__
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: Nelson, Jocelyn nels...@ecu.edu
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 2:28:39 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Virgil, Vergil, the usefulness of etymology
Nice stuff, Stuart! I'm impressed with how the music sounds like it's
coming from two different instruments. An exaggeration maybe, but only
a slight exaggeration. The tunes themselves are different in nature,
but the treatment really makes a huge difference. Both treatments are
Thanks for these. Glad you are back with the 5-course guitar. Didn't
recognise any of the pieces. The pieces with the bordon on the thumb side
sounded as if you didn't have high octave strings. Are Kremberg pieces
arrangements of the song accompaniments in his collection of sacred songs?
Grove 1980 vol 15:71 speaks of English usage.
As a non-English speaker I see different options:
- Usage in England
- In the English language, not limited only to places where English is
spoken.
I am not quite sure what point you are making here. English usage refers
to all places where
2011/2/10 Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk:
Just as a matter of interest I looked these terms up in a Dutch
Dictionary.
Interesting Dutch dictionary you have, that uses German for some of
its definitions. ;-)
Are they not to some extent interchangeable? For example we use terms like
On 11 February 2011 14:18, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
Interesting Dutch dictionary you have, that uses German for some of
its definitions. ;-)
Are they not to some extent interchangeable?
Auch, that hurt!
I suppose it was the inimitable Oscar Wilde who said something to the
I take your point - although it was an internet site that purported to be of
Dutch/English dictionaries and the terms I put in were taken from another
Dutch/English dictionary site - so they must be the same in German. I'll
try again.
Are they not to some extent interchangeable?
Auch,
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of David van Ooijen
Sent: 11 February 2011 14:55
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Polyphony/Counterpoint
On 11 February 2011 14:18, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
Interesting Dutch dictionary you have, that uses German for some of
its
That's an interesting summary and very generous of you to say that you find
Lex's and my discussion important as I often feel I am wasting everyone's
time and getting very cross in the process. The etymology of the term
motet is a fascinating topic in its own right. But we had better not
. Braig IV brai...@osu.edu
To: 'Vihuelalist' vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:14 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
I am a dabbler in early strings. I don't ever intend to be anything but.
However, I am a fan of scholarship
Thank you - I hope we can all settle with this definition. But,
trying to bring back this discussion to it's starting point, doesn't
this mean that Lex' use of the term (the polyphonic nature of
Bartolotti's music) wasn't nearly as unapropriate as Monica claimed?
But maybe as a non-native
Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:15 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Polyphony and counterpoint
Thank you - I hope we can all settle with this definition. But,
trying to bring back this discussion
, February 10, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Polyphony and counterpoint
The terms are quite interchangeable in other languages, and according to
Wikipedia
polyphony tends to desribe PRE-BAROQUE music, and counterpoint tends to
describe POST-RENAISSANCE one.
Which would make Bartolotti
[mailto:a-mah...@bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:39 AM
To: 'Vihuelalist'; Eugene C. Braig IV
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
Dear Eugene,
This is my first post to the list. I was amazed to hear that you are a
biologist in your day
Hi,
I really love this list, but when it comes to exchanges between Monica
and Lex, as it happens time and again on whatever issues, it seems to
me that I have to watch war-movies rather than a discussion between
people who love their subject and are equally happy to learn and
-
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:15 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Polyphony and counterpoint
Thank you - I hope we can all settle with this definition. But,
trying to bring back
: [VIHUELA] Re: Polyphony and counterpoint
The terms are quite interchangeable in other languages, and according to
Wikipedia
polyphony tends to desribe PRE-BAROQUE music, and counterpoint tends to
describe POST-RENAISSANCE one.
Which would make Bartolotti firmly contrapunctal, wouldnit?
Yes
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:31:03 -, Monica Hall wrote
Just as a matter of interest I looked these terms up in a Dutch
Dictionary. The only difference seems to be that in the Netherlands
the Age of Polyphony lasts longer.
??? Where do you read this? In the first quote (from South-West
Grove 1980 vol 15:71 speaks of English usage.
As a non-English speaker I see different options:
- Usage in England
- In the English language, not limited only to places where English is
spoken.
From the context I understand that the first option is intended.
