On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:29 AM, lukhman_khanlukhman_k...@yahoo.com wrote:
The second EN we have proposed is : Collect land rent from all GoI plots such
as Management Vastrapur plot, Nehru University plot, Airport plots and give
33% to the Military and deposit 67% to the citizen's bank or post
you should become a member of the party started by an
online friend of mine in Gujarat. He lost the election
recently but his party and ideas survive.
He has radical views - but I tend to agree with
many of tem and am almost tempted to join the party
True, there must be some way to give the govt
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 08:10:52AM +0530, ss wrote:
I don't care much for European views on islam. They are confused. Europe is
Europe is diverse, not confused. A small (and, apparently dwindling) minority
is in general for evidence-based methods and against belief-based,
and for a strictly
You're missing the point completely. It is not that
it is wonderful or not. The point is that the laws
are against human rights, and if Muslim majority
countries have realised this and replacing it with
more modern laws,
Please be more specific. Which particular laws?
(now dont tell me -
survive. He has radical views - but I tend to agree
with many of them and am almost tempted to join the party
http://www.rahulmehta.com/about_mrcm_party.htm
The second EN we have proposed is : Collect land rent from all GoI plots such
as Management Vastrapur plot, Nehru University plot,
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:26:13PM -0700, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
It actually looks like its copied from various vendor's RFPs that'd get
submitted to BOTH parties just before election time.
Folks, please try to limit the top-posting.
Follow the money would be an interesting game to
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 AM, lukhman_khanlukhman_k...@yahoo.com wrote:
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific about what you
Atanu Dey has the best analysis I've seen
It is an engaging piece of over-analysis. Nice as a thought experiment
but political manifestos are
Venkatesh Hariharan [25/06/09 14:33 +0530]:
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:14 AM, lukhman_khanlukhman_k...@yahoo.com wrote:
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific about what you
Atanu Dey has the best analysis I've seen
It is an engaging piece of over-analysis. Nice as a
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Venkatesh Hariharan ven...@gmail.com wrote:
Atanu Dey has the best analysis I've seen
It is an engaging piece of over-analysis. Nice as a thought experiment
but political manifestos are statements of intent and not meant to be
analyzed to such depth.
2009/6/25 lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
That there is a civil code that is favouring one community over another
IMHO seems to be an exaggerated lie told by the BJP.
I sincerely request you to walk me through the specific grievance on that
score. Very interesting to me.
You're putting
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Kiran K Karthikeyan
kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said it favoured one community
over another. I just said that it should be uniform, i.e. a Hindu, Muslim,
or Christian are equal before the law. Perhaps I'm
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 16:28, Kiran K Karthikeyan
kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/6/25 lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
That there is a civil code that is favouring one community over another
IMHO seems to be an exaggerated lie told by the BJP.
I sincerely request you to walk me
2009/6/25 Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com
I don't see how the need for a UCC affects a Hindu male. It would be a god
sent for Muslim women, but a Hindu male pining for the UCC seems like the
only desire is for a dilution of religious identities.
I didn't know it always had to be about
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 16:36, Nikhil Mehra nikhil.mehra...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't see how the need for a UCC affects a Hindu male. It would be a god
sent for Muslim women, but a Hindu male pining for the UCC seems like the
only desire is for a dilution of religious identities. Which is a
I'm writing this in a hurry, so please pardon the lack of clarity, etc.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 16:57, Kiran K Karthikeyan
kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
The most disturbing fact is that most Muslim countries have moved beyond
age-old Shariah laws, including Pakistan but in India we
--- On Thu, 25/6/09, Pranesh Prakash the.solips...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Pranesh Prakash the.solips...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [silk] BJP pulling wool over our eyes?
To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
Date: Thursday, 25 June, 2009, 5:17 PM
I'm writing this in a hurry, so
please pardon
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said it
favoured one community over another. I just said that it should be
uniform, i.e. a Hindu, Muslim,
Why should it uniform? Let the muslim have his/her personal law.
Why should anyone get worked up about it.
The whole issue is created just to
Again, you're going back and forth. So now you admit
they had a bad campaign which is the reason I
cited in my initial post.
