
And which group of reps, the single-seat or the at-large, get the most
money and power? How different are its votes from single-seat-only
legislatures?
If it's not much different (my guess) why even bother? Because it will
fool and blow off real reform for 10 or 20 years?
--David Shove
it? Get
em. No mercy. Zero tolerance.
--David Shove
a zero tolerance kind of guy
On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, j burns wrote:
Here, here! When and where is the line drawn between crime and mere legal
violations? What constitutes a mere legal violation? To some, it's a DWI, or
a speeding ticket
alcohol ok, smoke no
--David Shove
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Fredric Markus wrote:
Same here preferring smoke/alcohol-free.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Scott McGerik
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:06 PM
To: MPLS-ISSUES
. VERY un-Green. I don't care WHAT the supposed
good use is - get it from the income tax or DO WITHOUT the service until
people are in the streets and sitting in at the Leg.
--David Shove
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, ROBERT VELEZ wrote:
Tim Penny had mentioned cutting the LGA if he were elected and his
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
Jim. I'm beginning to think you wouldn't recognize
a real live Republican if one hit you in the face.
That's how I (and I suspect many others) tell.
David Shove
Roseville
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Minneapolis Issues Forum
Sperm like it here, he ejaculated, exposing his hard luck-story.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, List Manager wrote:
OK, sue me, I loved writing that subject linebut it is a real
Minneapolis-related news story in the Minneapolis-based paper
http://www.startribune.com
See above for John Kolstad's email address.
Hello David:
John does not have any contact info on his request making it difficult for
residents to respond.
David Shove [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Fw, with his permission, from my
friend John Kolstad. Please reply here or to John, not to me
of the water closet.
Now we know where their lever of power is.
We can handle that.
--David Shove
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. In past years, admittedly,
there's been some trouble. But couldn't this situation be evaluated
and the officer dispatched where he'd be needed more?
Probably looking for furiners
--David Shove
Roseville
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Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic
on the Minneapolis angle?
FAirVote is working on the STATE level this upcoming session.
--David Shove
Roseville
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as the world's most knowledge
competitive region.
We knew that.
--David Shove
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that councilperson Dean Zimmermann advances this every week or
so, the last vote I know of 8 to 5, against. With 2 votes switched, 6 to
7, for. I think the IS the business of the city council; it is all too
easy to hide a pro-war vote under the claim that it's none of our
business.
--David Shove
life here
much better for all of us.
--David Shove
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
I would support a resolution in the City Council that similarly linked how
the city did business or otherwise performed its functions with opposition
to the war effort. However, I fail to see how
Baja Fridley
--David Shove
Roseville
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Saint Minny
Minnipaul
Blooming Ed Wood St. LouisPaul MinnePark
Pig's All
Hudson West
Why'szata Metropolis?
Thanks,
Scott Vreeland , Seward, AKA -Longfellow north, East Ventura Village,
suburbs
On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, dyna wrote:
.
Most anyone on this list
would have been proud to work with any of the Humphreys, Sabos, or Moes.
Proof that I'm not most anyone on this list. Skip or Buck Humphrey? Roger
Moe? I'd sooner vote for a box of rocks or a yellow dog.
-David Shove
Roseville
to make life better for themselves, they'll pass IRV
(Instant Runoff Voting) because most Greens will in fact vote for the DFL
as # 2 choice. Let's get on with IRV!
--David Shove
Roseville
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E
races.
This is how it was several years ago. I left PM because of it. It stayed
the same for some time. I hear there have been recent changes, so perhaps
it is better than it was.
--David Shove
Roseville
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Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic
to Coke or Pepsi?
--David Shove
Roseville
o
cast our second choice for another party.
___
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for them.
Get real.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, McGreevy, James A., III wrote:
Hang on. Fusion doesn't lessen choices. If party rules were equal and a
DFLer sought the Green Party endorsement, the Green party endorsers could
chose the DFLer or someone else. If your premise
. Silenced
there, we have to speak out and act and legislate where we can. Cities
have more freedom than the higher levels of govt; we have begin here.
--David Shove
Roseville
--
City Council votes 7-1 against USA Patriot Act
Oakland, spurred by fears of civil rights violations, is largest
For all who were wondering or hoping (one way or the other):
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:19:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Cameron A. Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Cameron A. Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Major Party Status Retained
I just got the word.
The
oops
signed
David Shove
Roseville
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, David Shove wrote:
For all who were wondering or hoping (one way or the other):
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:19:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Cameron A. Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Cameron
it. It thinks it can just wait around, uninvitingly, and the prodigal
party will come back to Broken Wing MN with its tail between its legs.
Having abandoned hope in favor of fear, the DFL will never understand
Green motives.