Could anyone with better skills
Like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland you think that you can use
words to mean what you say they mean, not what other people think they
mean. Bartolotti's music is to some extent contrapuntal but not
consistently so. When we analyse it we analyse the counterpoint not the
polyphony.
Why
Why make it more complicated than it is? Bartolotti wrote polyphonic
music.
It is inaccurate and misleading to refer to it in this way. As I have
already said Bartolotti's music is to some extent contrapuntal but not
consistently so.
Some works (a number of gigues) are consistently
I have tried to explain that although the terms
counterpoint/contrapuntal, polyphony/polyphonic are to some extent
synonymous, in common usage polyphony has more specific connotations.
It is used to refer to music from before approximately 1600 which is in
several separate, continuous,
What I have said is that it is polyphony that has a narrower specific
meaning, not counterpoint. It is better to use the term counterpoint
because it refers to part writing in a much wider context.
In the historical survey of the term polyphony, in my paper 1980 Grove
(page71) it reads that
In the historical survey of the term polyphony, in my paper 1980 Grove
(page71) it reads that 'in English usage 'polyphony' tends to be used 'for
early music', while 'for later periods (16th to 18th century' the term
'counterpoint' is preferred...
That is what I have been trying to say over
counterpoint, but it doesn't have to.
Best wishes,
Stewart.
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Lex Eisenhardt
Sent: 09 February 2011 18:00
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
What I
On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:33:21 -, Stewart McCoy wrote
Dear Lex,
It is true that some people may use the words polyphony and
counterpoint interchangeably, but if there has to be a distinction
between the two words, one should consider their etymology.
Why? How can the etymology of a term
Dear Roman, Stewart, Ralf, and List,
After slaving away at teaching music history students and working in
tandem with my theory/composition colleagues for around a decade, I'd
like to say that all the texts and articles I've used in English (I'm
currently using the
On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 17:06:37 -0500, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote
Dear Roman, Stewart, Ralf, and List,
Dear Jocelyn,
After slaving away at teaching music history students and working
in tandem with my theory/composition colleagues for around a
decade, I'd like to say that all the texts and
Stuart Walsh wrote:
what do you mean by elaborate treble dominated style? Is it this: a
predominantly melodic line interspersed with occasional chords? Which
composers are you thinking of?
The small amount of fancier music for the English guitar/guittar in the
18th century actually,
not taking sides here. I'm just relating my
experience.
__
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 4:09:08 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re
--- On Mon, 7/2/11, Stuart Walsh [1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh [2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
To: Monica Hall [3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist [4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Monday
Martyn
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
To: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com, Martyn Hodgson
hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu, Monica Hall
mjlh
, it's a different perspective. That's all.
__
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 5:30:03 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque
or two of melodic flow, I'd say 90% or so is basic
two-part (i.e.utterly typical guitar) writing.
Stuart
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Stuart Walshs.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
From: Stuart Walshs.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
; Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
Thank you Lex,
However I believe you might have missed the point I was trying to make:
these collections are so full of this melodic punctuated
) bass as short
harmonic reminder - if you see what I mean. In short, not so very
different from your 'English' guittar
rgds
Martyn
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing
Actually, I don't feel like starting this over again. If anyone is
interested, my ideas on the dominance of the bourdon tuning in Italy can
be read in the article in 'The Lute' 47.
The problem with your article is that much of it is little more than
speculation unsupported by any real
one.
Monica
--- On Tue, 8/2/11, Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu, Monica Hall
Actually, I don't feel like starting this over again. If anyone is
interested, my ideas on the dominance of the bourdon tuning in Italy can
be read in the article in 'The Lute' 47.
The problem with your article is that much of it is little more than
speculation unsupported by any real
Bartolotti's music is not polyphonic. I suggest you read the whole of
the entry in Grove and the entry for counterpoint and familiarize yourself
with the correct terminology.
The concise Oxford dictionary defines polyphony as ...
Music in which several simultaneous instrumental or vocal
The concise Oxford dictionary defines polyphony as ...
Music in which several simultaneous instrumental or vocal parts are
combined contrapuntally etc...
I hope you don't mind me to hold on to Grove Music Online for the moment.
