Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Jane Darnell
I can sympathize with the issue, namely, that it would be nice if only Foundation employees could be allowed admin access on their own wiki. I recall a similar issue (which was not so widely blown up) for our WMNL board wiki in the Netherlands (and yes Phoebe, that is a very boring wiki). I find

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Peter Southwood
Lets get a few things in perspective: 1. How many community members were abusive/unreasonable/whatever beyond what might be considered a startle reaction to an apparent attack without warning? 2 How many people constitute this community Divide answer 1 by answer 2 Consider how much of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread James Alexander
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net wrote: Lets get a few things in perspective: 1. How many community members were abusive/unreasonable/whatever beyond what might be considered a startle reaction to an apparent attack without warning? 2 How many

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:03 AM, James Alexander jameso...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Peter Southwood peter.southw...@telkomsa.net wrote: Lets get a few things in perspective: 1. How many community members were abusive/unreasonable/whatever beyond what might be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Thomas Goldammer
Just a general note, could you please all wait for Gayle to get back to her office? ^^ I think she wanted to address some of the things discussed here on Monday, which is by San Francisco time. So maybe let it rest for a few hours now? :) Th. p.s. sorry about the empty email, my mouse is broken

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
Hi, The Wikimedia Foundation site says the following: The Wikimedia Foundation is proud http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Values to be one of the most transparent non-profit organizations in the world. But the decission to remove administrator rights is made internaly, thats not transparent?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
Thomas, She is on holiday, she will not be in the office today? Huib On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Thomas Goldammer tho...@gmail.com wrote: Just a general note, could you please all wait for Gayle to get back to her office? ^^ I think she wanted to address some of the things discussed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Heather Ford
On May 13, 2013, at 6:57 AM, phoebe ayers wrote: You know, it's kind of the ultimate Wikimedian tempest: arguing over who gets to add users and delete pages on what is quite possibly the world's most boring wiki[1]... I would take a stab and stay that it's not about who gets access but about how

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Thomas Goldammer
but will circle back when I return to work next Monday. (Gayle) Wait for that. Whatever time it actually means. :) Th. 2013/5/13 Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com Thomas, She is on holiday, she will not be in the office today? Huib ___

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Thomas Morton
I've been watching this unfold over the weekend. And am sorely disapointed with the rudeness from ALL sides (not from everyone, it should be said) The action of removing admin access with little warning, and last thing on a Friday is obnoxious and rude. I'd expect the foundation to review

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
It had volunteer administrators untill 6 months ago. Huib On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:46 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote: While i fully understand that contents on a domain called wikimediafoundation should be foundation managed (i see your point though that a notification

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Florence Devouard
On 5/13/13 8:54 AM, Theo10011 wrote: Hi Casey First, I miss seeing you around, in case you are not omnipresent anymore. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Try and be a bit nicer

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Peter Southwood
You realise that this is going to continue until an actual explanation of the desysopping comes out? Some of us are waiting for the reasons before posting opinions. The weekend is now over and maybe now some reasons can emerge. Cheers, Peter - Original Message - From: James Alexander

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Fae
On 13 May 2013 08:18, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:03 AM, James Alexander jameso...@gmail.comwrote: That's a bit relative, James. The active folk on this mailing list make for a pretty good cross section of thoughts/feelings/opinions of the movement.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Peter Southwood
That was actually my point. Cheers, Peter - Original Message - From: James Alexander jameso...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least) On Mon, May

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Craig Franklin
Upon reading Gayle's response, and reflecting on some of the comments I made on Saturday night, I have come to the conclusion that some of the things I said may have come across as a little harsh and condescending. While that was my intention (my point was that sometimes the community can bite,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Florence Devouard
On 5/13/13 9:27 AM, Heather Ford wrote: On May 13, 2013, at 6:57 AM, phoebe ayers wrote: You know, it's kind of the ultimate Wikimedian tempest: arguing over who gets to add users and delete pages on what is quite possibly the world's most boring wiki[1]... I would take a stab and stay that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
Hi Huib, we are currently reorganizing the internal communication about the Foundation's blog, and in the process have just removed your subscription. The list is going to see more confidential information in the future, and we want to focus membership more on people who need to know it. I want

