Re: [Wikimediach-l] WIKIKURIER: Bertrand Meyer, Folge 3
IMHO Wikipedia is a revolutionary point of view to have a concept of Encyclopedia. A revolutionary point of view makes antagonism (naturally). In his presentation in Wikipedia Day prof.Meyer has made a comparison with the Encyclopédie of D'Alembert and Diderot but there is a difference: the culture is not a culture which has the goal to learn people, but in Wikipedia people learn himself. The revolution is the direction of learning. The revolution is that in Wikipedia it is encyclopaedic not the article but what people know, what people discuss, what people understand. The mistakes in the article are encyclopaedic. My professor of phylosophy, making order in own library, told me: Someone could throw these old scientific books because the physic is changed for example, because they are not value for scientific people, but there are interesting for other people to understand how was the scientific thought some centuries ago. Ilario On 9/25/06, thurner rupert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, the whole story cooled down, meyer removed the i no longer contribute from his personal page, his contribution is still there - just the style discussion is still open, but it also seems to go in mr meyers favour. on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eiffel_%28programming_language%29#Quick_poll_on_typographic_conventions there is a vote on the eiffel coding style in wikipedia. for code blocks it now goes in favour of the standard, or in other words how bertrand meyers sees the story, for inline code (the code mentioned in the normal text) it is not decided yet. maybe you would like to participate too? rupert. --- treasurer - http://wikimedia.ch On 9/18/06, Manuel Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bertrand Meyer, Folge 3 „Wikipedia schrieb Bertrand Meyer tot – mit einer falschen Todesmeldung geriet die deutsche Wikipedia letzten Winter in die Schlagzeilen. Solche Malheurs hinderten den Schweizer Informatikprofessor jedoch nicht daran, kurze Zeit später unter dem Titel „Defense and Illustration of Wikipedia eine eloquente Verteidigung der Wikipedia zu verfassen. Was eine gefälschte Todesnachricht nicht geschafft hatte, erreichte jedoch der Streit um den Artikel zu der von Meyer geschaffenen Programmiersprache Eiffel. I no longer contribute to Wikipedia. I tried to make a substantial contribution, and was heckled down by incompetent zealots (incompetent is not my characterization: they were proud to trumpet their lack of knowledge of the subject matter, as it gave them more right to intervene in the article). Parnas et al. were right: the project is a disaster. Please do not believe anything you see on Wikipedia articles. If you are tempted to, please try the following experiment for a few weeks: write on an important subject that you know and care about; write your best, making sure to apply the strictest standards of scholarship and objectivity. Don't spend too much time on it, but just do it right. Then wait a little. You'll understand. [2] Wikipedia hat einen Experten und Fan weniger. (elian, 9.9.06) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier -- Regards Manuel Schneider Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Turin candidate of Wikimania 2007
For Wikimania 2007 at start you could sign your name in related page. If Turin is choosed we could organize a task force. I am organizing a meeting of Wikipedians in Lugano in november where we could decide how Wikimedia CH could help Wikimania 2007 in Turin. I will send you the program in detail. I am looking to have flights with big discount from Zurich, Bern and Geneve. Ilario On 9/10/06, Manuel Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I hope they're going to be successful. Buona fortuna, Torino! mee too, but let me ask some questions: Wikimedia CH is so young to have an own candidature, but this could be an opportunity to have Wikimania close to Swiss and to improve the capability of Wikimedia CH for a following possible candidature. right. So what we should gonna do? Task Wikimedia CH could do: - look for speakers - look for sponsors - provide staff - provide press coverage To start off and help Wikimedia IT with the application we should perhaps meet with the people from Torino and talk to them and help them gathering information and putting up a good application. Ilario, would you please take the responsibility to be the contact person between Wikimedia CH and Wikimedia IT? We perhaps should also put up a mailinglist for the wikimania2007-task-force and maybe get access to a wiki of Wikimedia IT to be able to work directly on the project with them. Greets from Nuernberg, I just visited the local Wikipedians Meeting which all went to Munich to visit the Wikipedians Meeting at Munich which took place at the same time. -- Regards Manuel Schneider Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] SchoolNetGuide
