[PHP] htmlMicroscope-1.3.3, logAndHandler-0.8.2, with full sources.
Hi.
I've just fixed many bugs in two free components of mine;
htmlMicroscope (63kb) is used to display very large php/js arrays and
objects in the browser,
in a collapsed but expandable view. It's loaded with features that make
browsing large
datasets fun. This 1.3.3 release fixes many of the bugs that remained.
logAndHandler (29+63=92kb) is used to catch all PHP warnings, errors and
notices in $_SESSION, and
then let them be requested by the browser after window.onload in a hide-able
pane in body.
It allows applications to report details in an array, which is then
displayed by htmlMicroscope.
And it also creates a XHTML javascript log, again with htmlMicroscope
integration, and also support for console.trace().
The link for the demos is somewhat unstable at the moment,
i hope to get that improved within a month.
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads is the link to the demos.
For now, it may be best to go to
http://code.google.com/p/rene7705-assorted-libraries/ and get the
sources to run on your own php server. Mysql isn't used.
I should note that this release works best with firefox.
Browser compatibility remains an issue, to be dealt with later.
Perhaps you can help, the puzzles aren't easy.
Chrome kinda works, haven't tested safari yet.
I welcome any improvements or suggestions you might have for these
components.
For the interested, here's the problems with IE compatibility;
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/thread/74f75b92-591b-4108-84d7-7dcbbd2728f6
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/thread/0144911a-3037-45a7-8a59-4f200aa26bb4
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[PHP] The script tried to execute a method or access a property of an incomplete object.
Hi, i got this error that i can't figure out.. Maybe you can help;
Notice: mbConfig(): The script tried to execute a method or access a
property of an incomplete object. Please ensure that the class
definition classCoreDBtable of the object you are trying to operate
on was loaded _before_ unserialize() gets called or provide a
__autoload() function to load the class definition in
/media/500gb/data2/www/htdocs/work_myown/mediaBeez/php/lib_mediaBeez.php
on line 540
lib_mediaBeez.php:540+;
function mbConfig ($name) {
$value = null;
540:if (class_exists('classCoreDBtable')
isset($_SESSION[mb_site_preferences])
is_array($_SESSION[mb_site_preferences]-rec)) {
$sp = $_SESSION[mb_site_preferences];
if (array_key_exists($name, $sp-rec)) $value = $sp-rec[$name];
}
//defaults required?
if (is_null($value)) {
switch ($name) {
case sp_theme: $value=mediaBeez_default; break;
case sp_thumb_width : $value=95; break;
case sp_thumb_height : $value = 95; break;
case sp_midres_width : $value=800; break;
case sp_midres_height : $value = 600; break;
case sp_buttonTheme : $value=orangeGreenBlue; break;
case sp_menu_theme : $value=whiteBlue; break;
lib_mediaBeez.php:0;
?php
require_once (defines_mediaBeez.php);
require_once ('core_db_table.php');
So i do include the class, yet i get this error.
Any clues will be much appreciated..
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http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
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http://mediabeez.ws/music
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
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[PHP] Re: The script tried to execute a method or access a property of an incomplete object.
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, i got this error that i can't figure out.. Maybe you can help;
Notice: mbConfig(): The script tried to execute a method or access a
property of an incomplete object. Please ensure that the class
definition classCoreDBtable of the object you are trying to operate
on was loaded _before_ unserialize() gets called or provide a
__autoload() function to load the class definition in
/media/500gb/data2/www/htdocs/work_myown/mediaBeez/php/lib_mediaBeez.php
on line 540
I have a partial fix, thanks to
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/965611/forcing-access-to-php-incomplete-class-object-properties
function fixObject ($object)
{
if (!is_object ($object) gettype ($object) == 'object')
return ($object = unserialize (serialize ($object)));
return $object;
}
I believe this to be a hack, to call this function to fix my objects.
But it gets me going again.
I'm still holding out for more tips though ;)
lib_mediaBeez.php:540+;
function mbConfig ($name) {
$value = null;
540: if (class_exists('classCoreDBtable')
isset($_SESSION[mb_site_preferences])
is_array($_SESSION[mb_site_preferences]-rec)) {
$sp = $_SESSION[mb_site_preferences];
if (array_key_exists($name, $sp-rec)) $value =
$sp-rec[$name];
}
//defaults required?
if (is_null($value)) {
switch ($name) {
case sp_theme: $value=mediaBeez_default; break;
case sp_thumb_width : $value=95; break;
case sp_thumb_height : $value = 95; break;
case sp_midres_width : $value=800; break;
case sp_midres_height : $value = 600; break;
case sp_buttonTheme : $value=orangeGreenBlue; break;
case sp_menu_theme : $value=whiteBlue; break;
lib_mediaBeez.php:0;
?php
require_once (defines_mediaBeez.php);
require_once ('core_db_table.php');
So i do include the class, yet i get this error.
Any clues will be much appreciated..
--
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Greetings from Rene7705,
My free open source webcomponents:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
My music (i'm DJ firesnake)
http://mediabeez.ws/music
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
-
--
-
Greetings from Rene7705,
My free open source webcomponents:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
My music (i'm DJ firesnake)
http://mediabeez.ws/music
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
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Re: [PHP] In what scenario an extension of a class is useful?
inheritance of this kind is useful if you have common descendants for
specific types of object
object mammal (
function eat (mixed $food)
function shit ()
function sleep()
)
object carnivore extends mammal (
function eat (meat $food)
)
object herbivore extends mammal (
function eat (veggies $food)
)
now you can call the descendant mammal-eat() from carnivore-eat()
and herbivore-eat() to process foods.
their mammal-vitality settings (lets say its a subproperties-array)
will be updated, with custom handling taking place in carnivore-eat()
and herbivore-eat() while mammal-eat() is likely to update those
vitality properties..
another use, is a modification of a certain component.
descend it from the parent object and override the functions.
you can do pre processing and post processing by overriding functions.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Camilo Sperberg unrea...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everybody :)
I'm really intrigued on something... In what real-world applications could
an extension of a class be really useful?
Let's say I have this code:
class foo {
function hello_world($a) {
echo 'foo hello world';
}
function bye_world() {
echo 'foo bye world';
}
}
class bar extends foo {
function hello_world($a,$b) {
echo 'bar hello world';
}
}
Point 1: Why not just overwrite the hello_world method in the foo class in
the first place? Wouldn't that save code and possible incompatibility or
consistency issues between the code you've already written and between the
two classes ? (Assuming that you do some things based on the $a and $b
values).
Point 2: On the other hand, maybe I could apply different operations to both
(e.g.: return 1 in foo and 2 in bar), without breaking the basic
functionality already achieved in the foo class. (Maybe considering that I
want to apply an update or patch to an already existing application,
however, is this is the scenario, I should always fix the old code wherever
I invoke the foo class which returns us to point 1).
Point 3: Ok, maybe I don't want a specific class to be so huge and I
separate it into pieces of classes. But then again, wouldn't it be simpler
to just save some code and keeping only one file with the entire class?
Is it just that or do I miss something else? I'm not saying it is useless,
it sounds indeed fantastic to work with... but I just can't imagine in what
real-world cases this would be useful.
Greetings !
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http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
My music (i'm DJ firesnake)
http://mediabeez.ws/music
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
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Re: [PHP] $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] and sql injection
unlikely. it's a apache delivered ip address.. very little chance of insert vulnerabilities, imho. On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Tanel Tammik keevit...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, is there a vulnerability with using $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] in sql queries? Br Tanel -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) My music (i'm DJ firesnake) http://mediabeez.ws/music http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] editing a file
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Andres Gonzalez and...@packetstorm.com wrote: I have a large C source file that is generated by a separate source-generating program. When the generated src file is compiled, it produces tons of warnings. I want to edit the generated src file and delete the offending lines. What is the easiest way using a PHP script to read in a file, search for a particular signature, and delete a couple of lines? Seems like this would be very easy in PHP. file_get_contents() to get the file into a $string. preg_match_all(,,$matches) to get to what you need, str_replace() to replace $matches with your chosen replacements and there you are :) file_put_contents() to save the results.. Thanks, -Andres -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] html analyzer
Hi. I'm trying to build a html analyzer that looks at natural words in html text. I'd like to build a routine that walks through the HTML character by character, but i'm not sure on how to properly walk through escaped and ' characters in javascript or other embedded languages. Skipping the first and ' is no problem, but after that, the escaped and ', they can get difficult imo. If you have any ideas on this i'd like to hear 'm.. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] dompdf class problem
we don't have that class, nor it's documentation...?
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:17 PM, saeed ahmed saeed@gmail.com wrote:
I extremely sorry, if my topic isn't related with this group. I apologizes
for this.
I'm trying to add page number on the pdf. I have try the below code.
but couldn't get the page number at the pdf.
where I'm doing wrong. please suggest me.
?php
require_once(dompdf_config.inc.php);
$dompdf = new DOMPDF();
$html = 'htmlbody';
$html .='script type=text/php
$font = Font_Metrics::get_font(verdana, bold);
$dompdf-page_text(200, 16, {PAGE_NUM} of
{PAGE_COUNT}, $font,
10, array(0,0,0)); /script';
$html .= '/body/html';
$dompdf-load_html($html);
$dompdf-render();
$dompdf-stream(sample.pdf);
?
regards,
saeed
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Re: [PHP] Displaying errors
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Malka Cymbalista malki.cymbali...@weizmann.ac.il wrote: Hi all, we are running Apache 2.2.6 and PHP 5.2.6 on a Linux machine. If someone gets an error when displaying a php web page, he does not get any error message on the screen. The arror is written into the apache error log file, but most users don't have access to the apache error logand i would like the user to see the error on the screen. Is there anything I can do? thanks for any help. I've just built an experimental component logAndHandler which will display php errors in a developer user-attractive way, but it is in it's infancy. For instance, some startup errors don't make it into the logAndHandler window yet, which can be considered a bit of a problem for an error handler ;) I will continue work on it though, i'm using it myself for my commercial projects. http://mediabeez.ws/lah for a demo http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (download all my libraries link) -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] problem with passing-by-reference
Hi.
I'm doing the 5.3-strict thing, and am removing all my
passing-by-reference muck from a script of mine.
But i've run into a problem;
I use the following construct to push new values fairly deeply inside
an array structure;
$chase = chaseToReference ($wm, $path);
$arr = result($chase);
$arr[$v] = $lid;
$path is a flat-list array of indexes in $wm that have to be traversed
to get to the right portion of $wm.
a debug-dump of $wm and $arr after running this code shows $arr
correctly updated, but $wm not. :((
here are the functions involved, any help is much appreciated.
function chaseToReference ($array, $path) {
if (!empty($path)) {
if (empty($array[$path[0]])) {
return badResult (E_USER_WARNING, array(
'msg' = 'Could not walk the full tree',
'$path' = $path,
'$array (possibly partially walked)' = $array
));
} else return chaseToReference($array[$path[0]], array_slice($path, 1));
} else {
return goodResult($array);
}
}
function result($r) {
return $r['result'];
}
function goodResult($r) {
$r2 = array (
'isMetaForFunc' = true,
'result' = $r
);
return $r2;
}
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http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
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[PHP] Re: problem with passing-by-reference
changed all function-definitions to include a before their name,
no change in behavior though..
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi.
I'm doing the 5.3-strict thing, and am removing all my
passing-by-reference muck from a script of mine.
But i've run into a problem;
I use the following construct to push new values fairly deeply inside
an array structure;
$chase = chaseToReference ($wm, $path);
$arr = result($chase);
$arr[$v] = $lid;
$path is a flat-list array of indexes in $wm that have to be traversed
to get to the right portion of $wm.
a debug-dump of $wm and $arr after running this code shows $arr
correctly updated, but $wm not. :((
here are the functions involved, any help is much appreciated.
function chaseToReference ($array, $path) {
if (!empty($path)) {
if (empty($array[$path[0]])) {
return badResult (E_USER_WARNING, array(
'msg' = 'Could not walk the full tree',
'$path' = $path,
'$array (possibly partially walked)' = $array
));
} else return chaseToReference($array[$path[0]], array_slice($path, 1));
} else {
return goodResult($array);
}
}
function result($r) {
return $r['result'];
}
function goodResult($r) {
$r2 = array (
'isMetaForFunc' = true,
'result' = $r
);
return $r2;
}
--
-
Greetings from Rene7705,
My free open source webcomponents:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
-
--
-
Greetings from Rene7705,
My free open source webcomponents:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
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[PHP] Re: problem with passing-by-reference
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi.
I'm doing the 5.3-strict thing, and am removing all my
passing-by-reference muck from a script of mine.
But i've run into a problem;
I use the following construct to push new values fairly deeply inside
an array structure;
$chase = chaseToReference ($wm, $path);
$arr = result($chase);
$arr[$v] = $lid;
$path is a flat-list array of indexes in $wm that have to be traversed
to get to the right portion of $wm.
a debug-dump of $wm and $arr after running this code shows $arr
correctly updated, but $wm not. :((
here are the functions involved, any help is much appreciated.
function chaseToReference ($array, $path) {
if (!empty($path)) {
if (empty($array[$path[0]])) {
return badResult (E_USER_WARNING, array(
'msg' = 'Could not walk the full tree',
'$path' = $path,
'$array (possibly partially walked)' = $array
));
} else return chaseToReference($array[$path[0]], array_slice($path, 1));
} else {
return goodResult($array);
}
}
function result($r) {
return $r['result'];
}
function goodResult($r) {
$r2 = array (
'isMetaForFunc' = true,
'result' = $r
);
return $r2;
}
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote:
changed all function-definitions to include a before their name,
no change in behavior though..
And then, change the calling code to:
$chase = chaseToReference ($wm, $path);
$arr = result($chase);
$arr[$v] = $lid;
and it works :))
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[PHP] wondering how to catch notice errors properly
I have an custom error handler that i initialize as such; error_reporting(E_ALL); $oldError_handler = set_error_handler(nonFatalErrorHandler); with this, notices are still displayed as single line visible html. i'd like to catch the notices and push them into a db. any ideas on how i do that? -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: wondering how to catch notice errors properly
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 1:06 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: I have an custom error handler that i initialize as such; error_reporting(E_ALL); $oldError_handler = set_error_handler(nonFatalErrorHandler); with this, notices are still displayed as single line visible html. i'd like to catch the notices and push them into a db. any ideas on how i do that? http://www.codeunit.co.za/2009/09/09/php-how-to-catch-a-script-warning-or-notice/ has the answer :) -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- - Greetings from Rene7705, My free open source webcomponents: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos) http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Array differences
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Nathan Rixham nrix...@gmail.com wrote: Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Tue, 2010-04-13 at 23:01 -0600, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: However what I really want is a two-way comparison. I want elements that don't exist in either to be returned: I don't see any problems with doing it that way. By some freak chance I made an array diff class about 2 weeks ago which covers what you need. attached :) usage: $diff = new ArrayDiff( $old , $new ); $diff-l; // deleted items $diff-r; // inserted items $diff-u; // unchanged items The script is optimised for huge arrays, thus it's slower for small arrays than the usual array_diff but with large arrays it's quicker. Regards Nathan -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php nice one :) i'll put it in a work-preperation folder for htmlMicroscope then, one of these days :) -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) Personal info about me is available through http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: would there be an interest in having htmlMicroscope include dygraphs?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: htmlMicroscope (that i wrote and opensourced) can be used to look at very big arrays easilly in a browser. I fully intend to fix the final bugs and release a real 1.3.0 release, and not abandon that project.. In fact, i could use a simple project to work on atm, to re-focus myself on useful work and a useful day-night rythm (as made apparent by my recent off-topic and weird posts to this list).. I would like to include http://www.danvk.org/dygraphs/ into htmlMicroscope. Would you think it usefull? htmlMicroscope can be downloaded through the googlecode link in my signature.. Again, please excuse my recent off-topic posting to this list. My psychiateric out-patient help team has confirmed that they were informed by a member of this list of my recent [OFF-TOPIC] post in dutch (of which i cannot even be sure if everyone got that mail), but i do thank you people for reporting me to said psychiateric help team. My contact with them is good, they did not invite me for a irl conversation. I'm allowed to stay at my parents and heal myself (from sleep-deprivation) under the guidance of my dear parents. Please people, just +1 or -1 this idea of adding dygraphs to htmlMicroscope. The coding should be simple, and i do promise to clean up the 1.3.0-beta-rc1 to a real 1.3.0 version that works properly for displaying arrays with unicode data, json-arrays-as-keys, etc, ranging 100-200mb in transport-to-browser-size.. Yes, i am a bit worried about being seen as the weird psycho on this forum. Psychotic i'm not, just sleep-deprived a bit, and i've slept very well in the past 72 hrs. Over 10hrs per 24hrs for the past 72hrs. So i'm healing, not degrading. And of course i'm taking (dutch brandname:) risperdal quicklets, as per my mum's orders (rather than a psych worker's closed ward orders).. I'll be doing house-cleanup in about a week, and will be spending nights at home in about 2 weeks, allowing me probably to put mediabeez.ws back up online for development versions of htmlMicroscope. Again, my apologies for poluting the list with what is considered too-off-topic Please do not inform the psych-services again of any posts of mine here mentioning telepathy. It was already reported to them, and they (Noortje) actually called me and we talked it over, that it shouldn't happen again, me posting private conversations onto some random list. My reasons for posting [OFF-TOPIC] telepathy and psychiatery to this list were simple; i was trying to alleviate the fears of other telepaths like me, to prevent _them_ from having to go through the hell of psychiateric closed wards... Please help me get back into programming. Oh, and if anyone asks about me, point me to my facebook page. Just don't rat me out to psych services and/or my family, who cannot handle that level of information yet. oh, and telepathy is not considered a dellusion by everyone; these websites are _not_ mine; http://www.telepathyrevealed.com http://social-psychiatry.com/telepathy-techniques-develop-abilities/; -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) You can also find me on facebook.com under email addr rene7...@gmail.com.. - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] would there be an interest in having htmlMicroscope include dygraphs?
