Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote: Øyvind Harboe wrote: I'm thinking a bit about how I can draw up some graphs on this... Graphing number of commits is easy, but graphing the review is difficult. Before we got Gerrit going I decided that I could no longer spend time submitting patches to the official repository, much as I wanted to. Some graphing I've been thinking about: - plot a number that shows the redundancy in maintainers. I.e. are we relying on a single maintainer or are there multiple maintainers who commit/submit patches? Plot standard deviation of % of commits grouped into maintainers. Do this per week to show how the project develops. - plot # of lines of code / time committed. -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Øyvind Harboe wrote: Some graphing I've been thinking about: - plot a number that shows the redundancy in maintainers. I.e. are we relying on a single maintainer or are there multiple maintainers I've so far taken infinitely many more commits from Gerrit into openocd.git than before. Much more effort to deal with patch files. Committed LOC is a function of review, but not completely accurate, since review unfortunately sometimes also leads to nothing. //Peter ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote: Øyvind Harboe wrote: Some graphing I've been thinking about: - plot a number that shows the redundancy in maintainers. I.e. are we relying on a single maintainer or are there multiple maintainers I've so far taken infinitely many more commits from Gerrit into openocd.git than before. Much more effort to deal with patch files. Ca. 2 weeks ago, I decided I could no longer commit patches and stopped doing so. Nobody else stepped up. This is why Gerrit forced itself forward as the only viable solution. Don't think that I didn't notice that you have pushed infinitely many more patches to the repository than before! :-) -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
openocd-development-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote: Jon Povey wrote: this additional barrier to contributing does put me and others off contributing in future. Using Git is also a barrier for some, perhaps even for many. Gerrit is new, so sure there will be resistance. Maybe sometime it will be just as common as Git itself. I think the learning curve for Git is much steeper than for Gerrit. For sure. But I've had to learn git already for other reasons :) Please look at the updated HACKING file, or my previous email, for an overview of the quick and simple steps to use Gerrit: You need an OpenID from somewhere (let me know if you want one from me) You need to register on a web page and pick a username You need to set an HTTP password or upload a public SSH key The above takes not two minutes. A bit of a simplification, you also need to do the git-side setup, and have the general slowdown of fumbling around a bit until you get the idea of the new workflow. But not a huge amount of work, I agree. An interesting fact is that in the project where I've seen Gerrit introduced there were several new contributors sending commits, who had previously never been seen on the mailing list. I was surprised, but in a good way! There will be new contributors coming along to projects all the time, of course.. Though I suppose maybe the gerrit way of doing things could be preferable to some as it involves less human interaction and discussion on mailing lists, maybe for people who are wary of getting flamed for incorrect email setup (or signatures - sorry!) or who are not confident in their English. Great if gerrit works well for OpenOCD, I hope it does. I just wanted to make the point that it does involve some extra hassle to get started contributing, and that extra barrier and possible negative effects did not seem to have been mentioned. Most of the discussion seemed to be maintainers or energetic contributors enthusing about how jazzy gerrit was going to be. -- Jon Povey jon.po...@racelogic.co.uk Racelogic is a limited company registered in England. Registered number 2743719 . Registered Office Unit 10, Swan Business Centre, Osier Way, Buckingham, Bucks, MK18 1TB . The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Racelogic Ltd for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email so that the sender's address records can be corrected. The views expressed by the sender of this communication do not necessarily represent those of Racelogic Ltd. Please note that Racelogic reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications passing through its network ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Øyvind Harboe wrote: If you want to spend the time taking other people's patches and pushing them to Gerrit so they don't have to, go right ahead. Obviously not if I am not in a hurry to take the time to setup for gerrit even for myself. Don't think the sarcasm was helpful there. We're starting to gather data that we're getting *more* and *better* patches submitted to the Git repository. We also see that the less active maintainers are now reviewing and submitting to the repository. That's great if it ends up being a good thing for the project when hindsight becomes available. I hope it does. -- Jon Povey jon.po...