Re: [PHP] RTFM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Crikey, you do go on don't you? My original point was not intended to flame newbies. Merely to point out that giving detailed explanations/answers to such questions as 'my .html file is showing my php code' repeatedly will not help newbies. Whereas a gentle push toward the manual will. * On 19-01-02 at 11:31 * Richard Baskett said I just don't understand all the intolerance some of the people on this list show. We're not all as intelligent and wise in the arts of php/mysql/etc as some of the members on this list are. One thing I do know is that we all started from the beginning and had plenty of questions. We all think differently also, which means, just because I look for two hours online for an answer to my question doesnt mean everyone else does. That also means I CAN look for two hours for an answer to my question while Joe Smoe over yonder CAN NOT look for two hours for an answer, so he posts to the list sooner than I do. Does that mean he should be flamed because of it? Nah not in my opinion.. There have also been plenty of times where I have tried everything and I just cant get it to work, so I ask, and when I get the answer back.. I hit myself on the head and think ahhh dumb$#!t I should have know that! What was I thinking! And then there have been times that friends who are much better programmers than I am can't figure something out and I whip something up quickly for them and they hit themselves on the head. We're fallible, the sooner everyone understands that the more tolerance we'll have. Some days are worse than others and hopefully someone will extend to you tolerance on those days. I loved this list when September 11th rolled around, people became tolerant, people became caring, people embraced people on this list. It was amazing.. lots of love going around. I wish I could see that type of caring for others all year long, not just until we forget that the person on the other side of the email is human also and can be offended by our intolerance and verbal assaults. Sure some questions could be solved with a little more research on the php.net site or any other site, but hey give them a break, they'll learn eventually.. hopefully.. :) Direct them to the page their answer is on and it just might introduce them to a new way of learning. Just my two, three, four cents worth.. Where's the love? :) Rick Work like you don't need the money. Dance like no one is watching. And love like you've never been hurt. - Mark Twain From: Shane Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:16:17 + To: Richard Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] RTFM Hi Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? -- Shane On Friday 18 Jan 2002 9:39 pm, Richard Crawford wrote: Consider yourself fried. ;-) Seriously, though, I think that there are more advanced PHP lists that would probably be more to your liking. Try doing a search on php.net or yahoogroups.com for something more technical. I, personally, joined this list just over a year ago when I was assigned a project at work to rebuild Phorum to work against my former company's custom database. The respondents on this group were incredibly helpful; and most of the responses to technical questions I've seen on this list have usually included comments like, This works because..., or You can find more information about this at I've found that this list is an excellent resource for beginners, as well as an excellent place for advanced users to get quick answers to urgent questions. Nick Wilson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SJLTHpvrrTa6L5oRAg8SAKCLzzFk6i29BzABak9ezbtsVIIw9wCgnn4o +Evq2JM0f2FDj1O1WEvm82o= =NaDy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional
Re: [PHP] RTFM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 19-01-02 at 11:31 * Christopher William Wesley said On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Shane Wright wrote: Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? So all the newbies can help all the newbies, and all the advanced people can help the advanced people? That wouldn't work out. All the newbies would subscribe to the advanced list, and advanced users who like helping newbies would subscribe to the newbies list. And we'd have two of the same list. Yeah, I agree, that just wouldn't work. I don't see a problem with this list. The person who started this thread, after being on the list for only a week, made a very uninformed decision to say something so devoid of value or thought that it makes less sense than when a newbie asks a question without checking the manual first. Hehe After being on the list for a year, and following the newsgroup for a year prior to subscribing to the list, I've noticed very few people asking questions that are answered in the manual more than once ... repeat offenders if you will. And there are even fewer people who are dumb enough to make an issue out of it. This list is actually quite friendly to newbies, and is a primary reason why I stay on subscribed. I like helping new php developers (in terms of using php), and I like that that there are good number of people who like helping new php developers in a very friendly manner. I'm not suggesting