[Vo]:Ecat

[Chris Zell]

Forgive me if this was covered in this lengthy saga but I recall wondering 
about past photos of a tube reactor glowing red and yellow.

At the time, I recall some discussion about the gauge of the wire being 
insufficient to account for the heat emitted.  Of course, in the Photoshop Era 
such images may mean little unless
Accompanied by witnesses - which I thought was the case in that instance.  
Unless a H2 flame can be asserted, it seemed a mystery.

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Patrick Ellul]

There toy have it:

Andrea Rossi

March 26, 2016 at 8:42 AM

Patrick Ellul:
Australia is a Territory controlled directly by Leonardo Corporation. We
bought back the commercial licence from the former Licensee.
The contact for Australia is:
i...@leonardocorp1996.com
Warm Regards,
A.R.
On 26 Mar 2016 12:16 pm, "Jed Rothwell"  wrote:

> Daniel Rocha  wrote:
>
> Jed, I don't see any sense in what you write. Alright, it has a US
>> address. So what?
>>
>
> I am saying I do not know where this company is located. There is no
> indication on the web site. No phone number or address at all. A Whois
> inquiry for ecat.tech finds nothing -- which is strange!
>
> The only address or contact anywhere is for Mr. Green, including his U.S.
> address. If he and ecat.tech are in the U.S., this would be under U.S.
> jurisdiction.
>
>
>
>> BTW,  right now, I don't take Rossi or any of these guys saying they are
>> ready to release seriously. I think, deep down, I never had taken. It feels
>> like reading an online RPG being played.
>>
>
> I don't take him seriously either. He has said too many unbelievable
> things about the test over the last year, such as, "I cannot tell whether
> it passed or failed." That's absurd, as I said several times last year.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Jed Rothwell]

Daniel Rocha  wrote:

Jed, I don't see any sense in what you write. Alright, it has a US address.
> So what?
>

I am saying I do not know where this company is located. There is no
indication on the web site. No phone number or address at all. A Whois
inquiry for ecat.tech finds nothing -- which is strange!

The only address or contact anywhere is for Mr. Green, including his U.S.
address. If he and ecat.tech are in the U.S., this would be under U.S.
jurisdiction.



> BTW,  right now, I don't take Rossi or any of these guys saying they are
> ready to release seriously. I think, deep down, I never had taken. It feels
> like reading an online RPG being played.
>

I don't take him seriously either. He has said too many unbelievable things
about the test over the last year, such as, "I cannot tell whether it
passed or failed." That's absurd, as I said several times last year.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Daniel Rocha]

Jed, I don't see any sense in what you write. Alright, it has a US address.
So what?

***

BTW,  right now, I don't take Rossi or any of these guys saying they are
ready to release seriously. I think, deep down, I never had taken. It feels
like reading an online RPG being played.

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Jed Rothwell]

Daniel Rocha  wrote:

Last time I checked, USA jurisdiction did not encompass the whole world, at
> least officially, haha!
>

There is no indication where this company Ecat.tech is located. Except for
Roger Green's address. He has one in Australia and one in the U.S. So it
could be under U.S. jurisdiction.

Roger Green
P O BOX 7788
Bondi Beach NSW 2026
Sydney, Australia.
P O Box 706
Manhattan NYC
NY 10022 USA
e...@earthlink.net
www.Ecat.Tech

I cannot find a whois record for ecat.tech.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Daniel Rocha]

Last time I checked, USA jurisdiction did not encompass the whole world, at
least officially, haha!

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

Green is a New Zealand promoter of some notoriety who has had run-ins with
> Rossi before.
>

You mean disagreements with Rossi? I wonder if Rossi is now on good terms
with him.

Here is Green's bio:

https://www.ecat.tech/about-roger-green

And here is Rossi's:

https://www.ecat.tech/about-andrea-rossi

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Jones Beene]

Green is a New Zealand promoter of some notoriety who has had run-ins with 
Rossi before.

 

Prediction: Green’s website is so inaccurate and inappropriate in the eyes of 
US financial regulators -- completely deceptive as to who is saying what – that 
Industrial Heat will be forced to issue a strongly worded Press Release … soon 
… which disavows any connection of their company to Roger Green, ECat Tech, or 
to the bogus information on this site.

 

The vocal critics of Rossi (especially Gary Wright) have already alerted the 
SEC and other Federal and State regulators to this ongoing situation, and will 
not let crap like this website slide by, which clearly appears designed to 
implicate IH.

 

 

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

Jones Beene wrote:

First, the good news. Here it is – in print. 

Too bad it is not coming from someone with the credibility of Tom Darden/IH.

  https://www.ecat.tech/

The site presents a fabulous first impression – especially for those who have 
never heard of Roger Green.

Can someone explain who is who here? Who is Green? If this web site has no 
connection with I. H. where did it come from and why is it selling Rossi 
reactors?

 

- Jed

 

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Peter Gluck]

See the Sifferkoll map- Green has right for Australia and Africa if I do
not err

peter

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> First, the good news. Here it is – in print.
>>
>> Too bad it is not coming from someone with the credibility of Tom
>> Darden/IH.
>>
>> *https://www.ecat.tech/* 
>>
>> The site presents a fabulous first impression – especially for those who
>> have never heard of Roger Green.
>>
> Can someone explain who is who here? Who is Green? If this web site has no
> connection with I. H. where did it come from and why is it selling Rossi
> reactors?
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

> First, the good news. Here it is – in print.
>
> Too bad it is not coming from someone with the credibility of Tom
> Darden/IH.
>
> *https://www.ecat.tech/* 
>
> The site presents a fabulous first impression – especially for those who
> have never heard of Roger Green.
>
Can someone explain who is who here? Who is Green? If this web site has no
connection with I. H. where did it come from and why is it selling Rossi
reactors?

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Bob Cook]

ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger GreenJones--

The Aussies are a close nit group—Greene, Cook and Acland probably know each 
other well.  They all seem to be friends of Rossi.  They have respectable names 
as well. 

From: Jones Beene 
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 8:01 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Subject: [Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

First, the good news. Here it is – in print. 

Too bad it is not coming from someone with the credibility of Tom Darden/IH.

https://www.ecat.tech/

The site presents a fabulous first impression – especially for those who have 
never heard of Roger Green.

The specs are listed – and basically there is a “guaranteed” COP of 6:1 which 
is 1 megawatt of heat out and an average of 167 kW electrical in. Fabulous even 
if they measure the fuel in “barrows”. 


If this datum were to be true – Roger cannot make them fast enough and the 
world is suddenly a much different place (especially the norther latitudes of 
which he only has Korea as a prime zone).

Let’s give the Rossi’s fan-boys time to gloat in the warm-regards of Roger’s 
premature announcement - before mentioning the bad news.



The bad news I guess is that E-Cat X will be coming out soon and will produce 
electricity directly in increments of about 100 watts called “Quarks” because 
of their small wafer size.  

Bob Cook

[Vo]:ECat boxes for sale with Specs - from Roger Green

[Jones Beene]

First, the good news. Here it is - in print. 

Too bad it is not coming from someone with the credibility of Tom Darden/IH.

https://www.ecat.tech/

The site presents a fabulous first impression - especially for those who
have never heard of Roger Green.

The specs are listed - and basically there is a "guaranteed" COP of 6:1
which is 1 megawatt of heat out and an average of 167 kW electrical in.
Fabulous even if they measure the fuel in "barrows". 

If this datum were to be true - Roger cannot make them fast enough and the
world is suddenly a much different place (especially the norther latitudes
of which he only has Korea as a prime zone).

Let's give the Rossi's fan-boys time to gloat in the warm-regards of Roger's
premature announcement - before mentioning the bad news.

Re: [Vo]:ECAT plus solar cells

[Axil Axil]

Rossi has stated that he can control the voltage and amperage through a
tradeoff  control parameter. He also stated that he can control the
electrical and heat output through a tradeoff  control parameters. A solar
cell approach would provide a constant output of current/voltage only.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 12:59 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> I have a suspicion that the latest news from Rossi that DC output can be
> useful with his latest ECAT is believable.   The amount of light emitted by
> his active device near the heated core has an intensity that is far
> greater than that due to normal sun light.
>
> It reminds me of the systems that use lenses to concentrate the incoming
> normal sun light in order to allow for the usage of smaller solar cells.
> All Rossi has to do is to place two 1 foot square panels of cells within
> the structure that supports his patented core system.   Each panel within
> the device needs to be in contact with the outer support structure while
> leaving a space between it and the actual 1200 C plus temperature core
> element.  The later spacing is to ensure that radiation is the main path
> that the escaping power takes on its way to the coolant.
>
> I would expect the small gap between the solar cells and the core to
> remain free of coolant while operating due to the extreme temperature
> residing within that region.  A modest seal would be all that is required
> in order to accomplish that task.  Once operating temperature is achieved
> any leakage coolant would be evaporated from the gap.
>
> The opposite side of the solar cell panel would be cooled by the
> circulating coolant which can be at a much lower temperature than the core
> heating element thus allowing it to operate efficiently.
>
> Does anyone detect a reason why the system described above would not
> work?  It seems appropriate to collect the concentrated photon energy from
> such a concentrated source and directly convert it into DC.
>
> Dave
>

[Vo]:ECAT plus solar cells

[David Roberson]

I have a suspicion that the latest news from Rossi that DC output can be useful 
with his latest ECAT is believable.   The amount of light emitted by his active 
device near the heated core has an intensity that is far greater than that due 
to normal sun light.  

It reminds me of the systems that use lenses to concentrate the incoming normal 
sun light in order to allow for the usage of smaller solar cells.  All Rossi 
has to do is to place two 1 foot square panels of cells within the structure 
that supports his patented core system.   Each panel within the device needs to 
be in contact with the outer support structure while leaving a space between it 
and the actual 1200 C plus temperature core element.  The later spacing is to 
ensure that radiation is the main path that the escaping power takes on its way 
to the coolant.

I would expect the small gap between the solar cells and the core to remain 
free of coolant while operating due to the extreme temperature residing within 
that region.  A modest seal would be all that is required in order to 
accomplish that task.  Once operating temperature is achieved any leakage 
coolant would be evaporated from the gap.

The opposite side of the solar cell panel would be cooled by the circulating 
coolant which can be at a much lower temperature than the core heating element 
thus allowing it to operate efficiently.

Does anyone detect a reason why the system described above would not work?  It 
seems appropriate to collect the concentrated photon energy from such a 
concentrated source and directly convert it into DC.

Dave

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback Prometion statement

[Alain Sepeda]

Rossi not a serious businessman, promising more than what he can deliver?
Cherokee not tender with others companies, trying to close competitors?

is it so surprising?

2014-11-24 18:44 GMT+01:00 Alan Fletcher :

> A very condemning statement from Promethion (E-Cat licensee) --- they had
> 1MW orders, but Rossi wouldn't complete them.
>
> <
> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/24/prometeon-srl-addresses-e-cat-licensee-status/
> >
>

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback Prometion statement

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Promising that to the public in general is one thing.  Signing contracts
with partners is another.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Alain Sepeda 
wrote:

> Rossi not a serious businessman, promising more than what he can deliver?
> Cherokee not tender with others companies, trying to close competitors?
>
> is it so surprising?
>
> 2014-11-24 18:44 GMT+01:00 Alan Fletcher :
>
>> A very condemning statement from Promethion (E-Cat licensee) --- they had
>> 1MW orders, but Rossi wouldn't complete them.
>>
>> <
>> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/24/prometeon-srl-addresses-e-cat-licensee-status/
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback Prometion statement

[Alan Fletcher]

A very condemning statement from Promethion (E-Cat licensee) --- they had 1MW 
orders, but Rossi wouldn't complete them. 


