Re: [WSG] CSS2.1 now an official recommendation
Does your amplifier go up to 11? On Fri, June 17, 2011 9:03 am, Grant Bailey wrote: Hello, I can barely believe that CSS2.1 has only just become an official recommendation (see http://www.css3.info/css2-1-and-the-css3-color-module-become-official-w3c-recommendations/). Could anyone explain why this took so long? Many of us are already using CSS3! Seems to me that speeding the process of approval along (just a little) might encourage browser vendors to comply with web standards ... Insights would be appreciated. Kind regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] pop up windows and Google
Possibly you could use: META NAME=ROBOTS CONTENT=NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW so they're not indexed in the first place. On Thu, May 12, 2011 10:14 am, Bob Schwartz wrote: I have several sites where i use pop-up windows to present certain types of information. When someone does a Google search sometimes Google lists results from these pop-up pages. When the searcher clicks on the Google result he gets the pop-up window as a stand-alone page in his browser with no links to anywhere on the actual site. Savvy people would just delete the part after the domain in the url bar, hit enter and be at the site, but I'm discovering not all are savvy. So, is anyone aware of any clever javascript that would detect if the page had not been opened as a pop-up and write a link to the actual site (and not write the link if opened as a pop-up)? Or, any other suggestion (besides don't use pop-ups)? Thank you, Bob Schwartz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Title tags - site name then keywords?
Hi, Search engines are blind readers - design for accessibility. Each page on the Website should be on a specific topic (except, perhaps,for the Homepage). Put the topic first in the title tag, so that it is easily identifiable from the other pages. The top header in the page content should also relate to the topic. The keywords you wish to obtain search engine results for, for any particular page, are presumably the page topic. Stuart On Tue, April 19, 2011 8:30 pm, Stevio wrote: When it comes to search engine optimisation, are you better to list the site name/business name first in the title tag, and then keywords, or the other way round? e.g. ABC Engineering Ltd - Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding or Steel Fabrication, Pipework, Welding - ABC Engineering Ltd Are you likely to do better in search engines with the keywords first in the title tag? Thanks, Stephen *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] images against color backgrounds
Might get some ideas from CSS Drop Shadows @ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssdropshadows/ On Wed, December 8, 2010 9:01 pm, cat soul wrote: I hope I'm not bending/breaking the purpose of the list but wanted opinions on best practices for preparing images for use on web pages where there are color backgrounds, and the image must have some of that background color in them. Example: you want to place an image with a drop shadow, so in photoshop, you prepare your image with drop shadow, both of them in layers above the same background color as on the page. When you place such an image, flattened and jpg'd, it looks seamless. Trouble comes when you want to change the background color on the page (s) where you've already prepped the images with a given color..then you have to change that, too, and re-jpg, re-place, etc.. Some images don't look right unless their lifted off the page with a drop shadow, IMHO... cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Site for Vision Impaired
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/#tools On Fri, November 26, 2010 11:25 pm, Daniel Anderson wrote: G'day Everyone, I was wondering if any of you have done any work on sites for the visually impaired? I have just started a projet for a school for the visually impaired and the site must cater for these people, and obvioulsy for people with normal eysite. What are the considerations I need to take into account with a project like this? eg ability to change contrast, text size etc? Are there any good resources or advice you could share with me? It would be greatly appreciated. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] best formatting for alt text
Or rather, start with the the semantic structure of the page, then insert the image into the structure appropriately. On Sat, November 13, 2010 1:46 am, Christian Montoya wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Patrick H. Lauke re...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 13/11/2010 01:23, cat soul wrote: Right..I noticed this while playing around, and I wondered whether it represents an opportunity by making sure that it has some desired formatting, or whether those who rely upon alt information just want normal, smallish text. so if the image was, for instance, a heading (not doing any css image replacement, just putting straight images in the markup), then obviously the entire image would be wrapped in the appropriate heading element. Hear, hear. If you are using images for text, you should still wrap them semantically. -- -- Christian Montoya mappdev.com :: christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] attribute selectors to target external and internal links
On Sat, October 23, 2010 3:46 am, tee wrote: Now I feel like the simpleton who tried enter the room with a long stick holding horizontally. tee Is that horizontally, perpendicular to the entrance or horizontally, parallel to the entrance? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: Fonts in MS Publisher compared to onlineRe:
But then again, how it displays is dependent on the fonts available on the site visitor's system not what some graphic designer wants. That's why many graphic designers make poor Web Designers - they can't get their head round the flexibility that needs to be designed into a Website. On Tue, September 14, 2010 10:45 am, Lyn Smith wrote: I have worked it out - it is because it is a Heading - h1. If I make it a p, it becomes as he wants. I imagine an H1 is more important to a search engine than a p? :-) -- Lyn Smith www.westernwebdesign.com.au Affordable website design Perth WA *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]
Any bets we'll still be using HTML5 in 2018? On Sat, June 12, 2010 4:16 pm, Sam Sherlock wrote: Any bets for it being done in time to watch the 2018 World Cup on an HTML 5 video feed? in a ie browser without any fudging? my initial response was only if Google are in position to take over Microsoft before that date, but... http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/05/19/another-follow-up-on-html5-video-in-ie9.aspx ie9: A New Hope? for the time being ie6 remains a significant number too me much as I wish it did'nt - S On 12 June 2010 12:42, Phil Archer ph...@w3.org wrote: Again, interesting, stuff, Dave. Concerning your remark: If I was Microsoft I'd be quite worried that the IT support pros, influencers and developers have such a different make-up than the mainstream. I believe they are indeed concerned about this. AIUI they're a little fed up with the constant remarks on fora like this where we're broadly able to talk about the standards browsers and mean every browser except IE for which, everyone knows you need to put in workarounds. IE9 is going to take a big step towards changing that with support for SVG, XHTML and more. As for when IT departments get around to changing over to it, who can say? Any bets for it being done in time to watch the 2018 World Cup on an HTML 5 video feed? Phil. Dave Lane wrote: For what it's worth, some of our non-techie sites (with much smaller user numbers, as they're focused on the relatively tiny New Zealand market) are showing a slightly rosier picture over the past month: Advocacy website for cyclists (4544 visits): IE: 41.57% (IE6-15.09% 7-37.96% 8-46.96%) FF: 40.29% CHROME: 9.09% SAFARI: 7.68% OPERA: 0.62% IE6 = 6.27% Sports clothing (28,337 visits): IE: 49.92% (IE6-13.8% 7-27.06% 8-59.11%) FF: 24.87% CHROME: 6.20% SAFARI: 17.82% OPERA: 0.77% IE6 = 6.88% Brewers website (3,300 visits): IE: 45.97% (IE6-10.42% 7-30.72% 8-58.87%) FF: 30.06% CHROME: 11.27% SAFARI: 10.03% OPERA: 1.03% IE6 = 4.79% Tourism operator (4,041 visits): IE: 54.84% (IE6-11.60% 7-28.07% 8-60.24%) FF: 26.73% CHROME: 4.80% SAFARI: 12.77% OPERA: 0.42% IE6 = 6.36% For contrast, here're the stats for a tech company. IT services and software dev company (3,050 visits): IE: 15.02% (IE6-8.52% 7-19.87% 8-71.62%) FF: 56.20% CHROME: 18.52% SAFARI: 5.48% OPERA: 2.82% IE6 = 1.28% If I was Microsoft I'd be quite worried that the IT support pros, influencers and developers have such a different make-up than the mainstream. Cheers, Dave On 12/06/10 00:32, Lea de Groot wrote: On 11/06/10 9:32 PM, Foskett, Mike wrote: I just took a peek at our own stats for May 2010. A very large set limited to UK online shoppers only. And I couldn't agree less with the article. I have a couple of large .au 'mum and dad' sites (ie, not techie) and I have similar results to your .uk figures: Internet Explorer67.11% Firefox17.19% Safari 9.70% Chrome4.67% with specific IE figures of IE8.059.08% IE7.028.46% IE6.012.44% ie IE 6 is at 8.3% overall - lower than your numbers, but still worth testing for. Interestingly, I have iphone/ipod numbers at 2.77% and rising fast - I guess I better get those mobile versions up! Lea -- Phil Archer W3C Mobile Web Initiative http://www.w3.org/Mobile http://philarcher.org @philarcher1 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] FINAL VERSION OF MY SITE
Hi Marvin, On Wed, February 3, 2010 11:50 pm, Webb, KerryA wrote: You should check the Top of page links on the Recipes page. They each seem to go to the start of the previous recipe rather than to the top of the Web page. Kerry That is, you have links with duplicate link-text pointing to different anchors which contravenes accessibility standards. You already have the anchor a name=Top/a, so Top of page links should point to this, a href=#Top target=_topTop Of Page/a Stuart *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter!
I have a chicken - explain how to make it into an egg. On Sun, January 31, 2010 11:46 pm, Andrew Stewart wrote: Sorry to ask again, but please explain how the site could be made accessible whilst maintaining the same ease of use? On 1 Feb 2010, at 10:31, Thierry Koblentz wrote: From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Stewart Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:51 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter! http://www.google.com/finance?q=gbpaud I'm sorry, but this is a piece of garbage. They are removing outline on real links, but they leave it on elements that don't trigger any behavior via keyboard input. If they ignore such basics I don't expect the rest of the page to be much better. -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] vegetable page vallidation
yes On Wed, January 20, 2010 8:58 am, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. last page for this site. still getting errors. am i stupid or some thin. marvin. Markup Validation Service Check the markup (HTML, XHTML, .) of Web documents Jump To:Validation Output Errors found while checking this document as XHTML 1.0 Transitional! Result: 4 Errors File: Use the file selection box above if you wish to re-validate the uploaded file C:\Docs\Tafe\CertificateFourWebsites\CertFour\PrinciplesOfVisualDesign\PrinciplesOfVisualDesign\html\vegetable.html Encoding: iso-8859-1 (detect automatically) utf-8 (Unicode, worldwide) utf-16 (Unicode, worldwide) iso-8859-1 (Western Europe) iso-8859-2 (Central Europe) iso-8859-3 (Southern Europe) iso-8859-4 (North European) iso-8859-5 (Cyrillic) iso-8859-6-i (Arabic) iso-8859-7 (Greek) iso-8859-8 (Hebrew, visual) iso-8859-8-i (Hebrew, logical) iso-8859-9 (Turkish) iso-8859-10 (Latin 6) iso-8859-11 (Latin/Thai) iso-8859-13 (Latin 7, Baltic Rim) iso-8859-14 (Latin 8, Celtic) iso-8859-15 (Latin 9) iso-8859-16 (Latin 10) us-ascii (basic English) euc-jp (Japanese, Unix) shift_jis (Japanese, Win/Mac) iso-2022-jp (Japanese, email) euc-kr (Korean) gb2312 (Chinese, simplified) gb18030 (Chinese, simplified) big5 (Chinese, traditional) Big5-HKSCS (Chinese, Hong Kong) tis-620 (Thai) koi8-r (Russian) koi8-u (Ukrainian) iso-ir-111 (Cyrillic KOI-8) macintosh (MacRoman) windows-1250 (Central Europe) windows-1251 (Cyrillic) windows-1252 (Western Europe) windows-1253 (Greek) windows-1254 (Turkish) windows-1255 (Hebrew) windows-1256 (Arabic) windows-1257 (Baltic Rim) Doctype: XHTML 1.0 Transitional (detect automatically) HTML5 (experimental) XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Frameset HTML 4.01 Strict HTML 4.01 Transitional HTML 4.01 Frameset HTML 3.2 HTML 2.0 ISO/IEC 15445:2000 (ISO HTML) XHTML 1.1 XHTML + RDFa XHTML Basic 1.0 XHTML Basic 1.1 XHTML Mobile Profile 1.2 XHTML-Print 1.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0 plus SVG 1.1 MathML 2.0 SVG 1.0 SVG 1.1 SVG 1.1 Tiny SVG 1.1 Basic SMIL 1.0 SMIL 2.0 Root Element: html Root Namespace: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml The W3C validators rely on community support for hosting and development. Donate and help us build better tools for a better web. OptionsShow Source Show Outline List Messages Sequentially Group Error Messages by Type Validate error pages Verbose Output Clean up Markup with HTML Tidy Help on the options is available. ? Top Validation Output: 4 Errors Line 32, Column 6: document type does not allow element br here; assuming missing li start-tag br /? Line 34, Column 5: end tag for li omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified /ul? You may have neglected to close an element, or perhaps you meant to self-close an element, that is, ending it with / instead of . Line 32: start tag was here br / Line 47, Column 6: document type does not allow element br here; assuming missing li start-tag br /? Line 49, Column 5: end tag for li omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified /ul? You may have neglected to close an element, or perhaps you meant to self-close an element, that is, ending it with / instead of . Line 47: start tag was here br /? Top Home | About... | News | Docs | Help FAQ | Feedback | Contribute | This service runs the W3C Markup Validator, v0.8.5. Copyright © 1994-2009 W3C® (MIT, ERCIM, Keio), All Rights Reserved. W3C liability, trademark, document use and software licensing rules apply. Your interactions with this site are in accordance with our public and Member privacy statements. !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd; html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; head meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 / titleJoe's Vegetable Recipes Links Page/title link href=../styles/joe_style.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css / /head body a name=Top/a div id=wrapper div id=banner_new h1Joe's Vegetable Recipes Links Page/h1 br / br / img src=../images/fruit.jpg alt=Fruit / /div div id=navigation br / br / ul lia href=index.htmlHome/a/li lia href=produce.htmlAll Produce/a/li lia href=recipes.htmlRecipes/a/li lia href=staff.htmlStaff/a/li lia href=history.htmlHistory/a/li lia href=search.htmlSearch/a/li lia href=links.htmlFruit And Vegetable Links/a/li lia href=vegetable.htmlFruit And Vegetable Recipes/a/li lia href=copyright.htmlCopyright/a/li lia href=credits.htmlCredits/a/li br / br / /ul /div div id=main_content pClick on the links below to find other vegetable Recipe websites./p br / br / ul li a href=http://www.exclusivelyfood.com.au/2006/06/roast-vegetable-lasagne-recipe.html; target=_blankExclusively Food: Roast Vegetable Lasagne Recipe/a /li li a href=http://www.campbellsoup.com/select.aspx/product_popup.aspx?brand=...ebeefamp;prd_product_id=2376; target=_blankCampbell's Welcome -
Re: [WSG] font names problem in internet explorer
Hi Marvin,
I don't have any experience with screen-readers, but here is a suggestion.