anyone be unfriendly to newbies, we were all there once and some of us (like me) *still* make newbies mistakes :) I suspect that those are the same reasons why new php users subscribe to the list or follow the news group for a while. On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson wrote: just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. If you notice someone asking a question that has been asnwered in the manual, and you're going to spend the time writing to the list, you might as well be as helpful as possible. Answer a question, politely note that I agree, I'm just saying that it would be more helpful to provide a gentle shove toward the relevant section of the manual than a detailed explanation that's been given many times before. the manual is a great first-source for anwers, and provide a link into the manual where the person can find that you're telling the truth. Everyone ...er, why would anyone lie? has a lapse in judgement or knowledge at some point, and if that annoys you, note that it annoys us to hear that it annoys you. People are more receptive to someone who treats them with respect than to people who preach down from a self-built soap box. No one said anything about disrespect. I think you're taking this a little to much to heart. I'm not your mom, nor a list moderator ... so take the above as advice that will help you not look like more of a fool than those whom you think are foolish. I don't think I look foolish at all :) - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SVFxHpvrrTa6L5oRAjgfAJwJSQ37Sc1MluuSGEYf+FGs5+J8GACgn7nR sknCKTSelMnFMY/0i0sqtdg= =7TDr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 19-01-02 at 00:04 * Darren Gamble said Good day, Hi there! I would agree that there certainly are some questions that deserve a bit more thought before they are posted to the list. Witness, for example, posters who respond to their own question 10 minutes later with Never mind, I solved it. Yep, that's annoying. However, I don't think anyone is in a position to say whether a question is stupid or not. Sometimes there is a simple way to do something, but it escapes the poster who is otherwise a good programmer. Good point :) Yes, for a user to succeed with a programming language it's important that they not use a mailing list as a crutch, and be told to examine the documentation when appropriate (especially documentation as good as it is with PHP). But I, for one, would much rather have a friendly community such as this one to encourage and support the use of PHP for all. Me too, many people who responded to my original post seem to think that *i think* all newbie questions that would not have been asked had they bothered to look at the manual should be responded to unkindly. Not true, we were all there once (and still am somtimes) and I was told to RTFM on more than one occasion :) Best advice I was ever given! - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SVOJHpvrrTa6L5oRAr1MAJ9JoIVSeSx6mqiI3urExMtDQ44kwgCgrhqF MDb74teAmyBZFhLQ3d2Yjjo= =1LPo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 19-01-02 at 18:46 * Brian Clark said * Nick Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 19. 2002 06:05]: [...] Me too, many people who responded to my original post seem to think that *i think* all newbie questions that would not have been asked had they bothered to look at the manual should be responded to unkindly. Not true, we were all there once (and still am somtimes) and I was told to RTFM on more than one occasion :) Best advice I was ever given! Usually, it goes like this, from what I've seen on this list over the past few years: 1. An experienced user answers a FAQ 99 times. 2. The 100th time, the question just gets deleted and the experienced user gives up answering those questions ever again. 3. A new generation of listers finally get it, and approach `experienced user' status. 4. GOTO 1 So the majority of the people that know the answers don't answer FAQ questions unless they're really bored out of their mind, or _feel like learning, themselves_. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just speaking the truth. And, the PHP manual /is/ a Fine one. -- Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805! Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8 All you will ever be you are now becoming. Yeeh! That's both funny *and* true! - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SbOwHpvrrTa6L5oRAhneAJ462JCJRRhFrBVBzxjidDZPhIQrawCeMhN8 NmSlASdbu/jdGZZsNjqbjts= =jfaJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
I've been (sorta) following this thread for the last little while and I
have to say that I'm on the side of one list for all!. The problem
with splitting the list is the different levels of newbie-ism on
different subjects, There are things that advanced users can learn from
new comers to the language too.
For instance. I don't really consider myself a total newb when it
comes to PHP anymore, but there are areas of the language that I still
haven't touched upon, which would make me a newbie. I agree though that
some questions are asked a little too often, and that could be due to
unclear documentation. If it is bothersome to you, write a nice simple
tutorial and post it!
