Sorry for the confusion. It was just that I had been speaking of the Spirit and Spirit baptism when you came into the discussion and asked if I had been born again. I had not realized that your interruption also represented a complete change of subject matter.
I was "born again" on Dec. 27,
So Judy has her illumination and the rest of minions have only biblical context. The fact of the matter is this: the only ones in the room when Christ spoke these words were the 11, as Perry has pointed out. The conclusion should be obvious. Thank God none of us have to right to be saved !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:00:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Huh? I can't pray for what I don't understand because my prayer tongue is English?? !!
The idea JD is that it is an exercise in faith because we
I refer you to Eph 5:18-19.Exegetical note: Spirit filling and Spirit baptism are the same experience. As Linda has pointed out, Spirit baptism and "new birth" are not the same experience. The apostles very own baptism in the Spirit was not accompanied by the laying on of hands. Cornelius and his
Linda:I do recollect your mention of an RCC family
connection but, I'd be most interest in your demonstration (biblically) that the
RCC is the 'whore of revelation'. What with Kevin, Dean, Charles, David, Judy
and, yourself ONLY being against things, it is rather difficult to take much of
I appeal to Terry to re-introduce himself into the
conversation.I just said so and, will do so again. Why would you, David,
Judy, Kevin and Dean (not Charles on this one) actually challenge the
genuineness of John's 'Sonship'? Is this supposed to be
funny?
- Original Message -
H!
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 21, 2005 19:31
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Illumination/Interpretation - Who Decides
Lance is trying to
escape what The Word says on the subject, and he
Hs!
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 21, 2005 19:28
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: interesting
book
Judy, please try to
refrain from correcting Lances opinion with the truth of Gods
Are you quite sure that YOU are born again,
Iz?
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 21, 2005 19:44
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Cross
The RCC is the great
whore of Revelations. I do not serve the god of
Hss!
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 21, 2005 23:21
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Back tot he
garden
Excuse me, but were
you actually under the impression that your opinion matters to
LEGALISM indeed, Gary.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 21, 2005 21:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back tot he
garden
Iz, Here's a
suggestion. Sometime this Christmas season, try putting this sauce on
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: December 21, 2005 23:04
Subject: Quote I liked
John Frye: (http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com/)
All theological statements carry the marks of fallenness and finitude.
--
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: December 21, 2005 23:11
Subject: More from Fyre
To say that our theological statements carry the contamination of human
fallenness and finitude does not mean that we can’t say true
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan
Hughes
To: Lance Muir
Sent: December 21, 2005 23:28
Subject: Witherington on Anne Rice's Book
Anne Rice's Christ the Lord
Christ the Lord--- Out of Egypt, Anne Rice (N.Y.: Knopf, 2005)Anne
Rice has, by now become something of a household name
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/22/2005 6:11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Saturday Sabbath
Iz:You have a most caustic and inflammatory 'spirit' . No kiddin! I wouldn't employ the cat imagery when speaking of you ON OCCASION. You
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/21/2005 7:14:17 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] sweat
Congratulations, Blaine. So you are not the first to be wrong. iz
cd: Yes amen-Truth is having her perfect way Blain.
From: [EMAIL
We don't appeal to logic to understand God's Word JD;
but then I shouldn't be surprised since you are so
intoGreek issues ... Everything spoken of
in Mark 16:14-18 is spoken of elsewhere. jt
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:55:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Linda, you might try reading Mark
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/21/2005 8:35:59 PM
Subject: Fwd: [TruthTalk] sweat
I am always happy to publish the great truths of Mormonism on TT or anywhere. :)
Blainerb
cd: Then please tell us of this Pay-Lay-Ale ceremony?
In a message
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:00:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:Huh? I can't pray for what I don't understand because my
prayer tongue is English?? !!
The idea JD is that it is an exercise in faith
because we don't know how to pray as we should so the Spiritintercedes
for us
If you really believe what you just wrote Lance then
your last few hissing responses would hardly have smoothed her fur
now would they? She is being blunt rather than
ugly and even so is a lot more pleasant to read and easier on the
eyes
than Gary. How is it you don't ever take offense at
JD; put the Greek aside for a moment and take a deep
breath then read the verses
below. Yes the eleven were who Jesus was speaking
to at the time but he knew
when he spokethat they alone would not encompass
"all the world" - The antecedent
to the word HE below is the
one who had heard what
Why then the H? When part of the family
(RCC) is spoken of by TTers, I genuinely take offence on their behalf. I most
assuredly find some of what they believe to be without Biblical foundation but,
THEY ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST.
- Original Message -
From:
Perry, I appreciate you bringing up a specific consideration about this
passage. I'm rather surprised by your line of reasoning.
The antecedent of HE is all creatures, not exclusively the apostles.
Let's examine a more full context for this passage.
Mark 16:14-20
(14) Afterward he appeared
David Miller wrote:
3. John 14:12
(12) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth
on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and
greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
This passage in John indicates that faith results in
miraculous works on the part of
Well, David, in the short of it, if I have to beleive the Holy Spirit, or
you, I choose the Holy Spirit.