 

RE: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Ransom Wuller]

Precisely, so if there are no products to sell, the sales quota is not met and 
the license expires. The licensee is left with nothing.   So either sue for 
misrepresentation on the basis that the agreement assumed a product would be 
available for sale, try to negotiate an extension (assuming that option was on 
the table from IH), or accept a buy out of the license for original price plus.

 

That is what I assumed since it was reported some of the licensees had received 
a buyout.

 

Ransom

 

From: Alan Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 8:24 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

 

A kind reader sent me the link. Thank you.

 

http://shutdownrossi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Leonardo-Corporation-Exclusive-India-E-Cat-License-S.pdf

 

This particular one was for Roger Greene/Indian Sub-continent (unsigned) ... 
with the year 2012 printed on the form.

It was for three years, and would only be renewed automatically if sales 
exceeded 10M.  

So it would expire next year if there were no sales. 

 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

A kind reader sent me the link. Thank you. 

http://shutdownrossi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Leonardo-Corporation-Exclusive-India-E-Cat-License-S.pdf
 

This particular one was for Roger Greene/Indian Sub-continent (unsigned) ... 
with the year 2012 printed on the form. 
It was for three years, and would only be renewed automatically if sales 
exceeded 10M. 
So it would expire next year if there were no sales. 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

The license was leaked by Gary Wright -- http://shutdownrossi.com/ : still 
active (latest post Nov 14) but I can't find the text. The original link 
http://shutdownrossi.com/?page_id=775 has rotted. 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

From: "Ransom Wuller"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:20:57 PM 


Blaze: 



That’s a good question. The license was only good for three years (based on a 
leaked example) and it relied on products being available for sale, otherwise 
it had no value. If IH had no plans for production during the remaining window 
(1 year or so), the license would have been worthless save for the right of the 
licensee to sue Rossi. Just speculating but the choice may have been to accept 
no sales through the term (with some hope to extend in the future), sue or a 
buyout. Just speculation on my part. 



Ransom 









I haven't found the license text yet, but here's a report on one of the biggest 
investors -- Roger Greene / Australia 

http://pesn.com/2013/05/17/9602315_Interview-with_E-Cat-Distributor-License-Broker_Roger-Green/
 




"Most people are putting in around $10,000." 

"I have put in more than anyone by far: $400,000," he said, which apparently 
has secured him a good chunk of Asia, along with Australia. "I've put my life 
savings in and mortgaged houses." 

He pointed out that: "If it wasn't emerging, and we sold one, then you could 
add a few more zeroes to these license [prices]." 

Roger's cut from bringing other licensees to the table comes in the form of 
equity, not cash. So the only way he makes money is when the units start 
selling 




(And it's distribution only -- manufacturing was Defkalion). 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

From: "Ransom Wuller"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:20:57 PM 


That’s a good question. The license was only good for three years (based on a 
leaked example) and it relied on products being available for sale, otherwise 
it had no value. If IH had no plans for production during the remaining window 
(1 year or so), the license would have been worthless save for the right of the 
licensee to sue Rossi. Just speculating but the choice may have been to accept 
no sales through the term (with some hope to extend in the future), sue or a 
buyout. Just speculation on my part. 






I haven't found the text yet, but here's a report on Roger Green's 
Australia/Asia license : 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Kevin O'Malley]

>From their perspective, delay after delay and promises unkept, it becomes a
matter of accepting cash in hand or a bird in the bush that's always
getting relocated.

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Yeah I was going to post that as well.  Very peculiar.  Why would anyone
> sell back the license as things are heating up?
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Alan Fletcher  wrote:
>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> November 19th, 2014 at 7:43 AM
>>
>> Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
>> You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have
>> cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our
>> commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously,
>> superior to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted
>> our proposal and sold us back their license.
>> The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure
>> Agreement).
>> We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative
>> relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific
>> issues.
>> Warm Regards,
>> A.R.
>>
>> - - - -
>>
>> For the "ecat bets" that probably reduces the probability that Rossi's
>> running a scam. Of course, the statement could be positive or negative,
>> truth-wise.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

From: "Blaze Spinnaker"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:37:06 PM 
> Yeah I was going to post that as well. Very peculiar. Why would anyone sell 
> back the license as things are heating up? 

Because domestic ecats are going to be a very long time coming? 
(Weren't the licenses mostly for setting up domestic ecat factories? Or was 
that Defkalion?) 
Also, 1 MW's could be built in a single factory and shipped world-wide, and 
maybe had different conditions in the license? 

Would rather take a quick, small [ could be big!] profit than hang on for 
(potentially) decades? 
(I gather some of them didn't have deep pockets to start with, and maybe 
couldn't actually have fulfilled their licenses) 

In short : depends. 

RE: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Ransom Wuller]

Blaze:

 

That’s a good question.  The license was only good for three years (based on a 
leaked example) and it relied on products being available for sale, otherwise 
it had no value.  If IH had no plans for production during the remaining window 
(1 year or so), the license would have been worthless save for the right of the 
licensee to sue Rossi.  Just speculating but the choice may have been to accept 
no sales through the term (with some hope to extend in the future), sue or a 
buyout.  Just speculation on my part.

 

Ransom

 

From: Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:37 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

 

Yeah I was going to post that as well.  Very peculiar.  Why would anyone sell 
back the license as things are heating up?

 

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Alan Fletcher  wrote:

Andrea Rossi
November 19th, 2014 at 7:43 AM

Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have 
cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our 
commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously, superior 
to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal 
and sold us back their license.
The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement).
We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative 
relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific 
issues.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

- - - -

For the "ecat bets" that probably reduces the probability that Rossi's running 
a scam. Of course, the statement could be positive or negative, truth-wise.

 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Yeah I was going to post that as well.  Very peculiar.  Why would anyone
sell back the license as things are heating up?

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Alan Fletcher  wrote:

> Andrea Rossi
> November 19th, 2014 at 7:43 AM
>
> Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
> You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have
> cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our
> commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously,
> superior to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted
> our proposal and sold us back their license.
> The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure
> Agreement).
> We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative
> relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific
> issues.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> - - - -
>
> For the "ecat bets" that probably reduces the probability that Rossi's
> running a scam. Of course, the statement could be positive or negative,
> truth-wise.
>
>

[Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

Andrea Rossi
November 19th, 2014 at 7:43 AM

Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have 
cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our 
commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously, superior 
to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal 
and sold us back their license.
The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement).
We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative 
relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific 
issues.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

- - - - 

For the "ecat bets" that probably reduces the probability that Rossi's running 
a scam. Of course, the statement could be positive or negative, truth-wise.

Re: [Vo]:ECAT Uses AC and not DC

[David Roberson]

Do you think that is what he is referring to?
 
I agree that DC into the heater resistors should likely work if gas can be 
used, but his wording is very confusing.   There remains a possible conflict 
generated by a uni directional magnetic field.   To point out that DC does not 
work while AC is required suggests that this is the case.  Converting AC into 
DC is such a trivial operation these days that no one should point out that one 
works while the other does not at the heater input port without good reason.

I suppose that the physical specifications of the complete system likely would 
say that it operates on 50 or 60 Hertz AC power input.  It might be that 
simple.  It has been so long since any operational information has been 
released that I grabbed the first morsel.

 
Dave
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Alan Fletcher 
To: vortex-l ; vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ECAT Uses AC and not DC


At 10:22 AM 9/15/2014, David Roberson wrote:

Rossihas stated within his blog that the HotCat only works on AC power. Both 50 
and 60 hertz appear to work with his system.

I think that the AC requirement is just for his control system,modulating the 
power with a thyristor.   I suspect that aDC-to-AC inverter would work just 
fine (with a small loss ofefficiency).

Re: [Vo]:ECAT Uses AC and not DC

[Alan Fletcher]

At 10:22 AM 9/15/2014, David Roberson wrote:
Rossi
has stated within his blog that the HotCat only works on AC power. 
Both 50 and 60 hertz appear to work with his system.
I think that the AC requirement is just for his control system,
modulating the power with a thyristor.   I suspect that a
DC-to-AC inverter would work just fine (with a small loss of
efficiency).

Re: [Vo]:ECAT Uses AC and not DC

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:

I think we're doing an adequate job of confusing ourselves.
>

Well said!

That's Tyler Perry movie, isn't it? "I Can Do Confusion All By Myself."

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:ECAT Uses AC and not DC

[James Bowery]

I think we're doing an adequate job of confusing ourselves.

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> Rossi has stated within his blog that the HotCat only works on AC power.
> Both 50 and 60 hertz appear to work with his system.
>
> This is strange since he has indicated on several occasions that gas
> powered input is being used as well.  The implication is that DC must cause
> some type of issue that degrades the device performance.  Of course AC
> would lead to a reversal of the magnetic field emanating from the heating
> element periodically, but gas should not become involved in the magnetic
> field environment.
>
> Could this be another attempt by Rossi to confuse us since we are
> beginning to suspect that the magnetic coupling is a major factor?
>
> Dave
>

[Vo]:ECAT Uses AC and not DC

[David Roberson]

Rossi has stated within his blog that the HotCat only works on AC power.  Both 
50 and 60 hertz appear to work with his system.

This is strange since he has indicated on several occasions that gas powered 
input is being used as well.  The implication is that DC must cause some type 
of issue that degrades the device performance.  Of course AC would lead to a 
reversal of the magnetic field emanating from the heating element periodically, 
but gas should not become involved in the magnetic field environment.

Could this be another attempt by Rossi to confuse us since we are beginning to 
suspect that the magnetic coupling is a major factor?

Dave

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

Re: Betmoose is taking over where Intrade left off


[image: Post] by *ko
* » Sun
Jun 29, 2014 1:54 pm
The cool thing about BetMoose is that you can write whatever contract
strikes your fancy.

You think the outcome of some special election or a report on LENR is
monumental? Write a contract for it.

Let's say you work at a multi$billion company and you KNOW that their
device is faulty, causing little babies to fly through car windows. The
company is sitting on the report due to financial considerations. You write
a contract about whether the company will issue a recall, or how many
babies will get injured before the recall, or even some independent third
party approach towards how important this issue became, such as the number
of google hits for "babies through the windshield" and "insert car company
here" over a 1 week period would be greater than 100 hits. You can write
whatever contract you want.

Look, I know that this is a very base analogy.  If you have a better one,
present it.

In my case, I invested in CYPW because I thought they'd benefit from the
upcoming Third Independent Party (TIP) report about the Rossi Ecat. But it
turned out, by investing in CYPW, I had jumped into a very unhealthy stock.
For no reasons whatsoever to do with Rossi.

So with BetMoose you can bet on what you want to bet on.

For instance, I'm looking at setting up a contract that at least 2
skeptopaths will claim the upcoming TIP report is somehow fixed, connected
to the scam that is Rossi and in on the scam, mesmerized by Rossi, or
basically otherwise corrupt by some amazing level of scam ability that
Rossi possesses.

