Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Hari Prasad Nadig]

Samuel,

Recriminations haven't been without reason. As repulsive as they are,
they've actually been fueled by anarchy of the way things have been taken
forward in India by WMF right from the multi-million Rupee "India Programs"
- much of it worked out in a very hush-hush manner.

Questions asked by the community members have either been suppressed or
ignored.

Many questions still lie unanswered which is a shame.



On 15 May 2014 19:49, Samuel Klein  wrote:

> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:16 AM, Ravishankar  wrote:
>
> > Both WMF and CIS want to build trust with each other forgetting that the
> > community is the invisible / invincible third partner and stakeholder .
>
> Actually, I think both WMF and CIS are primarily interested in
> building trust with the community.  That is where most energy, effort,
> and communication are directed: however unsuccessful those efforts.
> Nice use of invincible, btw.
>
> There is almost no communication or interaction between the WMF and
> CIS : but when it happens it is brief and to the point; respectful,
> low-key, and impersonal; focused on accomplishing specific tasks.
>
> There is a far larger amount of communication and interaction between
> both groups and the community: but with more recriminations and less
> focus.
>
> SJ
>
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-- 
Hari Prasad Nadig
http://hpnadig.net
http://twitter.com/hpnadig
http://flickr.com/hpnadig
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Dhaval S. Vyas]

" Talking about bad precedents, the CIS partnership is itself one such bad
precedent which is evident from the fact that WMF won't be repeating this
model of partnerships in future. "
+1+1+1+1000

"The only way to gain the trust of the community is to make an exeption and
share this contract with the community. If not in public, at least in
private communication with other important stakeholders in the community.
(Say WMIN and FDC)."
+1

"If WMF is unable to make this exception, then their exception making CIS
eligible for FDC through a board resolution can only be seen as a bias."
+1
On 17 May 2014 06:39, "Ravishankar"  wrote:

> Vishnu,
>
> //Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other
> separate MoU with WMF.//
>
> I checked with the WMF Grants team if the grant agreement I have signed
> with them is confidential.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:PEG/Ravidreams_-_Tamil_Wikimedians/TamilWiki_10_years#Is_the_grant_agreement_confidential.3F
>
> Their response doesn't hint at legal contracts, confidentiality, bad
> precedents etc., and instead I get gladly pointed to a sample grant
> agreement.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Example_project_grant_agreement_for_groups_and_organizations
>
> The example grant agreement notes as follows:
>
> //This type of grant agreement is used by WMF to make grants to both
> incorporated nonprofit organizations and nonincorporated groups. Some
> requirements in the agreement are specific to organizations and other
> requirements are specific to groups//
>
> I assume CIS comes under nonprofit organizations group as defined above.
>
> You say that CIS has not signed any other contract besides the 2 year
> grant agreement but Asaf repeatedly uses the word "contract" in his
> explanation at
>
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html
>
> //"We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not
> because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not
> want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all
> WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be,
> the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly
> share contracts...".//
>
> Given the context that you are a working partner of WMF, then we have to
> assume that this grant agreement is your contract defining the terms and
> conditions of your working relationship with WMF.
>
> So, please let us not use the misleading term grant agreement for this
> document you have signed with WMF.
>
> Talking about bad precedents, the CIS partnership is itself one such bad
> precedent which is evident from the fact that WMF won't be repeating this
> model of partnerships in future.
>
> The only way to gain the trust of the community is to make an exeption and
> share this contract with the community. If not in public, at least in
> private communication with other important stakeholders in the community.
> (Say WMIN and FDC).
>
> If WMF is unable to make this exception, then their exception making CIS
> eligible for FDC through a board resolution can only be seen as a bias.
>
> It is not the questions you choose to answer that boosts the trust but the
> questions you choose to ignore and choose to remain silent that reduces the
> trust.
>
> * What are the terms and conditions of your working relationship with WMF?
> * What is the exit clause?
> * Were you asked to work on specific programs like Wikipedia education
> programs which you sell to naive communities as their needs?
>
> These are some important questions that are left unanswered.
>
> I wouldn't blame CIS. In fact, as you have mentioned in many places, you
> are way more transparent and responsive than WMF and I genuinely appreciate
> your effort and patience.
>
> It is sad and ironic that WMF chooses to work this way. WMF is noble in
> their mission of increasing global south participation but they are failing
> miserably in executing it.
>
> Ravi
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Ravishankar]

Vishnu,

//Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other
separate MoU with WMF.//

I checked with the WMF Grants team if the grant agreement I have signed
with them is confidential.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:PEG/Ravidreams_-_Tamil_Wikimedians/TamilWiki_10_years#Is_the_grant_agreement_confidential.3F

Their response doesn't hint at legal contracts, confidentiality, bad
precedents etc., and instead I get gladly pointed to a sample grant
agreement.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Example_project_grant_agreement_for_groups_and_organizations

The example grant agreement notes as follows:

//This type of grant agreement is used by WMF to make grants to both
incorporated nonprofit organizations and nonincorporated groups. Some
requirements in the agreement are specific to organizations and other
requirements are specific to groups//

I assume CIS comes under nonprofit organizations group as defined above.

