Re: [WISPA] fiber termination

[George Rogato]

We just terminated some fiber we put in. Used hot melt and hand polished 
the the fiber.
It took no more than an hour to do 6 strands on each end. Maube 1 1/2 hour.
Not sure which connectors you are using, but those can be expensive as 
well. I think we must have paid about 15.00 per connctor.

George


Scott Carullo wrote:
> Never heard of 5 strand but ok
> 
> 10 ends maybe 20 each
> 1 tech an hour each end
> 
> Maybe 350 + or minus 50
> 
> That's without termination boxes - media converters etc
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> (321) 205-1100 x102
> 
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:16 PM, chris cooper   
> wrote:
> 
>> Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
>> termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
>> already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate  
>> the
>> ends.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Chris Cooper
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[George Rogato]

Butch Evans wrote:
 > This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.

Maybe for you Butch, but I am thinking this was a very useful and 
informative thread and I hate to see someone stifled because of one mans 
disdain.

We should all be able to discuss and hash things out without worrying we 
are going to offend anyone. We are after all, professionals here.

George



> On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 22:02 -0400, mlio...@r337.com wrote:
>> MetroConnect's SEC filings state they had $2k of cash on hand. Since that
>> time MetroConnect's revenue has declined each quarter and now they state
>> their cash on hand is $0.
> 
> This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.  If you want to argue petty
> points, do so OFFLIST.  If you wish to provide information that is
> useful, then please do so.  
> 



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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[George Rogato]

Not sure about load balancing, as for policy routing, thats easy. We do 
that with a bsd box.
I would assume all the routers, imagestream, MT, Star, Cisco, etc etc.
can handle various wans with policy routing. We just haven't done our 
router upgrade yet and handle ours on an older bsd box.

George

Alan Long wrote:
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
> 
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830 
> 
> 
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
> 
> 
> tel: 
> mobile: 
> 
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
> 
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> 
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>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[John Scrivner]

>
> Cell radius= 30km

> The point is for a TCO, that's one tower site to cover a
> 20km radius, meaning less leases per month of 1k or more, so isntead of 4
> tower sites to cover this area ( and pay 4k per month )
>

So...how are you breaking the laws of physics with this system? Unless
you are serving the middle of the dessert then you probably need to
back your cell radius down to say 3km. I see above you use 2 different
cell radius figures. Is it possible you are overstating expectations
in a big way here Jeff? I am a proponent of WiMax but I am getting
sick and tired of seeing bloated specs to sell systems. It is NOT
something I want to see and I feel that these false representations
have hurt WiMax adoption for years.
Scriv



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Mike Hammett]

I understand Matt wanting to stay out of it.  We've all been here before. 
It never went anywhere  same as Moto vs. Mikrotik.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Butch Evans" 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:46 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

> On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 14:01 -0400, Matt Liotta wrote:
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and
>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else
>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced
>> and not particularly interesting.
>
> WiMAX obviously has some things to offer.  It was written specifically
> as an outdoor wireless specification.  I think your summarization is a
> little short of the truth, though.  It would be nice, IMO, if you, as an
> "operator who acutally [has] experience in the field with the gear"
> would at least answer the question instead of sitting on a high-horse.
>
> -- 
> 
> * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
> * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
> * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
> * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
> 
>
>
>
>
> 
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> 



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[WISPA] MVNO

[Mike Hammett]

Has anyone worked with\as an MVNO before?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles]

*sighs* 

I did my best to keep it very focused. 


--Original Message--
From: Butch Evans
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List
ReplyTo: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
Sent: Apr 22, 2009 7:49 PM

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 22:02 -0400, mlio...@r337.com wrote:
> MetroConnect's SEC filings state they had $2k of cash on hand. Since that
> time MetroConnect's revenue has declined each quarter and now they state
> their cash on hand is $0.

This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.  If you want to argue petty
points, do so OFFLIST.  If you wish to provide information that is
useful, then please do so.  

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 22:02 -0400, mlio...@r337.com wrote:
> MetroConnect's SEC filings state they had $2k of cash on hand. Since that
> time MetroConnect's revenue has declined each quarter and now they state
> their cash on hand is $0.

This thread has degraded WAY beyond useful.  If you want to argue petty
points, do so OFFLIST.  If you wish to provide information that is
useful, then please do so.  

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[mliotta]

> That may be, but Aperto did issue a press release for one customer. And,
> it turns out that customer only has one radio authorization. Further, you
> mention Tolly Marcus, but what about you? Did you not represent yourself
> at WiMAX World as a Zing employee?
>
> What are people supposed to think given the situation? Did Zing pick
> Aperto based on merit or an employee relationship? Does Zing have more
> than one Aperto radio deployed? Either they haven't deployed many radios
> or they have done so illegally. Both possibilities seem to make them a
> poor choice for Aperto to use as a representative customer. This is
> especially true given both Patrick and your statements regarding how
> little Aperto issues press releases. Shouldn't that mean the press
> releases actually issued are more important?
>
It turns out I made a mistake. In further reading it appears that Zing is
not the only customer Aperto issued a press release for. There was also a
press release issued for NextPhase Wireless now called MetroConnect.
Interestingly, MetroConnect has zero radio authorizations. Also of
interest is the following quote from the Aperto press release:

"This is the first of many significant wins we expect to announce this
year in the 3.65 GHz band in the U.S.," said Manish Gupta, Vice President
of Marketing & Alliances for Aperto Networks and WiMAX Forum Board Member.

The above quote seems to suggest to the reader that MetroConnect is a
significant win and that Aperto would announce additional significant wins
in the future. To date the only other announcement was Zing. Now maybe
MetroConnect bought a bunch of radios and didn't bother to register them
with the FCC. Of course, you have to wonder how significant of a win
MetroConnect could be when during the quarter the press release was issued
MetroConnect's SEC filings state they had $2k of cash on hand. Since that
time MetroConnect's revenue has declined each quarter and now they state
their cash on hand is $0.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles]

Excellent replies! Thank you! 


Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Jeff Booher" 

Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:04:34 
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors


Folks, 

IMHO, It really comes down to a cost benefit analysis.

So an 802.11 or canopy system might run you a lot less CAPEX, but it carries
more OPEX. 

So if in a given tower site you pay 200 / mo per antenna deployed on a
tower, wimax might be cheaper than a lower system that cannot scale to say,
100-250 subscribers effectively. In addition to backhaul costs if you go
carrier class. 

So lets break down the real costs:

Cell radius= 30km
Wimax Sector, carrier class: 7,500 ( 20k ) on a lease of 36 months, 750 per
month
PTP licensed radio: 12,000 on a lease of 36 months, 500 per month.
Cost per subscriber: 299 (150 after install paid by customer )
ARPU per subscriber: 60 ( voice + data package ) 
Lease per tower, 3 sectors+ backhaul and : 1000
Total subscriber count per tower: 500 ( 5 month build out, 100 subs per mo )


Calculate it out and you show 270k in annualized revenue for 1 tower site,
that can easily support this model for a basic internet plus phone service
with no hiccups, and likely still have capacity left up to 750 subs on 3
sectors. Yes the rules of oversubscription apply, you cant sell 750 business
grade circuits. The point is for a TCO, that's one tower site to cover a
20km radius, meaning less leases per month of 1k or more, so isntead of 4
tower sites to cover this area ( and pay 4k per month )

If you are just calculating your break point on your tower costs, you break
even at a 100 subs per month click, at 3 months in. On your subscriber
stations, if you carry the cost, it takes 6 months per subscriber. However
on a 12 month basis you are @ 270k with 170k in cost, or 100k in profit. 

MOT canopy example

Cell radius= 10km
Cascade networks canopy system: 3 per tower, 9 sectors: 2500 x 9 = 20,000 
PTP licensed radio: 48,000 on a lease of 36 months, 3000 per month.
Cost per subscriber: 250 (150 after install paid by customer )
ARPU per subscriber: 30-  data only package 
Lease per tower, 3 sectors+ backhaul and : 1000
Total subscriber count per tower: 150 ( 5 month build out, 100 subs per mo )

Tower sites: 3

Revenue per MO @ 500 subscribers 15,000. ( 150k a year in revenue ) 


So since you cant really effectively provide carrier class voice you sell
only data.

To cover the same area with 1 tower it takes you 3 towers which triples your
OPEX for towers and triples the # of base stations needed, as well as
triples the backhaul costs, while impacting where you are with your revenue.


-

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with the
gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the threads
quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this mailing list. To
summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and think the technology
is actually different and better than what else is out there. The people who
don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced and not particularly interesting.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:

> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my 
> primary goal.
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
>> experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved 
>> range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 
>> thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm 
>> trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or 
>> the other is superior.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read 
>>> up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
>>> (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
>>> wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of 
>>> whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much 
>>> sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are 
>>> supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) 
>>> then it makes a lot more sense.
>>>
>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an 
>>> un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to 
>>> deploy standard
>>> 802.11
>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate 
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to 
>>>

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[mliotta]

> We have several customers in the market with trials or actually deployed.
> I
> cant help if they all havent gotten their FCC licenses *duck*, or fully
> executed in their plans. Remember as well, not EVERYONE uses 3.65ghz, and
> many customers use 5.8 or 5.4.
>
Actually you can help. As a participant in the 3650 ecosystem you should
be highly interested in everyone playing by the same rules. After all, if
3650 gets ruined you'll have a hard time selling 3650 radios.

> As far as Tolly marcus being employed by aperto, he does work as a
> contractor for Wireless Connections in sales, but is actively engaged in
> deploying his networks throughout his focused regions. Its not all
> however,
> 3.65ghz. We don't actually make a press release every time we win an
> operator account either, nor do any other manufacturers. Additionally, in
> 3.65ghz, I don't believe alvarion is shipping a fully implemented true "e"
> system but rather a modified D system with diversity and MRC.
>
That may be, but Aperto did issue a press release for one customer. And,
it turns out that customer only has one radio authorization. Further, you
mention Tolly Marcus, but what about you? Did you not represent yourself
at WiMAX World as a Zing employee?

What are people supposed to think given the situation? Did Zing pick
Aperto based on merit or an employee relationship? Does Zing have more
than one Aperto radio deployed? Either they haven't deployed many radios
or they have done so illegally. Both possibilities seem to make them a
poor choice for Aperto to use as a representative customer. This is
especially true given both Patrick and your statements regarding how
little Aperto issues press releases. Shouldn't that mean the press
releases actually issued are more important?

> Remember as well we didn't release 3.650 product until about 6 months
> after
> Redline, so you cant expect there to be a lot out there for you to find in
> the FCC database. As well, we have a lot more history, more products, and
> actually more carrier customers than Redline does internationally and in
> the
> US. If you would like a list of our US or international customer base,
> feel
> free to hit me off list.
>
Sure I'll take a list.

