Stites
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D
Gary,
I have to disagree with your position. Reading from the '16 edition of NFPA
13D, §7.4.1 states that, "Listed pipe shall be supported in accordance with any
listing limitations." What I've read from most of the manufacturer's of
/location issue.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Parsley Consulting via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 9:00 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Parsley Consulting ; Gary Stites
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: NFPA
Gary,
I have to disagree with your position. Reading from the '16 edition of
NFPA 13D, §7.4.1 states that, /"Listed pipe shall be supported in
accordance with any listing limitations./" What I've read from most of
the manufacturer's of CPVC is that the support criteria they've
developed are
13D is silent on this as it says to install piping per the plumbing code.
The plumbing code would determine if you can hang from the piping or not.
On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 2:29 AM Bruce Verhei via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
> Do hang the HVAC from the CPVC. No
Do hang the HVAC from the CPVC. Not just taking it off. Ever wonder how codes
get thicker and thicker. One way is more pre-approved design options. The
other. Needing to write this kind of into code.
Simple question. Will HVAC firm post photo on their homepage as example work
their proud
>From the Lubrizol website:
Fiberglass Duct insulation with aluminum, paper, metalized polyester,
polypropylene and polyethylene facing may come into contact with CPVC.
On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 9:09 PM Tom Noble via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
> What about th
Tom,
I did not see this post until today, so I apologize for the delayed
response. I'll share my thoughts on what you've observed.
No, there is nothing in NFPA 13D regarding hangers for sprinkler system
piping not being allowed to be used for non-system components, as there
is in -13. As I
Farrington Road
Milton, FL 32583
O- 850-637-8535
C- 850-712-9555
From: Tom Noble via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 4:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Tom Noble
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D
Tom,
Correct, I cannot find anything in the standard that addresses you issue.
Tom
: (802) 434-2968
tston...@comcast.net <mailto:tston...@comcast.net>
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Greg McGahan via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 5:07 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Greg McGahan
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D
What abo
Tom,
Refer to NFPA 13, 9.1.1 Shared support between trades. Might help you.
I believe the larger issue is the HVAC insulation resting against the CPVC
pipe. Is there a compatibility issue?
Regards,
G. Tim Stone
G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Tom,
Correct, I cannot find anything in the standard that addresses you issue.
Tom Noble CET, CFPS, CWBSP
Technical Programs Specialist
American Fire Sprinkler Association
p: 214-349-5965 ext125
w: firesprinkler.org
—
Learn fire sprink
Are all the respondents politicians? Politicians sidestep the original
question, fail to answer, distract into another direction.
Regarding NFPA 13D, it's silent on sprinkler piping or hangers shall not be
used to support non-system components. I'm looking for a confirmation that
is a true stateme
Look here they drilled the joists.
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 4:55 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Travis Mack ; cl...@fire-design.com
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D
I’d be more concerned that the straps are not
I’d be more concerned that the straps are not compatible with the cpvc.
I agree it was lazy on the part of the hvac installer.
Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
480-505-9271 x700
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign,com
Send large files to MFP Design via:
https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
Sent
What about the potential compatibility issues with the duct touching the CPVC
pipe? Could you hang your hat on there? Could one defer to the installation
instructions as they take precedence?
> On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Tom Wellen via Sprinklerforum
> wrote:
>
> HVAC duct was found being s
Tom,
How much weight do you think a piece of flex duct for residential is going to
apply to the pipe? It looks like the bracket for the diffuser is only about a
foot away and has 4 screws holding it. I don’t think that is the same as a
piece of sheet metal duct being supported by sprinkler
That is sheer laziness by HVAC sub. The extra weight is not calculated in the
support formula in NFPA chapter 9 (2016 and earlier).
Thanks,
Eric Hendrix
Design Manager
[cid:image001.jpg@01D6044E.276503A0]
124 Enterprise Drive | Madison, MS 39110
O: 601.898.9385 | C: 601-826-9071
[Image result
I should note that the basement compartment is larger than 600 sq ft and
the span of the TJI’s are over 20ft.
Dewayne Martinez
Fire Protection Design Manager
*TOTAL* *Mechanical*
*Building* *Integrity*
W234 N2830 Paul Rd.
Pewaukee, WI 53072
dmarti...@total-mechanical.com
Ph: 262-522-7
Hi
we flow switch and relay to isolate the sprinkler if there is a demand
-Original Message-
From: Travis Mack
To: sprinklerforum
Sent: Fri, Aug 18, 2017 11:16 am
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D - Adding 5 gpm Domestic Flow in Calculations
Yes. We do have some authorities that mandate it
Yes. We do have some authorities that mandate it. But it is still above the
minimum requirements of 13D.