How do I do that? By carefully writing about google hits on various phrases
before & after the event.

So when the report comes out, that will be day zero. at 0 minus 12 weeks, a
google search for "Rossi is a scam artist" would yield the usual suspects
who are skeptopaths. It would ONLY be those skeptopaths who would qualify
to post that these 7 independent scientists were in on the scam.

I need to narrow down the parameters, tweak this contract a bit, make sure
there's no gaping holes before I post it.  The fact is, skeptopaths who
become aware that their posts will trigger an financial outcome will go
silent.  Such a thing needs to be written into the contract.  Imagine the
silence of skeptopaths!

THAT is what I'd like to bet on. I'm CERTAIN that skeptopaths will say such
a thing. Now there's finally some kind of avenue to express such a
sentiment and hopefully put my money where my mouth is & benefit as a
result.

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

LENR-Invest Fund invested in Lenuco, the startup of George Miley

12 hours ago
http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.p ... rge-Miley/



New
LENR-Invest, the LENR investment fund recently launched who raised
$205,000, recently added Lenuco to their list of key investment, beside
LENR-Cars, Brillouin Energy, LENR-proof (the site of tyler).
They describe Lenuco that way:


LENUCO LLC has been founded by Prof. Emeritus George Miley to provide a
platform for the development and commercialization of LENR technology. The
company is based in Champaign, Illinois, USA on the campus of the
University of Illinois, with which it has a strategic partnership. In
addition to the significant achievements in LENR cells using NI alloy
nano-particles, LENUCO holds several highly valuable patents related to the
LENR core technology.



George Miley the founder, a pioneer of NiH and gas permeation in powder, is
known for proposing two applications of his technology :

His first proposal was to replace Pu238 Radioisotopic Thermal Generator
used in space probes, because of the planned shortage of Pu238 with
decommissioning of nuclear weapon. This application is well described in
that article on NextBigFuture, or in ILENR12 presentation.

Recently Lou Pagnuco found that Miley was planed for a presentation at an
ANS conference for isotope specialist, about Space application.

Am. Nuclear Soc. - 2014 Intl Conf on Isotopes and Expo: Preliminary Program
August 24-28, 2014 / Hyatt Regency-Chicago / Chicago, IL
Monday, August 25, 2014, 3:30 P.M.-6:00 P.M.
Progress in Development of Low Energy Nuclear Reaction(LENR) Power Cells
for Space Applications,
George H. Miley,Kyu-Jung Kim, Tapan Patel, Bert Stunkard (Univ of
Illinois), invited



His second application is a LENR Distributed Power Generator, that he
proposed to a DoE funded contest on Future Energy Ultralight Startups
platform.

No information on their plans, and the maturity of his technology.
Recent information (2013) I had was that it worked but with endurance
problems...
Getting funded may help him to solve those problems, if they are still
present.

I wish them good luck.
Images

lenuco-160.jpg
5,76 kB, 170×66, viewed 120 times

“Only puny secrets need keeping. The biggest secrets are kept by public
incredulity.” (Marshall McLuhan)
"Heureusement que Galilée n’a pas suivi le consensus de son époque, car la
terre n’aurait pas tourné !" (Claude Allégre)
"I trust those hungry for dollars a thousand times more than those hungry
for honors and rank." (Nassim Nicholas Taleb)
See my raw tech-watch on scoop.it/u/alain-coetmeur & twitter @alain_co

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

An interesting exchange I had on the CYPW Cycone Power message boards that
seems appropriate for this thread.

http://finance.yahoo.com/mb/forumview/?&v=m&bn=6ed54729-7ab6-30d3-94f3-a20d6f37996d


   -  Reply to hellokevin and CYPW pumping
   

   by buddywhazhizname
   

   •Jun 9, 2014 11:52 AM
   *hellokevin@*
   

   •a second agoRemove
   

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   Ferinstance, google V0Z2Gzg7o84 for a video of the Voith Steamtrac waste
   heat system. It looks like they've just formed a company called SteamDrive
   de to sell them. No "One Planet One Engine" BS. Just a system proven to
   work and for sale. You can also buy steam engine waste heat recovery
   systems from 5 to 120 kW from Conpower de complete with a factory warranty.
   And the BMW Turbosteamer protoype car uses a piston steam engine run on
   waste heat. Honda has also shown a working prototype of a similar system.
   The DOE SuperTruck program has Cummins, Detroit Diesel and Navistar, plus
   Volvo Trucks and Renault Trucks in Europe, each demonstrating working waste
   heat recovery systems on diesel engines. A French company, Exoès, is making
   piston steam engines for waste heat recovery from car engine exhaust, as is
   Bosch in Germany.
   ***Some of this strikes me as reasonably good information for those who
   would seek to invest in LENR in one way or another, so I'll be stealing it
   and reposting it elsewhere.
   -  Reply to hellokevin and CYPW pumping
   

   by buddywhazhizname
   

   •Jun 9, 2014 11:52 AM
   *hellokevin@*
   
a
   second agoRemove
   

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   KO: "Such a company with an infusion of cash like, say, $5Billion, would
   turn around utterly quick. They've been starved of development funds. "

   Buddyboy: kevin, kevin, kevin, Cyclone Power has, according to the
   latest 10Q, a deficit since inception of "$22.1 million attributable to
   actual operating losses." They've done this trying to build a steam engine
   that works.
   ***Your statement doesn't even address my contention. In fact, it
   actually reinforces what I said.

   KO: It's harder to do than it looks. Just like the internal combustion
   engine, which took decades to perfec

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[H Veeder]

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> H Veeder  wrote:
>
>
>> How do you view the decision to not build a higher sea wall?
>>
>
> Unfortunate. But understandable. The previous tsunami of this magnitude
> occurred in 869 AD. There were records of it, and even man-markers of the
> high water mark. But I think experts assumed the ancient records were
> exaggerations. See:
>
>
> http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-17/scientist-warned-tsunami-disaster-japan
>
>
> http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-17/scientist-warned-tsunami-disaster-japan
>
> I have heard they are now going back and reviewing these ancient records
> and paying closer attention than they did before the disaster.
>
> In retrospect, I think they should have moved the emergency generator fuel
> tanks to a safer location. That would not have prevented damage to the
> facility, but it would have stopped the event from spiraling into a
> disaster. It would be cheaper and faster than building a better seawall, I
> think. It would take a gigantic seawall to stop this, judging by the videos
> of the tsunami striking the plant.
>
>
Yes


>
>
>> Was it an acceptable cost vs risk tradeoff or a criminal mistake?
>>
>
> I do not think it was criminal. Responsibility is too dispersed.
> Obviously, in retrospect, it was not acceptable. I do not know how I might
> have judged it before the event. Hindsight is easy.
>
> - Jed
>
>
It seems nulcear plants built after the Fukushima plant and along the same
stretch of coast were deliberately built at higher elevations.
Ironically there was a natural sea wall which would have protected the
Fukushima plant from the tidal wave, but it was razed during construction
of the plant:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/11/tepco-destroyed-the-natural-seawall-which-would-have-protected-fukushima-from-the-tsunami.html

Harry

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

H Veeder  wrote:


> How do you view the decision to not build a higher sea wall?
>

Unfortunate. But understandable. The previous tsunami of this magnitude
occurred in 869 AD. There were records of it, and even man-markers of the
high water mark. But I think experts assumed the ancient records were
exaggerations. See:

http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-17/scientist-warned-tsunami-disaster-japan

http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-17/scientist-warned-tsunami-disaster-japan

I have heard they are now going back and reviewing these ancient records
and paying closer attention than they did before the disaster.

In retrospect, I think they should have moved the emergency generator fuel
tanks to a safer location. That would not have prevented damage to the
facility, but it would have stopped the event from spiraling into a
disaster. It would be cheaper and faster than building a better seawall, I
think. It would take a gigantic seawall to stop this, judging by the videos
of the tsunami striking the plant.



> Was it an acceptable cost vs risk tradeoff or a criminal mistake?
>

I do not think it was criminal. Responsibility is too dispersed. Obviously,
in retrospect, it was not acceptable. I do not know how I might have judged
it before the event. Hindsight is easy.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Unless they've already submitted a patent app for them.


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Furthermore, pursuant to the new US patent laws, any technical tidbits
> that these builders release to the public cannot be protected by patent.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:05 PM, David Roberson 
> wrote:
>
>> I have not seen any reference from Rossi about the operation of his
>> device in a long time.  I suspect that the new owners of his technology
>> want to keep trade secrets as long as possible.  Rossi once was far more
>> open to questions.
>>
>> He has not spoken of magnetic fields as related to his ECAT to my
>> knowledge.  Of course, if they were very important he would want to hold
>> that information under tight control to keep others from researching it.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>> From: Axil Axil 
>> To: vortex-l 
>> Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 12:00 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only
>>
>>  "It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic fields."
>>
>>  Anything new from Rossi on magnetic fields produced by his invention?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:57 AM, David Roberson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not recall seeing reference to this earlier.  Rossi stated in his
>>> Journal that he uses AC source power to control the ECAT.  According to his
>>> words it would be inefficient to convert the source power into DC when the
>>> heating apparently is the main function of the current.  This suggests that
>>> the magnetic field originating from the heating source may not be
>>> important.  It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic
>>> fields.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only

[Axil Axil]

Furthermore, pursuant to the new US patent laws, any technical tidbits that
these builders release to the public cannot be protected by patent.


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:05 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> I have not seen any reference from Rossi about the operation of his
> device in a long time.  I suspect that the new owners of his technology
> want to keep trade secrets as long as possible.  Rossi once was far more
> open to questions.
>
> He has not spoken of magnetic fields as related to his ECAT to my
> knowledge.  Of course, if they were very important he would want to hold
> that information under tight control to keep others from researching it.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Axil Axil 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 12:00 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only
>
>  "It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic fields."
>
>  Anything new from Rossi on magnetic fields produced by his invention?
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:57 AM, David Roberson 
> wrote:
>
>> I do not recall seeing reference to this earlier.  Rossi stated in his
>> Journal that he uses AC source power to control the ECAT.  According to his
>> words it would be inefficient to convert the source power into DC when the
>> heating apparently is the main function of the current.  This suggests that
>> the magnetic field originating from the heating source may not be
>> important.  It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic
>> fields.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only

[Jones Beene]

From: David Roberson 

 

I have not seen any reference from Rossi about the operation of his device
in a long time.  I suspect that the new owners of his technology want to
keep trade secrets as long as possible.  Rossi once was far more open to
questions.

 

BTW - here is a point that needs clarification.

 

There are some reports that the upcoming report, which now seems to be
called the 2014 TIP Report (Third Independent Party), instead of the Elforsk
report (to avoid confusion with the earlier one) concerns the HT version,
the so-called hot-cat, and the image from Lewan yesterday is of the that HT
device but it looks like the widely distributed image from 2013. 

 

I have not followed Rossi's comments closely enough to know if the upcoming
report will focus on the hot device alone, both versions, or only the
earlier version. Has Rossi ever been pinned down on this detail?

 

Jones






 

Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only

[David Roberson]

I have not seen any reference from Rossi about the operation of his device in a 
long time.  I suspect that the new owners of his technology want to keep trade 
secrets as long as possible.  Rossi once was far more open to questions.

