Wil Sinclair wrote:
>Thanks for bringing me up, MZMcBride; should get a lot more people to look
>at those IRC logs I was hoping to bring to everyone's attention.
I'm looking forward to your posts about the current and upcoming Wikimedia
Foundation strategic plans. That's why you came on IRC,
Please drop this thread / subject. Concentrate on issues not people.
Regards, Richard.
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It is hard to tell what thread you refer to when the thread is gone.
Cheers,
Peter
-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Ames
Sent: Friday, 20 November 2015 9:51 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l
Wil Sinclair wrote:
>With all due respect, no more of my time will be spent on this forum
>whatsoever.
>
>I'm not at all comfortable with the direction that this thread has
>taken. If my asking earnest questions makes anyone feel "unsafe" and
>leads to requests to block me (yes, both things were
No, I'm right here. Standing up for what I believe in, just like I stand up
for the principles I value everywhere, including IRC, on-wiki, and off-. It
seems y'all know where to find my opinion. So, if you're interested, go
look. If you're not, then feel free to just put me down here, as per the
hi Wil,
reading through this thread is already a challenge :) I want to write that
I really appreciate your enthusiasm and energy. It is really awesome that
you care about Wikimedia and that you do not shy away from a discussion.
As several participants have pointed out, some of the veterans may
For the record, I take any safety issues concerning both staff and
volunteers extremely seriously. In the case of a threatening message left
on an employee's talk page, GorillaWarfare took immediate action, for which
I am very grateful. And I am grateful to see this kind of community at work.
Hi Wil,
I think the advice in this thread from John and Dariusz is excellent, and
well worth taking on board.
Energy is good, and disruption to shake us out of our status quo is good.
But at the moment, your communication style is swamping this list and
that's getting people's backs up. The
With all due respect, no more of my time will be spent on this forum whatsoever.
I'm not at all comfortable with the direction that this thread has
taken. If my asking earnest questions makes anyone feel unsafe and
leads to requests to block me (yes, both things were
mentioned/requested and can
Well, the best way to meet people interested in working with you to build
the sound library on Commons is ... on Commons. There's a Village Pump
there, where you can freely post a message, and people will answer it if
they are interested. There are projects running that revolve around sound
or
́Fae,
You just did. Arguably, you did even worse by throwing the allegation
out there without substantiation. Nobody's asking you to be friends
with Greg Kohs—it's no secret that I'm not—but you're dredging up
off-list history for no productive reason I can discern.
Since I'm responsible for
On 29/05/2014, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote:
́Fae,
You just did. Arguably, you did even worse by throwing the allegation
out there without substantiation. Nobody's asking you to be friends
with Greg Kohs—it's no secret that I'm not—but you're dredging up
off-list history for no
Wil,
Just for the record, hands-off is the best way to describe our
approach to wikimedia-l moderation. We (the administrators) sometimes
step in when a thread or a poster gets way out of control, but for
this list, that bar's set pretty high.
The soft post limit that's been pointed out to you
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Austin Hair adh...@gmail.com wrote:
Wil,
Just for the record, hands-off is the best way to describe our
approach to wikimedia-l moderation. We (the administrators) sometimes
step in when a thread or a poster gets way out of control, but for
this list, that
Hi all,
This is a personal note to clarify a some questions that recently came up,
specifically in the context of my role as the incoming ED.
My partner Wil and I are partners in our private lives. We have always both
been extremely independent, and we respect that in each other. That said we
On 28/05/2014, Lila Tretikov l...@wikimedia.org wrote:
...
independent individual
able to speak with his own voice and ask his own questions. He does not
take direction from me. He will not work for the WMF or engage with the WMF
employees.
Thanks for making these distinctions. It is sad to
On 05/28/2014 08:59 AM, Fæ wrote:
A curiosity that only manifested
itself shortly after the public announcement of your employment by the
Foundation board.
In all fairness, Fæ, if my spouse had been hired as the leader of a very
visible and significant business or nonprofit, I too would find
Just a personal testimonial also to emphasize Marc's point and not
necessarily when I did a work for WMF as a contractor, my previous
girlfriend got interesting in Wikimedia projects after she saw somethings I
worked on my spare time as a volunteer. She even began to write at
Wikimedia Brasil
My wife, thanks to Viisual Editor, now creates pages!
On 28 May 2014 16:21, Everton Zanella Alvarenga
everton.alvare...@okfn.orgwrote:
Just a personal testimonial also to emphasize Marc's point and not
necessarily when I did a work for WMF as a contractor, my previous
girlfriend got
On 28 May 2014 15:04, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:
...