Bad campaign not just this time but all along. The line of thinking they adopt
is all wrong.
Right. Like I tried to point out in another post,
the BJP having an
fact is that most Muslim countries
have moved beyond age-old Shariah laws, including Pakistan
Pakistan does not have shariah laws?
Is that the latest news?
Lukhman.
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:52 PM, lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
wrote:
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said it
favoured one community over another. I just said that it should be
uniform, i.e. a Hindu, Muslim,
Why should it uniform? Let the muslim have his/her personal
On Thursday 25 Jun 2009 9:11:48 pm lukhman_khan wrote:
After you see these 15 part videos, please comment again.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=36C2EE2
Lukhman - the url isn't working
shiv
2009/6/25 lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
You're putting words into my mouth. I never said it
favoured one community over another. I just said that it should be
uniform, i.e. a Hindu, Muslim,
Why should it uniform? Let the muslim have his/her personal law.
Why should anyone get
On Thursday 25 Jun 2009 4:57:46 pm Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote:
most of Europe is moving towards banning the purdah and
hijab.
IMO most of Europe is being stupid. It is as much of a curbing of personal
freedom to ban the hijab as it is to impose it.
I think that if Europe or any other entity
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=36C2EE2
Lukhman - the url isn't working
go to youtube and search for
banned documentary on gujarat riots
it will show up as 15 parts of 10 minutes each. Needs a lot of patience to get
to the interesting parts towards the end.
Lukhman
On Friday 26 Jun 2009 9:35:37 am lukhman_khan wrote:
If at all the BJP wants to sort out the plight of muslim women, they can go
ahead and fix a minimum meher to be paid to the bride at the time of
marriage. That will surely get them my vote (once at least).
:D
Lukhman - you should become a
2009/6/22 lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
I don't think the BJP lost because of the hindutva-RSS
cancer, but rather due to bad campaign and worse candidates.
Swapan Dasgupta, who is a known BJP supporter wrote that many Indians
looked at what's happening in Pakistan with the Taliban and
As for the bjp it vision - it was severely cross-eyed if not stone blind,
but I think that got discussed threadbare on india-gii.
Their online marketing campaign wasnt much better than spamming every
single email address and cellphone they got their hands on.
Venkatesh Hariharan [24/06/09 14:41
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 9:58 PM, Kiran K Karthikeyan
kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
It is surprising that many think that the Congress victory is a mandate
against hardline Hinduism (and therefore the BJP). Congress ran a more
grassroots campaign, better candidates, and overall was the
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Suresh
Ramasubramaniansur...@hserus.net wrote:
As for the bjp it vision - it was severely cross-eyed if not stone blind,
but I think that got discussed threadbare on india-gii.
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific about what you
did not like?
The expression core Hindu is sleight of hand,
or perhaps sleight of words that is used retrospectively
to describe the BJP voter. If you vote for BJP you are
core Hindu. That definition is a sort of taunt at
Hindus who do not vote for BJP:
Point taken. I cannot generalise in this crude
Venkatesh Hariharan [24/06/09 19:15 +0530]:
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific about what you
Atanu Dey has the best analysis I've seen
http://www.deeshaa.org/2009/03/16/bjps-it-for-all/
And see this india-gii thread with posts by Atanu, me and various others
On Wednesday 24 Jun 2009 9:37:25 am Nikhil Mehra wrote:
On all counts I think they are so disconnected with the issues that
affected them in this election and the issues that make them appear truly
communal now rather than a party that is unfairly being branded communal by
a bunch of parties
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:02 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
I am not sure if the BJP know the meaning of Hindutva, or that anyone
really
knows what Hindutva means. And I don't think the BJP (or some of its
staunch supporters whom I sometimes interact with onine know what it is
supposed
2009/6/24 ss cybers...@gmail.com
The word Hindu as I have stated time and again is a fractal recursive
acceptance of a definition that was made as an observation of people in
India.
