Re: [WSG] which programming or web development tools which works well with jaws
You might want to look at Lynx as well. http://lynx.isc.org Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 19/08/2011, at 7:53 AM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: hi. well enrolling in a diploma in website development. and developing a website. now what web site development tools, and which programming tools which works best with Jaws? visual basic, visual web developer, c#, dream weaver, vs 2008, or 2010. which works best with jaws? marvin. ps: will take your more expertise in this area. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] major web site project
What sort of web server will it go on to? If it's a Linux hosting account you'll want to grab yourself a copy of Ubuntu or Fedora to test it on. Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 02/08/2011, at 9:56 AM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: hi. looking for some inpsiration and some ideas. i am enrolling in a diploma in web site development. using a major project, for my web site design course. and need to build a database, content management system, and probably programming in visual basic, visual web developer, php, droople. so any one got any ideas, or suggestion, i could let my head teacher know, what type of major project. and i use jaws for windows 12, on windows vista home premium, but looking to install windows 7. and visual studio professional 2010, microsoft project 2010. so any one got any suggestions. i did throw him a couple of ideas, my star trek site that i am rebuilding and extend, or a disability database. any ideas and suggestions would be welcome for a major project. marvin, from devonport, tasmania, australia. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke regelmæssigt på skolen grundet frivilligt arbejde. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan. I am not at the college due to voluntary work - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i de dager. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan. I am not at the college for the next days - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Looking for Melbourne based web developers
I'm interested to hear about the details. Please send me an email. Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 11/05/2011, at 12:34 PM, Stefan Willoughby s...@w3d.com.au wrote: Looking for recommendations for web developers (Pref in Melbourne) for some Gov work. I know plenty of places for high end design work, but just need HTML, CSS and jQuery. I have more work that I can deal with at the moment. Cheers Stefan Willoughby (Bureau of Meteorology) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i de dager. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan. I am not at the college for the next days - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i de næste 2 uger. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan. I am not at the college for the next two weeks - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan I am not at the college at the moment - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan I am not at the college at the moment - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan I am not at the college at the moment - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan I am not at the college at the moment - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Document Formats
Kevin, This query opens a much broader discussion about the convergence of web content management systems and document management systems, and the appropriate use of various applications to present and format information for various media. Word, pdf etc are often used as presentation applications for information on screen, rather than presentation applications for printed information. This often leads to storage and maintenance of two parallel files - print and screen. A more appropriate solution would be the maintenance of a single (say XML) file tagged for use with templates for multiple presentation environments and purposes - the same information could be used to create a wallet quick reference card, full instruction manual, media release, or full screen web and mobile. The basic problem in the question below seems to be the appropriateness of the information formatting tool for the presentation purpose. Kind Regards, Peter Hislop -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Erickson, Kevin (DOE) Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2010 6:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Document Formats Hi All, The website I work with receives a lot of documents to be posted that come in the form of Word, PowerPoint and Excel documents. And now, with the release of the latest versions of Ms Office, they are coming to me with an X on their extensions. I have information in the footer of all the web pages for access to free viewers for all documents including these latest extensions. This may be an adequate CYA but I am not convinced it is the best practice. I know this must be confusing for some of our visitors. I would like to ask any of you if you have had to deal with multiple document formats and how you handled this for the best user accessibility. I am thinking the best practice is to have, first, a browser/HTML version, second, a PDF version, and after that whatever version the document was created as, i.e. Ms Word, PowerPoint, etc. Example: ul li Title a href=info.html titleTitle Web Page (Web Page)/a a href=info.pdf titleTitle in PDF Format (PDF)/a a href=info.docx titleTitle in MS Word Format (Word)/a /li /ul Thank you very much for sharing your experiences on this, Kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Jeg er ikke på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan I am not at the college at the moment - but I will get back to you as soon as possible Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Long documents
Hello, Whilst many usability folk warn of user resistance to scrolling for information, there is some research that indicates that people will stick with long pages if the information is relevant and laid out in a manner that is least tiring on the eye (good contrast, thoughtful line length, no forced justification etc). From there you have two courses of action depending on the structure of the document: i) If the document can be logically broken into smaller chunks, such as chapters, an executive summary and a table of contents might work, ii) If there are no logical breaks, keep the single, long screen and offer a hard copy format - either a print css (so you're only maintaining one set of information), or an alternative file format such as Type A pdf or rtf. Whilst not environmentally friendly, it offers an alternative to people who may find long on-screen articles difficult to absorb. Hope that gives you some ideas to think about. Kind Regards, Peter Hislop -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Sunday, 17 October 2010 12:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Long documents On 10/16/10 6:19 PM, grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote: Hello, Is there any standard (official or otherwise) that limits the length of single web pages? I edit an online journal which contains articles of up to 7000 words. Currently each article resides on a single web page which the viewer must scroll to read. Some of the articles are 10-20 'screens' in length. If anyone could clarify whether there is a standard and, if so, how such documents should be presented, I would be grateful. If you want to look at the journal I'm talking about see www.baileyandireland.com. I wouldn't change a thing. You could split the articles into x-number of pages with page links at the bottom, but text loads very quickly and unless you limit a page to a single paragraph or two, people are invariably going to need to scroll so you may as well have the entire article on the page. Makes printing easy, too. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets http://www.projectseven.com/go/hgm The Ultimate Web 2.0 Carousel *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Er ikke på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan/is not present at the college - but i will get back to You as soon as possbie Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Auto Responder from Peter Downes. Alpha State
Hello Thank you for your email. This is an automatically generated reply. If it is required I'm afraid I won't be able to get back to you until the week beginning August 2nd 2010. I apologise for the inconvienience. If however your situation requires immediate attention please call our office on 01424 446 240 or send an email using the contact form on our website (www.alphastate.co.uk). Many Thanks Peter Downes. Alpha State Telephone: 01424 446 240 Website: www.alphastate.co.uk Email: pe...@alphastate.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Auto Responder from Peter Downes. Alpha State
Hello Thank you for your email. This is an automatically generated reply. If it is required I'm afraid I won't be able to get back to you until the week beginning August 2nd 2010. I apologise for the inconvienience. If however your situation requires immediate attention please call our office on 01424 446 240 or send an email using the contact form on our website (www.alphastate.co.uk). Many Thanks Peter Downes. Alpha State Telephone: 01424 446 240 Website: www.alphastate.co.uk Email: pe...@alphastate.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Er ikke fuldtids på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan/is not present at the college - but i will get back to You as soon as possbie Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Er ikke fuldtids på skolen i øjeblikket. Men vender tilbage så hurtigt jeg kan/is not fulltime present at the college - but i will get back to You as soon as possbie Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Er ikke tilstede, da jeg er i Tyskland. Er tilbage den 22. majl/meeting in Germany, but i will be back on May the 22th Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Er ikke tilstede, da jeg detlager i EGINS årlige konference.Er tilbage den 19. april/I am attending the EGIN anual conference, but i am back on April the 19th Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Testing on Windows 7
Thanks for that Have a good day. -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com On 11/04/2010, at 7:34 PM, st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: Well I am not exactly saying that as I would test ie6 ie7 on XP and ie8 on windows 7. It really depends on your clients, the site etc. But I really would expect any material differences between the same non-ie browser and version on XP and windows 7. Maybe schedule some brief testing until you feel confident? You will need to use XP for ie6 and ie7 testing anyway. Hope this helps. Steve Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2010, at 10:11, Peter Mount i...@petermount.com wrote: Hi I just want to know if there is a need to test in both Windows XP and Windows 7 i.e. if there is a need to schedule additional OS version testing. I take it from your reply it's good enough just to test in Windows 7, without testing in Windows XP as well. Thanks -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com On 11/04/2010, at 6:54 PM, st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I haven't noticed anything in firefox or chrome when the same version is used. Nothing big enough to make me wonder if a client would try to suggest it was a bug in the site. Of course this is somewhat immaterial as you wouldn't be able to solve anything caused by OS version subtle differences and I would say there will be more obvious differences between Windows, Mac and Linux. I gave up long ago trying to make sites photographically identical across browsers let alone OS. Are you asking in case you need to schedule additional OS version testing? Steve Gibbings Web designer Developer www.stevegibbingsdesign.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2010, at 09:28, Peter Mount i...@petermount.com wrote: Hi I'm just asking in general. I just want do know if there's any difference in any of the currently used web browsers. Thanks -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com On 11/04/2010, at 6:06 PM, st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have windows 7 and XP running on VMWare player. What browser and version are we talking about and do you have a site that exhibits a difference? I can take a look and let you know. Steve Gibbings Web designer Developer www.stevegibbingsdesign.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2010, at 07:05, Peter Mount i...@petermount.com wrote: Hi Has anybody noticed differences in web browser testing on Windows 7 compared to Windows XP? Or do web sites show up the same on Windows 7 as they would on Windows XP? Thanks -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] lost my web projects
Have you tried Knoppix Linux? It is a live distro that you can boot from the optical drive and it might help you see your files. Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 04/03/2010, at 6:58 AM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: hi. please read the message below. lost my web projects. corrupted hard disk crash with my toshiba. had to set it back to factory default. so got a external hard disk now. but my question is: is there any accessible recovery software where i could get my web projects, and other data back, like web projects, important documents, music. etc. cheers Marvin. Hi. okay. i am a blind computing student. i use the jaws for windows screen reader software. from http://www.freedomscientific.com well this is what i did on febuary 4. i was uninstalling sql server, as was having a problem. as i am doing a star trek application using visual web developer and sql server. a blind friend programmer who was helping me out. said i needed to stop all administrator services. so had accidently turned off system restore, turned it back on. i have a toshiba satellite a300 psagra 48056630Q model. now, selected my s c: drive. and not the toshiba hidden volume. selected a time back the previous day. clicked next, and system restore. jaws speaks all text on the screen and i use the keyboard to navigate. using windows vista home premium. 2 gb ram, 2.1 ghz processor, 250 gb hard disk, ati radium card, real tech audio manager, jaws 11.0.756u. Now heard a clunk, clunk sound. when i rebooted the machine. and the next day my dad read what was on screen. said the hard disk particion corrupted. so had to reset it back to factory default. did not have a external hard disk. i do now. but have lost all my important documents, college projects, contacts,music, etc. so is there any way to get the data back. have been installing and uninstalling software. i had the music in the music folder under Marvin. and my main folder was called c:\Docs. where i had a lot of folders, Marvins Web Site, Tafe, etc. current articles, Star Trek Project, Test Site for visual web developer. Mingw, a c++ application. I cannot be with out my laptop. Hoping to start online learning, also seeking employment and looking for employment. This is my main machine for information, projects, and entertainment. Like listening to sport on radio stations on the net, getting information, listening to pod casts about blindness,adaptive technology, etc. So if you can help me out. would like to do it my self if possible. So any software. tried 2 or 3, demo versions, but not either accessible. Or the trial version would let me preview files, but not recover, unless i purchased the full version. I do not have a credit card. So can you help me. cannot be without my machine. Was working on updating a few student web projects. Lost Them all. Or because i have installed, uninstalled, and written to the hard disk. is it gone forever? Marvin. ps: Have got a external hard disk now and do regular backups. I live in Devonport, Tasmania. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Ferie... Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Møder og ud-af-huset arbejd - nordisk lærerkonference i Oslo. Meetings and out of the office activities.. Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter!
