Re: [time-nuts] Re; New Wrist watch

2012-09-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/10/12 6:57 AM, David McGaw wrote: He's making a joke - If you are traveling across time zones, why not just set it to UTC and be done with it? :-) David This is a bigger deal than one might think. Especially since calendaring software tries to be helpful and adjust things. So while y

Re: [time-nuts] HP10514B Mixer Terminations

2012-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/12 9:37 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: What am I missing here? Vce = Vbe, so the diode connected transistor isn't saturated. I think it's where the diode is fully conducting, and into the linear part of the V/I curve, not in the square law part any more. In normal use the LO port

Re: [time-nuts] New wrist Watch

2012-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/12 7:05 AM, Stan, W1LE wrote: Hello The Net: I need to consider getting a new wrist watch, but I need a second hand and a digital display is unacceptable. What would you consider in the < 150$ price range ? Thunderbolt driving a stepper motor? Would be nice to have state of the art

Re: [time-nuts] crystal (or MEMS) oscillators with low hysteresis

2012-09-07 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/7/12 12:20 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I'm guessing that power is also an issue, so cheap OCXO's are out. If that's true, I believe you are already at the "cheap vs good" inflection point with the cell phone TCXO. At < $2 they are pretty tough to beat. Just the fancy crystal in something better

[time-nuts] crystal (or MEMS) oscillators with low hysteresis

2012-09-07 Thread Jim Lux
Consulting the hive-mind here on the list.. If one were looking for small/cheap/mass produced oscillators which have decent phase noise.. what kind has the most repeatable frequency vs temperature curve. The usual 1ppm TCXO has about 0.1 ppm hysteresis, while other less "stable" oscillato

[time-nuts] coupled oscillator book available online

2012-09-02 Thread Jim Lux
A retired coworker of mine (Pogo) just published a book through JPL's DESCANSO series Coupled-Oscillator Based Active-Array Antennas: Ronald J. Pogorzelski and Apostolos Georgiadis http://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/Monograph/series11_chapter.cfm?force_external=0 Why is this interesting to time-n

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/1/12 11:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I suspect that a good IT cut would probably do better than an SC in either application. In the deep space situation, a copper slug in a dewar sounds like a reasonable addition to the design. If you're going to do dewars, then you're talking USOs for wh

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/1/12 8:32 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Observing a curve and being able to compensate it are often two different things. Hysteresis is one very obvious example. Another is simple sensor lag. A some what less obvious one is that the temperature performance is also influenced by the rate of chan

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/1/12 6:56 AM, Arthur Dent wrote: IMO, you have an instrumentation issue. I don't think the power grid can do anything like that. YMMV, -John I agree. If this was happening on the grid by the time this blip had traveled down the line to you it would have been so filtered through transfor

Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

2012-09-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/31/12 11:35 PM, Hal Murray wrote: The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing. I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control signal that the kernel PPS stuff watches. Mostly, it works as expected, but occasionally, it picks or drops a cycle. In order to understand

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-31 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/31/12 7:16 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, that gets you back to the basics of really major delta F / delta T slopes. Bob yeah.. but as long as you know what the curve is.. the NCO has a huge range (after all, we already have to tune over >500 kHz...a few hundred Hz isn't a big deal. A mo

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-31 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/31/12 7:06 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi An SC is going to have it's temperature curve centered up around 95C or so. If it's been cut as an OCXO crystal the turns will be up there as well. By the time it gets to room temp, the delta F / delta T is moving mighty fast. Think in terms of multiple ppm

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
, Jim Lux wrote: On 8/30/12 6:12 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If the temperature is varying slowly *and* there are no gradients you may get your order of magnitude over some range. You might be surprised at your TCXO. A lot of them are pretty darn good in the vicinity of room temp. You may already

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/30/12 6:29 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 08/31/2012 03:12 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If the temperature is varying slowly *and* there are no gradients you may get your order of magnitude over some range. You might be surprised at your TCXO. A lot of them are pretty darn good in the vicinity o

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/30/12 6:12 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If the temperature is varying slowly *and* there are no gradients you may get your order of magnitude over some range. You might be surprised at your TCXO. A lot of them are pretty darn good in the vicinity of room temp. You may already be an order of ma