He has not spoken of magnetic fields as related to his ECAT to my knowledge.  
Of course, if they were very important he would want to hold that information 
under tight control to keep others from researching it.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only



"It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic fields."


Anything new from Rossi on magnetic fields produced by his invention?




On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:57 AM, David Roberson  wrote:

I do not recall seeing reference to this earlier.  Rossi stated in his Journal 
that he uses AC source power to control the ECAT.  According to his words it 
would be inefficient to convert the source power into DC when the heating 
apparently is the main function of the current.  This suggests that the 
magnetic field originating from the heating source may not be important.  It 
does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic fields.

Dave

Re: [Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only

[Axil Axil]

"It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic fields."

Anything new from Rossi on magnetic fields produced by his invention?


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:57 AM, David Roberson  wrote:

> I do not recall seeing reference to this earlier.  Rossi stated in his
> Journal that he uses AC source power to control the ECAT.  According to his
> words it would be inefficient to convert the source power into DC when the
> heating apparently is the main function of the current.  This suggests that
> the magnetic field originating from the heating source may not be
> important.  It does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic
> fields.
>
> Dave
>

[Vo]:ECAT on AC Power Only

[David Roberson]

I do not recall seeing reference to this earlier.  Rossi stated in his Journal 
that he uses AC source power to control the ECAT.  According to his words it 
would be inefficient to convert the source power into DC when the heating 
apparently is the main function of the current.  This suggests that the 
magnetic field originating from the heating source may not be important.  It 
does not imply anything about other sources of magnetic fields.

Dave

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Terry Blanton]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:40 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> If it can be commercialized, and it
> doesn't cause cancer within a 2 km radius or beckon forth giant sea
> monsters,

Hah! Release the Kraken!

http://elmisa.deviantart.com/art/Kraken-v2-424365880

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Alain Sepeda  wrote:

be sure all the people will consider cold fusion as a black swan event,
> while it is predictable in principle since 1990, and more or less planned
> since 2010.
>

I think the spread of cold fusion will be a black swan event, even if we've
seen evidence for it for two decades.  If it can be commercialized, and it
doesn't cause cancer within a 2 km radius or beckon forth giant sea
monsters, I think in its implications it will rank somewhere between the
industrial revolution and the discovery of fire.  It will turn the modern
economy upside down.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[H Veeder]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> Whenever you see some idiot standing on a bully pulpit in media,
>> government and/or academia and saying "Who could have foreseen?"  You can
>> bet someone did foresee it and not just because a broken clock is right
>> twice a day.
>
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> The Three Mile Island disaster was foretold, as I wrote earlier. The
> engineer who did field inspections reported that the same events had
> happened in other plants of this design, and that if it happened under full
> load the results might be disastrous.
>
> That is one example. There is a similar one that makes me feel sorry for
> regulators and field engineers. After Fukushima, someone found a report
> buried in the files saying: "There is historical evidence of high tsunamis
> in this area, so we should build up the sea wall in this reactor complex,
> and take other steps to avoid a catastrophe from a tsunami."
>
> In other words, Fukushima was a disaster foretold, just as Three Mile Island
> was. A reporter asked a Japanese official about this. The official responded
> with a bout of honesty that I suppose was induced by months of overwork and
> worry. He said something like: "You can always find a report predicting a
> disaster. Any disaster. We look at every scenario. We have experts in every
> field look into anything imaginable. The thing is, if you were to turn off a
> reactor until every possible scenario is covered, you would never turn it
> on." That was prophetic. Soon after that, they turned off nearly every
> Japanese nuke, and most are still off.
>
>
> Risk can never be fully eliminated. Ordinary members of the public have
> difficulty understanding this, but engineers know it. People get upset when
> airplanes crash or factories burn down. Sometimes they are justified in
> getting upset, such when a factory has a terrible safety record. Other
> times, people should simply accept that risk is inevitable despite our best
> efforts.

How do you view the decision to not build a higher sea wall?
Was it an acceptable cost vs risk tradeoff or a criminal mistake?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:

Whenever you see some idiot standing on a bully pulpit in media, government
> and/or academia and saying "Who could have foreseen?"  You can bet someone
> did foresee it and not just because a broken clock is right twice a day.
>

Yes, indeed.

The Three Mile Island disaster was foretold, as I wrote earlier. The
engineer who did field inspections reported that the same events had
happened in other plants of this design, and that if it happened under full
load the results might be disastrous.

That is one example. There is a similar one that makes me feel sorry for
regulators and field engineers. After Fukushima, someone found a report
buried in the files saying: "There is historical evidence of high tsunamis
in this area, so we should build up the sea wall in this reactor complex,
and take other steps to avoid a catastrophe from a tsunami."

In other words, Fukushima was a disaster foretold, just as Three Mile
Island was. A reporter asked a Japanese official about this. The official
responded with a bout of honesty that I suppose was induced by months of
overwork and worry. He said something like: "You can always find a report
predicting a disaster. Any disaster. We look at every scenario. We have
experts in every field look into anything imaginable. The thing is, if you
were to turn off a reactor until every possible scenario is covered, you
would never turn it on." That was prophetic. Soon after that, they turned
off nearly every Japanese nuke, and most are still off.

Risk can never be fully eliminated. Ordinary members of the public have
difficulty understanding this, but engineers know it. People get upset when
airplanes crash or factories burn down. Sometimes they are justified in
getting upset, such when a factory has a terrible safety record. Other
times, people should simply accept that risk is inevitable despite our best
efforts. One of the things I fear about the future of cold fusion is that
people will insist it be "perfectly safe" without a trace of tritium. I
fear they will ignore the fact that tritium is safely contained by the
barriers built into by exit signs and wrist watches.

People nowadays complain about the mercury released when you break a CFL
lightbulb. This makes no sense because:

1. You seldom break a lightbulb. Think about it. When was the last time you
did that?

2. Conventional incandescent lightbulbs release far more mercury than CFL
bulbs do, when you take into account the mercury released from burning coal.

Coal also releases far more radioactive garbage into the atmosphere than
any intact normal fission reactor, albeit far less than Chernobyl or
Fukushima. When it comes to safety and pollution, fission is an
all-or-nothing technology.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Alain Sepeda]

One point where you probably agree is that many blackswan were in fact
ignored voluntarily, like cold fusion is.

>From the point of view of mainstream many things were unpredictable, yet
some like Roubini predicted them in detail.*

I din not read the blackswan, but antifragile.
and this author is sometime very violent, exagerating, but it mirror the
consensus around which is to be broken...

Cold fusion shows that we can have evidence in front of our nose, in the
expected scientific format that we requires fiercely, but we ignore them.

be sure all the people will consider cold fusion as a black swan event,
while it is predictable in principle since 1990, and more or less planned
since 2010.


2014-06-03 21:58 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :

> Alain Sepeda  wrote:
>
> One basic of Taleb philosophy  is that knowing what will be good or bad,
>> innovation or crackpots, is often not possible.
>>
>
> I was not impressed by Taleb's book "The Black Swan." I disagreed with
> most of the examples of things that he claimed were not anticipated by
> experts. I think these things were anticipated. In some cases, I myself
> anticipated them.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[James Bowery]

Whenever you see some idiot standing on a bully pulpit in media, government
and/or academia and saying "Who could have foreseen?"  You can bet someone
did foresee it and not just because a broken clock is right twice a day.


On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Alain Sepeda  wrote:
>
> One basic of Taleb philosophy  is that knowing what will be good or bad,
>> innovation or crackpots, is often not possible.
>>
>
> I was not impressed by Taleb's book "The Black Swan." I disagreed with
> most of the examples of things that he claimed were not anticipated by
> experts. I think these things were anticipated. In some cases, I myself
> anticipated them.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Alain Sepeda  wrote:

One basic of Taleb philosophy  is that knowing what will be good or bad,
> innovation or crackpots, is often not possible.
>

I was not impressed by Taleb's book "The Black Swan." I disagreed with most
of the examples of things that he claimed were not anticipated by experts.
I think these things were anticipated. In some cases, I myself anticipated
them.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Alain Sepeda]

One basic of Taleb philosophy  is that knowing what will be good or bad,
innovation or crackpots, is often not possible.

Another is that if you have skin in the game, will pay your faults, you
will instinctively better use the information you have.

this is one basic idea to prefer entrepreneurs to boards of experts, when
things can be very good or very bad.

anyway there are subject where even the most motivated guy have no way to
know if it will work. no planning can help, no board of expert.


2014-06-03 13:46 GMT+02:00 Terry Blanton :

> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
> > "The difference between a visionary and a crackpot is that the
> > visionary turns out to be right"...
>
> Given, otherwise, he would simply be another crackpot.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> "The difference between a visionary and a crackpot is that the
> visionary turns out to be right"...

Given, otherwise, he would simply be another crackpot.

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Alain Sepeda]

the position of Nassim Nicholas Taleb
is that history is written (not rewritten) by the losers, the academics,
because they own the books of history.

This is why in most official history the role of theory is very overstated,
that the initial discoverers who observed anomalies without the least
theory, and who were ignored by establishment, is forgotten, hidden.
This is why you see strangely that discovery and theory, or at least
academic discovery is most often the beginning of the story.

Taleb started in that article to state his vision
http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/Triana-fwd.pdf

but in Antifragile he develop that with reference to many invention like
jet reactor...

I bet that in my daughter history books, F&P will be treated as lucky
crackpotist, and cold fusion will be rediscovered in 2015 seriously by MIT,
helped by Caltech and Harwell, who will courageously walk over the terrible
job of a crazy community of crackpot fans, where Jed is a leading priest,
holding a library of esoteric pseudo-science, with mentally disordered
white haired clown infiltrating Navy, corps, international energy
departments, nuclear industry department. this is what history tells for
any serious historian. validated by Wikipravda.

Our job in the next decade will be to maintain the fact that there was
clear evidence of cold fusion since 1992, and that there is NO SURPRISING
EVIDENCE, as all is proven since long...

The tricks of the deniers will be to make the mom and pop believe that "now
there is new evidence that at last allow us to accept cold fusion as real".

I all we all will tell on the media that E-cat is just an industrial
application of a well known and scientifically validated phenomenon, which
was confirmed in the 1991-1992 period according to the scientific method,
and never seriously challenged scientifically. That all the rest is a myth,
a psychiatry of science, that is a challenge to human science.

We have to prevent the history to be rewritten and the criminals to be
freed of their crime. I propose that it is our mission as citizen for the
next decade.

Those who are also scientists or businessmen have additional mission to
make it work and implement the revolution, but as citizen, like member of a
jury, our job is to implement justice, to deter the next lane of deniers.

OFF WITH THEIR HEAD!



2014-06-03 4:37 GMT+02:00 Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net>:

> Kevin sez:
>
> ... "The difference between a visionary and a crackpot is that the
> visionary turns out to be right"...
>
> History is always revised by the victor.
>
> All good points, Kevin.
>
> Regards,
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> svjart.orionworks.com
>
>

RE: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Kevin sez:

... "The difference between a visionary and a crackpot is that the visionary 
turns out to be right"...   

History is always revised by the victor.

All good points, Kevin.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
svjart.orionworks.com

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

Those are great examples.  But your writing is so superior that I shouldn't
be reading it on the web for free.  It should have been in your book.

