On 16/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
Cotty posted (among many, many other things)
10. I'm not a brainy guy. I don't have a degree. I have 4 'O' Levels:
Maths, English, Drama, Photography. So I can add up, write it down,
pretend, and take a snap. That's it.
At least YOU passed O-Level
Some obvious points:
1) Many on this list are techie types, at least in term os enjoying
technology for its own sake. For these, the *istD is a wonderful thing
in itself, and we are experiencing new toy syndrome.
2) For anyone that has some understanding of chemical based
photography, it is
You're right. After I take 36 (well, actually, about 38, 'cause I can
stretch film and get those extra couple of frames out of every roll) shots,
I rewind the film into the cannister, and take it to my lab. I then say to
the owner, Hey, Rob, develop this with contacts, and I'll be back in a
Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 16/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
Here's a few tips:
1. I modified the lens cuz I wanted to be able to post to the PUG without
shooting on film, and seeing as I digitally defected a year ago, it
seemed a reasonable way...
2. I like posting to the PUG cuz
Butch Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I believe Jay Leno (Tonight Show host) has a motorcycle built around a
helicopter turbine engine. They run about $250,000
http://motorcyclecity.com/turbine.htm
You can't top the Australians when it comes to building amazing custom
motorcycles. There is one
(Shel wrote
You can't convert me to your point of view, really. We pretty much agree ...
we just
take a different approach to the final image. You're a more technical guy,
it helps you
to know why certain things are. I'm less technical, and just accept what is
and work
with it as best I
On 15 Nov 2003 at 12:19, Bucky wrote:
I think that an interest in
mechanical cameras, akin to those orchestras that only play with period
instruments, is something many photographers share to varying degrees,
though I also think that, contrary to your assertion, most people, at least
on the
Cotty posted (among many, many other things)
10. I'm not a brainy guy. I don't have a degree. I have 4 'O' Levels:
Maths, English, Drama, Photography. So I can add up, write it down,
pretend, and take a snap. That's it.
At least YOU passed O-Level Maths.
ERNR
(who
didn't)
You know, they should put png in there to, smaller
than tiff, no loss as with jpeg.
--- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just curious -- are PEF and TIFF file formats open
source?
TIFF is a published, documented format, and there is
an open
source library that supports the
On 14 Nov 2003 at 17:17, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Nope, you're mistaken, Rob. While it's not a simple matter, and it's probably
not something you'd want to do very often, the M3 (at least) will make a double
exposure. Haven't tried the later versions - 4, 6, 7
I know that the film release can
You know, they should put png in there to, smaller
than tiff, no loss as with jpeg.
I don't believe PNG has any way to store EXIF data.
It's a handy format for many things (I use it myself),
but it isn't really suitable for the purpose of storing
images from a digital camera with a lot of
I don't know about Exif data but icc profiles can be
embedded in them now, the format is open and is being
improved. Maybe in time.
--- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You know, they should put png in there to, smaller
than tiff, no loss as with jpeg.
I don't believe PNG has any
Bucky wrote:
Utter nonsense. People have yammered on ad nauseam about developers in this
forum too. Bits, bytes, and the software that manipulates 'em is a big part
of a new, and equally legitimate, form of photography. Pentax is now a
manufacturer of digital photographic equipment,
Hi,
Keith Whaley wrote:
No disrespect, Mike, but there ain't NOTHIN' like a Saturn V!
Even standing a few miles away, the blatting noise and overpressure
from that HUGE solid lighting off, was among the most impressive,
scariest thing I'd ever witnessed! g
None taken. Environmentalist
You guys seen this:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Steve Larson
Redondo Beach, California
- Original Message -
From: mike wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: Re Bills Chili-was: I feel like Mike Johnston
Hi
Hi,
Steve Larson wrote:
You guys seen this:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Steve Larson
Redondo Beach, California
Interesting stuff. My first lodgings in higher education was at Doxford
House, family home (mansion) of the Doxford family, whose company
developed marine diesels of
. Robert Oppenheimer
From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re Bills Chili-was: I feel like Mike Johnston
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:25:34 -0800
mike wilson wrote:
Hi,
Cotty wrote:
On 14/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged
]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: Re Bills Chili-was: I feel like Mike Johnston
Hi,
Keith Whaley wrote:
No disrespect, Mike, but there ain't NOTHIN' like a Saturn V!
Even standing a few miles away, the blatting noise and overpressure
from that HUGE solid
Matt Bevers wrote:
On Nov 14, 2003, at 7:47 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Now, on a completely different note: Does anyone have a great recipe
for
beef stew? I've been craving comfort food lately ... wonder why?
Olive oil
1 1/4 pounds stew beef, cut into 1-inch pieces
6 large
On 15/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
Steve Larson wrote:
You guys seen this:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Steve Larson
Redondo Beach, California
Bloody Nora, I wouldn't like to hand-crank that on a cold winter morning!