> Finally I find that many operators recommend what they buy: in your case
> you
> bought a bunch of Redline. Most folks would never make a reccmeondation
> for
> another solution esp when they work for a publically traded company, that
> would look pretty bad wouldn't it? You have your Bias, and will likely
> stick
> to that. With the same thing in mind, your business model is quite unique
> in
> the market as you sell large PTP connections and not multipoint
> connections
> to small business / consumer. Redline may be a good fit for you then.
> Please
> however don't make any judgements on our product when you have never
> tested
> it, deployed it, received a quotation, or talked to one of our many
> customers.
>
You must not have read my post thoroughly. I specifically pointed out that
I don't have any direct experience with Aperto. However, I needed to
provide a reasoned response as to why I didn't suggest Aperto as a WiMAX
vendor.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Gino Villarini]

Jeff,  Can you or anyone expand on the 3.65 802.16d scalability topic?
 
How is the GPS sync and channel reuse on your product?
 
Is it merly to be able to tightly accomodate 3 BTS in 21 mhz? or can i reuse 
channels per site?
 
Can i install 6 base stations with 3 channels? have Towers close by and reuse 
channels among them?
Can I instal a 90 deg 4 sector tower with just 2 channels?
 
Gino 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Jeff Booher
Sent: Wed 4/22/2009 8:33 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors



All,

 I work for a vendor ( Aperto )  so take this as you will.  Like most
vendors out there there are differences for everything. Veccima is a pico
solution, which means that they are using a wavesat chipset on the base and
CPE, so the major difference between veccima and alvarion and Aperto would
be PPS, QOS, features, throughput, and scalablity.

Aperto and Redline are pretty close in PPS, and alvarion and veccima are
less, with Airspan and tranzeo having the lowest pps. From a cost
perspective it looks like this:

Pricing

Redline : 1 ( 3 sector base 30k street, cpe 400 )
Alvarion: 2 (3 sector base 24k street, cpe 350-400 ) 
Airspan 3 ( 3 sector base 22k street, cpe 400-500 )
Aperto: 4 ( 3 sector base 20k street, cpe 280-400 )
Veccima: 5 (3 sector  base 17k street, cpe 250-350)
Tranzeo 6: ( 3 sector base 6k street, cpe 250-350 ) 


PPS / # of clients supported realistically
1. Aperto ( 30k pps / sector )
2. Redline claims to be in the same range, but I havent verifed this
3. Alvarion ( 4000 pps )
4. Veccima ( same range as alvarion )
5. airspan ( low )
6. Tranzeo ( only supports 30 clients )

Throughput: Almost everyone supports around 20mb / sec on a 7mhz channel,
except alvarion which only supports 12mb on a 5mhz channel.

The biggest factors to consider is PPS if you are doing voice or want to
support a high # of subs per tower site, as you are limited to 3 channels in
3.65ghz. Price is a consideration, but the biggest issue with Tranzeo is
they have no sync port on the base station so you could have interference
issues when you try to deploy 3 on a tower ( you need 14mhz seperation if
you don't have sync with wimax )

So in conclusion- want a cheap solution to support 30 subs of a single
sector? Tranzeo is a good bet. Want something more carrier class? Redline or
Aperto are a good fit.

The final consideration is QOS. We recently were selected by a customer
because of this and when they compared EVERYONE here we had by far the most
Stable quality of service, and by far the most networking features. Aperto
also holds several wimax patents in regards to QOS.

Finally we also have multiple frequenices, like 5.8, 5.4, 4.9, 2.5 solutions
so you wont be tied to one band. I think only Airspan supports 5ghz in
Wimax, except for us.

Jeff Booher

Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com
jboo...@apertonet.com
jefftho...@fastmail.fm
24/7: 206-455-4950

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-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Hair
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:58 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

We're also looking to deploy Wimax at a couple of our tower locations to
provide higher bandwidth to business customers and take a load off some of
our 900 APs. One vendor we are looking at is Vecima Networks. Anyone out
there using VistaMAX 3.65 GHz from Vecima. I would be very interested in
some real world experiences with this vendor. Pro and cons...

Thanks in Advance

Chris




What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and arm
chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology and
want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not
> be valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly
> going to deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set
> expectations properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower,
> and reading marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly
> doesn't help clear up the differences and advantages to the technology.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it
>> and t

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

FYI Ben, we are finally fixing ( or fixed ) that issue with running as a
service and now have 
A version for oracle. Sorry tranzeo is 00gly :)

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Wyble
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!!

Ben Wiechman wrote:
> We've looked at several different vendors for WiMAX and have been 
> running Alvarion in 2.5GHz for almost 18 months now. Aperto seems to 
> have a decent RF platform, as does Redline and Alvarion. We had two 
> main issues with
> Aperto: ugly Tranzeo CPE and their EMS. Maybe some things have changed 
> by the EMS was required to configure each base station and MS as it 
> entered the network, however ran only on windows and didn't run as a 
> service. So one clown closing the window and your network was dead in 
> the water. Redline appears to have a solid product as well as does
Alvarion.
> 
> As was stated earlier the biggest reason to look at WiMAX is for 
> differentiated services. If voice or a high quality data play is in 
> your business plan it makes sense. If you are suffering from 
> interference issues, and spectrum is becoming much more polluted 
> everywhere, so 3650 does help in that regard.
> 
> With access to 2.5GHz spectrum for us WiMAX was an option we 
> considered purely for the penetration. The bulk of our subscriber base 
> was only accessible using 900MHz access points, and we quickly outgrew 
> the capacity of the Canopy APs we have been using and also are 
> suffering increasingly from interference from a number of sources: 
> RFID, baby monitors, a couple lingering paging companies, GPS 
> correction for farming, saturation due to excessive numbers of Access 
> POints to try to meet bandwidth demands, etc. We also didn't feel that 
> we would be able to offer services other than basic broadband access 
> across the Canopy platform. The 16e standard is valuable for us due to 
> the penetration provided by MIMO and beamforming that are available 
> within the standard. We could care less about the mobility (and added
overhead) but its hard to get one without the other.
> 
> If you've got clean spectrum and are only looking to deploy basic data 
> access WiMAX probably doesn't make sense. If you have access to 
> licensed spectrum, want to deploy differentiated services, or are 
> looking at 3650 WiMAX may make sense. 16d will have less overhead and 
> less cost: the complexities of the mobile platform are not there, nor 
> do you need additional network components like an ASN-GW, and 
> typically provisioning is greatly simplified. The problem you run into 
> on the 16e side is that every vendor is only thinking about Clearwire 
> and not considering the WISP and the price point a WISP is able to
justify.
> 
> Ben Wiechman
> Wisper High Speed Internet
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Pat O'Connor  wrote:
> 
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
>>> experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved 
>>> range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 
>>> thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm 
>>> trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or
the other is superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read 
 up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
 (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
 wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of 
 whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much 
 sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are 
 supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff)
then it makes a lot more sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an 
 un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to 
 deploy standard 802.11 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this
an accurate assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to 
 purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get 
 from Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access 
 it will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and 
 post sales engineering) etc e

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

Sadly they are getting low on cash too

Redline is in the same boat.

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Pat O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

Geeze.  Not comforting at all.



Aperto is my first choice now because I believe they use TR-069.  But I
wanted to see if anyone had used Airspan's Macromax product.




Matt Liotta wrote:
>
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/business/epaper/2009/04/20/04
20airspan.html
>
> -Matt
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Pat O'Connor wrote:
>
>   
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>> 
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>   
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
 read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
 (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
 they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
 mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
 sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
 un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
 assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
 purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
 it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
 post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.






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>>
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>>


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--

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

Matt,

We have several customers in the market with trials or actually deployed. I
cant help if they all havent gotten their FCC licenses *duck*, or fully
executed in their plans. Remember as well, not EVERYONE uses 3.65ghz, and
many customers use 5.8 or 5.4. 

As far as Tolly marcus being employed by aperto, he does work as a
contractor for Wireless Connections in sales, but is actively engaged in
deploying his networks throughout his focused regions. Its not all however,
3.65ghz. We don't actually make a press release every time we win an
operator account either, nor do any other manufacturers. Additionally, in
3.65ghz, I don't believe alvarion is shipping a fully implemented true "e"
system but rather a modified D system with diversity and MRC. 
 
Remember as well we didn't release 3.650 product until about 6 months after
Redline, so you cant expect there to be a lot out there for you to find in
the FCC database. As well, we have a lot more history, more products, and
actually more carrier customers than Redline does internationally and in the
US. If you would like a list of our US or international customer base, feel
free to hit me off list. 

Finally I find that many operators recommend what they buy: in your case you
bought a bunch of Redline. Most folks would never make a reccmeondation for
another solution esp when they work for a publically traded company, that
would look pretty bad wouldn't it? You have your Bias, and will likely stick
to that. With the same thing in mind, your business model is quite unique in
the market as you sell large PTP connections and not multipoint connections
to small business / consumer. Redline may be a good fit for you then. Please
however don't make any judgements on our product when you have never tested
it, deployed it, received a quotation, or talked to one of our many
customers. 





Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com
jboo...@apertonet.com
jefftho...@fastmail.fm
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.

 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors


On Apr 22, 2009, at 3:17 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Matt,
>
> How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable?
>
I don't think anything from my first paragraph makes Aperto not viable. I am
not sure I even like the term viable. I wouldn't suggest Aperto or recommend
them as a WiMAX vendor. Of course, I don't have any direct experience with
Aperto's current product line. Therefore, I can't compare and contrast their
offerings to other WiMAX vendors that I do have experience with. Anecdotical
evidence suggests that Aperto is not widely deployed. According to Aperto's
press releases I only see one company mentioned that has deployed their
WiMAX gear in the US. I don't know much about Zing to which the press
release mentions.  
What I do know is that according to ULS they have only been approved to
deploy a single Aperto radio. Further, at WiMAX World last year it seemed
that Zing's CTO was employed by Aperto in sales. Compare this to Redline and
Alvarion, which have lots of approved radios in ULS and multiple US
customers including some large customers.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Gino Villarini]

What about solectek, winetwoks and proxim?

Sent from my Motorola Startac...