Jason, I would not feel comfortable working for a client with such disregard for accessibility. To extend your argument if the client asks me to break the law does that make it OK? There is a real business need to have even intranet systems that are accessible. As for your assertion in the following line: If nothing else I think I have sparked up a healthy debate about accessibility whether I am right or wrong. I think there is a difference between sparking healthy debate and being a troll. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 31/01/2010, at 3:57 AM, Jason Grant wrote: @Peter Mount To some extent we are playing with fire developing however we are developing. Sometimes (within Intranet systems specially) we are specifically told by the client to develop for IE6/IE7 and not care about other browsers as the client is trying to save cash on testing (dev and UAT) and so on. Bottom line, there are circumstances within which 'playing with fire' is what the client wants. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter!
Jason your subject line is Accessibility does not matter!. If you're going to make a statement like that then I suggest you make a list of real world examples to back up your claim. Plus how can an app be useable if some people don't find it accessible? That is the flaw in your argument and it is a huge flaw. You are implying that an app can achieve greater usability by using features which in turn deny access to those users who can't use those features. How does this increased usability benefit those people who can't use it? -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 31/01/2010, at 12:16 PM, Jason Grant wrote: @Thierry I don't see how breaking a wrist has much to do with accessibility? My article does not say 'break all accessibility rules' if you can. It basically tries to say that a given advanced app solution (such as Google Calendar) requires JavaScript support to work in a semi-meaningful way. This fact usually impacts users accessing the site/app with some sort of an assistive technology or a technology with shitty JavaScript support (I used BlackBerry Bold 9000 as an example of common tool used to access the app I am currently working on). From UXD point of view we want to provide target users with highest level of usability through devices they are using. That way we increase profit and ROI. Under WCAG1.0 we would be coding for 'universal accessibility' and maybe degrade overall usability of the solution, while not providing optimal support for BlackBerry (as a scenario). This is all to do with lack of resources (time, money, skills, etc.). My argument is that 'high selective accessibility' is better than 'regular universal accessibility' if that sum-up makes any sense. This is all driven by the nature of highly varied user agents on the market now, compared to what was the case some 5 years ago even. Hope this makes sense. So I am by no means against as high accessibility as possible, but I think that evaluation of 'high accessibility' needs to be approached from a clever, business angle. On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:03 AM, Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com wrote: From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jason Grant Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter! So, what are you getting at? Yes, let's make the intranet completely inaccessible and just wait until an employee with disabilities gets hired, then redo it all? Also, an employee with no disability today could have one tomorrow. @Thierry Koblentz 'Could' is not something we should be developing for. We need to know who we are developing for, As I suggested in my post, ignoring accessibility pretending you know your audience is a mistake. Because any user can become disabled one way or the other (because of a broken wrist for example). otherwise it's a bit of a hit and miss. I'd say narrowing your target audience increases your chances of missing. -- Regards, Thierry | www.tjkdesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.flexewebs.com/semantix www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter!
So lack of time is an excuse we can use for not using accessibility from the start? How convenient we can use that excuse for not helping potential users. Besides, every email in this thread has the title Accessibility does not matter! with the !. Interesting you can't envisage anybody needing accessibility in your target audience. What methodology did you user to determine that? Did you allow for any variables on that in the future or are you assuming nobody is going to get injured or sick or even need to start wearing eye glasses? With the following paragraph: Just to clarify, the tool will work perfectly with JS on, while it will still work without JS on, but the experience will be very poor in my estimation (so it would still be possible to use it, but a blind person would not enjoy using this at all I would say). What are you saying? It seems like you are sitting on the fence in your argument. If you're going to say Accessibility does not matter!, with the !, I'd like some more solid evidence to back up your statement. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 31/01/2010, at 1:07 PM, Jason Grant wrote: @Peter Title of my article is 'Accessibility does not matter?' (the question mark is very intentional there). To address your second point I will go back to the app I am currently developing. It needs a lot of JavaScript to improve usability of the tool and a progressively enhanced solution would be so far from the JavaScript solution that in reality they are like 2 different implementations of the tool. Considering this tool has already taken me 10 solid days of coding (in my spare time) without following the full progressive enhancement route and I have another 20 days solid left in order to finish the Alpha version, while I cannot envisage this tool being used by a person with a non-JS support browser. Why should I spend time coding a progressively enhanced solution for this when I don't see this tool ever being used by a disabled person of any sort? Just to clarify, the tool will work perfectly with JS on, while it will still work without JS on, but the experience will be very poor in my estimation (so it would still be possible to use it, but a blind person would not enjoy using this at all I would say). On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Peter Mount i...@petermount.com wrote: Jason your subject line is Accessibility does not matter!. If you're going to make a statement like that then I suggest you make a list of real world examples to back up your claim. Plus how can an app be useable if some people don't find it accessible? That is the flaw in your argument and it is a huge flaw. You are implying that an app can achieve greater usability by using features which in turn deny access to those users who can't use those features. How does this increased usability benefit those people who can't use it? -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 31/01/2010, at 12:16 PM, Jason Grant wrote: @Thierry I don't see how breaking a wrist has much to do with accessibility? My article does not say 'break all accessibility rules' if you can. It basically tries to say that a given advanced app solution (such as Google Calendar) requires JavaScript support to work in a semi-meaningful way. This fact usually impacts users accessing the site/app with some sort of an assistive technology or a technology with shitty JavaScript support (I used BlackBerry Bold 9000 as an example of common tool used to access the app I am currently working on). From UXD point of view we want to provide target users with highest level of usability through devices they are using. That way we increase profit and ROI. Under WCAG1.0 we would be coding for 'universal accessibility' and maybe degrade overall usability of the solution, while not providing optimal support for BlackBerry (as a scenario). This is all to do with lack of resources (time, money, skills, etc.). My argument is that 'high selective accessibility' is better than 'regular universal accessibility' if that sum-up makes any sense. This is all driven by the nature of highly varied user agents on the market now, compared to what was the case some 5 years ago even. Hope this makes sense. So I am by no means against as high accessibility as possible, but I think that evaluation of 'high accessibility' needs to be approached from a clever, business angle. On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:03 AM, Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com wrote: From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jason Grant Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter! So, what are you getting at? Yes, let's make the intranet
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter!
