Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wouxun Radio
What I see is they type accepted a radio that looks like that one but the type acceptance number issued does not necessarily mean the Ebay radios are unless they bear the type acceptance label... There are many models and not all may be approved... However... in any case.. if you are the importer for your own amateur radio use... Emissions are your amateur responsibility...ultimately... as we can build or modify whatever we want as long as our emissions are appropriate...re-selling without any type acceptance would seem to be questionable.. My hamfest committee thought about giving them out as hourly prizes... and my caution to them was own use vs distribution are 2 different issues on a non amateur type accepted radio.. If THESE particular one do have part 90 labels.. then using them on amateur ok and is a moot point.. distribution or otherwise.. but if they do not have labels.. using for own use would seem to be the limit.. as selling un-certified radios or even giving them away would seem to be not legal... I would be glad to hear if someone has purchased from one of these dealers and they ARE bearing part 90 labels... then my hamfest committee would be ok.. Doug KD8B On 8/29/2010 11:54 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: Phil, What FCC identification number did you use to find the Wouxun listing on the FCC site? I tried both the name and the model number, but came up with no listing at all. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kg6ziu Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:38 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wouxun Radio Terry, I wondered the same question about a year ago and discovered that they are type-accepted. Not that I would allow one on a system that I was in charge of for PS work. I looked on the FCC website and saw that they were... There is nothing saying that they can't be used on a HAM system though. Hope this helps, Phil KK6PE --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , terry dalpoas km...@... wrote: This may be a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway. I saw some dual band portables on eBay, new for about $100, made by Wouxun. I doubt very much they are FCC type accepted. Is it okay to use these on amateur frequencies? Thanks in advance. Terry, KM5UQ .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wouxun Radio
The amateur regulations allow you to use any technologically suitable radio on amateur frequencies that meets the emission criterion of our regulations.. You are ultimately responsible for those emissions and quality thereof.. so in a word.. yes... they would be legal on amateur frequencies if you import it from wherever for you own use... The rub is that if you import them for sale.. then they need to be type accepted in amateur to sell to amateurs if manufactured and imported for that purpose... Own use... you bear that responsibility... any form for sale.. the manufacturer and importer do... If for sale for commercial LMR.. that is what we were talking about for Part 90.. rules... where ppart 90 hooks back to us Any radio that is sold with part 90 acceptance is considered technologically suitable for use in our part 97 rules...although you are still responsible for any extraneous emissions. Sorry .. big circle.. but hope it connects the dots were were discussing... Doug On 8/29/2010 1:49 PM, Terry wrote: I would not want to put one on PS or commercial freqs, amateur only. Would it be OK for amateur? The only reason I ask is I do not want to put my amateur and GROL licenses in jeopardy (worked way to hard for them) if I purchase one and transmit on amateur frequencies. For PS and commercial (only when doing maintenance on one of their systems), I only use FCC approved equipment. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Doug, You make some very good points, but let's not forget that the proof of FCC approval is not merely a paper label stuck on the radio; there must be a TCB or TA grant published on the OET Web site that lists that specific radio by model number, emission, and frequency range. The FCC is currently investigating the influx from China of cheap portables bearing Puxing, Linton, HYT, and Wouxon brands- some of which have labels that read FCC TYPE ACCEPTED but without an FCC ID number, and no basis in fact of receiving a grant. Indeed, some of these radios share the same internals even though the outside cases are different. On the other hand, one particular brand and model may have different internals. I have a Puxing 777 that has a completely different mainboard from a friend's Puxing 777. We agree that licensed Amateur operators may use these cheap radios on Amateur frequencies without any legal issues. But, the notion that they may be used in Public Safety applications is disquieting. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wouxun Radio What I see is they type accepted a radio that looks like that one but the type acceptance number issued does not necessarily mean the Ebay radios are unless they bear the type acceptance label... There are many models and not all may be approved... However... in any case.. if you are the importer for your own amateur radio use... Emissions are your amateur responsibility...ultimately... as we can build or modify whatever we want as long as our emissions are appropriate...re-selling without any type acceptance would seem to be questionable.. My hamfest committee thought about giving them out as hourly prizes... and my caution to them was own use vs distribution are 2 different issues on a non amateur type accepted radio.. If THESE particular one do have part 90 labels.. then using them on amateur ok and is a moot point.. distribution or otherwise.. but if they do not have labels.. using for own use would seem to be the limit.. as selling un-certified radios or even giving them away would seem to be not legal... I would be glad to hear if someone has purchased from one of these dealers and they ARE bearing part 90 labels... then my hamfest committee would be ok.. Doug KD8B On 8/29/2010 11:54 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: Phil, What FCC identification number did you use to find the Wouxun listing on the FCC site? I tried both the name and the model number, but came up with no listing at all. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of kg6ziu Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:38 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wouxun Radio
Surely you do not mean to imply all of these models are type accepted under their certification grant under part 90?? as they are all KG-UV1DP The last 4 contain transmit frequencies that do not even come close to part 90 136-174350-470 MHz (RX/TX) 136-174400-480 MHz (RX/TX) 136-174420-520 MHz (RX/TX) 136-174400-470 MHz (RX/TX) 136-174245-250 MHz (RX/TX) 136-174216-280 MHz (RX/TX) 136-174225-226 MHz (RX/TX) 144-146430-440 MHz (RX/TX) Doug On 8/29/2010 5:06 PM, ochf13 wrote: WVTWOUXUN03 KG-699E WVTWOUXUN04 KG-UV1DP
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II Repeater Module
Drop the PL as it is not part of the recognized part number. and a zero is used in that part of the part number of a ge part.. 19D was followed by 6 numbers beginning with a 4 or 9 and then a G or a P and up to 3 more numbers. In this case 19D416660(zero)G6 And I get several google hits.. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II Repeater Module I have here a GE MASTR II Repeater XMTR Control Module p/n PL19D416660G6 REV A. I am more familiar with Micor Parts and Components - so I need a little guidance here. I recall seeing some MASTR dialogue recently, which is why I felt compelled to post here. Couple questions...On the p/n are the 0 (Zero) and O (Letter O) interchangable, does it matter? Just trying to figure out why Google doesnt turn anything up. Second question - are the modules band specific? Im currently looking through the TIP but I dont even know where to begin! THats the cool thing about RB.com - so much information :-) Thanks in advance! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn
Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt
From babelfish: Portugese to English... ola (Hola = Hello.. which I think is what he indicated.. ) to all somebody would have a simple project of a plate repeater controller that could control two radios of VHF and plus one link in UHF, being 2 gm300 and one maxtrac of motorola Doug KD8B On 8/22/2010 10:21 AM, Rodrigo Lima wrote: ola a todos alguem teria um esquema simples de uma placa controladora de repetidora que pudesse controlar dois radios de vhf e mais um link em uhf, sendo 2 gm300 e um maxtrac da motorola .obrigado (moderators note:) Can someone post a translation so that the non-spanish peakers can help this gentleman?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RE:Mastr II drift problem
There are 5C elements made for that exciter. you just do not have one.. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:01 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RE:Mastr II drift problem I was told that I should be using 5C for receive and transmit but the 5C will NOT fit on my PLL exciter. Any ideas? Steve W4SEF
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Mastr II Mobile Repeater?
As pointed out by earlier posts.. it is a UHF EXEC II 450-470 Synthesized TX and RX, DUPLEX RCC Mobile telephone chassis. Circa 1980-85 ish. Approx 35 watts into the duplexer, 25 out. The RCC version was RX on 454.025 and 11 steps up from there on 25 khz centers.. paired 5 mhz offset for TX We had a bunch of them. As RCC phones they were normally paired with Secode or Glenayre Control units of various signaling formats over time.. In the days of the EXEC II synthesized unit it was probably SMART SECODE signaling .. a parallel but similarly automated technology like IMTS which was the Bell system equivalent. Like any other Exec II YS55 is the family and power level . SSXX means synthesized ( it not channel limited per-se) range 88 was the UHF 450-470 split.. Channel selection was in Binary. not ground per channel like most Exec II's..although the binary was grounds.. It is most definitely not designed as a repeater.but it was duplex.. There were 2 channel block in those bands for such. one was assigned to TELCO's only ( all the Bell's at that time) and the other block was for private operators ( now generally referred to as CMRS ) that were RADIO COMMON CARRIERS or RCC's for short.. VHF and UHF versions of duplex Exec II's can be found. as they were used by both Bell System and RCCS.. I probably have a manual around in the archives somewhere.. Doug KD8B I'm sure Harris in Lynchburg VA will have that combination breakdown. They purchased MACOM, previously purchased Ericcson, GE, etc... Gentlemen (And Ladies) I have a MASTR II Exec mobile here, I think its a UHF Repeater. I want to confirm with you - but I am curious what RCC stands for. Comb number YS55SSXX88A. Nothing comes up on Google and not sure which Comb spec sheet to look this up with Hall Electronics or here on RB Archives. Thanks for your input! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RCC Exec II
Seems you crossed a few threads there.. RCC Exec II's came as synthesized or crystalled. The crystalled version had a 10 ?? channel board for elements.. the synthesized only had 2 but the rf parts were very different under the duplexer. The Crystalled version looked like a multi freq Exec II with a duplexer added on top. If the elements were erased, they were probably re-stuffed at some point.. maybe not original. The synthesized on had elements that looked like Mastr II Elements.. on large one and one smaller one as I recall. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:40 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mastr II drift problem Thanks Doug and everyone else! THe thing that tipped me off, was the sharpie note on it as RCC UHF - up until yesterday I had never encountered one of these. The topside half of the internal workings are what made me stop and pause when I took the cover off. Quite different from the other MASTR II's I was accustomed to seeing. The 7 rows in the channel element area all squished together, as well as the ICOMs installed in there. Someone asked to check for the crystals, and they are indeed there, the RX is 454.025 but whats unusual is that the TX elements do not have the frequencies listed on them. They do not appear to have been erased by hand, or scraped off - is that commonplace for units like these? Having fun learning about this now - makes me want to fire it up and toy around with it some! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Licensing Exam Info
As far as I am aware you still have to take your test in front of a team of V.E.'s. You may study online and take practice tests online.. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:44 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Licensing Exam Info Good Morning All - I am looking to take my Licensing exam and get my HAM / Radio Operator's license. I was told there was one online for about $80.00 but I don't have the first clue where to look. Is it somewhere on the ARRL web page, or somewhere else I need to be looking? Also - how long are the licenses good for? If you point me in the right direction - I can handle it from there. :-) Thanks! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn
Re: [Repeater-Builder] help and suggestions interference issues
If it is in fact D-Star...I would think the most likely cause would be someone analog-ly crossband repeating from a D-Star frequency into your input with the needed ctcss. To my knowledge, no Icom D-Star radio allows for ctcss along with the data as it would corrupt it. It could be done with a hybrid connection between digital and an analog programmed radio however I would say it would be intentionally malicious at that point as ctcss and D-Star do not mix.. Here is a link to an MP3 of what D-Star sounds like on an analog receiver. http://www.w2sjw.com/sounds/D-STAR.mp3 Doug KD8B terry_wx3m wrote: DSTAR is totally foreign to me. I can't think of anyone in the immediate area that even has a DSTAR capable radio. We are experiencing some interference on the input to one of our club repeaters. What baffles me is that the repeater is in PL (123.0). Is it possible that a DSTAR user in a neighboring area is inadvertently transmitting PL and getting into our machine? Also it would GREATLY help if someone had the capability of making me a short .wav clip of what DSTAR sounds like on an analog receiver. Thanks Terry wx3m.te...@gmail.com mailto:wx3m.terry%40gmail.com .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax shielding
At UHF, possibly, at VHF unlikely... you did not specify :-) How close are the frequencies??? Lots of details left out for us to help. If the freq's are within a few hundred kiloherts at vhf, antenna separation is probably the issue... More details please?? Doug KD8B kerincom wrote: Hi guys .I am just wanted to confirm a question on coax shielding . With 2-10 watts transmitting through rg213u could rf be escaping that could cause desensitization to other radios .The repeater I have setup uses 9 meters of heliax from the main diplexer to ant and rg213u from the link radio to its antenna . I am finding I am getting problems with the link transmission interfering with the repeater rx The link antenna is a yagi 3 meters above the ground and the main repeater antenna is 6 meters above it .I am currently trying band pass cavity on the receiver rx or band pass/band reject diplexer with some success but I am wondering if the rf escaping from the cable is causing problems inside the repeater shed even at a low wattage .I am definitely changing the rg213u to either rg223u or lmr400 as it is only on the link radio and shouldn't have any effect on the repeater's operation .Has anyone else had the same sort of problem where the rf energy leaks out of the cable in the shed and causes problems to the repeater and they had to upgrade the link cable to 100% coverage cable Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 3A Murchison Street,Biloela.4715 Ph 0749922449 or 0409159932 or 0749922574 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax shielding
Ian; It would seem that at uhf ~30mhz away cable leakage in the shed would seem to be less likely than antenna to antenna interference. In general it is the white noise generated by a transmitter on other frequencies that is most likely to cause desense to a co located rx. Assuming you have double shielded or better on the repeater, the leakage in the shed from the single shielded link radio would not seem to radiate enough to be an issue. If the radio side of the main duplexer is also rg213, well that is another matter :-) If you are using a notch only duplexer for the main duplexer, it would not protect you from another transmitter besides it's own.. Typical mobile type size duplexers at UHF are really only designed to protect the rx from it's local tx, any other can slip right in.. I would try a notch filter ( or half a notch duplexer ) on the link tx to suppress the station rx frequency from it's output.. that noise is probably the culprit.. As said by others, good double shielded cables and /or 100 % corrugated types are suggested in sites with multiple transmitters to deal with.. but most on site desense I have dealt with from other transmitters comes from one of 2 things.. raw power front end overload of the rx when the antennas can see each other... or white noise generated on broad frequencies from an unfiltered transmitter. I am suggesting a notch cavity on the 517 transmitter output that notches 478.675 in this case.. 3 slugs ( one side) on a mobile duplexer will suppress that noise ~65db, and provide no significant insertion loss to the link tx..And double shielded cables like RG142 for radio to filter connections is perfectly adequate up to 520 mhz and beyond... with isolation to -120dbm at a minimum.. Doug KD8B kerincom wrote: Uhf the link is 517mhz and the repeater TX/rx pair is 473.475 and 478.675mhz on one repeater and it is in a weak area with the main site so it has to transmitt aprox 10 watts kerincom wrote: Hi guys .I am just wanted to confirm a question on coax shielding . With 2-10 watts transmitting through rg213u could rf be escaping that could cause desensitization to other radios .The repeater I have setup uses 9 meters of heliax from the main diplexer to ant and rg213u from the link radio to its antenna . I am finding I am getting problems with the link transmission interfering with the repeater rx The link antenna is a yagi 3 meters above the ground and the main repeater antenna is 6 meters above it .I am currently trying band pass cavity on the receiver rx or band pass/band reject diplexer with some success but I am wondering if the rf escaping from the cable is causing problems inside the repeater shed even at a low wattage .I am definitely changing the rg213u to either rg223u or lmr400 as it is only on the link radio and shouldn't have any effect on the repeater's operation .Has anyone else had the same sort of problem where the rf energy leaks out of the cable in the shed and causes problems to the repeater and they had to upgrade the link cable to 100% coverage cable
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax shielding
In theory most xtal radios are quieter than synthesized ones, but a filter would seem to be the better thing to do as it really stops the problem...even a bandpass can or 2 on the link radio would be acceptable if a notch is not available.. I just offered a notch duplexer option as they can be bought sub 150.00 usd... and probably a lot less off ebay.. I would fix the noise potential rather than swap the tx for another model.. but I have different options available to me than maybe you do... If the site were at a remote location for me.. I try to make it bulletproof so I do not have to deal with it.. :-) Doug kerincom wrote: Would it be better to change the link radio to crystal instead of programmed .It is currently a tait t2010 Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 3A Murchison Street,Biloela.4715 Ph 0749922449 or 0409159932 or 0749922574 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/ /---Original Message---/ /*From:*/ Doug Bade mailto:k...@thebades.net /*Date:*/ 6/28/2010 1:44:27 AM /*To:*/ Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com /*Subject:*/ Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax shielding Ian; It would seem that at uhf ~30mhz away cable leakage in the shed would seem to be less likely than antenna to antenna interference. In general it is the white noise generated by a transmitter on other frequencies that is most likely to cause desense to a co located rx. Assuming you have double shielded or better on the repeater, the leakage in the shed from the single shielded link radio would not seem to radiate enough to be an issue. If the radio side of the main duplexer is also rg213, well that is another matter :-) If you are using a notch only duplexer for the main duplexer, it would not protect you from another transmitter besides it's own.. Typical mobile type size duplexers at UHF are really only designed to protect the rx from it's local tx, any other can slip right in.. I would try a notch filter ( or half a notch duplexer ) on the link tx to suppress the station rx frequency from it's output.. that noise is probably the culprit.. As said by others, good double shielded cables and /or 100 % corrugated types are suggested in sites with multiple transmitters to deal with.. but most on site desense I have dealt with from other transmitters comes from one of 2 things.. raw power front end overload of the rx when the antennas can see each other... or white noise generated on broad frequencies from an unfiltered transmitter. I am suggesting a notch cavity on the 517 transmitter output that notches 478.675 in this case.. 3 slugs ( one side) on a mobile duplexer will suppress that noise ~65db, and provide no significant insertion loss to the link tx..And double shielded cables like RG142 for radio to filter connections is perfectly adequate up to 520 mhz and beyond... with isolation to -120dbm at a minimum.. Doug KD8B kerincom wrote: Uhf the link is 517mhz and the repeater TX/rx pair is 473.475 and 478.675mhz on one repeater and it is in a weak area with the main site so it has to transmitt aprox 10 watts kerincom wrote: Hi guys .I am just wanted to confirm a question on coax shielding . With 2-10 watts transmitting through rg213u could rf be escaping that could cause desensitization to other radios .The repeater I have setup uses 9 meters of heliax from the main diplexer to ant and rg213u from the link radio to its antenna . I am finding I am getting problems with the link transmission interfering with the repeater rx The link antenna is a yagi 3 meters above the ground and the main repeater antenna is 6 meters above it .I am currently trying band pass cavity on the receiver rx or band pass/band reject diplexer with some success but I am wondering if the rf escaping from the cable is causing problems inside the repeater shed even at a low wattage .I am definitely changing the rg213u to either rg223u or lmr400 as it is only on the link radio and shouldn't have any effect on the repeater's operation .Has anyone else had the same sort of problem where the rf energy leaks out of the cable in the shed and causes problems to the repeater and they had to upgrade the link cable to 100% coverage cable
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax shielding
While your logic is good on this, a Pass/Reject would help THAT transmitter be more friendly to other receivers... and protect from raw RF overload from other near-but-not-on-frequency transmitters... but the noise geration issue ( part 2 of my general site comments) needs to be plugged up on the tx that is causing itso filters need to be on the link TX itself... especially if you want to keep the link frequency agile.. the proposed notch filters would allow the link to be moved if you needed, as long as you stay at least 1 mhz away from the notched 478 frequency... Now.. if there are ever more receivers on site, those cases will need to be addressed with better filtering or antenna spacing :-) Doug kerincom wrote: That's what I thought as I am currently using a 6ld450s notch diplexer and should change it to a band pass/band reject diplexer .I tried a experiment on site where I added 1 cavity inline with the receiver 478.675 and it seemed to improve the problem .so that was going to be the next step but I thought I might see what the thoughts were on the coax leaking Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 3A Murchison Street,Biloela.4715 Ph 0749922449 or 0409159932 or 0749922574 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/ /---Original Message---/ /*From:*/ Doug Bade mailto:k...@thebades.net /*Date:*/ 6/28/2010 1:44:27 AM /*To:*/ Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com /*Subject:*/ Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax shielding Ian; It would seem that at uhf ~30mhz away cable leakage in the shed would seem to be less likely than antenna to antenna interference. In general it is the white noise generated by a transmitter on other frequencies that is most likely to cause desense to a co located rx. Assuming you have double shielded or better on the repeater, the leakage in the shed from the single shielded link radio would not seem to radiate enough to be an issue. If the radio side of the main duplexer is also rg213, well that is another matter :-) If you are using a notch only duplexer for the main duplexer, it would not protect you from another transmitter besides it's own.. Typical mobile type size duplexers at UHF are really only designed to protect the rx from it's local tx, any other can slip right in.. I would try a notch filter ( or half a notch duplexer ) on the link tx to suppress the station rx frequency from it's output.. that noise is probably the culprit.. As said by others, good double shielded cables and /or 100 % corrugated types are suggested in sites with multiple transmitters to deal with.. but most on site desense I have dealt with from other transmitters comes from one of 2 things.. raw power front end overload of the rx when the antennas can see each other... or white noise generated on broad frequencies from an unfiltered transmitter. I am suggesting a notch cavity on the 517 transmitter output that notches 478.675 in this case.. 3 slugs ( one side) on a mobile duplexer will suppress that noise ~65db, and provide no significant insertion loss to the link tx..And double shielded cables like RG142 for radio to filter connections is perfectly adequate up to 520 mhz and beyond... with isolation to -120dbm at a minimum.. Doug KD8B kerincom wrote: Uhf the link is 517mhz and the repeater TX/rx pair is 473.475 and 478.675mhz on one repeater and it is in a weak area with the main site so it has to transmitt aprox 10 watts kerincom wrote: Hi guys .I am just wanted to confirm a question on coax shielding . With 2-10 watts transmitting through rg213u could rf be escaping that could cause desensitization to other radios .The repeater I have setup uses 9 meters of heliax from the main diplexer to ant and rg213u from the link radio to its antenna . I am finding I am getting problems with the link transmission interfering with the repeater rx The link antenna is a yagi 3 meters above the ground and the main repeater antenna is 6 meters above it .I am currently trying band pass cavity on the receiver rx or band pass/band reject diplexer with some success but I am wondering if the rf escaping from the cable is causing problems inside the repeater shed even at a low wattage .I am definitely changing the rg213u to either rg223u or lmr400 as it is only on the link radio and shouldn't have any effect on the repeater's operation .Has anyone else had the same sort of problem where the rf energy leaks out of the cable in the shed and causes problems to the repeater and they had to upgrade the link cable to 100% coverage cable
