Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)

[Scottie Arnett]

Mark,

I am a little late on this reply, got backed up on list emailsanyways.
http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/ccpcoatings/north01.htm   They are called
Saf-T-Climb. That is the type  that are on the tanks we have equipment on.

HTH,
Scottie

-Original Message-
From: Mark McElvy [mailto:mmce...@accubak.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:30 PM
To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)


I have the pipe type on one of my water towers, where do you get and what do
you call the device to connect to it?

Mark 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)

They use that type safety(pipe with notches) on most water tanks in my area.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown - 3" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:01:50 -0700

>No but you could fall down and get so tangled up the rescue would be
>difficult.  I have climbed caged ladders that had a pipe up the center
of 
>the ladder with small ratchet notches in it.  The arrester device was a
pipe 
>looking thing that would slide up the safety pipe/rail.  It had a
spring 
>loaded dog that would engage the notches if you fell.  I thought it was
a 
>pretty good system.
>- Original Message -
>From: "3-dB Networks" 
>To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)
>
>
>> That's what the safety cage is for. if you fall basically you should
only 
>> be
>> leaning back on the cage.
>>
>>
>>
>> You technically shouldn't be able to fall with a safety cage.
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> 3-dB Networks
>>
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
>> Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:30 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Grain leg safety cage (was Re: Tower accident)
>>
>>
>>
>> What happens when you fall?
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> John Valenti wrote:
>>
>> Brian,
>> Why would you want to add a safety cable to the cage?  I'm on several 
>> legs with the cages and they seem great. I usually just lean back to 
>> take a break while climbing.
>>
>> It seems like an unnecessary bother, and something else to get in the 
>> way while climbing the ladder.  Just curious what your thinking is, 
>> maybe I'm missing something. -John
>>
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2009, at 9:20 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seriously thought about putting a cable going up the center of 
>> the ladders on all the elevator legs we're on.  There is already one 
>> on the leg that has no cage.  Then we could clip on a go, with either 
>> a belt or a light harness (unlike my big sit down elk river harness
that
>> is a little heavy).  Anyone run these cable before?  What is needed?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> 
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Re: [WISPA] The good college try

[reader]

Forbes, I'm not far away from you, and if you ever need network type help, 
feel free to holler.

I love the technical stuff.   Don't much care for the paperwork or installs 
in the rain, or climbing ladders, or climbing into the bucket on the 
truck...







- Original Message - 
From: "Forbes Mercy" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: [WISPA] The good college try


> The modern day WISP that is smaller has to run more efficiently, I lost
> my system admin in the last budget cut.  He helps from his new job but
> the network is pretty much up to me, a former ISP owner and not the most
> technically inclined as I should be.  Obviously I have more knowledge
> than the average bear but reading code, design specs or engineering can
> sometimes be a bit much, that's why I have the savings from a full time
> admin to hire people who can guide me.  My feeling is Marlon is pretty
> much in the same boat.  While some in WISPA have thousands of customers
> in more urban/suburban environments we are all rural.  Speaking only for
> myself I'm frequently in over my head, that's why I belong to this
> group, I'm a much better businessman than tech but I learn easily when I
> have interest in a topic.  We try not to look dumb when we ask for help
> and try to compensate for the help with volunteering for projects,
> paying for consulting or just a big thanks.  Some on here may think
> non-geeks don't belong but we're all in this for the same reason, I
> personally left the Fire Service to learn and build this business, Maybe
> I can't engineer a backhaul but I can sure do CPR if you need it, done
> it over 200 times.  Just show a little patience and if you don't want to
> educate the ignorant that's your right but we sure appreciate it when
> you can help and I for one promise to not ask for too much at once or
> act like our lovely customers who can't find the start button.  Thanks
> for what you do help, I appreciate it!
>
>
>
> Forbes
>
>
>
> 
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>
> Marlon,
>
> Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in
> over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from
> someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are
> doing.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network
> is
> build in a circle?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Travis Johnson"  
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>
>
> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop.
> Figure
> $15,000 per link for everything.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to
> 20 miles.  Some
> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>
> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal
> internet traffic.
>
> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a
> ring.  I can load
> share
> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below
> 100megs.  I'll want
> things to be automatically self healing if there is a
> loss of
> connectivity
> in any direction.
>
> What would you guys use/suggest?
>
> I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna
> sizes) but
> unlicensed
> may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
>
> We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust
> storms.
>
> What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
>
> I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are
> welcome.  Pall park
> numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to
> run high vs. low,
> I'd
> rather over estimate the costs.
>
> thanks,
> marlon
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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> -

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jack Unger]

Yes, but the system doesn't have to fail before the WISP who supplies 
the homebrew 4.9 system gets blown out of the water. All one person 
would have to do is point out to the City that the equipment that they 
have been sold is uncertified and illegal to use per FCC rules. What 
Police Department IT guy (or Police Chief) is going to accept that and 
put his own career on the line just because some WISP didn't tell him 
the truth about the equipment that they sold the Police Department?

3-dB Networks wrote:
> I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the
> police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because
> of it.  Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well.
> The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's the
> wrath of the city when a mission critical system like this fails.
>
>  
>
> I've heard a lot of stories from Motorola two-way guys how they could go
> into meetings and cities would buy their two-way gear and pay the extra
> price because no one wants to take chances with people's lives.  Help the
> city find the grant money to purchase a system like Moto's. and your going
> to be the hero big time.  Take it one step farther and do a Motomesh Quatro
> deployment. have grant money pay for the gear. and use the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi
> coverage you now have to sell service.  Since the gear is paid for your ROI
> is in a much better situation than the average muni-wifi project.  Or take
> it one step further and get the water department to use it for meter
> reading, etc.  
>
>  
>
> At the end of the day money isn't an issue really for something like this.
> its just about getting the right people together and FINDING the money for
> it.
>
>  
>
> Daniel White
>
> 3-dB Networks
>
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>  
>
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jack Unger
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>  
>
> Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz "homebrew" would likely lose their
> business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that
> was sold the illegal system by the WISP.  OUCH!!
>
> 3-dB Networks wrote: 
>
> I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably
> more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like
> the price if your trying to do it on the cheap.  The sell to a city or
> county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can
> get grants, etc. for public safety.  
>  
> 4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system...
> and Mesh is costly.  I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system
> to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised.  You also need
> to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be
> high on your list.
>  
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>  
>  
>   
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>  
> Hmmm, can you price a system like this out?  I'll need per tower and per
> node prices.
>  
> Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew
> system
> due to long term costs though
>  
> marlon
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: "3-dB Networks"   
> To: "'WISPA General List'"   
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>  
>  
> 
>
> That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture
>   
>
> (developed
> 
>
> for
> the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car
>   
>
> to be
> 
>
> traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work.  Plus to modems you
>   
>
> install
> 
>
> in
> the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can
>   
>
> connect
> 
>
> to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can
>   
>
> mesh
> 
>
> through another car to work.
>  
> I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a
>   
>
> homebrew
> 
>
> solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete
>   
>
> turnkey
> 
>
> package available (not that any of it is cheap!)
>  
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>  
>  
>   
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> 
>
> On
> 
>
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>  
> Got it.  Thanks!
>  
> Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>  
> The only reas

Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

[Forbes Mercy]

Mark,

Yes we've seen this, we use NS2's on a variety of boards.  We replaced
the board, changed the connections and relocated the antenna.  Weather
doesn't seem to affect it and the calls certainly increase as the noise
floor is approached in the -87's to -90's.  We put in an Engeinus CB3
and problem went away.  Three boards, two chips and no go except another
brand.  Never really found an answer except changing brands of antenna's
helped.  I'm sure it's interference related but its hard to put my
finger on it.

Forbes

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP.  

In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs.  Now
they're at -85(ish) and not really usable.

We've replaced several boards & radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these
radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP & clients are
Valemount WAR4's).  Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients & Pac
Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP.

Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be
grounded (including antenna and card).

We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if
there's a problem with them.

I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things???


Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com




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Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[lists]

StarOS will meet the specs of what you need to do.  Two X4000 radios with 
dual pol panels will run full-duplex around the 50-55meg level. 

http://www.star-os.com/store/ 

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com 

Travis Johnson writes: 

>  
> 
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[WISPA] The good college try

[Forbes Mercy]

The modern day WISP that is smaller has to run more efficiently, I lost
my system admin in the last budget cut.  He helps from his new job but
the network is pretty much up to me, a former ISP owner and not the most
technically inclined as I should be.  Obviously I have more knowledge
than the average bear but reading code, design specs or engineering can
sometimes be a bit much, that's why I have the savings from a full time
admin to hire people who can guide me.  My feeling is Marlon is pretty
much in the same boat.  While some in WISPA have thousands of customers
in more urban/suburban environments we are all rural.  Speaking only for
myself I'm frequently in over my head, that's why I belong to this
group, I'm a much better businessman than tech but I learn easily when I
have interest in a topic.  We try not to look dumb when we ask for help
and try to compensate for the help with volunteering for projects,
paying for consulting or just a big thanks.  Some on here may think
non-geeks don't belong but we're all in this for the same reason, I
personally left the Fire Service to learn and build this business, Maybe
I can't engineer a backhaul but I can sure do CPR if you need it, done
it over 200 times.  Just show a little patience and if you don't want to
educate the ignorant that's your right but we sure appreciate it when
you can help and I for one promise to not ask for too much at once or
act like our lovely customers who can't find the start button.  Thanks
for what you do help, I appreciate it!

 

Forbes

 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

 

Marlon,

Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in
over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from
someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they are
doing.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 

Thanks.
 
Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network
is 
build in a circle?
marlon
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson"   
To: "WISPA General List" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
 
 
  

Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop.
Figure
$15,000 per link for everything.
 
Travis
Microserv
 
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


Hi All,
 
I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to
20 miles.  Some
links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
 
I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal
internet traffic.
 
I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a
ring.  I can load 
share
across the ring as long as speeds never drop below
100megs.  I'll want
things to be automatically self healing if there is a
loss of 
connectivity
in any direction.
 
What would you guys use/suggest?
 
I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna
sizes) but 
unlicensed
may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
 
We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust
storms.
 
What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
 
I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are
welcome.  Pall park
numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to
run high vs. low, 
I'd
rather over estimate the costs.
 
thanks,
marlon
 
 
 



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Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[Travis Johnson]

The Mikrotik solution can be done... but you will need a lot of clean
spectrum to make it happen. At only a mile, you could use an RB433AH
with a couple SR5 cards on each side. There is even an integrated
antenna that will hold all of this, and provide vertical and horizontal
antennas in the same enclosure
(http://www.titanwirelessonline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AT-19DP-58-R2)

2 x RB433AH
4 x SR5 cards
2 x dual pol antenna enclosures with pigtails

I would estimate total cost of parts to be less than $800. A couple
hours to build, test and configure and you should be good to go. The
only real challenge will be finding two open 40mhz wide channels.
However, I would think that could be done in the 5.3ghz and 5.4ghz
bands without a problem.

Travis
Microserv

Ryan Ghering wrote:

  ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED
40 to 50 meg full duplex.
and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I
get the bid for this project if
I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm
not sure I can make it happen
do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see
that microtik has a unit they say can do
60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have
experiance with them?

