On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 02:31, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote:
2009/12/6 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
There have been some independent reviews of ODbL.
snip
There is also Andrea Rossato who the Italian OSM community hired
independently to review the license.
I believe
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
I'm not sure if it's enforceable or not. And I've asked on the legal list
(so far without an answer) whether or not agreeing to the Contributor Terms
requires also agreeing to the ODbL in ways that purport to reach beyond
copyright
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 8:40 AM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote:
I have been subscribed to the OSM-talk mailing list for about two months
now; this current discussion is the first that I have heard of the
license-change issue. So, if there has been ongoing discussion of the issue
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 8:10 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/12/6 SteveC st...@asklater.com:
By letting them know FUD and BS will be shot down.
And you are coming off just as unrational as you are claiming they are
being and not helping fence sitters one bit.
If you
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 10:10 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
I have been subscribed to the OSM-talk mailing list for about two months now;
this current discussion is the first that I have heard of the license-change
issue. So, if there has been ongoing discussion of the issue
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
I'm not sure if it's enforceable or not. And I've asked on the legal
list
(so far without an answer) whether or not agreeing to the Contributor
Terms
Steve,
SteveC wrote:
How is insulting people going to help things?
By letting them know FUD and BS will be shot down.
I understand that most statements you are responding to seem stupid,
unnecessary or inappropriate to you. You might even think that those who
posted them should really know
: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has
started
On Dec 5, 2009, at 18:17, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com
wrote:
SteveC schrieb:
On Dec 5, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Ulf Lamping wrote:
With a gun at their head: Refuse: After the migration (currently
26th February 2010), your
On Dec 5, 2009, at 20:51, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote:
Steve,
SteveC wrote:
How is insulting people going to help things?
By letting them know FUD and BS will be shot down.
I understand that most statements you are responding to seem stupid,
unnecessary or inappropriate to
SteveC schrieb:
On Dec 5, 2009, at 19:40, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/12/6 SteveC st...@asklater.com:
By letting them know FUD and BS will be shot down.
And you are coming off just as unrational as you are claiming they are
being and not helping fence sitters one
On Dec 5, 2009, at 21:15, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com
wrote:
SteveC schrieb:
On Dec 5, 2009, at 19:40, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/12/6 SteveC st...@asklater.com:
By letting them know FUD and BS will be shot down.
And you are coming off just as
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote:
Creative Commons, of course, has practising copyright lawyers too. They
have
said that CC-BY-SA isn't applicable to data and we shouldn't use it.
They also said this about the ODbL:
In brief, we believe that the
Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a
policy*.
It's pretty stupid but that's their policy. It's like the RIAA have a
closed policy and the consensus is viral in OSM.
Yours c.
Steve
On Dec 5, 2009, at 21:36, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009
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SteveC schreef:
Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a policy*.
What a non-sense, every academic works with attribution of past work.
Including attribution in testsets and data being available.
You are getting a bit
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a policy*.
PD-like licenses? You mean for databases of facts? Or am I misinterpreting
PD-like?
It's pretty stupid but that's their policy.
Well, you may think
On Dec 5, 2009, at 21:52, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote:
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SteveC schreef:
Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a
policy*.
What a non-sense, every academic works with attribution of past work.
Including
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:30 AM, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote:
Shaun McDonald schrieb:
The License Working Group has spent months, well probably nearer years, on
the license change. They know one heck of a lot more about legal systems
than myself. They are people that I trust.
On Dec 5, 2009, at 21:53, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a
policy*.
PD-like licenses? You mean for databases of facts? Or am I
misinterpreting PD-like?
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:00 AM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
On Dec 5, 2009, at 21:53, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:42 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com
st...@asklater.com wrote:
Of course they said that, they only support PD-like licenses *as a
policy*.
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
I don't know, I find it somewhat mind-boggling that a site like OSM would
even consider resorting to browse-through license agreements in order
to
impose
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Matt Amos schreef:
we're talking about moving to another
license with very similar requirements, but a different
implementation, and that's not open and free anymore? it would
really help me if i could understand your position.
Its honestly
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 4:53 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
I don't know, I find it somewhat mind-boggling that a site like OSM
would
even consider
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 5:37 AM, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote:
Matt Amos schreef:
we're talking about moving to another
license with very similar requirements, but a different
implementation, and that's not open and free anymore? it would
really help me if i could understand your
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
CC BY-SA imposes requirements *using* copyright law.
No it doesn't. Copyright law imposes requirements. CC-BY-SA provides a
waiver to some of those requirements.