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor COS issues.... continuing
Josh; You could also use a 2n7000 fet in place of the 2n device in that circuit.. 2n700 FET's have an on trigger of between 2-4 volts. as the switch point and switch like an npn transistor for this app.. the input does not require a resistor ( the gate )as it can swing to ~12v before destruction becomes an issue. you can limit it if you want but the gate resistance is in the meg ohm region. it is all but a dc switch for this application. I had 2 Spectras converted to a repeater I was working on last week and had the same issue of about .8 volt to 8. I put a silicon rectifier 1n4002 type diode in series, anode to the cor of the station, cathode to the controller and then put a pull down-to-ground resistor on the cathode end to really hard pull to ground.. about 1k or so.. switching at that point became effectively zero to 8v. My controller was happy Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Cicirello Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 12:43 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor COS issues continuing Hi Josh, Instead of resistors, try diodes in series. Each Diode will drop your voltage. I have series a couple to get rid of standing voltage, especially if you are down to a half volt or so. 73 JIM On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Josh josh.kit...@gmail.com wrote: I've been fighting this issue for a while now. I've tried some bandaids to deal with it, tried multiple repeater controllers (including one I designed myself with an ATMEGA328 Microcontroller (I'll probably be releasing this design as open source coming up)... and I'm fighting the same problem everywhere... My micor COS signal is weird. When the squelch is closed, I get right around 8 volts, taken from pin 8 of the modified mobile audio/squelch board - the tried and true process just about everybody uses. When the squelch opens, I'm at not ground potential, but right about half a volt. This isnt really the sort of logic signal I want (I want this thing to be dead nuts zero, not half a volt). What is the deal here? I've tried adding resistors in series to fudge things and cause voltage drop, but thats not really even working that well. I've tried the 2n circuit, but that doesnt really have a lot to do with this (although a variation of that might come into play I suspect) How do I best solve this so I can get my repeater on the air?? This is very close to the last issue I have remaining to solve. Help / advice is greatly appreciated. Josh -- Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Racom Station Identifier
I used to work for them, they are still active.albeit smaller..Racom Products 216-351-1755 Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mzfb2001 Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 5:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Racom Station Identifier Hi all I have a Racom 1300 morse code station Identifier. I am looking to see if there is a way to reprogram the Prom in the unit. The company is no longer active. The prom contains the call sign information. I know I could throw it in the trash and buy something new but I hate doing that when all it would take is to reprogram the Prom. Is there a way to read the prom and then change the information in it and then program a new prom provided I can find a new one. Thanks in advance Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How much gain or how much loss on the PD220-3A
Someone ( WD8CHL JIM ) wrote some documentation up about using a Co-linear from a higher freq on a lower freq... and angle of radiation lowered as I recall but gain did not change... It actually can be favorable depending on the site as I recall.. I think it was Jim anyhow.. forgive me if I offered a wrong author :-)...who penned some information on moving commercial colinear to amateur and some sleeving was needed bring the feed point back to 50 ohms... but no other mods were done that I recall... Doug KD8B WA3GIN wrote: Hi folks, I'm curious about this question of operating the Station Master 10Mhz off resonant frequency. The antenna seems to be working fine from observed performance but that could just be the 425ft ASL in an area where average elevation is 30ftASL. I've searched the WEB but haven't yet found a reference that would ascertain the performance of the antenna. Should I presume unity gain on 146. from an antenna with 5db gain at 156.Mhz? Thoughts welcome, dave wa3gin Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tait T800 S1 Eprom Problems
I had bought and sold about 20 of the 900 mhz Tait's. Mine were 10 mhz based and I converted them to 12.8 mhz reference... In the tait software I used there was a provision to specify a lot of stuff including generating a list of channels based on a step size from an origin up to x channels. I need to dig out my software asn such. I also PDF'd the manuals for the TX and RX. If I can find those I can forward them. I am not finding them on my main desktop, I think they are on my ham computer in the basement. I will look later... Doug tait700 wrote: Thanks Doug, When i programmed the chip and installed it onto the board i set up the 8 Dip switches to agree with the 127 channel coding positions. The original chip had the Channel 1 freq with 8 + 1 dip switches off on the eprom board and this is where i have placed the new frequency, keeping the same dip positions. The only other option that PGM800 offers is the channel step ( 12.5 mhz ) and this appears to be non adjustable in the software. If you could elaborate on the reference oscillator issue i would be grateful, is this a software controlled adjustment or a hardware adjustment somewhere in the Synth section on the main board. Regards, --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Doug Bade k...@... wrote: If you have the wrong reference oscillator selected, it will create steps that are invalid.. and thus syth unlock.. The ref osc for factory standalone units is based on 12.8 mhz but there is an optional 10.0 mhz ref osc.. and it can be external or internal. The PLL steps are calculated from that osc and the desired step size. You also need to select a channel in the channel switches that is occupied, it can be from 1-64 and the prom needs to be programmed accordingly.. Doug Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Tait T800 S1 Eprom Problems
If you have the wrong reference oscillator selected, it will create steps that are invalid.. and thus syth unlock.. The ref osc for factory standalone units is based on 12.8 mhz but there is an optional 10.0 mhz ref osc.. and it can be external or internal. The PLL steps are calculated from that osc and the desired step size. You also need to select a channel in the channel switches that is occupied, it can be from 1-64 and the prom needs to be programmed accordingly.. Doug tait700 wrote: Hi, Was wondering if anyone had any knowledge or experience of any bugs when burning a new Eprom for one of the above units ? I can compose the new .Bin file correctly using PGM800 Win ( i think ) and send it to the Eprom burner that is telling me when it is finished that it is copied correctly to the chip ( via Verify ) but when the chip is installed on the eprom board and fitted to the tx module i have no VCO lock = no transmit. I have tried adjusting the VCO trimmer but cannot get it to lock with the new chip installed. I have added one other frequency to the original one that was on the original chip ( up exactly 10 mhz ) but it will not lock with either the original Channel freq or the new one on the new chip. The original Chip worked fine with the one that was on there and comparing the .bin file from this and the new one both look the same when opened with PGM800. I have read the previous posts on this board about creating a new eprom but if i have done something wrong i cannot see what it is. Any info or advice would be much appreciated, Unit in question is a T881 850 - 930 mhz Regards, Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] question for Group on Mastr III
Any preamp like advanced receiver research would be suitable assuming one was needed. I have never seen a Mastr III that needs a preamp. unless maybe a tower top amp to recover feedline loss.. The front end has an awful low noise figure to start with.. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Landers Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] question for Group on Mastr III Hello everyone Would like to know for a report if there is such a item available. I need to know if there is a preamp for receive for a G.E. Mastr III vhf in ham band 146.xxx. This is part of a recommendation I need to submit and you guys know the answer a lot faster than me trying to find it . Thanks Joe Landers Ke4eue image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Trojan Horse
Avast went RED here too.. I have never seen it do that. Blocked a Trojan on connect.. dropped the site. not from google search.. direct from the hyperlink Jim posted.I would say it is real.. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Cicirello Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:52 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Trojan Horse Kevin and moderators. I have been reading about problems getting onto repeater-builder.com. This morning my Avast flagged the site with the following. Malware, JS:llredir.AO tr TROGAN HORSE VPS Verision 100412-0, 4/12/2010. You probably already have the info. but wanted to make sure. KA2AJH -- Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655 image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star (Protocol and Repeaters)
There are several. Harris- OpenSky, P25 Phase 2 are currently being deployed, and Iden ( Nextel ) Motorola has a version for municipals. I do not know if anyone ever built it but I saw it on proposals a few years back. It almost sounds like you're talking about a trunked (multi-site) system though, and I don't know of any trunked TDMA-based commercial offerings in the 2-way radio market. Anyone else heard of one? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com mailto:nate%40natetech.com Welcome http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15o3dc40l/M=493064.13814537.13965224.10835568/D =groups/S=1705063108:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1270628897/L=c0e38d88-420e-11df-b597-5 fb6cdd9016b/B=cEt5A2KJiV0-/J=1270621697815987/K=fQ4TlPwyAsbwR0xV0iWe7Q/A=604 2764/R=0/SIG=11jbo19n3/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/momconnection to Mom Connection! Share stories, news and more with moms like you. Image removed by sender. _ Hobbies http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ogdepgv/M=493064.14012770.13963757.13298430/D =groups/S=1705063108:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1270628897/L=c0e38d88-420e-11df-b597-5 fb6cdd9016b/B=cUt5A2KJiV0-/J=1270621697815987/K=fQ4TlPwyAsbwR0xV0iWe7Q/A=601 5306/R=0/SIG=11vlkvigg/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/hobbiesandactivit ieszone/ Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests. Image removed by sender. http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjOG84dGViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwN DE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNzA2MjE2OTc- Image removed by sender. Yahoo! Groups Switch to: mailto:repeater-builder-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change%20delive ry%20Format:%20Traditional Text-Only, mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email%20delivery:%20 Digest Daily Digest . mailto:repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribe Unsubscribe . http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Use . Image removed by sender. image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star (Protocol and Repeaters)
John; There is indeed resistance to change. there are factions even in the D-Star Camp. Control of the network is being wrestled about in 2 separate networks that split. Be that as it may . We have the luxury of taking advantage of some really impressive reverse engineering that has been going on and does allow for adding an adapter to a suitable repeater to make it handle digital voice.. with D-Star voice protocols. For what many analog controllers cost. or less. Folks who want to make the digital move need to evaluate what they intend to do with their repeater. D-Star and P-25 have some ups and downs of each.. In P25 there are no simple implementations of wide area networking engineered into the CAI.. So routing calls to multiple repeaters is not easy. D-Star has routing in it but it is one of the complications many complain about as it is not real intuitive on how to program it all to get the desired results. Standalone Repeater options for either are fairly simple. At this point assuming you have a digital capable station.. I think it just became cheaper to do D-star conversion of that station. At least one author is working diligently to allow both analog and digital use of the Digital repeater modification he wrote and offers.. but it is in it's infancy.. Anyone who is currently building analog AllStar Link repeaters using a DMK URI already has the parts for a D-Star repeater .. assuming your TX and RX will handle GMSK data of your repeater.. This includes many Mastr II stations which seem to be a large portion of the amateur repeater world.. Cheap sound card interfaces..$ 10.00 each on Ebay or less can be used to build the controller when hooked to a PC with appropriate software.. I built my first Test D-Star repeater from 2 Icom F420 commercial mobiles and 2 USB Sound Fobs with a USB I/O controller to run the cor and PTT.. It works.. albeit basic. but is not the key ingredient now. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Szwarc Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star (Protocol and Repeaters) Okay. I've been reading with some interest the threads on D-STAR. There have been some very good points and some pretty amusing ones. P25 sounds interesting, but you will have to take note of the fact that it has not been widely accepted by the ham community. And considering that it (P25) is not compatible with D-STAR's AMBE codec, I doubt that it will be accepted by hams anytime soon. Who cares if D-STAR takes up repeater pairs that could be used for analog? Have you listened to the analog repeaters? They're mostly silent anyway. One comment that I read early on (and I don't recall who said this) was that in an emergency the analog users would not be able to access a D-STAR repeater. Yep, but so what? Do you really mean to tell me that each local area is covered by just one analog repeater? It just sounds to me like typical human behavior: resistance to change. There's a good friend of mine that was so ticked off at the institution of no-code hams. He calls them rif-raff. He operates almost exclusively on the CW sections of the HF bands to avoid the no-code folks. It's sad because there are a lot of no-code hams that are good operators and some are very technically knowledgeable. He might learn a thing or two from these folks. I wonder if the people in this group that are resisting D-STAR are missing the boat as well. Maybe there is something they could learn from D-STAR? Maybe they could find ways to to improve it? Of course that won't happen if they are too busy trying to talk people out of it in favor of P25 or old fashioned analog. Just my 2 cents. I'll go back to my corner now. John N3SPW _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 4:01 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star (Protocol and Repeaters)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star (Protocol and Repeaters)
Both GMSK modem and DMK URI provide a shaped and limited waveform that can be directly FM'ed at what is easily set to 1.8khz +/- typical... ( this is what the Icom stations use) the waveform is cleaner out of my station than the Icom D-Star radio keying it and filtering is better out of the station. Excessive deviation really annoys Icom's D-Star radios so not much slop is tolerated. Deviation above ~2k is a problem as the receiving radios start having issues. We have no currently mandated amateur initiative for 12k5 (11k0f3e) let alone 6k25 (6K00F3E/2D/2E) so I am not losing a lot of sleep with my 12k5/25k0 switchable receiver running in 25k0 mode...My repeater council authorized spectrum allocation is a 25k0 spec channel.. The GMSK modems and URI's do not seem to care as of now.. so I am planning on dealing with narrowband RX hardware down the road...Hardware narrowband filters are much more problematical in flatness and ringing... etc... What we really need is DSP based second IF's.. I suspect with HPSDR and other similar projects.. in the not too distant future...we could and will come up with an 11.2 mhz (or whatever is needed for a particular station... ) DSP based second IF with direct sampling hardware... just like, for one, GE ( Harris) does for P25.. I think it will come sooner than later. We are, after all, part 97.. not part 90 here.. My R D budget is a lot less than Icom or Motorola... but if we do not try... we never will get there...as has been said before..necessity is the mother of invention... In my state we authorize 25k0 modulation on 12k5 centers in non overlapping areas of operation... both use 16k0f3e deviation masks so I am not really worried about trying to set 6k25's adjacent TODAY... For now I think we are safe using 12k5 channel masks and channel centers for coordination ...and operate there on 6k25's and we will worry about getting closer as equipment gets better... As has been pointed out by others.. we have lots of non used repeaters.. In most of the US..we are not really in a spectrum crunch.. we are in a political crunch to figure out what constitutes underutilized and how to-be-recovered pairs can be returned for re-use. For the most part.. in amateur...6k25 is necessary only because it is the D-Star SPEC... not because we have that great of spectrum issues in most of the country..technology will catch up as need arises...and I do not think most places we are there yet. Doug KD8B Jeff DePolo wrote: Anyone who is currently building analog AllStar Link repeaters using a DMK URI already has the parts for a D-Star repeater .. assuming your TX and RX will handle GMSK data of your repeater.. This includes many Mastr II stations which seem to be a large portion of the amateur repeater world.. What are people doing about narrowbanding the RF hardware? There's no geo-spectral advantage to be gained by using D-Star/GMSK with a theoretical OBW of 6 kHz when the RF equipment is still wideband (mainly Rx IF, but also Tx must also be limited and LPF'ed). --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor
I am in the process of deploying a home built 70cm Mastr III conversion to D-Star. It is quite capable of doing both with existing technology. I do not CHOOSE to do both.. but it can.. It also does analog enough to do diagnostics on it which is a bit of an improvement over Icom's digital only.. I do have a discriminator and cor point to watch when I send an rx signal in.. J Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor My biggest problem with the D-Star repeaters is that they didn't make them analog compatible. Knowing as little as I do about the D-star hardware, it would seem easy enough for Icom to have done so. All they would have needed to do would have been to look at the incoming signal, see if it was analog or digital, and process it correctly. While you'll pry my analog repeater pairs from my cold dead hands; if D-Star machines were analog capable, I'd swap every pair I have to that format tomorrow. As RB (the company) I have been asked about D-star more times than I can count. I tell people it's nice to play with, but what happens in an emergency? If Icom would have made the D-star machines analog capable, those that wanted to (and had D-star radios) could play with it all they wanted to. When an emergency arose and you had 10x as many people out there with analog rigs, the machine would *still* be useful. As it is at present, if an emergency arises, only those with D-star rigs can use a D-star machine. That concept is fine, as long as ALL of your volunteers have D-Star radios! (How many places is this the case?) Around here (Western PA) the governments bought Icom D-Star radios for RACES. I had no objection to that since those radios can be used in analog modes with analog repeaters. Now they are wanting to get D-Star repeaters for RACES and emergency use. I *strongly* object to that since they CANNOT be used in analog modes for emergencies. In my view, you'd be alienating much of your volunteer base that doesn't have the correct equipment right at the point where you need all the help you can get! Of course with the government in the mentality that they have been in the past few years, maybe that's their way of thinning the heard. I *think* I remember someone saying that some other company had made an analog capable D-Star controller? Do any of you list members know anything about that? Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Nate Duehr wrote: On 4/1/2010 9:57 PM, George Henry wrote: I suppose I should clarify: I don't do D-STAR, either. Moral objection to their use of a proprietary codec. You're going to be a while on that soap box. CODECs are almost literally the only way to make any money in the audio streaming, video streaming, and related technology worlds these days... mixed with Patents, you won't see any high-quality free CODECs that can properly encode voice at 4800 bps any time soon. DVSI has ALL of that market locked up until someone hires a pile of PhD's in math and goes after them. And even then, they'd have to make a significant impact on bandwidth utilized or voice quality over either AMBE/AMBE2, or IMBE... to have a chance of dislodging the first player to market... the only player to be written into multiple standards (P25, D-STAR, even the TDMA-based things from Kenwood/Icom... all using DVSI chipsets.) Brilliant of them really... heavily patent-encumbered CODEC, super-high price on using the CODEC in software, sell a $20 (in low-quantity, slightly cheaper in high-quanity) chipset, in a market as small as 2-way radio... they're making a bloody killing. I'd love to know what the development costs of the CODECs were... to see just how lucrative their lock on the market(s) is. But anyway... good luck finding a commercial product that doesn't use their chipset anytime soon. The next CODEC chipset maker is going to be an also-ran forever, unless their mathematicians and algorithms are uber-brilliant. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor
I would be glad to elaborate about D-Star Repeater conversions as there are multiple ways to do it now and Any EDACS capable or Smartnet Capable repeater would do D-Star as both fundamentally have the parts to transmit and receive GMSK type waveforms There are several Yahoogroups that are focused on alternate D-Star hardware and software devices. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor My biggest problem with the D-Star repeaters is that they didn't make them analog compatible. Knowing as little as I do about the D-star hardware, it would seem easy enough for Icom to have done so. All they would have needed to do would have been to look at the incoming signal, see if it was analog or digital, and process it correctly. While you'll pry my analog repeater pairs from my cold dead hands; if D-Star machines were analog capable, I'd swap every pair I have to that format tomorrow. As RB (the company) I have been asked about D-star more times than I can count. I tell people it's nice to play with, but what happens in an emergency? If Icom would have made the D-star machines analog capable, those that wanted to (and had D-star radios) could play with it all they wanted to. When an emergency arose and you had 10x as many people out there with analog rigs, the machine would *still* be useful. As it is at present, if an emergency arises, only those with D-star rigs can use a D-star machine. That concept is fine, as long as ALL of your volunteers have D-Star radios! (How many places is this the case?) Around here (Western PA) the governments bought Icom D-Star radios for RACES. I had no objection to that since those radios can be used in analog modes with analog repeaters. Now they are wanting to get D-Star repeaters for RACES and emergency use. I *strongly* object to that since they CANNOT be used in analog modes for emergencies. In my view, you'd be alienating much of your volunteer base that doesn't have the correct equipment right at the point where you need all the help you can get! Of course with the government in the mentality that they have been in the past few years, maybe that's their way of thinning the heard. I *think* I remember someone saying that some other company had made an analog capable D-Star controller? Do any of you list members know anything about that? Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Nate Duehr wrote: On 4/1/2010 9:57 PM, George Henry wrote: I suppose I should clarify: I don't do D-STAR, either. Moral objection to their use of a proprietary codec. You're going to be a while on that soap box. CODECs are almost literally the only way to make any money in the audio streaming, video streaming, and related technology worlds these days... mixed with Patents, you won't see any high-quality free CODECs that can properly encode voice at 4800 bps any time soon. DVSI has ALL of that market locked up until someone hires a pile of PhD's in math and goes after them. And even then, they'd have to make a significant impact on bandwidth utilized or voice quality over either AMBE/AMBE2, or IMBE... to have a chance of dislodging the first player to market... the only player to be written into multiple standards (P25, D-STAR, even the TDMA-based things from Kenwood/Icom... all using DVSI chipsets.) Brilliant of them really... heavily patent-encumbered CODEC, super-high price on using the CODEC in software, sell a $20 (in low-quantity, slightly cheaper in high-quanity) chipset, in a market as small as 2-way radio... they're making a bloody killing. I'd love to know what the development costs of the CODECs were... to see just how lucrative their lock on the market(s) is. But anyway... good luck finding a commercial product that doesn't use their chipset anytime soon. The next CODEC chipset maker is going to be an also-ran forever, unless their mathematicians and algorithms are uber-brilliant. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder]D-Star conversion of existing Repeaters
