From: "Breton Slivka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Of course if you don't feel like reading it, then don't. You have the
reccomendations here for the books that have good information (Unless
nobody has yet reccomended David Flanagan's "Javascript: The
Definative Guide"). When you're ready for good informa
Hello All,
I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/
Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Disagree) with 20 questions and some
Googling came up with the following approach...
http://www.enterpriseaccessibility.com/articles/
AccessibleRadioButtons.html
...and I was wonderin
Hi Patrick,
Actually I had already prepared one as an alternative version to
discuss with the client so glad you brought it up independently.
Nick
On 04/12/2007, at 5:10 AM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
Steve Green wrote:
I recommend using elements for each radio button and
hiding them
off-
lto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Lo
Sent: 03 December 2007 12:34
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly
agree/etc)
forms
Hello All,
I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/
Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Di
On 04/12/2007, at 12:07 AM, russ - maxdesign wrote:
Hi Nick,
The sample code on this page you link to does not look ideal. As
has been
mentioned on this list a few times, title attributes are often
ignored by
screen readers. And the use of a table element to lay out the form
is a
little
The problem with the code below is that the content of the
will be
read before every . That makes it very difficult for a
screen reader
user to read it fast. I would just have the question in a or
possibly
even a header element.
Once the user has read through a few questions and realises
I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially
useful extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:
"Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform
Firefox into a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual
impairments -- and anyone else who can u
I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially
useful extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:
"Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform
Firefox into a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual
impairments -- and anyone else who can
Hi Lorrie,
List,
I am a web designer as a hobby and have run into a situation where I
am not sure where to search. Does a standard exist for the creation
of web site creation documentation? By this I mean documentation
that would/might be turned over to the end user:
1. to allow the en
I am working on a very bad implementation of a site. My job is to
improve it for the timebeing, while we are developing a new standard
site. Now the issue is with the payment system with the Paypal. I need
to put in shipping cost for the products bought from here..
http://www.netcomm.com.au/produc
This question is not really very easily Googlable so I'm posting it
here.
I vaguely remember reading that the order in which a state styles
appeared in a stylesheet was important.
I made a rough memory recall thingy: LoVe HAte (not an acronym but must
have some official name) to stand for:
a:
Following on from the discussion on this list a little while ago about
a list of hacks is this "Essential CSS hacks" blog entry on sitepoint:
http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=179726
Nick
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Hi Gerd,
You mean a bit like one I have at:
http://www.amcs.org.au
Which is based on...
http://www.gazingus.org/html/Using_Lists_for_DHTML_Menus.html
Nick
Hi Folks!
Could one of you please point me to a vertical menu solution based on
css/js and semantically structured by ul/li's?
I'd love to have
Via http://www.webstandardsawards.com :
http://www.esfootwear.com
Nick
Hi Folks,
I was just wondering if anybody can point me in the direction of a
sportswear or fashion site using web standards?
Andy Budd
http://www.message.uk.com/
*
The discus
Hello,
I'm currently re-reviewing means to allow my client (a non-profit org)
to add formatted articles to a content management system.
I've spent a good while reviewing the alternatives from in-browser
wysiwyg's/ javascript driven tag generator/html editors to something
external like Mozilla C
Hi Jonothan,
Yeah, I'd considered that for the future however right now as far as I
know Word 2004 on the Mac does not have the ability to save as XML.
Since one of the users is a Mac user (so am i in fact) that solution
will have to wait.
Thanks,
Nick
My recommendation would be to create an XM
Hi Neerav,
In fact much like my last reply to Jonothan I'd also considered doing
that, with PHP 5 having the Tidy extension, as a future thing.
Thanks,
Nick
Ive never tried it but AFAIK Tidy http://tidy.sourceforge.net/ can be
used server side to clean up code on POST eg:
http://infohound.net/t
http://www.stylegala.com
motivated by the recent email about http://www.chevrolet.com is
there an up to date list of well constructed websites that use CSS. -
Roly
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
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Hi Michael,
One thing I'd suggest if you're learning PHP is to from the very start
try as much as possible to avoid having PHP generate your HTML (as in
your example).
