Re: [Phono-L] What's wrong with this motor?

[Rich via Phono-L]

Spring is broken

On 7/15/19 10:50 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

And how easy is it to fix?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/w4QGVpMLNGHUuksx9

Thanks in advance!
Robert

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Re: [Phono-L] Little Wonder Phono problems

[Rich via Phono-L]

Like all things this also is going in cycles. Mailing lists are 
definitely a waning interest of the masses.


On 5/10/19 1:05 AM, SN Medved via Phono-L wrote:
Some people have retired from the hobby, some have passed.  From its 
heyday the list today is 10% of its former glory when people asked to be 
removed because of all the emails.  The hobby in general is the same 
way.  Each year the shows I have been to get smaller. Prices go down.  
The world famous Ron Sitko told me this past year has been great for him 
because people who own family phonographs are buying parts for them.  At 
the Orlando show I got three reproducers to do, one was from a man whose 
grandfather owned the machine.


I remember when Ron D, I and others were discussing a subject and we 
were chastised for too many emails.  I used to save a lot of emails from 
the phonolists, now over the past three years I think I have saved one 
to my computer.


Steve Medved


*From:* Phono-L  on behalf of Bob Maffit 
via Phono-L 

*Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 12:08 AM
*To:* 'Antique Phonograph List'
*Cc:* Bob Maffit
*Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Little Wonder Phono problems

Listers:

I had been wondering what had happened to the list and its members, as 
very little was happening.


Well, it looks like we are still around.

Recently, I had inquired about a phono part and did get a reply. When 
initiated, the list works.


Bob Maffit

*From:*Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim 
Nichol via Phono-L

*Sent:* Tuesday, May 07, 2019 9:34 PM
*To:* Antique Phonograph List
*Cc:* Jim Nichol
*Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Little Wonder Phono problems

Ron, I doubt you and Mike are the only people left on this list. But 
I’ve only run into problems like yours twice. One was a Busy Bee disc 
phono. I did find a problem with binding in the governor gearing, but I 
think a weak spring was the real problem. Also, my Edison Opera stopped 
working after traveling to Chicago. It was easily fixed when I found 
that governor shaft wouldn’t turn. I loosened a set screw and allowed a 
little play in the governor shaft, and all was well.


Jim Nichol



On May 7, 2019, at 9:43 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L 
mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote:


The old spring was 5/8 by .018.   I’ve just installed a 5/8 by .022  
which seems to be about the same length, around 8 5eet I believe.  It’s 
a NOS Honest Quaker (I actually have two of these!).  It may be a bit 
better.  I think I’m going to try a counter weight on the “tone arm” to 
lighten the reproduce a bit.  That may let it play through an 8” record.


Looks like you and I are the only ones on the oldcrank phonograph list.  
NO one else commented.


Ron L

*From:*Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]*On Behalf Of*Mike 
Tucker via Phono-L

*Sent:*Saturday, May 04, 2019 6:13 PM
*To:*'Antique Phonograph List'
*Cc:*mtucker1...@gmail.com 
*Subject:*Re: [Phono-L] Little Wonder Phono problems

Ron,

What is the width of the spring?

The Windsor listing gives the following for small toy motors (Genola, 
Baby Grand,Carryola Cub, Pei-o-phone, Artone, Featherweight etc) with 
pear shape holes as ½” x .022 x 8feet.


For old type toy motors the dimensions are 9/16” x .025 x 10 feet.

I have no specific listing for the Little Wonder.

Best wishes,

Mike Tucker

*From:*Phono-L >*On Behalf Of*Ron L'Herault via 
Phono-L

*Sent:*Sunday, 5 May 2019 6:29 AM
*To:*phonol...@yahoogroups.com ; 
'Antique Phonograph List' >

*Cc:*Ron L'Herault mailto:lhera...@verizon.net>>
*Subject:*[Phono-L] Little Wonder Phono problems

I’ve been sent a LW phono with a host of small problems.  This is a 
Vertical only machine that according to the lit. should use a sapphire 
ball.   The governor springs were wrong.  I’ve got two with Columbia 
weights that are pretty close.  Had to make a lower bearing for the 
governor.  It’s  tad sloppy but rotational speed seems fairly consistent 
until the record slows half way into the side.   I suspect the spring is 
the wrong size (too long and maybe too thick).  S,  what size should 
the spring be?  There is a dish shaped washer on the winding gear side 
of the spring. Should the upward curve of the dish be towards the 
spring or towards the winding gear?  Should the spring be exposed on its 
other end or was there another dish or flat disk there?    Anybody 
know?  And does anyone know the actual length, width, thickness of the 
gov. springs?


Thanks,

Ron L

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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

[Rich via Phono-L]

You are quite welcome. Keep in mind that this finishing technique was 
applied by very low cost labor provided with minimum training and most 
were paid on a per-piece finished basis. For bare wood the usual prep 
was to stain it with a thin cut of shellac with dye in it. This colored 
shellac was actually the 2nd coat as the first coat was just a plain 
wash coat to seal the wood.Between coats a very light sanding with extra 
fine flint paper to cut off the nubs that pop up.


On 1/13/19 12:33 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

I definitely didn't see any of that the first time around! Wow, this really 
gives me something to work with, thank you! I'll try a couple spare pieces of 
wood for practice. Thanks, Rich! And thank you for sending it again!

Robert



On Jan 13, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Rich via Phono-L  wrote:


That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications medium at 
best.

Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac which is 
the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days for the wax and 
bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color and it then thinned to 
the consistency of water, use a high dollar professional watercolor brush only 
for best results. Apply enough coats of shellac to almost fill the blemish and 
then use the violin varnish for the top coat. Use rottenstone and hard felt pad 
with paraffin oil to clean up the edges once varnish has dried. Using Behlen 
Behcol thinner is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol as a 
substitute. If Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from liquor 
store. This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy once you 
collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products.
https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products

--Rich

On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info.

*From:* Phono-L  on behalf of Rich via Phono-L 

*Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM
*To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org
*Cc:* Rich
*Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post.
The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be
difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac
followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish.
The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing
technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material
that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying
type of finish that has a elastic like consistency.
--Rich
On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of 
it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms 
that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water 
I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. 
After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then 
rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture 
left over.
Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit 
involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly?
Thanks,
Robert
On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote:

You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish.  
 I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray 
cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold.  Do not use polish.  Relubricate 
moving parts with light oil.  Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal.
Ron

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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

[Rich via Phono-L]

Testors Airplane Dope is a liquid and not airplane glue. It is basically 
a lacquer and it dries rock hard and also shrinks so no brush marks and 
ripples. Testors also supplies a thinner for it.


On 1/13/19 6:47 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

What would you use to thin airplane glue? Any normal paint thinner?

*From:* Phono-L  on behalf of Rich via 
Phono-L 

*Sent:* Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:51:58 PM
*To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org
*Cc:* Rich
*Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned
cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit
soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is
Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop.

On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote:

And that would have been applied to metal finished parts?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via
Phono-L
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Cc: Rich
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post.

The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be
difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac
followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish.

The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing
technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material
that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying
type of finish that has a elastic like consistency.

--Rich

On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get
most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was
that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but
I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk
that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the
moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of
it to guard against any kind of moisture left over.

Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a
bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly?


Thanks,
Robert



On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L
mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote:


You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the
finish.   I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the
mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold.  Do not
use polish.  Relubricate moving parts with light oil.  Put oil on the
pad to avoid squeal.
Ron


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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

[Rich via Phono-L]

No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned 
cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit 
soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is 
Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop.


On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote:

And that would have been applied to metal finished parts?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via
Phono-L
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Cc: Rich
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post.

The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be
difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac
followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish.

The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing
technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material
that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying
type of finish that has a elastic like consistency.

--Rich

On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get
most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was
that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but
I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk
that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the
moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of
it to guard against any kind of moisture left over.

Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a
bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly?


Thanks,
Robert



On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L
mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote:


You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the
finish.   I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the
mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold.  Do not
use polish.  Relubricate moving parts with light oil.  Put oil on the
pad to avoid squeal.
Ron


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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

[Rich via Phono-L]

That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications 
medium at best.


Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac 
which is the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days 
for the wax and bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color 
and it then thinned to the consistency of water, use a high dollar 
professional watercolor brush only for best results. Apply enough coats 
of shellac to almost fill the blemish and then use the violin varnish 
for the top coat. Use rottenstone and hard felt pad with paraffin oil to 
clean up the edges once varnish has dried. Using Behlen Behcol thinner 
is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol as a substitute. If 
Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from liquor store. 
This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy once you 
collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products.

https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products

--Rich

On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:
I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the 
info.


*From:* Phono-L  on behalf of Rich via 
Phono-L 

*Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM
*To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org
*Cc:* Rich
*Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post.

The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be
difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac
followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish.

The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing
technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material
that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying
type of finish that has a elastic like consistency.

--Rich

On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:
Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get 
most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was 
that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but 
I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk 
that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the 
moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of 
it to guard against any kind of moisture left over.


Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a 
bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly?



Thanks,
Robert



On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L 
mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote:


You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the 
finish.   I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the 
mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold.  Do not 
use polish.  Relubricate moving parts with light oil.  Put oil on the 
pad to avoid squeal.

Ron


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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

[Rich via Phono-L]

I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post.

The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be 
difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac 
followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish.


The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing 
technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material 
that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying 
type of finish that has a elastic like consistency.


--Rich

On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:
Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get 
most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was 
that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but 
I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk 
that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the 
moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of 
it to guard against any kind of moisture left over.


Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a 
bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly?



Thanks,
Robert



On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L 
mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote:


You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the 
finish.   I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the 
mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold.  Do not 
use polish.  Relubricate moving parts with light oil.  Put oil on the 
pad to avoid squeal.

Ron


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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!

[Rich via Phono-L]

The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be 
difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac 
followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish.


On 1/10/19 5:08 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote:

Hello and happy new year to everyone! Two quick questions for you:

1. What's the best way to clean the piece pictured here? (It's the auto 
brake and start/stop lever assembly of a later Orthophonic.) Anything 
safe I can soak the whole thing in without destroying the gold lacquer 
finish?


2. What modern, commercially available product would be the closest 
match to the factory finish of the cabinet if I needed to refinish, say, 
the top of the lid? Victor used varnish, if I'm not mistaken. I'd like 
to get the same satin-y finish as what they had new.


Thanks as always!
Robert

*From:* Phono-L  on behalf of Rich via 
Phono-L 

*Sent:* Monday, December 10, 2018 9:43:03 AM
*To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org
*Cc:* Rich
*Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds
Wedging sticks under the coils is not a permanent or proper fix. The fix
is to vacuum fill the coils with class H insulating varnish. It is
likely that these motors were never designed to operate on 120vAC which
does not help either. 110vAC is not equivalent to 120vAC.

I do not think anyone rebuilds these commercially, this is an antique
restoration project.

Might have better luck sourcing replacements that have not totally dried
out and operate properly.

--Rich

On 12/10/18 8:53 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote:

ISTR that home Depot/Lowes have little bags of wooden shims, like scraps of
wood shingles that might work in place of popsicle sticks (have you looked
in your local grocery store for those?).

Ron l

-Original Message-
From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert
Wright via Phono-L
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2018 4:01 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Cc: Robert Wright
Subject: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds

Happy December, friends! Thanks again for the help with my recently-acquired
8-12. George V did the mounting bracket to be like new while Walt is working
on the reproducer.

I also stumbled upon a Credenza X with a good bit of cabinet damage and no
reproducer, but with a clean motor and interior, with the bracketless
tonearm in great shape. I can do all the woodwork on the cabinet, but the
two things I could use some help with are:

What's the best way to find a good machine-specific reproducer for the
Credenza X? I know it's one of the best ones they made, but I can't spend
$600 on it right now. What would you do? Maybe find an Orthophonic suitcase
model and scavenge the 'box off it?

More pressing at the moment are the motors. The 8-12's motor I've mentioned
already -- has a big, loud 60Hz hum from the coils loosening their grips on
the cores. I can't find anywhere popsicle sticks will even fit, and I'd
rather secure them with that doping compound that motor repair guys 'paint'
all over them to quiet them. Basically, I know I'm in over my head there.
And the motor for the Credenza X is nearly dead silent for the hum problem,
but it unfortunately has some other mechanical noise I can't figure out (a
clacking purr type of noise -- maybe the governor weights coming into
contact with something they shouldn't?). It's always something!

So I'm hoping some of you folks know someone out there who routinely
rebuilds these motors who can take my money in exchange for doing these two.
Or that one of you might be willing to. I'm hoping to dope up the coils on
both of them to keep them as silent as possible for decades to come, and to
have them disassembled, cleaned thoroughly, and relubed with the proper
grease/oil, and to have them adjusted for optimal performance with new pads
for the governors (and speed indicator in the case of the Credenza). I'm
happy to pay whatever is required, obviously, I just need to know who to
ask.

Thanks (as always) for any and all help and advice!

Best,
Robert
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Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds

[Rich via Phono-L]

Wedging sticks under the coils is not a permanent or proper fix. The fix 
is to vacuum fill the coils with class H insulating varnish. It is 
likely that these motors were never designed to operate on 120vAC which 
does not help either. 110vAC is not equivalent to 120vAC.


I do not think anyone rebuilds these commercially, this is an antique 
restoration project.


Might have better luck sourcing replacements that have not totally dried 
out and operate properly.


--Rich

On 12/10/18 8:53 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote:

ISTR that home Depot/Lowes have little bags of wooden shims, like scraps of
wood shingles that might work in place of popsicle sticks (have you looked
in your local grocery store for those?).

Ron l

-Original Message-
From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert
Wright via Phono-L
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2018 4:01 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Cc: Robert Wright
Subject: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds

Happy December, friends! Thanks again for the help with my recently-acquired
8-12. George V did the mounting bracket to be like new while Walt is working
on the reproducer.

I also stumbled upon a Credenza X with a good bit of cabinet damage and no
reproducer, but with a clean motor and interior, with the bracketless
tonearm in great shape. I can do all the woodwork on the cabinet, but the
two things I could use some help with are:

What's the best way to find a good machine-specific reproducer for the
Credenza X? I know it's one of the best ones they made, but I can't spend
$600 on it right now. What would you do? Maybe find an Orthophonic suitcase
model and scavenge the 'box off it?

More pressing at the moment are the motors. The 8-12's motor I've mentioned
already -- has a big, loud 60Hz hum from the coils loosening their grips on
the cores. I can't find anywhere popsicle sticks will even fit, and I'd
rather secure them with that doping compound that motor repair guys 'paint'
all over them to quiet them. Basically, I know I'm in over my head there.
And the motor for the Credenza X is nearly dead silent for the hum problem,
but it unfortunately has some other mechanical noise I can't figure out (a
clacking purr type of noise -- maybe the governor weights coming into
contact with something they shouldn't?). It's always something!

So I'm hoping some of you folks know someone out there who routinely
rebuilds these motors who can take my money in exchange for doing these two.
Or that one of you might be willing to. I'm hoping to dope up the coils on
both of them to keep them as silent as possible for decades to come, and to
have them disassembled, cleaned thoroughly, and relubed with the proper
grease/oil, and to have them adjusted for optimal performance with new pads
for the governors (and speed indicator in the case of the Credenza). I'm
happy to pay whatever is required, obviously, I just need to know who to
ask.

Thanks (as always) for any and all help and advice!

Best,
Robert
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Re: [Phono-L] 1A owners Model M question

[Rich via Phono-L]

You are correct on the 1/8" or a bit less. The lever on the stanchion 
can be tweaked to rest closer to the lever on the reproducer. Sometimes 
tweaking is required to get any of those reproducers to lift far enough. 
If you need them I can get measurements as I have all 3 machines.


--Rich

On 04/02/2018 10:20 AM, SN Medved via Phono-L wrote:
I recently placed a 1A mechanism in a case and created what is a 2/4 
Opera.  With the M in 2 or 4 minute and the stylus on the record and the 
machine stopped how far off the record can the stylus be lifted?  On 
most machines this is around 1/8 of an inch to allow for mandrel play.



The 1A bedplate is different from the Opera so I had an 
Opera reproduction top brazed on a 1A stanchion.  The first M I tested 
out the stylus would barely raise off the record and the second M I 
tested it would not raise off at all.  I placed washers under the 
stanchion and will make a shim.



Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have zero experience with the 
Amberola 1, 3, or Opera.



Thanks,


Steve



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Re: [Phono-L] Recorder Question Edison Birthday Celebration Invitation

[Rich]

I will second that Shawn is a wizard at recording and the technology of 
the process.


Rich

On 01/28/2015 06:13 PM, Antique Phonograph List wrote:

There are several people who are in the expert ranks of recording, I am
not one of them.  Shawn (who in my opinion is the best when it comes to
making recordings) could have been a recording star for Edison, he is
that good.  He is like Billy Murray when he talks, I have a record he
recorded for me that still impresses me.

I use Chuck's blanks to test the recorders I rebuild, I go by groove
depth and volume.  These days I use the thin black Krapes gaskets and
RTV to seal the diaphragms, the end result looks like the later
recorders Edison's workers used on recorders.  He takes pride in his
blanks and numbers each one and tests them out, you will not be
disappointed if you purchase them.

We are very fortunate to have people who through making blanks, parts,
and giving advice keep this hobby going.

Steve

  From: phono-l@oldcrank.org
  Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Recorder Question  Edison Birthday
Celebration Invitation
  To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
  Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 22:29:04 +
 
  Steve M. and Ron L. pretty much have it covered.
  I would like to add that it's very important to have
  a sharp cutter. As Steve says, it needs to be at the exactly
  correct angle. Quite often this angle is a bit more than
  the stylus holder provides straight away, hence the need to
  cock up the cutter slightly when it is mounted in the holder.
 
  The sliding tube must slide freely. The swinging weight with the
  diaphragm must swing freely with absolutely no side-play.
 
  The diaphragm needs to be sealed in air tight. I have found that
  having a gasket on the outside of the diaphragm, along with the
  beeswax sealing bead helps the overall performance of these recorders.
 
  A good recorder makes a definite resonant ring-pop when held
  up to your ear and the weight moved and let down against the
  limit loop.
 
  I make premium-quality, extremely low noise, high-sensitivity
  brown wax blanks. They are for sale.
  Each of these blanks carries my unconditional guarantee
  of 100% customer satisfaction. Each of these blanks has a serial
  number and can be traced back to specific lot numbers of the
  raw materials used to make them.
  Please check my website for all details.
  Please watch the linked video on the website called Finishing
  Operations.
  That video demonstrates 5 different recorders being used
  on a brand new blank. That video demonstrates both the blank
  and the recorders.
 
  Chuck Richards
  http://www.richardslaboratories.com
  email: chuc...@all2easy.net
 
 
  
  
   Original Message 
  From: phono-l@oldcrank.org
  To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
  Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Recorder Question 
  Edison Birthday Celebration Invitation
  Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:52:28 +
  
  Are you warming your blanks before/during recording process? How
  thick is
  the diaphragm on the recorder? Is there a gasket underneath it(i.e.
  between
  the diaphragm and the body of the reproducer. Is the diaphragm
  waxed in
  place? Does the little tube inside the reproducer neck move up and
  down
  easily to help maintain a reasonably tight air path? When you
  inspect the
  cutter with a magnifying glass, does it look sharp and feel sharp?
  
  
  
  
  Nice blanks can be purchased from Shawn Borri.
  
