[WSG] something for your managers and clients

s/ index.html John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: WebEssentials Sept 2004 Sydney Australia ::

Re: [WSG] web standards related rss feeds?

/dog_or_higher/index.rdf Maxine at westciv does Redemption Through Standards http://westciv.typepad.com/standards/index.rdf and you'll find a swag of great web development blogs in her blog roll john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ sof

Re: [WSG] HTML & CSS references

compatibility guides, and so on. Or you can purchase an enhanced version, and it comes free with Style Master. Plus come to the Web Essentials Free Education and Government Briefing http://we04.com/education.cfm Where you might win it as a door prize. 'nuff plugg

Re: [WSG] guide to CSS inheritance

say only block level elements, then its inline children would not inherit such properties. This bit is just unchecked conjecture. HTH, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: st

Re: [WSG] guide to CSS inheritance

John, Seeing this email reminded me of something. Yes, some CSS properties are inherited and some aren't. Inheritance depends on *specificity*, which can be reduced to a mathematical formula, as in this quote from the definitive O'Reilly book by Eric Meyer, where it says: H1 {color: red;}

Re: [WSG] Table-Free Design

s you can reuse royalty and attribution free. http://www.westciv.com/style_master/ HTH john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/d

Re: [WSG] NYTimes.com Article: Microsoft Quits a U.N. Standards Group

quot; IP laws between the US and Australia by *Australia adopting US laws in toto*. Anyway, this is way off topic in some respects, but right on topic in others. john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a sta

[WSG] CSS competition

close October 4th. All categories to be judged by our judges Molly Holzschlag and Paul Scrivens, with the winners announced October 18th. Check our site for more details. http://www.westciv.com/style_master/templates/index.html Regards John John Allsopp

Re: [WSG] Brisbane Meeting, Wednesday

sbane Weds night, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: WebEssentials Sept 2004 Sydney Australia ::

Re: [WSG] Brisbane Meeting, Wednesday

Thanks Gary, I think the train is winning, and I am staying right near one of the city stops See you weds, John Taxi - or the train (they call it Airtrain - just because it comes from the Airport). John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com

Re: [WSG] Brisbane meeting tonight

Thanks Lea, Miss the meeting and you miss meeting John Allsopp - you don't want to miss that opportunity, surely! ;) but if there is a low turn out, I'll take it personally people :-) See you tonight, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.w

Re: [WSG] Brisbane Meeting, Wednesday

list & getting help ****** John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ ::

Re: [WSG] WSG Melbourne: Meet Doug Bowman and Dave Shea

Aaron, I live in the inner south east (caulfield area) of melbourne, so i'm hoping it will be reasonably close. these guys crossed the globe. I reckon crossing town is no super hardship :-) john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ sof

Re: [WSG] Mac Tools Kit for Web Standards Developer

=mwweek-0719 John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: WebEssentials Sept 2004 Sydney Australia :: http

[WSG] Firefox and web development

based sites. Simple things like using text-sizing, things like plug ins, if it is part of your development and test regime, I'd love to hear about it. Please email me directly, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and I'll let the list know about the results. Thanks in advance, Jo

[WSG] westciv templates competition results

Hi all, just a quick note on our templates competition. We've announced our winners, please take a look http://www.westciv.com/style_master/templates/index.html We had almost 50 entries, many of considerable quality. Good to see how far CSS based design has come in the last few years. John

Re: [WSG] westciv templates competition results

are across a lot of the issues (including Russ) and we came out with the results we did. Thanks, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http:/

Re: [WSG] Ten questions for John Allsopp

ff-topic to say "congratulations"? I guess it is, but can I just point out that it hasn't quite happened yet, as the interview went out earlier than anticipated. Which is off topic, 'cept for the fact it is in a WSG interview with me ;-) Thanks, john John Allsopp

Re: [WSG] Ten questions for John Allsopp

Cam, Trust soft Australian journalists not to ask the tough questions, such as how much drug consumption was going on backstage at WE04 prior to the WWWF smackdown. We had fantales, minties and water for all the speakers :-) I think the overseas speakers we bemused by the first two J John Allsopp

Re: [WSG] Font-size issue on Mac

different browsers. http://westciv.com/style_master/house/good_oil/dao/index.html http://westciv.com/style_master/house/good_oil/not_paper/index.html john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web

Re: [WSG] New Windows

Ben, John has just posted an interesting piece about this... http://westciv.typepad.com/standards/2004/11/another_way_of_.html Actually it was Maxine :-) And it is a good little discussion of the practical issues John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com

Re: [WSG] pop quiz: calculating specificity of group selectors

://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ****** John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for

