Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

"So, either the meter reading was anomalously high and the heat was much lower than a megawatt," There was no requirement for the power produced to be a megawatt in the licence agreement. A system producing 750 KW is acceptable to meet daily payment. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:36 AM, Stephen A.

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

You appear to be missing the point here. It amazes me that you seem to believe that gas phase LENR is possible but for some reason are certain that Rossi does not see any extra heat generation. I would conclude that gas phase LENR is likely not possible what so ever if Rossi's system does

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

:-)OK. I'll stop bugging you about it. On 08/09/2016 01:32 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I think that's interesting. It may even help future scammers and I am not ashamed of this possibility. 2016-08-09 2:22 GMT-03:00 Stephen A. Lawrence >: t it

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I think that's interesting. It may even help future scammers and I am not ashamed of this possibility. 2016-08-09 2:22 GMT-03:00 Stephen A. Lawrence : > t it will lead to a better understanding of how one scammer operated. > > >

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

In your discussion with Daniel, the exchange went something like this: *You said:* OK, interesting concept. I was thinking along the lines of how a heat pump operates. It consists of a closed system with a pump(compressor) and a strong restriction to the flowing fluid as well as heat

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

You fail to understand. I am seeking a reasonable explanation for the error in the flow rate that Jed is assuming. That is the scientific way to explain his belief without just plain guessing. For some reason you think that I believe that Rossi is actually generating the 1 MW of heat without

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

You don't seem to get it. Rossi has been shown to be lying and fabricating results. ROSSI. ROSSI is not to be believed. His "experiments" are consequently worthless, because the basic assumption of good faith, on which all conventional analysis of experiments ultimately rests, is gone.

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

As I stated, I have many concerns about his system. On the other hand, I have a much more positive belief that some form of nickel, hydrogen, lithium gas system might generate additional heat. As long as that possibility exists within my mind I fail to see how Rossi's experiment would be

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

If I understand this discussion, you appear to be engaging in massive doublethink here. You're trying to explain a bogus reading of the meter while /assuming/ that the system was actually producing 1 MW of heat. If it was generating 1 MW then the meter reading was presumably /correct/, and

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

OK, interesting concept. I was thinking along the lines of how a heat pump operates. It consists of a closed system with a pump(compressor) and a strong restriction to the flowing fluid as well as heat exchangers. A low pressure return pipe carries the active fluid in vapor form to the pump.

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 11:39 PM, David Roberson wrote: I would hope that you could be convinced that Rossi is telling the truth if he were to present a solid scientific proof to that fact. Is that not giving him the benefit of the doubt? Can anyone be 100% confident that he is completely lying?

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I would hope that you could be convinced that Rossi is telling the truth if he were to present a solid scientific proof to that fact. Is that not giving him the benefit of the doubt? Can anyone be 100% confident that he is completely lying? As long as there is any question about the facts,

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

He was contributing in his point of view why this kind of discussion happens and you just tell him to shut up, just because you think that is not serious. LOL. 2016-08-09 0:03 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell : > > > Do you have anything to contribute? Or do you just accept this

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Daniel Rocha wrote: LOL. Wow. > LOL yourself. Would you care to explain how a flow meter might register exactly 36,000 kg every day for months, without variation? Do you have anything to contribute? Or do you just accept this particular nonsense from Rossi because Rossi

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

LOL. Wow. 2016-08-08 23:32 GMT-03:00 Jed Rothwell : > suggest you shut up. > > - Jed > >

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Russ George wrote: There is no blacker hole than the hole of social media speculation and > pontification, therein lies universes filled with churlish senseless time > wasting bullshit… > You do realize, I hope, that I am looking at actual data from the experiment, from

RE: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

There is no blacker hole than the hole of social media speculation and pontification, therein lies universes filled with churlish senseless time wasting bullshit… From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 11:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re:

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I wrote: > Nope. Not possible, I think. That would require the flow to be > synchronized to the clock such that it clicks *exactly* every 40 minutes, > to the nearest second, every day for months. If it were a little late on > the last click, it would show 35,000 that day, pushing the next click

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I was thinking more of the cooling mechanism, which had to cool 1MW. The surface area is very large. In less then 3D (scale of the tubes in 1D in comparison to other), turbulence can go from small vortices to high, and when it exits to large tubes it goes from high vortices to low. Depending on

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 08:27 PM, David Roberson wrote: I suppose that Rossi may not be telling the truth as you have concluded, but I am attempting to give him _*the benefit of the doubt*_. You have got to be kidding. We have been discussing Rossi in this group for the last /_six years_./ The

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

David Roberson wrote: > And, if he actually did look at the total average flow rate throughout the > test, it might indeed read 36000 because of the meter increments. This > certainly seems convenient, but would be possible. > Nope. Not possible, I think. That would

[Vo]:Congress review in September.