  
  
  Ron L
  
  
  
  From: Antique Phonograph List [mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 3:40 PM
  To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
  Subject: [Phono-L] Recorder Question  Edison Birthday Celebration
  Invitation
  
  
  
  As part of what has become Immortal Performance's annual Thomas A.
  Edison
  Birthday Celebration on the 11th of February to which Central Texas
  antique
  phonograph collectors are invited I am planning to record wax
  cylinders of a
  few of Austin's very best jazz musicians. However, results
  obtained with
  an Edison Triumph Model B phonograph with end gate  unencumbered by
  four-minute gearing, an 1890s 3 ft. conical horn  an Edison
  Recorder have
  been disappointing. The baby grand Steinway with conical horn
  pointing
  right into lid was weak  a 'cellist playing quite loudly with end
  of horn
  less than a foot from the instruments f holes was also very weak.
   Only
  with my head right at the mouth of the horn  singing loud in a
  quasi
  operatic voice was I able to make a recording of suitable
  audibility.
  The local antique phonograph repairman was able to acoustically dub
  a 78
  played on a Victor VI using smaller horn pointing into the recording
  horn
  with fair results.
  
  
  
  The jazz musicians would probably include clarinet/saxophone/bass
  saxophone
  (hopefully channeling Adrian Rollini, my favorite jazz artist),
  trumpet,
  trombone, tuba  percussion with piano used if it can be recorded.
  Would
  like to have used a fine string bass player but am pretty sure

Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

[Rich]

It is legit, unfortunately.  Do a google search for ebay data breech.  All
the passwords were encrypted.

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of john robles
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:13 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

This looks suspiciously like a phishing attempt or something...I have no
notification on my ebay account about any sort of breach of security. And I
am always afraid to click a link in an email that warns of a breach!  Anyone
else heard about this?? Ebay would notify its members, I'm sure.
John Robles


On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:47 PM, Kat Hall kathal...@gmail.com wrote:
 


WARNING - SECURITY BREACH! Earlier today, eBay announced that a cyber attack
carried out three months ago has compromised customer data, and the company
urged 145 million users of its online commerce platform to change their
passwords in order to protect their personal information. 

While they claim the files stolen did not contain financial information
including credit and debit card numbers you can never be too safe so we
strongly urge you to change your password as well if you use the site. 

Furthermore, eBay stated it found no evidence of unauthorized access to
financial information at its PayPal payments subsidiary, which encrypts and
stores its data separately.

These security breaches and cyber attacks seem to be happening more and more
and it's important that you are aware of each one so as to protect yourself
and your personal information if you use any and all affected sites and
services. 

For more info see here:
http://www.cnet.com/news/ebay-hacked-requests-all-users-change-passwords/

From the Desk of
Kat Hall
Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher) Champagne Book Group Review
Coordinator Author Liaison www.champagnebooks.com www.carnalpassions.com
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Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

[Rich]

It may be all over the news, which it is, but there has been no 
notification from eBay or PayPal directly. I do not believe it.


On 05/21/2014 10:25 PM, Zonophone2006 wrote:

It's all over the news

Sent from my iPhone


On May 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote:

This looks suspiciously like a phishing attempt or something...I have no 
notification on my ebay account about any sort of breach of security. And I am 
always afraid to click a link in an email that warns of a breach!  Anyone else 
heard about this?? Ebay would notify its members, I'm sure.
John Robles


On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:47 PM, Kat Hall kathal...@gmail.com wrote:



WARNING - SECURITY BREACH! Earlier today, eBay announced that a cyber attack 
carried out three months ago has compromised customer data, and the company 
urged 145 million users of its online commerce platform to change their 
passwords in order to protect their personal information.

While they claim the files stolen did not contain financial information 
including credit and debit card numbers you can never be too safe so we 
strongly urge you to change your password as well if you use the site.

Furthermore, eBay stated it found no evidence of unauthorized access to 
financial information at its PayPal payments subsidiary, which encrypts and 
stores its data separately.

These security breaches and cyber attacks seem to be happening more and more 
and it's important that you are aware of each one so as to protect yourself and 
your personal information if you use any and all affected sites and services.

For more info see here: 
http://www.cnet.com/news/ebay-hacked-requests-all-users-change-passwords/

 From the Desk of
Kat Hall
Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher)
Champagne Book Group
Review Coordinator
Author Liaison
www.champagnebooks.com
www.carnalpassions.com
www.burstbooks.ca
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Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

[Rich]

This is an eBay detailed announcement. 
http://www.ebayinc.com/in_the_news/story/faq-ebay-password-change


This is the general announcement. 
http://announcements.ebay.com/2014/05/ebay-inc-to-ask-ebay-users-to-change-passwords/


The first link explains what and how it was compromised. This is not a 
major loss of data it is only the potential unauthorized access of a 
database.


tempest in a tea cup.

On 05/21/2014 10:25 PM, Zonophone2006 wrote:

It's all over the news

Sent from my iPhone


On May 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote:

This looks suspiciously like a phishing attempt or something...I have no 
notification on my ebay account about any sort of breach of security. And I am 
always afraid to click a link in an email that warns of a breach!  Anyone else 
heard about this?? Ebay would notify its members, I'm sure.
John Robles


On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:47 PM, Kat Hall kathal...@gmail.com wrote:



WARNING - SECURITY BREACH! Earlier today, eBay announced that a cyber attack 
carried out three months ago has compromised customer data, and the company 
urged 145 million users of its online commerce platform to change their 
passwords in order to protect their personal information.

While they claim the files stolen did not contain financial information 
including credit and debit card numbers you can never be too safe so we 
strongly urge you to change your password as well if you use the site.

Furthermore, eBay stated it found no evidence of unauthorized access to 
financial information at its PayPal payments subsidiary, which encrypts and 
stores its data separately.

These security breaches and cyber attacks seem to be happening more and more 
and it's important that you are aware of each one so as to protect yourself and 
your personal information if you use any and all affected sites and services.

For more info see here: 
http://www.cnet.com/news/ebay-hacked-requests-all-users-change-passwords/

 From the Desk of
Kat Hall
Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher)
Champagne Book Group
Review Coordinator
Author Liaison
www.champagnebooks.com
www.carnalpassions.com
www.burstbooks.ca
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Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

[Rich]

The delayed notification implies that there is no evidence of bulk loss 
of data. Some unauthorized individual accessed the database. You are 
supposed to change all passwords at least monthly anyway and use a 
different one on each site. -- this will happen when elephants fly and 
the sun rises in the west.


On 05/21/2014 10:35 PM, Jim Nichol wrote:

I have to admit that the email below looks suspicious. But I think the story is 
true. Like you, I would NEVER click on a link in an email to logon somewhere. 
But I did manually go to eBay and change my password this afternoon.

I found eBay's official statement by first going to eBay.com, then following a 
link there to their corporate site at eBayinc.com and found their statement. It 
says they are planning to notify its users about stolen personal information, 
but didn't say exactly when.

Jim Nichol

On May 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote:


This looks suspiciously like a phishing attempt or something...I have no 
notification on my ebay account about any sort of breach of security. And I am 
always afraid to click a link in an email that warns of a breach!  Anyone else 
heard about this?? Ebay would notify its members, I'm sure.
John Robles


On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:47 PM, Kat Hall kathal...@gmail.com wrote:



WARNING - SECURITY BREACH! Earlier today, eBay announced that a cyber attack 
carried out three months ago has compromised customer data, and the company 
urged 145 million users of its online commerce platform to change their 
passwords in order to protect their personal information.

While they claim the files stolen did not contain financial information 
including credit and debit card numbers you can never be too safe so we 
strongly urge you to change your password as well if you use the site.

Furthermore, eBay stated it found no evidence of unauthorized access to 
financial information at its PayPal payments subsidiary, which encrypts and 
stores its data separately.

These security breaches and cyber attacks seem to be happening more and more 
and it's important that you are aware of each one so as to protect yourself and 
your personal information if you use any and all affected sites and services.

For more info see here: 
http://www.cnet.com/news/ebay-hacked-requests-all-users-change-passwords/

 From the Desk of
Kat Hall
Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher)
Champagne Book Group
Review Coordinator
Author Liaison
www.champagnebooks.com
www.carnalpassions.com
www.burstbooks.ca
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Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

[Rich]

Go to My Ebay Summary page where your watched items show up. Click on 
Account which is below the My eBay: Summary followed by your user name. 
The in account you can change the password.


On 05/21/2014 10:53 PM, tomj33 wrote:

I went to eBay and they do have a customer statement out there stating that 
everyone should change thier passwords.  however after searching the site for 
15 minutes and not being able to figure out how to change my password I became 
frustrated and gave up. Perhaps tomorrow morning...


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

 Original message 
From: Jim Nichol jnic...@fuse.net
Date:05/21/2014  10:50 PM  (GMT-06:00)
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Security Breach at ebay

I have to admit that the email below looks suspicious. But I think the story is 
true. Like you, I would NEVER click on a link in an email to logon somewhere. 
But I did manually go to eBay and change my password this afternoon.

I found eBay's official statement by first going to eBay.com, then following a 
link there to their corporate site at eBayinc.com and found their statement. It 
says they are planning to notify its users about stolen personal information, 
but didn't say exactly when.

Jim Nichol

On May 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote:


This looks suspiciously like a phishing attempt or something...I have no 
notification on my ebay account about any sort of breach of security. And I am 
always afraid to click a link in an email that warns of a breach!  Anyone else 
heard about this?? Ebay would notify its members, I'm sure.
John Robles


On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:47 PM, Kat Hall kathal...@gmail.com wrote:



WARNING - SECURITY BREACH! Earlier today, eBay announced that a cyber attack 
carried out three months ago has compromised customer data, and the company 
urged 145 million users of its online commerce platform to change their 
passwords in order to protect their personal information.

While they claim the files stolen did not contain financial information 
including credit and debit card numbers you can never be too safe so we 
strongly urge you to change your password as well if you use the site.

Furthermore, eBay stated it found no evidence of unauthorized access to 
financial information at its PayPal payments subsidiary, which encrypts and 
stores its data separately.

These security breaches and cyber attacks seem to be happening more and more 
and it's important that you are aware of each one so as to protect yourself and 
your personal information if you use any and all affected sites and services.

For more info see here: 
http://www.cnet.com/news/ebay-hacked-requests-all-users-change-passwords/

 From the Desk of
Kat Hall
Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher)
Champagne Book Group
Review Coordinator
Author Liaison
www.champagnebooks.com
www.carnalpassions.com
www.burstbooks.ca
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Re: [Phono-L] My membership in the PhonoL list

[Rich]

Great idea, makes it much easier for NSA/IRS/DHS/etc. to have your 
entire e-mail stream after it ages for 6 months.


On 04/26/2014 03:39 PM, Bill Burns wrote:

On 4/26/2014 3:46 PM, Darrell Lehman wrote:

78-L has been complaining all week about Bounces from Yahoo...
related... ?


Yahoo and AOL have tightened security after the recent spate of account
hacks, and as a result have screwed up posts from those ISPs to almost
all mailing lists.  It's recommended to switch to Gmail.

https://answers.syr.edu/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=31589104


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Re: [Phono-L] Great Rust Removal Method - Electrolytic Rust Removal...

[Rich]

If you use a high current source you will severely pit the metal you are 
attempting to clean. I use a 36v DC supply that has an adjustable 
voltage output and keep the current between 1 and 2 amps.


On 01/12/2014 11:20 AM, Chris Kocsis wrote:

I came across this post, which I had saved from 2011, and have a
question about this method.  I've seen a lot of suggestions to use a car
battery charger as the power source.  How about a filtered and
regulated, high-current DC supply?  I figure the purer the DC the better
and wonder about using a 12 volt, 25 amp Astron supply. Should I add a
load of some sort (such as a light bulb) in series to prevent the fuse
from blowing?

Chris

On 7/15/2011 2:43 AM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote:

This is well known to car restorers and has been used on iron or steel
for
years.
Sodium hydroxide will also work.  Sodium hydroxide is Drano but
without the
aluminum flakes that would mess up the process.  Sodium hydroxide is
commonly called lye and eye protection is advised.  It works a bit
better than
'washing soda' or soda ash which is sodium carbonate, Na2CO3.
For a gas tank an electroplated coating of zinc is suggested immediately
after the process.
For a phonograph body any pits should quickly be filled and a coat of
paint
put on if it is an exposed part.  Motor frames and the like can be dipped
into an oil bath that has a paraffin base or given a dip into shellac or
lacquer to keep the rust off.
If the part is to be plated then the next immediate step is to copper
plate
the part before any oil or oxide can contaminate the pristine surface.
Even a fingerprint is a problem.  Cast iron needs a copper plating
then tin
plating before nickel can be put on.
Electrolytic rust removal has been used by museums and restorers for
ages.
Bill Harrah had a huge bath when he was restoring old rust buckets into
great antique cars for his collection.  Harrah had an Edison Opera, a
Triumph,
an Amberola 30, and other Edison machines on display but never felt they
needed restoration.  Boy, did they!
Happy Bastille Day to all,
Al
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Re: [Phono-L] Great Rust Removal Method - Electrolytic Rust Removal...

[Rich]

This is a very good alternative for most things and it works very well.

On 01/12/2014 12:33 PM, David Dazer wrote:

I love to use a product called Evaporust.  I have done the electrolysis method 
too and prefer the ease of Evaporust.  You can google it and find all kinds of 
praise for it.  Buy it at an auto parts store.
Dave



  From: Bill Burns bi...@ftldesign.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2014 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Great Rust Removal Method - Electrolytic Rust Removal...


Just about any DC source will work; the process usually takes just a few amps 
maximum.  I usually use whichever car battery charger comes to hand.

I'd strongly recommend using washing soda (sodium carbonate) rather than sodium 
hydroxide.  You'll have body parts fairly close to the process periodically, 
and while a splash of washing soda is harmless, sodium hydroxide can do serious 
damage.

Newly de-rusted parts can also be protected with a coat of paste wax if they're 
not to be painted or plated.

Bill

On 1/12/2014 12:20 PM, Chris Kocsis wrote:

I came across this post, which I had saved from 2011, and have a
question about this method.  I've seen a lot of suggestions to use a car
battery charger as the power source.  How about a filtered and
regulated, high-current DC supply?  I figure the purer the DC the better
and wonder about using a 12 volt, 25 amp Astron supply. Should I add a
load of some sort (such as a light bulb) in series to prevent the fuse
from blowing?

Chris

On 7/15/2011 2:43 AM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote:

This is well known to car restorers and has been used on iron or steel
for
years.
Sodium hydroxide will also work.  Sodium hydroxide is Drano but
without the
aluminum flakes that would mess up the process.  Sodium hydroxide is
commonly called lye and eye protection is advised.  It works a bit
better than
'washing soda' or soda ash which is sodium carbonate, Na2CO3.
For a gas tank an electroplated coating of zinc is suggested immediately
after the process.
For a phonograph body any pits should quickly be filled and a coat of
paint
put on if it is an exposed part.  Motor frames and the like can be dipped
into an oil bath that has a paraffin base or given a dip into shellac or
lacquer to keep the rust off.
If the part is to be plated then the next immediate step is to copper
plate
the part before any oil or oxide can contaminate the pristine surface.
Even a fingerprint is a problem.  Cast iron needs a copper plating
then tin
plating before nickel can be put on.
Electrolytic rust removal has been used by museums and restorers for
ages.
Bill Harrah had a huge bath when he was restoring old rust buckets into
great antique cars for his collection.  Harrah had an Edison Opera, a
Triumph,
an Amberola 30, and other Edison machines on display but never felt they
needed restoration.  Boy, did they!
Happy Bastille Day to all,
Al

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Re: [Phono-L] Another Edison future colletible and heads up for deadline

[Rich]

Works for me.

On 12/26/2013 09:57 AM, John9ten wrote:

Am I the only one for whom this link won't work even though I copied the whole 
thing, excluding the parentheses?
John Robles


On Dec 26, 2013, at 7:15 AM, srsel...@aol.com wrote:






_Time  to Stock Up on Incandescent Bulbs Before They Go Out Permanently_
(http://links.heritage.org/hostedemail/email.htm?CID=18246527865ch=5823E15D760
7E8004A49A6B8776A53D7h=b5053f43c26e6e123298476731c09368ei=WOoHXHpNZ)

Steve Ramm

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Re: [Phono-L] Opera like cabinet for A1 mechanism

[Rich]

This is not a trivial task and will be far from low cost.

On 12/12/2013 06:24 PM, Steven Medved wrote:

Hello,

Does anyone know a person who could build a cabinet that would fit an A1 
mechanism so they could have a 2/4 Opera?

Steve

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Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Wonderful new web resources

[Rich]

Looks like most government projects. ... Too bad actually as using 
volunteer collectors and interest parties would have produced a product 
of lasting value.


On 12/07/2013 03:34 AM, DanKj wrote:

  Not to complain or to look a gift horse in the mouth, but :  Some of
the scans are so poorly done  then highly compressed as to be
illegible.  Some of the original scanning was sloppy in the extreme -
not square in the frame, bad focus carried through entire volumes,
etc.   I've downloaded either the jp2 versions or the original scanned
images in some cases, and those are sometimes easier to see. This is the
case with much of the archive dot org files, not just this batch.

The original, uncropped  unadjusted scans often show just how crude was
their setup - books were laid out on a piece of cardboard with a few
frame marks on it, with apparently no means of holding the pages in
bound volumes down FLAT so the whole page could be in focus.  Grease
marks and crumbs showed that the scanning person was eating on the job,
and his dirty fingers and nails appear here and there.  Almost looks as
if they hired bums off the street, quite frankly. Too bad they (the
Library of Congress, I assume) aren't using volunteer collectors to do
the scanning - at least they'd have enough interest to try doing a good
job.


- Original Message - From: srsel...@aol.com
To: Phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:01 PM
Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Wonderful new web resources


All I can say is WOW! Not only all the EPMs but look at what else. Below is
a posting from Sam Brylawski from the ARSCList - which I'm sure many of
you  PHONO collectors are not on.

Steve Ramm





I don't recall reading an announcement of this here. If I'm  mistaken I
hope
you'll agree that it's well worth a new mention.

The  great Media History Project that scans media serials for the  Internet
Archive, and provides a handy front end for them, has added runs  of
Talking
Machine World; the 1896 Phonoscope; and the Edison Phonograph  Monthly to
its already rich  holdings.

http://mediahistoryproject.org/broadcasting/

Congrats  and thanks to David Pierce (author of the important and
just-published  survey of extant silent films) and his team, and the staff
of the LC  Recorded Sound Reference Center.

Have fun. My apologies to your  families.

Sam Brylawski
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Re: [Phono-L] Model H Reproducer question

[Rich]

Now everyone else want to know the story...

On 11/24/2013 09:29 PM, Steven Medved wrote:

Hello Don,

Let me know if you got the e-mail I sent you off list.  Steve


From: phonowo...@hotmail.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 17:20:25 -0800
Subject: [Phono-L] Model H Reproducer question

Hi All:
I have a Model H reproducer with a top housing that has no printing on it other 
than the serial number. Can anyone shed info on this type of reproducer? I have 
seen them before but wasn't sure what the reason for this was. It is serial 
#C18226. It has the green lacquer finish as well.
Thanks,Don Henry


From: phono-l-requ...@oldcrank.org
Subject: Phono-L Digest, Vol 10, Issue 248
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 12:00:01 -0800

Send Phono-L mailing list submissions to
phono-l@oldcrank.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://oldcrank.org/mailman/listinfo/phono-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
phono-l-requ...@oldcrank.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
phono-l-ow...@oldcrank.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than Re: Contents of Phono-L digest...


If you reply, please change your subject line and don't include this entire 
digest in your message.

Today's Topics:

1. Midnight, The Stars, and You - Wanted to Buy (Brantley Kuglar)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:55:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Brantley Kuglar kugl...@hughes.net
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Midnight, The Stars, and You - Wanted to Buy
Message-ID:

711961200.18973622.1385319301316.javamail.r...@md06.hughes.cmh.synacor.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


Hi!

Happy holidays to all.? Does anyone in this group have a nice copy of Midnight, 
The Stars, and You on 78 rpm?? Please let me know. Thanks!