I have built both sound device/software versions of the repeater and hardware modem/software versions and both are operational however Linux support is behind Windows support on the software side. Not for the lack of trying of the authors. There are internal Linux issues at hand.. that are in the middle of operational issues. They are being fixed so I would call a lot of that still Alpha to Beta. but in XP is ready to work assuming you can do your part on the hardware side. Some of us would rather deploy site computers as Linux.. but that is currently admin level deployment level today and not really ready for the masses unless you are tolerant of bugs. XP will do in the mean time albeit less than optimal solution in my book.. I will be glad to post my results as I can but I tend to post on the digital yahoo groups associated with the project as I assume here is not the appropriate place for such. While it is a repeater and I am a builder it is a focused technical subject most analog builders have little interest in. as seen in some negative comments whenever D-Star is brought up. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor Doug, you have my sympathy and admiration.. for hanging in there to marry those two worlds. I follow one of the yahoo groups hoping the little module becomes more user friendly for installation into a motorola 5000 or micor. The reluctance is the module, I want it working and bullet proof before tackling the varables of installation. The hardware (and firmware) seems only now taking the quantum leaf out of betaville. I am watching with baited breath.. . Bill Atlanta w4oo . . --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Doug Bade k...@... wrote: I would be glad to elaborate about D-Star Repeater conversions as there are multiple ways to do it now and Any EDACS capable or Smartnet Capable repeater would do D-Star as both fundamentally have the parts to transmit and receive GMSK type waveforms There are several Yahoogroups that are focused on alternate D-Star hardware and software devices. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 8:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor My biggest problem with the D-Star repeaters is that they didn't make them analog compatible. Knowing as little as I do about the D-star hardware, it would seem easy enough for Icom to have done so. All they would have needed to do would have been to look at the incoming signal, see if it was analog or digital, and process it correctly. While you'll pry my analog repeater pairs from my cold dead hands; if D-Star machines were analog capable, I'd swap every pair I have to that format tomorrow. As RB (the company) I have been asked about D-star more times than I can count. I tell people it's nice to play with, but what happens in an emergency? If Icom would have made the D-star machines analog capable, those that wanted to (and had D-star radios) could play with it all they wanted to. When an emergency arose and you had 10x as many people out there with analog rigs, the machine would *still* be useful. As it is at present, if an emergency arises, only those with D-star rigs can use a D-star machine. That concept is fine, as long as ALL of your volunteers have D-Star radios! (How many places is this the case?) Around here (Western PA) the governments bought Icom D-Star radios for RACES. I had no objection to that since those radios can be used in analog modes with analog repeaters. Now they are wanting to get D-Star repeaters for RACES and emergency use. I *strongly* object to that since they CANNOT be used in analog modes for emergencies. In my view, you'd be alienating much of your volunteer base that doesn't have the correct equipment right at the point where you need all the help you can get! Of course with the government in the mentality that they have been in the past few years, maybe that's their way of thinning the heard. I *think* I remember someone saying that some other company had made an analog capable D-Star controller? Do any of you list members know anything about that? Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Nate Duehr wrote: On 4/1/2010 9:57 PM, George Henry wrote: I suppose I should clarify: I don't do D-STAR, either. Moral objection
Re: [Repeater-Builder]D-Star conversion of existing Repeaters
I guess it depends on how you want to set it up. As a standalone repeater it needs no internet connection. if you want to use connectivity to other systems, you need and internet connection and it can or not not be behind a firewall depending on your skill and/or expertise in securing same... In reality they work just fine behind a firewall as only one UDP port needs to be port forwarded to process inbound network traffic.. Outbound and inbound connection related traffic is TCPIP which NAT handles fine... Now I am in particular speaking of alternate implementations of hardware on alternate systems.. Not Icom's Implementation of Icom hardware and servers.. I have a general knowledge of those but do not currently own same. Digital voice repeating using D-Star Voice protocols will soon be possible without needing a PC.. but right now that is what is needed.. subject to change in days.. not weeks.. as it is soon to be released or maybe is already... The internet side is where PC based software is needed to handle packet streams..in and out. Some folks have implemented bent pipe repeaters for P25 and D-Star but coupling the discriminator to the tx mod line is not an optimal repeater.. What is currently done with GMSK modems etc.. is strip off the digital GMSK signals in the discriminator and break them down to headers and payload and generate a new transmitted repeated signal with correct headers and ID's etc.. as well as separate them for UDP transit on the internet to destinations determined by the user..At this time a PC is used to decipher the data that comes out of the modem chip in a USB stream... is repackaged and routed as needed by the PC ... including back to the repeater transmitter.. A particular GMSK modem board or maybe even 2 versions will soon be able to repeat on the modem board without need of a PC... Both hardware/software authors of GMSK modem boards are working on this... Doug KD8B Doug KD8B La Rue Communications wrote: Does the Linux / XP box need to be behind a firewall in order to prevent unauthorized access to the boxes? Or are these boxes completely separate from any internet access? Im a computer expert, but not a radio expert..yet. :) John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - *From:* Doug Bade mailto:k...@thebades.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, April 02, 2010 8:26 AM *Subject:* RE: [Repeater-Builder]D-Star conversion of existing Repeaters I have built both sound device/software versions of the repeater and hardware modem/software versions and both are operational however Linux support is behind Windows support on the software side. Not for the lack of trying of the authors… There are internal Linux issues at hand.. that are in the middle of operational “issues”. They are being fixed so I would call a lot of that still Alpha to Beta… but in XP is ready to work assuming you can do your part on the hardware side… Some of us would rather deploy site computers as Linux.. but that is currently admin level deployment level today and not really ready for the masses unless you are tolerant of “bugs”. XP will do in the mean time albeit less than optimal solution in my book.. I will be glad to post my results as I can but I tend to post on the digital yahoo groups associated with the project as I assume here is not the appropriate place for such… While it is a “repeater” and I am a “builder” it is a focused technical subject most analog builders have little interest in… as seen in some negative comments whenever D-Star is brought up. Doug KD8B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] D-Star Was: Molotora Gontor
I do not know that it needs to be handled... The day we have enough D-Star repeaters and users on the air that an out of town DX signal trips mine I will be tickled to death... not complainBecause JRRL did not put an equivalent to CTCSS or DSQ in the system does not make it need repair... APCO P25 and Smartnet P25 ( as well as EDACS AEGIS ) for the last 10+ years uses a codec/vocoder that is inferior to D-Star (IMBE vs AMBE)... does that make it broken??? No .. just not perfect :-) We still use it. We just live with it and work around it.. It DOES mean try and do better in the next generation.. IE P25 Phase II... If that is the greatest failing we have in a totally amateur digital system... it does not seem to be a big issue to meWith 6k25 emissions we can carve up the band pretty tight on adjacents to keep overlap contours to a minimum from adjacent service areas. Sounds like a coordination issue.. not a technological failing... we do it on 12k5's now.. we can do it on 6k25's next... Yes... Icom oversold it.. but 6k25 does quite well as long as you use reasonable dbu contours to protect adjacents from each other or on channel.. Same in commercial when you get to 6k25... Line them up and they do not play nice end to endThe IF filters are what they are and DSP has limits... I had no intention of comparing D-Star to Smartnet or EDACS if that is how you took it... I was saying that the repeaters used in those trunking systems inherently have the modulator and discriminators capable of extracting GMSK ( D-Star) modulation for external processing...no more... I have spent a lot of internet study time, testing etc.. but still less than $500.00 ( of that $350.00 was for the nice little 1U rackmount PC ) converting my Mastr III station... it seems like I am still about $6000.00 in the black compared to converting it to P25... for example... which would sort of be a rational ... albeit expensive comparison :-) I am not trying to push anything on anyone... it is another repeater technology.. and you no longer need to buy the repeater from a sole source.. hopefully that growth might trigger other vendors to offer terminals.. if the market were bigger.. they would be in the game... ignoring it does not help to that end :-) Doug KD8B Kris Kirby wrote: On Fri, 2 Apr 2010, Doug Bade wrote: I would be glad to elaborate about D-Star Repeater conversions as there are multiple ways to do it now and Any EDACS capable or Smartnet Capable repeater would do D-Star as both fundamentally have the parts to transmit and receive GMSK type waveforms There is one issue that needs to be handled. When a D-Star repeater hears another user on the input for a callsign not it's own, the modem is captured, and any input packet that starts or is received in the middle of that transmission is discarded. This, of course, would not be permitted in the Motorola world; something would have to be done with the received information, even if a band-opening allowed a remote digital user to interfere with a digital trunking system's input channel(s). Practically speaking, I think that the earlier data should be thrown out, and the packet decode restarted with the new signal. Of course, short of doing SDR and de/re-coding on the fly, this is not a trivial problem to fix. When your RSSI is measured as BER, it's a different world. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site
I have also seen some Federal Govt repair Service Contracts that require GROL or Equivalent Commercial License in order to perform on premises. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:39 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site On 3/30/2010 7:24 AM, wb6dgn wrote: Used to have to have it for land mobile but not any more. Still need it for avionics and marine. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , WD7F - John in Tucsonw...@... wrote: I was able to use my full name in a search and it came up, however, I had a ship's radar endorsement that's not shown. What good is the GROL anyway? Does anyone honor it? de WD7F John in Tucson Most companies that are involved in land mobile in some way or another still require a GROL or another equivalent license/certificate (NABER/PCIA, etc). __._,
RE: [Repeater-Builder] if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site
You may need to associate the commercial entity to the FRN. Licenses need to be attached individually.so it may never have been done. They did not do any auto attaching. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Kupferschmidt Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site I have both amateur and commercial licenses with them. I'm having problems trying to access their database. I went to QRZ, looked up my license, then hyperlinked to the FCC web page from QRZ's listing. There I found my FRN number and inserted it onto the ULS license database for commercial licenses. It didn't find anything. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? TIA, Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Joe mailto:k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site I finally found the link to the database, the FCC makes nothing easy. Here it is: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchFrc.jsp;JSESSIONID_ULSSEARC H=tvF3LwnPwJvK9fNV5tTvYBFhHq63rMp7GHRY7yLR3QWF27W6hF00!-392727333!-180303774 3 Only 152 characters to type, error free. Or use this: http://tinyurl.com/yzaby3r I'm in it, so I can now loose my paper copy worry free. 73, Joe, K1ike* * Fuggitaboutit wrote: many people dont realize that the fcc has never put your old grol (ie) on the new FCC data base that was started in the late 90s it seems that if you had a grol before 1998 or thereabouts ( the inception of the fcc online data base), then your license may not be in the database forget trying to get them to look up your paper license if you lose the paper license, you are out of luck and will have to retest you may be able to call them up and tell them your info from your copy these licenses are still classified as lifetime licenses check yours on line on their site just to make sure its in there you probably have checked the site for your amateur information don't be surprised if you think you have a valid commercial license and you discover there is no record of it on the fcc site image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site
I just went and checked mine.. What you need to do if your GROL is not attached to your FRN is add it from inside your FRN login.. Look up the GROL first so you have the number, you can do an alpha search on your name, then add that callsign to your FRN .. Doug From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Kupferschmidt Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 3:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site I have both amateur and commercial licenses with them. I'm having problems trying to access their database. I went to QRZ, looked up my license, then hyperlinked to the FCC web page from QRZ's listing. There I found my FRN number and inserted it onto the ULS license database for commercial licenses. It didn't find anything. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? TIA, Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Joe mailto:k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] if you have a commercial licenses check it on the fcc site I finally found the link to the database, the FCC makes nothing easy. Here it is: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchFrc.jsp;JSESSIONID_ULSSEARC H=tvF3LwnPwJvK9fNV5tTvYBFhHq63rMp7GHRY7yLR3QWF27W6hF00!-392727333!-180303774 3 Only 152 characters to type, error free. Or use this: http://tinyurl.com/yzaby3r I'm in it, so I can now loose my paper copy worry free. 73, Joe, K1ike* * Fuggitaboutit wrote: many people dont realize that the fcc has never put your old grol (ie) on the new FCC data base that was started in the late 90s it seems that if you had a grol before 1998 or thereabouts ( the inception of the fcc online data base), then your license may not be in the database forget trying to get them to look up your paper license if you lose the paper license, you are out of luck and will have to retest you may be able to call them up and tell them your info from your copy these licenses are still classified as lifetime licenses check yours on line on their site just to make sure its in there you probably have checked the site for your amateur information don't be surprised if you think you have a valid commercial license and you discover there is no record of it on the fcc site image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Controller order PayPal problems
Typically 2-4 weeks My experience as a buyer and seller using Paypal over their existence, before and after Ebay purchased them, is typically less than 24 hours to clear. In maybe 2-3 cases in over 500 transactions, it was held for 1 week or so and those were echecks.. Maybe they just like me. They have also fought for me on issues that went bad and found in my favor 100% of the time.. again usually in days.. not weeks. as they have specific time policies for arbitration.. and they are quite reasonable. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Kerouac Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:46 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Controller order PayPal problems I have been burned by PayPal several times. The real reason they put the hold on your checks or hold money owed to you has nothing to do with your ratings and little to do with security. Basically, they control billions of dollars in transactions ever month through EBay. By holding the money even a few days (typically 2 to 4 weeks), PayPal makes millions in free interest on your money (your interest, actually). There is little regulation in the industry and since EBay owns PayPal, they can pretty much do as they please with your money and you can just lump it. I'm a capitalist and I hate unnecessary government regulation and any form of socialism. However, I don't see any change soon as these guys are cozy with legislators. Remember, next election, use the NRA method of voting.Never Re-elect Anyone! 73, Don K9NR E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.514) Database version: 6.14570 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ image001.jpgimage002.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio
As I recall it was an 8051 family CPU... hardware duplication is not the issue.. I built a couple along the way. I know where one was and probably still is.. the other I sold at Dayton a number of years back... Doug KD8B At 02:12 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: Maybe that could change in light of the situation. But, I was talking more about looking at the hardware and creating a new source for it. Of course, if the original is still available, that would be fine, too. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: I don't know anything about programming the chip, but am pretty sure you'd need the source code in order to make changes. Joe programmed the chips and wouldn't release the code - he didn't want someone to steal his idea. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH mailto:mch%40nb.netm...@nb.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Or if the micro was NLA, use the info as a basis for programming a new one. As long as you knew what line did what, I'm sure it could be revived. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: There was, but it's all gone now. At one point a link to his site was posted on the Repeater Builder site. Joe made several posts to this list and became discouraged at the lack of interest. The documentation would be of no value as you need the programmed microprocessor chip to make it work. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio
It was not a single channel device it had at least 10 channels... It took over the radios pll from outside so radio channel programming and capacity was irrelevant... It also had scan, simplex offset and a few other amateur features... I was involved in application testing on a few of the radios under my first callsign of KB8GVQ as well as Jim WD8CHL... It programmed the pll chip that runs the synthesizer by isolating that in the radio... the radio though it was on whatever was in a particular channel and the PLL was actually wherever Joe and the User wanted it... The reason for different versions was it had to account for how a given PLL was programmed and the offset differences based on the IF for receive. Doug KD8B At 02:50 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: On the contrary, the docs were very enlightening. Perhaps the reason there was little interest was the fact that it appears to make the radio 'single channel only', and I'm sure many people would have wanted to keep the multi-channel capability. But, as an add-on to the radio as-is, it would have been very interesting. What microprocessor did he use? And are any still available? Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: There was, but it's all gone now. At one point a link to his site was posted on the Repeater Builder site. Joe made several posts to this list and became discouraged at the lack of interest. The documentation would be of no value as you need the programmed microprocessor chip to make it work. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH mailto:mch%40nb.netm...@nb.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Interesting. I wonder if there is some tech info on this that is available. Any idea how much the cost was and what mods were required? Or, perhaps some tech data on the synthesizer as far as what pins control the frequency, as well as any binary-to-frequency info. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: Joe Burch was his name. It was a frequency agile control head that could be set up for most any type of synthesized commercial radio. You entered the frequency and tone via a keypad. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - *From:* Chuck Kelsey mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com *To:* mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 8:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Been there, done that. There was no interest in the ham community. Why? It required modifications that most were not willing to tackle. At the moment, the name of the guy escapes me, but I did one of his modifications to a 6-meter Delta-S several years ago. He has since given up on the idea, but it worked on most any radio. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2717 - Release Date: 03/01/10 14:34:00 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio
The reason it died was more apathy in the amateur world when a ham can buy a full featured vhf or uhf or even 6m radio off the shelf that did more for less and required no surgery... Joe and I had discussions on porting it onto 900 radios at the time which were only available as commercial feature starved radios( mostly with no mods available at the time like we have now) and at the time 900 was such slow growth.. no one chose to show interest. If you look back in discussions on ar902mhz you will find queries of interest.. there was none so the project was never pushed... What needed to be done is build a self contained head and finish it as a complete unit.. it was not really complete although it was operational. Some of us had issues when we tried to remote control a radio from a remote head as the line drivers had poor immunity to noise... Most assembled were hand wired as boards were only available later in the project.. A replacement project is worthy ( and quite doable ) but I am not sure Joe would care to participate.. as he was pretty dejected about the reception by the amateur community... Timing is everything as they say... Many radios such as Maxtrac and almost ALL the GE-et-al 900 radios share a common PLL chip.. it is not magic to program Doug KD8B At 02:50 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: Oh, BTW, I saw nothing for the Spectra there. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: There was, but it's all gone now. At one point a link to his site was posted on the Repeater Builder site. Joe made several posts to this list and became discouraged at the lack of interest. The documentation would be of no value as you need the programmed microprocessor chip to make it work. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH mailto:mch%40nb.netm...@nb.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Interesting. I wonder if there is some tech info on this that is available. Any idea how much the cost was and what mods were required? Or, perhaps some tech data on the synthesizer as far as what pins control the frequency, as well as any binary-to-frequency info. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: Joe Burch was his name. It was a frequency agile control head that could be set up for most any type of synthesized commercial radio. You entered the frequency and tone via a keypad. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - *From:* Chuck Kelsey mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com *To:* mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 8:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Been there, done that. There was no interest in the ham community. Why? It required modifications that most were not willing to tackle. At the moment, the name of the guy escapes me, but I did one of his modifications to a 6-meter Delta-S several years ago. He has since given up on the idea, but it worked on most any radio. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2717 - Release Date: 03/01/10 14:34:00 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio
It also had VFO tuning step size programming etc.besides programmed memories Doug At 08:29 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: So it had memories built-in? Joe M. Doug Bade wrote: It was not a single channel device it had at least 10 channels... It took over the radios pll from outside so radio channel programming and capacity was irrelevant... It also had scan, simplex offset and a few other amateur features... I was involved in application testing on a few of the radios under my first callsign of KB8GVQ as well as Jim WD8CHL... It programmed the pll chip that runs the synthesizer by isolating that in the radio... the radio though it was on whatever was in a particular channel and the PLL was actually wherever Joe and the User wanted it... The reason for different versions was it had to account for how a given PLL was programmed and the offset differences based on the IF for receive. Doug KD8B At 02:50 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: On the contrary, the docs were very enlightening. Perhaps the reason there was little interest was the fact that it appears to make the radio 'single channel only', and I'm sure many people would have wanted to keep the multi-channel capability. But, as an add-on to the radio as-is, it would have been very interesting. What microprocessor did he use? And are any still available? Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: There was, but it's all gone now. At one point a link to his site was posted on the Repeater Builder site. Joe made several posts to this list and became discouraged at the lack of interest. The documentation would be of no value as you need the programmed microprocessor chip to make it work. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH mailto:mch%40nb.netm...@nb.net mailto:mch%40nb.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Interesting. I wonder if there is some tech info on this that is available. Any idea how much the cost was and what mods were required? Or, perhaps some tech data on the synthesizer as far as what pins control the frequency, as well as any binary-to-frequency info. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: Joe Burch was his name. It was a frequency agile control head that could be set up for most any type of synthesized commercial radio. You entered the frequency and tone via a keypad. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - *From:* Chuck Kelsey mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com *To:* mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 8:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Been there, done that. There was no interest in the ham community. Why? It required modifications that most were not willing to tackle. At the moment, the name of the guy escapes me, but I did one of his modifications to a 6-meter Delta-S several years ago. He has since given up on the idea, but it worked on most any radio. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/http://www.avg.com/ Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2717 - Release Date: 03/01/10 14:34:00 Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2718 - Release Date: 03/02/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio
Yes as well as scan add delete etc At 08:29 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: So it had memories built-in? Joe M. Doug Bade wrote: It was not a single channel device it had at least 10 channels... It took over the radios pll from outside so radio channel programming and capacity was irrelevant... It also had scan, simplex offset and a few other amateur features... I was involved in application testing on a few of the radios under my first callsign of KB8GVQ as well as Jim WD8CHL... It programmed the pll chip that runs the synthesizer by isolating that in the radio... the radio though it was on whatever was in a particular channel and the PLL was actually wherever Joe and the User wanted it... The reason for different versions was it had to account for how a given PLL was programmed and the offset differences based on the IF for receive. Doug KD8B At 02:50 AM 3/2/2010, you wrote: On the contrary, the docs were very enlightening. Perhaps the reason there was little interest was the fact that it appears to make the radio 'single channel only', and I'm sure many people would have wanted to keep the multi-channel capability. But, as an add-on to the radio as-is, it would have been very interesting. What microprocessor did he use? And are any still available? Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: There was, but it's all gone now. At one point a link to his site was posted on the Repeater Builder site. Joe made several posts to this list and became discouraged at the lack of interest. The documentation would be of no value as you need the programmed microprocessor chip to make it work. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH mailto:mch%40nb.netm...@nb.net mailto:mch%40nb.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Interesting. I wonder if there is some tech info on this that is available. Any idea how much the cost was and what mods were required? Or, perhaps some tech data on the synthesizer as far as what pins control the frequency, as well as any binary-to-frequency info. Joe M. Chuck Kelsey wrote: Joe Burch was his name. It was a frequency agile control head that could be set up for most any type of synthesized commercial radio. You entered the frequency and tone via a keypad. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - *From:* Chuck Kelsey mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com *To:* mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 8:20 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 900 meg Spectra radio Been there, done that. There was no interest in the ham community. Why? It required modifications that most were not willing to tackle. At the moment, the name of the guy escapes me, but I did one of his modifications to a 6-meter Delta-S several years ago. He has since given up on the idea, but it worked on most any radio. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/http://www.avg.com/ Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2717 - Release Date: 03/01/10 14:34:00 Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2718 - Release Date: 03/02/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Bend an ICOM a little further
Jared; You need to warp 4khz not 400hz... If they were made up for 146.01 I would assume that they can do that. So now we need to look at why they are not... 10v reg power supply needs to be 10v +/- .1-.2v . The temp comp line to the EC needs to be driven to something by a 5ppm or eq channel element installed in the board, not necessarily even to be in band.. just to hold the comp line where it belongs... assuming it is not a comp line dc issue or a 10v reg dc issue, it is possible the xtal is from an exec II and while the xtal is the same freq, it is not the same cut... it may or may not tune in a Mastr II. On the other hand Mastr II xtals will in general function in both Exec II and Mastr II as a more precise cut. There is also a section of striplines at the top of the element that are actually there to fine trim the freq of the oscillator in the element. It is normally covered by the temp com circuit in an 2C and 5C. sometimes you can either repair or cut parts of that stripline area to move the center of the xtal. I would suspect that if the xtal is the correct one and it was assembled correctly.. it is more likely a DC issue to the comp line or 10v reg... The comp line needs to sit about 4.5 v, as I recall, for proper operation at room temp...Any 5C plugged in a spare element slot will drag it to the correct voltage... you can also measure it with a volt meter on any unused element pin spot that is not in use on that board... While in a mobile the comp line is common to the TX and RX.. in a station it is not.. you did not indicate what Mastr II you were working with.. Doug KD8B KE4ZDG wrote: Hey folks, I'm working on a GE Mastr II high band repeater. Someone gave me some crystals that were made up for 146.010 RX. I installed one in an EC ICOM and the best I can adjust for is 146.0064, which sounds really scratchy when I inject a 3k deviation signal on 146.010. When I tune the monitor down to 146.0064, the RX audio cleans right up. I've backed out the screw until there's no more threads left in the ICOM. Is there a capacitor I can change or add to give me a little more tuning range to the ICOM? I just need the crystal to go up a hair more (400 Hz on the crystal freq). I know I'm promoting cheapness by not buying another crystal, but the club doesn't have much money to spend. Thanks, Jared Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Master 2 and DCS
There used to be an add on board from Comm Spec that could add DCS/DCG/DPL to a suitable radio. Many aftermarket repeater controllers can do DCG/DCS. DCS modulation needs to be sent into a varactor modulator stage... Direct FM exciters on Mastr II can do it native on the CTCSS port... Older Phase Modulated exciters need to be handled differently... Injecting DCS on the compensation line is a suitable possibility . The suggested discriminator pickoff for DCS is a point in the rx in front of Volume Sq Hi... so best to pick it off with a separate wire. Doug KD8B gervais wrote: hi all my master 2 repeater has a tone of 141.3 hz. i remember that when i programm my Phoenix i can setup a DCS tone ,Digital code. Is there a board that you slot into the Master 2 so it could use a DCS ? thanks Gervais ve2ckn Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 6 Meter Repeater spacing (no duplexers)
I had a quite much longer reply in the buffer and decided to shorten it.. .. but 19 miles for any tx to rx coupling would seem to make the band unusable in a metro area.. due to every radio would swamp every receiver in the market...This is just not the case.. The only influence the tx could have on the rx (500khz spacing) at over maybe a mile or two would be white noise.. as the carrier would be well below desense levels itself at that range The implication is every white noise generator within 19 miles would disrupt the rx site aka every mobile in the band. or base or other repeater.. I can say I am aware of a system that a group here operated a 6m repeater site to site at .5 miles at 300khz with modest filters on the TX end.. The RX site actually had 3 repeater receivers for 3 different clubs... Proper engineering would put at least a single bandpass can and maybe an isolator if possible on the TX site.. to minimize white noise to other users...and by itself should make the system useable within a mile let alone 8...or 19... Doug KD8B At 08:59 AM 1/22/2010, you wrote: Boy, that seems excessive to me, even at 500 kHz. My hunch is that you'll have acceptable performance much closer in distance. 1 MHz spacing was mentioned which would obviously be even better. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.netwb6...@verizon.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 12:19 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 6 Meter Repeater spacing (no duplexers) Tim, I use CommShop for Windows, a handy package that does much more than duplexer isolation calculations. Go here for more info: www.dcico.com/dcilmr.htm It calculates that you'll need about 93 dB of isolation, which requires more than 19 miles of horizontal separation. This can be reduced by using lower power output, a better receiver and PA, and perhaps directional antennas. Bear in mind that CommShop and similar programs make many assumptions to come up with these estimates, and some or all of those assumption might be invalid. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Ahrens Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:21 PM To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 6 Meter Repeater spacing (no duplexers) Hi Eric/all, Since this is just a curiosity at this time, let's figure 50 watts, 0.25uV, 500khz split. I figured that was the case about the vertical separation, but threw it in anyway. One site would be a solar site, so it would make sense to make it the RX. Guess it might require a notch can at the rx site, based on what Chris said. BTW, what software package are you using? I've been using Radio Mobile for coverage, it works pretty good. Thanks, Tim W5FN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PC for controller
Al; You may want to look into the Allstar Link project or similar that are based on Asterisk as the core system. A $10 sound interface from ebay can be used as the controller in connection with a receiver, transmitter and a PC running the sw which can be downloaded as a self installing ISO CDrom image..It does run Linux as the core... it also provides international linking capacity besides repeater functions. I currently use Intel Atom 330 based motherboards for the site computer.. and it will run 4 repeaters with 4 usb sound interfaces at once.. IF you go the expensive route.. you can buy a prebuilt interface device called a URI from a company called DMK Engineering ( ham pricing available) .. sub $100 each.. and have 5 wires to connect to the tx and rx to make a repeater... that will connect in the exact same places most repeaters use for any other analog controller.. I use rack mount Supermicro atom 330 based board kit *Item #: *N82E16816101262 from Newegg.. at $279.00 plus 1GB Ram plus HD plus a URI... will be less than $500.00 out the door and you can add 3 more URI's to link ( or not as they are each standalone) 3 more repeaters or remote bases ( yes you can hook up most any HF radio with remote control ) which can be controlled by the users... for just the cost of the URI's as the sw will support many repeaters.. limited by the DSP audio streaming/ processing of the motherboard as USB Sound devices transfer DSP largely to the OS.. CPU Load goes up with each additional repeater..I currently run 3 machines for 3 different clubs on one Computer at the site... This sw has connection capability to Echlink as well as IRLP besides the AllStar Link network.. BTW any computer with USB and ethernet, in the P4 or better realm can easily run 4 or more URI's... I CHOOSE to use1u rackmounts at the site.. so pay a little premium to do that.. There is also a UK ham, Jonathan G4KLX, who has coded a software package to use these same URI devices as well as several other sound interfaces called pcrepeatercontroller it is it's own yahoogroup.. He makes both windows and linux distributions of the application. Windows is fairly easy to set up.. Linux is more standard for internet linked systems but is harder to set up with his stuff at this time ( If you are Linux centric it helps a lot) ..I have written a howto for installing and building the software on CentOS 5.4 that is fairly 101 level ... Jonathan also writes a DStar repeater version that converts a FM modulated radio ( 9600 Packet ready) or Eq into a standalone Dstar repeater ( needs 2 radios to repeat :-) ) I am currently setting up and testing a DStar URI based installation on my Mastr III UHF station.. which came from 403-430 and I moved to 440-450... Mastr II stations with FM modulators probably will do equally well as that was the platform in Mastr II for EDACS which was a waveform very similar to Dstar... albeit 9600 baud instead of DStar 4800.. I will be working on documenting that down the road.. but want to get my MIII running first..It is converted.. just need to connect the URI. I am analyzing and deciding where to connect as MIII is a little more complex then MII :-) Jonathan, the author, has an item on his todo list to merge the 2 apps onto one so it would be a dual mode analog and Dstar repeater... both apps launch at the click of a mouse... just one at a time now.. the same connections are shared for both.. He is also working with the DStar network guys and can connect his repeater software based box's to other Dstar repeaters and gateways through the open source network stuff currently being built... Doug KD8B Al Wolfe wrote: The other day some of us were discussing replacing the controller in one of our local repeaters. It is presently an NRHC-4. While throwing ideas around someone suggested why not just use an old PC and sound card. Then we could add bells and whistles as needed. This got us to thinking that maybe this might be a good idea. Then someone said why reinvent the wheel. Why not see what others have done first. So, I'm asking what are your experiences with this concept? What programs are available? Other than some stability issues with Windoz, what are the pitfalls? Thanks, Al, K9SI
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PC for controller
Tim; Driver support in Allstar Link is there for CM108 and CM119 devices... Most of the USB sound fobs that specify Surround sound 7.1 are based on these chips or a ss part number chip. Most of the vendors are specifying the chipset in sound fob auctions as it is important.. I did not have a great deal of success rolling my own sound fob so I decided to use the URI devices as it is a modified CM108 sound fob on steroids... Obviously cost is an issue but in my case it outweighed the aggravation factor of doing microsurgery on the fob. There is discussion of the modified fob process on one or more of the app_rpt distro's web sites... here is a link http://images.qrvc.com/usbfob.pdf I beleive this would be a suitable device...the auction number is 320459478011 It is CM119 based.. Either the CM108 chipset or CM119 chipset is suitable... Doug KD8B Tim Herron wrote: Doug, Which ebay sound interface do you recommend for app_rpt, and is there a good site showing the mods necessary for the conversion of said usb device? Tim On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Doug Bade k...@thebades.net mailto:k...@thebades.net wrote: Al; You may want to look into the Allstar Link project or similar that are based on Asterisk as the core system. A $10 sound interface from ebay can be used as the controller in connection with a receiver, transmitter and a PC running the sw which can be downloaded as a self installing ISO CDrom image..It does run Linux as the core... it also provides international linking capacity besides repeater functions. I currently use Intel Atom 330 based motherboards for the site computer.. and it will run 4 repeaters with 4 usb sound interfaces at once.. IF you go the expensive route.. you can buy a prebuilt interface device called a URI from a company called DMK Engineering ( ham pricing available) .. sub $100 each.. and have 5 wires to connect to the tx and rx to make a repeater... that will connect in the exact same places most repeaters use for any other analog controller.. I use rack mount Supermicro atom 330 based board kit *Item #: *N82E16816101262 from Newegg.. at $279.00 plus 1GB Ram plus HD plus a URI... will be less than $500.00 out the door and you can add 3 more URI's to link ( or not as they are each standalone) 3 more repeaters or remote bases ( yes you can hook up most any HF radio with remote control ) which can be controlled by the users... for just the cost of the URI's as the sw will support many repeaters.. limited by the DSP audio streaming/ processing of the motherboard as USB Sound devices transfer DSP largely to the OS.. CPU Load goes up with each additional repeater..I currently run 3 machines for 3 different clubs on one Computer at the site... This sw has connection capability to Echlink as well as IRLP besides the AllStar Link network.. BTW any computer with USB and ethernet, in the P4 or better realm can easily run 4 or more URI's... I CHOOSE to use1u rackmounts at the site.. so pay a little premium to do that.. There is also a UK ham, Jonathan G4KLX, who has coded a software package to use these same URI devices as well as several other sound interfaces called pcrepeatercontroller it is it's own yahoogroup.. He makes both windows and linux distributions of the application. Windows is fairly easy to set up.. Linux is more standard for internet linked systems but is harder to set up with his stuff at this time ( If you are Linux centric it helps a lot) ..I have written a howto for installing and building the software on CentOS 5.4 that is fairly 101 level ... Jonathan also writes a DStar repeater version that converts a FM modulated radio ( 9600 Packet ready) or Eq into a standalone Dstar repeater ( needs 2 radios to repeat :-) ) I am currently setting up and testing a DStar URI based installation on my Mastr III UHF station.. which came from 403-430 and I moved to 440-450... Mastr II stations with FM modulators probably will do equally well as that was the platform in Mastr II for EDACS which was a waveform very similar to Dstar... albeit 9600 baud instead of DStar 4800.. I will be working on documenting that down the road.. but want to get my MIII running first..It is converted.. just need to connect the URI. I am analyzing and deciding where to connect as MIII is a little more complex then MII :-) Jonathan, the author, has an item on his todo list to merge the 2 apps onto one so it would be a dual mode analog and Dstar repeater... both apps launch at the click of a mouse... just one at a time now.. the same connections are shared for both.. He is also working with the DStar network guys and can connect his repeater software based box's to other Dstar repeaters and gateways through the open
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR-901-1 (mod for 902-927 MHz)
I have not been working on that project... I do not know about Pete... Doug Kd8B Steven M Hodell wrote: Doug / Pete, Any updates on converting the Kenwood TKR-901-1 (mod for 902-927 MHz)? Thank you, Steve. - Original Message - *From:* Doug Bade mailto:k...@thebades.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Saturday, January 16, 2010 4:44 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] PC for controller Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
Jed; There are certainly options to pass radio audio and keying over the internet in VOIP or equivalent scenarios. I would also mention there are several agencies who have regulations on how calls are answered and dispatched... Your solution would seem to require some approvals if involves 911.. A cheap and dirty IP based solution may not meet the legal requirements and implied service requirements of your municipals insurance company. I would think you need to verify it is legal to do what you want let alone insured... then find a solution that satisfies those parties... Doug KD8B At 04:03 PM 1/4/2010, you wrote: Hey guys, I am working on a project and am wondering if anyone has done this. Here's the proposal, to setup a dispatch center for an FD, where the dispatchers can sit at home and work the entire thing. This is not a very busy department, that's why they thought it would be good to do it. I've done a lot of research, and it can certainly be done. This obviously brings up a lot of debate for a number of reasons. In looking at it though, the relyability of the net is very good compared to a verizon phone line. Curious if anyone has done something like this before. For the phone system, we'reusing a virtual phone system that has proven relyability. Thanks, Jed
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet
Jed; What you ask is more of a legal issue than technical. There are several products built to transport voice/radio over IP and at least 2 have been mentioned in this thread.. But.. before you start buying equipment I think you need to deal with the legal and liability issues.. this has nothing to do with technical.. it has to do with state and/or federal laws.. In my state a 911 call center has to be manned full time 24x7 and cannot be switched from one center to another ( or in your case dispatchers houses) . It is just not permitted... I am assuming most states have similar laws.. actually routing the call is not the issue... If you cannot comply with the 24x7x365 from a manned single point.. I do not think you can run a 911 PSAP dispatch center.. I am not talking about switching for backups.. I am talking about switching for shift coverage or day/night type scenarios. Now ... if your County Seat ( Sheriffs Office etc..) handles 911 calls and all you want to do is deal with non emergency and voice dispatch of non essential traffic.. that is another matter... There are VOIP and ROIP solutions for remote controlling radios. There are Wireless Consoles on IP based systems.. Almost ALL Public Safety IP based linking system that I have ever seen have a requirement of a finite fixed or controlled latency which as mentioned by others means a private network, or private within a public network or some equivalent Service Level Agreement that will make sure it will be.. There are commercial applications of ROIP such as http://www.xelatec.com/xippr/products who offer software and hardware to remote control transceivers.. These are business class solutions but are well established.. They have plenty of roots in amateur linking as well as commercial systems... it is largely based on Asterisk PBX. Another product group of hardware is referred to TDM over IP.. these systems create framed T1's etc over IP backhaul ( private or private over public networks) but latency and jitter must be controlled.. anything from 4 wire EM over IP to 56k and up to T1 or even multi T1. IDA Corporation also makes Radio over IP control hardware.. I do have recent experience with those products.. and I can also say that product group seems to be in at least one major manufacturer's IP based desktop Control Station radio hardware.. supporting IP based remotes or standard dc or tone remotes... Doug KD8B Jed Barton wrote: the phone system we're thinking of going with is a system called ring central. It's a system i am very familiar with, and have a ton of experience with. Curious if you have done the VOIP thing before in a dispatch environment. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] dispatch centers run through the internet Jed; There are certainly options to pass radio audio and keying over the internet in VOIP or equivalent scenarios. I would also mention there are several agencies who have regulations on how calls are answered and dispatched... Your solution would seem to require some approvals if involves 911.. A cheap and dirty IP based solution may not meet the legal requirements and implied service requirements of your municipals insurance company. I would think you need to verify it is legal to do what you want let alone insured... then find a solution that satisfies those parties... Doug KD8B At 04:03 PM 1/4/2010, you wrote:
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 50 Watt Repeater
Icom Systems group sells a version of the FR3000 with a 100w amp and additional power supply, if you are looking for off the shelf.. that is how you get 50+ watts at 100% duty cycle... Most folks opt to go to less than 100% duty cycle to keep from doubling the cost... but if you really need 50+w all day all night all nice. you need a station with an amp rated at that Probably still cheaper than buying a Harris or Motorola 100w station ie Mastr III or Quantar or similar ... For public Safety I would still look at these latter two choices.. as their 100% track record is readily duplicate-able. I believe Kenwood sells a similar arrangement... The little desktop size repeater just do not have the heatsink and cooling to do 50W @100% without some form of additional external amp... It is about heat dissipation.. 50watts is easy.. cooling 24x7 in any reasonable environment is a little trickier... While you can force anything to do 100% that does not mean it was engineered for it..or suggested.. :-) That engineering generally costs... or if it is for amateur.. Build it :-) Doug KD8B At 02:10 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: Any suggestions on a 50 watt repeater to buy? I've been looking around and keep looking at the Icom FR3000, I know there are others but I am having trouble finding a 50 Watt Continous duty... The Icom FR5000 is 25W at 100% duty cycle but is considered a 50 watt repeater.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] acssb - how does it work and is it possible for the hobbyist to scratch build
The demise of ACSSB in our area was the overall range was limited to poor sensitivity relative to a similarly situated uhf repeater.. Typical sensitivity of the mobiles was .4-.5~.6uv or so compared to sub .2uv on uhf and vhf fm mobiles that were readily available.. Sound quality did not help ... The noise floor is higher at 220 in many areas in the cities... compared to uhf basically our UHF systems killed 220 acssb once we could start trunking efficiently with LTR... there was no competition between the 2 as UHF engineered well was superior... It was not possible to improve the sensitivity of the front end due to the design of the hardware and systems typically could hear farther than they could talk... so mobiles lost the site first... Typically most systems were SEA that were actually getting loading... and those system cost a lot more for 100w amps than the stock 20w SO most systems were deployed with 20w transmitters at the site.. talking to 20w mobiles.. the site had a preamp on rx the combiners chewed up TX power ... lowering outbound ERP... Downlink power was always less than uplink. In FM 100w PA's are no issue to add at will to a 20w repeater.. boosting the output of an ACSSB transmitter required a complex amp with a feedback loop controlling gain $ not a $800.00 vocom or eq like on FM... We only owned one and never deployed it... it double the cost of each repeater... Performance was sub par for about any other radio operation including 800 mhzand probably 900 Doug KD8B At 03:46 PM 11/11/2009, you wrote: basically as the title states. i have never heard of acssb outside of 220-222 mhz. seems to me acssb was a good idea and was curious as to why the ham community has not picked up on it for mobile HF SSB use. seems to me having the benefits of SSB without the hassle of messing with a clarifier all the time has it's advantages in a mobile environment. also it seems running a AOR ARD9000 type device over ACSSB would be a really great advantage. i have zero experience with either of these modes so i am not sure how this idea would turn out. i know that the likely reason is NBFM and P25 for the demise of ACSSB, but as stated above seems to me it would be at home in the HF spectrum. I know i am going to get flamed for this, but i think ACSSB would make a great replacement for standard ssb in the 11 meter market. it would also allow the use of CTCSS on HF using a more efficient mode then FM. imagine haveing ACSSB 10 meter repeaters instead of FM.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Securicor 220 mhz repeater????