IMHO we should have in our home page the list of our initiatives. It is important for the persons to show that Wikimedia CH is active. Ilario Jürg Studer wrote: Hallo Ich habe heute von der swisscom den neusten SchoolNetGuide zugesandt erhalten. Thema: Jeder Leser auch ein Autor: Blogs und Wikis Bei den Wikis ist (natürlich) wikipedia prominent vertreten und es wird gezeigt, wie Artikel redigiert, angelegt und die Histories aufgerufen werden können. Da kann die kleine Broschüre (und auch andere) bestellt werden: http://www.swisscom.com/GHQ/content/Schule_Initiativen/Schulservice/Unterricht_online/SchoolNetGuides/SNG8_Searching_successfully.htm Gruss Jürg Studer -- Jürg Studer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Hosting Website
Ok, in Italian Wikimedia there was only a problem (they have used Mediawiki) when the features have required to have pages with restricted access. Usually blogger and/or wiki hasn't controlled access: the login allows the access to all pages. It's possible to use another configuration with restricted group and restricted login but it isn't easy to implement. You should verify this open point. Regards Ilario On 5/3/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, uuh - i'd need training for typo3 - which is one of the most feature rich cms (content management systems) i know, hehe ... i would strongly suggest to take wordpress. it looks good and does exactly what we want it to do: news for the first page. for coordination/group edit, i would suggest to stay with wiki and choose one which has user-rights on page level and allows to make groups, like moinmoin. otherwise we should not be wikimedia ch but cmsmedia ch :) rupi. -- you already know? wikipedia tried to let prof. bertrand meyer die. but people don't die that easy, in contrary: he is coming to our wikipedia day ... go and see what he says about that the 2006-06-17, eth zürich, details on http://wikimedia.ch. On 5/2/06, Ilario Valdelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I reply you after some days, but I think it could be useful. I know Wordpress and I'm approaching to Typo3. The problem is that Wordpress is a blog factory whereas typo3 is a standard CMS. This difference is considerable because a blogger has no workflow (or smaller workflow) and a simple management of users. It's also difficult to create domains with owners. If you should manage different domains, different owners, different users with complex rights or workflows (i.e. editing, approving, publishing with editor, approver, etc.) more complex than a wiki or a blog, Typo3 is a good choice. In any case if you need some help to modiy PHP pages or to manage or modify MySQL tables, I'm available. Ilario On 5/1/06, Manuel Schneider [Everything Open] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi together, I just installed two wikis: - board.wikimedia.ch - members.wikimedia.ch ch.wikimedia.org should later be redirected to www.wikimedia.ch. For www.wikimedia.ch we should decide what kind of page we'd like to install there. Wikimedia Deutschland uses Wordpress in a MediaWiki-look. I would prefer Typo3 to present current news and dates. Typo3 has (as Wordpress) the ability to work with different users as redacteurs and groups. It's quite complicated to administrate as it can nearly do anything (if you know how to realise) but it's also very nice and easy to use for redacteurs. www.wikipedia.ch will show the common portal we already use which redirects to the specific languages of wikipedia.org. ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Hosting Website
Hi, I reply you after some days, but I think it could be useful. I know Wordpress and I'm approaching to Typo3. The problem is that Wordpress is a blog factory whereas typo3 is a standard CMS. This difference is considerable because a blogger has no workflow (or smaller workflow) and a simple management of users. It's also difficult to create domains with owners. If you should manage different domains, different owners, different users with complex rights or workflows (i.e. editing, approving, publishing with editor, approver, etc.) more complex than a wiki or a blog, Typo3 is a good choice. In any case if you need some help to modiy PHP pages or to manage or modify MySQL tables, I'm available. Ilario On 5/1/06, Manuel Schneider [Everything Open] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi together, I just installed two wikis: - board.wikimedia.ch - members.wikimedia.ch ch.wikimedia.org should later be redirected to www.wikimedia.ch. For www.wikimedia.ch we should decide what kind of page we'd like to install there. Wikimedia Deutschland uses Wordpress in a MediaWiki-look. I would prefer Typo3 to present current news and dates. Typo3 has (as Wordpress) the ability to work with different users as redacteurs and groups. It's quite complicated to administrate as it can nearly do anything (if you know how to realise) but it's also very nice and easy to use for redacteurs. www.wikipedia.ch will show the common portal we already use which redirects to the specific languages of wikipedia.org. ___ www.wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] marketing via emails and homepage