On Apr 22, 2009, at 8:35 PM, "Jeff Booher"   
wrote:

> All,
>
> I work for a vendor ( Aperto )  so take this as you will.  Like most
> vendors out there there are differences for everything. Veccima is a  
> pico
> solution, which means that they are using a wavesat chipset on the  
> base and
> CPE, so the major difference between veccima and alvarion and Aperto  
> would
> be PPS, QOS, features, throughput, and scalablity.
>
> Aperto and Redline are pretty close in PPS, and alvarion and veccima  
> are
> less, with Airspan and tranzeo having the lowest pps. From a cost
> perspective it looks like this:
>
> Pricing
>
> Redline : 1 ( 3 sector base 30k street, cpe 400 )
> Alvarion: 2 (3 sector base 24k street, cpe 350-400 )
> Airspan 3 ( 3 sector base 22k street, cpe 400-500 )
> Aperto: 4 ( 3 sector base 20k street, cpe 280-400 )
> Veccima: 5 (3 sector  base 17k street, cpe 250-350)
> Tranzeo 6: ( 3 sector base 6k street, cpe 250-350 )
>
>
> PPS / # of clients supported realistically
> 1. Aperto ( 30k pps / sector )
> 2. Redline claims to be in the same range, but I havent verifed this
> 3. Alvarion ( 4000 pps )
> 4. Veccima ( same range as alvarion )
> 5. airspan ( low )
> 6. Tranzeo ( only supports 30 clients )
>
> Throughput: Almost everyone supports around 20mb / sec on a 7mhz  
> channel,
> except alvarion which only supports 12mb on a 5mhz channel.
>
> The biggest factors to consider is PPS if you are doing voice or  
> want to
> support a high # of subs per tower site, as you are limited to 3  
> channels in
> 3.65ghz. Price is a consideration, but the biggest issue with  
> Tranzeo is
> they have no sync port on the base station so you could have  
> interference
> issues when you try to deploy 3 on a tower ( you need 14mhz  
> seperation if
> you don't have sync with wimax )
>
> So in conclusion- want a cheap solution to support 30 subs of a single
> sector? Tranzeo is a good bet. Want something more carrier class?  
> Redline or
> Aperto are a good fit.
>
> The final consideration is QOS. We recently were selected by a  
> customer
> because of this and when they compared EVERYONE here we had by far  
> the most
> Stable quality of service, and by far the most networking features.  
> Aperto
> also holds several wimax patents in regards to QOS.
>
> Finally we also have multiple frequenices, like 5.8, 5.4, 4.9, 2.5  
> solutions
> so you wont be tied to one band. I think only Airspan supports 5ghz in
> Wimax, except for us.
>
> Jeff Booher
>
> Director of Sales, North America
> www.apertonet.com
> jboo...@apertonet.com
> jefftho...@fastmail.fm
> 24/7: 206-455-4950
>
> This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/ 
> or work
> product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,  
> reliance or
> distribution by others without express permission is strictly  
> prohibited. If
> you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and  
> delete all
> copies.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Christopher Hair
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:58 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
>
> We're also looking to deploy Wimax at a couple of our tower  
> locations to
> provide higher bandwidth to business customers and take a load off  
> some of
> our 900 APs. One vendor we are looking at is Vecima Networks. Anyone  
> out
> there using VistaMAX 3.65 GHz from Vecima. I would be very  
> interested in
> some real world experiences with this vendor. Pro and cons...
>
> Thanks in Advance
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> What he said. :)
>
> Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes  
> and arm
> chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology  
> and
> want real world information and actual operator feedback.
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> Matt,
>>
>> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the
>> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not
>> be valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly
>> going to deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set
>> expectations properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower,
>> and reading marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly
>> doesn't help clear up the differences and advantages to the  
>> technology.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with
>>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the
>>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this
>>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it
>>> and think the technology is actually different and better than what
>>> else is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is
>>> overpriced and not particularly i

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

All,

 I work for a vendor ( Aperto )  so take this as you will.  Like most
vendors out there there are differences for everything. Veccima is a pico
solution, which means that they are using a wavesat chipset on the base and
CPE, so the major difference between veccima and alvarion and Aperto would
be PPS, QOS, features, throughput, and scalablity. 

Aperto and Redline are pretty close in PPS, and alvarion and veccima are
less, with Airspan and tranzeo having the lowest pps. From a cost
perspective it looks like this:

Pricing

Redline : 1 ( 3 sector base 30k street, cpe 400 ) 
Alvarion: 2 (3 sector base 24k street, cpe 350-400 )  
Airspan 3 ( 3 sector base 22k street, cpe 400-500 )
Aperto: 4 ( 3 sector base 20k street, cpe 280-400 ) 
Veccima: 5 (3 sector  base 17k street, cpe 250-350) 
Tranzeo 6: ( 3 sector base 6k street, cpe 250-350 )  


PPS / # of clients supported realistically
1. Aperto ( 30k pps / sector ) 
2. Redline claims to be in the same range, but I havent verifed this
3. Alvarion ( 4000 pps ) 
4. Veccima ( same range as alvarion ) 
5. airspan ( low ) 
6. Tranzeo ( only supports 30 clients ) 

Throughput: Almost everyone supports around 20mb / sec on a 7mhz channel,
except alvarion which only supports 12mb on a 5mhz channel.

The biggest factors to consider is PPS if you are doing voice or want to
support a high # of subs per tower site, as you are limited to 3 channels in
3.65ghz. Price is a consideration, but the biggest issue with Tranzeo is
they have no sync port on the base station so you could have interference
issues when you try to deploy 3 on a tower ( you need 14mhz seperation if
you don't have sync with wimax ) 

So in conclusion- want a cheap solution to support 30 subs of a single
sector? Tranzeo is a good bet. Want something more carrier class? Redline or
Aperto are a good fit. 

The final consideration is QOS. We recently were selected by a customer
because of this and when they compared EVERYONE here we had by far the most
Stable quality of service, and by far the most networking features. Aperto
also holds several wimax patents in regards to QOS. 

Finally we also have multiple frequenices, like 5.8, 5.4, 4.9, 2.5 solutions
so you wont be tied to one band. I think only Airspan supports 5ghz in
Wimax, except for us. 

Jeff Booher
 
Director of Sales, North America
www.apertonet.com
jboo...@apertonet.com
jefftho...@fastmail.fm
24/7: 206-455-4950
 
This email may contain material that is confidential, privileged and/or work
product for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
distribution by others without express permission is strictly prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all
copies.


 


 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Hair
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:58 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

We're also looking to deploy Wimax at a couple of our tower locations to
provide higher bandwidth to business customers and take a load off some of
our 900 APs. One vendor we are looking at is Vecima Networks. Anyone out
there using VistaMAX 3.65 GHz from Vecima. I would be very interested in
some real world experiences with this vendor. Pro and cons...

Thanks in Advance

Chris




What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and arm
chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology and
want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not 
> be valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly 
> going to deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set 
> expectations properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, 
> and reading marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly 
> doesn't help clear up the differences and advantages to the technology.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with 
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the 
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this 
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it 
>> and think the technology is actually different and better than what 
>> else is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is 
>> overpriced and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my 
>>> primary goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> 
 It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
 experience reporting. Essentia

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Booher]

Folks, 

IMHO, It really comes down to a cost benefit analysis.

So an 802.11 or canopy system might run you a lot less CAPEX, but it carries
more OPEX. 

So if in a given tower site you pay 200 / mo per antenna deployed on a
tower, wimax might be cheaper than a lower system that cannot scale to say,
100-250 subscribers effectively. In addition to backhaul costs if you go
carrier class. 

So lets break down the real costs:

Cell radius= 30km
Wimax Sector, carrier class: 7,500 ( 20k ) on a lease of 36 months, 750 per
month
PTP licensed radio: 12,000 on a lease of 36 months, 500 per month.
Cost per subscriber: 299 (150 after install paid by customer )
ARPU per subscriber: 60 ( voice + data package ) 
Lease per tower, 3 sectors+ backhaul and : 1000
Total subscriber count per tower: 500 ( 5 month build out, 100 subs per mo )


Calculate it out and you show 270k in annualized revenue for 1 tower site,
that can easily support this model for a basic internet plus phone service
with no hiccups, and likely still have capacity left up to 750 subs on 3
sectors. Yes the rules of oversubscription apply, you cant sell 750 business
grade circuits. The point is for a TCO, that's one tower site to cover a
20km radius, meaning less leases per month of 1k or more, so isntead of 4
tower sites to cover this area ( and pay 4k per month )

If you are just calculating your break point on your tower costs, you break
even at a 100 subs per month click, at 3 months in. On your subscriber
stations, if you carry the cost, it takes 6 months per subscriber. However
on a 12 month basis you are @ 270k with 170k in cost, or 100k in profit. 

MOT canopy example

Cell radius= 10km
Cascade networks canopy system: 3 per tower, 9 sectors: 2500 x 9 = 20,000 
PTP licensed radio: 48,000 on a lease of 36 months, 3000 per month.
Cost per subscriber: 250 (150 after install paid by customer )
ARPU per subscriber: 30-  data only package 
Lease per tower, 3 sectors+ backhaul and : 1000
Total subscriber count per tower: 150 ( 5 month build out, 100 subs per mo )

Tower sites: 3

Revenue per MO @ 500 subscribers 15,000. ( 150k a year in revenue ) 


So since you cant really effectively provide carrier class voice you sell
only data.

To cover the same area with 1 tower it takes you 3 towers which triples your
OPEX for towers and triples the # of base stations needed, as well as
triples the backhaul costs, while impacting where you are with your revenue.


-

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with the
gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the threads
quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this mailing list. To
summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and think the technology
is actually different and better than what else is out there. The people who
don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced and not particularly interesting.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:

> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my 
> primary goal.
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
>> experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved 
>> range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 
>> thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm 
>> trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or 
>> the other is superior.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read 
>>> up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
>>> (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
>>> wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of 
>>> whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much 
>>> sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are 
>>> supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) 
>>> then it makes a lot more sense.
>>>
>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an 
>>> un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to 
>>> deploy standard
>>> 802.11
>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate 
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to 
>>> purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from 
>>> Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>>> Southern California), but it's been sl

Re: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios

[Jayson Baker]

I have a complete link.  Can't remember anything about it, other than it's
-48VDC.  1' antennas, I believe.  Maybe 23GHz?  DS3.  IDU and ODU.  AFAIK,
they work.  Paid $500 for them.  Make me and offer.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com
> links on them at a point in the nearby past.   I have the dishes that
> were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1
> models.  My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or
> OC3 Pcom radios.
>
> Does anyone know of a good source for those radios?   Please let me
> know.   Thanks!
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios

[lakeland]

Good luck Matt. There is a ton of 38 GHz stuff out there but other nands are 
quite scarce
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Matt Larsen - Lists 

Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:25:14 
To: WISPA General List; ; 
Subject: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios


Hello,

I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com 
links on them at a point in the nearby past.   I have the dishes that 
were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1 
models.  My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or 
OC3 Pcom radios. 

Does anyone know of a good source for those radios?   Please let me 
know.   Thanks!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Scott Carullo]

Yes rb493 is good but better option would be rb450g fast CPU lots of  
ram and 5gb ports all for about 150

And it can do everything you could want a router to do for your  
application

Might need rb1000 if you start doing CPU intensive rules etc

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Apr 22, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Dennis Burgess - LTI  wrote:

> RouterOS RB1000 will handle that, maybe even a 493AH :)
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> 
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> 
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Alan Long wrote:
>> No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about  
>> 450 users
>> across a 20mb wireless think.
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>>
>> What are the link speeds?
>>
>> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>>
>> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>>
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and  
>> support 450
>> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits  
>> from
>> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any  
>> experience
>> with gear to handle this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>>
>> Aerowire
>>
>> > rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830
>>
>>
>>  alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>
>>
>> tel:
>> mobile:
>>
>>
>> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>>
>> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>>
>>   
>> Want a
>> signature like this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date:  
>> 04/22/09
>> 08:49:00
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WI

Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Scott Carullo]

Also assuming 120v inside office environment ;)

Lots of assumptions going on without all the question answered

DSL?
Fiber?
Routing protocols?
Dynamic ups or static?
Form factor?
Do u need to manage it yourself -ie understand the os
Mission critical?