The counterexamples would include the guys who built videogames into a
huge, legitimate industry that drove CPU clock speeds; the Wright brothers
& A.I. Root, who was the first to document their achievement (in a
beekeeping journal) while Scientific American snubbed their noses at the
possibility and practicality of flight; Elon Musk;  Chuck Yeager (excellent
autobiography); Ronald Reagan; Burt Rutan; Vaclav Havel; the current Pope;
Horatio Alger; Steve Wozniak;  my Favorite: Jesus of Nazareth; and Robert
Metcalf "The difference between a *visionary* and a *crackpot* is that the
*visionary* turns out to be right"...


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
> It's my understanding that people in high demand in the media get paid for
>> their appearances.  And they go on lecture tours, where the lecture fees
>> paid to them can run into 6 figures per lecture.  That's how famous you
>> could become.
>>
>
> That sounds like fun! But I have nothing good to say about anyone in the
> establishment, so I doubt they will want to hear from me. You can go on Fox
> News and attack the New York Times, or vice versa, but if you blame both of
> them, neither will host you.
>
> History shows that people say they want the unvarnished truth, and they
> say they like to see the establishment brought down and fools suffer their
> comeuppance, but that is not true.
>
> Sen. William Smith uncovered the facts about the Titanic disaster and
> reformed passenger safety. His was attacked by the industry and press, and
> to be ridiculed and marginalized in nearly every book on the subject.
>
> Young British officers showed that the commanders of World War I
> squandered millions of lives with frontal attacks. They were vilified and
> forgotten, while the generals who ordered the attacks were promoted to the
> aristocracy.
>
> Gen. Billy Mitchell showed that airplanes can sink ships. He was court
> martialed for insubordination.
>
> An NRC field engineer repeatedly warned that Three Mile Island was
> vulnerable and that a stuck valve might trigger a catastrophe, because that
> nearly happened on two occasions. His superiors in the agency finally
> ordered him to shut up and stop filing reports. The valve stuck a third
> time, the reactor core melted . . . and he was fired while his superiors
> were promoted and given cash awards.
>
> No one was ever held to account for the fact that Iraq had no WMDs. Colin
> Powell wrote that he blames himself but I don't think he or anyone else
> lost status or was demoted, in a book titled "It Worked For Me," about
> "leadership advice." I gather the title and theme are not intended to be an
> ironic joke.
>
> "'A failure will always be attached to me and my U.N. presentation,'
> Powell writes in *It Worked For Me*, a book that provides leadership
> advice. 'I am mad mostly at myself for not having smelled the problem. My
> instincts failed me.'"
>
> The people who caused the 2008 market crash were rewarded with billions of
> dollars in profits and the biggest taxpayer bailout in history.
> (Fortunately, they paid most of the money back.) The banks are bigger than
> ever. Some of the people who warned against it were ignored and then blamed.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

It's my understanding that people in high demand in the media get paid for
> their appearances.  And they go on lecture tours, where the lecture fees
> paid to them can run into 6 figures per lecture.  That's how famous you
> could become.
>

That sounds like fun! But I have nothing good to say about anyone in the
establishment, so I doubt they will want to hear from me. You can go on Fox
News and attack the New York Times, or vice versa, but if you blame both of
them, neither will host you.

History shows that people say they want the unvarnished truth, and they say
they like to see the establishment brought down and fools suffer their
comeuppance, but that is not true.

Sen. William Smith uncovered the facts about the Titanic disaster and
reformed passenger safety. His was attacked by the industry and press, and
to be ridiculed and marginalized in nearly every book on the subject.

Young British officers showed that the commanders of World War I squandered
millions of lives with frontal attacks. They were vilified and forgotten,
while the generals who ordered the attacks were promoted to the
aristocracy.

Gen. Billy Mitchell showed that airplanes can sink ships. He was court
martialed for insubordination.

An NRC field engineer repeatedly warned that Three Mile Island was
vulnerable and that a stuck valve might trigger a catastrophe, because that
nearly happened on two occasions. His superiors in the agency finally
ordered him to shut up and stop filing reports. The valve stuck a third
time, the reactor core melted . . . and he was fired while his superiors
were promoted and given cash awards.

No one was ever held to account for the fact that Iraq had no WMDs. Colin
Powell wrote that he blames himself but I don't think he or anyone else
lost status or was demoted, in a book titled "It Worked For Me," about
"leadership advice." I gather the title and theme are not intended to be an
ironic joke.

"'A failure will always be attached to me and my U.N. presentation,' Powell
writes in *It Worked For Me*, a book that provides leadership advice. 'I am
mad mostly at myself for not having smelled the problem. My instincts
failed me.'"

The people who caused the 2008 market crash were rewarded with billions of
dollars in profits and the biggest taxpayer bailout in history.
(Fortunately, they paid most of the money back.) The banks are bigger than
ever. Some of the people who warned against it were ignored and then blamed.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

I tried a minor alteration of this report and got this error message:


 An error has been detected.  You have reached your quota limit. Please try
again later.

Basically, I'm not interested in metrics that aren't freely available on
the web.


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Eric, take a look at this:
>
>
> http://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=lenr%2C%20andrea%20rossi%2C%20e-cat&cmpt=q
>
> If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make historical
> highs, I think that's a good time to short.
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.
>>>
>>
>> The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
>> weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
>> that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
>> X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
>> will be the cause of much sadness.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

Uh, yeah... what he said.

He's just so much more eloquent than I am.   Mats Lewan wrote his book.  I
never heard of Mats before Rossi came on the scene.  I heard of Jed well
before that.

Write that book, Jed.  Before the media frenzy.  Because after the media
shark feeding festival starts, you won't have time.

I'll even help you, if I can.






On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

>  Jed sez:
>
>
>
> > I have often said I wish I had the movie rights to cold fusion,
>
> > but alas I do not.
>
>
>
> I assume you are being a little snarky here. In which case, who the hell
> does?
>
>
>
> In the meantime, what's stopping you from writing a personal account, one
> that is strategically sprinkled with convincing charts and graphs. Granted
> much of your "story" will likely contain anecdotal accounts, but IMHO that
> will make the telling of your story much more interesting than a cut and
> dry recounting of incidents and facts. You have met countless inventors &
> investors. You've talked to researchers, scientists, prima donnas, as well
> as a few whackos. You have also encountered detractors who live very high
> within the food chain of politics and influence, detractors who would love
> to kill CF as being a monumental waste of human resources - or perhaps they
> want to kill it for other selfish/vain reasons.
>
>
>
> You have managed to position yourself in a unique position of spending a
> huge amount of your personal time researching and reporting on this field.
> Most don't get such a unique privilege to dabble and prattle on for most of
> their lives on such matters. (The few that do, don't seem to give a rat's
> *ss about this subject. ) So, it's basically you, Jed. As a result of your
> relentless pursuit of this field, everyone who has two Cold Fusion nickels
> to rub between their fingers knows you too. Precious knowledge has been
> passed to you. My sense is that, in the aggregate sense, perhaps you more
> than anyone within this field has managed to acquire one of the best
> all-around general layman's assessment of how convincing, or not, the data
> really is.
>
>
>
> You don't think I wouldn't buy such a book from you - from Barnes & Noble?
> You don't think others wouldn't either?
>
>
>
> Yes, I said BUY.
>
>
>
> Jed, quit whining and do us all a favor and get it done before you die!
>
>
>
> PS: Pretty please? ;-)
>
>
>
> I'm sure someone will likely get around to making a movie based on your
> book, but most likely after we're all dead.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven Vincent Johnson
>
> svjart.orionworks.com
>

RE: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

Jed sez:

 

> I have often said I wish I had the movie rights to cold fusion,

> but alas I do not.

 

I assume you are being a little snarky here. In which case, who the hell does?

 

In the meantime, what's stopping you from writing a personal account, one that 
is strategically sprinkled with convincing charts and graphs. Granted much of 
your "story" will likely contain anecdotal accounts, but IMHO that will make 
the telling of your story much more interesting than a cut and dry recounting 
of incidents and facts. You have met countless inventors & investors. You've 
talked to researchers, scientists, prima donnas, as well as a few whackos. You 
have also encountered detractors who live very high within the food chain of 
politics and influence, detractors who would love to kill CF as being a 
monumental waste of human resources - or perhaps they want to kill it for other 
selfish/vain reasons. 

 

You have managed to position yourself in a unique position of spending a huge 
amount of your personal time researching and reporting on this field. Most 
don't get such a unique privilege to dabble and prattle on for most of their 
lives on such matters. (The few that do, don't seem to give a rat's *ss about 
this subject. ) So, it's basically you, Jed. As a result of your relentless 
pursuit of this field, everyone who has two Cold Fusion nickels to rub between 
their fingers knows you too. Precious knowledge has been passed to you. My 
sense is that, in the aggregate sense, perhaps you more than anyone within this 
field has managed to acquire one of the best all-around general layman's 
assessment of how convincing, or not, the data really is.

 

You don't think I wouldn't buy such a book from you - from Barnes & Noble? You 
don't think others wouldn't either? 

 

Yes, I said BUY.

 

Jed, quit whining and do us all a favor and get it done before you die! 

 

PS: Pretty please? ;-)

 

I'm sure someone will likely get around to making a movie based on your book, 
but most likely after we're all dead.

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

svjart.orionworks.com

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

It's my understanding that people in high demand in the media get paid for
their appearances.  And they go on lecture tours, where the lecture fees
paid to them can run into 6 figures per lecture.  That's how famous you
could become.  You could also close off Lenr-canr.org to all but paying
members, like Krivit tried to do.  You could write another book.  It
doesn't have to be technical, it's just the back stories that people like
to hear -- like how crotchety Dr. Arata was (assuming he would be gone by
the time you write the book) or how defkalion didn't pay you $1400.  And
then there's consulting, like what Dr. Kim is doing for Cyclone Power.  How
much do you think Capstone Turbine would pay you to bring them up to speed
on current thinking within the CF community.  You are about to become a hot
commodity.  I hope.


On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
> I want their money, not a mass media circus they might trigger.
>> ***Jed, I like to think you are probably one of the few that will
>> financially benefit from such a mass media circus.
>>
>
> How?!? Tell me how I might make a buck from this.
>
> I have often said I wish I had the movie rights to cold fusion, but alas I
> do not.
>
> - Jed
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

I want their money, not a mass media circus they might trigger.
> ***Jed, I like to think you are probably one of the few that will
> financially benefit from such a mass media circus.
>

How?!? Tell me how I might make a buck from this.

I have often said I wish I had the movie rights to cold fusion, but alas I
do not.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

I strongly recommend the book "The Innovator's Dilemma." I discussed in my
book.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

Interesting point.  I was not aware of that aspect of their development.
Are they trying to be so oil-independent that they refuse to use it as a
lubricant?  That would be stupid.


On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
> > CYPW: 10%
> > ***Unhealthy penny stock due to development money starvation.  In the
> past
> > it has seen a  >100x spike based upon conventional news.  Dr. Yeong Kim
> > consults with them. If this black swan event does not happen in 2 years,
> > this company probably will be bankrupt unless it can produce a reliable
> > engine.
>
> I don't think you can make a reliable engine which uses water as a
> lubricant.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Terry Blanton]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> CYPW: 10%
> ***Unhealthy penny stock due to development money starvation.  In the past
> it has seen a  >100x spike based upon conventional news.  Dr. Yeong Kim
> consults with them. If this black swan event does not happen in 2 years,
> this company probably will be bankrupt unless it can produce a reliable
> engine.