After reading the article myself I agree Jason is wrong. Even with closed systems like intranets you're playing with fire if you don't have regard for accessibility. I haven't been posting to this list very much lately but I just had to say something about this. Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 30/01/2010, at 9:46 AM, Paul Novitski p...@juniperwebcraft.com wrote: At 1/29/2010 06:09 AM, Jason Grant wrote: I feel there has been LOADS of 'accessibility is a must' type discussion on this list, but at the same time I feel that there is loads of arguments which are essentially 'accessibility for the sake of accessibility'. My point is that we are heading towards the times where 'relevant accessibility' is more important than 'accessibility' per se. Please have a read of my article and comment via email or on the blog itself. http://www.flexewebs.com/semantix/accessibility-does-not-matter/ Sorry, Jason, but your essay is so poorly thought out and poorly written that you've given critical readers little to work with. You're just throwing a cat into a dog pen to watch the fun, and it's not even a real cat. If you really think there are types of websites in which accessibility concerns are irrelevant, list or describe them, but really all you're doing is exposing your own lack of broad, deep, and empathetic thinking. When accessibility matters ... * A company cares about their users You could have stopped right there. Glumly, Paul *** List Guidelines:http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Møder og ud-af-huset arbejde, men er sporadisk på mail og kontoret indtil 4. februar, hvor alt er normalt igen. Meetings and out of the office activities.. Will be back February the 4th 2010. If it is most urgent then you can try text me on +45 22 68 67 96 Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] a tiny usability question on web form
I'd look to the postal standards for countries that you're expecting to ship to. This Australia Post publication: http://www.auspost.com.au/correctaddress/adStand.pdf specifies formats, field lengths and type formats. It also refers to two Australian Standards for data formats: Australian Standard AS4212-1994 - Geographic Information Systems - Data dictionary for transfer of street addressing information; and, Australian Standard AS4590-1999 Interchange of Client Information. Hope that this provides a useful research direction. Regards, Peter Hislop -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Wednesday, 6 January 2010 1:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] a tiny usability question on web form Was making a web form for a commercial software which clientele are mainly from EU countries, in the original form the order of the Country field. The order looks like this: address/street country state city zipcode Maybe I'd been making too many web forms for US and some Asian countries' clients, I find it creates a tiny usability issue for user to have the country field places above state, city and zipcode. From my own experience, I always use tabbing to navigate web form, in a few US sites that I did shopping and that has country, city, state and zipcode setup in a non-US format, I find them to be a usability problem because I didn't read carefully but out of habit (and this is something I expect many web users would do), entered my address expecting them to be in standard US format. My client thinks otherwise: quote: Regarding the order of the fields. I understand your background, but from a usability standpoint it seems weird to me to for example show the Country field AFTER the State field. Why? Because the State field is depending on the Country field. If a user goes from field to field and are not from the US, they will be surprised to see that only US states are available in the State field. It seems more natural to choose a country first, and then have a field update (change from selectbox with states to a input text field) BELOW that instead of ABOVE that. Is is a non-issue how the order is? For sites that cater international users, is there a more standard format for address in web form? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Juleferie... tiltrængt og fortjent (måske) Men er sporadisk på mail og kontoret indtil 4. januar, hvor alt er normalt igen. Christmas and New Year - some well earnt days far away from the office.. Will be back January the 4th 2010. If it is most urgent then you can try text me on +45 22 68 67 96 Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [WSG Announce] Some links for light reading (22/12/09)
Guys, Shouldn't this be a separate thread? Thx Pete On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Rimantas Liubertas riman...@gmail.comwrote: It obviously worked in provoking discussion. Where do you see discussion there? Does keep them coming count as one? I am all for them coming but I'd like some QA applied to them too. (And I reserve the right to keep my opinion about the original commenter to myself ;-) Don't be shy. I will stick to my right (I hope I have one) to call BS when I see it. Just as I did five years ago when Vlad was pushing similar FUD about HTML on this same list. Now seems like he has a new target. Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt I was discussing the quality of the posts on rebuildingtheweb.com. I still think that this groups deserves better than writings of the guy who calls end tags elements and thinks that missing end tags for html and body elements in HTML4 is invalid markup. Seems Russ and you opted to discuss me instead. Do you think that quote still applies? Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Peter Costello +61 437 673 901 http://www.petercostello.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Er til møde i Leeds/UK... Men er tilbage torsdag den 19. november 2009 (efter kl. 15). Indtil da ser jeg ikke min mail, så hvis det er MEGET nødvendigt, så SMS mig på 22 68 67 96 out of the office.. and will be back November the 19th 2009. If it is most urgent then you can try text me on +45 22 68 67 96 Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: More than one H1?
Very interesting discussion on a point that often causes controversy. Here is my 2c for what its worth: The use of a single H1 per _page_ on a site comes from a mixture of IA, semantics, Accessibility and Usability with a nod to the history of publishing. I consider the notion of semantics as a matter of opinion as something of a strange opinion itself. Semantics refers to logic or in the case of a web site logical structure or definition which if you start from a logical premise you can then test each decision you make and therefore it would not be a matter for opinion. That said the logical premise in this case is that a web page is, well, a page - it stands alone within a single context as it can be removed from the web site (by printing, downloading or copying). Therefore semantically and otherwise the page will have an overarching theme or topic which, from the browsers (machine) point of view, should be incapsulated in the title of the page but for the user / reader it logically appears in the first heading (nominally H1). It follows then that this is the heading for the *page*. Its the most important heading and it states what the whole page is about, there for there can really be only one H1. You can relate this to publishing with the notion of chapters in a book or articles in a magazine or academic journal, or stories in a newspaper. Each is an individual entity with its own context and has an individual theme / topic encapsulated in a heading/title. Of course one can confuse the literal meaning of a page (e.g physical page of a newspaper - which has multiple articles with multiple headings or magazine which has one article on many physical pages) into this argument but my argument is that semantically a page is contextually singular covering an overarching theme or concept that should be incapsulated in its title and first, and therefore only, major heading. So just to cove the argument I made against myself: h1My Journal/h1 h2My First Article/h2 h2My Second Article/h2 h2My Third Article/h2 h2My Fourth Article/h2 And 'My First Article' might link to another *page* - thus: h1My First Article/h1 h2Introduction/h2 pblah blah blah/p Should you wrap an image with a H1 tag? Why would you? That's what we've got CSS for - swap the content of the H1 out for the image the right way and then all bases are covered. That's my 2c which I hope makes sense. -- Regards, Peter Stagg Faculty Webmaster Arts Information Technology University AUC Representative http://www.auc.edu.au/ http://www.auc.edu.au/monash Faculty of Arts Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia Building 11, Clayton Campus, Wellington Road, Clayton Telephone +61 3 9905 1221 Facsimile +61 3 9905 5117 Mobile 0407 865 159 Email peter.st...@arts.monash.edu.au http://www.arts.monash.edu.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] [Spam] :Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Efterårsferie... Men er tilbage mandag den 19. oktober 2009 (efter kl. 15). Indtil da ser jeg ikke min mail, så hvis det er MEGET nødvendigt, så SMS mig på 22 68 67 96 a whole week on vacation (and it is needed).. and will be back October the 19th 2009. If it is most urgent then you can try text me on +45 22 68 67 96 Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Autosvar - Ikke til stede: WSG Digest
Er ude i lande tog undervise. Men er tilbage torsdag den 17. september 2009. Indtil da ser jeg ikke min mail, så hvis det er MEGET nødvendigt, så SMS mig på 22 68 67 96 Is teaching outside the College and will be back September the 17th 2009. If it is most urgent then you can try text me on +45 22 68 67 96 Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I am out of the office on long term leave returing 2 Aug 2010. Requests should be emailed to the web helpdesk or the intranet helpdesk. For urgent requests please contact Joe Settree on 02 6274 1091 -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Er på en vel velfortjent ferie og vender tilbage til kontoret den 10. august 2009. Indtil da ser jeg ikke min mail, så hvis det er MEGET nødvendigt, så SMS mig på 22 68 67 96 Has left for summer vacation and will be back August the 10th 2009. If it is most urgent then you can try text me on +45 22 68 67 96 Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Har flyttet teltpælene ud på Roskilde Festival. Men læser min mail med jævne mellemrum. Send evt. en SMS på 22 68 67 96. The Roskilde Festival is here an i am lost somewhere out there. But will read my mail from time to time. Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What to do with buttons when a user copies text from a page.