I started coding PHP over 4 years ago using an e-commerce system that
generated large amounts of the HTML and I still now ha
Hi Joshua,
Why did you choose to go the XML route and in what way? I went down a
similar path with earlier versions of systems I'd built, however, I
didn't use XSLT which I'm guessing is how you're doing it.
To keep this on topic I'm asking because clean XHTML used with CSS
allows data that is
Since screenshots from Safari on Mac OS X are occasionally asked for,
this little utility pointed from O'Reilly (
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5576 ) is very useful. It takes full
length web page screenshots via Webkit:
http://0x.se/paparazzi/
Anyone know of similar tools for Windows use?
I was looking at some data of the form:
AQUACULTURE
1. Scientists: Salmon Hatchery Policy Flawed (USA)
2. Fish Farms Seen Harming Dive Tourism (Malta)
3. Escaped Farmed Salmon Find Home (Alaska)
COASTAL DEVELOPMENT
4. Mayor Casts Doubt
Hi Cameron,
I just tried that link I posted and it goes to all the threads so you
would've had a hard job getting to it. The "answer" is further in that
post:
-
3. The CSS way to accomplish the same things
jEdit:
http://www.jedit.org/
...and be sure to check out the recommended plugins in the jEdit Wiki:
http://community.jedit.org/cgi-bin/TWiki/view/Main/PluginsOverview
Nick
Greetings Every One!
After "1st Page 2000", I'm using "AceHTML 5 Pro" to build websites
(info: http://www.visicommedia.com/)
If you mean his personal site at...
http://www.olajideolaolorun.com/
...you may have missed down the bottom...
"Olajide Olaolorun is proudly powered by WordPress 1.2"
...which indicates it actually probably isn't his code anyway.
Nick
h.
what can i say?
is this a joke?
because i compared th
ure as
presentation.
Nick
Nick Lo wrote:
COASTAL DEVELOPMENT
4. Mayor Casts Doubt Over Magnetic Is Report (Great
Barrier Reef)
5. Hope for Maldives Rises from the Sea (Maldives)
...and looking at the how of doing that;
I came up with something. While it's
A while ago I brought up the topic of the Turing/CAPTCHA test on forms
and whether it restricted accessibility on forms. The general opinion
was of course that it does.
I just found this article:
"My article about Turing Protection generated lots of comments about
how using image CAPTCHAs restr
Hi Francesco,
It has some issues in earlier versions of IE PC You might want to check
out (Just got my multiple versions of IE installed (
http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/94.php ) so it's nice to be able to
say that! ).
I had a quick look in IE Mac and it does have a few things needing
sort
http://9rules.com/whitespace/css_redesigns/yahoo_css_redesign.php
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To be held in S
I agree it appears that way now but I think it's a little too
easy/early to suggest it is and will end up that way. In that respect
it'll be interesting to watch it develop.
On a site of this massive scale I'd be very surprised if there are not
a bunch of pretty screwed on heads knocking togeth
Pondering over this one:
I'm presuming a list of links with their short intros like e.g. news
articles:
Cow jumps over
moon
An unnamed cow has been seen jumping over the moon say
residents...
Dish runs away with spoon
The mystery continues as crockery takes to the streets...
Work
er the moon say
residents...
Dish runs away with spoon
The mystery continues as crockery takes to the streets...
And also quite a bit more elegant, IMO.
Cheers,
Cam
Nick Lo wrote:
Pondering over this one:
I'm presuming a list of links with their short intros like e.g. news
articles:
I was just reading the article excerpted below and was curious as to
how many on the list have used this technique of initially setting all
padding and margins to 0 and if so how successful was it?
"A big part of dealing with cross-browser differe
Thanks for the reply Russ, I agree that it's really down to the
situation.