It seems the only place you have defined a font is on body.
Maybe it just reads out the explicit attributes you give the header, as in
center.
Try defining the same font-family on the header, as well, to see if it
works then.
If that does not work, maybe it only reads out the header font-family if
it differs from the rest. Try defining a different font-family for the
headers.
Just an idea,
Stuart
On Sun, January 17, 2010 4:14 am, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
hi.
well tried fixing the error in the css.
but still not reading the font names.
just says centered.
and it is not a internet explorer problem or a jaws problem.
was able to go to a couple of sites.
use the insert f command in jaws which reads the font on the selected
element.
so wonder if my font names are all screwed or not right.
how to fix this.
please help me out.
when i was internet explorer 7, would read the font names.
but in internet explorer 8.
does not read it.
so some is screwing my code.
please help.
maybe got the font names not correctly coded.
will paste my style sheet below.
so it is some thing with my style sheet.
or maybe in the wrong place.
will copy and paste the code of my main page.
so you can see the location of where my style sheet is.
Marvin.
p.first:first-letter
{
text-transform:capitalize;
font-style: italic;
}
body
{
font: 100%/1.4 Helvetica Neue, Arial, sans-serif;
background: #fff;
}
.left { float: left; padding: 0 8px 8px 0; }
.clear {clear: left; }
h1
{
text-align: center;
}
h2
{
text-align: center;
}
a:link
{
color: #008000;
}
a:visited
{
color: #22bb22;
}
div#links a span
{
display: none;
}
div#links a:hover span
{
display: block;
position: absolute;
top: 350px;
left: 5px;
width: 100px;
text-decoration: none;
}
a:hover
{
background-color: #006400;
color: #FF;
}
a:active
{
color: #FF;
text-decoration: none;
}
#banner
{
text-align: center;
}
#content
{
margin-left: 10px;
margin-right:10px;
voice-family: \}\;
voice-family: inherit;
margin-left: 131px;
margin-right:131px;
}
body #content {
margin-left: 10px;
margin-right:10px;
}
#nav
{
position: absolute;
left: 10px;
top: 100px;
width: 100px;
text-align: center;
}
#wrapper { width: 960px; background-color: #fff; margin: 10px auto 0
auto;}
#banner_new { text-align: center; }
#navigation { margin: 10px; overflow: hidden;}
#navigation li { display:block; float:left; }
#navigation li a { display: block; float: left; background-image:
url('../../Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/images/nav_banana.png');
background-repeat: no-repeat; background-color: left;
background-attachment: scroll; padding-left: 32px;
padding-right: 16px; padding-top: 0; padding-bottom: 20px;
background-position: top }
#navigation li a { display:block; float:left; background: transparent;
padding: 0 16px 20px 0;}
#main_content { margin: 10px;}
.specials { float: left; width: 470px; height: 250px; }
.specials img {float: left; padding: 10px;}
#footer { margin: 10px; overflow: hidden; }
#footer li { display:block; float:left; }
#footer li a { display: block; float: left; background-image:
url('../../Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/images/nav_banana.png');
background-repeat: no-repeat; background-color: left;
background-attachment: scroll; padding-left: 32px;
padding-right: 16px; padding-top: 0; padding-bottom: 20px;
background-position: top }
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;
head
meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 /
titleJoe's Fruit and Vegetable Shop/title
link href=../styles/joe_style.css rel=stylesheet type=text/css /
/head
body
div id=wrapper
div id=banner_new
p a name=Top/a /p
h1Joe's Fruit and Vegetable Shop/h1
br
br
img src=../images/fruit.jpg alt=Fruit / /div
br
br
div id=navigation
br
br
ul
lia href=index.htmlHome/a/li
lia href=produce.htmlAll Produce/a/li
lia href=recipes.htmlRecipes/a/li
lia href=staff.htmlStaff/a/li
lia href=history.htmlHistory/a/li
lia href=search.htmlSearch/a/li
lia href=links.htmlFruit And Vegetable Links/a/li
lia href=vegetable.htmlFruit And Vegetable Recipes/a/li
lia href=copyright.htmlCopyright/a/li
lia href=credits.htmlCredits/a/li
br
br
/ul
div style=clear:both;/div
/div
div id=main_content
h2Today's Specials/h2
pPhone 1800-Joe-Fruit/p
hr /
div class=specials img src=../images/mango.jpg alt=Mango /
Re: [WSG] IE Issue
Why,oh why, don't people validate their code and remove their own errors before complaining about some browser or other doing it wrong. This is supposed to be Standards list. On Wed, January 13, 2010 2:34 am, stephanie campanella wrote: Hey Guys, I'm experiencing an issue with IEUn common i know. I've added a calculator (exe to html) to a web page and after adding the css/jscript associated with the calculator these things changed: 1) Tags have appeared differently ( h1/h3 ) 2)The page is now also justified left. 3) The ul menu across the top (resellers, licensees, support...) is also stacking like a set of stairs. I'm assuming the css is confused between to files and reading both or something. My main css file is biab.css Only IE is causing the major issues. Firefox, safari etc seem to be fine. My site's address is http://www.braininabox.com.au/coi.html Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Regards, Stephanie Campanella *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Using CSS to select a tag having an ID attribute: page served as application/xhtml+xml
It might be that xml requires lowercase only and that the problem is the
H in the id div_Heading.
On Thu, December 17, 2009 8:41 am, Grant Bailey wrote:
Hello,
I've recently started serving my web pages as xml pages using the MIME
type application/xhtml+xml rather than text/css as previously. This
works fine as my pages were already xhtml compliant, with one exception:
my external CSS stylesheets are no longer honoured by any browser to the
extent that they select ID attributes.
For example:
[XHTML]
div id=div_Heading
h1Survival: the basics/h1
/div
[CSS]
#div_Heading {
border: thin black solid;
}
If I serve my page as text/css the border appears as expected but when
the page is served as application/xhtml+xml, no border is visible. There
is only one ID named div_Heading in the document and the document itself
validates.
Could someone please advise me what might be going wrong as I have been
unable to find anything of assistance on the web or in the WSG forums.
Many thanks and regards,
Grant Bailey
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Re: [WSG] my final site
Hi Marvin, The semantics of the headers on your recipe page are wrong. Headers show the structure of the underlying document with the numbering indicating the position of importance and order. Thus, h1recipe nameh1 h2Ingredientsh2 h2Directionsh2 h3Country/h3 would relate the country, h3, to the previous recipe's h2 and h1 and not to the next recipe as you intend. On Wed, November 25, 2009 3:35 am, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. well take a look at this site. hopefully it is what everyone has been giving me advice. so hopefully this is the final version. http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ Marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] I.E Navigation help
What you're trying to do is alter the display of the native list structure
- not the links.
That is you want to display the list-items inline and floated left. (
e.g.
.navlist li {
display: inline;
float: left;
list-style-type: none;
}
On Wed, November 18, 2009 10:24 am, Jerome Carpen wrote:
hey guys,
Have got the following navigation to work in firefox, safari, chrome,
opera and the such, but not IE.
In IE, the links do not go inline but scale left to right in a step
manner.
Any ideas of what i'm missing?
==HTML
ul class=navlist
lia href=#Link1/a/li
lia href=#Link2/a/li
lia href=#Link3/a/li
lia href=#Link4/a/li
/ul
==CSS
#nav {
background-color: #930;
float: left;
width: 600px;
}
.navlist {
list-style-type: none;
}
.navlist li a {
font-family: Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif;
font-size: 24px;
color: #FFF;
text-decoration: none;
display: block;
float: left;
padding-right: 20px;
padding-left: 20px;
}
.navlist li a:hover {
color: #0F3;
}
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Re: [WSG] got some time to evaluate accessibility web resource?
A good start would be to validate your coding and correct the errors. On Mon, November 16, 2009 1:38 pm, Prisca schmarsow wrote: Hello everyone :) Would you be willing to evaluate a website which is a resource for web designers and developers on the topic of web accessibility and intellectual disability? Or ask other web professionals you know, who are interested in accessibility, to do this? Doing this involves: - Following INMD_09 on Twitter (http://twitter.com/INMD_09) for a limited time (from Wednesday 18 November to Friday 27 November) - Visiting the INMD site (www.inclusivenewmedia.org) and viewing its resources - Completing an online survey (which takes approximately 15 minutes) at the end of this process (Friday 27 November, or thereabouts). ABOUT THE SITE: People with intellectual disabilities are an extremely marginal group, whose web accessibility needs are poorly understood, and therefore often overlooked. Inclusive New Media Design (or INMD, www.inclusivenewmedia.org) addresses this problem, by providing web designers and developers with the resources and information they need to include this marginal group. The website includes animations which can be downloaded as MP4s viewed on the go, videos of intellectually disabled web users, pdf checklists of accessibility issues and potential solutions, information about people with intellectual disabilities and the types of assistive devices they use, twitter feeds and a blog on which to discuss the issues that the site addresses. Any help and input from you would be very much appreciated :) Thanks, Prisca *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Including a DIV element inside an HREF tag
Since links are inline elements, they shouldn't contain block elements, such as div and p. Why not use span (native) inline elements? You should then be able to use CSS to display them as you wish (including display: block if you want) using the classes you have ascribed. On Wed, November 4, 2009 12:39 pm, dionisis karampinis wrote: Hello to all! I would like your comments regarding the inclusion of a DIV, inside a Link tag. I need to make the following div element - 'linkable' , as such when the user hovers on it, to be able to follow a link to another page. e.g. a href=http://www.impelmedia.co.uk/index.php/services/design/; *div id=service1 p class=servicepMy Heading/p p class=summaryLorem ipsum text lorem ipsum text lorem ipsum text orem ipsum text lorem ipsum text orem ipsum text lorem ipsum text/p /div* /a Do you think this is a semantic way of structuring these elements or not ? And if not do you know if there are any other alternatives so i could perform the same functionality? Thanks in advance Regards Dionisis K *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] recovering file replace
I'd recommend backing files up. On Tue, October 20, 2009 2:57 am, Luke Hoggett wrote: Hi, Sorry you lost your file. As a precaution in the future I'd recommend installing some sort of version control e.g. svn can seem a bit daunting to install or overkill for 1-2 people but in the long run it is well worth it. cheers L Nour Alsafar wrote: Hi please if anyone can help me i have replaced my current file when moving it into the folder with an older one, and i don't know how to recover it back, i tried several softwares but none of them are helping me out, i'm so streesed i've been working on this flash files for day and now it's replaced with a very old old vr. please did anyone had the same thing and got their file recoved please help me i'm so desperate for a solution ASAP. Thanks all in advance Let us find your next place for you! Need a place to rent, buy or share? http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Luke Hoggett 0419 442 807 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE6 display issue
Apparently, placing the script at the bottom means it is not executed
until all the rest of the HTML has loaded, but not necessarily all the
images, while onload()only starts after everything on the page has loaded.
on
On Fri, October 9, 2009 11:18 am, Foskett, Mike wrote:
Try onload() event handler
Alternatively place the script at the bottom of the page?
mike
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone
Sent: 09 October 2009 11:00
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 display issue
Try onload() event handler, see:
http://javascript.about.com/library/bltut31.htm
On Fri, October 9, 2009
6:55 am, Western Web Design wrote:
Kepler Gelotte wrote:
In IE6, although the image fades and replaces etc, the #header is
enlarged to accommodate all 4 images though three remain hidden.