Quickly reply: It could be get writing the article Wikimedia CH in more as possible wikipedias (like http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH). A second solution is to have http://www.wikimedia.ch (or related link) at foot of our signature. If we reply at mailing list these replies are stored in a archive which are processed by search engines. Best Regards Ilario Valdelli Last but not least we should introduce our website in as many Homepages as possible to increase Pagerank (we don't have any yet!) ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Founding Assembly
Hello, I'm reading and replying to the emails in this moment because I've been very very busy in these last weeks. I've indicate my choices in the web page. Unfortunately the stressing time is not finished yet :( but my hope is to be present at first Assembly above all to know (face to face) all other members. For these reasons I've made a choice for a date in May and for Luzern, Olten or Zürich. April is impossible for me because I've a deadline in my job for 3 May. Thanks Ilario^_^ Manuel Schneider [Everything Open] wrote: Hello all together, I'd need your attention at http://ch.wikimedia.org/wiki/Events/Founding_Assembly as we're planning date and location of the founding assembly of Wikimedia CH. Please enter your favourite date and location and / or put your name into the list of dates and locations which fit for you. We really try to get a founding assembly very soon! Thanks, Manuel ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] about Wikipedia Day - an answer
Hello to all, It could be a good idea to have this materials in PDF format. The PRs in areas outside Zurich could download the PDFs and print them to stick up where it's possible. It's important to have similar material in similar graphic format (i.e. wikipedia logo combined with other elements) also for media press, possible in two/three languages. I added me to PR team but only like support, to contact some media of Tessin (if no-one has already contacted them) and Universities. I suggest to the PR team to contact already media press in this moment to inform them that we are organizing this meeting. If we have a download area and web pages with more informations, this could be an advantage. The feedback of medias, in this moment, could be important to foresee the adhesions. Please, contact me for the areas where you think there is a need. Ilario On 4/11/06, Robin Schwab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm willing to work in the PR+ media team. Who else is? I'm a little concerned that we're running out of time. This is true. I appreciate your engagement very much. We must fix the precise content of our Wikipedia day to print flyers and Plakate. A friend of mine could create a flyer and print them if we need special paper and/or colours. Else www.flyerline.ch offers quite cheap flyers. I would suggest to try to distribute flyers in swiss Kantonsschulen/Gymnasien , universities, both ETHs and Fachhochschulen/höhere Fachschulen. Besides something like a Pressemappe would engage press people to write about us. More ideas appreciated... Regards Robin ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] As an information
I've modified the italian translation. In any case I'm reading the questions made by Jürg: these are also my questions. Ilario On 4/5/06, Frederic Schutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Delphine Ménard wrote: I think all is resolved. Thank you for translating the part that we changed [1] into the other languages so that it is repercuted in the official translations of the bylaws. I have updated the English version of the bylaws already. Please inform us when this is done at chaptercommittee-l AT wikimedia PUNTO org so that we can give our advice to the board and finally be done with it. I will try to finish the French translation ASAP. Frédéric ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] As an information
The questions of Jürg are correct. The text is changed like this: The Association shares the objectives of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a not-for-profit organisation based in Florida, USA. before it was: The Association shall take the responsiblities of a section (Local Chapter) of the Wikimedia Foundation Inc. (Florida, USA). The Association's independence is not affected by this. The Wikimedia Foundation acts as the umbrella organization for all national Wikimedia sections. The last sentence is the same: The Wikimedia Foundation coordinates the activities according to the Association's purpose within the international sector and it manages the name Wikimedia as well as the names of the various international Wikimedia projects. All problem is to understand the verb share. The previous sentence was more clear, the new version is vague. In the new version we don't analyze the meaning of this word. It should be to divide in equal parts or to partecipate with. The problem is: who decides? Wikimedia Foundation decides and we should receive its guidelines? or, like Jürg says, we couldn't share the objectives? It's important to define this point to haven't problems later. Ilario