And the list goes on

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Apr 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Jeff Broadwick   
wrote:

> Oops, missed one...do you need rack-mount?
>
> Jeff
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:33 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about 450  
> users
> across a 20mb wireless think.
>
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>
> What are the link speeds?
>
> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>
> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>
> Jeff
> ImageStream
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and  
> support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits  
> from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any  
> experience
> with gear to handle this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
>
> Aerowire
>
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830
>
>
>  alan.l...@aerowire.net
>
>
> tel:
> mobile:
>
>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>
>   
> Want a
> signature like this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --- 
> --- 
> --
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date:  
> 04/22/09
> 08:49:00
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --- 
> --- 
> --
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Scott Carullo]

Doing this does not require a script and works great and is simple to  
implement with MT

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:39 PM, Josh Luthman  
 wrote:

> Unless someone knows a secret script I would avoid using MT for this  
> - I've
> seen minimal success with multiple WANs on MT.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Alan Long   
> wrote:
>
>> No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about  
>> 450 users
>> across a 20mb wireless think.
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>>
>> What are the link speeds?
>>
>> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>>
>> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>>
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and  
>> support 450
>> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits  
>> from
>> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any
>> experience
>> with gear to handle this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>>
>> Aerowire
>>
>> <
>> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
>> rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us>  
>> >>
>> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830
>>
>>
>>  alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>
>>
>> tel:
>> mobile:
>>
>>
>> <
>> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
>> mail=along5...@yahoo.com>  
>> >>
>> 3342759998
>>
>> <
>> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
>> mail=along5...@yahoo.com>  
>> >>
>> 336092
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <
>> https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
>> nvite=1>  
>> ><=en>
>> Always have my latest info
>>
>>   
>> Want a
>> signature like this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date:  
>> 04/22/09
>> 08:49:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
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--

Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Scott Carullo]

How can you suggest a router without those excellent questions being  
answered

That is the question ;)

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Charles Wyble   
wrote:

> Excellent questions to ask.
>
> I would recommend a mid range cisco router. Say the 1800 or 2800  
> series.
>
> Also Vyata makes some nice kit.
>
> Jeff Broadwick wrote:
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>>
>> What are the link speeds?
>>
>> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>>
>> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>>
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and  
>> support 450
>> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits  
>> from
>> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any  
>> experience
>> with gear to handle this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>>
>> Aerowire
>>
>> > rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830
>>
>>
>>  alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>
>>
>> tel:
>> mobile:
>>
>>
>> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>>
>> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>>
>>   
>> Want a
>> signature like this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Dennis Burgess - LTI]

Been doing it wrong.  I did a university with 24 DSL connections :(  
Took a while, works great. 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Josh Luthman wrote:
> Unless someone knows a secret script I would avoid using MT for this - I've
> seen minimal success with multiple WANs on MT.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Alan Long  wrote:
>
>   
>> No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about 450 users
>> across a 20mb wireless think.
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>>
>> What are the link speeds?
>>
>> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>>
>> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>>
>> Jeff
>> ImageStream
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>>
>> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
>> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
>> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any
>> experience
>> with gear to handle this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>>
>> Aerowire
>>
>> <
>> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
>> rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us>
>> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830
>>
>>
>>   alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>
>>
>> tel:
>> mobile:
>>
>>
>> <
>> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
>> mail=along5...@yahoo.com>
>> 3342759998
>>
>> <
>> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
>> mail=along5...@yahoo.com>
>> 336092
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <
>> https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
>> nvite=1<=en>
>> Always have my latest info
>>
>>   Want a
>> signature like this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
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>> 
>>
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>> 08:49:00
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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Dennis Burgess - LTI]

RouterOS RB1000 will handle that, maybe even a 493AH :)

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


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Alan Long wrote:
> No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about 450 users
> across a 20mb wireless think.
>
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>
> What are the link speeds?
>
> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>
> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>
> Jeff
> ImageStream 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
>
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 
>
>
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
>
>
> tel: 
> mobile: 
>
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
>
>  
>
>
>
>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>
>   Want a
> signature like this?
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 04/22/09
> 08:49:00
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios

[3-dB Networks]

Try American Communications... they should be able to get a hold of them for
you.

Also get a hold of the guys over at Skybeam (I'm sure you love the use of
that name ;-) Mesa has a bunch of P-Com links I think they are ripping out
for Dragonwave... I can't recall if they were 23GHz, 18GHz, or possibly
38GHz

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
>Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:25 PM
>To: WISPA General List; w...@part-15.org; w...@wispa.org
>Subject: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios
>
>Hello,
>
>I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com
>links on them at a point in the nearby past.   I have the dishes that
>were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1
>models.  My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or
>OC3 Pcom radios.
>
>Does anyone know of a good source for those radios?   Please let me
>know.   Thanks!
>
>Matt Larsen
>vistabeam.com
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!!

Ben Wiechman wrote:
> We've looked at several different vendors for WiMAX and have been running
> Alvarion in 2.5GHz for almost 18 months now. Aperto seems to have a decent
> RF platform, as does Redline and Alvarion. We had two main issues with
> Aperto: ugly Tranzeo CPE and their EMS. Maybe some things have changed by
> the EMS was required to configure each base station and MS as it entered the
> network, however ran only on windows and didn't run as a service. So one
> clown closing the window and your network was dead in the water. Redline
> appears to have a solid product as well as does Alvarion.
> 
> As was stated earlier the biggest reason to look at WiMAX is for
> differentiated services. If voice or a high quality data play is in your
> business plan it makes sense. If you are suffering from interference issues,
> and spectrum is becoming much more polluted everywhere, so 3650 does help in
> that regard.
> 
> With access to 2.5GHz spectrum for us WiMAX was an option we considered
> purely for the penetration. The bulk of our subscriber base was only
> accessible using 900MHz access points, and we quickly outgrew the capacity
> of the Canopy APs we have been using and also are suffering increasingly
> from interference from a number of sources: RFID, baby monitors, a couple
> lingering paging companies, GPS correction for farming, saturation due to
> excessive numbers of Access POints to try to meet bandwidth demands, etc. We
> also didn't feel that we would be able to offer services other than basic
> broadband access across the Canopy platform. The 16e standard is valuable
> for us due to the penetration provided by MIMO and beamforming that are
> available within the standard. We could care less about the mobility (and
> added overhead) but its hard to get one without the other.
> 
> If you've got clean spectrum and are only looking to deploy basic data
> access WiMAX probably doesn't make sense. If you have access to licensed
> spectrum, want to deploy differentiated services, or are looking at 3650
> WiMAX may make sense. 16d will have less overhead and less cost: the
> complexities of the mobile platform are not there, nor do you need
> additional network components like an ASN-GW, and typically provisioning is
> greatly simplified. The problem you run into on the 16e side is that every
> vendor is only thinking about Clearwire and not considering the WISP and the
> price point a WISP is able to justify.
> 
> Ben Wiechman
> Wisper High Speed Internet
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Pat O'Connor  wrote:
> 
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.




>> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Pat O'Connor]

Geeze.  Not comforting at all.



Aperto is my first choice now because I believe they use TR-069.  But I 
wanted to see if anyone had used Airspan's Macromax product.




Matt Liotta wrote:
> http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/business/epaper/2009/04/20/0420airspan.html
>
> -Matt
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Pat O'Connor wrote:
>
>   
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>> 
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>   
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
 read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
 (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
 they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
 mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
 sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
 un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
 assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
 purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
 it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
 post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.



 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
>>>
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>>>   
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios

[Ryan Ghering]

I have 4 IDU's and 2 ODU's on 23Ghz if your interested. MSG me offlist.

Ryan

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com
> links on them at a point in the nearby past.   I have the dishes that
> were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1
> models.  My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or
> OC3 Pcom radios.
>
> Does anyone know of a good source for those radios?   Please let me
> know.   Thanks!
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Gino Villarini]

Ouch

Tought times for airspan...? 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:19 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/business/epaper/2009/04/2
0/0420airspan.html

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Pat O'Connor wrote:

> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand 
>> experience reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved 
>> range was a lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 
>> thing. I think a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm 
>> trying to get through that and establish technical reasons why one or

>> the other is superior.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read 
>>> up on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
>>> (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
>>> wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of 
>>> whatever CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much 
>>> sense to me, in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are 
>>> supporting a highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) 
>>> then it makes a lot more sense.
>>>
>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an 
>>> un(der)served market, it seems that it would not make sense to 
>>> deploy standard
>>> 802.11
>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate 
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to 
>>> purchase CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from

>>> Best Buy (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access 
>>> it will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>
>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and 
>>> post sales engineering) etc etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -
>> ---
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
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[WISPA] Looking for P-COM DS3 radios

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Hello,

I just got access to a few towers that had working 18ghz and 23ghz P-Com 
links on them at a point in the nearby past.   I have the dishes that 
were used for these links as well, but the Pcom radios were 4 and 8 T1 
models.  My understanding is that I can re-use the dishes with DS3 or 
OC3 Pcom radios. 

Does anyone know of a good source for those radios?   Please let me 
know.   Thanks!

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Matt Liotta]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/business/epaper/2009/04/20/0420airspan.html

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Pat O'Connor wrote:

> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>> experience
>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>> think
>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>> through
>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>> superior.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
>>> read up
>>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
>>> (wireless
>>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
>>> they
>>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
>>> mobile
>>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
>>> sense.
>>>
>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
>>> un(der)served
>>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
>>> 802.11
>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
>>> purchase
>>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
>>> it
>>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>
>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
>>> post
>>> sales engineering)
>>> etc etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Wimax 802.16d v 802.16e

[Ben Wiechman]

16e output power depends on frequency band in use. For 3650 the same
limitations that were mentioned would apply: 1W per MHz. If unlicensed bands
were added to the profiles output power would be limited as it currently is,
typically to 4W EIRP. In 2.5GHz the limitation is related to received signal
level at the GSA boundry, must be -97 or less at 5' AGL, with a few other
restrictions to keep line of site received signal levels in check and a few
other rules governing limitations if there are no operators at your GSA
boundry using those channels. This gives you much more output power to work
with, however the CPE typically have much less output power available for
the uplink connection which serves to limit range and require receive
diversity and the MIMO techniques provided by WiMAX.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Chuck Bartosch
wrote:

>
> On Apr 21, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
> > Chuck,
> >
> > That is defiantely a plus now. But isn't that like a false advantage
> > in the
> > long run?
> > With only 20-30Mhz of spectrum, will it stay noise free for long?
>
> For some reason I thought it was 50 MHz of bandwidth, but in any case,
> the question is reasonable, and unanswerable. However, there is *some*
> protection for the band. Because you need a license (even if it's
> license light), you're not going to have Best Buy selling home phones,
> garage door openers, and indoor WAPs that get used outdoors messing up
> the spectrum. So I'd guess the situation won't be like what we see in
> 900, 2.4, and 5.8.
>
> >> in .16d you get to use 1 watt per MHz of channel size.
> >
> > How much watts per Mhz for 16e?
>
> I did a quick google for that but couldn't find it, even on the
> wimax.com web site. However, I know there's grumbling about the
> mobility play not being as useful as it could be due to the lack of
> power in .16e.
>
> > On a side note, anyone know why FCC decided to reward people using
> > larger
> > channels with more power?
>
> It's been discussed before on the lists (I'd be willing to bet Scriv
> knows why, assuming it's correct in the first place) but I don't know
> the answer, and remember my "iirc", meaning I've been told that by a
> manufacturer but I can't swear that it's an accurate statement.
>
> Chuck
>
> >
> > Wouldn't it have been more politically correct to reward those that
> > used
> > smaller more efficient channels with higher power, to give them a
> > reason to
> > be more efficient? I'm sure there is a technical reason, that I don't
> > understand, yet.
> >
> > Tom DeReggi
> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Chuck Bartosch" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 6:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax 802.16d v 802.16e
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Apr 21, 2009, at 6:39 PM, Michael Baird wrote:
> >>
> >>> Have you deployed it? From my initial research, it appears that the
> >>> bigger vendors Motorola/Alverion are supporting the 802.16e variety,
> >>> while the smaller vendors such as Tranzeo are supporting the 802.16d
> >>> variety. I'm aware of the advantages at the Mac Layer, but why would
> >>> 802.16d at 3.65 with a slightly higher EIRP at 7 mhz channel spacing
> >>> have better range then 802.11 variants at 2.4?
> >>
> >> Noise. You should get, iirc, a 20 db lower noise floor at 3.65. Also,
> >> (again, iirc), in .16d you get to use 1 watt per MHz of channel size.
> >> So with a 7 MHz channel you have 7 watts to work with. The noise
> >> floor
> >> alone is worth 100x the power, and the extra EIRP is just a bonus.
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The 802.16d unit specs I've looked at don't appear to scale much
> >>> higher
> >>> then the 2.4 units, but 802.16e appears to have the 2x2, 4x4 antenna
> >>> tech that it seems would make a big difference at range. What's the
> >>> magic that makes 802.16d work better then 802.11 variants as far as
> >>> coverage, with essentially the same power but at a higher frequency?
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Michael Baird
>  Here is the quick answer:
>  802.16d is a fixed only technology (no mobility) which performs
>  quite
>  well for delivering broadband to homes and businesses. Highly
>  available. Secure. More expensive, more scalable and somewhat
>  higher
>  latency than similar fixed technologies based on 802.11 and other
>  proprietary systems similar to 802.11. Most prominently used in
>  3.65
>  GHz in the US. Heavily used in 3.5 GHz in  international areas
>  where
>  no copper plant has been installed previously. Unique feature of
>  this
>  technology is the ability to provision service flows with
>  predictable
>  performance criteria. This enables SLA provisioning on wireless
>  broadband virtual circuits and many other advantages over any other
>  broadband platform (wireless or wired).
> 
>  802.16e is a fixed and mobile plat

Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Jeff Broadwick]

Oops, missed one...do you need rack-mount?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:33 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about 450 users
across a 20mb wireless think.


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

Hi Alan,

Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?

What are the link speeds?

How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?

What pricepoint are you looking for?

Jeff
ImageStream 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
with gear to handle this?

 





  

 

 



Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire
 
 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 


  alan.l...@aerowire.net 


tel: 
mobile: 

 
 3342759998
 
 336092 

 



 
 Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?

 






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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Ben Wiechman]

We've looked at several different vendors for WiMAX and have been running
Alvarion in 2.5GHz for almost 18 months now. Aperto seems to have a decent
RF platform, as does Redline and Alvarion. We had two main issues with
Aperto: ugly Tranzeo CPE and their EMS. Maybe some things have changed by
the EMS was required to configure each base station and MS as it entered the
network, however ran only on windows and didn't run as a service. So one
clown closing the window and your network was dead in the water. Redline
appears to have a solid product as well as does Alvarion.

As was stated earlier the biggest reason to look at WiMAX is for
differentiated services. If voice or a high quality data play is in your
business plan it makes sense. If you are suffering from interference issues,
and spectrum is becoming much more polluted everywhere, so 3650 does help in
that regard.

With access to 2.5GHz spectrum for us WiMAX was an option we considered
purely for the penetration. The bulk of our subscriber base was only
accessible using 900MHz access points, and we quickly outgrew the capacity
of the Canopy APs we have been using and also are suffering increasingly
from interference from a number of sources: RFID, baby monitors, a couple
lingering paging companies, GPS correction for farming, saturation due to
excessive numbers of Access POints to try to meet bandwidth demands, etc. We
also didn't feel that we would be able to offer services other than basic
broadband access across the Canopy platform. The 16e standard is valuable
for us due to the penetration provided by MIMO and beamforming that are
available within the standard. We could care less about the mobility (and
added overhead) but its hard to get one without the other.

If you've got clean spectrum and are only looking to deploy basic data
access WiMAX probably doesn't make sense. If you have access to licensed
spectrum, want to deploy differentiated services, or are looking at 3650
WiMAX may make sense. 16d will have less overhead and less cost: the
complexities of the mobile platform are not there, nor do you need
additional network components like an ASN-GW, and typically provisioning is
greatly simplified. The problem you run into on the 16e side is that every
vendor is only thinking about Clearwire and not considering the WISP and the
price point a WISP is able to justify.

Ben Wiechman
Wisper High Speed Internet

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Pat O'Connor  wrote:

> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
> > It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience
> > reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
> > lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think
> > a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through
> > that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
> >
> > Regards
> > Michael Baird
> >
> >> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up
> >> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
> >> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless
> >> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they
> >> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
> >> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
> >> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile
> >> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
> >>
> >> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served
> >> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11
> >> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
> >>
> >> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
> >> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase
> >> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
> >> (DSL or Cable modem).
> >>
> >> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
> >> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it
> >> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
> >>
> >> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
> >> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post
> >> sales engineering)
> >> etc etc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wan

Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 17:39 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote:
> Unless someone knows a secret script I would avoid using MT for this

Not a "secret script", but I have successfully done this with MT.  There
are many things that experience has taught me regarding this type of
setup.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 16:20 -0500, Alan Long wrote:
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?

Alan, 
I have done this type of thing with everything from Mikrotik to
ImageStream to Cisco (YUK). 

1. What type of circuits are the 2 wan connections?
2. How much overall bandwidth do you need to route (could be answered by
#1)
3. By "load balance", do you mean NAT or a BGP type load balance?

Depending on the answers to the above question I can provide you with a
better answer as to which equipment is best.  There are, of course, low
grade consumer devices that can do this, but I doubt that's what you
were looking for.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Josh Luthman]

Unless someone knows a secret script I would avoid using MT for this - I've
seen minimal success with multiple WANs on MT.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Alan Long  wrote:

> No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about 450 users
> across a 20mb wireless think.
>
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> Hi Alan,
>
> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
>
> What are the link speeds?
>
> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
>
> What pricepoint are you looking for?
>
> Jeff
> ImageStream
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
>
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any
> experience
> with gear to handle this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
>
> Aerowire
>
> <
> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
> rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us>
> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830
>
>
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net
>
>
> tel:
> mobile:
>
>
> <
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
> mail=along5...@yahoo.com>
> 3342759998
>
> <
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
> mail=along5...@yahoo.com>
> 336092
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <
> https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
> nvite=1<=en>
> Always have my latest info
>
>   Want a
> signature like this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 04/22/09
> 08:49:00
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Alan Long]

No bgp. Link will  be 20-30mb/s circuits. We currently run about 450 users
across a 20mb wireless think.


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 4:23 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

Hi Alan,

Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?

What are the link speeds?

How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?

What pricepoint are you looking for?

Jeff
ImageStream 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
with gear to handle this?

 





  

 

 



Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire
 
 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 


  alan.l...@aerowire.net 


tel: 
mobile: 

 
 3342759998
 
 336092 

 



 
 Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?

 






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2074 - Release Date: 04/22/09
08:49:00




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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Charles Wyble]

Excellent questions to ask.

I would recommend a mid range cisco router. Say the 1800 or 2800 series.

Also Vyata makes some nice kit.

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Hi Alan,
> 
> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
> 
> What are the link speeds?
> 
> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
> 
> What pricepoint are you looking for?
> 
> Jeff
> ImageStream 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
> 
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
> 
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 
> 
> 
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
> 
> 
> tel: 
> mobile: 
> 
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> 
>   Want a
> signature like this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Pat O'Connor]

Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?



Michael Baird wrote:
> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience 
> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a 
> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think 
> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through 
> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
>>
>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
>>
>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>
>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>
>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
>> sales engineering)
>> etc etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] fiber termination

[Scott Carullo]

Never heard of 5 strand but ok

10 ends maybe 20 each
1 tech an hour each end

Maybe 350 + or minus 50

That's without termination boxes - media converters etc

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:16 PM, chris cooper   
wrote:

> Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
> termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
> already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate  
> the
> ends.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris Cooper
>
>
>
>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Jeff Broadwick]

Hi Alan,

Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?

What are the link speeds?

How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?

What pricepoint are you looking for?

Jeff
ImageStream 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
with gear to handle this?

 





  

 

 



Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire
 
 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 


  alan.l...@aerowire.net 


tel: 
mobile: 

 
 3342759998
 
 336092 

 



 
 Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?

 





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[WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Alan Long]

I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
with gear to handle this?

 





  

 

 



Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire
 
 687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830 


  alan.l...@aerowire.net 


tel: 
mobile: 

 
 3342759998
 
 336092 

 



 
 Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?

 

<>


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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Matt Liotta]

On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Butch Evans wrote:
>
> WiMAX obviously has some things to offer.  It was written specifically
> as an outdoor wireless specification.  I think your summarization is a
> little short of the truth, though.  It would be nice, IMO, if you,  
> as an
> "operator who acutally [has] experience in the field with the gear"
> would at least answer the question instead of sitting on a high-horse.
>
How is it short specifically? Further, I thought the actual question  
was which WiMAX vendors were worth considering. And, I thought I  
answered that question.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Patrick Leary]

Press releases are not especially telling. Back at my old shop,
Alvarion, we issued very few PRs relative to the customers we had.
Aperto does even less. This is largely because we are a private company
and don't have the need to keep public shareholders feeling jazzed. As a
private company, we can afford to be slectively quiet instead of
announcing to all our competition what and where we are doing. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors


On Apr 22, 2009, at 3:17 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Matt,
>
> How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable?
>
I don't think anything from my first paragraph makes Aperto not viable.
I am not sure I even like the term viable. I wouldn't suggest Aperto or
recommend them as a WiMAX vendor. Of course, I don't have any direct
experience with Aperto's current product line. Therefore, I can't
compare and contrast their offerings to other WiMAX vendors that I do
have experience with. Anecdotical evidence suggests that Aperto is not
widely deployed. According to Aperto's press releases I only see one
company mentioned that has deployed their WiMAX gear in the US. I don't
know much about Zing to which the press release mentions.  
What I do know is that according to ULS they have only been approved to
deploy a single Aperto radio. Further, at WiMAX World last year it
seemed that Zing's CTO was employed by Aperto in sales. Compare this to
Redline and Alvarion, which have lots of approved radios in ULS and
multiple US customers including some large customers.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Matt Liotta]

On Apr 22, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Butch Evans wrote:

> Matt, I apologize for the earlier post regarding your response in this
> thread.  This post was certainly one that is helpful and addresses the
> questions that started the thread.
>
I obviously missed this email before my most recent post. However, if  
my response was short please let me know.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 15:03 -0400, Matt Liotta wrote:
> My personal recommendation would be for Redline. That is the vendor we  
> selected and have deployed. I would also recommend that you only  
> consider WiMAX for deployments where differentiated services are a  
> core part of your business plan. Without differentiated services I  
> fear WiMAX may never make sense.