Like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland you think that you can
Any explanation of this particular odd chart would probably have to rest
on
mere speculation.
Like the rest of the charts.
Monica
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
I am a dabbler in early strings. I don't ever intend to be anything but.
However, I am a fan of scholarship (a biologist on the day job) and this
extends to my appreciation of music. I watch this bourdon-vs.-not debate
periodically because both sides tend to have insight that I appreciate. I
@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: The stringing of the baroque guitar - again
I am a dabbler in early strings. I don't ever intend to be anything but.
However, I am a fan of scholarship (a biologist on the day job) and this
extends to my appreciation
Like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland you think that you can use
words to mean what you say they mean, not what other people think they
mean. Bartolotti's music is to some extent contrapuntal but not
consistently so. When we analyse it we analyse the counterpoint not the
polyphony.
mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Sunday, 6 February, 2011, 16:41
Incidentally, earlier in this discussion I asked if there was any
early
source which
of a guitar fingerboard with the
the basses clearly not on the thumb side - and it's somewhere on the
early guitar ning site.
Stuart
--- On Sun, 6/2/11, Monica Hallmjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
From: Monica Hallmjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
if double) had the high octave on the inside
(like a lute in fact sometimes actually called 'demi-luth')
Martyn
.
--- On Mon, 7/2/11, Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
To: Martyn Hodgson
07, 2011 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
I was speaking only of French practice, but you may be right - I'll look
at Ning
The French books which I have facsimiles are:
Merchi 1761 - stringing in staff notation seems to show doubled basses -
both low octaves. BUT in discussing
This illustration is originally from the article by Rousseau in Diderot's
Dictionary which apparently it was re-printed.
However - if my notes are correct, Corrette does include a similar
illustration.
There has never been a facsimile of this but there is a copy in the British
Library
Did I mention Scaramouche (in relation to any topic) here?
Not specifically - but if I remember rightly you have referred people to
your article(s) in earlier discussions. And if anyone wants me to clarify
anything I have said in mine they are welcome to ask.
I feel this needs a bit of
] On
Behalf Of Monica Hall
Sent: 07 February 2011 13:53
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar octaves shown out
This illustration is originally from the article by Rousseau in
Diderot's
Dictionary which apparently it was re-printed.
However - if my
I fear that what I have may be incomplete, because I can see no picture
of a guitar showing the placing of high and low octave strings, and I
can find no mention of de Visée. All the strings of the guitar seem to
be of the same thickness.
The entry in the standard version of Diderot's
to the Hebrew and Latin I believe..
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Monica Hall
Sent: 07 February 2011 13:53
To: Martyn Hodgson
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar octaves shown out
This illustration is originally from
PS
Why not standardize on the spelling of standardize?
Great idea!
Monica
PS for Monica: Please could you distinguish between Stewart McCoy
(me)
and Stuart Walsh. You have been writing to me as Stuart, and
referring
to Stuart as Stewart. I really don't mind
What you believe and what we know are two different things. We are not
discussing religion here.
Most theories are based on interpretation of historical data. If enough
people believe in a theory, it apparently has a certain credibility. Many
people today seem to adhere to a doctrine of
-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Monica Hall
Sent: 05 February 2011 12:49
To: Lex Eisenhardt
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint
I was not thinking of the type of strummed 3-part writing in closely
spaced chords.
The problem is the randomness. Some parts
The other reason for the disposition of the pair, and one which I think
is more significant, is that the string struck first with the thumb
tends to predominate. So that on the lute, where a more procrustean
adherence to the rules of counterpoint/voice leading might have been
expected, it is
eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint
To: Vihuela List vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Sunday, 6 February, 2011, 9:16
The other reason for the disposition of the pair, and one which I
think
You have no evidence that that was what they did. What they don't say in
their books you just think you can make up! Rafael Andia on his recording
of de Visee's music has the bordon on the thumb side and this doesn't seem
to have an appreciable effect on the music.
You have a very
On 06/02/2011 09:26, Monica Hall wrote:
Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on
the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on
the music.
How interesting! I thought there was a sort of 'universal assent' (of
our times) on this - the
I just posted some recordings, and thankfully I did so before reading
this:
I have no problem with the pavanas played without bourdons. Try
listening
to Gordon Ferries - or Chris on this list perhaps has recorded it.
