on't see me arguing
against that. But at least admit that it's a hack.
We are definitely off topic from the original thread, too.
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The discus
tually use equal height columns, I'll let
> > you all know.
>
> Bells and whistles without any neccessity
>
> What I have described is how sites were done for years.
>
> As for necessity, some clients just happen to like it this way.
>
> Do you try a
lumn 2, 250px of background color shows
> below the image in column 3, 500px of background color shows
Please send us all an example of a site where this was necessary.
As usual designers want "bells and whistles" without any necessity.
When I find a reason to actually use
7;s page, you would have to serve up
another layout to handheld devices, or just swallow the platform
dependency.
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ers get the right one. I'm pretty sure the
technique works great across all browsers, tested on IE 6, FF, and
Opera.
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Jay said. The site is great but the markup is quirky. Please explain.
Well, almost everything Jay said. My site doesn't have these quirks,
so you probably can't rip it apart.
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Which one falls back to the browser
defaults? That one is CSS driven.
This is what I was saying all along... we are talking about markup
that is driven by CSS, so let's not compare two different forms of
markup using the same CSS, but rather, the same form of markup using
CSS or someth
#x27;t seen this should.
As for more simply, just getting a container to contain floats:
http://www.complexspiral.com/publications/containing-floats/
It's not hard, and I can assure you that you don't need that one table
container.
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table
based. That's hacking, not coding.
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much all CSS based, not just some.. and I'd
> like to know why they are right.
>
> Anyone?
*raises hand* me! me!
Because when you turn CSS off, there's no styling, other than the
browser defaults.The page looks like it would if you typed it up as a
text document..
scrolling.
> But you're right, neither is more usable than the other.
>
Well, CSS support on PDA's is slow in coming.
This discussion has gotten to the point of preference rather than
anything else, good points brought up and all.
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id this, I googled the word driven for a definition and found that
> it also meant "mobs goaded by blind hatred"
>
> I don't know about anyone else but I often use angry mobs to control my web
> pages - though it is hard to get them to exhibit blind hate.
My CSS exhibits bl
is promoted all over the place.
>
That's probably why the W3C promotes using XHTML so much... it
enforces good code. When it's served as html, you might notice that it
behaves this way too, even if you accidentally insert */html* before
*body*... which I've done. That&#x
Yep. Few people know this. try it out.
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for some hi
t know)
use "em" or "cite" when you want, respectively, emphasis or citation.
and for everything else, there's CSS ;)
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The discussion l
ects, typing the extra markup for a list isn't too much to
ask. Besides, it's for the end user... who should be the most
important consideration.
this is all IMO, I guess, and I'm interested in hearing what others have to say.
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creen reader, you
wouldn't think they were semantic. Just because they have a long
history doesn't make them machine-readable.
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sted, and these mistakes end up all over the web. But
I've answered your question, so I shouldn't rant. Hope that helps.
As for your page, if no one else helps, I'll help you with it tomorrow
when I have more time. Back to studying...
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ument flow,
and places it at 0,0 (top left corner). top places it 160px from the
top. left places it 176px from the left.
Of course, using position absolute is not the best way to do it, and
neither is pixel line-heights or some of the other things, but we'll
start with this for now. Try actually
Their CSS file is massive and probably covers all
the internal pages, which makes it worth the extra cost of having an
external file.
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not, sponsored links, search listings etc. all need be take in
> consideration.
How? What does that have to do with it?
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e money in this "standards" thing after all.
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On 12/10/05, matt andrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/12/05, Christian Montoya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Matt's example has more text, which explains the difference... and
> > imagine if the CSS and JS were in an external file... how often do
> >
, when you have only really found a
partial solution and not the best solution possible.
If no one else does it I'll do that Google page Monday when my exams are over.
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S were in an external file... how often do
people reuse Google throughout the day? If all those users cached the
files, we're talking about drastic reductions in Google's bandwidth.
It wouldn't be hard at all to lighten the page... but we knew it was a
good idea even before the example.
On 12/9/05, Collin Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Surely either you jest, didn't read the whole article or need to update your
> feeds. ;)
>
Sorry, I should have made it more clear I was kidding. They do remind
me of that article though :)
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On 12/9/05, Srecko Micic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, hmmm I try it with java disabled in IE, and it still works.
That's what I thought.
Of course, if your users don't have DirectX, the filter won't work,
but what's the likelihood of that?
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lready thrown
accessibility out the door. It's not often you see Ajax applications
with good, accessible fallbacks.
