which
gives the following error message:
Internet Explorer cannot open the internet site http://
www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_01.html.
Operation aborted.
It seems as if IE is striping off the #top fragment.
Anyone know how to fix this?
Thanks,
Bob Schwartz
2005 14:42:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE Madness
Bob Schwartz wrote:
On this page:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_02.html
I have a link at the bottom of the page (Back To Page One)
which should send a visitor to:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_01.html#top
I don't think it is a bug, it's just the result of not having jscript turned on (the menu is a p7 Pop Magic Menu, which is jscript driven).On 19 Aug, 2005, at 1:12 PM, Juergen Auer wrote:On 18 Aug 2005 at 9:58, Bob Schwartz wrote: On this page:http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_02
Thanks Al for the tip, though in this case those with jscript turned
off are going to have a lot of other problems on this site as well.
However, as I want everyone (within reason) to be able to use the
site, I will read the tutorial and see if I can tweak the menu to
display better for
site http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_01.html.Operation aborted.It seems as if IE is striping off the #top fragment.Anyone know how to fix this?Thanks,Bob Schwartz
Thanks Al, changing to pagetop seems to have done the trick.
On 19 Aug, 2005, at 4:57 PM, Al Sparber wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:
On this page:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_02.html
I have a link at the bottom of the page (Back To Page One)
which should send a visitor
Thanks, I followed a tip from Al Sparber and changed #top to #pagetop
and that seems to have done the trick.
Who knows what lurks in the mind of IE Windows
On 19 Aug, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Ingo Chao wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:
On this page:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/events/evnt_ga_res_2005_02
Oddly enough I've been thinking about making a similar post.
I would have said all you said and then added two more tidbits.
1. Just read on some blog (pointed to from this list) where doctypes
are useful only for validation, otherwise of no use.
2. A friend just got back into the web
a complicated layout to work in as many browsers.
I'm all for standards and everything else this list is about, but I
do feel we might be spending a lot of time preparing for a State
Dinner when what we are really going to attend is a come-as-you-
are BBQ in the backyard.
On 04/12/05, Bob
Exactly where in my posts did I say I create web sites in the style
of my friend?
On 12/4/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
None of those. I just mentioned that I was unable to convice my
friend to change his ways and his strongest reason not to was his
(fairly complicated) site
of having to maintain that sort of code
would eliminate any thought of reverting to the old school way of
making web sites.
On 12/5/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Exactly where in my posts did I say I create web sites in the style
of my friend?
On 12/4/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL
Lachlan,
By far, the most important issue facing beginners with regards to
standards is the separation of semantics, presentation and
behavioural layers into well structured, valid, non-presentational
markup; CSS and javascript, respectively, and it sounds like you've
already made
Donna,in another thread, someone essentially asked "why code like this", in trying to convince a friend. I don't think he's getting very good answers but at any rate, it made me think of a "problem" I'm having and I've decided to make a new thread. I've noticed that responses to your similar
//a/div
3. body onload=P7_setNV('p7NVim10',2);P7_trigNV()
This one all alone on the page, with no linked JS in the head:
div id=copy
script type=text/javascript
var d=new Date();
yr=d.getFullYear();
if (yr!=2003)
document.write(copy; +yr);
/scriptnbsp;Cedar Tree Books
/div
Bob
Bob Schwartz
Lachlan,I'm going to take your much appreciated response one bit at a time.By doing as you suggested, I lose the point of having used the JS in the first place.(For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume that having the copyright notices reflect the current year is a desired thing).With the
a year like that, it
SHOULD be enshrined in markup (which means static or server-side
processing).
On 12/7/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lachlan,
I'm going to take your much appreciated response one bit at a time.
By doing as you suggested, I lose the point of having used the JS
But CSS is the de-facto preferred way of defining layout of (X)HTML
documents, and using tables for layout is a case of ignoring a
particular
item in the HTML spec.
Maybe I'm behind in my CSS religious training, but...
I've found the need to use one table as a base layout because I still
, no regrets (unless I'm tossed out of
the garden).
From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
But CSS is the de-facto preferred way of defining layout of (X)HTML
documents, and using tables for layout
Thanks,
Sometime it is absolutely positioned.
Couldn't the if floated solution be considered a hack? :-}
It is starting to sound as if my reasons for using one table once-and-
awhile are still valid and that there are still some height issues
with divs.
