Re: Need help with relay setup

>>>>> "Noel" == Noel Jones <njo...@megan.vbhcs.org> writes: Noel> On 4/6/2016 10:11 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >>>>>>> "Noel" == Noel Jones <njo...@megan.vbhcs.org> writes: >> Noel> On 4/6/2016 8:06 AM, John

Need help with relay setup

Hi Guys, I'm trying to replace an old Sun 5.8 box running Sendmail 8.12.x with a newer RHEL 6 box running Postfix 2.6.6, which I know is unsupported and I should upgrade. But it's what comes from RedHat and it's what I'm working with right now. Anyway, I'm going nuts trying to make my crazy

Re: Need help with relay setup

>>>>> "Noel" == Noel Jones <njo...@megan.vbhcs.org> writes: Noel> On 4/6/2016 8:06 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >> Can I force the fallback_transport to re-write, before using the >> fallback, john.t...@foo.bar.com into john.t...@hdqmta.foo.bar.com? >&g

Re: mail sent via sendmail is queued and delayed for approx. 300 seconds

> "Dietrich" == Dietrich Streifert > writes: Dietrich> I'm running centos 7.2 with postfix 2.10.1, installed from the standard Dietrich> centos 7 repo which corresponds to rhel 7. Dietrich> I'm using php mail to send mails which uses

Re: blocking offending IPs (relay access, hello rejects, rate limit exceeded, ..)

> "Karel" == Karel writes: Karel> I am running small Postfix server for personal use. My logs are flooded Karel> with: Karel> relay access denied Karel> hello rejects Karel> connection rate limit exceeded ... Karel> lost connection after AUTH from ...

Re: Postfix 20 years ago

Wietse, Thank you so much for postfix. I'm a recovering Sendmail user and I thank you every day. I've been migrating my $WORK servers to postfix too, and it just makes life much much much simpler. John

Re: Address rewriting help?

> "Tom" == Tom Horsley writes: Tom> On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:32:03 -0400 Tom> Tom Horsley wrote: >> I'm just reading about the pickup program and the >> receive_override_options to turn off mapping. >> I think that might work, only the mail from >> fetchmail is being

Re: Restriction question

Mark> I'd like to configure Postfix such that I can prevent certain Mark> IP's/networks from sending email to 'external' recipients. I'm Mark> basically trying to set it so that our dev and test web Mark> application servers can't email any domains other than our own - Mark> so developers can

Re: TLS issue

The problem is only going to get worse, so any guidance and probably even some more general error messages giving more direct hints would be appreciated. The guy who just posted his solution to interoperable with old postfix and the Windows patch he could us is a perfect example. Sent from

problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

Hi all, We're running postfix-2.6.6-6.el6_5.x86_64 on RHEL 6.6 and running into a problem where emails that have been released from our outside spam protection company, *.protection.outlook.com, are getting rejected with messages like this: Mar 26 06:00:56 mailhost postfix/smtpd[2270]:

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

>>>>> "Dominic" == Dominic Raferd <domi...@timedicer.co.uk> writes: Dominic> On 30 March 2017 at 15:26, John Stoffel <j...@stoffel.org> wrote: Dominic> Hi all, Dominic> We're running postfix-2.6.6-6.el6_5.x86_64 on RHEL 6.6 and running Domi

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: Wietse> Postfix reports this error because it is responsible for 'example.com' Wietse> and the message has 'Delivered-To: u...@example.com'. Thank you for your reply! And thank you for postfix in general, it's made my life simpler

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

>>>>> "Noel" == Noel Jones <njo...@megan.vbhcs.org> writes: Noel> On 3/30/2017 9:26 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> We're running postfix-2.6.6-6.el6_5.x86_64 on RHEL 6.6 and running >> into a problem where emails tha

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

Well, I've confirmed that EOP (protection.outloko.com, our external Spam filter provider) is adding in the "Delivered-To:" head when emails that have been quarrantined are released to be delivered in to us. I'm amazed others haven't seen this problem yet, but maybe we're strange. In any case,

