Re: [WSG] To target or not
tomorrow see you!! bye solange 2007/7/12, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window--even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
I m Sorry!you must be patient,I m ocupation ,I m learngin nowGod bless you!! Solange 2007/7/13, Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For my last project I used this: http://www.electricprism.com/aeron/slideshow/ You can simplify it down to fading transitions with random image display. It will display a placeholder image of your choosing if JS is not available. I have yet to find an equivalent JS slideshow. Uses mootools. I am not the biggest fan of the mootools documentation and/or forum support, but it is pretty lieghtweight js framework. The Slideshow itself is pretty good from a JS perspective... I mean, I do think it could be a little more decoupled from the CSS/HTML, but overall I think it is well written. Good luck! Cheers, Micky -- Wishlists: http://snipurl.com/1gqpj Switch: http://browsehappy.com/ BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8 My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - ADMIN - very close to closing thread!
i m sorry,lll be right back 2007/7/12, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OK, this is not pointed at any one person... Lets get this thread back on topic and into more helpful, positive dialog - NOW! Otherwise the thread will be closed and you will all have to go to your rooms without supper! Russ (with wooden spoon!) If people are as severly misguided as you believe, and your opinion is this controversial, you owe it to yourself (let alone us) to elaborate on why this is the case. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
From: Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED] For my last project I used this: http://www.electricprism.com/aeron/slideshow/ You can simplify it down to fading transitions with random image display. It will display a placeholder image of your choosing if JS is not available. I have yet to find an equivalent JS slideshow. Uses mootools. I am not the biggest fan of the mootools documentation and/or forum support, but it is pretty lieghtweight js framework. The Slideshow itself is pretty good from a JS perspective... I mean, I do think it could be a little more decoupled from the CSS/HTML, but overall I think it is well written. The animations are cool but if one optimizes images for the web then there's not much to work with and you're back to a cross-fade. All the animations are jittery in Firefox, which is normal, and there does not seem to be a fallback if script is disabled to at least be able to link to all of the images. I'm obviously a bit prejudiced, but I kind of think this one is more usable: http://www.projectseven.com/products/galleries/ssm/ssm_03.htm It's not free, though... but it is totally automated for Adobe Studio users. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Im sorry ocupation,lll be right back ,you must be patient! solange 2007/7/12, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - ADMIN - very close to closing thread!
tomorrow see you !!bye solange 2007/7/13, Maria Solange Siebra Borges [EMAIL PROTECTED] : i m sorry,lll be right back 2007/7/12, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OK, this is not pointed at any one person... Lets get this thread back on topic and into more helpful, positive dialog - NOW! Otherwise the thread will be closed and you will all have to go to your rooms without supper! Russ (with wooden spoon!) If people are as severly misguided as you believe, and your opinion is this controversial, you owe it to yourself (let alone us) to elaborate on why this is the case. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - THREAD CLOSED
tomorrow see later !!bye solange 2007/7/12, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED]: THIS THREAD IS CLOSED This is the second reply to a closed thread. No more! The list guidelines state: The list administrators (and Core members) reserve the right to unsubscribe any member from the mail list(s)... Reasons include: - Repeatedly replying to threads that have been closed Thanks Russ on 13/7/07 12:51 AM, Bruce at wrote: ...As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge There really is no end to it, daily I am updating my skills and seem always to reach out and make that latest script I just mastered do even more. The only problem I have with this as a one man shop is that I spend more time learning than working on clients sites. Alas, I have not yet made my million...one more skill needed...ten to ignore - have no time...so I learn priorities...foundations. Web Standards. Content Management. Then the programming skills. After four or five years doing this full time and five part time, being from a construction background I speak of foundations a lot. Standards are that foundation. Bruce P bkdesign *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites
tomorrow see you!!bye solange 2007/7/12, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ...As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge There really is no end to it, daily I am updating my skills and seem always to reach out and make that latest script I just mastered do even more. The only problem I have with this as a one man shop is that I spend more time learning than working on clients sites. Alas, I have not yet made my million...one more skill needed...ten to ignore - have no time...so I learn priorities...foundations. Web Standards. Content Management. Then the programming skills. After four or five years doing this full time and five part time, being from a construction background I speak of foundations a lot. Standards are that foundation. Bruce P bkdesign - Original Message - From: Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites If you are interested in being and all-rounder, don't let anyone scare you away from it. I'm an all-rounder (designer/developer I would call it), a one-man company. On my sites I do all the planning, information layout, designing and coding - everything. (X)HTML, CSS, javascript, PHP, MySQL on every site and before that ASP and MSSQL (until 2006). The design process starts with pencil and paper. After bot 3-4 sheets of scribbles and squares zooming to and fro all over the paper, I have a worthy layout done. Then a wireframe is made in photoshop. Then the design is made. Then it gets chopped and pages marked up. Then the database gets built. Then the PHP is coded to stitch the front and back together. If time is left over some javascript is sprinkled in to taste. I hope that each site combines all the elements a little more smoothly than last time creating a continued progression as I go. As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Breton Slivka wrote: On 7/12/07, *Hassan Schroeder* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: , you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all about purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far between. Far too far. That is an error in the Ads you've seen, and in the Advertiser's understanding of Graphic Design being just as flawed as yours. This is not an error in my definition of Graphic Design. I will not dispute that many self proclaimed Graphic Designers hold the same flawed view. This is a serious problem, which may be too big for me to singlehandedly handle, but a problem nonethless. To give an analogy, one could easily advertise for an accountant who is proficient in the use of Quicken and TurboTax. However this would be a flawed advertisement, as proficiency in those programs does not a qualified accountant make. Nor does proficiency in photoshop make a qualified Graphic Designer, nor would proficiency in Dreamweaver make a qualified Web Developer, nor Proficiency in MySQL a qualified Database Designer. Indeed, a common view of Surgeons may be that all they do is cut people up and shift things around, discounting any knowledge they may have of human anatomy, or medical science. Now imagine if there were a bunch of surgeons running around getting hired who had the same flawed perspective. It would be very difficult for a proper surgeon to gain any sense of credibility wouldn't it? That problem is real in both Web Development, and Graphic Design. Given that it's something both fields have in common, I would expect us to be able to team up to fight such perceptions, but sadly this is not the case for practitioners in either profession, as they each suffer from the misperceptions of the other. It makes me sad. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - dont close it yet admin!
tomorrow see you later!!bye!solange 2007/7/12, Bruce Kyle [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Graphic Design vs Web Design - the keyword here is design, both processes use the principles of design to solve a problem. We all use repetition, balance, emphasis to create a product suitable to our clients/overlords/users. let's not get hung up on the media. There's no doubt in my mind a part of any good website are the graphical/textual elements, but a successful solution must include a whole host of other disciplines (useability, accessibility etc). From my experience a typical web project involves taking an existing organisation into the wierd wide web. They already have a fancy logo, colour scheme, marketing strategy. The hard work is integrating it into a relevant web structure so everyone from grandma with her win98/IE4 to young johnny on his playstation 3 browser can use it to find whatever they wanted to find when they googled the org's keywords. Bruce (broken a few wooden spoons in my time!) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Tomorrow see you!! bye solange 2007/7/13, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED] For my last project I used this: http://www.electricprism.com/aeron/slideshow/ You can simplify it down to fading transitions with random image display. It will display a placeholder image of your choosing if JS is not available. I have yet to find an equivalent JS slideshow. Uses mootools. I am not the biggest fan of the mootools documentation and/or forum support, but it is pretty lieghtweight js framework. The Slideshow itself is pretty good from a JS perspective... I mean, I do think it could be a little more decoupled from the CSS/HTML, but overall I think it is well written. The animations are cool but if one optimizes images for the web then there's not much to work with and you're back to a cross-fade. All the animations are jittery in Firefox, which is normal, and there does not seem to be a fallback if script is disabled to at least be able to link to all of the images. I'm obviously a bit prejudiced, but I kind of think this one is more usable: http://www.projectseven.com/products/galleries/ssm/ssm_03.htm It's not free, though... but it is totally automated for Adobe Studio users. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Al Sparber wrote: The animations are cool but if one optimizes images for the web then there's not much to work with and you're back to a cross-fade. All the animations are jittery in Firefox, which is normal, and there does not seem to be a fallback if script is disabled to at least be able to link to all of the images. I'm obviously a bit prejudiced, but I kind of think this one is more usable: Yeah, I did not mean to make it sound like it was the best thing out there, but it really worked well for my last project (I did not have time to write something from scratch.) I personally do not like all the funky animations included... Simple fades is all I will ever probably need. I like simple... Fortunately, so did my client. I guess it depends on your project requirements... A simple image placeholder is all I usually need if JS is turned off or whatever. But I do like the thought of linking to a gallery of images. Also, FF/XP is pretty smooth for me. But then again, I dislike pretty much all but the fading transitions. http://www.projectseven.com/products/galleries/ssm/ssm_03.htm That looks nice. Very good work. :) I will have to add this to my delicious bookmarks. Only thing I could see as being a problem for me is all the extras. In fact, the script I pointed to in my last post has this problem too: Too much extras. Coming back to what I originally said above, I like simple. I am sure you allow for users to turn off all the buttons and counters and gallery menus and such, but then that makes the code that much more bloated. I would love to see a JS fading image slideshow rotator that was highly decoupled from the CSS/HTML (unobtrusive), and that was modular... For example, instead of just setting a variable to no or false one would be able to remove the code/method from the script if not needed (vs. having the non-used functions sitting around collecting dust.) Modular JS for those of us that feel comfortable tweaking that type of thing. It's not free, though... but it is totally automated for Adobe Studio users. Looks nice though. I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple banner vs an actual gallery script. But for a gallery application, this definitely looks worth the $$. Have a great day/night. Cheers, Micky -- Wishlists: http://snipurl.com/1gqpj Switch: http://browsehappy.com/ BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8 My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ADMIN - Maria has left the building, and won't be returning.