For example, quite often I see people ask how to INSERT multiple values
from one selectbox. I have yet to see anybody post any help save for
telling people to use checkboxes instead. Using a selectbox for this
isn't all that difficult at all!
mini tutorial
//FIRST YOU START WITH A SELECTBOX
select name=selectpackage[] multiple
//NOTE THE [] AT THE END OF THE NAME FOR THE SELECTBOX, ONCE SUBMITTED
THIS WILL BE TREATED AS AN ARRAY CONTAINING THE SELECTED VALUES.
//THE MULTIPLE STATEMENT ALLOWS THE USER TO SELECT MULTIPLE OPTIONS
INSTEAD OF JUST ONE.
option value=00/option
option value=11/option
option value=22/option
/select
/// AFTER THE FORM IS SUBMITTED ///
//GET A COUNT ON THE NUMBER OF ENTRIES SELECTED
$mycount = count($selectpackage);
//USE THE RESULT FOR A COUNTER
while($mycount){
$mycount--;
//RUN YOUR INSERT COMMAND UNTIL THE COUNTER HAS EXPIRED
mysql_query(INSERT INTO mytable (myvalue1,myvalue2) VALUES
('$selectpackage[$mycount]', '$mycount'));
}
/mini tutorial
Maybe some of use should get together and start putting things like this
in a repository with an easy flexible search. I know from experience
that some of the documentation that is available to new users is a bit
on the stuffy side. Sometimes a better approach is to give up some
starter code and let them go from there.
Just my two cents worth and a mini tutorial that can be used to get
things started.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to continue banging my forehead on my
keyboard figuring out this %$#%$#@ file upload. (C:
We all benefit from new and used users alike.
~Curt~
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Re: [PHP] RTFM
I would be more than happy to put some mini-tutorials together to send
you, I'm not sure of the relevance of them though. Maybe adding a
suggest a tut area where people that are having trouble can request a
tutorial and anybody interested can fire one in?
Just a thought
~Curt~
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've actually been working on just that. I've been reading this list for a
long time and noticed the repetition. I have 65+ faqs on my site
http://www.php-faq.com/ that are there basically from my own experiences.
I haven't posted it yet, because I don't think it's full enough. It even
has a suggest-a-faq page, that'd I'd need to activate. I do like your idea
of mini-tutorials. I have a lot of programming experience (12+ years),
mostly in business applications, and know what it's like to struggle. The
mailing list is awesome; I've never really posted a question because the
answers are in the archive.
- Original Message -
From: sundogcurt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: GENERAL PHP LIST [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [PHP] RTFM
I've been (sorta) following this thread for the last little while and I
have to say that I'm on the side of one list for all!. The problem
with splitting the list is the different levels of newbie-ism on
different subjects, There are things that advanced users can learn from
new comers to the language too.
For instance. I don't really consider myself a total newb when it
comes to PHP anymore, but there are areas of the language that I still
haven't touched upon, which would make me a newbie. I agree though that
some questions are asked a little too often, and that could be due to
unclear documentation. If it is bothersome to you, write a nice simple
tutorial and post it!
For example, quite often I see people ask how to INSERT multiple values
from one selectbox. I have yet to see anybody post any help save for
telling people to use checkboxes instead. Using a selectbox for this
isn't all that difficult at all!
mini tutorial
file://FIRST YOU START WITH A SELECTBOX
select name=selectpackage[] multiple
file://NOTE THE [] AT THE END OF THE NAME FOR THE SELECTBOX, ONCE
SUBMITTED
THIS WILL BE TREATED AS AN ARRAY CONTAINING THE SELECTED VALUES.
file://THE MULTIPLE STATEMENT ALLOWS THE USER TO SELECT MULTIPLE OPTIONS
INSTEAD OF JUST ONE.
option value=00/option
option value=11/option
option value=22/option
/select
/// AFTER THE FORM IS SUBMITTED ///
file://GET A COUNT ON THE NUMBER OF ENTRIES SELECTED
$mycount = count($selectpackage);
file://USE THE RESULT FOR A COUNTER
while($mycount){
$mycount--;
file://RUN YOUR INSERT COMMAND UNTIL THE COUNTER HAS EXPIRED
mysql_query(INSERT INTO mytable (myvalue1,myvalue2) VALUES
('$selectpackage[$mycount]', '$mycount'));
}
/mini tutorial
Maybe some of use should get together and start putting things like this
in a repository with an easy flexible search. I know from experience
that some of the documentation that is available to new users is a bit
on the stuffy side. Sometimes a better approach is to give up some
starter code and let them go from there.