I just read a review[1] of Rethinking Hindu Identity by DN Jha[2]. If
anybody on the list has read it, would
2009/6/24 Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com
[1] http://openthemagazine.com/ (You have to navigate to the review, no
permalinks)
The review is on page 56.
Kiran
The emphasis on open standards, open source and Indian language
computing in their IT Vision was welcome.
FYI, I am not a supporter of the BJP, but I have met
some of those who drafted the policy and think
they have their heart in the right place.
BJP is a self proclaimed nationalist party.
Protection of human rights of all its citizens is one of the
elements of Indian democracy. So, makes me ponder, how
one single party which is openly intolerant to a part of its
own citizens group is now a major party in the largest
democratic country in the world. !!
Its a heady cocktail
On Wednesday 24 Jun 2009 9:49:03 pm Nikhil Mehra wrote:
I completely disagree that the RSS tried to distance itself from the BJP.
This is post-election
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/8188/rss-bjp-give-up-hindutva.html
RSS to BJP: Give up Hindutva
Nagpur, PTI:
Monday, June 15, 2009
wrote that many Indians
looked at what's happening in Pakistan
with the Taliban and got put
off by hard core Hindutva
True, the taalib and the RSS-VHP-BJP do have a lot in common.
please don't ask me to define it :-) Also,
the shrill campaign against Manmohan Singh
recoiled against them.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 17:18, Dr. John Marshall Johnson
johnso...@gmail.com wrote:
Indian citizens, especially the majority group are getting
smarter, they preferred congress because they have started
to realise that this party's (unlike others) democracy rests
upon the principles of
The more educated and liberal voters (usually in urban centres)
Why do ppl have such a dim view of the rural folks?
If you can rally such undim people behind caste, how much more difficult is
it to rally them behind religion?
Actually there are people in rural areas who are equally
I think the BJP is most definitely in denial about the
causes for their election loss.
What good (or bad) is this attitude going to do them in the future? The answer
to that question interests me more.
Now they're making noises re-iterating the Hindutva core without
conceding
This is
I completely disagree that the RSS tried to distance itself from the BJP.
RSS to BJP: Give up Hindutva Nagpur, PTI: Monday, June 15, 2009
Criticising the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) for its
âinconsistencyâ in
toeing the Hindutva policy, senior RSS ideologue
M G alias Baburao Vaidya
on
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific
about what you did not like? One of the proposals I liked was that
of changing Right
http://www.deeshaa.org/2009/03/16/bjps-it-for-all/
please open that link.
Please read the comments at the bottom.
Very interesting comments from
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:19 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
This is post-election
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/8188/rss-bjp-give-up-hindutva.html
That's the point, shiv. It's post election. The proverbial two men and a dog
that hang around BJP headquarters now could tell them
On Thursday 25 Jun 2009 12:25:29 am lukhman_khan wrote:
Can one imagine a BJP without RSS?
No but one can imagine an RSS without BJP. Imagine - that is.
But that is the BJP's problem. The RSS will survive with or without the BJP -
because many core Hindus go for the RSS not the BJP. The RSS
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific about what you
Atanu Dey has the best analysis I've seen
http://www.deeshaa.org/2009/03/16/bjps-it-for-all/
http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/images/stories/it-vision.pdf
The more I read this, the more I realise its impossibility.
A bunch of
That's the point, shiv. It's post election.
The proverbial two men and a dog
that hang around BJP headquarters now could tell
them that. Prior to
election there was full support for the BJP
campaign by the RSS.
The BJP and the RSS are the same side of the same coin.
I find it amazing that
Can one imagine a BJP without RSS?
No but one can imagine an RSS without BJP. Imagine - that is.
But that is the BJP's problem. The RSS will survive
with or without the BJP -
because many core Hindus go for the RSS not the BJP.
The RSS is the skeleton and yes the skeleton will survive
It actually looks like its copied from various vendor's RFPs that'd get
submitted to BOTH parties just before election time.
Follow the money would be an interesting game to play after that.
lukhman_khan [25/06/09 02:44 -]:
I think this is way too harsh. Can you be more specific about
On Thursday 25 Jun 2009 8:26:34 am lukhman_khan wrote:
For the BJP to ditch its ideology, it has to ditch itself.
