, Why Do We Do It?
I'm your huckleberry…
Shook
*From:* James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2008 3:57 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Why Ed does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Ed, if I thought
you
,Security+,Network+,CCA
Phone: 401-639-3505
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:54 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog
]
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:54 AM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:06 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
16:59 hrs
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
On 18 Aug 2008 at 15:38, Christopher J. Bosak wrote:
And I thought I was the only one who carried on this list.
If I´m ever in SC, I´ll have to look you up as well.
Geeks With Guns
http://www.geekswithguns.com/
--
Angus
Towers
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:54 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
I have to say this discussion has brightened my day up no end (and that
of my co-workers). The thought of a bunch of gun-toting Americans
On 19 Aug 2008 at 9:53, James Rankin wrote:
I have to say this discussion has brightened my day up no end (and that of
my co-workers). The thought of a bunch of gun-toting Americans cleaning all
the tracksuit-wearing hoodies out of our local shopping centres and bus
stations with military
on the GMAT, and
my Master’s classes start on the 25th.
J
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 18 August 2008 12:27 AM
To: NT
It was Texas, where the definition of an Engineer is defined by law. Or
that was the story USA Today printed.
From: Jon Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 23:05 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Is it my memory going bad
the definition of an Engineer is defined by law. Or
that was the story USA Today printed.
*From:* Jon Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2008 23:05 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Is it my memory going bad or wasn't Network
Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2008 23:05 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Is it my memory going bad or wasn't Network Engineer a few years back in
some state not allowed as a title as the state in question did not have a
test
and everyone has access. Full inclusion over
exclusion. I want to make their jobs better.
But I'm an old fart...
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 9:12 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
To add my two cents worth
as hard as they should.
I, for one, am definitely off to the States, even if it's just for the
sake of my aura.
Olly
From: Holstrom, Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 August 2008 15:49
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I do it for love and money
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* 18 August 2008 15:49
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I do it for love and money and responsibility.
This is a second career for me, retired as a speechwriter 10 years ago. I
have been a sysadmin (one-man-shop) for two different
tempted by Canada. If our parents weren't a factor then it would already
been done.
Olly
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 August 2008 16:23
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Yes emigration is definitely becoming my only hope here in the UK
: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:26 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
James,
Do it mate. I'm on the south coast, two kids, usual kinda life etc. I
agree with everything you said particularly the respect within society
(though with the demands put on everyone
then it would already been done.
Olly
*From:* James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* 18 August 2008 16:23
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Yes emigration is definitely becoming my only hope here in the UK, what
with the ever-increasing mortgage
]
*Sent:* 18 August 2008 16:23
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Yes emigration is definitely becoming my only hope here in the UK, what
with the ever-increasing mortgage on my 2-bedroom semi with a square yard of
garden, the rocketing price of food and beer
What are hoodies/chavs?
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http
We have something similar in the states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chavs
- Original Message -
From: Kim Longenbaugh
To: NT System Admin Issues
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
What are hoodies/chavs
: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
What are hoodies/chavs?
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security
System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
What are hoodies/chavs?
--
From: James Rankin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:42 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject
On 16 Aug 2008 at 23:04, Jon Harris wrote:
Is it my memory going bad or wasn't Network Engineer a few years back in
some state not allowed as a title as the state in question did not have
a test to Certify someone with that knowledge?Don't ask me the state
but I think it was in the south
Ah, them. Yep, Glock's are good.
From: James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:21 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
They are called hood rats here. We have them too but we can defend
ourselves
Sometimes I read the most redonkulous stuff on tech lists.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Oliver Marshall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The general stereo-type is that someone wearing a hoodie will knife
you as soon as look at you.
--
ME2
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a
: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
Ah, them. Yep, Glock's are good.
From: James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:21 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
They are called hood rats here. We have them too
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
A common mistake. If they are within 21 feet of you, it will be a tie between
their knife and your Glock. In case of a tie, you lose. Not a good result.