ODbL, on the other hand, is a standard bilateral
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:00 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
our choices are basically the following:
1) continue to use a license which legal experts seem to agree doesn't
work for us.
2) move to a new license.
option (2) will likely mean that some data is lost and i don't think
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
CC BY-SA imposes requirements *using* copyright law.
No it doesn't. Copyright law imposes requirements. CC-BY-SA provides a
waiver to some of those
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Matt Amos schreef:
1) continue to use a license which legal experts seem to agree doesn't
work for us.
2) move to a new license.
option (2) will likely mean that some data is lost and i don't think
option (1) is what people really want. which
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
CC BY-SA imposes requirements *using* copyright law.
No it doesn't. Copyright law
2009/12/6 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
Might want to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click-through_license . A
quick scan finds one case where the license was found unenforceable (because
it was unconscionable), and several where it was found enforceable.
As I said, the judgement I'm thinking
2009/12/6 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
I prefer 1. Of course, what works for you isn't the same as what works for
me. I'm fine with everything being public domain. Why an open content
project would try to place restrictions on the use of a collection of facts
is beyond me.
If GPLv3 was inspired
On 06/12/2009, at 10:05 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
James Livingston wrote:
For example, I have inferred road positions from the CC-BY-licensed
Queensland DCDB-lite dataset, and have uploaded national park and
world-heritage areas from the CC-BY dataset on data.australia.gov.au.
As I'm not the
the points in that, and therefore
I stand by the viewpoint that in Australia, ODbL has the best chance of
any open, non-clickwrap licence of protecting OSM's data. CC-BY-SA will
not protect it at all.
The e-mail is here:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2009-December/000479.html
-- Forwarded message --
From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org
Date: 2009/12/6
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
To: Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net
Cc: t...@openstreetmap.org
Hi,
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
The ODbL is overseen
OSMF has established a new Blog which will be used to communicate official
announcements and other OSM specific news. You can find it at
http://blog.openstreetmap.org/ or http://blog.osmfoundation.org/
We've kicked off with a first blog about the procurement of the
openstreetmaps.org domain and
I've just added http://blog.osmfoundation.org/ to http://blogs.openstreetmap.org/
(Yep watch that s again)
Shaun
On 16 Oct 2009, at 11:06, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:
OSMF has established a new Blog which will be used to communicate
official
announcements and other OSM
Since the Foundation's website seems to be down [0] and the Foundation's
wiki page isn't very clear [1], I am wondering if someone on the list could
answer a quick question for me:
As the admin for the Google Summer of Code project for OpenStreetMap, I need
to get an invoice from the non-profit
On 11/09/09 19:00, Ian Dees wrote:
Since the Foundation's website seems to be down [0] and the Foundation's
wiki page isn't very clear [1], I am wondering if someone on the list
could answer a quick question for me:
It should be back now - there was a problem with it but Grant is on site
and
Hello,
Am 20.08.2009 um 09:37 schrieb SteveC:
come to your German-only German SOTM your planning because you want
your own little empire and fame.
Where did you get this from?
You and Frederik.
Everybody is of course welcome to the conference
we are planning. The conference language
Gehling Marc wrote:
Sent: 20 August 2009 9:54 AM
To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch
Cc: osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] [Talk-de] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE
Hello,
Am 20.08.2009 um 09:37 schrieb SteveC:
come to your German-only German SOTM your
Christoph Wagner schrieb:
Ich persönlich finde, dass es ok ist - selbst wenn die meisten
OSMF-Leute bei Cloudmade arbeiten.
Ich verstehe den Interessenkonflikt nicht, den du hier implizit
unterstellst. Cloudmade will doch sicher, dass OSM maximal gut wird -
genau wie wir alle. Ich denke auch
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 05:14:12PM +0200, André Reichelt wrote:
Solange ein paar wenige Interessensvertreter in der OSMF sitzen habe ich
damit kein Problem. Schließlich sollen auch die Belange der
kommerziellen Verwerter berücksichtigt werden.
richtig.