Just my two cents worth and a mini tutorial that can be used to get
things started.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to continue banging my forehead on my
keyboard figuring out this %$#%$#@ file upload. (C:
We all benefit from new and used users alike.
~Curt~
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Re: [PHP] RTFM
* sundogcurt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 19. 2002 13:39]: I would be more than happy to put some mini-tutorials together to send you, I'm not sure of the relevance of them though. Maybe adding a suggest a tut area where people that are having trouble can request a tutorial and anybody interested can fire one in? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've actually been working on just that. I've been reading this list for a long time and noticed the repetition. I have 65+ faqs on my site http://www.php-faq.com/ that are there basically from my own experiences. You guys have seen this, right? http://php.faqts.com/ -- Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805! Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8 Easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
Yes, and keep forgetting about it. Now it's bookmarked again. Miles PS Brian - You can come out now. At 01:46 PM 1/19/2002 -0500, Brian Clark wrote: * sundogcurt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 19. 2002 13:39]: I would be more than happy to put some mini-tutorials together to send you, I'm not sure of the relevance of them though. Maybe adding a suggest a tut area where people that are having trouble can request a tutorial and anybody interested can fire one in? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've actually been working on just that. I've been reading this list for a long time and noticed the repetition. I have 65+ faqs on my site http://www.php-faq.com/ that are there basically from my own experiences. You guys have seen this, right? http://php.faqts.com/ -- Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805! Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8 Easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
Yeah, I've seen (and used) that. But it requires searching. My idea is to put together a list of the simple questions in one place ... much like the apache faq ... and also allowing world input like the php manual does. You guys have seen this, right? http://php.faqts.com/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
Yeah, I've seen (and used) that. But it requires searching. My idea is to put together a list of the simple questions in one place ... much like the apache faq ... and also allowing world input like the php manual does. Sorry.. can't resist to reply :) From what I've seen it doesn't matter how many faqs minifaqs.. whateverfaqs you create.. Some will never learn cause the don't spend enough time to understand.. There are more then enough tutorials out there for anyone to find. How to learn PHP, or any other language: tutorials, manuals/books online or printed. Spending a LOT of time.. testing.. playing.. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
B. Yeah - play. It's the only way -- take a function, use it the right way and the wrong way. Can it be combined with other functions. What quirks of punctuation are there, etc etc. You know, I'd forgotten that too -- piddling about brings returns. Now excuse me, I have to go play with an array. Ah, true geekdom - Miles At 11:38 PM 1/19/2002 +0100, B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: Yeah, I've seen (and used) that. But it requires searching. My idea is to put together a list of the simple questions in one place ... much like the apache faq ... and also allowing world input like the php manual does. Sorry.. can't resist to reply :) From what I've seen it doesn't matter how many faqs minifaqs.. whateverfaqs you create.. Some will never learn cause the don't spend enough time to understand.. There are more then enough tutorials out there for anyone to find. How to learn PHP, or any other language: tutorials, manuals/books online or printed. Spending a LOT of time.. testing.. playing.. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] RTFM
I feel your pain. Good thought. Please Read The Fine Archive for long-running, in-depth discussion of this very topic ;) Happy Friday, all! Kirk just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
Consider yourself fried. ;-) Seriously, though, I think that there are more advanced PHP lists that would probably be more to your liking. Try doing a search on php.net or yahoogroups.com for something more technical. I, personally, joined this list just over a year ago when I was assigned a project at work to rebuild Phorum to work against my former company's custom database. The respondents on this group were incredibly helpful; and most of the responses to technical questions I've seen on this list have usually included comments like, This works because..., or You can find more information about this at I've found that this list is an excellent resource for beginners, as well as an excellent place for advanced users to get quick answers to urgent questions. Nick Wilson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. - -- Nick Wilson Tel: +45 3325 0688 Fax: +45 3325 0677 Web: www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SJLTHpvrrTa6L5oRAg8SAKCLzzFk6i29BzABak9ezbtsVIIw9wCgnn4o +Evq2JM0f2FDj1O1WEvm82o= =NaDy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Sliante, Richard S. Crawford mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mossroot.com AIM: Buffalo2K ICQ: 11646404 Yahoo!: rscrawford MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is only with the heart that we see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. --Antoine de Saint Exupery Push the button, Max! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] RTFM