html body This is a input type=button value=test / of the copied content /body /html Firefox: This is a of the copied content Chrome: This is a of the copied content IE: This is a of the copied content Just style the button to look like regular text etc, add your javascript to minimize/close the window, and you're set. That works to notepad anyways. WYSIWYG editors are obviously going to cop more, but I think that is more desirable and falls under what someone else has already said, don't try to be too clever What you doing 2morrow? Wanna hang? - Pete On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Paul Novitski p...@juniperwebcraft.comwrote: At 6/12/2009 01:42 AM, James Ducker wrote: Something I've been pondering - how best to handle buttons and other purely functional content residing within a block of selected text? Often a user will select a bunch of text and get something like: Some Headingminimiseclose Some text etc etc. I was thinking about adding JS mouse drag detection to hide minimise and close (let's say they're a elements) when the user is mouse-selecting text, but it would fail if a user used the text cursor to select. It sounds as though you've already answered your own question -- don't let the controls reside within the block of copyable text. In most circumstances the user will want to copy the header along with the body text of a given section, so rather than inserting the controls in the middle of copyable text I'd put them before or after. If you want the controls to appear to the right of the heading in a left-to-right text flow, you could try putting them first in the markup and then floating them right or absolutely positioning them so the heading and text are contiguous. A more elegant bulletproof solution might be to rethink the page layout and visually place the controls above or to the left of the heading to allow the natural text flow to exclude them from selection. If the controls look like they're in the middle of the copyable text, a user with browsing experience will naturally worry that the controls will get copied along with the text, diminishing very slightly their sense of trust in the intuitiveness of the design. A layout that puts them outside the selection highlight altogether -- modelled by the resize close buttons in pc mac windows that everyone's familiar with -- would be more of a no-brainer to use. Finding a way to reliably make the controls disappear while the user selects text sounds cool -- I can imagine all the ads and navigation and chromy bits disappearing while copying a story from a news site, for example, leaving my clipboard with the story I'm after not needing to be cleaned up -- but it also sounds a bit paternalistic in deciding in advance for an unknown user what they're going to want to select. If you place the controls before the heading in the markup, you leave it to the user to decide whether to include them in the selection highlight. For all you know, their purpose in copying text from the page is to illustrate in a document that aspect of the page layout that includes the controls. There's such a thing as trying to be too helpful. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Er på Afdelings Seminar, underviser og efterfølgende til Leonardo projektmøde i Helsinki. Er tilbage på RTS igen den 9. juni 2009. Men læser min mail ind i mellem Meetings, seminar and teaching takes time - will be back June the 9th 2009. But will read my mail from time to time. Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Attending the anual EGIN conference - back April the 21st Er til EGIN's årlige konference og er tilbage den 21. april Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I am out of the office returing 13 Feb. Requests shoudl be emailed to the web helpdesk. For urgent requests please contact Jenny Bruce on 02 6274 1295 -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Projec tmeeting in Germany and then Easter vacation - back April the 14th Projektmøde i tyskland og dereftter ferie - er tilbage den 14. april Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Testing in IE7 both Win XP and Vista
So as I'm specifying font families in the css it shouldn't be an issue then if I only test for IE7 in Vista and not in Windows XP as well. Thanks -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com On 16/03/2009, at 9:07 PM, michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote: The only difference that you are likely to see is going to be due to a different set of default fonts - iirc a few more were introduced with Vista. Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: [BULK] WSG Digest
Ya, then there's posts like: == From: Sigurd Magnusson sig...@silverstripe.com Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:43:04 +1300 Subject: SilverStripe 2.3.0 released. The open source SilverStripe CMS and MVC framework (PHP5) has now had a v2.3.0 release: It brings a significant set of new features, described at: http://www.silverstripe.org/silverstripe -2-3-0-released-1000s-of-improvements/ Cheers, Sigurd Magnusson. == and the millions of silverstripe events being posted. They themselves aren't so bad but it's pretty obvious that either the rules aren't being followed, or they're being pushed. This is a standards mailing list, not a hey check out open source project X mailing list. On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Mark Harris w...@tracs.co.nz wrote: Glen Wallis wrote: Am I the only person on this list who is sick of the constant and blatant advertising for this Content Management System? Don't we have rules against this? If so, they are not being enforced. I thought the post was brief, informative and to the point. If everyone on this list with a commercial or open source product or service is prevented from speaking about it at all, we'd lose a lot of content. I don't think Sigurd's posts are over the top, any more than the numerous Dreamweaver, Joomla, Drupal or insert_CMS_name_here posts, and I do think you're over-reacting just a tad. Cheers ~mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Testing in IE7 both Win XP and Vista
Hello Is it necessary to test web sites in IE7 on both Win XP and Vista? Or is it good enough to just test in IE7 on Vista? I'm just worried about IE7 rendering differently on Win XP compared to Vista. Thanks -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 i...@petermount.com http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] a WCAG 2.0 question
Ideally they should warn or give some indication that they're going to open in a new window. I know the way i personally browse sites means I hate it when they open things in new windows. If i want new windows, I hold control down as I click, or middle click, or whatever. It's default functionality for almost every browser now. If the site is poorly written and i can't do that because it's trying to run some javascript, it is frustrating, as I shouldn't have a link that isn't a link on my screen. (But this is a different issue) On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Glen Wallis glen.wal...@velocitynet.com.au wrote: Hello all I am interested to know whether the people on this list consider opening a new window without alerting the user to be a failure to conform to Success Criterion 3.2.2 of WCAG 2.0. The success criterion is as follows: *3.2.2 On Input:* Changing the setting of any user interface component does not automatically cause a change of context unless the user has been advised of the behaviour before using the component. (Level A) The key phrases, I believe are “user interface component” and “change of context”. I looked up the definitions of both phrases. The glossary states quite clearly that a link is a user interface component and that a change of context includes opening a new window. However, the document “Understanding SC 3.2.2” says *“Additional Techniques (Advisory) for 3.2.2* Although not required for conformance, the following additional techniques should be considered in order to make content more accessible. Not all techniques can be used or would be effective in all situations. - Giving users advanced warning when opening a new window. (future link)” This seems like a contradiction. The WCAG 2.0 Recommendation is the only normative document, so it should take precedence over the Understanding document. However, the Understanding document specifically states that warning the user is not required for conformance. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously
The ultimate solution for this kind of thing is always look into virtual machines. Microsoft distributes a WindowsXP VM for web developers to test ie6 rendering in which you could install safari 3.2 in too, and then put IE8 + Safari 4 on the main machine. On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:30 AM, Gregorio Espadas gespa...@gmail.comwrote: Hi folks... I want to install Safari 4 in Microsoft Windows for testing pourposes, but I don't want to dismiss Safari 3.2. I've been searching for a solution (installing Safari 4 without affect the current installation of Safari 3.2), but I didn't find anything. I find out that the Safari 4 installation updates the Webkit Framework, not only the browser itself... so, I guess installing in a different folder won't work. I'm aware that Safari 4 includes a User Agent changer, but I guess this tool is not for rendering, only for masquerade in order to use certain webapps. Any one knows how to accomplish this goal? I'll appreciate any suggestion. Gregorio Espadas *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] inserting text in to IE8
Dunno about your IE problems, but it doesn't work in firefox at all. Inserting text from the clipboard has always been an issue between browsers, and it was proven a while back that IE browsers could be exploited to steal passwords etc that you copy to your clipboard by pasting the clipboard into hidden regions and posting them back to a server. I'm going to go ahead and say that this is Microsofts attempt to keep the poeple that found this exploit happy, or at least squash the bad press a little bit. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Robin Gorry rob...@xplore.net wrote: Hi all. My problem isn't strictly standards but more JavaScript compatibility between IE versions. In IE6, 7 I can insert text on a range (either on highlighted text or where the cursor is placed) using pasteHTML(). In IE8 I can only pasteHTML() when text is highlighted and not when the cursor is placed. See here for very simple example. http://robing.xtools.co.nz/demo_cms/test_editor/ Any idea's why? Robin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: [SPAM] WSG Digest
Ferie - er tilbage mandag uge 9. Vacation - will be back monday week 9. Med venlig hilsen/best wishes Peter Larsen Center for Medie og Kommunikation Roskilde Tekniske Skole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Re: Html markup suggestions
There are definitely xml formats, There's a massive one that documents everything from book title to the first time your mother in law purchased the book. http://www.editeur.org/onix.html Is that what you were after? On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Porkandpaws sh...@porkandpaws.com wrote: Hi All I am looking to mark up the following information relating to books Book title Author Cover image ISBN I would like to do this in the most semantic rich way that potentially could be programatically extracted There are no existing microformats suitable for this and I do not know of any drafts. Would anyone care to offer any suggestions Many thanks in anticipation Shaun On 10 Feb 2009, at 21:48, rvalenzu...@mapfreseguros.cl wrote: Dessde el 9 al 27 de Febrero me encontraré de vacaciones. Sus requerimientos relacionados con Soluciones Verticales por favor copiarlos a Natalia Lillo nali...@mapfre.cl Cordialmente, Rubén Valenzuela T. Jefe de proyectos soluciones verticales *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility testing