Jed, Given what has happened with Rossi, is there anything to look forward to in the up and coming congressional review? Are there any big revelations? Frank Znidarsic

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Something similar to this could help with the problems of bubles as well as explaining the presence of eroding lines. http://www.canstockphoto.com/serum-1776202.html

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I agree, the pump might actually lower the pressure at its input enough to allow the water to vaporize if the flow is restricted ahead of the gauge. Dave -Original Message- From: Daniel Rocha To: John Milstone Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Not necessarily. The water, though is entering relatively cold, it has passed through regions of turbulence, so it should be carrying bubbles due cavitation of the vortices. 2016-08-08 11:06 GMT-03:00 Bob Higgins : > That problem could have been totally eliminated if

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I suppose that Rossi may not be telling the truth as you have concluded, but I am attempting to give him the benefit of the doubt. You and I both would prefer to see a gauge that is more precise than 1000 kg/day but that does appear to be be in line with an approximately 3% error that is

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Lab puppies are so adorable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBciJLONbQ harry On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > I wrote: > > >> I would say [Penon] is Rossi's lab dog. I suspect Rossi is hoping to pin >> the blame on Penon and send him to jail,

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

a.ashfield wrote: > > > The name plate for the flow meter gives the minimum flow rate for which > they guarantee extreme accuracy. It is fairly linear below that. > Where did you get that information? Someone who appears to know more about this meter than I do told me:

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

David Roberson wrote: Jed, you post Mats Levan's statement as proof for your conclusion that the > flow rate was exactly 36,000 kg/day. I just read his article and it > clearly says that this is the average rate of flow for the test period. > How do you draw the conclusion

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Yeah, and the "experts" said that Pons & Fleischmann had nothing too - and they were wrong On 8/8/2016 6:38 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: On 08/08/2016 06:25 PM, Che wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: The group got Rossi'd a

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, The name plate for the flow meter gives the minimum flow rate for which they guarantee extreme accuracy. It is fairly linear below that. As I said, the maximum error would be less than 3% and on the low side, contrary to what you wrote. Yes I think Exhibit 5 is wrong in several

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, you post Mats Levan's statement as proof for your conclusion that the flow rate was exactly 36,000 kg/day. I just read his article and it clearly says that this is the average rate of flow for the test period. How do you draw the conclusion from his article that the rate is exactly the

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 06:25 PM, Che wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence > wrote: The group got Rossi'd a couple years back and we're still gradually digging out from under. Ditto the entire LENR world, I'm afraid. I

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

a.ashfield wrote: > It is quite accurate at the flow rates used should you care to read the > specs (at worst would read 3% low) and Penon had it calibrated both before > and after the test at the flow rate and temperatures encountered. > Who told you that? It would be

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > > The group got Rossi'd a couple years back and we're still gradually > digging out from under. > > Ditto the entire LENR world, I'm afraid. > I think the issue still remains: *did* Rossi turn Nickel into copper --

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, Further to your oft repeated comments on the flow meter and references to the unsigned Exhibit 5, I have read this again and it strikes me that whoever wrote it is not an engineer. The flowmeter MWN130-80-NC. Has numbers and letters that indicate various things.130 is the max water

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 04:52 PM, Che wrote: On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence > wrote: On 08/08/2016 07:43 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: ... Missed this the first time around. Peter, you've been spouting boring, sanctimonious,

Re: [Vo]:LENR- beware of hypocrisy and idealism!

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Peter Gluck wrote: > http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-08-2016-lenr- > beware-of-hypocrisy.html > > the Rossi-IH war is on the blogosphere- multiple fronts! > > peter > > -- > Dr. Peter Gluck > Cluj, Romania >

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > On 08/08/2016 07:43 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > ... > Missed this the first time around. > > Peter, you've been spouting boring, sanctimonious, barely coherent > nonsense for weeks now, and you've descended to the

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Russ George wrote: I have no interest in participating in a ‘Kangaroo Court’ process with real > court evidence, that is the proper purview of a real judge and the formal > legal process. > By saying that, you are participating. You are using Donald Trump's favorite

RE: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I have no interest in participating in a ‘Kangaroo Court’ process with real court evidence, that is the proper purview of a real judge and the formal legal process. However if the secret information you have been referring to is something different that is another case, of course the revealed

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Russ George wrote: Just show your source and the documented evidence/data, you ask for no less > of Rossi et al. > I was asked not to reveal this up until now. You can now learn nearly everything I know by reading the documents uploaded by I.H. in the trial (especially