You say that CIS has not signed any other contract besides the 2 year grant
agreement but Asaf repeatedly uses the word "contract" in his explanation
at

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html

//"We (i.e. WMF) will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not
because there's anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not
want to create a misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all
WMF contracts are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be,
the case. We likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly
share contracts...".//

Given the context that you are a working partner of WMF, then we have to
assume that this grant agreement is your contract defining the terms and
conditions of your working relationship with WMF.

So, please let us not use the misleading term grant agreement for this
document you have signed with WMF.

Talking about bad precedents, the CIS partnership is itself one such bad
precedent which is evident from the fact that WMF won't be repeating this
model of partnerships in future.

The only way to gain the trust of the community is to make an exeption and
share this contract with the community. If not in public, at least in
private communication with other important stakeholders in the community.
(Say WMIN and FDC).

If WMF is unable to make this exception, then their exception making CIS
eligible for FDC through a board resolution can only be seen as a bias.

It is not the questions you choose to answer that boosts the trust but the
questions you choose to ignore and choose to remain silent that reduces the
trust.

* What are the terms and conditions of your working relationship with WMF?
* What is the exit clause?
* Were you asked to work on specific programs like Wikipedia education
programs which you sell to naive communities as their needs?

These are some important questions that are left unanswered.

I wouldn't blame CIS. In fact, as you have mentioned in many places, you
are way more transparent and responsive than WMF and I genuinely appreciate
your effort and patience.

It is sad and ironic that WMF chooses to work this way. WMF is noble in
their mission of increasing global south participation but they are failing
miserably in executing it.

Ravi
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Ravishankar]

SJ,

//There is a far larger amount of communication and interaction between
both groups and the community: but with more recriminations and less
focus.//

Please see

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Wikimedia_Foundation/Proposal_form#Reflection_on_past_programs_and_activities

For the question:

What are the programs or activities that did not work for your organization
in the past?

2 out of 3 mistakes WMF has chosen to highlight in its so many years of
activity directly relates to India.

I hope you can appreciate that the Indian Wikimedia community is not
agitated without reason regarding the next mistake in the making.

Ravi
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Karthik Nadar]

Just to clarify if anyone's confused,

CIS is an independent organization which has submitted this grant request
for its A2K program which is again funded by WMF just like Wikimedia India.
To further elaborate, Wikimedia India (WMIN) is a volunteer organization
while CIS-A2K is a paid organization working on the same goal.



Regards from Mumbai,
Karthik Nadar.
(+91) 977-360-8862
Secretary, Wikimedia India Chapter.
Bangalore, India.
http://wiki.wikimedia.in


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:52 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas  wrote:

> Dear Vishnu,
>
> There was nothing personal in my email and neither I demanded any
> justification. What I expressed was my feeling regarding the trust in the 2
> entities. Re-reading the quote of Asaf has not changed and I don't think
> reading it over and over again is ever going to change my perception. Yes,
> one thing is sure that more I read this quote, more I tend to lose the
> trust (though i have no trust in it any more).
>
> This quote and few other things relating to that have already been
> discussed a few times so I am not going to start the discussion over it.
>
> I still maintain my untrust on WMF, which certainly is not going to matter
> to WMF at all me being a tiny fish in the vast ocean of cor ocean of
> WMF.
>
> Dhaval
> On 15 May 2014 13:22, "Vishnu"  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wednesday 14 May 2014 08:17 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
>>
>>> So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort
>>> of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working
>>> relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
>>>
>> Dear Ravi, Hari and Dhaval,
>>
>> Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other
>> separate MoU with WMF.
>>
>> Asaf has explained in detail on this list as to why this Grant Agreement
>> is not being shared publicly. I am quoting him here again "We (i.e. WMF)
>> will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's
>> anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a
>> misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts
>> are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We
>> likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share
>> contracts...".
>>
>> Please see his posting here http://lists.wikimedia.org/
>> pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html
>>
>> Best,
>> Vishnu
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Dhaval S. Vyas]

Dear Vishnu,

There was nothing personal in my email and neither I demanded any
justification. What I expressed was my feeling regarding the trust in the 2
entities. Re-reading the quote of Asaf has not changed and I don't think
reading it over and over again is ever going to change my perception. Yes,
one thing is sure that more I read this quote, more I tend to lose the
trust (though i have no trust in it any more).

This quote and few other things relating to that have already been
discussed a few times so I am not going to start the discussion over it.

I still maintain my untrust on WMF, which certainly is not going to matter
to WMF at all me being a tiny fish in the vast ocean of cor ocean of
WMF.