Matt, I apologize for the earlier post regarding your response in this
thread.  This post was certainly one that is helpful and addresses the
questions that started the thread.


-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 14:01 -0400, Matt Liotta wrote:
> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
> and not particularly interesting.

WiMAX obviously has some things to offer.  It was written specifically
as an outdoor wireless specification.  I think your summarization is a
little short of the truth, though.  It would be nice, IMO, if you, as an
"operator who acutally [has] experience in the field with the gear"
would at least answer the question instead of sitting on a high-horse.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jeff Ehman]

We have quite a few live Aperto networks being deployed with residential and/or 
business services.  I am not going to speak for the deployment of Aperto gear 
over the entire U.S. but I can say they are out there.

-Jeff
CTI
"There is a Difference"


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors


On Apr 22, 2009, at 3:17 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Matt,
>
> How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable?
>
I don't think anything from my first paragraph makes Aperto not  
viable. I am not sure I even like the term viable. I wouldn't suggest  
Aperto or recommend them as a WiMAX vendor. Of course, I don't have  
any direct experience with Aperto's current product line. Therefore, I  
can't compare and contrast their offerings to other WiMAX vendors that  
I do have experience with. Anecdotical evidence suggests that Aperto  
is not widely deployed. According to Aperto's press releases I only  
see one company mentioned that has deployed their WiMAX gear in the  
US. I don't know much about Zing to which the press release mentions.  
What I do know is that according to ULS they have only been approved  
to deploy a single Aperto radio. Further, at WiMAX World last year it  
seemed that Zing's CTO was employed by Aperto in sales. Compare this  
to Redline and Alvarion, which have lots of approved radios in ULS and  
multiple US customers including some large customers.

-Matt



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[WISPA] fiber termination

[chris cooper]

Does anybody have an idea how much I should expect to pay per
termination to terminate 5 strands of multimode fiber?  The fiber is
already pulled into the racks, someone would just need to terminate the
ends.

 

Thanks

Chris Cooper

 




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Matt Liotta]

On Apr 22, 2009, at 3:17 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Matt,
>
> How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable?
>
I don't think anything from my first paragraph makes Aperto not  
viable. I am not sure I even like the term viable. I wouldn't suggest  
Aperto or recommend them as a WiMAX vendor. Of course, I don't have  
any direct experience with Aperto's current product line. Therefore, I  
can't compare and contrast their offerings to other WiMAX vendors that  
I do have experience with. Anecdotical evidence suggests that Aperto  
is not widely deployed. According to Aperto's press releases I only  
see one company mentioned that has deployed their WiMAX gear in the  
US. I don't know much about Zing to which the press release mentions.  
What I do know is that according to ULS they have only been approved  
to deploy a single Aperto radio. Further, at WiMAX World last year it  
seemed that Zing's CTO was employed by Aperto in sales. Compare this  
to Redline and Alvarion, which have lots of approved radios in ULS and  
multiple US customers including some large customers.

-Matt



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Re: [WISPA] Wimax 802.16d v 802.16e

[Patrick Leary]

This is about as concise and accurate as can be said...Nice summary
Scriv. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax 802.16d v 802.16e

Here is the quick answer:
802.16d is a fixed only technology (no mobility) which performs quite
well for delivering broadband to homes and businesses. Highly available.
Secure. More expensive, more scalable and somewhat higher latency than
similar fixed technologies based on 802.11 and other proprietary systems
similar to 802.11. Most prominently used in 3.65 GHz in the US. Heavily
used in 3.5 GHz in  international areas where no copper plant has been
installed previously. Unique feature of this technology is the ability
to provision service flows with predictable performance criteria. This
enables SLA provisioning on wireless broadband virtual circuits and many
other advantages over any other broadband platform (wireless or wired).

802.16e is a fixed and mobile platform. This is being used now in 2.5
GHz licensed band in the US and elsewhere. Very little has been done to
take full advantage of mobility in this band. More expensive to deploy
than 802.16d. Higher latency than 802.16d. This is a direct competitor
to LTE systems for cellular. If you do not hold an exclusive licensee in
2.5 GHz then this is not likely an option for you at this time.

For more input and more help take it to the memb...@wispa.org list for
paid members and we can dig into it deeper including step by step
instructions for getting your own 3.65 license and applying for
locations.
Scriv


On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Michael Baird  wrote:
> I'm researching these two technologies and Wimax in general, does 
> anyone have any firsthand experience with the two current different 
> types of Wimax, or references to the differences in the two different 
> types of technologies for broadband fixed rural deployments?
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
> --
> --
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[3-dB Networks]

Matt,

How does what you say in the first paragraph make Aperto not viable?

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:04 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
>
>WiMAX relationships tend to be self-limiting. The good vendors are
>expensive and as such their customers tend to be more capable. In
>capable; I mean the operator has done thorough evaluations including
>field trials of equipment from various vendors. Developed a business
>plan specifically for the equipment they have selected and the market
>for which they plan to deploy it. Shared this business plan with the
>same vendor and have gotten a positive response from all before they
>deploy the first customer.
>
>The above is different from how most WISPs approach WiMAX.
>Specifically, WISPs tend to already have existing customers, networks,
>etc and a working business model. These WISPs tend to be looking for
>new technology that solves specific problems for their existing
>customers or allows them to better execute their existing business
>plan. Generally, these WISPs find that WiMAX technology fails in that
>regard.
>
>If you are up for what I mentioned in the first paragraph then I would
>suggest taking a look at Redline and Alvarion. Both vendors will
>likely recommend deploying their gear in a fixed architecture using
>3650Mhz. You will want to understand how Redline's use of 802.16d with
>uplink subchannelization compares to Alvarion's use of 802.16e with
>diversity and how that affects your ability to deliver a specific
>amount of throughput to your target market.
>
>If you are more in the situation that I mentioned in the second
>paragraph then I would suggest taking a look at Aperto and Tranzeo.
>
>My personal recommendation would be for Redline. That is the vendor we
>selected and have deployed. I would also recommend that you only
>consider WiMAX for deployments where differentiated services are a
>core part of your business plan. Without differentiated services I
>fear WiMAX may never make sense.
>
>-Matt
>
>On Apr 22, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>
>> Yes. I know. Which is why I asked very specific questions. I don't
>> really care about the technology involved and am not looking for
>> information on it.
>>
>> I'm asking for vendor recommendations and WISP experiences from people
>> that have actually deployed Wimax in the 3650Mhz space. The area I'm
>> looking to serve wouldn't be cost effective to serve via Wifi.
>>
>>
>> Matt Liotta wrote:
>>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with
>>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the
>>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this
>>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it
>>> and
>>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else
>>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced
>>> and not particularly interesting.
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>>
 I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
 Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my
 primary
 goal.


 Michael Baird wrote:
> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand
> experience
> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range
> was a
> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I
> think
> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get
> through
> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is
> superior.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to
>> read up
>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets
>> (wireless
>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless
>> they
>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly
>> mobile
>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more
>> sense.
>>
>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an
>> un(der)served
>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard
>> 802.11
>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate
>> assessment?
>>
>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to
>> purchase
>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't b

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Matt Liotta]

WiMAX relationships tend to be self-limiting. The good vendors are  
expensive and as such their customers tend to be more capable. In  
capable; I mean the operator has done thorough evaluations including  
field trials of equipment from various vendors. Developed a business  
plan specifically for the equipment they have selected and the market  
for which they plan to deploy it. Shared this business plan with the  
same vendor and have gotten a positive response from all before they  
deploy the first customer.

The above is different from how most WISPs approach WiMAX.  
Specifically, WISPs tend to already have existing customers, networks,  
etc and a working business model. These WISPs tend to be looking for  
new technology that solves specific problems for their existing  
customers or allows them to better execute their existing business  
plan. Generally, these WISPs find that WiMAX technology fails in that  
regard.

If you are up for what I mentioned in the first paragraph then I would  
suggest taking a look at Redline and Alvarion. Both vendors will  
likely recommend deploying their gear in a fixed architecture using  
3650Mhz. You will want to understand how Redline's use of 802.16d with  
uplink subchannelization compares to Alvarion's use of 802.16e with  
diversity and how that affects your ability to deliver a specific  
amount of throughput to your target market.

If you are more in the situation that I mentioned in the second  
paragraph then I would suggest taking a look at Aperto and Tranzeo.

My personal recommendation would be for Redline. That is the vendor we  
selected and have deployed. I would also recommend that you only  
consider WiMAX for deployments where differentiated services are a  
core part of your business plan. Without differentiated services I  
fear WiMAX may never make sense.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:

> Yes. I know. Which is why I asked very specific questions. I don't
> really care about the technology involved and am not looking for
> information on it.
>
> I'm asking for vendor recommendations and WISP experiences from people
> that have actually deployed Wimax in the 3650Mhz space. The area I'm
> looking to serve wouldn't be cost effective to serve via Wifi.
>
>
> Matt Liotta wrote:
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it  
>> and
>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else
>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced
>> and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my
>>> primary
>>> goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Baird wrote:
 It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand
 experience
 reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range  
 was a
 lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I
 think
 a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get
 through
 that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is
 superior.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to
> read up
> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets
> (wireless
> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless
> they
> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly
> mobile
> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more
> sense.
>
> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an
> un(der)served
> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard
> 802.11
> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate
> assessment?
>
> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to
> purchase
> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best  
> Buy
> (DSL or Cable modem).
>
> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access
> it
> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>
> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
> What are peoples experiences with the sales proces

[WISPA] wifi-based communication devices

[Rogelio]

A resort I'm working with would like to cut down on walkie talkies and 
use wifi instead.

Does anyone have any recommendations?  I've seen Vocera, but I think 
that's a bit more than what they need.



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Christopher Hair]

We're also looking to deploy Wimax at a couple of our tower locations to
provide higher bandwidth to business customers and take a load off some of
our 900 APs. One vendor we are looking at is Vecima Networks. Anyone out
there using VistaMAX 3.65 GHz from Vecima. I would be very interested in
some real world experiences with this vendor. Pro and cons...