Bob Schwartz
I've found
I mis-spoke (maybe), the issue is not the horiz centered box, it is
the box expanding in height according to its contents. (ie the whole
box expands in height according to the content in the main cell).
(Some clients don't want 100% height).
From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg
I'm not trying to center, the issue is height and more correctly
height which expands to fit content of nested divs and probably even
more correctly a box with columns in it which expands all columns to
be equal in height to the one with the most content.
Bob Schwartz
Couldn't
I use this:
http://blog.deconcept.com/2005/03/31/proper-flash-embedding-
flashobject-best-practices/
Guys and Gals,
A problem I have ignored all too long is Flash and XHTML. The
problem lies in the embed tag and its attributes of course. I
have of course read the alistapart articles
Christian,
On 12/12/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm not trying to center, the issue is height and more correctly
height which expands to fit content of nested divs and probably even
more correctly a box with columns in it which expands all columns to
be equal in height to the one
There is one browser with issues, not the specs.
Which browser can correctly render the following:
3 columns, no height defined and a background color different from
that of the body
in column 1 goes a 1000px high image
in column 2 goes a 750px high image
in column 3 goes a 500px high
I'd rather have that single, easy to spot hack, which adds very
little overhead, than multiple background images and extra divs
coupled with hyroglyphics in my css file.
Amen
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See
On 12/13/05, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is one browser with issues, not the specs.
Which browser can correctly render the following:
3 columns, no height defined and a background color different from
that of the body
in column 1 goes a 1000px high image
in column 2 goes
On 13 Dec, 2005, at 1:51 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
I'd rather have that single, easy to spot hack, which adds very
little overhead, than multiple background images and extra divs
coupled with hyroglyphics in my css file.
Amen
So, how are you going to style your single table? Either
Try it in IE Mac, you're in for a surprise.
2005/12/13, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
There is one browser with issues, not the specs.
Which browser can correctly render the following:
...
http://rimantas.com/bits/notable.html
Opera: since version 4.
Gecko browsers: works
Al,
Since, my whole point has been that using a simple layout table, as
opposed to a nested monstrosity, can sometimes be a good thing
I'm glad you are championing my original cause, which somehow got way
off course in the thread.
Not only can a simple table be a good thing, it is still
the non-table people that maybe there is an instance
in the real world where a table is not only OK, but probably THE
solution so I can fell less unpure:-} about using a table to solve
my problem.
Bob
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I had hoped for some real solutions when I posted my original
two cents
Rimantas,
Seems like you are not looking for solution, but for simple
encouragament
to stick with tables. Ok, if the only solution you are going to
accept is table,
Is there anything to gain in these discussions by you always being so
polemic
If you have nothing except snide remarks to
I once read on the A List Apart web site that a 550px wide text box
is about the limit of comfortable reading, so I use that as my base
rule for site design.
In the end it works out to 760px wide total content surrounded by
pretty colors in the margins.
Stephen Stagg wrote:
Slightly
Can't give you the stats but the 550px max width for text rule-of-
thumb I use sort of dictates image sizes. (about 250px - 300px wide
max).
I've also found with clients that I often have to design for thier
browser/monitor no matter my well-founded arguments to the contrary:-}
I thought
No can do Bob. I showed you the solution.
End of story: solution, choices made, move on :)
Yes Sir. Thank you Sir. I will just fold my table and slink away.
It's been a honor being in your illustrious presence.
I will return when I feel more worthy .
bob
Terrence.
Plus I don't want to get into the quirks of clients in this
thread, I'd like to concentrate on finding a solution to a real
problem that is as reliable (browser-wise) and as easy to
implement as it is with a table,
Sure... clients who needs them? But see the real problem is
Christian,
Do these table layouts go in your portfolio?
Since you asked. I have my very first site in my portfolio and it is
a nested table/spacer gif monster.
But except for you guys, I doubt if anyone has ever done a view
source on the site.
Do these clients
recommend you to others
Terrence,
Obviously you haven't found this thread helpful, but others have.
Oddly enough I have, though the (seems to be) answer came in off list.
If after doing some testing, the solution does indeed work as I need
it to, I will post it for those who remember what the original
question
Christopher,
+ getting into microformats
I guess I missed something along the way. Where can I find out more
about this?
Bob
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
I would do a preload images on the body tag for the over state
images since as it is they seem to load for the first time when you
do a mouse over.
bob
Hi everyone, happy after holiday,
I have a CSS rollover flickering problem that not just occurs in IE
but all browsers.