I don't think you can make a reliable engine which uses water as a lubricant.

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

I don't think CPST will be pissing off their customers by jumping on CF
when it breaks out.  It will be their customers who will be pissing off the
oil & gas industry.

When hard drive manufacturers started selling to PC vendors, they didn't
stop selling to minicomputer vendors.  They just stopped development in
that area and focused on microcomputing needs.  It wasn't about pissing off
their customers, it was about their previous customers no longer funding
their projects and the new ones moving faster & taking what they could
get.  As a company, you either migrated with the sea change or you died.
Simple disruptive technology issue.


 The Innovator's Dilemma: When New Technologies Cause Great Firms to Fail
(Management of Innovation and Change)
 by  Clayton M. Christensen

(Author)

http://www.amazon.com/The-Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Management/dp/142219602X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1401597910&sr=8-2&keywords=the+innovators+dilemma




On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> I'm going to remove CPST from the portfolio.  They are in bed with the oil
> & gas industry.  I think they will piss off their customers if they jump on
> CF.
> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 50%
> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
> CYPW: 20%
>
> I agree we need to find more companies that make thermocouples and
> sterling type devices.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> Here's a possible portfolio so far:
>>
>> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
>> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
>> CPST: 10%
>> CYPW: 10%
>>
>> Entry will occur on a combination of google trends and when these
>> equities make coordinated movements that aren't influenced by other factors
>> such as general market conditions.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

You're right, even better.  They're trading at about $1.50/share.




On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> "CPST: 10%
> ***Reasonably healthy penny stock that should be reasonably healthy in 2
> years + 1 day.  "
>
> CPST is listed on the nasdaq with a 496.52M market cap.  They are not a
> penny stock.
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting portfolio.  There's a couple of hitches in yer giddyup.
>>
>>
>> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
>> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
>> ***I dunno how to do put options, and if the breakout comes in 2 years +
>> 1 day, you lost everything without the benefit of what you were actually
>> betting on.
>>
>>
>> CPST: 10%
>> ***Reasonably healthy penny stock that should be reasonably healthy in 2
>> years + 1 day.
>>
>> CYPW: 10%
>> ***Unhealthy penny stock due to development money starvation.  In the
>> past it has seen a  >100x spike based upon conventional news.  Dr. Yeong
>> Kim consults with them. If this black swan event does not happen in 2
>> years, this company probably will be bankrupt unless it can produce a
>> reliable engine.
>>
>> My approach has been 100% CYPW, but that's based upon the prior research
>> I did, some personal deadlines,  and not knowing about CPST.
>>
>>  My recommendation for Vorticians is a less risky approach of 60% CPST,
>> 20% CYPW , and 20% whatever else presents itself as an opportunity such as
>> publicly traded companies that sell desalination plants.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a possible portfolio so far:
>>>
>>> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
>>> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
>>> CPST: 10%
>>> CYPW: 10%
>>>
>>> Entry will occur on a combination of google trends and when these
>>> equities make coordinated movements that aren't influenced by other factors
>>> such as general market conditions.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

"CPST: 10%
***Reasonably healthy penny stock that should be reasonably healthy in 2
years + 1 day.  "

CPST is listed on the nasdaq with a 496.52M market cap.  They are not a
penny stock.


On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> Interesting portfolio.  There's a couple of hitches in yer giddyup.
>
>
> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
> ***I dunno how to do put options, and if the breakout comes in 2 years + 1
> day, you lost everything without the benefit of what you were actually
> betting on.
>
>
> CPST: 10%
> ***Reasonably healthy penny stock that should be reasonably healthy in 2
> years + 1 day.
>
> CYPW: 10%
> ***Unhealthy penny stock due to development money starvation.  In the past
> it has seen a  >100x spike based upon conventional news.  Dr. Yeong Kim
> consults with them. If this black swan event does not happen in 2 years,
> this company probably will be bankrupt unless it can produce a reliable
> engine.
>
> My approach has been 100% CYPW, but that's based upon the prior research I
> did, some personal deadlines,  and not knowing about CPST.
>
>  My recommendation for Vorticians is a less risky approach of 60% CPST,
> 20% CYPW , and 20% whatever else presents itself as an opportunity such as
> publicly traded companies that sell desalination plants.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> Here's a possible portfolio so far:
>>
>> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
>> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
>> CPST: 10%
>> CYPW: 10%
>>
>> Entry will occur on a combination of google trends and when these
>> equities make coordinated movements that aren't influenced by other factors
>> such as general market conditions.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

I'm going to remove CPST from the portfolio.  They are in bed with the oil
& gas industry.  I think they will piss off their customers if they jump on
CF.
FSLR Put Options (2 years): 50%
XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
CYPW: 20%

I agree we need to find more companies that make thermocouples and sterling
type devices.




On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Here's a possible portfolio so far:
>
> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
> CPST: 10%
> CYPW: 10%
>
> Entry will occur on a combination of google trends and when these equities
> make coordinated movements that aren't influenced by other factors such as
> general market conditions.
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

Interesting portfolio.  There's a couple of hitches in yer giddyup.


FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
***I dunno how to do put options, and if the breakout comes in 2 years + 1
day, you lost everything without the benefit of what you were actually
betting on.


CPST: 10%
***Reasonably healthy penny stock that should be reasonably healthy in 2
years + 1 day.

CYPW: 10%
***Unhealthy penny stock due to development money starvation.  In the past
it has seen a  >100x spike based upon conventional news.  Dr. Yeong Kim
consults with them. If this black swan event does not happen in 2 years,
this company probably will be bankrupt unless it can produce a reliable
engine.

My approach has been 100% CYPW, but that's based upon the prior research I
did, some personal deadlines,  and not knowing about CPST.

 My recommendation for Vorticians is a less risky approach of 60% CPST, 20%
CYPW , and 20% whatever else presents itself as an opportunity such as
publicly traded companies that sell desalination plants.






On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Here's a possible portfolio so far:
>
> FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
> XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
> CPST: 10%
> CYPW: 10%
>
> Entry will occur on a combination of google trends and when these equities
> make coordinated movements that aren't influenced by other factors such as
> general market conditions.
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

 I want their money, not a mass media circus they might trigger.
***Jed, I like to think you are probably one of the few that will
financially benefit from such a mass media circus.


On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Patrick Ellul  wrote:
>
>
>> But remember the chain:
>>
>> Rossi -> Tom Darden (Cherokee/IH) -> Bill McDonough ( Cherokee/McDonough 
>> Challenge)
>> ->Larry Page, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, Jimmy Wales etc
>>
>
> Yup. That is who I had in mind. So far there is nothing in the mass media.
> I suppose those people are keeping a low profile. That's fine with me. I
> want their money, not a mass media circus they might trigger.
>
> Jimmy Wales, yuch! The others are fine. Jimmy rubs me the wrong way. It
> would be ironic if he had a positive influence on this field, given all
> trouble Wikipedia has caused us. Make no mistake, it does cause trouble.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

"Are you here to make a buck on fellow vorticians?"

Yes

***Then my criticism of you is justified.

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Here's a possible portfolio so far:

FSLR Put Options (2 years): 60%
XOM Put Options (2 years): 20%
CPST: 10%
CYPW: 10%

Entry will occur on a combination of google trends and when these equities
make coordinated movements that aren't influenced by other factors such as
general market conditions.

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make historical
>> highs, I think that's a good time to short.
>>
>
> I'm less confident on getting the timing right for a breakout development
> than you.
>

Yes, there is always risk of course, profit without risk is not possible -
but you can always reduce the risk through careful study.

It's important to short before the market in general recognizes what's
going on.   I'm not looking to get in at the time of the breakout, just
before the breakout and knowing that a breakout will come within 2 years.
 Considering there was no explosion of interest when the last results came
in, I believe if there is one this time it will indicate real penetration.

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Patrick Ellul  wrote:


> But remember the chain:
>
> Rossi -> Tom Darden (Cherokee/IH) -> Bill McDonough ( Cherokee/McDonough 
> Challenge)
> ->Larry Page, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, Jimmy Wales etc
>

Yup. That is who I had in mind. So far there is nothing in the mass media.
I suppose those people are keeping a low profile. That's fine with me. I
want their money, not a mass media circus they might trigger.

Jimmy Wales, yuch! The others are fine. Jimmy rubs me the wrong way. It
would be ironic if he had a positive influence on this field, given all
trouble Wikipedia has caused us. Make no mistake, it does cause trouble.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Patrick Ellul]

You are so right Jed. (not that it means anything from me)

But remember the chain:

Rossi -> Tom Darden (Cherokee/IH) -> Bill McDonough (
Cherokee/McDonough Challenge)
->Larry Page, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, Jimmy Wales etc

see:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HO64ew8KwyUfNz-RD63k69MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0

So there is hope.

Thanks to Frank Acland for re-digging that link.

Regards.

Patrick



On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Eric Walker  wrote:
>
> I'm less confident on getting the timing right for a breakout development
>> than you.  Even if we saw a spike of interest comparable to the one shown
>> for the first Elforsk test, I very much doubt there will be more publicity
>> following upon it than happened the last time.
>>
>
> I agree. I doubt that ELFORSK wants people to know, other than the small
> circle of people who follow this field. I doubt they will keep the paper
> secret. They probably couldn't; it would leak. I expect them to publish at
> arXiv again.
>
>
>
>> Even if the test results are stellar, I do not think they would cause a
>> movement in the oil markets at this point.
>>
>
> If stellar results could have any effect on public opinion or industry,
> the whole world would have believed in cold fusion after McKubre published.
> Experts such as Gerisher and later Duncan looked at the data and were
> instantly convinced. Fully replicated, high sigma, top quality experimental
> proof from hundreds of world class laboratories plus $18 will buy you a 30
> Hershey Bars at Amazon.com. That is all it is good for.
>
>
>
>>  If I had to guess, there would need to be three or four credible,
>> completely independent reproductions that were given high degree of
>> visibility in the mainstream media before cold fusion is even sufficiently
>> funded.
>>
>
> The mainstream media would never publish any report, no matter how
> convincing. Not from ELFORSK, EPRI or any other power company organization.
> The physics establishment will say that power companies know nothing about
> nuclear physics so they must be wrong. The mass media will only report on
> what the physics establishment blesses.
>
> Other than that, the mass media would only report:
>
> 1. A famous mogul such as Bill Gates is funding cold fusion OR
>
> 2. A commercial cold fusion device has actually gone sale.
>
> Anything less newsworthy will never see the light of day.
>
> That does not matter much. We do not not need the mass media. What we need
> is money, from someone like Gates, and we need experiments that work.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Eric Walker  wrote:

I'm less confident on getting the timing right for a breakout development
> than you.  Even if we saw a spike of interest comparable to the one shown
> for the first Elforsk test, I very much doubt there will be more publicity
> following upon it than happened the last time.
>

I agree. I doubt that ELFORSK wants people to know, other than the small
circle of people who follow this field. I doubt they will keep the paper
secret. They probably couldn't; it would leak. I expect them to publish at
arXiv again.



> Even if the test results are stellar, I do not think they would cause a
> movement in the oil markets at this point.
>

If stellar results could have any effect on public opinion or industry, the
whole world would have believed in cold fusion after McKubre published.
Experts such as Gerisher and later Duncan looked at the data and were
instantly convinced. Fully replicated, high sigma, top quality experimental
proof from hundreds of world class laboratories plus $18 will buy you a 30
Hershey Bars at Amazon.com. That is all it is good for.