Nick My personal feelings on this is that there is no such thing as a stupid question... sometimes what you might find the simplest if things becomes very difficult for another person to grasp! If you do not like the emails that people post... use the delete button! Andrew -Original Message- From: Nick Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 4:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] RTFM -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SJLTHpvrrTa6L5oRAg8SAKCLzzFk6i29BzABak9ezbtsVIIw9wCgnn4o +Evq2JM0f2FDj1O1WEvm82o= =NaDy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] RTFM
no such thing as a stupid question... I strongly disagree. Refer to the topic: RTFM. A stupid question is one that is posted to this message board before the poster bothers to do a shred of independent thinking. I've seen way too many of these questions come through this list. The MySQL list was about the same. It was more of a bother to read than it was a benefit. This list is about the same quality. Every once in a long while something useful comes along, but unfortunately their burried underneath 100 other postings of lazy newbies asking questions like *scrolls about 10 messages down* How to send url on if statement. 1) if statements are surely covered on php.net 2) It is not a php-specific question 3) If you don't understand how if statements work, use that 8lb mass on your shoulders - RTFM Just my $0.02 USD. /bart -Original Message- From: Andrew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 4:49 PM To: Nick Wilson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] RTFM Nick My personal feelings on this is that there is no such thing as a stupid question... sometimes what you might find the simplest if things becomes very difficult for another person to grasp! If you do not like the emails that people post... use the delete button! Andrew -Original Message- From: Nick Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 4:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] RTFM -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SJLTHpvrrTa6L5oRAg8SAKCLzzFk6i29BzABak9ezbtsVIIw9wCgnn4o +Evq2JM0f2FDj1O1WEvm82o= =NaDy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 18-01-02 at 22:52 * Andrew said Nick My personal feelings on this is that there is no such thing as a stupid question... sometimes what you might find the simplest if things becomes very difficult for another person to grasp! If you do not like the emails that people post... use the delete button! Sure, I often find myself posting question i *know* are stupid to list but at least I make a point of RTFM and doing a search first. I'm not Einstein and I know my limitatiions but reading a well publicized document is not one of them. Occasionally I just 'dont get it' and that's what a *valuable* list is about. Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SKU2HpvrrTa6L5oRAoS9AJsEAD/AbUDEgzCEjxxBgVBcSkAhoACfRPbV V5VbnN3plSU/VbQWCYadVjg= =Q9ka -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * On 18-01-02 at 23:31 * Bart Brinkmann said no such thing as a stupid question... I strongly disagree. Refer to the topic: RTFM. A stupid question is one that is posted to this message board before the poster bothers to do a shred of independent thinking. I've seen way too many of these questions come through this list. The MySQL list was about the same. It was more of a bother to read than it was a benefit. This list is about the same quality. Every once in a long while something useful comes along, but unfortunately their burried underneath 100 other postings of lazy newbies asking questions like *scrolls about 10 messages down* How to send url on if statement. - -- Yeah! When I started php I used to go to www.phpbuilder.com for my answers. I suspect that I'm not the only one :) Asking dumb Q's is not a sign of mental deficiency, it's a symptom of the human condition. I really don't mind siily Q's. What I *do* mind is when I see the smae twat asking an equally stupid Q an hour later. If those of us (and I flatter myself in my inclusion) that know a *little* about php refer the *I've discoverd php and it's not easy* comments to good sources such as the FM! we might all benifit a little? Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SKdOHpvrrTa6L5oRAt5qAKCVjODyjwIQjK7y/q77HaHMHdFOKQCeM6ib MfghJRafLisRc+Xz103bLFM= =B4fb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] RTFM