Dhaval
On 15 May 2014 13:22, "Vishnu"  wrote:

>
> On Wednesday 14 May 2014 08:17 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
>
>> So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort
>> of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working
>> relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
>>
> Dear Ravi, Hari and Dhaval,
>
> Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other
> separate MoU with WMF.
>
> Asaf has explained in detail on this list as to why this Grant Agreement
> is not being shared publicly. I am quoting him here again "We (i.e. WMF)
> will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's
> anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a
> misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts
> are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We
> likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share
> contracts...".
>
> Please see his posting here http://lists.wikimedia.org/
> pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html
>
> Best,
> Vishnu
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Samuel Klein]

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:16 AM, Ravishankar  wrote:

> Both WMF and CIS want to build trust with each other forgetting that the
> community is the invisible / invincible third partner and stakeholder .

Actually, I think both WMF and CIS are primarily interested in
building trust with the community.  That is where most energy, effort,
and communication are directed: however unsuccessful those efforts.
Nice use of invincible, btw.

There is almost no communication or interaction between the WMF and
CIS : but when it happens it is brief and to the point; respectful,
low-key, and impersonal; focused on accomplishing specific tasks.

There is a far larger amount of communication and interaction between
both groups and the community: but with more recriminations and less
focus.

SJ

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Vishnu]

On Wednesday 14 May 2014 10:11 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:



We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as
CIS does not own the building. These are with the owners and
we cannot provide them.



In that case, you could perhaps provide the rental agreement made and 
signed by CIS with the owner? And perhaps the electricity bill (which 
specifies the name of the owner)?


Dear Hari,

Yes, this should be very much possible.

Cheers,
Vishnu
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Vishnu]

On Wednesday 14 May 2014 08:17 PM, Ravishankar wrote:
So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some 
sort of lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of 
working relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.

Dear Ravi, Hari and Dhaval,

Other than the 2 year Grant Agreement CIS has not signed any other 
separate MoU with WMF.


Asaf has explained in detail on this list as to why this Grant Agreement 
is not being shared publicly. I am quoting him here again "We (i.e. WMF) 
will not be sharing that agreement, on principle: not because there's 
anything secret or damning in it, but because we do not want to create a 
misleading precedent that may set the expectation that all WMF contracts 
are subject to community review. This isn't, and cannot be, the case. We 
likewise do not expect Chapters or other partners to publicly share 
contracts...".


Please see his posting here 
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-November/010603.html


Best,
Vishnu

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Jayantilal Kothari]

Hello Everyone!
This mail was an eye opener.
Does the A2K team have separate account to show personal contribution and
CIS contribution?
People like Vishnu withdraw salary worth Rs. 24 Lakhs per annum excluding
perks!
That's huge amount for doing nothing and then you get the work done from
volunteers like us which you show it as your own work!
Pavanjana gets 17 lakhs for doing nothing. He only edits if he gets paid.
You guys are soon going to become billionaires. Please let me know if there
is any such job opening in CIS.

Warm Regards,
Jayantilal.


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Vishnu  wrote:

>  Dear Hari,
>
>
> On Wednesday 14 May 2014 02:11 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
>
>
> [..snip..]
>
> On 14 May 2014 12:53, Vishnu  wrote:
>
>>
>>  I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the
>> concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the
>> documents for at least the sake of transparency.
>>
>>
>>  Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them
>> again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every
>> year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory
>> compliances.
>>
>
> [...]
>
>  Noted.
>
>  Kindly make the following documents public:
>
>1. Information about the AGMs and elections held by CIS for its
>governing body for all these years.
>2. Latest copy of the Memorandum of Association as filed with the
>Registrar of Societies, Karnataka (as mandated by Clause 13 of the
>Karnataka Societies Registration act).
>3. The annual filings of CIS with the Registrar of Societies,
>Karnataka for all these years.
>4. The property ownership documents of the premises where CIS office
>works from.
>5. The MoU signed by CIS with WMF.
>6. The FCRA certification and compliance related documents.
>
>
> We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not
> own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.
>
> As stated on this list many times we cannot share the WMF Grant Agreement
> (no. 5) without the explicit permission from WMF.
>
> Rest of the documents could be made available. But the admin team is in
> the middle of audit. Let me consult Sunil (he will return to office mid
> next week) and get back on this.
>
> Best,
> Vishnu
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Ravishankar]

Dhaval,

I agree with your preception.

Both WMF and CIS want to build trust with each other forgetting that the
community is the invisible / invincible third partner and stakeholder .

The discussion on CIS's grant proposal has been going on for a month and I
have nothing more to add.

I will post my concluding remarks once the FDC recommendation is out.

Ravi
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[zada zadti]

Dear Indian Wikimedians,

Why are we making so much noise on the same issues again and again?
We all know the culprits are at WMF who are completely non-transparent.

Even if CIS opens up all their documents and community raises voice, WMF is
not going to change their stand.

There is clear discrimination between WMF paid organisation CIS and
voluntary organisation WMIN (and the community).

Unless and until Asaf and the GAC gang and FDC gang at WMF gives answers to
the Indian wikipedians here, all the concerns raised are going to be a big
waste.