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread James Alexander
Huib: Was that the blog mailing list? I'm not actually sure that's in use at all anymore (I was never on it, I just assumed the discussions basically just moved to comcom). James Alexander Manager, Merchandise Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:47 AM,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
It was the explanation for both, I have some more communication: -- Forwarded message -- From: Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org Date: Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 6:32 AM Subject: Re: Error on Blog while moderating To: Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com I can, but I'll be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Philippe Beaudette, 13/05/2013 11:21: I actually was, Florence :-) Let's see... https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prevoldid=55625971 First (registered user, non deleted) edit 28 May... so not 7 years yet? ;-) And of course answering on day counts is a very constructive way to address Florence's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Heather Ford
On May 13, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Florence Devouard wrote: On 5/13/13 9:27 AM, Heather Ford wrote: On May 13, 2013, at 6:57 AM, phoebe ayers wrote: You know, it's kind of the ultimate Wikimedian tempest: arguing over who gets to add users and delete pages on what is quite possibly the world's most

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Philippe Beaudette
Previous account, Nemo. :) — Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc On May 13, 2013, at 3:01 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Philippe Beaudette, 13/05/2013 11:21: I actually was, Florence :-) Let's see...

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Tilman Bayer
Hi Huib, thanks for correcting your earlier claim in the main thread that you were never notified about this kind of thing (although unfortunately this correction comes only after your claim already contributed to leaving MZ a little speechless and feeling more and more ... distanced from

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Fae
On 13 May 2013 12:00, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote: ... Curiously, here you left out one sentence from my 2011 email: And while I don't want to pass judgment over your work on the projects, the fact that you are currently blocked on Meta etc. makes it difficult to justify keeping

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Tillman, For the record, the time between your e-mail and my request why the rights where removed is FOUR days. That's a completely wrong statement. I emailed you as soon as I removed you from the wikimedia-blog list.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 May 2013 12:00, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote: ... Curiously, here you left out one sentence from my 2011 email: And while I don't want to pass judgment over your work on the projects, the fact that you are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Florence Devouard
omg, he just admitted sockpupetting !!! On 5/13/13 12:35 PM, Philippe Beaudette wrote: Previous account, Nemo. :) — Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc On May 13, 2013, at 3:01 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Philippe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Fae
On 13 May 2013 12:42, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote: By the way, I am unclear, was the email you are quoting extensively from, rather than summarizing, a public correspondence, or are you choosing to publish it now, on a permanently and publicly archived email list, two year later?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Craig Franklin
All other things aside, misspelling the person's name and then calling them an asshole is hardly likely to lead to an amicable solution, peace, love, or understanding, is it? On 13 May 2013 21:09, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Tillman, For the record, the time between your e-mail

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
I see I do have the timeframe wrong with the e-mails. Sorry for that, that means I need to look up to other e-mails and send with Jay also. So far I will stand by my claim. I just had the wrong e-mails. But now you are saying you removed me 4 months after the RFC you removed me from the blog and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
Given that the deadline for the list moderators passed several days ago, may be could voluntarily stop at this point with the thread and not really try to figure out whether moderators are needed? Cheers Yaroslav On 13.05.2013 13:57, Huib Laurens wrote: I take the asshole back. Sorry for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Fae
On 13 May 2013 12:54, Craig Franklin cfrank...@halonetwork.net wrote: All other things aside, misspelling the person's name and then calling them an asshole is hardly likely to lead to an amicable solution, peace, love, or understanding, is it? That's correct. However I think we all recognize,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Tilman Bayer
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote: What I struggle to understand is that the Foundation was consulting about methods of making the blog more open which was intended, from what I understand, to allow more community members to manage it. I'm not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Thehelpfulone
On 13 May 2013 12:00, Tilman Bayer tba...@wikimedia.org wrote: Actually, you were the only volunteer removed at that point in 2011 - there were at least four volunteers who I think are still on the list. As indicated in the part of my email that you chose to quietly suppress, a main reason to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Thehelpfulone
On 13 May 2013 13:02, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for clarifying why Huib had his blog access revoked Tilman. Please could you clarify why Casey and Alex (who haven't been socking, at least not to my knowledge!) had their access revoked without notification? Ah I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
This isn't a comment aimed at anyone in particular, so I'm not going to quote anybody, but can we please stop hijacking this thread, and posting about how Wikimedia Foundation staff are also humans and how the WMF was badly organised X years ago — which are valid discussion for a different