@racelogic.co.uk Racelogic is a limited company registered in England. Registered number 2743719 . Registered Office Unit 10, Swan Business Centre, Osier Way, Buckingham, Bucks, MK18 1TB . The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Racelogic Ltd for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email so that the sender's address records can be corrected. The views expressed by the sender of this communication do not necessarily represent those of Racelogic Ltd. Please note that Racelogic reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications passing through its network ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Actually, in some ways nothing has changed when we switched to Gerrit. Before Gerrit, OpenOCD maintainers had stopped lifting patches into git and now we don't lift them into Gerrit. Same thing, except with Gerrit contributors (or anyone) have the option of lifting patches into Gerrit themselves. That's great if it ends up being a good thing for the project when hindsight becomes available. I hope it does. We decided to switch to Gerrit only after catastrophic failure of the existing process. I stopped submitting patches for two weeks and nobody else submitted. Clearly the process was broken. Things have improved infinitely after we introduced Gerrit. Patches are now being submitted again. -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:18:18 +0200 Peter Stuge pe...@stuge.se wrote: You need an OpenID from somewhere (let me know if you want one from me) You need to register on a web page and pick a username You need to set an HTTP password or upload a public SSH key The above takes not two minutes. If you have no idea what OpenID is, have only a basic understanding of git and want to first understand what you are doing to avoid stupid mistakes, then it takes maybe an hour or two to get up and working. But i have to say, comparing patch submission with gerrit and w/o, i think that gerrit is by far superior to anything i've seen until now. Yes, the first patch takes quite a bit of time. But then it's just like pushing patches to an upstream repo. And resubmitting patches is damn easy and patch managment even more so. That said, i like gerrit, but dont underestimate the first hurdle to get it working. Attila Kinali -- The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap -- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
What exactly is checked by jenkins currently? I suggest at least one build with the default ./configure (no options) and one with as many ./configure options enabled as is possible on the build host. It's very early days still and we're still sorting out problems. We have ambitions to do lots of testing automatically, including everything you mentioned. Definitely we want -Werror and we already do. We're also considering adding clang static analysis, but that's some ways off still. -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Please read HACKING and post to Gerrit. Thanks! -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
On 2011-10-19 19:50, Øyvind Harboe wrote: Please read HACKING and post to Gerrit. Sorry, I don't have time to do so because: 1. The patch is trivial 2. I use git in Linux hosted in VitualBox, where emailing patches kinda does not work 3. My knowledge of Linux and Git is minimal So basically I can say that Gerrit posting would NOT work in my environment without some serious effort, while you can just accept that trivial patch or post it there in two seconds. I have got a lot on my head now and no time to spare. Make Gerrit accept patches via web interface (I see no reason why it shouldn't allow to do so as it's web based) and I'll be happy to post anything there - now it's just like a stone wall for me with milions of steps required to send a patch once a year. For me - a user who sometimes patches simple stuff or adds config files - Gerrit is an obstacle, nothing more. Sorry for the inconvenience. 4\/3!! ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
If you don't have time to work on OpenOCD, then I don't have any problems with that. The world is full of smart people who could have, but don't have time to, contribute to OpenOCD. If you do want to spend some time on OpenOCD, then I urge you to have a look at what Gerrit+Jenkins does for the community. Some of the things that Gerrit+Jenkins does for us: - Contributors, rather than maintainers will do all the work of formulating patches and serving them on a silver platter to the maintainers. - Jenkins will build and check your patch for warnings. If you generate warnings in some of the configurations that Jenkins checks for, you will get an email w/info about that. No other humans will waste time on your patch before it is ready and clean of all nits(warnings, whitespace errors, etc.). - It makes it possible for us to organise the patches, keep track of improved version of patches, etc. and decide when to submit them to the repository with a click of a button. I don't think the maintainers will be accepting or reviewing patches that are not submitted to Gerrit anymore. If this means that we loose those contributors who can't or won't take time time to learn Git and how to configure and us Gerrit, then that's really a non-issue, because maintainers are not going to spend their time to save the contributors this effort. -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Freddie Chopin wrote: Please read HACKING and post to Gerrit. I second this. Sorry, I don't have time to do so because: Sorry, noone has time to deal with your patch. 