I am sure people holding the money power at WMF are going to be completely
silent on this.
Not sure about the view of the board members and advisors from India. Let
the community understand their views too. Also, they should convey the
concerns raised by the community on this list and various wikipages to WMF
and force them to give answers.

Till that time, WMF will be having fun reading all such mail threads and
laughing at all the fools in the community who do their voluntary work.

Oh!!  I just remembered that we have so many Indic language wikipedias that
are running and evolving even before the WMF had their presence in India,
even after CIS do their work or even after WMIN has no money to give to
volunteers.

-zZ




On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:

> Fellow Wikimedians,
>
> As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought
> funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia
> Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that
> includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
> The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the
> CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as
> outlined on their proposal page.
>
> The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and
> many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members
> have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and
> that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4
> Lakhs per month per person).
>
> Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the
> team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised
> about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the
> local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution
> Regulation Act).
>
> However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process
> for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next
> stage.
>
> More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the
> Staff Assessment discussion page here:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment
>
> I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the
> right direction.
>
> [1] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [2] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [3] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads
>
> Thank you,
> --
> Hari Prasad Nadig
> http://hpnadig.net
> http://twitter.com/hpnadig
> http://flickr.com/hpnadig
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Dhaval S. Vyas]

Hi Ravi,

Will you consider rephrasing below?

" By keeping things confidential like this, both you and WMF risk losing
the trust of the community without which you cannot guarantee successful
completion of your goals. "

Especially "risk losing"...

I have ALREADY LOST trust in the later at least and losing it in the former
gradually. If I were to write, I would say, "...both you and WMF 'ARE'
loosing..."

Anyways, that's my personal perception.

Regards,
Dhaval
On 14 May 2014 17:50, "Ravishankar"  wrote:

> Vishnu,
>
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Program/India_Program_Announcement_and_FAQ_-_30_July_2012#Did_the_grant_go_through_the_Wikimedia_Grants_Program_process.3F
>
> asks
>
> //Did the grant go through the Wikimedia Grants Program process?//
>
> and answers as folows:
>
> "No, *this first one* did not. This arrangement is a partnership in
> addition to a project grant."
>
> If that was the first grant, were consequent terms for grants promised in
> any way (written or unwritten understanding)?
> The above link and recent WMF board resolution about your eligibility to
> get funds through FDC  at
>
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:FDC_recognition_for_the_Centre_for_the_Internet_and_Society
>
> make it clear that you are a working partner of WMF besides being a grant
> receiver.
>
> Many Wikimedia affiliates and community members sign grant agreements with
> WMF. There is nothing in those grant agreements which is not already
> discussed in META to keep them confidential.
>
> So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of
> lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working
> relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.
>
> For example, inheriting the work force of former WMF India programs was
> one obvious condition to get the grant.
>
> I am looking for an MoU like the one you signed with Goa University (
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHXxJd1jwTeMnZHNVFyTWVncFU/edit ) which
> clearly defines that the partnership is for 3 years and that either party
> can exit with one month's notice.
>
> The duration of the first grant is different from the duration of your
> working partnership.
>
> Please let me know if such exit clause for your working partnership with
> WMF exists.
>
> I am aware that WMF wants to keep these things confidential.
>
> But, please understand that CIS is the first organization / working
> partner of WMF that is entering the FDC process when WMF has no clear
> guidelines for grant making to non-Wikimedia affiliates.
>
> By keeping things confidential like this, both you and WMF risk losing the
> trust of the community without which you cannot guarantee successful
> completion of your goals.
>
> Ravi
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Ravishankar]

Vishnu,

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Program/India_Program_Announcement_and_FAQ_-_30_July_2012#Did_the_grant_go_through_the_Wikimedia_Grants_Program_process.3F

asks

//Did the grant go through the Wikimedia Grants Program process?//

and answers as folows:

"No, *this first one* did not. This arrangement is a partnership in
addition to a project grant."

If that was the first grant, were consequent terms for grants promised in
any way (written or unwritten understanding)?
The above link and recent WMF board resolution about your eligibility to
get funds through FDC  at

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:FDC_recognition_for_the_Centre_for_the_Internet_and_Society

make it clear that you are a working partner of WMF besides being a grant
receiver.

Many Wikimedia affiliates and community members sign grant agreements with
WMF. There is nothing in those grant agreements which is not already
discussed in META to keep them confidential.

So, I would like to know if you have signed a separate MoU or some sort of
lgeal contract that defines the terms and conditions of working
relationship with WMF apart from the grant agreement.

For example, inheriting the work force of former WMF India programs was one
obvious condition to get the grant.

I am looking for an MoU like the one you signed with Goa University (
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHXxJd1jwTeMnZHNVFyTWVncFU/edit ) which
clearly defines that the partnership is for 3 years and that either party
can exit with one month's notice.

The duration of the first grant is different from the duration of your
working partnership.

Please let me know if such exit clause for your working partnership with
WMF exists.