ADMIN Please do not reply to messages posted by Maria Solange Siebra Borges. This users has been taken out of the system. As always, if you havge comments about the mail list or the running of the mail list, then email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do not send these comments to the list. Thanks for your patience. Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] To target or not
Id say dont use pop-ups, nobody likes them w! :P On 7/13/07, Maria Solange Siebra Borges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tomorrow see you!! bye solange 2007/7/12, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window--even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I am out of the office until Monday 23 July 2007. For Urgent matters please contact Bruce Kilgour or if it is web related, please contact David Bacon. Cheers Allyson Luders Onshore Energy and Minerals Division Geoscience Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites
I think that everybody has missed the original point of Marvin's post. Marvin was looking for help in completing his visual design units in his web design course, as Marvin is visually impaired and is trying to build websites for sighted people using a screen reader. And you thought is was hard the other way round. I assume Marvin must pass the visual design units to complete the course. Do not pass the course and no qualification, no chance of further education and less chance of a job in the field he wants. Marvin is after advice, help, tips, tricks and techniques for visual design, such as colour theory, image size etc. as well as suggestions on how to storyboards and flowcharts. I don't have a lot of links at hand but I will have a look over the weekend for you Marvin. I hope a few others can go through there del.icio.us accounts and similar and find a few links for Marvin before next semester. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] To target or not
I would argue the case that it may be sensible to open a new window for PDF's. There was sufficient evidence for a UK government department I have worked extensively with, to include this as a standard. The rationale behind this is simply that once presented with a PDF the user has the experience of being in a different application, and may be inclined to beleive that the web site had been left behind / shut down. This is not a case of a floating pop up, but of course is a new tab opened in the browser, indicating that the page launching the app is still present and available for use In such circumstances It is best to use transitional doc type than to get too anally retentive about having to have a strict doc type. The user doesn't care a hoot about doctype, though they are very interested in the experience and usability of a site -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk Linking in with others: http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton On 13/07/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *James Jeffery *Sent:* Friday, July 13, 2007 8:32 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] To target or not Id say dont use pop-ups, nobody likes them w! :P I agree - in this day and age it makes far more sense to show and hide a div (or whatever) on your page than to throw a whole new page unless you have reams of info to display. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] To target or not
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:32 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] To target or not Id say dont use pop-ups, nobody likes them w! :P I agree - in this day and age it makes far more sense to show and hide a div (or whatever) on your page than to throw a whole new page unless you have reams of info to display. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] To target or not
I wrote for a solution few monts ago, that takes interests in some peoples in Italy. I've developed a javascript solution that grant accessibility and leave the user to choose to open all external links (or the ones marked as external) both in a new window and in the same window. Actually the page i've wrote is only in italian language (I'm preparing an English version). In the case, the url to gather this script is: http://wili.diegolamonica.info/ I don't like to make spam and sorry if you consider this message as it. If someone is interested to have a notify when a translation of it is available please send me a private msg so i don't make another spam about that. Bye Diego On 13/07/07, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Id say dont use pop-ups, nobody likes them w! :P On 7/13/07, Maria Solange Siebra Borges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tomorrow see you!! bye solange 2007/7/12, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window--even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Diego La Monica Web: programmazione, standards, accessibilità e 2.0 Brainbench certified for RDBMS Concepts (transcript ID # 6653550) W3C HTML WG IWA/HWG Member Responsabile liste IWA Italy ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Web Skill Profiles WG Member ( http://skillprofiles.eu ) phone +390571464992 - mobile +393337235382 MSN Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: diego.la.monica - ICQ #: 249-460-264 Web: http://diegolamonica.info *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] To target or not
I'm with you also. However, as a tech writer I don't have the luxury of calling the shots on which method is employed by a dev project team. I decided to be ready for both external and internal calls from the app. Kind regards, Frank From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 13 July, 2007 10:30 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] To target or not From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 8:32 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] To target or not Id say dont use pop-ups, nobody likes them w! :P I agree - in this day and age it makes far more sense to show and hide a div (or whatever) on your page than to throw a whole new page unless you have reams of info to display. Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
From: Micky Hulse [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guess I thought the original poster wanted something more for a simple banner vs an actual gallery script. You're right. I didn't go back far enough in the thread. Sorry. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 09.07.2007 um 23:22 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Maria Solange Siebra Borges [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:12:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Microformats was [ Is this a good use of dl ] I m sorry !!I m learngin,I new thanks God bless you!! 2007/7/8, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Microformats are about creating standards, standards for software vendors and web developers. In the future, with the use of powerful web technologies search engines and such will be able to aggrigate results from class name, software will be able to collect information from them aswell. Its about moving forward, and microformats is very new still, there will be teething problems, but i can see a bright future for them and they do have some powerful uses. I mean, look at the tails export addon for firefox, that allows to extract contact info, events/calander info and some other powerful features, all because of Microformats. I would much rather be able to save contact info with the click of a mouse rather then copy and paste and save it all manually. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to
your message afterwards.
Am 10.07.2007 um 03:13 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org:
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WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST
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Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem.
We are working on it.
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From: Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:03:46 -0400
Subject: Shadow validation
I don't understand what the W3C validator is objecting to here:
Value Error : text-shadow Property text-shadow doesn't exist :
#7f7f7f 2px 2px 2px
Offending CSS:
h2, h3 {
margin: 24px 0 0;
font-size: 1.4em;
text-shadow: #7f7f7f 2px 2px 2px;
color: #25447d;
line-height: 1.4em;
}
Please excuse me if I'm incurably dense,
Dean
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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
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Am 10.07.2007 um 03:23 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org:
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From: Cameron Singe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:16:06 +1000
Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation
Hey dean,
I am probaly wrong, but i think text-shadow is a CSS3 spec which
might not
be picked up by the validation
On 7/10/07, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't understand what the W3C validator is objecting to here:
Value Error : text-shadow Property text-shadow doesn't exist :
#7f7f7f 2px 2px 2px
Offending CSS:
h2, h3 {
margin: 24px 0 0;
font-size: 1.4em;
text-shadow: #7f7f7f 2px 2px 2px;
color: #25447d;
line-height: 1.4em;
}
Please excuse me if I'm incurably dense,
Dean
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From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:20:29 +1000
Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation
Text-shadow's part of the CSS3 spec and not CSS 2.1 isn't it? So if
you're
validating against CSS 2.1, you'll get an error.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:03:46 +1000, Dean Matthews
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't understand what the W3C validator is objecting to here:
Value Error : text-shadow Property text-shadow doesn't exist :
#7f7f7f
2px 2px 2px
Offending CSS:
h2, h3 {
margin: 24px 0 0;
font-size: 1.4em;
text-shadow: #7f7f7f 2px 2px 2px;
color: #25447d;
line-height: 1.4em;
}
Please excuse me if I'm incurably dense,
Dean
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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 03:43 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:36:01 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation On Jul 9, 2007, at 9:16 PM, Cameron Singe wrote: am probaly wrong, but i think text-shadow is a CSS3 spec which might not be picked up by the validation Nope, your right. I thought I was dense but now I think the W3C is just behind the curve ;-) Dean ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 09.07.2007 um 23:32 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Neville Clarkson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:34:31 +1000 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I am currently out of the office. If you need urgent assistance please cont act Stephen Mahoney on 02 9215 9032 or 0403 090 022 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] u Regards Neville Clarkson Senior Business Analy st - Online Information The Australia Council for the Arts -- - Please consider our environment before printing this email. This email, including any attachments, may contain private or confidenti al information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this email in error, please contact the sender i mmediately and delete all copies of this email. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this email o r disclose its contents to any other party. Any infor mation provided by a Council, Board, Committee or staff member shou ld be understood as information only. Applicants and others should not alter their circumstances, nor act upon expectations arising solely from such information. Please be aware that emails larger tha n 4MB and emails containing executable or encrypted files, will be rej ected by our network security system. You must contact the intended re cipient in advance if you need to send such emails. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
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Am 12.07.2007 um 22:09 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org:
Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests are not working properly.
Please bear with us. We are working on it with the software vendor.
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:07:28 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [WSG] Javascript image rotator
Hi Paul
Hmm, I have seen a few examples of people using Jscript only to do
it.
I don't need to modify the image, just reload a new one every five
seconds or so. I can find scripts to do this, just need the fade
bit I
guess.
Apparently, I can't use Flash for this.
I recently used jquery [1] for this, and a plug in called innerfade
[2],
at http://reviews.somuchworld.com
Innerfade iterates through a list of items. For browsers with
javascript
off, quick fix for me was to set all but the first item's
visibility to
hidden. A nicer fix might be to pull the additional items through via
ajax.
Once jquery and innerfade were in place, this is the additional
javascrip
t
I wrote:
/**
* Attach to #random town, and fade in towns
*/
$(document).ready(function () {
$('#random town .town').css('display', 'block');
$('#random town').innerfade({ speed: 4000, timeout: 6000, type:
'sequence', containerheight: 'auto' });
});
[1] http://jquery
[2] http://medienfreunde.com/lab/innerfade/
PS. The somuchworld site is a work in progress, albeit live.