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

>>>>> "Viktor" == Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-us...@dukhovni.org> writes: >> On Apr 4, 2017, at 5:26 PM, John Stoffel <j...@stoffel.org> wrote: >> >> But I only want this replamcent to happen for email that comes from a >> specifi

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

>>>>> "John" == John Stoffel <j...@stoffel.org> writes: >>>>> "Noel" == Noel Jones <njo...@megan.vbhcs.org> writes: Noel> On 3/30/2017 9:26 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>&g

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

tance via the firewall... Mike> Quoting John Stoffel <j...@stoffel.org>: >> Well, I've confirmed that EOP (protection.outloko.com, our external >> Spam filter provider) is adding in the "Delivered-To:" head when >> emails that have been quarrantined are re

Re: Postfix impatient with mysql?

>>>>> "Robert" == Robert Moskowitz <r...@htt-consult.com> writes: Robert> On 04/06/2017 02:17 PM, John Stoffel wrote: Robert> It seems postfix is impatient with connecting with mysql, as I see in Robert> maillog entries like: >> Robert> Apr 6 11:

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

>>>>> "Viktor" == Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-us...@dukhovni.org> writes: >> On Apr 10, 2017, at 4:01 PM, John Stoffel <j...@stoffel.org> wrote: >> >> Since I built 2.11.9 by hand, I'm willing to do this hack as well I >> think. I

Re: problem with protection.outlook.com released spam getting bounced

>>>>> "Noel" == Noel Jones <njo...@megan.vbhcs.org> writes: Noel> On 3/31/2017 3:50 PM, John Stoffel wrote: >> So I created the following entry in my header_checks file: >> >> /^Delivered-To:/ WARN Found email with Delivered-To: header a

Re: Postfix impatient with mysql?

Robert> It seems postfix is impatient with connecting with mysql, as I see in Robert> maillog entries like: Robert> Apr 6 11:48:30 z9m9z dovecot: dict: Error: mysql(localhost): Connect Robert> failed to database (postfix): Can't connect to local MySQL server Robert> through socket

Re: scan_dir_push: open directory defer: Permission denied

> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: Wietse> DecebalICT: >> I went from an openSUSE system to a Debian 9 system. How did you do this upgrade? A clean install of Debian onto new partitions? I suggest that you instead purge postfix on the debian system and then

Re: scan_dir_push: open directory defer: Permission denied

Cecil> ​That was a good idea yes. I have postfix running, but I cannot Cecil> send email to an external domain. But that is better in another Cecil> thread I think. Now you need to send details of your setup from the DEBUGGING docs. postconf -n, etc. Do you have a mail server you send all email

Re: Finding why outbound mail is delayed

Could it be that you mail server is looking up and finding IPv6 addresses, but you don't have IPv6 enabled on your setup? Try forcing postfix to only use IPv4. John

Re: Question regarding use of amavisd-new

> "Sven" == Sven Schwedas writes: Sven> On 2017-12-12 10:55, J Doe wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I was wondering if fellow Postfix users would still recommend using >> amavisd-new when integrating AV (ClamAV), and spam filtering (SpamAssasin) ? Sven> There's nothing wrong with

Re: OT: Risks & mitigations of allowing an external sender to send to us (with sender 'same domain' as us)

> "Roger" == Roger Goh writes: Roger> There is an external app server (that is our service provider) Roger> that we want them to blast emails to a team/department in our Roger> organization (email domain @xyz.com ) but these emails will Roger> have the sender to be in same

RE: Add additional smtp port in postfix

> "Dino" == Dino Edwards writes: >> The main question is, why do you need port other than 25? Dino> Cause Verizon blocks all incoming and outgoing traffic to port Dino> 25 unless it's to their SMTP servers and I have an Exchange Dino> server that needs to

Re: ot: MySQL config/tuning advice

> "Voytek" == Voytek writes: Voytek> I have old server Postfix 2.x with MySQL, migrating to Postfix Voytek> 3.x on a new Centos 7 MariaDB 10.2, virtual user/domain, maybe Voytek> 20 domain/100 users, see abbreviated usage summary [1] So what is the advantage of using

Re: Fall back to relay after a 5XX reply from destination?

ns blacklists). >> Matus> Wietse told you the rest. Imho there's no point in playing with what you Matus> propose inatead of fixing the IP reputation. Matus> On 26.07.18 11:14, John Stoffel wrote: >> Or do what I do and spin up a Digital Ocean droplet for $6/mo that >> le

Re: Fall back to relay after a 5XX reply from destination?

