Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licensing the license

2011-12-13 Per discussione Erik Johansson
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 17:08, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: We have had a request for another big open organisation to re-use our contributor terms [1] and summary [2] . Both the terms and the summary are by default already published under CC-BY-SA 2.0.  However, my initial

[OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, apologies if this is the 2nd or 3rd time you're reading this, I have posted to dev and legal-talk yesterday in the hope that any major bugs could be ironed out before I announce this to a wider audience. I have added a world-wide license change map to OSM Inspector:

[OSM-talk] H.O.T OSM manual and learning OSM in Uganda

2011-12-13 Per discussione Douglas Musaazi
Hi all, We have started training some people about how to go about OSM, using the H.O.T training manual. JOSM is a good editor, but  was wondering why it's the only one that was included in the manual. Otherwise the manual is concise, we are even including potlatch 2 as one of the training

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Floris Looijesteijn
So now we're remapping??? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Remapping states you can just delete a node and add a new one to resolve a license issue. I can hardly imagine that is legally right. Greets, Floris Looijesteijn On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Thomas Davie
The key is to have your own valid source for the information. If your can source the data in a license compatible way and recreate the node yourself without the use of the old node, then it's all good. if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; } On 13 Dec 2011, at 09:29, Floris Looijesteijn

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Floris Looijesteijn
That's exactly why I'm asking. Most nodes ('information type' nodes like POI) can not be easily verified by another source except for resurveying. I think that should be made more clear on the remapping page. Or am I being paranoid? :) Greets, Floris On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Thomas

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Jo
Go ahead, it's a wiki. I found a way to make screencasts. Would it be useful to create a screencast of an editing session with JOSM, while I'm resolving license issues? Jo 2011/12/13 Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu That's exactly why I'm asking. Most nodes ('information type' nodes like

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu wrote: Most nodes ('information type' nodes like POI) can not be easily verified by another source except for resurveying. It is true that information type nodes will require re-surveying or good knowledge. It is however not true that these

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Floris Looijesteijn
Oh course, that's right. I was talking about single nodes, not part of a way. I've added a little note to the wiki. Greets, Floris Looijesteijn On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu wrote:    Most nodes

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Floris Looijesteijn wrote: I think that should be made more clear on the remapping page. You mean the fact that the _very_ _first_ _sentence_ of the main page content is Remapping means 'replacing with new content'. It does not mean simply copying the old content - that might infringe the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Floris Looijesteijn
I just think it's unclear... deleting and recreating is probably not considered copying by some people. greets, floris On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Floris Looijesteijn wrote: I think that should be made more clear on the remapping page. You

Re: [OSM-talk] What's wrong with this picture?

2011-12-13 Per discussione David Groom
- Original Message - From: Michal Migurski m...@stamen.com To: Talk Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] What's wrong with this picture? On Dec 12, 2011, at 8:38 AM, David Groom wrote: I recently made some updates to

Re: [OSM-talk] License Change View on OSM

2011-12-13 Per discussione Hillsman, Edward
Let me get this straight. In the past, FormerMapper created a node or a way under the license as it stood. NewMapper, who has agreed to the new license terms, has modified the node or way by changing the alignment or location, or adding detail based on observation in the field-correcting what

Re: [OSM-talk] H.O.T OSM manual and learning OSM in Uganda

2011-12-13 Per discussione Erik Johansson
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:24, Douglas Musaazi douglasmusa...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, We have started training some people about how to go about OSM, using the H.O.T training manual. JOSM is a good editor, but  was wondering why it's the only one that was included in the manual. Otherwise

Re: [OSM-talk] License Change View on OSM

2011-12-13 Per discussione Jo
2011/12/13 Hillsman, Edward hills...@cutr.usf.edu Let me get this straight. In the past, FormerMapper created a node or a way under the license as it stood. NewMapper, who has agreed to the new license terms, has modified the node or way by changing the alignment or location, or adding detail

Re: [OSM-talk] License Change View on OSM

2011-12-13 Per discussione Janko Mihelić
Has anyone used HOT's Task management for cleaning maps of dirty elements? This could improve involvement and progression checking.. Janko Mihelić ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
What will happen to buildings that were drawn by a CT-agreeing mapper but with tags copied from a red node? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione 80n
There are some people [1] who are starting to get upset about the fact that contributions that they are making will get deleted on April 1st. Innocent contributors who know little or nothing about the license change are happily editing roads that will soon get deleted. There's little to tell