Brantley


- Original Message -

From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 9:11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola

Printing those off of nipperhead is not difficult at all.

On 11/17/2013 03:34 AM, DanKj wrote:

They must be somewhat printer-friendly; ?the reprints I see on ebay
are obviously the same scans from Nipperhead


- Original Message - 



There is also a multi-model booklet in reproduction often for sale on
eBay. ?It is also available digitally for onscreen reference only (it is
not printer friendly): http://www.nipperhead.com/old/colgraf.htm


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End of Phono-L Digest, Vol 10, Issue 248



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Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola

[Rich]

Printing those off of nipperhead is not difficult at all.

On 11/17/2013 03:34 AM, DanKj wrote:

They must be somewhat printer-friendly;  the reprints I see on ebay
are obviously the same scans from Nipperhead


- Original Message - 



There is also a multi-model booklet in reproduction often for sale on
eBay.  It is also available digitally for onscreen reference only (it is
not printer friendly): http://www.nipperhead.com/old/colgraf.htm


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Re: [Phono-L] Amb 1A

[Rich]

They are uploading now...

On 10/14/2013 03:26 PM, George wrote:

I have a 1A in the shop. The stop/start does not work and it appears someone 
did some earlier modifications to the on/off lever and maybe more. Is there a 
chance someone could remove the gear cover closest to the mandrel and get a 
clear picture down inside of there? Especially the little dog/cam? I know this 
will not be easy, but any help would be appreciated. I do not have anything in 
stock to compare this one too and can not remeber when I last worked on one.
Thank you,
George Vollema
Great Lakes Antique Phonograph
9496 N Woodbridge Ave
Bitely MI 49309
231-745-7175
victr...@triton.net
www.victroladoctor.com





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Re: [Phono-L] Amb 1A

[Rich]

On thier way totriton.net

On 10/14/2013 03:26 PM, George wrote:

I have a 1A in the shop. The stop/start does not work and it appears someone 
did some earlier modifications to the on/off lever and maybe more. Is there a 
chance someone could remove the gear cover closest to the mandrel and get a 
clear picture down inside of there? Especially the little dog/cam? I know this 
will not be easy, but any help would be appreciated. I do not have anything in 
stock to compare this one too and can not remeber when I last worked on one.
Thank you,
George Vollema
Great Lakes Antique Phonograph
9496 N Woodbridge Ave
Bitely MI 49309
231-745-7175
victr...@triton.net
www.victroladoctor.com





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Re: [Phono-L] Amb 1A

[Rich]

Try this

http://i.imgur.com/g00bqQh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1TjjXYn.jpg


Maybe triton.net is not playing well with others.



On 10/14/2013 03:26 PM, George wrote:

I have a 1A in the shop. The stop/start does not work and it appears someone 
did some earlier modifications to the on/off lever and maybe more. Is there a 
chance someone could remove the gear cover closest to the mandrel and get a 
clear picture down inside of there? Especially the little dog/cam? I know this 
will not be easy, but any help would be appreciated. I do not have anything in 
stock to compare this one too and can not remeber when I last worked on one.
Thank you,
George Vollema
Great Lakes Antique Phonograph
9496 N Woodbridge Ave
Bitely MI 49309
231-745-7175
victr...@triton.net
www.victroladoctor.com





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Re: [Phono-L] Amb 1A

[Rich]

On the side of the stop latch ther is al L shaped cam that is liftd by 
the hand set lever to push the pin of of the latch. It is screwed to the 
side of the spring loaded brake bar and has a short arm that is lifted 
by the hand lever. I canget a good shot of that if you need it as well.


On 10/14/2013 03:26 PM, George wrote:

I have a 1A in the shop. The stop/start does not work and it appears someone 
did some earlier modifications to the on/off lever and maybe more. Is there a 
chance someone could remove the gear cover closest to the mandrel and get a 
clear picture down inside of there? Especially the little dog/cam? I know this 
will not be easy, but any help would be appreciated. I do not have anything in 
stock to compare this one too and can not remeber when I last worked on one.
Thank you,
George Vollema
Great Lakes Antique Phonograph
9496 N Woodbridge Ave
Bitely MI 49309
231-745-7175
victr...@triton.net
www.victroladoctor.com





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Re: [Phono-L] Amb 1A

[Rich]

I got several more. Let me know if the first 2 ever show up and if you 
need more.


On 10/14/2013 03:26 PM, George wrote:

I have a 1A in the shop. The stop/start does not work and it appears someone 
did some earlier modifications to the on/off lever and maybe more. Is there a 
chance someone could remove the gear cover closest to the mandrel and get a 
clear picture down inside of there? Especially the little dog/cam? I know this 
will not be easy, but any help would be appreciated. I do not have anything in 
stock to compare this one too and can not remeber when I last worked on one.
Thank you,
George Vollema
Great Lakes Antique Phonograph
9496 N Woodbridge Ave
Bitely MI 49309
231-745-7175
victr...@triton.net
www.victroladoctor.com





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Re: [Phono-L] PDF attachment

[Rich]

Your pdf did post as it is pulled and linked to another server, works 
just fine.


On 09/27/2013 06:54 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote:

I completely forgot that you can't send attachments through the list. Please 
email me off list and I will be happy to send the PDF to you.

Thank you,
Melissa
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Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Viva-Tonal 810 Photo Needed

[Rich]

Cut and paste all of it, then it works.

On 09/22/2013 08:39 PM, john robles wrote:

Thanks, but those links cannot be opened. You get a 404 File Not Found warning.
John





  From: Arvin Casas it...@arvincasas.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Viva-Tonal 810 Photo Needed


Images can be attached actually.

If you look at Jim's original post and look for A non-text attachment was
scrubbed...  you will see a link to two images he attached (intentionally
or not - a signature perhaps?), scanned and cleared by the listserv.

Just a friendly fyi.

Arvin



On 9/22/13 6:54 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote:


Yo can't attach images to email coming to the board, you have to use
Photobucket or some other photo host and include a link to it.  If you
don't have photobucket you can send me the link via email and I'll upload
it to mine for everyone. Or email the pic directly to Jim.
John





From: RBaumbach phonol...@mac.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Viva-Tonal 810 Photo Needed


I see that the image did not come through, so it was probably too large.
Here is a second attempt with a smaller file.



On Sep 22, 2013, at 1:09 PM, RBaumbach phonol...@mac.com wrote:


I have attached a color image of the Columbia 810.  BTW, this image,
along with a number of other color images, is in the new edition of the
Columbia Phonograph Companion - Volume II.  There is more information
about the new edition here:


https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/columbia-phonograph-companion/id65814124
9?mt=11




Robert Baumbach

On Sep 22, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net
wrote:


In collecting antique phonographs, I like to obtain twins, that is
similar
but not identical models.Some years ago I obtained a Viva-Tonal 800
which not too long ago was sonically restored using information 
suggestions  provided by Anthony Sinclair carried out by local antique
phonograph repairman, Jeff Cecil  now gives excellent performance.
So I
was please to pick up its twin, the Viva-Tonal 810 at an antique mall
yesterday.However, the 810 has been stripped  is bereft of its
original
different color wood staining of different sections of the front doors,
floral design above the doors, etc.  I want to have its original
appearance
restored.The Viva-Tonal 810 came with a 1927 ad that gives some
idea of
how it originally looked as does the black-and-white illustration in
Baumbach's The Columbia Phonograph Companion - Volume II.However,
what
is needed to facilitate restoration of the decorative details is a
clear
color image of the Vival-Tonal 810.Can anyone provide such?



Many thanks for any help any of you may provide!





Jim Cartwright

IMMORTAL PERFORMANCES, INC

Austin's Eclectic Used Record Store Since 1971

1404 West 30th StreetAustin, Texas 78703-1402 USA

(512) 478-9954E-mail: jim...@earthlink.net





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Re: [Phono-L] Amberola Spring Re-greasing question

[Rich]

https://www.google.com/search?q=scotch+briteie=utf-8oe=utf-8aq=trls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialclient=firefox-a

On 09/04/2013 09:54 AM, Bob Maffit wrote:

What is: Scotch brite 
later

Bob

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 2:42 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola Spring Re-greasing question

Gently spring enough tabs to allow just popping the cover off. Scotch brite
the spring to remove all the ossified graphite and Vaseline that is hanging
it up. Relube with a high grade large clock spring lube or something like
this
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/synthetic-polymeric-truck-chass
is-and-equipment-grease-nlgi-1/?code=GPTR1CR-EA

On 09/02/2013 03:08 PM, john robles wrote:

Hello all
I have a question. I have an Amberola 75 that I got a a possible

trade/sale machine later on. For now I am keeping it. The springs are badly
in need of lubrication, and the leaves are coming apart as the machine plays
with noisy results.  The springs may even need replacement.  I have not
regreased Amberola springs before, and I see that the barrels are held
closed with metal tabs. To clean and grease the spring you have to unbend
them. Anyone done this with successful results (i.e. not breaking the tabs
while bending)?  I am tempted to buy another good spring barrel assembly
with quiet, well greased springs for $95 as opposed to doing it myself. If I
send it out, it would cost me over $100 to have it done by someone else. I
do spring replacement jobs on Edison phonos, but I don't like doing it!

What's your advice?
John Robles
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Re: [Phono-L] needing a b y nickel beauty ring for 12 3/8 turntable

[Rich]

Or make one from scratch.

On 09/04/2013 03:12 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

You might be able to get a musical instrument repair man to straighten it
out for you.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of zonophone2...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 3:27 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] needing a b y nickel beauty ring for 12 3/8 turntable

He was polishing it with a wheel
idiot he was







-Original Message-
From: John Robles john9...@pacbell.net
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] needing a b y nickel beauty ring for 12 3/8 turntable


If I may ask, how did he destroy it?
John

On Sep 4, 2013, at 10:37 AM, zonophone2...@aol.com wrote:


HI
He cant pay for it if i cant find one
oh well
no idea what its worth at this point but not a happy camper zono







-Original Message-
From: John Robles john9...@pacbell.net
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 12:13 pm
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] needing a b y nickel beauty ring for 12 3/8
turntable


I hope he paid for it!
John

On Sep 4, 2013, at 8:20 AM, zonophone2...@aol.com wrote:



hello all
just a shout out
i am having my by replated and the plater destroyed the by beauty
ring the one i need is the larger one for the 12 3/8 turntable i know
there is a smaller one for the 11 5/ 8 but i need the larger please
contact me off list if you have one available thanks zono



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Re: [Phono-L] Amberola Spring Re-greasing question

[Rich]

Gently spring enough tabs to allow just popping the cover off. Scotch 
brite the spring to remove all the ossified graphite and Vaseline that 
is hanging it up. Relube with a high grade large clock spring lube or 
something like this 
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/synthetic-polymeric-truck-chassis-and-equipment-grease-nlgi-1/?code=GPTR1CR-EA


On 09/02/2013 03:08 PM, john robles wrote:

Hello all
I have a question. I have an Amberola 75 that I got a a possible trade/sale 
machine later on. For now I am keeping it. The springs are badly in need of 
lubrication, and the leaves are coming apart as the machine plays with noisy 
results.  The springs may even need replacement.  I have not regreased Amberola 
springs before, and I see that the barrels are held closed with metal tabs. To 
clean and grease the spring you have to unbend them. Anyone done this with 
successful results (i.e. not breaking the tabs while bending)?  I am tempted to 
buy another good spring barrel assembly with quiet, well greased springs for 
$95 as opposed to doing it myself. If I send it out, it would cost me over $100 
to have it done by someone else. I do spring replacement jobs on Edison phonos, 
but I don't like doing it!
What's your advice?
John Robles
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Re: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

[Rich]

pot metal = zinc die casting The problem has not gone away, just a 
longer time to failure.


On 08/18/2013 07:26 AM, Steven Medved wrote:

Normally the Diamond B does not expand that much unless it was stored where 
temperatures varied over the years like an unheated attic where it got very 
cold in the winter and very hot in the summer.  Pot metal reproducer on 
Vancouver Island in the Victoria area remain pristine due to the relative small 
variance in temperature.

Edison compression rings vary in diameter from 1.59 to 1.69.  If the largest 
ring you have will not thread I use Teflon tape because it will allow easy 
removal.

With the Model R and S you have the opposite problem and need a smaller ring.  
That's Pot Metal Folks.

Steve



Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 04:39:49 -0700
From: john9...@pacbell.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

Hello all
I have a Diamond B reproducer with a curious problem. I went to rebuild it, and 
when I tried to unscrew the diaphragm retaining ring, it turned but did not 
want to come out. Finally I eased it out by unscrewing while working a small 
screwdriver blade under it to help push it outward. When it came out, I noticed 
that it had Scotch tape wrapped around it. When I removed the tape and went to 
screw it back into the reproducer, it fell to the bottom of the reproducer 
body. The threads did not engage with the body. I had another ring from a 
Diamond C and it did the same thing, but both rings worked in the Diamond C. I 
thought they were two different sized reproducer bodies, but apparently they 
are supposed to be the same diameter.
A knowledgeable collector friend suggested that the pot metal body of the 
Diamond B might have expanded. Has anyone else had this happen? What would be a 
solution, other than shimming the ring again? Or is that THE solution?
Thanks
John Robles
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Re: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

[Rich]

If it is a zinc die casting they were cast. The retaining rings were 
probably machined.


On 08/18/2013 08:36 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

I don't know if there are taps that size.  My guess is that a large rod was
threaded by cutting the threads in a lathe and then the rod was sliced to
make the rings.  The interior threads may have been lathe cut as well.

Ron

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Steven Medved
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 5:48 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

Ron L,

Excellent idea, I would lack the skill and equipment to do it, no wonder
that would never have entered my mind.

I have thought about a giant tap for the ones that have shrunk, do you know
the size?

Steve


From: lhera...@bu.edu
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 15:13:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

It's a brass ring, right?  I wonder if you could slit the ring and
soft solder in a spacer that is either just shy of the threads or
filed to match the threads?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 9:50 AM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

Steve, the diameter of both the Diamond B and Diamond C compressions
rings is 1.66. The inside diameter of the Diamond C body is 1.66. The
inner diameter of the Diamond B body ranges up to1.6730, and is
slightly inconsistent in circumference. So there is obvious enlargement

there.

John





  From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem


Normally the Diamond B does not expand that much unless it was stored
where temperatures varied over the years like an unheated attic where
it got very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer.  Pot metal
reproducer on Vancouver Island in the Victoria area remain pristine
due to the relative small variance in temperature.

Edison compression rings vary in diameter from 1.59 to 1.69.  If the
largest ring you have will not thread I use Teflon tape because it
will allow easy removal.

With the Model R and S you have the opposite problem and need a
smaller ring.  That's Pot Metal Folks.

Steve



Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 04:39:49 -0700
From: john9...@pacbell.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Curious Diamond B problem

Hello all
I have a Diamond B reproducer with a curious problem. I went to
rebuild

it, and when I tried to unscrew the diaphragm retaining ring, it
turned but did not want to come out. Finally I eased it out by
unscrewing while working a small screwdriver blade under it to help
push it outward. When it came out, I noticed that it had Scotch tape
wrapped around it. When I removed the tape and went to screw it back
into the reproducer, it fell to the bottom of the reproducer body. The
threads did not engage with the body. I had another ring from a
Diamond C and it did the same thing, but both rings worked in the
Diamond C. I thought they were two different sized reproducer bodies, but

apparently they are supposed to be the same diameter.

A knowledgeable collector friend suggested that the pot metal body
of the

Diamond B might have expanded. Has anyone else had this happen? What
would be a solution, other than shimming the ring again? Or is that THE

solution?

Thanks
John Robles
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Re: [Phono-L] Electric pen

[Rich]

The vote recorder was an early attempt to restrict/prevent ballot box 
stuffing. It is intuitively obvious that here would be loud and 
scurrilous resistance to such a device.


On 08/17/2013 11:10 AM, john robles wrote:

Hi Andrew
Yes, it alarms me how badly modern journalism is researched, especially items 
like this that are aimed at the younger public who doesn't have a long attention span. 
This article gives the impression that the electric pen was a writing instrument, not a 
tool for creating a stencil.
The vote recorder was a failure, I think, because it was sabotaged so much by 
those who didn't want votes in Congress cast against their purposes.  At least 
I have read of tampering with it in that way.
John





  From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electric pen


Hi John ~

A friend sent me this link this morning and I watched the video.  This may 
sound harsh (for me), but I found it to be typically inaccurate media-mill 
fodder, with a catchy segment title to attract a big audience.  Seems they're 
also catering to the contingent that's hungry to pounce on an Edison failure, 
perhaps?

In reality, wasn't the electric pen Edison's first successful mass-produced 
product; i.e., mass produced by Edison's own shops and marketed in America and 
Europe, keeping his first factory quite occupied during its brief heyday?  
While we know that
  although the apparatus was hard to maintain by untrained office staff, conceptually the 
idea was successful enough to attract lumber man A. B. Dick, who with the much simplified 
Edison's Mimeograph put himself on the map as a major office machine and 
supplies manufacturer.

Certainly it is true that the motorized pen was the ideal basis for the tattoo 
stylus (or whatever the right word might be).

A more accurate brief account than the tv.yahoo video:
http://edison.rutgers.edu/pen.htm

NOW FOR ACCURACY IN REPORTING
Edison's worst invention in terms of unsuccessful marketing, must have been 
his Electric Vote Recorder, his first issued patent unless I got this from a flawed 
history book.  None were manufactured beyond the prototype.

Andrew Baron
Santa Fe

On Aug 16, 2013, at 8:48 PM, john robles wrote:


Here is a clip on what was

  called Thomas Edison's Worst Invention. Of course it is not well 
researched, but it is an interesting wawtch!


http://tv.yahoo.com/video/playlist/primetime/thomas-edisons-worst-invention-061926628.html

John Robles
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Re: [Phono-L] Link to Complete Blue Amberol Catalog Download

[Rich]

The Enter is tagging onto your link so it breaks, needs a space between 
.com and Enter


On 08/11/2013 10:10 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

The complete catalog can be downloaded from: www.carolinaphonosociety.comEnter 
the site and on the second page click on the PDF symbol to download it.If you 
run into any problems, please let me know.Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?

[Rich]

The easy way to get all of this plated is to ship it off to Steve 
Farmer. It will probably be both quicker and cheaper than the DIY boy 
chemist approach.


On 06/25/2013 10:46 PM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Yeah, color matching in the graphics design world as well as other
industries is more complicated than most people understand.  One man's
gold is another man's trash, to reverse the cliché.  Unfortunately I'm not
aware of any system such as Pantone that can be applied to metal finishing
- at least for lowly phono plebs.  It would be great to match my tonearm
to a standard, get its code and have a finish replicated for it
chemically.

I have seen other options via a few cursory and early searches, but my
query to the group was in the hope that someone might have a
recommendation based on experience, even if negative.  Of course I'm
always keen to experiment for the sake of continuing the knowledge of our
hobby  (as I know you know Ron from those funny posts of mine on MOCAPS-
laughing at not with me - regarding my trying to grow cactus for needles
here in MA).  This last venture out into terra incognita however, was a
little further into hostile territory than I normally prefer to endure.
That's why I was hoping others out there might have had at least some
cursory experience for me to explore further.  A few pennies lost or in
vain is one thing, I don't enjoy risking my person.

Speaking of risks to health, are there any chemists out there who could
chime in with any information on what to avoid?  While I don't think we
have a hall of martyrs for the preservation and restorations of things
phonographic, I'd hate to be the one to inaugurate its building, lol.

Arvin


On 6/25/13 10:49 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote:


Seems to me Caswell sells/sold a real gold plate kit too.  The problem
with
Gold, and nickel too, but not as bad, is that it is hard to match gold
colors.  A little difference in karat amount or a few different other
chemicals and you have a different gold color, greener, yellower,
whatever.
Have you tried googling home electroplating kits or brush plating kits?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
Behalf Of Arvin Casas
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:50 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?