RE: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Just show your source and the documented evidence/data, you ask for no less of Rossi et al. No one can have any respect for your anger laden statements as being anything other than rants. From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 11:56 AM To:

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Russ George wrote: This acrimonious discussion of Rossi with the posturing pretentious claims > of ‘insider knowledge’ by one disgruntled camp follower, utterly > unsubstantiated and without any verifiable facts/data . . . > If documents filed with the court are not

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

a.ashfield wrote: There is no verifiable proof about the flow rates over time. I doubt > Penon would be stupid enough to report it constant for a year.. > That's what he wrote in all of the data I have seen. That's what Exhibit 5 says. Do you have any reason to doubt

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Bob Higgins wrote: Well, upon further investigation, I find that this flow meter has "internal > float level regulation" and is designed for measurement in horizontal or > vertical orientations. So, the issue with water level may be moot because > it appears this flow

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

a.ashfield wrote: I haven't seen the spec sheet m self, but this comment backs up what I > wrote earlier. > Where did you get the idea it would read high? From IH? > I have not discussed this with them, except very briefly. I got that idea from flow meter manuals,

[Vo]:LENR- beware of hypocrisy and idealism!

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/08/aug-08-2016-lenr-beware-of-hypocrisy.html the Rossi-IH war is on the blogosphere- multiple fronts! peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, I haven't seen the spec sheet m self, but this comment backs up what I wrote earlier. Where did you get the idea it would read high? From IH? Ged Obvious

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Bob, It is simple to locate a flow meter low enough that it is never just partly filled. I find it significant that we are not told where it was located. Also, the stories of stain levels by an electronics expert don't mean much. Jed suggested a world level stain expert had been hired...

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 12:20 PM, Russ George wrote: RE: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document This acrimonious discussion of Rossi with the posturing pretentious claims of ‘insider knowledge’ by one disgruntled camp follower, utterly unsubstantiated and without any

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Well, upon further investigation, I find that this flow meter has "internal float level regulation" and is designed for measurement in horizontal or vertical orientations. So, the issue with water level may be moot because it appears this flow meter is designed to compensate for water level (not

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

There is no verifiable proof about the flow rates over time. I doubt Penon would be stupid enough to report it constant for a year.. On 8/8/2016 12:43 PM, Jack Cole wrote: A large part of the discussion about the flow meter ignores a bigger problem. Whether the meter could possibly have

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

A large part of the discussion about the flow meter ignores a bigger problem. Whether the meter could possibly have correct measurements at that flow rate is irrelevant. The numbers are fake! 36000 kg/day even when the plant is not running. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:29 AM a.ashfield

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Bob, If the flow meter was mounted at the bottom outlet of the water tank, that presumably is outside and therefore a couple of feet lower than the plant, it would always be full On 8/8/2016 10:06 AM, Bob Higgins wrote: Jed, Do you know the orientation of the flow meter? It is only

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, What you wrote is perfectly clear. But there are some things missing that cloud the picture. 1. It seems the pressure drop across the feed pipe is not available. Eg. it could have been negative at the receiving end with the steam condensing. 2. I presume that the water level in the

RE: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

This acrimonious discussion of Rossi with the posturing pretentious claims of ‘insider knowledge’ by one disgruntled camp follower, utterly unsubstantiated and without any verifiable facts/data to say nothing of the clearly biased bile accompanying it all, is an all-time perfect example of the

RE: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

From: Jed Rothwell Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: What will you say if Rossi has a commercial 1 MW plant up and running before the trial? Good joke. Hah hah! What will you say if the sky is suddenly full of ships, and it turns out it's an alien invasion, and the only one they'll negotiate with

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

An orifice would help keep the flow tube full if the flow meter were mounted horizontally, but would create undesirable back pressure due to its flow resistance. The orifice could be just a gate valve that could be adjusted partly shut to provide flow resistance as needed to keep the pipe full at

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

The flow meter from that URL has nothing to do with heat measurement - it is a standard turbine type flow meter. It has a mechanical (gear ratio) calculation of flow from the rotor speed. What I said still applys - it measures essentially the same water speed whether the flow tube is half full

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I wrote: > I would say [Penon] is Rossi's lab dog. I suspect Rossi is hoping to pin > the blame on Penon and send him to jail, instead of going himself. > I mean "lap dog." My voice input program, having once got that wrong, continues to get it wrong. I guess I talk about labs more often than

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Another question is whether there was a feed water pump that would maintain a constant pressure on the flow meter and a full meter no matter what the orientation. I would think such a system would require a constant flow and heat transfer coeff. for the heat exchangers to maintain stability.