Hi,
I suspect that the javascript is executing before the page has fully
loaded
so the images are not able to be stacked by the javascript function.
To
make sure your page has fully loaded try using the document.ready
function
of jquery:
SCRIPT type=text/javascript
$(document).ready(function() {
$('#pics').cycle({
fx:'fade',
speed: 2500,
timeout: 5500,
random: 1,
pause: 1
});
});
/SCRIPT
If that still doesn't work, try moving the javascript after the
/body.
Have tried both to no avail. You sound like you are on the right track,
though. Thanks!
--
Lyn Smith
www.westernwebdesign.com.au
Affordable website design Perth WA
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Re: [WSG] IE6 display issue
Try onload() event handler, see:
http://javascript.about.com/library/bltut31.htm
On Fri, October 9, 2009
6:55 am, Western Web Design wrote:
Kepler Gelotte wrote:
In IE6, although the image fades and replaces etc, the #header is
enlarged to accommodate all 4 images though three remain hidden.
Hi,
I suspect that the javascript is executing before the page has fully
loaded
so the images are not able to be stacked by the javascript function.
To
make sure your page has fully loaded try using the document.ready
function
of jquery:
SCRIPT type=text/javascript
$(document).ready(function() {
$('#pics').cycle({
fx:'fade',
speed: 2500,
timeout: 5500,
random: 1,
pause: 1
});
});
/SCRIPT
If that still doesn't work, try moving the javascript after the /body.
Have tried both to no avail. You sound like you are on the right track,
though. Thanks!
--
Lyn Smith
www.westernwebdesign.com.au
Affordable website design Perth WA
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Re: [WSG] my site and mouse rollovers
Hi Marvin, I am interested in your angle on regarding the repeating alt attribute values in your menu, e.g. alt=Closed Banana. This would appear to be against basic WCAGC accessibility guidelines, and also totally unnecessary verbiage for the listener. What is your reasoning for doing this? On Tue, September 22, 2009 8:27 am, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. well not going to change the site a whole great deal. proud of this site i created for my course. and only changing the mouse rollovers. so if it looks great. let me know. it is at: http://startrekcafe.alacorncomputer.com cheers Marvin. ps: might be a few hours before my friend uploads it. as i cannot upload it and login into the ftp site. i get a internet cannot open this page. tried it in firefox and get the same problem. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Ordered List Best Practice
Perhaps you could use separate lists for each sub-heading then use the appropriate start value for each list. Using something similar to: http://www.arraystudio.com/as-workshop/make-ol-list-start-from-number-different-than-1-using-css.html (maybe an unordered list(definition list?) of subheadings with nested ordered lists) Just an idea. On Tue, September 22, 2009 3:40 pm, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: Hi, I have an ordered list that needs the items to be alphabetized and have lines in between the items that will be subheadings within the list BUT also need to NOT take a letter. Is there a best practice on trying to accomplish the desired look? (examples below) Here is the code with no validation issues but the two lines with Subheading will get a letter (not desired): ol type=A lia href=a.pdfFirst/a/li li div class=margin_left_minus_40px h3Subheading/h3 /div /li lia href=b.pdfFirst/a/li lia href=c.pdfFirst/a/li li div class=margin_left_minus_40px h3Subheading/h3 /div /li lia href=d.pdfFirst/a/li lia href=e.pdfFirst/a/li /ol In the following list I get the desired results in the browser but does not validate,(The tag:div is not allowed within: ol): ol type=A lia href=a.pdfFirst/a/li div class=margin_left_minus_40px h3Subheading/h3 /div lia href=b.pdfFirst/a/li lia href=c.pdfFirst/a/li div class=margin_left_minus_40px h3Subheading/h3 /div lia href=d.pdfFirst/a/li lia href=e.pdfFirst/a/li /ol I appreciate any advice, Kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] hr / or CSS3 Border Background
On Sun, August 9, 2009 3:53 am, tee wrote: ... However, seeing that HTML 5 has given hr tag a new purpose: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-hr-element http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#flow-content-0 quote: The hr element represents a paragraph-level thematic break, e.g. a scene change in a story, or a transition to another topic within a section of a reference book. So the decision is circumstantial, sometime you use hr, and sometimes use CSS 3 border background property. Then my question, what about those who prefer to stick with XHTML? The hr tag is deprecated. In gassho, tee When the hr tag is not used as a purely visual element (which is bad practice), it separates two distinct pieces of content but gives no information about their relationship. hr / deprecated in XHTML and the correct mark-up is to use a header which helps to help define that relationship. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Usability in Links
Hi, if the different links are in clearly defined different areas there should be little confusion, even with using the same colors reversed. If you mix them in the same menu, then there's obviously a problem of consistency of the meaning. However, what you should NOT do, from a usability point of view, is have an external link in the middle of the site navigation menu, i.e. a href=http://www.homelesschildrenamerica.org/; title=National Response id=dhtml_menu-262CAMPAIGN TO END CHILD HOMELESSNESS/a The link color scheme seems OK from a color-blindness accessibility angle, see: http://vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php?origUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.familyhomelessness.org%2FsimUrl=uploads%2F124800363616183sensorType=tritanope On Sat, July 18, 2009 11:09 pm, Bushidodeep wrote: Hi, Following is a link to the site in question. http://www.familyhomelessness.org/ On Jul 18, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: On Sat, 18 Jul 2009, Bushidodeep wrote: I've a client wishing to call attention to (2) a: links, in a vertical list by simply reversing with the hover color. The a:links are now the hover color value and the a:hover is now the a:link color value. After reviewing the change I found it conflicting with the surrounding a:links, so did some of my flat-mates used for usability testing. Would someone suggest a method that doesn't cause disharmony, or is it just nit-picking on our part? Use different colours. (And post a URL so we can see whether there really is a problem.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
sine qua non = indispensible On Thu, July 2, 2009 9:27 pm, Rick Faircloth wrote: It is the sine qua non of accessibility And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make...just addressing the font-size issue is the most basic form of accomodation possible. We can do better. On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson c...@freeshell.orgwrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Rick Faircloth wrote: But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to view? Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web more accessible...It's important to be able to see how something is said and with what supporting content and context, rather than just what is said. Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of accessiblity. It is the sine qua non of accessibility. It's not the only issue, but it is the most basic. Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution), and browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying and simple manner, rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers to spend countless hours trying to code around the issues. There is no issue to code around. The only issue is overspecifying sizes which leads to inaccessible pages. Less is more. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Henry Kissinger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] converting CSS and XHTML to PDFs
Try http://www.expresspdf.com/ConvertHtmlToPdf.aspx with page orientation set to LANDSCAPE. On Mon, March 30, 2009 2:30 pm, agerasimc...@unioncentral.com wrote: I have a problem converting my web pages, which are CSS driven into PDFs (users usually do Right Click - convert page to PDF) - they need to send those pages for client approval in the PDF format. The pages in PDF display very poorly, not all CSS images are displayed, CSS formatting is completely off... Does anybody have any idea, what's the best approach to tame the CSS pages and convert them to PDF? Thank you! Anya V. Gerasimchuk Web Designer, IT - Web Shared Services UNIFI Information Technology agerasimc...@unioncentral.com (513) 595 -2391 anthony.hawk...@ssc.govt.nz Sent by: li...@webstandardsgroup.org 02/01/2009 02:52 PM Please respond to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To wsg@webstandardsgroup.org cc Subject [WSG] WCAG2.0 summary Hi there - WebAim just released a good summarised guide to WCAG2, a lot easier for the newbie to get their head around. http://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: Who's responsible (was Re: [WSG] add to favorites?)
The point of the introduction of Web standards was so that user-agent manufacturers can create browsers that render them as intended by the designer. And that, yes, in 10 years time the browsers that exist then (whatever form they may take)will still render them as intended because they are written to those standards. That is not to say that the standards are fixed in stone and that the Web will not move forward, but rather that the standards we will move forward in a coherent way to create a better and better user experience (rather than the proprietary mess we had pre-standards). I.E., whilst moving to support Web standards, has to provide support for legacy sites coded to their earlier proprietary mess. On Thu, March 26, 2009 1:19 am, Rick Faircloth wrote: Wow...10 years from now...as fast as change occurs these days, who knows what things will be like then! Rick -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of nedlud Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:58 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: Who's responsible (was Re: [WSG] add to favorites?) As I understand this thread, it is not about whether current standards are right or wrong, but how did we end up with these standards in the first place? The current standards did not just spring into existence, fully formed, out of the brow of some greek god. The standards evolved as peoples understanding of the web evolved. And the web itself was evolving at the same time, just as it continues to do. Just as the standards will continue to evolve. I'm certainly not saying that I disagree with current web standards, just that it would be foolish to think that they are *definitive*. As professionals, it is our responsibility to be reflective practitioners: to question the status quo and make sure it's really working. We can't do that without asking questions, or without listening to people who ask questions. The web is still an incredibly young medium and anyone who imagines that the standards we have today will apply to the web of tomorrow (I'm thinking of about a 10 year away tomorrow) would be naive. L. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] add to favorites?
This list is aware of many marketing practices that are against Web Standards. On Wed, March 25, 2009 3:46 pm, Rick Faircloth wrote: No, previous arguments still miss the point. Having a button on a browser for booksmarks is not comparable to having a Bookmark this page link on the browser screen. The link on the page is in the field-of-focus of a site visitor, whereas the browser button is not, making the idea of bookmarking the site more likely to come to mind and therefore, acted upon. Also, the words, Bookmark this page are a call or prompt to action, whereas the simple existence of a button with Bookmark identifies the button, but offers no encouragement to the user to user the button. It's the difference between walking into a room with another door and see a sign that says, walk through this door, as opposed to just seeing the door. Both offer the opportunity to use the door, but the words walk through this door definitely causes the visitor to the room to consider using the door, whereas the simple existence of the door may be reacted to in multiple ways, including walking through the door, avoiding the door, and ignoring the door. Again, call-to-action, marketing concept which you may or may not understand. Rick From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Maben Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:18 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] add to favorites? On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Steve Green wrote: It's not just replicating browser functionality - it's a call to action. But the action you're calling for is indeed a replication of browser functionality. Calling something by another name does not change what it is. So previously stated arguments against doing it still stand. Andrew Maben www.andrewmaben.net and...@andrewmaben.com In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] add to favorites?
The Web Standards Group is for web designers developers who are interested in web standards (HTML, XHTML, XML, CSS, XSLT etc.) and best practices (accessible sites using valid and semantically correct code). We aim to: * Provide web developers and designers with a forum to discuss issues and share knowledge (via our discussion list and regular meetings) * Provide web standards information and assistance to developers * Promote web standards within the development community Source: http://webstandardsgroup.org/ On Wed, March 25, 2009 10:46 pm, Nathan de Vries wrote: On 26/03/2009, at 3:56 AM, Steve Green wrote: Is this list interested in discussing how to balance the conflicting requirements of various stakeholders (including marketers) or does it take the dogmatic position that compliance with web stardards trumps everything else? You've pretty much summed up the reason I constantly ask myself why I haven't unsubscribed from this list yet. To me, web standards evolve by taking something that works, recognising its' usefulness, and standardising it. In many cases, it's valid and necessary to use proprietary features of browsers in lieu of standardised features; whether it be using VML in one browser and SVG in another, Flash for uploading files to indicate upload progress, vendor-specific Javascript calls to add bookmarks, or IE's CSS filters for enabling transparent backgrounds. Pragmatic use of standard *and* proprietary features of browsers (with a preference towards standards) is my definition of someone who takes standards seriously. Surprisingly (and unfortunately for many users of their software), some of the more vocal on this list seem to disagree. Cheers, Nathan de Vries *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 Released!
possibly something to do with:
#websemantics a {display:none}
producing an empty h1/h1 ?
On Fri, March 13, 2009 10:33 am, Foskett, Mike wrote:
An excellent tool.
I'm intrigued as to why this code would flag an error:
titleWelcome to siteName - blah blah blah/title
...
h1a href=/siteName/a/h1
...
h1Welcome yada yada yada/h1
Live page: http://websemantics.co.uk/
Test result page report:
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/report/11ffbe32e288ea27/page/1/nav/
I'm very happy that it's the only error though.
Will use this tool to check through the rest of the site when time's
available,
Regards
Mike Foskett
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Gunderson
Sent: 12 March 2009 14:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0
Released!
The Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 (FAE) has been
released with new and updated accessibility rules based on the iCITA
Best Practices [1 to help web developers create HTML resources that
are usable by people with disabilities.
FAE is a free service provided by the University of Illinois as a
public service to support the creation of functionally accessible web
resources to comply with Section 508 [2] and W3C Web Content
Accessibility Guidelines [3] requirements .