I am aware that WMF wants to keep these things confidential.

But, please understand that CIS is the first organization / working partner
of WMF that is entering the FDC process when WMF has no clear guidelines
for grant making to non-Wikimedia affiliates.

By keeping things confidential like this, both you and WMF risk losing the
trust of the community without which you cannot guarantee successful
completion of your goals.

Ravi
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Hari Prasad Nadig]

On 14 May 2014 16:20, Vishnu  wrote:

>  We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not
>> own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.
>>
>
In that case, you could perhaps provide the rental agreement made and
signed by CIS with the owner? And perhaps the electricity bill (which
specifies the name of the owner)?


>
> As stated on this list many times we cannot share the WMF Grant Agreement
> (no. 5) without the explicit permission from WMF.
>

Can a 'Society' do that? Shouldn't that be made public as per the law?

It is sad to know that MoU is being kept secretive and apparently seems to
be concealing something on purpose.


>
> Rest of the documents could be made available. But the admin team is in
> the middle of audit. Let me consult Sunil (he will return to office mid
> next week) and get back on this.
>

That would be too late, probably. It is very unfortunate to see a negative
leaning response as well.

If everything is in order, surely, there's nothing preventing you from
sharing it right away?

-- 
Hari Prasad Nadig
http://hpnadig.net
http://twitter.com/hpnadig
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Vishnu]

Dear Hari,

On Wednesday 14 May 2014 02:11 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:


[..snip..]

On 14 May 2014 12:53, Vishnu > wrote:




I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the
concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall
open up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.


Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open
them again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents
scrutinized every year and reports to multiple authorities as part
of various statutory compliances.


[...]

Noted.

Kindly make the following documents public:

 1. Information about the AGMs and elections held by CIS for its
governing body for all these years.
 2. Latest copy of the Memorandum of Association as filed with the
Registrar of Societies, Karnataka (as mandated by Clause 13 of the
Karnataka Societies Registration act).
 3. The annual filings of CIS with the Registrar of Societies,
Karnataka for all these years.
 4. The property ownership documents of the premises where CIS office
works from.
 5. The MoU signed by CIS with WMF.
 6. The FCRA certification and compliance related documents.



We do not have the property ownership documents (no. 4) as CIS does not 
own the building. These are with the owners and we cannot provide them.


As stated on this list many times we cannot share the WMF Grant 
Agreement (no. 5) without the explicit permission from WMF.


Rest of the documents could be made available. But the admin team is in 
the middle of audit. Let me consult Sunil (he will return to office mid 
next week) and get back on this.


Best,
Vishnu
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Vishnu]

Dear Ravi,

On Wednesday 14 May 2014 01:02 PM, Ravishankar wrote:

Vishnu,

//Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open 
them again. //


//We had also thrown open all our document to the general public for 
scrutiny during May 2013. I have written to members on this list and 
other Wikimedia lists, inviting them to come and scrutinize all our 
documents during this Open Week.//


Please let me know when is this open week for 2014.


It was done as part of the CIS's 5th anniversary. I am not sure if we 
will have a similar open week for 2014. But should we get the FDC 
funding, I would like to explore means by which the community can also 
take part in financially auditing the A2K expenses. We could discuss 
this separately, later?




I would like to come and have a look at the MoU you signed with WMF.
As stated earlier on this mailing list, we are unable to share this MoU 
as WMF has given us a clear instruction not to do so.




Since WMF is silent on answering crucial questions on the MoU, could 
you please answer one question:


What is the exit clause for your working partnership with WMF?


The Grant agreement is for two years.

Best,
Vishnu


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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Ravishankar]

Vishnu,

//Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them
again. //

//We had also thrown open all our document to the general public for
scrutiny during May 2013. I have written to members on this list and other
Wikimedia lists, inviting them to come and scrutinize all our documents
during this Open Week.//

Please let me know when is this open week for 2014.

I would like to come and have a look at the MoU you signed with WMF.

Since WMF is silent on answering crucial questions on the MoU, could you
please answer one question:

What is the exit clause for your working partnership with WMF?

Thanks,

Ravi
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Hari Prasad Nadig]

[..snip..]

On 14 May 2014 12:53, Vishnu  wrote:

>
>  I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the
> concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the
> documents for at least the sake of transparency.
>
>
> Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them
> again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every
> year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory
> compliances.
>

[...]

Noted.

Kindly make the following documents public:

   1. Information about the AGMs and elections held by CIS for its
   governing body for all these years.
   2. Latest copy of the Memorandum of Association as filed with the
   Registrar of Societies, Karnataka (as mandated by Clause 13 of the
   Karnataka Societies Registration act).
   3. The annual filings of CIS with the Registrar of Societies, Karnataka
   for all these years.
   4. The property ownership documents of the premises where CIS office
   works from.
   5. The MoU signed by CIS with WMF.
   6. The FCRA certification and compliance related documents.