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Adam Hoyle
Wow, that's scary, most of the major towns around where I live are going to cease to be. Actually, I've just looked in more detail at some of the areas I've been editing, and think there is a bug somewhere. For example (there are a lot more examples):

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 13 December 2011 11:52, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Remapping means 'replacing with new content'. It does not mean simply copying the old content - that might infringe the original mapper's rights. Is that statement even correct? If editing old content after May 12 doesn't

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Adam Hoyle wrote: For example (there are a lot more examples): http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=-0.81228lat=51.72366zoom=17 shows a path with red nodes, but I added that and no-one else has edited If you look at the history of each node, you can see who's edited it. In this case,

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Michael Andersen
There's no bug there If you examine more closely you'll notice that those 7 nodes were added by user 'ngent'. You're probably listed as the only contributor to the path because it was part of a longer path which was cut in 2 by you (when you cut up ways you get listed as original author of one

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Michael Collinson
Hi Adam, Yes, you have definitely accepted the new terms. You can check the UK list at http://odbl.de/great_britain.html I opened the same location with the on-line Potlatch editor http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.723507lon=-0.812403zoom=18 It looks like the way itself is yours

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Weait
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 1:08 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] Isn't it time to block edits to non-CT content? And that would allow reconciling and improving that non-CT data how? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
80n wrote: Isn't it time to block edits to non-CT content? There is certainly an issue here, and what you describe as non-CT content can take two forms. There is content that will not be relicensed. This is the content input by those who have declined the Contributor Terms. I agree that it

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 11:57 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: What will happen to buildings that were drawn by a CT-agreeing mapper but with tags copied from a red node? Presumably nothing will happen, since there is no easy way of identifying these. So this is an easy loophole - if you see any red nodes

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 2:02 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: People are increasingly deleting such content and replacing with new content, often using the new sources which were not available when the content was first input (e.g. Bing imagery and OS OpenData) and that's good. Disagree. It's only good if

Re: [OSM-talk] License Change View on OSM

2011-12-13 Per discussione Simon Poole
I've started work on producing Garmin maps based on Frederiks data: http://odbl.poole.ch/garmin/ While still very experimental, they should already be useful. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

[OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Hillsman, Edward
This will sound like I'm ranting, and if it does, that's not my intent. I'm really wanting to help creating additional problems. So . . . It won't help improving and reconciling the non-CT data. But it will keep anyone else from adding (and then losing) data to features slated for deletion.

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione john whelan
Fascinating, I was always taught that reliability was the most important thing to end users. In Ottawa it looks like many footpaths, steps etc will be the big losers. The imported road network looks fine. So it looks like the tools and specialist maps for the disabled, ones that make use of

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 2:30 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/13/2011 08:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Presumably nothing will happen, since there is no easy way of identifying these. So this is an easy loophole - if you see any red nodes that represent points of interest, replace them with building

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Toby Murray
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 1:30 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Fascinating, I was always taught that reliability was the most important thing to end users. In Ottawa it looks like many footpaths, steps etc will be the big losers. The imported road network looks fine. So it looks

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 12/13/2011 08:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: I have done many edits of this sort over the years. It has been standard practice for a long time. Any tainting has already happened. I am not talking about any tainting that has happened in the past without people having thought about it.

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 2:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/13/2011 08:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: I have done many edits of this sort over the years. It has been standard practice for a long time. Any tainting has already happened. I am not talking about any tainting that has happened in the

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Mike N
On 12/13/2011 2:27 PM, Hillsman, Edward wrote: Thinking in terms of a NEW user, who is already facing a steep learning curve to contribute to OSM, and who has by default accepted the new CT, and may not even know about the license change, such a person has every right to expect that his/her

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Toby Murray
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: I have done many edits of this sort over the years. It has been standard practice for a long time. Any tainting has already happened. Yeah expanding nodes into buildings is pretty standard practice for me whenever I'm

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
It would be useful to have an idea of how many objects have been edited by a red user *and then edited by someone else*. These are the biggest problem in terms of damage. It's also important to keep in mind that relations are the most vulnerable of all, and do not show up on this view.