> "Matus" == Matus UHLAR <- fantomas > writes: Matus> On 26.07.18 13:38, Luc Pardon wrote: >> Recently, my provider forced me from ADSL (being phased out here) to >> VDSL, and I now find myself sending mail from a "dynamic" IP address... Matus> is it really dynamic? Was the previous one

Re: Keep Postfix running in the foreground

> "Ralph" == Ralph Seichter writes: Ralph> On 02.04.2018 19:55, John Allen wrote: >> what is the attraction of docker? What does it do that I might need? Ralph> You might need it because a Docker container is the recommended method Ralph> to deploy Discourse,

Re: how to specify approved senders for recipient?

> "Chad" == Chad M Stewart writes: Chad> I want to setup a method by which only senders which are in a defined Chad> list can send a message to a given recipient. External or internal recipient? And wouldn't the simplest method just be a procmail or sieve filter on the receivers end?

Re: Enabling TLSv1.2 support in postfix 2.8.2

> "Daniel" == Daniel Ryšlink writes: Daniel> | You disable cleartext SMTP as well? Daniel> The rationale here is that by accepting provenly insecure Daniel> protocols, one provides an illusion of security, which is Daniel> potentially more dangerous than transparently refuse, and fall

Re: logfile support for MacOS

> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: Wietse> I'm implementing logfile support for Postfix on MacOS, because not Wietse> providing results in a bad experience. Wietse> This is a retrofit workaround, therefore it will have limitations Wietse> that do not exist with the default syslog-based

Re: Forwarding received mail through AWS SES

> "Durga" == Durga Prasad Malyala writes: Durga> Correct. I would recommend linode or digitalocean any time over Durga> AWS SES. AWS is a good option for heavy transactional mail Durga> alerts etc.  The only problem with Digital Ocean right now is that Charter/Spectrum in the US has

Re: New SASL error when relaying through gmail

Michael> I have been using postfix on a local machine for a few years Michael> to act as a relay for my domain to send email out through Michael> gmail. Michael> This has worked well enough, but I noticed recently that I Michael> had some email queued up and was not getting emails out any

Re: Forwarding received mail through AWS SES

>>>>> "Yuval" == Yuval Levy writes: Yuval> On 2019-01-20 14:40, John Stoffel wrote: >> The only problem with Digital Ocean right now is that Charter/Spectrum >> in the US has blocked all (most? At least the one I'm using...) blocks >> assigned to

Re: logfile support for MacOS

>>>>> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: Wietse> John Stoffel: >> >>>>> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: >> Wietse> I'm implementing logfile support for Postfix on MacOS, because not Wietse> providing results in

RE: nfs as mailq storage?

De> Can you tell me witch param I need to change in main.cf to mount De> the nfs to the mailq? As others have said, you need to mount the NFS data store holding your mailq onto the server. But then you need to make sure your NFS server is robust and reliable as well. This starts to get into

Re: How to protect against compromised email account password

> "Gary" == Gary writes: Gary> Number 4 is immensely useful. When I had a hosted service, I got hacked from someone in Morocco via a Round Cube exploit that wasn't patched. (My PayPal account subsequently hacked, though I had the account suspended.) Gary> I saw two problems. One, I only

Re: How to protect against compromised email account password

Gary> What ISP specifically bans Digital Ocean? Charter/Spectrum. Gary> What you need is some other email account, say proton, to start Gary> the dialog with the ISP that bans your Digital Ocean account. Or Gary> you look for some online form or forum. I had this problem with Gary> SBC (AT)