Some further thoughts from your points:
Smaller sites would presumably have less people working on them and
therefore the issue of confusion is possibly less relevant, though the
problem of verbosity may be. On the other
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for posting the article in the first place, I should've known
the writer would've been on this list!
Anyway, I like the idea and I have a suspicion it'll work pretty well
for my needs. I just tried it in a site I'm working on and it actually
didn't break much and in fact I can
Hello,
This example below...
Please Select
work
home
fax
mobile
other
...is currently in the admin section of a CMS I'm putting together. The
point is to allow the admin user to specify what the type of phone is
mobile
other
As I've just put at...
http://www.trikeinteractive.com/form_example.html
...as an example. Note there is no actual text as would normally be
within the label tags but instead another form element.
Thanks,
Nick
Nick Lo wrote:
So my question is really; is the
Thanks Nick,
Well, no... but it needs to be used correctly. The element
allows the text label for a form input to become 'live' (ie clickable)
to enlarge the target for, say, a radio button - but it needs to wrap
around the element it refers to. You have the label for
id="input_phone_1" wrappe
Wow, so many responses... must type fast...just knocked up what must be
a better solution:
http://www.trikeinteractive.com/form_example.html
However notice how the first is actually less laborious visually in
terms of how we use desktop applications.
I'm thinking of for example OS X Address Boo
Steven Faulkner just made me realise I've not yet seen or asked about
set-ups for actually testing sites using speech/text readers.
There are plenty of articles on browser testing but how would you go
about setting up an environment for testing via speech/text readers.
I use a Mac for developme
Hi Steven,
Yes that's a solution I'd considered and on thinking about it/reading
that article I realised yet another point:
I use the label class to indicate required elements. So if this part of
the form was submitted but not filled in:
Phone Type
The user would be returned to the form with th
Hello again,
Wow, I have to say I expected a short list but not as few as that. I
know of course about JAWS but the pricing is quite prohibitive. It
really is an area crying out for some open source input as in:
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/AT/Gnopernicus/
Sad, as although there are c
Hi Lea,
have you looked a the fieldset tag?
Its useful for grouping fields together.
Yes, in fact that example is an excerpt from a larger form that is
enclosed in a fieldset with a legend. Though what my example
highlighted was the finer points of accessibility I wasn't capturing.
Thanks,
Nick
I've partly incorporated Dublin Core into an NGO site I'm working on so
I'm very interested to hear how you go with this Ted. I'd say even
though this is not the right place for an SEO discussion, if the
discussion is in regards to being penalised for implementing what is
the main metadata stan
Correction:
Before:
The Australian Government has incorporated Dublin Core into it's AGLS
Metadata Standard...
http://www.naa.gov.au/recordkeeping/gov_online/agls/summary.html
...and I'd be surprised if there is no-one on this list that has had
no dealings there. If there are perhaps they'd have
I had the same question with the same use in mind: web applications.
What you're presumably driving at is that pages look to need be either
XHTML 1.0 Transitional or Frameset in order to allow the target
attribute. The question that follows from that, albeit somewhat
academic at this stage, is w
Smells like Flash but isn't:
http://www.scottschiller.com/
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I'm a Mac/Linux-on-occasion/PC-only-when-I-have-to user so I could be
wrong but:
Indicates Win32 which I thought referred to earlier versions of the
Windows platform and therefore includes browsers less and less in the
majority?
Nick
yes, true... but i was thinking in terms of browser
Hi Dave,
From my experience Flash v's this/that arguments have been dragged up
the hill and down again so many times that most participants could
recite them backwards, plus they are likely to send people to their
unsubscribe button.
The point of my posting this site was not to suggest "who
lop PHP based web applications) ;-)
Anyway cheers and here's to 20 000!
Nick
OK, we have decided to give the person who did the 10,000th post a
prize
(thanks to Core member David McDonald for the idea).
Re: Web Standards Eye Candy: http://www.scottschiller.com/
By Nick Lo - Fri 12 Nov 2004 at 10:33
I'm having a little brain drain with spacing that I'd like help with.