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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 13.07.2007 um 04:40 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests are not working properly. Please bear with us. We are working on it with the software vendor. There is nothing that Peter or Russ can do about it except shut off digests altogether until it is rectified, which we are not going to do. If you want to take yourself off the digest, please do so and we'll let you know when it is fixed via the announce list. * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:35:46 +0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] To target or not personally i say keep it in the same window if your interested I wrote an article about it recently after reading a few other articles about things similar http://germworks.net/blog/2007/07/02/usability-and-accessibility- the-foreign-legion-of-web-design/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/07/2007 10:21:29 am Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window-- even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security requirements for inbound transmission. ** ** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 ** *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 16:58 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:51:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites ...As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge There really is no end to it, daily I am updating my skills and seem always to reach out and make that latest script I just mastered do even more. The only problem I have with this as a one man shop is that I spend more time learning than working on clients sites. Alas, I have not yet made my million...one more skill needed...ten to ignore - have no time...so I learn priorities...foundations. Web Standards. Content Management. Then the programming skills. After four or five years doing this full time and five part time, being from a construction background I speak of foundations a lot. Standards are that foundation. Bruce P bkdesign - Original Message - From: Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites If you are interested in being and all-rounder, don't let anyone scare you away from it. I'm an all-rounder (designer/developer I would call it), a one-man company. On my sites I do all the planning, information layout, designing and coding - everything. (X)HTML, CSS, javascript, PHP, MySQL on every site and before that ASP and MSSQL (until 2006). The design process starts with pencil and paper. After bot 3-4 sheets of scribbles and squares zooming to and fro all over the paper, I have a worthy layout done. Then a wireframe is made in photoshop. Then the design is made. Then it gets chopped and pages marked up. Then the database gets built. Then the PHP is coded to stitch the front and back together. If time is left over some javascript is sprinkled in to taste. I hope that each site combines all the elements a little more smoothly than last time creating a continued progression as I go. As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Breton Slivka wrote: On 7/12/07, *Hassan Schroeder* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: , you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all about purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far between. Far too far. That is an error in the Ads you've seen, and in the Advertiser's understanding of Graphic Design being just as flawed as yours. This is not an error in my definition of Graphic Design. I will not dispute that many self proclaimed Graphic Designers hold the same flawed view. This is a serious problem, which may be too big for me to singlehandedly handle, but a problem nonethless. To give an analogy, one could easily advertise for an accountant who is proficient in the use of Quicken and TurboTax. However this would be a flawed advertisement, as proficiency in those programs does not a qualified accountant make. Nor does proficiency in photoshop make a qualified Graphic Designer, nor would proficiency in Dreamweaver make a qualified Web Developer, nor Proficiency in MySQL a qualified Database Designer. Indeed, a common view of Surgeons may be that all they do is cut people up and shift things around, discounting any knowledge they may have of human anatomy, or medical science. Now imagine if there were a bunch of surgeons running around getting hired who had the same flawed perspective. It would be very difficult for a proper surgeon to gain any sense of credibility wouldn't it? That problem is real in both Web Development, and Graphic Design. Given that it's something both fields have in common, I would expect us to be able to team up to fight such perceptions, but sadly this is not the case for practitioners in either profession, as they each suffer from the misperceptions of the other. It makes me sad.
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 15:48 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:43:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:44 PM, Hassan Schroeder wrote: ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. In my experience, also, the position of Web Designer usually means specifically Graphic Design for the Web, IA is usually a separate discipline/department. But as Breton eloquently pointed out good graphic design is *much* more than making purty, and obviously design for the web is not the same as print design. The software skills required for web design don't even come close to defining a good designer, but in today's world no designer, good or indifferent, can practice without those skills. As to the other question addressed in this thread regarding skill sets taught in school: even if one intends to specialize, to work effectively in a team it is *very* important to have a good working knowledge of the scope of the work done by all team members. Andrew http://www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 14:07 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:02:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator swifr offers cute image modifying effects (including rotation) using Flash, and degrades gracefully. http://www.swfir.com/ However it can't do the other things you're asking for by itself. The problem is really the image rotating - everything else could be done with lightweight javascript but actually modifying an image is a bit beyond its reach and as such that puts you in the Flash object department. Regards, Barney Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 15:18 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:08:21 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites This issue really pushes my buttons, I will admit. I had my rant (my initial post), and I naively believed that would be pretty much the end of it. I forgot that I push buttons when I'm ranting. I've even provided an out in my last post inviting people to continue this conversation off list. That didn't quite work out, so here we are still on list. The essential problem at this point is that since I opened with a rant, I've set myself up a hostile situation. Hostile situations are not ideal for explaining difficult and subtle concepts. I suggest, since this is a hostile context, (which I again admit is mostly my fault), that most people who would respond to me at this point would not do so because they are interested in what I have to say. There is a high risk, regardless of whatever I post, of simply continuing a back and fourth disagreement which would be inappropriate for this list. I offer two alternatives. 1. If you are honestly interested in learning about graphic design, read the books I suggested, as they are a more credible and coherent a source than I am. Far be it from me to put you off of correct information simply because it's coming from me, random internet nutter #8. 2. If you really just want to continue the conversation specifically with me, Please do so off list. Me being a bit irritated at someone's offhand comment may have been borderline on topic. Me making pronouncements about what I think graphic design is about is definitely not on topic, and I will not be lured into making a further ass out of myself. -Breton From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:10:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Javascript image rotator Hey thanks for your help Ed, Got that working now, all looks good. Does work with Javascript turned off, but only if you put the original image in a NOSCRIPT tag. Certainly works well, so thanks for all your help. I found the original here BTW: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex14/fadeinslideshow.htm Thanks again Paul On 12/07/07, Web Man Walking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I did one for a client of mine. Feel free to take a look... http://thepaperchain.co.uk/ Not sure where I found the code but it is excellent and without JS on, it shows an image. !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Chris Ed successfully ran the 2007 Edinburgh Marathon for the Meningitis Research Foundation We are still looking for sponsors! Our Progress: http://wmwmarathon.com/ Sponsor Us: http://justgiving.com/wmwmarathon !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Regards Ed Henderson Web Man Walking - web design usability experts t: 0131 669 8800 m: 0781 253 6964 f: 0797 062 1532 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: web-man-walking.com a: 48 Eastfield, Edinburgh, EH15 2PN skype: webmanwalking msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New technology, old fashioned service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: 12 July 2007 12:45 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Javascript image rotator Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** From: Bruce Kyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:14:57 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - dont close it yet admin! Graphic
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 13:37 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:28:09 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites - ADMIN - very close to closing thread! OK, this is not pointed at any one person... Lets get this thread back on topic and into more helpful, positive dialog - NOW! Otherwise the thread will be closed and you will all have to go to your rooms without supper! Russ (with wooden spoon!) If people are as severly misguided as you believe, and your opinion is this controversial, you owe it to yourself (let alone us) to elaborate on why this is the case. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 12:17 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:13:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Yes, I was replying the definition of graphic design that you gave. I quote: *Most* of this Graphic Designer's time should be spent with pencils and paper, and not in Photoshop or Illustrator. A great deal of time evaluating the problem at hand, and iteratively simplifying the solution. This is graphic design. On Thu, July 12, 2007 10:25 am, Breton Slivka wrote: On 7/12/07, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not designing the dynamic structure, usability and accessibility (using Web standards) essential for good Website design which will hold across different platforms/browsers in which the user has control \ Why on earth not? What definition of graphic design do you have which excludes those things? Certainly not one that I've given. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 13.07.2007 um 04:30 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests are not working properly. Please bear with us. We are working on it with the software vendor. There is nothing that Peter or Russ can do about it except shut off digests altogether until it is rectified, which we are not going to do. If you want to take yourself off the digest, please do so and we'll let you know when it is fixed via the announce list. * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:21:29 -0400 Subject: To target or not Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window-- even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 13.07.2007 um 15:54 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests are not working properly. For the time being, I have set the digests to a manual trigger. We'll see how that goes while SmarterTools work out the issue. * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:10:33 +0200 Subject: RE: [WSG] To target or not Hi Matthew, Being the tech writer for a software dev division, when calling context-sensitive help from a web form is needed I use unobtrusive DOM/Javascript to either let a user open a popup within the app window (traditional method) or call the help from within (embedded) each form field. I have a new Fast Track tutorial in final draft demonstrating how to accomplish both methods titled Calling Context-Sensitive Help with Unobtrusive DOM/JavaScript. These methods are not limited to web forms and can be applied in other ways if needed. If it would help you, please contact me off-list and I can email you (or anyone else interested) a small zipped package of the tutorial project folder containing the markup, content, .css, images and DOM/JavaScript. Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer website: http://frank.helpware.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Member: Society for Technical Communications (S.T.C.) Guild of Accessible Web Designers (G.A.W.D.S.) Web Standards Group (W.S.G.) Supergroup Trading Ltd. Sandhurst, Gauteng, South Africa website: http://www.supergroup.co.za Work:  +27 011 523 4931 Home:  +27 011 455 5287 Fax:   +27 011 455 3112 Mobile: +27 074 109 1908 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Ohlman Sent: Friday, 13 July, 2007 4:21 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] To target or not Hello List, I was curious what others opinions were on this issue... Since W3C doesn't allow the target attribute in XHTML Strict, which do you think is better? Having the window opening up with JavaScript or just keeping the page in the same window like W3C wants. I assume the reason for not allowing the target attribute is for accessibility--because screen readers can not control pop-ups. Therefore it seems logical to me to keep it in the same window-- even if it is an external site, etc. What does everyone think? Matthew -- Matthew Ohlman www.ohlman.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** From: ByteDreams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:31:10 -0400 Subject: RE: [WSG] Javascript image rotator On this jQuery examples page is a something similar to what you want, using the jQuery library and unordered list with links. I guess if you enclose the script within a condition like if javascript=true that would take care of folks that disable javascript. I'm not a javascript programmer, however, but you might be able to figure something out. http://medienfreunde.com/lab/innerfade/ ByteDreams -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:45 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Javascript image rotator Hi all, I thought this would be an easy one to Google, but yet I find myself here again asking your professional opinions :) Trying to find a script for random image rotation on a website. Meaning the images would rotate every 5 seconds or so automatically, without the need for a refresh. The only requirements would be: - A fade effect between the rotating images. - A fall back so users without javascript will still get a single image. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** From: ByteDreams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:35:56 -0400 Subject: RE: [WSG] Javascript