Re: rewriting From: address based on To: address

> "Ian!" == Ian! D Allen writes: Ian!> On Sun, Mar 03, 2019 at 03:51:35PM -0500, Wietse Venema wrote: >> smtp unix - - n - - smtp >> -o { smtp_generic_maps = inline:{{idal...@idallen.ca = you@college}}} Ian!> Am I right that since my master.cf already has

Re: Postfix stable release 3.4.2

> "PGNet" == PGNet Dev writes: PGNet> On 3/10/19 3:19 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: >> * LINUX5 is supported, based on sanity checks with a Rawhide >> prerelease. PGNet> fyi, still PGNet> cd postfix-3.4.2 PGNet> make tidy PGNet> make -f Makefile.in MAKELEVEL= Makefiles PGNet>

Re: SMTP_HELO_NAME can cause Blacklist triggers

> "Alice" == Alice Wonder writes: Alice> On 2/7/19 2:52 PM, Bill Cole wrote: Alice> *snip* >> >> But your core point is valid: mailing from an AWS instance (or from >> anywhere on an IP with a programmatically derived PTR) in general is >> going to work poorly. There is too little

Re: spam from own email address

> "Phil" == Phil Stracchino writes: Phil> On 4/23/19 2:40 PM, lists wrote: >> I would investigate using rspamd rather than spamassassin. At the moment >> I run neither since I have settled upon a nice mix of RBLs and check the >> reverse pointer. That Perl code to get rid of dynamic domains

Re: smtpd_tls_chain_files and EC PARAMETERS

>>>>> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: Wietse> John Stoffel: >> >>>>> "Viktor" == Viktor Dukhovni writes: >> Viktor> On an mostly unrelated note, OpenSSL 3.0 (~Q4 2020) is changing the Viktor> error API, so we'll

Re: smtpd_tls_chain_files and EC PARAMETERS

> "Viktor" == Viktor Dukhovni writes: Viktor> On an mostly unrelated note, OpenSSL 3.0 (~Q4 2020) is changing the Viktor> error API, so we'll eventually need: Viktor> --- src/tls/tls_misc.c Viktor> +++ src/tls/tls_misc.c Viktor> @@ -1332,6 +1332,18 @@ voidtls_print_errors(void) Viktor>

Re: Postfix Maildir problems

> "Richard" == Richard Rasker writes: Richard> Hell John, Richard> Package versions: Richard> # apt list postfix Richard> Listing... Done Richard> postfix/oldstable,now 3.1.12-0+deb9u1 i386 [installed] Richard> #apt list courier-imap Richard> Listing... Done Richard>

Re: Postfix Maildir problems

> "Richard" == Richard Rasker writes: Richard> Hello, Richard> I just installed a new mail server on Debian 9 (Stretch) with the following setup: Richard> - postfix Richard> - courier-imap + courier-imap-ssl Richard> - amavis + spamassassin Richard> - courier-maildrop for delivery to

Re: Send only configuration best practices?

> "Bob" == Bob Proulx writes: Bob> What's the best configuration for a web server that does not Bob> receive mail but needs to send mail? Password resets. Bug Bob> ticket update notifications. That type of email. (Plus admin Bob> mail such as cron output to root. But I can ensure that

Re: Accessing the sending user from a canonical(5) table

> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: Wietse> Viktor Dukhovni: >> > On Oct 25, 2020, at 9:08 PM, Wietse Venema wrote: >> > >> > What about making the '#' a suffix instead? That is still unlikely >> > to clash with existing user naming schemes. BTW I realize that there >> > is no unit test

Re: Accessing the sending user from a canonical(5) table

>>>>> "Viktor" == Viktor Dukhovni writes: >> On Oct 27, 2020, at 11:42 PM, John Stoffel wrote: >> >> Could someone have an email address of "uid:j...@some.place.home" down >> the line? Viktor> The lookup key is a login name, giv

Re: Issue with postfix and glusterFS

Samuel> I encountered some issues with postfix when the Samuel> /var/spool/postfix is on a glusterfs. The postfix queue is Samuel> blocked suddenly and no more mail is sent. Please see http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html and re-send your problem with the right details. Samuel> I don't