As I recall the Control channel was FM for some reason.. and voice was LM They made a mess of the spectrum around them when they occupied sites with other 220 systems.. including themselves.. We had a site with (2) 5 channel Securicor trunks. They could never run both at once as the control channels blocked each other even on separate systems on separate freq blocks.. If some Securicor folks are around they might still be able to comment on that... They had 100w PA's too as I recall... I helped install them at the site, but they told us little of what was under the hood... Doug KD8B At 12:58 PM 11/9/2009, you wrote: As a matter of fact, I'm playing with one right now. If anyone has schematics or a service manual with schematics it would be greatly appreciated and would aid my efforts tremendously. Or any information on the mobile radio that was used with these would help as the repeaters seem to share the RF and SPU boards minus a few components here and there. It seems to be technology that has been allowed to die. The company that designed this stuff was called Linear Modulation Technology out of England, a subsidiary of Intek Global. These were later produced by EF Johnson as the Viking LX series. It is unknown if Midland while under the Securicor name actually produced them or not. Mine has a EF Johnson klingon added with the wrong shade of white paint and a Securicor sticker slapped on top of that. The system used is called Linear Modulation. Similar to SEA's ACSSB system, but different enough that the two companies products are incompatible. Apparently the FCC didn't care what people used on 220-222 MHz, as long as it fit into a single channel. Both are Upper side band designed to fit in a 5kHz wide channel. DSPs spilt the audio passband in the middle for insertion of a pilot tone while the upper portion of the original audio is transposed above the pilot tone, you get about 3300 Hz of audio bandwidth, about 400-500Hz of split for the pilot and the rest is channel guard. In LM, the pilot tone that is used for AFC and AGC. In ACSSB the pilot tone also serves to send trunking data, while the audio is compressed and expanded for noise reduction. In the Securicor the receiver brings the RF down to a 12.5kHz second IF and the DSP goes to work on it as a software defined radio. As a matter of fact this is considered the first SDR made, with patents back to 1991. The transmitter is basicly a phase method SSB generator that uses the DSP and 2 DACs to generate the 90 degree phase shift. there are like 5 mixers on the RF board. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:39 AM, ag4uw mailto:ag4uw%40yahoo.comag...@yahoo.com wrote: Anyone have any info on the Securicor 220 mhz repeaters??? Can they be put in the ham band?? Thanks Freddy N4XW Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference to 2-meter VHF Public Service Band
This sounds like a problem I traced about 20 years ago on a VHF paging system. The PA was tube and there was some issue the tech had with the PA not firing on rf drive .. so he locked the PTT to the PA on all the time and then just turned the exciter on and offThe problem was the PA was self resonant +- a sweep of our freq and would go there whenever the transmitter exciter was NOT present... and it drifted with temperature so was a 300 w moving target I guess he never looked at it with a watt meter while the exciter was off How we finally identified it was we could hear the tone blips at the end of the interference cycle ( when the station was really being asked to tx) bleed through from the PURC tones just before it went away.. We then watched the TX carrier of the real tx come on perfectly synchronouslyto the absence on our end...By watching what came on when it went off we figured out the freq... as there was no modulation during interference...They toggled perfectly on a wide sweep spectrum analyzer... During the day it was gone as the system was busy.. but at night when it got quiet we got hammered...Then I DF'ed the particular tx.as it was a simulcastAnd the tech shut it down until it could be fixed correctly and our problem went away The tone sequencing leaked through from the link system which pointed us to paging... in this case it was a 152 . to protect the guilty :-) and moved to 151. area blocking some control stations inputs at a nearby dispatch center... Doug KD8B At 06:28 PM 10/28/2009, you wrote: Mike, If it moves around based on time of day, my first guess is a PA that's gone bad, and has a parasitic that's temperature-related. If you've tracked an individual spur drifting 70 kHz up the band during a single transmission, this is not some (intentional) oscillator drifting, but some combination of failed components or tuning which has produced a parasitic. Sorry to say, but a paging transmitter owner swearing his stuff is clean is pretty meaningless. The assumption in his industry is the professionals who maintain his stuff are not the problem, it's those damn hams. Sadly, it may more often be the other way around these days, as companies maintaining paging equipment have transitioned to underpaid, under-trained card-swappers instead of component-level technicians with a clue about RF systems. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: mailto:mwbese...@cox.netMike To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Pager Interference to 2-meter VHF Public Service Band A couple of weeks ago, our repeater system started to experience interference from a paging system... ...one evening I tracked it from about 145.120 to 145.190 as it swept through each transmission... .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Icom FR-3000 Info needed
I am not sure what you are asking, is this about programming or is this about vco and/or hardware mods As far as I can see the programming software does not care what you enter . Doug KD8B At 01:32 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote: Hello, I was wondering has anyone ever done the software programing to bring the Icom FR-3000 into the Ham band not the freq programing but the actual conversion? If so give me hints and thoughts thanks Mike KC8FWD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Question on portable repeaters
Possible options ? I decided to poke around on the Bird TX/RX website and found this little guy ( relatively speaking :-) ) Probably more command post sized than SUV sized but hey.. how big is that SUV :-)??? http://birdtechnologies.thomasnet.com/item/all-categories-duplexers-and-triplexers/duplexers-2/28-37-04c?seo=110 At 9.5 x 19 x 10.5 inches, COULD fit in a car.. It is rated at 65db at .5mhz so would be a bit better at .6mhz and as I recall many of the little mobile duplexers are typically 65db to 80db at bestso would be in the neighborhood of lowest useable isolation figures, depending on how quiet the TX is to start with. It looks like it gets to 70db at 1 mhz with less insertion loss so .6 mhz would likely be somewhere in between... if you do not mind the insertion loss... Assuming we could split, it at worst case, 10-20db of antenna isolation in a mobile environment might be possible, and/or some additional notching...all this may make a low power 2m portable duplexer plausible without filling a whole car:-) Our club uses a 300khz 6 can TX/RX for our 2M repeater that was rated at ~100db at 600khz.. but when we had it set up for 600khz spacing it yielded in excess of 120 db TX to RX as delivered from TX/RX. From a practical perspective small 2M duplexers seem to start at about 2Mhz split... but hey size is relative Doug KD8B Morning, We are looking at building a portable repeater for special even use. This will be mobile mounted and 2M. My questions is this: If we are using two radios (one for TX one for RX) then what does the antenna separation have to be for all of this to work? Planning on mounting this in a SUV so roof space can be adjusted if need be. Thanks Peter Dakota Summerhawk Laramie County ARES
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Strange Problem
Mastr II/ Exec II transmitters can have ~5vdc on mic high, this is the bias for the amplifier in a normal microphone. If you do not have a capacitor in series to the computer interface or the computer interface has a polarized cap that is in the wrong direction, strange things like this can happen. Verify DC potential on both sides of any interface components... as capacitors can work backwards for a while but eventually stop passing when incorrectly polarized... It is always better to use non polarized capacitors in this audio path but they do usually cost a little more and sometimes are harder to acquire... Doug KD8B At 09:37 AM 10/6/2009, you wrote: The old controller was actually having problems opening up when the radio went into receive. So it's a bit different. I am trying to get my hands on another controller to see if that helps. Also may try putting the old controller back in to see if it starts working any better. -Original Message- From: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:20 AM To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange Problem Are you experiencing the exactly same problem with Echostation as you had with the old controller? If so, it's probably something wrong in the MastrII radio. I would troubleshoot this by taking the covers off of everything so that I can access several points in the transmit audio chain. I'd take some audio readings with the repeater working correctly, then wait until the trouble happens and see what changed. At least this will point you to the area where the trouble is occurring. As I wild guess, I would suspect a bad capacitor. With MastrII boards being so easy to get, I would probably just change out the board. 73, Joe, K1ike Vernon Densler wrote: Here is my setup. I have a MastrII mobile which was converted a long time ago. I was having trouble with my controller a while back and went with Echostation. As far as I know everything was working fine for a while then over the past few weeks I started having this strange problem. After being on for about 15 or 20 minutes my audio level on the transmit side will drop really low. Most of the time if I unplug the cable going from the computer to the transmit side of the radio or turn the repeater off then on again it will come back to normal for about 20 minutes again. I tried putting my audio mixer between the computer and the transmit on the radio and it didn't fix the problem, however using headphones on the mixer I could tell that the audio level from the computer never dropped. Which would lead me to believe it's something in the radio. I also tried disconnecting the ground line from the TX side and that didn't help. Going to try both the TX and RX side next so that there are no grounds going to the sound card. Besides that is there anything else that could be causing this? Thanks, Vern KI4ONW Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE Mastr II parts
That was the first version of the L.O. board. later replaced with coils on the pcb and capacitors... At 02:29 PM 9/14/2009, you wrote: Dang, I just found out my saved searches were missing something!! That auction has an unusual local oscillator with those coils? I don't remember ever seeing one before. Heard of them, just ain't seen one. Don W5DK From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Fletcher Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:57 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Mastr II parts Hi Gilles The easiest place is eBay, here is one for sale right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/GE-MASTR-II-UHF-Receiver_W0QQitemZ230376291330QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a37f3c02_trksid=p3286.c0.m14http://cgi.ebay.com/GE-MASTR-II-UHF-Receiver_W0QQitemZ230376291330QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a37f3c02_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 I was personally looking at this for spare parts but of course I yield to the needy first..;-) Best regards Richard From: adjiqc adj...@yahoo.ca To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:31:20 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE Mastr II parts Hi All, I am new to this group and I was wondering if someone could help us out, we are an amateur radio club and our UHF repeater died so we are looking for parts. If someone would know where to get the following it would be appreciated. 1- High split 450-470MHZ receiver for the repeater 2- Tone board 3- Or if someone would have a full repeater in the UHF high split Regards Gilles VE2GFV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Requesting SmarTrunk II Digital Controller Info
It is a discontinued product it is a trunking protocol of it's own...the docs seem to be gone on the web site but I do have a pdf of the manual from them. I could email it if you can take a 4.5 mb attachment... If you want contact me with an address I can email it to.. The product page is... http://www.smartrunk.com/en/SmarTrunk_II/ST-853.html Doug KD8B At 03:22 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: I have (3) ST-853 SmarTrunk II Digital Controllers. I cannot seem to find any info on these models. Can anyone supply info on these controllers? For example, are they capable of PL and DPL or any other formats? How are they programmed etc, etc.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Requesting SmarTrunk II Digital Controller Info
I checked more thoroughly .. here is the link to the manual at their website... http://www.smartrunk.com/en/Download/Manuals/st-853_manual_en.pdf Doug At 03:22 PM 9/9/2009, you wrote: I have (3) ST-853 SmarTrunk II Digital Controllers. I cannot seem to find any info on these models. Can anyone supply info on these controllers? For example, are they capable of PL and DPL or any other formats? How are they programmed etc, etc.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] P25 Problem
It seems that there are APCO P25 emergency functions and there are ASTRO P25 proprietary extensions.. The Harris infrastructure deals with the APCO 25 parts... but seems like ASTRO 25 radios do not exactly. We are finding a few issues like this here as we have an 800 Harris-P25 system, and while the XTS radios do work on it, their firmware does react differently as ASTRO P25 is not exactly APCO P25... There is a check box in the ASTRO 25 RSS for disabling non proprietary features, it may helpI have tried both ways and the emergency clearing issue is definitely a questionable compliance issue in ASTRO P25 being APCO P25... I hope the compliance lab testing gets it squared away as to who needs to fix itThere is also a busy channel lockout type hang on PTT attempts on ASTRO25 radios too... when we are in message trunking ( channel assigned per PTT ) mode... the XTS's are blocked from PTT for a longer than optimum time.. Doug KD8B At 01:41 PM 9/8/2009, you wrote: We've encountered this issue between Motorola infrastructure and non-Motorola subscriber units... I believe at the last Daniels Electronics seminar I attended, it had something to do with the consoles fitting the correct status bits for P25 for basic functions, however, the majority of the features that weren't working on the non-Motorola radios were Motorola-specific non-standard status bits being sent from the console. The solution for this was to not use those proprietary functions of the console :( On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Seybold mailto:aseyb...@andrewseybold.comaseyb...@andrewseybold.com wrote: Willhave not seen the problem but if you cannot find a solution I can put you in touch with the right people at Ma/COM, now Harris. Andy From: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mailto:radio5...@aol.comradio5...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:16 AM To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] P25 Problem Trying to help a friend with a problem: Working on a P25 High Band trunking system. Infrastructure is MA/COM. Subscriber units are a mix; EF Johnson, Motorola, and MA/COM. Problem: When an emergency is cleared from the console only the MA/COM radios are automatically cleared. The Motorola and Johnson radios have to be cleared individually at the radio. Anybody dealt with this type of problem? Thanks, Will
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II 900 MHz 10 Channel Repeater System
There is information available to move them to 902-927 if they are 900 Mastr II GeNet900 stations.. It requires assembling a pll loader pcb to load the pll code to make it work on 902/927 instead of commercial. There is little use commercially for it but some limited amateur interest... the problem is one Master Osc.. feeds 10 stations :-) A 10 channel trunk on 902/927 would be amusing but largely not practical :-) I have limited interest as I do have the code written to move to amateur... but shipping would exceed practical $$ for them... While that system probably cost $20.00 new.. it is maybe worth one percent of that today unless you can find a commercial interested party. Doug KD8B At 12:40 PM 9/3/2009, you wrote: I have Inherited a 10 Channel GE MASTR II repeater system, and I am looking for some info or maybe even some interest. The COMB # is S4VTRY0756 There are 5 cabinets each w/ 2 repeaters. (1) of the cabinets also has a Master Oscillator. There also appears to be a separate controller on each repeater with a part # of 19D90186803 Each cabinet has a large top mounted fan and each repeater has its own power supply. I have never been a GE person, so I have no knowledge as to exacly what I have here. Odds are that I would prefer to sell it off as I really don't need it. If anyone can help identify this system and if there is any interest in it I will accept offers. I would prefer to sell it as one complete package, but if there is not any interest, I will entertain selling it in pieces. I thank you in advance for info you can provide. If anyone needs further info or has specific questions, feel free to drop me a line and I'll look at the system and to provide whatever data you need. Feel free to email me offline at mailto:bbfmrf%40yahoo.combbf...@yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] IMTS Channel Designators
I was looking and the various combinations and mapping them.. JL = 55x YL = 95x JP = 57x YP = 97x YJ = 95x YK = 95x JS = 57x YS = 97x YR = 97x JK = 55x KR = 57x These NXX prefix's all map out to routing prefix's that have always been special like 555 for numbers in movies... because they were special routing if at all... in any case they all are on 3 buttons of the keypad... so the combinations were what you could do with those key codes... ( or dial codes back then :-) ) Doug KD8B At 10:29 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote: Well, there, that explains it as good as can be. I recall the days when our phone number started with PL3 (for 753 exchange) and the PL stood for PLeasant. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: William Becks mailto:wbecks%40centurytel.netwbe...@centurytel.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] IMTS Channel Designators Folks, A reasonable explanation can be found at URL: http://www.privateline.com/TelephoneHistory3A/mobile.htmlhttp://www.privateline.com/TelephoneHistory3A/mobile.html on how the Bell System used the two-letter Channel Designators as a prefix to the original MTS 5-digit mobile phone numbers. Later, when IMTS replaced the MTS system, Bell went to a seven digit dialing plan with the first three digits being the NPA (Area Code) for the mobile telephone registry. Bill, WA8WG - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.netwb6...@verizon.net To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:31 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] IMTS Channel Designators Jesse, Actually, those are MTS channel designations; the IMTS came several years after MTS was deployed. The eleven Y and J channels were in the 152-158 MHz VHF band, while there were also ten Z channels in the 35-43 MHz Low band, and six Q channels in the 454-459 MHz UHF band. The low-band channels had an 8 MHz split, VHF channels had a 5.26 MHz split, and UHF channels had a 5 MHz split. The oddball VHF channels were later used for taxicabs. I am currently using two of those VHF channels in commercial repeater service, taking advantage of the small additional separation. Back in 1968, I put a two-channel GE Pacer (gasp!) with a Secode mechanical selector attached, in MTS service back in Rantoul, Illinois. Not too many folks in that part of Illinois had mobile telephones back then, and even fewer had a kluge like a Pacer. Despite its appearance, it worked quite well, and I learned to anticipate when the phone would ring by counting the clicks as the Secode unit stepped. I, too, would like to know the origin of the two-letter channel designators. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Lloyd Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:32 PM To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] IMTS Channel Designators Hey All, I was having a discussion with a fellow tech and the topic of IMTS came up. Does anyone here remember the reason for the strange channel designators? JL YL JP YP YJ YK JS YS YR JK KR ? Why YL... why not channel B or Ch 2, they must mean something... Jesse Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TQ-2310
There is also a ROM module that holds several sets of eproms for each different model of radio.. Some take one some take 2.. it holds 8 proms I think.. if I remember correctly.. At 11:19 AM 8/27/2009, you wrote: I have a working Panasonic RL-H1800 with the: Mini-printer RL-P1004 RS232 interface RL-P3001 Battery Back-up RL-P9003 I/O Adapter RL-P6001 I/O Cable RL-P6006 Acoustic modem RL-P4001 AC Adapter RD-9498 Snap modules (MS BASIC SnapBASIC) 2 Manuals All housed within the RD-9808 atache case. Is this the same as the TQ-2310 suitcase programmer? Am I missing anything? What radios can I program with this (MLS1, MLS2)? I'm a novice so any information would be greatly appreciated.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ENHANCED RECEIVE
This particular commentary seems somewhat inaccurate in saying signal to noise cannot be improved...as even GE offered a factory preamp for the Mastr II in VHF and UHF. The sensitivity spec improvedThey DID NOT suggest using it in a station environment as THEIR preamp overloads very easily in Site conditions As it bolted into the front housing ( just inside the antenna jack) of the receiver, it sure was not offered to correct cable loss. :-) .. This would seem to suggest that a preamp can, and will help ... but as it is subjected to site issues, it needs to be appropriately designed. This is mentioned repeatedly in the hyperlinked documents and various other sites. The noise figure of a stock Mastr II receiving system can definitely be improved upon with a preamp, as can other receivers designed in that time period if done correctly ! Many modern LMR type receivers may NOT improve much, especially if they already have sub .2uv sensitivity to start with. In that case a preamp would likely cause more harm than good unless tower mounted at the antenna (and in that case would be to overcome losses in the feedline as noted below by Dave). Doug KD8B At 07:39 AM 8/19/2009, you wrote: Mike, Pre-amps are fine if you need to reduce feedline and connector loss, for those lucky few that have antennas way up on commercial towers and have significant loss. Otherwise, nada. Signal to noise is not improved and can be effected negatively. Pre-amps can also be easily overloaded by pager and other nearby signals. Lastly, the pre-amps are physically sensitive devices when it comes to EMP...IMHO. If you want to improved receive capture area or coverage think satellite receivers. 73, dave wa3gin - Original Message - From: mailto:wa6...@gmail.comMike Morris WA6ILQ To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:43 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ENHANCED RECEIVE At 07:47 PM 08/18/09, you wrote: I have heard of repeater owners using pre-amps on the receive side of the duplexer and adding 1 pass-reject cavity after the preamp and placing a pre-amp on the pass reject cavity to enhance more receive. Does this work or is it a myth? Artie k2aau Depends on if you have enough headroom in the duplexer and enough system isolation. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/preamps.htmlhttp://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/preamps.html While this is on 900MHz the theory and comments are just as applicable on 2m, 220 and 440. http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/speaking-of-preamps.htmlhttp://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/speaking-of-preamps.html