htmlMicroscope (that i wrote and opensourced) can be used to look at very big arrays easilly in a browser. I fully intend to fix the final bugs and release a real 1.3.0 release, and not abandon that project.. In fact, i could use a simple project to work on atm, to re-focus myself on useful work and a useful day-night rythm (as made apparent by my recent off-topic and weird posts to this list).. I would like to include http://www.danvk.org/dygraphs/ into htmlMicroscope. Would you think it usefull? htmlMicroscope can be downloaded through the googlecode link in my signature.. Again, please excuse my recent off-topic posting to this list. My psychiateric out-patient help team has confirmed that they were informed by a member of this list of my recent [OFF-TOPIC] post in dutch (of which i cannot even be sure if everyone got that mail), but i do thank you people for reporting me to said psychiateric help team. My contact with them is good, they did not invite me for a irl conversation. I'm allowed to stay at my parents and heal myself (from sleep-deprivation) under the guidance of my dear parents. Please people, just +1 or -1 this idea of adding dygraphs to htmlMicroscope. The coding should be simple, and i do promise to clean up the 1.3.0-beta-rc1 to a real 1.3.0 version that works properly for displaying arrays with unicode data, json-arrays-as-keys, etc, ranging 100-200mb in transport-to-browser-size.. Yes, i am a bit worried about being seen as the weird psycho on this forum. Psychotic i'm not, just sleep-deprived a bit, and i've slept very well in the past 72 hrs. Over 10hrs per 24hrs for the past 72hrs. So i'm healing, not degrading. And of course i'm taking (dutch brandname:) risperdal quicklets, as per my mum's orders (rather than a psych worker's closed ward orders).. I'll be doing house-cleanup in about a week, and will be spending nights at home in about 2 weeks, allowing me probably to put mediabeez.ws back up online for development versions of htmlMicroscope. Again, my apologies for poluting the list with what is considered too-off-topic Please do not inform the psych-services again of any posts of mine here mentioning telepathy. It was already reported to them, and they (Noortje) actually called me and we talked it over, that it shouldn't happen again, me posting private conversations onto some random list. My reasons for posting [OFF-TOPIC] telepathy and psychiatery to this list were simple; i was trying to alleviate the fears of other telepaths like me, to prevent _them_ from having to go through the hell of psychiateric closed wards... Please help me get back into programming. Oh, and if anyone asks about me, point me to my facebook page. Just don't rat me out to psych services and/or my family, who cannot handle that level of information yet. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) You can also find me on facebook.com under email addr rene7...@gmail.com.. - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: would there be an interest in having htmlMicroscope include dygraphs?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:23 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: htmlMicroscope (that i wrote and opensourced) can be used to look at very big arrays easilly in a browser. I fully intend to fix the final bugs and release a real 1.3.0 release, and not abandon that project.. In fact, i could use a simple project to work on atm, to re-focus myself on useful work and a useful day-night rythm (as made apparent by my recent off-topic and weird posts to this list).. I would like to include http://www.danvk.org/dygraphs/ into htmlMicroscope. Would you think it usefull? htmlMicroscope can be downloaded through the googlecode link in my signature.. Again, please excuse my recent off-topic posting to this list. My psychiateric out-patient help team has confirmed that they were informed by a member of this list of my recent [OFF-TOPIC] post in dutch (of which i cannot even be sure if everyone got that mail), but i do thank you people for reporting me to said psychiateric help team. My contact with them is good, they did not invite me for a irl conversation. I'm allowed to stay at my parents and heal myself (from sleep-deprivation) under the guidance of my dear parents. Please people, just +1 or -1 this idea of adding dygraphs to htmlMicroscope. The coding should be simple, and i do promise to clean up the 1.3.0-beta-rc1 to a real 1.3.0 version that works properly for displaying arrays with unicode data, json-arrays-as-keys, etc, ranging 100-200mb in transport-to-browser-size.. Yes, i am a bit worried about being seen as the weird psycho on this forum. Psychotic i'm not, just sleep-deprived a bit, and i've slept very well in the past 72 hrs. Over 10hrs per 24hrs for the past 72hrs. So i'm healing, not degrading. And of course i'm taking (dutch brandname:) risperdal quicklets, as per my mum's orders (rather than a psych worker's closed ward orders).. I'll be doing house-cleanup in about a week, and will be spending nights at home in about 2 weeks, allowing me probably to put mediabeez.ws back up online for development versions of htmlMicroscope. Again, my apologies for poluting the list with what is considered too-off-topic Please do not inform the psych-services again of any posts of mine here mentioning telepathy. It was already reported to them, and they (Noortje) actually called me and we talked it over, that it shouldn't happen again, me posting private conversations onto some random list. My reasons for posting [OFF-TOPIC] telepathy and psychiatery to this list were simple; i was trying to alleviate the fears of other telepaths like me, to prevent _them_ from having to go through the hell of psychiateric closed wards... Please help me get back into programming. Oh, and if anyone asks about me, point me to my facebook page. Just don't rat me out to psych services and/or my family, who cannot handle that level of information yet. oh, and telepathy is not considered a dellusion by everyone; these websites are _not_ mine; http://www.telepathyrevealed.com http://social-psychiatry.com/telepathy-techniques-develop-abilities/; i'm moving all my telepathy comments to my facebook page; http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?v=inforef=profileid=11004170278 (hope that url works for you too).. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) You can also find me on facebook.com under email addr rene7...@gmail.com.. - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: would there be an interest in having htmlMicroscope include dygraphs?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:23 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: htmlMicroscope (that i wrote and opensourced) can be used to look at very big arrays easilly in a browser. I fully intend to fix the final bugs and release a real 1.3.0 release, and not abandon that project.. In fact, i could use a simple project to work on atm, to re-focus myself on useful work and a useful day-night rythm (as made apparent by my recent off-topic and weird posts to this list).. I would like to include http://www.danvk.org/dygraphs/ into htmlMicroscope. Would you think it usefull? htmlMicroscope can be downloaded through the googlecode link in my signature.. Again, please excuse my recent off-topic posting to this list. My psychiateric out-patient help team has confirmed that they were informed by a member of this list of my recent [OFF-TOPIC] post in dutch (of which i cannot even be sure if everyone got that mail), but i do thank you people for reporting me to said psychiateric help team. My contact with them is good, they did not invite me for a irl conversation. I'm allowed to stay at my parents and heal myself (from sleep-deprivation) under the guidance of my dear parents. Please people, just +1 or -1 this idea of adding dygraphs to htmlMicroscope. The coding should be simple, and i do promise to clean up the 1.3.0-beta-rc1 to a real 1.3.0 version that works properly for displaying arrays with unicode data, json-arrays-as-keys, etc, ranging 100-200mb in transport-to-browser-size.. Yes, i am a bit worried about being seen as the weird psycho on this forum. Psychotic i'm not, just sleep-deprived a bit, and i've slept very well in the past 72 hrs. Over 10hrs per 24hrs for the past 72hrs. So i'm healing, not degrading. And of course i'm taking (dutch brandname:) risperdal quicklets, as per my mum's orders (rather than a psych worker's closed ward orders).. I'll be doing house-cleanup in about a week, and will be spending nights at home in about 2 weeks, allowing me probably to put mediabeez.ws back up online for development versions of htmlMicroscope. Again, my apologies for poluting the list with what is considered too-off-topic Please do not inform the psych-services again of any posts of mine here mentioning telepathy. It was already reported to them, and they (Noortje) actually called me and we talked it over, that it shouldn't happen again, me posting private conversations onto some random list. My reasons for posting [OFF-TOPIC] telepathy and psychiatery to this list were simple; i was trying to alleviate the fears of other telepaths like me, to prevent _them_ from having to go through the hell of psychiateric closed wards... Please help me get back into programming. Oh, and if anyone asks about me, point me to my facebook page. Just don't rat me out to psych services and/or my family, who cannot handle that level of information yet. oh, and telepathy is not considered a dellusion by everyone; these websites are _not_ mine; http://www.telepathyrevealed.com http://social-psychiatry.com/telepathy-techniques-develop-abilities/; i'm moving all my telepathy comments to my facebook page; http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?v=inforef=profileid=11004170278 (hope that url works for you too).. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) You can also find me on facebook.com under email addr rene7...@gmail.com.. - my latest signature, with actual facebook link: think that'll do it for now.. any weird extra comments of mine i'll simply post to this thread on this list only.. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) You can also find me on facebook.com http://www.facebook.com/people/Rene-Veerman/11004170278 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Array differences
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Ashley M. Kirchner ash...@pcraft.com wrote: I have the following scenario: $array1 = array(12, 34, 56, 78, 90); $array2 = array(12, 23, 56, 78, 89); $result = array_diff($array1, $array2); print_r($result); This returns: Array ( [1] = 34 [4] = 90 ) However what I really want is a two-way comparison. I want elements that don't exist in either to be returned: 34 and 90 because they don't exist in $array2, AND 23 and 89 because they don't exist in $array1. So, is that a two step process of first doing an array_diff($array1, $array2) then reverse it by doing array_diff($array2, $array1) and merge/unique the results? Any caveats with that? $array1 = array(12, 34, 56, 78, 90); $array2 = array(12, 23, 56, 78, 89); $diff1 = array_diff($array1, $array2); $diff2 = array_diff($array2, $array1); $result = array_unique(array_merge($diff1, $diff2)); print_r($result); -- A ok, adding this to the todo-list for htmlMicroscope... ETA on delivery of 1.3.0-final: about 2 to 3 months i'm afraid. Gotta get a new laundromat for my home too and stuff like that :) -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through: http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) Personal info about me is available through http://www.facebook.com/rene7705 - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] another useless message.
Service Announcement :)) htmlMicroscope on http://mediabeez.ws/ is down because of technical difficulties, not-related to the body of the owner of the machine that runs mediabeez.ws atm. That mediabeez.ws runs on a home PC (ubuntu karmic), but i'm away from home atm, travelling around, and the thing has died on me too many times, so i'm not even going to try to ssh to it atm.. Please apologize my earlier -way out of line for a list like this- remarks about letting programmers hit me, and me taking them down without any effort. I was _STRESSED_ when i wrote that. Again, please take this as: mediabeez.ws will be back up, with the 3 open-source gifts i have. If you need the latest development copy of htmlMicroscope (something to look at very large arrays in a browser with), then google for htmlmicroscope and use the googlecode.com(?) link. My other components, visCanvasLoaderGraphic/Icon and buttonAnimated (jQuery based), are not available online anywhere. But you may pass them around of course, as per open source contract styles.. Good luck, and take care of your loved ones, as i am doing atm. Greetings, Rene Veerman Somewhere in .nl, nice weather atm. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Beginner's question: How to run a PHP web application locally?
cmon, just search for ubuntu install lamp via google.. or google for download ubuntu, select the stable branch (karmic), install it, and then type this into a terminal window: sudo apt-get install apache2 mysql5 php5 from there, running LAMP development on linux should be a breeze for you. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Bastien Helders eldroskan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi List, The other day, I read an article that mentioned about a tool that would permit to simulate a web environment for PHP, so that testing could be made before uploading the page on the server. Unfortunately, I don't seem to find the article again. So here am I with this question: What should I need to set my test environment? I'm working on Windows, but I'm all ears for solution on Linux systems. Best Regards, Bastien -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] another useless message.
lolz :)) u try to be nice, and this is what u get?!?! :-D On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Nilesh Govindarajan li...@itech7.com wrote: Somebody ban this person. He/she is creating nuisance here. ^) -- Nilesh Govindarajan Site Server Administrator www.itech7.com मेरा भारत महान ! मम भारत: महत्तम भवतु ! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] another useless message.
ok, you're right, of course. me posting that was not just about another plug for htmlmicroscope. there were other, secret, considerations, that led me to post that. --!! but i hereby promise to really try to use only bottom-posting replies and cut-out-posting replies on this list in winter time, when i actually can afford the concentration to supply useful programming tips. --!! right now, i'm still a bit stressed. personal reasons. On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 April 2010 12:20, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: lolz :)) u try to be nice, and this is what u get?!?! :-D Rene, it's nice of you to post messages on the availability of some OS tools. However, you should also be aware that it's a minority of people on this list that use those tools - which in effect means that you're posting stuff that at best is irrelevant to a lot of people and at worst is seen as spam by those people. That said, there can be little doubt that the response you got went a tad too far - some netiquette lessons would be useful, I think. -- hype WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 /hype -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] another useless message.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Dan Joseph dmjos...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 6:28 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: That said, there can be little doubt that the response you got went a tad too far - some netiquette lessons would be useful, I think. In defense of the people that react harshly, there has been a lot of people who just spam the list over the years. Its a natural reaction. You may want to put that kind of thing in your signature also. Rather than making announcements that bother people, when you participate, your message will go out. Although, don't make it 100 lines long... -- -Dan Joseph www.canishosting.com - Unlimited Hosting Plans start @ $3.95/month. Promo Code NEWTHINGS for 10% off initial order http://www.facebook.com/canishosting http://www.facebook.com/originalpoetry Very good point; i've set a gmail signature, which will not change much i believe. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, creator of open-source web-components: htmlMicroscope(googlecode), visCanvasLoaderIcon(not online atm), and buttonAnimate (jQuery based, not online atm). -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] another useless message.