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 08:57 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:48:57 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Yes, but that's still graphic design of the appearance of Websites, NOT Website Design. It's not designing the dynamic structure, usability and accessibility (using Web standards) essential for good Website design which will hold across different platforms/browsers in which the user has control (not the graphic designer). And no, the visual design should not be the first thing to consider in meeting a client's requirements. Too many bad Websites have been produced in which graphic designers who have pretended to be Website designers and placed the visual design first and insist that this is paramount. On Thu, July 12, 2007 12:48 am, Breton Slivka wrote: Argghh no! the ignorance! Just stop going about thinking you know what you're talking about when it comes to Graphic Design! Graphic Design isn't Make it Purdy, Graphic design isn't Learn how to use photoshop. It's exactly that perception that leads to awful website after awful website. Certainly, aesthetic beauty is a *side effect* of the design process, but *do not* make the mistake of thinking that's what graphic design is. Graphic design for print design has four aspects: Client Needs Audience Expectations Process (Identifying the problem space, going through many iterations, selecting the best solutions, and iterative refinement. This involves a A knowledge of the principles of good typography, and the principles of good visual design of course, but it is not pure visual design) Craftsmanship The graphic design process on the web is no different. A Good graphic designer (one who is familiar with what graphic design actually is, rather than the ignorant stereotype you just displayed) Should be involved in the process as EARLY and as OFTEN as possible. Not in the last step as you suggest. *Most* of this Graphic Designer's time should be spent with pencils and paper, and not in Photoshop or Illustrator. A great deal of time evaluating the problem at hand, and iteratively simplifying the solution. This is graphic design. If this is not what you've found in graphic designers in the past, then you have accidentally hired a Stylist, or possibly an Illustrator, not a graphic designer. Please do not slander my profession in the future. And P.S. this is a little tongue in cheek, so don't take too much offense. But seriously, you are wrong about graphic design. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 06:06 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Robby Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:01:29 +1000 Subject: Making Accessible Flash I'm trying to find some good information about making Flash accessible. When the developer is creating the flash animation they can add alt text and other elements to make them accessible. I'm in a situation where we're hosting externally created flash files on our page. When embedding these files, what is the best method for providing a text alternative? Cheers, Robby ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 05:06 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Chris Skene [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:55:07 +1000 Subject: RE: WSG Digest Is this the Web Standards Group or the We Spam Group? Christopher Skene E-Business Officer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Land Water Australia knowledge for managing Australian landscapes Land Water Australia graphic Level 1, 86 Northbourne Ave, Braddon ACT GPO Box 2182, Canberra ACT 2601 phone +61 2 6263 6067 fax +61 2 6263 6099 mobile 0422 969 899 www.lwa.gov.au This email is confidential. If received in error please delete and advise Land Water Australia by return email. -Original Message- From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 10:26 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:21:33 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites On 7/12/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: , you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all ab out purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far betw een. Far too far. That is an error in the Ads you've seen, and in t he Advertiser's understanding of Graphic Design being just as flawed as yours. This is not an error in my definition of Graphic Design. I wil l not dispute that many self proclaimed Graphic Designers hold the same fla wed view. This is a serious problem, which may be too big for me to singlehandedly handle, but a problem nonethless. To give an analogy, on e could easily advertise for an accountant who is proficient in the use of Quicken and TurboTax. However this would be a flawed advertisement, as proficiency in those programs does not a qualified accountant make. Nor does proficiency in photoshop make a qualified Graphic Designer, nor would proficiency in Dreamweaver make a qualified Web Developer, nor Proficiency in MySQL a qualified Database Designer. Indeed, a common view of Surgeons may be that all they do is cut people up and shift things around, discounting any knowledge they may have of human anatomy, or medical science. Now imagine if there were a bunch of surgeons running around getting hired who had the same f lawed perspective. It would be very difficult for a proper sur geon to gain any sense of credibility wouldn't it? That problem is real i n both Web Development, and Graphic Design. Given that it's something both fields have in common, I would expect us to be able to team up to fight such perceptions, but sadly this is not the case for practiti oners in either profession, as they each suffer from the misperceptions of the other. It makes me sad. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Land Wat er Australia using MessageLabs Email Security System. This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Land Wat er Australia using MessageLabs Email Security System. From: Marc Wolfgram [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:57:47 -0500 Subject: Re: WSG Digest On Jul 11, 2007, at 8:46 PM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. Question on digests... any sign of a light at the end of the tunnel? -- Marc ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 08:17 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 02:11:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites If you are interested in being and all-rounder, don't let anyone scare you away from it. I'm an all-rounder (designer/developer I would call it), a one-man company. On my sites I do all the planning, information layout, designing and coding - everything. (X)HTML, CSS, javascript, PHP, MySQL on every site and before that ASP and MSSQL (until 2006). The design process starts with pencil and paper. After bot 3-4 sheets of scribbles and squares zooming to and fro all over the paper, I have a worthy layout done. Then a wireframe is made in photoshop. Then the design is made. Then it gets chopped and pages marked up. Then the database gets built. Then the PHP is coded to stitch the front and back together. If time is left over some javascript is sprinkled in to taste. I hope that each site combines all the elements a little more smoothly than last time creating a continued progression as I go. As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Breton Slivka wrote: On 7/12/07, *Hassan Schroeder* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: , you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all about purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far between. Far too far. That is an error in the Ads you've seen, and in the Advertiser's understanding of Graphic Design being just as flawed as yours. This is not an error in my definition of Graphic Design. I will not dispute that many self proclaimed Graphic Designers hold the same flawed view. This is a serious problem, which may be too big for me to singlehandedly handle, but a problem nonethless. To give an analogy, one could easily advertise for an accountant who is proficient in the use of Quicken and TurboTax. However this would be a flawed advertisement, as proficiency in those programs does not a qualified accountant make. Nor does proficiency in photoshop make a qualified Graphic Designer, nor would proficiency in Dreamweaver make a qualified Web Developer, nor Proficiency in MySQL a qualified Database Designer. Indeed, a common view of Surgeons may be that all they do is cut people up and shift things around, discounting any knowledge they may have of human anatomy, or medical science. Now imagine if there were a bunch of surgeons running around getting hired who had the same flawed perspective. It would be very difficult for a proper surgeon to gain any sense of credibility wouldn't it? That problem is real in both Web Development, and Graphic Design. Given that it's something both fields have in common, I would expect us to be able to team up to fight such perceptions, but sadly this is not the case for practitioners in either profession, as they each suffer from the misperceptions of the other. It makes me sad. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** [removed attachment: joe.vcf] ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 05:16 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:07:39 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I would also consider Contribute, but only if the site information architecture is relatively small and unlikely to change. You can create areas within your perfectly crafted html that the customer can edit and update with a desktop application. For the most part, it seems to function well from what I have seen, and is particularly useful for those small sites that don't require a lot of smarts, but do require the odd update. Otherwise, yeah, go with a CMS if the site is larger. Karl On 7/12/07, James Gollan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been mentioned before, but I find Drupal has been great. It has modules for most things, has a fabulous extensible content system where you can define custom content types, a very powerful theming engine, and an incredibly modular approach to core functionality. When you learn how to use the system you can 'hook into' virtually all aspect of the system to configure it to do just about anything without adjusting the core code (and thus complicating your upgrade path). I have used it to create www.organicexpo.com.au which has an extensive backend order management system, but it is also being used on MTV sites and the satirical news site www.theonion.com. And it runs on php4 and 5. and it can be configured to use external authentication, customised caching such as memcache, and features a database agnostic abstraction layer. IBM, Yahoo (and Google i think) are using it for many internal sites. On 7/12/07, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11-Jul-07, at 4:09 AM, Kevin Ross wrote: Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Hi Kevin, I have used Textpattern on a number of client sites, and have been very happy with it so far. It is extensible using PHP (I believe), and produces valid, accessible code when used 'out of the box'. It is simple to install, use and maintain. Do take a look. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 04:26 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:21:33 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites On 7/12/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: , you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all about purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far between. Far too far. That is an error in the Ads you've seen, and in the Advertiser's understanding of Graphic Design being just as flawed as yours. This is not an error in my definition of Graphic Design. I will not dispute that many self proclaimed Graphic Designers hold the same flawed view. This is a serious problem, which may be too big for me to singlehandedly handle, but a problem nonethless. To give an analogy, one could easily advertise for an accountant who is proficient in the use of Quicken and TurboTax. However this would be a flawed advertisement, as proficiency in those programs does not a qualified accountant make. Nor does proficiency in photoshop make a qualified Graphic Designer, nor would proficiency in Dreamweaver make a qualified Web Developer, nor Proficiency in MySQL a qualified Database Designer. Indeed, a common view of Surgeons may be that all they do is cut people up and shift things around, discounting any knowledge they may have of human anatomy, or medical science. Now imagine if there were a bunch of surgeons running around getting hired who had the same flawed perspective. It would be very difficult for a proper surgeon to gain any sense of credibility wouldn't it? That problem is real in both Web Development, and Graphic Design. Given that it's something both fields have in common, I would expect us to be able to team up to fight such perceptions, but sadly this is not the case for practitioners in either profession, as they each suffer from the misperceptions of the other. It makes me sad. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 09:37 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:27:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites All Rounders are good, im one myself aswell, but dont expect to jump in and become good at everything, thats what im saying. And also, being an All Rounder is not a good thing sometime's, the main reason being that jobs wont be completed as quick as a team of developers could do it, ive lost a few clients due to this. I found it better for myself (lower stress levels ect.) to get a job in one area, and in spare time, or personal jobs do/learn the rest of it. Im currently a front-end developer, but it helps me alot to know back-end. Money wise, if you work for a company an all rounder wont be on that much pay extra, and usually the stress load is alot higher. Ive seen jobs for back-end developers at 22k a year, and jobs for front-end (HTML/CSS/JS only) for 28k a year. (UK Pounds). But even so, over the years, you will pick up all these languages if your intrests are strong in web development, and you will become an all rounder naturally. :P On 7/12/07, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are interested in being and all-rounder, don't let anyone scare you away from it. I'm an all-rounder (designer/developer I would call it), a one-man company. On my sites I do all the planning, information layout, designing and coding - everything. (X)HTML, CSS, javascript, PHP, MySQL on every site and before that ASP and MSSQL (until 2006). The design process starts with pencil and paper. After bot 3-4 sheets of scribbles and squares zooming to and fro all over the paper, I have a worthy layout done. Then a wireframe is made in photoshop. Then the design is made. Then it gets chopped and pages marked up. Then the database gets built. Then the PHP is coded to stitch the front and back together. If time is left over some javascript is sprinkled in to taste. I hope that each site combines all the elements a little more smoothly than last time creating a continued progression as I go. As long as you have an endless appetite for learning more and more all over the board, before you know it you'll be pretty far along with your knowledge. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Breton Slivka wrote: On 7/12/07, *Hassan Schroeder* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: , you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all about purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far between. Far too far. That is an error in the Ads you've seen, and in the Advertiser's understanding of Graphic Design being just as flawed as yours. This is not an error in my definition of Graphic Design. I will not dispute that many self proclaimed Graphic Designers hold the same flawed view. This is a serious problem, which may be too big for me to singlehandedly handle, but a problem nonethless. To give an analogy, one could easily advertise for an accountant who is proficient in the use of Quicken and TurboTax. However this would be a flawed advertisement, as proficiency in those programs does not a qualified accountant make. Nor does proficiency in photoshop make a qualified Graphic Designer, nor would proficiency in Dreamweaver make a qualified Web Developer, nor Proficiency in MySQL a qualified Database Designer. Indeed, a common view of Surgeons may be that all they do is cut people up and shift things around, discounting any knowledge they may have of human anatomy, or medical science. Now imagine if there were a bunch of surgeons running around getting hired who had the same flawed perspective. It would be very difficult for a proper surgeon to gain any sense of credibility wouldn't it? That problem is real in both Web Development, and Graphic Design. Given that it's something both fields have in common, I would expect us to be able to team up to fight such perceptions, but sadly this is not the case for practitioners in either profession, as they each suffer from the misperceptions of the other. It makes
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 03:46 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:03:51 +0530 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits On 11-Jul-07, at 4:09 AM, Kevin Ross wrote: Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Hi Kevin, I have used Textpattern on a number of client sites, and have been very happy with it so far. It is extensible using PHP (I believe), and produces valid, accessible code when used 'out of the box'. It is simple to install, use and maintain. Do take a look. Best, - Rahul. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 04:06 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Gollan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:02:23 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits It has been mentioned before, but I find Drupal has been great. It has modules for most things, has a fabulous extensible content system where you can define custom content types, a very powerful theming engine, and an incredibly modular approach to core functionality. When you learn how to use the system you can 'hook into' virtually all aspect of the system to configure it to do just about anything without adjusting the core code (and thus complicating your upgrade path). I have used it to create www.organicexpo.com.au which has an extensive backend order management system, but it is also being used on MTV sites and the satirical news site www.theonion.com. And it runs on php4 and 5. and it can be configured to use external authentication, customised caching such as memcache, and features a database agnostic abstraction layer. IBM, Yahoo (and Google i think) are using it for many internal sites. On 7/12/07, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11-Jul-07, at 4:09 AM, Kevin Ross wrote: Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Hi Kevin, I have used Textpattern on a number of client sites, and have been very happy with it so far. It is extensible using PHP (I believe), and produces valid, accessible code when used 'out of the box'. It is simple to install, use and maintain. Do take a look. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 02:46 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:44:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Breton Slivka wrote: Argghh no! the ignorance! Just stop going about thinking you know what you're talking about when it comes to Graphic Design! Graphic Design isn't Make it Purdy, Graphic design isn't Learn how to use photoshop. It's exactly that perception that leads to awful website after awful website. Certainly, aesthetic beauty is a *side effect* of the design process, but *do not* make the mistake of thinking that's what graphic design is. Wow. Apparently I woke /someone/ up :-) A Good graphic designer (one who is familiar with what graphic design actually is, rather than the ignorant stereotype you just displayed) And *you* may well be an exception to the rule, but... ... But seriously, you are wrong about graphic design. ..but seriously, I have *never* seen an ad for a Graphic Designer (or worse, mislabeled Web Designer) that looked for anything but Photoshop/Illustrator, possibly Flash, proficiency. Nothing about BA/IA/UX/ID. Zip. Zed. For the vast majority of such positions, it's all about purty. :-) Seriously. I do know exceptions -- Darrell Sano, who I worked with at Sun, comes to mind -- but they're few and far between. Far too far. -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 02:56 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:13:59 +0930 Subject: Re: WSG Digest Hi. yes, i know how to do html, css, javascript, and use notepad, but had to use dream weaver for one subjects, which was to improve a site, and have a flashy macromedia flash splash page, which i got a distinction for that, importing a flash control, a audio track, and putting together images in cells. and now, the only problem, is to understand how layers work. i know how html, css, and javascript work. it is the visual design. well, the course deals with both front end and back end design. and photoshop is going to be a challenge, as i do not think it works well with jaws. cheers Marvin. - Original Message - From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:15 AM Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:06:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Hi Marvin, It sounds like your trying to do to much to soon. First, lets understand the different aspects of web development. 1) Web Design - This involves understanding colors, extensive knowledge in graphics applications such as photoshop, illustrator or fireworks. 2) Front End - This is the coding side of things, the HTML, CSS and Javascript. Some front end developers can design aswell. 3) Back End - This is the PHP, MySQL, Java, ASP, Perl and other web based languages*. Alot of back end developers spend so much time behind what you see that they dont know much about developing front end, but still, alot of people can and do know all 3. There is more sides to the web, but i wont discuss them. To me it sounds like your trying to take on all 3, without having any working knowledge, or not enough knowledge of any. Personally i think you should sit back, and ask yourself what you want to do over the next 2 years, is it front end, or back end, or purley design? And when you've made up your mind, spend the time and learn more. If you cant grasp layers for design, your in a bit of a mess as this is real basic stuff, so understanding how photoshop works would be a great start, but you can't expect yourself to learn this all in a day. Do what feels right, but at the moment, i would'nt waste anymore time and/or money on this course until you can get to grips with the basics, which is at least Photoshop, HTML and CSS. There are some good resources out there, search google. Good luck, and keep sticking at it, i can recommend a few good books if you need. I will give you one tip, if your going to be doing front end (HTML, CSS, JS) try to use notepad or notepad++, dont bother with WYSIWYG editors such as dreamweaver ect. Notepad and the W3C Manuals should be enough to learn the foundations. Kind Regards On 7/11/07, Susan Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are some helpful links: Color Design: http://www.sessions.edu/career_center/design_tools/ color_calculator/index.asp and Color Theory: http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html Sample CSS Page Design Layouts for understanding how templates layout design http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/page_layouts/ http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts Hope this helps - Susan On 7/10/07, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. just wondering, any one able to give advice, help, tips, tricks and techniques. now, failed my two visual design subjects in my web site design course. -- Susan R. Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 02:26 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:18:36 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Hi This is true, the C4 course in Web Technology or whatever it is called now at TAFE NSW aims to give everyone a grounding knowledge in the fundementals of well, web technology. This includes graphic design, database design, server side coding, project management and many others. Some people find they are good at all, although that's rare, and they take this knowledge into being a good all rounder. Others find one topic that interests them. That's the value of a course like that, although they might not teach everything to top spec (at least they didn't in 2000). The good tech teams have at least one person who can move and translate across multiple disciplines - that in some cases is the only way the specialists can communicate with each other. J On 7/12/07, Adeline Yaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently doing the same course as Marvin (different stage and campus) and I don't think its a hinderance to be exposed to all sides of web development. I don't think they want us (students) to become all- rounders but to at least develop fundamental basics so if we are interested (eg. databases or graphic side of the web) we can then move into specialised fields or do further study eg. do a programming certificate (learning java and c sharp) or database design/development or multimedia design... I'll be continuing my cert iv course in website design then moving into the diploma course in website development (to learn more back-end languages eg. ajax, php, mysql and asp.net) starting next year. Seona Bellamy wrote: The trouble is that if this is part of a university/college course, then you don't get a choice. I mean, I knew what I wanted to specialise in, but I had to do all sorts of things during my degree course just so I could get that little piece of paper at the end. And while I technically didn't have to do brilliantly at all of them (except for the sake of my academic pride!) I did at least have to do well enough at all of them to pass. Any sort of schooling tends to try and turn out all-rounders. If you want to specialise, then do some independent study (certification courses, etc) once you have your bit of paper. :) Or, during, if you're as impatient as I am and can't be bothered waiting. ~Seona. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 01:35 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Seona Bellamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:34:52 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites On 12/07/07, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep and i would totally agree, but try telling that to marvin and youll confuse the poor guy, i was keeping things very simple for him/her. From past knowledge, if your to add jargon (which it is to marvin here) you would do more damage then good at this stage. But yep Hassan is right. This is why many companies will take on people from different feilds and not an All In One guy. So again, you need to decide on what it is you want to do, and dont try to take on the world, you will loose, i tryed, i lost and im sure alot of us here have. Its actually good to accept that not many people can be all rounders and keep up will all the new conventions, updates, bugs ect in all the different fields. Do the one, or two, and be brilliant at it. The trouble is that if this is part of a university/college course, then you don't get a choice. I mean, I knew what I wanted to specialise in, but I had to do all sorts of things during my degree course just so I could get that little piece of paper at the end. And while I technically didn't have to do brilliantly at all of them (except for the sake of my academic pride!) I did at least have to do well enough at all of them to pass. Any sort of schooling tends to try and turn out all-rounders. If you want to specialise, then do some independent study (certification courses, etc) once you have your bit of paper. :) Or, during, if you're as impatient as I am and can't be bothered waiting. ~Seona. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 01:56 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:48:25 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites On 7/12/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not that this will necessarily address Marvin's issues, but I just couldn't let it go by :-) First, lets understand the different aspects of web development. 