[WSG] pop quiz: calculating specificity of group selectors

nks, interested in people's thoughts, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ ** The

Re: [WSG] XHTML Basic 1.0

r chunks. XHTML Basic, as you are probably no aware, is a subset of XHTML, devised particularly for lightweight devices. I believe XHTML Basic + CSS Mobile Profile (a small subset of CSS) were supposed to be astandards basd way of replacing WAPML (or whatever WAPs htmlish markup language

Re: [WSG] Ways to minimise CSS file

https://order.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=WC3&& and only for a limited time (until Maxine finds out :-) thanks, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources for a standards based web style master blog http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ http://www.westciv.com/

[WSG] He said she said :-) FIR and other such techniques

Hi all, John Allsopp (one of the original CSS guru's) explains this better than I can... He says "If it is bad to put presentation on the page, how much worse is it to put presentation inside the CSS file? It is fundamentally unsound." Russ, Perhaps this quote of John Allso

Re: [WSG] He said she said :-) FIR and other such techniques

ography (a thing of beauty don't get me wrong) Congrats on StyleMaster BTW! many thanks, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources for a standards based web style master blog http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ http://

Re: [WSG] He said she said :-) FIR and other such techniques

content is still available if the decoration is not. But if the image is not available there is no content. john John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources for a standards based web style master blog http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ http://www.w

Re: [WSG] New CSS site

Peter, Now THIS is why I love CS - I've just increased the contrast a little. Easss now you are getting it :-) john John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources for a standards based web style master blog http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ http://www.westci

Re: [WSG] Design Philosophy

Alan and Dez, While John Allsopp does have some fairly strident views on web design* which make for good discussions, based on the criterion you set out in your first post, I think John would entirely agree, ie. I think strongly thought out and consistent would be a slightly better

[WSG] APC magazine anti standards article

Hi all, anyone got a link to or can send me the text of that recent anti standards article mentioned here at APC? Thanks, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com

Re: [WSG] APC magazine anti standards article

p.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ***** John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.ty

Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...

Mike et al. Sorry but there isn’t a place for sooner or later it'll cease working. Go to Andy's article, and try replacing the words "table" and "table layout" with "font tag". Works a treat, Sigh, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.c

Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...

can't talk respect on every other song or just every other day." He's talking to the rappers of today, but it's a bit like that with standards and accessibility. It is a commitment to something important, and like human rights, ethics, and other important things its not simply so

Re: [WSG] XHTML/HTML

the version just prior to 4.0) or 4.0. Not quite. What it will accept is documents marked up in accordance with the HTML 4.0 Transitional doctype rules. These do not entirely conform to HTML 3.2 Hope this is in some ways useful John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ s

[WSG] Informal Bondi/Eastern Suburbs meetup

Hi all, anyone interested in an informal meetup of wsg and similar people in Bondi/Eastern Suburbs of Sydney this coming tuesday - short notice I know, but ... please email me offlist and I'll let you know the details, thanks John John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources

Re: [WSG] resources for media="print"?

iv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/advanced/ media.html HTH, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: software, courses, resources for a standards based web style master blog http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ http://www.westciv.com/ **

[WSG] Tables redux

Hi all, just posted a response to this whole table thingy going on right now on my blog. http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/2004/05/the_right_tool_.html It's a parable. Thanks, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a stan

Re: [WSG] 'It Works in Gecko Browsers ...'

ll break in the future. HTH John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: webessentials Sept 30 - October 1 2004 S

Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...

ectful way. Mark, I guess I come across quite strongly, I tend not to beat about the bush. I certainly wasn't looking for a fight, but at the same time I was a bit cross with the subtext of the article. There are enough people out there waiting to beat up on standards advocates and the co

[WSG] And now for something completely different :-)

.html Hope people find it interesting, and feel free to spread the word :-) john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: webessentials Sept 30 - October 1

Re: [WSG] And now for something completely different :-)

50 million installed iTunes, then go for it with that large installed user base. I am sure they have thought about it, just not sure what they do think about it. I am pretty sure what MS might think about it :-) john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resou

Re: [WSG] Ten Questions for whomever

Cam and Russ, Can we do one of those interviews where I punch the camera, then you chase me to my car? As Russ will tell you that is likely to be my interview at present :-) John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources

Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?

superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we0

Re: [WSG] Keep all content to a single page using CSS for printing?