So that Wil's interest manifested around the time Lila was announced as
the next ED seems to me to be perfectly natural, even if I have
expressed serious concerns about *how* that interest was expressed.
-- Marc
There is a
My significant other applied for a grant and got 500 Wikireaders
distributed to 3 schools:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Aislinn_Dewey/Distribute_WikiReaders_to_Schools/Report
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-distribute-wikireaders-and-provide-an-opportunity-for-kids-to-learn
Hi Victor,
That's great. I can't see any complaints about WMF employees in the
links you provided.
I am sure that we could find 100 examples of the partners of
Wikimedians doing something on Wikimedia projects, it would be a great
topic for reasons why I love Wikimedia... That is not the issue
On 5/28/2014 5:59 AM, Fæ wrote:
On 28/05/2014, Lila Tretikov l...@wikimedia.org wrote:
...
independent individual
able to speak with his own voice and ask his own questions. He does not
take direction from me. He will not work for the WMF or engage with the WMF
employees.
I do not really
On 28 May 2014 16:55, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote:
On 5/28/2014 5:59 AM, Fæ wrote:
...
I do not really understand the point being made about not engaging
...
I believe the point is that Wil, in particular, will not interfere with
Wikimedia staff in carrying out their duties,
Thanks Michael for spelling this out further. Your understanding is correct.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.comwrote:
On 5/28/2014 5:59 AM, Fæ wrote:
On 28/05/2014, Lila Tretikov l...@wikimedia.org wrote:
...
independent individual
able to speak with his
Hi Fae, if you're referring to the discussion on this page, then I
think I make it quite clear why I won't engage with WMF employees
going forward:
http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14t=4680start=150.
To be sure, I'm not used to having anyone from Lila's team immediately
emailing
A slight correction: the revision was rev-deleted by a member of the community
- a member of ArbCom, in fact - and not an employee of the Foundation.
Snt frm m Phn
On May 28, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
Hi Fae, if you're referring to the discussion on this page,
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote:
If those guidelines are respected, there should be no
problem about Wil interacting with staff in an ordinary fashion. I'm sure
Wil understands this and will be careful about it, and it's also good that
Lila has said
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
To be sure, I'm not used to having anyone from Lila's team immediately
emailing her through their official company addresses as soon as I ask
a question in a public forum. In this case, the WMF has made it quite
clear that the
Wil, the deletion log of the page in question is publicly visible. There
are no WMF employees who have deleted anything on that page, ever. This is
information you can check for yourself instead of relying on the words of
others.
Risker
On 28 May 2014 12:23, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
If you're talking about the message left on Oliver's talk page, it was
a threat by a banned user which included reference to a dream about
him where knees were nailed to the floor from the back and other
such lovely
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would be
obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the
following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago:
I may have misread which page the rev was on, or I misunderstood the
person who said s/he revdeleted it in
On May 28, 2014 7:09 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would be
obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the
following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago:
I may have misread which page the rev was
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would be
obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the
following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago:
I may have misread which page the
Wil, if you want to use email lists for your discussions, you may find a
better reception if you use one of the project- or task-specific lists.
There is a page on English Wikipedia with links to mailing lists that most
closely relate to that project[1] and a more extensive list at Meta that
Yes, that was mentioned on the Wikipediocracy thread, as well. I
apologize to that person and the WMF for my misunderstanding.
Other than establishing the fact that I wrongly stated that this
person is a WMF employee, the revdelete doesn't seem to warrant more
investigation according to existing
If people don't want me to discuss this here, of course we can take it
elsewhere.
I only reply to this publicly to suggest that you and others help me
out with that. For example, you have plenty of options beyond replying
list-wide to communicate the very thing you're telling me below. As
long as
Nathan, I was responding to Lila's note to clarify that I had made the
decision to not discuss anything privately with any WMF employee. The
IRC discussion was referenced by Fae, so I sent a link to the
discussion so everyone could see what he was talking about; I will
absolutely stand by my
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
Nathan, I was responding to Lila's note to clarify that I had made the
decision to not discuss anything privately with any WMF employee. The
IRC discussion was referenced by Fae, so I sent a link to the
discussion so everyone
Wil Sinclair wllm@... writes:
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would be
obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too.
Indeed you can. If you navigate to
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log and enter the title
of the page in the
Thank you for the explanations, Lila, Molly, and everyone else.
