Title: SV: Oracle deal gag... but on a different note.
Please, drop this damn thread.
The list is obviosly not censured, just a bit sucky.
No one will wake up next to a swedish meatball smeared with cowberry jam and mashed potatoes..
Stop accusing people of being paranoid etc, it only floods
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Jay Armstrong wrote:
Joseph,
You see, Joseph, it's this kind of humor that makes people think of waking
up next to their favorite racehorse's head.
Not sure what your point is, here, pardner. After all, I was saying this
My point is that some slow people, like me,
on open products, or semi-open products like Orion.
Or Oracle... but wait, that might make the Oracle deal a win for Orion
users.
Yes, Karl and Magnus built a fabulous product, but where's the support
(documentation, help desk, etc)?
I've done well without it.
I am not applauding
products, or semi-open products like
Orion.
Or Oracle... but wait, that might make the Oracle deal a win for Orion
users.
Yes, Karl and Magnus built a fabulous product, but where's the support
(documentation, help desk, etc)?
I've done well without it.
I am not applauding
Their j2ee implementations seemed like a bunch of open source glued
together. Throw in the oddDuck idea of running ejb's inside the db
server and it's no wonder they threw it away. Perhaps because they
couldn't give it away.
_
Get your free E-mail at
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Jay Armstrong wrote:
Sure, I can understand this -- good thing we have orionsupport.com, which
isn't affiliated with Ironflare. This is why I've never been willing to
advertise anything on orionsupport, and why I'm not directly affiliated in
any way with Ironflare -
that
anyone that wants to can steal the software. For a small company and a
relatively inexpensive product you just have to hope that there are
enough honest customers out there to pay your bills. Fortunately it
looks like there are.
I don't understand why you think the Oracle deal is anything
Joseph B. Ottinger wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Jay Armstrong wrote:
[...]
Greetings,
I respectfully request that those carrying on the conspiracy thread of
discussion please take it off-list. It has comprised, I estimate, at
least 50% of the orion-interest list the past few days.
Thanks!
Joseph,
At 12:57 PM 6/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Jay Armstrong wrote:
Sure, I can understand this -- good thing we have orionsupport.com, which
isn't affiliated with Ironflare. This is why I've never been willing to
advertise anything on orionsupport, and why I'm not
kinda asking for it, but your credentials clearly show why
you're so paranoid and are on very, umm, thin ground when it comes to
mental well being.
We've all tried presenting the facts to you regarding the Oracle deal, but
all we seem to be getting in respose is a descent into your own personal
We've all tried presenting the facts to you regarding the Oracle deal, but
all we seem to be getting in respose is a descent into your own personal
madness. How about summing up the problems you have in a few short lines
that won't cause cynics like me to laugh or respond so unpleasantly?
Hani
On a different note concerning the Oracle deal:
I wasn't at JavaOne, but I've been reading all about it on the web. One
news story that I've seen a lot about is Larry Ellison and Bill Coleman's
little fight. Oracle has put Orion in the big leagues... I mean, Karl could
have produced all sorts
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
From: Jay Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
[...paranoia...]
Have you ever considered that maybe your communications are being
intercepted and preprocessed by a CIA computer? Do you hear clicking
noises
What is your point?
Johan
- Original Message -
From: Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
We've all tried presenting the facts to you regarding the Oracle deal,
but
all we seem
,
and a dump).
Who will handle this for Orion/Oracle? Karl and Magnus? They rarely
respond now, so don't you think they could get even more overwhelmed?
Please, point me to where Ellison talked about support.
Jay
At 09:32 AM 6/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
On a different note concerning the Oracle deal:
I
: RE: Oracle deal gag... but on a different note.
Nathan,
A lot of what you're saying is true. I acknowledge that Orion is
relatively fast and has some great features (like auto-reconfigure), but I
recall that Orion used to claim that it was the fastest J2EE product (or
something like
Mmmkay, this is a little late, but hey - when have I been known to shut
up?
On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Jay Armstrong wrote:
After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
(RE: Oracle deal) also went through fine, but none of them were critical
of Ironflare. In fact
,
Jay
--- Johan Fredriksson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is your point?
Johan
- Original Message -
From: Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
We've all tried presenting
?
Please, point me to where Ellison talked about support.
Jay
At 09:32 AM 6/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
On a different note concerning the Oracle deal:
I wasn't at JavaOne, but I've been reading all about it on the web. One
news story that I've seen a lot about is Larry Ellison and Bill
Enough!
-Original Message-
From: Johan Fredriksson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:40 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: Re: Oracle deal gag
What is your point?