Is it possible to keep all content to a single page using CSS for printing? body {font-size: 1px} in a print style sheet ought to do it most of the time :-) john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog

[WSG] Current practices in Australian web development

seful john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we0

[WSG] The Age (and smh) redesign

article http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com

[WSG] Webpatterns and WebSemantics

. It's a little like microformats.org, but with a focus more on site architecture than just data. Very interested in people's thoughts, thanks for your time, john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com

[WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

rg/wordpress/?p=4 the aim of which is to explore existing patterns in web development. I've started with site level patterns. I'm really interested in the thoughts of all developers about the patterns which we use, so if you have a moment please come along, and contribute your

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

re made up page sub parts and so on). I do detail this in the original article, http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/2005/11/webpatterns_and.html thanks john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.co

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

y, but for more complex problems, as I have mentioned earlier, itss just not flexible enough, thanks for the thoughts, john etc... What do you think? R - Original Message - From: "John Allsopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 2:34 PM Subject: [

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

gests that they certainly don't make solving complex problems trivial, rather they help make the process more efficient, and hopefully give rise to better solutions in future Thanks again, john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master su

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

terns" is somewhat misleading, because we initially think of visual design) thanks john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference :: http://we

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

the µf crew have specifically decided to focus on one aspect of patterns, at least for now. You never know, it might end continually re-occurring debates on mailing lists (like those I mentioned in my first post). or at least move them to a wiki :-) Thanks for the great ideas j John Allso

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

Kevin, dosnt ted drakes standardista rollyo search thingy sorta do this? I'd suggest rollyo is a great example of a framework, which of course uses existing search, page and page content patterns. john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master su

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

some of the articles in my original post about patterns. I feel that after some not inconsiderable time thinking about this problem domain, the pattern paradigm is appropriate, and could potentially be very important as web development matures into a fully fledged discipline. Thanks for the ex

Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz

ok forward to seeing the next stage ;o) it's begun already! Get along to http://webpatterns.org/wordpress/?p=4 and start adding some patterns :-)! everyone is welcome, and its easy john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher ::

Re: [WSG] css/html snippets

interested to visit webpatterns.org, and ion particular share their thoughts via the patternQuiz (there are two parts now) http://webpatterns.org/wordpress/?cat=3 thanks john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

nd off. It's a long time since I have done some intensive forms work, but IIRC, browsers generally managed this for you if you set up your radio button sets properly. I know, its strictly off topic, but its about conventions, which are a kind of standard john John Allsopp

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

I've never seen it as an issue before (althoough I do see it as one in this instance) j John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web

Re: [WSG] Default state of radio buttons. (Maybe OT?)

** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ***

Re: [WSG] web standards training course/events in Sydney?

September. john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ ** The

Re: [WSG] web standards training course/events in Sydney?

with Molly Holzschlag and Eric Meyer on Women on the Web, while I (John Allsopp) am organizing a panel with Dave Shea, Doug Bowman, Jon Hicks and Eris Free on Web design and development in 2010. As to Neerav's comment about price, WE and SxSW are two quite radically different events. SxSW con

Re: [WSG] GMail... Terrible!

s dealings. Its public corporations that I am referring to here. j John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ *

Re: [WSG] IE7 may ship ahead of Longhorn

were directed at precisely that group (developers), who, um, are precisely the single greatest adopters of Firefox. I'd go so far as to say it a tactical strike to attempt to stem the flow of developers to using Firefox as their main browser. But that would be cynical, and MS are of course never

[WSG] Javascript guru: volunteer some skills to a relevant charity

d you drop me a line offlist and I'll put you in touch with them. Thanks in advance, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.

Re: [WSG] WSG thoghts on XUL

ns. Just as an aside why and not .whatever {shape: circle} ? j John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ *

Re: [WSG] Centre DIV Vertically? Any compliant methods?

e wanted to do, like it is now. Ditto multi column layout f'rinstance. Maybe Bert will have an answer :-) John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style maste

Re: [WSG] flash and accessabilty

** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ***

Re: [WSG] zindex

n a negative z-index, and the parent a positive one (or 0)That ought to do it,John John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://www.westciv.com/style_master support forum ::  http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher

Re: [WSG] Best way to train someone in css and web standards

nd were developed in Australia by people who have been involved with Web Standards since the very beginning(oh yeah, that includes me)http://westciv.com/courses/index.htmlWe also have a lot of very useful free training resources too,http://westciv.com/style_master/house/index.htmlthanksjohn John All

Re: [WSG] best way to approach markup of an address

way around, perhaps. and so on. Andrew. --- http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the li

[WSG] elements and what they can contain

I believe that, and all my reading leads me to believe that elements may only contain other inline elements (not including elements. Can anyone point me to the definitive part of the HTML spec that says this? Thanks, john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http

Re: [WSG] elements and what they can contain

Lea, that would be this bit yes? j On 26/05/2005, at 4:47 PM, Lea de Groot wrote: On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:30:30 +1000, John Allsopp wrote: Can anyone point me to the definitive part of the HTML spec that says this? http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#edef-A is one