Incredible. For anyone who's ever built an engine, this
Hi,
graywolf wrote:
The Rolls-Royce Deltic used to have the most hp/lb, complicated design. Wonder
if they still make those?
They certainly don't use them on the trains anymore. A well-loved
design by many. Quite a few preserved locomotives floating around the
country.
mike
hope you can do the same, albeit no doubt with
a different body, and perhaps without a dog. Life surely can be grand.
-Original Message-
From: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14-Nov-03 04:47
To: PDML
Subject: I feel like Mike Johnston
Yep, I'm in a mood to rant
Shel,
I've been thinking about this rant of yours, and why it doesn't ring true to
me. I think I have finally hit upon it.
I think you've totally missed it, actually.
Presuming to speak for Shel (I'm sure he'll correct me when I get it wrong):
I wouldn't put Shel in the image is
Gosh, John Francis! All those words quoted and then bothing to say?
I've never seen you speechless before!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. One too many carriage returns when recovering from
an editing goof, and the empty message gets sent anyway.
It's all this digital messaging that's to blame. If we'd
On 15/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
I've been thinking about this rant of yours
[rebuttal snipped]
I think he's calling you out.
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People, Places, Pastiche
||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps
_
Free UK Mac Ads
Not exactly, John, but pretty close.
Truth is, it ain't digital that I ranted against, it was just what seemed to me
the excessive amount of minutia that was being discussed that didn't seem to add
anything to the making of photographs. I feel exactly the same way when people
talk about film in
I don't know about Exif data but icc profiles can be
embedded in them now, the format is open and is being
improved. Maybe in time.
Not really. The PNG format is in the last stages of being accepted
as an international standard, and is therefore not being changed.
Addition of EXIF data would
On 15/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
You guys seen this:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Yikes! Plane bearings, no less!
This can't compete in terms of displacement, but as for cylinder count,
how does 48 sound... in a motorcycle?
http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
OUTRAGEOUS.
Hi,
Cotty wrote:
On 15/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
You guys seen this:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Yikes! Plane bearings, no less!
This can't compete in terms of displacement, but as for cylinder count,
how does 48 sound... in a motorcycle?
Hi,
Saturday, November 15, 2003, 10:24:40 PM, you wrote:
It's all this digital messaging that's to blame. If we'd stuck with
the old pen-and-ink methods this would never have happened.
yes - we could have Abyssinian runners carrying our messages around the
world in cleft sticks! That would
I know that that knowledge can help some people
make better photographs, technically ... but so what. What good is a technically
perfect photograph that tells no story, that shares no interest, that fails to
incite or provoke, that gives no rise to
I'm gonna reply interspersed:
That's not the point, really. The capture of the image doesn't end when you
trip the shutter; that's almost only the start of the process. So, given the
latent image on the film (or in the memory), how can one best complete the
visualisation? Better
, 2003 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Re Bills Chili-was: I feel like Mike Johnston
Steve Larson wrote:
You guys seen this:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Yikes! Plane bearings, no less!
This can't compete in terms of displacement, but as for cylinder count,
how does 48 sound
Happy Birthday! But after all I was just being honest. I have often called
my wife over to the monitor to show her your latest effort.
-Original Message-
From: Gianfranco Irlanda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 15-Nov-03 12:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I feel like Mike
Excellent points.
If none of these things were operator-adjustable, all the talk about
them would be academic. Learning for learning's sake.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. If you look at Boz's K-mount
pages you'll find them full of facts that were put together, mostly by
PDML
I believe Jay Leno (Tonight Show host) has a motorcycle built around a
helicopter turbine engine. They run about $250,000
http://motorcyclecity.com/turbine.htm
Perhaps those with the fix it in Photoshop mentality might disagree, but hey, if
y'gotta fix it, then maybe something was wrong to begin with.
Maybe. But I'm not so much arguing for fixing it as I am arguing against breaking it.
Maybe what was wrong was the software that was being used.
, Australia
- Original Message -
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PDML [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:47 PM
Subject: I feel like Mike Johnston
Yep, I'm in a mood to rant a little ... and it ain't even Sunday
morning.
I've been back on the list for a short
Yep, I'm in a mood to rant a little ... and it ain't even Sunday
morning.
I've been back on the list for a short while, and am (almost) stunned to
find so many messages about digital imaging. The messages I've read had
little, if anything, to do with photography, at least in the sense that
I've
PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PDML [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: I feel like Mike Johnston
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:47:08 -0800
I've been back on the list for a short while, and am (almost) stunned to
find so many messages about digital imaging. The messages I've read had
little
Now, on a completely different note: Does anyone have a great recipe for
beef stew? I've been craving comfort food lately ... wonder why?
shel
Peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Ice cream.