You give too much credit to the individual politicans who make up the BJP.
When a man holds on to his ideology in spite of personal reverses, he
is dedicated. When a man ditches
On Jun 22, 2009, at 8:51 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote:
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:34, J. Andrew Rogers
and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote:
Much of what constitutes Anglo-American capitalism is a natural
consequence
of the English Common Law system under which such economies
operate. As
On Jun 22, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Pranesh Prakash wrote:
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:34, J. Andrew Rogers
and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote:
Anglo-American capitalism would be a perfectly fine and viable
model, were
there a country left on earth that actually practiced it.
Haha. I agree. But
On Tuesday 23 Jun 2009 8:45:58 am lukhman_khan wrote:
Will it boomerang by BJP losing even its hard core hindu votes too, now
that they are wooing muslims who still wont vote for them, come what may.
Who exactly is this core Hindu who is supposed to vote for the BJP?
The expression core Hindu
ss [24/06/09 07:21 +0530]:
Who exactly is this core Hindu who is supposed to vote for the BJP?
I think he meant hardcore hindu, like hardcore porn
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:15 PM, J. Andrew Rogers
and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote:
These all dovetail in my interpretation. All equitable means is that you
are expected to take personal responsibility for the terms of contracts you
sign because the terms will be enforced as written by the
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:21 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
Who exactly is this core Hindu who is supposed to vote for the BJP?
The expression core Hindu is sleight of hand, or perhaps sleight of words
that is used retrospectively to describe the BJP voter. If you vote for BJP
you are
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:32 AM, . svaks...@gmail.com wrote:
This assumes awareness of legal issues and personal rights. How many
individuals really understand the legalese nitty-gritty and its
consequences or interpretation before they sign on the dotted line !?
You're not expected to
2009/6/22 lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
I don't think the BJP lost because of the hindutva-RSS
cancer, but rather due to bad campaign and worse candidates.
Your thoughts contradict those within the (lack of) BJP leadership itself.
The more educated and liberal voters (usually in
I don't think the BJP lost because of the hindutva-RSS
cancer, but rather due to bad campaign and worse candidates.
Your thoughts contradict those within the (lack of) BJP leadership itself.
The more educated and liberal voters (usually in urban centres)
Why do ppl have such a dim view of
lukhman_khan wrote:
Anyway to me nothing is more important than freedom of thought.
What use is the freedom of thought when I haven't any food in my body.
Conversely, one could ask of what use a healthy body is without a free
mind. I believe one would notice the one or the other based on what
--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [silk] BJP pulling wool over our eyes?
To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 10:28 AM
2009/6/22 lukhman_khan lukhman_k
From: Indrajit Gupta bonoba...@yahoo.co.in
Pathetic.
Good right wing politics is oxymoronic.
Well I suppose even good politics can be considered an oxymoron if one is
inclined to such a narrow line of thought.
Kiran
On 22-Jun-09, at 10:28 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote:
India is deprived of a good Right-wing party.
What would you see as the ideals and platform of a good Right-wing
party?
-Taj.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Sirtaj Singh Kang sir...@sirtaj.netwrote:
On 22-Jun-09, at 10:28 AM, Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote:de
India is deprived of a good Right-wing party.
What would you see as the ideals and platform of a good Right-wing party?
-Taj.
Is there a term for a
2009/6/22 Sirtaj Singh Kang sir...@sirtaj.net
What would you see as the ideals and platform of a good Right-wing party?
Anti-communist.
Perhaps anti-left would have been more apt in my post, but then I would be
asked if I was against liberal thought and all the other good things the
left
2009/6/22 Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com
Is there a term for a combination of right wing free-market capitalism
and
left wing cultural liberalism? I'm at a loss to understand (with my
limited knowledge of political philosophy, admittedly) what is so
incompatible between the two that it has
Let's be clear here
1. The sort of right that has a religious / communal ideology (bjp / sangh
parivar here, the christian right elsewhere..)