Just
bear in mind
that the opening phrase will be
; [3]Stewart McCoy
Cc: [4]Vihuelalist
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?
I just posted some recordings, and thankfully I did so before reading
this:
I have no problem with the pavanas played without bourdons. Try
listening
You have a very interesting point here.
By saying that they probably had reverse stringing I referred to what is
generally assumed today. A theory about stringing/tuning should inevitably
be based on inference as well as evidence.
I agree with that in principle but I think we should be careful
Rafael Andia on his recording of de Visee's music has the bordon on
the thumb side and this doesn't seem to have an appreciable effect on
the music.
How interesting! I thought there was a sort of 'universal assent' (of
our times) on this - the 'French tuning' for De Visee. Was there a
Incidentally, earlier in this discussion I asked if there was any early
source which mentioned selective plucking of individual strings of an
octave pair - no response so far.
No - the only source which mentions it is Corrette in -can't remember the
exact date - 1760 or there abouts. I
__
From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:41:41 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
Not surprisingly, Sanz indicates trills or mordents for the two
lower courses in the first two books:
Also, in his Regla quarta del trino Sanz offers this advice:
I want to give a famous rule so that you know where a trill sounds
good, and you can always do it even though it is
Excellent work by both of you.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: [1]Peter Kooiman
To: [2]Chris Despopoulos
Cc: [3]Vihuelalist ; [4]Monica Hall ; [5]Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Ambiguity
As a matter of interest have you discovered a source of reference that
describes how Scaramouche strung his guitar? If you haven't in what way
is the fact that he was in Paris relevant to this topic?
Did I mention Scaramouche (in relation to any topic) here?
I feel this needs a bit of
On 5 February 2011 09:26, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
to him on the guitar (with bordons) he was unable to hear any of the 6/4
chords. If he can't hear them I doubt whether most other people can.
On the other hand, some people are _extremely_ sensitive to
inversions. I have to
On 5 February 2011 09:26, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
to him on the guitar (with bordons) he was unable to hear any of the 6/4
chords. If he can't hear them I doubt whether most other people can.
On the other hand, some people are _extremely_ sensitive to
inversions. I have to
It is not completely pointless to randomly invert the parts and the music
work perfectly well if you do. In practice some of Foscarini's 3-part
writing actually works better in that way e.g. the passage in the toccata
on p.105 which starts in the middle of the seventh line down.
I was not
I was not thinking of the type of strummed 3-part writing in closely
spaced chords.
The problem is the randomness. Some parts of the bass will be above the
treble and others will not.
The point which you consistently ignore is that the bass will always be
above the treble as you like to put it
The point which you consistently ignore is that the bass will always be
above the treble as you like to put it because the high octave strings on
the 4th and 5th courses overlap with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
I don't ignore the point, but, as David says, lutenists tend to ignore the
high octaves.
On 5 February 2011 10:40, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
Presumably this composer is still alive and has different sensibilities from
17th century guitarists.
Indeed, it is safe to assume dead composers will have different
sensibilities than the ones that have not yet reached that
I don't ignore the point, but, as David says, lutenists tend to ignore the
high octaves. We have discussed this more than once and I am aware that
you, not having the experience of playing the lute, are distracted by the
high octave strings ringing above the other parts.
How do you know I have
Indeed, it is safe to assume dead composers will have different
sensibilities than the ones that have not yet reached that crowning
stage in their careers.
David - alive, last time I checked
Long may you remain so.
Monica
--
***
David van Ooijen
-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf Of Monica Hall
Sent: 05 February 2011 12:49
To: Lex Eisenhardt
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Invertible counterpoint
I was not thinking of the type of strummed 3-part writing in closely
spaced chords.
The problem is the randomness. Some parts of the bass will be above
What you seem to be unaware of is that the music is intabulated in a very
different way from lute music with the emphasis on the 5th course being
used as a treble string rather than a bass string - and not just in
campanellas.
Which can of course be realized with an octave strung course.
Lex has a reasonable point in suggesting that Murcia probably had a
particular tuning in mind. If we are aiming to try and recapture the
sounds these early players made and heard this surely ought to be the
focus of our search.