Anytime there is a new technology, there is a learning overhead. And there
also is bound to be some
On 14 Nov 2003 at 4:47, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
I've been back on the list for a short while, and am (almost) stunned to
find so many messages about digital imaging. The messages I've read had
little, if anything, to do with photography, at least in the sense that
I've come to know photography
Yep, I'm in a mood to rant a little ... and it ain't even Sunday
morning.
Snip.
I AGREE!!!
Can't help with a beef stew recipe, but can provide one for chili.
Bill
they are.
VBG
Len
---
* There's no place like 127.0.0.1
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PDML [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: I feel like Mike Johnston
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:47:08 -0800
I've been back on the list for a short while, and am (almost) stunned
At 07:47 AM 11/14/03, throwing caution to the wind, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Yep, I'm in a mood to rant a little ... and it ain't even Sunday
Snip
Okay, everyone, listen up. Shel only wants us to talk about what Shel is
interested in. Before you send a post to the list, please send it to Shel
RAW is what the camera produces. A Canon will produce a different looking
RAW file than a Nikon or a Pentax. RAW, in your own words, bypasses most of
the processing on the camera. Most means not all.
If you've not already tried it, grab a few different cameras that use RAW,
take the same shot
Hey Doug,
You circumvented the approval process. You do not set a good example for the
other list members. You will be visited by the Standards and Practices
Police later in the day. Are you still living in your van? Still parked
near the school yard?
Are there really humor impaired people
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
alex wetmore wrote:
Unless you use RAW. RAW bypasses most of the processing on the camera
and allows you to do the processing on your PC.
RAW is what the camera produces. A Canon will produce a different looking
RAW file than a Nikon or a
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:10:53 -0800
Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
RAW is what the camera produces. A Canon will produce a different
looking
RAW file than a Nikon or a Pentax. RAW, in your own words, bypasses
most of
the processing on the camera. Most means not all.
If you've not
On 14/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
You are correct. We no longer make photographs. We make inkjet prints.
Bill
Oh boy. Uncle Bill, I can see we're going to have a *very* long night sat
outside PDML Central next June
:-)
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__
|| (O) | People,
And that, indeed, was my rant and the whole point of my post.
I do agree with Shel on one point though - discussion of intricacies
of digital world takes us somewhat away from Pentax and from
Photography. Indeed, comparing various OSes, software packages, file
formats, and so on, has rather
Well, I don't own ANY of those cameras, but it's not been hard to grab one
of each to see how they perform. True, I live in an area where such
cameras abound - in fact, many can be found just lying about on the
ground, or growing in the shrubbery ...
Boris Liberman wrote:
I must say that his
RAW is what the camera produces. A Canon will produce a different looking
RAW file than a Nikon or a Pentax. RAW, in your own words, bypasses most of
the processing on the camera. Most means not all.
No. A *ist-D will produce just about the same RAW image as a Nikon D-100,
as far as the
BRAVO, BRAVO!
--
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
Yep, I'm in a mood to rant a little ... and it ain't even Sunday
morning.
I've been back on the list for a short while, and am (almost) stunned to
find so many messages about digital imaging. The messages I've read had
little, if anything, to do with
Wait a minute. Do we know that Shel is a real photographer?
Shel, have you ever used a Speed Graphic?
Real photographers use Speed Graphics. I do not want to have to say this
again. IS THAT CLEAR?
ditto: Doug's PS.
--
Doug Brewer wrote:
At 07:47 AM 11/14/03, throwing caution to the wind, Shel
By the way, Shel, I didn't know you hated cat pictures. :)
--
graywolf
http://graywolfphoto.com
You might as well accept people as they are,
you are not going to be able to change them anyway.
[Shel enjoys his Leica] What a lovely experience ...
I could focus wherever I pleased (even where there was nothing to focus
upon!), not where some sensor told me to;
Oddly enough, you can do this with a *ist-D, too.
I decided if the focus was
correct or not, not some sensor that glows
BRAVO, BRAVO!
[Shel's rant deleted]
You might as well accept people as they are,
you are not going to be able to change them anyway.
I really like the irony here.
On 14/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
I know I'll be cobbling together my own replacement for Photo Laboratory.
Perhaps a couple of other list posters will join me in this effort, too;
interested parties might like to contact me off-list to discuss the
project (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]).
Er,
Shel's back.
vbg
-frank
The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist
fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PDML [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: I feel like Mike Johnston
Date: Fri, 14 Nov
Bill,
Will we get to sample some of this chili of yours at GFM? Chili and beer
and camping! Hoo Haa!