And that is if you are ready for an attack. In most cases, your are the
ambushee, and do not know you that you
.
Though, if I am ever in SC maybe I will have to look you up.
- Original Message -
From: Steve Kelsay
To: NT System Admin Issues
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
A common mistake. If they are within 21 feet of you, it will be a tie
between
Please do. I can reserve the Qualification bay and bring some weapons.
You supply the coffee.
From: Jonathan Link [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 15:38 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
You're a daisy if you do.
On 8/18/08, James
Why Ed does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Ed, if I thought you
weren't my friend... I just don't think I could bear it!
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Link
To: NT System Admin Issues
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do
I'm your huckleberry...
Shook
From: James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Why Ed does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Ed, if I thought you
weren't my friend... I just don't think I
PROTECTED]
From: Andy Shook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I'm your huckleberry...
Shook
From: James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:57 PM
To: NT System Admin
From: Andy Shook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:07 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I'm your huckleberry...
Shook
From: James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 3:57 PM
: Steve Kelsay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 14:56 hrs
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
Please do. I can reserve the Qualification bay and bring some weapons. You
supply the coffee.
From: Jonathan Link [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2008 14:49 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
Ah, them. Yep, Glock's are good.
--
*From:* James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2008 12:21 PM
*To:* NT System Admin
course)
*From:* Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Monday, August 18, 2008 14:49 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
Ah, them. Yep, Glock's are good.
--
*From:* James Kerr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent
: 18 August 2008 15:49
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I do it for love and money and responsibility.
This is a second career for me, retired as a speechwriter 10 years ago. I
have been a sysadmin (one-man-shop) for two different organizations ever
since. I
Yep. Actually ANY firearms training course is fine with Florida.
NRA basic, Military training, 4H, pretty near anything.
From: Jon Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 16:50 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
I wonder it your coarse
Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
Did I get involved with this discussion?
BTW my guns are bigger than yours. ( cause I am ex military) I have shot
things that put big holes in houses and other concrete structures. Try
out a M240 Grenade Launcher and a M249SAW LAW, AT4, MG60 SKS, AK
, and the SC SLED Concealable weapons course)
From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 14:49 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
Ah, them. Yep, Glock's are good.
From: James Kerr
: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
A common mistake. If they are within 21 feet of you, it will be a tie
between their knife and your Glock. In case of a tie, you lose. Not a good
result. And that is if you are ready for an attack. In most cases, your are
the ambushee, and do not know you that you
+1 for four deuce...
Dave Lum
From: Steve Kelsay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I was a tanker and 10th SF group.
M48 through M1s, CEVs (165mm) Sheridans, etc.
Mortars, 60mm through 4.2 inch.
40 pound
On 18 Aug 2008 at 15:38, Christopher J. Bosak wrote:
And I thought I was the only one who carried on this list.
If I´m ever in SC, I´ll have to look you up as well.
Geeks With Guns
http://www.geekswithguns.com/
--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
On 18 Aug 2008 at 13:56, Kurt Buff wrote:
Which is why, of course, you need one of these:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/9080/
*_Aluminum_* chain mail ??? Why bother ??
--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps, Tucson, Arizona
1-520-290-5038
+---+
~
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Angus Scott-Fleming
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 18 Aug 2008 at 13:56, Kurt Buff wrote:
Which is why, of course, you need one of these:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/9080/
*_Aluminum_* chain mail ??? Why bother ??
Because it'll stop a moron with
Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
On 18 Aug 2008 at 15:38, Christopher J. Bosak wrote:
And I thought I was the only one who carried on this list.
If I´m ever in SC, I´ll have to look you up as well.
Geeks With Guns
http://www.geekswithguns.com/
--
Angus Scott-Fleming
GeoApps
: Now OT (RE: So, Why Do We Do It?)
+1 for four deuce...
Dave Lum
From: Steve Kelsay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I was a tanker and 10th SF group.
M48 through M1s, CEVs (165mm
It's aluminum and open rings so 'probably'.