David Shove
Roseville
___
Minneapolis
, printers, painters, electrical workers, autoworkers,
teachers, etc) would support candidates that belong to a Party that has
shown a committment to their issues.
--David Shove
Roseville
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E
.
How do you know this?
--David Shove
Roseville
___
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... but we KNOW it never does that (sponsors would never stand
for it) so
Public service ad:
This is your brain -- O
This is your brain on TV -- .
--David Shove
Roseville (surrounded on all sides by Mpls TV)
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused
the rumor that they might win big $$$ in a pending
class action suit. Rybek might then find time for them.
--David Shove
___
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, except of course
the well-placed developers and Ouija Board officials, all our income,
house, car, clothes, food, valuable baseball cards, etc -- but we all go
smiling to the poorhouse knowing that not one red cent of it went to a
councilperson.
--David Shove
Roseville
TEMPORARY REMINDER:
1. Send
for everyone else.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Fredric Markus wrote:
Kevin Diaz' article in today's Star Tribune gives the gist of HUD's
backpedaling on moneys already committed to this fiscal year's budget
for MPHA.$1.5 million erased from the current operating subsidy creates
AND ZIMMERMANN!!!
--David Shove
Roseville
Terry Erickson
Whittier
- Original Message -
From: Michael Atherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Minneapolis Issues' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'R.T. Rybak'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Mpls] open letter to our
of the SUV.
--David Shove
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Victoria Heller wrote:
It's not the vehicle that you object to - it's the TOTAL consumption of
gasoline.
A person with an SUV who drives 2,000 miles per year is more earth
friendly than a person in a Jetta who drives 15,000 miles per year
On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, Melendez, Brian wrote:
the DFL Party (over the scheduling of the endorsing convention).
I respectfully suggest that Dyna's style is more Dyna style than it is
DFL style.
Dynasty?
--David Shove
Roseville
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2
to override a mayoral veto.
--David Shove
Roseville
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:40:43 -0600
From: Andy Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Personal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: This week on NOW with Bill Moyers
Friends, if you missed this program tonight, you missed
in every where great or small
I have a dream
--David Shove
Roseville
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Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E
election.
David Shove
Roseville
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:13:49 -0600
From: Erik Schimek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [GPM] Ely anti-war resolution
A friend informed me that the Ely city council passed an Anti-War
resolution this evening. To the best of my
often.
Mpls should be actively fostering *small business* and *co-ops* run by
non-rich citizens.
--David Shove
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Minneapolis Issues Forum
before ALL the cops were enforcing the
most decorous polite behavior on ALL other cops?
If brutality anywhere could mean the loss of his/her job, how long until
Mpls had the best police force on earth?
--David Shove
Roseville
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Steve Brandt wrote:
Steve Brandt: I believe
of the state to low wage states
or third world countries via big businesses, or staying right here with
small businesses and co-ops?
It's time to change the paradigm. Small is beautiful.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Victoria Heller wrote:
Target, after all, was built the way most
Were Abe Lincoln to come to 2003 Mpls:
where would he go?
what would he do?
what would he think?
how would he write it up?
--David Shove
roseville
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frozen for the great day (perhaps after they
leave office) when their consciences can wake up and be cured.
City Council: It's late - do you know where your ethics are?
--David Shove
Roseville
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On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, David Brauer wrote:
I also want to briefly respond to David Shove:
Those who argue that graffiti should be tolerated because billboards are
subscribe to the eye for an eye ethos (literally), that I think comes up
short. There are many of us who hate billboards
[computer glitch forced premature send just now]
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003, David Brauer wrote:
I also want to briefly respond to David Shove:
Those who argue that graffiti should be tolerated because billboards are
subscribe to the eye for an eye ethos (literally), that I think comes up
short
bigger backsides to protect.
(When they turn the other cheek, it's something to behold).
--David Shove
Roseville
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Minneapolis Issues Forum
are we waiting for?
--David Shove
Roseville
On Mon, 24 Mar 2003, Chris Johnson wrote:
Jim Mork wrote:
Pick up North Oaks or Fridley and move them 500 miles north and what
WOULD be the attraction of living either place? None. The SOLE reason
that they attract the people who live
I don't often celebrate the Mpls City Council majority.
But I do this time.
HUZZAH! HUZZAH! HUZZAH!
More power to this group and this precedent.
Power to resisting cities!
Power to the (local) people!
--David Shove
Roseville
On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, ken bradley wrote:
Hello Minneapolis Folks
Jay
What brand of anti-freeze?
Have you seen the Playboy AntiFreeze Highball Book ($24.95 hard, $8.95
pb)?
I haven't, but when I do I mean to send a copy to Bush.
David Shove
Roseville
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Jay Clark wrote:
You could also take my approach and lie. The last time I had
.