Re: Javamail connection

> "James" == James B Byrne writes: James> On Mon, December 21, 2020 20:00, Jaroslaw Rafa wrote: >> >> If you are able to connect via 465, then maybe the application just isn't >> designed to use "inline" TLS, but rather uses only SMTP-over-TLS? The latter >> is supported on port 465, while

Re: Javamail connection

>>>>> "James" == James B Byrne writes: James> On Fri, December 25, 2020 12:43, John Stoffel wrote: >> >> Why don't you setup a local only postfix instance on the same host as >> the application, which only listed on 127.0.0.1:25, which the dumb &g

Re: Ignoring a failing dictionary ?

> "Ganael" == Ganael Laplanche writes: Ganael> On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 1:59:42 PM CET Wietse Venema wrote: Ganael> Hello Wietse, Ganael> Thanks for your reply, >> > Ignoring errors would result in misdelivery of email. You may have >> expectations that it is OK for software to

Re: Ignoring a failing dictionary ?

> "Ganael" == Ganael Laplanche writes: Ganael> H... If we put the dump before, we will loose our 7-days Ganael> window to react. What could be done maybe is have 2 hash maps Ganael> and not use LDAP at all : 1 file generated every hour and our Ganael> 7-days old dump as a second choice.

Re: Milter calls based on conditions and deliberate delays

> "Ralph" == Ralph Seichter writes: Ralph> * Wietse Venema: >> What problem are you trying to solve? Ralph> Milters A, B and C in my example scenario can trigger Ralph> asynchronous actions in backend systems, the results of which Ralph> become available only after a delay caused by

Re: Spam pass the filter

> "Girish" == Girish Venkatachalam writes: Girish> On 04:41 PM 17-Sep-21, Benny Pedersen wrote: >> On 2021-09-17 14:40, Christian Schmitz wrote: >> make a spamassassin rule to check dkim, make that dkim score 1000, if >> you reject high score spam there is nothing more to do Girish> In

Re: Logging silence

> "Simon" == Simon Wilson writes: John> More details would help us help you. John> John Simon> I worked it out. journald.conf was set to MaxLevelStore=notice, Simon> so it wasn't just postfix not logging, just that was the Simon> symptom picked up. Simon> I really was missing something

Re: feature request: improve vague/incorrect error message

> "Jim" == Jim writes: >> Instead, use Maildir format with one message per file, Jim> I thought about that once, but I decided I have too many e-mail Jim> messages for that. (I don't want to run out of inodes, nor do I want to Jim> make file accesses too slow because of the number of

Re: Logging silence

> "Simon" == Simon Wilson writes: Simon> I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... :( Simon> Multiple RedHat8 servers, Postfix configured on all of them for Simon> internal network mail server (primarily server log updates, Simon> etc. to admin). Have you restarted syslog (or

Re: Logging silence

>>>>> "Simon" == Simon Wilson writes: Simon> ----- Message from John Stoffel - Simon>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 21:37:12 -0500 Simon>From: John Stoffel Simon> Subject: Re: Logging silence Simon> To: si...@simonandkate.net Simon>

Upgrading 2.11.x config for 3.5 and removing local delivery

Hi all, I'm in the process of upgrading an old RHEL 6.6 server running a hacked postfix 2.11.9 release to something newer, on Ubuntu 21.4 and using postfix 3.5.6 but I'm running into a minor annoyance. This server handles incoming email, looks for a match in an NIS mail.aliases map, and then

Re: Upgrading 2.11.x config for 3.5 and removing local delivery

>>>>> "John" == John Stoffel writes: John> I'm in the process of upgrading an old RHEL 6.6 server running a John> hacked postfix 2.11.9 release to something newer, on Ubuntu 21.4 and John> using postfix 3.5.6 but I'm running into a minor annoyance. John&g

Re: Removing a user...