New reporting features let you archive up to 5 reports for as long as
you want and as always you can still send URLs of web accessibility
reports to developers and administrators for review without them
needed to create an account.
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu
Sign up for your new FREE account at:
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/accounts/register/
Signing up for an account will let you test entire websites, instead
of just one web page.
NOTE: If you had an account on the old version of FAE you will need to
create a NEW account on FAE 1.0. The new version of FAE uses a
different web application framework than the previous system and we
were not able to migrate the old database.
Information about new FAE features at:
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/about/versions/
References
1. iCITA HTML Best Practices
http:/fae.cita.uiuc.edu
2. Section 508 Information Technology Accessibility Standards
http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/standards.htm
3. W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG
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RE: [WSG] Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 Released!
Err... sorry about my initial confusion - I've had a long day. Perhaps, The text content of each h1 element should match all or part of the title content. means that ALL the h1 text content, Welcome - work, you're welcome to it should match PART of the title content - which of course it doesn't, since you have PART of the h1 matching PART of the title. Try removing the tagline so it just reads Welcome and test again. Another interesting experiment might be to add the tagline to the title, say (for example), titleWelcome to webSemantics - work, you're welcome to it - Rich, usable, engaging and accessible solutions/title (for example) and see if you can pass the test with the h1 content matching with a combination of two parts of the title. On Fri, March 13, 2009 10:33 am, Foskett, Mike wrote: An excellent tool. I'm intrigued as to why this code would flag an error: titleWelcome to siteName - blah blah blah/title ... h1a href=/siteName/a/h1 ... h1Welcome yada yada yada/h1 Live page: http://websemantics.co.uk/ Test result page report: http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/report/11ffbe32e288ea27/page/1/nav/ I'm very happy that it's the only error though. Will use this tool to check through the rest of the site when time's available, Regards Mike Foskett -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jon Gunderson Sent: 12 March 2009 14:07 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 Released! The Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 (FAE) has been released with new and updated accessibility rules based on the iCITA Best Practices [1 to help web developers create HTML resources that are usable by people with disabilities. FAE is a free service provided by the University of Illinois as a public service to support the creation of functionally accessible web resources to comply with Section 508 [2] and W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines [3] requirements . New reporting features let you archive up to 5 reports for as long as you want and as always you can still send URLs of web accessibility reports to developers and administrators for review without them needed to create an account. http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu Sign up for your new FREE account at: http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/accounts/register/ Signing up for an account will let you test entire websites, instead of just one web page. NOTE: If you had an account on the old version of FAE you will need to create a NEW account on FAE 1.0. The new version of FAE uses a different web application framework than the previous system and we were not able to migrate the old database. Information about new FAE features at: http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/about/versions/ References 1. iCITA HTML Best Practices http:/fae.cita.uiuc.edu 2. Section 508 Information Technology Accessibility Standards http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/standards.htm 3. W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 Released!
but then you wouldn't have,
# Each h1 element must have text content.
# Pass
Perhaps its the other h1 and
The text content of each h1 element should match all or part of the title
content.
means that ALL it's text content,
Welcome - work, you're welcome to it
should match part of the title content (which of course it doesn't).
Try removing the tagline so it just reads Welcome and test again.
On Sat, March 14, 2009 12:35 am, Stuart Foulstone wrote:
possibly something to do with:
#websemantics a {display:none}
producing an empty h1/h1 ?
On Fri, March 13, 2009 10:33 am, Foskett, Mike wrote:
An excellent tool.
I'm intrigued as to why this code would flag an error:
titleWelcome to siteName - blah blah blah/title
...
h1a href=/siteName/a/h1
...
h1Welcome yada yada yada/h1
Live page: http://websemantics.co.uk/
Test result page report:
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/report/11ffbe32e288ea27/page/1/nav/
I'm very happy that it's the only error though.
Will use this tool to check through the rest of the site when time's
available,
Regards
Mike Foskett
-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On
Behalf Of Jon Gunderson
Sent: 12 March 2009 14:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0
Released!
The Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator 1.0 (FAE) has been
released with new and updated accessibility rules based on the iCITA
Best Practices [1 to help web developers create HTML resources that
are usable by people with disabilities.
FAE is a free service provided by the University of Illinois as a
public service to support the creation of functionally accessible web
resources to comply with Section 508 [2] and W3C Web Content
Accessibility Guidelines [3] requirements .
New reporting features let you archive up to 5 reports for as long as
you want and as always you can still send URLs of web accessibility
reports to developers and administrators for review without them
needed to create an account.
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu
Sign up for your new FREE account at:
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/accounts/register/
Signing up for an account will let you test entire websites, instead
of just one web page.
NOTE: If you had an account on the old version of FAE you will need to
create a NEW account on FAE 1.0. The new version of FAE uses a
different web application framework than the previous system and we
were not able to migrate the old database.
Information about new FAE features at:
http://fae.cita.uiuc.edu/about/versions/
References
1. iCITA HTML Best Practices
http:/fae.cita.uiuc.edu
2. Section 508 Information Technology Accessibility Standards
http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/standards.htm
3. W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG
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The
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Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire
EN8
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Re: [WSG] a WCAG 2.0 question
No contradiction. WCAG 2.0 Recommendation is the normative document. Not all techniques can be used or would be effective in all situations. Therefore, any particular TECHNIQUE is not REQUIRED for conformance. That is to say, if you have some other technique that meets the WCAG recommendation you can use that instead. On Thu, March 12, 2009 6:58 am, Glen Wallis wrote: Hello all I am interested to know whether the people on this list consider opening a new window without alerting the user to be a failure to conform to Success Criterion 3.2.2 of WCAG 2.0. The success criterion is as follows: 3.2.2 On Input: Changing the setting of any user interface component does not automatically cause a change of context unless the user has been advised of the behaviour before using the component. (Level A) The key phrases, I believe are user interface component and change of context. I looked up the definitions of both phrases. The glossary states quite clearly that a link is a user interface component and that a change of context includes opening a new window. However, the document Understanding SC 3.2.2 says Additional Techniques (Advisory) for 3.2.2 Although not required for conformance, the following additional techniques should be considered in order to make content more accessible. Not all techniques can be used or would be effective in all situations. * Giving users advanced warning when opening a new window. (future link) This seems like a contradiction. The WCAG 2.0 Recommendation is the only normative document, so it should take precedence over the Understanding document. However, the Understanding document specifically states that warning the user is not required for conformance. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
Which IS semantic and separates content (the link) from presentation (a button). On Mon, February 23, 2009 10:56 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: Thanks for all the discussion so far. It seems I'll have to re-code. I will definitely not be using Javascript. It seems entirely logical to me that there should be such a thing as a button, which can exist outside a form, which has an HREF attribute or can be wrapped in an anchor. Why? All you need do is style the anchor element. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] IE and the button element
Which IS semantic and separates content (the link) from presentation (a button). On Mon, February 23, 2009 10:56 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, John Horner wrote: Thanks for all the discussion so far. It seems I'll have to re-code. I will definitely not be using Javascript. It seems entirely logical to me that there should be such a thing as a button, which can exist outside a form, which has an HREF attribute or can be wrapped in an anchor. Why? All you need do is style the anchor element. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] URL naming best practice guide? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Possibly http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990321.html On Fri, February 20, 2009 3:25 am, Chris Vickery wrote: Thanks. Not really what I'm looking for. I know the principals myself... I'm looking for a site, a guide... something more substantive or with some authority. If it's in relatively plain English, even better. It's for my manager. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris F.A. Johnson Sent: Friday, 20 February 2009 1:29 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] URL naming best practice guide? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Chris Vickery wrote: Does anyone know where I could find a best practice guide to naming URLs? We're trying to keep our URLs descriptive like... www.whatever.com/news/events/index.html but not like this... www.whatever.com/news articles/Events Sent from m...@me.com/my.file I need it to pass on to a manager. Use POSIX portable file names. That is, filenames that contain only letters, numbers, hyphens, periods and underscores and which do not begin with a hyphen. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com = Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** WARNING: The information contained in this email may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or copying of any part of this information is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, we apologise for any inconvenience and request that you notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email, together with any attachments. *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility testing
Also take account of results in published surveys of actual users. For example, see screen-reader user survey: http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey/ On Sat, February 14, 2009 11:35 pm, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: On 11/2/09 05:59, Henrik Madsen wrote: What similar software / online systems do people use and get reliable results (if reliable results are indeed attainable)? Define reliable results. :) Such systems are intrinsically limited in what they can test. If your contract requires you to pass checks with this piece of software, fine, but beyond that I recommend using wetware as well as software: imagining about the user experience for different user groups [1-2], thinking through the application of accessibility guidelines to your site [3-5], code reviewing your code line-by-line with fellow developers, and if at all possible testing the final product with people with disabilities [6-7]. [1] http://www.uiaccess.com/accessucd/ [2] http://delicious.com/benjaminhawkeslewis/howPeopleWithDisabilitiesUseTheWeb?sort=alphaorder=asc [3] http://www.section508.gov/ [4] http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ [5] http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php [6] http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/26-accessibility-testing/#usertesting [7] http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_seeitrightaudit.hcsp -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Link issue
Mmm.. something strange happening with line spacing, cursor positioning or something in this column. If you try and block (as in block and paste) a piece of text you actually have to move the cursor along the line above. Weird??? This could mean that you can never actually position the cursor over the link to activate it. On Fri, February 6, 2009 11:53 pm, Kristine Cummins wrote: Hi all: I'm having a strange link issue where three links in the content area are not linking and the code is valid. Each link is assigned with a class. Either I'm having a brain fart, or something strange is going on. It's probably a brain fart at this point. Any help appreciated. Page with link issue: http://www.richardvonsaal.com/about.html --Kristine *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Link issue
Another clue... If you position the text cursor (as opposed to the mouse cursor) on the text just before a link... then use the right-arrow key to move this cursor over the link... then the link works as it should. On Fri, February 6, 2009 11:53 pm, Kristine Cummins wrote: Hi all: I'm having a strange link issue where three links in the content area are not linking and the code is valid. Each link is assigned with a class. Either I'm having a brain fart, or something strange is going on. It's probably a brain fart at this point. Any help appreciated. Page with link issue: http://www.richardvonsaal.com/about.html --Kristine *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Users who deliberately disable JavaScript
See: http://accessites.org/site/2007/02/graceful-degradation-progressive-enhancement/4/ On Fri, January 30, 2009 12:29 pm, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: Agreed - people certainly aren't getting any smarter as far as web technologies go. Particuarly as the web is now viewed as a common commodity that virtually everyone has access to. In the old days, it was more or less used exclusively by tech savvy users; it was very far from the plug and play service it is now. Unless an automated system is switching off javascript for the end user, from my experience the vast user base of the common population isn't going to actively go into settings and make a conscious effort to switch it off. The vast majority don't even know what it is. I, for one, will carry on designing sites on the basis that the chances of someone using a javascript disabled browser stumbling across me is minimal. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of David Dixon Sent: 26 January 2009 22:50 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Users who deliberately disable JavaScript Again, can you show that the small decline in IE's market share has contributed to users blocking Javascript or using specific Firefox extensions? IE has had plugins such as the Web Accessibility Toolbar etc for some years now that allow disabling of Javascript very easily, so why would the usage of another browser and additional extensions change this? People do change their viewing habits all the time, and migrations between browsers will continue (whether to IE detriment or not), it doesn't mean people are getting smarter or that they are concerned at all about Javascript (im sure the security concerns over IE6/7 that have talked about over in the mainstream news networks over the past couple of years have had nothing to do with Javascript, and are far more related to Microsoft's proprietary ActiveX functionality). If memory serve's, the people are getting smarter observation has been stated on this mailing list since its inception, and we've yet to see any evidence of this. David David Lane wrote: Agreed - the level of savvy of most user is absurdly low, and at present few will know what Javascript is, much less how to disable it. The question is whether people today design for today's users, or tomorrow's... The trend will continue towards more sophisticated users, using better browsers (i.e. not IE) which support useful plugins like NoScript and their analogues for Opera, Webkit, etc. I suspect as more and more people get burned by identity theft and other forms of exploitation, the pain individuals experience will provide a strong motivation for learning. Also, organisations will increasingly make that decision on behalf of their users to minimise their own risk... Cheers, Dave *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Microformats Accessibility
I think it's a clash between microformats VS html AND accessibility standards. On Mon, January 19, 2009 12:48 am, Ben Rowe wrote: on microformats.org, it suggests the ABBR element and title attribute for machine code. however, title attribute for this element will be read out to a screen reader user. we are considering having an output of span class=namehuman valuespan class=value title=machine value/span/span however its an empty span. this method of empty spans is also suggested on microformats.org to combat accessibility issues, but wanted your suggestions / thoughts? Obviously it is a clash of HTML standards VS accessibility. I've chosen the span option because I think accessibility is more important. Ben *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Examples of great high-school websites?