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/30/12 12:37 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The original patents on the MCXO are government property. One of the Ft. Monmouth guys came up with the fundamental / third overtone idea back in the 80's. Several (at least three) companies were licensed by the government to make the part. Gotta be ca

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/30/12 9:33 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The fundamental / third approach is one of several possible ways to go. You can also run an SC on the B and C modes to get thermometer data. Early implementations used a pair of independent blanks, one cut to be a good thermometer. Some have even gone as fa

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/29/12 9:22 PM, Hal Murray wrote: rich...@karlquist.com said: No it doesn't use a cheap crystal. It uses a *special* SC cut crystal. This crystal could very easily cost more than an OCXO crystal. http://www.q-tech.com/mcxo.html What's special about it? Has to support the overtones pro

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/29/12 8:45 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: On 8/27/2012 11:45 PM, WB6BNQ wrote: A microprocessor controlled XO is a non oven crystal oscillator system that has additional computational control providing a bit more than just mere passive temperature compensation. The additional compu

Re: [time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/27/12 10:45 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 8/27/12 4:15 PM, Rick Karlquist wrote: Several decades ago, the concept of the "smart clock" arose at what was then HP. The idea was as discussed here to "characterize"

[time-nuts] oscillators

2012-08-27 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/27/12 4:15 PM, Rick Karlquist wrote: Several decades ago, the concept of the "smart clock" arose at what was then HP. The idea was as discussed here to "characterize" past aging, "predict" future aging, and then "correct" the aging. The goal wasn't to turn a quartz oscillator into an atomi

Re: [time-nuts] Modern motherboard with RS232 port

2012-08-19 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/19/12 7:26 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: Residential power is traditionally measured in watts, not V-A. Commercial power is typically measured in V-A, with an additional fee for power factor problems. residential meters measure watts (active power) not VA... What you want is the Kill-A-Watt..

Re: [time-nuts] ideas so far for first GPS, NTP project

2012-08-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/18/12 6:23 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: I use one like this (theBay item 270881742870) and it works well in NW Florida under some trees. I could get better performance if I had it up higher but it serves my purposes. There are also ones with higher gain out there as well, up to about 40 dB I

Re: [time-nuts] new member with questions NTP, PRS, GPS, ocxo

2012-08-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/17/12 10:41 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: Regarding the NTP server another option is to buy a stand alone NTP server that can accept a 1pps and or 10 Mhz input, and feed it the GPS or other reference of your chosing. I picked up a Datum unit from ebay which is currently fed 1pps from a Jackson

Re: [time-nuts] Early WWV Oscillator

2012-08-14 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/14/12 1:42 PM, Ron Ward wrote: HI Robert: WOW! Thanks. I need to build a double oven for my thunderbolt and set it to about 50 Degrees C. I am really just trying to reduce the 24 hour temperature range. I am looking at an application note from National Semiconductor, AN 266, for a precisio

Re: [time-nuts] What size graphs do people like? (How big is yourscreen?)

2012-08-13 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/8/12 5:19 AM, Sylvain Munaut wrote: Hi, SVG is uncompressed text. PNG compresses well, at least for simple cases. Decently configured web servers will compress SVG on the fly during transport, wich yields a 9k transfer size. (and your server is definitely not properly configured for SVG

Re: [time-nuts] web presentation of data

2012-08-07 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/6/12 10:43 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Jim Lux wrote: what would be useful is to have some sort of "plotting engine" that is a canned webpage (or stored locally on the user/client computer) that can ingest fairly raw data from a URL..

Re: [time-nuts] web presentation of data

2012-08-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/6/12 9:16 AM, Hal Murray wrote: jim...@earthlink.net said: what would be useful is to have some sort of "plotting engine" that is a canned webpage (or stored locally on the user/client computer) that can ingest fairly raw data from a URL.. ... A low end microcontroller has no problem ser

[time-nuts] web presentation of data

2012-08-06 Thread Jim Lux
what would be useful is to have some sort of "plotting engine" that is a canned webpage (or stored locally on the user/client computer) that can ingest fairly raw data from a URL.. something, conceptually, like this: *invocation of plotting engine* data value 1 data value 2 data value 3

Re: [time-nuts] What size graphs do people like? (How big is your screen?)

