[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-15 Thread Drs.W.T.M. Berendsen
: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!       Dear Jim, Rob and List:   Before turning to Jim's post, a couple of comments about the Salzburg conferences.   The Whitehead conference attracted about three hundred (300!!) participants.  The Chines

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-15 Thread Jim Piat
Dear Jerry, I agree my attempt to explained handedness was faulty. Here is the Peirce reference to the issue. Glad the conference was such a success. Best wishes, Jim Piat "Take any fact in physics of the triadic kind, by which I mean a fact which can only be defined by simultaneous refere

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-15 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
Dear Jim, Rob and List:Before turning to Jim's post, a couple of comments about the Salzburg conferences.The Whitehead conference attracted about three hundred (300!!) participants.  The Chinese are keenly interested in Whitehead.  It was rumored that they intend to establish 25 research institutes

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-04 Thread Benjamin Udell
nt"), however, is what correlates to the info-theoretic recipient. (Note: Information theory also places channels between the stages, especially between encoding & decoding.)   Best, Ben   ----- Original Message - From: Jim Piat To: Peirce Discussion Forum Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-04 Thread Jim Piat
  Ben wrote:   >>A 3-D object can be so rotated in 4-D space as to turn it opposite-handed. I remember an episode of the original _Outer Limits_ about it -- some man ended up with two right hands :-).>>   My response:   Thanks, Ben.  I'm not surprised to hear from you on

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-04 Thread Jim Piat
Wilfred wrote:   "Is it not the case that even notions of left and right in a triadic Peirce relation require the consideration of a multiple relation of multiple directions? I mean, even if the left and the right are set (like A-B) and (B--A) in the example below, there are still ma

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-03 Thread Drs.W.T.M. Berendsen
Is it not the case that even notions of left and right in a triadic Peirce relation require the consideration of a multiple relation of multiple directions? I mean, even if the left and the right are set (like A-B) and (B--A) in the example below, there are still many more X’s (si

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-03 Thread Jim Piat
Dear Jerry,  Folks--   For the fun of it, I'd like to try my hand at a biological application of Peirce's categories (and loosely speaking his notions qualisign, sinsign, and legisign).   Consider the cell -- thought of by some as the fundamental unit of all living biological organisms. In pa

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-03 Thread Jim Piat
Jerry Chandler wrote:   "But, my point is that if four different groups are necessary to construct an optical isomer of carbon such that it distinguishes between the logic of polarized light, then it is mathematically impossible to achieve this logical distinction with any notion of 'threene

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-03 Thread Bill Bailey
Patrick, My responses are interspersed below. - Original Message - From: "Patrick Coppock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Cc: "Bill Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:26 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sins

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-03 Thread Patrick Coppock
Thanks Bill for your comments. You wrote: Patrick, I'm don't know what in my post you're replying to. I don't keep my posts, so I can't be sure, but I don't recall mentioning an "expression continuum," "segments" or "meaning continuum." I may have; I sometimes think I only think I know wha

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-02 Thread Bill Bailey
m: "Patrick Coppock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Cc: "Bill Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! Hi Bill, you wrote: I think it is not very usefu

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-02 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
Dear Patrick:A few quick notes from Salzburg as I found your comments of interest and perhaps I can clarify some issues.My goals are more concerned with a coherent philosophy of science, especially a coherent relation between chemical philosophy and biological philosophy and medical philosophy.  Pe

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-02 Thread Patrick Coppock
Hi Bill, you wrote: I think it is not very useful to speak of signs as existing in the same process as existential objects, but if we must, perhaps we can say, "Yes, signs exist, but much faster than objects do." Well yes I guess so. The sign function may be construed (rather simplistically

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! ...real-reality... truth...

2006-07-01 Thread Claudio Guerri
Asociación Latinoamericana de Semiótica_ [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Thanks Claudio     - Original Message - From: Jorge Lurac To: Peirce Discussion Forum Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! ...real-realit

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-07-01 Thread Patrick Coppock
Jerry, thanks for your comments, Sorry for my rather slow reply, but family and some university-political obligations have taken quite a lot of time the last few days. In any case, I can see I'll have my work cut out to be brief in replying to your notes, since brief though they may be, the

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! ...real-reality... truth...