Hello All,

I hope your summers have all started off well!

I was wondering if any of you had any recommendations for home plating?
(No, that is not some variation on getting on base on a first date, but in
regards to metal plate finishing as can be done at home.)

Always the willing guinea pig for our hobby, I tried the Caswell Plug N'
Plate system and had some success with their Nickel product, but only
so-so
success with their faux Gold.  (When I tried contacting their customer
service to troubleshoot, the owner came off as a bit emotionally
incendiary in his replies to a newbie, so I decided it's not worth me
continuing to experiment or use their products.)

Are there any other possible approaches or solutions?  I have a few gold
plated pieces that have suffered some damage over the years prior to my
coming into them, and I was hoping, short of sending them out (which I
believe is priced per pound), to see if there was something I could try at
home on the few pieces that I have that need restoration / preservation.
I
recall reading about home-brewed tank solutions (mixing gold chloride
etc.,.
using batteries), but can't recall where (or if they worked).

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Arvin


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Re: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?

[Rich]

The physical equipment required to properly plate anything is expensive 
and in some cases difficult to obtain and must be constructed from 
scratch. The chemicals required to do the various required cleaning 
steps are difficult/expensive to obtain in small quantities and toxic. 
The mechanical prep is difficult and again requires polishing equipment 
not commonly available. I have looked into this several times and the 
result is always the same, high cost - less than desired results as a 
DIY project. There are some things you can pull off at home and some you 
can not. Gold and nickel plating of used antique parts is not easily 
done even if you can successfully get the part properly polished and 
cleaned. The smoothness - shine of the final product is determined by 
degree of polish of the unplated part.


The electroless nickel process works well for easily polished small 
parts such as screws and levers but become prohibitively expensive on 
larger pieces but it does work. There are several different formulations 
of the plating bath and the ones that plate the best are also the ones 
that are difficult to obtain due to the shipping restrictions, and human 
- environmental hazards


On 06/26/2013 07:17 AM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Thanks Rich.  Have you tried home plating yourself (or consider it at
all)?  How did you find it in the end better for you to send it out?  How
badly off was/were the piece(s) you that required refinishing?

I'm genuinely interested in understanding how you came to your conclusion.
  Was it simply a matter of weighing cost and time or were there other
factors?

I'm not looking to do this for speed of result or cost efficiency.  I
recognize that an inherent third in the iron triangle is quality which
ideally I'd like to preserve, but if for learning purposes that is
sacrificed I'm willing to do, to a point.  Plating in my mind is not
irreparable, as say major woodworking, so I see no harm picking my 2/3 in
learning how a good job is done.

That's how I approach this hobby (as well as all my others). My research
and appreciation of the invention, innovation, and evolution of
phonographs includes exploring the mechanics of their inner workings and
the methods and processes of their manufacture and restoration.

I know one can easily just order one's dinner made, but sometimes it's
beneficial to learn how to cook, even if only to better appreciate a well
prepared meal, at least for me.



On 6/26/13 1:50 AM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote:


The easy way to get all of this plated is to ship it off to Steve
Farmer. It will probably be both quicker and cheaper than the DIY boy
chemist approach.

On 06/25/2013 10:46 PM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Yeah, color matching in the graphics design world as well as other
industries is more complicated than most people understand.  One man's
gold is another man's trash, to reverse the cliché.  Unfortunately I'm
not
aware of any system such as Pantone that can be applied to metal
finishing
- at least for lowly phono plebs.  It would be great to match my tonearm
to a standard, get its code and have a finish replicated for it
chemically.

I have seen other options via a few cursory and early searches, but my
query to the group was in the hope that someone might have a
recommendation based on experience, even if negative.  Of course I'm
always keen to experiment for the sake of continuing the knowledge of
our
hobby  (as I know you know Ron from those funny posts of mine on
MOCAPS-
laughing at not with me - regarding my trying to grow cactus for needles
here in MA).  This last venture out into terra incognita however, was a
little further into hostile territory than I normally prefer to endure.
That's why I was hoping others out there might have had at least some
cursory experience for me to explore further.  A few pennies lost or in
vain is one thing, I don't enjoy risking my person.

Speaking of risks to health, are there any chemists out there who could
chime in with any information on what to avoid?  While I don't think we
have a hall of martyrs for the preservation and restorations of things
phonographic, I'd hate to be the one to inaugurate its building, lol.

Arvin


On 6/25/13 10:49 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote:


Seems to me Caswell sells/sold a real gold plate kit too.  The problem
with
Gold, and nickel too, but not as bad, is that it is hard to match gold
colors.  A little difference in karat amount or a few different other
chemicals and you have a different gold color, greener, yellower,
whatever.
Have you tried googling home electroplating kits or brush plating kits?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
Behalf Of Arvin Casas
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:50 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?

Hello All,

I hope your summers have all started off well!

I was wondering if any of you had any recommendations for home

Re: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 10, Issue 137

[Rich]

760-726-7402
Farmerized1 -at- Juno.com

On 06/26/2013 09:23 AM, GAYLE VOISINE, BECKY VOISINE wrote:

  Hello out there!

   Rich, in particular. You mentioned Steve Farmer. I would like the contact 
info to send some parts out to get re- nickeled. The guy I have tried doesn’t 
do a great job. He puts the nickel on so heavy that the parts don’t fit back 
together.

A phone number or address would be great. Thank you all!!!





Gayle



  Someone mentioned Steve Far



Sent from Windows Mail


From: phono-l-requ...@oldcrank.org
Sent: ‎June‎ ‎26‎, ‎2013 ‎7‎:‎48‎ ‎AM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Phono-L Digest, Vol 10, Issue 137



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digest in your message.

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Home Plating Recommendations? (Ron L'Herault)
2. Victor I or E elbow (harvey kravitz)
3. Re: Top After Market Othrophonic Reproducers (DanKj)
4. Re: Home Plating Recommendations? (Arvin Casas)
5. Re: Home Plating Recommendations? (Rich)
6. Need Victor V (or D or VI) back bracket (Nicholas Williams)
7. Re: Home Plating Recommendations? (Arvin Casas)
8. Re: Top After Market Othrophonic Reproducers (Arvin Casas)
9. Re: Home Plating Recommendations? (Rich)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 22:49:39 -0400
From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu
To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?
Message-ID: 005401ce7217$ce019eb0$6a04dc10$@edu
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=US-ASCII

Seems to me Caswell sells/sold a real gold plate kit too.  The problem with
Gold, and nickel too, but not as bad, is that it is hard to match gold
colors.  A little difference in karat amount or a few different other
chemicals and you have a different gold color, greener, yellower, whatever.
Have you tried googling home electroplating kits or brush plating kits?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Arvin Casas
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:50 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?

Hello All,

I hope your summers have all started off well!

I was wondering if any of you had any recommendations for home plating?
(No, that is not some variation on getting on base on a first date, but in
regards to metal plate finishing as can be done at home.)

Always the willing guinea pig for our hobby, I tried the Caswell Plug N'
Plate system and had some success with their Nickel product, but only so-so
success with their faux Gold.  (When I tried contacting their customer
service to troubleshoot, the owner came off as a bit emotionally
incendiary in his replies to a newbie, so I decided it's not worth me
continuing to experiment or use their products.)

Are there any other possible approaches or solutions?  I have a few gold
plated pieces that have suffered some damage over the years prior to my
coming into them, and I was hoping, short of sending them out (which I
believe is priced per pound), to see if there was something I could try at
home on the few pieces that I have that need restoration / preservation.  I
recall reading about home-brewed tank solutions (mixing gold chloride etc.,.
using batteries), but can't recall where (or if they worked).

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Arvin


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--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: harvey kravitz harveykrav...@yahoo.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Victor I or E elbow
Message-ID:
 1372217940.40538.yahoomail...@web161204.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I am looking for a decent Victor I or E elbow. Please contact me off list.
Harvey Kravitz


--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 00:17:48 -0400
From: DanKj ediso...@verizon.net
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Top After Market Othrophonic Reproducers
Message-ID: C6A64A1737F94C6BBFF03EAC5FB69F32@moms
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
 reply-type=original

Brunswick used excellent reproducers on their Panatrope acoustic
models;  of all my portables, the Brunswick sounds best.
I don't know the model name or number

Re: [Phono-L] Home Plating Recommendations?

[Rich]

Have no knowledge on the status of Steve Farmer. I suspect the was 
sending plating jobs out to a small shop who would do small part 
correctly. The price is a combination of labor and weight of metal plated.


On 06/26/2013 09:23 AM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Thanks Rich.  That's good to know and your explanation is much
appreciated.

As I determined from the little wall adapter wand kit I got, it seemed
best for use on tiny bits, such as screw heads and smaller accent pieces.
I guess I luckily had some success with the nickel on my tonearm (it's a
smaller section of a portable Columbia in the 16X series), but trying to
over plate it with gold product had its issues, mostly due to the
difficulty in getting proper coverage and tone (the unnecessary dramatics
I had leveled on me when making post sale inquiries notwithstanding, lol ).

It is my understanding from having fasteners plated (not for me but for a
vendor I know), that any plating is best ordered in bulk as the jobs are
among other factors priced by weight.  Has the group (or a group) ever
gotten together for a job?

You mentioned Steve Farmer.  From my reading on other resources it sounds
like he may or may not still offer his services (I take such information
gleaned with a lump of salt).  Is he available as of 2013?  If so I'd
appreciate an introduction.

Thanks again Rich and all listening in.




On 6/26/13 9:22 AM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote:


The physical equipment required to properly plate anything is expensive
and in some cases difficult to obtain and must be constructed from
scratch. The chemicals required to do the various required cleaning
steps are difficult/expensive to obtain in small quantities and toxic.
The mechanical prep is difficult and again requires polishing equipment
not commonly available. I have looked into this several times and the
result is always the same, high cost - less than desired results as a
DIY project. There are some things you can pull off at home and some you
can not. Gold and nickel plating of used antique parts is not easily
done even if you can successfully get the part properly polished and
cleaned. The smoothness - shine of the final product is determined by
degree of polish of the unplated part.

The electroless nickel process works well for easily polished small
parts such as screws and levers but become prohibitively expensive on
larger pieces but it does work. There are several different formulations
of the plating bath and the ones that plate the best are also the ones
that are difficult to obtain due to the shipping restrictions, and human
- environmental hazards

On 06/26/2013 07:17 AM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Thanks Rich.  Have you tried home plating yourself (or consider it at
all)?  How did you find it in the end better for you to send it out?
How
badly off was/were the piece(s) you that required refinishing?

I'm genuinely interested in understanding how you came to your
conclusion.
   Was it simply a matter of weighing cost and time or were there other
factors?

I'm not looking to do this for speed of result or cost efficiency.  I
recognize that an inherent third in the iron triangle is quality which
ideally I'd like to preserve, but if for learning purposes that is
sacrificed I'm willing to do, to a point.  Plating in my mind is not
irreparable, as say major woodworking, so I see no harm picking my 2/3
in
learning how a good job is done.

That's how I approach this hobby (as well as all my others). My research
and appreciation of the invention, innovation, and evolution of
phonographs includes exploring the mechanics of their inner workings and
the methods and processes of their manufacture and restoration.

I know one can easily just order one's dinner made, but sometimes it's
beneficial to learn how to cook, even if only to better appreciate a
well
prepared meal, at least for me.



On 6/26/13 1:50 AM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote:


The easy way to get all of this plated is to ship it off to Steve
Farmer. It will probably be both quicker and cheaper than the DIY boy
chemist approach.

On 06/25/2013 10:46 PM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Yeah, color matching in the graphics design world as well as other
industries is more complicated than most people understand.  One man's
gold is another man's trash, to reverse the cliché.  Unfortunately I'm
not
aware of any system such as Pantone that can be applied to metal
finishing
- at least for lowly phono plebs.  It would be great to match my
tonearm
to a standard, get its code and have a finish replicated for it
chemically.

I have seen other options via a few cursory and early searches, but my
query to the group was in the hope that someone might have a
recommendation based on experience, even if negative.  Of course I'm
always keen to experiment for the sake of continuing the knowledge of
our
hobby  (as I know you know Ron from those funny posts of mine on
MOCAPS-
laughing at not with me - regarding my trying to grow cactus for
needles
here in MA

Re: [Phono-L] Phonoscope and Talking Machine World on line

[Rich]

You are looking at a Flash representation of the pdf image.

On 05/24/2013 06:48 PM, DanKj wrote:

I just wish these weren't via the Internet Archive, as they usually have
the worst quality PDF files anywhere.  I don't know what they do to
them, but despite being huge files, they're often unreadable.  Lots of
the text  most of the illustrations in their Phonoscope file are blobs
of mush. Here's a screen-shot to show what I mean:

https://www.box.com/s/27eaim7yyinhihpsnku2





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Re: [Phono-L] Asbestos in Edison records

[Rich]

Plaster of Paris and rock salt.

On 05/15/2013 06:12 PM, Steven Medved wrote:

I don't so I always appreciate credible correctors.

Steve


To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
From: gpaul2...@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:42:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Asbestos in Edison records

Don't believe everything you read!


George P.



-Original Message-
From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com
To: phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 5:33 pm
Subject: [Phono-L] Asbestos in Edison records


I have read that the blue Amberol plaster of Paris has asbestos.  Did the
Diamond Discs as well?  Normally this would not cause any concern, but people
that ream blue Amberols should be careful.

Steve

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Re: [Phono-L] Weird things to do just for a part.

[Rich]

The validity of Postal Money Orders can be verified by taking the serial 
numbers to the USPS and they will call the fraud unit and verify them. 
Postal Money Orders are real popular for forgery.


On 05/08/2013 06:08 PM, chuck richards wrote:

How about paying with a postal money order?
Just go to the post office, have it made
payable to the seller, purchase it, put it
in an envelope and mail it to him.  It's as good as
cash.  He can cash it right at his local post office.

That way, it should not matter to him whether you exist
or not.  He gets his money and sends the part to you.

Do you really exist or not?  Wow!!  Now I have heard
them all!!

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: pjfra...@mac.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Weird things to do just for a part.
Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 14:40:48 -0700


I'm of course baffled by this.  In all my years of collecting, I've

never encountered anyone who is the slightest bit strange, odd,
paranoid, socially awkward, difficult, maladjusted, or otherwise
different from the accepted mainstream.


And I know none of the rest of you ever ever have, either.

(I'm NOT winking.  I must have something stuck in my eye.)

-- Peter
pjfra...@mac.com



On May 8, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote:


Boy, this Gary guy seems a bit paranoid.  He could always wait for

the check

to clear before sending the speaker.   OTOH, I think you can post

private

video to Youtube.   You'd send the link to Gary and tell him to

let you know

when he'd seen it.  Then you could remove it, I would think.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org

[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On

Behalf Of Arvin Casas
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:58 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Weird things to do just for a part.

Hi All,

I have a weird question.  In the process of restoring or acquiring

pieces

for your phonographs, have sellers asked you to do odd things

beyond

cutting a check?

I'm trying to restore my Columbia-Kolster Viva-Tonal 950 and found

a guy on

youtube who has a speaker that matches what my 950 used to have.

I contacted the seller, we negotiated a price.  I tried to send

him payment

through my bank's electronic system (kinda like Paypal but not so

many fees)

but he said he had been ripped off that way and refused payment.

Complying with his wishes, I was in the midst of cutting him a

paper check

(this time written by my bank and delivered by courier) when he

backed out

saying the whole thing was fishy.

This seller, Gary in Wisconsin, now wants me to shoot my own

youtube video

showing me and my 950 to prove that I exist. It's a little more

than I'm

comfortable doing.

(Despite the fact that I'm often compared to Cary Grant, I'm not
particularly fond of videoing myself and posting them publicly.)

Gary says all the radio people do it, so I should too.

Has anybody else been put through the wringer like this just for a

part?

Those of you who cross dabble with Radios, do you often video

yourself on

youtube?

My faith in humanity was sucker punched by this weirdness.  Just

wondering

what others think and what other stories people might like to

share, odd,

weird, or otherwise.

Best Wishes from Massachusetts!

Arvin


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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Portable V-2-55 - Inner Paint Recommendations

[Rich]

The bronzing powders and a binder work well and are authentic to the 
original.


On 04/17/2013 02:55 PM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Hello All Phonograph Gurus and Aficionados,

I recently picked up a Victor orthophonic portable, the VV-2-55.  It's
structurally and mechanically sound with the outer / inner fabrokoid in good
shape (record pocket, turntable, etc.,), but the rest of the inner case
needs aesthetic attention, most notably the paint on the motor board and
tonearm.

The bronze color on mine has many blackened areas which could be dirt or
just worn off paint.  The yellow brassy-gold paint of the reproducer and
tonearm could use some touch-up as well.

Has any body repainted theirs?  Any recommendations on paints and materials?
I know one site believes these originally had crackle gold paint inside
(which I see in one tiny spot), but I don't think I want to restore it to
that level of bling.   The old bronze look is fine by me.

I've dabbled in the dry metallic finishes found in art / craft stores,
including the faux silver foils you apply like gold and silver foil (I've
used it as make-do chrome on screw heads).  They also make a dry powder you
can mix with a liquid or brush on dry and seal.  I don't know if that would
be a viable option vs regular old metallic paints.

Any cleaning or painting recommendations would be welcome.

Thanks,

Arvin




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Re: [Phono-L] abefed...@gmail.com wants to follow you. Accept?

[Rich]

My point exactly.Many of you have included the bad link. You are 
spreading the spam and this is how the unsuspecting get caught and how 
your entire address book get hijacked. Do not reply or forward etc spam 
with intact bad links.


On 04/16/2013 02:16 AM, Arvin Casas wrote:

I think to be safe, should any of these pop up (and they will, especially
as this list, with messages, easy to decipher email addresses, etc., is
archived on the web and can be indexed and crawled by Google and worse -
spam bots), you should clip out the offending links in your reply if you
wish to warn folks.

The more a link is quoted in replies, the more the bad stuff continues
to live another minute, to catch another unsuspecting or accidental click.

Arvin


On 4/16/13 2:29 AM, Mike Stittsmst...@gmail.com  wrote:


We are replying and warning, not forwarding?
Mike


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Richrich-m...@octoxol.com  wrote:


So, why keep forwarding the bad link? Trim

On 04/15/2013 10:37 PM, Mike Stitt wrote:


I use WOT and it all lit up red.No, no no...
Oldcranky


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Andrew Barona...@popyrus.com   wrote:

  snip.

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Re: [Phono-L] abefed...@gmail.com wants to follow you. Accept?

[Rich]

I cut out the bad link and asked the other people to please do the same 
thing instead of just replying with the spam link intact. This is how 
spam is spread.


On 04/16/2013 01:29 AM, Mike Stitt wrote:

We are replying and warning, not forwarding?
Mike


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Richrich-m...@octoxol.com  wrote:


So, why keep forwarding the bad link? Trim

On 04/15/2013 10:37 PM, Mike Stitt wrote:


I use WOT and it all lit up red.No, no no...
Oldcranky


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Andrew Barona...@popyrus.com   wrote:

  snip.

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Re: [Phono-L] Bad links

[Rich]

G-mail has serious flaws, that is one of them.

On 04/16/2013 09:22 AM, Mike Stitt wrote:

Re bad links. I use gmail. What I see is the original mail with bad links
and a thread with replies.It does not repeat the bad links at all. In fact
after a reply or two the original links and email are collapsed. You do
not see them. If one is to start a new email that would be just that but
would be confusing to some. So be it, unless some one's a hunting for it.
Back to phonographs.
Don't click on the links btw to all that read this...
oldcranky
Mike
PS So you know I threw the thread into the trash and every time  others
have replied it pops back in my 'inbox with the bad links and I put it
back into the trash. This is why I have sent this email as a stand alone.
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Re: [Phono-L] Amberola III saga on EBay - an update with a twist

[Rich]

This is what happens when a seller decides to disassemble an item and 
peddle the parts. I see this a lot on flea-bay and it is almost always a 
looser for the seller but these sellers do not care as all they are 
after is the $$$. You see them at auctions bidding on items to sell with 
absolutely no idea what they are or what they may be worth. They are 
just another human equivalent of the cockroach.