2012-08-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/5/12 10:35 PM, Hal Murray wrote: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk said: I load screen shots into Corel Photo Paint 8 and resample the image to a good size for a web page somewhere between 600 and 800 pixels horizontally. Where did 600 or 800 come from? 800 is historical, as is 640 (resolu

Re: [time-nuts] GLONASS receiver

2012-08-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/5/12 5:24 PM, Hal Murray wrote: li...@rtty.us said: The next most likely would be a trucker trying to jam the location stuff on his truck. I'm betting that they will be buying multi mode jammers soon… What is the frequency used by Glonass or Galileo? (I think they are close to and/or ov

Re: [time-nuts] HP 58503A

2012-08-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/2/12 6:24 PM, Doug Reed wrote: I ran into a wiki description of GPS using WGS84 a couple days ago. It included a mention of ESEC and it was something like: Earth Static, Earth Centric. I think I was following a link about the Z3801A. It referred to the fact that lat-lon is referenced to a s

Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared questionfor SFO area....

2012-07-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/28/12 1:32 AM, Said Jackson wrote: We have about 25 different GPSDOs running from four cheap antennae on the roof in Los Gatos right next to Hwy 17, and have not noted any unusual outages at all, even during the recent solar flare. I guess any truckers with jammers on hwy 17 pass by so fa

Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared questionfor SFO area....

2012-07-27 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/27/12 6:42 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: Does anyone know if there is ANY recent active Lightsquared testing taking place in the SFO area of the US? Very unlikely.. they've lost their experimental license. I'm dealing with a day-job issue with GPS clocks in the Bay Area showing "GPS unlock

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for info on an old WWVB receiver

2012-07-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/24/12 8:48 PM, ed breya wrote: I recently picked up an interesting early 1970s vintage WWVB receiver, Model 630, made by "Specific Products" of Monrovia, CA - that's what the adhesive sticker on the front says, and the name "1 MHz Time Base Calibrator (Utilizes WWVB accuracy of 2 parts in 10

Re: [time-nuts] Shorthand

2012-07-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/23/12 3:23 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Pete, Yes, there are several ways to represent frequencies: 1) Absolute units of Hz. For example 60 Hz, or 32.768 kHz, or 3.579545 MHz, or 9.192631770 GHz. Note some modern texts use s⁻¹ (1/s or s-1) instead of Hz or Hertz. Or, you can always show you

Re: [time-nuts] Zero-Crossing Detector Design?

2012-07-19 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/19/12 4:09 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 07/20/2012 12:33 AM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: Are you speaking of slew rate limiting in the strict sense of the word, that is a current starved input stage due to the presence of a compensation cap? Or are you using the term slew more vaguely.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

2012-07-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/15/12 6:25 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: The benefit of WAAS and EGNOS is that they have a fixed location in the sky. so you could use a highly directional antenna, like a parabolic antenna, which would provide suppression of most jamm

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

2012-07-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/15/12 1:32 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: In my view a backup solution that allows the existing gps based timing receivers to be used makes a reasonable ammount of sense. Another approach could involve ground based transmitters on high buildings or mountain tops. Retuned Lightsquared sites?

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

2012-07-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/15/12 12:38 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: Some form of backup to gps would be nice for timing purposes. I wonder if a secondary sattelite based system for timing use only over the continental US might be the way to go. (Ie. a transmitter on a geo stationary sattelite that could emulate enou

Re: [time-nuts] Solar flare alert

2012-07-14 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/14/12 9:19 AM, Joseph Gray wrote: Perhaps some of the cellular bands aren't affected, perhaps some are. I don't know the specific cause of yesterday's loss.. GPS uses around 1200/1500 MHz. The phone in question uses 850/1900 Mhz bands, so I think we're in the neighborhood. GPS signals pas

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting

2012-07-12 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/11/12 7:00 PM, Mike S wrote: On 7/11/2012 8:15 PM, Chris Wilson wrote: Does anyone know if there's a means to log max and min temps for these things? I was going to make a crude box for mine out of 2 inch cavity wall insulation hard foam, The TB reports it's own temperature. Lady Heather