Ryan

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG  wrote:

  
  
Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more?
-RickG

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:



  An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly
  

cheaper...


  PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it...
  

but


  that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


  
  
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for
a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to
find for this kind of bandwidth.

Travis
Microserv

Ryan Ghering wrote:


  I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear
  

is


  preferred as this is a low budget hop.
Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this
  

capacity?


  Thanks
Ryan


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Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[Brad Belton]

I've seen Terabridge 5845's listed for $3000.00.  That radio is a true no
bullshit 45Mbps FDX radio.  We've had several in use over the years and they
are pretty awesome...<1ms latency, etc, etc.  They used to be $10k - $15k
radios during their prime.  IMO, they are still superior to most any other
UL PtP radio.

We've been pulling them down and replacing them with licensed links
primarily due to capacity needs.  45Mbps doesn't do us much good these days
when our clients are looking for 100Mbps+...but it's a good problem to have!

http://cgi.ebay.com/PROXIM-TERABRIDGE-5845-LINK-KIT-w-CABLES-POWER-NEW_W0QQi
temZ140304191357

Whenever I get some time I'll start posting our used Terabridges for sale at
attractive prices.  They will make great spares to the new units bizsyscon
is selling.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Ryan Ghering
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED
40 to 50 meg full duplex.
and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I
get the bid for this project if
I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm
not sure I can make it happen
do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see
that microtik has a unit they say can do
60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have
experiance with them?

Ryan

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG  wrote:

> Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more?
> -RickG
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:
>
> > An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly
> cheaper...
> >
> > PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it...
> but
> > that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop.
> >
> > Daniel White
> > 3-dB Networks
> > http://www.3dbnetworks.com
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > >Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM
> > >To: WISPA General List
> > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
> > >
> > >The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000
for
> > >a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to
> > >find for this kind of bandwidth.
> > >
> > >Travis
> > >Microserv
> > >
> > >Ryan Ghering wrote:
> > >> I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear
> > >is
> > >> preferred as this is a low budget hop.
> > >> Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this
> > >capacity?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> Ryan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
--
> > >--
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
--
> > >--
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> > >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
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>


> >
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> >
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> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>


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>
>


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>




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http://l

Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

[Blair Davis]

I've been using Delorme Topo for years.  you have to know your trees,
but it works fine to see if a link is possable or not

RickG wrote:

  I made some notes when I first started using RM (attached). RM gives great
results once you get the hang of it but for quick & dirty just use Delorme
Topo.
-RickG

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  
  
OK, I have that in there.  Nothing happened.

Just send WHAT?  An email?  What's it supposed to say?

I'm probably the only guy that that's NEVER used and ATM too.  I don't have
a PIN number or anything.  If I'm gonna need cash I just go to the bank and
get some.  How hard is that?  Plus I get to talk to the cute gals there.
People are s much nicer to deal with that machines.  Well, usually.
grin

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile




  For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct terrain
data as needed.
- Open RM
- Options
- Internet
- Internet ftp directory -> other -> Enter the following ftp appending
your region at the end
ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/

To determine your region:
ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg

Check ZIP

So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like:
ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/

Let me know when you have this set up.

As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it
to jrichard...@aircloud.com.


__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

I understand that.  Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it?

Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy!  How hard can it be to
put a good install program in place?  Or a map (hey, what a thing for a
mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data
you are interested in
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Mark McElvy" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile


  
  
You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what

  
  it
  
  
can.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

  
  On
  
  
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

Sold!

I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the
srtm.
I don't know which data set to get.  WHAT a POS system this is!

Also, I don't have paypal.  If you'll take a cc or check I'm in.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile




  I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour.

You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to
  

  
  do
  
  

  that?

We can use ZOHO Web Meeting.

Price 100.00 paid via PayPal

__

airCloud Communications
Broadband for Business
Public and Private WiFi

Jerry Richardson
VP Operations
925-260-4119
_

ConsuWISP
RF Topographical Coverage Maps
Network Optimization and Planning
Network Design and Troubleshooting
Installer and Technician Training

Please consider the environment before printing this email


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  

On


  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of
documentation.

I'll pay someone for their time.

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile


  
  
Uhm...ya...

Try this...

http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it,

  

  
  poorly.
  
  

  
--- Henry Spencer


On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
wrote:



  Hi All,

I need to learn how to use this program.  I can't even figure out

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[Ryan Ghering]

ok after talking with the client they have informed me that they only NEED
40 to 50 meg full duplex.
and they are very price conscious as well. I was informed late today that I
get the bid for this project if
I can do it for under 5 grand. So with labor and a small bit of profit, I'm
not sure I can make it happen
do the unlicensed products like microtik or staros meet these specs. I see
that microtik has a unit they say can do
60 to 80 meg. but whats the real bandwidth like and does anyone have
experiance with them?

Ryan

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, RickG  wrote:

> Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more?
> -RickG
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:
>
> > An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly
> cheaper...
> >
> > PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it...
> but
> > that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop.
> >
> > Daniel White
> > 3-dB Networks
> > http://www.3dbnetworks.com
> >
> >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > >Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM
> > >To: WISPA General List
> > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
> > >
> > >The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for
> > >a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to
> > >find for this kind of bandwidth.
> > >
> > >Travis
> > >Microserv
> > >
> > >Ryan Ghering wrote:
> > >> I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear
> > >is
> > >> preferred as this is a low budget hop.
> > >> Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this
> > >capacity?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> Ryan
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >--
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >> --
> > >--
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[RickG]

Why would you go unlicensed if you can go licensed for slightly more?
-RickG

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper...
>
> PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but
> that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop.
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
> >
> >The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for
> >a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to
> >find for this kind of bandwidth.
> >
> >Travis
> >Microserv
> >
> >Ryan Ghering wrote:
> >> I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear
> >is
> >> preferred as this is a low budget hop.
> >> Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this
> >capacity?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Ryan
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >--
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> --
> >--
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> >Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

[RickG]

I made some notes when I first started using RM (attached). RM gives great
results once you get the hang of it but for quick & dirty just use Delorme
Topo.
-RickG

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> OK, I have that in there.  Nothing happened.
>
> Just send WHAT?  An email?  What's it supposed to say?
>
> I'm probably the only guy that that's NEVER used and ATM too.  I don't have
> a PIN number or anything.  If I'm gonna need cash I just go to the bank and
> get some.  How hard is that?  Plus I get to talk to the cute gals there.
> People are s much nicer to deal with that machines.  Well, usually.
> grin
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
>
>
> > For Terrain data, set up RM to automatically grab the correct terrain
> > data as needed.
> > - Open RM
> > - Options
> > - Internet
> > - Internet ftp directory -> other -> Enter the following ftp appending
> > your region at the end
> > ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/
> >
> > To determine your region:
> > ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_definition.jpg
> >
> > Check ZIP
> >
> > So if you are region 2 your FTP address will look like:
> > ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM1/Region_02/
> >
> > Let me know when you have this set up.
> >
> > As far as payment, you can do PayPal without an account - just send it
> > to jrichard...@aircloud.com.
> >
> >
> > __
> > Jerry Richardson
> > airCloud Communications
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:25 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >
> > I understand that.  Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it?
> >
> > Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy!  How hard can it be to
> > put a good install program in place?  Or a map (hey, what a thing for a
> > mapping program to include!) that you can click on to download the data
> > you are interested in
> > marlon
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Mark McElvy" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >
> >
> >> You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what
> > it
> >> can.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> >> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>
> >> Sold!
> >>
> >> I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the
> >> srtm.
> >> I don't know which data set to get.  WHAT a POS system this is!
> >>
> >> Also, I don't have paypal.  If you'll take a cc or check I'm in.
> >>
> >> laters,
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour.
> >>>
> >>> You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to
> > do
> >>> that?
> >>>
> >>> We can use ZOHO Web Meeting.
> >>>
> >>> Price 100.00 paid via PayPal
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>>
> >>> airCloud Communications
> >>> Broadband for Business
> >>> Public and Private WiFi
> >>>
> >>> Jerry Richardson
> >>> VP Operations
> >>> 925-260-4119
> >>> _
> >>>
> >>> ConsuWISP
> >>> RF Topographical Coverage Maps
> >>> Network Optimization and Planning
> >>> Network Design and Troubleshooting
> >>> Installer and Technician Training
> >>>
> >>> Please consider the environment before printing this email
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> >> On
> >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM
> >>> To: WISPA General List
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>>
> >>> I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of
> >>> documentation.
> >>>
> >>> I'll pay someone for their time.
> >>>
> >>> thanks,
> >>> marlon
> >>>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> >>> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>>
> >>>
>  Uhm...ya...
> 
>  Try this...
> 
>  http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html
> 
>  Josh Luthman
>  Office: 937-552-2340
>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>  1100 Wayne St
>  Suite 1337
>  Troy, OH 45373
> 
>  Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it,
> > poorly.
>  --- H

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[John Thomas]

Are any of the towers setup such that you could cross the circle?

In other words, if you had towers 1 to 20 in a ring, have a secondary 
link between towers 4 and 16 for instance.

This would require routing, and preferably dynamic routing, but then you 
would have some redundancy.

John



Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>
> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage 
> at 18 gig?
>
> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? 
> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. 
> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>   
>> The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for
>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary
>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
>> maybe not at full speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
>> build in a circle?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Travis Johnson" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> 
>>> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
>>> $15,000 per link for everything.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>   
 Hi All,

 I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
 links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

 I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet 
 traffic.

 I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
 share
 across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
 things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
 connectivity
 in any direction.

 What would you guys use/suggest?

 I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
 unlicensed
 may be OK due to the failover capabilities.

 We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.

 What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?

 I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
 numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low,
 I'd
 rather over estimate the costs.

 thanks,
 marlon



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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[John Thomas]

These will do what you want

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/routers/ps272/ps6990/product_data_sheet0900aecd804c207b.html

John

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> OK, last one.
>
> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high speeds 
> to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters, but it's not 
> the driving force here.
>
> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across 
> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not only 
> to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be able to 
> remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that will facilitate 
> this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile 
> network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>
> thanks!
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.

[Mike Hammett]

This legal action comes as the FCC was just starting to implement its white 
space order. The agency finally published the decision in the Federal 
Register in mid-February, announcing that its rules would become effective 
on March 19. And the Commission has begun talking to parties about setting 
up the databases needed to protect TV channels and unlicensed microphones 
from interference.

Anyone have a link to the Federal Register item pertaining to us?

If the decision was supposedly illegal, wouldn't Congress passing a law 
allowing\forcing this solve that issue?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:58 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" ; "'Motorola Canopy User 
Group'" 
Subject: [WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.

> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/broadcasters-sue-fcc-over-wh
> ite-space-broadband-decision.ars
>
>
> Scottie
>
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
>
> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as 
> $30.00/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> 



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Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

[os10rules]

Interference?