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 12:08 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Dan Joseph dmjos...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 6:28 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: That said, there can be little doubt that the response you got went a tad too far - some netiquette lessons would be useful, I think. In defense of the people that react harshly, there has been a lot of people who just spam the list over the years. Its a natural reaction. You may want to put that kind of thing in your signature also. Rather than making announcements that bother people, when you participate, your message will go out. Although, don't make it 100 lines long... -- -Dan Joseph www.canishosting.com - Unlimited Hosting Plans start @ $3.95/month. Promo Code NEWTHINGS for 10% off initial order http://www.facebook.com/canishosting http://www.facebook.com/originalpoetry Very good point; i've set a gmail signature, which will not change much i believe. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, creator of open-source web-components: htmlMicroscope(googlecode), visCanvasLoaderIcon(not online atm), and buttonAnimate (jQuery based, not online atm). ok, last one then; my sig is now this; and i'm posting this because i took the effort to put my other components online too.. this'll be my final sig for a while i think. -- - Greetings from Rene7705, I have made some free open source webcomponents designed and written by me available through http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline) - -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] convert a string into an array
it's about telepathy. mass-telepathy ;)
telepathic pressure.
death threats through telepathy, of which i've had quite a few in past weeks..
fear begets fear begets disease...
but thanks for the compliment ;)
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Nathan Rixham nrix...@gmail.com wrote:
you sure you're only smoking cigarettes?
has to be one of the most random replies to any php thread I've ever
seen - awesome!
regards
Rene Veerman wrote:
yea i'm not the only one with those type of problems. sometimes times
slows down in my room so much not even my speakers sound normal
anymore; equipment that doesn't work (despite being crappy and known
by it's patterns of refusal to work; still EXTRA abnormal since about
a week or so)...
it sounds like the who's reading my passwords with me while i type 'm
in... === 'is there anyone looking over my shoulder despite no living
humans even in my entire properly locked room (with strong walls)'
the idea here is; take a break. work on a different project for a week
or so, but the best idea is; move around through the country side and
realize that your car will get gas at every gasstation... check your
atm cards, but not your online banking account status, just to buy a
pack of cigarettes with an atm card. and then, buy not 1 or 2 packs of
your favorite smokes(cigarettes in this case), but buy 10 packs with
that card, and make sure you have enough good old cash that you know
to be truely valid (coins are best) to get just 2 large packs of
cigarettes..
things like that will give you the confidence you need to proceed on
your project i think..
the #1 rule i use (when you dont yet have any need for a #0 rule or a
#-1 rule (dont add those lightly and never on a whim or hope of being
saved from death in the next 5 minutes)) is: truely honest living
humans should never use the same type of lie construct in the same
type of situation for the second time within at least 1 to 3 weeks..
but hey, necessity may require you to break any rule...
rules? only guidelines are usefull ;) (pirates of the caribean #1 movie)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Andre Polykanine an...@oire.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
It's quite simple but I'm still stuck.
What I need is the following: I have an array as a parameter of my
custom function. However, I'd like to allow users to enter a string
instead of an array. In this case (if the parameter is a string), it
must be replaced with an array containing only one item - actually,
that string.
What I'm doing gives me (presumably) errors;
function Send ($tonames, $toemails, $subject, $message) {
...
if ((!is_array($tonames)) || (!is_array($toemails))) {
$tonames[]=$tonames;
$toemails[]=$toemails;
}
I can't give the new array a new name since I address it further in a
loop as my function's parameter... hope you understand what I'm
saying)
Thanks!
--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Http://oire.org/ - The Fantasy blogs of Oire
Skype: Francophile; WlmMSN: arthaelon @ yandex.ru; Jabber: arthaelon @
jabber.org
Yahoo! messenger: andre.polykanine; ICQ: 191749952
Twitter: http://twitter.com/m_elensule
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
-
Greetings from Rene7705,
I have made some free open source webcomponents designed
and written by me available through:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or
http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline)
-
--
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] convert a string into an array
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Ashley Sheridan
a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote:
On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 05:53 +0100, Nathan Rixham wrote:
you sure you're only smoking cigarettes?
has to be one of the most random replies to any php thread I've ever
seen - awesome!
regards
Rene Veerman wrote:
yea i'm not the only one with those type of problems. sometimes times
slows down in my room so much not even my speakers sound normal
anymore; equipment that doesn't work (despite being crappy and known
by it's patterns of refusal to work; still EXTRA abnormal since about
a week or so)...
it sounds like the who's reading my passwords with me while i type 'm
in... === 'is there anyone looking over my shoulder despite no living
humans even in my entire properly locked room (with strong walls)'
the idea here is; take a break. work on a different project for a week
or so, but the best idea is; move around through the country side and
realize that your car will get gas at every gasstation... check your
atm cards, but not your online banking account status, just to buy a
pack of cigarettes with an atm card. and then, buy not 1 or 2 packs of
your favorite smokes(cigarettes in this case), but buy 10 packs with
that card, and make sure you have enough good old cash that you know
to be truely valid (coins are best) to get just 2 large packs of
cigarettes..
things like that will give you the confidence you need to proceed on
your project i think..
the #1 rule i use (when you dont yet have any need for a #0 rule or a
#-1 rule (dont add those lightly and never on a whim or hope of being
saved from death in the next 5 minutes)) is: truely honest living
humans should never use the same type of lie construct in the same
type of situation for the second time within at least 1 to 3 weeks..
but hey, necessity may require you to break any rule...
rules? only guidelines are usefull ;) (pirates of the caribean #1 movie)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Andre Polykanine an...@oire.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
It's quite simple but I'm still stuck.
What I need is the following: I have an array as a parameter of my
custom function. However, I'd like to allow users to enter a string
instead of an array. In this case (if the parameter is a string), it
must be replaced with an array containing only one item - actually,
that string.
What I'm doing gives me (presumably) errors;
function Send ($tonames, $toemails, $subject, $message) {
...
if ((!is_array($tonames)) || (!is_array($toemails))) {
$tonames[]=$tonames;
$toemails[]=$toemails;
}
I can't give the new array a new name since I address it further in a
loop as my function's parameter... hope you understand what I'm
saying)
Thanks!
--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Http://oire.org/ http://oire.org/ - The Fantasy blogs of Oire
Skype: Francophile; WlmMSN: arthaelon @ yandex.ru; Jabber: arthaelon @
jabber.org
Yahoo! messenger: andre.polykanine; ICQ: 191749952
Twitter: http://twitter.com/m_elensule
--
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Virus maybe?
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
yup, i'm on the global anti-t-viral team.
and as such more often a target of deaththreats through telepathy than most
other humans in my (economic) position.
however, if you dont believe in telepathy; KEEP IT THAT WAY :)))
hearing voices is only the snow on the tip of the iceberg when it comes to
telepathy (between (living) humans and non-human intelligences..
and i'll really try to make this my last telepathy-related post to this
list, this year at least...
--
-
Greetings from Rene7705,
I have made some free open source webcomponents designed
and written by me available through:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/ , or
http://mediabeez.ws (latest dev versions, currently offline)
-
[PHP] Re: Medical Task Force
hello world :) yea, i have some exp with coding and medical science too.. i'm not a packager of any ubuntu software center stuff, but i have built and released open source software before.. it's usually stored at http://mediabeez.ws/ but the computer that's running on has crashed and acted very very weirdly (too often in the last minute / hour / day / did-that-same-weirdness-about-a-week-ago aswell).. so mediabeez.ws will be back up, and to prove that i wrote htmlMicroscope, check the php-general mailinglist for php-coders. keyword htmlMicroscope. A working copy of that can be found on google code too. If you have any serious, non personal computer related issues or serverpark issues, then i'm willing to be invited to a mailinglist of yours where despite me not being on the ubuntu-dev or debian-dev teams, maybe i can occasionally provide a small bit of advice here and there. but don't expect me to make descisions for groups of other living humans or whatever they think is going on. i'm not a priest / politician / leader-type. unless ABSOLUTELY necessary... if u know what i mean. ciao for now ppl ;) On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 11:32 PM, Sascha 'saigkill' Manns samann...@directbox.com wrote: Hello Mates, warm Greetings from the openSUSE Community. We all knowing that we have a lack of Software from Medical needs (Medicine Doctors or Clinics). So we (the openSUSE, Fedora and Debian Developers) have founded an Special Task Force for building new Packages with Medical needs. We trying to share our Experience and Patches. So we are pleased to invite the Ubuntu Project, to be a part of this Task Force. If you're an Packager or interested in learning that, you're welcome. Please answer to this List. Have a nice evening... -- Sincerely yours Sascha Manns openSUSE Community Support Agent openSUSE Marketing Team Blog: http://saigkill.wordpress.com Web: http://www.open-slx.de (openSUSE Box Support German) Web: http://www.open-slx.com (openSUSE Box Support English) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Fwd: Medical Task Force
hey, i did not fake that cc header on my last mail. i just hit reply-all and added php-general because i find it significant for this list too.. and guys, i'm very very sorry to have ever used walk over to you-language against fellow programmers, i'll try to refrain from such behaviour in the future, but i was very stressed already that week. and i have reason to fear more stress in coming weeks, but i'll be fine.. anyways, i wont be techposting for a while i think. mediabeez.ws will stay offline for months maybe 8 months even... -- Forwarded message -- From: Sascha 'saigkill' Manns samann...@directbox.com Date: Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Medical Task Force To: ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com, schultz.patr...@gmail.com Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com Am Freitag, 2. April 2010 02:14:15 wrote schultz.patr...@gmail.com: I would also be interested; I currently write software for RIS/PACS machines. Is there a website with more information? Regards, Patrick Schultz Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Bruno Girin brunogi...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:52:22 To: ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Medical Task Force Hi Sasha, On Thu, 2010-04-01 at 23:32 +0200, Sascha 'saigkill' Manns wrote: Hello Mates, warm Greetings from the openSUSE Community. We all knowing that we have a lack of Software from Medical needs (Medicine Doctors or Clinics). So we (the openSUSE, Fedora and Debian Developers) have founded an Special Task Force for building new Packages with Medical needs. We trying to share our Experience and Patches. So we are pleased to invite the Ubuntu Project, to be a part of this Task Force. If you're an Packager or interested in learning that, you're welcome. Please answer to this List. I have no knowledge in packaging but I would be very interested to learn and to be part of this task force. I have experience working with the NHS in the UK, hence the interest. I'm not sure that's any help though :-) First of all we have created an distro specific Subproject: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE-Medical http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMedical http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med/ Mailinglists: opensuse-medical (subscribe opensuse-medical+subscr...@opensuse.org) fedora-medical (subscribe https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/medical-sig) debian-med (subscribe http://lists.debian.org/debian-med/) All from the Task Force has subscribed all that Mailinglists. Maybe it is possible to create an Medical Subproject in Ubuntu with an own Maillinglist. Have a nice day :-) -- Sincerely yours Sascha Manns openSUSE Community Support Agent openSUSE Marketing Team Blog: http://saigkill.wordpress.com Web: http://www.open-slx.de (openSUSE Box Support German) Web: http://www.open-slx.com (openSUSE Box Support English) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list ubuntu-devel-disc...@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] convert a string into an array
yea i'm not the only one with those type of problems. sometimes times
slows down in my room so much not even my speakers sound normal
anymore; equipment that doesn't work (despite being crappy and known
by it's patterns of refusal to work; still EXTRA abnormal since about
a week or so)...
it sounds like the who's reading my passwords with me while i type 'm
in... === 'is there anyone looking over my shoulder despite no living
humans even in my entire properly locked room (with strong walls)'
the idea here is; take a break. work on a different project for a week
or so, but the best idea is; move around through the country side and
realize that your car will get gas at every gasstation... check your
atm cards, but not your online banking account status, just to buy a
pack of cigarettes with an atm card. and then, buy not 1 or 2 packs of
your favorite smokes(cigarettes in this case), but buy 10 packs with
that card, and make sure you have enough good old cash that you know
to be truely valid (coins are best) to get just 2 large packs of
cigarettes..
things like that will give you the confidence you need to proceed on
your project i think..
the #1 rule i use (when you dont yet have any need for a #0 rule or a
#-1 rule (dont add those lightly and never on a whim or hope of being
saved from death in the next 5 minutes)) is: truely honest living
humans should never use the same type of lie construct in the same
type of situation for the second time within at least 1 to 3 weeks..
but hey, necessity may require you to break any rule...
rules? only guidelines are usefull ;) (pirates of the caribean #1 movie)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Andre Polykanine an...@oire.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
It's quite simple but I'm still stuck.
What I need is the following: I have an array as a parameter of my
custom function. However, I'd like to allow users to enter a string
instead of an array. In this case (if the parameter is a string), it
must be replaced with an array containing only one item - actually,
that string.
What I'm doing gives me (presumably) errors;
function Send ($tonames, $toemails, $subject, $message) {
...
if ((!is_array($tonames)) || (!is_array($toemails))) {
$tonames[]=$tonames;
$toemails[]=$toemails;
}
I can't give the new array a new name since I address it further in a
loop as my function's parameter... hope you understand what I'm
saying)
Thanks!
--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Http://oire.org/ - The Fantasy blogs of Oire
Skype: Francophile; WlmMSN: arthaelon @ yandex.ru; Jabber: arthaelon @
jabber.org
Yahoo! messenger: andre.polykanine; ICQ: 191749952
Twitter: http://twitter.com/m_elensule
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Stuart Dallas stut...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 Mar 2010, at 20:34, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 22:15 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: Do you have any proof of this 'market trend'? I suggested a vote, but you 'nay-sayed' it on the basis that you'd lose to people who couldn't possibly know as much as you do. yes, twitter. facebook. the fact that a graphics upgrade would likely increase business for the first ones on that popularity level to implement it. that's the proof i have for the market trend. Again, improving the graphical content of a website has absolutely no effect on the performance of PHP. The additional time the page takes to load is all about network latency and how well you've arranged your static file serving. right now my cms is 2D, and indeed most of the graphics are static then. but i have plans to lift it into 3D, with rooms interacting via avatars, and then the graphics-selection and avatar-behavior (animations) selections alone i suspect will put much extra stress on the servers. especially if i have to use sql servers to handle the datastreams. oh, and the fact cloud computing is becoming more and more of a buzzword in the industry. Cloud computing really doesn't mean what you think it means. its a flexible term eh.. others' definitions are clearly not always aligned with yours. I wouldn't say I belonged to any particular camp at the start of this thread, but now, having read what my betters have said, I'm inclined to agree that threading isn't the magic wand that you seem to think it is. I personally see one of the largest sites in the world running on PHP without needing threading and without insulting half the list to attempt to get it. you haven't offered me any description at all of how i'd solve the large-scale realtime-web-app with existing techniques. By realtime-web-app you mean something like Facebook? They use a combination of PHP, Memcached (and lots of it), MySQL and lots of other layers in-between to do what they do, and threaded PHP is not one of them. i suppose facebook and twitter are the earliest examples of a near-realtime-web. i think the dataflows of the future realtimewebs (in the next 3 to 10 years) will increase quite a bit in size and speed of updates. and if i explain why i'd need the features we've discussed, you dismiss it by accepting a generalized that can be solved with more sql servers answer that is admitted to increase costs in every department, including energy consumption. on a non-linear scale btw. What I'm getting here is that you want everything without paying for it. When it comes to scalability it's cheaper to achieve it by adding servers than it is to squeeze every last drop of performance out of a single box. The cost in development time alone to implement effective threading strategies would far outstrip the cost of adding a couple of servers and ensuring that your app is scalable. i have this strong gut-feeling that adding more hardware when it's not needed leads to waste on a non-linear scale. in particular using sql servers to handle datastreams seems not wise to me. i'd like to use sql only for permanent storage. What you seem to be ignoring is the fact that these issues have been solved already, and the techniques that exist are more than adequate to build systems that scale as well as Facebook. What will it take to get you to accept that the way you want to skin the cat is exceedingly messy? yea, the current facebook and twitter. but i'm thinking 3 to 10 years ahead, and want threading and shared mem support in php to save on all my costs, energy consumption, and risks. i also think the wastefulness of letting the 'alternative' paradigm of 'more sql servers' is on a non-linear scale. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Top vs. Bottom Posting.