On 4/5/06, Jürg Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Just some questions about something, that maybe is discussed before, while defining this section: * While Wikimedia CH _SHARES_ the objectives of the Wikimedia Foundation _FULLY_ (not only in parts), do we have the right to discuss and form these objectives actively or do we have to take whatever the Foundation decides, including a total change of goals and as a extreme a total commerzialisation? * If the Foundation decides something like this and the Swiss Chapter does not share this objective, what options do we have then? * Ist this wording a MUST if we want to be a Chapter of Wikimedia or can we opt out in some subjects? * If we have a different point of view than the Foundation, the wording says, that we have nearly no rights to oppose against these subjects, because we HAVE TO SHARE the objectives of the Foundation. My fear is, that we would become a simple puppet of the foundation (nothing against it by now!) instead of a self-contained association. * As a possible szenario (just in my mind by now - but not in reach), our association also want to support other software than the Wikimedia software, what the Foundation could stop by this wording. And we have no chance to do something against this directive. I know, these questions can only be asked by a person out of a direct democratic structure, but as I read the posting, those thoughts rose in my mind. Jürg Wolf -- Zitat von Delphine Ménard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 4/3/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to inform you: There is at the moment quite some talking going on at http://ch.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bylaws/En about bylaws (reaction from ChapCom and the Legal Counsel of WMF) I think all is resolved. Thank you for translating the part that we changed [1] into the other languages so that it is repercuted in the official translations of the bylaws. Please inform us when this is done at chaptercommittee-l AT wikimedia PUNTO org so that we can give our advice to the board and finally be done with it. [1] The Association shares the objectives of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a not-for-profit organisation based in Florida, USA. The Wikimedia Foundation coordinates activities along the lines of the Association's purpose within the international sector, and manages the name Wikimedia as well as the names of the various international Wikimedia projects. Delphine -- ~notafish ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] As an information
The goals of Wikimedia CH are indicated at §2.1 -- these are the official goals, as defined by the bylaws. §2.3 is here to indicate that there is some kind of link with the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF), which is obviously required since we share their name, but it does not influence by itself the goals as defined earlier. You are in the right, our goal is: ...to support the creation, collection and distribution of Open Content in a not-for-profit way in order to support education and the equal opportunity of access to knowledge. If the foundation took a decision that we do not share (respecting our goal), we could refuse it following point 2,1 or must accept it following point 2.2? As I understand it, the word share is only informational, meaning: look, these are our goals, and the reason why we have chosen to pursue these particular goals is because the WMF is doing this and that and we like it. I don't think there is any legal possibility by which an association could peg its goals to another entity, and have them change any day without the members even knowing about the change -- no way. The Bylaws should be not ambiguous. I suggest to define better the word share in point 2.2 adding another sentence more careful. Ilario ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Date fixing
Figo, Schön, Nice, etc. ;) On 3/22/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a proposal of Jürg Studer: On the link below there is a website (english version: http://www.doodle.ch/index.php.en) where you can create online polls. The website proposes to use these polls for date fixing - you open a poll, send the link to your friends (i.e. this mailinglist) and fix the date then via this poll. We could use this e.g. to fix the founding assembly's date or the date of board meetings or the date of upcoming members assemblies etc. What do you think of it? (I had a quick look on it and I think it might be quite a good tool). Regards Michael -- Forwarded message -- From: Jürg Studer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mar 21, 2006 8:30 PM Subject: Termine abmachen auf einfache Weise To: Bimmler Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stöcklin Nando [EMAIL PROTECTED] Guten Abend Michael Ich bin durch einen Freund auf diese Seite gestossen: http://www.doodle.ch/index.php.de Das wäre doch was, um Termine bei Wikipedia CH zu koordinieren. En schöne Abig Jürg. - Jürg Studer [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] foundation assembly?