The layout on a page I'm working in is experiencing the same problem I
can demonstrate better on Russ's example here:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/steps/step22.htm
Imagine I want a background colour on the header "
By the way it can be solved by adding padding to it's container:
div#content { margin-left: 190px; margin-right: 200px; padding-top:
3pt; }
However I'm still not clear why.
Thanks,
Nick
I'm having a little brain drain with spacing that I'd like help with.
The layout on a page I'm working in is ex
Hi Felix,
Nothing fundamentally wrong with your arguments but to balance them a
little I had a client just recently ask for text to be made smaller (it
wasn't in any way large) and they often ask for spacing to be reduced
in order to get more content "above the fold". I think pointing the
blame
I think Felix has put in a lot of time and effort with his work at...
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/wauth1.html
...and I found a lot of his demonstrations useful. So before I start I
just wanted to thank him for his efforts before using his work as an
example of perhaps part of why the font-
I asked much the same question a little while back and what I got
together was:
First have the doc saved as "HTML (Filtered)" if it's coming from Word
2003 (earlier versions can get the filtered thingy someone else
mentioned).
Then in my case I wrote a filter for the content management system
To further that in a speech reader article passed on By Steven Faulkner
([WSG] Observing Users Who Work With Screen Readers ):
http://www.redish.net/content/papers/InteractionsPaperAuthorsVer.pdf
It says:
6. Many want to skip the navigation but do not do so.
Many Web sites include a Skip Navigati
What you are really getting at is not so much that you charge more
because you know about building accessible standards based websites but
because your experience is broader. For example you can say ...and
because the site is built this way it has such and such benefits to
vision impaired users
Hi Priscilla,
I develop in PHP (though the actual language is fairly irrelevant) and
based on what you say it sounds like a fingers crossed approach to the
problem. Not knowing the perspective of your developer I cannot say
whether he is wrong or right, but I can say with absolute certainty
the
I'm curious if and how you are all using the address tag. The HTML 4
spec has this to say:
--
The ADDRESS element may be used by authors to supply contact
information for a document or a major part of a document such as a
form. This element often appe
Hi Patrick,
On experimenting with it it also appears that address is an inline
element so fails to validate if you put e.g. a inside it.
From the XHTML 1.0 Transistional DTD:
So while it may seem logical to give the internals some structure
like...
Contact Person
Rod Someon
This seems a silly question but it bounces about enough that whilst
discussing it with a client I thought I'd put it to the list.
During development when referring to HTML (and perhaps CSS) with a
client do you use the term "code" or the more pedantically correct,
though perhaps less recognised
Well having moved into this from print "markup" is really more document
related. A word document is marked up when you specify margins,
headers, bold, etc., it is not coded (excluding the really pedantic
fact that these days there is application code doing the work).
Nick
I tend to use 'code',
p.s. I won'r post on this (off)topic any more.
I'm pretty well responsible for this so just to refer back to my
question:
During development when referring to HTML (and perhaps CSS) with a
client do you use the term "code" or the more pedantically correct,
though perhaps less recognised, term
I'd say the simplest solution would be to post the URL to any of his
pages on the list and let us all point out where they fall short.
Nick
Some days ago I had a short discussion with a colleague about a
display bug in (surprise) IE. The solution he found was to replace all
tags (except html, hea
I've just released...
http://www.mccn.org.au/
...and realised a little late that some last minute tweaks (possibly)
have thrown out the "Stay Informed" column on the home page in PC IE 5.
Usually I'd battle on and crack it but I'm a little battle weary and
this seems to work fine in IE 6 PC, IE
Hi Bert,
Being a "minimalist", all those images for bullets do seem a little
archaic.
You should be able to achieve the same with css (non repeating
background
image and padding on the li/dd for instance). If nothing else, it
cuts down
on code and makes it easier to change the look of these lis
Hi Gunlaug,
That was pretty well it. Note in your example the width is applied to
the ul#subscribe li a which when taken literally was pretty silly and
IE 5 took it literally; widening just the link in the to 285px.