+1 for top-posting.. proper nettiquette is to put replies beneath the quotes you're replying to, and deleting the rest. ultimately this 'rule' of bottomposting is laziness of the ones who like that style of quoting. they want everyone to conform to their favorite method, so they can read more efficiently. however, given that this is a tips-list, i'd like this bottom posting rule removed from the mailinglist rules. it's been used yesterday as a way to attack me on a second front during a heated debate about the future evolution of php (threading+shared-mem).. up until yesterday, nobody complained about my top-posting, because the tips i give are apparently considered useful. And thats the point eh? The quality of the tips? Seriously, programmers who are not flexible enough to accept tips in a top _or_ bottom _or_ mixed format It sounds really silly to me. Pushing all other humans to use your habits is silly when you can code an addon for any email program that puts things in the right order. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 3:34 AM, Daevid Vincent dae...@daevid.com wrote: ...and where's the stupid little netiquette link about hijacking another thread? ;-) oh, here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DonDiego/Thread_hijacking http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#threading That bottom posting crap is so antiquated and outdated my dinosaur doesn't even follow it. Top posting is efficient and useful for everyone involved in the thread. If someone is not smart enough to realize they're reading the end of the thread, and have to scroll to the bottom of it one time to catch up, then to me that's natural selection and they just don't deserve to be participating. Go read a coloring book or watch WoW!Wow!Wubbzy! or something equally trite because clearly their brain can't grasp basic concepts even. _ From: Yousif Masoud [mailto:yousif.mas...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:27 PM To: Daevid Vincent Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading? P.S. I HATE bottom posting. WTF do I have to scroll all the way down past hundreds of useless lines just to read a me too or some other comment. If it's at the top, I can simply just keep moving from header to header in Outlook (or your email GUI of choice). DELETE as I go. Easy. Simple. Efficient. http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 08:11 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: right now my cms is 2D, and indeed most of the graphics are static then. but i have plans to lift it into 3D, with rooms interacting via avatars, and then the graphics-selection and avatar-behavior (animations) selections alone i suspect will put much extra stress on the servers. especially if i have to use sql servers to handle the datastreams. Have you had a look at Papervision? It's about the best thing for 3D on the web right now, and has even garnered some official Adobe support. yup. papervision, away3d, i've had a look at them. my current thinking is to build an abstraction layer for 3D in flashdevelop.org that interfaces with either papervision or away3d.. no telling which'll be the victor in the end of that race. but the real reason for me to invest in an extra abstraction layer is those unlimited detail guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4ttl=1) who are likely to change the entire 3D stack (from graphicscard up).
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
stop bashing the people who DO have a use for threading and other advanced concepts eh. just because you don't have a use for it, it shouldn't be included?! kinda arrogant. also kinda arrogant: how do you know the guy needing threading is not working on projects many times as complex as your own projects?? On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Use the right tool for the right job - PHP is a scripting/interpreted language, it does not need threading (IMO of course). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) I couldn't agree more. But here's a real life example. Your client has a forum and is using phpbb for their in house use. They also have an in house custom PHP app, integrated with phpbb, built to suit their needs. Now they want to implement some kind of CMS. You come in and implemented a PHP based CMS to integrate into their existing applications. Then you realize something troublesome, you have a performance issue where it could be resolved by implementing thread. What are you going to do? The standard, mature, experienced answer is - buy a bigger box. [snip] What do you think the client's response is when their need for the solution requires a short time frame of, if not immediate, implementation? There are no immediate solutions to immediate performance problems. If you have a poor design that restricts your throughput, you can 1) throw hardware at it or 2) change the design. At some point you'll hit yet another limit with 1), and you are forced back to 2). Somewhere along the line the original designer has presumably left or been made to. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.5°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
throw more hardware at it? how about you not butt into my business and how i save costs eh.. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: The company started small. As their business grows because they have products services that do not exist in the marketplace, their hardware are already growing along side with it, (load balancers, clusters). So then your solution is buy bigger/more boxes? What if the their server room is filled and already using recent hardware. Same answer - buy a bigger box (i.e. serverroom). I would certainly also start a redesign from the ground up, but to solve the immediate problem, get more hardware. Their current business needs doesn't need to move to a bigger building. What then? Hire data center's services? What if they want to protect their proprietary break through products and services? Rent space and maybe hardware. That's what most businesses do. What about unnecessary additional total cost of ownership (licenses, power consumption, etc...) for more/bigger boxes, even if they have available space, that could be avoided by just implementing threads? If you believe threading is such a silver bullet, I really think you need to reconsider. This business has already invested in more hardware to satisfy demand, so the application has some scalability - presumably achieved by running multiple processes. Threads have some advantages over processes, but when your design doesn't take that into account anyway, why do you need threads? [snip] In summary, you're saying that PHP can not grow/evolve with business right? Certainly not. PHP is just a language, like most other programming languages, it doesn't grow nor does it evolve a lot. (the OOP paradigm is an example of where PHP evolved). I'm saying that a back-of-a-fag-packet design won't grow nor evolve very well, and its inevitable shortcomings will not be solved by bolting on threading. If the company started small and want to use available open source solutions, then grow quickly because of their unique and quality products and services, and become enterprise level with-in a few years, what then? Slow down business growth just so that IT can migrate everything to another language? Of all the enterprise applications I've seen, they used threads. Tommy, that's not about the language, that's a design issue. Run PHP in multiple processes, and you've got the parallelism you seem to seek. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.8°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
and btw, complexity of design can go up considerably when you have to deal with more than 1 php and 1 mysql server, because the language forces inefficient constructs _and_ is stuck on 1 server On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: throw more hardware at it? how about you not butt into my business and how i save costs eh.. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: The company started small. As their business grows because they have products services that do not exist in the marketplace, their hardware are already growing along side with it, (load balancers, clusters). So then your solution is buy bigger/more boxes? What if the their server room is filled and already using recent hardware. Same answer - buy a bigger box (i.e. serverroom). I would certainly also start a redesign from the ground up, but to solve the immediate problem, get more hardware. Their current business needs doesn't need to move to a bigger building. What then? Hire data center's services? What if they want to protect their proprietary break through products and services? Rent space and maybe hardware. That's what most businesses do. What about unnecessary additional total cost of ownership (licenses, power consumption, etc...) for more/bigger boxes, even if they have available space, that could be avoided by just implementing threads? If you believe threading is such a silver bullet, I really think you need to reconsider. This business has already invested in more hardware to satisfy demand, so the application has some scalability - presumably achieved by running multiple processes. Threads have some advantages over processes, but when your design doesn't take that into account anyway, why do you need threads? [snip] In summary, you're saying that PHP can not grow/evolve with business right? Certainly not. PHP is just a language, like most other programming languages, it doesn't grow nor does it evolve a lot. (the OOP paradigm is an example of where PHP evolved). I'm saying that a back-of-a-fag-packet design won't grow nor evolve very well, and its inevitable shortcomings will not be solved by bolting on threading. If the company started small and want to use available open source solutions, then grow quickly because of their unique and quality products and services, and become enterprise level with-in a few years, what then? Slow down business growth just so that IT can migrate everything to another language? Of all the enterprise applications I've seen, they used threads. Tommy, that's not about the language, that's a design issue. Run PHP in multiple processes, and you've got the parallelism you seem to seek. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.8°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
jeez dude, you're assuming that all software problems are best solved by a sql solution. imo, they're NOT. example? any realtime system with real work to do. please stop pretending you know the proper design of all software that is made or yet has to be made. both a ya. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: and btw, complexity of design can go up considerably when you have to deal with more than 1 php and 1 mysql server, because the language forces inefficient constructs _and_ is stuck on 1 server Switch to a real database? MySQL still needs to grow up as well :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
yes you are bashing them (me included) imo you say threading support doesnt belong in php; with that you're determining what i may and may not do, even if i have given you good reasons for it, that you chose to ignore. i hope the php developers have more sense than you. i'm done discussing this with you. and i like top-posting. a lot. you may wanna stop trying to change the ways of others, especially if they don't interfere with what YOU may and may not do. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: stop bashing the people who DO have a use for threading and other advanced concepts eh. I'm not bashing anyone. just because you don't have a use for it, it shouldn't be included?! kinda arrogant. Feel free to think so - I never said I don't have a use for it (threading), I just said thread-support doesn't belong in PHP. also kinda arrogant: how do you know the guy needing threading is not working on projects many times as complex as your own projects?? I don't care what he is working on. It has absolutely no bearing on the conversation. Please stop top-posting, it's not good netiquette. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.4°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
popular : facebook youtube etc and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. i think it's not strange to ask a programming language support basic hardware architecture features as they evolve into mainstream. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: look per, i for one build systems designed to scale to popular levels. that means that whatever i can squeeze out of a single machine will save me money. quite a lot, coz as you know dedicated hosting gets very expensive when you have to buy fast machines. Well, at Hetzner in Nuernberg you can rent an EQ8 for EUR89/month. It comes with bandwidth, 1.5Tb software RAID, 24Gb RAM and a EUR149 setup cost. That's an Intel Core i7, so 2.6GHz quad core plus hyper-threading, meaning 4 to 8 concurrent processes. I've got four of the slightly smaller EQ4 running as backend mailservers handling up to about 3000 concurrent SMTP connections per box. Is that what you call a popular level? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.9°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
so your systems represent all the software problems out there in the world? or your experience does? hard to believe. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: jeez dude, you're assuming that all software problems are best solved by a sql solution. imo, they're NOT. example? any realtime system with real work to do. please stop pretending you know the proper design of all software that is made or yet has to be made. both a ya. I run real time systems for offices that count serving time in seconds. I know currently where the bottlenecks are, and adding 'threading' to PHP is not a solution. I fact adding much of the dross that has been added to PHP5 is ACTUALLY slowing down performance. I have PHP5.3 and PHP5.2 running on similarly loaded sites, and PHP5.2 is faster! I am just pointing out that on *MY* REAL applications, the SQL element is a major part of the processing time, and yes moving some of the table lookups to be hard coded arrays in PHP would make a difference, but then complicates configurability, so keeping them in the database makes life easier. The proper design is the one that meets the customers requirements and gets the bills paid. Processing the raw statistics required for my own sites is best done away from PHP, so using the right tools for the job is the important thing? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: By advocating that thread support does not belong in PHP, I am in no way determining what you (or anyone else) may or may not do. You are a free individual and free to choose the programming language and paradigm that is best suited to your purposes. right! that's saying you're free to leave behind the tool you've chosen for another one, because really, that tool should not start to support things that i dont happen to have a use for. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
funny how i've been topposting for over a year here and the complaints start when i tell some people not to butt into my business and choice of tools. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 10:07 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: and i like top-posting. a lot. Rene, please do stop posting. It is in the mailing list rules that you should bottom post. There is a reason for it. It helps with readability if everyone conforms to the same practice, and the mailing archives online are easier to digest also. i find 'm easier to digest with topposting. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
talk to me about this some other time. atm i'm having an argument with per and his kind about their very very annoying behaviour of determining my toolset for me. keeping a thread on topic is also ettiquette from the mailinglist rules eh? you might wanna consider just how much it pisses me off to have strangers determining my toolset and/or lifestyle for me. that's why i got rude. no other reason. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 10:28 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: funny how i've been topposting for over a year here and the complaints start when i tell some people not to butt into my business and choice of tools. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 10:07 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: and i like top-posting. a lot. Rene, please do stop posting. It is in the mailing list rules that you should bottom post. There is a reason for it. It helps with readability if everyone conforms to the same practice, and the mailing archives online are easier to digest also. i find 'm easier to digest with topposting. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk What you're actually saying is you find them easier to digest with both top AND bottom posting, because the majority of the list bottom posts as according to the rules, and you flaunt it deliberately for some reason. You're asking people on the list to not make assumptions about your applications and your 'need' for threading, and then blatantly ignore the rules on posting assuming that because you find a mix of top and bottom posting 'easier' to read, then so too will others. I'm not suddenly bringing this into focus now because you've asked people not to 'butt in' but because of the rude way you responded to Per Jessen about top-posting. I'm just asking that please, for the sake of clarity and readability, you bottom post to the list. If everyone does the same thing, it makes it a lot easier. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: popular : facebook youtube etc Rene, I must be missing something here. That sort of size implies millions in advertising revenue, so why are we discussing how much performance we can squeeze out of a single box? I mean, I'm all for efficient use of system resources, but if I have a semi-scalable application, it's a lot easier just getting another box than trying to change the implementation language. OTOH, if my design is not scalable, it's probably also easier to redo it than trying to change the implementation language. again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard economic times. any business person knows why. and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. I didn't think I was - you're the one who seem to be fixed on PHP as the only solution, and advocating that it be enhanced to suit your purposes. no, php is just my toolset of choice, and i think it should grow with the times and support threading and shared memory. maybe even a few cool features to enable use-as-a-cloud. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
exactly. the knock-on problems you mentioned are well solved and well documented. realtime programmers using threads have to get their heads around it on their first realtime project. i don't like doing my code in c(++), or worse; having to interface between c(++) and php. i chose php because my code can stay close to simple english that way. what you're suggesting is highly intrusive in my work-style, one that you're not affected by at all. in fact if you make things more difficult for me, i have less time to release opensource code of my own. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: When you do use AJAX, there is a slight difference in your app design then when you don't use AJAX. That's the way I see threads. A threaded design makes for a lot more than a slight difference IMHO. Once you've said threading, the next words in rapid succession are: mutexes, semaphores, locking, spin-locks, signals, race conditions, atomic updates, cache coherency, asynchronous IO etcetera. They are all perfectly well-known but complex concepts, and I would always choose C and/or assembler to work with those. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.5°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. Rene, it seems to me that you and I are advocating two opposite positions on the topic of threading in PHP, so aren't we both trying to determine the contents of each others toolset? Per: that's EXACTLY the point. You are determining it for me, i'm not for you. Simply because you dont have to use the language features you atm think you don't need in php. b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard economic times. any business person knows why. Given that the lifetime effort (=cost) of any software project is divided into 25% development and 75% maintenance, you really ought to focus on the latter. If you want more performance at a minimal cost, surely you should opt to write in a compiled language where you'll get far more bang for the buck. zend? facebook compiler? i'm staying with php coz the trend is towards jit compiling bro. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
php is not a hammer, its a programming language. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Dallas stut...@gmail.com wrote: Heh, you guys are funny! On 24 Mar 2010, at 08:58, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: popular : facebook youtube etc Rene, I must be missing something here. That sort of size implies millions in advertising revenue, so why are we discussing how much performance we can squeeze out of a single box? I mean, I'm all for efficient use of system resources, but if I have a semi-scalable application, it's a lot easier just getting another box than trying to change the implementation language. OTOH, if my design is not scalable, it's probably also easier to redo it than trying to change the implementation language. again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. And how exactly are you defining a toy language? If you want features like threading, why not switch to a language that already supports it? b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard economic times. any business person knows why. Yup, this is very good practice, but deciding that one particular tool is the only option is a fatal business decision. Use the right tool for the job! What you're trying to do here is akin to taking a hammer and whittling a screwdriver in to the handle. It's ridiculously inefficient, and imo, pretty stupid. and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. I didn't think I was - you're the one who seem to be fixed on PHP as the only solution, and advocating that it be enhanced to suit your purposes. no, php is just my toolset of choice, and i think it should grow with the times and support threading and shared memory. maybe even a few cool features to enable use-as-a-cloud. PHP is a hammer, and a bloody good one at that, but you seem to want it to be a tool shed. Accept that it's a hammer, go visit a DIY store, find the right tool for the job and get on with your life! The fact is that even if we all agree that PHP needs threading, and one or more people start working on putting it into the core, it will likely be many months before you see any sight of a working version, and even longer before you see a stable release. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
unless the actual php development team would like to weigh in on this matter of course. yes, i do consider it that important. these nay-sayers usually also lobby the dev-team to such extent that these features would actually not make it into php. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Dallas stut...@gmail.com wrote: Heh, you guys are funny! On 24 Mar 2010, at 08:58, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: popular : facebook youtube etc Rene, I must be missing something here. That sort of size implies millions in advertising revenue, so why are we discussing how much performance we can squeeze out of a single box? I mean, I'm all for efficient use of system resources, but if I have a semi-scalable application, it's a lot easier just getting another box than trying to change the implementation language. OTOH, if my design is not scalable, it's probably also easier to redo it than trying to change the implementation language. again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. And how exactly are you defining a toy language? If you want features like threading, why not switch to a language that already supports it? b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard economic times. any business person knows why. Yup, this is very good practice, but deciding that one particular tool is the only option is a fatal business decision. Use the right tool for the job! What you're trying to do here is akin to taking a hammer and whittling a screwdriver in to the handle. It's ridiculously inefficient, and imo, pretty stupid. and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. I didn't think I was - you're the one who seem to be fixed on PHP as the only solution, and advocating that it be enhanced to suit your purposes. no, php is just my toolset of choice, and i think it should grow with the times and support threading and shared memory. maybe even a few cool features to enable use-as-a-cloud. PHP is a hammer, and a bloody good one at that, but you seem to want it to be a tool shed. Accept that it's a hammer, go visit a DIY store, find the right tool for the job and get on with your life! The fact is that even if we all agree that PHP needs threading, and one or more people start working on putting it into the core, it will likely be many months before you see any sight of a working version, and even longer before you see a stable release. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