On 03/25/2013 03:37 AM, Anil Menon wrote:

I know this has been an emotional and heated issue for many of us on this board and on the ATM forum. Some of you know 
that after discussions with Al, George and Rene, I decided to save the Amberola. After several efforts to 
buy the machine outright and offering and getting rebuffed on a 3,500 dollar offer in my second effort, I decided to go 
after all 7 items. The seller, Leilani Gillard from Peachland, BC, said to me what she told others on this forum, 
namely, if you win all items, I will give you the cabinet and everything else that came with the machine. 
Well, I won 5 of the items, lost the horn to a bidder from Australia, and the lid went unsold. I offered to buy the lid 
and pay for the rest. The seller came back with a new offer of an additional 500 dollars for the cabinet. I 
replied firmly no way and asked her to meet her commitment.

And, well, in the catgegory of a never ending saga, here is a new twist on the Amberoa 
III. Now, she has come back saying that she is canceling all of the 7 bids and relisting 
as entire machine...see her principled stance below! What a scream! I guess 
she wants to get a higher return than what she got...this is adding stupidity on top of 
greed?

Enjoy the read below:-) Anil

Dear 

I am going to cancel all the auction you won and realist the machine as one 
unite. I hope you understand . I already told the guy who won the horn i wasn't 
going to sell it. I will give you your refund back. I hope you understand i am 
just doing the right thing. It not about the money now. Regards Lelani

- peachland250


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Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Copyright Protection That Serves to Destroy (Journal)

[Rich]

The entire body of patent, copyright and intellectual property law is an 
absolute mess. Refer to United States constitution Article 1, Section 8, 
clause 8. You can find some serious historical thought on the subject 
here. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_8_8.html


Congress has been fixing this for about 225 years, it is way broke now.

On 03/15/2013 10:21 AM, Peter Fraser wrote:

Interesting article!

This guy recently authored a biography of Louis Armstrong, btw.

Sent from my iPad

-- Peter
pjfra...@mac.com

Begin forwarded message:


From: ʞɐıuzoʍ ǝʌǝʇs st...@woz.org
Date: March 15, 2013, 6:44:27 AM PDT
To: undisclosed-recipients: ;
Subject: Copyright Protection That Serves to Destroy (Journal)

Copyright Protection That Serves to Destroy

By TERRY TEACHOUT   wsj

What is a library? Until fairly recently, the answer to that question was simple: It's a 
storehouse for books and manuscripts. The fact that books are increasingly 
printed on something other than paper doesn't change the fundamental purpose 
of libraries. They are our collective memory. Fortunately for posterity, a well-made book 
isn't hard to preserve. But in 1877, Thomas Edison invented a new way to preserve the 
past. He called it the phonograph, and it took a long time for librarians to figure out 
that the echoes of speech and music that Edison and his successors etched on discs were 
as important a part of our collective memory as the words that Johannes Gutenberg and his 
successors printed on paper.

Nowadays most people understand the historical significance of recorded sound, 
and libraries around the world are preserving as much of it as possible. But 
recording technology has evolved much faster than did printing technology—so 
fast, in fact, that librarians can't keep up with it. It's hard enough to 
preserve a wax cylinder originally cut in 1900, but how do you preserve an MP3 
file? Might it fade over time? And will anybody still know how to play it a 
quarter-century from now? If you're old enough to remember floppy disks, you'll 
get the point at once: A record, unlike a book, is only as durable as our 
ability to play it back.

The Library of Congress recently issued a 78-page document called The Library of 
Congress National Recording Preservation Plan whose purpose is to ensure that our 
descendants will be able to listen to the sounds of the past long after we're dead and 
gone. It contains 32 recommendations, most of which, I suspect, will be filed and 
forgotten. Given the present state of the economy, I can't imagine that anyone on Capitol 
Hill sees the preservation of sound recordings as a top priority. But Congress can do one 
important thing that will help to save our sonic history without costing a cent: We need 
to straighten out America's confused copyright laws, and we need to do it now.

In Europe, sound recordings enter the public domain 50 years after their initial release. Once that 
happens, anyone can reissue them, which makes it easy for Europeans to purchase classic records of 
the past. In America, by contrast, sound recordings are protected by a prohibitive 
snarl of federal and state legislation whose effect was summed up in a report issued in 2010 by the 
National Recording Preservation Board of the Library of Congress: The effective term of 
copyright protection for even the oldest U.S. recordings, dating from the late 19th century, will 
not end until the year 2067 at the earliest.… Thus, a published U.S. sound recording created in 
1890 will not enter the public domain until 177 years after its creation, constituting a term of 
rights protection 82 years longer than that of all other forms of audio visual works made for 
hire.

Among countless other undesirable things, this means that American record 
companies that aren't interested in reissuing old records can stop anyone else 
from doing so, and can also stop libraries from making those same records 
readily accessible to scholars who want to use them for noncommercial purposes. 
Even worse, it means that American libraries cannot legally copy records made 
before 1972 to digital formats for the purpose of preservation—not unless those 
records have already deteriorated to the point where they may soon become 
unplayable.

That's crazy.

As part of its preservation plan for sound recording, the Library of Congress 
has made three common-sense recommendations for copyright reform:

• Bring sound recordings fixed before February 15, 1972, under federal copyright 
law.

• Enable recordings whose copyright owners cannot be identified or located to be 
more readily preserved and accessed legally.

• Revise section 108 of the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976 in order to facilitate 
preservation and expand public access to sound recordings.

These recommendations are discussed in detail in The Library of Congress National 
Recording Preservation Plan, which you can read online by searching for that title.

Yes, intellectual property 

Re: [Phono-L] Help with a value please

[Rich]

They are also usually the odd number size, 1,3,5,7,9, etc which makes 
them very close to impossible to find. They are also heat blued and oil 
quenched. Hydrochloric acid takes off the zinc. 
http://www.boltdepot.com/Wood_screws_Slotted_round_head_Zinc_plated_steel.aspx


On 03/08/2013 04:48 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

Finding slotted screws can be tough.  I'd say they're worth around a buck
each 8-).

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Jordan
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 4:29 PM
To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
Subject: [Phono-L] Help with a value please


Hi Everyone,
I was wandering through one of those little hole in the wall antique stores
today and made a purchase. I hope that I got a good deal.

I found a nice clean little tabletop Edison DX in an oak cabinet. Serial
number 22676.  It's got the usual grime that a gentle cleaning should take
care of.  It's a strong runner and plays nicely.  The only thing missing is
the bedplate screws that hold it in the case.

Can anyone tell me what one of those is worth in today's market?

I have some old auction books, but the market has changed so much that I
don't think that they are still accurate.
Tom

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Re: [Phono-L] Help with a value please

[Rich]

Ph decreaser is an acid. Sodium Bisulfate sometimes called a dry acid.

On 03/08/2013 08:17 PM, David Dazer wrote:

I use pH decreaser from the swimming pool to remove the zinc plating.  It is
sold as a dry powder and so much easier to keep around than acid.  Just a little
bit disolved in water will work very well to strip the zinc before heat bluing
and oil quenching,
Dave





From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Fri, March 8, 2013 6:21:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Help with a value please

They are also usually the odd number size, 1,3,5,7,9, etc which makes
them very close to impossible to find. They are also heat blued and oil
quenched. Hydrochloric acid takes off the zinc.
http://www.boltdepot.com/Wood_screws_Slotted_round_head_Zinc_plated_steel.aspx

On 03/08/2013 04:48 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

Finding slotted screws can be tough.  I'd say they're worth around a buck
each 8-).

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Jordan
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 4:29 PM
To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
Subject: [Phono-L] Help with a value please


Hi Everyone,
I was wandering through one of those little hole in the wall antique stores
today and made a purchase. I hope that I got a good deal.

I found a nice clean little tabletop Edison DX in an oak cabinet. Serial
number 22676.  It's got the usual grime that a gentle cleaning should take
care of.  It's a strong runner and plays nicely.  The only thing missing is
the bedplate screws that hold it in the case.

Can anyone tell me what one of those is worth in today's market?

I have some old auction books, but the market has changed so much that I
don't think that they are still accurate.
Tom

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Re: [Phono-L] What?!?

[Rich]

DING, DING, DING, we have a winner!!!

On 02/24/2013 12:45 PM, Andrew Baron wrote:

And why would they have one auction with a Buy it Now and one without, unless 
the first (staged?) one was designed to make an unwary buyer think that they 
were getting a screaming deal to do the B.I.N.

Andrew Baron
Santa Fe

On Feb 24, 2013, at 11:28 AM, aph4...@aol.com wrote:


Merle,
Have you noticed that the one sold and the one for sale for $350 are the
same machine?  Same seller.  Mumbai, India. Very fishy.
--Art Heller


In a message dated 2/24/2013 10:51:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
msprin...@gmail.com writes:

For an  example of what happens when two naïve bidders just have to have
something,  see the bidding on eBay #111013678879.  And there's another
almost  identical machine on eBay right now by the same seller with a
buy-it-now  price of $350.  But maybe I'm not seeing something that makes
this  machine extra special.
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Re: [Phono-L] What?!?

[Rich]

No fees on non paying bidder.

On 02/24/2013 02:11 PM, Andrew Baron wrote:

Great point.  I hadn't gotten that far in my thinking.  I wonder if the seller 
can simply report that the high bidder was a deadbeat.

Perhaps as long as Paypal doesn't see the purported funds, this might be easy 
for them to do.  Still it seems they'd have listing fees, which would be 
minimal.

Andy

On Feb 24, 2013, at 12:39 PM, aph4...@aol.com wrote:


Andy,
If the first auction were to have been staged by shill bidders, and  the
item sold, would they not have to pay a hefty fee to eBay for the sale at
that lofty amount?
--Art Heller


In a message dated 2/24/2013 12:27:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
a...@popyrus.com writes:

And why  would they have one auction with a Buy it Now and one without,
unless the  first (staged?) one was designed to make an unwary buyer think that
they were  getting a screaming deal to do the B.I.N.

Andrew  Baron
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Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

[Rich]

The statement ___short in the motor somewhere___ is shop speak that 
you don't want to pay what it will cost for us to figure out how to fix 
it. What Barry said is where to start. The wiring is a mess as well.


On 02/15/2013 08:15 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

I don't know if it's because I am using Google Chrome, but my posts get run together. If 
you copy that previous link, leave Curt off of the end.  
http://open1234.wix.com/camps-site/twilight-zone-2#!__fairy-phono-lamp


From: vinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:53:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

Al,Thanks for the reply. As you noted, I have been advised that it was a short 
in the motor somewhere. The problem seems to be that this motor is wound for 
three different types of power - AC/DC and maybe 220. So, either the shops 
don't know what the problem is or they just don't want to mess with it... I'm 
tending toward the latter, since the guys I sent it to are very knowledgeable. 
There is a picture of the motor on our website: www.carolinaphonosociety.com
A shortcut to the pic is: 
http://open1234.wix.com/camps-site/twilight-zone-2#!__fairy-phono-lampCurt


To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
From: clockworkh...@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 04:01:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question


Induction motors that lack torque can usually be traced to an open field coil 
or an open armature loop.  A shorted turn will eat torque but the motor will 
let you know by getting hot.  How about a photo of the motor?  Most good motor 
shops can fix anything from fractional horsepower to 100 HP.Do you know of 
a fan collector in your area?   I have repaired fan motors that lost power and 
have the same symptoms of your phonograph.  These things are not rocket science.

Best wishes,
Al

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Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

[Rich]

Universal Motor means that it will run on AC and DC and various voltages.

On 02/15/2013 10:27 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

OK, if it is a universal motor... where would I find one? Are there any specs 
on universal motors - rpms, amps, hp, etc.? This motor is puzzling since it 
doesn't have an ID or any spec info.


Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:04:15 -0600
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

That looks suspiciously like a universal motor, runs on AC or DC and
various voltages from 63v to 240v with the aid of the resistor.

On 02/15/2013 08:15 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

I don't know if it's because I am using Google Chrome, but my posts get run together. If 
you copy that previous link, leave Curt off of the end.  
http://open1234.wix.com/camps-site/twilight-zone-2#!__fairy-phono-lamp


From: vinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 08:53:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

Al,Thanks for the reply. As you noted, I have been advised that it was a short 
in the motor somewhere. The problem seems to be that this motor is wound for 
three different types of power - AC/DC and maybe 220. So, either the shops 
don't know what the problem is or they just don't want to mess with it... I'm 
tending toward the latter, since the guys I sent it to are very knowledgeable. 
There is a picture of the motor on our website: www.carolinaphonosociety.com
A shortcut to the pic is: 
http://open1234.wix.com/camps-site/twilight-zone-2#!__fairy-phono-lampCurt


To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
From: clockworkh...@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 04:01:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question


Induction motors that lack torque can usually be traced to an open field coil 
or an open armature loop.  A shorted turn will eat torque but the motor will 
let you know by getting hot.  How about a photo of the motor?  Most good motor 
shops can fix anything from fractional horsepower to 100 HP.Do you know of 
a fan collector in your area?   I have repaired fan motors that lost power and 
have the same symptoms of your phonograph.  These things are not rocket science.

Best wishes,
Al

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Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

[Rich]

He was advised that it was a short. You are correct that the correct 
condition condition description is OPEN Circuit. If the fields happen to 
be in parallel then that would be where I would start looking.


On 02/15/2013 01:04 PM, Jim Nichol wrote:

Al didn't say you had a short.  He said you had an open.  They are opposites of each 
other.  He only mentioned shorted turns to imply that they are NOT likely to be the problem.

A broken wire is an open, resulting in zero current.  A short is two wires touching each other, causing the current 
to take a shorter path than intended. In a lamp cord a short would blow a fuse, whereas an open would prevent current from 
flowing.  I recommend not saying short when you mean open (though many electrical novices do). If you said you 
thought the motor has a short at a repair shop, it would mark you as unknowledgeable, maybe setting yourself up to be ripped 
off.

The symptom of an open in your motor would be that nothing happens at all.  On the 
other hand, saying the motor has a short (or more specifically shorted turns) means 
that a few of the loops of wire in the coils are shorted together, causing the current to bypass 
them.  This would lower the overall resistance of the coils, thus increasing the current. The motor 
would still run, but would have less magnetic torque (because some of the turns of wire are not 
carrying current), and the remaining turns would get hot.

Sorry for the lecture, but as an electrical engineer, this is one of my pet 
peeves.

Jim

On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com  wrote:


Al,Thanks for the reply. As you noted, I have been advised that it was a short 
in the motor somewhere. The problem seems to be that this motor is wound for 
three different types of power - AC/DC and maybe 220. So, either the shops 
don't know what the problem is or they just don't want to mess with it... I'm 
tending toward the latter, since the guys I sent it to are very knowledgeable. 
There is a picture of the motor on our website: www.carolinaphonosociety.com
A shortcut to the pic is: 
http://open1234.wix.com/camps-site/twilight-zone-2#!__fairy-phono-lampCurt


To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
From: clockworkh...@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 04:01:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question


Induction motors that lack torque can usually be traced to an open field coil 
or an open armature loop.  A shorted turn will eat torque but the motor will 
let you know by getting hot.  How about a photo of the motor?  Most good motor 
shops can fix anything from fractional horsepower to 100 HP.Do you know of 
a fan collector in your area?   I have repaired fan motors that lost power and 
have the same symptoms of your phonograph.  These things are not rocket science.

Best wishes,
Al


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Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

[Rich]

Some of these motors have round brushes constructed from tightly rolled 
up  brass screen. If this motor has that type of brush they are most 
likely dirty and oxidized. They are the first thing to check and they 
are cleaned by removing and soaking in carburetor cleaner. Do not sand 
them or the commutator surface.


As to how to get them fixed you have to find some old retired person who 
has the time to fiddle with it and possibly make new parts. This will be 
someone who collects early electrical equipment and keeps it running.


On 02/15/2013 03:15 PM, Jim Nichol wrote:

If this is a Universal motor, it can be easily identified by having carbon 
brushes riding on a commutator. A Universal motor is really a DC motor that has been 
specially designed to also work on AC.  Whereas an Induction motor is AC-only, and is an 
entirely different thing (no brushes).  Any motor repair shop that knows anything about 
DC motors should be able to analyze a Universal motor.  As a matter of fact, the first 
thing to check before getting it repaired is to see if the carbon brushes are worn down, 
and the springs that push them against the commutator are working. Often the brushes get 
stuck in their brush holder slots from carbon dust and grime, and are no longer making 
contact with the commutator. Freeing up the brushes so they slide easily will fix such a 
motor.

A DC motor (and a Universal motor) have two sets of windings called FIELD 
windings and ARMATURE windings. The Field coils are stationary, and are often 
bolted to the inside of the motor frame. The Armature coils are wound onto the 
rotor. The brushes and commutator bars are used to connect the power source to 
the Armature (rotor) windings.

It is possible for DC motors to be made in two configurations. The Field and Armature windings can 
be wired in parallel with each other, or they can be wired in series. Such DC motors are called 
either parallel or series wound.  Universal motors are usually series 
wound. Series motors (unlike parallel) have huge torque at slow or stalled speeds, and very low 
torque at high speeds. This is because if the mechanical load stalls the motor, it slows down, 
which increases the current in the Armature. Because the Armature and Field are in series, they 
then BOTH get more current, more magnetism in BOTH Armature and Field, and thus more torque 
squared. This is great for home use, like drill motors, vacuum cleaners, and for phonographs with 
heavy tonearms. The slower it goes, the more torque is created to compensate. There are two 
drawbacks for series motors. At high speeds they have very low torque, and secondly, they can 
theoretically reach infinite speed if there is no mechan

ic

  al load and fly apart. Some even have fans to provide a little load at high 
speeds.

Jim Nichol

On Feb 15, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Richrich-m...@octoxol.com  wrote:


He was advised that it was a short. You are correct that the correct condition 
condition description is OPEN Circuit. If the fields happen to be in parallel 
then that would be where I would start looking.

On 02/15/2013 01:04 PM, Jim Nichol wrote:

Al didn't say you had a short.  He said you had an open.  They are opposites of each 
other.  He only mentioned shorted turns to imply that they are NOT likely to be the problem.

A broken wire is an open, resulting in zero current.  A short is two wires touching each other, causing the current 
to take a shorter path than intended. In a lamp cord a short would blow a fuse, whereas an open would prevent current from 
flowing.  I recommend not saying short when you mean open (though many electrical novices do). If you said you 
thought the motor has a short at a repair shop, it would mark you as unknowledgeable, maybe setting yourself up to be ripped 
off.

The symptom of an open in your motor would be that nothing happens at all.  On the 
other hand, saying the motor has a short (or more specifically shorted turns) means 
that a few of the loops of wire in the coils are shorted together, causing the current to bypass 
them.  This would lower the overall resistance of the coils, thus increasing the current. The motor 
would still run, but would have less magnetic torque (because some of the turns of wire are not 
carrying current), and the remaining turns would get hot.

Sorry for the lecture, but as an electrical engineer, this is one of my pet 
peeves.

Jim

On Feb 15, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com   wrote:


Al,Thanks for the reply. As you noted, I have been advised that it was a short 
in the motor somewhere. The problem seems to be that this motor is wound for 
three different types of power - AC/DC and maybe 220. So, either the shops 
don't know what the problem is or they just don't want to mess with it... I'm 
tending toward the latter, since the guys I sent it to are very knowledgeable. 
There is a picture of the motor on our website: www.carolinaphonosociety.com
A shortcut to the pic is: 

Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

[Rich]

It does prove frustrating.