Good day, I would agree that there certainly are some questions that deserve a bit more thought before they are posted to the list. Witness, for example, posters who respond to their own question 10 minutes later with Never mind, I solved it. However, I don't think anyone is in a position to say whether a question is stupid or not. Sometimes there is a simple way to do something, but it escapes the poster who is otherwise a good programmer. Or, sometimes, it's just because other readers don't read the question properly, and think it's a lot simpler than it really is. I know I, on _many_ occasions, have posted I need to do foo, and A won't work because X, and B would be too much overhead because Y and have people answer with my own rejected solution Do A, you newbie , obviously without even reading the entirety of the message. With apologies to Bart, I will point out that the question that Bart quoted is a perfectly valid question with non-trivial solutions. The original poster is well aware of how if statements work, but that appeared to be lost in Bart's reading. Does using Javascript to redirect a user to another page have to do anything with PHP? In this case ... yes! The situation described by the original poster would be something that only a PHP programmer (or ASP, etc.) would run into, where a user has to make a decision whether or not to redirect a user halfway though a page. Where would be the best place to ask for advice on how to do that? Is this PHP mailing list perhaps not the MOST suitable place for something like that? Yes, for a user to succeed with a programming language it's important that they not use a mailing list as a crutch, and be told to examine the documentation when appropriate (especially documentation as good as it is with PHP). But I, for one, would much rather have a friendly community such as this one to encourage and support the use of PHP for all. My two cents CND (one cent USD). Darren Gamble Planner, Regional Services Shaw Cablesystems GP 630 - 3rd Avenue SW Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2P 4L4 (403) 781-4948 -Original Message- From: Bart Brinkmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 3:25 PM To: Andrew; Nick Wilson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] RTFM no such thing as a stupid question... I strongly disagree. Refer to the topic: RTFM. A stupid question is one that is posted to this message board before the poster bothers to do a shred of independent thinking. I've seen way too many of these questions come through this list. The MySQL list was about the same. It was more of a bother to read than it was a benefit. This list is about the same quality. Every once in a long while something useful comes along, but unfortunately their burried underneath 100 other postings of lazy newbies asking questions like *scrolls about 10 messages down* How to send url on if statement. 1) if statements are surely covered on php.net 2) It is not a php-specific question 3) If you don't understand how if statements work, use that 8lb mass on your shoulders - RTFM Just my $0.02 USD. /bart -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
Hi Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? -- Shane On Friday 18 Jan 2002 9:39 pm, Richard Crawford wrote: Consider yourself fried. ;-) Seriously, though, I think that there are more advanced PHP lists that would probably be more to your liking. Try doing a search on php.net or yahoogroups.com for something more technical. I, personally, joined this list just over a year ago when I was assigned a project at work to rebuild Phorum to work against my former company's custom database. The respondents on this group were incredibly helpful; and most of the responses to technical questions I've seen on this list have usually included comments like, This works because..., or You can find more information about this at I've found that this list is an excellent resource for beginners, as well as an excellent place for advanced users to get quick answers to urgent questions. Nick Wilson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SJLTHpvrrTa6L5oRAg8SAKCLzzFk6i29BzABak9ezbtsVIIw9wCgnn4o +Evq2JM0f2FDj1O1WEvm82o= =NaDy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
I just don't understand all the intolerance some of the people on this list show. We're not all as intelligent and wise in the arts of php/mysql/etc as some of the members on this list are. One thing I do know is that we all started from the beginning and had plenty of questions. We all think differently also, which means, just because I look for two hours online for an answer to my question doesnt mean everyone else does. That also means I CAN look for two hours for an answer to my question while Joe Smoe over yonder CAN NOT look for two hours for an answer, so he posts to the list sooner than I do. Does that mean he should be flamed because of it? Nah not in my opinion.. There have also been plenty of times where I have tried everything and I just cant get it to work, so I ask, and when I get the answer back.. I hit myself on the head and think ahhh dumb$#!t I should have