and if threading and shared memory aren't implemented, then hey, the php dev team can build something else in that these naysayers DO need eh... lol... On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: unless the actual php development team would like to weigh in on this matter of course. yes, i do consider it that important. these nay-sayers usually also lobby the dev-team to such extent that these features would actually not make it into php. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Dallas stut...@gmail.com wrote: Heh, you guys are funny! On 24 Mar 2010, at 08:58, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: popular : facebook youtube etc Rene, I must be missing something here. That sort of size implies millions in advertising revenue, so why are we discussing how much performance we can squeeze out of a single box? I mean, I'm all for efficient use of system resources, but if I have a semi-scalable application, it's a lot easier just getting another box than trying to change the implementation language. OTOH, if my design is not scalable, it's probably also easier to redo it than trying to change the implementation language. again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. And how exactly are you defining a toy language? If you want features like threading, why not switch to a language that already supports it? b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard economic times. any business person knows why. Yup, this is very good practice, but deciding that one particular tool is the only option is a fatal business decision. Use the right tool for the job! What you're trying to do here is akin to taking a hammer and whittling a screwdriver in to the handle. It's ridiculously inefficient, and imo, pretty stupid. and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. I didn't think I was - you're the one who seem to be fixed on PHP as the only solution, and advocating that it be enhanced to suit your purposes. no, php is just my toolset of choice, and i think it should grow with the times and support threading and shared memory. maybe even a few cool features to enable use-as-a-cloud. PHP is a hammer, and a bloody good one at that, but you seem to want it to be a tool shed. Accept that it's a hammer, go visit a DIY store, find the right tool for the job and get on with your life! The fact is that even if we all agree that PHP needs threading, and one or more people start working on putting it into the core, it will likely be many months before you see any sight of a working version, and even longer before you see a stable release. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
sad and pathetic? how about revealing. i can call your sad and pathetic for: - insisting on how others should do their work. - group-attacking your opposition, hoping to intimidate by outnumbering. - ignoring all valid explanations on why someone would like their fav tool to evolve with the market. - degrading into petty insults as a way to indicate i'm probably right about the claim that led you to petty insults. i can go on, but i just dont want another political battle on my hands. i'll find out what the php dev team thinks about this issue, and base my descision on whether or not to leave php behind, on that. but you people truly are worthy of some serious IRL larting for being such assholes who think they can determine the habits of others that don't affect them. i dont usually do this, have never done it to programmers; but you're lucky we're not in the same buiding. i'd get you to try and punch me, followed by a relatively nonviolent yet very public humiliation. THATS how strongly i feel about those who determine the lifestyle of others when it doesn't even affect them. Seriously, wars have erupted over this behaviour. The kind where axes and such are used to settle the issue. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 March 2010 10:38, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: and if threading and shared memory aren't implemented, then hey, the php dev team can build something else in that these naysayers DO need eh... lol... Do you have any idea how sad and pathetic you come across? I'm very sorry to say this, but really, now's the time to stop posting and step back, take a deep breath, then focus on something else. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: unless the actual php development team would like to weigh in on this matter of course. yes, i do consider it that important. these nay-sayers usually also lobby the dev-team to such extent that these features would actually not make it into php. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Stuart Dallas stut...@gmail.com wrote: Heh, you guys are funny! On 24 Mar 2010, at 08:58, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: popular : facebook youtube etc Rene, I must be missing something here. That sort of size implies millions in advertising revenue, so why are we discussing how much performance we can squeeze out of a single box? I mean, I'm all for efficient use of system resources, but if I have a semi-scalable application, it's a lot easier just getting another box than trying to change the implementation language. OTOH, if my design is not scalable, it's probably also easier to redo it than trying to change the implementation language. again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. And how exactly are you defining a toy language? If you want features like threading, why not switch to a language that already supports it? b) i will aim for all possible decreases in development time and operating costs during, not only in the grow phase but also in hard economic times. any business person knows why. Yup, this is very good practice, but deciding that one particular tool is the only option is a fatal business decision. Use the right tool for the job! What you're trying to do here is akin to taking a hammer and whittling a screwdriver in to the handle. It's ridiculously inefficient, and imo, pretty stupid. and you're still trying to impose a toolset on me. I didn't think I was - you're the one who seem to be fixed on PHP as the only solution, and advocating that it be enhanced to suit your purposes. no, php is just my toolset of choice, and i think it should grow with the times and support threading and shared memory. maybe even a few cool features to enable use-as-a-cloud. PHP is a hammer, and a bloody good one at that, but you seem to want it to be a tool shed. Accept that it's a hammer, go visit a DIY store, find the right tool for the job and get on with your life! The fact is that even if we all agree that PHP needs threading, and one or more people start working on putting it into the core, it will likely be many months before you see any sight of a working version, and even longer before you see a stable release. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Tommy Pham tommy...@gmail.com wrote: Funny you should mention all that. Let's say that you're longer with that company, either by direct employment or contract consultant. You've implemented C because you need 'thread'. Now your replacement comes in and has no clue about C even though your replacement is a PHP guru. How much headache is maintenance gonna be? Scalability? Portability? wow Thanks for posting this before i had to. +1, +1, +1... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
I subscribe to this list to share tips on software designs. Getting and keeping your respect i'm not even interested in. I'm interested in the quality of your tips on problems i post, as tips can lead faster to products, leads to money, leads to my personal freedom and options in life. Respect cannot be used to buy bread and butter. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 11:56 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: sad and pathetic? how about revealing. i can call your sad and pathetic for: - insisting on how others should do their work. - group-attacking your opposition, hoping to intimidate by outnumbering. - ignoring all valid explanations on why someone would like their fav tool to evolve with the market. - degrading into petty insults as a way to indicate i'm probably right about the claim that led you to petty insults. i can go on, but i just dont want another political battle on my hands. i'll find out what the php dev team thinks about this issue, and base my descision on whether or not to leave php behind, on that. but you people truly are worthy of some serious IRL larting for being such assholes who think they can determine the habits of others that don't affect them. i dont usually do this, have never done it to programmers; but you're lucky we're not in the same buiding. i'd get you to try and punch me, followed by a relatively nonviolent yet very public humiliation. THATS how strongly i feel about those who determine the lifestyle of others when it doesn't even affect them. Seriously, wars have erupted over this behaviour. The kind where axes and such are used to settle the issue. Sorry Rene, but this has just made me lose all respect for you. I shan't be too sad if you do jump ship. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Stuart Dallas stut...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 Mar 2010, at 09:36, Rene Veerman wrote: unless the actual php development team would like to weigh in on this matter of course. yes, i do consider it that important. these nay-sayers usually also lobby the dev-team to such extent that these features would actually not make it into php. Frankly I don't give a crap whether threading is supported in PHP, it does everything I need it to do. If I need threading I use a language that supports it, like Python or C++. good, so we'll put you down as a neutral... despite what follows; I love the way you call us nay-sayers like it's supposed to be an insult. I follow the KISS principle to the nth, and as such threading in PHP doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm yet to come across a problem I couldn't solve with pure PHP, but when the need arises I have no issue mixing in a little C++, Python, Ruby, or whatever, to meet my performance and scalability goals. I go to the mountain, I don't sit there complaining that the mountain ain't moving in my direction! your metaphor is funny but inaccurate. therefore invalid. My opinion, and that of most others who've weighed in, is that you're almost certainly looking at the problem from the wrong angle. What you haven't done is explicitly explain why you want threading to be supported. Give us a real example of why you think it should be supported and I guarantee we can come up with a way to get you what you want without requiring massive changes to the core of your chosen tool. And if we can't then you may actually convince us that threading would be a valuable feature to have available. no sorry i don't have to. all i'll say is: realtime systems with real work to do, are often better implemented with a non-sql solution that can use threading and shared memory support. period. it's so blatantly obvious that i don't feel like i have to spell out a complete example, which YOU can then say: ah, but there's different ways of doing that!. STOP TRYING TO DETERMINE MY HABITS AND CHOICE OF TOOLS. You mentioned Facebook as an example of a popular application. Are you aware that they only recently started using their compiler in production, and that prior to that they were happily running PHP to serve their front end without ever complaining that it didn't support threading? Even now, with hip-hop, individual requests are served in a single thread, so the language itself still doesn't support threading, and I don't hear them complaining that it's costing them a fortune. Why? Because it's not. And if it was they would have added it by now. yea, they didn't complain, they had the cash income to build the hip-hop compiler. i thank 'm for it. One final thing... if threading is this important to you, then I'm sure there are a number of developers who would happily add it in a fork of the core for suitable compensation. Once implemented it's possible the internals team would accept it for addition to the official version. If you really believe it has the potential to save you a butt-load of cash, the economics of paying for it should stack up. I dont feel i need to pay for a programming language keeping up with the times. Then i'll indeed find another language to use. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. And bravo on the metaphor appreciation failure. Love it! -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
yea right.. i really want to keep my code base in 1 language, because that simplifies everything later on imo. you people, who are against the evolotion of php towards cloud computing, would force me to do mixed-languages projects or even rewrite large sections of my codebase if as i want, i keep my codebase in 1 language. maybe now you understand why i'm so pissed off with you know-it-alls. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 March 2010 11:53, Tommy Pham tommy...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:44 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: What I find funny is that one of opponents of PHP threads earlier mentioned that how silly it would be to be using C in a web app. Now I hear people mentioning C when they need productivity or speed... I think I was the one to mention the latter, but as I started out saying, and as others have said too, it's about the right tool for the right job. When choosing a tool, there are a number of factors to consider - developer productivity, available skills, future maintenance, performance, scalability, portability, parallelism, performance etcetera. Funny you should mention all that. Let's say that you're longer with that company, either by direct employment or contract consultant. You've implemented C because you need 'thread'. Now your replacement comes in and has no clue about C even though your replacement is a PHP guru. How much headache is maintenance gonna be? Scalability? Portability? wow Who was the idi... who hired someone who wasn't suited for the job? Tommy, that's a moot argument. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.5°C) Suited for the job? You mean introduce more complexity to a problem that what could be avoided to begin with if PHP has thread support? hmmm Except, you already introduced complexity into the problem. You see, working with threads is another requirement, whether it be done in PHP or not. Hence, hiring the right guy is independent of whether you have threads in PHP or not - your problem is no less nor no more complex whether you do threading inside or outside PHP. You just assume that adding thread support to PHP will solve the problem, but there's no actual basis to believe this. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- hype WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 /hype -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Stuart Dallas I find it curious and amusing that you think the lack of threading support means PHP is somehow living in the dark ages. But yeah, complaining that the FREE tool you've CHOSEN to use doesn't support the feature YOU want... yeah, that's the way to go. a) i'm not the only 1 who wants that feature, or would appreciate it when it's made available. b) to me it's a matter of keeping php attuned with the market trends. this thread forces me to reconsider my choice of language, because i do code to maybe get as big as facebook one day. it really really helps to have my codebase in a simple language like php, and yet be able to build blackboxes in that language that do threading and use shared memory.. imo, it saves significant time (money) and headaches (risk) when growing from 1 server to thousands of servers. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
how about having a threaded php server query 10 mysql servers at the same time? 10 results in .1 seconds! and dont start with 'apache will handle that', there are cases where you're best off doing it in php, so you can gather/calculate relations from the data off 10 different servers. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Peter Lind peter.e.l...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 March 2010 12:04, Tommy Pham tommy...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:52 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Tommy Pham wrote: How exactly will threading in PHP help with the size of the database? That makes no sense to me, please help me understand how you think threading will help in this scenario. Looking at my example, not just the rows There are other features that require queries to a DB for simple request of a category by a shopper, instead of running those queries in series, running them in parallel would yield better response time. Database size issues are tackled with clustering, caching and DB optimisation. Threading in the language accessing the DB has no advantage here. Yes, it does. As mentioned several times, instead of running the queries in series, run them in parallel. If each of the queries takes about .05 to .15 seconds. How long would it take to run them in serial? How long do you it take to run them in parallel? Any you have a database that can actually handle that? If the database is taking 0.1 seconds per query, and you have 10 queries, then getting the data is going to take 1 second to generate. If you want some slow query to be started, and come back for the data later, then I thought we already had that? But again this is part of the database driver anyway. No need to add threading to PHP to get the database connection to pull data in the most efficient way. And one does not write the driver in PHP? We are using C there already? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Exactly my point. 10 queries taking .1 second each running in serial is 1 second total. How long would it take to run all those same queries simultaneously??? What's so difficult about the concept of serial vs parallel? Hmm, just wondering, but how long do you think it will take your high-traffic site to buckle under the load of the database queries you want to execute when now you want all of them to execute at the same time? Going with the 10 queries of .1 second each ... how far do you think you can scale that before you overload your database server? I'm just wondering here, I could be completely off the bat. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- hype WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 /hype -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
again; i have neither the expertise ready, nor the time nor the money atm, to implement it myself. i'm hoping the php-dev team will agree with me that scalability of php driven apps should be put on the agenda. threading and shared memory are only a part of that discussion.. i'm opening a new thread to discuss this wider issue. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Daniel Egeberg degeb...@php.net wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:27, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Stuart Dallas I find it curious and amusing that you think the lack of threading support means PHP is somehow living in the dark ages. But yeah, complaining that the FREE tool you've CHOSEN to use doesn't support the feature YOU want... yeah, that's the way to go. a) i'm not the only 1 who wants that feature, or would appreciate it when it's made available. b) to me it's a matter of keeping php attuned with the market trends. this thread forces me to reconsider my choice of language, because i do code to maybe get as big as facebook one day. it really really helps to have my codebase in a simple language like php, and yet be able to build blackboxes in that language that do threading and use shared memory.. imo, it saves significant time (money) and headaches (risk) when growing from 1 server to thousands of servers. If you believe you have the chance of becoming as big as Facebook and that you would save loads of money by having PHP support multi-threading, what's preventing you from hiring people to add that to PHP? You can complain all you want, but even with the most compelling reasons in the world it will not be done if there is not enough manpower to do it. I'm not even sure why you are complaining about this on the general list. Why don't you write an RFC and send it to internals for discussion? I'm sure someone would be happy to give you write access to the rfc namespace on the wiki if you sign up for an account there. Seeing as it's apparently so crucial to the operation of your business, I don't think it's unreasonable that you commit some resources to it. I don't think anyone is *against* that PHP supports multi-threading. I think people are against having multi-threading if it will stall other development in the PHP core. It's not like you can implement it just like that. There is just a limit on how much that can be done with the resources that are available. -- Daniel Egeberg -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] how to do cloud computing with php
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Yousif Masoud yousif.mas...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: Hi.. As a way to take a few steps back from the kinda heated when will php grow up and support threading thread, i'm requesting you people list how you scale from 1 server to many servers; what's called cloud computing. Interesting definition of cloud computing. There is a book called Building Scalable Web Sites by Cal Henderson. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wIWU94zKEtYCdq=Building+Scalable+Web+Sitesprintsec=frontcoversource=bnhl=enei=zg2qS7m1G9WO_AbL7_x1sa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=4ved=0CBcQ6AEwAw#v=onepageq=f=false I recommend you take a look at Chapter 9: Scaling Web Applications, particularly the following sections: The Scaling Myth (particularly the subsection What is Scalability?) Scaling PHP I quote As PHP has gained more acceptance as a serious language, there's still been a significant camp of people claiming that it can't scale. Clearly, this isn't the case. page 212. ok, i'm gonna take a look at that book then. It would be very helpful if you tell us what you've read, tried or considered? ok. i'm knowledgeable about coding for 1 to 2 machines; 1 php, 1 (my)sql. i can cache output/results at various levels for re-use. my main concern atm is my own cms (50-100k lines of my own); it's graphics-heavy, does fairly complicated db based logic, and if it ever is to be used for a site like facebook, it'll get large dataflows that have to be distributed over the servers used to generate html and accessoiries for end-users. i've built a layer into it that caches the output of oft-used pages (like articles and their comments). but adding many comments / minute to an article would result in quite a bit of overhead, to update the html for that page and distribute it (fast enough) to the relevant servers. i'm worried about php's single-threaded nature; each request has to fetch html updated in the last few seconds, or generate it from a list of comments. that's also a big query from a big table for every end-user.. :( i'd rather keep them comments for an article in shared memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Bitly-PHP - A PHP Bitly API to shorten URLs, expand and more.