The distance isn't a problem. In the past I was anywhere in Europe in any time for my job (Aachen, Bruxelles, Madrid, etc.), to go from Lugano to Zürich is like to go shopping at closest favourite supermarket ;) But it's logical that if this favourite supermarket is closer than another I'd like it. Ilario Um, yes, Ilario will have to cross this bloody alps anyway, whether we'll go to Berne or Luzern... But I don't care about where to go myself, from ZH you're quite fast everywhere. Cheers, ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] foundation assembly?
Hi Patrick, if Michael and Nando and all members of this ML agreed, I suggest to organize a meeting room using the IRC channel. It's a simple solution and someone can have an answer to his own questions. Best Regards Ilario On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all! I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML (Voyager, Ilja, Javier). Greets, Patrick ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] foundation assembly?
The second reply :) I means that if someone has some question or we (mailing list) wish we had preliminary meeting to have report status, we can made this through IRC channel. This is a means used also by other groups like developers (for board's meeting I know that the physical presence is a must). Best Regards Ilario On 3/21/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/21/06, Ilario Valdelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Patrick, if Michael and Nando and all members of this ML agreed, I suggest to organize a meeting room using the IRC channel. It's a simple solution and someone can have an answer to his own questions. I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you propose that we make the founding assembly itself on IRC? Because then, to be very frank, we can forget about this. IANAL but I'm quite sure to have read that Swiss law requires, that the association is physically founded and that afterwards a foundation protocol is signed by president + one board member (usually secretary/aktuar). So it won't work to do this virtually on IRC. But if you meant to do the date-and-lieu-fixing on IRC we could certainly do this, however I think, some people here might be not so experienced with IRC: Best Regards Regards Michael Ilario On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all! I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML (Voyager, Ilja, Javier). Greets, Patrick ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Translation
These are technical words. Strange also to me, but they are correct. Regards Ilario Frederic Schutz wrote: Jürg Wolf wrote: * active voting right = right to get a job within the corporation / association * passive voting right = right to vote for someone Even the swiss constitution and the cantonal constitutions make differences between these two rights. ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Board resolutions
This is a good idea. It's could be also correct to use http://www.wikimedia.ch to indicate some important resolutions taken here in the mailing list. If a new member enter in the foundation, it could be informed of the previous decisions. Regards Ilario On 3/16/06, Nando Stöcklin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Michael! 4. About page protection We have a wiki. A wiki means everybody can edit, at Wikimedia CH only people logged in. But, there are 2 reasons which are imho pro blocking some pages: a)www.wikimedia.ch, which is redirecting to our wiki, is mentioned at the bottom of the Weltwoche article about us and therefore people of the public might surf to our website. We don't really want them to see some vandalism at the first page, the main page, do we? So therefore I blocked the main page. b) the german bylaws have been approved by the meeting. They are definitive and are also base of the translations. Therefore I blocked them, because it needs to be ensured, that people know, that this is the stable version. I once thought of blocking en-translation too, because they are now reviewed by ChapCom, so there must be a stable version too. However I didn't protect them then, because we might want to correct typing mistakes et al. The other translations are unprotected at the moment. c)The resolutions are quite official documents. As they are now under discussion, I wanted that everybody sees the version we, Nando and I, decided on, to ensure that everybody is speaking about the same thing. In the future, we could mark the resolutions as draft and keep them open until they are discussed on this mailinglist. What do you think? Nando -- Nando Stöcklin Chratzernstr. 33 4803 Vordemwald Schweiz 0041 (0)62 751 39 42 (P) http://www.nandostoecklin.ch Mit bereits über 600 Artikeln: Indianer-Wiki - die freie Enzyklopädie über die Indianer. http://www.indianer-wiki.org ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Rumantsch Grischun - summary for non-german-speakers