I always thought it was odd. But there are many things some authorities require
that I feel are odd. Ha ha.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
"Follow" us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.
I believe the mandate for a 5 gpm addition for domestic demand was added
for single family homes by some jurisdictions as a rule of thumb quite
some time back. And, to put a fine point on it, Owen, it's state law in
California, so yes you certainly _*are*_ required to add 5 gpm flow for
domest
Correct. That seems to be a fallacy that people locked on to long ago and never
let go of. NFPA 13D is for one and two family dwellings. For a single family
home it is not required. If you are doing a duplex (a two family dwelling) then
you add the demand.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
"F
Dude,
I believe every tank system has refill whether off another pump and tank, or
traditional domestic. We do pumps and tanks all over Boston (13D up to 3
family but 20 minute supply per Maurice P.) mainly because the purveyors are
so expensive with permits, bonds, tap fees and pipe rentals that
That does sound good Tom, thanks for the info.
-Original Message-
From: Tom Duross [mailto:tduro...@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 4:38 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13? Full Circle?
I actually did a 13D system with one of those
I actually did a 13D system with one of those tanks Potter used to make.
Spun fiberglass, wasn't heavy, beautiful design. Nitrogen from a 2K# tank
into the top and water out the bottom.
Even the panel that came with it had built in 9V battery backup.
Something happened with whomever was making the
makes sense Todd ! , thanks.
-Original Message-
From: Todd Williams [mailto:t...@fpdc.com]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:14 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13? Full Circle?
Brad,
It is great in theory but not in practice. Pressure vessels tend
And the ignorant among us, myself included, learned something. Since IRC
2012 was just recently was adopted in Washington this is critical for me to
know. Thanks.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:30 AM, Richard Mote wrote:
> My thanks to everyone for their input. Bottom line the AHJ was right. Per
> 201
roved automatic water supply?
> It seems like the project of this thread would be ideal.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Duross [mailto:tduro...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 7:36 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: RE: NFPA 13D
PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13? Full Circle?
For the few 13D systems I've done with pumps and tanks, I've always been
leery of the Basement systems. Whether CPVC and QR pendents (for 'future'
sheetrock) or standard exposed steel with S
My thanks to everyone for their input. Bottom line the AHJ was right. Per 2012
IRC if you use non dimensional joists in basements you put in sprinklers, fire
proofing, or gyp board. I think when they see the price for 2, 300 gallon
tanks, pump, piping and sprinklers they will opt for gyp board.
As I understand it the UL test protocol for 13D has three heads in a
compartment. The walls are surrounded with Ikea furniture, so solidified
gasoline and kindling, along with drapes and all the trimmings of a living
room. The fire is started and heads have to pop within a certain time
frame. Two
For the few 13D systems I've done with pumps and tanks, I've always been
leery of the Basement systems. Whether CPVC and QR pendents (for 'future'
sheetrock) or standard exposed steel with SR or QR uprights (or pendents),
I've wondered how they get away with 2 head calcs. The basements are open
NG INT'L. Ltd.
> Santa Fe, New Mexico USA
> (800) 503.1961 nationwide
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Young
> To: sprinklerforum
> Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2013 3:09 pm
> Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
>
>
> Its in the PA UCC, which he's operating under. It w
Ask the AHJ, but ask him also where the requirement comes from. He may be
thinking of his building code requirement for sprinklering basements.
Unless the world has changed, single family residences were exempted from
the requirement.
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Todd Letterman wrote:
> Wow
Founder
ACCENT FIRE ENGINEERING INT'L. Ltd.
Santa Fe, New Mexico USA
(800) 503.1961 nationwide
-Original Message-
From: Ben Young
To: sprinklerforum
Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2013 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
Its in the PA UCC, which he's operating under. It was added to the
05, 2013 3:05 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
This was forwarded to me by a colleague off forum. Looks like paragraph 1 is
where it is required. And paragraph IV is where it exempts dimensional lumber
greater than 2 x 10. Looks like it came in with the
Concessions on light weight construction went along with required sprinkler
protection. Now remove the required sprinkler protection but retain the light
weight construction. It's not just having to go down through the upward moving
heat/fire but the floors fail most rickety tick.
Roland
Rol
100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
rongreenman .
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:50 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
rongreenman .
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 5:50 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
I think this guy's concern is to fighting fires and firefighter safety
regarding floor collapse. On the one hand I can&#x
ent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 5:09 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
>
> Its in the PA UCC, which he's operating under. It was added to the 2009
> edition after they took out the residential sprinkler requirement.