Your best bet is someone who will show up to the next phonograph show 
who can spell electric motor. These things are not hard to fix 
actually. The most likely problem is that the field is  grounded and as 
it is only a 2 wire device the case is also hot. It could also be the 
resistor has seen better days. The field coils are wrapped with linen 
strips and may or may not be then coated with tar. Either way when 
running on AC the coils flex at a 60 cycle rate and over time the 
wrapping fails and then the enamel on the wire wears through. This 
usually occurs at one or more of the 4 corners of the pole shoe.


You can verify a field ground by connecting the motor to power and then 
checking the frame to ground for voltage. Any reading of voltage 
indicates a field ground. I have attached a drawing of a universal 
motor, showing DC supply but the AC is identical, and you can see that 
at least 2 grounds are required to bypass any field windings. This is 
what you usually find when digging into these, multiple points of failure.


On 02/15/2013 10:07 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

Jim  Rich,Thanks for the info. My motor is definitely a Universal motor with carbon brushes. 
The brushes are in excellent shape and the armature runs true. The main problem I'm having is 
shorts, as opposed to opens. The motor runs until a load is applied, then you can  basically shut 
it down with your fingers. The REAL problem that I have had is due to our 
geographical location - North Carolina. There are some very good motor shops, but they won't mess 
with a small problem motor that doesn't generate any return business. If you find a mom  pop 
operation, they work whenever they get around to it... I left it with one place and the owner 
promised he would get to it in a week - two months later I went back to check and it was still 
sitting on his desk in the same place I left it. Another said he could rewind it, then quit his 
job. Another guy sent it to Michigan to someplace that was willing to work on it, but wanted $900 
with no guarantees that they could fix it. As far a

s

  electrical engineers go, 99.9% of the population probably don't know what electrical engineers do 
for a living and they are not in abundance around here, except at the nuclear power plant. The guy 
who works on your motor may or may not have graduated high school and knows how to fix one or two 
common motors that are used commercially - give him a challenge and it ends right there. I am tired 
of being asked by people in motor shops - What are you going to use it for? or 
What's wrong with it? If I knew what was wrong and how to fix it, I wouldn't be asking 
them. What difference does it make what I'm going to use it for?  I just want it to run... AND if I 
did explain that I wanted to use it in a lamp phonograph... you get the picture. Do I sound 
stressed?

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Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question

[Rich]

Again, do you have pictures of this item?

On 02/14/2013 10:23 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

I am at my wits end, trying to find someone who can rewind/fix a motor for my Fairy 
Phonograph Lamp. What I am considering as a temporary fix (not altering the original 
parts in any way) was to use a 78 rpm turntable motor from a jukebox. Does anyone 
know of a direct drive type motor that would handle the weight of a 12 steel 
turntable and the resulting drag from the acoustic reproducer and steel needle?
I have been researching the original Fairy motor for over 8 months and cannot 
find anything about it regarding amps, hp and rpms - there is no tag on any of 
the three that I have looked at. I am restoring a second Fairy lamp that has 
the same motor problem as my first one - motor spins, but slows to a stop with 
any load. I have been told that the motor is a strange one since it is wound 
for three different types of power. Parts for these phonos are non-existent, 
thus the idea of using a strong jukebox turntable motor which is already 
running at 78 rpms. The original motor has a resistor to cut the power and uses 
a pulley - governor - worm screw to meshed gear transmission to run the 
turntable and the speed is controlled by a simple brake mechanism. Any ideas or 
suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Curt
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Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Phonograph Companion Volume II

[Rich]

Do you happen to have both ISBN numbers of the book?

On 02/04/2013 02:26 PM, Arvin Casas wrote:

Hello All,

My recent attempt to purchase a copy of The Columbia Phonograph Companion
Volume II has ended in failure.  I went to the effort of buying through
Amazon UK through a now-known-to-me shady seller.  Thankfully I was able to
get my cool hundred or so back!

My adventures in the underworld over, I was wondering if any good folk out
there happen to have an extra copy of Mr Baumbach's out-of-print opus?  I've
tried scouring sources far and wide, from the office of the good author to
used book dealers to, as evidenced above, the darkened alleys of Amazon
marketplace UK, but apparently out-of-print means in my case, removed
from the face of the earth.  :O

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Not giving up yet! :)

Arvin




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Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Phonograph Companion Volume II

[Rich]

No hits here either with a different search tool. I suspect that it will 
be painfully expensive and when you see one, buy it. If you stop to 
think about it someone else will own it.


On 02/04/2013 03:44 PM, Steven Medved wrote:


It does not look good.   ASIN: B001GCOG60  I checked google, ebay, amazon.com 
and book butler, no luck.   http://www.mulhollandpress.com/Columbia.htm 
Columbia Phonograph Companion Volume II has been out of
print for several years and will not be reprinted.  
http://www.mulhollandpress.com/Books.htm Its just like the Edison cylinder 
book, keep an eye out of eBay and the other places. Steve
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:26:56 -0500

From: aca...@spamcop.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Columbia Phonograph Companion Volume II

Hello All,

My recent attempt to purchase a copy of The Columbia Phonograph Companion
Volume II has ended in failure.  I went to the effort of buying through
Amazon UK through a now-known-to-me shady seller.  Thankfully I was able to
get my cool hundred or so back!

My adventures in the underworld over, I was wondering if any good folk out
there happen to have an extra copy of Mr Baumbach's out-of-print opus?  I've
tried scouring sources far and wide, from the office of the good author to
used book dealers to, as evidenced above, the darkened alleys of Amazon
marketplace UK, but apparently out-of-print means in my case, removed
from the face of the earth.  :O

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Not giving up yet! :)

Arvin




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Re: [Phono-L] Edison Bearing

[Rich]

There are specific cutter angle recommendations for machining stintered 
bronze and I do not have them readily at hand. Having this info is a 
requirement for DIY bearings as you are actually attempting to cleanly 
cut each very small ball without smearing it.


On 01/29/2013 03:15 PM, Don Mayer wrote:

I tried making sintered bronze bearings when I started machining, maybe 35 years ago now. 
Possibly because of less-than-adequate machining technique, I found that sintered bronze 
produced greater friction on the mandrel shaft than did plain brass. I consequently 
continue to use brass and have the ritual of oiling to contend with, but do that happily 
in exchange for a mandrel which rotates with less effort, important when motors have lost 
some of their oomph due to worn gear shaft pinions, gear teeth and the like. 
I may have thought at the time that oiling the mandrel shaft was part of the cachet of 
acoustic phonograph technology. I would enjoy hearing if others with better technique 
have a better experience with sintered bronze than I did.

Regards,

Don Mayer


It is important to note the difference between bronze bushings and
sintered bronze bushings.  The former require regular lubrication as does
any other plain bearing.  But the sintering process produces a material that
is porous and will hold lubricant in its pores which significantly reduces
the need for regular oiling.  Here's a description of proper and improper
machining of sintered bronze:

http://www.lm-tarbell.com/machining_sintered_bronze.htm

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Re: [Phono-L] Edison Bearing

[Rich]

Sharp carbide tool bit and slow feed and you are good to go. The major 
problem is the type of oil used by many people to oil these machines.


On 01/28/2013 06:05 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

That explanation of machining sintered bronze is probably why Randy is better 
off doing what he started with, since he can do it at home without specialized 
equipment.


From: gbogan...@charter.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:44:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Bearing

 It is important to note the difference between bronze bushings and
sintered bronze bushings.  The former require regular lubrication as does
any other plain bearing.  But the sintering process produces a material that
is porous and will hold lubricant in its pores which significantly reduces
the need for regular oiling.  Here's a description of proper and improper
machining of sintered bronze:

http://www.lm-tarbell.com/machining_sintered_bronze.htm

Such bushings have been used for electric motors for decades and are very
dependable.  To us old-timers, they were known as oilite bearings.  Turns
out, that is now the tradename of a company who furnishes such bearings:

http://www.oilite.com/bearings.asp

Greg Bogantz




- Original Message -
From: Randy Larsonra...@cityprayz.com
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Bearing



Ronald
Thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it.  The only reason I
used stainless steel is that it would last longer. The oil in the bearing
would sustain it.Bronze is such a soft metal but did not know about it's
absorbency. That may possibly reduce any wear on the metal. I will try the
bronze. Thanks!
Also, any suggestions on what oil has worked best for you? I am going to
try some teflon based oil, but they are harder to come by where I live. I
do have an order for some and hope it will be here in a couple of weeks.
Thanks again
Randy

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Ron L'Heraultlhera...@bu.edu  wrote:


So why didn't you use something like sintered bronze for the bearing?
It
absorbs and holds oil.

Ronald L'Herault

Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division
B.U. School of Dental Medicine
801 Albany Street S203
Roxbury, MA 02119




-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
Behalf Of Randy Larson
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Bearing

I want to thank everyone who expressed interest in the Edison bearing.
I've
received enough request that will keep me busy for several weeks.  So I'm
sorry I can't make the offer free anymore.
One question is why make one in the first place?
A collector once said to me years ago; one of the problems with an Edison
motor is that there is steel on steel friction with only the oil you can
externally place on it.  That in itself initiated the wheels spinning. I
wondered if I could improve it.
This bearing provides a continuous feed of oil to the bearing and reduce
the
constant need to oil it externally.
Maybe it's crazy and won't make a difference. But I'm sending it out to
several individuals to test it and see if it is an improvement.
Or maybe it's because I'm too lazy to oil the motor as required!
In 1963, I received my fathers Brunswick he played as a child.  I was
thrilled with it and began my enthusiasm for collecting, He would take me
all over the city as I scoured for any old unit. In 1964, he paid $60 for
my
first Edison Standard (of which he only made $75 a week). I was stunned
that
he would make such a sacrifice for me.
What is interesting is that he worked for Alcoa Aluminum. He was an avid
inventor and came up with several improvements for the machines he
operated.
He was even recognized for several awards (unfortunately nothing
financially). He passed away in 2011 at the age of 91 He was my best
friend,
hero and my inspiration. And we both admired Edison!
Maybe a long explanation of why, but there it is.
Best Regards
Randy Larson
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Re: [Phono-L] Little Known Facts About Edison :)

[Rich]

Try and keep in mind that being or expressing an anti-Semitic point of 
view was all the rage at the time these men lived. It means nothing 
today other than provide an opportunity for those people today who are 
not big fans of the captains of industry and invention of the late 19th 
and early 20th century a convienient mechanism to tear these individuals 
down and discredit them.


George Washington owned slaves don't you know...



On 01/26/2013 01:35 PM, Stephan Puille wrote:



And just like his good friend Henry Ford he was very anti-Semitic.


Abe,

I have studied Edison for some thirty years. Could you please give me some 
concrete evidence that Edison was anti-Semitic?


[...]

Dennis?


There is no doubt that Edison was anti-Semite. Here is evidence from Stollwerck 
archive, Cologne. Since 1895, Ludwig Stollwerck had business relations with 
Edison, and knew him personally from 1902, when they discussed future 
cooperations in Llewellyn Park.

In a letter dated 28 July 1904, John H. Volkmann of Stollwerck  Co., New York, strongly 
advised Ludwig Stollwerck not to send a Jewish director for contract negotiations with 
Edison, because, as you [Stollwerck] already know, Edison is highly anti-Semitic. 
(Translation from German, Stollwerck archive, Cologne)

Stephan





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Re: [Phono-L] question re gold plating

[Rich]

Steve Farmer.

On 01/17/2013 06:12 AM, Steven Medved wrote:

Jeweler


From: maff...@bresnan.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Phono-L] question re gold plating

Phono Listers:



i have some parts  ( tone arm, speed control, bullet brake) which are gold
plated however, not in the best shape. I hesitate to ask, given the price
of gold these days but, who does this kind of work?



I got to thinking and wondered if it wasn't really 'gold but maybe a less
expensive option like some type of brass mix or something.



Any thread discussing gold type plating, and or person doing this work would
be appreciated. Also, if someone in the last, say, 12 months had something
gold plated, what did it cost?



Oh! Yes, it is the Victor VV-Xii *grin*



Later



Bob

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Re: [Phono-L] Cutting records

[Rich]

Shawn Borri has an electric cutter for cylinders.

On 12/07/2012 02:52 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote:

Shawn Borri can probably best answer your questions about cutting a
cylinder. He makes the wax blanks that you would need to cut. But
cutting a 78 is a whole different kettle of fish and pretty much a pipe
dream if your purpose is to be able to play it on an acoustic
phonograph. NO practical means exists for recording onto a disc that has
sufficient durability that it can be played with an acoustic reproducer.
In the 1930s there were disc recorders that cut into aluminum discs that
could then be played back with the relatively crude crystal pickups of
the day. But these recordings were noisy and really only suitable for
speech documentation or amateur use. Vinyl records are still too soft to
be played without significant wear on an acoustic reproducer. But in
order to make a vinyl or shellac 78, you have to go thru ALL the motions
of recording a master in a soft material such as wax or the modern
medium of nitrocellulose lacquer. But these recordings are WAY too
soft to be played by anything other than a very light tracking force
modern pickup. To make a shellac record, these delicate masters have to
be electroformed into at least a metal stamper (the typical process
includes going thru a metal master and metal mother before making the
stamper) which must then be put into a huge hydraulic press that
compression molds the shellac material into the final record. You can
pay to have vinyl records made this way, but nobody that I know of still
molds shellac records.

Greg Bogantz



- Original Message - From: kt_06...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 3:24 PM
Subject: [Phono-L] Cutting records




Any info on best way to cut a cylinder (or to cut a 78 disc) from a
digital file (eg, .wma)?
Any service or individual that does this sort of backwards transfer?

I have one or two digital files of some music pieces (2 minutes each)
that I'd like to have cut for playback onto cylinder and/or onto (78) disc.
Or am I nuts?

Thanks
Kevin
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Re: [Phono-L] Royal Purple cylinder question

[Rich]

The white coloring was white lead and boiled linseed oil. It turns brown 
with advanced age and eventually falls out.


There are several robins egg blue shade amberols and several purple 
ones, like I said before, Edison cylinder color quality control was not 
teh best.



On 12/03/2012 11:00 PM, Bob Maffit wrote:

Phono List:



A short while ago a thread involving royal Purple cylinders  had some
life. some anomalies were discussed / present, like blue cylinders in the
middle of the Royal Purple span of numbers or a maroon colored cylinder
etc.



While scanning a lot of cylinders offered for sale in a run of the mill
antique shop, my wife grabbed a Purple  cylinder from the group thinking it
was  a Royal Purple cylinder. Upon closer examination, it is not a 29XX
numbered cylinder. This one is certainly  the Royal Purple color however,
the print is not in gold.



The cylinder is:



3790 everyone wants a key to my cellar by Al Bernard



The lettering isn't white or gold, it is the same color  of the celluloid )
purple). Maybe the color has rubbed or washed out but, it looks like  it
wasn't ever colored.



Any thoughts or comments?



later



Bob

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Re: [Phono-L] Save high quality eBay scans

[Rich]

Well, here is the problem with this, this large size picture is 1114 X 
901 pixels in size and contains 142kB of information. You would expect 
about 1mB if it had not had the pixel density reduced. If you check you 
will find this is the case for all of the ebay direct hosted pictures, 
there is very little there there. There is no way you can make any 
positive statements regarding condition from the information provided.


On 11/29/2012 08:19 AM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

That can't be an original finish.  You can see that it is shiny as heck but
you can also see stained wood underneath the finish.  Sheesh.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:24 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Save high quality eBay scans

Ever wish you could save high quality eBay scans from various listings? For
example look at this current listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1902-Edison-Standard-Cylinder-Phonograph-w-Original-
Blue-Flower-Horn-Gorgeous-/190758684576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2c6a1
a87a0 Would you like to be able to save the image that you see when you use
the zoom tool to view the closeups?  Email me
at:vinyl(dot)visions(at)live(dot)com and I will email back a PDF explaining
how you can do it. Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Save high quality eBay scans

[Rich]

For some reason I find that a right click and save image as does 
collect the original with no secret handshakes or reading of chicken 
entrails.


On 11/28/2012 09:24 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

Ever wish you could save high quality eBay scans from various listings? For example 
look at this current listing:   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1902-Edison-Standard-Cylinder-Phonograph-w-Original-Blue-Flower-Horn-Gorgeous-/190758684576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2c6a1a87a0
 Would you like to be able to save the image that you see when you use the zoom 
tool to view the closeups?  Email me at:vinyl(dot)visions(at)live(dot)com and I 
will email back a PDF explaining how you can do it. Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Save high quality eBay scans

[Rich]

The size of the file is a function of what has been originally uploaded. 
ebay specifies a minimum long side of 500 pixels and the recommended max 
is 1600. I have yet to run into one that was locked that was on the ebay 
site. I suspect some of the off site hosts do allow picture locking. 
Anything that is displayed on your screen can be captured. It also looks 
like ebay plays with the byte density as the 1600X1200 size comes up as 
~700kB yet that is usually a 2 meg camera size image.




On 11/28/2012 11:11 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

Rich,Certain files are right-click disabled, so this works no matter what. 
Also, you need to look at the image to determine whether you are getting the 
largest size file, as eBay has numerous size files posted - thumbnail, low, 
medium and high quality .jpg images. This method is to obtain the ultimate 
quality image - if you don't need that, then whatever you get with a right 
click is OK... with no secret handshakes or chicken entrail readings.
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:00:50 -0600

From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Save high quality eBay scans

For some reason I find that a right click and save image as does
collect the original with no secret handshakes or reading of chicken
entrails.

On 11/28/2012 09:24 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:

Ever wish you could save high quality eBay scans from various listings? For example 
look at this current listing:   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1902-Edison-Standard-Cylinder-Phonograph-w-Original-Blue-Flower-Horn-Gorgeous-/190758684576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2c6a1a87a0
 Would you like to be able to save the image that you see when you use the zoom 
tool to view the closeups?  Email me at:vinyl(dot)visions(at)live(dot)com and I 
will email back a PDF explaining how you can do it. Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Maroon Amberol?

[Rich]

Some of the 29,000 series are more maroon than purple. There was less 
than stingent QA on color.


On 11/27/2012 06:23 PM, Steven Medved wrote:


29001 to 29077 Royal Purple. Some blue amberols are a purple color, I have seen 
several.
From: vinyl.visi...@live.com

To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:01:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Maroon Amberol?

I don't know. It was with some cylinders that came with an Opera from New York. 
How would I recognize one, since I have never seen one either? What numbers or 
what type of titles would be on a Royal Purple - classical?
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:12:30 -0800

From: dda...@sbcglobal.net
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Maroon Amberol?

A Royal Purple?


--- On Tue, 11/27/12, Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com  wrote:


From: Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com
Subject: [Phono-L] Maroon Amberol?
To: phono-l@oldcrank.orgphono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 5:03 PM


Is there any significance to a maroon colored Amberol cylinder? A friend said 
he found one, and since he is a knowledgeable collector, I believe him when he 
says its unusual and unlike others he has seen over 40 yrs. - I haven't seen it 
yet. Any ideas?

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Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring

[Rich]

You need some type of slip connector/connection as the lower end of the 
horn will travel through an arc.


On 11/11/2012 09:31 PM, Steven Medved wrote:





Hello, On the early cygnet horns without the springs in the suspension for the 
small carriage you need the metal tizit.  Is this the same for the horizontal 
carriage? Thanks, Steve
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Re: [Phono-L] Early cygnet horn without the spring

[Rich]

If memory serves there is a tizit that has the ball joint but straight 
ends. I have Triumph B with a horizontal carriage on it and a Cygnet 
horn and there is indeed a slip connector but As I have not used it for 
10+ years I am at a loss how I had it setup. It was touchy with the 
spring suspension and I suspect it will be even a larger pain with the 
solid hanger.