Greg
On Mar 4, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Mark Nash wrote:

> One AP with one radio.
>
> We've gone through the moisture issue.  Originally, Ubiquiti thought  
> that
> the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground  
> each
> piece of equipment.  We did that, bought new radios, but still  
> couldn't get
> back to our original signal levels.
>
> How about antennas?  Anyone have suggestions on base station  
> antennas?  I
> believe the pac antenna is a 120* VPol sector antenna.
>
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
>
>
>> One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP?
>>
>> First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mark Nash
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
>>
>> We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP.
>>
>> In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs.  Now
>> they're at -85(ish) and not really usable.
>>
>> We've replaced several boards & radio cards ($250 a pop for one of  
>> these
>> radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP & clients are
>> Valemount WAR4's).  Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients & Pac
>> Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP.
>>
>> Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be
>> grounded (including antenna and card).
>>
>> We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if
>> there's a problem with them.
>>
>> I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things???
>>
>>
>> Mark Nash
>> UnwiredWest
>> 78 Centennial Loop
>> Suite E
>> Eugene, OR 97401
>> 541-998-
>> 541-998-5599 fax
>> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[3-dB Networks]

I'd just hate to be the guy deploying a 4.9GHz homebrew system that the
police/fire come to depend on and have it fail on me and someone die because
of it.  Systems like these should cost a lot of money to be built very well.
The FCC would really be the last person I would be concerned about. it's the
wrath of the city when a mission critical system like this fails.

 

I've heard a lot of stories from Motorola two-way guys how they could go
into meetings and cities would buy their two-way gear and pay the extra
price because no one wants to take chances with people's lives.  Help the
city find the grant money to purchase a system like Moto's. and your going
to be the hero big time.  Take it one step farther and do a Motomesh Quatro
deployment. have grant money pay for the gear. and use the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi
coverage you now have to sell service.  Since the gear is paid for your ROI
is in a much better situation than the average muni-wifi project.  Or take
it one step further and get the water department to use it for meter
reading, etc.  

 

At the end of the day money isn't an issue really for something like this.
its just about getting the right people together and FINDING the money for
it.

 

Daniel White

3-dB Networks

http://www.3dbnetworks.com

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

 

Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz "homebrew" would likely lose their
business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police Department that
was sold the illegal system by the WISP.  OUCH!!

3-dB Networks wrote: 

I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably
more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like
the price if your trying to do it on the cheap.  The sell to a city or
county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can
get grants, etc. for public safety.  
 
4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system...
and Mesh is costly.  I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system
to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised.  You also need
to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be
high on your list.
 
Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com
 
 
  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
 
Hmmm, can you price a system like this out?  I'll need per tower and per
node prices.
 
Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew
system
due to long term costs though
 
marlon
 
- Original Message -
From: "3-dB Networks"   
To: "'WISPA General List'"   
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
 
 


That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture
  

(developed


for
the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car
  

to be


traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work.  Plus to modems you
  

install


in
the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can
  

connect


to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can
  

mesh


through another car to work.
 
I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a
  

homebrew


solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete
  

turnkey


package available (not that any of it is cheap!)
 
Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com
 
 
  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]


On


Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
 
Got it.  Thanks!
 
Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
 
The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a


pursuit


or
code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's


laptop


and
push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could also use
an ip
enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call.  This
would
allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the
officer
on scene.
 
laters,
marlon
 
- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson"  

To: "WISPA General List"   
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
 
 


Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS.
  

Seems
   

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jack Unger]

Good point Daniel. Anyone doing 4.9 GHz "homebrew" would likely lose
their business when the FCC came knocking along with the Police
Department that was sold the illegal system by the WISP.  OUCH!!

3-dB Networks wrote:

  I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably
more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like
the price if your trying to do it on the cheap.  The sell to a city or
county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can
get grants, etc. for public safety.  

4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system...
and Mesh is costly.  I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system
to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised.  You also need
to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be
high on your list.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


  
  
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

Hmmm, can you price a system like this out?  I'll need per tower and per
node prices.

Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew
system
due to long term costs though

marlon

- Original Message -
From: "3-dB Networks" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9




  That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture
  

(developed


  for
the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car
  

to be


  traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work.  Plus to modems you
  

install


  in
the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can
  

connect


  to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can
  

mesh


  through another car to work.

I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a
  

homebrew


  solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete
  

turnkey


  package available (not that any of it is cheap!)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


  
  
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

  

On


  
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

Got it.  Thanks!

Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?

The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a

  

pursuit


  
or
code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's

  

laptop


  
and
push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could also use
an ip
enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call.  This
would
allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the
officer
on scene.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9




  Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS.
  

  

Seems


  

  that band would be outstanding for mobile use.

Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
  

SSID/VLAN


  which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower
  

  

-


  

  the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.

Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple
  

  

networks.


  

  
__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
  

On


  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

OK, last one.

What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
  

but


  it's not the driving force here.

Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam
  
  

Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[3-dB Networks]

An unlicensed Dragonwave 24GHz link will get you there slightly cheaper... 

PtP600 is the only unlicensed radio that I know of that could do it... but
that's going to be more expensive than the Dragonwave hop.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 2:47 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed
>
>The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for
>a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to
>find for this kind of bandwidth.
>
>Travis
>Microserv
>
>Ryan Ghering wrote:
>> I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear
>is
>> preferred as this is a low budget hop.
>> Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this
>capacity?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> --
>--
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>--
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[3-dB Networks]

I can only quote the MotoMesh Duo today... MotoMesh Solo though is probably
more along the lines of what you want... either way your not going to like
the price if your trying to do it on the cheap.  The sell to a city or
county though should work though with more expensive gear because they can
get grants, etc. for public safety.  

4.9GHz to the car though is going to be hard to do without a Mesh system...
and Mesh is costly.  I'd hate to be the one to sell a homebrew 4.9GHz system
to a government agency and have it not perform as advertised.  You also need
to be careful... 4.9GHz is part 90 not part-15 so FCC compliance should be
high on your list.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:28 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>Hmmm, can you price a system like this out?  I'll need per tower and per
>node prices.
>
>Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew
>system
>due to long term costs though
>
>marlon
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "3-dB Networks" 
>To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture
>(developed
>> for
>> the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car
>to be
>> traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work.  Plus to modems you
>install
>> in
>> the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can
>connect
>> to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can
>mesh
>> through another car to work.
>>
>> I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a
>homebrew
>> solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete
>turnkey
>> package available (not that any of it is cheap!)
>>
>> Daniel White
>> 3-dB Networks
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>On
>>>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM
>>>To: WISPA General List
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>>
>>>Got it.  Thanks!
>>>
>>>Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>>>
>>>The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a
>pursuit
>>>or
>>>code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's
>laptop
>>>and
>>>push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could also use
>>>an ip
>>>enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call.  This
>>>would
>>>allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the
>>>officer
>>>on scene.
>>>
>>>laters,
>>>marlon
>>>
>>>- Original Message -
>>>From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>>
>>>
 Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
 solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS.
>Seems
 that band would be outstanding for mobile use.

 Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
>>>SSID/VLAN
 which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
 This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower
>-
 the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.

 Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple
>networks.


 __
 Jerry Richardson
 airCloud Communications

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

 OK, last one.

 What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
 speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
>>>but
 it's not the driving force here.

 Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam
>across
 multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is
>not
 only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to
>always
 be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
>>>will
 facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
 square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?

 thanks!
 marlon



 
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[WISPA] Broadcasters sue FCC over white space broadband decision.

[Scottie Arnett]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/broadcasters-sue-fcc-over-wh
ite-space-broadband-decision.ars


Scottie
 

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Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.



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Re: [WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[Travis Johnson]

The most cost effective solution is going to be licensed. At $11,000 for 
a complete link, that's probably the cheapest thing you are going to 
find for this kind of bandwidth.

Travis
Microserv

Ryan Ghering wrote:
> I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is
> preferred as this is a low budget hop.
> Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity?
>
> Thanks
> Ryan
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Short 100Meg full duplex hop needed

[Ryan Ghering]

I'm in need run a link 100 meg full duplex at 1 mile. Unlicensed gear is
preferred as this is a low budget hop.
Any recommendations for this? Anything like microtik that has this capacity?

Thanks
Ryan



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Re: [WISPA] grant funds ideas

[reader]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ross Cornett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] grant funds ideas


> I have yet to receive any communication or dollars from my government, 
> other
> than to spend more money on their so called public safety initiatives, 
> like
> calea...
>
>
> ...enough, that should get the sounding board moving...just incase anyone
> needs to know who posted such a Capitalistic Republican view.

LOL, they don't like me around here for being one of those Capitalist Pigs, 
either.   I'm so radical I oppose handouts, even for and to me (God knows I 
am not rich ).   I won't take it if offered.

You gotta start somewhere.   I'm starting with me.  It's not good enough for 
me to say "if someone's going to get them, it might as well be me".  Sorry. 
This country's in bad enough shape it's no longer a matter of politics or 
partisanship.  It's now a matter of conscience.   That should come first, 
before the bank balance, before the checkbook bottom line, before we're a 
party member, or not a party member, before we're businessmen or consumers, 
or whatever...




>
> Ross Cornett
> HofNet Communications,  Inc.
> Effingham Illinois.
> 217 342 6201 ex 100
>
>
>
> _
> Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man
> soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of
> the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the
> Spirit reap life everlasting."
> _
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:05 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] grant funds ideas
>
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've asked before but saw no discussion so here it is again
>>
>> If WISPA gets a chance to give input to the grant process, what should we
>> tell the government?
>>
>> I can't believe that NO ONE here has any input on this at all.  Did my
>> last
>> post fail to make it through?  Or should we not give any input into the
>> process if given the chance?  We'll just let the telco's get all of it
>> then?
>>
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Jeff Broadwick]

BTW, we can do 12/24 volt DC with the R1 that we were discussing.

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this.  PC
based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has
gigE ethernet ports by the gross.  Then we can route or bridge as needed
based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it.

Lots of processor and memory power this way too!  Maybe based on a Dell
server

Am I dreaming?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might
> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>
> I would go RB1000
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
> without great concern for the weather.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>> at the tower sites.
>>
>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
> difference.
>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
 Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
 this already though.

 And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
 just bigger and faster.

 I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
 interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
 people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.

 The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
 load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
 that be done via high end switch or router?

 If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
 together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
 that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level
>
 until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
 acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
 that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
 That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far
>
 more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a
 conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

 Thanks!
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Jack Unger
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
> "committee"
 is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to
 someone who actually has this type of network design experience and
 paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking.

  jack


  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the
> towers.

 How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade
 outage at 18 gig?

 Aren't there any 5.8 systems tha

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Dennis Burgess]

You are right with the main line of severs.  Something to keep in mind 
is that the PowerRouter's only moving parts are the fans to keep the CPU 
and Power supply cool . We have DC units now as well.  The units run 
about 85 watts of power normally. 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
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it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
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received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Scott Reed wrote:
> Not only is the power consumption an issue for servers, they are 
> designed for a office environment.  They run best at 68-75F, lots of air 
> flow.  Servers generate a lot of heat.  Less if they are "green", but 
> still a lot compared to other devices.  They also have way too many 
> moving parts.  Disk drives and fans are usually the first things to die 
> because they move.  And both are critical to the operation of the server.
> I would recommend something without moving parts and designed for DC 
> operation, though not 12VDC.  Probably due to lower current 
> requirements, I find most gear works better at 24VDC than 12VDC.  Car 
> batteries are still an option, you just put 2 in series for 24VDC.  
> Though here again, I would use batteries designed for what you are 
> doing.  Car batteries are designed for a high current, short duration 
> usage, then charge for a while.  You need batteries that are designed to 
> provide low current for a long time and that can be fully discharged 
> repeatedly without degradation.
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>   
>> I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this.  PC 
>> based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has 
>> gigE ethernet ports by the gross.  Then we can route or bridge as needed 
>> based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it.
>>
>> Lots of processor and memory power this way too!  Maybe based on a Dell 
>> server
>>
>> Am I dreaming?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might
>>> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>>>
>>> I would go RB1000
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
>>> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
>>> without great concern for the weather.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>> 
>>>   
 Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
 know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
 tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
 at the tower sites.

 Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
 have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
   
 
>>> difference.
>>> 
>>>   
 Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.

 thanks,
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Mike Hammett" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


   
 
> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing 

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Scott Reed]

Not only is the power consumption an issue for servers, they are 
designed for a office environment.  They run best at 68-75F, lots of air 
flow.  Servers generate a lot of heat.  Less if they are "green", but 
still a lot compared to other devices.  They also have way too many 
moving parts.  Disk drives and fans are usually the first things to die 
because they move.  And both are critical to the operation of the server.
I would recommend something without moving parts and designed for DC 
operation, though not 12VDC.  Probably due to lower current 
requirements, I find most gear works better at 24VDC than 12VDC.  Car 
batteries are still an option, you just put 2 in series for 24VDC.  
Though here again, I would use batteries designed for what you are 
doing.  Car batteries are designed for a high current, short duration 
usage, then charge for a while.  You need batteries that are designed to 
provide low current for a long time and that can be fully discharged 
repeatedly without degradation.

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this.  PC 
> based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has 
> gigE ethernet ports by the gross.  Then we can route or bridge as needed 
> based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it.
>
> Lots of processor and memory power this way too!  Maybe based on a Dell 
> server
>
> Am I dreaming?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>   
>> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might
>> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>>
>> I would go RB1000
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
>> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
>> without great concern for the weather.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>> 
>>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>>> at the tower sites.
>>>
>>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
>>>   
>> difference.
>> 
>>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

 
> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
> this already though.
>
> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
> just bigger and faster.
>
> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
> interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
> people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>
> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
> load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
> that be done via high end switch or router?
>
> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
> together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
> that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level
>   
> until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
> acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
> that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far
>   
> more q

Re: [WISPA] AGENDA FOR MARCH 10

[Tom DeReggi]

Marlon,

I feel for the point, that you are trying to make. Nobody "wants" to sit 
idle.
But the reality is that we don;t control the shots, nor do we authorize the 
appointments. We can just request them.

Secondly, If we had 5-10 people sitting around a desk in one place, for a 
day, I agree we'd effectively and quickly get alot written as a "group".
But we do not have the luxur to work in that environment, and still include 
our diverse national membership's interests.
That challenges group writting. But we do have what I feel is a good first 
step with a group position, and its what we submitted to legislators last 
month, and included consensus from all members of the committee.

I can assure you two things

1. Our face-to-face meeting requests are submitted, and we should get our 
meeting request granted shortly after the public meeting on the 10th.

2. WISPA legislative committee and/or council will submit questions to 
agencies prior to the public meeting on the 10th, if there are questions to 
be asked.

Policy makers will not accept being dictated to, how to run their programs. 
Thats already been discussed here as a committee. The ideal situation is to 
be "asked" for our opinion.
That happened by GAO :-)  The reality is that we've requested our meeting, 
and we'll get our chance to suggest recommendation, soon.

Steve Smith hit on a core point, that as individuals, we "DO" want to use 
our "personal" contacts and avenues to get input to the policy makers. It 
opimizes the chance that we'll get input heard. What we also want, are clear 
messages that support each other, instead of contradict each other.

Committee,

I have a plan. The plan is we follow the proceedure asked by policy 
makers. We show up for the group public meeting the 10th and learn. We 
should have 4 WISPA members going, that I know of. Ready to ask question or 
make statements, IF the policy makers allows time for it.  And immediately 
after I will work with Steve Coran, to formulate our strategy for moving 
forward, and discuss the core items that we'll want to focus on in our new 
position papers, and share that proposed agenda with committee members, for 
their input and consensus. That is what I believe is required to effectively 
make headway with policy makers.

Marlon, I agree that that plan, leaves members somewhat idle, in the week 
interim.  There is no reason for you or anyone to sit idle, that wants to 
contribute time today.
I have the following suggestions for ANYONE that wants to get to work 
today.

1) Take WISPA's existing position paper sent to legislators, and expand on 
it.  Write down anything new that you feel should be added to that paper, 
that is not included, and needs to.  (I already have a few items in mind, 
based on committee's past input, but do not have it on paper).

2) Make an outline of what you feel are topics/possitions that we should 
submit to RUS versus NTIA. We will likely have different goals for each 
target Grantor.

3) Submit any questions that you may have to ask policy makers, based on 
what we currently know, and submit them to Steve Coran for review. (I 
recommend CCing the legislative list, when sending to Steve). This will 
prevent duplications, and allow us to include all questions, that are not in 
conflict, with WISPA's submitted questions.  However, we need questions, if 
we are going to submit them.

Policy makers asked for "questions" in advance.  If you have questions, I 
highly recommend that you write them ASAP, so there is time for Steve to 
review and send to NTIA/RUS prior to the public meeting. It will be 
pointless to send them, if they are not asked soon.  I'd recommend that we 
should send these questions no later than Friday, to give policy makers time 
to review before public meeting. And I'd recommend they get sent to Steve 
today and tommorrow, to give him chance to review them.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Smith" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] AGENDA FOR MARCH 10


>I suspect that Tom is correct in that very few questions will get to be
> asked at the March 10 meeting.  Looking at the agenda it will be mostly
> speeches by representatives from the various agencies.
>
> Since they have the money, I also suspect that they will be the ones 
> telling
> us how it works rather than asking us for suggestions.  I think we are
> mostly past the input stage.  Instead I think they are scrambling to put
> together the procedures they will use to evaluate any proposals they get.
>
> There are a lot of people wanting information and I kind of visualize it 
> as
> feeding time at the fish farm.  They are going to throw some money in the
> pond and there will be a feeding frenzy.
>
> I will send my questions to them via multiple channels and hope some of 
> them
> get asked and answered.
>
> One of the prim

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Marlon K. Schafer]

We're not looking for 100% coverage.  We know that won't happen.  We'll get 
as close as we can afford though.

As for mobility that's yet to be determined.  Back in 2001 when we first did 
cop car setups mobility wasn't an issue because the car would just keep it's 
bridged ip addy.  This network design has routed towers so I'm not sure.

It may be as easy as running multiple ip addys in the car though.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "3-dB Networks" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> Are you doing this with mobility though?  How are you doing the car
> installations?  What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz?
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>>The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire,
>>sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique
>>VLAN.
>>
>>The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the
>>Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11
>>SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.
>>
>>I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to
>>help you with that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__
>>Jerry Richardson
>>airCloud Communications
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>>Got it.  Thanks!
>>
>>Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>>
>>The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit
>>or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's
>>laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could
>>also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at
>>the call.  This would allow much faster response times if something were
>>to happen to the officer on scene.
>>
>>laters,
>>marlon
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>>
>>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
>>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
>>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>>
>>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
>>SSID/VLAN
>>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
>>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>>
>>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> airCloud Communications
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>>
>>> OK, last one.
>>>
>>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
>>but
>>> it's not the driving force here.
>>>
>>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
>>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
>>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
>>will
>>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
>>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>>
>>> thanks!
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wis

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hmmm, can you price a system like this out?  I'll need per tower and per 
node prices.

Out here we'll probably be better off with a less expensive homebrew system 
due to long term costs though

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "3-dB Networks" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed 
> for
> the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be
> traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work.  Plus to modems you install 
> in
> the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect
> to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh
> through another car to work.
>
> I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew
> solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey
> package available (not that any of it is cheap!)
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>>Got it.  Thanks!
>>
>>Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>>
>>The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit
>>or
>>code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop
>>and
>>push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could also use
>>an ip
>>enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call.  This
>>would
>>allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the
>>officer
>>on scene.
>>
>>laters,
>>marlon
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>>
>>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
>>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
>>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>>
>>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
>>SSID/VLAN
>>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
>>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>>
>>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> airCloud Communications
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>On
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>>
>>> OK, last one.
>>>
>>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
>>but
>>> it's not the driving force here.
>>>
>>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
>>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
>>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
>>will
>>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
>>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>>
>>> thanks!
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>--
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --
>>--
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>--
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --
>>--
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] NS2 and EOC-2610

[Blair Davis]

They do work fine.

I have 1.0.30 firmware (2/5/09) on them and the rssi is still way
off  I'll try the 1.0.25 from 1/13/2009


Blair

Pat O'Connor wrote:

  I saw the same results a month ago when I bought a few of the EOC-2610.  
Make sure you're using the latest firmware.

http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/resources.aspx?cat=7&ID=246

That problem went away after I flashed them, and they work great.

Pat


Blair Davis wrote:
  
  
Some interesting results from a side by side comparison of these radios...

ubquity NS2
firmware XS2.ar2316.v3.1.1.3498.080725.1324
ap sees radio at -77
radio sees ap at -76

EnGenius EOC-2610
firmware 1.0.30
ap sees radio at -76
radio sees ap at -89

Transfer rates are within 5% of each other
Error rate is within 1%

a couple of older radios I had on hand, hooked to an 9db patch, 
mounted in the same place as the NS2/EOC-2610, reported rssi values 
within 3 db or the NS2.

Looks like the reported rssi on the EOC-2610 is off quite a bit.

Comments?

Blair





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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Mike Hammett]

Right


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:56 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> That would be the upcomming RB450G,
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:08 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
> Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports
> Gigabit, though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of.
>
> I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability.  I'm not saying it's no
> good, I just don't know.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:47 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios
> might
>> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>>
>> I would go RB1000
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
>> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
>> without great concern for the weather.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>>> at the tower sites.
>>>
>>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
>> difference.
>>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a
> bit.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
 OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
> this already though.
>
> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
> just bigger and faster.
>
> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
> interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
> people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>
> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
> load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
> that be done via high end switch or router?
>
> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
> together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
> that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific
> level
>>
> until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
> acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
> that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are
> far
>>
> more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a
> conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>
> Thanks!
> marlon
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Jack Unger
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>  Marlon,
>
>  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
>> "committee"
> is more than a little bit risky. 

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jerry Richardson]

It's not real "mesh" though, it uses WDS to bridge traffic from one
radio to the next.

 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

The network is a mix of Vivato and GO Networks, both of which are out of
business.

We are going to test Deliberant DuoMesh in a small downtown network to
see if it will meet our requirements. 


 
 
__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

Hmmm, that sounds like a great way to do this part of the project.

What hardware are you using?
thanks,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, 
> sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique 
> VLAN.
>
> The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the 
> Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11

> SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.
>
> I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person
to
> help you with that.
>
>
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
> Got it.  Thanks!
>
> Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>
> The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a
pursuit
> or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's 
> laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They
could
> also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at 
> the call.  This would allow much faster response times if something
were
> to happen to the officer on scene.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint 
>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems

>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>
>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
> SSID/VLAN
>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -

>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>
>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple
networks.
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>> OK, last one.
>>
>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high 
>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
> but
>> it's not the driving force here.
>>
>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across

>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is
not
>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to
always
>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
> will
>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 
>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>
>> thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wis

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jerry Richardson]

The network is a mix of Vivato and GO Networks, both of which are out of
business.