http://www.vmware.com/download/fusion/ http://www.soft32.com/Download/Free/Apple_Boot_Camp/4-200398-1.html Problem solved? Otherwise, Firefox has plugins that give nice reports, (HTML Validator plugin may have had the Accessibility options, i can't remember, it's been a while since i used it) Apart from that, I'm not sure I can help you On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Henrik Madsen hen...@igenerator.com.auwrote: Hi all, I'm wrapping up a Government agency website. They have reams of design and usability standards. Some pretty pointless; others very valid - but no problem. Re. accessibility, they use ACTF aDesigner. http://www.eclipse.org/actf/downloads/tools/aDesigner/index.php And our scores against WCAG v1.0 Level A could apparently be improved. They have provided scores for star rating, compliance, navigability and listenability. Now, here's the thing. This software is only for PC. I'm Mac. Not very accessible eh? :) What similar software / online systems do people use and get reliable results (if reliable results are indeed attainable)? TIA. Henrik Henrik Madsen *Generator* hen...@igenerator.com.au www.igenerator.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I am out of the office this morning. For any urgent requests please email the web helpdesk. -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Web governance
Andrew, I feel that you have hit one of the Big Problems, and perhaps many feel overwhelmed at its breadth (as do I - I've been pondering it for a few days). Others may have differing views and experiences, but a lack of governance and adherence to standards may be a symptom of corporate immaturity, political power struggles or, unfortunately, ignorance. Other contributing factors may be; • AGIMO’s “suggestions” for best practice not being mandated and • ongoing costs for bespoke development and maintenance of usability, accessibility, corporate branding and systems interoperability. If effectively empowered within the organisation, Information Management should be promoting an integrated, compliant and best practice information environment. It may be an appropriate department to be engaged in this – sitting in the policy area between the executive, auditing, marketing or IT. I hope this gives some food for thought, Peter Hislop - Original Message - From: Andrew R To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:13 PM Subject: [WSG] Web governance I realise the list is very much about nuts and bolt of standards. So this might not be the right place for this posting and might be deemed to be ‘off topic’. If it is please ignore! I work in a large (lumbering) Australian federal government agency. My colleges in the web publishing section see developing standards compliant web sites as normal professional practice. However, some other parts of the organisation, mainly ‘traditional’ developers in the IT section, simply don’t get it. The outcome of this is some of the organisation’s web based applications are riddled with problems caused by poor coding practices. These manifest themselves as accessibility issues, difficulties with cross browser compatibility, and significant bottle necks applying updates to branding and presentation. The problems are steadily growing as the organisation builds more and more web interfaces to various applications and systems. To date the web section has taken the approach of trying to work with the developers in the IT area to help them understand the techniques and benefits web standards. However, this has been problematic because there is a lack of more formal mechanisms to enforce compliances. This brings me on to my question for the group. I’m currently looking for web channel governance models suitable for applying in a large public sector organisation that is moving towards significant delivery of services on-line. Can anyone give me some pointers, do have something that works in your organsiation, etc? The few models that I have found are geared at managing inter/intra net sites with a strong emphasis on managing content publishing and how this is used as a communication/marketing tool. For example http://egovau.blogspot.com/2008/07/drawing-lines-effectively-structuring.html. This approach tends to place the Marketing sections as the owner and avoids engagement with an organisation’s IT area. The problem is online services delivery is much bigger then the traditional ‘communications’ business activities, they cut across many parts of the organisation and require complex integration with other systems. Help! Andrew -- Get the best wallpapers on the Web – FREE. Click here! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: HTML reached end of life?? (Was: Re: [WSG] Sorry Link)
Sorry, I'll have to take note of that point if I reference that article again. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com On 25/11/2008, at 12:26 PM, rch lib wrote: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! ... Things change ... yes, well, I do realise that. The point is, that a newbie was directed to this resource, and it's clearly outdated (and it made me do a double-take when I read it). I didn't want her to go there, read that, and go what the . So I was just making sure it was noted. lib. At 06:07 PM 24/11/2008 -0500, you wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:28 PM, rch lib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I took a look at that Drew Mclellan article. He says: Step 3: Future-proof your site with XHTML HTML has reached the end of its life and is no longer being developed as a mark-up language. Its replacement is Extensible HTML (XHTML)—an implementation of XML that works in all browsers, old and new. Even though XHTML is strict XML, its tags and attributes are so similar to HTML that old browsers do not spot the difference. Using XML is advantageous because it's a modern, future-proof standard. Is that correct?? Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: HTML reached end of life?? (Was: Re: [WSG] Sorry Link)
Sorry, I'll have to make mention of that point next time I reference it. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com On 25/11/2008, at 12:26 PM, rch lib wrote: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! ... Things change ... yes, well, I do realise that. The point is, that a newbie was directed to this resource, and it's clearly outdated (and it made me do a double-take when I read it). I didn't want her to go there, read that, and go what the . So I was just making sure it was noted. lib. At 06:07 PM 24/11/2008 -0500, you wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:28 PM, rch lib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I took a look at that Drew Mclellan article. He says: Step 3: Future-proof your site with XHTML HTML has reached the end of its life and is no longer being developed as a mark-up language. Its replacement is Extensible HTML (XHTML)—an implementation of XML that works in all browsers, old and new. Even though XHTML is strict XML, its tags and attributes are so similar to HTML that old browsers do not spot the difference. Using XML is advantageous because it's a modern, future-proof standard. Is that correct?? Don't believe everything you read on the Internet! -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] First Attempt
Hi What's the url? -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com On 24/11/2008, at 9:55 PM, kate wrote: Hello, My first attempt at Web design but only first step to any design and wondered what you think so far as to: Top menu/color/images/table/..gently *grin In IE the page color is white so need to find how to get the correct color. This color works in FF ok - #172228 I am working in DW8 on WinXP I have yet to get to grips with CSS yet but learning as I go along. Thanks Kate. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Sorry Link
Hi You might want to look at this tutorial by Drew Mclellan at: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/extreme/five_steps.html You don't need DreamWeaver to do it. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com On 24/11/2008, at 10:00 PM, kate wrote: http://www.jungaling.com/katalinadesigns/index.html Thanks, sorry I forgot the link in my earlier mail. Kate *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] The mystery gap issue
PNG transparency only works in IE7+ ...there are some workarounds easliy found on Google. hth Peter Goddard Developer/Programmer PSI Global Ltd, Bowburn, Durham DH6 5AD, UK T: +44 (0) 191 3774742 F: +44 (0) 191 3770769 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristine Cummins Sent: 11 November 2008 10:02 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] The mystery gap issue Please check www.richardvonsaal.com/test/index.html The gap is about 2 pixels high directly beneath the big image, and on top of the footer div. Stylesheet www.richardvonsaal.com/test/styles.html I'm tearing hair at this point. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Another question: why is it that the .png file shows a white background in older versions of IE? Is it because it hadn't adapted to this newer file type? Should I not use the .png file type yet? Thanks in advance, Kristine *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Online WSG Mail Archive
Hi Is the online wsg mail archive good enough to use instead of having all the emails sent to the email program? I've currently got well over 5000 emails in Mail on Leopard and I think that's too much. Is it easy to find things and maybe bookmark them on the online wsg mail archive? Thanks -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict
Hi I'm a front and backend developer using .NET and it is certainly tricky to get those Visual Studio inserted items to validate. However there are some best practices for this. Use web controls with full control over the markup and the latest 3.5 version stuff certainly helps (FormView, CSS Friendly Control Adapters etc). It's not impossible and there's plenty of assistance available online. It does require more effort than just using the standard control toolkits supplied by Microsoft and there are a raft of Control providers (eg Telerik) that help. Basically, once those techniques are learned, they can be adapted to suit any site. Additionally, there are best practices available which enable the placing of the server generated javascript to one area of the page (after the html) and JSON/AJAX/MVC Framework techniques which can also help. .NET gets a lot of criticism for this and often justifiably but really it's just a tool and you know what they say about workmen and their tools Validation isn't just the province of the PHP/LAMP crowd. HTH Peter Peter Goddard Developer/Programmer PSI Global Ltd, Bowburn, Durham DH6 5AD, UK T: +44 (0) 191 3774742 F: +44 (0) 191 3770769 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Baker Sent: 08 October 2008 13:01 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict I'm also a front end developer working with .NET all the time. .NET is a BASTARD to get to validate. Its possible but its hard work1 Visual Studio changes case on things like onClick etc and whilst they are not biggies they are frustrating. As Chris pointed out it pumps out heaps of script and getting it to write out nicely formated form controls can be frustrating. Those templates look interesting, thanks Tatham. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I will be out of the office from Friday June 27 to Friday July 4. I will return to the office on Monday July 7. I can be reached via cell phone if necessary @ 617-290-0979. I will have limited access to email. In my absence please contact the following: MA NewMMIS Accessibility and Usability issues: Raymond Chin: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 617-428-8925 Other/EDS User Experience: Irene Gunter: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 972-797-8392 Thanks, Pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Structuring CSS
re - Out of curiosity, it wasn't an actual physical stop watch was it? of course not - it was an abacus! ;-) nah in all seriousness, it was before the time of firebug, and around the time of the birth of this mailing list. yes it was literally a stopwatch - which was enough for me at the time. i timed a bunch of different page structure scenarios a bunch of times and used averages. it was enough to get some basic findings and tweak the project. in this age of broadband the amount of time yr saving gets less significant as an overall %, but its still nice to look after the country folk ;-) pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Structuring CSS
re - How are you guys structuring your CSS files?
for me, multiple css files for different parts of the page is harder
to manage. I'm pretty old school keep everything within the 1 css
file (within reason). this also means 1 http request which is good.