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR2000 Question
I would also consider it may have been sent in as DD.MM.MMM or DD.MM.SS.S or some alternate variation and may be improperly converted... this can easily happen.. You may want to try to convert it back and forth and wee if one of those is closer... we also have a longitude degree change very close to me.. and straddle both sides with sites we are very careful to watch but it is easy use the wrong one if you are in haste Doug KD8B At 09:27 AM 8/14/2009, you wrote: Here is the real question. What map datum was used for the GPS cordiantes? That may show where the descrepancy is in location. Chris, does the bus repeater cover a larger area than the PD or Maintanance repeaters? If so it will proably be located on a tower somewhere. If so there may be a utility bill or ret bill that is paid by the district office on it. This may take some research working with the person who pays the bills. Also the Direction finding should not be that hard, the biggest challange that you will have is aquiring the UHF directional antenna. It does not have to be a comercial antenna for what you are trying to do, perhaps one of the radio shops you are currently working with has one they would be willing ot loan you. From what I can tell you are in North East Texas so some of the people around there should be able to help. Stan --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Christopher Hodgdon chris.hodg...@kaufman-ares.org wrote: From: Christopher Hodgdon chris.hodg...@kaufman-ares.org Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR2000 Question To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:12 PM Our are located in Texas. The following is the 3 callsigns issued to the district and the frequencies they are paired to, according to the FCC ULS system: WPMR402 FRN # 0001647460 451.750/456. 6. 750 Primary Bus/Emergency Maintenance WPVZ977 158.385/173. 3255 PD Frequency WPWW437 451.725/456. 725 Maintenance Only --- In http://us.mc818.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Maire-Radios maire-radios@ ... wrote: Just looked on the FCC data base and there are 2 school boards in Ca on the 725 freg. 0 on the 750. Need to check you paper work also. - Original Message - From: william...@. .. To: http://us.mc818.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR2000 Question I believe the MTR can only do one tone code at a time. bb In a message dated 8/13/2009 9:19:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time, maire-radios@ ... writes: how about one repeater but different tone codes? or the repeater is at some other location. John - Original Message - From: Christopher Hodgdon To: http://us.mc818.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR2000 Question I wish I had a picture of the repeater house. The frequency listed on the MTR2000 is that of the schools maint. department. The other MTR2000, hook to the other antenna, is the Schools PD. I know those for a fact. Now its time to locate the other repeater system. The only odd ball thing I do know is that every once in a while, when a bus is talking to another bus or dispatch, you get a high squeal walk on over them, but its most likely another drive not paying attention and trying to key their radio. But I wonder if it might be the maint. since their frequency is so close to ours. --- In http://us.mc818.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Gary n6lrv@ wrote: The UHF repeater is likely mismarked or the frequency info you obtained for your school's license is inaccurate. The UHF repeater is likely the school's repeater. As mentioned earlier the MTR2000 is a multi-channel radio but can only repeat on the channel it is left on. Recommend you find a dealer or tech experienced with the MTR and who has the software necessary to configure it. Have them download its codeplug. Recommend you do the same with your school radios. A comparison of the data will likely answer a lot. Gary -Original Message- From: http://us.mc818.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hodgdon Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:29 PM To: http://us.mc818.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola MTR2000 Question Here's the deal, I work for a local school
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Isolator vs intermod panel?
Paul; In general all of the Intermod panels I have seen have a bandpass filter too...not just an isolator. As for before or after.. It needs to be on the antenna side of the PA to do it's job.. Intermod panels are about suppressing any regenerated energy from others... which are antenna side issues. Doug KD8B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kelley N1BUG Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 5:16 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Isolator vs intermod panel? I guess I was lucky in my first few years as a repeater owner. Lately I have nothing but grief in many forms. (Yeah I know, welcome to the real world!) Can someone tell me in basic terms what is the difference between an isolator and an intermod suppression panel which contains an isolator? If one has a high power tube PA on a repeater, I assume he would need to use a high power isolator or intermod panel after the PA? Or would it be sufficient to use a lower power one between the solid state exciter and tube PA? Thanks... Paul N1BUG No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.20/2249 - Release Date: 07/19/09 17:59:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap
Jon; Using the dsb dongle which is a CM108 chip based usb audio interface one of the internal I/O pins of the device is mapped for each ptt and cor.. BUT.. COR is not really needed as the device DSP can handle signal to noise squelch and will work better on its own on raw discriminator.. PTT is required and if you build your own dongle.. you add a ptt transistor inside the device... It is a USB Sound FOB... I ordered 5 of them for about $7.00 ea... Information on the modifications is published... Google CM108 usb sound fob app_rpt and you should find several links.. or start at the allstar link page.. Doug Jon Bivin - WB0VTM wrote: hey Doug, How is COR and PTT accomplished on this? Is it through the dongle? Or the comports? Thanks, Jon - WB0VTM - Original Message - *From:* Doug Bade mailto:k...@thebades.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:08 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ROIP - Cheap
There is an extension to asterisk called app_rpt. It can run with conferences or not or you can build your own conference bridge. It uses sub 10.00 USB dongles for the radio interface. AllStarLink etc are just conference bridges and registries offering packaged install distros but the underlying install software is an app_rpt extension. You can install it on any linux distro or use ready made versions. I suspect it will do what you want... but there is a learning curve... I am currently playing with a distro called Limey Linux which is made for embedded Flash type installs.. like SD cards or CF cards.. 128mb size area. I am using a D945GCLF motherboard.. sub 100 with cpu and ram.. In any case the application is probably very suitable for your needs.. and free There is also are companies that produce apps like XIPAR... there are free parts and chargeable parts.. but looks like they offer the bridge software too.. If you want to stick with telephony the app_rpt system will work with FXS,FXO and similar cards for radio interfaces.. but the usb dongles are capable of handling much lower level interface to the radio at baseband..and do ctcss etc in the DSP They are all based on the connectivity of asterisk so sounds like you are familiar with that part. Doug wa5jxy wrote: OK, I have searched the ROIP posts, and I have to say all the posts I have viewed just miss the point of what I am looking for. Yes, there are MANY ROIP commercial product related posts. All What I am looking for is a SIMPLE and CHEAP solution for ROIP for AMATEUR service. OK, I understand the commercial product line and the need for small business solutions (). Raytheon NXU etc. What about the amateur service trying to break into the ROIP solution? I built a P25 repeater for amateur service just because the technology is there. It works and is cheaper than buying a complete P25 commercial repeater. Now I want to build a ROIP interface similar to IRLP and Echolink without a central server owned by someone else. I have the dedicated fiber infrastructure (10GB backbone) in place I can utilize for ROIP. What I need is a schematic so I can build my own ROIP cards for PC or a cheap already built card available on ebay. There must be a Asterisk and cheap card solution out there. Anybody already done this? I have an Asterisk PBX server already built and working. Anybody set up Asterisk for ROIP and what card(s) did you use? I see then for $159 on ebay but I already have MANY parts and can build them cheaper, but still need a schematic or pre-built card. If not, how about starting a discussion to do this? My goal is to link several repeaters via ROIP other than echolink or IRLP. Thanks! Neil WA5JXY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Links using Motorola Tone Remote Wireline method over IP
There are several off the shelf solutions for radio linking over the internet.. Linux based mostly but free software and excellent at what they do.. Radio world protocols are not the best for transporting over low bandwidth (I.E. UDP) based solutions. Between the two radio world solutions ( while I would not really suggest either) voting tone as opposed to tone control keying would be a better option as tone control keying is not fault tolerant to line dropouts.. which are inherent in audio streaming .. at least in low bandwidth solutions... Absence of tone on a tone control line during a ptt ( or active cor) will cause an unrecoverable drop... In voter tone control.. drops in bits will cause a drop in processed audio.. but will recover as long as voice is present and random during any roughly 6 second window. In the later case the tone on the line is only there when rx is NOT.. so worst case false votes during inactive cor ... but not dropouts. Doug At 01:58 PM 6/24/2009, you wrote: Wondering if anyone has ever linked two Motorola repeaters together using the Tone Remote Wireline methodology (2175 Guard Tone, specific function tones, etc) over IP? Normally these links are run via dedicated microwave links or T1 lines (i.e. on all the time). I'm thinking perhaps of using VoIP or simply media player style audio streams where when one machine is active it sends the command tones and audio to the other one. IRLP or Echolink could be an external option, but why not use the built-in native interface that has worked for many years since the connection to the repeater is fairly simple. This would be for region-to-region linking so voter timings, etc aren't being considered. Thanks, Tony
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Completely Stumped on Noise (UHF Repeater)
Operating a VHF or UHF stationary repeater in a potentially high RF environment ( i.e. other repeaters nearby) with a mobile style receiver ( maxtrac ) and no filtering of any kind ( Like a bandpass/reject duplexer) is not a suggested configuration in my world.. In many sites this will yield interference from other nearby repeaters due to RF overload... Unshielded cables for mic wires and rx vol hi wires in a high RF environment is also not suggested. Mobile duplexers ( not suggested in this case) are designed to protect you from yourself and pretty much that is all they do... but in a station duplexer with pass/reject filtering .. it is designed to protect your receiver from overload from just about all sources besides a mobile or portable within a couple hundred kiloherts.. and any of that off freq is supposed to be filtered by your I.F. filters.. They are suggested for many other reasons besides a single antenna solutionif the interference is overload.. it would probably help... Alternately try a bandpass filter on your rx, if that does not help, then the source of the interference is probably another transmitter... and without friendly support from the owner may be difficult to resolve... Doug KD8B At 11:10 AM 6/23/2009, you wrote: The receive radio has a 20 ft piece of RG-58 Belden and the TX radio has 40 ft of LMR 400. After I had already purchased and installed the LMR braid cable I then learned to my knowledge this was not recomended for duplex use and it could cause noise and other problems but there is no LMR on the receive end of the radio and it still does it when the TX radio is turned off. --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: Like Nate said, sounds like an intermod product with your transmitter being part of the mix. My standard question has become -- are you using any LMR400, 9913 or similar foil/braid coax anywhere in your system? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: agrimm0034 agrimm0...@... To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:24 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Completly Stumped on Noise (UHF Repeater) This noise in my repeater has me completly stumped. I've tried everything I know possible to make it stop but nothing has helped. Here are some quick specs on what my repeater is... GMRS repeater RX 467.600 TX 462.600 DPL 054 TX 30 watts. My local repeater when I key opens up to a scratchy noise with the local police department in the background. It ONLY opens up when they key up the same time my repeater is being keyed. It is not perfectly clear it is scratchy but I have no idea how they are squeezing in on myn. I did find there frequency's and location of there repeater so mabye someone can help tell me what is wrong. Here is the Police Dept Repeater Details... PD Repeater - RX 460.4500 TX 465.4500 PL 6A 75 watt. (There tower is also located directly across from mine roughly 1/2 mile horizontally separated.) I've also tried changing my frequency and PL tones and it still has not made one bit of difference. I'f someone could help me out I'd gladly appreciate it. Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Noise on UHF
app_rpt is a possible.. if you have the hardware .. if not the interfaces are pretty reasonable... Doug At 01:27 PM 6/18/2009, you wrote: I can always tell when the AWACS are flying near our area Our C-band digital satellite signals crap out every ten seconds or so... My boss keeps telling me to fix the uplink transmitter I keep telling him to buy the bandpass filter Sorry for the off-topic... I STILL am looking for a good-FREE software to link two sites via ROIP. I have a local LAN with a microwave setup between sites about 2 miles apart. Receiver one end, transmitter the other. Need to send COR and audio over ROIP to control TX on the other end. Seems like it aught to be simple... -Jon
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 900MHZ MASTR II
Dan; They are quite useable on 927/902. You need to have the reference oscillator which there was one for every 5 stations.. I hope you have it??? Anyhow.. I wrote some Atmel code for a PLL loader for it. If you want to build a loader you can take control of the PLL. The GETC is a sideline issue but could have an AEGIS prom put in it for digital voice if you were so inclined... There are 2 on the air for sure that I ma aware of... and one other in the works that I have spoken to the owner of. I have a schematic for the loader. It interfaces to the PLL control leads in the exciter door... It monitors Lock detect as well as loads words for the rx and tx... If you are interested in none of the above.. I would like to talk about getting ownership and custody :-) Doug KD8B At 07:37 PM 3/26/2009, you wrote: Is there any good use for a 900MHZ MASTR II? I have one with the GETC controller attached. I have looked over all the info I can find and do not see a good way to make this thing work on the ham band. My question is, Is the repeater junk other than the PA? I have a MSF-5000 on 902 and that was a breeze. Just wondering before I start junking it out to make room in my garage for the other 4 MASTR II repeaters I picked up. They are all VHF and UHF. Thanks Dan
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel dipole array sweeps
The link is broken if you try to use it as it came through.. the space in the file name is the killer... http://www.broadsci.com/Antenna%20Sweeps%20r1.pdf is the correct link Doug At 03:31 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: mailto:no6b%40no6b.comn...@no6b.com wrote: At 3/22/2009 11:32, you wrote: The document can be found here: http://www.broadsci.com/Antennahttp://www.broadsci.com/Antenna Sweeps r1.pdf I get a The file is damaged could not be repaired error. And I get a 404 Page not found error. Paul
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel dipole array sweeps
Jeff; This is very interesting findings especially in that using an antenna longer than your freq tends to exhibit down tilt... that 440 use of a 450 antenna seems to be working in the correct direction. I for one found it very interesting to read It may be real interesting to see some of the amateur antennas tested too as multiband ones seem to rarely work very well on the upper bands compared to the lower bands of those I have seen Doug At 02:32 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: I'm in the process of putting up a remote receiver for a 440 ham repeater using a Decibel DB413 dipole array cut for 450-470 MHz. Since Decibel/Andrew stopped making the 440-450 MHz custom models, I've used the usual 450-470 split antennas for receive sites, and they've performed well. I swept the DB413, and it measured as I expected. While I had the Sitemaster out, I grabbed a few other Decibel dipole arrays out of the warehouse and swept them and prepared a little document. Since the topic of using commercial-band antennas on amateur frequencies comes up fairly often, I figured these measurements might be of some interest to list members. I tested these antennas with them mounted above ground level, and away from nearby objects, with the Sitemaster connected right to the pigtail so what you're seeing is the true return loss at the feedpoint. I'll continue to test more antennas (not just DB dipole arrays) over time and continue to add them to this document. I have gobs of sweeps of antennas, but unfortunately many of them were swept at the bottom end of heliax runs rather than right at the feedpoint. From now on I'll make it a point to sweep them on the ground this way. The antennas I tested in this first batch are: DB413, 450-470 MHz DB408D, 450-470 MHz DB411, 450-470 MHz DB411, 406-420 MHz Note that the DB408D is actually two DB404's on a common mast, each with its own pigtail/feedpoint, so there are separate plots for the upper antenna and lower antenna. Its performance wasn't what I expected. I have more of the same model of antenna, I'll try to test one of the others the next time. The document can be found here: http://www.broadsci.com/Antennahttp://www.broadsci.com/Antenna Sweeps r1.pdf If anyone finds this useful please let me know, so I know whether or not it's worth the time/effort to continue to test antennas and add them to the doc. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel dipole array sweeps
Joe; The original posted file name had spaces in between Antenna, Sweeps, and r1 ...and some or all windows client email programs likley displayed as he sent it... Mine did but I spotted it as it showed as fractured hyperlink... Foxfire my have corrected it in your case. When I COPIED ( as in copy and paste) it into IE it inserted the %20's.. but if you launched it as a hyperlink directly it dropped everything after the first space... as being not part of the file name.. hence the broken links some found Doug At 04:16 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: That's strange. I'm using Foxfire 3.0.7 and the original link was OK. Joe Doug Bade wrote: The link is broken if you try to use it as it came through.. the space in the file name is the killer... http://www.broadsci.com/Antenna%20Sweeps%20r1.pdfhttp://www.broadsci.com/Antenna%20Sweeps%20r1.pdf
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel dipole array sweeps
Jeff; What is your thoughts on the radiation launch angle in this case if beam tilt does not suffer/gain ??? I have a case in point of a wideband 406-470 uhf sinclair dipole 310C4.. on VHF as the elements are larger than vhf needs ??? in other words using it on both vhf and uhf assuming reasonable vswr Doug At 04:17 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: For a parallel-fed (aka binary-fed, corporate-fed, etc.) antenna, if all of the elements are fed in-phase (i.e. the branches in the phasing harness are all the same length), as it typical with most dipole arrays, there won't be any uptilt/downtilt as you vary the transmitter frequency outside of the design range a bit. No matter what the frequency of the carrier is, it's always going to hit the elements in-phase, so there won't be any beamtilt. This is constrast to an end-fed (series-fed) collinear, where you will get UPTILT if transmitting at a frequency ABOVE the antenna's design range, and DOWNTILT if transmitting at a frequency BELOW the antenna's design range. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:10 PM To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel dipole array sweeps Jeff; This is very interesting findings especially in that using an antenna longer than your freq tends to exhibit down tilt... that 440 use of a 450 antenna seems to be working in the correct direction. I for one found it very interesting to read It may be real interesting to see some of the amateur antennas tested too as multiband ones seem to rarely work very well on the upper bands compared to the lower bands of those I have seen Doug At 02:32 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: I'm in the process of putting up a remote receiver for a 440 ham repeater using a Decibel DB413 dipole array cut for 450-470 MHz. Since Decibel/Andrew stopped making the 440-450 MHz custom models, I've used the usual 450-470 split antennas for receive sites, and they've performed well. I swept the DB413, and it measured as I expected. While I had the Sitemaster out, I grabbed a few other Decibel dipole arrays out of the warehouse and swept them and prepared a little document. Since the topic of using commercial-band antennas on amateur frequencies comes up fairly often, I figured these measurements might be of some interest to list members. I tested these antennas with them mounted above ground level, and away from nearby objects, with the Sitemaster connected right to the pigtail so what you're seeing is the true return loss at the feedpoint. I'll continue to test more antennas (not just DB dipole arrays) over time and continue to add them to this document. I have gobs of sweeps of antennas, but unfortunately many of them were swept at the bottom end of heliax runs rather than right at the feedpoint. From now on I'll make it a point to sweep them on the ground this way. The antennas I tested in this first batch are: DB413, 450-470 MHz DB408D, 450-470 MHz DB411, 450-470 MHz DB411, 406-420 MHz Note that the DB408D is actually two DB404's on a common mast, each with its own pigtail/feedpoint, so there are separate plots for the upper antenna and lower antenna. Its performance wasn't what I expected. I have more of the same model of antenna, I'll try to test one of the others the next time. The document can be found here: http://www.broadsci.com/Antennahttp://www.broadsci.com/Antenna http://www.broadsci.com/Antenna http://www.broadsci.com/Antennahttp://www.broadsci.com/Antenna http://www.broadsci.com/Antenna Sweeps r1.pdf If anyone finds this useful please let me know, so I know whether or not it's worth the time/effort to continue to test antennas and add them to the doc. --- Jeff WN3A No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1970 - Release Date: 03/21/09 17:58:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel dipole array sweeps