nice code, but i'd like it better if the comments were in english ;) the only thing i see missing is some proper error reporting (in case bit.ly is down or has changed api specs) On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Igor Escobar titiolin...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Guys! Can you help me to test my new library? It's about a PHP Library to use and enjoy the RESTful Bitly API to shorten URLs, expand and more http://github.com/igorescobar/Bitly-PHP http://github.com/igorescobar/Bitly-PHPAny doubts, fell free to ask. http://github.com/igorescobar/Bitly-PHP Regards, Igor Escobar Systems Analyst Interface Designer + http://blog.igorescobar.com + http://www.igorescobar.com + @igorescobar (twitter) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: talk to me about this some other time. atm i'm having an argument with per and his kind about their very very annoying behaviour of determining my toolset for me. keeping a thread on topic is also ettiquette from the mailinglist rules eh? you might wanna consider just how much it pisses me off to have strangers determining my toolset and/or lifestyle for me. that's why i got rude. no other reason. Umm... you or your boss/client chose PHP. That means one of those two determined your toolset. Maybe next time you might want to pony up for a requirements analysis to determine if the toolset is right for the job. you've never heard of feature-creep, changing environments and requirements, etc? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. It's hard to discuss anything with someone who doesn't comprehend a metaphor. haha. comprehend. you mean accept. that metaphor is stretched to breaking point as far as i'm concerned. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. Personification of PHP doesn't make your argument any more salient. PHP isn't trying to stay ahead of anything. People are using it to solve problems, not to meet some phantom ideal of a computing trend threshold. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. Obviously we didn't open your eyes. Well excuse me for not dumping 50-100k lines of my own cms code instantly now that i realize that in order to scale it, i could really use features like threading and shared memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: again: a) you're determining the contents of my toolset, without it affecting you at all. the way you want it php will degrade into a toy language. Rene, it seems to me that you and I are advocating two opposite positions on the topic of threading in PHP, so aren't we both trying to determine the contents of each others toolset? Per: that's EXACTLY the point. You are determining it for me, i'm not for you. Simply because you dont have to use the language features you atm think you don't need in php. Actually, no. You are determine aspects of the toolset as it stands. To add threading is not a benign additon because we can choose to use it or not. If added it would affect the future irrevocably since undoubtedly we would need to maintain someone's code that contains threads because they didn't understand the shared nothing nature of PHP. yes you may encounter bad code. it happens now too. but most realtime programmers know not to use threads unless necessary. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: unless the actual php development team would like to weigh in on this matter of course. Wrong list. Subscribe to internals. yes, i do consider it that important. these nay-sayers usually also lobby the dev-team to such extent that these features would actually not make it into php. It's a debate. The dev team consider proposals and weigh in on the merits. I was a proponent for goto support during the development of PHP 5. We now have it. If you arguments are valid and there's no technical issue preventing it, and there's someone with time and skill to created the functionality, then it will happen. If not then it won't. I've seen many things added to PHP and I've watched and participated in the threads on internals that have lead to many new features. This is open source, opinions matter, but personal attacks and poor argument do not really make the cut. hahaha... you dismiss what i believe to be valid explanations without any counter-argument besides more sql hardware!, not just by me but by all advocates of threadingshared memory in php. for some reason, which is still not clear to me, you nay-sayers refuse to let a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE (not a hammer, not a fishing boat) evolve to stay useful, relevant even, in a changing market. and you're blatantly telling me to use a different kind of hammer, one that would force me to rewrite large sections of my existing code-base, and one that i have told you i would find for many other _valid_ reasons not optimal. basically, you're determining my choice of options without me ever having forced you to do something a certain way.. so you'll have to excuse my strong language. it's just letting you know that you shouldn't butt into other peoples business when it doesn't really affect you. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: talk to me about this some other time. atm i'm having an argument with per and his kind about their very very annoying behaviour of determining my toolset for me. keeping a thread on topic is also ettiquette from the mailinglist rules eh? you might wanna consider just how much it pisses me off to have strangers determining my toolset and/or lifestyle for me. that's why i got rude. no other reason. Umm... you or your boss/client chose PHP. That means one of those two determined your toolset. Maybe next time you might want to pony up for a requirements analysis to determine if the toolset is right for the job. you've never heard of feature-creep, changing environments and requirements, etc? Not usually, at the level of the language choice, is an about turn done after a requirements analysis has been completed. Feature creep is a management issue. it's a managment issue only because it's a fact of life. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. It's hard to discuss anything with someone who doesn't comprehend a metaphor. haha. comprehend. you mean accept. that metaphor is stretched to breaking point as far as i'm concerned. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. Personification of PHP doesn't make your argument any more salient. PHP isn't trying to stay ahead of anything. People are using it to solve problems, not to meet some phantom ideal of a computing trend threshold. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. Obviously we didn't open your eyes. Well excuse me for not dumping 50-100k lines of my own cms code instantly now that i realize that in order to scale it, i could really use features like threading and shared memory. Actually, you are th eone suggesting dumping your code since you said you were jumping ship. Many of us suggested that your problems can almost certainly be mitigated without threading. almost certainly. at least you're acknowledging that you might be wrong. take this example, sorry for the crosspost; my main concern atm is my own cms (50-100k lines of my own); it's graphics-heavy, does fairly complicated db based logic, and if it ever is to be used for a site like facebook, it'll get large dataflows that have to be distributed over the servers used to generate html and accessoiries for end-users. i've built a layer into it that caches the output of oft-used pages (like articles and their comments). but adding many comments / minute to an article would result in quite a bit of overhead, to update the html for that page and distribute it (fast enough) to the relevant servers. i'm worried about php's single-threaded nature; each request has to fetch html updated in the last few seconds, or generate it from a list of comments. that's also a big query from a big table for every end-user.. :( i'd rather keep them comments for an article in shared memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Jochem Maas joc...@iamjochem.com wrote: Someone who respects you will buy you a sandwich if you need it. i'd rather build products that are useful enough to be sold, than to wait for anti-starvation handouts gained from respect. But seemingly you're only interested in leveraging other peoples time and experience to further your own career, good luck with that around here. i've spent quite a bit of time on this list writing replies of my own to other people's software problems here. in fact i think i've spent more time on other's problems for free than i've received back in useful tips. and i'm not bitching about that. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: talk to me about this some other time. atm i'm having an argument with per and his kind about their very very annoying behaviour of determining my toolset for me. keeping a thread on topic is also ettiquette from the mailinglist rules eh? you might wanna consider just how much it pisses me off to have strangers determining my toolset and/or lifestyle for me. that's why i got rude. no other reason. Umm... you or your boss/client chose PHP. That means one of those two determined your toolset. Maybe next time you might want to pony up for a requirements analysis to determine if the toolset is right for the job. you've never heard of feature-creep, changing environments and requirements, etc? Not usually, at the level of the language choice, is an about turn done after a requirements analysis has been completed. Feature creep is a management issue. it's a managment issue only because it's a fact of life. A billable one. i prefer to reduce my headaches and bill size at the same time with up-to-date tools. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. It's hard to discuss anything with someone who doesn't comprehend a metaphor. haha. comprehend. you mean accept. that metaphor is stretched to breaking point as far as i'm concerned. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. Personification of PHP doesn't make your argument any more salient. PHP isn't trying to stay ahead of anything. People are using it to solve problems, not to meet some phantom ideal of a computing trend threshold. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. Obviously we didn't open your eyes. Well excuse me for not dumping 50-100k lines of my own cms code instantly now that i realize that in order to scale it, i could really use features like threading and shared memory. Actually, you are th eone suggesting dumping your code since you said you were jumping ship. Many of us suggested that your problems can almost certainly be mitigated without threading. almost certainly. at least you're acknowledging that you might be wrong. I'm certianly not right all the time. once I thought I was but I was wrong. take this example, sorry for the crosspost; my main concern atm is my own cms (50-100k lines of my own); it's graphics-heavy, does fairly complicated db based logic, and if it ever is to be used for a site like facebook, it'll get large dataflows that have to be distributed over the servers used to generate html and accessoiries for end-users. i've built a layer into it that caches the output of oft-used pages (like articles and their comments). but adding many comments / minute to an article would result in quite a bit of overhead, to update the html for that page and distribute it (fast enough) to the relevant servers. i'm worried about php's single-threaded nature; each request has to fetch html updated in the last few seconds, or generate it from a list of comments. that's also a big query from a big table for every end-user.. :( i'd rather keep them comments for an article in shared memory. I think you'll find when you get even close to the size of facebook, everything you think you know now about how it all stays running will be thrown out the window. But then, I'm not a fan of early optimization of this magnitude. A good design is usually flexible enough to allow redesign without recoding everything. Baby steps to the moon IMHO. yea, well, if i'm going to keep using php i need a path towards scalability, for this particular problem. i'd like to code the kinds of applications with big dataflows. call me a golddigger all you want, it's what i am ;) just not in the sexual sense hehe.. Your tools are up to date. Threading is in the future if at all... it's certainly not in the present. True, lets _keep_ 'm up-to-date, please. And you'd enable other uses of PHP besides helping this real-time-web-scalability problem. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:45 PM, la...@garfieldtech.com la...@garfieldtech.com wrote: On 3/24/10 2:33 PM, Rene Veerman wrote: It's a debate. The dev team consider proposals and weigh in on the merits. I was a proponent for goto support during the development of PHP 5. We now have it. If you arguments are valid and there's no technical issue preventing it, and there's someone with time and skill to created the functionality, then it will happen. If not then it won't. I've seen many things added to PHP and I've watched and participated in the threads on internals that have lead to many new features. This is open source, opinions matter, but personal attacks and poor argument do not really make the cut. hahaha... you dismiss what i believe to be valid explanations without any counter-argument besides more sql hardware!, not just by me but by all advocates of threadingshared memory in php. for some reason, which is still not clear to me, you nay-sayers refuse to let a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE (not a hammer, not a fishing boat) evolve to stay useful, relevant even, in a changing market. and you're blatantly telling me to use a different kind of hammer, one that would force me to rewrite large sections of my existing code-base, and one that i have told you i would find for many other _valid_ reasons not optimal. And what you seem to be missing is that making PHP userspace threaded is such a major change to the underlying code base and architecture that it would essentially be a total and complete rewrite, and would require people to rewrite large portions of their existing PHP userspace code. ehm, my newsscraper does threading via a fopen($threadURLonOwnServer) - fread(threads,2048)+check for feof($thread) + usleep(50ms) - if feof($thread) process($threadResults). so with a hack, you can let apache handle the threading, today. i suppose i could write something for shared memory in C++ but doing so would also be a hack that has to be installed on each server, rather than having it neatly as part of php. yet if i can code 'm as addons, it must not be hard to include it in the core. the paradigm shared nothing may still be the preferred default if you want, but fact is _current_ PHP can set_time_limit(0) and usleep(50ms) until it has something to do again. so i refute it would require a rewrite of php. both features i request for php6/7 can be put in as addons. So it's either you adjust your code to fit the paradigm that PHP is built for from the ground up, or the entire rest of the world adjusts its code to fit the paradigm that you think you want to have. that's just not the case imo. basically, you're determining my choice of options without me ever having forced you to do something a certain way.. so you'll have to excuse my strong language. it's just letting you know that you shouldn't butt into other peoples business when it doesn't really affect you. Except having to rewrite all of my code to be thread safe would affect me. If you didn't want to have a discussion, which by nature has differing view points, you shouldn't be on a discussion list. --Larry Garfield -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 21:50 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. It's hard to discuss anything with someone who doesn't comprehend a metaphor. haha. comprehend. you mean accept. that metaphor is stretched to breaking point as far as i'm concerned. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. Personification of PHP doesn't make your argument any more salient. PHP isn't trying to stay ahead of anything. People are using it to solve problems, not to meet some phantom ideal of a computing trend threshold. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. Obviously we didn't open your eyes. Well excuse me for not dumping 50-100k lines of my own cms code instantly now that i realize that in order to scale it, i could really use features like threading and shared memory. Actually, you are th eone suggesting dumping your code since you said you were jumping ship. Many of us suggested that your problems can almost certainly be mitigated without threading. almost certainly. at least you're acknowledging that you might be wrong. I'm certianly not right all the time. once I thought I was but I was wrong. take this example, sorry for the crosspost; my main concern atm is my own cms (50-100k lines of my own); it's graphics-heavy, does fairly complicated db based logic, and if it ever is to be used for a site like facebook, it'll get large dataflows that have to be distributed over the servers used to generate html and accessoiries for end-users. i've built a layer into it that caches the output of oft-used pages (like articles and their comments). but adding many comments / minute to an article would result in quite a bit of overhead, to update the html for that page and distribute it (fast enough) to the relevant servers. i'm worried about php's single-threaded nature; each request has to fetch html updated in the last few seconds, or generate it from a list of comments. that's also a big query from a big table for every end-user.. :( i'd rather keep them comments for an article in shared memory. I think you'll find when you get even close to the size of facebook, everything you think you know now about how it all stays running will be thrown out the window. But then, I'm not a fan of early optimization of this magnitude. A good design is usually flexible enough to allow redesign without recoding everything. Baby steps to the moon IMHO. yea, well, if i'm going to keep using php i need a path towards scalability, for this particular problem. i'd like to code the kinds of applications with big dataflows. call me a golddigger all you want, it's what i am ;) just not in the sexual sense hehe.. Your tools are up to date. Threading is in the future if at all... it's certainly not in the present. True, lets _keep_ 'm up-to-date, please. And you'd enable other uses of PHP besides helping this real-time-web-scalability problem. Why don't you set up a vote to see how many developers actually *want* threading. That would be a good indication of whether or not it is actually worth the PHP development team spending a lot of time on it at the loss of other features which people want more. we'd probably lose that vote because so many of you other php programmers refuse to see that we do have good uses for it, and you don't. yet. but ultimately it's a matter of the php dev's team time and effort, so when this thread has run it's course i may go to the internals list and raise it -diplomatically- there.
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: So you're basically saying that you'd discount anyone who opposes you purely because you think you know best? Nice attitude. I ain't saying that at all, nor did i intend to imply it. In fact it's the anti-threading/shared-mem camp that thinks they know everything best with their instistance that throw more hardware at it, more sql servers, more programming languages in a single project will solve all software design / growth problems with enough efficiency. In this case, you still haven't given me any other reason to oppose the evolution of php with the market trend, other than that it would cost php-dev team time that can be spent on other things. you (that camp) haven't even told me what features you want 'm to spend time on instead.