exceptions are if you had a massive admin section or something you'd
probably create a separate, additional, css file just for those pages.
to make it easier to find stuff in a css file i tend to structure my
css roughly like the html...with tabbed in sub sections
so:
#header {stuff here}
#logo {...}
#nav {...}
#content {...}
#main-column {...}
.featurebox {...}
#sidebar .featurebox {...}
i find this helps me when revisiting a file after a while. i also
format my css so they dont wrap for each attribute or whatever...
meaning each rule takes up 1 line. the tabbed formatting really comes
into play there and you can very quickly scan down the doc to find the
section you need... much like you scan a html structure.
an example of mine (albeit not meticulously formatted):
http://www.mollio.org/css/main.css
of course firebug makes finding stuff so much easier these days,
giving you a filename and line number! its almost cheating... ;-)
my 2c
pete ottery
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Re: [WSG] Structuring CSS
Anton wrote... - In regards to I'm guessing this sort of structuring comes at a cost because a number of requests need to be made to the server. this is generally untrue. In principle this is exactly how download accelerators work. They split a large file into smaller segments and sent multiple requests. Since the browser environment is completely multi-threaded it should actually boost performance. (Note: I am not 100% certain if this is the fact, but there is no evidence to suggest otherwise either). - If its a small site, with not much traffic I think you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference. For large news sites that get smashed with traffic, I've sat there with a stopwatch and timed the difference (over different speed connections from dialup to broadband) between separate css files, and all in 1. And just having 1 file is definitely faster. in some cases it would bring the initial [1] load time [2] from something like 6 seconds down to 3 or 4. and then bringing all the css into the head of the page rather than a linked file chopped another second off. as i said - only applicable if extreme performance/optimisation is an issue - but it *does* make a difference. [1] - with an empty cache [2] - the time taken for the page text to appear, the page might continue loading for 10 or so seconds after this so loading in pics etc. mileage varies pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] a a:hover
Try:
lia href=http://www.bittencourtlopes.com.br/; target=_blank
title=Launch class=launchemLaunch/em/a/li
or
in stylesheet
li.launch a:hover
HTH
Peter Goddard
Developer/Programmer
PSI Global Ltd, Bowburn, Durham DH6 5AD, UK
T: +44 (0) 191 3774742
F: +44 (0) 191 3770769
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laert Jansen
Sent: 20 March 2008 15:35
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a a:hover
Olá! :)
I´m trying this:
a.launch:hover {
color:#FF7400;
text-decoration:underline;
}
and html
li class=launcha href=http://www.bittencourtlopes.com.br/;
target=_blank title=LaunchemLaunch/em/a/li
but is not working...Where´s my mistake?
Thanks a lot!
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Martin Heiden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Olá!
on Thursday, March 20, 2008 at 15:38 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote:
and the html where the word launch should have another a a:hover
div class=menu
ul
liBittencourt Lopes/li
lispanRole./spanWebsite design/li
lispanAgency./spana
href=http://www.220i.com.br;
target=_blank220i/a/li
lia href=http://www.bittencourtlopes.com.br/;
target=_blank title=LaunchemLaunch/em/a/li
/ul
/div
How do I apply a different a ahover to this link?
If this hover should apply to all links under div.menu try:
div.menu a:hover {}
or give the link a class and define:
a.newclass:hover {}
regards
Martin
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--
Laert Jansen
www.laertjansen.com
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Re: [WSG] Electronic forms building software
Sorry, I didn't know that :-) -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com Andrew Boyd wrote: Peter, Jessica has been designing forms for years and seems (based on my observations) to have a fair handle on web standards/accessibility and form coding without tools. I guess that rather than beginner advice she was after a way to code them using tools in a standards compliant way, but I will leave this to her to confirm :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Mount [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2008 10:46 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Electronic forms building software You would be better off to look at these tutorials on Accessible html/xhtml forms at: http://www.webstandards.org/learn/tutorials/accessible-forms/ I know you asked about WYSIWYG tools for this but if your looking for experience in forms then your much better off starting by learning how to them without a WYSIWYG tool. These tutorials on the Web Standards Project web site (after you look at the forms tutorial on http://www.w3schools.com/) will give you a grounding for judging other tools. Have fun -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** NOTICE - This communication is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking any action in reliance on, this communication by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please delete and destroy all copies and telephone SMS Management Technology on 9696 0911 immediately. Any views expressed in this Communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of SMS Management Technology. Except as required by law, SMS Management Technology does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free from errors, virus, interception or interference. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Electronic forms building software
Jessica Enders wrote: Hi all I was wondering what WYSIWYG electronic (web and other) forms building software would you recommend or avoid? I'm interested in experience with Form Assembly, in particular. The sorts of things I'm interested in feedback on include Wufoo, Icebrrg, SurveyMonkey, Zoomerang, QuestionPro, Vovici, FormSite, ColdFusion, InfoPath, Adobe LiveCycle and SnapForm. Thanks in anticipation, Jessica Enders Director Formulate Information Design http://formulate.com.au Phone: (02) 6116 8765 Fax: (02) 8456 5916 PO Box 5108 Braddon ACT 2612 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** You would be better off to look at these tutorials on Accessible html/xhtml forms at: http://www.webstandards.org/learn/tutorials/accessible-forms/ I know you asked about WYSIWYG tools for this but if your looking for experience in forms then your much better off starting by learning how to them without a WYSIWYG tool. These tutorials on the Web Standards Project web site (after you look at the forms tutorial on http://www.w3schools.com/) will give you a grounding for judging other tools. Have fun -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] This IE8 controversy
Hi I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Developing for Mac Browsers
Avi Miller wrote: Even if you are a hardcore gamer, the Mac is a better platform. Booting Windows via Boot Camp is native, and the hardware in the MacBook Pro (for laptops), iMac or Mac Pro (for desktops) is pretty kick-ass. :) cYa, Avi --MySource Matrix Product Evangelist Sydney / Melbourne / Canberra / Hobart / London / 2/340 Gore Street T: +61 (0) 3 9235 5400 Fitzroy, VIC F: +61 (0) 3 9235 5444 3202 W: http://www.squiz.net/ . Open Source - Own it - Squiz.net ./ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Thanks for all the replies. I suppose developing on a Mac is the best way to develop for a Mac Browser. I can't trust Windows for anything important (apart from testing) anymore anyway. I'm not a hardcore gamer so I can look at the Mac Mini or Macbook as well. I'll see what my wallet says in a few months. Have fun -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Developing for Mac Browsers
Joe Ortenzi wrote: There will be a new announcement this week, I'm sure, so hold on to your hats for the moment, but coming this week there is sure to be a god deal on Intel MacsBooks and Minis. Will the atheists have a good deal too? -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Developing for Mac Browsers
Hi I'm tossing up whether to buy a Mac or to save my money and buy a new PC and just have Linux and Windows on it. I've read that Safari for Windows will help Web Developers without a Mac be able to develop for that. Is there a difference between Mac versions of browsers like Firefox and Safari or can I safely develop in non Mac versions and expect my web sites to behave the same on the Mac? Currently my main OS is Kubuntu but I'll soon be trialling Red Hat Desktop 5 Multi OS. Thanks -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Test
Hi, The duplicate posts are coming from a Globe IT server in the Netherlands. I have blocked the IP address 217.148.170.240 So we'll see if this message comes back... Please don't reply to this post. Peter Firminger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript
I would endorse any recommendations for Jeremy Keith's book. Superb stuff! I would say it's a great place to start. You need to understand all the issues he raises such as degradation (in the event of the client having JS switched off in the browser etc. JK just has such a good way of explaining a good DOM scripting approach. Sorry, I don't know the book you have. HTH Peter Goddard Developer/Programmer PSI Global Ltd, Bowburn, Durham DH6 5AD, UK T: +44 (0) 191 3774742 F: +44 (0) 191 3770769 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Lecoat Sent: 27 November 2007 14:05 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript On 27/11/07 (13:17) James said: Hi Rick, I can't comment on the Visual Quickstart book as I haven't read it, but having only just started really looking at Javascript myself, I can vouch for Jeremy Keith's book being very good indeed. I have found it very easy to read (each chapter takes about 20-30 minutes to go through properly) and it has meant I have been able to implement unobtrusive DOM scripting to enhance pages and solve problems I've had hanging around for ages. I would suggest that even if the Visual Quickstart book is good, that it may be worth spending the time with the Keith book too. Hope that helps, James Thanks James, that's really helpful. I think I already know that I'm going to be buying Jeremy Keith's book, truth be told (having been looking at a bunch of reviews of it on Amazon etc since I posted to the list). Still, if anyone has an opinion on the Visual Quickstart book as well, I'd be interested to hear it, just so I know whether it's worth glancing at *at all*. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Best way to clear a float
re - using the 'clearfix' fix... as a way of clearing floats by
not adding any additional markup
i've always thought that argument was a bit of a stretch. You are
adding extra markup - and its hardcoded presentational markup. What
happens when you have class=clearfix all through your code and then
you have a bit of a design makeover and some areas that were
previously clearing floats are now doing something different? not only
do you have to change the css, you've also got to change html to move
some of the clearfix classes around.