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

2012-07-07 Thread Jim Lux
Exactly. Reflections reverse the cp sense On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:40, Tom Knox wrote: > > Thanks for clearing up any confusion Magnus, one more question, are the any > conditions such as reflected signals that can reverse polarization? > > Thomas Knox > _

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

2012-07-07 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/7/12 9:21 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: I can confirm that I'm 100% sure that the polarization of the two antennas needs to be the same - i.e. both RHCP or both LHCP. I built two of them for RHCP, and got appreciate gain. Despite what other may say, there does seem to be a lot of confusion

Re: [time-nuts] Allan Deviation question

2012-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/12 7:51 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Yes, I'm also interested in how-to. At the moment I think it is a hack: there is no sound card AFAIK that accepts a reference input. I have recently bought an Acqiris/Agilent DP105/U1067A 150MHz 500Ms/s digitizer PCI card that accepts an external 10MHz as

Re: [time-nuts] Allan Deviation question

2012-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/12 7:51 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Yes, I'm also interested in how-to. At the moment I think it is a hack: there is no sound card AFAIK that accepts a reference input. I have recently bought an Acqiris/Agilent DP105/U1067A 150MHz 500Ms/s digitizer PCI card that accepts an external 10MHz as

Re: [time-nuts] gps jamming source found

2012-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/5/12 10:45 PM, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Ed, It's not just just "cheap and nasy" regens that cause this problem. Some aircraft navigation and communication receivers where found to have enough local oscillator harmonic leakage at 1575 MHz through the antenna port to jam GPS then tuned to

Re: [time-nuts] gps jamming source found

2012-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/5/12 6:33 PM, gary wrote: I believe all electronics needs FCC approval for emissions. [Not my job, but I know engineers that complain about compliance testing.] 433MHz is a freeband (ISM). Still, you are supposed to be clean. 433 is NOT an ISM band in the US (or in region 2, for that ma

Re: [time-nuts] Is Timelab with a Prologix-Eth and a PM6680 - working ?

2012-07-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/12 7:34 AM, cfo wrote: I just got a PM6680/016 - Std. Osc + GPIB + 1.3Ghz -Chan.C The best my budget could afford :-) I would like to try out John's Timelab. But only have a Prologix-Ethernet GPIB adapter , no USB version. I was wondering if anyone can confirm that Timelab would work on

Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?

2012-07-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/2/12 7:08 AM, Mike S wrote: On 7/2/2012 9:28 AM, Jim Lux wrote: but if we ARE going to establish artificial connections between wall clock time (work hours, store opening times, bar closing times, etc.) and the sun, why not do it gradually. Time and the sun are certainly a _natural_

Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?

2012-07-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/2/12 6:19 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message <4ff19d3c.4050...@earthlink.net>, Jim Lux writes: which is an interesting thing.. if instead of DST (for which I think there's little practical reason to have in the first place).. say you just shifted the clock one minute earli

Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?

2012-07-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/1/12 10:54 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message <4ff0f373.1020...@pacific.net>, Brooke Clarke writes: Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger one when they make a larger correction? But isn't that exactly why it is a problem ? News coverage of leapseconds are

Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision

2012-07-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/1/12 2:43 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EG&G Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Dow

Re: [time-nuts] !0 MHz standard frequency intruder

2012-06-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/28/12 6:48 PM, David McGaw wrote: You know, if one could get accurate delays from a number of locations, one could triangulate its location - just thinking. :-) This is timenuts... we should collect statistics on the signal and figure out what kind of oscillator they're using...