Thanks in Advance

Chris




What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and 
arm chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology 
and want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not be 
> valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly going to 
> deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set expectations 
> properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, and reading 
> marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly doesn't help clear 
> up the differences and advantages to the technology.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
>> and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>>> primary
>>> goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> 
 It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
 experience
 reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
 lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
 think
 a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
 through
 that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
 superior.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
   
> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
> read up
> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
> (wireless
> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
> they
> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
> mobile
> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
> sense.
>
> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
> un(der)served
> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
> 802.11
> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
> assessment?
>
> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
> purchase
> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
> (DSL or Cable modem).
>
> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
> it
> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>
> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
> post
> sales engineering)
> etc etc.
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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>>>

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Patrick Leary]

There will be as many opinions as there are vendors, but I contend that
802.16d is the better WiMAX standard for 3.65 GHz. There will be no
mobile in 3.65 GHz; the power limits available for mobile under the
rules simply are not workable at all. Going to .16e route does allow you
access to 4x MIMO, but that is too expensive for 3.65 since it intended
and priced for mobile -- $60k or more in CAPEX for one cell is way too
much for the WISP world. Consider that with 802.16d, you can buy a
complete 3 sector, almost 60 mbps cell with all pieces and parts for
under $20k (at least from us). You can use some 2x MIMO and that will
improve your range somewhat over no MIMO, but at what cost? Single order
diversity will still get you many miles radius of coverage per cell and
you'll save at least 1/2 the cost vs. the same capacity in 2X and much
less still compared to 4X.

802.16d also provides for lower latency (since it is not designed to
keep track of mobile clients it has less overhead) and larger channel
sizes. 

In the end, both standards are legit; they are simply intended to do
different things. The old rule of buying the right tool for the job is
the classic saying that comes to mind.


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience
reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think
a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through
that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.

Regards
Michael Baird
> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up

> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets 
> (wireless local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user 
> wireless they can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever 
> CPE. Wimax directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, 
> in most markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a 
> highly mobile workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a
lot more sense.
>
> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 
> 802.11 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate
assessment?
>
> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase

> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
> (DSL or Cable modem).
>
> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>
> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post

> sales engineering) etc etc.
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[3-dB Networks]

Aperto, Alvarion, and Redline seem to be the market leaders.  I would check
out each solution, performance and price though they will all be pretty
close (I have some experience with Aperto... but since I sell Aperto I'm not
going to blab on and on why I think its best since you're looking for other
operators experience).

With that said, I think you would be making a mistake using 3.65GHz for
residential subscriber access in rural areas.  Unlicensed spectrum would
probably be just fine for it (regardless of what vendor you choose...)

If throughput is your major concern... hold off for the Canopy 430 series at
the end of the year... that is going to give you 42Mbps in a 20MHz channel
in 5.8GHz.  If licensed spectrum is your primary concern... 3.65 will do it
but your really going to pay for it

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Charles Wyble
>Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:08 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors
>
>So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up
>on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless
>local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they
>can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile
>workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
>
>It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served
>market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11
>gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
>
>One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase
>CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>(DSL or Cable modem).
>
>I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it
>will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>
>So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post
>sales engineering)
>etc etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and 
arm chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology 
and want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not be 
> valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly going to 
> deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set expectations 
> properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, and reading 
> marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly doesn't help clear 
> up the differences and advantages to the technology.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
>> and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>>> primary
>>> goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> 
 It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
 experience
 reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
 lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
 think
 a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
 through
 that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
 superior.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
   
> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
> read up
> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
> (wireless
> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
> they
> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
> mobile
> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
> sense.
>
> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
> un(der)served
> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
> 802.11
> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
> assessment?
>
> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
> purchase
> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
> (DSL or Cable modem).
>
> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
> it
> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>
> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
> post
> sales engineering)
> etc etc.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> 
 
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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

   
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> ---

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

Yes. I know. Which is why I asked very specific questions. I don't 
really care about the technology involved and am not looking for 
information on it.

I'm asking for vendor recommendations and WISP experiences from people 
that have actually deployed Wimax in the 3650Mhz space. The area I'm 
looking to serve wouldn't be cost effective to serve via Wifi.


Matt Liotta wrote:
> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
> and not particularly interesting.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>> primary
>> goal.
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
 read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
 (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
 they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
 mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
 sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
 un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
 assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
 purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
 it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
 post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
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>>
>> 
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> 
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--

Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Michael Baird]

Matt,

I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not be 
valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly going to 
deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set expectations 
properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, and reading 
marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly doesn't help clear 
up the differences and advantages to the technology.

Regards
Michael Baird
> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
> and not particularly interesting.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>> primary
>> goal.
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>> 
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>   
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
 read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
 (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
 they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
 mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
 sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
 un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
 assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
 purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
 it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
 post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 
>>>
>>> 
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>>>   
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

Jason Hensley wrote:
> For me, personally in our area, 3650 is attractive because of the lack of
> noise.  We are saturated with 2.4 and 5GHz here, but if I was in an area
> with low noise levels in 2.4 and 5Ghz, then I would not see a point in
> spending the extra money to deploy 3650 gear.  I personally don't care that
> much about WiMax itself, as I tend to agree that a lot of it is marketing
> hype.  We have a city-wide (NOT Muni) 802.11 hotspot system that generates a
> fair amount of revenue for us with roaming users connecting with their
> laptops.  3650 won't do that because I doubt we will be seeing laptops with
> built-in 3650 cards anytime soon (though I could be wrong).

This is why I specifically mentioned a fixed base use case, and hanging 
an 802.11 access point off the CPE. :) Also Intel has a Wimax card now.

What is the cost difference between the 802.11 gear and Wimax gear?




> 
> You can easily pull 10-20meg through 5.8 gear in low noise, good LOS
> environments.  


Southern California doesn't have a lot of those environments. :)

We're doing 10meg in an area that is saturated with 5.8. I'm
> looking at 3650 SOLELY because of our noise floor.  If it wasn't for the
> noise, I'd keep plugging along hanging Deliberant 2.4 and 5Ghz CPE's all
> over the place.  

Interesting. I'll investigate that vendor.


> 
> Ideally, what I'm moving toward is putting 3650 gear in place for my large
> backhauls (tower to tower) and for my high-end customers that require higher
> availability and are willing to pay a premium price (i.e. businesses that
> want to go all VoIP over a 20meg Internet connection),


Right. Wireless local loop. Charge a few hundred per month and provide 
dedicated band width.

  while maintaining my
> current networks with their 5Ghz and 2.4 AP locations, although much of the
> 5Ghz backhaul would be replaced with 3650 gear. 

Makes sense. What vendors are you considering? What vendors are giving 
you horrors?

> 
> Anyway, this is just me.  I'm sure a lot of folks have different views and
> different opinions though, and maybe there is a purpose and need for Wimax
> itself, but for me, I have yet to see what the big deal is.  
>   
> 



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Matt Liotta]

Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
and not particularly interesting.

-Matt

On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:

> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
> primary
> goal.
>
>
> Michael Baird wrote:
>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>> experience
>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>> think
>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>> through
>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>> superior.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
>>> read up
>>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
>>> (wireless
>>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
>>> they
>>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
>>> mobile
>>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
>>> sense.
>>>
>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
>>> un(der)served
>>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
>>> 802.11
>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
>>> purchase
>>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>
>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
>>> it
>>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>
>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
>>> post
>>> sales engineering)
>>> etc etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Jason Hensley]

For me, personally in our area, 3650 is attractive because of the lack of
noise.  We are saturated with 2.4 and 5GHz here, but if I was in an area
with low noise levels in 2.4 and 5Ghz, then I would not see a point in
spending the extra money to deploy 3650 gear.  I personally don't care that
much about WiMax itself, as I tend to agree that a lot of it is marketing
hype.  We have a city-wide (NOT Muni) 802.11 hotspot system that generates a
fair amount of revenue for us with roaming users connecting with their
laptops.  3650 won't do that because I doubt we will be seeing laptops with
built-in 3650 cards anytime soon (though I could be wrong).

You can easily pull 10-20meg through 5.8 gear in low noise, good LOS
environments.  We're doing 10meg in an area that is saturated with 5.8. I'm
looking at 3650 SOLELY because of our noise floor.  If it wasn't for the
noise, I'd keep plugging along hanging Deliberant 2.4 and 5Ghz CPE's all
over the place.  

Ideally, what I'm moving toward is putting 3650 gear in place for my large
backhauls (tower to tower) and for my high-end customers that require higher
availability and are willing to pay a premium price (i.e. businesses that
want to go all VoIP over a 20meg Internet connection), while maintaining my
current networks with their 5Ghz and 2.4 AP locations, although much of the
5Ghz backhaul would be replaced with 3650 gear. 

Anyway, this is just me.  I'm sure a lot of folks have different views and
different opinions though, and maybe there is a purpose and need for Wimax
itself, but for me, I have yet to see what the big deal is.  
  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Wyble
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
(DSL or Cable modem).

I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
sales engineering)
etc etc.





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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience. 
Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my primary 
goal.


Michael Baird wrote:
> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience 
> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a 
> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think 
> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through 
> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
>>
>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
>>
>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>
>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>
>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
>> sales engineering)
>> etc etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
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Re: [WISPA] Antenna Sizeon 18 ghz

[Brad Belton]

Seems to me I remember reading something in a trade magazine about a 1.5'
antenna being approved for 18GHz, but why bother?  Just go with the 2' and
enjoy the additional fade margin.  

If the distance of your path doesn't warrant 2' antennas at 18GHz then you
should be looking at 23GHz, 38GHz or possibly even 60GHz for really short
paths.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 12:09 PM
To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group
Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Sizeon 18 ghz

is 2' the smallest we can go?
 

Gino A. Villarini 
g...@aeronetpr.com 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 

 




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Michael Baird]

It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience 
reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a 
lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think 
a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through 
that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.

Regards
Michael Baird
> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
>
> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
>
> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
> (DSL or Cable modem).
>
> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>
> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
> sales engineering)
> etc etc.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   




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[WISPA] Antenna Sizeon 18 ghz

[Gino Villarini]

is 2' the smallest we can go?
 

Gino A. Villarini 
g...@aeronetpr.com 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 

 



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[WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
(DSL or Cable modem).

I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
sales engineering)
etc etc.




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[WISPA] Non Compete Agreement

[Gino Villarini]

Anyone has one for share?
 