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Adam Hoyle
Thank you all - I was looking at the Way, not the individual points, and it was obviously one that was there before I started mapping that I then edited. Is the process for deciding whether or not to delete a node set in stone? I am fairly sure that I have moved the majority of those nodes from

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Graham Jones
Is the process for deciding whether or not to delete a node set in stone? I am fairly sure that I have moved the majority of those nodes from where they were originally (I am fairly sure because there was originally only 1 path on OSM going up the hill when there are 2 different paths on the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 4:03 PM, Graham Jones wrote: I see there are three potential reasons for someone neither accepting nor declining the terms: * They really do not agree with them, but for some reason that I can not think of they decide not to click the 'decline' button - These are an

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Adam Hoyle
Hi Richard, On 13 Dec 2011, at 18:34, Richard Fairhurst wrote: In this case, opening the area in Potlatch 2 shows those nodes highlighted in orange, which P2 uses to mean someone who edited this way hasn't responded to the CTs yet. You can click on any of these nodes and then, using the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Weait
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, it sounds mad, and I find it hard to believe that 'we' would do this.   Surely we need to apply a bit of pragmatism to  this and think about 'reasonableness'? I can see that it is reasonable to delete the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Adam Hoyle wrote: is there something else I need to do? It'll only work in the default, 'Potlatch' map style (not 'Network' or 'Wireframe' or others - I need to fix that!) but apart from that, yes, that should be all you need to do. cheers Richard -- View this message in context:

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione john whelan
What you can do is create an osm file on your local hard drive, in JOSM download a very small area with nothing in it. New download the area you have made edits in as a separate download. Select on username so user:xyz Merge the selection onto your empty map and save it locally. Then after the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione john whelan
The intentions don't matter here, its to be able to defend the new licensing / copyright in court you need to show all the content has come from people who have accepted the new license. Its a lawyer thing and I'm not even sure that in the US OSM has a solid case anyway. Street names are facts

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
How does the OSMF plan to handle split or combined ways? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 4:25 PM, john whelan wrote: The intentions don't matter here, its to be able to defend the new licensing / copyright in court you need to show all the content has come from people who have accepted the new license. Which is impossible because of the common practice of copying

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Adam, On 12/13/2011 09:39 PM, Adam Hoyle wrote: Is the process for deciding whether or not to delete a node set in stone? I am fairly sure that I have moved the majority of those nodes from where they were originally (I am fairly sure because there was originally only 1 path on OSM going up the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Floris Looijesteijn
and do those, and the other examples mentioned before show up in the inspector as problematic? i think they should. gr, floris On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: How does the OSMF plan to handle split or combined ways?

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione 80n
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 1:08 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] Isn't it time to block edits to non-CT content? And that would allow reconciling and improving that non-CT data how? I don't think I made any point

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Graham Jones
On 13 December 2011 21:25, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: The intentions don't matter here, its to be able to defend the new licensing / copyright in court you need to show all the content has come from people who have accepted the new license. It will only come to court if someone

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Adam Hoyle
On 13 Dec 2011, at 21:20, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Adam Hoyle wrote: is there something else I need to do? It'll only work in the default, 'Potlatch' map style (not 'Network' or 'Wireframe' or others - I need to fix that!) but apart from that, yes, that should be all you need to do. Oh

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 13 December 2011 22:30, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/13/2011 4:25 PM, john whelan wrote: The intentions don't matter here, its to be able to defend the new licensing / copyright in court you need to show all the content has come from people who have accepted the new

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Peter Wendorff
Am 13.12.2011 20:59, schrieb Nathan Edgars II: On 12/13/2011 2:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/13/2011 08:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: I have done many edits of this sort over the years. It has been standard practice for a long time. Any tainting has already happened. I am not

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 13 December 2011 22:03, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, it sounds mad, and I find it hard to believe that 'we' would do this.   Surely we need to apply a bit of pragmatism to  this and think about 'reasonableness'? I can see that it is reasonable to delete the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: Even in law exists the distinction between crimes done willingly and those done unwillingly or without knowledge. You don't get necessarily out of the case without any harm if you didn't know or didn't want it, but often you have to do/pay/be