Wil, I happen to be waiting on an email right now so I have a few minutes to
spare. If you need clarification on anything that has been said in this
discussion I am happy to meet you on IRC or have a Skype conversation. I would
We are all interested in hearing all sides of every story here, aren't
we? I'm starting to get the feeling that there are things that some
people on this list don't want *anyone* to discuss.
Which things, and which people are you aiming at, particularly?
--Martijn
After all, you
could
Well, we were discussing IRC and my experience there in this thread,
and many people were asking me to wait. I find this interesting,
because some on Wikipediocracy also asked me to wait, with the
significant exception that this was to wait until I so something,
then come back. In this case, it
Wil, I have been following the conversation and I can feel your
good-hearted nature.
Please do not be offended when they say wait to you. They mean no harm to
you, just the opposite.
I know how frustrating it is to have to wait, because all of us have gone
through the same...
Just to give you an
Hi Will, we generally can find critics mainly from those who cannot
understand or do not have patience when newbies make mistakes. Obviously I
also have this problem sometimes (for this some ironic comments when I
suggested in a recent topic suggesting we should criticize more
Wil,
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
As you can see there is a lot of consternation being directed your
way, and at some stage, and this will teach you well for the future as
well, you have to learn to walk away from the keyboard. If you can't
do this, and I
I cannot believe I am saying this; but I totally agree with Russavia.
Wil; why not have a go contributing to some WP articles and seeing what
your experience is.
We have a comment statement that gets made on flame threads, which boils
down to isn't there an article you could be writing?
Tom
Thanks for all the pointers, Molly, and for disclosing that it was you
for the sake of adding a bit more info to the discussion; you haven't
done anything wrong as far as I know, and I didn't feel comfortable
mentioning your IRC nick in case there were any confusion. I simply
didn't get a chance
Wil Sinclair wllm@... writes:
I've apologized to you here and on Wikipediocracy, but apologies are
always worth doing directly and for as many to see as possible: I'm
very sorry for mistaking you for a WMF employee. I take full
responsibility for my words and actions. I hope you can forgive
Hello Victor:
I continue to admire your persistence, and now it seems that of your
partner, to fully engage in the process of bringing your considerable
talent and seemingly boundless energy to making it possible for very
single human being to freely share in the sum of all knowledge.
It reminds
Ah, this segues well into the email I was just drafting: I have to say that
I was surprised to see the contents of what appears to be an internal staff
email being brought up both on Wikipediocracy and here by a non-staff
member. Wil, can you clarify if you were copied on the email, and if
Dear Lila,
I think many of us are interested in how you will engage with the Wikimedia
community, what kind of outcomes you will seek, and what kind of tactics
you will employ in seeking those outcomes.
Can you please clarify whether you believe it is possible for somebody with
a close
On 28 May 2014 22:57, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Is this really the best way for the new Executive Director to be introduced
to the Wikimedia community and the world?
- *Wikipedia is lucky to have people like Greg [Kohs]; even if he
never directly contributes to WP
First off, I said that about Greg, and I firmly believe it. He's
uncovered many controversies at Wikipedia. In fact, his article was
the first to be critical of Lila's appointment, and- save the rather
petty comment about airline fees at the end- was pretty on-point. That
doesn't mean that I agree
Wil, you are supporting a man that thought it was a hilarious joke to
call me a faggot. Not something that I am prepared to overlook, ever.
I now have serious reservations about Lila's good judgement in failing
to ensure you were appropriately advised, considering her critical
role in the
Wil, we talked about this on IRC, so I won't repeat what I said. But what I
did *not* say is that the foundation tends to let the community do what it
wants, and it would be against that long-standing tradition for staff to
try to force a change in the community.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:18 PM,
I thought she did explain it. I act on my own behalf. I'm not
introducing Lila to anyone for any purpose. Man, I am getting tired of
writing that, and I can imagine that you're tired of reading it. We've
both already answered this question.
Everything I said about Greg there is true in *my*
I didn't know that he called you a faggot. Could you please show me where?
I mentioned I didn't agree with him on everything. I certainly would
*never* agree that a slur like that is justified, if he did make it.
In any case, the quote stands. Maybe we should start a separate thread
on the quote
Wil, ask Kohs to repeat his filth. I'm not going to do it for him.
Fae
On 28 May 2014 23:37, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
I didn't know that he called you a faggot. Could you please show me where?
I mentioned I didn't agree with him on everything. I certainly would
*never* agree that a
Wil,
Have you been introduced to Jimmy Wales yet?