>  If I had to guess, there would need to be three or four credible,
> completely independent reproductions that were given high degree of
> visibility in the mainstream media before cold fusion is even sufficiently
> funded.
>

The mainstream media would never publish any report, no matter how
convincing. Not from ELFORSK, EPRI or any other power company organization.
The physics establishment will say that power companies know nothing about
nuclear physics so they must be wrong. The mass media will only report on
what the physics establishment blesses.

Other than that, the mass media would only report:

1. A famous mogul such as Bill Gates is funding cold fusion OR

2. A commercial cold fusion device has actually gone sale.

Anything less newsworthy will never see the light of day.

That does not matter much. We do not not need the mass media. What we need
is money, from someone like Gates, and we need experiments that work.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:


> Some people though, I guesss, for whatever bizarre reasons I'll never
> understand -   profoundly believe they don't deserve it.
>

Goodness gracious! Who do you have in mind? Tell them to send me their
share of the moola.

When they gave Martin Fleischmann a medal at an ICCF conference, he turned
to me and said something like: "this is the only recognition I have ever
gotten out of cold fusion, other than a swift kick in the butt."

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make historical
> highs, I think that's a good time to short.
>

I'm less confident on getting the timing right for a breakout development
than you.  Even if we saw a spike of interest comparable to the one shown
for the first Elforsk test, I very much doubt there will be more publicity
following upon it than happened the last time.  Even if the test results
are stellar, I do not think they would cause a movement in the oil markets
at this point.  If I had to guess, there would need to be three or four
credible, completely independent reproductions that were given high degree
of visibility in the mainstream media before cold fusion is even
sufficiently funded.  And then only after the implications of the new
technology became apparent to risk-averse pension managers would you start
to see some kind of downward movement in oil stocks.  Just my random,
uninformed guess.

Only indirectly relevant to this, there is word that Rossi has been seen in
Sweden.  This isn't necessarily a positive development, although it could
be benign.  What if the E-Cat became quiescent at some point, and he was
there to try to kickstart it again?

Eric

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

"Are you here to make a buck on fellow vorticians?"

Yes, but I'd like to think everyone here can share in the wealth if they
were paying attention.  Certainly they deserve it.

Some people though, I guesss, for whatever bizarre reasons I'll never
understand -   profoundly believe they don't deserve it.



On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Jed Rothwell 
wrote:

> Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
>
>> > Nuh-uh. It is 7.64%. You forgot to take into account the Coriolis
>> effect on
>> > this year's election cycle.
>>
>> I think you rounded up when you should have rounded down.  I get 7.63%.
>>  ;-)
>>
>
> You must be in Australia.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Terry Blanton  wrote:


> > Nuh-uh. It is 7.64%. You forgot to take into account the Coriolis effect
> on
> > this year's election cycle.
>
> I think you rounded up when you should have rounded down.  I get 7.63%.
>  ;-)
>

You must be in Australia.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Terry Blanton]

On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
>>
>> Looks like I'll need to revise my estimate downwards, YET AGAIN, that
>> Blaze will pull it out.  Down to 7.88%.
>
>
> Nuh-uh. It is 7.64%. You forgot to take into account the Coriolis effect on
> this year's election cycle.

I think you rounded up when you should have rounded down.  I get 7.63%.  ;-)

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:


> Looks like I'll need to revise my estimate downwards, YET AGAIN, that
> Blaze will pull it out.  Down to 7.88%.
>

Nuh-uh. It is 7.64%. You forgot to take into account the Coriolis effect on
this year's election cycle.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

You've been trying to milk Vortex members since you first arrived.
Otherwise, you would have explained how to short long ago.  Not only did
you shy away from your original 10:1 odds that I jumped at, but you haven't
done anything to further vortician interests since you've been aboard.

Otherwise, you'd have gone to your original thread and answered every
contention put towards you.

You won't do that on that thread, you won't do it on this thread, you won't
do it here nor there.  You won't do it anywhere, BlazeIam.





On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Ok sure, not really we, but rather "vortex".  There's a group of  folks of
> vortex that I feel are fairly credible / not gullible.  They reacted very
> smartly to defkalion, so I'll be looking to their reaction to this report
> carefully.
>
> They have a track record of being correct which is what bayesian analysis
> relies on.
>
> I've shorted stocks in my time.  I'm pretty familiar with the strategy &
> mechanics of buying put options, for example.
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
>> "If we decide"  Exactly how is that supposed to play out in your
>> mind?
>>
>> And note that you overlook (so far) entirely the mechanics & how-to's of
>> shorting oil, Exxon, Solar, or anything else.  It has been posted before,
>> on your own thread... that you have abandoned.
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93568.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you here to obfuscate?  Are you here to make a buck on fellow
>> vorticians?  Why did you abandon the previous thread on Vortex that covered
>> most of the same ground?  Why did you offer 10:1 odds when you first
>> arrived and now you're at 2:1 odds which is about the same as any ordinary
>> technical project?  What are you trying to establish?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric, take a look at this:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=lenr%2C%20andrea%20rossi%2C%20e-cat&cmpt=q
>>>
>>> If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make
>>> historical highs, I think that's a good time to short.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.
>

 The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
 weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
 that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
 X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
 will be the cause of much sadness.

 Eric


>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Ok sure, not really we, but rather "vortex".  There's a group of  folks of
vortex that I feel are fairly credible / not gullible.  They reacted very
smartly to defkalion, so I'll be looking to their reaction to this report
carefully.

They have a track record of being correct which is what bayesian analysis
relies on.

I've shorted stocks in my time.  I'm pretty familiar with the strategy &
mechanics of buying put options, for example.


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
wrote:

> "If we decide"  Exactly how is that supposed to play out in your
> mind?
>
> And note that you overlook (so far) entirely the mechanics & how-to's of
> shorting oil, Exxon, Solar, or anything else.  It has been posted before,
> on your own thread... that you have abandoned.
> http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93568.html
>
>
>
> Are you here to obfuscate?  Are you here to make a buck on fellow
> vorticians?  Why did you abandon the previous thread on Vortex that covered
> most of the same ground?  Why did you offer 10:1 odds when you first
> arrived and now you're at 2:1 odds which is about the same as any ordinary
> technical project?  What are you trying to establish?
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Eric, take a look at this:
>>
>>
>> http://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=lenr%2C%20andrea%20rossi%2C%20e-cat&cmpt=q
>>
>> If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make
>> historical highs, I think that's a good time to short.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.

>>>
>>> The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
>>> weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
>>> that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
>>> X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
>>> will be the cause of much sadness.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

"If we decide"  Exactly how is that supposed to play out in your mind?

And note that you overlook (so far) entirely the mechanics & how-to's of
shorting oil, Exxon, Solar, or anything else.  It has been posted before,
on your own thread... that you have abandoned.
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93568.html



Are you here to obfuscate?  Are you here to make a buck on fellow
vorticians?  Why did you abandon the previous thread on Vortex that covered
most of the same ground?  Why did you offer 10:1 odds when you first
arrived and now you're at 2:1 odds which is about the same as any ordinary
technical project?  What are you trying to establish?




On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Eric, take a look at this:
>
>
> http://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=lenr%2C%20andrea%20rossi%2C%20e-cat&cmpt=q
>
> If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make historical
> highs, I think that's a good time to short.
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.
>>>
>>
>> The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
>> weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
>> that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
>> X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
>> will be the cause of much sadness.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Eric, take a look at this:

http://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=lenr%2C%20andrea%20rossi%2C%20e-cat&cmpt=q

If we decide the report is fully credible and those graphs make historical
highs, I think that's a good time to short.


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
> Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.
>>
>
> The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
> weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
> that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
> X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
> will be the cause of much sadness.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

I probably inferred too much by thinking that there are rumors about cold
fusion circulating among a wider audience,
***I would hope there's a wider audience, such as among the decision makers
at the X prize committee like Peter Diamandis.  But I doubt it.   There's a
lack of true scientific thinking at that level; it becomes quite
politically sensitive.   I gave it a try, and it reflects back even on
Vortex as "rumors".


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
> ***What rumors are those?  Is this the same X prize popularity contest
>> that I submitted was exactly the same as my FQXI essay about the LENR
>> incentive prize?
>>
>
> I had in mind this quote from a link you shared [1] two days ago:
>
> After participating in a dramatic voting system that involved 3-D printed
>> poker chips and glowsticks, the winner was declared: The Forbidden Energy
>> XPrize for generating energy from an entirely new source, like cold fusion
>> or zero point energy.
>
>
> I probably inferred too much by thinking that there are rumors about cold
> fusion circulating among a wider audience, although it's hard to imagine
> the idea of generating energy from a new source arising spontaneously
> without further context.  So maybe my inference was ok.
>
> Eric
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.fastcoexist.com/3030775/thinking-big-is-the-easy-part-my-weekend-dreaming-up-the-next-xprize
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Kevin O'Malley 
wrote:

***What rumors are those?  Is this the same X prize popularity contest that
> I submitted was exactly the same as my FQXI essay about the LENR incentive
> prize?
>

I had in mind this quote from a link you shared [1] two days ago:

After participating in a dramatic voting system that involved 3-D printed
> poker chips and glowsticks, the winner was declared: The Forbidden Energy
> XPrize for generating energy from an entirely new source, like cold fusion
> or zero point energy.


I probably inferred too much by thinking that there are rumors about cold
fusion circulating among a wider audience, although it's hard to imagine
the idea of generating energy from a new source arising spontaneously
without further context.  So maybe my inference was ok.

Eric


[1]
http://www.fastcoexist.com/3030775/thinking-big-is-the-easy-part-my-weekend-dreaming-up-the-next-xprize

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

>(Note that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection
> with the X Prize.)  A year or two after?
>

***What rumors are those?  Is this the same X prize popularity contest that
I submitted was exactly the same as my FQXI essay about the LENR incentive
prize?

https://*fqxi*.org/community/forum/topic/2024

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

Yup.  Blaze ignored that issue as well on his own thread.  I imagine he'll
ignore it on this thread as well.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93568.html


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
> Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.
>>
>
> The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
> weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
> that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
> X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
> will be the cause of much sadness.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

Start shorting any of the alt energy plays.
>

The challenge with short selling is when to start?  Immediately?  A few
weeks or months after news of cold fusion is starting to spread?  (Note
that rumors already appear to be circulating, e.g., in connection with the
X Prize.)  A year or two after?  If one starts a short sale too early, it
will be the cause of much sadness.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

So of all the things to focus on in that post, Blaze chooses to pick gnat
shit out of pepper.  Looks like I'll need to revise my estimate downwards,
YET AGAIN, that Blaze will pull it out.  Down to 7.88%.

Does Blaze want to further LENR or its advocates?  Only his hairdresser
knows for sure.