--David Shove
Roseville
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Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic
reservation in MN, to be called Targetville,
where they can try to make each other do all the work, so they can sit
around all day and night making snide remarks about the servant problem.
They deserve each other, and it's the least we can do for them.
--
David Shove
Roseville
TEMPORARY REMINDER:
1
So who are the possible candidates to replace RT?
DFL, Green, GOP, Independent, Libertarian...
Starting the talk now would put pressure on RT, let lots of candidates
come forward, and give people lots of time to assess them. Make democracy
work.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003
.
A city that's fun to live in, not boring boxes.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Connie Beckers wrote:
I agree -- I don't like the idea of the conglomerate forcing the small
business owner out and if Target can't turn a profit there, how will Cub?
Besides, part of what I enjoy
I propose putting rods on all the seats of power. That way they can't fall
asleep there anymore, and they will be encouraged to move on and do some
real work. If not they could always be beaten, humiliated, pepper-sprayed,
stepped on, kicked, etc etc until they get the message.
--David Shove
White racism is never having to say you're sorry.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The lack of empathy on this list for the family who attended Market
Bar-B-Que, and the urge to rationalize and otherwise excuse the behavior of the
people
who served
of disappointed people pour into Mpls to find somewhere that
makes their mayors look like Solomon. You think YOU have a disappointing
mayor??? Well, let us tell you... could be the theme.
I know I'd visit.
--David Shove
Roseville
Re: [Mpls] Mayor Rybak needs to do some explaining
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 [EMAIL
proved futile.
--David Shove
Roseville
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2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject
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Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Steve Brandt wrote:
Do anyone else have suggestions for how to fend off fish-hungry
raccoons?
Pronto-Pups. One PP and the raccoon will never return. Trust me.
--David Shove
Roseville
TEMPORARY REMINDER:
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2. If you don't
are they? For that matter, of what
value are any of us lesser-moneyed rabble? We have played the capitalist
game and, let's face it, failed. We are worthless. Our only way to redeem
ourselves is to render up what little we have to God's appointed people,
the Truly Rich.
--David Shove
Roseville
TEMPORARY REMINDER:
1
Peter
You are under the mistaken impression that this government exists to serve
the citizens.
It is, rather, a game in which the rich see how much they can take from
the rest of us before we walk away from their game.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Peter T Schmitz wrote:
If I'm
I think ALL the Mpls cops should be required to live in Mpls as a
condition of employment by Mpls.
If they want to live in Edina, let them cop in Edina.
Why pay to be colonized by absentee-living cops?
No residence, no job.
--David Shove
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, McGreevy, James A., III wrote
within the city.
Carpetbagger cops.
Time to do whatever it takes at all levels to change the law back.
No way should our (public) servants be our masters. A seed of arrogance
which has blossomed into chronic police brutality.
Who do they think they are?
--David Shove
Roseville
REMINDERS:
1
there isn't a class war - as they wage it.
The ruling class says there is no ruling class - as it pigs out in more
and more wealth stolen from all the rest of us.
Well, we can either sit back quietly and let them do it, or fight.
--David Shove
Roseville
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated
This is exactly the point.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, David Brauer wrote:
If the date were changed to 1964, the location to Mississippi,
and the race of the new school superintendent to Black
and the race of the community leaders to White this would
look a lot like
to meet all eventualities? If you're rich you
can do this. The rest of us are not so lucky.
--David Shove
Roseville
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2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait
billionaires (eg
the Wal+Mart family). Time to stop sacrificing to the Horatio Alger idea
that it's best to have a few get super-rich while all the rest of us sink
slowly into poverty (eg cuts in schools and libraries, less health
insurance and pensions, longer working hours).
--David Shove
there will be a free
ride for any white male whatsoever, no questions asked. That's the way
they like it, white power forever.
--David Shove
Roseville
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Another sell out, agreed.
All too common, probably more common than serving the people.
Every betrayal, every promise broken, degrades the community.
When they betray us, we have to kick them out.
So, NOW, who is going to step forward to RUN AGAINST RYBEK???
--David Shove
Roseville
On Fri
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Tim Bonham wrote:
But is that enough, Andy?
Shouldn't they also require any new superintendents to also swear under
oath that they are not now and have never been members of any Chamber
of Commerce?
It would be a step in the right direction.
--David Shove
Roseville
, and cost all the rest of us collectivley much more time and
gas. What false economist dreamed this one up?
Privatizing plowing is just about as stupid.
Both are capitalist individualism and shortsightedness run amok.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Mark Snyder wrote:
On 10/18/03
.
And DemHacks wonder why we Greens don't cozy up to them every presidential
election. Could it be...experience?