Johan
- Original Message -
From: Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL
more overwhelmed?
Please, point me to where Ellison talked about support.
Heh, you haven't LOOKED at Oracle much, have you? They *already* have
support networks in place...
Jay
At 09:32 AM 6/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
On a different note concerning the Oracle deal:
I wasn't at JavaOne
Wow, I never realized engineers had become so immature!
Can we stop filling our mailboxes with junk? Get off the stupid list if
you're so unhappy! You have a choice! Stay on the boat and can it, or get
off the boat to something that will make you happier!
R
Robert S. Sfeir
Director of
.
Regards,
the elephantwalker
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jay Armstrong
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:22 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag... but on a different note.
Nathan,
A lot of what you're saying is true. I
reason why major
systems do not rely on open products, or semi-open products like Orion.
Or Oracle... but wait, that might make the Oracle deal a win for Orion
users.
Yes, Karl and Magnus built a fabulous product, but where's the support
(documentation, help desk, etc)?
I've done well without
PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of elephantwalker
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 11:53 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag... but on a different note.
J,
I am an oracle customer. All you have to do is call support, and they answer
questions about orion. They also have good
EW,
The message to which you replied has a slightly different title and is from
my alternate email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED], not [EMAIL PROTECTED]). It
went through just fine.
After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
(RE: Oracle deal) also went through
From: Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EW,
[snip]
After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
(RE: Oracle deal) also went through fine, but none of them were critical
of Ironflare. In fact, all of them either told me to shut up (Greg
Stickley and Hani Suleiman
Jay,
Might I say in advance that I've read your posts in the past and they are
good, however this one is severly off the mark and badly wrong in judgement.
After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
(RE: Oracle deal) also went through fine, but none of them
([EMAIL PROTECTED], not [EMAIL PROTECTED]). It
went through just fine.
After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
(RE: Oracle deal) also went through fine, but none of them were critical
of Ironflare. In fact, all of them either told me to shut up (Greg
Stickley
-Interest
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
EW,
The message to which you replied has a slightly different title and is from
my alternate email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED], not [EMAIL PROTECTED]). It
went through just fine.
After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
(RE
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jay Armstrong
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 12:54 PM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
Okay, EW. I'll agree that some things are apparently not getting through.
They can write a great J2EE product, but can't get
From: Jay Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
[...paranoia...]
Have you ever considered that maybe your communications are being
intercepted and preprocessed by a CIA computer? Do you hear clicking
noises every time you pick up the phone?
You have accidentally sumbled across The Swedish
...CLIP...
If it's a list problem, okay, but how can we possibly know? Time will
tell,...
...CLIP...
Since you are even able to say Time will tell why don't you just wait and
see if Ironflare's personality changes over time instead of assuming the
worst.
: do you
really think the CIA doesn't monitor the web?
Sorry about going off topic, but I'd like to avoid sarcasm and, please,
just address the facts about the Oracle deal.
At 02:30 PM 6/10/01 -0700, you wrote:
From: Jay Armstrong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
[...paranoia...]
Have you ever
Well, you're kinda asking for it, but your credentials clearly show why
you're so paranoid and are on very, umm, thin ground when it comes to
mental well being.
We've all tried presenting the facts to you regarding the Oracle deal, but
all we seem to be getting in respose is a descent into your
of hidden agenda and a master
scheme that involves fooling all of us hapless users, or exploiting us for
cheap labour or any such silliness. The Oracle deal is a good thing for
everyone, it's vindication for us all and proves for those who ever had
doubts that Orion is a serious product. Can we now get
-- Hani Suleiman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can we now get on with bitching about EJB 2.0 support and other
more...ahem...productive topics?
OK, let me start... I would like to begin ranting about how Orion does not yet
properly remove references in entity beans to child entities in EJB2.0 CMR
it.
Regards,
the elephantwalker
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phillip Ross
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:45 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
-- Hani Suleiman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can we now get on with bitching
Haha, I know... Hani just said we should bitch so I did :P
- Phillip
--- elephantwalker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Phil,
Orion also supports do's, even though the latest draft doesn't include
do's (an earlier draft had major sections on do's). Phil, this is a moving
target, and these guys
with Ironflair.
Regards
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phillip Ross
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:45 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
-- Hani Suleiman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can we now get on with bitching about EJB
-To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Oracle deal
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 11:34:27 +1000
I've never seen behaviour like this, and yes I run a few 24x7 sites on
Orion.
My boxes are usually dual P3-866's, each with 1 gig RAM, running RedHat and
Sun JDK 1.3
Just for fun, try bitching about the original issue.