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Adam Hoyle
On 13 Dec 2011, at 21:34, Frederik Ramm wrote: On 12/13/2011 09:39 PM, Adam Hoyle wrote: Is the process for deciding whether or not to delete a node set in stone? I am fairly sure that I have moved the majority of those nodes from where they were originally (I am fairly sure because there

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione 80n
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: 80n wrote: Isn't it time to block edits to non-CT content? There is certainly an issue here, and what you describe as non-CT content can take two forms. There is content that will not be relicensed. This is the

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Adam Hoyle wrote: Oh wow - I must have been on some long gone map style, it's all looking very different now I've changed the map style (and looking good too). Am I right in saying that purple outlines mean things are part of a hiking route, and green outline means foot route right?

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 12/13/2011 10:52 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: We're not talking about crimes here, but about copyright status. No. The only thing I was talking about was that if you should have the audacity to publicly proclaim loopholes in the process and that you intend to use them, I will block

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
80n wrote: The two forms you describe are quite irrelevant and just muddy the water. Can you answer the question, please? You have edited a bunch of stuff in the North Cotswolds, which is an area very near where I live and which I care about. I remember one changeset called Cotswolds, another

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione David Earl
On 13/12/2011 21:38, 80n wrote: You've known for quite some time that non-CT content will ultimately get deleted. The original promise was that it requires a critical mass to proceed. According to the OSMF wiki there are fewer than three quarters agreeing, and some of the major countries

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 5:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: No. The only thing I was talking about was that if you should have the audacity to publicly proclaim loopholes in the process and that you intend to use them, I will block your account. I have already used them many times as part of normal editing,

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 13 December 2011 22:46, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: Am 13.12.2011 20:59, schrieb Nathan Edgars II: There is no difference in terms of acceptability under the ODBL+CT. Such copying is either OK or not. Even in law exists the distinction between crimes done willingly and

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Now you can see how much vandalism the OSMF will carry out on April Fools

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Weait
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 6:13 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: I think Frederik has managed to decimate more of London than five years of bombing did during WW2 ;) Your smiley is poor compensation for that analogy. You owe Frederik and this list an apology. Shame, George, Shame!

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Pieren
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Could someone explain why the way_id 4776297 is reported as created by non-agreers on osmi: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=5.98159lat=45.34536zoom=17overlays=wtfe_line_created Current version is 21:

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione 80n
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: It is important to note that the OSM Inspector view is not the final word - not even an official word - on the question of what gets deleted. It is just my interpretation of the current situation. Frederik, If the OSM

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 12/13/2011 11:20 PM, Pieren wrote: Could someone explain why the way_id 4776297 is reported as created by non-agreers on osmi: [...] we can see that version 1 has been created by user_7568 (user_id=7568): http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/user_7568 which is reported as accepted CT's

[OSM-legal-talk] Low-edit decliners

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Weait
Hi all, As of moments ago, 419 accounts have declined CT/ODbL. That sounds like a large number, but it is fewer than 1% of the over 54,000 accounts who have accepted CT/ODbL. Of the declining accounts, 56 have never submitted data to OpenStreetMap. An additional 167 accounts have fewer than 10

[OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data

2011-12-13 Per discussione Eric Marsden
Creative Commons recently confirmed that the next version of its licences will attempt to cover sui generis database rights. Version 4.0 is planned to be available at the end of 2012. This was previously mentioned here as a possible alternative to the destructive ODbL process. I don't see any

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Ian
On Tuesday, December 13, 2011 12:34:34 PM UTC-6, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Adam Hoyle wrote: For example (there are a lot more examples): http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfelon=-0.81228lat=51.72366zoom=17 shows a path with red nodes, but I added that and no-one else has edited If

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione 80n
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:03 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.comwrote: On 13/12/2011 21:38, 80n wrote: You've known for quite some time that non-CT content will ultimately get deleted. The original promise was that it requires a critical mass to proceed. According to the OSMF wiki