We are going to test Deliberant DuoMesh in a small downtown network to
see if it will meet our requirements. 


 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

Hmmm, that sounds like a great way to do this part of the project.

What hardware are you using?
thanks,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire,
> sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique
> VLAN.
>
> The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the
> Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11
> SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.
>
> I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person
to
> help you with that.
>
>
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
> Got it.  Thanks!
>
> Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>
> The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a
pursuit
> or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's
> laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They
could
> also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at
> the call.  This would allow much faster response times if something
were
> to happen to the officer on scene.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>
>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
> SSID/VLAN
>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>
>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple
networks.
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>> OK, last one.
>>
>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
> but
>> it's not the driving force here.
>>
>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is
not
>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to
always
>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
> will
>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>
>> thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
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>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>

> 
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>

> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[can...@believewireless.net]

The RB1000s we've used have worked well in outdoor environments.
We've had them in cases so hot we have burned ourselves touching them.
  However, to start, I'd start with the new RB450Gs from Mikrotik.
They are cheap and should handle about 200+Mbps w/OSPF running.If
you need BGP, definitely go with the PoweRouter from Dennis Burgess at
Linktech since it's dual core.



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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jerry Richardson]

In this case, it's 2.4GHz to the clients. 

The cars have Laptops with 3 radios:
- Aironet PCMCIA diversity connectors and antennas on the dash
- Cellular cards 
- Low speed radios

The system on the laptop automatically tries to connect to WiFi first,
then the cellular, then finally the low speed radio if needed.


 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:57 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

Are you doing this with mobility though?  How are you doing the car
installations?  What about LOS issues considering the low power of
4.9GHz?

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

>Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire, 
>sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique 
>VLAN.
>
>The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the 
>Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11 
>SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.
>
>I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person 
>to help you with that.
>
>
>
>
>__
>Jerry Richardson
>airCloud Communications
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On

>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>Got it.  Thanks!
>
>Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>
>The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a 
>pursuit or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the 
>car's laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  
>They could also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's 
>happening at the call.  This would allow much faster response times if 
>something were to happen to the officer on scene.
>
>laters,
>marlon
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint 
>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems

>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>
>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
>SSID/VLAN
>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -

>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>
>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple
networks.
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>> OK, last one.
>>
>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high 
>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
>but
>> it's not the driving force here.
>>
>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across

>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is 
>> not only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to 
>> always be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system

>> that
>will
>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 
>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>
>> thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>---
>-
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>---
>-
>> 
>>
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Gino Villarini]

Yes you are  A dell server running DC will requiere tons of Amps ...

Take a look at the offerings of Mikrotik Routerboard series:

www.routerboard.com

Specifically the RB450G and RB1000 both have gige ports, very low dc
power consuption and at least enough CPU/Ram to run OSPF, BGP, even MPLS
in the 100 mbps range ...

Butch should be able configure them with OSPF and off you go ..

For licensed Link I would look into Dragonwave Horizon Compact's or
Trango Apex units

Unlicensed Backups.. Motorola PTP 600 units

Man this project starst to sound like my backbone!


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this.  PC
based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and
has gigE ethernet ports by the gross.  Then we can route or bridge as
needed based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's
plugged into it.

Lots of processor and memory power this way too!  Maybe based on a Dell
server

Am I dreaming?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Gino Villarini" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios
might
> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>
> I would go RB1000
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
> without great concern for the weather.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>> at the tower sites.
>>
>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
> difference.
>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a
bit.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
 Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
 this already though.

 And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
 just bigger and faster.

 I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
 interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
 people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.

 The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
 load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
 that be done via high end switch or router?

 If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
 together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
 that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific
level
>
 until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
 acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
 that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
 That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are
far
>
 more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a
 conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

 Thanks!
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Jack Unger
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full dup

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[3-dB Networks]

Are you doing this with mobility though?  How are you doing the car
installations?  What about LOS issues considering the low power of 4.9GHz?

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:44 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire,
>sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique
>VLAN.
>
>The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the
>Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11
>SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.
>
>I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to
>help you with that.
>
>
>
>
>__
>Jerry Richardson
>airCloud Communications
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>Got it.  Thanks!
>
>Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>
>The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit
>or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's
>laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could
>also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at
>the call.  This would allow much faster response times if something were
>to happen to the officer on scene.
>
>laters,
>marlon
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>
>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
>SSID/VLAN
>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>
>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>> OK, last one.
>>
>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
>but
>> it's not the driving force here.
>>
>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
>will
>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>
>> thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>
>
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Gino Villarini]

That would be the upcomming RB450G,  


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports
Gigabit, though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of.

I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability.  I'm not saying it's no
good, I just don't know.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:47 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios
might
> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>
> I would go RB1000
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
> without great concern for the weather.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>> at the tower sites.
>>
>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
> difference.
>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a
bit.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
 Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
 this already though.

 And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
 just bigger and faster.

 I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
 interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
 people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.

 The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
 load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
 that be done via high end switch or router?

 If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
 together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
 that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific
level
>
 until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
 acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
 that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
 That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are
far
>
 more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a
 conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

 Thanks!
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Jack Unger
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
> "committee"
 is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to
 someone who actually has this type of network design experience and
 paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking.

  jack


  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the
> towers.

 How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade
 outage at 18 gig?

 Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[3-dB Networks]

That's what the MotoMesh gear is for... the MEA architecture (developed for
the military to connector tanks with helicopters) allows the cop car to be
traveling at 150MPH and for it to still work.  Plus to modems you install in
the cars can mesh with the ones in other cars... so if one car can connect
to the network but another car 1/4 mile down the road can't... it can mesh
through another car to work.

I don't think a municipality/county is going to like deploying a homebrew
solution for something like this... Moto already has the complete turnkey
package available (not that any of it is cheap!)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:32 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>Got it.  Thanks!
>
>Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>
>The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit
>or
>code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop
>and
>push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could also use
>an ip
>enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call.  This
>would
>allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the
>officer
>on scene.
>
>laters,
>marlon
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>
>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
>SSID/VLAN
>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>
>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>> OK, last one.
>>
>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
>but
>> it's not the driving force here.
>>
>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
>will
>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>
>> thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>--
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>--
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> --
>--
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>--
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hmmm, that sounds like a great way to do this part of the project.

What hardware are you using?
thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire,
> sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique
> VLAN.
>
> The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the
> Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11
> SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.
>
> I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to
> help you with that.
>
>
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
> Got it.  Thanks!
>
> Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?
>
> The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit
> or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's
> laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could
> also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at
> the call.  This would allow much faster response times if something were
> to happen to the officer on scene.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>
>> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
>> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
>> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>>
>> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
> SSID/VLAN
>> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
>> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
>> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>>
>> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>>
>>
>> __
>> Jerry Richardson
>> airCloud Communications
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>>
>> OK, last one.
>>
>> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
> but
>> it's not the driving force here.
>>
>> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
>> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
>> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
> will
>> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
>> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>>
>> thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jerry Richardson]

The way we have it set up is that each agency - city, county fire,
sheriff has it's own SSID on the radio that is assigned to a unique
VLAN. 

The radio handles the VLAN tagging and forwards it either out the
Ethernet port or the backhaul radio (if it's a dual radio). We have 11
SSID/VLAN combinations running across the network and it works fine.

I am not administering the MobileIP so I would not be the best person to
help you with that.


 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

Got it.  Thanks!

Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?

The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit
or code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's
laptop and push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could
also use an ip enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at
the call.  This would allow much faster response times if something were
to happen to the officer on scene.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>
> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own
SSID/VLAN
> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>
> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
> OK, last one.
>
> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters,
but
> it's not the driving force here.
>
> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that
will
> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>
> thanks!
> marlon
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

[Marlon K. Schafer]

We don't buy anything from Hyperlink.  Not since they decided that everyone 
should have a 1 watt amp with a 15dB antenna.

I get most of my piggys from EC/Hutton.  I've gotten a few from Butch 
lately, no bad ones that I know of
laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers


>I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades ones from
> Wisp Router and other places.  The last few years I have not had any
> problems though it may have been due to the fact we put so much coax seal
> around them.  Do you seal it with coax seal (or comparable material)?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:
>
>> We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior 
>> to
>> that we don't recall a problem.  They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from
>> Hyperlink.
>>
>> Anyone else have a problem?
>>
>> Any recommendations on best source for them?
>>
>> We normally only use them on backhauls & APs, so when they go bad it's a
>> big frustrating problem.
>>
>> Mark Nash
>> UnwiredWest
>> 78 Centennial Loop
>> Suite E
>> Eugene, OR 97401
>> 541-998-
>> 541-998-5599 fax
>> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

[Mark Nash]

One AP with one radio.

We've gone through the moisture issue.  Originally, Ubiquiti thought that
the radios were taking in too much static and we needed to DC-ground each
piece of equipment.  We did that, bought new radios, but still couldn't get
back to our original signal levels.

How about antennas?  Anyone have suggestions on base station antennas?  I
believe the pac antenna is a 120* VPol sector antenna.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless


> One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP?
>
> First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna
>
>
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mark Nash
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless
>
> We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP.
>
> In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs.  Now
> they're at -85(ish) and not really usable.
>
> We've replaced several boards & radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these
> radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP & clients are
> Valemount WAR4's).  Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients & Pac
> Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP.
>
> Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be
> grounded (including antenna and card).
>
> We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if
> there's a problem with them.
>
> I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things???
>
>
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Got it.  Thanks!

Any hardware suggestions to deal with the ssid/vlan or the mobile ip?

The only reason mobility is important to me is that I envision a pursuit or 
code 3 call.  The dispatcher could then take control of the car's laptop and 
push the call info, map/gps data etc. to the car.  They could also use an ip 
enabled dash cam to keep an eye on what's happening at the call.  This would 
allow much faster response times if something were to happen to the officer 
on scene.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9


> Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
> solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
> that band would be outstanding for mobile use.
>
> Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN
> which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
> This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
> the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.
>
> Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
>
>
> __
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
> OK, last one.
>
> What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
> speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters, but
> it's not the driving force here.
>
> Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
> multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
> only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
> be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that will
> facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
> square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>
> thanks!
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

[Jerry Richardson]

One AP with one radio or multiple radios in the same AP?

First thought is a wet connector to tha antenna 


 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:15 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP.  

In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs.  Now
they're at -85(ish) and not really usable.

We've replaced several boards & radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these
radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP & clients are
Valemount WAR4's).  Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients & Pac
Wireless 3.5 VPol sector at the AP.

Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be
grounded (including antenna and card).

We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if
there's a problem with them.

I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things???


Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com




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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I'll tell you what my perfect tower site router would be for this.  PC 
based, runs on 12vdc (so we can run everything from car batteries) and has 
gigE ethernet ports by the gross.  Then we can route or bridge as needed 
based on the requirements of the distribution radio that's plugged into it.

Lots of processor and memory power this way too!  Maybe based on a Dell 
server

Am I dreaming?
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Gino Villarini" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might
> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>
> I would go RB1000
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
> without great concern for the weather.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>> at the tower sites.
>>
>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
> difference.
>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
 Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
 this already though.