Re: [time-nuts] Injection locking interconnect

2012-06-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/28/12 3:22 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Bill, On 06/29/2012 12:07 AM, Bill Dailey wrote: Guys, I am looking for info on injection locking. I have been searching around for info. I found an article that probably answers my question but I can't get to it. http://www.oldcitypublishing.com/

Re: [time-nuts] Injection locking interconnect

2012-06-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/28/12 3:07 PM, Bill Dailey wrote: Guys, I am looking for info on injection locking. I have been searching around for info. I found an article that probably answers my question but I can't get to it. http://www.oldcitypublishing.com/FullText/JAPEDfulltext/JAPED2.1fulltext/11-24pp%20GC05

Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Paywall Rant (was Re: Spoofing GPS)

2012-06-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/28/12 6:38 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Very true, and in some cases (Texas case) a judge ruled that an employee that left a firm can never work in that same field again for the rest of their life due to both positive and negative knowledge. Not in California, where such agreements are s

Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Paywall Rant (was Re: Spoofing GPS)

2012-06-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/28/12 5:22 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI, MIT got anal about IP policy in the early 1970s, demanding a transfer of all IP rights to the Institute for everything everyone did. I quit and went into the Consulting business (and wound up getting paid a LOT more for the same work). There is a funda

Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS

2012-06-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/26/12 5:51 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Jim Lux wrote: I did some calculations last year, and if Los Angeles decided to put up a UAV 24/7 to replace things like helicopters, we could expect a crash into the city about once a week. But they could be made

Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS

2012-06-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/26/12 4:42 PM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, your failure rate estimate does not include the probability that some people might not like being spied on by UAVs. I can easily see a market for ground based GPS jammers, especially, in the more rugged, fertile, and inaccessible areas of California.

Re: [time-nuts] Widdershins

2012-06-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/26/12 11:05 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Around 1530, it was considered very bad luck to walk around a church widdershins (see the Wikipedia article). I think it goes back earlier than that, to a time well before clocks. If widdershins means counter-clockwise, how did they know which way clocks

Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS

2012-06-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/26/12 3:38 PM, J. Forster wrote: Whether it's spoofing or jamming, domestic drones are becoming ubiquitous, because they are just so tempting, and sooner or later one is gonna crash onto a populated area, either by accident or deliberate mischief. A piloted aircraft may be able to avoid hit

Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS

2012-06-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/25/12 7:11 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 6:43 PM, wrote: Yeah, I read it. Typical Fox. The headline isn't accurate since they spoofed the civilian GPS system, not the military GPS. I think it is. Currently the military uses GPS guided drones put the article says t

Re: [time-nuts] Sidereal time

2012-06-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/15/12 9:49 PM, Mark Sims wrote: Lady Heather can do sidereal time. Specify either the LMST, LAST, GMST or GAST time zone (for Local/Greenwich Mean/Apparent Sidereal Time). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-n

Re: [time-nuts] Paper about DCF77 performance

2012-06-13 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/13/12 1:38 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Do they grant the right, or do people just get away with it? it is formally granted.. the IEEE instructions for authors or something like that talks about it. You can put your own papers up on your own website, and you make sure you have appropriate

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cabling questions

2012-06-12 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/11/12 10:31 PM, Hal Murray wrote: albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: But you know what? If you simply place an automotive "puck" type GPS antenna on your roof you have to do the same thing. It must be grounded the same way, same lightening protection and so on. So in the end you may as we

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cabling questions

2012-06-10 Thread Jim Lux
Totally agree On Jun 10, 2012, at 19:34, Chris Albertson wrote: > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Jim Lux wrote: > >> >> HOWEVER, your scheme is going to be tricky to pass muster with the >> National Electrical Code. Two aspects need attention: >> You need

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt cabling questions

2012-06-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/10/12 4:24 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:50 PM, wrote: ... 3m of antenna cable is no problem. Antenna position is more important than the exact type of antenna. I'd rather have a decent antenna at a very good site, than a very good antenna at a slightly worse antenn

Re: [time-nuts] Quadrifilar Helix Antenna

2012-06-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/9/12 6:50 PM, David Kirkby wrote: On 10 June 2012 01:39, Jim Lux wrote: NEC can do a pretty good job on a helix, and it's free. I like 4nec2 as a front end. I've never tried NEC on them. I quite like MMANA-GAL myself. But it only supports NEC2. 4nec2 does both NEC2 and NE

Re: [time-nuts] Quadrifilar Helix Antenna

2012-06-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/9/12 5:03 PM, David Kirkby wrote: On 10 June 2012 00:14, Azelio Boriani wrote: Yes, you are right and this is the problem I have. I'm aware that wonderful things can be done starting with a simulator, not just tell whether or not the antenna will be on frequency. I have to fill the gap and

Re: [time-nuts] Procom GPS4 quadrifilar antenna...