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
80n wrote: David, many people have been coerced or suckered into agreeing. I've been badgered many times (including three times today, on this very thread by an OSMF board member). No. I am badgering you to say what you will do, or explain why you will not say. Obviously, I would prefer it

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Adam Hoyle
On 13 Dec 2011, at 21:59, Richard Fairhurst wrote: I can't emphasise enough the importance of contacting people and asking them to agree. It really works. Is there any tool out there that can highlight the red users in a given area? Fredrick, is that at all possible to add to your excellent,

Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data

2011-12-13 Per discussione Henk Hoff
Eric, Yes, it has been considered in the past. There even have been conference calls between the LWG and CC about this subject. Currently it is unknown what that this license will look like. Looking at the current situation, the ODbL is a step forward from the current CC-BY-SA 2.0. When (in due

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Jo
Critical mass is there, at a ratio of more than a 100/1 and that is of the people who had to speak out their opinion. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have a doubt the license change will proceed. So remapping makes a lot of sense from now on and I'm glad I'm not the only one who is doing it any

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 12/13/2011 11:41 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: No. I am badgering you to say what you will do, or explain why you will not say. Personally I feel that it is unfortunate that we're allowing people to remain undecided for so long. Had 80n properly disagreed when he was first asked, his

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Creative Commons wants your input on the 4.0 license process

2011-12-13 Per discussione Mike Linksvayer
Yes, it is. Apologies for not pinging this list directly and immediately, but now I'll point out two issue pages that might be of particular personal interest to some of you, and of long-term interest to OSM: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/4.0/ShareAlike (scope of SA and potential compatibility

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
How about before we start attempting to rescue anything from the OSMF, we make sure we know what we're doing? What is the proper way to edit an object that has been modified by a decliner? What is the proper way to do this to a relation, especially one with many members and many revisions? How

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 6:38 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Because we gain nothing from major contributors holding out until the very last day and then, smilingly, tell us you know what, I've decided to disagree after all. That's four winter months wasted when they could have been perfectly well used for

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Mikel Maron
Everyone, I'm seeing some really ugly and useless discussion on this thread. Yes, there are some real technical issues to discuss with the final stages of the license change, but those substantial issues are now lost in this thread. Review the etiquette rules

Re: [OSM-talk] License Change View on OSM

2011-12-13 Per discussione Andrew Errington
On Tue, December 13, 2011 23:17, Jo wrote: I'm also taking the opportunity to align all the other features on bing. Have you checked the local alignment of Bing aerials? Where I am they can be offset by as much as 20 metres! I have to realign the aerial photo layer before tracing anything from

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Martin Koppenhoefer
Hi John, fyi, you can also create a new (empty) layer with ctrl+n. cheers, Martin 2011/12/13 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com: What you can do is create an osm file on your local hard drive, in JOSM download a very small area with nothing in it.  New download the area you have made edits in

[OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione David Earl
On Tuesday, December 13, 2011, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Critical mass is there, at a ratio of more than a 100/1 and that is of the people who had to speak out their opinion. That's not the point. Since not making a decision is the same as declining for the purposes of data survival, deleting

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Simon Poole
David I'm not quite sure where you got your numbers from, but it is clear that in terms of outright deletions we are talking of less than 5%. See odbl.poole.ch Simon David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com schrieb: On Tuesday, December 13, 2011, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Critical mass is

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Jo
2011/12/14 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com On Tuesday, December 13, 2011, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Critical mass is there, at a ratio of more than a 100/1 and that is of the people who had to speak out their opinion. That's not the point. Since not making a decision is the same

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Per discussione Jo
The numbers come from Frederik's map and some areas really look dramatic. odbl.poole.ch and http://odbl.de come to very optimistic conclusions. Possibly because they only consider the last contributor to an object or another metric which doesn't hold water. Jo 2011/12/14 Simon Poole

[OSM-talk] Mails to undecided mappers (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)

2011-12-13 Per discussione Tobias Knerr
David Earl wrote: I'll certainly be contacting people now Frederick has provided an easy means to evaluate the data, but I'm not overly optimistic about people replying - I run a membership database and find maybe 10% of people change their email addresses each year, and half of those don't