As I said - the coding errors. On Sat, January 17, 2009 8:03 pm, Rick Faircloth wrote: What did you find to be so bad about the site, Stuart? -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Examples of great high-school websites? Perhaps the students should code the site - they couldn't do much worse! On Fri, January 16, 2009 7:00 pm, Fred Ballard wrote: Take a look at Sullivan High School's http://www.sullivanhs.org/. As you can see in the homepage's lower right corner it's from the Chicago Public Schools, http://www.cps.k12.il.us/, with a company, Educational Networks, http://www.educationalnetworks.net/, behind it. Is it too slick? I'm of two minds. It's great that it's a good-looking site, but it might be nice to let the students be the designers. I don't actually know what the students think about it, on the other hand. Fred On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM, David Lane d...@egressive.com wrote: Oops - should've been Disclosure rather than Disclaimer :) On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:21 +1300, David Lane wrote: Disclaimer: I've had occasional association with the work being done at Hagley, and have been a guest speaker to the computing students on a couple occasions :) -- David Lane = Egressive Ltd = d...@egressive.com = m:+64 21 229 8147 p:+64 3 963 3733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents http://egressive.com we only use open standards: http://w3.org Effusion Group Founding Member === http://effusiongroup.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Examples of great high-school websites?
Perhaps the students should code the site - they couldn't do much worse! On Fri, January 16, 2009 7:00 pm, Fred Ballard wrote: Take a look at Sullivan High School's http://www.sullivanhs.org/. As you can see in the homepage's lower right corner it's from the Chicago Public Schools, http://www.cps.k12.il.us/, with a company, Educational Networks, http://www.educationalnetworks.net/, behind it. Is it too slick? I'm of two minds. It's great that it's a good-looking site, but it might be nice to let the students be the designers. I don't actually know what the students think about it, on the other hand. Fred On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:29 PM, David Lane d...@egressive.com wrote: Oops - should've been Disclosure rather than Disclaimer :) On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 15:21 +1300, David Lane wrote: Disclaimer: I've had occasional association with the work being done at Hagley, and have been a guest speaker to the computing students on a couple occasions :) -- David Lane = Egressive Ltd = d...@egressive.com = m:+64 21 229 8147 p:+64 3 963 3733 = Linux: it just tastes better = nosoftwarepatents http://egressive.com we only use open standards: http://w3.org Effusion Group Founding Member === http://effusiongroup.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] SEO and Flash
If the text in Flash is accessible SEs will index it. Search robots are in effect blind readers. If text in Flash is accessible, screen readers can read it. However, sensible screen-reader users disable Flash. On Wed, January 14, 2009 7:21 pm, Christie Mason wrote: It seems that SEs are beginning to index text in Flash. Maybe the same will be true of screen readers, some day. http://www.seochat.com/c/a/Search-Engine-Optimization-Help/Search-Engine-Ind exing-for-Flash-Websites-is-Improving/#?kc=EWKNLINF01142009STR5 Christie Mason *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
I was not using the term standards in the sense of a standards to be met
then everything is OK, but as a collective of best practices.
Web standards in the sense that I meant it, means designing with usability
and accessibility in mind.
Valid code is a pre-requisite to this.
Usability is the next step - e.g. don't use something that is consistently
in the top ten list of things that users hate; do use something that
usability studies have found to be helpful features.
Accessibility is an extension of usability to include non-standard ways of
browsing the web.
Complying with WCAG is step towards accessibility. Careful consideration
has to be given how one applies WCAG meaningfully.
Research has shown that Websites meeting WCAG were still found difficult
to use by disabled users - mainly because of a lack of consideration to
basic standards of usability.
Designing using these approaches is what I meant by designing to standards.
On Tue, December 2, 2008 8:07 pm, Joe Ortenzi wrote:
standards compliance should not be confused with WCAG conformance.
HTML is a standard WCAG is a guidance that people use as if it were a
standard, which could easily be a standard but is effectively not
one. However, complying with WCAG confers added benefits which
standards compliance creators strive for.
On 29/11/2008, at 09:22 , Stuart Foulstone wrote:
It may validate, but valid code is just a pre-requisite to achieving
standards compliance.
On Fri, November 28, 2008 8:43 pm, Dave Hall wrote:
On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 13:07 +, Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Blinking text is against standards in itself, so how can you do it
in a
standards compliant way?
Using the sample I posted - see below. That validates.
Cheers
Dave
On Fri, November 28, 2008 10:45 am, Dave Hall wrote:
!-- ... --
head
style type=text/css
/* ... */
.blink{
text-decoration: blink;
}
/* ... */
/style
!-- ... --
/head
body
!-- ... --
span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
!-- ... --
/body
instead of
!-- ... --
blinkmy blinking test/blink
!-- ... --
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+61 (0)434 047 804
http://www.typingthevoid.com
http://twitter.com/wheelyweb
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jortenzi
Skype:wheelyweb
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Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
Blinking text is against standards in itself, so how can you do it in a
standards compliant way?
On Fri, November 28, 2008 10:45 am, Dave Hall wrote:
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 23:11 -0600, Brett Patterson wrote:
What Dave?
I was simply illustrating how to make text blink in a standards
compliant way. You never know someone might find such information
useful one day. The example I provided would allow them to avoid using
the ugly non standard blink
Cheers
Dave
PS this wasn't supposed to be taken as advocating the use of blinking text
:)
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Dave Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 10:18 +, David Dorward wrote:
Brett Patterson wrote:
Where could I find a good information site about the
document.images.imageId script line, please?
http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-DOM-Level-1-19981001/level-one-html.html#ID-26809268
And if you are trying to code using codes such as
http://www.kirupa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217502
Just an example. A quick search to find.
A quick search can also find out how to use blink tags and
tables for
layout. That is a good example of worst practises.
Yes we all know that you should always use
!-- ... --
head
style type=text/css
/* ... */
.blink{
text-decoration: blink;
}
/* ... */
/style
!-- ... --
/head
body
!-- ... --
span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
!-- ... --
/body
instead of
!-- ... --
blinkmy blinking test/blink
!-- ... --
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Re: [WSG] the Name attribute
It may validate, but valid code is just a pre-requisite to achieving
standards compliance.
On Fri, November 28, 2008 8:43 pm, Dave Hall wrote:
On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 13:07 +, Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Blinking text is against standards in itself, so how can you do it in a
standards compliant way?
Using the sample I posted - see below. That validates.
Cheers
Dave
On Fri, November 28, 2008 10:45 am, Dave Hall wrote:
!-- ... --
head
style type=text/css
/* ... */
.blink{
text-decoration: blink;
}
/* ... */
/style
!-- ... --
/head
body
!-- ... --
span class=blinkmy blinking test/span
!-- ... --
/body
instead of
!-- ... --
blinkmy blinking test/blink
!-- ... --
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Re: [WSG] Strange character encoding issue
Hi, could used named ampersand character codes. http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/text/specialcharacters.html eg lsquo;SOAPrsquo; On Wed, November 19, 2008 4:05 pm, James Jeffery wrote: Never had a problem with character encodings on web pages, but since I reinstalled the OS on my iMac I have had an issue. Some of my characters, especially when using ' seem to mess up. This is the page, content and layout are simple as it's for a uni assignment: http://mi-linux.wlv.ac.uk/~0802390/overview.html Check out the overview.html page, and notice the issues. There is one noticeable in the overview page âSOAPâ Any ideas? (for those interested I do plan to publish a website regarding the Semantic Web shortly). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] labels as input wrappers + h6 in place of legend
Actually, the label tag wrapped around form input is the old traditional method. The for attribute method was introduced later to allow designers greater flexibility in positioning/styling forms whilst maintaining accessibility. On Fri, October 17, 2008 12:53 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you everyone for your replies. So it seems the trusty old traditional filedset llegendContact Information/legend label for=nameName/labelbr / input id=name type=text /fieldset is the way to go to keep all browsers and screen readers happy. I think I can likely lose the br / and replace that with a display: block; on the label or input. This is the first of a series of questions I will have. I have the opportunity to rewrite some extremely complex forms for a very large CMS and I want to make them the best they can be. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:07:33 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [WSG] labels as input wrappers + h6 in place of legend Hi Ben, I've always used label arount input fields [...] I don't think I've ever seen any recommendation against it. Here's one for you: http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=254 I haven't been paying attention to this, and someone's probably already said it (if so, sorry), but it's also worth noting that only form elements will be read in a screen reader's forms mode. Being as such, it's better to style the legend to look like an h6 rather than substituting it for one. Respectfully, Mike Cherim *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible menu lists - using the pipe character as separator?
Hi, Early screen-readers were not very good at differentiating links and would run together the text of two adjacent links so it was necessary to use a separator character. The vertical line (pipe) became the preferred character to separate adjacent links because, whilst it is quite verbose - the screen reader reads it as vertical line - this character is not used for very much else and so reduces any possible confusion with other text. (When I first started out in web design, I too thought this continual repetition of vertical line would be annoying but was assured by a screen-reader user that it was preferable to confusion otherwise). Thus, this separator was not merely a visual cue but vital for separating links from each other. That said, modern screen-readers are much better at differentiating between links and so screen-reader user's need this device much less. Additionally, improvements in CSS have led to best practice in web design increasingly placing navigation menus in lists. On Sat, September 27, 2008 3:24 pm, Daisy Morgan wrote: Hello all I can't seem to find a definitive answer on this via Google - is it best practice to use something like the pipe character ( | ) to separate links in a menu so that screenreader software pauses between the list items? Any recommended articles dealing with accessible menus in general? Daisy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites
Section 508 is a minimum standard required for Websites of US Government contractors, etc. and so has been adopted by many other Websites too. It is not law, as such. Disability Discrimination legislation in Europe, the US and Oceania are all very similar and require Website owners to take reasonable steps to ensure their sites are accessible by disabled users. The WCAG standards are the ones expected to be used in any law suits as a test of accessibility. The legislation doesn´t specify a level of accessibility, just that reasonable steps are taken, which is why there have not been too many prosecutions. The test of reasonableness is vague and what is reasonable for a large corporation to do may not be reasonable for a small business. On Sun, August 17, 2008 3:18 pm, tee wrote: Thanks for the info, Elizabeth. Aussie members in this list must be very proud of this law :-) Let's just hope no gold-digger lawyer sees an opportunity there! Is the requirement for this law higher per WCAG guidelines (A, AA, or AAA)? For example, Section 508 is really low standard in my opinion. tee On Aug 15, 2008, at 9:07 PM, Elizabeth Spiegel wrote: Hi Tee In Australia, websites are covered by Disability Discrimination legislation, although there has only been one successful suit to date. Bruce Maguire was awarded damages of $20,000 against SOCOG in 2000: full details here: http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/decisions/comdec/2000/DD000120.htm Note that the target was not by any measure a 'small business'. HREOC provides advisory notes http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/standards/www_3/www_3.html *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
A list is the most appropriate for a list. The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used - when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be. If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't call it one. If you want to use a table, call it a table. Not using a list when a list is appropriate is just as bad as not using a table when a table is appropriate. On Mon, August 11, 2008 9:31 am, silky wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? use a table. those that say 'never use tables' are insane and often think that 'css' and 'tables' are mutually exclusive. i ignore those people. tables are perfectly appropriate for this situation. Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James -- silky http://www.themonkeynet.com/armada/ http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ http://www.themonkeynet.com/ http://lets.coozi.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote: Disagree. ... Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name, the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage (100%). You could easily say its a list of students grades, because it is, but you are not going to put that into a list because it would be wrong to. You could easily say its a list, but it's not. It's a table of related student data in which comparisons are made across the rows and down the columns. One compares across the rows for each student's results (expected, actual and percentage) and compares down columns for differences between students. Much more than a list. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
If it's not a field it shouldn't be in a fieldset - which is a set of fields. On Thu, August 7, 2008 10:07 am, Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, This is one I've never been sure of; should the submit button be in a seperate fieldset, or should it even be in a fieldset at all because it is not a group of fields; it's a button on it's own. I usually put groups of fields in a fieldset, then have the submit button on it's own outside of the fieldsets. Would like to know what everyone else does?! For example: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ /fieldset input type=submit/ /form As opposed to: form fieldset labelSearch/label input type=text value=/ input type=submit/ /fieldset /form Any thoughts?! Cheers Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Correct markup of fieldset
-- Stuart Foulstone. On Fri, August 8, 2008 11:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my mind, one of the most pressing questions that needs to be answered in any particular case is: How is the fieldset labelled? If it specifically says something like 'postcode' or maybe 'contact details', and is one of a collection of fieldsets, then the button should probably be outside. If the form is simpler, the fieldset is un-labelled, generically labelled, or the only fieldset, then there is no advantage to moving the submit button outside of the fieldset. Of course, what would be best would be a quick study of what actual screen-readers speak in these cases - does the closing of a fieldset lead the user to believe that is the end of the form? Fieldsets separate related input fields into different sets for ease of comprehension. The closing of a fieldset leads the user to expect another fieldset, a lone input field or a submit button. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Appropriate postings