2006-06-30 Thread Jorge Lurac
Original Message - From: "Jim Piat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" <peirce-l@lyris.ttu.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! > >> It is found in "How to Make Our Id

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-30 Thread Benjamin Udell
Best, Ben - Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Ransdell" To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! In response to me saying:. >Maybe I should add that I find it difficult

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-30 Thread Joseph Ransdell
o_ with "The Origin of Birds." Best, Ben - Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Ransdell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:13 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! Michael said:

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Benjamin Udell
." Best, Ben - Original Message - From: "Joseph Ransdell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:13 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! Michael said: [MD:] Haven't had the pleasure

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Joseph Ransdell
believe that anyone has actually been able to read all of the way through Calvino's practical joke of a book! So I wouldn't count on it as a solution to anything. But it's a good read as far as you can stand it nonetheless! Joe Ransdell - Original Message - From

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! ...real-reality... truth...

2006-06-29 Thread Claudio Guerri
L PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" <peirce-l@lyris.ttu.edu> Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! > >> It is found in "How to Make Our Ideas Clear":>>>> The opinion which is fated to be

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Michael J. DeLaurentis
ualize the cosmological stew that "preceded" the sporting emergence of Firstness. -Original Message- From: Joseph Ransdell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:19 PM To: Peirce Discussion Forum Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! So i

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Joseph Ransdell
the floor with uncontrollable laughter! (Peirce didn't say that, but he might have.) Joe Ransdell - Original Message - From: "Michael J. DeLaurentis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: [peirce

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Jim Piat
It is found in "How to Make Our Ideas Clear": The opinion which is fated to be ultimately agreed to by all who investigate, is what we mean by the truth, and the object represented in this opinion is the real. That is the way I would explain reality. CP 5.407 Joe Ransdell Dear Folks, T

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Michael J. DeLaurentis
ROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:40 PM To: Peirce Discussion Forum Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! It is found in "How to Make Our Ideas Clear": The opinion which is fated to be ultimately agreed to by all who investigate, is what we mean by

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Joseph Ransdell
- Original Message - From: "Claudio Guerri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:25 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! Patrick, List, Patrick wrote the 28 June: "I like to start out from

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Benjamin Udell
imperative of _loken_ "to look." Best, Ben - Original Message - From: "Claudio Guerri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! Patrick, List, Pat

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Claudio Guerri
Patrick, List, Patrick wrote the 28 June: "I like to start out from Peirce's definition of the real as "that object for which truth stands"" I could not find this definition in the CP... could you tell from where you got it? I found this one, closely related: CP 1.339 [...] Finally, the inter

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-29 Thread Arnold Shepperson
Patrick, Jean-Marc, Jerry, Jim, Bill, List J.Ch = Jerry Chandler BB = Bill Bailey J-MO = Jean-Marc Orliaguet AS = Arnold Shepperson The following remarks caught my eye as I read through the exchanges on this thread: J-MO: ... the phenomenological approach which consists in studying how forms can b

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Jean-Marc Orliaguet
Frances Kelly wrote: Frances to Jean-Marc... Hi, see the quote below - it's from the collected papers 1.365. especially: "... besides genuine Secondness, there is a degenerate sort *which does not exist as such*, but is only so conceived." Peirce calls them 'internal', 'relations of rea

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Benjamin Udell
s in mind in discussions of the interpretant. Best, Ben - Original Message - From: "Bill Bailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:03 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help! Pat

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Frances Kelly
Frances to Jean-Marc... This muse is somewhat off topic, but may be related to the subject. You recently stated here that Peirce wrote some thirds and seconds are degenerate, which means that they have no real existence. The statement that degenerate categories have no real existence is intriguing