know that! What was I thinking! And then there have been times that friends who are much better programmers than I am can't figure something out and I whip something up quickly for them and they hit themselves on the head. We're fallible, the sooner everyone understands that the more tolerance we'll have. Some days are worse than others and hopefully someone will extend to you tolerance on those days. I loved this list when September 11th rolled around, people became tolerant, people became caring, people embraced people on this list. It was amazing.. lots of love going around. I wish I could see that type of caring for others all year long, not just until we forget that the person on the other side of the email is human also and can be offended by our intolerance and verbal assaults. Sure some questions could be solved with a little more research on the php.net site or any other site, but hey give them a break, they'll learn eventually.. hopefully.. :) Direct them to the page their answer is on and it just might introduce them to a new way of learning. Just my two, three, four cents worth.. Where's the love? :) Rick Work like you don't need the money. Dance like no one is watching. And love like you've never been hurt. - Mark Twain From: Shane Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:16:17 + To: Richard Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] RTFM Hi Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? -- Shane On Friday 18 Jan 2002 9:39 pm, Richard Crawford wrote: Consider yourself fried. ;-) Seriously, though, I think that there are more advanced PHP lists that would probably be more to your liking. Try doing a search on php.net or yahoogroups.com for something more technical. I, personally, joined this list just over a year ago when I was assigned a project at work to rebuild Phorum to work against my former company's custom database. The respondents on this group were incredibly helpful; and most of the responses to technical questions I've seen on this list have usually included comments like, This works because..., or You can find more information about this at I've found that this list is an excellent resource for beginners, as well as an excellent place for advanced users to get quick answers to urgent questions. Nick Wilson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and I don't object to the 'I had a look but...' posts I just think the list might be a little more interesting if those that *really* know there stuff stopped giving detailed answers to Q's like 'my html page shows the php code' and were just a little less tolerant. Feel free to fry me. - -- Nick Wilson Tel:+45 3325 0688 Fax:+45 3325 0677 Web:www.explodingnet.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE8SJLTHpvrrTa6L5oRAg8SAKCLzzFk6i29BzABak9ezbtsVIIw9wCgnn4o +Evq2JM0f2FDj1O1WEvm82o= =NaDy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
Maybe anyone volunteers as moderator ?? thought so ;) bvr. On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:16:17 +, Shane Wright wrote: Hi Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
If this is going to be pursued, start a new thread...please. Miles At 01:16 AM 1/19/2002 +, Shane Wright wrote: Hi Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? -- Shane On Friday 18 Jan 2002 9:39 pm, Richard Crawford wrote: snip -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] two lists (was: RE: [PHP] RTFM)
Hi, we could split it into two lists... but I think that the amount of help available to newbies would decrease if we split the list. James Cox -- James Cox :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please CC me when replying to my messages on lists. Was I helpful? http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/wishlist/23IVGHQ61RJGO/ -Original Message- From: bvr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 1:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] RTFM Maybe anyone volunteers as moderator ?? thought so ;) bvr. On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:16:17 +, Shane Wright wrote: Hi Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM
On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Shane Wright wrote: Maybe this list should be split - kindof into a php-newbies and a php-advanced ? So all the newbies can help all the newbies, and all the advanced people can help the advanced people? That wouldn't work out. All the newbies would subscribe to the advanced list, and advanced users who like helping newbies would subscribe to the newbies list. And we'd have two of the same list. I don't see a problem with this list. The person who started this thread, after being on the list for only a week, made a very uninformed decision to say something so devoid of value or thought that it makes less sense than when a newbie asks a question without checking the manual first. After being on the list for a year, and following the newsgroup for a year prior to subscribing to the list, I've noticed very few people asking questions that are answered in the manual more than once ... repeat offenders if you will. And there are even fewer people who are dumb enough