The problem
I am in the process of converting my javascript library to
nonobtrusive js.
I bought a few books and with them, managed to convert most, but I
still have a few that defy my very limited skills.
Where could I go for help in converting these?
Thanks.
);
testdiv.appendChild(para);
}
and think I know where it is wrong
I need to get it to write the year (ex-document +yr) in the () of the
txt2 node, but I don't know how to do it.
I also don't think the if (yr!=2003) from the old js is necessary,
but I may be wrong
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I am
Darren
On 01/03/07, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I am in the process of converting my javascript library to
nonobtrusive js.
Where could I go for help in converting these?
Here, for one place. Can you be more specific about the problems
Nick,
Thanks. Now that I see how you have done it, I may be able to guess
my way through the others I have to do.
Is there a ( missing in the second line of your version?
On 1 Mar 2007, at 14:44:59, Bob Schwartz wrote:
var d=new Date();yr=d.getFullYear();if (yr!=2003)document.write
Rolf ,
Thanks for the info.
On Mar 1, 2007, at 6:53 AM, Bob Schwartz wrote:
On 01/03/07, Mordechai Peller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I am in the process of converting my javascript library to
nonobtrusive js.
Where could I go for help in converting these?
Here
Paul,
I agree with you and as I am trying to learn this stuff I'm going one
step at a time in the hopes that I can one day drop the crutches I
needed an example of how to put a js string in a text string.
The next step will be to try and figure out how (I have some examples
that I am
Paul,
Unobtrusive javascript doesn't just mean separation of the script
from the markup, it is also the use of javascript that doesn't
break the page when scripting is disabled.
http://onlinetools.org/articles/unobtrusivejavascript/chapter1.html
Further thoughts on this statement:
Michael,
Thank you for the information.
If we were in a perfect world it just might be reasonable to try and
be as legal as possible, but reality is that the copyright notice is
almost useless in that it only gives a (false) sense of protection,
to actualy be protected is another matter.
Michael,
Another point. All the sites I do have something in them updated at
least once a year, so the copyright (current year) would reflect the
year of last revision.
On 3/2/07, Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Please generate the notice
server-side -- or hard-code it into the
What are currently accepted practices for using noscript for
serving content to those with js turned off?
In particular I'm talking about eye candy things on a web page that
do not take away from the content if the non js visitor is served a
static equivalent as opposed to a you need js to
);
container.replaceChild(p, oldtext);
p.appendChild(document.createTextNode(text));
document.getElementById(copy).appendChild(p);
}
html
div id=copyp id=copy1copy; 2007 Fédération Internationale
Féline/p/div
On 5 Mar 2007, at 13:52:35, Bob Schwartz wrote:
What are currently
Ian,
The only think I would add is a check to make sure that a browser
understands the methods you are using. Avoiding an error caused
because a browser doesn't understand var container =
document.getElementById(copy) is almost as important as making
sure that the site works without
I'm reworking a site to get it up to web standards.
Tables should be used only to contain tabular data
Would current accepted practices be:
If it can be done without a table that should be first choice.
or
Is there a definition of what is considered tabular data (or is it in
the eyes of
Thanks, I'll update my code.
Getting there and learning in the process.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
like this in the load function?
if (!document.getElementsById) return false;
Bob
Yes, just like that. I think my favourite method (as used by PPK at
http://www.quirksmode.org/) is to use
to use for making decisions in the
future as to what can be put in a table.
Bob
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Is there a definition of what is considered tabular data (or is it
in the eyes of the beholder)?
Would this be acceptable for using a table:
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/org
Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows.
Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG? (ie
served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices, etc. -
leave aside the js argument, as that I have solved).
The target is not used, it is popup via js or regular window without.
Canons! The religion of W3C! All praise to the W3C
Only the transitional doctype is available for new window targets,
not the strict compliance with W3C Papal enclyclicals.
Tim
On 07/03/2007, at 9:05 PM, Bob Schwartz
Al,
Got an example somewhere?
I Googled around but only found references, not a working iframe.
From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Example would be a page with a sort of table of contents which
lists minutes of the past five years board meeting, the user
clicks on one, it pops up
(http://
www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/) but its not yet ready
for release as I havent fully stress tested it.
Cheers,
David.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows.
Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG?
(ie served
/) but its not yet ready
for release as I havent fully stress tested it.
Cheers,
David.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Problem: client wants (insists on having) popup windows.
Question: can they be made OK according to all canons of WSG?