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Bill Bailey
Patrick: In addition to representing what I have always hoped is Peirce's developmental teleology, your description of sign function seems to me to get to the heart of pragmatic discourse analysis in which conventional sign structures and meanings ("syntactics" and "semantics") serve principally

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
Patrick, Jean-Marc. On Jun 28, 2006, at 7:27 AM, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: Patrick Coppock wrote: At 0:11 -0400 25-06-2006, Jerry LR Chandler wrote: I will be at the Whitehead Conference in Salzburg next week so I do not anticipate much time for replies. ... However, for us to believe tha

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Patrick Coppock
At 9:19 -0400 28-06-2006, Jim Piat wrote: In any case, what I'm doing here is asking a question and would love for someone to attempt to sort through how the terms real, existent and true are related. That's the big one Jim! I like to start out from Peirce's definition of the real as "that

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Patrick Coppock
Hi Jim, and thanks for your comments. You wrote: At 8:47 -0400 28-06-2006, Jim Piat wrote: Dear Patrick, Folks-- Whitehead, yes -- and also Wittgenstein's notion of family resemblance. Signs, like thought are more or less continuous and resist our attempts to pigeon hole them. OTOH contrasti

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Jim Piat
Patrick wrote: However, for us to believe that Firsts, Seconds and Thirds actually "exist", beyond their being mere transitory events in an ongoing semiosic process, would be fallibilistic in Peirce's terms, or a "Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness" in Whitehead's terms. Jean-Marc responded:

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Jim Piat
Dear Patrick, Folks--   Whitehead, yes -- and also Wittgenstein's notion of family resemblance.  Signs, like thought are more or less continuous and resist our attempts to pigeon hole them. OTOH contrasting mere intellectual associations with triadic thought Peirce says, "But the highest kin

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Patrick Coppock
Thanks for your comments Arnold, and yes indeed, what Peirce and Whitehead probably have most in common is their respective competencies in mathematics, and the way in which they use these competncies to consolidate and explicate their respective philosophical projects. It's their maths that

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Patrick Coppock
Thanks JM for your brief comments, I still think we need some way of distinguishing between that which is for us phenomenologically or experientally real and that which is (enduringly) existent in the world. Peirce and Whitehead both operate with notions that postulate some kind of relationa

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Jean-Marc Orliaguet
Arnold Shepperson wrote: Jean-Marc, Patrick Patrick has a point in that Peirce's categories are such that in representation the higher-order presupposes the lower (is that the way to use `presuppose, by the way?). Jean-Marc equally has a point in noting that Peirce became a `Three-Category

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Arnold Shepperson
Jean-Marc, Patrick   Patrick has a point in that Peirce's categories are such that in representation the higher-order presupposes the lower (is that the way to use `presuppose, by the way?).  Jean-Marc equally has a point in noting that Peirce became a `Three-Category Realist' in his later thinking

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Jean-Marc Orliaguet
Patrick Coppock wrote: At 0:11 -0400 25-06-2006, Jerry LR Chandler wrote: I will be at the Whitehead Conference in Salzburg next week so I do not anticipate much time for replies. ... However, for us to believe that Firsts, Seconds and Thirds actually "exist", beyond their being mere transito

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-28 Thread Patrick Coppock
At 0:11 -0400 25-06-2006, Jerry LR Chandler wrote: I will be at the Whitehead Conference in Salzburg next week so I do not anticipate much time for replies. Talking of Whitehead, whose process philosophy, or "philosophy of organism" is surely an interesting and challenging read for any Peirc

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-19 Thread Benjamin Udell
Jerry, Gary, list, > A number of recent posts have addressed the topics of: >>On Jun 19, 2006, at 1:05 AM, Peirce Discussion Forum digest wrote: >> Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign > I am seeking help in understanding the importance of these terms to > individual scholars. > The definitions are

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-19 Thread Jean-Marc Orliaguet
Gary Richmond wrote: Jerry, Here's the 'classic' presentation of qualisign, sinsign, legisign (why they are given in the order of the subject of the thread I don't know, but the categorial order I just gave them in is as to their firstness, secondness, and thirdness). In any event, this is th

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign - help!