 And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
 just bigger and faster.

 I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
 interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
 people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.

 The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
 load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
 that be done via high end switch or router?

 If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
 together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
 that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level
>
 until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
 acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
 that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
 That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far
>
 more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a
 conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

 Thanks!
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Jack Unger
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
> "committee"
 is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to
 someone who actually has this type of network design experience and
 paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking.

  jack


  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the
> towers.

 How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade
 outage at 18 gig?

 Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first
>
 place?
 I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for
 backhaul.
 I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the
> consumers.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Brian Webster" 
 To: "WISPA G

Re: [WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

[Josh Luthman]

I have used custom made ones from Tessco as well as the pre mades ones from
Wisp Router and other places.  The last few years I have not had any
problems though it may have been due to the fact we put so much coax seal
around them.  Do you seal it with coax seal (or comparable material)?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mark Nash  wrote:

> We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to
> that we don't recall a problem.  They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from
> Hyperlink.
>
> Anyone else have a problem?
>
> Any recommendations on best source for them?
>
> We normally only use them on backhauls & APs, so when they go bad it's a
> big frustrating problem.
>
> Mark Nash
> UnwiredWest
> 78 Centennial Loop
> Suite E
> Eugene, OR 97401
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> http://www.unwiredwest.com
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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[WISPA] Hyperlink Coax Jumpers

[Mark Nash]

We have had about 6 of these fail in the last few months, whereas prior to that 
we don't recall a problem.  They are 2-ft NM-NM LMR195 jumpers from Hyperlink.  

Anyone else have a problem?  

Any recommendations on best source for them?  

We normally only use them on backhauls & APs, so when they go bad it's a big 
frustrating problem.

Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com



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[WISPA] XR3 / StarOS / Pac Wireless

[Mark Nash]

We've seen a drop in signal on all of our connections off of one AP.  

In the beginning, connections were at -70(ish) for all CPEs.  Now they're at 
-85(ish) and not really usable.

We've replaced several boards & radio cards ($250 a pop for one of these 
radios), both at the AP and at the client (both AP & clients are Valemount 
WAR4's).  Using Pac Wireless 3.5 grids on clients & Pac Wireless 3.5 VPol 
sector at the AP.

Upon advice from Ubiquiti, we've grounded every point that could be grounded 
(including antenna and card).

We've sent 5 of the radios back to Ubiquiti for testing to see if there's a 
problem with them.

I'm wondering if any of you have seen the same things???


Mark Nash
UnwiredWest
78 Centennial Loop
Suite E
Eugene, OR 97401
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
http://www.unwiredwest.com



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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Mike Hammett]

Then perhaps depending on port count required, the RB450 supports Gigabit, 
though I don't know what it's throughput is capable of.

I'm not sure on the RB1000's outdoor ability.  I'm not saying it's no good, 
I just don't know.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Gino Villarini" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:47 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might
> be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...
>
> I would go RB1000
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
> Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
> RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
> without great concern for the weather.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
>> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
>> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed
>> at the tower sites.
>>
>> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
>> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
> difference.
>> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
 Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like
 this already though.

 And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's
 just bigger and faster.

 I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
 interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few
 people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.

 The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
 load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should
 that be done via high end switch or router?

 If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
 together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note,
 that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level
>
 until construction starts.  The program is customer and land
 acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say
 that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
 That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far
>
 more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a
 conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

 Thanks!
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Jack Unger
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
> "committee"
 is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to
 someone who actually has this type of network design experience and
 paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking.

  jack


  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the
> towers.

 How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade
 outage at 18 gig?

 Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first
>
 place?
 I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for
 backhaul.
 I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the
> consumers.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Brian Webster" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [WIS

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Jack Unger]

Marlon,

I can assist with any of the unlicensed (2.4, 5.8) or light-licensed
(3.65) or 4.9 RF design work. Since you will be carrying public safety
traffic, I'd go licensed on the backbone with 5.8 GHz backup as Travis
and Brian suggest. For those full-licensed links I'd suggest contacting
and comparing quotes from at least two companies that are experienced
distributors of licensed equipment. 

jack


Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  Butch does a lot of work for me already.  I'll touch base with him.

Do you see anything here that you'd be a good resource for?

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  
  
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


  Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this 
already though.

And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just 
bigger and faster.

I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly 
interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few people 
here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.

The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load 
sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done 
via high end switch or router?

  

I'd suggest using a router at each main tower. That can provide the load
sharing/balancing plus the other network management functions that you
will need. I'd suggest contacting Dennis Burgess or Butch Evans and
paying either of them for a few hours of consulting services now so you
can get a first-pass network design that can be fine-tuned later. It
will save you a lot of time and frustration and give you the knowledge
and confidence that you need now to move forward efficiently.


  If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together 
please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will 
be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction 
starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build 
it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make 
sense?  That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are 
far more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual 
stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

Thanks!
marlon

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jack Unger
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" 
is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who 
actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do 
the whole job right the first time? Just asking.

  jack


  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.

How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
outage
at 18 gig?

Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first 
place?
I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Webster" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in 
for
links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
primary
link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
maybe not at full speed.



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


Thanks.

Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
build in a circle?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
$15,000 per link for everything.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  Hi All,

I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
traffic.

I'll probably have around 20 towers, all l

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[Jerry Richardson]

Might look at Solectek, they have both 3.65 and 4.9 multipoint
solutions. However, why not wait to see what happens with TVWS. Seems
that band would be outstanding for mobile use.

Since it's your network, you could assign each agency it's own SSID/VLAN
which route across your network to the appropriate agency's servers.
This way the IP's are not changing as they move from tower to tower -
the only delay would be when the subscriber switches towers.

Alternately MobileIP allows seamless roaming across multiple networks.
 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

OK, last one.

What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
speeds to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters, but
it's not the driving force here.

Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
only to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always
be able to remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that will
facilitate this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000
square mile network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?

thanks!
marlon





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Re: [WISPA] NS2 and EOC-2610

[Pat O'Connor]

I saw the same results a month ago when I bought a few of the EOC-2610.  
Make sure you're using the latest firmware.

http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/resources.aspx?cat=7&ID=246

That problem went away after I flashed them, and they work great.

Pat


Blair Davis wrote:
> Some interesting results from a side by side comparison of these radios...
>
> ubquity NS2
> firmware XS2.ar2316.v3.1.1.3498.080725.1324
> ap sees radio at -77
> radio sees ap at -76
>
> EnGenius EOC-2610
> firmware 1.0.30
> ap sees radio at -76
> radio sees ap at -89
>
> Transfer rates are within 5% of each other
> Error rate is within 1%
>
> a couple of older radios I had on hand, hooked to an 9db patch, 
> mounted in the same place as the NS2/EOC-2610, reported rssi values 
> within 3 db or the NS2.
>
> Looks like the reported rssi on the EOC-2610 is off quite a bit.
>
> Comments?
>
> Blair
> 
>
>
>
> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Gino Villarini]

RB493 limits ports to 100 fdx, If he is going licensed, theradios might
be upgraded in the future to higher speeds...

I would go RB1000 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:36 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an
RB493AH in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do
without great concern for the weather.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't 
> know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning 
> tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed 
> at the tower sites.
>
> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I 
> have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
difference.
> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.
>
> thanks,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like 
>>> this already though.
>>>
>>> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's 
>>> just bigger and faster.
>>>
>>> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly 
>>> interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few 
>>> people here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>>>
>>> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a 
>>> load sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should 
>>> that be done via high end switch or router?
>>>
>>> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea 
>>> together please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, 
>>> that nothing will be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level

>>> until construction starts.  The program is customer and land 
>>> acquisition specific, not build it THIS way specific.  Did I say 
>>> that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?
>>> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far

>>> more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a 
>>> conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: Jack Unger
>>>  To: WISPA General List
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>  Marlon,
>>>
>>>  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
"committee"
>>> is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to 
>>> someone who actually has this type of network design experience and 
>>> paying them to do the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>>
>>>  jack
>>>
>>>
>>>  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the
towers.
>>>
>>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
>>> outage at 18 gig?
>>>
>>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first

>>> place?
>>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for 
>>> backhaul.
>>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the
consumers.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to 
>>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored 
>>> in for links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop 
>>> configuration you could have a fade condition that could block out a

>>> whole tower site severing your links to that location in both 
>>> directions of your loop.
>>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
>>> primary link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that 
>>> site up though maybe not at full speed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>> Bria

Re: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9

[3-dB Networks]

For 3.65 I'd say you need to look at Aperto and Redline... they seem to be
the market leaders.  My preference is for Aperto though (and not just
because we resell it :-)

The only Mobile 4.9GHz systems that I know of are Mesh based.  Motorola's
MotoMesh with the MEA architecture is probably what your looking for (I'm
assuming Police/Fire).  You could probably also create something with the
new PTMP 4.9GHz gear from Moto... but it's not going to be turnkey by any
stretch of the imagination.

There isn't that many players in 4.9GHz outside of Point to Point... and I
think Moto probably is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in that
space (since they already own the two way business its an easy sell to by
the 4.9GHz gear from Moto too).

If you want more information... feel free to contact me offlist Marlon
(dan...@3-db.net)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:35 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] 3650 and 4.9
>
>OK, last one.
>
>What would you guys use for 3650  gear.  I need to deliver very high
>speeds
>to lots of users with near 100% reliability.  Money matters, but it's
>not
>the driving force here.
>
>Also, I'm looking for a mobile 4.9 system.  We'll have to roam across
>multiple towers that have multiple ip ranges on them.  The idea is not
>only
>to keep voip calls running while this happens, but also to always be
>able to
>remotely access the mobile pc's.  Is there a system that will facilitate
>this idea (talking mobile broadband access across my 6000 square mile
>network).  Do I have to create something from scratch?
>
>thanks!
>marlon
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Mike Hammett]

Mikrotik makes pretty good gear.  Depending on traffic, I'd put an RB493AH 
in there.  Should be able to do anything you needed to do without great 
concern for the weather.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:19 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't know 
> if
> it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree.  I'm
> trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower
> sites.
>
> Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I have
> to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference.
> Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.
>
> thanks,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this
>>> already though.
>>>
>>> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just
>>> bigger and faster.
>>>
>>> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly
>>> interested
>>> in what people would install.  I know there are a few people here that
>>> have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>>>
>>> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load
>>> sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be 
>>> done
>>> via high end switch or router?
>>>
>>> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea 
>>> together
>>> please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing 
>>> will
>>> be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction
>>> starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not 
>>> build
>>> it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make
>>> sense?
>>> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far 
>>> more
>>> questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual stage,
>>> but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>  - Original Message - 
>>>  From: Jack Unger
>>>  To: WISPA General List
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>  Marlon,
>>>
>>>  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee"
>>> is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone 
>>> who
>>> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to 
>>> do
>>> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>>
>>>  jack
>>>
>>>
>>>  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>>>
>>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade
>>> outage
>>> at 18 gig?
>>>
>>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first
>>> place?
>>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for 
>>> backhaul.
>>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in
>>> for
>>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop 
>>> configuration
>>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
>>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your
>>> primary
>>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up 
>>> though
>>> maybe not at full speed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network 
>>> is
>>> build in a circle?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message 

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Butch does a lot of work for me already.  I'll touch base with him.