1. The patch is trivial It might seem so, but actually it's not. It has multiple logical changes combined in a single commit, which is no good. Please separate the return error into it's own commit, with it's own clear commit message about how and why. 2. I use git in Linux hosted in VitualBox, where emailing patches kinda does not work Øyvind could have written push instead of post, since commits go to Gerrit using git push, and not email. It's clear that you misunderstood this, and it's clear that you didn't even look into how commits would be sent to Gerrit, before arguing that you do not have time to do so because it is too complicated. Your VM needs network access. I guess it has that. On another note, it's absolutely not neccessary for you to work with OpenOCD source code in any particular operating system. If your prefered environment is Windows then Git can perform line ending translation for you, allowing you to use any Windows tools to work with any project codebase. 3. My knowledge of Linux and Git is minimal That's not a problem. If your willingness to gain knowledge of Git is also minimal, *that* is a big problem, since you can notwork efficiently within the project then. Perhaps you realize that learning a little about Git makes a huge difference in productivity. It's of course impossible to discuss this with someone if they have already decided that they hate Git (you might be surprised how common this is) or that they otherwise don't want to learn the tool. I would see OpenOCD as an opportunity to learn more about Git, and I would be happy that I took the opportunity, since I can benefit from it also outside of OpenOCD. If you run into trouble then please do ask - there are several on the mailing list who are happy to help. So basically I can say that Gerrit posting would NOT work in my environment without some serious effort, The effort in all it's seriousness is documented in HACKING. But here are the steps again, summarized for your convenience: * acquiring any OpenID account (let me know if you can't get one) * registering on the Gerrit website * configuring a username on Gerrit website * (optional) uploading a public ssh key on Gerrit website * adding the commit hook in your local repo * re-committing your change (to get the Change-Id) * git config remote.origin.url with ssh or http URL to Gerrit * git push The next time you've made a commit you run git push again, to send commit(s) to Gerrit. I am confident that this is quite significantly simpler than whatever workflow you currently use with patch files and email software. while you can just accept that trivial patch or post it there in two seconds. Except that you can not get feedback then. Since it is your patch it is you who needs to push it to Gerrit. I have got a lot on my head now and no time to spare. Yeah, it takes time to learn tools, but Gerrit is really not your enemy. Make Gerrit accept patches via web interface (I see no reason why it shouldn't allow to do so as it's web based) IMO that would be stupid. You already have the commit in Git, so it is really impossible to have a simpler interface than git push. and I'll be happy to post anything there - now it's just like a stone wall for me with milions of steps required See above, and HACKING, for the million steps that are required. to send a patch once a year. Next year you do it with one command. Since your VM can not send email I know that you are not using git send-email, which would be similarly simple as git push to Gerrit; you must be creating patch files, and sending them manually in email. This is not efficient. There's really no reason to be inefficient about something, even if you only do it once a year, especially when the knowledge that allows you to work more efficiently can benefit you for a whole year in between. For me - a user who sometimes patches simple stuff or adds config files - Gerrit is an obstacle, nothing more. I think you should look at how Gerrit actually works, and re-evaluate your position. Of course, being required to even think about a new tool is a slight inconvenience for a new contributor, but hopefully you can help document the process, or suggest simplifications, instead of only complaining about how difficult it is before you have any experience. On the flip side, the value of Gerrit is significant. Commits can very quickly and easily come into Gerrit and go out of Gerrit into the public openocd.git repo. (You may have noticed the command line interface via SSH that Gerrit offers.) It's also very easy to make detailed comments on commits. Øyvind mentioned that Gerrit also brings a bit of quality assurance, for free, without human interaction. The slight added inconvenience is instantly amortized by the