This whole address is to the eleven...the signs are to the eleven, not every
creature. This is confirmed in v20: And they went forth, and preached every
where, the Lord working with
them,
In fact, you appeal to your brand of reason in your posts much more often than you do scripture.Your response , below, is typical judyLogic. You are an avid anti-intellectual who, as a Bible "student," even rejects the witness of the Greek text. In regards to Mk 16:14-18, you make reference once
David:Does the WE (as to the 'greater works') include YOU? I will accept as
utterly truthful the examples from your own life that you choose to include
as illustrations.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22,
Christ does not reference "encompassing" the world. He simply and profoundly sent them into that world. Most of them were lost to any serious historical evaluation. Really, when you think about the lives of the "12," it is very thought provoking. Mark 16 does not bind God to any consideration
My point is this: my level of confidence is as great or greater than yours at any time and on any biblical issue . You might take your own advice to heart. Your problem is this -- your theology has no answer for my stated belief nor does it have room for the same degree of confidence as you from
JD wrote:
Exegetical note: Spirit filling and Spirit baptism are
the same experience.
Sometimes Spirit filling might refer to Spirit baptism, but not always.
Following are some examples where people were filled with the Holy Spirit,
but this was not the same as the Acts 2 experience of
myth (tantamount,
perhaps intrinsic, toslade's'chair of Moses'where sitting
makes ppllike Izzydizzy..like their pappy's office chair rollin' on
wheels of firea stones throw fromthe Throne,at the right hand
of Yah..yeh, baby!)
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:24:58 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL
Perry, amen about always believing the Holy Spirit over me, but the Holy
Spirit will not contradict himself or his Word. Therefore, if
contradictions exist, then you have not heard from the Holy Spirit, agreed?
Let's look at the passage again.
Mark 16:14-20
(14) Afterward he appeared unto the
I've come to see that you, in a manner similar to Judy, do not see how you
are perceived. Also, one more time IMO, you do not see yourself well at all.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 11:19
Subject: Re:
OR, OR, OR, DAVID YOU, YOU, YOU HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE SPIRIT! As Iz would
say...Duh
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 11:07
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Perry, amen about always believing the
Perry:This is really quite simple! It must align itself with David Miller's
'illumined' understanding.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 12:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
From: David
David,
Comments embedded below.
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry, amen about always believing the Holy Spirit over me, but the Holy
Spirit will not contradict himself or his Word. Therefore, if
contradictions exist, then you have not heard from the Holy Spirit, agreed?
First,
Lance wrote:
... OR, OR, OR, DAVID YOU, YOU, YOU
HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE SPIRIT!
As Iz would say...Duh
Duh is right. Nothing the Spirit would reveal to me would contradict
Scripture.
Surely you understand that not everything I share on has been revealed to me
by the Spirit, right? Surely
IMO, David, MOST of that which you share on TT has not been revealed by the
Spirit.
L
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 13:10
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Lance wrote:
... OR, OR, OR, DAVID
Perry wrote:
Now, my question to you...how do
I determine if it was the Holy Spirit
giving me the understanding, or if it
was all in my head?
If you have to ask, then I suspect it was all just in your head. The
Scriptures say that my sheep know my voice. Nevertheless, sometimes the
Spirit
L wrote:
IMO, David, MOST of that which you share
on TT has not been revealed by the Spirit.
As Izzy and Lance would say: Duh. :-)
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.
David wrote:
Jesus is speaking to the eleven. We agree on this. Verses 16-18 use
pronouns such as he, they, and them. All of these pronouns in these verses
refer to the creatures to whom they preach. We know this because the
context of his message to the eleven is preaching the gospel to every
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't know if you understand what I am saying, but if you believe that
the
signs also apply to people other than these eleven, why try and make the
argument that this particular text does not? Perhaps if you do read it
this
way, you would be arguing
David wrote:
Jesus is speaking to the eleven. We agree on this. Verses 16-18 use
pronouns such as he, they, and them. All of these pronouns in these
verses
refer to the creatures to whom they preach. We know this because the
context of his message to the eleven is preaching the gospel to
Perry wrote:
If we make the error of thinking that this text
applies, in this instance and usage, to other
Christians than the 11, even though elsewhere
some of these signs may be discussed relative
to other Christians, then we risk making the
same error anytime Jesus talks makes a
Perry wrote:
I beleive the verse about preaching to all creatures
to be parenthetical to the rest of the passage, telling
the apostles their commission, but not changing the
subject of his address, namely those whom he had
just upbraided for thier unbelief.
The verses leading up to and
I don't know fer sure just who is right and who is all wet, but since no
one that I know of has been healed by my shadow, I ain't about to drink
any poison.
Terry
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry wrote:
BTW, Izzy, the Holy Spirit revealed this
Practicalities should have no place here on TT.
-- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know fer sure just who is right and who is all wet, but since no one that I know of has been healed by my shadow, I ain't about to drink any poison.
Comments below:
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry wrote:
I beleive the verse about preaching to all creatures to be parenthetical
to the rest of the passage, telling the apostles their commission, but not
changing the subject of his address, namely those whom he had just
David, you recently posted this comment.
There is a distinction between revelation and Biblical interpretation. This is the source of your disagreement with Judy, not believing that God reveals to her knowledge through the Spirit. You even delineate different types of revelation, so how can you
David writes:
The way I see it, no matter how hard someone tries to have faith in a lie, with the kind of faith that Jesus is talking about in the passages above, he cannot do it. No matter how hard he tries, there will always be some reservation in his spirit. On the other hand, when we
DAVEH: Note to Fellow TTers: Perry is allowing me to return to TT
without restriction. Due to my recent rather harsh treatment of him as
he performed his Moderator duties, I owe him an apology for showing less
than the respect he deserved as our Moderator, and to you TTers as well
for my
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