Makes me think of the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles...
vbg
cheers,
frank
The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist
fears it is true. -J. Robert
like Mike Johnston
Bill,
Will we get to sample some of this chili of yours at GFM? Chili and beer
and camping! Hoo Haa!
Makes me think of the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles...
vbg
cheers,
frank
The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist
I've used the precursor to the Speed Graphic ... the Slow Graphic LOL
graywolf wrote:
Wait a minute. Do we know that Shel is a real photographer?
Shel, have you ever used a Speed Graphic?
Real photographers use Speed Graphics. I do not want to have to say this
again. IS THAT CLEAR?
Hey John ...
I enjoyed using your *ist D ... remember, I told you how much I liked some of
the features. I like that it's not a Leica, just like I'm glad the Leica is
not a digital Pentax or Canon, or some such. I like my Sony, but I won't give
up the MX.
shel
John Francis wrote:
[Shel
Hey, it ain't the camera I was kvetching about ...
Annsan (who deletes anything that says *istD)
On 14/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
I know I'll be cobbling together my own replacement for Photo Laboratory.
Perhaps a couple of other list posters will join me in this effort, too;
interested parties might like to contact me off-list to discuss the
project (mailto:[EMAIL
Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Doug Brewer wrote:
In many ways, the bits and bytes talk is analogous to the talk of
dark room techniques and equipment. It's about the getting and
extracting latent image.
Not really, Doug ...
Oh yes it is. You have a better chance of making the
feel like Mike Johnston
So, for those of you who haven't tried it yet, grab an old camera, grab
some film, and go out and make pictures in the fashion of a by gone
era. And for those of you who have an old Spottie around, or an MX, or
some such silly paperweight, it may be time to take
you can't change how silver reacts to light either.
Herb
- Original Message -
From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: I feel like Mike Johnston
RAW is what the camera produces. A Canon will produce
Nope, you're mistaken, Rob. While it's not a simple matter, and it's probably
not something you'd want to do very often, the M3 (at least) will make a double
exposure. Haven't tried the later versions - 4, 6, 7
cheers,
shel
Rob Studdert wrote:
I could even make a double
exposure
Bills Chili-was: I feel like Mike Johnston
On 14/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
Will we get to sample some of this chili of yours at GFM? Chili and beer
and camping! Hoo Haa!
Makes me think of the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles...
That bloody camper will be floating
mike wilson wrote:
Hi,
Cotty wrote:
On 14/11/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:
Will we get to sample some of this chili of yours at GFM? Chili and beer
and camping! Hoo Haa!
Makes me think of the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles...
That bloody camper will be floating
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Shel Belinkoff wrote:
My point is that I don't give a damn about what goes on in the camera if
I can't change it, and it's not important to me if I can change it. I
don't give a hoot where file markers are located. I don't care what
Bayer interpolates. Give me the
- Original Message -
From: Shel Belinkoff
Subject: Re: I feel like Mike Johnston
I've used the precursor to the Speed Graphic ... the Slow Graphic LOL
I have used a Crown Graphic, which is appropriate, since we still believe in
royalty here.
William Robb
Chris ...
I don't spend any money doing this. Camera shops around here are more than
happy to let good customers take a camera for a test drive, sometimes over
night. Sometimes a friend or an acquaintance has one that s/he'll let you
try. And yes, I'm aware that not everyone has the
Bill Owens wrote:
With you and Jostein in there, maybe I should delete the beans?
Bill
Naw, just put some real peppers in there!
Funny story:
I vacation with a group of friends every year and we take turns with the
cooking. Bob R. was doing the cooking that night and was making chili. The
Exactly. And the main thrust of the current discussion centers around
getting the best possible image, which apparently Pentax's photo lab
does not deliver. Dario's comparison with the 300D proves that. The
Genzo Raw convertor's images look much sharper. I can't seem to find it
anywhere
John, how about a converter to 48bit Tiff? There is not much to do
(compared to a full blown app) except fix dcraw to do the white balance
using all 12 bits and spreading it out over 16 bits (maybe continue to
ignore the 4 lsbs). That way it can be brought into Adobe and processed
I will send you a copy of the software if you like.
-Original Message-
From: Robert Gonzalez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14-Nov-03 21:22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I feel like Mike Johnston
Exactly. And the main thrust of the current discussion centers around
John Francis wrote:
That's the first thing I'll do - a PEF-to-TIFF converter (24 48 bit)
that preserves all the EXIF information, but which uses the RAW-to-RGB
converter from dcraw. It looks as though dcraw does white balance, by
the way - it just always uses auto-white-balance, ignoring the
Just curious -- are PEF and TIFF file formats open source?
TIFF is a published, documented format, and there is an open
source library that supports the standard version. The same
is true of JPEG.
EXIF is an extension to TIFF (or to JPEG), and is a way to
include all sorts of additional data
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