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
openocd-development-boun...@lists.berlios.de wrote: If you don't have time to work on OpenOCD, then I don't have any problems with that. The world is full of smart people who could have, but don't have time to, contribute to OpenOCD. [...] If this means that we loose those contributors who can't or won't take time time to learn Git and how to configure and us Gerrit, then that's really a non-issue, because maintainers are not going to spend their time to save the contributors this effort. This is an interesting point of view. I have no doubt that gerrit makes life easier for the maintainers, but there is the barrier of new thing to learn and setup hassle for a new contributor, vs the old system used by many projects of sending patches to a mailing list. You will lose some valuable contributions and contributors because of this. Also the apparent attitude of screw you, we don't care if it's hard, it makes our life easy is offputting. I have a few patches in OpenOCD and one bug I found the other day that I was thinking about working on and sending a patch for. But honestly, having to set up for gerrit workflow makes me less likely to do either. If OpenOCD suffers from a lack of maintainer time and effort but is overrun with enthusastic contributors, then the gerrit thing seems like a good idea. If on the other hand the maintainers are active and keen to encourage new contributors, and the project is suffering from lack of contributor effort, then it seems like it will not be good for project health. I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the two. This is intended to be an objective bit of third-party insight, I am not anti-gerrit - it seems like a nice tool. certainly I am a fan of CI. I apprecite OpenOCD, I'd like to see the project grow in scope and maturity, but this additional barrier to contributing does put me and others off contributing in future. -- Jon Povey jon.po...@racelogic.co.uk Racelogic is a limited company registered in England. Registered number 2743719 . Registered Office Unit 10, Swan Business Centre, Osier Way, Buckingham, Bucks, MK18 1TB . The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Racelogic Ltd for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email so that the sender's address records can be corrected. The views expressed by the sender of this communication do not necessarily represent those of Racelogic Ltd. Please note that Racelogic reserves the right to monitor e-mail communications passing through its network ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Jon Povey wrote: this additional barrier to contributing does put me and others off contributing in future. Using Git is also a barrier for some, perhaps even for many. Gerrit is new, so sure there will be resistance. Maybe sometime it will be just as common as Git itself. I think the learning curve for Git is much steeper than for Gerrit. Please look at the updated HACKING file, or my previous email, for an overview of the quick and simple steps to use Gerrit: You need an OpenID from somewhere (let me know if you want one from me) You need to register on a web page and pick a username You need to set an HTTP password or upload a public SSH key The above takes not two minutes. Once that has been done, git push on your command line or in your GUI sends commits to Gerrit. Setting up Gerrit is a one-time thing, and it allows much quicker workflow for you, other contributors, the reviewers and the maintainers. An interesting fact is that in the project where I've seen Gerrit introduced there were several new contributors sending commits, who had previously never been seen on the mailing list. I was surprised, but in a good way! //Peter ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
If you want to spend the time taking other people's patches and pushing them to Gerrit so they don't have to, go right ahead. You do not have to be an OpenOCD maintainer to do this, anyone can push anyones patches to Gerrit for review. I don't expect you to step up to take such a role, nor do I expect anyone else. Really this is the sort of work that you have to pay someone to do or you have to do it yourself. We're starting to gather data that we're getting *more* and *better* patches submitted to the Git repository. We also see that the less active maintainers are now reviewing and submitting to the repository. I'm thinking a bit about how I can draw up some graphs on this... -- Øyvind Harboe - Can Zylin Consulting help on your project? US toll free 1-866-980-3434 http://www.zylin.com/ ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
Re: [Openocd-development] [PATCH] Unused variables
Øyvind Harboe wrote: I'm thinking a bit about how I can draw up some graphs on this... Graphing number of commits is easy, but graphing the review is difficult. //Peter ___ Openocd-development mailing list Openocd-development@lists.berlios.de https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/openocd-development