Aluminum being soft doesn't always hold it's form under weight and
motion that chain mail gets while being worn so links would have to be
checked regularly and maintained. It's also open links, not welded or
riveted links so that increases it's 'wear'
Well, it certainly won't stop an unbated foil, nor probably an epee,
but against the usual street punk with a knife, I rather have it than
not.
If I were actually serious, rather than playing here on the list, I'd
prefer a lighter arrangement - overlapping ceramic disks, strung on
titanium wire,
-I don't care, so long as you
don't ask me to work 60 hours a week for 40-hour pay.
From: Jon Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:05 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Is it my memory going bad or wasn't Network Engineer a few years
From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 18 August 2008 12:27 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
I'm not so much concerned about the specific titles used as I am about
sysadmins, as a group, being paid well for their expertise and time. Call me
Master's classes start on the 25th.
:)
From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 8:13 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 18 August 2008 12:27 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
From: John Hornbuckle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 18 August 2008 10:45 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: So, Why Do We Do It?
When I look at the number of IT people I know-really good people with great
expertise-who put in a ton of hours for mediocre pay, I can't help
For me part of it is just loving what I do and a push to have everything
work flawlessly. I regularly work 50-60 hours a week and on salary. If I
work a Saturday or Sunday I get that comped. That being said I also wonder
why I do so much without proper compensation.
I live in the country on 1.5
For me, it was definitely both the love of the tech, plus the freedom that
consulting gave - flexible schedule, can go pick up the drycleaning or
whatnot, something different every day. Lately though, my outfit has gotten
really regimented and the scheduling pretty tight, so I'm just not feeling
into a project they're going to bill
for it. But in IT it seems like we sell ourselves short, and work for free an
awful lot.
From: Mike Sullivan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 2:55 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
For me part
We're geeks.
That carries a lot of freight, but let's start with a few things I've noticed:
1) geeks tend to like to concentrate on problem solving, and work
through problems to their own satisfaction, though not necessarily to
completion.
2) geeks tend to devalue personal interaction on the
John, I know for me it is that in 1 year, 10 months, and roughly 2 weeks I
get to retire and go work for a company that will hopefully pay me better or
not treat me like dirt simply because I try and save a bunch of (l)users
from stupid mistakes. I am also tired of the after hours work for
What you say seems to ring true. I came over to being a computer person
because I got tired of having my hands tied about fixing things I saw were
wrong. When you start as a regulator of a highly regulated industry and see
people lying to stop things that should not have been stopped and you can
Jon, you raise a lot of great points here.
I have to ask, aside from WHY we do it, what do we think we are?
Are we more like lawyers or accountants - or more like electricians or
plumbers? Are we white-collar professionals, or blue-collar hourly workers?
If we are more like lawers, then what?
I suspect that if more of us were hourly, weeks would rarely exceed 40 hours!
From: Jon Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:22 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
John, I know for me it is that in 1 year, 10 months, and roughly 2
I don't know about your place of work but part of my reason for counting the
days is that the State of Florida has no controls in place, or at least none
I have found that prevents abuse. I know a lot of it is in-born in me. I
hate leaving a job undone or unfinished. My boss is aware of that
PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:22 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
John, I know for me it is that in 1 year, 10 months, and roughly 2 weeks I
get to retire and go work for a company that will hopefully pay me better or
not treat me like dirt
movements
towards this in the past, but they don't seem to have picked up any steam.
From: Durf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:48 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Jon, you raise a lot of great points here.
I have to ask, aside from WHY
!
*From:* Jon Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Saturday, August 16, 2008 10:22 PM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
John, I know for me it is that in 1 year, 10 months, and roughly 2 weeks I
get to retire and go work for a company that will hopefully pay
Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: So, Why Do We Do It?
Jon, you raise a lot of great points here.
I have to ask, aside from WHY we do it, what do we think we are?
Are we more like lawyers or accountants - or more like electricians or
plumbers? Are we white-collar professionals, or blue-collar
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