(ie served in a different/alternative manner for people, devices
First a disclaimer:
This post does not reflect my personal views on web accessibility or
handicapped persons, it is merely a collection of academic thoughts
triggered by various posts of the past few days.
How and why did the web get singled out from among all of the other
publishing
At the risk of seeming an idiot:
As I go through a site overhaul, I pop my questions here as they come
up so...
Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for
accessibility?
I suppose if I could see the devices handicapped people use to surf,
I would better
Someone made a comment the other day about my empty table cells which
are marked as such;
tdnbsp;/td
Should they be only:
td/td
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Mike,
Thanks for the information.
Yes, I have an idea, but never having seen any of the devices people
talk about here, I often have doubts about what I think I have
understood.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Do database driven, dynamically created asp pages pass muster for
accessibility
That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide remark
about them on a test page I had put up, so I just thought I'd double
check.
No, they should be marked up as:
tdnbsp;/td
Reasoning: if you don't put a holder into the cell and you
select a border (or not) the cell border
Chris,
Also, from you(?) (has been fixed), but there was a reference from
someone else as to the need for all the nbsp's that populate the
empty cells.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide
remark about them on a test page I had put up, so I
I thinks this would help,
http://www.friendsofed.com/download.html?isbn=1590595335
DOM Scripting
he have somes examples it's allowed to download, in chapter 11 on
contact.html see the example.
And if u buy the book u will learn some good stuff .
If you (or anyone else reading this) are in or
So, according the the site Georg posted, the world's most used
browser does not support the empty-cells property.
In light of that bit of news, would tdnbsp;/td still be
considered the wrong answer?
Shelley Purvis wrote:
No, they should be marked up as:
tdnbsp;/td
Bzzzt - wrong answer
What is the current best practice for style sheets - imported or
linked - and why?
Bob
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Help:
to be picked up by most modern browsers. Netscape
4 and below and IE 4 and below do not support the @import rule.
This allows you to target stylesheets to specific browser versions.
Does that make sense?
On 3/15/07, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the current best practice
: http://ele.vation.co.uk
On 15/03/07, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Makes sense and I already knew that.
The reason behind my post has to do with me noticing a trend
towards importing style sheets and I was curious if this was the
current best practice and if so, why.
Bob
Using
are ignored.
I've never seen this happen with any browser I've ever used.
Is the information on this site by any chance out-of-date by a lot?
There's a good explaination here:
http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/web/html/ch09_01.html
(Scroll down to 'Linked Versus Imported Style Sheets')
Dave.
From: Bob
The test site at
http://www.fotografics.it/fife/
has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant,
before moving on to the accessibility layer I would appreciate it
if you guys could check it out for any errors or wrong practices
Thanks,
bob
You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change
from the
declared natural language of the page (English).
Thanks for you tips Stuart:
1. How do I do that?
2.I'm curious as to why you think it is necessary - it is the name
of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani
Thanks Lyn,
During the planning for the site re-do we relied pretty heavily on a
year's worth of visitor stats in making decisions.
One of the things our stats showed us was the very low percentage of
800 x 600 and below visitors we had, plus people were complaining
that the site was
Thanks Kenny,
I would appreciate it if
you guys could check it out for any errors or wrong practices
Most/every page has two h1's, and there should only be one per page.
Ideally, you should keep the h1 for the page title, but not for the
site title.
I've fixed these (not yet uploaded to
Nick,
As no screenreaders read title attributes by default (and no
screenreader user ever changes the default setting, apparently) you
aren't really deriving any benefit (at least in accessibility
terms) from the title attributes, so they might as well go.
They were originally put there
Stuart,
Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different
destinations -
introduction, current and members. When you can see the menu
structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader
this can
This is a real head-scratcher.
I'm having trouble finding other words
Rob,
The navigation is dependent on javascript for the flyouts which not
only
do the flyouts cease to work when js is turned off they also become
dead
links leaving only a partial working menu.
What browser - OS are you using?
In everything I've checked it in, the links are not dead with
In the test site I put up the other day for scrutiny http:///
www.fotografics.it/fife/
I have discovered a funny one with IE 6
If you go to organization ---commissions--- any commission except show
you should see an image beside the list of names.
The image is attached as a background to the
OK, you convinced me.
Your reason for doing so is far more valid than my lame reasoning
with the Danone and Armani examples.
Thanks.