2006-06-19 Thread Gary Richmond
Jerry, Here's the 'classic' presentation of qualisign, sinsign, legisign (why they are given in the order of the subject of the thread I don't know, but the categorial order I just gave them in is as to their firstness, secondness, and thirdness). In any event, this is the order in which Pe

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-18 Thread Auke van Breemen
Ben, -Original Message- From: Benjamin Udell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: vrijdag 16 juni 2006 16:25 To: Peirce Discussion Forum Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign MessageAuke, list, >[Auke] Ben I have the feeling that much of your uneasyness is a >conse

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread Benjamin Udell
Wilfred wrote, "List, "I did not know the Digital Peirce online site before. "   I should just send this to every new peirce-lister. Additions & corrections welcome. I've checked these links, they're all live, though some of the URLs seem to be the result of recent changes. - Ben Udell  

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread Drs.W.T.M. Berendsen
Title: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign List,   I did not know the Digital Peirce online site before. But am now reading some article there which I regard very good. And it is just the first article I am reading. Would advice people here who did not see the site before to

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread merkle
List, Bernard, Robert, Joe, Ben, Gary, Claudio, Arnaud, For a long time I do not post on this list. I wish I had more time, so interesting and dear to me is this topic. It's nice to see how this topic is a recurrent theme in the important discussions that take place here, and how new visualization

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread Benjamin Udell
Title: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign Patrick,   I did look at them right away, and they seem cool. But, though I'm good with PowerPoint and gifs & jpgs, I'm not really the kind of person to offer evaluations of modelling applets for use by Peirce-interesses.

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread Benjamin Udell
MessageAuke, list, >[Auke] Ben I have the feeling that much of your uneasyness is a consequence of >the way in which you use the terms. It seems as if you promote the semiotic >aspects that can be discerned (are involved) in signs to full fledged signs. I >try to make this clear between the lin

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread Patrick Coppock
Title: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign Ben, I wonder, have you, Gary or any of the others looked at and evaluated any of the potential of the modelling applets mentioned below (this comes from the Digital Peirce online site)? http://www.digitalpeirce.fee.unicamp.br/p-intfar.htm

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-16 Thread Auke van Breemen
Title: Message Ben, List,   Ben I have the feeling that much of your uneasyness is a consequence of the way in which you use the terms. It seems as if you promote the semiotic aspects that can be discerned (are involved) in signs to full fledged signs. I try to make this clear between the l

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-15 Thread Benjamin Udell
is it really false that the qualisign, the appearance, "horse" evokes a horse in its interpretant's mind? I think that the appearance of the word does evoke a horse in my mind at least, because of the habitual connection of that appearance with an idea of a horse. Furthermore t

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-14 Thread Drs.W.T.M. Berendsen
(like red) can also not be a legisign. But I might be wrong. Of course.   Wilfred   Van: Benjamin Udell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: dinsdag 13 juni 2006 9:51 Aan: Peirce Discussion Forum Onderwerp: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign   . If the same rules hold for

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-14 Thread Joseph Ransdell
Tomorrow then, hopefully. Joe - Original Message - From: "Bernard Morand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:39 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign Joe and list, I agree with the i

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-14 Thread Bernard Morand
Thanks very much for the quote Joe. The last sentence puzzles me. Will have to think about it: seems like Peirce considered lately that he had earlier put erroneously some considerations related to the (dynamic) interpretant into his characterizations of the relation of the object to the sign.