Gino A. Villarini 
g...@aeronetpr.com 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 

 



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Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik

[Dennis Burgess - LTI]

Yep.  We just covered this in our wireless theory RouterOS course last 
night!  :)

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
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in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
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received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> I know first hand experience that if you stack 3 cards running 2.4ghz on a
> RB333 that they will interferer with each other and you will have many
> unhappy clients.
>  
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:01 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik
>
> Basically from own experience and testing. 
>
> Two cards mounted side by side at a slight distance even if they are XR5
> cards suffers no to minimal problems between them and it goes for all cards
> I seen. 
>
> Two cards mount closely stacked on each other with just millimeter distance
> do cause problems at times. Worst cases are the high power cards like for
> example the XR5. In some instances the frequency transmission been majorly
> separated yet the problem is there. It is almost like the preamped, premixed
> signal is bleeding between the cards causing interference. But this is just
> stipulations. 
> In testing by putting an alu foil sheet (put inside plastic sheet
> protectors) between the cards seemed to cure the worst problems and at least
> stop the constant association/disassociation problems. Never had a chance to
> do check for RF errors and compare throughput data between this setup and
> one where the radio cards where put in separate boxes. 
>
> The issue seems far less common with the lower powered 5GHz cards (ie 100mw
> or less). But I have not done a lot of testing there but also not heard any
> issues complaints there where I heard plenty of people having issues with
> trying to stick 3 or 4 5GHz high power radio cards in a single MT board in a
> single metal/diecast outdoor enclosure. We try to talk people out of
> building the 3 or 4 radio AP's with running the same frequency on all the
> cards. We have however not seen this issue (or at least not caught the
> obviousness) when doing multiple frequencies. Say put a 2.4GHz high power
> card on top of a high power 5GHz card in a RB600 on one side of the board
> and another 2.4ghz on top of a 5ghz on the second mpci stack in the RB600. 
> But on the RB333 and actually even the RB600 we seen issues doing 2 or 3
> 5GHz cards. Due to the nature of 2.4ghz (higher noise floor levels, used for
> CPE connections etc) we have not been able to say ahh your problem there is
> self interference between your cards in the unit. But since most people use
> 5GHz for ptp backhaul with low noise floor we been able to pin point that
> hey this link shouldn't have any problems and if we turn of one of the other
> radio cards the trouble link has no troubles any longer your self
> interfering on yourself inside your own box. 
>
> A UFL connector can pickup signal from another UFL connector and create a
> working solid link of the cards are no more then a few inches apart. I
> tested this at numerous occasions. So RF bleeds from another radio could be
> picked up by a UFL connector when the source is strong enough and just one
> or two inches away. Since most cards have diversity built in to them the
> secondary port by default will always be listening so this will of course
> create a problem. 
>
> With a MMCX connector I been able to pickup signal from an AP easily 20ft
> away with a card with no antenna or pigtail plugged in to it (AP had
> antenna). So looking at this using a radio with UFL as the main connector
> and a MMCX as secondary could very well create even a bigger issue since the
> MMCX is even better at picking up radiated signal then the UFL. 
>
> Many people prefer the MMCX connectorized cards because they can use a
> larger pigtail that has less cable loss.. But from what I understand the
> lower cable loss on the pigtail is

Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I know first hand experience that if you stack 3 cards running 2.4ghz on a
RB333 that they will interferer with each other and you will have many
unhappy clients.
 
Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik

Basically from own experience and testing. 

Two cards mounted side by side at a slight distance even if they are XR5
cards suffers no to minimal problems between them and it goes for all cards
I seen. 

Two cards mount closely stacked on each other with just millimeter distance
do cause problems at times. Worst cases are the high power cards like for
example the XR5. In some instances the frequency transmission been majorly
separated yet the problem is there. It is almost like the preamped, premixed
signal is bleeding between the cards causing interference. But this is just
stipulations. 
In testing by putting an alu foil sheet (put inside plastic sheet
protectors) between the cards seemed to cure the worst problems and at least
stop the constant association/disassociation problems. Never had a chance to
do check for RF errors and compare throughput data between this setup and
one where the radio cards where put in separate boxes. 

The issue seems far less common with the lower powered 5GHz cards (ie 100mw
or less). But I have not done a lot of testing there but also not heard any
issues complaints there where I heard plenty of people having issues with
trying to stick 3 or 4 5GHz high power radio cards in a single MT board in a
single metal/diecast outdoor enclosure. We try to talk people out of
building the 3 or 4 radio AP's with running the same frequency on all the
cards. We have however not seen this issue (or at least not caught the
obviousness) when doing multiple frequencies. Say put a 2.4GHz high power
card on top of a high power 5GHz card in a RB600 on one side of the board
and another 2.4ghz on top of a 5ghz on the second mpci stack in the RB600. 
But on the RB333 and actually even the RB600 we seen issues doing 2 or 3
5GHz cards. Due to the nature of 2.4ghz (higher noise floor levels, used for
CPE connections etc) we have not been able to say ahh your problem there is
self interference between your cards in the unit. But since most people use
5GHz for ptp backhaul with low noise floor we been able to pin point that
hey this link shouldn't have any problems and if we turn of one of the other
radio cards the trouble link has no troubles any longer your self
interfering on yourself inside your own box. 

A UFL connector can pickup signal from another UFL connector and create a
working solid link of the cards are no more then a few inches apart. I
tested this at numerous occasions. So RF bleeds from another radio could be
picked up by a UFL connector when the source is strong enough and just one
or two inches away. Since most cards have diversity built in to them the
secondary port by default will always be listening so this will of course
create a problem. 

With a MMCX connector I been able to pickup signal from an AP easily 20ft
away with a card with no antenna or pigtail plugged in to it (AP had
antenna). So looking at this using a radio with UFL as the main connector
and a MMCX as secondary could very well create even a bigger issue since the
MMCX is even better at picking up radiated signal then the UFL. 

Many people prefer the MMCX connectorized cards because they can use a
larger pigtail that has less cable loss.. But from what I understand the
lower cable loss on the pigtail is negated by the fact that the MMCX
connector on the radio has more connector loss then a UFL so a MMCX vs ufl
is plus minus zero in cable loss/connector loss. 


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] using multiple 5.3 cards in a Mikrotik

I have read numerous discussions on problems regarding self interference 
between two mPCI cards inserted in the same SBC, on same Freqs.  Some 
reporting need for 40Mhz of center channel seperation.

These are the factors...
U.FL vs MMCX connectors
One vs two Antenna Ports on a single mpci card  (for example will second 
unused antenna port on card without pigtail hear noise. Does the second port

need to be terminated?)
Proximity of mPCI slots to each other. (ADI/Lucaya side by side versus MT 
433 Stacked)
High power embedded amped  vs low power cards.
Software thresholds vs not (min and max receive threshold and adapative 
noise immunity)
Bleed over at card versus bleed over at antenna. (polarity won't help at 
card's port)
Interference from Antenna port RF vs internal electronics generated RF noise

(used to see this in PC

Re: [WISPA] Splash Page

[Martes Wigglesworth]

Greetings.

I don't think that you need a specific "program." to find a solution for
this issue.  I thought that you meant some sort of splash screen that
comes up on the CPE, or on the internal web server for the device in
question.

If you really just want  it to do so automatically, you can simple use a
nice page such as listed by the previous post, and have them put onto a
list of suspended traffic, so that they get redirected to this page
weather they are a new customer, or simply a customer who has not paid. 

It seems more than doable, and not in need of a special program.  

I am sure that you have already discovered this, however, I was not sure
so I just decided to post anyhow.

This is not unlike what you would do if you have and internet cafe' that
shows a screen for login, or payment if the time limit has expired.

Unless you are unfamiliar with webpage production, you could just make a
single page, and save yourself the trouble of trying to find a "good"
example.

The one listed below is very good, though.  And if you wanted to include
insurance, then you could have a second page, to indicate such service
requirements, and payment options...

Very viable indeed.

On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 22:08 -0400, J. Vogel wrote:
> I have a splash page such as what you are describing (
> http://vogent.net:88/ ) but no CPE insurance program.
> 
> John
> 
> Ray & Jean wrote:
> > Does anyone have a page they use when you cut off a customer for 
> > non-payment and let them know that their internet has been suspended. 
> > Letting them know what to do to activate it again, like making a payment. 
> >
> > Also, I want to have customers pay an insurance on their equipment, I seen 
> > one on this list about a year ago and saved the link to use later but it no 
> > longer works, I believe it was Mac Dearman. 
> >
> > It was a great program and I would like to use it, if I can.
> >
> > Thanks so much for your help!
> >
> > Jean Hill
> > Surfmore.Net
> >
> >
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> >  
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >   
> 

-- 
Martes Wigglesworth 
M. G. Wigglesworth Holdings, LLC




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Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question

[Dennis Burgess - LTI]

very possible. 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Josh Luthman wrote:
> In other words the functionality is there but the paper that says it
> can does not exist?
>
> On 4/22/09, Dennis Burgess - LTI  wrote:
>   
>> They do have all of the radar patterns in it.  However, I don't think
>> they have went down the path to get certified.
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> 
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> 
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only
>> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
>> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
>> action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than
>> the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material
>> from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Carullo wrote:
>> 
>>> In an attempt to hear what MT had to say on the matter we have been
>>> discussing I asked them to clarify the statement that their system could /
>>>
>>> would ever be certified for DFS2...
>>>
>>> I didn't get as much info as I would have like to of received but this is
>>> what support had to say fyi...
>>>
>>> ===
>>> If you use radar-detect mode it will always look for the radar patters,
>>> not
>>> only on startup but also during the operation of AP mode, if it will find
>>> a
>>> radar activity it will mark it as used by radar and search for a new
>>> freqeuncy
>>> and look if it is used by radar or not.
>>>
>>> If you use radar-detect mode and you enable the
>>> wireless,debug logs you will see that the AP found the radar in that
>>> channel
>>> and started to search for the new free channel.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Uldis
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
>
>   



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Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question

[Josh Luthman]

In other words the functionality is there but the paper that says it
can does not exist?

On 4/22/09, Dennis Burgess - LTI  wrote:
> They do have all of the radar patterns in it.  However, I don't think
> they have went down the path to get certified.
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> 
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> 
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only
> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than
> the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material
> from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott Carullo wrote:
>> In an attempt to hear what MT had to say on the matter we have been
>> discussing I asked them to clarify the statement that their system could /
>>
>> would ever be certified for DFS2...
>>
>> I didn't get as much info as I would have like to of received but this is
>> what support had to say fyi...
>>
>> ===
>> If you use radar-detect mode it will always look for the radar patters,
>> not
>> only on startup but also during the operation of AP mode, if it will find
>> a
>> radar activity it will mark it as used by radar and search for a new
>> freqeuncy
>> and look if it is used by radar or not.
>>
>> If you use radar-detect mode and you enable the
>> wireless,debug logs you will see that the AP found the radar in that
>> channel
>> and started to search for the new free channel.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Uldis
>> ===
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer



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Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question

[Dennis Burgess - LTI]

They do have all of the radar patterns in it.  However, I don't think 
they have went down the path to get certified.

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Scott Carullo wrote:
> In an attempt to hear what MT had to say on the matter we have been 
> discussing I asked them to clarify the statement that their system could / 
> would ever be certified for DFS2...
>
> I didn't get as much info as I would have like to of received but this is 
> what support had to say fyi...
>
> ===
> If you use radar-detect mode it will always look for the radar patters, 
> not
> only on startup but also during the operation of AP mode, if it will find 
> a
> radar activity it will mark it as used by radar and search for a new 
> freqeuncy
> and look if it is used by radar or not.
>
> If you use radar-detect mode and you enable the
> wireless,debug logs you will see that the AP found the radar in that 
> channel
> and started to search for the new free channel.
>
> Regards,
> Uldis
> ===
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   



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Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question

[Scott Carullo]

In an attempt to hear what MT had to say on the matter we have been 
discussing I asked them to clarify the statement that their system could / 
would ever be certified for DFS2...

I didn't get as much info as I would have like to of received but this is 
what support had to say fyi...

===
If you use radar-detect mode it will always look for the radar patters, 
not
only on startup but also during the operation of AP mode, if it will find 
a
radar activity it will mark it as used by radar and search for a new 
freqeuncy
and look if it is used by radar or not.

If you use radar-detect mode and you enable the
wireless,debug logs you will see that the AP found the radar in that 
channel
and started to search for the new free channel.

Regards,
Uldis
===

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102






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