What is supposed to happen and what may happen can be two completely
different things. And as Russ points out in his #25 Seminar, when you do a
lot of work, it's not a matter of IF something will happen, but WHEN
something does happen.
We upgraded the supply for an ex industrial building for a
I came across this report this morning just shows how ignorant the general
public is regarding sprinklers and how they work.
http://www.kcentv.com/news/c-article.php?cid=1nid=12344
Richard L. Mote
Layout Technician
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc
___
Question to the forum:
What effect does a 5/8 inch or 3/4 inch water meter have on fire sprinkler
system installed in an NFPA 13D or NFPA 13R system. The issue is one of the
maximum continuous flow thru the meter and its effect on the ability of the
fire sprinkler system to operate as intended.
What, a thinking test on a FRIDAY? What's wrong with you dude?That's just
so wrong. ;)
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
I actually watched that on the morning news, and the report stated the
aeresol was sprayed into smoke detectors. Probably the transcriber of the
text inserted sprinkler instead of smoke detector.
Don Lowry
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
A 3/4 water supply will probably not be capable of supplying two
sprinklers. You need to have a friction loss graph for the meter. Do the
hydraulic calcs to show what it will provide then show the required pipe
size to allow the system to work.
Art - ATCO Fire Protection Design
-Original
Hi Greg,
I know in our town we enforce installation of a full fire alarm, (horns,
strobes etc...)based on the fact that we have adopted the Illinois
Accessibility code.NFPA 72 just tells you how it shall be installed. I
would check with your state ADA requirements. I hope this helps.
Hello Don,
I just watched it on line and she said Aimed at sprinklers
Friday, March 9, 2007, 10:27:45 AM, you wrote:
I actually watched that on the morning news, and the report stated the
aeresol was sprayed into smoke detectors. Probably the transcriber of the
text inserted sprinkler
Viking has a listed head for Residential - 9 GPM each. Spacings are obviously
not 20'x20'.
However, you can have the system at the manufacturer's guidelines on the meter.
Pete Schwab
Wayne Automatic Fire
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
This link take you to a transcribed page, in the video link on that page the
women specifically says sprinklers. Maybe they got it right later.
- Original Message -
From: Don Lowry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:27 AM
Subject: RE:
I think Roland Huggins is correct.Just test the system and if there is a
problem fix it.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:22 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: What I'm
The charts that I have show a 5/8 meter rated for 20 gpm and a 3/4 meter
rated for 30 gpm. These charts are for NEPTUNE water meters which our local
purveyor uses. This being the case, two RES sprinklers will create more
flow than the 5/8 meter is rated for, and in most cases two sprinklers will
The video online is apparently from yesterdays news at 6:00 PM. (That was
the evening news anchor lady.) This morning they said and showed smoke
detectors. They were called on it last night and got it correct this
morning.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
Chris,
They would have the same effect that any valve or fitting would have on
the ability of a sprinkler system to function properly. The loss in
pressure due to friction at various flows through the meters is required
to be accounted for in the hydraulic calculations. Interestingly
Folks
A water hammer can do nasty things to a sprinklers system but just pump
pressure can cause problems if the sprinkler fitters have not done their
work properly. Years ago at Phillips Plaza in Atlanta a grooved
coupling was not properly tightened because the groove on the pipe was
too
Since this is a test:
1) The meter will have no effect on the operation of the 13D system if you
install it per NFPA 13D, 2007 Figure A.6.2(a) or (b)
or
2) There are no 5/8 meters that will not screw you over bad for pressure
and flow.The only possible hope is you have no rooms with more
I know the Dallas water dept will not allow small standard water
meters (displacement types I think) to be used on a residential
sprinkler system. They say these unit will not operate RELIABLY at
the higher flow presented by the sprinkler system. I believe they
require a minimum 1 -1/2
There was a fire at one of the properties that Wayne Automatic FIre
Sprinklers installed and currently services.
Camden Sedgebrook located in the Huntersville area of NC had a fire
break out around 2:30 am this morning and the sprinkler system was able
to put the fire out.
AND NOBODY
If you look at the Hersey Meter 400 Series IIS and 500 Series IIS the
flow characteristics are shown and it becomes very clear that a 1 meter
would be the minimum size for MOST Dwelling fire sprinkler systems (NOT
ALL).
Real life example:
2 low flow sprinklers requiring a minimum of 13 GPM
Okay, since Roland mentions Dallas water dept/utilities (DWU), I thought I'd
contribute to this discussion. Contrary to what Roland has inferred, DWU
actually is very understanding and has tried to address the reliability of the
domestic meters during high flow (fire) conditions.