2012-06-08 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/8/12 9:21 AM, steve heidmann wrote: Is it worth driving from Thousand Oaks to Altadena for Snowcones (qty 5) tomorrow ? --- On Fri, 6/8/12, Jim Lux wrote: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/events/open-house.cfm Well.. they've got all the stuff setup for JPL open house.. Is it wort

Re: [time-nuts] Procom GPS4 quadrifilar antenna...

2012-06-08 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/8/12 5:20 AM, Michael Baker wrote: Time-nutters-- The Procom website lists the noise-figure of their quadrifilar LNA as: GAIN > 30 dB NOISE FIGURE < 3 dB (incl. input filter). Typ. approx. 3 dB I am a little surprised at this re

Re: [time-nuts] zero crossing of venus

2012-06-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/6/12 7:02 AM, Mike S wrote: On 6/6/2012 9:09 AM, Jim Lux wrote: does anyone have a reference to the math and process used to measure distance from earth to sun using transit of venus? http://transitofvenus.nl/wp/getting-involved/measure-the-suns-distance/ Of course, back in the

Re: [time-nuts] zero crossing of venus

2012-06-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/5/12 5:20 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Attached are two snapshots of a NASA live feed -- an interesting reminder about the difficulty measuring timing signals with great precision. When you look closely, the leading edge of the sun is rather ill-defined, not unlike many 1PPS pulses. I suppose

Re: [time-nuts] zero crossing of venus

2012-06-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/5/12 5:20 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Attached are two snapshots of a NASA live feed -- an interesting reminder about the difficulty measuring timing signals with great precision. When you look closely, the leading edge of the sun is rather ill-defined, not unlike many 1PPS pulses. I suppose

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

2012-06-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/5/12 9:14 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote: The low-E coatings are known to attenuate WIFI. WIFI is probably a worse case than GPS, but the availability of the gear makes experimenting easy. I think they are sputtered metal either on the glass or on a thin

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

2012-06-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/4/12 10:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Hal Murray wrote: What is the significance of the pointy tops of the long skinny antennas? Guessing. Terminates the end of the conductor to prevent a discontinuity and reflection more likely it's for structural

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

2012-06-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/4/12 10:24 PM, Hal Murray wrote: Does window glass have significant attenuation at GPS L1? What if it's a big window on a modern green office building and has some sort of coating/content to reduce IR transmission? Google found an (expensive) paper from IEEE where the abstract said: At

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

2012-06-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/2/12 2:57 PM, Chris Wilson wrote: I am looking to get a frequency standard for my amateur radio shack, initially for verifying test gear readings, but later as a standard to lock receiver and transmitter oscillators to. I was going to buy a GPS frequency standard but a friend w

[time-nuts] xkcd and time scales

2012-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
XKCD has weighed in with a suggestion for time and calendar.. http://xkcd.com/1061/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

2012-05-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/30/12 8:11 AM, John Miles wrote: Unfortunately, although i have a reasonable park of measurement instruments, none of them are in the precision range that i'd need to characterize the 8663's. I have three oscilloscopes (analog 20MHz, digital 200MHz and 1GHz), a cheap handheld frequency co

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

2012-05-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/30/12 6:11 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: Hi, I recently bought some Oscilloquartz 8663 from ebay and am now wondering how to check whether they are working correctly or whether they are out of specs. Unfortunately, although i have a reasonable park of measurement instruments, none of them are i

Re: [time-nuts] Water Proof Vent

2012-05-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/15/12 9:05 AM, Brooke Clarke wrote: Hi: You might consider using a piece Tyvek material. You can get it free from the USPS in the form of a priority mailing envelope or at a construction site where it's used to warp the outside of houses. Passes water vapor and air but not water. I don't

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating phase jitter from phase noise - appnote by silabs

2012-05-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/11/12 1:51 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: Moin, I just stumbled over a nice little summary how to calculate the jitter of a signal from its phase noise plot by silicon labs: http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN256.pdf Attila Kinali and one from We

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/11/12 5:54 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: Go to your local building and planning commission, and get yourself a copy of the topographical map for your address. They are cheap, and are the standard by which everyone (insurance, zoning, ...) determines your flood plane exposure. I have been infor

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/11/12 5:23 AM, swingbyte wrote: s disappointing! I need to measure the height of my house floor to be above the flood plane contour. I might have a look at some dted from work. Might have to pay a real surveyor to measure the height datum. Thanks for all the info though guys for that, yo

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Resolution SMT - good/bad/indifferent?