The link is broken due to the space in the name... The actual url is http://www.broadsci.com/Antenna%20Sweeps%20r1.pdf Doug this may be a dup.. my outbound mail seems to be randomly getting delayed.. At 03:31 PM 3/22/2009, you wrote: mailto:no6b%40no6b.comn...@no6b.com wrote: At 3/22/2009 11:32, you wrote: The document can be found here: http://www.broadsci.com/Antennahttp://www.broadsci.com/Antenna Sweeps r1.pdf I get a The file is damaged could not be repaired error. And I get a 404 Page not found error. Paul
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Split site link via IP
Brian; In general VOIP as an audio link is not very stable if you do not control the bandwidth loading of the Link. There are technologies like TDM over IP that have much less jitter and dropout issues.. but it still is reliant on the IP link being stable and not overloaded as well as not interfered with. VOIP is essential not going to be very real time and as a udp protocol is not very error correcting...The delays and dropouts may or may not be worth your effort... http://allstarlink.org/ these folks have a network application which could serve your needs.. but inherent system delays may still be more than you are willing to use on a repeater.. There generally is no provision for voting multiple receivers in any technology based on IP besides TDM over IP.. and that requires good link bandwidth controls.. The allstarlink IP based repeater controller is pretty cool. I am building a node at one of my sites.. but linking is subject to network delays.. Doug KD8B At 10:42 AM 3/9/2009, you wrote: My repeater group is considering building split-site 6m machine. As an inter-site link, I was thinking of using some sort of VOIP arrangement via the internet. I'm curious if anyone has tried something like this: My idea is to use a point-to-point, private link (i.e. not IRLP or Echo) to pump audio and maybe even some signaling between sites. The receive site would consist of the receive radio, controller (most likely an Arcom), and a PC to do the encoding/streaming. The transmit site would consist of a PC to decode the audio stream, a PL decoder for TX logic, and the TX radio. The basic premise would be to take audio from the RX (PL filtered), fed thru the controller, mixed with link PL, and fed to the PC's audio input. The PC then streams the audio over the internet to the RX site PC, where it is decoded and fed to the TX radio, which will be keyed by a PL decoder (provided the IP encode/decode process hasn't mangled the PL). Whew... Now, question is: will it work? Or more properly, has anyone made this work? I'm going to try it on a small scale just to prove concept, but I'm curious if anyone has tried this already. My intention is to use something along the lines of Winamp with Shoutcast or Windows Media Encoder to stream the audio. I'd rather find a Linux-based CLI encoder if such an animal exists. I had thought about using IRLP nodes as endpoints, but IRLP policy would preclude that. Thoughts? Encouragement? FTW is he THINKING?!?! ;) I'd be interested in the group's thoughts, and I'll report the results of my experiments. Thanks 73, Brian, N4BWP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] exec I vs exec II
Basically the name and the general form factor are the only similarities. The hardware is completely different. 2 different generations of design. Nothing interchangeable except the microphone and that is only on some of them. Later mics on exec II were different Doug At 05:06 PM 3/3/2009, you wrote: Anyone have a short version of the differences between an exec I station and an exec II station? Are the innards swappable? Thanks for your time. Chris Kb0wlf
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Battery Desulphator for deep cycle batterys
Tom; I would use a dedicated charger and management device by one of the solar vendors, such as Xantrex or Morningside, as they are priced at consumer ( more or less ) pricing and competitive vendors.. and are some pretty well designed stuff... Many of them have internal de-sulphate processes that are managed along with normal charging in sometimes even automated intervals.. As there charging is well managed, they minimize the need of shake-off fix's. They are sized in many sizes based on your requirements... Doug At 11:24 AM 2/26/2009, you wrote: Anyone have any info on a what brand Battery Desulphator to buy? tom (\__/) ... (='.'=) ()_()
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Also transmitter power on Digital seems to be 10db less or more. An engineer here indicates many HDTV transmitters are 1500w output...plus antenna system.. ERP is a lot less in most cases.. Said engineer indicated the industry may be going to push for 6kw nozzle power after all is up and running and they can sort out what is what... This is all from unofficial armchair conversations and may vary by locale Doug At 02:51 AM 2/23/2009, you wrote: If the digital is on a very different frequency, then the frequency change is a reason why digital reception may be problematic. For example, if you are using a VHF antenna to try to receive a UHF digital signal, that will be problematic. -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:14:14 PM PST From: wd8chl mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.comwd8...@gmail.com To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work That's the gripe. If I put up an antenna that works fine for analog, there is no excuse for it NOT to work with digital, except that digital must be crap. Rf is RF. Virtually everybody I have talked to has had nothing but problems with DTV. Invariably they get fewer channels, and stations that are good to excellent in analog can frequently be unwatchable in digital. To see a digital as reliably as an analog is the exception, not the rule.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] M/A-Comm M7100 Interface
Scott; It is the same as Orion It also depends on exactly what cables and/or connector you are pulling from... External PTT and COR need to be mapped in software to external I/O pins.. not all appear on each cable One downside, as of most recent info I have, there is no constant audio output eq to vol hi per-se... it is all subject to control of the volume control. Local volume affects remote volume... Doug KD8B At 06:18 PM 2/21/2009, you wrote: Can anyone out on the list provide pinouts for the accessory connector on a M7100 mobile? I could like to get TX and RX audio as well as PTT and COS. Thanks, Scott
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radiating leaky cables and repeaters
They ( in line rf amps) are commonly used in mines. They are bi-directional amps. Those I am familiar with split the vhf band in half... one half goes each way with filters to allow bi-directional duplex.. Mine Site Technology is one vendor The whole system operates under 5 watts... I guess that is a max power level according to some mine regulations, at least here in the US. The radio systems are duplex repeaters and work quite well.. Power for the amps is injected into the coax from one end but their are injectors and isolators installed periodically if the DC losses get too low.. On VHF the amps for one vendor are every 1500 feet or so...but it depends on gain and power and the size of the mine shaft.. Doug KD8B At 10:19 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote: I don't think I've ever seen an amplifier along a leaky coax system. Since the holes in the coax are 2-way, the downstream amp would also amplify anything that leaked INTO the coax before it. That would cause lots of interference as well as oscillation from the output of the amp to the input. Now, if it was solid coax from the antenna to the in-line amp, I could see that working. I think most systems today use fiber to get to the new RF source that would then feed indoor antennas or leaky coax. So, one outside antenna, RF to light on many fiber strands. In the tunnel, as one leaky coax runs out of signal, another strand of fiber (or optical directional coupler) would start another span of leaky coax. Again, I could be wrong about the re-amplification, just never seen a system like that myself. Ray --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kabjik777 kabjik...@... wrote: Dear all, I am a student currently researching on radiating leaky coaxial cables. I do understand that in long tunnels where radiating leaky coaxial cables are used, repeaters are placed at various points of the cable. I want to know what is the average distance between the repeaters. I will be glad if somone tell me or share a link with information as regards to this. I will also like to know the acceptable signal degradation per km? for example is it 15dB/km or 13dB/km? Thanks in advance. Bansoboy.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radiating leaky cables and repeaters
That would depend on the frequency. All coaxial cables including radiax type cables have specific attenuation loss figures per 100 feet published...You need to determine the initial power, the amount of loss allowed before re-amplifying, then the amplifier gain added and losses to the next hop. The other parameter is how much energy you need outside the cable for how far as this will determine the initial launch power needed. It is all a mathematical balance based on needed signal and loss in cable vs gain of the amps... I do not think there is one answer Cable diameters are also chosen based on acceptable loss per mile/km. These are all engineering choices, not cast in stone.. Doug KD8B At 08:08 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote: Dear all, I am a student currently researching on radiating leaky coaxial cables. I do understand that in long tunnels where radiating leaky coaxial cables are used, repeaters are placed at various points of the cable. I want to know what is the average distance between the repeaters. I will be glad if somone tell me or share a link with information as regards to this. I will also like to know the acceptable signal degradation per km? for example is it 15dB/km or 13dB/km? Thanks in advance. Bansoboy.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Suggestions for Gel Cell Charging - Large Array
That was the general gist... The Charge controller will pass dc through from the charger or in this case the power supply to the load under normal operations, but be aware of the maximum current flow needed for the repeater as well as the batteries for charging.. a large stack of batteries has different charge rates and floats per battery... paralleling them makes for messy charging... Everything assumes each battery will charge/discharge at the same rate.. if the batts are matched this is true.. but 12v batts tend to be made up of several cells and those individual cells age differently in most batteries... assumptions will boil a cell and avalanche from thereOne larger battery is better than several smaller batteries... or put a separate charger on smaller groups... A big bank of say 8 90a/hr batts is going to take a lot of charge and that level could hurt the weakest cell in the lot under full bulk charge.. the deadest batt will take current first but 800 a/hr worth of batts will take a long time to recover if a discharge occurs...at 30 amps... sustained like 24hrs... if you double the charge current with a bigger charger.. you could be charging one battery at 60 amps.. and you should be real careful about that... Most serious battery stacks are series arrangements.. and higher voltage but flat current through the system... then run a UPS to get to 110v Many of Trace Engineering (Xantrex) and other makers of UPS type Inverters use 4 12v batts in series for 48v... the invert to 110v.. Series and higher voltage uses smaller wire gauges to accomplish backup... I would recommend talking to vendors before paralleling 10 batteries on a 12v charge controller...I would think some additional engineering would be suggested... Paralleling 200-300 amp batts is one thing.. paralleling 80-90 amp gel cells is another matter... especially 10 of them... Surplus is not necessarily a bargain Doug KD8B At 10:48 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote: AJ wrote: snip I know in a recent conversation here on RB, one of the users had a Solar Charge Controller inline between his 12 volt power supply (in our case a GE Mastr II 30 amp supply) and the actual repeater equipment. That was me askin' the questions, and Doug doin' all the answerin'. :-) Basically, what he (and others) advised was to make sure of the maximum charge rate on your batteries, and to not exceed that charge rate. Doing so causes heat buildup in the batteries and will over time boil them dry, causing failure. Google Xantrax (I think that is how it is spelled) solar charger and you should find what you want. Your application is exactly the same as ours, except we are probably only looking at 8 hours. After that, we can pull one of our trucks up to the site and use jumper cables if it is still out... Anything to add Doug? Mike KA4MKG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
I do not largely recommend the Astron BB series for proper battery maintenance. The issue is the charge voltage is directly related to the operating voltage so to se the appropriate float voltage you need to tweak the operating voltage pot to a lower level and the charge current is strictly resistive limited...A simple choice but not a good one for long term proper operation of the battery... Our Trace Engineering charger/controller has 22000 current amps passed through it over the last number of years and the original batteries are still there... they were good batteries to start with and they are non vented UPS type... 5 years or so at this point...Trace Engineering is now known as Xantrex..I think... Real Charge controllers on real UPS type batteries have very tight control on bulk, float and maintenance charge cycles to optimize charge for your particular battery and work VERY well for a rather insignificant amount of money in the big picture... The BULK charge is fed straight through from your Power supply and is regulated by the Charge Controller... The station will largely run on the power supply but as I said it is used as a source to the battery charger.. not the source to the station... Size it all correctly and you will never revisit the problem again Astron's are good sources ... but lousy chargers on their own.. at least that is my opinion... Doug KD8B At 07:33 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote: Doug Bade wrote: The loaded voltage is about 12.5 to 12.8 comparable to what would be in the trunk of a car starting at 13.8 at the battery alternator connection.. including voltage drop... That was the design anyhow... Astron's or eq are some what of a problem as they really do not sag at all.. 13.8 all day all night all nice The club is talking about building a battery band that will be somewhere around 400ah at 12vcd. they want to buy some smart charger that puts out 5a. I tried to explain at the club meeting last night that should be battery bank go completely down because of an extended power outage, that a 5a charger would take 80+ hours to bring the batteries back up, and it woul probably take longer than that if the repeater was on during the charge. I was thinking about a rs50BB or the like, but wasn't sure what the MastrII needed if 13.8 would be too much.. That's the basis of the original question. I chose a different route at work and built a battery stack with a trace engineering charge controller float charging the batteries active all the time using a astron or eq as the charger source.. The trace engineering controller ( from the solar world) does the charge maintenance etc like no aftermarket tool I have found for eq moneyI think it was a Model C40 or C65... maybe a C30 would do... all are different current specs... Back we go to Google for product specs. Thanks for the idea! 73 Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
Mid power Mastr II stations used 15 amp factory power supplies...100w stations used 30 amp power supples.. so.. probably less than 15 amps.. maybe 10-12.. Reducing the voltage to 12.8 from the batteries will significantly lower the output power relative to 13.8v power supplies too..Factory power supplies are designed to collapse on voltage to about 12.5 vdc or so..at rated power load... Doug KD8B At 03:08 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote: Ok, the Elmer fully retuned the Mastr2 mid power repeater on Sunday and has it tuned for roughly 26 watts out of the P/A... This is a 40 watt P/A. What will this station typically draw current-wise? Right now it's fed off of a 30 amp supply (major overkill) but we'd like to have a rough idea on amp draw to calculate standby time off of batteries. Thanks! -AJ, K6LOR On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:45 AM, AJ mailto:aj.grant...@gmail.comaj.grant...@gmail.com wrote: Charles: Any idea what your current draw was when you had it tuned down to 10 watts? I've been doing the alignment directly off of the exciter (250 mw off of the RCA jack on the drawer) but the power output doesn't match the needs of the mobile usage. Thanks! 73s, AJ, K6LOR
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Master II Pa decks
The loaded voltage is about 12.5 to 12.8 comparable to what would be in the trunk of a car starting at 13.8 at the battery alternator connection.. including voltage drop... That was the design anyhow... Astron's or eq are some what of a problem as they really do not sag at all.. 13.8 all day all night all nice I chose a different route at work and built a battery stack with a trace engineering charge controller float charging the batteries active all the time using a astron or eq as the charger source.. The trace engineering controller ( from the solar world) does the charge maintenance etc like no aftermarket tool I have found for eq moneyI think it was a Model C40 or C65... maybe a C30 would do... all are different current specs... Doug At 03:53 PM 2/10/2009, you wrote: Doug Bade wrote: Mid power Mastr II stations used 15 amp factory power supplies...100w stations used 30 amp power supples.. so.. probably less than 15 amps.. maybe 10-12.. Apparently I am going to be inheriting the care and feeding of some MastrII's. First order of business is to get battery backup going on one of them. Is the loaded voltage of the factory supplies 13.8, or something close? I need to know what I am going to be dealing with. Thanks! Mike KA4MKG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Old 220-222Mhz ACSSB system parts usable?
The file area of this group :-) At 03:49 PM 1/2/2009, you wrote: Log in WHERE? Can't figure out what group this is in. WalterH KD7BJJ http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oopo7l2/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=groups/S=1705063108:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1230936566/L=/B=ZHrIgkLaX.Q-/J=1230929366333064/A=5191954/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/for Moderators on the Yahoo! Groups team blog. .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: VXR 7000 with desense
Rick That pretty much sounds like a inadequate duplexer or a dirty transmitter making noise.. You might check hamonics as they may sneak through the duplexer with enough power to desense the rx... initially it sounds like the tx is pretty clean but something is getting through to the rx I would connect the spec an to the rx port of the duplexer and watch to see what jumps with ptt pushes... look at harmonics and open the window... any jump at the noise floor would be suspect... Doug At 04:56 PM 12/18/2008, you wrote: Thanks to all who have responded. A quick up date. Putting the dummy load on the TX port of the repeater (replace the duplexer with a dummy load) has shown that the repeater works without cycling - so my initial thought of something going on inside the repeater is out the window... (Thanks Doug) If is was spurious TX trash while the transmitter was coming up, then after we overcame the desense with the service monitor and the TX stabilized, then when we turned the service monitor back down, the TX should have stayed on, but it didn't and started to cycle again Still racking the grey cells, Rick, N5RB --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, pontotochs pontoto...@... wrote: Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VXR 7000 with desense
Rick; I think you need to isolate whether it is tx through the duplexer or something else bothering the rx and or squelch. It sounds like the tx signal fundamentally is clean from your analysis so far.. in order to isolate through the duplexer, connect the tx directly to a dummy load instead of it's side of the duplexer while injecting rx into the duplexer. if it does not cycle, the tx is sending something through the duplexer to the rxif it does cycle.. it is an internal issue as you suspect.. I would use the tx to duplexer cable in the dummy load path as you want to see if some radiation from it is part of the equation. I lean more to spurious on initial keyup... causing a noise burst maybe due to exciter tuning... but this test should tell you if it is conducted internally or passed through the duplexer. Doug KD8B At 05:04 PM 12/17/2008, you wrote: Hi, I've checked the previous posts on this issue, but I am hoping that there is more light to be shed. We have a VXR 7000 that has had issues for a while as a two meter repeater. In the shop we set it up with its DB 4026 duplexer and 50 ohm dummy load and monitored the output power with a Bird thru line watt meter. We used a service monitor to inject the RX signal to get 10 dB quieting (approx 0.2 micro volt). Put the unit into repeat mode and the repeater will cycle (go in and out of transmit) until the RX signal is increased about 20 to 25 dB (approx 3.6 micro volt). Looking at what is coming in the receive port with the transmitter is keyed is about -75 dBw (50 watt out with about 95 dB of isolation) at the TX frequency, and there is little to no hash at the RX frequency - seeing the noise floor of the spectrum analyzer (-120 dB). Put the 7000 into base station mode, hooked up second signal source, set first signal source to give 10 dB quieting at the RX frequency (0.2 uV), set the second signal source to emulate what we saw from the duplexer (79 mV at TX frequency) and there was no desense. Increased the simulated TX voltage to better than 1 volt and still no desense. My thought is that something has gone bad internally within the 7000. Is there something else I need to try? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, Rick, N5RB
Re: [Repeater-Builder] External control of Mastr IIe pl encode?