1) Web Design - This involves understanding colors, extensive knowledge in graphics applications such as photoshop, illustrator or fireworks. To which I'd say -- sorry, no, that's *graphic* design. Real web design addresses business needs, information architecture, user experience and interaction design. It's what enables creation of wireframes or monochrome undecorated prototypes for usability testing long before any graphic artist's involvement. Without that, you're just painting pictures in markup... IMO :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. Argghh no! the ignorance! Just stop going about thinking you know what you're talking about when it comes to Graphic Design! Graphic Design isn't Make it Purdy, Graphic design isn't Learn how to use photoshop. It's exactly that perception that leads to awful website after awful website. Certainly, aesthetic beauty is a *side effect* of the design process, but *do not* make the mistake of thinking that's what graphic design is. Graphic design for print design has four aspects: Client Needs Audience Expectations Process (Identifying the problem space, going through many iterations, selecting the best solutions, and iterative refinement. This involves a A knowledge of the principles of good typography, and the principles of good visual design of course, but it is not pure visual design) Craftsmanship The graphic design process on the web is no different. A Good graphic designer (one who is familiar with what graphic design actually is, rather than the ignorant stereotype you just displayed) Should be involved in the process as EARLY and as OFTEN as possible. Not in the last step as you suggest. *Most* of this Graphic Designer's time should be spent with pencils and paper, and not in Photoshop or Illustrator. A great deal of time evaluating the problem at hand, and iteratively simplifying the solution. This is graphic design. If this is not what you've found in graphic designers in the past, then you have accidentally hired a Stylist, or possibly an Illustrator, not a graphic designer. Please do not slander my profession in the future. And P.S. this is a little tongue in cheek, so don't take too much offense. But seriously, you are wrong about graphic design. From: Adeline Yaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:48:55 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites I'm currently doing the same course as Marvin (different stage and campus) and I don't think its a hinderance to be exposed to all sides of web development. I don't think they want us (students) to become all-rounders but to at least develop fundamental basics so if we are interested (eg. databases or graphic side of the web) we can then move into specialised fields or do further study eg. do a programming certificate (learning java and c sharp) or database design/development or multimedia design... I'll be continuing my cert iv course in website design then moving into the diploma course in website development (to learn more back-end languages eg. ajax, php, mysql and asp.net) starting next year. Seona Bellamy wrote: The trouble is that if this is part of a university/college course, then you don't get a choice. I mean, I knew what I wanted to specialise in, but I had to do all sorts of things during my degree course just so I could get that little piece of paper at the end. And while I technically didn't have to do brilliantly at all of them (except for the sake of my academic pride!) I did at least have to do well enough at all of them to pass. Any sort of schooling tends to try and turn out all-rounders. If you want to specialise, then do some independent study (certification courses, etc) once you have your bit of paper. :) Or, during, if you're as impatient as I am and can't be bothered waiting. ~Seona. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 01:25 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:22:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Yep and i would totally agree, but try telling that to marvin and youll confuse the poor guy, i was keeping things very simple for him/her. From past knowledge, if your to add jargon (which it is to marvin here) you would do more damage then good at this stage. But yep Hassan is right. This is why many companies will take on people from different feilds and not an All In One guy. So again, you need to decide on what it is you want to do, and dont try to take on the world, you will loose, i tryed, i lost and im sure alot of us here have. Its actually good to accept that not many people can be all rounders and keep up will all the new conventions, updates, bugs ect in all the different fields. Do the one, or two, and be brilliant at it. On 7/12/07, Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not that this will necessarily address Marvin's issues, but I just couldn't let it go by :-) First, lets understand the different aspects of web development. 1) Web Design - This involves understanding colors, extensive knowledge in graphics applications such as photoshop, illustrator or fireworks. To which I'd say -- sorry, no, that's *graphic* design. Real web design addresses business needs, information architecture, user experience and interaction design. It's what enables creation of wireframes or monochrome undecorated prototypes for usability testing long before any graphic artist's involvement. Without that, you're just painting pictures in markup... IMO :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 01:05 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Hassan Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:02:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Not that this will necessarily address Marvin's issues, but I just couldn't let it go by :-) First, lets understand the different aspects of web development. 1) Web Design - This involves understanding colors, extensive knowledge in graphics applications such as photoshop, illustrator or fireworks. To which I'd say -- sorry, no, that's *graphic* design. Real web design addresses business needs, information architecture, user experience and interaction design. It's what enables creation of wireframes or monochrome undecorated prototypes for usability testing long before any graphic artist's involvement. Without that, you're just painting pictures in markup... IMO :-) -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com dream. code. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 12.07.2007 um 00:15 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:06:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Hi Marvin, It sounds like your trying to do to much to soon. First, lets understand the different aspects of web development. 1) Web Design - This involves understanding colors, extensive knowledge in graphics applications such as photoshop, illustrator or fireworks. 2) Front End - This is the coding side of things, the HTML, CSS and Javascript. Some front end developers can design aswell. 3) Back End - This is the PHP, MySQL, Java, ASP, Perl and other web based languages*. Alot of back end developers spend so much time behind what you see that they dont know much about developing front end, but still, alot of people can and do know all 3. There is more sides to the web, but i wont discuss them. To me it sounds like your trying to take on all 3, without having any working knowledge, or not enough knowledge of any. Personally i think you should sit back, and ask yourself what you want to do over the next 2 years, is it front end, or back end, or purley design? And when you've made up your mind, spend the time and learn more. If you cant grasp layers for design, your in a bit of a mess as this is real basic stuff, so understanding how photoshop works would be a great start, but you can't expect yourself to learn this all in a day. Do what feels right, but at the moment, i would'nt waste anymore time and/or money on this course until you can get to grips with the basics, which is at least Photoshop, HTML and CSS. There are some good resources out there, search google. Good luck, and keep sticking at it, i can recommend a few good books if you need. I will give you one tip, if your going to be doing front end (HTML, CSS, JS) try to use notepad or notepad++, dont bother with WYSIWYG editors such as dreamweaver ect. Notepad and the W3C Manuals should be enough to learn the foundations. Kind Regards On 7/11/07, Susan Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are some helpful links: Color Design: http://www.sessions.edu/career_center/ design_tools/color_calculator/index.asp and Color Theory: http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html Sample CSS Page Design Layouts for understanding how templates layout design http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/page_layouts/ http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts Hope this helps - Susan On 7/10/07, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. just wondering, any one able to give advice, help, tips, tricks and techniques. now, failed my two visual design subjects in my web site design course. -- Susan R. Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 20:03 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Michael Perrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:58:42 +0100 Subject: RE: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I would suggest taking a look at ModX (www.modxcms.com). It has less features than some of the others, but creates accessible sites and is PHP based. Mike Perrett --- 123 Interactive Brighton Media Centre 68 Middle Street Brighton BN1 1AL 07843497356 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.123interactive.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: 11 July 2007 15:17 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 20:13 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 04:02:58 +1000 Subject: Paul Gibson is out of the office. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] I will be out of the office starting 12/07/2007 and will not return until 16/07/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. Contact my mobile if urgent. Important Notice: If you have received this email by mistake, please advise the sender and delete the message and attachments immediately. This email, including attachments, may contain confidential, sensitive, legally privileged and/or copyright information. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. DIAC respects your privacy and has obligations under the Privacy Act 1988. The official departmental privacy policy can be viewed on the department's website at www.immi.gov.au See: http://www.immi.gov.au/functional/privacy.htm ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 19:53 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Susan Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:47:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [WSG] Visual Design Of Websites Here are some helpful links: Color Design: http://www.sessions.edu/career_center/design_tools/color_calculator/ index.asp and Color Theory: http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory- basics.html Sample CSS Page Design Layouts for understanding how templates layout design http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/ page_layouts/ http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts Hope this helps - Susan On 7/10/07, Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. just wondering, any one able to give advice, help, tips, tricks and techniques. now, failed my two visual design subjects in my web site design course. -- Susan R. Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 17:39 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:03:51 +0530 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits On 11-Jul-07, at 4:09 AM, Kevin Ross wrote: Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Hi Kevin, I have used Textpattern on a number of client sites, and have been very happy with it so far. It is extensible using PHP (I believe), and produces valid, accessible code when used 'out of the box'. It is simple to install, use and maintain. Do take a look. Best, - Rahul. From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:36:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest Thanks Greg, just taking a look at WebGUI, looks really good. On 11/07/07, Greg Hacke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would avoid CMSMadeSimple It's not a bad CMS but _everything_ is after-market and it is very difficult to maintain as standards compliant. I use WebGUI (www.webgui.org) right now for CMS work. It maintains compliance quite well - although its server requirements are a bit higher. Greg Hacke Idle Hands Press :: idlehandspress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] :: IM greghacke +1.614.388.9106 :: Skype greghacke There is no right. -Original Message- From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 0:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:17:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 16:19 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:17:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 16:29 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Ryan Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:25:19 -0300 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits dotnetnuke has some nice functionality, but out of the box is an accessibility nightmare. On 7/11/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 16:39 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:34:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Most publishing systems have the ability to add an edit link to pages. In expression engine and movable type I use that for clients to make it easier. When logged in and viewing their site when they see a page that they want to change/update, click on edit, change and save. Attached a jpg to demo what happens when a client is logged in and clicks on edit from a page.. This can be setup so that they can only see/edit the content and nothing else shows, preventing wrecking the templates etc. Hope an attachment is ok rules wise... bruce P bkdesign - Original Message - From: Ryan Moore To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits dotnetnuke has some nice functionality, but out of the box is an accessibility nightmare. On 7/11/07, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny you should send that one Kevin, I am literally just scoping around for a similar solution to the site I have just built. I was recommended these two aparrently free CMS solutions by another client. http://www.dotnetnuke.com/ http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/ I am only just taking a look now so not sure how standards compliant they are. The last site I built used a combination of Contribute and Wordpress, not so pretty and kind of limiting. Depends on what they want to update and the type of content I guess. I would like to hear of any other free open source CMS solutions there are out there? preferably one using PHP, but open to suggestions. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 02:36 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:04:02 +1200 Subject: Re: WSG Digest www.cmsmatrix.org has a good comparrison of cms' also one of the more popular open source cms systems based on php i do believe is mambo. however i could be wrong (the technology its based on). wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:39:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** From: Jennifer Siegfried [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:44:08 -0600 Subject: Re: WSG Digest If I understand correctly, you're referring to what's called image replaced text. Personally, I use the Phark Revisited method (down a bit in the page): http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/ Images should never be used for text in the HTML, that is correct. I worked up a small example a couple of weeks ago demonstrating some methods I use: http://www.jsiegfried.com/projects/irrollovers/ir- rollovers.html Hope I've correctly understood your question. And if I have, hope I've helped. Cheers! Jen On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:26:30 1000, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:25:35