Re: [Vo]:There is nothing more I can present to convince Peter Gluck

Peter Gluck wrote: > why do you come with cheap tricks and do not give a simple straight > honest answer? As July 6- 23, 2015 for example. Why do myou mix in other > things? > I did not reveal the details before because I agreed not to. I told you that. Now you have the

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Bob Higgins wrote: What I meant is that the flow axis (also the turbine propeller axis) should > be vertical to insure that the flow tube (housing the turbine) is fully > filled. > > I believe such turbines have a rotor (like a propeller) with an axis > coaxial with the

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Peter Gluck wrote: do you believe he has the ERV extract indeed? > You have no reason to doubt it! Actually, everyone now has that extract, from what Rossi told Lewan, and from Exhibit 5. If you don't believe Rossi or Exhibit 5, I have no means to convince you. I have no

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

What I meant is that the flow axis (also the turbine propeller axis) should be vertical to insure that the flow tube (housing the turbine) is fully filled. I believe such turbines have a rotor (like a propeller) with an axis coaxial with the flow tube and low blockage spider supports for the

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > On 08/08/2016 09:30 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > If you assume there was actually some pressure, then there was only hot > water, not steam, where the temperature went from 60°C to 100°C. > > > I feel like this is where I came in. > > Years ago, in

Re: [Vo]:There is nothing more I can present to convince Peter Gluck

why do you come with cheap tricks and do not give a simple straight honest answer? As July 6- 23, 2015 for example. Why do myou mix in other things? you could easily guess that I have already seen the exhibits, no 5 included. the data could not be the "same" for the whole year, I bet. peter

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Bob Higgins wrote: > Do you know the orientation of the flow meter? It is only possible to > have a pipe half full if the flow meter is mounted horizontally (a mistake > for use of this type of flow meter). > Umm . . . I don't follow what you mean. Do you mean the

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 09:30 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: If you assume there was actually some pressure, then there was only hot water, not steam, where the temperature went from 60°C to 100°C. I feel like this is where I came in. Years ago, in early ecat tests, Rossi had a *fixed* flow rate of water

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

do you believe he has the ERV extract indeed? Then why he does not gives any dta about what he has? As regarding insults I will not go down to your level. peter On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > > On 08/08/2016 07:43 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > > Jed,

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I wrote: > Let me assume the pressure was a little higher than 1 atm. That means the > fluid was pressurized and it was probably not steam. It was probably hot > water. > Actually, a more realistic estimate would be that it is a mixture of hot water and steam. So the flow meter error would be

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 07:43 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: Jed, how much of Rossi's data do you have? Days; weeks? How do you got them? *How would you convince us that you have them indeed*? That's obnoxious. You're outright accusing Jed of lying here. I've been hanging around here for a long time, I've

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, Do you know the orientation of the flow meter? It is only possible to have a pipe half full if the flow meter is mounted horizontally (a mistake for use of this type of flow meter). That problem could have been totally eliminated if the flow meter were oriented vertically. An observation

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

On 08/08/2016 07:43 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: Jed, how much of Rossi's data do you have? Days; weeks? How do you got them? How would you convince us that you have them indeed? I confess that after what you have told about knowledgeable people being those who know to cheat with an instrument I

[Vo]:There is nothing more I can present to convince Peter Gluck

Peter Gluck wrote: Jed, how much of Rossi's data do you have? > Days; weeks? > Exhibit 5 says the data is the same for all days and weeks, so you only need a week or so to draw conclusions. Actually, one day is enough. The flow rate is exactly 36,000 kg, the pressure is

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 12:42 PM, a.ashfield > wrote: > >> What will you say if Rossi has a commercial 1 MW plant up and running >> before the trial? > > > Good joke. Hah hah! > > What will you sat if the the sky is suddenly

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

I wrote: > Look at Exhibit 5, and also look at what Rossi told Lewan. The temperature > is just over 100°C and the flow rate is 36,000 kg per day. The pressure is > 0 bar. It is the same every day, including days when the reactor was shut > down, according to Exhibit 5. > > If you assume there

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

a.ashfield wrote: > Who provided you with Rossi's log book and data that you say you have? > By "log book" I mean the ERV data. It is same thing. Rossi collects data manually as far as I know. People who visited him saw only log books. The flow meter and other

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, Who provided you with Rossi's log book and data that you say you have? " why didn't he present his side of the story in the lawsuit? " According to the contract all that is needed is Dr. Penon's report. On 8/7/2016 10:55 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: a.ashfield

Re: [Vo]:Problems with Rossi's flow meter described in court document

Jed, how much of Rossi's data do you have? Days; weeks? How do you got them? How would you convince us that you have them indeed? I confess that after what you have told about knowledgeable people being those who know to cheat with an instrument I cannot belive anything you say without proofs.