Ok, it's very complicated :( I will ask to a translation center (I have some friends) to have a look to the translations made by ourselves. I can have this verification without costs for Wikimedia CH. Almost this (informal) verification could arrange a lists of ambiguities before the Wikimedia CH kich-off. Ilario On 3/15/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/15/06, Ilario Valdelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IMHO there is no problem. The master document should be the english version because it is the document approved by international board. I think that if there are differences between the german and the english version the correct version should be the english one. We can do this like this, but then we need to once more carefully scan the english version because it should definitely say the same as the original (to avoid errors due to translation). Because the german one is the one approved at Zurich-meeting. Frederic, if you need some help i the translation you can ask to me. Regards Regards Michael Ilario On 3/15/06, Frederic Schutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Bimmler wrote: By the way, is there anybody who would translate the bylaws into French, as Emanuel had to give back the mandate? I could do it, but only starting from the English version... it may not be a good idea to translate from a translation, but it may be better than nothing. Frédéric ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Board resolutions
Looking at the latest changes on the CH wiki... is it on purpose that the current resolutions look as formal as a UN Security Council resolution ? RESOLVED... AND... FURTHER RESOLVED... so proposed on the fifteenth of March 2006. I know it is borderline to hairsplitting, but this makes the whole thing look very bureaucratic, especially given that there no formal entity yet... Could we do with friendlier texts, please ? For me it seems as a ticketing tool language :) Also, do we really need to protect the pages ? We all know that even if changes are made after a resolution has been accepted, they can be reverted. The reason I am asking this (in addition to the general principle that we should only protect pages if needed) is that there are several typos on the page Board/Resolutions/2006/02 that I was ready to correct. I don't undestand. Do you mean that pages are blocked to no-sysop members? It seems to have a sense because when a board (or preliminary board) take a decision it's important to communicate this decision (also with grammatical errors). If a no-board person makes a change with unintentional misanderstandigs, the communication could be different. What do you think if a person change your sandbox or correct your discussion page changing the sense of your sentences? Last, but not least... this resolution says that Wikimedia CH shall have its seat in Zurich. Does that mean until a President is elected, or is there a change to the proposed bylaws ? There was a discussion same months ago and the most part of swiss wikipedians seemed to accept that the seat of foundation was in a town more central for all swiss people (like Zurich). It could be that this resolution is connected with this discussion. Regards Ilario ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Board resolutions
Lugano - the sunny capital :) On 3/15/06, Jürg Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there are even other cities possible: * Zurich - the economic capital of CH * Berne - the political capital of CH of home affairs * Geneva - the political capital of CH of foreign affairs * Lucerne - the touristic capital of CH * Jungfraujoch - another touristic capital (indian view) * Olten - the capital of traffic * Rütli - the historic capital * so how should we proceed? Is it also foreseen to open a bank account? And if - in which place? And when? In whose name? At which bank? Jürg Zitat von Manuel Schneider [Everything Open] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi together, just some words why such resolutions (or name them how you'd like) are necessary: I know that several actions must be done BEFORE the real foundation, but I still do not see why we need a special post address BEFORE the foundation - and even after the foundation, since we do not expect a bunch of mail. And as long there is no founded association, we all (= all of this mailing list? At least all persons, who are willing to help for this project) could be charged personally for things you do now. The thing is, that there are legal actions that have to be done now in preparation of the founding of Wikimedia CH and the Wikipedia Day, such as registering / transfering domain names (wikipedia.ch, wikimedia.ch etc.), contracts which have to been placed (webhosting, server and ressources) which require a postal mail adress. These stuff has also been discussed on this mailing list. And at least - as far as I know, there is no consensus about the location of the address (Zürich vs. Berne vs. Olten vs. Geneva vs. Hintertupfingen) - so why this haste? Right, as we decided to get a redirection adress we could choose any adress within switzerland - no matter where the receiver (= president) actually will be situated. So for that I would prefer Bern (as Bundesstadt) or Luzern (as central metropolis). Greets, Manuel -- - All-Things-Open Projektgruppe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.all-things-open.org/ ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Board resolutions