Do you see anything here that you'd be a good resource for?

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this 
>> already though.
>>
>> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just 
>> bigger and faster.
>>
>> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly 
>> interested in what people would install.  I know there are a few people 
>> here that have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>>
>> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load 
>> sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done 
>> via high end switch or router?
>>
> I'd suggest using a router at each main tower. That can provide the load
> sharing/balancing plus the other network management functions that you
> will need. I'd suggest contacting Dennis Burgess or Butch Evans and
> paying either of them for a few hours of consulting services now so you
> can get a first-pass network design that can be fine-tuned later. It
> will save you a lot of time and frustration and give you the knowledge
> and confidence that you need now to move forward efficiently.
>> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together 
>> please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will 
>> be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction 
>> starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build 
>> it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make 
>> sense?  That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are 
>> far more questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual 
>> stage, but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>   - Original Message - 
>>   From: Jack Unger
>>   To: WISPA General List
>>   Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>   Marlon,
>>
>>   Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" 
>> is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who 
>> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do 
>> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>
>>   jack
>>
>>
>>   Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>>
>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
>> outage
>> at 18 gig?
>>
>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first 
>> place?
>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>   The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in 
>> for
>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
>> primary
>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
>> maybe not at full speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
>> build in a circle?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Travis Johnson" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
>> $15,000 per link for everything.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>   Hi All,
>>
>> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
>> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>>
>> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
>> traffic.
>>
>> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
>> share
>> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
>> things to be automatically self healing if there

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Gino Villarini]

You can buy a hardenend L3 Switch that would perform OSPF 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:19 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't
know if it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning
tree.  I'm trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at
the tower sites.

Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I
have to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a
difference. 
Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this
>> already though.
>>
>> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just
>> bigger and faster.
>>
>> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly 
>> interested
>> in what people would install.  I know there are a few people here
that
>> have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>>
>> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a
load
>> sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be
done
>> via high end switch or router?
>>
>> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea
together
>> please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing
will
>> be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction
>> starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not
build
>> it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make 
>> sense?
>> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far
more
>> questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual
stage,
>> but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>  - Original Message - 
>>  From: Jack Unger
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>  Marlon,
>>
>>  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve
"committee"
>> is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone
who
>> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them
to do
>> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>
>>  jack
>>
>>
>>  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>>
>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
>> outage
>> at 18 gig?
>>
>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first
>> place?
>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for
backhaul.
>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the
consumers.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored
in 
>> for
>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop
configuration
>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower
site
>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
>> primary
>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up
though
>> maybe not at full speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire
network is
>> build in a circle?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Travis Johnson" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figur

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Jack Unger]

You will need routing.

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't know if 
it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree.  I'm 
trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower 
sites.

Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I have 
to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. 
Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  
  
OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul



  Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this
already though.

And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just
bigger and faster.

I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly 
interested
in what people would install.  I know there are a few people here that
have very high speed backbone systems in place.

The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load
sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done
via high end switch or router?

If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together
please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will
be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction
starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build
it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make 
sense?
That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more
questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual stage,
but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.

Thanks!
marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Jack Unger
 To: WISPA General List
 Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


 Marlon,

 Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee"
is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who
actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do
the whole job right the first time? Just asking.

 jack


 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.

How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
outage
at 18 gig?

Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first
place?
I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Webster" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


 The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in 
for
links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
primary
link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
maybe not at full speed.



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


Thanks.

Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
build in a circle?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


   Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
$15,000 per link for everything.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Hi All,

I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
traffic.

I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
share
across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
connectivity
in any direction.

What would you guys use/suggest?

I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
unl

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Right.  I get that part.  But I've never used it out here so I don't know if 
it's a routing function or a bridging function like spanning tree.  I'm 
trying to figure out what hardware would be best deployed at the tower 
sites.

Part of what I'm trying to do is get a grip on long term costs.  If I have 
to run sensitive routers vs. hardened switches it'll make a difference. 
Adding heat and AC to the towers changes the annual costs quite a bit.

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


> OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this
>> already though.
>>
>> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just
>> bigger and faster.
>>
>> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly 
>> interested
>> in what people would install.  I know there are a few people here that
>> have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>>
>> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load
>> sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done
>> via high end switch or router?
>>
>> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together
>> please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will
>> be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction
>> starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build
>> it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make 
>> sense?
>> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more
>> questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual stage,
>> but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> marlon
>>
>>  - Original Message - 
>>  From: Jack Unger
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>  Marlon,
>>
>>  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee"
>> is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who
>> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do
>> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>
>>  jack
>>
>>
>>  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>>
>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
>> outage
>> at 18 gig?
>>
>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first
>> place?
>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in 
>> for
>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
>> primary
>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
>> maybe not at full speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
>> build in a circle?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Travis Johnson" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
>> $15,000 per link for everything.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>  Hi All,
>>
>> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
>> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>>
>> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
>> traffic.
>>
>> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
>> sha

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Jack Unger]

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this already 
> though.
>
> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just bigger 
> and faster.
>
> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in 
> what people would install.  I know there are a few people here that have very 
> high speed backbone systems in place.
>
> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load 
> sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done via 
> high end switch or router?
>   
I'd suggest using a router at each main tower. That can provide the load 
sharing/balancing plus the other network management functions that you 
will need. I'd suggest contacting Dennis Burgess or Butch Evans and 
paying either of them for a few hours of consulting services now so you 
can get a first-pass network design that can be fine-tuned later. It 
will save you a lot of time and frustration and give you the knowledge 
and confidence that you need now to move forward efficiently.
> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together 
> please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will be 
> able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts.  
> The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way 
> specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?  That is part 
> of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than 
> plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to 
> drill down a bit better.
>
> Thanks!
> marlon
>
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Jack Unger 
>   To: WISPA General List 
>   Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>   Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>   Marlon,
>
>   Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" is 
> more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who 
> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the 
> whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>
>   jack
>
>
>   Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 
> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>
> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage 
> at 18 gig?
>
> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? 
> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. 
> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>   The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for
> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary
> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
> maybe not at full speed.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
> build in a circle?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Johnson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
> $15,000 per link for everything.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>   Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>
> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet 
> traffic.
>
> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
> share
> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
> things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
> connectivity
> in any direction.
>
> What would you guys use/suggest?
>
> I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
> unlicensed
> may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
>
> We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.
>
> What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
>
> I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
> numbers are fine at this tim

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Scott Reed]

A little difficult to do load balancing on a bridge.  No way to 
determine where the traffic goes.  You still have to manage STP 
(Spanning Tree Protocol) to some degree to make sure you don't get loops.
You don't have to administer routes after initial setup with OSPF. That 
is the point, OSPF determines the route to use and the data moves.
Depends on equipment used whether routed or bridged has lower latency.  
A fast router can move data faster than a slow bridge/hub/switch.

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I liked the idea of running a bridged backhaul.  Is that not practical for 
> this?
>
> I'm hoping to have much lower latency and administrative overhead (less 
> routes to try and keep track of).
>
> thanks,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "can...@believewireless.net" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>   
>> We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF
>> without backups on the individual links.  We spec our links to be as
>> close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible.  We continue to try
>> to create loops in the network.  For example, if you have a high-end
>> commercial customer, sell them a backup link to another tower as part
>> of the package.  You've now created another link between towers and
>> added another loop to your network.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jack Unger  wrote:
>> 
>>> Marlon,
>>>
>>> Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" 
>>> is
>>> more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who
>>> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do
>>> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>>
>>> jack
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>>>
>>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
>>> outage
>>> at 18 gig?
>>>
>>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first 
>>> place?
>>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
>>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in 
>>> for
>>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
>>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
>>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
>>> primary
>>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
>>> maybe not at full speed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
>>> build in a circle?
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Travis Johnson" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
>>> $15,000 per link for everything.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
>>> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>>>
>>> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
>>> traffic.
>>>
>>> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
>>> share
>>> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
>>> things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
>>> connectivity
>>> in any direction.
>>>
>>> What would you guys use/suggest?
>>>
>>> I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
>>> unlicensed
>>> may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
>>>
>>> We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.
>>>
>>> What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
>>>
>>> I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
>>> numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low,
>>> I'd
>>> rather over estimate the costs.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Grin.  You could well be right.  I'm certainly into some new ground here.

I'm interested in people's opinions and what they've done (if anyone has of 
yet) in the past.

I can learn and figure this out.  It's interesting to me too.

But if you know of someone that is available for hire I may be able to put them 
to use here.  I'd rather not forget to ask questions or massively underestimate 
the costs involved!

thanks,
marlon

  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in over 
your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from someone that has 
actually done this type of work and knows what they are doing.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 
Thanks.

Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is 
build in a circle?
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
$15,000 per link for everything.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
Hi All,

I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic.

I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load 
share
across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of 
connectivity
in any direction.

What would you guys use/suggest?

I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but 
unlicensed
may be OK due to the failover capabilities.

We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.

What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?

I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, 
I'd
rather over estimate the costs.

thanks,
marlon




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Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I liked the idea of running a bridged backhaul.  Is that not practical for 
this?

I'm hoping to have much lower latency and administrative overhead (less 
routes to try and keep track of).

thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "can...@believewireless.net" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


> We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF
> without backups on the individual links.  We spec our links to be as
> close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible.  We continue to try
> to create loops in the network.  For example, if you have a high-end
> commercial customer, sell them a backup link to another tower as part
> of the package.  You've now created another link between towers and
> added another loop to your network.
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jack Unger  wrote:
>> Marlon,
>>
>> Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" 
>> is
>> more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who
>> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do
>> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>>
>> jack
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>>
>> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade 
>> outage
>> at 18 gig?
>>
>> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first 
>> place?
>> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
>> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Webster" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
>> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in 
>> for
>> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
>> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
>> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
>> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your 
>> primary
>> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
>> maybe not at full speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
>> build in a circle?
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Travis Johnson" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
>> $15,000 per link for everything.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
>> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>>
>> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
>> traffic.
>>
>> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
>> share
>> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
>> things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
>> connectivity
>> in any direction.
>>
>> What would you guys use/suggest?
>>
>> I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
>> unlicensed
>> may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
>>
>> We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.
>>
>> What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
>>
>> I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
>> numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low,
>> I'd
>> rather over estimate the costs.
>>
>> thanks,
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --
>>
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>>
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>> WISPA Wirel

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Mike Hammett]

OSPF is how you manage load sharing and load balancing.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:36 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

> Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this 
> already though.
>
> And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just 
> bigger and faster.
>
> I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested 
> in what people would install.  I know there are a few people here that 
> have very high speed backbone systems in place.
>
> The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load 
> sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done 
> via high end switch or router?
>
> If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together 
> please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will 
> be able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction 
> starts.  The program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build 
> it THIS way specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make sense? 
> That is part of why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more 
> questions than plans in place.  Things are still at a conceptual stage, 
> but I'm trying to drill down a bit better.
>
> Thanks!
> marlon
>
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Jack Unger
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>  Marlon,
>
>  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" 
> is more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who 
> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do 
> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>
>  jack
>
>
>  Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>
> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage
> at 18 gig?
>
> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first 
> place?
> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for
> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary
> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
> maybe not at full speed.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
> build in a circle?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Johnson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
> $15,000 per link for everything.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>  Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>
> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
> traffic.
>
> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
> share
> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
> things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
> connectivity
> in any direction.
>
> What would you guys use/suggest?
>
> I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
> unlicensed
> may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
>
> We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.
>
> What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
>
> I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
> numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low,
> I'd
> rather over estimate the costs.
>
> thanks,
> marlon
>
>
>
> -
>---
>   

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Certainly Jack.  I don't know anyone that's built something like this already 
though.