All I needed to do was move that width setting to the ul and the column
is bac
Anyone else confused?
I read through the WSG thread that came from and followed up a lot of
the links and if like me you're making the transition to stronger use
of CSS based development the xhtml v's html issue seems to be
summarised like this:
The issue seems to be whether you are using this
Hello "The Moose",
Anyone else confused?
As to the purpose of this being resent - yes.
Not sure what you mean by that, where does the suggestion of resent
come in?
I read through the WSG thread that came from and followed up a lot of
the links and if like me you're making the transition to st
Hi Peter,
Moose meant re-sent (reposted)... Unfortunate that the word can be
read two
ways.
Aha... re-sent / resent of course ...sorry Moose, although I'm sure you
understand my bemusement at the latter meaning.
As I re-posted it, I'll say why I did. There have been a lot of new
members
lately
I can absolutely vouch for jEdit which I'm using to write PHP, HTML,
CSS, SQL, etc ..., on Mac OS X 10.2.8 on a B/W G3, so a system already
on the slow side. It's performance is somewhat slow (again on my
already slow system) for some things e.g. for scrolling through a large
document, but
If I understand you correctly you are saying we should not touch the
design of a button because it could confuse the user, that would mean
every website would have GREY buttons.
I personally think you can style the buttons as much as you like, as
long as they are CONSISTENT throughout your site
Hi Peter,
You might like to read this for one:
"Multiple IE's in Windows"
http://www.insert-title.com/web_design/?page=articles/dev/multi_IE
...and while the topic is raised. I'd be interested how others are
doing their cross browser testing, browser cam, Mac with Virtual PC,
multiple boxes, et
Hi Gavin,
The most immediate thing is the fact that the expandable lists don't
expand or collapse at least on Safari in my brief test. Following on
from what Hugh Todd said about the Javascript being IE targeted you
might find this useful:
http://www.gazingus.org/html/Using_Lists_for_DHTML_Men
Since it appears that Browsercam is in the lead so far. How about
shifting the challenge to coming up some Browsercam competition
(Australian perhaps?) that does show below the fold, etc...
How about it; BrowserCamOz or something equally original!?
Just a late afternoon thought.
Nick
The best
Here's how to enable it:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030110063041629
However, before you get too excited "it can pretend to be a bunch of
different browsers" merely refers to it's ability to set the User Agent
HTTP header to say it's another browser. Useful e.g. when online
Hi Jaime,
Slightly off the discussion but I can't help thinking that if I was you
in that chain of command...
Client <--- Design Firm <--- Subcontracted Freelancer <--
Sub-subcontracted You
...I'd be very wary of work that has supposedly "strict" guidelines to
follow yet the flow of project i
Hi Pete,
Funny, I was going to mention this to the list but I hesitated.
However, after your reply below I'm glad Tim didn't hesitate. I don't
know about anyone else, but your reasons why, coming from such a high
profile site, are a great advertisement/example to Australian clients
of reasons
Hi Peter,
Put them on every page of your site and ideally they should be specific
to that page...as in "This page is about..." type stuff.
Nick
Dumb question but ...
Do you repeat your META tags on every page of your site, or only the
index page?
Thanks
Peter
Don't forget that it also has a lot to do with what you're using to
edit the files. I use jEdit with it's "folding" functionality set to
indent which means...
div.row span.left
{
float: left;
text-align: left;
font-weight: bold;
color: #fff;
width: 49%;
}
I'm just playing around with my web application admin area and
considering using frames so basically to start I'm just looking for
thoughts/resources on the way forward (if there even is one) using
frames.
My reasons for considering frames is that I have a php generated
http://www.gazingus.org
Hi Mike,
I understand what you're getting at however I think you need to invert
the way you're looking at it and see the increasing volume of quality
posts as well.