[Wikimedia-l] Updates from WM-IL

2013-05-13 Thread Dorit Shafir Dyamant
Greetings to everyone, I would like to share with you two important events that will soon occurin our Israeli Chapter: == Hackathon Tel Aviv == WMIL's first developers' meeting, at Google campus in Tel Aviv. Wikimedia Israel has already held a number of national and international conferences on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Eddy Paine
Hello, A strange thing about the conversation that was going on before it escalated isn't addressed at all. Something is happening on Meta. The community takes action and then a few months later everything is passed and the user is unblocked and working happily again. But then *BOOM* a

[Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Dan Rosenthal
While we are waiting, if Matthew could also check whether I still have my access rights to the blog, if I do I would appreciate them being removed as I do not need them. On Monday, May 13, 2013, Thehelpfulone wrote: On 13 May 2013 13:02, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Matthew Roth
wow, what a weekend to go camping :) I'll also reply to Casey and Alex on the other thread, but I was the one who changed their user rights from Editor to Contributor, which in our WordPress setup limits some of their abilities, like approving comments, uploading files and editing posts written

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 13.05.2013 14:07, Tomasz W. Kozlowski wrote: This isn't a comment aimed at anyone in particular, so I'm not going to quote anybody, but can we please stop hijacking this thread, and posting about how Wikimedia Foundation staff are also humans and how the WMF was badly organised X years ago —

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread David Gerard
On 13 May 2013 15:40, Matthew Roth mr...@wikimedia.org wrote: I'm not the right person to say it categorically, but as far as I'm aware, there haven't been any non-staff Admin level users on the blog, at least for some time (again, I've only been at the Foundation for two years and I'm

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Matthew Roth
Wading into the water here. I hope we can separate the blog issue out a bit from the Foundation wiki issue, at least in terms of the user rights part. I was the one who changed a whole slew of user rights from Editor to Contributor, which in our WordPress setup limits some of their abilities,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Todd Allen
Philippe, Thank you for a thoughtful reply. I have especially taken seriously your advice to moderate the tone, something I have been guilty of in the past. We expect editors to treat one another respectfully even when they disagree, and I think staff should receive the same courtesy. That

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
hi Florence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppeting is using more than one account in the same time. There are legitimate situations when users have a new account set up (e.g. after forgetting a password). Also, some users have multiple accounts for privacy reasons.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Oliver Keyes
Todd Thanks for your thoughtful post :). I've been thinking over it for a bit; this is probably going to be a bit TL;DR, and doesn't address the original point of the thread (if you're here for foundationwiki discussion, look away now!) So: after ACTRIAL, we said we communicated poorly. We /did/

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Theo10011
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.plwrote: hi Florence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppeting is using more than one account in the same time. There are legitimate situations when users have a new account set up (e.g. after

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Andy Mabbett
On 13 May 2013 18:01, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: .You bring up Echo; yes, we didn't bring the Orange Bar back. But we spent a lot of cycles coming up with alternatives, running them past people, with many editors and many staffers actively engaged in the process. We had

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread David Goodman
Basically, you (in the plural) thought you could do better than the consensus, and therefore simply without rejecting it , did not implement it while you tried other things first. All these trials would have been good, ''had they been done before implementation.'' I am waiting for someone from

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Isarra Yos
Employees have a separate wiki specifically for employee things. The foundationwiki is different from that, serving as a forefront to the movement itself, something which we are all a part of - and that admin access should be reflecting people's specific type of association with the movement

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Dariusz Jemielniak
Theo, I know who Florence is and was, and quite honestly her suggestion that Philippe was sockpuppeting in my view only called for this short reminder. And if she joked, I'm sure she appreciated it, too. :) PS You forgot the /facepalm tag! dj On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Theo10011

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Erik Moeller
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak dar...@alk.edu.pl wrote: I think I'm quite neutral to the decision itself. If it is a WMF wiki, and if indeed there were some problems with staff being overridden by volunteers, I think it may perhaps make some sense to leave it to WMF.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Erik Moeller
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:56 AM, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, you (in the plural) thought you could do better than the consensus, and therefore simply without rejecting it , did not implement it while you tried other things first. All these trials would have been good,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote: If I read the e-mails correctly, 1 and 2 were covered. 1 is Gayle, and 2 is that it was on her to do list for a long time, so apparently she decided to perform this on Friday afternoon since it was not pleasant and had to be done anyway. I'm not so sure about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Florence Devouard
On 5/13/13 6:39 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote: hi Florence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry sockpuppeting is using more than one account in the same time. There are legitimate situations when users have a new account set up (e.g. after forgetting a password). Also, some