Wenn aber die OSMF durch
Mitarbeiter
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
Mein persoenliches Problem ist, dass es fuer viele Leute, besonders aus
nicht-Deutschland, wie mir scheint, sehr schwer ist, das Abstrakte von
dem Konkreten zu trennen. Da sagst Du ich finde, wir sollten
sicherstellen, dass nicht eine einzelne Person zu viel Einfluss
Christoph Wagner freemaps@googlemail.com wrote:
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
Mein persoenliches Problem ist, dass es fuer viele Leute, besonders aus
nicht-Deutschland, wie mir scheint, sehr schwer ist, das Abstrakte von
dem Konkreten zu trennen. Da sagst Du ich finde, wir sollten
Tirkon schrieb:
Das ist wieder der Unterschied zwischen abstrakt und konkret. Deine
Frage geht vom konkreten Fall Cloutmade aus. Um das abstrakte Problem
- so wie ich es hier verstehe - mit einem konkreten Gegenbeispiel
deutlich zu machen: Wie sähe die Sache aus, wenn beispielsweise
Bernd Hohmann hohm...@harddiskcafe.de wrote:
Ähm... Definiere vereinnahmt
Die können sich von mir aus die gesamten Daten greifen, das in
irgendeine MSN-Scheisse übernehmen und danach wie üblich herumkotzen
dass sie überhaupt die Grössten sind.
Ich meine damit zunächst einmal, dass sie die
Tirkon schrieb:
Erst wenns wirklich vereinnahmt wird, dann bekommen die keine Daten
mehr von mir - dafür wird recht schnell ein neuer Dienst aufpoppen der
das wieder als OpenSource anbietet.
Die Frage ist bloß, ob der neue Dienst aufgrund beschränkter
finanzieller Mittel dann dagegen
Bernd Hohmann schrieb:
Tirkon schrieb:
Das ist wieder der Unterschied zwischen abstrakt und konkret. Deine
Frage geht vom konkreten Fall Cloutmade aus. Um das abstrakte Problem
- so wie ich es hier verstehe - mit einem konkreten Gegenbeispiel
deutlich zu machen: Wie sähe die Sache aus, wenn
Ulf Lamping schrieb:
Ähm... Definiere vereinnahmt
Die können sich von mir aus die gesamten Daten greifen, das in
irgendeine MSN-Scheisse übernehmen und danach wie üblich herumkotzen
dass sie überhaupt die Grössten sind.
Lernt man so eine religiöse Verblendung eigentlich heutzutage auf
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Matt Whitemattwh...@iinet.com.au wrote:
Liz wrote:
Big flame war on the OSMF-talk list today
and it didn't even need us Aussies to fuel it.
If you are a member, please vote, it will make life easier for us all if as
many potential voters as possible vote
On 21/08/2009, at 8:16 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
1. nominations open.
2. voting opens
3. nominations close (how can anyone vote if nominations aren't
closed)
4. last minute registrations to vote
5. last minute call to vote (24 hours notice)
Nomination closing after the voting had opened
auch gleich auf die OSMF-ML eintragen lassen. Und jetzt
bin ich doch etwas erstaunt über den harten Ton und die Vorurteile die
dort herrschen. Da ich schon länger im OS-Umfeld tätig bin, bin ich ja
so manches gewohnt (auch von Talk-de). Aber die OSMF-Talk ML schießt
schon den Vogel ab.
Wieso
Hallo Christian,
deine Mail könnte von mir sein.
Meine erste empfangende Mail von osmf-talk hatte als Antwort, das man
an dem harten Ton erkennen könnte, das der Schreiber aus Deutschland
kommt. H.
Die brauchen dringend entspanntere Leute auf der Liste.
Marc
( der sich bisher eher für
die OSMF-Talk ML schießt
schon den Vogel ab.
Das ist aber gerade nur den Umstaenden geschuldet. Normalerweise ist auf
der Liste wochenlang ueberhaupt nichts los, und alle sind relativ
freundlich zueinander (Du kannst ja mal die alten Archive angucken).
Mein persoenliches Problem ist, dass es
--- On Thu, 20/8/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
If you are a member, please vote, it will make life easier
for us all if as
many potential voters as possible vote
or else we will hear for the next three years how the poll
was 'fixed.
This is one reason I've decided to take an active
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 06:12:46PM -0700, SteveC wrote:
But lets look at the real issue, Frederik. You're intensely jealous
that your own firm, GeoFabrik, which you didn't bother to declare in
your anti-CM email, has had little success compared to CloudMade. Your
You probably shouldn't
On 20 Aug 2009, at 00:32, Jochen Topf wrote:
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 06:12:46PM -0700, SteveC wrote:
But lets look at the real issue, Frederik. You're intensely jealous
that your own firm, GeoFabrik, which you didn't bother to declare in
your anti-CM email, has had little success compared to
Hello,
Am 20.08.2009 um 09:37 schrieb SteveC:
come to your German-only German SOTM your planning because you want
your own little empire and fame.
Where did you get this from?
You and Frederik.
Everybody is of course welcome to the conference
we are planning. The conference language
SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
But lets look at the real issue, Frederik. You're intensely jealous
that your own firm, GeoFabrik, which you didn't bother to declare in
your anti-CM email, has had little success compared to CloudMade.