Personally, I think this is a great list and yes there are times when I
think this or that post could have held off posting. Howe
On that note have you considered just releasing it straight on to video
or dvd and selling it? It'd be a laborious job to have to edit and web
format all that footage and equally laborious to have to watch it via
the web. I think this kind of thing (especially a run through of how
blind users u
Hello all,
Ok this is my first fully CSS based site (still work in progress by the
way) and I first of all want to give credit to Russ's great tutorial at:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/
I'm a little concerned at how closely I ended up to his original
however the client had actuall
Dear me, little obvious that I've been slogging through this to the
point of eye twitching...the URL is:
http://www.amcs.org.au
...and thanks again Russ,
Nick
No objections to any of my templates being used partially or fully.
They
were put online to be used and/or abused as needed :)
Russ
Hi Jeff,
Looks like it may have worked...thanks very much...and to all the
others that could've helped if I'd included the URL!
Nick
Hi Nick
Try:
H1 {position: relative;}
This might help; I came up against the same problem in IE6 and found
that this fixed the problem.
Jeff
**
Hi Peter,
I feel the same way however I'm working on tidying a variation of
drop-down navigation at http://www.amcs.org.au right now and this one
does have some benefits.
For one since it's just an HTML list it actually places what's almost a
site map on every page which should be good for sea
Hi Peter,
The problem with this method is that it confuses the user. I looked at
this
site last night with your previous problem and was very surprised by
the
action when I clicked on About AMCS.
Clicking on a navbar item should do what all other navbars do, take
you to
the page.
Visually, yo
Or...how about drawing a clear conclusion to the problem. It's a bit
frustrating going through list/forum archives when a thread covering a
problem that seems to be like your own suddenly dries up.
If the thanks specifies the solution to the problem then I think it's
very valuable. Perhaps we n
Just came across this...
http://www.scotconnect.com/webtypography/index.php
Nick
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Not sure if it's been pointed to:
By MACCAWS:
"MACCAWS' mission is to provide Web authors with the resources
necessary to promote Web standards as a commercially desirable choice
for clients."
http://www.maccaws.org/kit/way-forward/
Nick
*
What I don't understand is why someone would bother... to me flash is
not a W3C standard, thus it will not validate... but maybe that is
just me.
This is separate to the markup used to load a Flash movie... sure
Flash is propietary, so is the embed tag, Quicktime, Real, and lots of
other media
Does everyone else on the list do this?
For the sake of 11k that is cached on the first page load it seems a
little drastic. I do programming work as well as markup and the
indentation/formatting of the code is very important in producing
readable code. If it was only me looking at the CSS then
Yeah pretty well what I was thinking I mean in practice CSS files are
often shared and the very process of using CSS based layouts v's tables
already trims a huge load off the page size anyway. It just seemed
almost scarily ...thorough... to be trimming the stylesheet in this way
as well.
Thou
Hi Brian,
I moved this onto a "trimming the fat" thread as I felt it was moving
off topic from Jackie's post.
Out of interest how much are you working with/sharing these files in a
team environment?
With the generally varying levels of skills (especially with CSS) in
most teams I'd say that "
Hi Brian,
You seem to be getting jumped on a bit for this and I'd say it's
largely a matter of preference so a little pointless to go on at length
about.
However, you are inviting comment by saying "bloat and that is all the
stuff that makes code pretty and "easily readable" by inexperienced
I was wondering if any of you had opinions/thoughts on the use of
CAPTCHA tests (or whatever proper name is given to the little numbered
images used to verify a form submitting user is human and not a
spamming machine).
They are obviously a reaction to the ever increasing amounts of spam
being
What annoys me is that with the proliferation of this sort of thing,
people will get used to it, accept it, then not really notice that they
have to do it all the time, and then no one will realise that we've
just
condemned visually impaired users (and anyone else who can't load
images
for whatev
What is ecma?
Standards organisation:
http://www.ecma-international.org/
of which...
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm
...is the standard for ECMAScript scripting language which is
essentially javascript standardised. Flash's actionscript is also based
on i
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