On 11/11/2012 10:16 PM, Steven Medved wrote:


I assume the large horizontal carriage would need a straight metal tizit when 
used with the cygnet horn without the spring. Steve


Hello, On the early cygnet horns without the springs in the suspension for the 
small carriage you need the metal tizit.  Is this the same for the horizontal 
carriage? Thanks, Steve
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Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

[Rich]

You would also need the dropping resistor for that motor as it is a 
multi voltage AC/DC motor.


On 10/29/2012 08:43 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Hi Rich,
I wasn't familiar with an Ekonowatt motor, but after looking it up, it seems 
like it might be a possibility. I couldn't find the dimensions, but I'm sure a 
mount could be made. That being said. does anyone have a working Edison 
Ekonowatt motor that they might part with?
Curt


Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:20:55 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Does that motor look like an Edison Ekonowatt motor?

On 10/28/2012 11:01 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Rich,
I sent it to a shop in Michigan to have it checked out. There was give in the 
shaft causing worn bearings and as it turned it had a binding spot, which turned out to 
be a slight bend.  It also arced and lost power when it was running and fluctuated from 
pulling a record to coming to a complete stop. The bend may have been caused by 
overheating from the arcing. Apparently there was a short in the AC windings. It is 
unusual, since it was made to run on AC, DC and 220 current. I have thought about using a 
small modern industrial motor that would fit in the original motor housing, but haven't 
completely explored that idea. A modern turntable motor wouldn't be strong enought to 
turn the worm drive gearing with governors and the turntable which is quite heavy, not to 
mention the needle drag... I am not sure what an equivalent antique motor might be and 
thought about using an Edison electric motor from an Ediphone or other antique electric 
phono motor, if I can't get this one



  go

in

   g.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:30:09 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Do you know what type of motor it is and what has convinced you that it
needs rewound? The reason I ask is those are not at all like straight
forward motors that inhabit reasonably modern turntables.

On 10/28/2012 08:23 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Hi Rich,
Thanks for that info... I spent a lot of time restoring the phono, so figuring 
out how to rewind the motor would be interesting.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:20:02 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

There are no  --coils in a box-- for those antique motors. Requires hand
rewinding by a skilled craftsman. Would be cheaper if you went to the
library and got an old book on motor rewinding and did it yourself.
Figure about 8 hours of labor to do the job from an experienced person
from start to finish.

On 10/28/2012 04:54 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Thanks Ron... I'll check them out, as they are not too far away. The problem I am having 
is finding someone willing to rebuild a small motor - reasonably. I found one 
in Michigan that wants $900 to rewind the motor and straighten the shaft - seems kind of 
excessive.


From: lhera...@bu.edu
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Look around for a motor rebuilding company.
http://www.claytonelectricmotorrepair.com/  Takes you to one that may fit
the bill.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:09 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor



I just restored my Fairy Phono Lamp, but found that the motor needs
rewinding and the shaft is bent... Anyone have a motor for this?
Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Model L reproducer

[Rich]

If no one else gets for you shoot me an email and I will pull one out 
and measure it for you.


On 10/29/2012 08:08 PM, Steven Medved wrote:





Does anyone have a model L reproducer that they could give me a measurement of 
the space from the weight to the peak of the limit loop?  I have an L weight 
someone turned into an N weight that I want to turn back into an L.   Thanks, 
Steve 
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Re: [Phono-L] Burns Pollock Phono Lamp Motor

[Rich]

You need to look for a hobbyist machinist who will cut one for you as 
the cost to setup and machine a single gear will take your breath away. 
A small independent job shop would do it but you will need drawings and 
specifications, but still expensive.


On 10/28/2012 12:08 PM, John Maeder wrote:


Any machine shop can cut a gear in any material.  Modern fiber gears are 
usually cut from nylon or delrin plastics.


From: c5...@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 12:10:29 -0400
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Burns Pollock Phono Lamp Motor

I am looking for the electric motor for a Burns and Pollock Phono  Lamp or
parts for the motor including the fiber gear. This is the motor  with the
tin cover on the bottom. Any information on whom can cut fiber  gears would be
great appreciated. Also looking for the speed control knob for  the same
phonograph. Please contact me off list.  Thanks
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Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

[Rich]

There are no  --coils in a box-- for those antique motors. Requires hand 
rewinding by a skilled craftsman. Would be cheaper if you went to the 
library and got an old book on motor rewinding and did it yourself. 
Figure about 8 hours of labor to do the job from an experienced person 
from start to finish.


On 10/28/2012 04:54 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Thanks Ron... I'll check them out, as they are not too far away. The problem I am having 
is finding someone willing to rebuild a small motor - reasonably. I found one 
in Michigan that wants $900 to rewind the motor and straighten the shaft - seems kind of 
excessive.


From: lhera...@bu.edu
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Look around for a motor rebuilding company.
http://www.claytonelectricmotorrepair.com/  Takes you to one that may fit
the bill.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:09 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor



I just restored my Fairy Phono Lamp, but found that the motor needs
rewinding and the shaft is bent... Anyone have a motor for this?
Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

[Rich]

Do you know what type of motor it is and what has convinced you that it 
needs rewound? The reason I ask is those are not at all like straight 
forward motors that inhabit reasonably modern turntables.


On 10/28/2012 08:23 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Hi Rich,
Thanks for that info... I spent a lot of time restoring the phono, so figuring 
out how to rewind the motor would be interesting.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:20:02 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

There are no  --coils in a box-- for those antique motors. Requires hand
rewinding by a skilled craftsman. Would be cheaper if you went to the
library and got an old book on motor rewinding and did it yourself.
Figure about 8 hours of labor to do the job from an experienced person
from start to finish.

On 10/28/2012 04:54 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Thanks Ron... I'll check them out, as they are not too far away. The problem I am having 
is finding someone willing to rebuild a small motor - reasonably. I found one 
in Michigan that wants $900 to rewind the motor and straighten the shaft - seems kind of 
excessive.


From: lhera...@bu.edu
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Look around for a motor rebuilding company.
http://www.claytonelectricmotorrepair.com/  Takes you to one that may fit
the bill.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:09 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor



I just restored my Fairy Phono Lamp, but found that the motor needs
rewinding and the shaft is bent... Anyone have a motor for this?
Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

[Rich]

That is probably a universal motor and they throw much fire when 
operating. I doubt that it is fatally grounded and someone who has dealt 
with them can probably fix it or George may have a replacement as it is 
probably a common off the shelf period part. As long as the armature is 
not open or grounded they are fixable. Bearings and shaft straightening 
is the easy part.


On 10/28/2012 11:01 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Rich,
I sent it to a shop in Michigan to have it checked out. There was give in the 
shaft causing worn bearings and as it turned it had a binding spot, which turned out to 
be a slight bend.  It also arced and lost power when it was running and fluctuated from 
pulling a record to coming to a complete stop. The bend may have been caused by 
overheating from the arcing. Apparently there was a short in the AC windings. It is 
unusual, since it was made to run on AC, DC and 220 current. I have thought about using a 
small modern industrial motor that would fit in the original motor housing, but haven't 
completely explored that idea. A modern turntable motor wouldn't be strong enought to 
turn the worm drive gearing with governors and the turntable which is quite heavy, not to 
mention the needle drag... I am not sure what an equivalent antique motor might be and 
thought about using an Edison electric motor from an Ediphone or other antique electric 
phono motor, if I can't get this one go

in

  g.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:30:09 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Do you know what type of motor it is and what has convinced you that it
needs rewound? The reason I ask is those are not at all like straight
forward motors that inhabit reasonably modern turntables.

On 10/28/2012 08:23 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Hi Rich,
Thanks for that info... I spent a lot of time restoring the phono, so figuring 
out how to rewind the motor would be interesting.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:20:02 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

There are no  --coils in a box-- for those antique motors. Requires hand
rewinding by a skilled craftsman. Would be cheaper if you went to the
library and got an old book on motor rewinding and did it yourself.
Figure about 8 hours of labor to do the job from an experienced person
from start to finish.

On 10/28/2012 04:54 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Thanks Ron... I'll check them out, as they are not too far away. The problem I am having 
is finding someone willing to rebuild a small motor - reasonably. I found one 
in Michigan that wants $900 to rewind the motor and straighten the shaft - seems kind of 
excessive.


From: lhera...@bu.edu
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Look around for a motor rebuilding company.
http://www.claytonelectricmotorrepair.com/  Takes you to one that may fit
the bill.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:09 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor



I just restored my Fairy Phono Lamp, but found that the motor needs
rewinding and the shaft is bent... Anyone have a motor for this?
Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

[Rich]

Does that motor look like an Edison Ekonowatt motor?

On 10/28/2012 11:01 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Rich,
I sent it to a shop in Michigan to have it checked out. There was give in the 
shaft causing worn bearings and as it turned it had a binding spot, which turned out to 
be a slight bend.  It also arced and lost power when it was running and fluctuated from 
pulling a record to coming to a complete stop. The bend may have been caused by 
overheating from the arcing. Apparently there was a short in the AC windings. It is 
unusual, since it was made to run on AC, DC and 220 current. I have thought about using a 
small modern industrial motor that would fit in the original motor housing, but haven't 
completely explored that idea. A modern turntable motor wouldn't be strong enought to 
turn the worm drive gearing with governors and the turntable which is quite heavy, not to 
mention the needle drag... I am not sure what an equivalent antique motor might be and 
thought about using an Edison electric motor from an Ediphone or other antique electric 
phono motor, if I can't get this one go

in

  g.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:30:09 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Do you know what type of motor it is and what has convinced you that it
needs rewound? The reason I ask is those are not at all like straight
forward motors that inhabit reasonably modern turntables.

On 10/28/2012 08:23 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Hi Rich,
Thanks for that info... I spent a lot of time restoring the phono, so figuring 
out how to rewind the motor would be interesting.


Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:20:02 -0500
From: rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

There are no  --coils in a box-- for those antique motors. Requires hand
rewinding by a skilled craftsman. Would be cheaper if you went to the
library and got an old book on motor rewinding and did it yourself.
Figure about 8 hours of labor to do the job from an experienced person
from start to finish.

On 10/28/2012 04:54 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Thanks Ron... I'll check them out, as they are not too far away. The problem I am having 
is finding someone willing to rebuild a small motor - reasonably. I found one 
in Michigan that wants $900 to rewind the motor and straighten the shaft - seems kind of 
excessive.


From: lhera...@bu.edu
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor

Look around for a motor rebuilding company.
http://www.claytonelectricmotorrepair.com/  Takes you to one that may fit
the bill.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:09 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: [Phono-L] Fairy Phono Lamp Motor



I just restored my Fairy Phono Lamp, but found that the motor needs
rewinding and the shaft is bent... Anyone have a motor for this?
Curt

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Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???

[Rich]

Not so much just rare but the very rare and in excellent original 
condition, must meet both conditions.


On 09/16/2012 07:33 PM, Steven Medved wrote:


It seems to me that rare items have done well, but common ones have fallen. 
Steve
From: vinyl.visi...@live.com

To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:02:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???


Hi Dennis,
I didn't mean to infer that these prices were totally ridiculous, since both 
are very rare... just that certain items seem to be recession proof, more than 
others. I've only seen one Siam Soo in person and this one looks to be an 
exceptional example...


Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:40:59 -0700
From: back...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???

I don't think it is THAT ridiculous.

Siam Soos are rare and very desirable.

To find one with the original box is very, very unusual!

Dennis



--- On Sun, 9/16/12, john roblesjohn9...@pacbell.net  wrote:

From: john roblesjohn9...@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sunday, September 16, 2012, 4:09 PM

Gotta be shillers!! That's ridiculous.




From: Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.orgphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sun, September 16, 2012 11:41:34 AM
Subject: [Phono-L] What recession...???



Apparently someone did not get the memo on the recession causing phono related
stuff to drop in value:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221121665978?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


http://www.ebay.com/itm/170901196872?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


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Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???

[Rich]

This was also the case in the last Great Depression.

On 09/16/2012 07:33 PM, Steven Medved wrote:


It seems to me that rare items have done well, but common ones have fallen. 
Steve
From: vinyl.visi...@live.com

To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:02:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???


Hi Dennis,
I didn't mean to infer that these prices were totally ridiculous, since both 
are very rare... just that certain items seem to be recession proof, more than 
others. I've only seen one Siam Soo in person and this one looks to be an 
exceptional example...


Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:40:59 -0700
From: back...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???

I don't think it is THAT ridiculous.

Siam Soos are rare and very desirable.

To find one with the original box is very, very unusual!

Dennis



--- On Sun, 9/16/12, john roblesjohn9...@pacbell.net  wrote:

From: john roblesjohn9...@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What recession...???
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Date: Sunday, September 16, 2012, 4:09 PM

Gotta be shillers!! That's ridiculous.




From: Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.orgphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sun, September 16, 2012 11:41:34 AM
Subject: [Phono-L] What recession...???



Apparently someone did not get the memo on the recession causing phono related
stuff to drop in value:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221121665978?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


http://www.ebay.com/itm/170901196872?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


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Re: [Phono-L] Edison 11 panel cygnet horn

[Rich]

Go to eBay, select advanced search, use cygnet as your single search 
term, select completed listings, click search. When the results come up 
on the left side select the Radio, Phonograph, TV, Phone category.


Or, reassemble if required, this link and paste into your browser.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Radio-Phonograph-TV-Phone-/29832/i.html?_sadis=200_ipg=200LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0_samihi=_samilow=_fpos=_udhi=_oexkw=_udlo=_adv=1_sop=10LH_Complete=1_dmd=1_okw=_fsct=_nkw=cygnet




On 09/15/2012 07:55 AM, Paul Christenzen wrote:

Care to share with us what it went for?

clockworkh...@aol.com wrote:

They are more scarce since they were made in smaller numbers than the
#10 Cygnet. This should translate to higher prices with one caveat.
The #11 was really for the Triumph D2. You could put it on an E, F, or
G Triumph if you didn't have the original Music Master Wood Cygnet
Horn. When converting an earlier A, B, or C Triumph to 2 and 4 minute
operation, the #11 was offered as a less expensive horn than the Music
Master. From what I have seen, people who upgraded their Triumph went
more for the Music Master than the #11.

I was recently outbid on a #11 Cygnet that was just on eBay but only
by 1 higher bid. It went for less than I had figured so I ended up
with bidders remorse. I should have bid more aggressively...

Best wishes to all,

Al







-Original Message-
From: Barry Kasindorfba...@barrykasindorf.com
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:58 pm
Subject: [Phono-L] Edison 11 panel cygnet horn


Hi,
I have this black and gold horn and it is extra. I got it because I
thought it went with a Triumph but I don't have a machine for it
anymore. Is it worth more than a regular 10 panel?


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Re: [Phono-L] Edison 11 panel cygnet horn

[Rich]

That used to be the price range for very good to excellent examples but 
in case you have missed it the economy is in the tank and many things 
are going for 1/2 or less of their previous high price.


On 09/15/2012 04:34 PM, Home wrote:

My experience is that original black 11 panel cygnet horns no dents original 
paint  ( when available) go for around 800.00 to 1000.00 usd.  I have never 
seen a wood grained one ever for sale.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2012, at 2:51 PM, DanKjediso...@verizon.net  wrote:


I see a couple of 11-panel cygnets sold recently on ebay;  $268.88 (damaged - 
360485503978 )  and $360  ( 251127968607 )





- Original Message - From: Paul Christenzenpic...@gmail.com
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison 11 panel cygnet horn



Care to share with us what it went for?

clockworkh...@aol.com wrote:

They are more scarce since they were made in smaller numbers than the #10 
Cygnet.  This should translate to higher prices with one caveat.  The #11 was 
really for the Triumph D2.  You could put it on an E, F, or G Triumph if you 
didn't have the original Music Master Wood Cygnet Horn.  When converting an 
earlier A, B, or C Triumph to 2 and 4 minute operation, the #11 was offered as 
a less expensive horn than the Music Master.  From what I have seen, people who 
upgraded their Triumph went more for the Music Master than the #11.

I was recently outbid on a #11 Cygnet that was just on eBay but only by 1 
higher bid.  It went for less than I had figured so I ended up with bidders 
remorse.  I should have bid more aggressively...

Best wishes to all,

Al





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Re: [Phono-L] Woven cotton outer cover for rubber horn connectors

[Rich]

Those are old style wrapped soft natural rubber hoses.

On 09/05/2012 12:04 PM, Steven Medved wrote:


Does anyone know where to get them?

Steve   
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Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man?

[Rich]

The diameter may indeed be critical depending on the design of the 
turntable drive. This is why replacing them  may or may not be a big 
deal. Changing the diameter may end up changing the platter RPM.


On 09/03/2012 12:02 PM, Andrew Baron wrote:

I would add to Ron's comment about substitute rubber for the idler wheel, that 
an O-ring will indeed provide sufficient traction and makes an attractive 
alternative to get your platter running smoothly and quietly (provided that the 
turntable bearings / bushings are well cleaned and properly lubricated).

As Ron noted, size (I think in this case diameter) is not critical, as long as it fits 
the steel idler disc snugly so it can't slip.  However the thickness of the O-ring or 
other alternative tire should be as close to the same as it is on the 
original tire, or your turntable speed will be too fast or too slow.

Andrew

On Sep 2, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote:


And if it has an idler wheel between the motor's rotating shaft and the
turntable edge, its actual size is not critical.  You can substitute a
rubber O ring.  However, a little internet searching will turn up places
that will replace the idler's rubber with new to the same size as original.


Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Andrew Baron
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 8:08 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man?

You're welcome Edward.

The rubber idler wheel can sometimes be reconditioned -softened and
surface-dressed with a chemical.  If it has a notable flat spot (from
decades resting against the inside of the turntable rim under tension), it
will need to be replaced.  When these get hard it transfers all kinds of
noise to the platter which then acts like a diaphragm to magnify the noise.
The motor board, if the motor is bolted directly to it, then acts like a
sound board, further amplifying the rattle.

The original stylus might have been a metal alloy.  One such was called
Osmium, which would give more plays than an ordinary steel needle.  It
could also have been a jewel-tipped metal shank.

Electric Admirals from that era with no radio are pretty rare.

The repairs are pretty straightforward.  Best of luck, Andrew

On Sep 2, 2012, at 5:42 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote:


Andrew,

Thank You for taking the time to respond as you did, with all that
helpful information!  I guessed aright that if the symptoms were
described, someone who knows them would indicate a prognosis.  I think
that since these machines are fairly rare, and yet when working
properly play records with a lovely, iconic sound, they should be
restored.  They're easier on the old records than a Victrola, also, if
you like to play them a lot, as I do.  I  have a great GE phonograph,
with an AM radio, that I would estimate to have been available in the
40s, extrapolating from your description of this  Admir al.

The original stylus must be gone.  I got it with a standard steel
needle in it.  And yes, the garbled music was from the record.  There
is no radio with this unit, it only plays records.

I'll wait and see if anyone in the area responds, but appreciate your
making yourself available.  I used to know someone in the antique
radio  club that came down to the Salem, Sounds of Nostalgia show, but

it's been  awhile.

I've lost touch.   It would be nice to know  who's doing this now.

All the Best,

: )

Edward



In a message dated 9/2/2012 3:01:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
a...@popyrus.com writes:

Hi  Edward ~

Your Admiral is more likely late pre-war; ca. 1939 to 42, or  early
post-war; ca. 1946-1947.

The symptoms you describe are typical of  this technology when it
ages, and
are:
Hardened rubber on the idler wheel  (turntable noise);

Dead electrolytic capacitors, two to three of these  will be found in
need of replacement (loud hum and garbled sound).  This  is a job for
a soldering iron, and the correct types and polarity will be  needed.
These are available.

If when you say the music sounds  garbled you mean music from a
record and not from a built-in radio, then it's  a small miracle that
your crystal cartridge might actually be good.  99%  of these are
found dead or substantially diminished in unrestored phonographs  of this

era.