Knowing Frederik in personal for a long time, I can
hah, just voted in the OSMF election - first time I have found people worth
voting for in any election anywhere. In spite of all the hooh hah and
allegations and counter allegations, there is a real good bunch of people
standing for election this time.
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate
SteveC schrieb:
We're in a very difficult position and don't always make the right
choices. CloudMade has contributed tens of thousands of pounds in cash
to the Foundation for things like sponsorship and servers. We've spent
man years on coding work. Nick, me and many other in CloudMade
On 20 Aug 2009, at 00:32, Jochen Topf wrote:
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 06:12:46PM -0700, SteveC wrote:
But lets look at the real issue, Frederik. You're intensely jealous
that your own firm, GeoFabrik, which you didn't bother to declare in
your anti-CM email, has had little success compared to
___
osmf-talk mailing list
osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
___
Talk-de mailing list
Talk-de@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
SteveC schrieb:
We're in a very difficult position and don't always make the right
choices. CloudMade has contributed tens of thousands of pounds in cash
to the Foundation for things like sponsorship and servers. We've spent
man years on coding work. Nick, me and many other in CloudMade
___
osmf-talk mailing list
osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
massive snip about corporate influence
The GNOME foundation fixed this a few years ago by saying that only a
certain percentage of the board. I quote from
http://foundation.gnome.org/about/charter/
No single organization or company will be allowed to control more
than 40% of the board seats,
Hallo,
Tobias Wendorff wrote:
Ich gehe davon aus, dass sie einfach die ersten waren und die
Platzhirsch-Rolle eingenommen haben.
Aber was könnte man machen?
Einen deutschen OSM-Fork mit weltweiten Daten?
Wir würden vor den gleichen Problemen stehen.
Ich denke, wir muessen da zweigleisig
Hallo,
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Ich wiederhole mich, aber ich faende es sehr gut und wichtig, wenn wir
bei der diesjaehrigen OSMF-Versammlung wieder einen Deutschen
Oder Oesterreicher oder Schweizer. Sorry, dass ich immer so
nicht-inklusiv rede.
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
(Ich kann mit gut vorstellen, dass wir zum Beispiel
mal mit einem Tileserver fuer Kacheln im deutschen Stil anfangen,
spaeter vielleicht auch einen DB-Mirror dazu oder einen
Community-Server, auf dem Leute mit guten Ideen und wenig eigener
Server-Power ihre Projekte
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
Ich denke, wir muessen da zweigleisig fahren. Einerseits sollten wir mit
dem bzw. im FOSSGIS e.V. eine starke eigene Organisation und
Infrastruktur aufbauen, die uns in D/A/CH zumindest insoweit von der
Zentrale unabhaengig macht, dass wir eigene Server aufbauen
Hallo,
André Reichelt wrote:
Ich kenne diese Menschen gar nicht, die da die Fäden für OSM ziehen.
Stellen die sich irgendwo vor? Aus welchen Gründen magst du welche
Personen nicht?
Auf osmfoundation.org sind Kurzbiaografien aller Vorstandsmitglieder.
Und wie gesagt, dort sind auch Protokolle
Stefan de Konink wrote:
Grant Slater wrote:
Sorry I cannot write Dutch; I am only able to write in Afrikaans and
English.
No problem, I wonder who pointed you on this thread anyway. Please take
this text as constructive, it is not intended to be written as troll,
flame or whatever. It
Sorry I cannot write Dutch; I am only able to write in Afrikaans and
English.
Stefan:
Wat een non-sense; Kennisnet heeft al een jaar geleden aangeboden OSM
hardware te sponsoren. De OSMF heeft genoeg geld over van de laatste
SOTM, dus er is geen enkele cent van gebruikers nodig om dit te
Grant Slater wrote:
Sorry I cannot write Dutch; I am only able to write in Afrikaans and
English.
No problem, I wonder who pointed you on this thread anyway. Please take
this text as constructive, it is not intended to be written as troll,
flame or whatever. It is written between 2:45 and
Stefan de Konink wrote:
No problem, I wonder who pointed you on this thread anyway. Please
take this text as constructive, it is not intended to be written as
troll, flame or whatever. It is written between 2:45 and 3:30am so...
not the time these mails should be written anyway.
A few
Grant Slater wrote:
Stefan de Konink wrote:
No problem, I wonder who pointed you on this thread anyway. Please
take this text as constructive, it is not intended to be written as
troll, flame or whatever. It is written between 2:45 and 3:30am so...
not the time these mails should be
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