I have no problem with elementary questions about Web standards. But there are perhaps too many posts about how to write basic HTML mark-up and elementary CSS. This is especially true when the 'poster' has apparently not even tried to validate it (and, therefore, not seriously tried to solve the problem themselves). Should we not, at least, expect a list contributor to know the basics of HTML and CSS, for example. At the other end of the scale, there are sometimes posts which seem to be more about how to 'work around' Web standards to achieve a particular design rather than DESIGN to Web Standards in the first place (usually a knock-on effect due to graphic designers pretending to be Web designers). On Tue, August 5, 2008 10:00 pm, Jody Tate wrote: I'm a lurker on the list, but primarily because the list, so far, has seemed like a place where people come for help solving specific, remedial problems with long-standing (in internet-time) solutions well-documented on the internet and in books. On 8/5/08 11:10 AM, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I would like to know what a list on any subject is for if not for helping people understand the most basic principles and application of a give practice. A list on any topic must embrace all level of participants, beginners and advanced, alike. If we think of the list as a classroom, a teaching environment, then it's standard practice to have separate beginning, advanced, etc. classes. At the university level, for example (in the US), classes at the 100 level tackle different issues than classes at the 200, 300 and 400 level. A list on a topic isn't required to embrace all levels of expertise. I've participated in many mailings lists where some requests for basic help were considered off-topic. Requests for help when answers can be found by via searches or reading books were often seen as inappropriate. I'd advocate (at the risk of sounding snobby), as some have suggested, for different lists--one to accommodate beginners and another to accommodate other developers interested, not in help with standards, but in the standards themselves. Anyone who thinks a list about web standards should not first have as its mission to teach and clarify the basics of the tools of standardization, such as CSS, is mistaken. Unless expressly stated, a list must cater to the lowest common denominator of its participants, not the highest. By doing so, those on the bottom are lifted up, instead of always being pushed down and kept in the dark. To think a list about web standards doesn't need to have teaching as its first mission is not mistaken, it's considering that a different goal or multiple goals might be acceptable. Web standards are not new, though they may be new to some list users. Teaching can be a function, but if helping others with the basics is its sole function, as it's becoming here, it neglects another portion of the list's members, those who have been using web standards since their inception and hope to have extended discussions about, for example, XHTML vs. HTML5, CSS3, current and upcoming browser implementation of standards, emerging standards and so on. -jody -- Jody Tate http://staff.washington.edu/jtate/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: IE6 support - was - Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
Another problem is that there are organisations which still have large investments in a legacy O/S (MS included) on which IE7/8 cannot run. So it's not just a time issue for downloading the browser, but upgrading to a new O/S. On Mon, August 4, 2008 8:03 am, James Ellis wrote: Hi Not wanting to hijack the PNG thread, so I've altered the subject. I understand the issues involve in huge migrations, it's not that easy.. especially if your systems have a vested interest in some piece of obsolete technology.. but there are two things that strike me as odd here - - IE7 has been around for about 2 years now. It takes about 10 minutes to install IE7 on the desktop (I did one yesterday). 2 employees shouldn't be that difficult ? - the last time I worked in a big corporate environment, upgrades happened with a zap disk - either by choice or because the OS became unusable. The zap would boot up the PC and download an image to the machine, installing the image. A fresh new windows in about 30 minutes. So, time isn't obviously an issue - I think it's more the tying of an application to one browser -- if it's for internal use that's a special case that probably doesn't apply to general public web use. Get enough people hammering on the door and somethings gotta give, I say ;) Cheers James On Monday 04 August 2008 15:54:41 Phillips, Wendy wrote: I would agree. When you have over 20,000 employees and multiple legacy systems, upgrading an OS is a really big deal and you will always be behind the pack. Staff don't have the choice or ability to upgrade. WP -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lewis, Matthew Sent: Monday, 4 August 2008 2:05 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue? as to say look at the theory of developing specifics for IE6. There is a gaining movement around to start phasing out IE6 support - look at 37signals, I think they begin IE6 phase out this week or next. They've done their maths and taken a gamble. Hopefully it'll spark something. [snip...] In the end, do you want to spend hours developing hacks for IE6 or just nicely push people into an upgrade path? OT and not much to do with IE6 .png solutions but instead, the ongoing support of IE6 aspect of this thread. I was advised by a lesser Microsoft management bot that many corporate organisations have a 'latest minus one' policy, which means only running up to the previous version of any current browser. This will hopefully mean that when IE8 is fully released many corporate techs will then upgrade to IE7, ideally resulting in a bulk upgrade of the costly IE6. I hope this has some truth. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl question
A dl is a LIST of definition terms and their description. dt is a definition term to be described (not title). dd is description of the definition term. See http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 On Mon, August 4, 2008 4:20 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one or many dd's. But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's in the one dl Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate practicebut does it make sense?!?! Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt?? __ Christian Fagan Fagan Design fagandesign.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Select for menus
A drop down list with a Go button is better than a jump menu for accessibility standards. If a user [can't use a mouse and] has to use the arrow keys for navigating the menu you will find that jump menus tend to open the second option automatically (i.e. when the user first uses the arrow key) and this prevents the user from selecting the option they want. On Tue, July 22, 2008 8:03 pm, Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote: As far as I am aware the select option on a drop down list use's Javascript to make it into a jump menu. If you want to cater to the wider audience I would say using ul and CSS would be a much better option. Maybe have the jump menu but have the javascript de-grade if a users haven't got it and show a drop down menu with CSS? Just an idea. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rochester oliveira Sent: 22 July 2008 19:46 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Select for menus Hi, I'm working on a job for a Brazilian university, and we should put on the page a menu with links for others government websites. See an example : http://www.radiobras.gov.br/estatico/ the yellow bar in the top have a select menu. Should I use ul or follow the other sites and use the select? -- []'s - Rochester Oliveira Web Designer Itajubá - MG - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release Date: 22/07/2008 06:00 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Form (layout/accessibiity)
Incidentally, the second part of the postcode should have maxlength=3
(it is always three characters long).
On Wed, July 9, 2008 9:49 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have created a form which acts as a interface to a system outside of my
control. This takes UK postcode in two parts (postcode1 - the initial part
e.g. ng1 and postcode2 the later part e.g.7sw)
Is it appropriate that I have one label for two inputs or does anyone
know of a surefire way to hide second label I have tried this but it does
not
seem cross browser
html snippet
label for=PostCode1Postcode:/labelinput type=text
class=postcode
id=PostCode1 name=PostCode1 maxlength=4 /label for=PostCode2
class=hidesecond part of postcode:/labelinput class=postcode
type=text id=PostCode2 name=PostCode2 maxlength=4 /
css selectors relating to this
#su_housing input.postcode
{
width:2em;
}
#su_housing label.hide
{
position:absolute;
left:;
font-size:0;
color:#fff;
}
Would appreciate anyones thoughts help
Many Thanks
Shaun
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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability
For discussion on usability of breadcrumb trails see Nielsen, http://www.useit.com/alertbox/breadcrumbs.html On Fri, June 6, 2008 7:45 am, libwebdev wrote: Hi folks, My organisation manages around 7000+ pages for 100s of departments, using a CMS. Mine is the only department outside the CMS, just because we can. We have been persuaded (read: bullied) to redesign our header to exactly match that of the parent organisation. I have no problem with that per se, but theirs includes breadcrumbs, and we don't want 'em. I'm wondering what the consensus is here on their usefulness. I've always been under the impression that the purpose of breadcrumbs was to indicate to the user where they had been. However, the ones we are being urged to implement do no such thing; they simply display our organisational structure. This means that on every one of our 200-odd pages, the breadcrumbs will appear like so (we are the library): Parent Org Clinical Services Library Current page The only thing that's going to change is the current page. To me, that's not a breadcrumb trail at all. Am I wrong in my thinking? Is this a common usage? How does this benefit the user at all? I'm questioning it because of usability issues, which is how I tie it in with web standards. If this is considered off-topic, I apologise, and replies should come directly to me rather than the list. thanks, lib. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability
Flaming is definitely off topic! On Fri, June 6, 2008 9:38 am, Ted Drake wrote: Damn, this is refreshing to hear for a change! Enough said. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Harris Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 9:13 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability libwebdev wrote: My organisation manages around 7000+ pages for 100s of departments, using a CMS. Mine is the only department outside the CMS, just because we can. We have been persuaded (read: bullied) to redesign our header to exactly match that of the parent organisation. I have no problem with that per se, but theirs includes breadcrumbs, and we don't want 'em. Who pays your bills? Golden Rule is that the guy with the gold makes the rules. Suck it up. Because we can is not a valid reason to do anything. You are part of the organization, yes? Therefore you should fit within its structures and strictures, whether you like that or not. If they are wrong, document it and prove it, otherwise it sounds like petulance to me. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Marking up company logo
But the Webpage (or the entire site for that matter) is not be about The Sun or The Times - it's about the news. And the news is what the user is looking for. On Fri, May 30, 2008 9:10 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My take on this, is that IT ALL DEPENDS ! Every site is different. For example: www.calcresult.com does not use a traditional image-based logo, so the arguments that the site logo is 'just a simple image' fails completely. Some sites look a bit like a newspaper. Newspapers themselves vary considerably (in the UK at least.) Some have their name in large type, eg the SUN Others prefer a more subtle masthead, like The Times If I had to replicate the former, I would undoubtedly put the word SUN into an H1 - they care about their brand, and have little or no logo. For The Times, I would not use an H1 - they believe that their reputation speaks for itself. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jen Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:40 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Marking up company logo An h1 is definitely not for marking up the company logo. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li
I seem to remember someone in a previous thread, about similar problem, suggested using, display: table-cell; vertical-align: middle; On Sat, May 17, 2008 3:39 pm, Darren Lovelock wrote: Hi list, I've been trying to find a solution that will allow me to vertically center all the items in a li. The big problems i've got are that the li's are a non-fixed height and are floating to the left. So that kills the negative http://www.jakpsatweb.cz/css/css-vertical-center-solution.html positioning method and the table-cell http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/center#vertical methods that I've found whilst scouring the web. Does anyone know a method that I can use that doesn't involve using tables? Any help will be greatly appreciated! Regards, Darren Lovelock Munky Online Web Design http://www.munkyonline.co.uk http://www.munkyonline.co.uk/ T: +44 (0)20-8816-8893 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] [OT] users - IT literate?
But that's not because lots of people don't know how to use the address bar, its because MOST PEOPLE find it easier to type partial URL's into Google rather than typing the whole URL into the address bar - plus if you make a slight error you get prompted for the correction rather than just told it doesn't exist. Experienced IT literate people do this too. On Fri, May 16, 2008 6:50 am, Matthew Pennell wrote: ... and there are lots of people who don't know how the address bar of their browser works! (Look at Google's top searches, they are all URLs - people use that rather than type in the address bar.) -- - Matthew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links
This point originally concerned which character to use IF you use a character to separate links. It did NOT say that this was the preferred method. On Mon, May 12, 2008 2:18 am, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred character Really? Do you have any data supporting your claim? I'm happy to learn more since we cannot conduct user tests on our end. As was pointed out before, I thought a read of List. 5 items. Item one: . Item two: etc. was good enough. Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links
The reason for putting the character there in the first place is explicitly to help screen-reader users distinguish between links. Screen-reader users have said that the vertical bar is THEIR preferred character (even though this means repeating vertical bar) since it is not used for anything else and can't be confused. Border is, of course, purely presentational and of no use whatsoever to screen-readers and, therefore, does not fulfill accessibility requirements. On Fri, May 9, 2008 7:31 am, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: The most common separator used in such circumstances ... is the vertical bar...whilst it is quite wordy That's the reason why I've started *not* to use it anymore. I'm using borders instead and add the class last to the last list element to apply no borders at all. Whilst a border is slightly higher than a vertical bar it avoids screenreaders to go home vertical bar latest posts vertical bar contact us vertical bar sitemap vertical bar Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The Problem of adjacent links
From a usability/accessibility point a view. The most common separator used in such circumstances (and therefore that most expected by screen-reader users) is the vertical bar. i.e. IF you add extra characters for accessibility, use the ones they are familiar with (usability). Addition: apparently the vertical bar character was preferred by screen-reader users because, whilst it is quite wordy, there is virtually no other use for it, so very little opportunity for confusion. On Thu, May 8, 2008 2:32 pm, Rahul Gonsalves wrote: On 08-May-08, at 2:33 PM, Designer wrote: The WAI validator complains [...] Do you have to build a WAI-validating site? If you don't have to, I would suggest ignoring that guideline, as it doesn't necessarily enhance accessibility for visitors. I would suggest using :focus to provide visual cues - most modern screen readers are able to differentiate between adjacent links without difficulty. You can use a list as someone mentioned, you can also add a hidden character. [...] @Mike: Adding extra characters just increases the auditory clutter that screenreader-users have to experience. While your method is a good one if WAI-valid is necessary, I must respectfully disagree with it on accessibility grounds :-). Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as center.
centre is not a keyword and can be used.