Re: [WSG] elements and what they can contain

fically mention this with regard to anchors. I'd say so too. I've "known" this for years, but in preparing something quite technical, I needed to satisfy myself it was 100% the case. thanks j John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://www.westciv

Re: [WSG] elements and what they can contain

Thanks Lea, all sorted now, john On 26/05/2005, at 5:20 PM, Lea de Groot wrote: Yep, as Ingo says, the '%inline;' means 'only inline elements in here' and the '-(A)' means 'except that exciting one, the anchor'. John Allsopp style master

Re: [WSG] elements and what they can contain

a whole nutha post j p.s. any rugby fan WSG members whole live near Bondi, I'll be at the beach road hotel to watch the Super 12 final (I only say this cause Peter lives in Bondi too, though he probably quite sensibly hates rugby :-) john John Allsopp style master :: css edi

Re: [WSG] CSS List Separator

of a fuss than using CSS counters and content which won't work completely anyway) john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://www.westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://westciv.typepad.co

Re: [WSG] CSS List Separator

sections and so on Whether 6 deep is enough I am not entirely sure though, they can get very complex! john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://www.westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://westciv.typepad.com

Re: [WSG] CSS List Separator

, is blind. It definitely pays to stop and think about accessibility when we come to consider even what may appear quit straightforward aspects of what we do. Very good question Richard, john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://www.westciv.com/style_master support foru

Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/

CSS doesn't appear to have any bugs, but one slight HTML problem - there is a style element inside the body of the page. All in all, from first look a nice usable accessible design, with almost entirely valid markup, well done j (compare http://gov.au, possibly the worst page on th

Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/

esign - The image replacement techniques, misuse of flash (rarely is it used well, and even when it is used well, it tends to be used for everything (text and still graphics as well as interactive stuff) rather than jsut for what it does well). Just my not so humble appearance. John Allsopp

Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/

he plague - or don;t even notice them, afterall, how are we supposed to know they are flyout or dropdown menus? HTH john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.co

Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/

it isn't for navigation! john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference ht

Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/

ame extent, but be very careful. As a web development student, what resources are available for me to read to help me better understand this issue? I'v not read anything in great detail, but others certainly may have HTH a little john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :

Re: [WSG] Semantic Calendar

n list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support

Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners

ow it sounds advanced, but basically, no one knows about this stuff, and it bites them sooner rather than later) make sure they know what validation is all about make sure they never use the term "tag" incorrectly :-) all the best, john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: htt

Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners

m pedantic, but we are dealing with computers, so precision is important. an example of when it makes a significant difference is illustrated by the following Which of these is correct "the caption element comes directly after the table tag" "the caption element comes directl

Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners

Excellent! Ah, I see. Good point. I will remember to make that distinction! j John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web

Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners

) is an element Also, the distinction is between the syntax of HTML (tags) and the structural aspects of the document (elements) This distinction, though is some senses subtle, is important to understand, and should be introduced as early as possible when teaching HTML (IMHO) john John

Re: [WSG] Online Resources for HTML Beginners

but a real goodie. It has spawned many imitators. j John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http:

[WSG] Tables and divs and soon

nts). In short, using tables is a very good way of raising the risk of invalid documents. BTW, I'm presenting these findings at WE05, and hope to have a detailed article online soon, john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

in web development slowly, painfully and fitfully if at all. So not only is it *who* is using the technique, it is the technique itself which is problematic. john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

technology for a purpose for which it was not intended because it "works" in some narrowly defined set of circumstances. History teaches us that such things, regardless of their present usefulness, we usually come to regret. Y2K anyone? john John Allsopp style master :: css editor ::

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

Dead Table Sketch The cast: MR. PRALINE John Cleese SHOP OWNER Michael Palin The sketch: A customer enters a web development shop. Mr. Praline: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint. (The owner does not respond.) Mr. Praline: 'Ello, Miss?

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

in table based sites have been almost invariably associated with the table markup. The correlation is strong. john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_hi

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

ffect absolutely cannot be achieved using CSS*." I rest my case. Look, you can find all the justification you want in the fine print of the standards. But their intent is very very clear. Finding justification for the use of Tables for layout in the standards is essentially an

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

other than a designers penchant for that technique. john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http:

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

tics - they can be used to prove almost anything, depending on how you interpret them :-) Or rhetoric, which can be used to convince oneself of just about anything. John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :

Re: [WSG] Tables and divs and soon

successful web developer in the long run, you'll not be using tables for layout for your whole career. So if not now, when? john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://supp

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