I'd be most interested for you to take your quote about Greg Kohs to
Jimmy on his talk page
(https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Walesaction=editsection=new)
and ask him if he would agree with you.
Also, please note that
Yes, we did talk on IRC. But what are you referring to? I wasn't
referring to you anywhere. I don't even remember talking about WMF's
role in the community. I guess if you have a log of that part of the
conversation, you should post it now. I may have a log in my own
client, if you don't mind my
I mean, you referred to Lila as a potential source of change in the
community's problems in your email right before mine on this thread. If you
meant the community of the wikis, I'm just saying that it wouldn't really
be kosher according to our current practices.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:42 PM,
All:
I don't know the first thing about the alleged safety concerns discussed on
IRC, but the following quote is troubling to me:
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
She replied a WMF employee emailed me that there are safety
concerns,
It seems that Wil has
Greg, would you like to repeat your filth? He may need someone to post
it in surrogate, since I believe he said he's banned here.
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
Wil, ask Kohs to repeat his filth. I'm not going to do it for him.
Fae
On 28 May 2014 23:37, Wil
You *can't* be serious. Now I'm *really* starting to get the idea that
you guys just want to shut me up. And you're using the fact that I'm
actually being very open about something to justify it. This is
extremely worrying if everyone else on this list agrees with you.
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014
Someone already mentioned me on his talk page, and I responded. Please
do paste that quote there if you think he'd be interested in it. I
know he and Greg have disagreed in the past; he may offer me a
different perspective on the matter. I'm interested in everyone's
perspective.
,Wil
On Wed, May
... I wish I kept more up to date on this set of threads and had stepped in
to say something sooner. I'm going to go ahead and say that I agree with
Pete that at this juncture the most beneficial course of action would
probably be for Wil to back this set of discussions for at least a few
days,
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote:
This is no judgment on him as a person, but I do think
we need to protect this list from further flooding.
As a reminder, this list has an official soft limit of 30 posts per
individual/month, as stated on
I didn't really mention anything specifically, except a leader who
could change the concerning aspects of the WP community. It has been
WMF's stated goal to change things like the participation of women on
WP for years. I suppose it would be most accurate to say that I meant
the things that the
Wil: nothing anyone is saying here is aimed at discrediting you, you've
just jumped in to a field of landmines without a map, and we'd rather not
have you blow your legs off. I'll have a private email incoming to you as
fast as I can type it but given that the deputy director of the WMF and
If this list chooses to block me for any amount of time, it might as
well be forever. I'm responding to other people's mails here; I'd
prefer to mail less as well.
In any case, you'll be blocking someone for asking relevant questions
and replying to relevant concerns. I think that is pretty
, ignore him and
it will go away.
From: w...@wllm.com
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 16:10:49 -0700
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A personal note.
If this list chooses to block me for any amount of time, it might as
well be forever. I'm responding to other people's
Hi Erik, just for guidance here- should I not publicly respond to
those who have publicly address me or talked about my actions or words
directly?
You guys are moving in a *very* sketchy direction here. These mails
are archived; it will be quite clear what everyone said before I was
blocked if
It turns out that Lila is actually a perfect ED. Someone capable to handle
and love a person like Wil is -- should be quite competent in handling the
rest of the community :D
On May 29, 2014 1:21 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
Hi Erik, just for guidance here- should I not publicly
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
Hi Erik, just for guidance here- should I not publicly respond to
those who have publicly address me or talked about my actions or words
directly?
Hey Wil,
Pick your battles, help keep the conversation manageable, exercise
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
I didn't know that he called you a faggot. Could you please show me
where?
That post was removed from view at the time (May 2012).
http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3707#p3707
What Greg had said on WO was,
Hello all,
Lila: Thank you kindly for these recent notes. It is wonderful to
hear your thoughts on your first weeks.
Wil: Working through public, logged forums is a fine principle; one
that I try to follow myself. It helps avoid misunderstandings.
Pete Forsyth writes:
I'd like to suggest
Thanks for the note, Sam. Your advice to me is very wise. I've said
and seen about all that I want to, save one more post. You'll see it
in the next few minutes.
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
Lila: Thank you kindly for these recent
As I mentioned to Sam, I have just one more thing to say here before I
let you guys deliberate on whether to block me.
I've been getting tons of private emails from people who say that they
don't want to see me blocked, but that they are afraid to say that on
the list, because they feel like they
On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote:
As I mentioned to Sam, I have just one more thing to say here before I
let you guys deliberate on whether to block me.
I've been getting tons of private emails from people who say that they
don't want to see me blocked, but
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