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 04:57 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Melissa Forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:49:48 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Images as content vs. images as backgrounds It really depends on the situation, there may very well be a valid reason for using an img tag opposed to a background image for textual content. For example you could have a list of clients, rather than just displaying you may want to display the logos, now adding an id to each logo. These may or may not seem like text content to some people because they are logos after all, but its a list of clients so text would also be valid however it doesnt make much sense using background images because you would need to give each image an id and write css for each image. Another reason you may use an img of background image is that you may want the image to be on the print version of the page, using a background image will not work as default browser settings disabled printing of backgrounds by default so the only way to get it to print is to use an img. As long as the images has relevant alt text there is no problem, you have a valid reason why it needs to be an image and you are not over doing it than I personally think its fine. On 7/11/07, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list, I've been talking to someone who thinks that a perfectly semantic website has absolutely no img tags used for text in images. Could anyone help me find some articles about using img tags vs. using background images for navigation links or textual content where images are being used? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 07:07 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Marvin Hunkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:26:03 +0930 Subject: Visual Design Of Websites Hi. just wondering, any one able to give advice, help, tips, tricks and techniques. now, failed my two visual design subjects in my web site design course. and have to re-enroll for next semester. the main problems i had was understanding layers in css, and how to use them in a website. like, for example, a banner layer, conetn, navigation, use of colors, proximity,contrast etc. and also when i found my images for the site was creating, the images were too big, and even though i used the width and height property in the html code, still was too big and dominating the content on the page. also the color, was the wrong background and fore ground color. and also, for my other subject page design and layout, any one got any good examples, or tips of how to do good design and page layout, and use of colors, on the page, but still got the css, layers problems, and not understanding of the different page design layouts. and the same problem with the images, too big, and not able to edit or crop, using a graphics or photo editor program with jaws, without sighted help, which i have asked my disability officer, for some assistance. also, for one of the subjects for next semester, will come up again, with the developing a commercial website, and how it looks, and functions. and also, story boards, as not able to use a accessible drawing package, like Visio, to use with a screen reader. so had to do it in word, and put tables, but still did not work out correct. sorry for the long message, but had to explain myself, about design, positioning, colors, layout, etc. if any one can help, e-mail me privately. cheers Marvin. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 00:56 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Hede Mathias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:50:29 +1000 Subject: RE: [WSG] Client - Site Edits [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] I would highly recommend wordpress www.wordpress.org it started off as a blogging platform but is excellent to use as a CMS for clients. it's easy to use and intuitive I've used it on a few sites for clients who want to maintain their own content. It's php and mysql based and dead easy to setup... Making the template is easy enough and there are good resources out there.. here's an article on how to use it as a CMS. http://www.siolon.com/2006/utilizing-wordpress-as-a-content- management-s ystem-cms/ mat. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Ross Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 8:39 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Disclaimer This message has been issued by the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS). The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 00:46 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:39:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** From: Jennifer Siegfried [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:44:08 -0600 Subject: Re: WSG Digest If I understand correctly, you're referring to what's called image replaced text. Personally, I use the Phark Revisited method (down a bit in the page): http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/ Images should never be used for text in the HTML, that is correct. I worked up a small example a couple of weeks ago demonstrating some methods I use: http://www.jsiegfried.com/projects/irrollovers/ir- rollovers.html Hope I've correctly understood your question. And if I have, hope I've helped. Cheers! Jen On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:26:30 1000, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:25:35 -0700 Subject: Images as content vs. images as backgrounds Hello list, I've been talking to someone who thinks that a perfectly semantic website has absolutely no img tags used for text in images. Could anyone help me find some articles about using img tags vs. using background images for navigation links or textual content where images are being used? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 00:26 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:25:35 -0700 Subject: Images as content vs. images as backgrounds Hello list, I've been talking to someone who thinks that a perfectly semantic website has absolutely no img tags used for text in images. Could anyone help me find some articles about using img tags vs. using background images for navigation links or textual content where images are being used? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 19:15 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:06:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Genius, that's solved it, thanks Andrew! No-one had replied to me on Sitepoint yet... In answer to your question, the client has added it as a measure to save valuable space on the left hand Nav. There could be more courses getting added too, so I guess I can see their point in some ways, as long as I can make it accessible I'm not too fazed. Thanks again for your help Paul On 10/07/07, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 10, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Paul Collins wrote: form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php;; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm Should be : method=post NOT action=post But I have to wonder why the need to use this method to form a purely navigational function..? Unless you're collecting other data within the form before the redirect? Andrew 109B SE 4th Av Gainesville FL 32601 Cell: 352-870-6661 http://www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 18:25 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:20:35 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Thanks for your help guys, makes more sense. It still isn't working though, so I'll go find another forum to post to about PHP. Cheers Paul On 10/07/07, Ross Bruniges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should use $_POST['New_URL'] - thats going to be the value of the select box. Looking at your code there is nothing called ID on there! and also - PHP is really off topic of this list, not sure of any PHP mailers but the sitepoint forums always get me out of bother! - Original Message From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, 10 July, 2007 3:57:58 PM Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php;; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/ courses/artsAndMedia.phpArts Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/ businessAndPublicServices.phpBusiness Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel Tourism/option optionESOL Languages/option optionHair, Beauty Sport/option optionHumanities English/option optionICT Maths/option optionPerforming Arts Media/ option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ___ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 18:55 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:53:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL On Jul 10, 2007, at 12:20 PM, Paul Collins wrote: form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php;; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm Should be : method=post NOT action=post But I have to wonder why the need to use this method to form a purely navigational function..? Unless you're collecting other data within the form before the redirect? Andrew 109B SE 4th Av Gainesville FL 32601 Cell: 352-870-6661 http://www.andrewmaben.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 17:25 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Ross Bruniges [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:20:26 + (GMT) Subject: Re: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL you should use $_POST['New_URL'] - thats going to be the value of the select box. Looking at your code there is nothing called ID on there! and also - PHP is really off topic of this list, not sure of any PHP mailers but the sitepoint forums always get me out of bother! - Original Message From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, 10 July, 2007 3:57:58 PM Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php;; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/ courses/artsAndMedia.phpArts amp; Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/ businessAndPublicServices.phpBusiness amp; Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel amp; Tourism/option optionESOL amp; Languages/option optionHair, Beauty amp; Sport/ option optionHumanities amp; English/ option optionICT amp; Maths/option optionPerforming Arts amp; Media/option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ___ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Is there a way to turn this guy off? I just got about 15 of these in my email. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Till Elsner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 1:24 PM Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 11.07.2007 um 00:56 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Hede Mathias [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:50:29 +1000 Subject: RE: [WSG] Client - Site Edits [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] I would highly recommend wordpress www.wordpress.org it started off as a blogging platform but is excellent to use as a CMS for clients. it's easy to use and intuitive I've used it on a few sites for clients who want to maintain their own content. It's php and mysql based and dead easy to setup... Making the template is easy enough and there are good resources out there.. here's an article on how to use it as a CMS. http://www.siolon.com/2006/utilizing-wordpress-as-a-content- management-s ystem-cms/ mat. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Ross Sent: Wednesday, 11 July 2007 8:39 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I find it very disappointing that very few clients really appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into designing and building a site (in my experience). This particular client wants to save a few bucks by maintaining the site herself. She doesn't seem to realize that her time is valuable as well and better used when devoted to her strengths. I think most of us know that we need to call a plumber or electrician as they are experts in their fields, and rightly so. Nuff said... Now that I have a realization that I need to incorporate some sort of a CMS solution, can anyone lead me to resources that may help to teach me the ropes? I am leaning towards PHP, as I am somewhat familiar with the language. Thanks. Regards, Kevin. On 7/10/07, Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Disclaimer This message has been issued by the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS). The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify DOTARS on (02) 6274-7111