2. The economic policy right wingers (the classic definition)
3. The anti communist right wingers
etc etc. The 3 types can be entirely distinct, you
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Kiran K
Karthikeyankiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/6/22 Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com
Is there a term for a combination of right wing free-market capitalism
and
left wing cultural liberalism? I'm at a loss to understand (with my
limited knowledge of
2009/6/22 Thaths tha...@gmail.com
Precisely my dilemma. I am not aware of one.
Libertarianism?
Would have been apt if there were embraced by major political parties of the
world rather than fringe parties who have no real say in the running of the
country. Perhaps it needs to evolve into
--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [silk] BJP pulling wool over our eyes?
To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 8:18 PM
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:26 AM,
Kiran K
Karthikeyankiran.karthike...@gmail.com
wrote
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com wrote:
Is there a term for a combination of right wing free-market capitalism
and
left wing cultural liberalism?
Libertarianism, of the classical liberal kind, is exactly that. There are no
libertarian politicians in india
--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [silk] BJP pulling wool over our eyes?
To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 7:32 PM
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:19 PM,
Sirtaj Singh Kang sir
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Indrajit Gupta bonoba...@yahoo.co.inwrote:
Frankly, no, these are perfectly viable in combination, unless one is a
Marxist and believes that culture is part of the superstructure of a
particular state of development of society, hence is determined - and shaped
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com wrote:
I find the culturally liberal Scandinavian systems to be too
socialistic with their high taxes and elaborate social security nets
Well, if you measure outcomes, the Scandinavians have been doing very well
in recent years
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Indrajit Guptabonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:
--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
Libertarianism?
No.
This is hugely different.
How so?
Thaths
--
You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel. -- Homer J. Simpson
--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Venkat Inumella ven...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [silk] BJP pulling wool over our eyes?
To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 11:34 PM
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:38 PM,
Indrajit Gupta bonoba
--- On Mon, 22/6/09, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [silk] BJP pulling wool over our eyes?
To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 11:39 PM
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:09 AM,
Indrajit Guptabonoba...@yahoo.co.in
wrote
On Jun 22, 2009, at 12:10 PM, Indrajit Gupta wrote:
I would have that by today, nobody remains to subscribe to
completely untrammeled Anglo-American capitalism.
Trammeling of Anglo-American capitalism is what led to the current
mess. The regulatory capture, corruption, and venal politics
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Indrajit Gupta bonoba...@yahoo.co.inwrote:
I would have that by today, nobody remains to subscribe to completely
untrammeled Anglo-American capitalism. It exists in that disastrous form
only in a handful of countries. In those, it has been an unmitigated
wrote:
Libertarianism?
No.
This is hugely different.
How so?
tomorrow, plij? jhonked. phiting on another list,
just cleaned up opponent, body sent to lion cages.
The question still remains
Will it boomerang by BJP losing even its hard core hindu votes too, now that
they are
lukhman_khan wrote:
Anyway to me nothing is more important than
freedom of thought.
What use is the freedom of thought when I haven't any
food in my body.Conversely, one could ask of what
use a healthy body is without a free mind.
I believe one would notice the one or the other based
on
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:34, J. Andrew Rogers
and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote:
Much of what constitutes Anglo-American capitalism is a natural consequence
of the English Common Law system under which such economies operate. As
principles, the sanctity of contract, the assumption of
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:34, J. Andrew Rogers
and...@ceruleansystems.com wrote:
Anglo-American capitalism would be a perfectly fine and viable model, were
there a country left on earth that actually practiced it.
Haha. I agree. But the same could be said about anarchism and about
communism
What does one make of the BJP attempting to put Band-aid on its hindutva-RSS
cancer? (my POV)
Are the educated class so foolish to be taken on yet another ride?
Or will it boomerang by BJP losing even its hard core hindu votes too, now that
they are wooing muslims who still wont vote for them,
2009/6/22 lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.com
What does one make of the BJP attempting to put Band-aid on its
hindutva-RSS cancer? (my POV)
Are the educated class so foolish to be taken on yet another ride?
Or will it boomerang by BJP losing even its hard core hindu votes too, now
that
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