to make an issue out of it. This list is actually quite friendly to newbies, and is a primary reason why I stay on subscribed. I like helping new php developers (in terms of using php), and I like that that there are good number of people who like helping new php developers in a very friendly manner. I suspect that those are the same reasons why new php users subscribe to the list or follow the news group for a while. On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson wrote: just a very quick note: I've been following the list for about a week and I probably follow one or two threads a day. Some of the stuff here is *very* interesting. Unfortunately most of the stuff posted is a little ridiculous in that it's posted by people that clearly don't know where the online manual is located. If you notice someone asking a question that has been asnwered in the manual, and you're going to spend the time writing to the list, you might as well be as helpful as possible. Answer a question, politely note that the manual is a great first-source for anwers, and provide a link into the manual where the person can find that you're telling the truth. Everyone has a lapse in judgement or knowledge at some point, and if that annoys you, note that it annoys us to hear that it annoys you. People are more receptive to someone who treats them with respect than to people who preach down from a self-built soap box. I'm not your mom, nor a list moderator ... so take the above as advice that will help you not look like more of a fool than those whom you think are foolish. ~Chris /\ \ / September 11, 2001 X We Are All New Yorkers / \ rm -rf /bin/laden -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM code snippet
I'm not sure if a resource casted to numeric to be 0 - var_dump() to say :(0) resource
of type
!==flase assures that it is FALSE, not 0.
!== is like != but makes type checking. Frequently used with strpos(). See the memos
there.
There is also available === operator. It is like == but also makes type comparison.
Regards,
Andrey Hristov
- Original Message -
From: mike cullerton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: php-general [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 5:01 PM
Subject: [PHP] RTFM code snippet
hey folks, hope the new year is treating everyone well.
i was RTFMing yesterday and ran across this piece of code
while (false !== ($file = readdir($handle))) {
which is similar to stuff i've done
while ($file = readdir($dir)) {
so, what am i not catching with my code, and what is really going on in the
RTFM code with the false !== part?
thanks y'all,
mike
-- mike cullerton
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Re: [PHP] RTFM me to IIF file format creation...
I find wotsit.org an excellent resource : http://www.wotsit.org/ -Stathis. Dallas Kropka wrote: I need to create files and reports for importation into QuickBooks, but they need to be in the IIF file format that QuickBooks supports where can I find information for creating these files? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] RTFM me to IIF file format creation...
Addressed to: "Dallas Kropka" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
** Reply to note from "Dallas Kropka" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat, 13 Jan 2001
19:15:02 -0600
I need to create files and reports for importation into QuickBooks,
but they need to be in the IIF file format that QuickBooks
supports where can I find information for creating these files?
The content of the iif files is defined in Quickbooks help. Look for
IIF or Data import. It differs for each type of data you are
transferring. You will have to look in help to get the definitions.
There is also info on the subject and example files on the quickbooks
web site. www.quickbooks.com, I think. Search on IIF, and maybe the
type of file you want to create.
From memory, not tested
You can provide several different types of data in a single file. The
file needs to start with a definition of the fields you are going to
present. These definition lines start with !. Each of your data lines
must have the exact same fields in the order you defined them in the !
lines. You don't have to provide all the possible values, but some
record types do have required fields that must be provided, and filled
in.
Each record is a number of values with "\t" between them. The record
ends with "\r\n". You must use double quotes so the tabs (\t) and
Dos/Windows style line breaks {\r\n) are converted to the proper
character values.
/from memory
Once you have reviewed Quickbooks help, and the web site, if you have
specific quesions on your file format, ask again. It is actually
pretty easy. The best way to verify your files during development is
to open them with a spreadsheet program. Also, you MUST backup the
quickbooks data before you try testing your upload. If it fails for
any reason, just restore, fix the problem and upload again. Don't feel
bad if you do this a couple dozen times before everything works.
Rick Widmer
Internet Marketing Specialists
http://www.developersdesk.com
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