With regard to disjointed part writing indicating a
Do we know anything about his intensions with regard to tuning?
The answer is no. This new manuscript does include some notes explaining how
the guitar, violin, harp, tiple and bandurria can be tuned to play together,
but they are not coherant enough to work out the stringing and may not have
.
__
From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; Lex Eisenhardt
eisenha...@planet.nl
Sent: Fri, February 4, 2011 6:14:36 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?
Lex has
Yet again - re-entrant tunings have nothing to do with campanelas.
What
Sanz says is
This is the reason - when making trills, slurs and other ornaments
with the
left hand, the bourdon interferes with them because it is a thick
string
and the other is thin, and therefore
What ambiguous tone quality?
How often do you listen to other people playing this music?
Quite often. The sound of the the instrument itself is not ambiguous; I get
the impression that different players make different choices. To put it like
this, some are better at presenting the
My experience with Sanz and fully re-entrant tuning is that there are
two voices, but not necessarily divided into melody and bass. Why
can't two sopranos or tenors sing together?
The one side is what we think we hear. The other is that if music has
two or more voices, which is
?) as
the staff notation versions?
--- On Fri, 4/2/11, Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 4 February, 2011, 13:24
What ambiguous tone
Well, I was very careful to say 'which is often the case with
Foscarini, Bartolotti, Visee etc.'
We seem to agree on Visee (most of his guitar works are probably not
conceived on other instruments though) and a quick look on the many
pizzicato works of Foscarini and Bartolotti will
We seem to agree on Visee (most of his guitar works are probably not
conceived on other instruments though) and a quick look on the many
pizzicato works of Foscarini and Bartolotti will reveal that there is
true polyphony in those. Same of course with Guerau, for example.
I don't
...@crispu.com
To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:05 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?
Yet again - re-entrant tunings have nothing to do with campanelas.
What
Sanz says is
This is the reason - when making trills, slurs and other ornaments
My experience with Sanz and fully re-entrant tuning is that there are
two voices, but not necessarily divided into melody and bass. Why
can't two sopranos or tenors sing together?
Exactly. The fact that the parts cross is acceptable and anyone used to
listening to baroque guitar
I don't think there is very much polyphony in the true sense of the word
i.e.continuous 2 or 3-part writing in Foscarini or Bartolotti (or Corbetta
for that matter). And where there is it doesn't work very effectively.
I take polyphony as different of Renaissance counterpoint. As a
I was under impression is that ALL preclassical music is essentially
2-voice, and the bass line is implied even in unaccompanied melodies.
And the composing was done from bass up, not the other way around.
RT
From: Lex Eisenhardt eisenha...@planet.nl
I don't think there is very much polyphony
I take polyphony as different of Renaissance counterpoint. As a texture
consisting of two or more independent melodic voices. Even the so-called
brise type of writing (in certain works of Bartolotti and Corbetta) can be
seen as polyfonic because it is not in one (accompanied or
I was under impression is that ALL preclassical music is essentially
2-voice, and the bass line is implied even in unaccompanied melodies.
I agree that the bass part is implied even in unaccompanied melodies. That
is why it is not essential to have a bass part at all in baroque guitar
music
That is stretching the definition of counterpoint to suit your own
purposes.
Actually I spoke of polyphony. The definition in Grove Online is a bit
longer.
What matters is that the voices can be heard (and
brought out) as independent lines.
Not by you anyway!
With all the flaws it
Of Monica Hall
Sent: 04 February 2011 21:25
To: Roman Turovsky
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Where to end?
I was under impression is that ALL preclassical music is essentially
2-voice, and the bass line is implied even in unaccompanied melodies.
I agree that the bass part is implied even
Actually I spoke of polyphony. The definition in Grove Online is a bit
longer.
Actually the two terms mean much the same thing - at least in England. In
fact we tend to use the term polyphony more specifically to refer to music,
particularly sacred music, of the 16th century and earlier
Hello Franz,
but some quite odd with melodylines suddenly jumping an octave up or
down. So
I suspected that these were not written for re-entrant tuning, or
only the upper string
being re-entrant, but to take it like this seems also not convincing
either.
I find that
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