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is itself a
> call via Javascript.
>
> (fairly sure that's the case)
>
I'm not sure you are right. I thought DX was a call to DirectX, not
Javascript, so the filter relies on the user having DirectX installed.
If JS is off it should still work. Anyone else concur?
--
--
HTML to be
really easy and pointless so they don't bother or care to learn how to
use HTML correctly. If I told them how complex HTML/XHTML/CSS really
is they would think I was crazy.
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*
ipt
- they don't care
Maybe the WASP should start talking to them?
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standards
compliance??? I think it's a shame.
Have you ever seen the output of MSN Search? An improvement, at least.
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n everyone on
this list will think they are serving xhtml.
I'll get it started right:
DID NOT work in every single browser. Version 0.1 to 1000. IE/Mac/Linux/Sun.
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hing to target xhtml browsers? Like, specifically
Opera, Safari, Konquerer, etc? How exactly would one do content
negotation with PHP?
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pressing lawsuits.
This could be a double edged sword, though. What if the client messes
up a website you deliver and the user sues both you and the client?
Would you like to be responsible for someone else messing up your
code?
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Christian Montoya
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rather than just sending visitors to some cryptic
validation page.
Even then, though, I wonder if clients or users read that kind of
stuff. I'm having a hard time putting myself in their shoes on this
one.
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p option may look good
now, but what happens when you want to change something? In CSS it
takes 5 seconds. In a tag soup website, it's not so easy.
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*
is where the real differences
show. Then he will have to have a doctype, to make sure that browsers
(mostly) follow the rules.
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type being sent out
in the headers, and that is done server side.
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t, so you are saying that I could serve application/xhtml+xml to
modern browsers without the xml declaration? What about declaring the
stylesheets in xml declarations at the top of the document? I thought
that was required.
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for us all. Even if someone on this list does
say something you don't like, don't let it discourage you, because
there are still a couple thousand other people that can be useful in
answering your questions. And yes, there are women here.
As far as editors go, I still use Notepad and Wordpa
On 12/2/05, Christian Montoya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12/2/05, Rimantas Liubertas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 2005/12/2, Lachlan Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
> > > > It is pretty easy to check, all we need
some coding :)
Is this a trick?
at the bottom of the page prevents it from handling xml. Any sort
of xml. Now how am I going to test my XHTML pages
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**
The
rs these design trends pretty well. Sure, some of them
have become more popular because CSS made them possible to implement
easily, but the abundance of these details are "fadtastic."
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--
Christian Montoya
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difference. I never change my default
setting or profile or anything so that must be where your problem
lies.
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dards-compliant.
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; img
alt="This is fallback text" / > < /p > for now seems like a good
semantic solution.
I think the way to look at this is that semantics wins. If you have an
alt tag, you want the semantics of a paragraph. If the alt tag is
empty, you want a weightless div. One way or another
is that if the image is not loaded, and the
alt tag is displayed, it is plain text and belongs in a paragraph. If
you have an image with an empty alt tag, then it might make more sense
to enclose it in a div.
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I got rid of 1.0.7
entirely) there was an upgrade dialog that came up and automated
upgrading my extensions. I didn't have to do anything to my web dev
extension.
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**
this ok?
>
this is because 65% width + 15px margin is greater than 65%. So the
margin-left on the #links has to be greater than 65% + 15px, and 67%
seems to be enough.
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e, seeing that summer yellow and the
beach and bikini makes me want to buy a ticket. Nice job.
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heet based on the server time and not
my computer's time... that would also solve the problem... I mean,
it's snowing here... is the page supposed to be green? Or is it
because the weather is nice over there?
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Lord Vader's Former Handle, Anakin
link, visited, focus, hover, active
Always in that order!
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See
buttons at the top are
clicked, which is what I think judges and users will expect. Besides,
the w3c discourages mixing pixel and font sizes.
I know it's a fine detail, but isn't that what we love on this list?
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I could have sworn I got all these e-mails last night, what's going on?!?
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See
ctually, the list items are fine when I resize them. I could take a
snapshot of it to show you. The headers, however, are not. You could
make the headers more robust by making them work the same way the list
items do, and then you won't need pixels for the text.
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christianmon
e page does not fit within my browser. And I'm using one of those
very popular widescreen laptops that is very short vertically. So it
is not a matter of preference.
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Christian Montoya
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ust
keep in mind that the number of users that are going to use text-size
large on the page is about 1 in a thousand, and they probably won't
care. So I say just leave it like it is.