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Rene Veerman wrote: php is not a hammer, its a programming language. It's hard to discuss anything with someone who doesn't comprehend a metaphor. haha. comprehend. you mean accept. that metaphor is stretched to breaking point as far as i'm concerned. one that i feel needs to stay ahead of the computing trend if it is to be considered a language for large scale applications. Personification of PHP doesn't make your argument any more salient. PHP isn't trying to stay ahead of anything. People are using it to solve problems, not to meet some phantom ideal of a computing trend threshold. but you nay-sayers here have convinced me; i'll be shopping for another language with which to serve my applications and the weboutput they produce.. thanks for opening my eyes and telling to abandon ship in time. Obviously we didn't open your eyes. Well excuse me for not dumping 50-100k lines of my own cms code instantly now that i realize that in order to scale it, i could really use features like threading and shared memory. Actually, you are th eone suggesting dumping your code since you said you were jumping ship. Many of us suggested that your problems can almost certainly be mitigated without threading. almost certainly. at least you're acknowledging that you might be wrong. I'm certianly not right all the time. once I thought I was but I was wrong. take this example, sorry for the crosspost; my main concern atm is my own cms (50-100k lines of my own); it's graphics-heavy, does fairly complicated db based logic, and if it ever is to be used for a site like facebook, it'll get large dataflows that have to be distributed over the servers used to generate html and accessoiries for end-users. i've built a layer into it that caches the output of oft-used pages (like articles and their comments). but adding many comments / minute to an article would result in quite a bit of overhead, to update the html for that page and distribute it (fast enough) to the relevant servers. i'm worried about php's single-threaded nature; each request has to fetch html updated in the last few seconds, or generate it from a list of comments. that's also a big query from a big table for every end-user.. :( i'd rather keep them comments for an article in shared memory. I think you'll find when you get even close to the size of facebook, everything you think you know now about how it all stays running will be thrown out the window. But then, I'm not a fan of early optimization of this magnitude. A good design is usually flexible enough to allow redesign without recoding everything. Baby steps to the moon IMHO. yea, well, if i'm going to keep using php i need a path towards scalability, for this particular problem. i'd like to code the kinds of applications with big dataflows. call me a golddigger all you want, it's what i am ;) just not in the sexual sense hehe.. Your tools are up to date. Threading is in the future if at all... it's certainly not in the present. True, lets _keep_ 'm up-to-date, please. It is up to date. You mean make it have all the features you want. PHP is by it's very existence and ongoing development up to date. yet you seem to oppose said development into the threading/shared-mem corner. without giving an alternative way to implement my previous case description (facebook/twitter level commenting to graphics-heavy pages at busy times). and that's just 1 case description. hundreds if not thousands more can be thought up or simply the best solution in the near future. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 22:15 +0200, Rene Veerman wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: So you're basically saying that you'd discount anyone who opposes you purely because you think you know best? Nice attitude. I ain't saying that at all, nor did i intend to imply it. In fact it's the anti-threading/shared-mem camp that thinks they know everything best with their instistance that throw more hardware at it, more sql servers, more programming languages in a single project will solve all software design / growth problems with enough efficiency. They're offering the alternative. You keep disagreeing with their viewpoint because you seem to think you know best on this matter and won't even concede on a point. they're offering an alternative that would not solve the use-case i could think of within 1 day.. and they also say 'add more hardware' which means more overhead of every kind, resulting in wasteful business practices. In this case, you still haven't given me any other reason to oppose the evolution of php with the market trend Do you have any proof of this 'market trend'? I suggested a vote, but you 'nay-sayed' it on the basis that you'd lose to people who couldn't possibly know as much as you do. yes, twitter. facebook. the fact that a graphics upgrade would likely increase business for the first ones on that popularity level to implement it. that's the proof i have for the market trend. oh, and the fact cloud computing is becoming more and more of a buzzword in the industry. I wouldn't say I belonged to any particular camp at the start of this thread, but now, having read what my betters have said, I'm inclined to agree that threading isn't the magic wand that you seem to think it is. I personally see one of the largest sites in the world running on PHP without needing threading and without insulting half the list to attempt to get it. you haven't offered me any description at all of how i'd solve the large-scale realtime-web-app with existing techniques. and if i explain why i'd need the features we've discussed, you dismiss it by accepting a generalized that can be solved with more sql servers answer that is admitted to increase costs in every department, including energy consumption. on a non-linear scale btw.
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote: Are you suggesting that you need to be a guru in C to write threaded C code? I think the word you're looking for is competent. plz dont make me repeat myself, i've already indicated my reasons as to why i want to keep my codebase in 1 language, and why i would like to keep my large existing code base in php, and have php evolve with the times, and allow applications written in it to grow easily to large scale use. it would expand the user base of php as well i think. Are you suggesting cross platform thread libraries don't exist? I wonder how Apache does it... or MySQL... or any number of open source cross-platform systems. If they implement their own, then by the virtue of the source being open, you can feel free to incorporate. adding all these things as custom extensions that are hard to maintain and increase software complexity, is not what i want. the reason i chose php is for it's simplicity of use. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Sancar Saran sancar.sa...@evodot.com wrote: On Wednesday 24 March 2010 21:42:53 Tommy Pham wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Sancar Saran sancar.sa...@evodot.com wrote: On Wednesday 24 March 2010 03:17:56 Tommy Pham wrote: Let's go back to my 1st e-commerce example. The manufacturers list is about 3,700. The categories is about about 2,400. The products list is right now at 500,000 and expected to be around 750,000. The site is only in English. The store owner wants to expand and be I18n: Chinese, French, German, Korean, Spanish. You see how big and complex that database gets? The store owners want to have this happens when a customer clicks on a category: * show all subcategories for that category, if any * show all products for that category, if any, * show all manufacturers, used as filtering, for that category and subcategories * show price range filter for that category * show features specifications filter for that category * show 10 top sellers for that category and related subcategories * the shopper can then select/deselect any of those filters and ability to sort by manufacturers, prices, user rating, popularity (purchased quantity) * have the ability to switch to another language translation on the fly * from the moment the shopper click on a link, the response time (when web browser saids Done in the status bar) is 5 seconds or less. Preferably 2-3 seconds. Will be using stopwatch for the timer. Now show me a website that meets those requirements and uses PHP, I'll be glad to support your argument about PHP w/o threads :) BTW, this is not even enterprise requirement. I may have another possible project where # products is over 10 million easily. With similar requirements when the user click on category. Do you think this site, which currently isn't, can run on PHP? Regards, Tommy If you design and code correctly. Yes. If you want to use someting alredy. Try TYPO3. PS: Your arguments are something about implementation not something about platform abilities. You can do this things any server side programming with enough hardware. Regards Sancar Platform abilities = PHP with/without threads. Implementation = If PHP has threads, how do I implement it. If not, what work around / hacks do I need to do. Please forgive my low ability on English and you sound like. I can drive a car, if it has a diesel engine and we want Ferrari for our need. Is there any way to fit a diesel engine in Ferrari ? Your problem isn't php, You problem is your way to think... You are trying to bend php to fit your way of the building web sites. I'm sorry, things does not work like that. You are trying to represent your business logic as ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE STANDARTS. I'm sorry, it wont ! Even with provocative subject, it still business logic at large. On Large Web sites, Site has own standards which enterprise must have to obey.. (like Facebook or any other uber number cruncher you name it) Anyway... You want to build a damn huge web site with damn huge data set and damn huge requests per second. and you still want to use that SQL for primary data store for reading. ARE YOU NUTS ??? With this kind of approach, You will be in deep trouble with any language, with any Reational SQL Server. If your customers need that kind of thing. You need lots of sophisticated people which know how to handle big things under web enviroment. Good luck to you. Regards how dramatic. how elitist. and btw, use of sql where other solutions (like shared mem and threading!) is exactly what i'm against. if you ppl just stop barracading, you'll see that with relatively minimal effort php can evolve with the times and make such things possible for us mere mortals. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
Rene: and btw, use of sql where other solutions (like shared mem and threading!) is exactly what i'm against. should read where other solutions (...) are very likely to work better / more efficiently.. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Sancar Saran sancar.sa...@evodot.com wrote: On Wednesday 24 March 2010 21:42:53 Tommy Pham wrote: On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Sancar Saran sancar.sa...@evodot.com wrote: On Wednesday 24 March 2010 03:17:56 Tommy Pham wrote: Let's go back to my 1st e-commerce example. The manufacturers list is about 3,700. The categories is about about 2,400. The products list is right now at 500,000 and expected to be around 750,000. The site is only in English. The store owner wants to expand and be I18n: Chinese, French, German, Korean, Spanish. You see how big and complex that database gets? The store owners want to have this happens when a customer clicks on a category: * show all subcategories for that category, if any * show all products for that category, if any, * show all manufacturers, used as filtering, for that category and subcategories * show price range filter for that category * show features specifications filter for that category * show 10 top sellers for that category and related subcategories * the shopper can then select/deselect any of those filters and ability to sort by manufacturers, prices, user rating, popularity (purchased quantity) * have the ability to switch to another language translation on the fly * from the moment the shopper click on a link, the response time (when web browser saids Done in the status bar) is 5 seconds or less. Preferably 2-3 seconds. Will be using stopwatch for the timer. Now show me a website that meets those requirements and uses PHP, I'll be glad to support your argument about PHP w/o threads :) BTW, this is not even enterprise requirement. I may have another possible project where # products is over 10 million easily. With similar requirements when the user click on category. Do you think this site, which currently isn't, can run on PHP? Regards, Tommy If you design and code correctly. Yes. If you want to use someting alredy. Try TYPO3. PS: Your arguments are something about implementation not something about platform abilities. You can do this things any server side programming with enough hardware. Regards Sancar Platform abilities = PHP with/without threads. Implementation = If PHP has threads, how do I implement it. If not, what work around / hacks do I need to do. Please forgive my low ability on English and you sound like. I can drive a car, if it has a diesel engine and we want Ferrari for our need. Is there any way to fit a diesel engine in Ferrari ? Your problem isn't php, You problem is your way to think... You are trying to bend php to fit your way of the building web sites. I'm sorry, things does not work like that. You are trying to represent your business logic as ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE STANDARTS. I'm sorry, it wont ! Even with provocative subject, it still business logic at large. On Large Web sites, Site has own standards which enterprise must have to obey.. (like Facebook or any other uber number cruncher you name it) Anyway... You want to build a damn huge web site with damn huge data set and damn huge requests per second. and you still want to use that SQL for primary data store for reading. ARE YOU NUTS ??? With this kind of approach, You will be in deep trouble with any language, with any Reational SQL Server. If your customers need that kind of thing. You need lots of sophisticated people which know how to handle big things under web enviroment. Good luck to you. Regards how dramatic. how elitist. and btw, use of sql where other solutions (like shared mem and threading!) is exactly what i'm against. if you ppl just stop barracading, you'll see that with relatively minimal effort php can evolve with the times and make such things possible for us mere mortals. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 6:13 AM, Hans Åhlin ahlin.h...@kronan-net.com wrote: I admit that if there were native support for threading I would use it. But I don´t want the support for threading if it slowdown the performance. hmm i bet you can use any feature of php to slow things down.. i think what's been proven by the pro-camp by now is that at least some application designs would benefit from threading and shared memory. imo there's no way to tell up front if threading will be detrimental or benefitial to all projects built with php. itsa case-by-case thing... aint it? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
ExecSum:
* +1 for better threading features in PHP.
* overloading = inheritance?
* listreaders plz allow ppl to vent some frustration without
starting a flamewar.
Threading can be implemented in PHP with an
fopen('http://yourserver.com/url')-fread()_all_threads+usleep(50ms)-fclose()+process
loop.
My own newsscraper threads well like this.
The central script figures out what sites to scrape, and the treaded
subsystem makes sure 1 page per site per N seconds is retrieved.
But i've yet to find a way to keep global objects in memory between
http requests, outside $_SESSION, which i believe is just stored to-
and loaded from disk between http requests.
However, now that i think of it, you could have large pieces of
software stay in memory in a single php script that runs forever and
reads commands (as arrays) out of files (on memory disk?) (put there
by thread-scripts) and [the forever running script] outputs to
stdout, which is caught by the thread-scripts, then passed back to the
thread-caller via fread().
I usually use json for such constructs.
But it's a total hack of course, and i have no idea about performance
issues or even timing bugs. it's theoretically possible..
there is NO reason NOT to let
the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they want to set in a
function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially when there are
many parameters and you can't overload functions like you can in Java
well you could shove all the params in an array, then shove that to
the function called, _or_ a preparatory function that calls the old
function.
as for overloading functions, i think with a bit of cleverness you can
come up with a class / set of functions that simulate overloading of
functions and even inheritance. i for a fact simulate polymorphism
with $functionName_fromPluginX ($params).
i smell all the ingredients that would allow you to overload functions
in php aswell. you'd just have to call things a bit differently,
perhaps like
$var = $overloadingManager-call ('functionName',
'context(object-instance-id)', $param1, $param2).
Better yet; aren't OOP's (and php5's) inheritance features (for
classes) similar to functions overloading? k, it forces you to group
such functions into an object, and derivations into subobjects, but
that's not a show-stopper at all.. You can always ignore the object
boundary and have 1 object-tree for all functions that require
overloading.
lastly, about the politics of this mail-thread;
imo, it's the ones who open the counterattack who start the
flamewar, out of something that is clearly in this case just venting
some frustration with at least partially valid reasons..
imo, it would be wiser to have offered the guy some actual tips and/or
a casual hey, you could've phrased it friendlier, given the fact that
php costs nothing and all, dude, rather than grabbing the
flamethrower and setting it to vaporize.
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Daevid Vincent dae...@daevid.com wrote:
I've been using PHP for a decade or so (since PHP/FI) and love it. The one
problem that seems to always keep coming back on enterprise level projects
is the lack of threading. This always means we have to write some back-end
code in Ruby or Java or C/C++ and some hacky database layer or DBUS or
something to communicate with PHP.
Will PHP ever have proper threading? It would sure let the language take
the next logical leap to writing applications and daemons. I love the idea
that Rails/Ruby have where you can just load objects in memory once and
keep using them from page to page (this is NOT the same as a $_SESSION,
it's way more flexible and powerful).
But more importantly, in one application I'm working on, we need to connect
to an Asterisk system for the IVR abilities. This means we have Ruby doing
all that fun stuff and PHP doing the web stuff, but we're also duplicating
a LOT of work. Both Ruby AND PHP now have to have ORMs for the user who's
calling in, advertisements served, products shown, etc. We could have used
Rails for the web portion, but I want to stay with PHP and I'm sure I don't
have to explain to you PHPers why that is. Without threads, PHP just isn't
even an option or only one user would be able to call in at a time.
The pcntl stuff is not feasible. It's a hack at best. Spawning multiple
scripts is also a recipie for disaster.
When will the PHP core-devs (Zend?) realize that PHP is much more than a
hook to a database. It's much more than web pages.
Is this a case of it's too hard? Or is it a case of PHP core developers
just being douche-bags like they are about the whole
foo($set_this_parameter=$bar); bull$hit??! (there is NO reason NOT to let
the developer choose WHICH of the list of parameters they want to set in a
function/method call aside from being stubborn! Especially when there are
many parameters and you can't overload functions like you can in Java or
other typed languages)
As usual, I created a poll here
Re: [PHP] Will PHP ever grow up and have threading?
hmm i use scripted languages because i prefer and they allow/force simple-to-read-code. but that does not mean a scripted language can't evolve to expose complicated code constructs like multi-threading and daemon-building in a simple manner too. i'd prefer it if a language like PHP can be used for other things besides webserving too. i also think at least some web-apps could benefit from multi-threading and daemon-building.. particularly web-apps that deal with real-time dataflows. and btw, the distinction between compiled and scripted is not a hard one anymore eh.. not with zend and that facebook php-compiler out there. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Daevid Vincent wrote: I've been using PHP for a decade or so (since PHP/FI) and love it. The one problem that seems to always keep coming back on enterprise level projects is the lack of threading. This always means we have to write some back-end code in Ruby or Java or C/C++ and some hacky database layer or DBUS or something to communicate with PHP. Use the right tool for the right job - PHP is a scripting/interpreted language, it does not need threading (IMO of course). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] i'm curious about unit testing
Hi.. in an effort to write better code i'd like to know good strategies for unit testing. automated testing of code. the fact that my code can undergo rapid changes has kept me back so far. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Pulling my hair out over an include_once();
is this file you need on your local server or truely on another machine? and if it's on another machine, why do you need to include() it from there? why not make a local copy as was suggested earlier? there are many reasons not to include php scripts off other servers, esp if the servers involved are not in the same building. On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Watson Blair bestudios...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, i'm sure i'm missing something glaringly obvious, but i have yet to find a solution to this online... so heres the line of code that i'm getting hung up on: ?php include_once(http://www.jennysjunket.com/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc;);? which gives me this: *Warning*: include() [function.include]: URL file-access is disabled in the server configuration in */home/content/81/5634781/html/ebay.php* on line*1* *Warning*: include(http://www.jennysjunket.com/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc) [ function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found in */home/content/81/5634781/html/ebay.php* on line *1* *Warning*: include() [function.include]: Failed opening ' http://www.jennysjunket.com/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/php5/lib/php') in * /home/content/81/5634781/html/ebay.php* on line *1* * * ive got all of my permissions set as open as i can, but i'm still baffled about it. Thanks, Watson -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Pulling my hair out over an include_once();
cool.
tip: if you're gonna use libs like magpie, in 1 or more projects on a
webserver, i'd put it in htdocs/lib/magpie-x.y.z,
(x.y.z=versionnumber), then require_once('/lib/magpie-x.y.z/[magpie
top include script.inc]') it at the top of
htdocs/projectName/index.php or if it's only to be used in a specific
function of the website, at the top of where-ever the code
handles(starts) that function.
an alternative is htdocs/projectName/lib/magpie-x.y.z
it's not necessary to do it this way, but it does provide faster
management of libs and a decrease in bug-count.