As others have said there's not one best solution - it'll depend on
your situation.
Using divs that are already there to do the clearing is, i think,
best. My second favourite is using a hr (*if* its a meaningful
separation of content) and then applying
{clear:both;visibility:hidden} to the hr to do the clearing.
as a last resort if i had to add some extra markup to do it, i'd
favour an empty clearing div over an extra class on a parent div (the
clearfix method). Yeah its a little dirty, but in some cases i've
found its easier to maintain when handed over to other
teams/developers/cowboys.
just my 2c :)
pete ottery
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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I will be out of the office on Thursday 08/16/07 and Friday 08/17/07. I will be back in the office on Monday 06/20/07. I will be on vacation and not checking email or voicemail during this time. I will respond to all emails when I return. Thanks, Pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: *****SPAM***** digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
I will be out of the office on Thursday 06/21/07 and Friday 06/22/07. I will be back in the office on Monday 06/25/07. I will be on vacation and not checking email or voicemail during this time. I will respond to all emails when I return. Thanks, Pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Javascript problem
Try the following. It will check to see if the element exists before executing
the alternateRows() function.
addLoadEvent(function() {
if(document.getElementById(caseStudiesTable)) {
alternateRows(caseStudiesTable,6,colors);
}
});
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Collins
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:57 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Javascript problem
Hi all,
I hope this is on topic, please ignore it if not, I have a small
Jscript problem that shouldn't be hard to sort out, but I am not great
with these things...
I have a script that adds colours to a all the columns in a table. It
works fine, the only problem is, it is trying to apply the code to all
pages, when the table is only on a couple. So when I am viewing all
other pages, it comes up with this error:
document.getElementById(tableID) has no properties
So, what I would like to do, is add a checker to the script to see if
the table actually exists before doing the rest of the code.
Unfortunately, I am a novice to this and I've been stuffing around for
a while and can't get it to work.
Here is the teh script, it is worth mentioning that this is the only
table on the site, so that may help with the re-working of the code,
although it would be nice to have a checker that looks for the
specific table id.
Thanks in advance:
// script to add alternating table background colours
var colors=[#E5D9DB,#C5D3D8,#DBCBBE,#E9DBC7,#D4E0E0,#C5CEC7];
function alternateRows(tableID,numberOfColors,colorArray){
var
trs=document.getElementById(tableID).getElementsByTagName(TD);
len=trs.length;
var myColors=colorArray.slice(0,numberOfColors);
while(len--){
trs[len].style.backgroundColor=colors[len%myColors.length];
}
}
// add onload event
addLoadEvent(function() {
alternateRows(caseStudiesTable,6,colors);
}
);
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Re: [WSG] ABC News Online have a new website
Brad wrote: Really enjoying the new ABC News website here in Australia. http://abc.net.au/news/ ditto - love it. an amazing achievement to get that up and out. i particularly like the nice little attention to detail like the css hovers/icons on the links and the inline video. the video section itself is hot too - the my playlist thing is very slick. although the play playlist link could scream out a bit more. someone out there on the list must have been involved :) surely give us the goss about how it went/is going. congrats. pete ottery *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Netscape 9
In case you hadn't heard: http://www.avinio.blogspot.com/2007/06/netscape-navigator-90-released-first. html http://browser.netscape.com/ P *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Map of Australia Image Map
re - Has anybody seen or created way of displaying States on hover using CSS only? Hi Felisimina, have a look at the front of http://www.domain.com.au/ i worked on a previous version a while ago (so dont shoot me for any other code on the site ;-) it uses a sprite image for the hover - check it out - http://www.domain.com.au/stylesheets/ImagesZeus/mapAusSmall.gif basically the technique described under Irregular shapes in http://alistapart.com/articles/sprites hope this helps, pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Map of Australia Image Map
Paul wrote: Of course the problem was made easier by the fact that most of the borders between Australian states are on the horizontal or vertical, but you handled the major exception between NSW and VIC excellently by expressing ACT as a strategically-placed and -sized rectangle. Good work! ha :) thru the wonders of archiving tho I dug up my original which left the state borders as-is: http://c41.com.au/map/ yep, its not perfect, the hover doesn't crossover exactly on the borders because we've only got rectangles to work with in a box model - but i thought this worked pretty well considering. pete *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Photo gallery markup semantics
I think the issue may be with how the browser is handling spaces/tabs/carriage returns in the html file. Removing the spacing in your page through firebug produced a similar affect as the table display. Peter Leing -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Robb Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:36 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Photo gallery markup semantics Hello friends, I'm marking up a group of (maybe 25-50) anchored images. They need to be held tight to a grid, and I want about 6 or 8 to a row. Here is the (lazy) table based solution: http://bws.jasonrobb.com/collections/ I've considered a few different approaches. I want to know: What is the most semantic way to go about this? [Note: trimmed down code] 1) Using DIV's to hold the anchored images: div a href=img //a a href=img //a /div 2) Another method with a UL: ul lia href=img /a//li lia href=img /a//li /ul 3) My least favorite (and likely wrong) choice - with a table: table tr tda href=img //a/td tda href=img //a/td /tr /table It's been pickin' my brain for days. The main reason I even considered a table is because the anchors leave an empty space between the images. I've set up a test page here: http://bws.jasonrobb.com/content/image-test.html What do you think is causing that extra space? How can I avoid/remove it? Thanks in advance, Jason Robb www.eleventy72.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** NOTICE: The information contained in this message is intended for the addressess(s) only and may be confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged. If you have received this message in error or there are any problems with the transmission, please immediately notify us by return e-mail. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying, or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. The sender will not be liable for any damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third-party or as a result of any virus being transmitted. This notice is automatically appended to each e-mail message transmitted from the sender's e-mail domain. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Need help with CSS breadcrumbs and navigation
Try the following from http://www.hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml:
script and style elements in XHTML sent as text/html have to be
escaped using ridiculously complicated strings.
This is because in XHTML, script and style elements are #PCDATA
blocks, not #CDATA blocks, and therefore !-- and -- really _are_
comments tags, and are not ignored by the XHTML parser. To escape
script in an XHTML document which may be handled as either HTML4 or
XHTML, you have to use:
script type=text/javascript!--//--![CDATA[//!--
...
//--!]]/script
To embed CSS in an XHTML document which may be handled as either
HTML4 or XHTML, you have to use:
style type=text/css!--/*--![CDATA[/*!--*/
...
/*]]*/--/style
Yes, it's pretty ridiculous. If documents _aren't_ escaped like
this, then the contents of script and style elements get
dropped on the floor when parsed as true XHTML.
(This is all assuming you want your pages to work with older
browsers as well as XHTML browsers. If you only care about XHTML
and HTML4 browsers, you can make it a bit simpler.)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Rahe
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:36 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Need help with CSS breadcrumbs and navigation
Thanks Ben, but that wasn’t the problem. The problem is with the little bit of
JavaScript (when I comment it out, it validates, but doesn’t work in IE6)
Here is the message I get when trying to validate:
Below are the results of checking this document for XML well-formedness
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#sec-conformance and validity.
1. Error Line 11 column 29: character ; not allowed in attribute
specification list.
for (var i=0; isfEls.length; i++) {
✉
http://validator.w3.org/feedback.html?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bremenhospital.org%2Ftestsite%2Findex2.html;errmsg_id=81#errormsg
2. Error Line 11 column 29: element sfEls.length undefined.
for (var i=0; isfEls.length; i++) {
You have used the element named above in your document, but the document type
you are using does not define an element of that name. This error is often
caused by:
* incorrect use of the Strict document type with a document
that uses frames (e.g. you must use the Frameset document type to get the
frameset element),
* by using vendor proprietary extensions such as spacer or
marquee (this is usually fixed by using CSS to achieve the desired effect
instead).
* by using upper-case tags in XHTML (in XHTML attributes and
elements must be all lower-case.
✉
http://validator.w3.org/feedback.html?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bremenhospital.org%2Ftestsite%2Findex2.html;errmsg_id=76#errormsg
3. Error Line 21 column 8: end tag for sfEls.length omitted, but OMITTAG
NO was specified.
/script
You may have neglected to close an element, or perhaps you meant to
self-close an element, that is, ending it with / instead of .