The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to
use some more obscure name, feel free.
On Sat, May 3, 2008 2:33 pm, Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
center goes against separation of presentation and content.
In a situation where your HTML looks like:
div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div
You should change it to something like:
div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div
Then your CSS rule could look more like:
#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}
One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to isolate
the elements you wish to style.
In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
little more future proof.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Or use a CSS class to do the same,
div class=centre
and
.centre {
text-align: center;
}
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
What about div style=text-align: center ?
Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
_
Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi,
I know that the align attribute such as div align=center is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible
alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.
What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. Ive resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=center as that is the
only
way
I can think of.
Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?
Id be interested in your opinions
Cheers
Simon
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Re: [WSG] Image links
Do you mean you have a 1px bottom border on the anchor? If so, altering the border attributes of the image will not change this. You could, perhaps, try altering the relative positioning of the image to slightly lower (hiding the border). This seems to be a bit messy - which is what usually happens when you go against the natural order of things. On Sat, May 3, 2008 7:15 pm, Dean Matthews wrote: On May 3, 2008, at 5:48 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: To be clear, I have a 1pixel bottom border on hover (It looks better than the default underline). The problem is to easily and globally prevent the border on hover on image links. I have solved it with a border-style: none; class but it has to be applied to each image, which is a pain. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_syntax.asp
The class Selector
With the class selector you can define different styles for the same type
of HTML element.
Say that you would like to have two types of paragraphs in your document:
one right-aligned paragraph, and one center-aligned paragraph. Here is how
you can do it with styles:
p.right {text-align: right}
p.center {text-align: center}
You have to use the class attribute in your HTML document:
p class=right
This paragraph will be right-aligned.
/p
p class=center
This paragraph will be center-aligned.
/p
On Sun, May 4, 2008 1:12 pm, Chris Price wrote:
Stuart Foulstone wrote:
CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as center.
centre is not a keyword and can be used.
The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish
to
use some more obscure name, feel free.
But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
that class.
Markup is markup.
Css is css.
--
Kind Regards
Chris Price
Choctaw
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.choctaw.co.uk http://www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel. 01524 825 245
Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while
Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~
Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd
~~
Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in
England and Wales with company number 04627649
Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,
St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB . United Kingdom
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Re: [WSG] Image links
Yes there is a simple way. Set up the anchor hover rule using, text-decoration: underline; An image is NOT text so it will not underline the image. The image should be given an alt text description for when the image is not available. This text WILL be underlined on hover which is as it should be. On Thu, May 1, 2008 10:47 pm, Dean Matthews wrote: When you set up an anchor rule that has an underline on hover meant for text, is there a simple way to prevent the underline on image links in the same ID or do you have to set up a separate class with anchor rules? Thanks, Dean *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Or use a CSS class to do the same,
div class=centre
and
.centre {
text-align: center;
}
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
What about div style=text-align: center ?
Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
_
Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi,
I know that the align attribute such as div align=center is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.
What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. Ive resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=center as that is the only
way
I can think of.
Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?
Id be interested in your opinions
Cheers
Simon
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Re: [WSG] Image links
PS
As someone mentioned earlier you should also remove borders from the image,
a img {
border: 0;
}
(since some browsers will treat border as underline in these circumstances)
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:11 am, Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Yes there is a simple way.
Set up the anchor hover rule using,
text-decoration: underline;
An image is NOT text so it will not underline the image.
The image should be given an alt text description for when the image is
not available. This text WILL be underlined on hover which is as it
should be.
On Thu, May 1, 2008 10:47 pm, Dean Matthews wrote:
When you set up an anchor rule that has an underline on hover meant
for text, is there a simple way to prevent the underline on image
links in the same ID or do you have to set up a separate class with
anchor rules?
Thanks,
Dean
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RE: [WSG] help with background color
Why The Fuss? On Fri, April 25, 2008 9:28 pm, Rick Faircloth wrote: Chill, out... and watch the language... Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ?? ? Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 3:54 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] help with background color wtf! wrap name in some elemnts/ and give it needed bg wtf! Laert Jansen пиÑеÑ: Hello everyone! I am looking for some help here. I want to apply a background to the names of the clients on my website (www.laertjansen.com http://www.laertjansen.com) I did it to the text on the top ..there´s a black background..and I want a blue bg on the client´s name but its not working. How do I do this? I attached an image to show what I want to do Thanks a lot! -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com http://www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] div/span inside table cell problem
Your problem is probably because your CSS converts the normally inline
span elements to floating block elements.
On Sun, April 27, 2008 10:41 am, Naveen Bhaskar wrote:
hi,
I have a table like this. Each table cell has two values which has put
inside a span. I want this two values come horizontally... now its coming
as
two lines...
how can i show this values in a single line. I cant set any value as width
for the TD since its dynamically created value. the TD shouls stretch
according to the contents...
pls help.
thanks in advance..
table
tr
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
/tr
tr
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
/tr
tr
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
tdspan class=price value/spanspan class=discountvalue
/span/td
/tr
/table
.price, . discount {
display:block;
float:left;
}
--
navii
-
thanks and regards
Naveen Bhaskar Menon
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Re: [WSG] Path semantics
On Mon, April 14, 2008 3:25 pm, Samuel Santos wrote: Semantically speaking, what is the right HTML/XHTML element to represent a path or a file name? Would it be samp, kbd, or simply code? Best regards, -- Samuel Santos http://samaxes.com/ Hi, None of the above. The samp tag is used to designate sample output from a program, script, etc. The kbd tag is used to signify that the indicated text is to be typed by the user on the keyboard. The code tag is to enclose an example piece of code - so that the browser knows that is not to be executed. Depending on the circumstances, the cite tag may be appropriate. Stuart *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make diagonal lines change color?
Hi, From a usability and accessibility point of view doing this is a very bad idea, so is way OT for Web Standards Group. On Thu, April 10, 2008 11:54 pm, Laert Jansen wrote: Hello everyone. Well there´s something I want to do but I have no idea if it´s possible to be done and how would I do this. My website (www.laertjansen.com) has some two color diagonal lines as a bg. What I want to do is: On the mouse over color X it becomes color Y On the mouse over color Y it becomes color X Is it possible to be done? Thanks a lot for any help -- Laert Jansen www.laertjansen.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Frames and title relevance to screen readers....
Hi, The link I gave discusses screereaders and seems to suggest that screenreaders use the title attribute of the frames rather than the title tag within the head section of the frame contents. Since the article specifically relates to screenreaders and their accessibility problems with frames and as it makes no mention of title tags of frame contents, it would seem not to be currently an issue. However, a future user agent/screenreader may wish to use the title tag (or you may wish to use no frames section to access frame content pages separately) so why not include the title tag anyway - it shouldn't make too much effort and may help in the design process semantics. On Wed, April 2, 2008 11:30 pm, Anat Katz wrote: thanks for that Stuart. We have already implemented frame titles, we were actually referring to the page titles (found within the HEAD) of the html that makes up the page within the frame. If these were left blank would it cause a problem??? Frame: frame src=page.html name=BodyContent id=BodyContent title=Main Content longdesc=frameset-desc.html#BodyContent noresize=noresize / page.html: HEAD TITLE???/TITLE /HEAD Cheers, Anat -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stuart Foulstone Sent: Wednesday, 2 April 2008 8:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Frames and title relevance to screen readers Hi, You might find the following link useful: See http://www.webaim.org/techniques/frames/ Stuart On Wed, April 2, 2008 1:13 am, Anat Katz wrote: Hi team, Just a general question - is there any value from a screen reader point of view, to have a specific title to the actual pages that were build /called by the frameset. Is there any value for screen reader's users? I.e.: the page that contains the main content, should have a specific /relevant page title? Do screen readers read the page title of each one of the pages of the frameset? Or do they only read the one frameset page title? Example: Recipes page title as opposed to main content page title. (please note I am not referring to the titles of the frames in the frameset, see example below) frame src=page.html name=BodyContent id=BodyContent title=Main Content longdesc=frameset-desc.html#BodyContent noresize=noresize / Cheers, Anat This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Frames and title relevance to screen readers....
Hi, You might find the following link useful: See http://www.webaim.org/techniques/frames/ Stuart On Wed, April 2, 2008 1:13 am, Anat Katz wrote: Hi team, Just a general question - is there any value from a screen reader point of view, to have a specific title to the actual pages that were build /called by the frameset. Is there any value for screen reader's users? I.e.: the page that contains the main content, should have a specific /relevant page title? Do screen readers read the page title of each one of the pages of the frameset? Or do they only read the one frameset page title? Example: Recipes page title as opposed to main content page title. (please note I am not referring to the titles of the frames in the frameset, see example below) frame src=page.html name=BodyContent id=BodyContent title=Main Content longdesc=frameset-desc.html#BodyContent noresize=noresize / Cheers, Anat This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] USERS - was [Why is u deprecated?]
While yet another 50+ age group, who invented the Internet and the World Wide Web, continue to set the standards which stop it descending into chaos. On Mon, March 31, 2008 3:39 pm, Michael Horowitz wrote: I find most do. I think there is a wide disparity depending on who you work with. Over time we are going to move to a much more educated group of users. Students coming out of college now are highly computer literate and web savvy. The next generation of users growing up using myspace and linked in are not going to have problems using the back button. And they will be used to seeing various different types of links actually used rather than what we say they should be. On the other and the current older generation which makes up a lot of senior managements 50+ age group may be the group you are discussing. One group has never known a world without the web and sees it an an integral part of their generations social identity while the other group first started to use it as needed for business. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Designer wrote: Keryx Web wrote: Underlines on paper have no usability impact, since you cant click on it! Underlines on web pages have a usability impact, since people think they are clickable links. Just out of interest, I did a site map recently and all the links were red and underlined, at least on hover. The client moaned and didn't like the red or the underline. I explained that it was 'standard convention for links'. The response was oh, I didn't realise that!. Thing is, this person and her current staff of three have been using a PC since 1998. No one else knew either. So I did a simple test on all of them. NO-one (that's big fat zero) knew what the 'back-button' was . . . This is what I find time and time again. Contrary to some of the comments l hear on this list, my experience is such that most computer users haven't got the first clue about how to use their machines, even after ten years . . . I wish we had real information on this, because it has a direct bearing on whether we should be holding users hands whilst designing a site, or assuming (wrongly) that users have 'choices'. (open in a new tab? you must be joking!!) Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] nest heading properly
But the bold text titles in this situation are usually at the same level in the document structure so should have the same , say h3, heading level. On Fri, March 28, 2008 7:08 pm, tee wrote: ... it's more than a challenge for a complicated columned layout that designer tends to use h3 for every bold text title. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Why is u deprecated?