I tried twice (two days ago and one day ago) to
respond to Karl Avendal's response to me on this
thread and it's not showing up.
At 12:48 PM 6/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
Haha, I know... Hani just said we should bitch so I
did :P
- Phillip
---
...don't blame Orion.
Regards,
the elephantwalker
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of J Armstrong
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:50 PM
To: Orion-Interest
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Oracle deal gag
Just for fun, try bitching about
Oracle wasn't the best J2EE
platform. But now they've got Orion.
From: Reid Hartenbower [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:36:23 -0700
This is my fear as well, and why I am surprised
: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:41 PM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
I agree fully. This is good for Orion, for Oracle, and us as
developers.
The indication that I've been getting at JavaOne is that this deal is
similar to the JBuilder deal -- Oracle licenses the source code, and
goes
: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Oracle deal
Hi all,
I am running Oracle's oc4j ( i.e. Orion 1.5.0.) on Solaris BOX
having 1G
RAM, 12 CPU's box. We are now testing the Orion Server for the Scalability
and Load test. We are running the Simple Jsp , for a duration of one day
Using the Load
Hello Jay,
Excuse me, but I'd like to say, I TOLD YOU SO!!!
I like Orion, but while we've been asking, Any news
from Orion yet?? (Jan 13, 2001), and
functioning as free testers, they've been working on
the version for Oracle.
There has certainly not been any work on the version
for
--- Karl Avedal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm listening, and I hope that Oracle will take part
in the user discussions with all the rest of you. And
if Oracle recruits talent from this list, that would
be a very nice thing.
There are teams within Oracle Corp that read and reply to the
--- Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Some of you may recall that, back in April, for
about a week, we had a
heated, sometimes humorous discussion with the
subject A Swedish Idea
(for Ironflare to call their fellow Swedes at
MySQL). Someone made the
comment:
**
...CLIP...
I hope this orion + oracle deal is the same as the borland jbuilder + oracle
jdeveloper deal. Oracle licensed Jbuilder technology, but Borland was
still free to take Jbuilder in any direction they wanted, AND oracle was
free to take Jdeveloper in any direction they wanted. The end result
favorite development
environment.
- Original Message -
From: Keith Kwiatek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
I hope this orion + oracle deal is the same as the borland jbuilder +
oracle
jdeveloper deal
Why can't everyone just enjoy and bask in the moment? It seems that every
time something happens on this list, we all have to start whyning! If
things suck later, just change to different app server if you're unhappy
with the results. This just means that:
1- Orion kicks butt
2- Oracle's
I agree fully. This is good for Orion, for Oracle, and us as
developers.
The indication that I've been getting at JavaOne is that this deal is
similar to the JBuilder deal -- Oracle licenses the source code, and
goes off and forks it, adding their own value-add features. Orion is
free to keep
I just read about Orion being used as the base code
for their 9i app server. Does anyone know the specifics of the deal?
Specifically I wanted to know what version of Orion they are using, and if there
would be any benefit to future versions of Orion.
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bryan
YoungSent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 11:10 AMTo:
Orion-InterestSubject: Oracle deal
I just read about Orion being used as the base
code for their 9i app server. Does anyone know the specifics
I've been told Oracle's oc4j is orion 1.5.0. And I've also been told that it's
confidental as to how/when/if ironflare will continue to push newer builds of
orion to Oracle or what.
- Phillip
--- Bryan Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just read about Orion being used as the base code for
this is true it is basically orion
1.4.5
- Original Message -
From:
Bryan Young
To: Orion-Interest
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 1:10
PM
Subject: Oracle deal
I just read about Orion being used as the base
code for their 9i app server. Does anyone know
actually, it's totally true that it's 1.5.0 as
Phillip stated...
- Original Message -
From:
Chad Cromwell
To: Orion-Interest
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:58
PM
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
this is true it is basically orion
1.4.5
- Original
] To: Orion-Interest
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: cc:
owner-orion-interest@orionSubject: Re: Oracle deal
Some of you may recall that, back in April, for about a week, we had a
heated, sometimes humorous discussion with the subject A Swedish Idea
(for Ironflare to call their fellow Swedes at MySQL). Someone made the
comment:
**
...they (Magnus and Karl) are just 2 guys, who wanna code
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phillip Ross
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:08 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
I've been told Oracle's oc4j is orion 1.5.0. And I've also been
told that it's
confidental as to how/when/if ironflare
PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 10:30 AM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: Re: Oracle deal
What I am interested in is what are the future implications for Orion?
We are about to purchase a license for Orion, but if development on Orion
isn't going
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