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Richard Weait
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Adam Hoyle adam.li...@dotankstudios.com wrote: Is there any tool out there that can highlight the red users in a given area? In JOSM, use select-all (crtl-a) then look at the list of authors in the author panel (alt-b). This will give you a list of accounts

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Russ Nelson
Nathan Edgars II writes: I have done many edits of this sort over the years. It has been standard practice for a long time. Any tainting has already happened. I agee with Nathan. I do this all the time. Mostly it's to GNIS POIs, but the principle remains: some tainting of information cannot

Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data

2011-12-13 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Henk Hoff toffeh...@gmail.com wrote: Changing to ODbL or CC4 (possibly in the future) does not change the presence of the Contributor Terms. Is it possible to migrate from CC3 to CC4 without CTs? Steve ___ talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data

2011-12-13 Per discussione Mike Dupont
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Henk Hoff toffeh...@gmail.com wrote: Changing to ODbL or CC4 (possibly in the future) does not change the presence of the Contributor Terms. Is it possible to migrate from CC3 to CC4

Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 12/14/11 05:51, Steve Bennett wrote: Changing to ODbL or CC4 (possibly in the future) does not change the presence of the Contributor Terms. Is it possible to migrate from CC3 to CC4 without CTs? Possible generally - I believe so. Advisable for us - I believe not. Only recently a

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Aanbod van een ambulance rijder

2011-12-13 Per discussione Henk Hoff
Hoi Stefan, Heb je hier al een response op gehad? Gr, Henk 2011/11/24 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de Goedeavond, Ik kreeg vanavond het aanbod van een Ambulance rijder om de problemen die zij aan hun kaartenboer terugmelden ook op te sturen naar OpenStreetMap. Zij werken nu met CitiGIS

[OSM-talk-nl] Bushaltes en GSM antennes

2011-12-13 Per discussione Floris Looijesteijn
Hoi allen en vooral Stefan, Ik heb de discussie op talk@osm over de licentieverandering weer flink aangezwengeld, dus laat ik dat hier nog eens dunnetjes over doen :) Inmiddels zijn er veel gebruikers akkoord gegaan [1], ik had nog niet eens gemerkt dat 3dshapes en AND dat inmiddels ook hebben

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Aanbod van een ambulance rijder

2011-12-13 Per discussione Stefan de Konink
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 13-12-11 22:17, Henk Hoff schreef: Heb je hier al een response op gehad? Nog niet hier, en nog niet persoonlijk. Maar als iemand dit wil doen vereist dat zeker enige 'educatie' aan de betreffende persoon wat OpenStreetMap zou kunnen gebruiken.

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Bushaltes en GSM antennes

2011-12-13 Per discussione Stefan de Konink
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 13-12-11 22:50, Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Stefan is niet akkoord met de CT en ik verwacht ook niet dat dat nog gaat gebeuren :) Zoals nu al menig keer verteld: GEEF ME EEN OPTIE OM CHANGESETS TE ACCEPTEREN EN IK GA AKKOORD VOOR DIE

[Talk-de] Lizenzwechsel-View im OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hallo, der OSM Inspector hat jetzt eine Lizenzwechselkarte, die taeglich aktualisiert wird und alle (*) Objekte zeigt, die vermutlich vom Lizenzwechsel betroffen sind: Auf tools.geofabrik.de/osmi gehen und dann oben im Dropdown License Change auswaehlen. Oder:

Re: [Talk-de] Google maps nutzt Geobasisdaten

2011-12-13 Per discussione Franz
Hi, Ich denke, was wir bräuchten - und dann hielte ich es für sinnvoll - wäre ein Kataster-Overlay, bei dem man zusätzliche Daten ablesen kann, während man editiert. Klar: Wir müssen auch dazu kommen, dass Leute aufhören, ausschließlich von Luftbildern abzuzeichnen. Aber Ein

Re: [Talk-de] Google maps nutzt Geobasisdaten - Motivation

2011-12-13 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hallo, On 12/13/11 08:55, Markus wrote: Wir tun gut daran, eventuelle negative Entwicklungen im Keim zu entdecken und rechtzeitig umzusteuern. Wenn es also OSMer gbt, die für OSM brennen, und das plötzlich (meist schleichend oder mit bestimmten Ereignissen verbunden) nicht mehr tun, dann sind

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