The fact that there's a set screw for the stylus indicates  that yours
still has the crystal cartridge.  These can be rebuilt with a  new
element if needed (some of the distortion can be from the cartridge),
or  replaced with a more reliable type of cartridge and stylus.

The unit  may need some other minor work.  Usually motor bearings,
idler wheel  arbor  bushings and platter bearings need de-gumming and
new lubrication,  and if it has a changer, these usually need some
attention as well.  On the electronic side, the power cord may be
brittle if it's original and certain of the paper capacitors will
likely benefit from 

Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man?

[Rich]

You need to re-cap the amp. Look through the old classifieds here 
http://www.antiqueradio.com/ for someone in your area doing radio 
restoration.


On 09/02/2012 03:26 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote:

Greetings Phellow Fonoteers,

Can anyone recommend a repair man for an electric-powered, 78-player,
hopefully in the Portland, Oregon area?  I have an Admiral  tabletop that's
likely from the 1930s.  It has some interesting Art Deco  features, and has a
thumb screw at the head of the tone arm for changing  needles.  The turntable
makes enough noise to stampede the  cattle, and when the tubes warm up it
hums very loudly, and I fear it will  frighten the peasants who have no way of
appreciating what manner of sinister  experiments are going on here.  Also,
the music sounds garbled.  I  suspect it has an electrical short going on
but this isn't something I know  a lot about, but I don't want to awaken my
creation prematurely, or burn our  castle down.

Anyway, if you know somebody, possibly an antique radio man, I'll call  him
or her forthwith.

Many Thanks,

: )

Edward
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Re: [Phono-L] Fairy Phonograph Motor Issue...

[Rich]

The cause and cure depends on the actual type of motor it is. The term 
motor is very generic and covers multiple types. There are not many of 
those phono lamps running around for cheap so few people have been 
inside of one and even fewer have actually worked on that motor.


On 08/13/2012 06:49 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


Is there anyone on the list who has had experience with a Fairy Phonograph 
motor or other phono motors from that period? I completed my restoration - 
everything works - lights, motor, etc. However, when the motor is under load, 
with the turntable in place, it seems to vary in power from fast to almost a 
complete stop. It bogs down when a record is attempted to be played...
I know that no one will have an exact answer, but I am looking for the most 
plausible cause. Does the motor need to be rewound and rebuilt or is it more 
likely that the brushes are dirty or worn out. Any ideas???
Curt
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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

[Rich]

McMaster-Carr sells it and it is real wool, not polyester.

On 08/03/2012 02:19 AM, DanKj wrote:

Success!!

I was already using grease (nasty black stuff, for cars with disc
brakes) so was disappointed by the use grease! replies - HOWEVER, as
100% of the replies were use grease, that had to be the answer. My
grease was not sticky enough. I dug out a little tube of Bulb Grease,
unopened for maybe 15 years, and put some in the bearing race of the
arm, AFTER having all the parts in the fridge for an hour. Also turned
the a/c up full-blast, and tried not to heat the parts with my hands.
That stuff was like almost-dry rubber cement - the balls did not move
from their groove, and the goo was strong enough to hold the steel plate
in place while I slipped the assembly into its mounting hole  slid the
cover on.

Many thanks to youse all! I promise not to fiddle with the brass
reproducer - not broken, no fixin'. Now, I will clean out the sticky
bulb grease  look into that F-1 hard felt .




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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

[Rich]

Grease to hold them in place and good electrical contact cleaner to 
clean it out after assembled.


On 08/02/2012 02:26 AM, DanKj wrote:

I took apart the base of an Orthophonic arm (the kind without bracket
and pivot pin) and am having a frustrating time getting it together
again! I just don't see how to get the 5 ball-bearings to stay put while
the 3 screws are replaced. Tried holding it upside-down in one hand, but
it was impossible to keep every part in place. Also tried assembling
right in the Victrola, which almost works - until I try to put the black
cover on.

I might have done this with a Granada, long ago, but maybe I looked at
how it was put together  changed my mind!

Any suggestions will be received with gratitude. :)

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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

[Rich]

That will not  remove all of it unless you make a project of it, and you 
only want a very light coat of a pure synthetic oil on them anyway. 
Grease is not what belongs in there.


On 08/02/2012 08:48 AM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

Why would you want to clean the grease off?  The bearings need to be lubed
and I'm pretty sure there was grease in there originally.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:08 AM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

Grease to hold them in place and good electrical contact cleaner to clean it
out after assembled.

On 08/02/2012 02:26 AM, DanKj wrote:

I took apart the base of an Orthophonic arm (the kind without bracket
and pivot pin) and am having a frustrating time getting it together
again! I just don't see how to get the 5 ball-bearings to stay put
while the 3 screws are replaced. Tried holding it upside-down in one
hand, but it was impossible to keep every part in place. Also tried
assembling right in the Victrola, which almost works - until I try to
put the black cover on.

I might have done this with a Granada, long ago, but maybe I looked at
how it was put together  changed my mind!

Any suggestions will be received with gratitude. :)

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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

[Rich]

There were greased at the factory because that was the state of the art 
at the time. Light synthetic oil will function much better. Youcan 
either stick with antique technology or update.


On 08/02/2012 09:41 AM, Andrew Baron wrote:

Hi Dan ~

If the grease is very light, like a dab of white lithium grease out of a tube 
(not the spray), there's no need to clean it out after assembly (likewise avoid 
cleaning sprays which can cause collateral damage to finishes if not precisely 
controlled and masked).

The main thing is that the new grease should be light and not stiff (avoid 
wheel bearing grease, etc.), so you're not impeding the free lateral movement 
of the tone arm as this will cause premature wear to the records and could 
affect sound quality.

Naturally you'll have removed every trace of the old grease from the balls, 
retainer and races prior to applying the new, which should be done relatively 
sparingly.

As Ron noted, they greased these at the factory, so there's no reason to clean 
out your fresh application of uncontaminated grease.

Andrew Baron
Santa Fe

On Aug 2, 2012, at 6:08 AM, Rich wrote:


Grease to hold them in place and good electrical contact cleaner to clean it 
out after assembled.

On 08/02/2012 02:26 AM, DanKj wrote:

I took apart the base of an Orthophonic arm (the kind without bracket
and pivot pin) and am having a frustrating time getting it together
again! I just don't see how to get the 5 ball-bearings to stay put while
the 3 screws are replaced. Tried holding it upside-down in one hand, but
it was impossible to keep every part in place. Also tried assembling
right in the Victrola, which almost works - until I try to put the black
cover on.

I might have done this with a Granada, long ago, but maybe I looked at
how it was put together  changed my mind!

Any suggestions will be received with gratitude. :)

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Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

[Rich]

If you cut the gaskets from F-1 hard felt it appears as a solid to any 
sound waves that are on those records. It is also self lubricating.


On 08/02/2012 01:41 PM, William Zucca wrote:

I always put lots of grease to keep the bearings in while putting the arm
back together AND I also put lots of grease on both surfaces of the felt
donut below the arm where it contacts the iron casting elbow to order to
make a good seal.

GrnMountainBill

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Ron L'Heraultlhera...@bu.edu  wrote:


I wonder if you could even tell the difference if the grease were there or
not, given the fact that you are supposed to grease joints to make them
air-tight.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]
On
Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 12:16 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

That will not  remove all of it unless you make a project of it, and you
only want a very light coat of a pure synthetic oil on them anyway.
Grease is not what belongs in there.

On 08/02/2012 08:48 AM, Ron L'Herault wrote:

Why would you want to clean the grease off?  The bearings need to be
lubed and I'm pretty sure there was grease in there originally.

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org
[mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 8:08 AM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed

Grease to hold them in place and good electrical contact cleaner to
clean it out after assembled.

On 08/02/2012 02:26 AM, DanKj wrote:

I took apart the base of an Orthophonic arm (the kind without bracket
and pivot pin) and am having a frustrating time getting it together
again! I just don't see how to get the 5 ball-bearings to stay put
while the 3 screws are replaced. Tried holding it upside-down in one
hand, but it was impossible to keep every part in place. Also tried
assembling right in the Victrola, which almost works - until I try to
put the black cover on.

I might have done this with a Granada, long ago, but maybe I looked
at how it was put together   changed my mind!

Any suggestions will be received with gratitude. :)

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Re: [Phono-L] Apology to all

[Rich]

It is not going to ruffle my feathers and as far as I am concerned I am 
now interested in reading your tail of contracting phono fever.


On 07/30/2012 03:04 PM, Ken aka: OnATorrent wrote:

Everyone,

It had been suggested to me by a couple of people to right up my story about 
how I fisrt got the Phono Fever at the age of 26 years old.  Unfortunately it 
will contain parts of my life away form the topic of Phonos as I overcame major 
life issues.  I guess now it would be inappropriate to post my story here.  If 
any of you that encouraged me to do this, and if you still would like to read 
my story, please contact me off board. As I donot want to cause problems or get 
people here upset with me.  I to am sorry for posting my off topic personal 
major life event.

I really did not mean to ruffle anyones feathers,
Kenneth




  From: Loran T. Hugheslo...@oldcrank.com
To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Apology to all

John,

You owe no one an apology. Yes, one purpose of the list is to share
further knowledge about the hobby. Phono-L is also a conduit for
socialization among those of us who share common bonds.

Folks, if you get your panties in a wad over some non-phono related
chatter, run your own listserve and make the rules. Hang out here, you
play by my rules.

Thanks,
Loran

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:21 AM, John Roblesjohn9...@pacbell.net  wrote:

Good morning all.
I received an email this morning from a list member stating that it would be nice if I did 
not use Phono-L for my personal email or soapbox, and that not everyone wants to hear 
all this. It was further stated that the purpose of Phono-L was to share and further our 
knowledge about our shared hobby. That is true.

I simply responded to a public message that was posted by a list member. I had written him privately asking 
him to let me know how he was doing. He answered publicly. Was it off subject? Yes. I did not use the list as 
a soap box' I merely made a compassionate response to a list member's message. I assume he 
received a similar response. I also assume that if the medical issue had been cancer or some other 
mainstream ailment, I would not have been accused of being on my soapbox, which 
implies a political attitude.

Be that as it may, I am sorry if my public response to a public message 
offended anyone. I will try to keep my compassion for suffering private from 
now on.

John Robles



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Re: [Phono-L] Looking for a screw for a BK....

[Rich]

You buy a 5-40 filster head machine screw, chuck it into your electric 
drill and file down the head. 
http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/MSCMSF.cfm


On 07/26/2012 11:38 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote:


The main problem with finding set screws, is not the 5-40 thread, it is the 
slot, as opposed to a socket head. I have a local fastener company that stocks 
a bazillion screws of all types and shapes and has plenty of stock, but slotted 
are real hard to find, unless they are new old stock. Collectors of antique 
machinery of all types have bought up all of the available stock of slotted 
screws. I recently searched for any size slotted set screws for my restoration 
of a Fairy Phono Lamp - no luck - not that they might be out there somewhere, 
just not commonly available any more.


Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:21:17 -0700
From: onatorr...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for a screw for a BK

Ron,
I don't know George Vollema that I know of. Is he here in the Phono-L list ? If 
not how do I contact him?
Ken



  From: Ron L'Heraultlhera...@bu.edu
To: 'Antique Phonograph List'phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for a screw for a BK

I think you are looking for a set screw, or grub screw, probably slotted.
Try searching for that.  have you asked George Vollema?

Ron L

-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Ken aka: OnATorrent
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:18 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for a screw for a BK

Hello all,

I am looking now for a headless screw for a Columba BK.  It is the size 5-40
and holds the rod that he caraige slides across above the feed screw and
gear.  It's for the rod that is in front of the mandrel.  There is only one
screw and it goes on the left side of the rod.  This is the BK with the
black bedplate.  I am hoping I can find some one with an original one that I
do not have to alter.  I called Dwyane Wyatt and he only has one that I
would have to screw in and then cut off.  That is not the way I want to go
about it if I can help it.  If any one has one I would be very happy to
purchase it.
I would also like to thank EVERYONE for all the help I have been given
here.  I live in a very rural mile square town with it being over 100 miles
to the nearest city.  It is so nice to be able to be in contact with other
collectors even though I do not get to meet anyone face to face. Maybe I
will be able to make it to the next Orlando, Florida show and get to see
some old friends and make some new ones.
Kenneth



From: Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.orgphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd:  Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachment.


Hi Ken,Please explain what you meant by the right hand side of the
attachment was missing... If it is just the bearing on the right side, you
already have one in your machine. He couldn't be referring to the feedscrew,
since that is permanently attached to the 2/4 gearing. The only other thing
would be the feedscrew tube, which you also already have. So, if he has the
feedscrew with the round gear case assembly attached and he has the BE plate
that has the locking post on it, you should be good. You might also need the
screws to attach the plate and the tube. Send a pic if you have one. Also,
let me know what he is asking, if you don't mind. My email is:
vinyl(dot)visions(at)live(dot)comCurt


Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 06:45:35 -0700
From: onatorr...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd:  Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachment.

I have a large collection of Edison 2 minute cylinders and was just in

fear that he diamond stylus in the H stylus would carve out or damage the
grooves in the was cylinders.  I know what you mean about wax breaking.  I
just broke my copy of Bake Dat Chicken Pie and I was almost in tears over
it.  Lucky for me I found someone willing to sell thiers and it is in better
condition than mine was.  So I guess it all worke out for the good.  But
thanks for your input.  I think I have found a 2/4 minute attachment for my
Sears Oxford that was made after the BKT so the BK conversion attachment
will work on it. How cool is that?  Still no luck on a complete Colubia BE
2/4 minute attachment.  I found someone that has most of one but missing the
right hand side of it.  I told him if he can find the other part I would be
more than happy to buy it.

Again, thanks for all your help,
Ken



  From: Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.orgphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd:  Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachment.


Hi Ken,Yes, you can play 2 minute cylinders with an H 

Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachment.

[Rich]

Locate your local high school physics teacher and get an explanation  of 
the relationship between the contact area of the stylus and the actual 
pressure in psi. The material (wax, vinyl etc.) will actually liquefy at 
the contact point from this pressure.


On 07/25/2012 08:20 AM, Steven Medved wrote:


Hello Kenneth,

If you play a blue amberol four minute record with a model C two minute you 
will get sound and you can tell what the song is which surprised me as I did 
not think you would get sound.  You never want to play a four minute with a two 
minute stylus.

With celluloid records the light weight and sapphire will not cause enough 
additional wear for you to ever notice.  Sapphire is softer than diamond and I 
am certain that the H styli will cause more wear than the proper two minute but 
again not enough to be concerned with.

There has been a debate about playing wax two minute records with a Model H for 
many years, one man said he has done this for over 20 years with no wear noted.

It is a fact that playing two minute records with a Model H will cause more 
wear, the contact area of the H is .0035 for Edison.  I would say occasional 
playing with of a wax record with a model H would not be bad, but it depends on 
how you want to treat your records.

For example playing a brown wax with a model C will cause addition wear and 
remove more wax because of the shape of the ball stylus.  Some people do not 
care.

I welcome discussion.

Steve




Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:57:04 -0700
From: onatorr...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachment.

Bob and Curt,
If I do have an Edison H Stylus put in my Lyric reproducer by Steven Medved, 
would I still be able to play 2 minute record with out damage to them?  The 
Edison 4 minute diamond stylus doesn't work on Edison 2 minute records, does 
it?  I have always used a K reproducer so I can switch between 2 and 4 minute 
cylinders.
This is all a learning experience for me about Columbia reproducers and 
conversion kits and the change in stylus needed.
Thanks to you both for your help, I really appreciate it very much.  Honestly 
even though I might not post always post on Phono-L, I do get a lot out of it 
and everyone that I have met here has been more than helpful.  I must say if it 
was not for Joan and Rob Rolfs in 1993 and how they introduced me to thier new 
Charter Chapter of M.A.P.S. in Wisconsin when I was only 26. Without meeting 
them I would have missed out on one of the greatist joys in my life. Now that I 
have been collecting for 19 years and 45 years old, I still learn new things 
and always will and other than that I feel I have met some of the nicest and 
honest people here that always reach out to me when I am in need of help.
Thanks to you both Bob and Curt, and thanks to everyone else that has made this 
a very enjoyable experience!
Kenneth Keeton

PS:  Sometime I will have to post here the story of how I just happened to walk 
in to collecting phonographs and how it was for me at an early age.  I feel I 
have a very interesting story that goes to show how wonderful our collecting 
community is.



From: Bob Maffitmaff...@bresnan.net
To: 'Antique Phonograph List'phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachment.

Ken:

I can attest to the same, Steve does very credible work at a down to earth
price.

later

Bob
-Original Message-
From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On
Behalf Of Vinyl Visions
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 8:14 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd: Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachmet.


Ken,If you do find a 2/4 conversion kit, you will also need a 4 minute
stylus in your Lyric reproducer. Finding a 4 min original Columbia
reproducer is another needle in a haystack and not cheap. I sent my original
2 minute Lyric to Steven Medved and he installed an Edison H needle bar and
stylus, along with a copper diaphragm, which works perfectly and solved my
problem. Steven is on the list frequently, so when you need him, just ask...
he does great work.Curt


Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:48:47 -0700
From: onatorr...@yahoo.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd:  Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachmet.

Curt,
Thanks for all the information.  I printed it out so I can refer back to

it later.  I do that with some posts so that it is easy for me to remember
and cataloged.

Thanks again,
Kenneth
PS:  I book marked your welcome page.



  From: Vinyl Visionsvinyl.visi...@live.com
To: phono-l@oldcrank.orgphono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Fwd:  Looking for info or a 2/4 minute attachmet.


Ken,
If you would like to see what a BE conversion looks like, go to our

webpage: 

Re: [Phono-L] Interesting Car horn on ebay

[Rich]

By the end of the brass era the bulb horn was gone and replaced with an 
electric horn. Cars with gas lights and no batteries used the bulb horn. 
Late teens was about th end of them. They sound like a whoopee cushion 
that has been stomped on...


On 07/22/2012 07:19 AM, Steven Medved wrote:


It looks like the auto horn maker clearly got the idea from a phonograph horn, 
did they and how long were these made?   Steve
From: aph4...@aol.com

Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 00:48:03 -0400
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Interesting horn on ebay

Thanks, I should have figured that out.  But I've never seen a black  and
brass auto horn before.  And that gives me a great  idea.  I can put a screen
on each of my horns and prevent the  inevitable entrance of moths and other
critters into my reproducers!

--Art Heller


In a message dated 7/21/2012 7:47:41 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
rich-m...@octoxol.com writes:

Automobile bulb horn. The reed fixture screwed onto the small end  of the
horn. Then the flex tube screwed onto the reed fixture. On th  eother end
of the air tight flex tube is attached the big read or black  rubber
honking bulb.

On 07/21/2012 05:19 PM, aph4...@aol.com  wrote:

An interesting horn has appeared on ebay recently.  But  I've never  seen
anything like it before. It has a screen at the  horn opening and I have

no

idea why. Maybe it keeps the moths out. Or  maybe it's not a phonograph

horn at

   all.  Any  thoughts?
Ebay # is 280921924514

Thanks, Art  Heller
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Re: [Phono-L] Interesting horn on ebay

[Rich]

Automobile bulb horn. The reed fixture screwed onto the small end of the 
horn. Then the flex tube screwed onto the reed fixture. On th eother end 
of the air tight flex tube is attached the big read or black rubber 
honking bulb.


On 07/21/2012 05:19 PM, aph4...@aol.com wrote:

An interesting horn has appeared on ebay recently.  But I've never  seen
anything like it before. It has a screen at the horn opening and I have no
idea why. Maybe it keeps the moths out. Or maybe it's not a phonograph horn at
  all.  Any thoughts?
Ebay # is 280921924514

Thanks, Art Heller
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http://phono-l.org



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