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Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com .
bah, pixel sizes. But what I wanted to address is that you lack a good
font-family here. You should at least try:
"Trebuchet MS", trebuchet, sans-serif;
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**
if this is an FF problem or something that can be fixed
in the css, it might be a rounding error. Just wanted to mention it in
case those judges are really picky.
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Christian Montoya
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***
-layout hater.
However, that's a story for another day. Fight the good fight.
I definitely think the class should have covered more CSS, and more
accessibility. Otherwise it was a good class. Next semester I'll be
taking level 2, which is PHP & MySQL. Should be more fun.
--
--
s height), I'd say this layout isn't going to
work. You can take the feedback as constructive and revisit the
design, or you can ignore it, but if you choose to ignore it then this
isn't the list for you.
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christianmo
is along to clients as mantra, I thought seeking the advice of the
> participants of the list advantageous.
>
> Respectfully,
> Chris
Agreed. Dropdown navigation doesn't tell you as much about each
section as does a complete section page. It also doesn't make
n
gger than
that, however my viewport size is 1257 x 536.
1257 x 536 <-- notice the number less than 600
If you would explain that to your client maybe they would realize the
mistake being made.
once again, screen resolution != viewport size.
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Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... r
ust
keep in mind that the number of users that are going to use text-size
large on the page is about 1 in a thousand, and they probably won't
care. So I say just leave it like it is.
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--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com .
s height), I'd say this layout isn't going to
work. You can take the feedback as constructive and revisit the
design, or you can ignore it, but if you choose to ignore it then this
isn't the list for you.
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Christian Montoya
christianmo
e page does not fit within my browser. And I'm using one of those
very popular widescreen laptops that is very short vertically. So it
is not a matter of preference.
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Christian Montoya
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. Besides the only thing the overflow:auto
does for me is give me two scrollbars to use on the site rather than
one.
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east it's possible. Only wish more
professors taught like mine.
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s concern, there's definitely a need. Sharing
information for these children on how to stay safe on the internet,
how to find information, how to use accessibility tools, etc. Kids are
really smart nowadays, if we give them the right information, they'll
really be
>
> It would be great if we (WSG listers) could come together to work on a
> project like this - we all have such great contacts, it would be a very
> powerful thing to do. I've been wanting to do something like this for a long
> time, if you are interested too, please contact me.
>
> lisa
>
Wait,
> Sorry if this has been commented on in this forum:
>
> http://chronicle.com/free/2005/11/2005111602t.htm
>
> 10 Million 7.5in small screens, pretty sure that will change the face of
> the browser market.
>
>
Thanks for the link.
I see 12 in laptops at school everyday, students who don't want to
> Done it. Georg? margin-right:-6px; did not work on the right side of
> the container but 'margin-LEFT: -6px' did! Why do negative margins
> shift things around in a better way than positive ones?
Because negative margins "pull," while positive margins "push." And
everyone knows it's easier to pu
> > We are using relative links in Javascript to open the attachments.
> >
> > Could please anyone shed light on what might be causing this.
>
> Well, you've answered your own question! Use absolute paths in your
> links. (and... Lotus Notes?! Ouch...)
>
so does this mean that you can't build the
99% of users have no idea what view-source is. If they try to select
any text on the page, and they can't, they won't be happy.
Is the section positioned? Does it have any divs overlapping?
--
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On 11/16/05, Adam Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm having BIG problems trying to get the content of this site to be
> held within the image 'containers' I've used. Help me, please?! I'm
> beginning to lose it.
>
> Adam
Your content is still 100% wide. When you nudge it to the right, you
nee
>
> > A div is a block level element by default. If it has no styling of its
> > own, its width should be 100% of its parent's inner width.
>
> If true, display:inline (plus positioning styles - on container or what
> have you) would not yield the desired results?
Right, display:inline or float w
> I have a client who is insisting on having a newscroller on his front page.
>
> While there are many options, Java, Flash, DHTML, open to me to fulfil the
> scroller request I just wondered what anyone felt was the most standards
> compatible solution?
>
> Many thanks
Java has the same problems
This brings up another question I've been wondering about... how do
you make it obvious that you have a link to make the layout more
visible? For example, I've implemented a high-contrast link on my
website (http://www.rdpdesign.com) but if someone needs a high
contrast layout, would they really be
> It only gets weirder the more I look at it. ;)
>
Could we have a link to the contest or something?
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Se
> Yes it seems but:
>
> "Navigation lists are intended to be used to define collections of
> selectable items for presentation in a "navigation" menu. Note that a
> navigation list always starts with a label element that defines the
> label for the list."