On Tue, March 20, 2007 11:56 am, Bob Schwartz wrote:
You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change
from the
declared natural language
I ran my style sheets through the w3 validator and in the style sheet
that comes with ThickBox I got the following errors.
They seem to me to be CSS hacks that the author has used to solve
problems with different browsers.
Should I leave them, or fix them?
#TB_overlay
Parse Error -
In my primary style sheet I got 29 warnings like this:
Same colors for color and background-color in two contexts .month and h5
As there are no h5's with a .month class anywhere in the site, I
would assume I can just ignore these types of warnings, but it bugs
me that the style sheet does
Kenny,
Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite
can be styled directly.
I took the cites out of the paragraphs and the page did not pass w3
validation, I put them back in and it did.
Bob
***
Philip,
It looks like the site may have problems displaying at widths of
less than
1000px in Opera 9 and Firefox. The backgrounds don't stay within
the three
columns properly, leaving some text unreadable. Probably an issue
with div
positioning, and the box model since the problem
Stuart,
Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different
destinations -
introduction, current and members. When you can see the menu
structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader
this can
be confusing.
OK. I've fixed them all but one and I'm at a loss to how
Stuart,
I did as you suggested.
I now have another bi-lingual site to do and was wondering if there
is a way to mark up for languages (Italian/English) something like:
linome/name/li
span class perhaps? Seems like it would add a lot of bytes to the page.
The declared language on the
Here's my problem:
I need to have all the pages on a site fill the page at 100% of page
height if lots of content or 100% of browser window iif short on
content with the footer sitting nicely at the bottom in both cases in
both IE 6 and IE7. Something I had no problems with until IE7
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/05/2007 9:19:37 pm
Thanks, this one seems to be the best I've found so far. I'll take it
for a test drive.
Hope this will solve the problem:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/examples/csslayout1.html
regards
Puneet
Original Message:
-
From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL
:
-
From: Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:41:10 +0200
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] 100% height
Here's my problem:
I need to have all the pages on a site fill the page at 100% of page
height if lots of content or 100% of browser window iif short
I have been at it all day and no luck.
Anyone who would like to help can see some test pages at:
http://www.fotografics.it/test/
The problem is explained on the pages.
Bob
let us know how you go
I myself are in the middle of a website were I need something
similar and it works fine
I'll try that, but I was sort of following:
http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/
which suggests to leave it outside.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I have been at it all day and no luck.
Anyone who would like to help can see some test pages at:
http://www.fotografics.it/test
Some users have complained that when they go to this page
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html
and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the requested
file
My Windows (server 2000) testing computer has
Thanks to all who responded.
Some users have complained that when they go to this page
http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/lib/lib_current.html
and try to download the linked files with IE 7 they get a message
stating something like Explorer is unable to download the
requested file
My Windows
it out (and in IE7, if possible).
http://www.fgtestserver.net/rain/index.html
Thanks,
Bob Schwartz
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I have a client who wants a page personalized for him similar to this:
http://www.vermiip.es/il-mio-ip/
so people can discover their IP.
I have Googled about trying to find code that does it, but all I find
are site that do it.
Does anyone know (have) the code?
Bob Schwartz
that's a relief, one down. one to go.
Thanks,
bob
Hi Bob,
Can't help you with ie6 but thought I would let you know that it
seems to be fine in IE7.
Cheers
Adam
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I have a site in progress that is currently pixel perfect in all
real browsers, it's all over the screen
.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I have a site in progress that is currently pixel perfect in all
real browsers, it's all over the screen in IE 6 (don't yet know about
IE7).
IE7 is doing fine :-)
http://www.fgtestserver.net/rain/index.html
IE6' margin-doubling on floats bug is causing most damage.
Adding
Georg,
I'm still getting a problem with the area under the tabs, IE is
showing about 25px of the content background (con-cen) above the top
content curve (con-top)
In other words, the con-top div is looking to be 25px or so under con-
mnu.
Bob Schwartz wrote:
http
Thanks James,
Only one minor problem, I know nearly nothing about PHP.
How would I write this up?
Bob
For something that simple you could use PHP and use $_SERVER
['REMOTE_ADDR']
www.php.net
James
On Nov 10, 2007 1:41 PM, Bob Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a client who wants
problem fixed, and others broken.
I just dearly love IE6.
There's fresher version on my site (with your fixes in).
Bob Schwartz wrote:
I'm still getting a problem with the area under the tabs, IE is
showing about 25px of the content background (con-cen) above the
top content curve (con
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