Regards,
-- 
Hari Prasad Nadig
http://hpnadig.net
http://twitter.com/hpnadig
http://flickr.com/hpnadig
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Abhijeet Safai]

I feel that the salaries are ok according to Indian standards. Even they
can be considered less from some Indians seeing the kind of contribution
they are doing.

And again in the end the purpose and work is more important than salary
issue. I have a feeling that my time is being wasted by these kinds of
debates.

Thanks.

--
Abhijeet Safai


On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Vishnu  wrote:

>  Dear Hari,
>
> Please see my replies in-line.
>
>
> On Wednesday 14 May 2014 12:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
>
>   Vishnu,
>
>  There have been detailed discussion on how the salaries seem to
> overshadow everything else in CIS's proposal of *1.8 Crore*. And it is
> not just me, many other community members who have logged their comment
> there have felt that the salaries are quite extravagant to Indian
> standards. Even the staff assessment takes note of this.
>
> You yourself seem to be drawing around *24 Lakhs *per annum (which is 2
> Lakhs per month!) that excludes travel and reimbursements as declared by
> you. [1] I'm pretty sure even the readers on this mailing list recognize
> that these are pretty huge salaries that we're talking about for Indian
> standards in non-profits for the responsibilities outlined.
>
>
> Yes, it is no secret how much salary I draw or what the CIS-A2K program
> budget is and what we have proposed. Members on this list will remember
> that once I took over as the Program Director of CIS-A2K, I have ensured
> that we bring transparency to the entire CIS-A2K program including the
> project budget. We shared the entire A2K budget with the community in May
> 2013 on this list [1]. Staff salaries which also includes my salary were
> disclosed. Members on the list do know that we have taken this transparency
> measure much before the current FDC application (or at a time when we were
> not thinking about this FDC application). Neither I nor the current CIS-A2K
> team had any say in determining the salaries. There has been an extensive
> discussion on this here [2].
>
> I am afraid that in your earlier mail the proposed A2K program plans
> number was wrongly quoted along with the per-person salary and I was merely
> highlighting the right facts.
>
>
>
>  Further, on the FCRA compliance issues, the compliance to Karnataka
> Societies Act and the concerns about Conflict of Interest - there are
> apparently some grave issues *which require that more documentation is made
> public* by the CIS as stated by me at:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment#Assessment_overlooks_some_grave_concerns
>
> and at:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment#Serious_FCRA_violations.3F
>
>   We appreciated this effort on Meta here [3]. Again let me appreciate
> the community members and your effort to throw light on these concerns. As
> stated in the reply on Meta [3], and I quote here for the benefit of the
> members:
>
> "CIS has never compromised in getting the best available professional
> expertise in complying with the various statutory requirements. So at the
> outset we need to state that CIS has always complied with the statutory
> advice received from our legal adviser and whenever required also sought
> second opinion. Thus to our current understanding we are in the best
> possible compliance with the statutory requirements for the not-for-profits
> in India. However, because a few of the community members, in the interest
> of continuing support to Wikimedia movement in India, expressed serious
> concerns, CIS will take every effort to share these with our legal advisers
> for their professional opinion. This could take some days, but we are
> certainly committed to sharing our legal advisers' opinion on these matters
> with the community and FDC at the earliest. This exercise is also important
> for CIS as it will help us to put ourselves in much better compliance, if
> required."
>
> We are committed to seeking the opinion of our legal advisers on the
> concerns raised, as we respect the voice of the community members,
> including you. Also it is more in the interest of CIS to better comply with
> the statutory requirements.
>
>
>  I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the
> concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the
> documents for at least the sake of transparency.
>
>
> Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them
> again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized every
> year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various statutory
> compliances. The Income Tax department periodically scrutinizes CIS's
> accounts. All the documents are always open for scrutiny by the donors. We
> have made every document available that was asked by the WMF's visiting
> team to CIS (which includes WMF

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Vishnu]

Dear Hari,

Please see my replies in-line.

On Wednesday 14 May 2014 12:51 AM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:

Vishnu,

There have been detailed discussion on how the salaries seem to 
overshadow everything else in CIS's proposal of *1.8 Crore*. And it is 
not just me, many other community members who have logged their 
comment there have felt that the salaries are quite extravagant to 
Indian standards. Even the staff assessment takes note of this.


You yourself seem to be drawing around *24 Lakhs *per annum (which is 
2 Lakhs per month!) that excludes travel and reimbursements as 
declared by you. [1] I'm pretty sure even the readers on this mailing 
list recognize that these are pretty huge salaries that we're talking 
about for Indian standards in non-profits for the responsibilities 
outlined.


Yes, it is no secret how much salary I draw or what the CIS-A2K program 
budget is and what we have proposed. Members on this list will remember 
that once I took over as the Program Director of CIS-A2K, I have ensured 
that we bring transparency to the entire CIS-A2K program including the 
project budget. We shared the entire A2K budget with the community in 
May 2013 on this list [1]. Staff salaries which also includes my salary 
were disclosed. Members on the list do know that we have taken this 
transparency measure much before the current FDC application (or at a 
time when we were not thinking about this FDC application). Neither I 
nor the current CIS-A2K team had any say in determining the salaries. 
There has been an extensive discussion on this here [2].