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-14 Thread Joseph Ransdell
Bernard says::, Joe and list, I agree with the idea of being very cautious with the 10 trichotomies classification. You are right I think in recalling that it was work in progress for Peirce. I would be very interested too in reading the material you are refering to below if you can make it avail

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-14 Thread Bernard Morand
Joe and list, I agree with the idea of being very cautious with the 10 trichotomies classification. You are right I think in recalling that it was work in progress for Peirce. I would be very interested too in reading the material you are refering to below if you can make it available to the

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Benjamin Udell
to go on and on. Peirce was not the kind to think that the patent office would need to be closed in the foreseeable future. Best, Ben Udell - Original Message - From: Drs.W.T.M. Berendsen To: Peirce Discussion Forum Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Gary Richmond
Ben, list, You wrote: Actually, the way I in which I checked was by literally flipping Robert Marty's diagram around in PowerPoint That is to say, by diagram manipulation and observation leading to fresh insight, an abduction regarding relations--exactly what Peirce sees as the value of diagra

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Frances Kelly
Frances to listers... As posited by Peirce under speculative grammatics, it is clear enough to me that the classes of immediate object signs are qualisigns and sinsigns and legisigns, and that the classes of dynamic object signs are icons and indexes and symbols, and that the various interpretant

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Gary Richmond
Ben, list, By now you've received my completed and corrected message which omits the request for the not-simplified lattice version of my trikonic diagram of the 10 classes (since I very much like your simplified form which I included in the revised message) and adds analytical content. For ri

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Gary Richmond
Joe, list, I want to correct something in my last post which could cause confusion. I wrote: That Peirce apparently included this triangular on the back of a letter which included a very tentative presentation of his very different 10 trichotomies of signs has I think resulted in confusing tha

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Joseph Ransdell
ssion Forum Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign Joe,By now you've read my corrected and completed post so that I hope some of what you asked is addressed in that corrected post. Just a point or so more for now. You wrot

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Gary Richmond
Joe, By now you've read my corrected and completed post so that I hope some of what you asked is addressed in that corrected post. Just a point or so more for now. You wrote: Would you mind reposting the diagram you refer to below? It is my trikonic diagram of the 10 classes of signs whi

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Joseph Ransdell
prano might state the point). Joe Ransdell - Original Message - From: "Frances Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:59 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign Frances to listers... The br

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Gary Richmond
Claudio, Ben, Robert, Bernard, Joe, list, First, sorry for sending out that last incomplete message by mistake. Claudio, so good to see you on the list again. I too am pleased to see all the diagrammatic discussion and especially some of Ben's abductions relating diagrams (for example the one

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Frances Kelly
Frances to listers... The broad theme of this topic and its leading threads is a subject that remains intriguingly foggy for me. At the core of my haze perhaps is the forced application of categorics upon semiotics, yet with synechastics lurking in the wings. In my attempt to wrestle with the many

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Joseph Ransdell
bear in mind and I don't recall if that was sufficiently stressed at that time. Joe . - Original Message - From: "Gary Richmond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Peirce Discussion Forum" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Joseph Ransdell
developed state and which cannot reasonably be represented as being his view.      Joe Ransdell     - Original Message - From: Benjamin Udell To: Peirce Discussion Forum Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:50 AM Subject: [peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign V

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Gary Richmond
Claudio, Ben, Robert, Bernard, Joe, list, Claudio, so goo to see you on list. I too am pleased to see all the diagrammatic discussion and especially some of Ben's abductions relating diagrams (one I believe he hasn't posted yet, but which I hope he will, shows a possible correspondence between

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Bernard Morand
Ben and list, Professional duties don't let me time enough to enter now in this very interesting discussion. Just some words: I think that the list of divisions from I to X  has to be ordered differently and may be that several orderings are conceivable. This is something about which Peirce sc

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Benjamin Udell
Various corrections. Sorry about that.   Also, anybody replying, please remember to delete all unneeded graphics and text. - Ben ---   Gary R., Robert, Bernard, Wilfred, Claudio, List,  I thought I'd try to the branching style chart of Peirce's ten-adic division of sign paramet

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-13 Thread Benjamin Udell
Gary R., Robert, Bernard, Wilfred, Claudio, List,  I thought I'd try to the branching style chart of Peirce's ten-adic division of sign parameters. (These parameters are not mutually independent). I supposed that the same formal relations applied as with the main three trichotomies of parame