Dave; I am not familiar with an external encode disable on the Mastr IIe. The easiest external method might be to put a 2n7000 FET or IRF5xx type device across the encode audio and a logic high pullup on the gate will clamp the source to the drain, (with the drain connected to the ground side of the encode pair)...at close to 0 ohms. This should kill any encode instantly and release as soon as the gate is released. FET's transit almost instantly, more like a switch, than a npn transistor. Alternately gate the encode through a relay or 4066 gate on the way to the exciter. I would not absolutely say there is no external encode disable pin'ed out, but then I never specifically looked. Doug KD8B At 02:55 AM 11/25/2008, you wrote: Does anyone know the trick/pin/programming to controlling the pl encode (channel guard) on a Mastr IIe with external logic? I have a UHF repeater that has the pl encode follows the pl decode and am slaving a 2m Mastr IIe to it thru a NHRC5. All the logic is present in the NHRC5 to do this as it has an output for control of a pl encoder. I am leaving the controller in the Mastr IIe active so that its port can be turned off in the NHRC5 and become a stand alone repeater when needed. No bells and whistles in its controller but it takes care of pl decode/encode, short tail and auto cw IDer. When it is slaved to the NHRC5 and its UHF repeater all the IDs, and courtesy tones will be going out with the pl encoder active as it currently stands. What I want to do is to control the MastrIIe pl encoder so that it follows the UHF repeaters PL decoder when they are slaved together. Figured out how to cause the PL encoder of the UHF repeater to follow the pl decoder of both radios when connected together easily enough. So where to tie logic in to control the encoder in the Mastr IIe? On the backplane P3 pins B6 and C12 look promising but so far no luck. Perhaps I am missing something in the programming of the Mastr IIe controller? I can turn the CG encode on and off in the programming for the local PTT options, just have not found what pin to control for turning the local PTT CG encoder on/off. The reason behind all this is so that we can run tone squelch and never hear any house keeping signaling, ie, IRLP and echolink connections stay devoid of long key ups, noise, etc.. Oh, did it mention that it is a MastrIIe? :-) Thanks for any help on this, hopefully sooner then later as I am racing the snow level to get this project up in its home before its snowed in. -Dave, KB7SVP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] racom 1300 identifier manual wanted
Yes Jim is correct.. 1300 needed a prom.. 1400 was dipswitch, The 1400 had the fancy features, the 1300 was stripped down to basics and offered to amateur as well as commercial.. as more of an entry level box... the newer units have pc programming if I am not mistaken, but the 1300 and 1400 predate PC's... :-) You will need to order the prom from them as there was never field info released to make your own. But the data in the prom was fairly easy to dissect if you wanted to roll your own.. assuming you have stuff to read and edit them... I used to be a tech there.. :-) Doug At 07:57 PM 10/7/2008, you wrote: Garry W Tidler wrote: need information on a Racom model 1300 Morse Code Station Identifier Building a backup repeater for the K9TRC/R which is down at this time. Need: Manual Software ? interface cable ? What do I need to program this indentifier? Garry WW9GT Well, here's the web site for starters: http://www.racominc.com/http://www.racominc.com/ Its been a long time, but as I remember, all but the 1400 series were PROM based, so you would need a PROM burner. I also don't remember what type of PROM it was, other than I'm also fairly certain it was NOT an erasable EPROM. Not sure if you can still get them. But I bet the company would still do it. The 1400 series was dip-switch programmable.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] HELP! 2nd try GE Mastr II 900Mhz
Dan; I can be of some assistance... I am not aware of anything actually called a 900 mastr II it was called a GE Net 900 station and was a business format similar to edacs... There were 900 mhz stations called Mastr Prism as well...but sounds like you have the former. It requires an external ref osc connection of something like 17.64 mhz... to run the tx and rx. The system controller is called a GETC and provides for all analog and digital processing at 4800 baud over the air control data rate. it is a 1u slide out rack unit directly atop the station. The station will work fine for 900 ham if you take control of the PLL and disable freq control from GETC and/or local binary switches attached on top of the synthesized exciter inside the door. In both instalations I am aware of the GETC was completely disconnected, but from what I now know, that would not really be necessary especially if you wanted to use the digital capability of the station it is mixed mode by default I know of 2 others on the air for ham, I directly contributed to the pll control of one and made my design from notes from the first. I have some atmel code for a controller to do the freq load and control. I never really wrote it up as they are so scarce in the market. Depending on your level of building, it is quite a nice find, and I will be glad to contribute what I can. Many of the LBI's are available on repeater builder and I have pdf's of those that are missing.. search under Ge Net feel free to contact me direct for more info.. Doug KD8B At 10:43 PM 9/10/2008, you wrote: I have in my possesion a true 900Mhz Mastr II repeater. I was so surprized to find it I didnt look around for any manuals. Does ANYONE have information on this rare bird??? It has what looks to be a IDA controller and some kind of secondary board mounted on top of the cabinet. It is all true GE in the gold anodized cabinet, card cage, drawer unit. Anyone?? help? point me to the info, would love to get this war horse working! Dan/NØFPE
Re: [Repeater-Builder] HELP! 2nd try GE Mastr II 900Mhz
Actually Gene W7UVH did a conversion of 800 Mastr II's to 900... The 900 station is equivalent to a late Mastr II Edacs station... just before MIIe... They are synthesized already with a synthesizer similar to the late 800 GMarc V trunking stationsbut controlled by a GETC shelf, probably a turbo GETC.. but yes we are on the AR902mhz list...and I just try not to beat folks up with that all the time :-) Doug KD8B At 12:50 PM 9/13/2008, you wrote: Gene on AR902 did some of those, he should be able to help.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LTR Question
How about a mobile and a busy light feed Doug At 11:14 AM 9/6/2008, you wrote: Sept 6 - 2008 To: All LTR Experts We are looking for some form of LTR decoder device. We would like to program a specific LTR ID and have an output when this ID is received. For example 01-101 would produce a switch closure when decoded. this has to be at the controller level not a mobile unsquelching. For some reason I draw a blank whe thinking about a source. Zetron says they don't have it ( how about that ? ) Best regards from the Windy City Ed Com/Rad Inc
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB314
The db314 is no longer in production and no Andrew/Decibel replacement . I would suspect Sinclair could build a special.. but it will be custom. There is no industry eq for the db314... directly... which by the way is not on ham split it is commercial I suspect Sinclair would make one custom for 140 and 440 splits as opposed to 150 and 450 An alternate option might be to put a side arm with 2 antennas, one up and one down. as that would open the field for many more options the dual on one mast was a sole vendor item I ever saw.. except for specials... from folks like Sinclair... From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of georgiaskywarn Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB314 Just got the news that our ARES group has gotten approval on a grant ($) to move our repeaters to another tower. We are planning on using a DB314 as our remote base antenna. We got a quote from these folks; http://shop.industrialpartner.com/A/andrew/db314-a.htmhttp://shop.industrialpartner.com/A/andrew/db314-a.htm . It was a little more than $1000.00. I think (unfortunately) that is the going price. This quote was back in January. Have to check back with the folks to even see if they have this in stock. When I checked in January...NO ONE else had these. Any suggestions on places to look? I did a Google and found this place. However, couldn't find anyone else. In January, I called Hutton and Tessco and they didn't have one either. Thanks, Robert KD4YDC
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Curious Situation
Just re-reading your post I thought I would add the following thoughts. If 25 watts from a particular antenna is full quieting and 15 watts from the same antenna sequentially measured...is noop... this is not a duplexer problem... those 2 numbers are less than 2 db apart you should not be able to see or hear a difference at the full quieting zone of a receiver ( this would imply greater than 12db sinad SNR for the full quieted signal...) ... let alone drop out entirely...that is not possible you are overlooking something.. like the 15w radio is on simplex a 6-10db drop you might hear at a full quieted signal... but not 2 db... going from 25 watts to 5 for instance is a little better than 6db drop... 25 to 2.5 would be a 10db dropbut if it is a full quieting signal it still would need to drop 10+ db to be a significant drop and close to maybe 15-20db to drop out entirelyI would re-run the test and check connections and gear carefully... as the numbers do not seem to add up... 2db rf power decrease is audible in the bottom 3db of the rx... but not at 20db quieting area Doug KD8B At 11:37 PM 7/29/2008, you wrote: Rbers, I posted a note very early this week about my looking for a someplace to get a 220 duplexer tuned in the TAMPA area. Having not much luck I contacted a local MOTOROLA shop and paid $95 for the service. The receipt returned with the cans indicates that the specifications published by WACOM are very close. Having tuned these merely to incoming signals before, peaking them while the repeater is still in a testing mode, seemed to return decent results but the tune-up was thought to be a better idea. Not so . Todays tune-up hardly was worth the wait or the price based on the results. While a 5 watt HT 10 miles away could work the repeater, now 25 watts from a roof top antenna is now just about full quieting. Fifteen watts does not make the repeater through the same roof top ground plane. Does logic dictate that we go back to seat of the pants tuning and cast fate to the wind? - Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Curious Situation
As an LMR tech who has seen more than a few duplexers screwed up by seemingly competent people I need to weigh in here I would never recommend seat of the pats duplexer tuning on site as a superior solution to a lab alignment but the variables need to be removed..That does not mean the duplexer was tuned correctly as not all shops, Motorola or otherwise are qualified and/or trained to do duplexer tuning... Motorola only owns a couple shops left in the whole USA, the others are private owned shops that are Motorola dealers or Reps... this does not make them specifically qualified by virtue of name only... That being said it COULD be right, and it COULD be wrong... Assuming they did it correctly there are many things which could make the SOP tuning look better in the presence of other problems... if the duplexer was eating more tx power before, then less tx power could have been reaching the antenna where it may or may not be mixing badly with other thingsthere are some tests you need to run.. shut the TX OFF and connect the repeater directly to the antenna and repeat the rx test from the portable...establish a viable rx reference... then connect the rx side of the duplexer in series.. is it the same or worse ... should be same now while incoming signal form portable is incoming, add tx cables and flip tx on or off.. does it go away this is all process of elimination Do not assume anything... test each phase duplexer in as well as out to verify paths did not change or antenna radiation angle did not change due to temporary events... VHF band noise comes and goes here on a day by day basis... too many variables you need to specifically test and account for Get scientific and rule them out... stop dwelling on the duplexer may or may not be tuned... test its function in an apples to apples test... what happened yesterday has little to do with today... from a scientific standpoint Duplexers are gated filters...they pass... they reject... you need to figure out what is not happening measure power and power out... it should be less than 3db no matter whose duplexerIF the duplexer is part of the problem as in things get worse when it was in series of the rx and or tx makes rx worse take it back to the shop and have them verify as something is wrong... if it passes muster you now have an antenna system problem which may or may not involve other local antennas or transmitters we once had a 222.38 rx and a 444.75 tx on same site... never did the math until we finally noticed the 222.38 desense was tied to the 444.75 tx cyclesjust happened that way The notch portions of a duplexer are the most important in protecting your rx from your tx they are not normally something you can fine tune in the field I would think you would mostly make things worse... YMMV Doug KD8B At 11:37 PM 7/29/2008, you wrote: Rbers, I posted a note very early this week about my looking for a someplace to get a 220 duplexer tuned in the TAMPA area. Having not much luck I contacted a local MOTOROLA shop and paid $95 for the service. The receipt returned with the cans indicates that the specifications published by WACOM are very close. Having tuned these merely to incoming signals before, peaking them while the repeater is still in a testing mode, seemed to return decent results but the tune-up was thought to be a better idea. Not so . Todays tune-up hardly was worth the wait or the price based on the results. While a 5 watt HT 10 miles away could work the repeater, now 25 watts from a roof top antenna is now just about full quieting. Fifteen watts does not make the repeater through the same roof top ground plane. Does logic dictate that we go back to seat of the pants tuning and cast fate to the wind? - Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Frequency Change do I retune duplexer?
TX/RX will be very close to that as it is the nature of ganging 2 pass /reject cans on each side of a duplexer... 2 cans on each side actually widens things out as compared to one, but 2 are deeper passes and reject notches than one three cans gets wider/deeper yet... 4 cans winds up in mhz wide as apposed to khz wide... ( as in an rx preselector, the more cans the wider it is) If it was tuned correctly in the first place the 1db window is probably about 150 khz wide on each port or more..., usually equally distributed on each side of the center freq...the notch may be a bit sharper but within 50khz is normally no tune needed if it was correct in the first place... Doug KD8B At 12:14 PM 6/27/2008, you wrote: I have a TX/RX Vari-Notch duplexer. Would the same thing apply to no re-tuning? --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Steve Bosshard (NU5D) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most band pass / band reject will be plenty wide - I measured over 200 Khz on a Wacom 678 that I use with 3 UHF close spaced combined trunking repeaters (some minor loss). I don't believe re-tuning will be needed. Steve NU5D garyp609 wrote: If a repeater was on 447.575 and the frequency was changed to 447.5625 would the duplexers need to be re-tuned? Thanks 73's Gary K2ACY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wanted to buy: Panasonic CF-25 laptop or equivalent for radio programmming
Pre OS boot machine BIOS on most modern P3 class or newer laptops can see a usb drive device such as a floppy, cdrom or in P4 and later cases now flash drives. For the most part anything P3 800 or older will not see a flash drive without a software driver sub system... however in many cases P3 laptops with usb ports can be set to detect disk drives to boot from... even if internal bays are available but unpopulated. PII versions, all bets are off... CF27's came as PII's and PIII's...depending on age... Doug At 01:10 PM 6/18/2008, you wrote: What did you do to get the usb port to be recognized? Seems like you have to have it seen before you could use that. Robert ps Really don't want to have to get rid of it, but 3 repeater projects are draining my resources right now ;-) Great laptop to grab and go on repeaters though. --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've done it several times using this method - works every time. First I use a DOS floppy to FDISK and format the drive in the laptop. This way the partition table is set the way the laptop BIOS will expect it. Then I remove the drive from the laptop and connect it to my $40 universal drive gimmick: http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=1501sku=30504http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=1501sku=30504 A better photo that shows the included double-headed power supply and ]the SATA cable is here: http://www.cablestogo.com/hi-res_image.asp?sku=30504image=30504-A.jpghttp://www.cablestogo.com/hi-res_image.asp?sku=30504image=30504-A.jpg Then I copy the installation CD to the hard drive into a directory that says what it is... W98CD, W98SECD, NT4CD, W2KCD, never use the name Windows, WinNT, or Win32 Then reinstall the drive into the laptop, boot into DOS from a floppy and install from C:\whatever-your-directory-name-is\setup.exe That little USB drive adapter is a lifesaver. Disclaimer: I have no relationship to Cables To Go other than as a satisfied repeat customer for over 10 years (my first purchase was a 386-33 motherboard). Mike WA6ILQ At 06:12 AM 06/17/08, you wrote: A simple solution to your dilemma is to pull the drive and connect it with a $12.00 adapter to a modern 3.5 ide drive bay desktop computer, format the drive as fat32,copy the win98se directory off of the cdrom to the 2.5 laptop drive.. stick the laptop drive back into the laptop.. boot from a dos boot floppy made in xp, and execute the setup program on the hard drive in the windows directory... you do not need the cdrom if you have all the cab files Most decent computer stores offer 2.5 (laptop) drive adapters either to USB or IDE so you can connect them to a standard desktop to work on them or copy to/from... My CF-27 has no cdrom, but XP can be loaded in a similar process more or less, however the folder involved is the I386 folder from the install cd... The CF27 will take a lot bigger drive than 2 gigs. I think mine is a 60 split in 2 partitionsOne DOS fat32, on XP NTFS Doug KD8B At 07:21 PM 6/15/2008, you wrote: Have you found one yet? *I May* have a CF27 up for sale. Bought it ironically at a hamfest 2 weekends ago here in ATL. I LOVE the laptop. The only thing is that I am having a heck of a time getting at least Win98 on the drive. No CD drive. USB drive though. It came with a drive that had Lynx (sp?)on it that was not really functioning. Needed something to use with the program to program the Arcom RC210 with. Everything seems to work on it, but the drive did take a dive. I had another drive (2gig) Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Wanted to buy: Panasonic CF-25 laptop or equivalent for radio programmming
A simple solution to your dilemma is to pull the drive and connect it with a $12.00 adapter to a modern 3.5 ide drive bay desktop computer, format the drive as fat32,copy the win98se directory off of the cdrom to the 2.5 laptop drive.. stick the laptop drive back into the laptop.. boot from a dos boot floppy made in xp, and execute the setup program on the hard drive in the windows directory... you do not need the cdrom if you have all the cab files Most decent computer stores offer 2.5 (laptop) drive adapters either to USB or IDE so you can connect them to a standard desktop to work on them or copy to/from... My CF-27 has no cdrom, but XP can be loaded in a similar process more or less, however the folder involved is the I386 folder from the install cd... The CF27 will take a lot bigger drive than 2 gigs. I think mine is a 60 split in 2 partitionsOne DOS fat32, on XP NTFS Doug KD8B At 07:21 PM 6/15/2008, you wrote: Have you found one yet? *I May* have a CF27 up for sale. Bought it ironically at a hamfest 2 weekends ago here in ATL. I LOVE the laptop. The only thing is that I am having a heck of a time getting at least Win98 on the drive. No CD drive. USB drive though. It came with a drive that had Lynx (sp?)on it that was not really functioning. Needed something to use with the program to program the Arcom RC210 with. Everything seems to work on it, but the drive did take a dive. I had another drive (2gig)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wanted to buy: Panasonic CF-25 laptop or equivalent for radio programmming
CF-27's are probably as easy or easier to find and maybe cheaper on Ebay... We have been using them for DOS radio RSS programming for a long time... and generally the batteries cost more than the laptop...many are 300/350 mhz processors, some 500-550 mhz... I have one (PIII 500) set up for DOS and XP, I use it for all RSS we operate up to and including M/A-Com RPM... I use a boot floppy to get to DOS and have all the DOS RSS in a fat32 partition. It has a real serial port and a touch screen to boot... I think I paid $90.00 for it plus shipping...and it has a win2k COAas well...Probably a good choice for 99.9% of what needs to be programmed in the radio world... The HT600/P200 sw I think is the quirkiest about CPU, the rest seem pretty flexible.. in the PII and PIII sub 600 mhz areaa real 16450/16550 UART is more important Doug KD8B At 06:51 PM 6/12/2008, you wrote: yes, hence the ..or equivalent... part. On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Barry C' mailto:atec77%40hotmail.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't the machine just need a suitable port and speed ? , the toughbook isn't a must ? To: mailto:forsale-swap%40mailman.qth.net[EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailto:motorola%40mailman.qth.net[EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailto:motorola-Radios%40yahoogroups.com[EMAIL PROTECTED]; mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: mailto:sacramento.cyclist%40gmail.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:20:24 -0700 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wanted to buy: Panasonic CF-25 laptop or equivalent for radio programmming Good evening everyone, Subject says it all. Thought I had one lined up but the seller flaked. Need a CF-25 Toughbook or equivalent to program my MT-1000 and Spectras. Let me know what you've got plus shipping to 95608. Thanks! Dennis -- Dennis L. Wade KG6ZI Carmichael, CA