Which bank: Postfinance looks like a good option to me, if only because it is easy to give a postal account number to anyone for donations, such as 12-345678-9, instead of having to say Bank such and such, account A-BCDEFGH-I. All the associations I know of use a Yellow account as their main accounts. It seems good, it is easy to have paying-in slips and the yellownet (online) it's very easy to use. Ilario ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Board resolutions
Of course, your argument makes perfect sense. But being an association that promotes Wikipedia and other Wiki-based projects, I would like to think that we can do without the permanent protections, only with a banner saying This is a resolution voted by the board, and should not be modified anymore. This allows us to send outside a message such as: look, we really believe in this wiki thing, all our stuff is managed by a Wiki, anyone can edit it, and it works. Of course, we are watching the pages, and if you do something silly, we'll reverse your edits, block you and/or protect the page. The funcionalities are different. Same pages are collaboratives pages, same pages are service pages. In Wikipedia we have a lot of pages that are collaborative pages, but also a lot of pages that are service pages and are not modifiable by no-sysop users (i.e. Home Page). If we think that the pages that you analyze are service pages, the block could be correct, if we think that these are collaborative pages it isn't. I am with your opinion, if persons accept the possibility of rollback without long discussions :) My questions arises from the fact that I started to look at the bylaws in order to translate them in French, and §1.2 says that the seat of the association (note that a Foundation is something very different from the legal point of view) is where the President live, so I was wondering how it fits with this resolution that says Zürich ? I think that this point is salomonic decision to avoid discussions (happily Swiss has not a big and predominant town). Also italian wikimedia has taken the same decision. In any case the financial seat could be different. Regards Ilario ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Updated: Contact information
Hallo to all people :) I'm thinking to ask for an account for OTRS to help in italian. Do you think this is a good idea? Regards Ilario On 3/11/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/10/06, Frederic Schutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/5/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FYI: Emails can now be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access to the OTRS-queue have Manuel, Nando and I. If anybody wants to help in answering mails (there are not too many mails atm...), please contact JeLuF (IRC or Mail) to get an account. Do you already have, or do you need, a French speaker to be involved in there too ? We don't have any yet and we would very much appreciate if you could help us. I assume you don't have an OTRS account yes, so you could write JeLuF an email (for spam reasons, I will send you his email in a private mail) and apply for an account. Just refer to me and Nando and say that it's for Wikimedia CH. Thanks a lot that you want to help! -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Bylaws
Yes ;) You should send a formal note and ask (informally) to someone in the board to take care about the decision (otherwise it could require time). Ilario Michael Bimmler wrote: Question: As we now have the english version of bylaws online, shall we send a formal note to Chapters commitee (chaptercommittee-l AT wikimedia DOT org) to request approval of the bylaws? Are there any objections? -- Regards Michael Bimmler ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Rhaeto-Romanic (and other) translations
IMHO the romanic translation could be made if we have a definitive bylaw, approved and voted definitevly by the board. Ilario On 2/3/06, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An offer for a Rhaeto-Romanic translation (by mail to list-owner) was made by Anita Decurtins-Capaul, a student of romance languages and literature (and else) at University Zurich, to translate the Wikimedia CH bylaws into Rumantsch Grischun. She has already translated an Asterix-comic into Rumantsch Grischun (mentioned as reference). Matters that need to be discussed include salary and time-frame, however I do not think that rumantsch-translation ultimatively needs to be present prior to foundation. Comments on the offer are appreciated. Regards Michael By the way: Is there any update on en-translations (Manuel, were you able to ask your friend?) and french translations (Emanuel?) -- An eternity is very, very long, especially towards the end ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] Wikipedia Day - Date - new proposal