But semantic mark-up such as em and strong is there for user-agents such as screen-readers to use. That they do not currently render them as different from normal text does not mean that it is not the intention. We create Web standards that user-agents can work towards implementing (if they wish) not the other way round. On Thu, March 27, 2008 4:17 pm, Rochester oliveira wrote: em and strong are NOT for screen readers. they are for the semantic markup. screen readers do not render em and strong, they read it as plain text. 2008/3/27, IceKat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I do the exact same thing (clicking on underlined text which isn't a link) but it does make it very complicated to create access keys for forms because u was used to show which letter was the access key. Messing around with endless spans will discourage them. I'm really sorry there is no alternative as there is with b and i. Does anyone know an alternative to xmp? I know you can use entitiy codes but this one saved the trouble and is now depreciated. Perhaps they could bring those two back. IceKat Joseph Ortenzi wrote: Very good points b and i are stylistic and em and strong are semantic. u is stylistic, but the intention of an underlined string of text can be expressed with any of the above, dependent on intention. I am one of those severely frustrated people who want to click underlined text so keep it out please... I like underline on hover as useful feedback that it is in fact, a link. Predefined standard colours are less important these days, but good design does seem to favour blue-ish for link as a convention. Joe On Mar 27, 2008, at 09:14, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Hi, Usability. Users expect link-text to be underlined. Many user studies found that when you underline other text users try to click on it and get quite annoyed when nothing happens (some users would click on the underlined text several times before they gave up). Originally links were to have predefined colours that would have avoided this situation, but Web Designers thought better and decided to start styling their link colours as they thought fit. Even though this styling often does not include underlining, users still expect underlined text to mean links. This led to the confusion, so something had to give - it was u. b and i are not deprecated because there may be times when you want to style the text in that way but without the semantic emphasis that em and strong confer. On Thu, March 27, 2008 4:28 am, Kepler Gelotte wrote: Hi, I am just curious if anyone can explain why the u tag has been deprecated while b and i are still allowed. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Kepler Gelotte Neighbor Webmaster, Inc. 156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854 www.neighborwebmaster.com phone/fax: (732) 302-0904 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- []'s - Rochester Oliveira http://webbemfeita.com/ Viva a Web-Bem-Feita Web Designer Curitiba - PR - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] INS and DEL in lists
Hi, No, I mean User Agent Quote from W3C: INS and DEL are used to markup sections of the document that have been inserted or deleted with respect to a different version of a document (e.g., in draft legislation where lawmakers need to view the changes). ... User agents should render inserted and deleted text in ways that make the change obvious. For instance, inserted text may appear in a special font, deleted text may not be shown at all or be shown as struck-through or with special markings, etc. On Tue, March 25, 2008 2:13 pm, Svip wrote: Don't you mean server sided rather than browser/user agent? /Svip On 25/03/2008, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, RE: When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render something like this I can't say I've ever felt the need to use these tags, but isn't hiding the content supposed to be the job of the browser/user agent - rather than you using CSS. On Sun, March 23, 2008 12:43 pm, Thomas Thomassen wrote: I was working on some examples for the use of del and ins. http://www.thomthom.net/blog/2008/03/document-history-viewer-making-use-of-del-and-ins/ As I was working on this I wanted to mark up a list where items had been added and removed. That's when I realised that you can't wrap up li dt or dd in del or ins elements because ul, ol and dl only allows list items as their direct child. The del and ins then have to be wrapped inside the list item. ul liItem 1/li lidelItem 2/del/li liItem 3/li /ul When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render something like this: * Item 1 * * Item 3 Because I could wrap up the entire list item, the bullet point would still remain. To me it appears illogical to not wrap the del or ins around the list items when you add and remove items to the list. I'm guessing it's a case where every scenario wasn't accounted for when the specifications was written. (Yes, I know that I could add an extra class to the list item that I wanted to hide, but it's not the point. It shouldn't be necessary.) However, when this scenario presents itself I see it as fine to break the specification and mark it up like this: ul liItem 1/li delliItem 2/li/del liItem 3/li /ul This seem to render exactly as I expect it to do in every browser I've tested. * Item 1 * Item 3 I posted a comment about it in the W3C public HTML discussion group, hoping it'd be picked up and amend HTML5's specification to allow this. However, there's yet been any response. Is there any other place I could air this issue in hope of it getting heards by the authors of the next HTML specs? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] INS and DEL in lists
Hi, RE: When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render something like this I can't say I've ever felt the need to use these tags, but isn't hiding the content supposed to be the job of the browser/user agent - rather than you using CSS. On Sun, March 23, 2008 12:43 pm, Thomas Thomassen wrote: I was working on some examples for the use of del and ins. http://www.thomthom.net/blog/2008/03/document-history-viewer-making-use-of-del-and-ins/ As I was working on this I wanted to mark up a list where items had been added and removed. That's when I realised that you can't wrap up li dt or dd in del or ins elements because ul, ol and dl only allows list items as their direct child. The del and ins then have to be wrapped inside the list item. ul liItem 1/li lidelItem 2/del/li liItem 3/li /ul When I hid the del using display: hidden; the list would render something like this: * Item 1 * * Item 3 Because I could wrap up the entire list item, the bullet point would still remain. To me it appears illogical to not wrap the del or ins around the list items when you add and remove items to the list. I'm guessing it's a case where every scenario wasn't accounted for when the specifications was written. (Yes, I know that I could add an extra class to the list item that I wanted to hide, but it's not the point. It shouldn't be necessary.) However, when this scenario presents itself I see it as fine to break the specification and mark it up like this: ul liItem 1/li delliItem 2/li/del liItem 3/li /ul This seem to render exactly as I expect it to do in every browser I've tested. * Item 1 * Item 3 I posted a comment about it in the W3C public HTML discussion group, hoping it'd be picked up and amend HTML5's specification to allow this. However, there's yet been any response. Is there any other place I could air this issue in hope of it getting heards by the authors of the next HTML specs? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Apply ALT tag to background image?
Hi, If it's a CSS background image then it's not content and doesn't have an alt attribute. (The non-preferred alternative is to to put it in an img tag with alt=) If it IS content, it should be in an image tag rather than CSS background image, with the alt attribute describing the content of the image (or its function if that's more appropriate). On Mon, March 24, 2008 11:22 am, Kristine Cummins wrote: I've got a background graphic designated in my style sheet - is there a way to apply an alt and/or title tag to that or would I need to just not make it a background image? My intuition is the latter - but just if there is a slight chance.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Hanging indents
Perhaps you could try nested lists. On Fri, March 21, 2008 1:56 am, Elizabeth Spiegel wrote: Hi all I'm developing a site for a non-profit organisation and one page is their constitution. I'm trying to get the clauses to appear with a hanging indent as they currently do in the word version: http://www.dra.org.au/files/QTI5QDJCKU/DRA-Constitution-Amended-10Feb07%20(6 7%20KB).doc. I thought I'd achieved it using a float - see www.spiegelweb.com.au/test/dra/constitution_float.html - then looked at it in IE 6 and started tearing my hair out. I then tried a different approach using white-space: pre; www.spiegelweb.com.au/test/dra/constitution.html. I don't like this as it relies on multiple spaces and I suspect that it will stop lining up as soon as fonts other than the default are used. Suggestions anyone? (Note that I can't change the numbering scheme.) Elizabeth Spiegel Web editing 0409 986 158 GPO Box 729, Hobart TAS 7001 www.spiegelweb.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Design to Web accessibility standards and you remove all the clutter that can get in the way of bots traversing your site and also include information that they might otherwise miss (e.g. through alt attributes). The easier it is to find keywords the better your ranking for them. Stuart On Fri, March 7, 2008 4:15 am, Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Design to Web accessibility standards and you remove all the clutter that can get in the way of bots traversing your site and also include information that they might otherwise miss (e.g. through alt attributes). The easier it is to find keywords the better your ranking for them. Stuart On Fri, March 7, 2008 4:15 am, Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology - *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] re: generate data
I agree - ignorance and couldn't care less are the commonest excuses for not creating professional standards based Websites. On Sun, February 24, 2008 4:02 am, Breton Slivka wrote: I don't really feel like participating in the dramatic part of this- But I can answer some of the questions about javascript. On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:53 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm more of a designer than a developer. my knowledge of javascript is limited. i am currently reading: javascript, the definitive guide by david flanagan. help me out here please, if i'm off base or need more information. i understand that javascript is a programming language. correct i understand that javascript is needed to pass information from a form to a data base for storage or retrieval of data. Incorrect- Javascript is absolutely not needed for this. In fact, I would actively discourage this usage, because it makes forms inaccessable to clients without javascript. (Even though I do quite like javascript most of the time) i also understand there are more uses for javascript than my above remark, but, again, my limited understanding of javascript draws a blank for other uses. Javascript is basically a tool to allow website authors to add browser features that are not built in to the browser. That's how I see it anyway. That's not exactly how most people use it, or think of it. i don't understand why someone would code a page and use javascript that would make the page not available without it. It's not strictly the usage of javascript that makes the page inaccessable, it's the page's dependance on it. If you think of javascript like I do- A tool for adding features- then the page still needs to be able to work without those features. The reasons for someone making a page that doesn't work without javascript are complicated, but it basically boils down to how the author thinks about what a webpage is, and how it works. I've spoken to the author for instance, of www.eventliving.com. That website does not work at all without javascript- And there's really no reason that it can't. The issue is that the guy who programmed it had a background in Java application development- Not web development. He seemed to think of a website as a specialized kind of program. He didn't seem to know, for instance that the distinction between clientside javascript, and serverside java code was important. The goal was simply to get the website to work in IE, just like with any other program, the goal might be to simply get it to work in windows. There was no awareness of accessibility issues. But that's just one case. Someone might alternatively be perfectly aware of accessibility issues, and there are other reasons for depending on javascript. Accessibility, though in a sense is trivially easy once you know it, is percieved by a lot of people as being quite difficult. Application responsiveness might be a top priority, and the author simply sees no reason to make the site work without javascript. would someone like to point me to some references on how to use javascript in a standards compliant way and have a go at the above question? hijax http://xtech06.usefulinc.com/schedule/paper/29 dwain *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Hi, Web 2.0 is basically what Web 1.0 was meant to be, before it was hijacked by commerce, i.e. collaborative information sharing, social networking, etc. The difference is that nowadays we have Web technologies which make this much easier and more extensive, e.g. Wikipedia and other wikis, blogs, rss feeds etc. I guess, from a design point of view, Web 2.0 is creating Websites which incorporate these technologies. Stuart On Tue, February 12, 2008 10:52 pm, Katrina wrote: kevin mcmonagle wrote: yes its a buzzword mostly but from a design standpoint its also a genre. That's an interesting thought. Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? Has it become an art movement/period, in the same way as Modernism, Post-Modernism, Humanism, Impressionism, etc? Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Very ironic. On Wed, February 13, 2008 12:38 pm, Nick Fitzsimons wrote: ... NickFitz in about time to unsubscribe from this list if it's going to degenerate into pretentious drivel mode... -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Navigation - Pseudo Standards?
On Thu, November 15, 2007 12:42 pm, Christie Mason wrote: This is a dynamic, database driven site to present product information on around 2500 B2B products. Top Navigation is the product Division, bottom will probably be a repeat of the site navigation, Product navigation is drill down product categories (top level would be around 25 entries). I know that Amazon does product drill down navigation on the left but it seems that many B2B sites list product nav on the right see http://www.thomasnet.com/products/hydraulic-hoists-38410809-1.html This site does not have a Product navigation menu on the right - products are located via the search function rather than navigation. The site has a list links to other related categories, which, as such, could be seen as content rather than product navigation structure. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] multilingual website advice
Certain Islamic cultures have restrictions on images of any living thing - not just people. There are also differences of opinion as to whether this applies to just drawings or to photographs too. See: http://www.muhajabah.com/pictures-fiqh.htm Whilst some things of these may be unoffensive when present on Western Websites, for a Website aimed at that community it may be offensive (or at least seem impolite or uncaring). As others have said, you really need advice from those who know and understand the sensibilities of your target audience. On Fri, November 2, 2007 8:51 am, Michael MD wrote: Another issue is graphics... if you've got any stock images of people like some sites do, you have to think about what certain cultures might think about how people dress. There are also sensitivities in some cultures about photos of people who have passed away. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. On Sun, October 28, 2007 6:46 am, Tee G. Peng wrote: John said don't use display:block. Actually the very reason I used it is because I want a user able to click on any area of the top. Is this as bad as the annoying hover effect? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
On Sun, October 28, 2007 6:38 pm, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Stuart Foulstone wrote: But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. In general parlance, click has become the general term for activate. Keyboard users won't walk away offended by the use of that term (just the same way that, for instance, a blind colleague I used to work with generally used the phrase see you later). P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ That may well be true, but irrelevant to this discussion. Tee was enlarging the clickable area of a skip to content link with the intention of making it easier to use. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG conformance and checking
You might like: http://www.wave.webaim.org/index.jsp as a graphic aid. On Fri, October 26, 2007 1:22 pm, Simon Cockayne wrote: Hi Jen, Ooh...http://www.tawdis.net/taw3/cms/en is nice. Thanks! Simon *** From: Jens Brueckmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:21:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [WSG] WCAG conformance and checkingWCAG conformance and checking Hi Simon, I realize no automated checking is foolproof...but are there any good automated tools to assist in WCAG conformance checking? ( I hear cynthia mentioned from time to time...any good/any details? Any others? Any good Firefox extensions/plug-ins? while some guidelines can be checked automatically, others have to be checked manually. Apart from Cynthia, which is ok, I would strongly recommend TAW³, which is available as an online service, a standalone version for download and as a Firefox extension. You will find it at http://www.tawdis.net/taw3/cms/en Cheers, jens -- Jens Brueckmann http://www.yalf.de *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Opera for Nintendo Wii and CSS
Opera mini simulator: http://www.operamini.com/demo/ -- On Thu, October 25, 2007 11:36 am, Rob Crowther wrote: Geoff Pack wrote: Does Opera on the Wii support handlheld and/or projection stylesheets? SVG? According to these articles, it supports handheld and tv media types, SVG and Flash player version 7: http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/show.dml/594964 http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/index.dml/tag/Wii There is an article 'Making Wii-friendly pages' on dev.opera, but it seems to be broken. I did find the article text on archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/20070616045638/http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/making-wii-friendly-pages/ (That's one long URL, not two) Breton Slivka wrote: I don't know about SVG, but you can test, because opera desktop has a mode you can activate in which it simulates opera mini. Are you sure? 'Small screen view' emulates Opera on a handheld device - which is still a full version of Opera, just a version or two behind the desktop browser. Opera Mini is an separate product which depends on a content re-writing proxy service. I have both installed on my phone. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