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 17:15 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:11:41 +0100 Subject: RE: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Your select name attribute is New_URL but you're looking for a POST attribute called id. Change your PHP script to $_POST[New_URL] and it should work. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins Sent: 10 July 2007 15:58 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php;Arts amp; Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/ businessAndPublicServices.phpBusiness amp; Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel amp; Tourism/option optionESOL amp; Languages/option optionHair, Beauty amp; Sport/option optionHumanities amp; English/option optionICT amp; Maths/option optionPerforming Arts amp; Media/option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 17:05 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:57:58 +0100 Subject: Select that goes to a new URL Hi all, This should be pretty basic stuff, but coding the forms can be a bit above me sometimes :) I've hunted around and can't seem to find the answer, so here goes... I've got a select box, with a bunch of options that need to go to another page in the website when the go button is clicked. I'm running this on my localhost, so not sure if the CGI scripts are all there, I am running PHP though, so it would be ideal to set it up that way. Here is my code, would appreciate any links/advice. Cheers form action=post action=http://localhost/includes/redirect.php; name=selectCourse id=selectCourseForm fieldset select name=New_URL optionSelect a course/option option value=http://localhost/courses/artsAndMedia.php;Arts amp; Media/option option value=http://localhost/courses/ businessAndPublicServices.phpBusiness amp; Public Services/option option value=http://localhost/courses/careTravelAndTourism.php;Care Travel amp; Tourism/option optionESOL amp; Languages/option optionHair, Beauty amp; Sport/option optionHumanities amp; English/option optionICT amp; Maths/option optionPerforming Arts amp; Media/option optionSkills for life/option optionScience/option /select input name=submit type=submit id=goButton_replace value=Go/ /fieldset /form I've tried it with this redirect PHP script, but doesn't seem to work: ?php header(Location: . $_POST['id']); ? ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 10:54 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Roberts, Amanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 18:51:38 +1000 Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest I'm out of the office on carer's leave Wednesday 11th July. I'll be back in the office Thursday 12th July. Regards, Amanda Amanda Roberts Producer Sensis Interactive Sensis Pty Ltd 222 Lonsdale Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3000 03 8653 7898 0408 311 478 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sensis. Australia's leading information resource. Making complex lives simpler by helping you find, buy and sell. www.about.sensis.com.au www.sensis.com.au www.yellow.com.au www.whitepages.com.au www.citysearch.com.au www.whereis.com.au www.gostay.com.au www.smallbusiness.sensis.com.au www.justlisted.com.au www.linkme.com.au www.telstra.com.au www.tradingpost.com.au www.universalpublishers.com.au www.invizage.com.au www.carshowroom.com.au Sensis cares for the environment - think before you print. This email and any attachments are intended only for the use of the recipient and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. Sensis Pty Ltd disclaims liability for any errors, omissions, viruses, loss and/or damage arising from using, opening or transmitting this email. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, interfere with, disclose, copy or retain this email and you should notify the sender immediately by return email or by contacting Sensis Pty Ltd by telephone on [+61 3 8653 5000] ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 10:44 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:36:29 +0100 Subject: RE: [WSG] Shadow validation Not sure about the 1.X series, but text shadow is supported in Safari 2.X - I have been using it for quite a while, and love it. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lucien Stals Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 4:32 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation Regardless of whether it's valid or not, hardly any mainstream browsers currently support text shadows. (Does Firefox? I can only think of Safari 3, only available as the WebKit until Leopard gets released). ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
There are about 65 so far. The user has been deleted and we are working on the issue. Apologies to all. Russ on 14/7/07 8:16 AM, Nancy Gill at wrote: Is there a way to turn this guy off? I just got about 15 of these in my email. Thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 10:34 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:28:37 +0100 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation On 10 Jul 2007, at 04:20, Dean Matthews wrote: On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: Not really, just chose the appropriate options (advanced...) when you try to validate a file. Yes I see, but how do you link a Valid CSS icon to an advanced search? Validate it, then copy/paste the URL (don't forget to convert ampersands to entities). Or see http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html#icon -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 06:23 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:15:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Kevin Ross wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Be careful if you don't use a CMS system. I donated a web site for a local organization and it was a beauty...since I no longer had the time to devote to updating I turned it over to a so called 'web designer' in the community (at the recommendation of the executive director). Sadly, he has basically ruined my site because he has no idea what he is doing and has no concept of web standards--or style for that matter. It is a real shame that so many people charge for and design web sites that don't follow any sort of standards. Matthew From: Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:15:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation On Jul 9, 2007, at 11:32 PM, Lucien Stals wrote: Regardless of whether it's valid or not, hardly any mainstream browsers currently support text shadows. Yes, well it really is a let down viewing a site in Safari or OmniWeb and then viewing it in IE or FF. I am finding quite a few clients impressed with the difference in the new Windows Safari and making the switch. Maybe Safari will become mainstream (especially with the success of iPhone ;) The more design can be put in the browser and removed from image files the better. On Jul 9, 2007, at 11:46 PM, Matthew Ohlman wrote: Just copy and paste the entire URL out of the address bar when you validate it. Thanks for the tip Matthew! Dean ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 06:03 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:56:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Thanks guys... I'm going to see what's happening on the CMS List. Regards... On 7/9/07, Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In short yes it would probably be best... I had the same problem with a client and so I gave him the website in WordPress, so now I only do major style/ structure changes and he handles the content changes himself [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/07/2007 11:36:34 am I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. * *** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** From: Helen Rysavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:24:53 +0930 Subject: RE: [WSG] Client - Site Edits I get my clients to install SeaMonkey which has an inbuilt editor FTP client and is really good for basic text edits. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ Cheers Helen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Gollan Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2007 1:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Kevin Ross wrote: I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Probably more appropriate for the WSG CMS list, but short answer is yes, a CMS would definitely address this issue. Other options include Adobe Contribute. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 05:43 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:36:34 -0400 Subject: Client - Site Edits Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Regards, ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 05:53 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: James Gollan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:50:08 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits Kevin Ross wrote: I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Probably more appropriate for the WSG CMS list, but short answer is yes, a CMS would definitely address this issue. Other options include Adobe Contribute. From: Jermayn Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:45:25 +0800 Subject: Re: [WSG] Client - Site Edits In short yes it would probably be best... I had the same problem with a client and so I gave him the website in WordPress, so now I only do major style/ structure changes and he handles the content changes himself [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/07/2007 11:36:34 am I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. ** ** The above message has been scanned and meets the Insurance Commission of Western Australia's Email security policy requirements for outbound transmission. This email (facsimile) and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (facsimile) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email (facsimile) in error please contact the Insurance Commission. Web: www.icwa.wa.gov.au Phone: +61 08 9264 ** *** From: Matthew Ohlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:46:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation Lucien Stals wrote: Regardless of whether it's valid or not, hardly any mainstream browsers currently support text shadows. (Does Firefox? I can only think of Safari 3, only available as the WebKit until Leopard gets released). So even once you have it validating, practically nobody will be able to appreciated your fine work :( Lucien. I don't think Firefox does. And if I recall correctly (call me on it if I am wrong) text-shadow was included in the CSS 2 specs, but it was dropped due to lack of support. Also, Dean, it is possible to link to a CSS validation with advanced options. Just copy and paste the entire URL out of the address bar when you validate it. For example: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.ohlman.com%2Fstyle.csswarning=1profile=css3usermedium=all You can see that the profile option is equal to css3 in the above URL. HTH Matthew From: Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:49:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Client - Site Edits Hi all, My apologies. I was just re-reading my own posts to this site and had forgotten that I had already asked this question, at least in part. I would still appreciate knowing how others would handle this situation. Regards, On 7/9/07, Kevin Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I am trying to find a solution to a nagging problem. Most of my client's sites are not very dynamic and I update them as the client requires. Because the updates are very infrequent, I have not been charging very much for this ongoing support. However, I have a new client who wants to maintain her own site (one I designed for her). She is pretty good on the computer, but doesn't really know her way around HTML or CSS. I am agonizing over how to pass the torch over to her. The site is not extremely complex, but is more than a little task for someone who does not design web sites. I am wondering for advice on this situation and I am also wondering how others handle ongoing updates after the initial design has been implemented. I am also wondering if a CMS system would, in any way, be a solution to a situation like this. Thanks. Regards, ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 05:33 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Lucien Stals [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:32:15 +1000 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation Regardless of whether it's valid or not, hardly any mainstream browsers currently support text shadows. (Does Firefox? I can only think of Safari 3, only available as the WebKit until Leopard gets released). So even once you have it validating, practically nobody will be able to appreciated your fine work :( Lucien. -- Lucien Stals Multimedia/Web Developer Academic Development and Support Swinburne University of Technology PO Box 218 Hawthorn, 3122, Australia email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] telephone: +61 3 9214 4474 office: AD223 On 10/07/2007 at 1:20 pm, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: Not really, just chose the appropriate options (advanced...) when you try to validate a file. Yes I see, but how do you link a Valid CSS icon to an advanced search? Thanks, Dean *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Swinburne University of Technology CRICOS Provider Code: 00111D NOTICE This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended only for the use of the addressee. They may contain information that is privileged or protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use is strictly prohibited. The University does not warrant that this e-mail and any attachments are secure and there is also a risk that it may be corrupted in transmission. It is your responsibility to check any attachments for viruses or defects before opening them. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us on +61 3 9214 8000 and delete it immediately from your system. We do not accept liability in connection with computer virus, data corruption, delay, interruption, unauthorised access or unauthorised amendment. Please consider the environment before printing this email. [removed attachment: Lucien Stals.vcf] BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Lucien Stals TEL;WORK:4474 ORG:;Academic Development and Support EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:[EMAIL PROTECTED] N:Stals;Lucien END:VCARD [removed attachment: Lucien Stals.vcf] ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 05:23 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:20:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: Not really, just chose the appropriate options (advanced...) when you try to validate a file. Yes I see, but how do you link a Valid CSS icon to an advanced search? Thanks, Dean ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The recipient will be unavailable until July 15th and will respond to your message afterwards. Am 10.07.2007 um 04:33 schrieb wsg@webstandardsgroup.org: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * Due to an upgrade of SmarterMail, digests seem to have had a problem. We are working on it. * From: Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:23:29 +0900 Subject: Re: [WSG] Shadow validation On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:36 AM, Dean Matthews wrote: I thought I was dense but now I think the W3C is just behind the curve ;-) Not really, just chose the appropriate options (advanced...) when you try to validate a file. Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] To target or not
i think there is a good way to do this, and is still accessible. ian lloyd teaches how to do it. if js is enable. it opens in a new window, if it's disabled it opens in same window. http://www.accessify.com/features/tutorials/the-perfect-popup/ thanks tales ebner talesebner.com [unfinished] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