>
> The spec tells us that this list is (on
> Hey Patrick,
>
> Yes I understand your doubts but the starting point was that Chris
> wanted a Hx element semantically connected with a list (with valid
> xhtml code).
> I think my solution is okay but I'd never use it ;)
> I use the plain DL that has DT elements useable for "pseudo-headings".
>
> I do not know is this a solution for our problem but it seems it does
> the semantic and valid job - i made it a bit complex but its now a
> closely real-world example :)
>
> This is a Header
> for my stuff list
>
> my stuff No.1
> my stuff No.2
>
>
> Regards,
> Janos
Wait, is this valid? I th
> I understand your desire to be completely explicit in terms of assigning
> a header to a list, I'd say that (X)HTML is just not that explicit a
> language in that respect, and that *source order* is used to infer a lot
> of this type of assignment. Think, for instance, about a normal page
> struc
I think those both do not solve the problem. How do I give a
definition list a header?
Dictionary
word
def
word
def
I would like to do:
Dictionary
...
...
Any solution that involves nested lists is really bad IMO. That makes
things too complex.
--
--
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rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpd
> Great idea, Christian, but you've been scooped: LH was part of the
> 1993 HTML3 specification in the UL, OL, and DL definitions, such as:
> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/deflists.html
>
> LH appears to have disappeared from the specs between HTML 3.0 and
> 3.2, but I wasn't able to discover whe
Hello all. I was thinking about a semantic way to do the following with a list:
= header
- item 1
- item 2
- item 3
Currently I do this:
header
...
This doesn't make it clear that the header refers to the list, though.
What I would like to do is have a list header, much like tables have
tabl
> Has anyone used this before:
> http://realmacsoftware.com/rapidweaver/index.php
>
> I stumbled across it today (was compulsively checking source of some
> site and found a comment that said "produced by RapidWeaver"... and
> the markup was relatively clean, so I googled it), seems... not too
> ba
> I spoke with programmers today.
> They were more receptive than i'd expected.
> They agreed give standards a go by
> easing into css based design one step at a time.
Tell those programmers we are ready for their questions. :-)
--
--
C Montoya
rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.r
There's nothing wrong with:
My site title
...navigation...
My section name
Latest Articles
Article 1 Title
paragraph
Article 2 Title
paragraph
Another option is:
My site title
...navigation...
My section name
Latest Articles
> hello all,
> Ive started designing sites for this company that specilizes in .net
> databases driven/xml feed type sites. I just give them a graphics file and
> they slice it up. Anyway they asked me yesterday if i could do this
> particular job with web accessability in mind. But heres the thin
>
> It would be simple enough to do And table, td, th, thead, tbody, tfoot {border:none;}
>
> And then add them back as needed.
>
> What do you think? Is it a good idea? Should I turn around and run away from
> adding some presentational markup in my pages?
I think it's find to have border="1" in
>
> > Hope I'm making sense, here and I know it's a slippery slope, but hey ...
> > That's why they pay us the big bucks, right?
> >
> > .. Right?
> >
> > Anyone?
> >
> >
> You make money at this???
>
> What a concept!!
>
> ;-)
>
That's true... I want in on these big bucks :-)
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--
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rdp
> > I'm also not sure how browsers are supposed to handle a non-repeating
> > animated gif as on-hover background, so I don't know what's "correct"
> > behavior here.
>
> I'm not sure what the "correct" way is either, but regardless, I don't
> code to firefox or any other browser first. I code to
> How 'Graphic Designer' can think in standard wise while
> working with Developers or the Markup guys.
Stop thinking in the "grid" layout of table based design. CSS lets you
put things wherever you want, with a lot less work too. You also don't
have to slice so much, since graphics become backgro
On 10/25/05, Martin Smales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You can have presentational markup (or atleast, markup that is
> semantically not correct) even with a strict doctype, so > > it's
> actually all about how you use the tool.
>
> Ok, I am thinking in terms of putting an XHTML 1.0 Strict page
Ok thanks all!
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Ok, so my final questions is... is there a fallback for expression() ?
Something in IE for expression that functions like for
On 10/21/05, Laura Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/20/05, Christian Montoya <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > It looks like a data table to me. If you didn't use a table, you would
> > probably use lists, which might be more confusing.
>
> I
On 10/21/05, Laura Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/20/05, Christian Montoya <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > It looks like a data table to me. If you didn't use a table, you would
> > probably use lists, which might be more confusing.
>
> I
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