And, it's really not that far off from what we already do.  It's just bigger 
and faster.

I've not used the hardware needed for this system so I'm mostly interested in 
what people would install.  I know there are a few people here that have very 
high speed backbone systems in place.

The one part that's got me stumped so far is what to do to create a load 
sharing load balancing mechanism at the main towers.  Should that be done via 
high end switch or router?

If you know someone that would be good help in putting this idea together 
please feel free to have them contact me.  Please note, that nothing will be 
able to happen at a nut and bolt specific level until construction starts.  The 
program is customer and land acquisition specific, not build it THIS way 
specific.  Did I say that at all clearly?  Does it make sense?  That is part of 
why I've not even looked for help yet, there are far more questions than plans 
in place.  Things are still at a conceptual stage, but I'm trying to drill down 
a bit better.

Thanks!
marlon

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jack Unger 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  Marlon,

  Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" is 
more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who actually 
has this type of network design experience and paying them to do the whole job 
right the first time? Just asking.

  jack


  Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 
I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.

How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage 
at 18 gig?

Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place? 
I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul. 
I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Webster" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for
links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary
link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
maybe not at full speed.



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


Thanks.

Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
build in a circle?
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
$15,000 per link for everything.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  Hi All,

I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet 
traffic.

I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
share
across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
connectivity
in any direction.

What would you guys use/suggest?

I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
unlicensed
may be OK due to the failover capabilities.

We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.

What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?

I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low,
I'd
rather over estimate the costs.

thanks,
marlon



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Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request

[David Hulsebus]

I'll echo what Tom has said.

I was successful in working with municipalities when was I was able to 
show benefit to them. "Your constituents don't just want this they need 
this". Ask a number of folks who actually want the service to attend the 
board meeting for support. They heard loud and clear what they needed. I 
was even able to reduce our fees for the tanks by showing losses for as 
long as a year until we were able to gain enough customers to pay the 
lease and some of the equipment costs back . We pay anywhere from $150 
per water tank through $350 per tank and are located on 10 tanks across 
three water districts. Some are easier to work with than others.

Something we have done for one of the water companies is use our systems 
to transmit control data to and from tanks for them - a big savings for 
them. We now maintain all their radio communications for them.

We adjusted their antennas moved by a hurricane last year, we physically 
look at their tanks every time we are on site. I don't have one water 
company I work for that has anyone on staff willing to climb a tank. If 
a problem appears we notify them and also notify them prior to going on 
any of their sites - they like that.

One thing to remember about water tanks - they are very expensive to 
build and maintain - as much as 250K to paint. We've had a few board 
members continue to vote no for lease renewals based on benefit vs risk. 
They have said that for the few hundred they get from us - it just 
doesn't justify the risk. The primary purpose is to deliver water.

We proposed nothing but hot dipped galvanized parts or stainless steel 
equipment on the tanks, and are on the hook if we damage the tank. They 
hate seeing rust run down the side of a tank - very unsightly. We have 
never been able to do any welding on tanks - but now - new tanks that 
are built - we work with the engineers to design mounts for us to use 
prior to construction.

Hope this helps.

David Hulsebus
Portative Technologies
www.portative.com


Michael Baird wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was 
> also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's 
> done the presentation dance in front of the municipality.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is.  Their objective is not 
>> always to enable broadband expansion.
>> Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. 
>> Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you 
>> $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, 
>> because of the economic development need to the community to deliver 
>> broadband.  You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, 
>> and get them excited about broadband.
>>
>> You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address 
>> concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water 
>> tower.  You'll want to document insurance.  But mostly, you'll want to 
>> document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to 
>> offer a "direct benefit" to the town government as well. (For example, 
>> inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues).
>>
>> You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so 
>> you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative.
>>
>> Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years 
>> renewable for up to 20 years.)
>>
>> Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying 
>> the spectrum ranges that you will be using.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower
>>> to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience
>>> dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board
>>> agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to
>>> use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what
>>> information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention
>>> to when trying to get space on the tower.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[Travis Johnson]

Marlon,

Honestly, based on the questions you are asking, I think you may be in
over your head on this project. You may want to seek some help from
someone that has actually done this type of work and knows what they
are doing.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  Thanks.

Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is 
build in a circle?
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul


  
  
Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
$15,000 per link for everything.

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


  Hi All,

I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.

I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet traffic.

I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load 
share
across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of 
connectivity
in any direction.

What would you guys use/suggest?

I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but 
unlicensed
may be OK due to the failover capabilities.

We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.

What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?

I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low, 
I'd
rather over estimate the costs.

thanks,
marlon




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Re: [WISPA] radio mobile

[Edward H. Winters]

Marlon,

Here's the simplest how-to for radio mobile that i know of
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/14302

Ed

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 21:20:08 -0800
"Marlon K. Schafer"  wrote:

> Um, can I pick a location, input some information about my antenna at that 
> area and create a printable map?
> 
> If I can't do that I've certainly picked the wrong program for what I want 
> to do.  I could have sworn that I'd seen coverage maps that were done with 
> rm though.
> 
> Do you have a suggestion for a product that would do a better job of what 
> I'm trying to do?
> 
> The only other one I know of was the one that wpcs used to have, but it was 
> something like $50k.  There was one that EC used to sell coverage maps from, 
> but I don't remember who made them.  Kingston or something like that?  Each 
> map was in the thousands as I recall.
> 
> thanks,
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> 
> 
> > Oh, and by the way, Radio Mobile is not a mapping program, it just happens
> > to use maps to display the engineering results it has the ability to
> > calculate.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank You,
> > Brian Webster
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:25 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >
> >
> > I understand that.  Why do you think I'm even trying to learn it?
> >
> > Still, programmers shouldn't be so danged lazy!  How hard can it be to put 
> > a
> > good install program in place?  Or a map (hey, what a thing for a mapping
> > program to include!) that you can click on to download the data you are
> > interested in
> > marlon
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Mark McElvy" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >
> >
> >> You may think it is a POS but try and buy something that can do what it
> >> can.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:11 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>
> >> Sold!
> >>
> >> I tried to download the terrain data, but I got the NED instead of the
> >> srtm.
> >> I don't know which data set to get.  WHAT a POS system this is!
> >>
> >> Also, I don't have paypal.  If you'll take a cc or check I'm in.
> >>
> >> laters,
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'll get you from zero to terrain analysis in about an hour.
> >>>
> >>> You'll need to get your SRTM data loaded first - do you know how to do
> >>> that?
> >>>
> >>> We can use ZOHO Web Meeting.
> >>>
> >>> Price 100.00 paid via PayPal
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>>
> >>> airCloud Communications
> >>> Broadband for Business
> >>> Public and Private WiFi
> >>>
> >>> Jerry Richardson
> >>> VP Operations
> >>> 925-260-4119
> >>> _
> >>>
> >>> ConsuWISP
> >>> RF Topographical Coverage Maps
> >>> Network Optimization and Planning
> >>> Network Design and Troubleshooting
> >>> Installer and Technician Training
> >>>
> >>> Please consider the environment before printing this email
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> >> On
> >>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:54 AM
> >>> To: WISPA General List
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>>
> >>> I don't have time (or the desire) to wade through a bunch of
> >>> documentation.
> >>>
> >>> I'll pay someone for their time.
> >>>
> >>> thanks,
> >>> marlon
> >>>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> >>> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:10 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] radio mobile
> >>>
> >>>
>  Uhm...ya...
> 
>  Try this...
> 
>  http://www.pizon.org/radio-mobile-tutorial/index.html
> 
>  Josh Luthman
>  Office: 937-552-2340
>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>  1100 Wayne St
>  Suite 1337
>  Troy, OH 45373
> 
>  Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>  --- Henry Spencer
> 
> 
>  On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:43 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
>  wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I need to learn how to use this program.  I can't even figure out
> >> how
> >>> to
> > get
> > started with it (less than user friendly isn't it!) though.  Anyone
> > willing
> > to spend some time on the phone and help me figure out th

Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul

[can...@believewireless.net]

We have the ring configuration with licensed links running OSPF
without backups on the individual links.  We spec our links to be as
close to 99.999% at full modulation as possible.  We continue to try
to create loops in the network.  For example, if you have a high-end
commercial customer, sell them a backup link to another tower as part
of the package.  You've now created another link between towers and
added another loop to your network.

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Jack Unger  wrote:
> Marlon,
>
> Trying to design a complex system like this via a listserve "committee" is
> more than a little bit risky. Have you considered going to someone who
> actually has this type of network design experience and paying them to do
> the whole job right the first time? Just asking.
>
> jack
> - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>
> I don't know if I'll be able to put some many antennas on the towers.
>
> How close together would I need the towers to prevent the rain fade outage
> at 18 gig?
>
> Aren't there any 5.8 systems that will do this reliably in the first place?
> I shouldn't need 5.x for distribution so I could use it all for backhaul.
> I'll have 2.4, 3.65, 4.9 and hopefully, someday, TVBD for the consumers.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>
>
> The 5.8 GHz backup links will help you deal with outages due to
> environmental conditions such as rain fade. That has to be factored in for
> links when you operate above 10 GHz. Even if you run a loop configuration
> you could have a fade condition that could block out a whole tower site
> severing your links to that location in both directions of your loop.
> Another path at a lower frequency with spatial diversity from your primary
> link (different mounting heights) would at least keep that site up though
> maybe not at full speed.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:26 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Do you think we need the unlicensed for each hop if the entire network is
> build in a circle?
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Travis Johnson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 100 meg full duplex backhaul
>
>
>
>
> Licensed 18ghz links with 5.8ghz backup links for each hop. Figure
> $15,000 per link for everything.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for some gear that'll be rock solid at 15 to 20 miles.  Some
> links may be less, but I'm not counting on that.
>
> I'll be hauling public safety, private vpns, and normal internet
> traffic.
>
> I'll probably have around 20 towers, all linked in a ring.  I can load
> share
> across the ring as long as speeds never drop below 100megs.  I'll want
> things to be automatically self healing if there is a loss of
> connectivity
> in any direction.
>
> What would you guys use/suggest?
>
> I'd love to go licensed (but no 6 gig due to antenna sizes) but
> unlicensed
> may be OK due to the failover capabilities.
>
> We have to worry about snow, fog and, worst of all, dust storms.
>
> What gear would you use?  How would you set this up?
>
> I'm in the pricing stage so off list quotes etc. are welcome.  Pall park
> numbers are fine at this time, as long as they tend to run high vs. low,
> I'd
> rather over estimate the costs.
>
> thanks,
> marlon
>
>
>
> -
>
>
> ---
>
>
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
> --
>
>
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>
> 
> 
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