I am afraid that in your earlier mail the proposed A2K program plans 
number was wrongly quoted along with the per-person salary and I was 
merely highlighting the right facts.




Further, on the FCRA compliance issues, the compliance to Karnataka 
Societies Act and the concerns about Conflict of Interest - there are 
apparently some grave issues *which require that more documentation is 
made public* by the CIS as stated by me at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment#Assessment_overlooks_some_grave_concerns

and at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment#Serious_FCRA_violations.3F

We appreciated this effort on Meta here [3]. Again let me appreciate the 
community members and your effort to throw light on these concerns. As 
stated in the reply on Meta [3], and I quote here for the benefit of the 
members:


"CIS has never compromised in getting the best available professional 
expertise in complying with the various statutory requirements. So at 
the outset we need to state that CIS has always complied with the 
statutory advice received from our legal adviser and whenever required 
also sought second opinion. Thus to our current understanding we are in 
the best possible compliance with the statutory requirements for the 
not-for-profits in India. However, because a few of the community 
members, in the interest of continuing support to Wikimedia movement in 
India, expressed serious concerns, CIS will take every effort to share 
these with our legal advisers for their professional opinion. This could 
take some days, but we are certainly committed to sharing our legal 
advisers' opinion on these matters with the community and FDC at the 
earliest. This exercise is also important for CIS as it will help us to 
put ourselves in much better compliance, if required."


We are committed to seeking the opinion of our legal advisers on the 
concerns raised, as we respect the voice of the community members, 
including you. Also it is more in the interest of CIS to better comply 
with the statutory requirements.


I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the 
concerns are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open 
up the documents for at least the sake of transparency.


Please note that CIS has never kept its documents closed to open them 
again. CIS gets its financial and institutional documents scrutinized 
every year and reports to multiple authorities as part of various 
statutory compliances. The Income Tax department periodically 
scrutinizes CIS's accounts. All the documents are always open for 
scrutiny by the donors. We have made every document available that was 
asked by the WMF's visiting team to CIS (which includes WMF's CFO 
Garfield Byrd) in February 2014.  We had also thrown open all our 
document to the general public for scrutiny during May 2013. I have 
written to members on this list and other Wikimedia lists, inviting them 
to come and scrutinize all our documents during this Open Week. Please 
see the announcement here [4].


Thanks for engaging with CIS-A2K's work, which we always appreciate.

Best,
Vishnu

[1] 
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2013-May/009980.html


[2] 
https://me

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Hari Prasad Nadig]

Vishnu,

There have been detailed discussion on how the salaries seem to overshadow
everything else in CIS's proposal of *1.8 Crore*. And it is not just me,
many other community members who have logged their comment there have felt
that the salaries are quite extravagant to Indian standards. Even the staff
assessment takes note of this.

You yourself seem to be drawing around *24 Lakhs *per annum (which is 2
Lakhs per month!) that excludes travel and reimbursements as declared by
you. [1] I'm pretty sure even the readers on this mailing list recognize
that these are pretty huge salaries that we're talking about for Indian
standards in non-profits for the responsibilities outlined.

Further, on the FCRA compliance issues, the compliance to Karnataka
Societies Act and the concerns about Conflict of Interest - there are
apparently some grave issues *which require that more documentation is made
public* by the CIS as stated by me at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment#Assessment_overlooks_some_grave_concerns

and at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment#Serious_FCRA_violations.3F

I'm afraid that just the explanations may not suffice here as the concerns
are serious in nature. I sincerely hope that you shall open up the
documents for at least the sake of transparency.

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form#CIS_Staff_details


On 13 May 2014 18:43, Vishnu  wrote:

>  Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Some responses here on Meta [1] on behalf of CIS. I have also commented in
> my individual capacity on the statutory aspects to the best of my
> knowledge. Also see some in-line replies.
>
>
> On Monday 12 May 2014 05:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
>
>  Fellow Wikimedians,
>
> As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought
> funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia
> Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that
> includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
>  The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the
> CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as
> outlined on their proposal page.
>
>
> As may of you know, please note that CIS has proposed the said budget to
> implement 21 plans of which there are 7 language area plans, 8 stand along
> projects, 3 community strengthening initiatives, etc.
>
>
>  The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th
> and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community
> members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being
> paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to
> 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
>
>
> As you may have already seen in the budget, please note that the salary
> proposed is for 7 employees on the CIS-A2K team and the average per person
> salary would come to less than 1 lakh per month, per person and not as
> stated above.
>
> CIS-A2K welcomes your feedback and suggestions.
>
> Thank you,
> Vishnu
>
>
>  [1] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [2] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [3] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads
>
>
>
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>


-- 
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http://twitter.com/hpnadig
http://flickr.com/hpnadig
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Ravishankar]

Vishnu,

All your proposed plans can be done and have been done by community for
years with ZERO staff cost.