>
> Its also now
-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ben Young
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 5:09 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
Its in the PA UCC, which he's operating under. It was added t
klerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Mote
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 1:41 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
In re reading my earlier posts I may have missta
Its in the PA UCC, which he's operating under. It was added to the 2009
edition after they took out the residential sprinkler requirement.
Its also now included in the 2012 edition of the IRC.
We prefer to not call it a sprinkler system, but as a fire rating
equivalency.
Richard, I remember Geo
2013 4:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
Richard,
As an AHJ I thought I understood what your AHJ was asking. I was even preparing
a cogent explanation to help you understand; but then you posted this comment
about how the AHJ is asking for sprinklers beca
13 12:40 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
The AHJ is telling the builder that if they had used conventional framing IE,
2"x12" @ 16 oc there would not be an issue. He says that the TJI's will burn
faster than conventional framing therefore he wants them protec
How about a Pressure Tank instead of Tank and Pump?
-Original Message-
From: Richard Mote [mailto:rich...@rowesprinkler.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:07 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
I don't want to spend a lot of time on
...@mfp-inc.com
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
Cahill, Christopher
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:00 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or
inkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ben Young
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:02 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
You use residential pendants and cpvc if within the listing. You can use the
pendants because the owner may one day
570-837-7647
> F 570-837-6335
>
> -Original Message-
> From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ben Young
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:41 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
&g
---Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richard
Mote
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 2:40 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
The AHJ is telling the
ssage-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ben Young
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:41 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
Yes, you do it per 13d. Also check out the 2012 ver
: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
In NFPA-1 Section 13.3.2.2 requires that Basements exceeding 2500 ft2
(232 m2) in new buildings shall be protected throughout by an approved
automatic sprinkler system. Thanks
Inspector Joe Triolo
Hudson Fire Prevention
-Original
...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Mote
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 2:40 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
The AHJ is telling the builder that if they had used conventional framing
IE, 2"x12" @ 16 oc there would not be an issue. He says that
Ladies/Gents:
'Site' unseen - I would look at it as 13'D'/two-sprinkler design...This would
be predicated, however, on what the basement is likely to have in it - Normal
residential setting OR storage of tires, combustible liquids, heavy fuel
loading encroaching on OH-2?? With potential invest
esprinkler.org [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis Mack
> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:33 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
>
> Does NFPA 1 apply to a single family residence?
>
&g
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:35 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: NFPA 13D or 13?
It seems like it would be massive overkill to design this per 13, so I'd do the
design for 13D. It might be prudent to ask the AHJ for his opinion since he
seems to modifying the rules
@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
Does NFPA 1 apply to a single family residence?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:tm...@mfpdesign.com
On 12/5/2013 1:31 PM, Triolo, Joe wrote:
> In NFPA-1 Sect
It seems like it would be massive overkill to design this per 13, so I'd do
the design for 13D. It might be prudent to ask the AHJ for his opinion since
he seems to modifying the rules at his fancy.
Marc Walter, SET
Sprinkler Design Services
Seaside, OR 97138
(503) 956-4019
-Original Message-
Of Todd
Letterman
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:15 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
Wow! So much for life safety? Does the AHJ have a reason for this?
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:11 PM
to smaller sections.
rick matsuda
city of dallas
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Mote
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 2:24 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Su
...@lists.firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd
Letterman
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:15 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
Wow! So much for life safety? Does the AHJ have
:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd
Letterman
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:15 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: NFPA 13D or 13?
Wow! So much for life safety? Does the AHJ have a reason for this
And I suppose the requirement is based on limited egress for the small army
of illegal immigrant workers toiling away in the potential basement
sweatshop. As Chris said when they start making things up nothing we say
has any more significance than their own magic does.
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:1
Since the AHJ is seemingly making thing up any advice you get here would be
worthless. This is a question for the AHJ.
If it's a single family home 13D seems applicable. I'd say once have to do the
basement seems like the investment is already there and do the whole house 13D
for not much mor
Wow! So much for life safety? Does the AHJ have a reason for this?
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:11 PM, "Richard Mote" wrote:
>
> I guess I will have to show my ignorance, I can count on one hand the number
> of 13D systems I have designed in the last 10 years. This project is a 13
Greg,
I ran into this on a 13R system a couple of years ago. The closet was abut the
same size. We ended up putting one in because we could not find an exception
and didn't want to deal with any liability issues. Agreed that this is stupid
and something the Committee should consider. (such as
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