Chris Rahe
Executive Director of Marketing and Development
1020 High Road - P. O. Box 8
Bremen, IN 46506
Telephone 574.546.8011
Facsimile 574.546.4312
Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Dodson
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:27 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Need help with CSS breadcrumbs and navigation
Hi there,
The reason it's not validating is because you haven't unescaped the spaces in
your URLs - replace all spaces with %20 and you should be fine :-)
Ben
--
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://www.bendodson.com/
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Re: [WSG] IE hacking.
re Perhaps this could be forwarded to Microsoft as I am a customer and have asked them to build a standards compliant browser and yet they have chosen to ignore me. I for one think Microsoft deserve massive kudos. They *are* doing all they can to make IE7 a decent standards compliant browser. Yeah, it was a while coming, but things could be worse. pete o ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] .net question
Dear Kevin I'm a .net developer, working entirely in web standards and producing semantically correct xhtml output from server side code. There is little or no exra effort required to produce output on a web page (in ASP.NET - a web form) that meets web standards. Your developer can output data to the user interface using a Repeater control and item templates that you can format for him. You don't need to develop composite controls for this, although you can. In any event, if the output needs to be formatted in a composite control then all well and good. This is just extending the maintainability and reuse that both css in design and object oriented code development (all .net is OO) promote. This concept is tried and tested. The developer is essentially crossing boundaries here. If he cannot accept the extra effort required to bring an .aspx page into the design that you have produced, why not suggest that you sit with him and iron out the bugs. I would even suggest that you consider picking up the basics of aspx page development, not the code, but the web controls that are available in .net and see if you can suggest how you can work more closely on the output generated by the server to ensure that he understands the benefits of a collaboration. I'm in the fortunate (IMHO) position of working on both aspects of the web application, so I understand the dichotomy that exists in this scenario. Basically, a coder is mostly concerned with the complex wiring of an application and is basically satisfied that the application runs correctly, behaves according to the specification and handles errors gracefully, whilst operating as efficiently as the server environment allows. The designer is anxious to control the output to the user interface and to ensure this meets the design brief. The two parties are really working towards the same goal. They just start from opposite ends of the process. From what you say, selling the concept of web standards to the developer is not going to be the answer. Instead try to encourage him to work with you and ask him to help you understand the issues he faces. If you go to the meeting on Monday expecting a bloodbath, that is what will happen irrespective of what attitude the developer brings to the table. It will do neither you nor the developer any good if this happens, and the cause of web standards will not have won any support. I urge you to believe strongly enough in your arguments to not wield them as a weapon. Believe it or not, Microsoft, who get plenty of criticism (sometimes justifiably) have made all the tools available to developers to build standards compliant applications. The Developer Qualifiactions (MCAD, MCSD and the new Microsoft .net exams) all promote web standards based application development. If the developer has chosen to work with this technology, encourage him to embrace the principles of good application design. I wish you all the very best with this. If I can be of any help please contact me off list. Peter Goddard -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn Sent: 16 March 2006 22:03 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .net question thanks geoff, i guess thats i will have to be level headed in my aproach. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] .net question
I'm an ASP.NET programmer, so I know. I actually have the reverse problem. The designer I work with doesn't have the faintest idea about standards and I'm the one cleaning out the layout tables. Nice one Ben! Sack the designer! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Wong Sent: 16 March 2006 23:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .net question On 3/17/06, kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you would like to see some examples of what im talking about heres one of the 1st sites i did with the programmer in question. notice the special offers section and the reservations form-when he got it there wasnt a table in site. http://www.shandonhotel.com/ What's wrong with the special offers section? I would've done it as a table too. Maybe you could use a table, but it looks enough like tablular data to use a table. I'm with you on the reservations form though. I assume the programmer's done it as a user control if he's any good. Using a definition list for the content in the middle is going a bit overboard, isn't it? Personally, I don't see much evidence of him hacking up your design in the site, apart from the reservation form. It could be much, much worse. I'm an ASP.NET programmer, so I know. I actually have the reverse problem. The designer I work with doesn't have the faintest idea about standards and I'm the one cleaning out the layout tables. -- Ben Wong e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://blog.onehero.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] .net question
Peter Goddard wrote:-- I would even suggest that you-- consider picking up the basics of aspx page development, not the code,-- but the web controls that are available in .net and see if you can -- suggest how you can work more closely ...a great informative post Peter.Another vote here for the collaborative approach.I was in a similar situation with a .NET dev guy and took the what can I do to make this easier for you approach to the meeting. He ended up installing Visual Studio on my machine, pointed me in the direction of the templates repeatable elements, and I looked after all the html/css framework for him. the collaboration had other knock-on positive side effects and he's now an avid css advocate :) cheers,pete o
RE: [WSG] .net question
Thanks Ben ASP.NET 2.0 makes this so much easier! ATB Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Wong Sent: 17 March 2006 10:38 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] .net question On 3/17/06, Peter Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm an ASP.NET programmer, so I know. I actually have the reverse problem. The designer I work with doesn't have the faintest idea about standards and I'm the one cleaning out the layout tables. Nice one Ben! Sack the designer! Awww, I'm not that harsh. I'll give him some time to steer away from the dark side. I've managed to stop him from using tables for structuring the site. I'm working on weening him off using them for forms. Anyway, I agree with your advice to Kevin. It would probably be good to get involved in the coding up of your design in ASP.NET. You wouldn't have to go all the way and become a full-on ASP.NET guru, just learn the basic server controls and how they are rendered in the browser. -- Ben Wong e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://blog.onehero.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] .net question
Hi Peter Its pleasing that mysuggestion seems to be making sense, given that i am a stand alone developer in a small company and its my first .net role! I think you are absolutely right, Peter, and your clear example illustrates that collaboration wins every time! Lets all wish Kevin the best of luck in sorting out this issue. All the best Peter Goddard From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter OtterySent: 17 March 2006 10:48To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] .net question Peter Goddard wrote: -- I would even suggest that you-- consider picking up the basics of aspx page development, not the code,-- but the web controls that are available in .net and see if you can -- suggest how you can work more closely ...a great informative post Peter.Another vote here for the collaborative approach.I was in a similar situation with a .NET dev guy and took the "what can I do to make this easier for you" approach to the meeting. He ended up installing Visual Studio on my machine, pointed me in the direction of the templates repeatable elements, and I looked after all the html/css framework for him. the collaboration had other knock-on positive side effects and he's now an avid css advocate :) cheers,pete o
Re: [WSG] maximum backward compartible to mobile phone (WAP) users? Which XHTML DTD?
re - My question is what is the best practice? What kind of DTD to choose? XHTML Basic? XHTML MP? i can offer a good link! :) http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/000398.html not sure if it answers all your question. its a 3 part series. the guy (cameron moll) is one of those rockstar designers that makes you sick with envy ;-) (ie: he's great) hth, pete ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] tableless layout stuff
Jack wrote: But does anyone have any idea how to put that alongside the title and image etc without using a table? or should i just use a table? Hi Jack, There shouldnt be any need for a table here. just mark your list up as a list and float your image to one side. something like this: http://c41.com.au/test/delphinus_example/index.html (css in the head so just view source) hoping thats what you meant :) pete ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Mollio
heya, I presented a session on CSS at the WebDU conference in Sydney last week. Part of the preso was the idea of having some simple pre-built CSS/HTML templates to use as a project *starting point*. a toolkit of sorts So I've put my own toolkit (called Mollio) up for public consumption in the hope that others will add to it, as I will continue to... http://www.mollio.org/ I've set up a new google group to discuss the templates. Its linked from the site. As we know, when it comes to CSS there's always more than one way to skin a cat so please keep in mind these templates are not intended to be the absolute best way of structuring your CSS/HTML. That always depends on your specific project. I do find these Mollio templates are useful to use as a starting point tho because the CSS/HTML has been constructed with robustness (is that a word?) in mind - to allow chunks of the code to be copied pasted between projects and your layout/content remains intact or requires little editing. Anyway, enough of the gabbing, drop by and check out Mollio if you get a chance. If youve got any thoughts about Mollio that would be of interest to the wider WSG group, I guess post back here on the WSG list - if not, drop by the Mollio Google Group and provide some feedback/suggestions/contributions there. cheers, pete ~~~ Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director Daemon Pty Ltd 17 Roslyn Gardens Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011 www.daemon.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] flash z-index conflict
Ted wrote: -- my lovely flash movie thinks it's the coolest thing on the planet and wants to sit on top of my lovely dropdown box. in the html code that calls your flash movie, add this: param name=WMode value=transparent let us know how you go pete ottery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: Recall: [WSG] Web design education
From: Herrod, Lisa Herrod, Lisa would like to recall the message, [WSG] Web design education. Lisa Herrod is funny :-) -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] suckerfish menu and position:relative woes
hiya, i dont like flyout menus as much as the next guy/girl but i have a situation that requires them, so i'm using the son of suckerfish menu [1]. i'm having a problem with adding position:relative to items below the menu, and those elements appearing on top of the flyout menus in IE. i've whipped up a barebones example with further explanation here: http://skunkworks.farcrycms.com/pot/temp/test.html the css js is wihtin the head of that page to allow easy copy pasting. as that page details, anyone got a tip that allows me to keep position:relative on that box but keeps the flyout menus on top (when they flyout) ? any help appreciated, cheers , pete [1] = http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] suckerfish menu and position:relative woes
Samuel wrote: have you tried setting the z-index on them? yeah, tried all sorts of z-index combinations (that i could think of) but still cant get it working. theres a short note at the bottom of that example page i put together... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