Please don't justify your program budget by including inflated staff salary
as a part of it.

Ravi
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Karthik Nadar]

Hi all,

Please find my reply inline.

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Vishnu  wrote:

>  Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Some responses here on Meta [1] on behalf of CIS. I have also commented in
> my individual capacity on the statutory aspects to the best of my
> knowledge. Also see some in-line replies.
>
>
> On Monday 12 May 2014 05:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:
>
>  Fellow Wikimedians,
>
> As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought
> funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia
> Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that
> includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
>  The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the
> CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as
> outlined on their proposal page.
>
>
> As may of you know, please note that CIS has proposed the said budget to
> implement 21 plans of which there are 7 language area plans, 8 stand along
> projects, 3 community strengthening initiatives, etc.
>
>
>  The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th
> and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community
> members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being
> paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to
> 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).
>
>
> As you may have already seen in the budget, please note that the salary
> proposed is for 7 employees on the CIS-A2K team and the average per person
> salary would come to less than 1 lakh per month, per person and not as
> stated above.
>

Vishnu, I believe CIS has already agreed on the proposal page on meta that
the CIS-A2K are above industry standard. Please stop trying to mislead the
lost. What Hari said is that one of the Salary is about 2 lakhs INR and I
believe that is true. The WMIN propose for staff is also public and the
median of that is less than half of what CIS proposes.


>
> CIS-A2K welcomes your feedback and suggestions.
>
> Thank you,
> Vishnu
>
>
>  [1] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [2] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [3] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Vishnu]

Dear Wikimedians,

Some responses here on Meta [1] on behalf of CIS. I have also commented 
in my individual capacity on the statutory aspects to the best of my 
knowledge. Also see some in-line replies.


On Monday 12 May 2014 05:45 PM, Hari Prasad Nadig wrote:

Fellow Wikimedians,

As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought 
funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia 
Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India 
that includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the 
CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as 
outlined on their proposal page.


As may of you know, please note that CIS has proposed the said budget to 
implement 21 plans of which there are 7 language area plans, 8 stand 
along projects, 3 community strengthening initiatives, etc.




The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th 
and many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community 
members have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries 
being paid and that being proposed - are quite on the higher side 
(which is up to 2.4 Lakhs per month per person).


As you may have already seen in the budget, please note that the salary 
proposed is for 7 employees on the CIS-A2K team and the average per 
person salary would come to less than 1 lakh per month, per person and 
not as stated above.


CIS-A2K welcomes your feedback and suggestions.

Thank you,
Vishnu

[1] - 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
[2] - 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
[3] - 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads



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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] On CIS's grants request from Wikimedia Foundation

[Srikanth Ramakrishnan]

Hi all, I have one important question here.
The Foreign Contribution Regulatory Act prohibits money received from
abroad to be used as payments or salaries to anyone employed with the press
or media.
I believe Dr. Pavanaja is a columnist for Prajavani. How does this work out?
It's just a preemptive question.



On 12 May 2014 17:45, Hari Prasad Nadig  wrote:

> Fellow Wikimedians,
>
> As you all know, Center for Internet and Society, Bangalore has sought
> funding of about *1.8 Crores* through the FDC process from Wikimedia
> Foundation to carry out work on seven local language projects in India that
> includes Kannada, Telugu among others. [1]
> The funds primarily cover the salaries of the people belonging to the
> CIS-A2K team among other administrative expenses and other expenses as
> outlined on their proposal page.
>
> The proposal was up for Community review and comments until April 30th and
> many have recorded their response about it [2]. Several community members
> have come forward in pointing out that the staff salaries being paid and
> that being proposed - are quite on the higher side (which is up to 2.4
> Lakhs per month per person).
>
> Apart from the concerns on extremely high salaries for Indian norms of the
> team members of CIS-A2K team, there have been some serious concerns raised
> about some apparent Conflict of Interest [3] and non-compliance with the
> local laws (mainly Karnataka Societies act and the Foreign Contribution
> Regulation Act).
>
> However, looks like the proposal has moved forward through the FDC process
> for funding despite the concerns raised and has gotten through to the next
> stage.
>
> More concerns have now been raised by several community members on the
> Staff Assessment discussion page here:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Staff_proposal_assessment
>
> I invite you to participate in the discussion and help steer this in the
> right direction.
>
> [1] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [2] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form
> [3] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads
>
> Thank you,
> --
> Hari Prasad Nadig
> http://hpnadig.net
> http://twitter.com/hpnadig
> http://flickr.com/hpnadig
>
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>
>


-- 
Regards,
Srikanth Ramakrishnan,
What goes around, may not necessarily come around, it may simply bounce
back.

Please sign this petition for Volvo buses in Coimbatore:
https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/the-transport-minister-tamil-nadu-introduction-of-volvo-city-buses-in-the-city-of-coimbatore
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