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> Price weighted volume  for CYPW is not 5x avg, it's less than 1x
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Kevin O'Malley 
> wrote:
>
>> I went for CYPW, Cyclone Power.  Dr. Kim consults for them.  They're an
>> unhealthy penny stock so it's real cheap with a high upside potential.
>> Today's volume was 5Million shares, about triple the usual.
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps Capstone Turbine would be a better
>> choice:
>> CPST
>>
>> On the plus side, they have product that they sell, more than $100M
>> revenues.  Reasonably healthy company.
>>
>> http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cpst/charts?symb=CPST&countrycode=US&time=13&startdate=1%2F4%2F1999&enddate=5%2F16%2F2014&freq=1&compidx=none&compind=none&comptemptext=Enter+Symbol%28s%29&comp=none&uf=7168&ma=1&maval=50&lf=1&lf2=4&lf3=0&type=2&size=2&style=1013
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, all of this was discussed on Blaze's previous thread which he
>> seems to have abandoned.
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93531.html
>>
>> So I'll revise my estimate downwards yet again that Blaze will pull his
>> head out -- down to 8%.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to use this subject thread for ideas I have for my eCat
>>> Porfolio.  Basically investment opportunities which will profit if the
>>> report comes out to be a full throated vindication of Rossi.
>>>
>>> HydroFusion - interesting, but very very weird.  You'd think he'd ask
>>> for money AFTER the report came out.   Very suspicious that's he's asking
>>> for money BEFORE it comes out.
>>>
>>> Short on FSLR - if cold fusion is totally viable with massively high
>>> COP, than alt energy is dead dead DEAD.  Start shorting any of the alt
>>> energy plays.
>>>
>>> Short on XOM?  I think generally yes.  Their Oil and Gas will long term
>>> not play out.
>>>
>>> If other ideas come to me, I'll post here.   Always interested in
>>> hearing other thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Price weighted volume  for CYPW is not 5x avg, it's less than 1x


On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> I went for CYPW, Cyclone Power.  Dr. Kim consults for them.  They're an
> unhealthy penny stock so it's real cheap with a high upside potential.
> Today's volume was 5Million shares, about triple the usual.
>
>
>
> Perhaps Capstone Turbine would be a better
> choice:
> CPST
>
> On the plus side, they have product that they sell, more than $100M
> revenues.  Reasonably healthy company.
>
> http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cpst/charts?symb=CPST&countrycode=US&time=13&startdate=1%2F4%2F1999&enddate=5%2F16%2F2014&freq=1&compidx=none&compind=none&comptemptext=Enter+Symbol%28s%29&comp=none&uf=7168&ma=1&maval=50&lf=1&lf2=4&lf3=0&type=2&size=2&style=1013
>
>
>
> Of course, all of this was discussed on Blaze's previous thread which he
> seems to have abandoned.
> http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93531.html
>
> So I'll revise my estimate downwards yet again that Blaze will pull his
> head out -- down to 8%.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> I'm going to use this subject thread for ideas I have for my eCat
>> Porfolio.  Basically investment opportunities which will profit if the
>> report comes out to be a full throated vindication of Rossi.
>>
>> HydroFusion - interesting, but very very weird.  You'd think he'd ask for
>> money AFTER the report came out.   Very suspicious that's he's asking for
>> money BEFORE it comes out.
>>
>> Short on FSLR - if cold fusion is totally viable with massively high COP,
>> than alt energy is dead dead DEAD.  Start shorting any of the alt energy
>> plays.
>>
>> Short on XOM?  I think generally yes.  Their Oil and Gas will long term
>> not play out.
>>
>> If other ideas come to me, I'll post here.   Always interested in hearing
>> other thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Kevin O'Malley]

I went for CYPW, Cyclone Power.  Dr. Kim consults for them.  They're an
unhealthy penny stock so it's real cheap with a high upside potential.
Today's volume was 5Million shares, about triple the usual.



Perhaps Capstone Turbine would be a better
choice:
CPST

On the plus side, they have product that they sell, more than $100M
revenues.  Reasonably healthy company.

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/cpst/charts?symb=CPST&countrycode=US&time=13&startdate=1%2F4%2F1999&enddate=5%2F16%2F2014&freq=1&compidx=none&compind=none&comptemptext=Enter+Symbol%28s%29&comp=none&uf=7168&ma=1&maval=50&lf=1&lf2=4&lf3=0&type=2&size=2&style=1013



Of course, all of this was discussed on Blaze's previous thread which he
seems to have abandoned.
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg93531.html

So I'll revise my estimate downwards yet again that Blaze will pull his
head out -- down to 8%.




On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

> I'm going to use this subject thread for ideas I have for my eCat
> Porfolio.  Basically investment opportunities which will profit if the
> report comes out to be a full throated vindication of Rossi.
>
> HydroFusion - interesting, but very very weird.  You'd think he'd ask for
> money AFTER the report came out.   Very suspicious that's he's asking for
> money BEFORE it comes out.
>
> Short on FSLR - if cold fusion is totally viable with massively high COP,
> than alt energy is dead dead DEAD.  Start shorting any of the alt energy
> plays.
>
> Short on XOM?  I think generally yes.  Their Oil and Gas will long term
> not play out.
>
> If other ideas come to me, I'll post here.   Always interested in hearing
> other thoughts.
>
>
>
>

[Vo]:eCat Portfolio

[Blaze Spinnaker]

I'm going to use this subject thread for ideas I have for my eCat Porfolio.
 Basically investment opportunities which will profit if the report comes
out to be a full throated vindication of Rossi.

HydroFusion - interesting, but very very weird.  You'd think he'd ask for
money AFTER the report came out.   Very suspicious that's he's asking for
money BEFORE it comes out.

Short on FSLR - if cold fusion is totally viable with massively high COP,
than alt energy is dead dead DEAD.  Start shorting any of the alt energy
plays.

Short on XOM?  I think generally yes.  Their Oil and Gas will long term not
play out.

If other ideas come to me, I'll post here.   Always interested in hearing
other thoughts.

[Vo]:ECAT Computer Model Calibration

[David Roberson]

A few days ago I speculated that a COP of at most two would be measured for an 
ECAT that undergoes only one power pulse starting from a cold state.  Both of 
the table top sized box demonstrations performed by Rossi essentially operated 
in this manner and there seems to be plenty of controversy expressed by the 
skeptics as to the actual energy delivered.   Having been told by Rossi that 
his ECAT operates with a COP of six specification they were expecting to 
measure six times as much output energy as applied electrical input energy.  I 
was also expecting performance of this nature because at the time I had not 
generated a computer model utilizing a thermal control technique.

Placement of thermocouples by Rossi were less than optimum which left a 
question as to how much energy was actually being measured by the output 
instrumentation.  This cloud remained over the demonstrations, in my opinion, 
and allowed doubt to exist as to whether or not he achieved his COP of six 
specification.   I have since constructed a thermal energy controlled computer 
model of the ECAT that can be operated with a COP of six as Rossi insists.  The 
model typically operates with a duty cycle of 1/3 to 1/4 depending upon how 
close I allow the core temperature to approach the thermal runaway level.  I 
have also observed that essentially all of the information attributed to Rossi 
within his journal describing operation of the ECAT fits the model.

I realized that I had not discussed calibration runs for my model to show that 
it can handle the case where the core is thermally inactive.  I overlooked the 
importance of adding that information to my other post which should add 
credibility to the model predictions.  Today I made another series of computer 
model runs and can report that I obtain a COP of approximately .995 under the 
inactive core condition.  The expected value would be exactly 1, but my model 
does cease operation before every morsel of energy has been collected at the 
output node and there are typical rounding errors.

The model is based upon many assumptions and for this reason can not be as 
accurate as I would prefer.  I have relied upon the statements that Rossi has 
slowly leaked to the public and there is little doubt that he is leaving out 
some of the important parameters effecting operation of his ECAT device.  Also, 
to generate a model of any sort I have had to choose a function representing 
the thermal power generated by the core as temperature changes.  My choice is a 
forth order relationship for this series of runs and changing that function 
impacts the critical behavior of the device but not its general nature.

The main point I wish to convey is that a one shot ECAT demonstration run will 
not be closely indicative of what is to be expected during continuous 
operation.  One should not expect to see a high level of performance (COP) 
unless the ECAT operates for a significant number of hot power cycles.  Some 
day soon I hope to compare his actual verified ECAT operation to the 
predictions of my latest model and to have an opportunity to adjust the 
parameters for a better fit.

Dave  

[Vo]:ECAT COP with One Power Pulse

[David Roberson]

There seems to be a great deal of contraversy related to the actual COP 
demonstrated by Rossi during his public tests.  I especially recall the two 
that used the table top cubic device that he plans to place within his megawatt 
shipping model.

Several of us made attempts to calculate the thermal energy being delivered to 
the load and had various degrees of success.  The input electrical energy was 
relatively easy to calculate since Rossi supplied us with the drive waveforms, 
but the thermal energy being delivered from the unit was not obvious.

With this issue in mind, I was wondering how my latest computer model of the 
ECAT would perform under similar conditions.  The results from the runs are 
intuitive and I felt that it should be reported.  One observation that stands 
out is the relatively small value of COP that is obtained during a single input 
power pulse run.If a steady series of like pulses are applied to the ECAT 
it will result in a net COP that can readily average the 6 value that Rossi 
claims.   Maintaining this COP is not trivial under the best of circumstances, 
but good control technique can accompolish the task.

A COP of the value that Rossi plans to deliver in production (6) requires him 
to push the core temperature to a degree that is relatively close to the 
thermal runaway limit according to the model.  The close proximity to the run 
away point enables the temperature decay process an opportunity to delay its 
transition downward.  That delay is the key to delivery of a high COP.

If instead of continuous operation you only desire one input drive cycle then 
the period during which you heat the box up to operational temperature is 
wasted to a great extent.  Much of the input energy is applied during a time 
when the core is cool and not exhibiting any major positive feedback.That 
ensures that this initial heat merely becomes transferred to the output without 
much boosting.

So, when the wasted input energy is taken into consideration and only one drive 
toward the thermal run away threshold is enacted, the model predicts that the 
overall COP would be around 2.  Compare this to the COP of 6 that would be 
obtained under continuous input drive pulse conditions that Rossi describes.   
I use his published duty cycle (1/3 to 1/4) as the input waveform for my model.

With this result in hand, it is easy to understand why the skeptics complain 
about the overall demonstration.   This gives them plenty of opportunity to 
suggest that the COP is actually unity and it certainly would not be 6.  A low 
COP is going to be generated unless a much longer test is conducted with a 
tight power control process.

Dave

RE: [Vo]:ECAT 1MW plant is now available

[OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

>From Jed:

> Here is another report of the 1 MW reactor going on sale. I don't know why
> this has come up now. Perhaps the web page was renewed and caught people's
> attention?

>
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171660-1-megawatt-cold-fusion-power-plant
-now-available-yours-for-just-1-5-million

I assume that, as far as anyone on this list can tell, there is no new news
here. Just a rehash.  Or am I mistaken on that assumption.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
svjart.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/newvortex/

Re: [Vo]:ECAT 1MW plant is now available

[ChemE Stewart]

Just in time for Christmas?


On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Here is another report of the 1 MW reactor going on sale. I don't know why
> this has come up now. Perhaps the web page was renewed and caught people's
> attention?
>
>
> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171660-1-megawatt-cold-fusion-power-plant-now-available-yours-for-just-1-5-million
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:ECAT 1MW plant is now available

[Jed Rothwell]

Here is another report of the 1 MW reactor going on sale. I don't know why
this has come up now. Perhaps the web page was renewed and caught people's
attention?

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171660-1-megawatt-cold-fusion-power-plant-now-available-yours-for-just-1-5-million

- Jed