It seems to be a good decision. In my experience (but I've worked a lot with Germany and Italy and not with Swiss companies) all I have fixed in August was after delayed. In any case IMHO it is important, at moment, to fix only a deadline and a period, the date can be fixed some months before verifying the avalaibility of seat, avalaibility of persons and more. Ilario Michael Bimmler wrote: Hello, I just remarked, that I am actually not so in favour of the last saturday of holidays for the following two reasons: 1. People are a) still in holidays b) just coming back c)tired, want to relax a bit before start etc. 2. A lot of people that we need to get in touch with some weeks before the events will be on holidays during july/early august. This probably includes universitiy employees as well as the responsibles for the places where we want to advertise. 3, During the short Swiss summer, people will spend *a lot* of their free time (especially Saturdays) in public swimming baths (blame leo for this term), e.g. in the lake. I doubt whether anybody would want to be on a hot day (last day of holidays or even last summer weekend) in a room, listening to presentations or working with computers. When it's hot, people in CH want to be outside, swimming, barbecueing and so on. Therefore I nominate a date in the second half of september (e.g. Sat Sept 23), then it won't be so hot and sunny anymore, people won't be swimming anymore and may rather come during the day (remark, we are not talking about the evening) that in the middle of the short summer. So I'm just afraid, that we decide on a day like the Aug 26th and are then disappointed 'cause the weather guys say that it would be the last sunny weekend in this year and then nobody comes. What do you think? Michael -- An eternity is very, very long, especially towards the end ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] English (and French) translations, problems?
If the translations are placed in a public area someone could give help. Even if they are postate on the mailing list this would not be badly, anyone could translate and a responsible would verify and integrate them. Ilario Michael Bimmler wrote: Ad french translations: Mea culpa, I forgot, that Emanuel already said on this mailing list, that fr-translations will be ready around Christmas. Sorry! However, we still don't know anything about the English ones... Michael 2005/12/9, Michael Bimmler [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wie ich eben gesehen habe, ist Ilja gar nicht auf dieser Mailinglist, meine Anfragen konnten ihn also gar nicht erreichen. Habe ihm jetzt mal eine private Mail geschrieben. Gruss Michael 2005/12/9, Manuel Schneider [Everything Open] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is there a problem with the English (and the French) translation of the bylaws or is it possible to give a date, when they are ready? It's absolutely no problem, that the first deadline (end of November) has been missed, but as it's now 10 days later, it would be nice, if you could give a kind of time scale. As I didn't get the english version to review in the first place I'f like to ask the same question. Manuel -- - All-Things-Open Projektgruppe [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.all-things-open.org/ --- -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM d-- s:- a? C++$ UL P+ L+++$ E- W+++$ N+ o-- K- w--$ O+ M+ V PS+ PE- Y+ PGP+ t 5 X R UF !tv b+ DI D+ G+ e h r y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org mailto:Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- An eternity is very, very long, especially towards the end -- An eternity is very, very long, especially towards the end ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
[Wikimediach-l] Questions about Charter
Hi, I've corrected the italian version of charter but I've some questions. 1.what means das aktive und passive Wahlrecht. I don't understand how can happen a passive vote (art.4.1). 2.in article 8.4 I've understood that an extraordinary meeting can happen if: ---there is an urgent need ---10% of members requires it ---10 members requires it but with a written request is it correct or not? 3.there is a problem on simple majority. If the vote is not transferable and the majority is a majority of members and not a majority of presents, the Assembly frequently cannot decide anything because the majority could not be available. For this last point or we can change the transferability of vote (like in Wikimedia Italia with only two votes for person) or we should define the type of simple majority adding majority of presents. Regards Ilario ___ Wikimediach-l mailing list Wikimediach-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