2012-05-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/11/12 2:38 AM, Hal Murray wrote: Why in the hell would anybody build a 50 channel receiver? At most you MIGHT see 12 usable GPS sats... I don't think that I've seen over 10. WAAS should be fairly useless for a timing receiver. I can think of a couple of reasons. I'm sure there are mo

Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear

2012-05-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/11/12 12:48 AM, MailLists wrote: Who would listen to pure sine tones? As a youth, I listened to WWV, which is a pure sine tone, in between the ticks. Drove my parents batty. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe,

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Resolution SMT - good/bad/indifferent?

2012-05-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/11/12 4:34 AM, shali...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I moved them yesterday Didier KO4BB --Original Message-- From: Mark Sims Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com To: Time-Nuts ReplyTo: Time-Nuts Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble Resolution SMT - good/bad/indifferent? Sent: May 10, 2012 11:02 PM

Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Heinzmann, Stefan (ALC NetworX GmbH) wrote: Benjamin and Gannon, the first reference in Ashihara's paper, come to lower figures for sinusoidal jitter with carefully selected frequencies relative to the main signal

Re: [time-nuts] Clocks for Audio gear

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 11:36 AM, Hal Murray wrote: albertson.ch...@gmail.com said: I've alway have thought that if nanosecond level jitter is "bad" then breathing while listening must be really bad. If you inhale the path length from your ear to the speaker changes at the microsecond level. You'd think

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 10:46 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: "mean sea level" is not meaningful any more. What shape is the ocean and what if you live in Kanas? How to extrapolate the ocean level to Kanas? The answer is to use a model of some kind mean sea level, these days, is a name for a particular hei

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 9:33 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2012 17:01:48 +0200 b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2012 22:50:15 +1000 swingbyte wrote: Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abi

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo accuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 9:18 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Bob Camp wrote: . Hi all, Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities extend to its precision in position output? I ha

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 9:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: There is an error in your quoted text. The author must have though there was a difference between WGS84 and "true sea level". No that is not true. If you paper map that you bought from US Gological Survey says "WGS84" on it then THAT is the definit

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 7:40 AM, Arthur Dent wrote: I've found significant altitude errors using a GPS and the following quotes found on the internet will explain why. From my experience of hiking in the mountains of New Hampshire an aneroid altimeter will vary with atmospheric pressure about 200 feet for a c

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 6:42 AM, mike cook wrote: A man with only one GPS Surveys from different receivers I have. All taken at the same height from prolonged surveys. WGS84 datum. Oncore UT+ A 207,62m Oncore UT+ B 209,24m Z3801A 180,72m Oncore VP A 229,95m TBolt 207.00m That's a pretty big vari

Re: [time-nuts] question about Thunderbolt geo acuracy

2012-05-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/10/12 6:08 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 05/10/2012 02:50 PM, swingbyte wrote: Hi all, Hope this isn't too chat roomy, however, I have need of a survey precise geolocation type gps. I was wondering if the precise timing abilities extend to its precision in position output? I have a thunder

[time-nuts] helibowl GPS antennas

2012-05-09 Thread Jim Lux
So, I've looked at several dozen helibowls and talked to makers of said items.. There is no published design, per se. The instructions, as I was told, are "go and buy a cheap mixing bowl" The ones I saw used things like plastic cups as a form, on which a wire or piece of copper tape was spira

Re: [time-nuts] Faster than light of a different type

2012-05-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/9/12 10:04 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Wed, 09 May 2012 18:11:22 -0700 Jim Lux wrote: I'm not so sure about that, in general. (the access to the public, not the tax funding).. A lot of universities have put badge readers on a lot of areas that one might think are totally public a

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