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-11 Thread Benjamin Udell
Bernard, list,   It's finally occurred to me that what Bernard has been focusing on my preference for an "all-ascending" order in the table of Peirce's classes of signs. But it's not the ascending, it's the "all," that I prefer. In other words, consistency. "All descending" is fine too. If th

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-10 Thread Benjamin Udell
Bernard, list,   >[Bernard] The view point from the first trichotomy emphasizes an order on the trichotomies. That's true. Yet this order is not the whole of the subject matter: it is only the order of the numerical sequence 1, 2, 3 but it does not account for the fact that into three, 2 and

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-10 Thread Bernard Morand
Benjamin Udell wrote : I had already produced the second table (Fig. 3) when you sent the graphic of Peirce's own table. It's really just Joe's table, re-produced as an HTML table, and with the second column put into "standard" order (a, ab, abc instead of a, ba, cba) consistentl

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-09 Thread Benjamin Udell
Gary, list,   Well, I can't remember any more just what conversation it might have been that started that notion going in my mind till it turned into something mythical. Any record is lost on my old ruined hard drive. I simply have to stop relying on these vague recallings when I post to peir

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-09 Thread Gary Richmond
Ben wrote: qualisign = tone = potisign sinsign = token = actisign legisign = type = famisign   While these are often called alternate names of the same things, Gary has said that they aren't just sets of synonyms but instead reflect some differences of conception. I.e., for some purp

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-09 Thread Benjamin Udell
Wilfred, list,   (Note: if responding to this html, please remember to delete any unneeded graphics and text.)   As far as I can tell, when a quality functions as a sign, then it functions only iconically, the idea being that that's all that it semiotically _can_ do _as_ a quality. A quality

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-09 Thread Benjamin Udell
Bernard, Gary, list,   How come I never notice these errors until a minute after I send them?   THIS is the triangular arrangement with regard to the "all-ascending" ordering of the 10 classes of signs. A ~ ~ E B ~ ~ ~ J ~ ~ F ~ ~ ~ H C ~ ~ ~ I ~ ~ G D ALL-ASCENDING (1-2-3) ORDER

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-09 Thread Bernard Morand
Gary Richmond a écrit : Thanks you Ben and Bernard! Gary Benjamin Udell wrote: Thank you, Bernard! -Ben Fig 1 and Fig. 2 seem to be identical except that the second one has colors which indicate explicitly that there are rows and columns. But the third fig

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-08 Thread Gary Richmond
Thanks you Ben and Bernard! Gary Benjamin Udell wrote: Thank you, Bernard! -Ben     Qualisign Sinsign Legisign Icon Index Symbol

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-08 Thread Benjamin Udell
Thank you, Bernard! -Ben     Qualisign Sinsign Legisign Icon Index Symbol Rheme Dicisign Argument     qualisigns – iconic – rhematic / sinsigns    \ iconic – rhematic

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-08 Thread Bernard Morand
Sorry, hoping this one will work : From the own hand of the  inventor ( MS 339, August 7th 1904) : B Morand --- Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber archive@mail-archive.com

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-08 Thread Bernard Morand
From the own hand of the inventor ( MS 339, August 7th 1904) : B Morand --- Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber archive@mail-archive.com

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-06 Thread Eufrasio Prates
If I may add one important author to the list, I'd suggest some of Floyd Merrell's books, like: Change through signs of body, mind, and language (which brings some new approaches to the categories) Learning living, living learning (especially chapter 16) Best regards Eufrasio Prates On 6/6/06, Fr

[peirce-l] Re: Sinsign, Legisign, Qualisign

2006-06-06 Thread Frances Kelly
Frances to Wilfred Berendsen... These signs are of recurring interest to me also, and several past messages dealing with them by experts are in the list archive. Any replies to you will hence be followed with enthusiasm. My present access to the writings of Peirce is limited, but other writers who