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:28 AM, bestudios...@gmail.com wrote:
Duly noted. Thanks for baring with me on this one guys!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-Original Message-
From: Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:26:24
To: Watson Blairbestudios...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Pulling my hair out over an include_once();
if you're going to use php software, put it on the server it must run
on, and require_once() it with an absolute or relative path, not a
URL. That's a golden rule for security, stability and performance
reasons.
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:20 AM, Watson Blair bestudios...@gmail.com wrote:
ya, sorry i diden't specify, i'm trying to build a simple RSS (haha, fat
chance it being simple, right?) reader for a site to import an ebay RSS feed
and desplay the contense. I'm using Magpie to accomplish it. also, you'll be
glad to know that your fix worked like a charm, all i need to do now is
limit the number of results and orginize all of the data returned (images
and such). my only curiousity about this now is what is up with that file
path why woulden't using the URL work?
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Adam Richardson simples...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Stan Vassilev sv_for...@fmethod.comwrote:
Hi,
As the error says, this is a problem with the server configuration.
In your php.ini file, allow_url_include should be enabled.
As an alternative, if you have allow_url_include off, but allow_url_fopen
on, you can file_get_contents() that URL and eval() it.
Keep in mind you need *absolute* trust that the URL won't serve malicious
PHP code, or change and break your site. If you need to run this code, it's
a lot better to save the file from your browser and store it with your
site,
then include it locally. It'll be also faster this way.
Regards,
Stan Vassilev
ah, i forgot to properly phrase my question... what am i doing wrong, and
how do i make it work? slash, could you guys/girls point me towards a
tutorial that will give me a hand?
Thanks again,
Watson
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Watson Blair bestudios...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey all, i'm sure i'm missing something glaringly obvious, but i have
yet
to find a solution to this online... so heres the line of code that i'm
getting hung up on:
?php include_once(http://www.jennysjunket.com/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc
);?
which gives me this:
*Warning*: include() [function.include]: URL file-access is disabled in
the server configuration in */home/content/81/5634781/html/ebay.php* on
line*1*
*Warning*: include(http://www.jennysjunket.com/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc)
[
function.include]: failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be
found in */home/content/81/5634781/html/ebay.php* on line *1*
*Warning*: include() [function.include]: Failed opening '
http://www.jennysjunket.com/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc' for inclusion
(include_path='.:/usr/local/php5/lib/php') in *
/home/content/81/5634781/html/ebay.php* on line *1*
*
*
ive got all of my permissions set as open as i can, but i'm
still baffled about it.
Thanks,
Watson
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Actually, after looking at the link you mentioned, I see it's PHP (I'm
sorry, I didn't check the link before), and I'm wondering if you were just
trying to include a file that's already on your server. Grabbing a PHP file
from a remote source for parsing is a bad idea in terms of security, so
hopefully that's not what you're doing.
If the file is on your server, then the path would be something like below
judging by your error message:
?php
include_once(/home/content/81/5634781/html/magpierss/rss_fetch.inc); ?
Adam
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Re: [PHP] blog design issue...
i'd go with tags over categories, because you can add multiple tags to a single blog post. table posts: postID integer ... table post_tags: postID integer tagID integer tagPercentageApplies float /* optional, not the industry standard */ table tags: tagID integer tagName varchar On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Jason Pruim li...@pruimphotography.com wrote: I know you are all probably thinking What does this have to do with PHP? and in reality... It's probably stretching it a little bit... BUT I am in the process of writing a blog software (Yes I'm aware of all the open source, and paid stuff out there... I'm doing this to learn :)) I am looking at adding categories to my blog posts so I can organize my drivel into something that looks somewhat professional, or at the very least, organized so you can filter out all the crap... What I'm wondering about though, is would it be better from a database design stand point to do a database field for categories and then in there put Personal, Business, Crap I found funny Basically 1 database field for all the categories I decide to use. OR should I go the other route and do 1 database field for each category? This is going to be a small blog to start, but I guess I should always be looking at performance, security, maintainability right? I did read the post that tedd put up about looking at storing variables differently and am considering going that route... But just wanted to know what you all think :) Oh I'm also not expecting to have more then 4 or 5 categories at the most Unless I release the blog to the public and take wordpress down :P So any help would be greatly appreciated :) Thanks yall! Jason Pruim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] web sniffer
field? On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 9:46 AM, madunix madu...@gmail.com wrote: can any one give a complete sample script how to retrieve data content from web (jpg, pdf, field). -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] need a free sql table layout diagram app for linux, not phpmyadmin coz it has a bug with 7 tables opened in its designer.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/541922 phpmyadmin is on strike :( can anyone recommend a good alternative? auto-scaling print function preferred. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] any reason *not* to use PEAR DB module when accessing mysql?
another option: adodb.sf.net. and yep, i'm fully for using a db abstraction layer. On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Robert P. J. Day rpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: (just a warning -- as a relative newbie to PHP, i'll probably have the occasional dumb question. just humour me.) i'm looking at some existing PHP code that accesses a mysql 5.0 db, and it's coded using the mysql-specific calls: mysql_connect, mysql_select_db, etc, etc. is there any reason i *wouldn't* want to rewrite that code using the more general PEAR DB module, and use mysqli? certainly, as i read it, using the PEAR DB module would make it easier down the road if i suddenly decide to change the DB backend. anyway, any compelling arguments for or against? rday -- Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] need a free sql table layout diagram app for linux, not phpmyadmin coz it has a bug with 7 tables opened in its designer.
thanks. On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 15:25 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/541922 phpmyadmin is on strike :( can anyone recommend a good alternative? auto-scaling print function preferred. I needed software to do this a while ago, and the majority of the responses on the list were to use MySQL Workbench. The thread was called 'Linux ERD Software' if you want to have a look at some of the other suggestions. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] different php.ini for virtual host on apache2 with mod_php5
i dunno about overriding the entire php function, but you can disable mail() in the virtualhost section of your apache config with the following line: php_value disabled_functions mail On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Stanislaw V. Smetanin r...@stanislaw.su wrote: Hi there. the problem: I want to disable mail() function in the one of virtual hosts' that use PHP(I use mod_php for apache2), and regarding to the http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.disable-functions I can't use directives like php_value, etc, because value of disable_functions can be set only in php.ini, but I don't want to disable mail() on the all of my virtual hosts, just on one. the question: Can I use different php.ini for virtual hosts, in my case I want to use php.ini for one host, where disable_functions = mail will be. Here backgrounds: stanis...@smetanin:~$ uname -rv 2.6.31-19-generic #56-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 01:26:53 UTC 2010 stanis...@smetanin:~$ dpkg -l libapache2-mod-php5 | tail -n1 ii libapache2-mod-php5 5.2.10.dfsg.1-2ubuntu6.4 server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (Apache 2 module) stanis...@smetanin:~$ apache2 -v Server version: Apache/2.2.12 (Ubuntu) Thanks to the community for any help. -- Stanislaw Smetanin. http://stanislaw.su/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] natural language processing (nlp) (was: natural text / human text analysis)
I've browsed wikipedia, sf.net and google for code papers on what is commonly known as NLP. I haven't found thesaurus software for native php/mysql, wordnet which is apparently the leader, provides os-native apps, and db files without db structure and not in any sql format (looks like cvs without the commas but i'm not sure yet). When i asked princeton staff about sql releases they simply replied we dont do sql here. Which i find a bit strange.. Easiest thing for me to do is write a conversion script that puts their db files in mysql, and work from there. My search on sf.net turned up empty too, all of the projects with relevant descriptions have just the name regged, no code releases. From reading http://www.go4expert.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35, Introduction to Natural Language Processing(NLP), i gather that NLP as it is results in much ambiguity on several levels of it's operation. It's an interesting problem though, and probably a profitable one, so i'm going to spend some time trying to come up with something better from scratch. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 12:04 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: Hi.. I'm building a newsscraper - portal. Fetching, parsing and storing many links to news items per hour was not much of a problem. Translations between languages can be done via google, so that wont be much of a problem either i suspect. I dont want to reveal too much of my business idea, but i do need to do text-analysis, to group related items, and make suggestions lists. I've had a dabble with creating my own ontology structure (kinda like a dictionary + thesaurus datamodel) by scraping existing ontology websites, but needless to say natural text analysis is a huge field. One that i'm a total noob in. So in the first place, I'm looking for any free/paid useful existing data-mining / text-analysis code that can be run easily from php. TBH i dont even know my feature-requirements really, i'm interested to know what's available. In the second place, i'm looking for free and published-for-a-cost data-mining / text-analysis papers/books that explain how to produce useful results. Thanks for your input. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: natural language processing (nlp) (was: natural text / human text analysis)
Thanks for the links.. But i think i'll keep at it on my own. I may be interested to set up a competitor to the companies of which you gave links. I've built a nice datamodel today, which i think will return even better results than zemanta. But what do you mean by linked data, Nathan? On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Nathan Rixham nrix...@gmail.com wrote: wouldn't be diving right in to full on nlp for this ;) it's pretty easy to do term/semantic extraction nowadays. have you seen opencalais, alchemy, zemanta, yahoo term extraction or the like? honestly I've been doing this for years and would recommend hooking up to the opencalais and zemanta api's - should you muddle your way towards linked data in any way from there give me a shout and I'll give you some pointers. There are already clients for PHP, as well as the normal cms things like drupal, wordpress etc :) regards! ps: if you really want to get in to this kind of thing then http://gate.ac.uk/ is a good starting (and ending) point -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with ?= through the str_replace(), than it is to get all the ?= writers to comply with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-) On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote: That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't. Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause problems. My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most traveled. Cheers, ted -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] $_FILE array being truncated
jumploader.com might be interesting to you.. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Richard H Lee rich...@webdezign.co.uk wrote: p.general, I have a form with 75 or so file input controls: input type=file ... Usually when I submit the form, I only upload two or so files. So in the post request, it sends the two files along with the other blank 73 fields. This has been working fine on my live and test servers so far. However as of the past few days only the first 20 file fields are recieved on the live server. I saw this by dumping the $_FILES array. This does not happen on the test server. I can see all 75 file fields been sent across in the POST header in wireshark, but but only the first 20 appear in the $_FILES array. Has anyone come across this problem of the $_FILE array being truncated? I don't recall changing anything on the live server. Richard -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Need routine to tell me number of dimensions in array.
maybe you should be foreach()ing with references?
php.net : search foreach :
As of PHP 5, you can easily modify array's elements by preceding
$value with . This will assign reference instead of copying the
value.
?php
$arr = array(1, 2, 3, 4);
foreach ($arr as $value) {
$value = $value * 2;
}
// $arr is now array(2, 4, 6, 8)
unset($value); // break the reference with the last element
?
This is possible only if iterated array can be referenced (i.e. is variable),
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Robert Cummings rob...@interjinn.com wrote:
Peter Lind wrote:
Hmm, will probably have to look inside PHP for this ... the foreach
loop will copy each element as it loops over it (without actually
copying, obviously), however there's no change happening to the
element at any point and so there's nothing to suggest to the
copy-on-write to create a new instance of the sub-array.
It should look like this:
$a = array(0, 1, 2, array(0, 1, 2, 3), 4, 5, 6, n);
$b = $a[3];
doStuffs($b);
Whether or not you loop over $a and thus move the internal pointer,
you don't change (well, shouldn't, anyway) $b as that's a subarray
which has it's own internal pointer, that isn't touched.
Or maybe I've gotten this completely backwards ...
I'm not sure of the exact reason... PHP has the following comment:
Note: Unless the array is referenced, foreach operates on a copy
of the specified array and not the array itself. foreach
has some side effects on the array pointer. Don't rely on
the array pointer during or after the foreach without
resetting it.
http://php.net/manual/en/control-structures.foreach.php
I've always found the foreach loop to a be a bit on the bizarre size, this
is probably just another one of those bizarrities :)
Cheers,
Rob.
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Re: [PHP] best way to set up an include path for a multi-level project?
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Ryan Sun ryansu...@gmail.com wrote:
just utilize include_path directive in php.ini
yea, or via ini_set('include_path', );
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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo , then deprecating ?= would be useful. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote: Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef: First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. that's a documentation error. You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?= (stop being a lazy ass! :P): it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what it means), Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they must play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static. While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to others and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't accept the short term tag, then why use it? Using Standards like this help promote better communication between all languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate better or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code. I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the programmer still doesn't get it. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] long polling solution for LAMP with limited privilege
On shared hosting, you usually can't change the 30 sec max timeout on the server.. So long polling 30s is not possible. Short polling could be the answer, which can be done with ajax (see jquery.com) from javascript, especially if you keep the cost of are there any new events for this client down.. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Ryan Sun ryansu...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if you guys have a long-polling(http://meteorserver.org/interaction-modes/) solution for a shared hosting(eg. hostmonster) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] I need a fresh look at storing variables in MySQL
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Paul M Foster pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote:
Tedd's perfectly capable of speaking for himself, but I can tell you
he's been on this list for a long time, and his skills are plenty
adequate for this task. He's just asking for second opinions.
Wouldn't someone with adequate DB skills know if he(/she) even needs
to build a datamodel, and given the simplicity of this one, how? Based
on what i mentioned earlier, type and amount of use of stored reports?
I don't mind noobishness in any area, but i have learned to keep code
as simple as possible.
BTW;
- as always, i recommend adodb.sf.net for DB abstractions.
- if you are storing in DB and displaying from DB later you need to
prevent code injections (sql, html, js, flash) by pushing all strings
used in sql insert- and update-fields;
$sql = 'insert into table (field1_int, field2_string,etc) values
('.$field1.', '.antiSQLinjection($field2).', ...);
I'm using this function atm, maybe someone can improve upon it. This
disables all sql injections, and strips all html, js flash.
function antiSQLinjection ($string) {
//anti SQL injections:
if (phpversion() = '4.3.0')
{
$string = mysql_real_escape_string($string);
}
else
{
$string = mysql_escape_string($string);
}
if(get_magic_quotes_gpc()) // prevents duplicate backslashes
{
$string = stripslashes($string);
}
//anti HTML/JS/flash injections (into searchterms, for instance):
$string = strip_tags ($string);
return $string;
}
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Re: [PHP] I need a fresh look at storing variables in MySQL
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Jochem Maas joc...@iamjochem.com wrote: first off - wasn't there a cut'n'dried piece of survey software out there that did the job? don't know off hand what the 'market' currently offers but I'm pretty sure there are a number of candidate php-based wotsits. as such they might be worth looking at just to check out their data models. +1, good point. I know there are free cloud services for dutch petitions and surveys, i bet there are for english too. A google for free online survey hosting will reap many such sites. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] I need a fresh look at storing variables in MySQL
On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote: That function won't always work. You're using a PHP version check for mysql_real_escape_string() when the most likely failure point for it is if no database connection has been opened. I never call it without an open db connection.. Also, you shouldn't strip the tags from a string that's being inserted into the database. strip_tags() is for the display of data on a web page. It's best practice not to alter the actual data you've stored but to convert it once it's displayed. Don't forget that the browser display may not be the only use for that data. Let's call that a coder's / payer's preference.. If i'd need human text, i'd want to strip it of computer code before it enters the db. Possibly log the attempt to insert code.