Prior to
I totally agree with the statements made by Rick. The Heresy charts I have,
confirm those numbers as Typical Operating Ranges. The issue I am trying to
confirm is how does the Maximum Continuous Operation affect a dwelling or
residential fire sprinkler system. Given the valves of the Hersey
All sprinkler systems should be able to with stand a 200 PSI hydro test at
any time the owner's or AHJ's might request it during the life span of that
sprinkler system. I don't think anyone would argue this point.
The point I was trying to make in my earlier response was that the
contractor
This is the water meter we use here a lot.
http://www.badgermeter.com/pdf/recdisk/tech/rd-t-34.pdf
http://www.vikinggroupinc.com/databook/sprinklers/residential/103105.pdf
is an example of a concealed head that could work with up to 16x16 spacing
(flat ceilings only though - if on sloped clgs,
No problem Chris just wanting to add my 'thinking' for Friday... I am now
done, going home soon, short day every Friday!!! Yippee!!! Good Luck!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Brown
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:50 AM
To:
This is a follow up for yesterday's postings. Thanks to each of you that
provided input. I did speak with the AHJ this morning and he agreed with
the arguments that were presented to me by you. So as Roland mentioned, I
would think the intermediate connection at the first landing is for the
Chris,
Badger makes a meter, model M40, which is 3/4 x 3/4, and their chart
shows that it can accept flows of up to 35 gpm. And, at that flow, it
has a pressure loss of around 6.5 to 7.0 psi. I would think that would
certainly be sufficient to not impact the design of a residential system
I agree again Ken. My experience with the water districts I have to
contend with is that they will install the meter they like and not the
one being used in other jurisdictions. It is all driven by the cost of a
meter at the time they purchase them and the cheapest manufactured meter
they can
Cutsheets on all listed devices should be submitted BUT the wording
in 13 is a tad obscure - Specially Listed Equipment must be
submitted. Now that's clear as mud.
Back in my days reviewing items, EVERYTHING was submitted. What is
the norm today?
I beat this would be a good item to be
When sizing the size of fasteners for the attachment of sway bracing to
post-tension slabs, do I need to be concerned with tension load or shear
load? The reason I ask is that we will be using HILTI HDI-P 3/8 concrete
inserts. It has an allowable load under tension of 380 lbs and an allowable
If your using a fitting attachment similar to the TOLCO Fig. 909 or 910
and your brace angle is less than 60 deg. from horizontal the load is all
shear. From 60 deg. on down to 90 (vertical) the load becomes increasingly
Tension. You'll find it very beneficial to keep your hangers between 30
Does anyone know how much pressure would it take to push 35 gpm through a
3/4 meter?
Thanks -
Garth
- Original Message -
From: PCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pandora's Box
Chris,
Badger makes a meter, model
Unsubscribe / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / chief303
Scott W. Adams
Assistant Fire Chief
District Fire Marshal
Park City Fire Service District
Direct - (435) 940-2503
Fire Prev - (435) 940-2532
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:sprinklerforum-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Could be a lot. You'd have to get the information from the
manufacturer. They can be stingy about giving it out, but they do
have it. I recently went through this drill on a 1-1/2 meter.
BTW, if there is someone living in South Florida out there, would you
please e-mail me privately. Thanks.
For a 3/4 Badger meter the maximum flow is only 25 Gpm At 5 Psi loss. You
are off the chart with 35 Gpm, so it will probly break the meter, and then
its anyone's guess how much pressure you'll lose.
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel:
Thom,
Are you sure on that? I have a Badger catalog sheet, showing the M40,
3/4 model, has a max flow of 35 gpm.
Just asking, maybe my data is out of date.
PARSLEY CONSULTING
Ken Wagoner, SET
760.745.6181 voice
760.745.0537 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] e-mail
Everything. Now that doesn't mean that the applicant drops the RAS, TYCO,
etc catalog on table, just the cuts needed to validate the design for code
compliance. I've stopped counting the number of times a sprinkler specified
in the legend was standard response where the design clearly included a
Unless it's multipurpose, do we really have to meter the water?
I mean for 20-30 gallons a year?
Fortunately, up here in Beantown we're not metering YET but we can't even do
a single family without a separate service.
No questionable meter loss figures here yet. Just questionable bfp losses.
TGIF
I believe you are speaking about change in NFPA-25 which requires
testing of all dry sprinklers after 10 years. Sample size is same as
any other heads.
Top Myers
Myers Risk Services
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
38 matches
Mail list logo