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread Huib Laurens
Tilman, But with that said there is still no answer in why did you wait untill 3 months after the RFC when I was deblocked before you removed the rights? And did you talked with you're co-workers or even ur boss (Jay) about it? Huib ___ Wikimedia-l

[Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Russavia
Hi all, It recently came to my attention by way of this blog by Odder (http://twkozlowski.net/how-40k-dollars-turned-to-petty-cash/) that the AffCom approved a $40,000 budget to send 9 of their members to HKG in August (the 10th member lives in HKG). The issue was raised at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Nathan
$200 per person per night for international travel is not outrageous. It's actually quite reasonable, in my opinion, for business travel. I don't think it reasonable to expect people who don't know eachother or even work together to room together for a week in a foreign country. The question you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread David Goodman
right; wrong thread. But yes,beta is good,as with the virtual editor. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:56 AM, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, you (in the plural) thought you could do better than the

[Wikimedia-l] [wca] Announcing WCA/Journal

2013-05-13 Thread Markus Glaser
Hi everyone, I am happy to announce we started WCA/Journal this week: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Journal WCA/Journal is one big piece in the mosaic of tools and communication spaces we provide in order to start and grow the exchange of ideas, solutions and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Gregory Varnum wrote: I am not sure what you mean by none of the members being willing to comment. Our chair has responded several times on Meta and many others have responded to Odder via email about this. Let me just straighten this, Greg. Nobody has ever contacted me via e-mail about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Nathan
The US federal government maximum rate for lodging Hong Kong is $358 per night.[1] I'm not saying $200 is frugal, it's just not outrageous. [1]:http://aoprals.state.gov/web920/per_diem_action.asp?MenuHide=1PostCode=10261 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Michael Peel
I'm not sure that the maximum rate is the best comparison to make here. I can understand that for senior representatives of the US government on official business, since prestige seems to be an issue there, but for individuals on charity business? I'm not saying outrageous, but I am saying

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Nathan
It applies equally well to GS11s traveling on business where prestige is not a factor. Even domestically, I've seen travel costs approximately in line with $200 per night paid by not-for-profits. Can it be cheaper? Sure. Is it cause for outrage and opprobrium in public? I doubt it. I'm more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Deryck Chan
In such resolutions, one always budget for the maximum plausible cost and then underspend. It is rather unhelpful to look at the budgeted amount and shout at it as if it's the actual amount spent. PS. Jealous? Run for the forthcoming elections. Winners of those elections also get to travel to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Bence Damokos
Hi Tomasz, On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski tom...@twkozlowski.net wrote: Gregory Varnum wrote: I am not sure what you mean by none of the members being willing to comment. Our chair has responded several times on Meta and many others have responded to Odder

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Andrew Lih
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: ...Paris and London are both more expensive cities that Hong Kong, so I'd expect the daily rate here to be closer to $130/night, and ideally less than that where bookings are made sufficiently in advance. Not to be a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Michael Peel
On 13 May 2013, at 22:03, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: ...Paris and London are both more expensive cities that Hong Kong, so I'd expect the daily rate here to be closer to $130/night, and ideally less than

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Risker
On 13 May 2013 17:15, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: On 13 May 2013, at 22:03, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: ...Paris and London are both more expensive cities that Hong Kong, so I'd expect the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Russavia
Hi Andrew et al On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 5:03 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Michael Peel em...@mikepeel.net wrote: ...Paris and London are both more expensive cities that Hong Kong, so I'd expect the daily rate here to be closer to $130/night, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Béria Lima
To get a better picture, the hotels listed in the google maps linked here ( http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation) ranged from 110 dollars to 170 dollars per night and room and If you place 2 people in the same room the price is 55 to 85 dollars per person (that without the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread Andrew Lih
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.comwrote: That list is for 5 star hotels; something that I hope that donor money is never put towards covering the cost of; regardlessofwho itis. I don't see any indication that list is for 5 star hotels. Also, I'm not sure

Re: [Wikimedia-l] AffComs $40,000 Hong Kong junket

2013-05-13 Thread David Gerard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law_of_triviality - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

2013-05-13 Thread MZMcBride
Tilman Bayer wrote: thanks for correcting your earlier claim in the main thread that you were never notified about this kind of thing (although unfortunately this correction comes only after your claim already contributed to leaving MZ a little speechless and feeling more and more ... distanced