SH> We have a postfix/dovecot/mysql configuration. We recently SH> removed one of the users from the database, however when we send SH> email, it still looks like the address we are sending to is a SH> local address and bounces with a “no such user” error. Please post your config values. But

Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay?

Hi all, I run my own domain @stoffel.org and I'm trying to fix a problem sending email to @charter.net users, since Spectrum has blocked my Linode's ASN number completely. My IP passes all the RBL blacklists their first line support suggested I check, but I find my IP for mail.stoffel.org in

Re: how to deal with t-online's blocking

> "Henry" == Henry R writes: > I was once charter's customer. > But I leave them since charter was bought by Spectrum. > And spectrum blocks all IP from DO and Linode. Yup, so now I'm trying to setup things so that my postfix routes all emails to @charter.net users via my charter login, but

Re: Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay?

>>>>> "Rob" == Rob McGee writes: > On 12/3/2022 9:37 AM, John Stoffel wrote: >>>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch writes: >> >>> On Fri, 2022-12-02 at 11:36 -0500, John Stoffel wrote: >>> I check, but I find my

Re: how to deal with t-online's blocking

> "Henry" == Henry R writes: > My mailserver once had some issues on sending messages to different > providers. I have contacted the provders and most of them were kind > enough to resolve the blocking issue. Thanks for them (ATT, GMX, > 1and1 etc). I'm in the same boat with one provider,

Re: Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay?

> "Bill" == Bill Cole writes: > On 2022-12-04 at 20:57:49 UTC-0500 (Sun, 4 Dec 2022 20:57:49 -0500) > You are missing the point here. > NO ONE running a serious mailserver will reject mail based on a > UCEPROTECT level 3 listing. It is a waste of your energy to focus on > that listing.

Re: Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay?

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch writes: > On Fri, 2022-12-02 at 11:36 -0500, John Stoffel wrote: > I check, but I find my IP for mail.stoffel.org in the UCEPROTECT-3  > spam list. Nothing I can do about it.  > I doubt that many sites block by using U

Re: AW: Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay?

t; Von: owner-postfix-us...@postfix.org Im > Auftrag von John Stoffel > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Dezember 2022 17:37 > An: Postfix users > Betreff: Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay? > Hi all, > I run my own domain @stoffel.org and I'm trying to fix a problem sending

Re: Send email to one @domain.com via authenticated relay?

>>>>> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema writes: > Viktor Dukhovni: >> On Fri, Dec 02, 2022 at 11:36:30AM -0500, John Stoffel wrote: >> >> > I tried setting up /etc/postfix/transport_maps like this: >> > >> >

Re: incoming log entries missing during peak arrival time

> "Dhammika" == Dhammika Gunawardena writes: > We maintain a private relay server to send ebills for a customer. Please send more details on your setup: OS, postfix version, "postconf -nf" output, etc. Give more details > During peak sending hours, we miss about 5-10% of incoming

[P-U] Re: Postfix lists are migrating to a new list server

>>>>> "Phil" == Phil Stracchino via Postfix-users >>>>> writes: > On 3/7/23 15:36, Bernardo Reino via Postfix-users wrote: >> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023, John Stoffel via Postfix-users wrote: >> >>> So what's the option for a more upto

[P-U] Re: Postfix lists are migrating to a new list server

> "mailmary---" == mailmary--- via Postfix-users > writes: > Unfortunately I've seen this crash as well, its actually quite > frequent in my case and I'm using a newer version of OpenDMARC than > you: > # opendmarc -V > opendmarc: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 > SMFI_VERSION 0x101

[pfx] Re: Anyone using SMTP relay through dnsexit.com?

> "Jim" == Jim Wright via Postfix-users writes: > Hey all.  Recently my ISP (Spectrum) decided (after this was working for > me for almost 20 years) to make it impossible for a self hosted domain > to relay through their SMTP server unless it was actually a spectrum.com > email address

[pfx] Re: 25 years today

> "Wietse" == Wietse Venema via Postfix-users > writes: > As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the > "IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied > by a nice article in the New York Times business section. As a recovering sendmail