--David Shove
Roseville
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jesus is justly revered for any number of His works but come on;
administration?
The guy hasn't showed up on time in over two thousand years!
Hey, He doesn't have to - He's The Boss's Son.
--David Shove
Roseville
wants (lots!) but never even one for me.
Well that's bad enough but now my problem is that two days ago when we
were out he ran off into the forest and I can't find him. It would help me
a lot if I knew, if an imaginary dog barks in the forest, is there a
sound?
--David Shove
perplexed
And, libraries provide generally FREE MEETING ROOMS for community events.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Becker wrote:
Victoria Heller wrote:
I think it's because books, music, video are becoming virtually free,
available anytime, anywhere -- thanks to cutting edge
Aaron
Good point. What is common to both is deference to a higher power. The
higher the power, the more deference. People higher in the social
hierarchy are to be given the benefit of every doubt; those lower, the
burden of every doubt. Call it e-hierarchy.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Mon, 17
that the only issue for the City Council in St. Paul will surround
some smaller financial contribution and zoning. But that's only if they
decide to come to St. Paul.
--fwd by David Shove
Roseville
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before
to the people, less so to the special interests.
The government exists for OUR sake, not for the sake of a few
self-interested incumbents.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Ken Karla wrote:
The main problem writers on this issue have talked about is geographic
chunks: districts
and community wherever it goes. Do not buy from Wal-Mart. Best
if it were not in Mpls/MN at all.
Bust Wal-Mart, FTAA, NAFTA, WTO, all big corporations. Make our city and
state a SMALL BUSINESS/CO-OP state. Tell the big corps to take a hike.
--David Shove
Roseville
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has
are long gone, the DFL still wants to live
off its old reputation, perhaps the better to fool us as it cuts our
services and loads up on corporate cash.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Dennis Plante wrote:
My wife and I greatly enjoy the movie Bugs Life. In particular, one scene
very
as poster people to sic soulless big boxes and
billionaire predator families on us. Clever and heartless.
This is a battle for the soul of Minneapolis. Imagine lots more freeways
and big boxes and huge parking lots. Imagine your favorite little
businesses closing. Like it?
--David Shove
Roseville
On Tue
...to each their own.
Almost as much fun as a week in Omaha!
(Second prize is two weeks in Omaha)
--David Shove
Roseville
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Yeah, who wants peace crammed down their throats?
--David Shove
Roseville
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Michael Atherton wrote:
I just received a flyer in my neighborhood
paper advertising the Minneapolis public
elementary school in my area. I was shocked
to find that the school is associated
Michael
What is your position on JROTC - Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps -
in the public schools, directed by the military, but financed in part by
city property taxes?
That's the situation in St Paul (and many other cities in the US).
--David Shove
Roseville
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Michael
forever.
True. That's how I was raised by the talking kangapoodles on my home
planet.
--David Shove
Roseville
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We should not overlook doghouses - large ones for adults, smaller ones for
children. Unfortunately this causes homeless dogs, which may be a problem
of more concern.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
With bridge rods preventing people who are homeless
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Michael Atherton wrote:
David Shove wrote:
What is your position on JROTC - Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps -
in the public schools, directed by the military, but financed in part by
city property taxes?
I believe that if it is included along with a choice
said only Catholics, or Protestants, or whites, shall be full
citizens? We'd condemn it roundly and repeatedly. We should do the same
toward Israel as long as it remains Zionist. Not extending equal
citizenship to Palestinians is wrong.
--David Shove
Roseville
Before you have the nerve
stop because of course they lose
interest rapidly as a post re-affirms the same point a number of times.
If you still haven't gotten it I'll be happy to repeat myself until you
do, or maybe SHOUT IN CAPS to help you understand.
Repetitionless in Roseville,
David Shove
REMINDERS:
1. Think
issues, and to build trust and name
recognition so they have a good chance of being elected.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Peter T Schmitz wrote:
Margaret Hastings Reports: I got an off post comment that David Feldman
no longer is with the mayor's
office and the poster assumed
.
The outrageous election referred to here is just one more example of what
we have to fight. All of it usual, all of it wrong.
--David Shove
Roseville
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, John Erwin wrote:
Dear List Readers,
As an elected official I can not believe what happened at the Park Board
meeting
the Greens. I'll bet if it were sold this way it would pass. Why have
illusions? Greens will just have to figure out some way to beat this new
tactic.
--David Shove
roseville
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
before continuing
all want what's best for everyone.
So we can all go back to sleep. Perhaps in a park - if we can find one in
the future.
--David Shove
Roseville
-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:53:50 -0600
From: John Erwin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Mpls
across the floor... GB
Shaw?
And now oil be going.
--David Shove
Roseville
REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
before continuing it on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
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