I think a more exact parallel is meeting God with experiencing Buddha
nature.
As a non-Christian mystic I wonder how you derived your theory of seeing
God being fundamentally distinct from no-mind. Surely you are not speaking
from experience?
Credit to Brad Warner for this.
Thanks,
--Chris
Edgar,
I make no claims; That's your small mind, gibbering.
No claims about reason; but I am a damned good Observer.
You may be laughing, as you please. But that further discloses and does not
disguise the fact, known to all, that you have always here been entirely and
completely wrong about
Edgar,
You define it, you limit it, you own it. That is not reality.
Take your wrong and own THAT. You do.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
Wrong as usual. God is a defined concept in the minds of men.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen
Chris,
Warner gets a demerit.
One-Mind is the state where-from God can be perceived.
From No-Mind there is no such thing. Nor is there anything else.
--Joe
Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote:
I think a more exact parallel is meeting God with experiencing Buddha
nature.
As a
That is pretty much what Sensei Warner is calling the experience of meeting
God. Only afterwards, of course, not during. He favors this word over the
Buddha nature word for Westerners who have a tendency to trivialize Budda
nature.
Thanks,
--Chris
301-270-6524
On Jun 16, 2013 9:40 AM, Joe
There is a very enjoyable Manga series on the life of Buddha by Osama
Tezuka, actually. Some gorgeous art and a good story and an interesting if
not orthodox take on his biography and teachings.
Thanks,
--Chris
301-270-6524
On Jun 15, 2013 3:30 AM, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Uncle
Chris,
That's interesting. Probably only in the recent book of his I've heard you
name does he do that(?).
Not everybody in the West who comes to Zen practice is going to be thrilled by
talk of God, in any connection. But they can just avoid buying his book. ;-)
I've never heard of anyone
Joe,
Uh Oh. Joe just lost his Zen to his ego again!
:-)
Edgar
On Jun 16, 2013, at 12:34 PM, Joe wrote:
Edgar,
I make no claims; That's your small mind, gibbering.
No claims about reason; but I am a damned good Observer.
You may be laughing, as you please. But that further discloses
I think we can find people on this very listserv that trivialize Buddha
nature, making it a picture of itself rather.
And you seem resolute in keeping rhe meanings you assign to words and to
change the topic to that rather than working for communication about the
meanings I was explaining for the
Edgar, Group,
And a pretty good shot in the ass I gave you, eh?
It's just not I'm not Cupid.
This is why you've stopped your larruph-ing.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
Uh Oh. Joe just lost his Zen to his ego again!
Current Book
Chris,
Something's garbled in that reply's 2nd paragraph, Chris. I don't know if I
can pull it out. Maybe try a full-sized keybd.?
As far as trivializing Buddha Nature goes, even to do so in speech one or two
times may not ruin a person's career in Zen practice: we live a long life.
Once
And, Chris,
A few people who know God, or profess to, from time to time take the Lord's
name in vain. Is this trivializing God? Does their doing this hurt their
career as saved Christians?
No; the blood of their Savior/Messiah washes away this sin, or has already
atoned for it.
In Zen
Chris, thank you taking the care to translate. All copied. ;-)
Silly thin ideas? Are those thumb-pressed keys really making OK contact?
Is there anyone here new to Zen who you will help? I hope so.
Happy Day,
--Joe
Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote:
I reread my paragraph and the
Chris,
A Zen teacher, at sesshin, say, will not let you stay at One-Mind, and will
encourage you to continue, if the teacher is true and good.
You think that is superior. I just say that it is the way of Zen, and Zen
training. And a fact of life.
You may find this out, when the time comes.
Joe,
Your angry insults are gone as soon as I scan them and don't even faze me...
You seem to be attached to what I've long forgotten...
Edgar
On Jun 16, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Joe wrote:
Edgar, Group,
And a pretty good shot in the ass I gave you, eh?
It's just not I'm not Cupid.
This
Joe,
More total Catholic BS. God couldn't care less what any humans think or do
Edgar
On Jun 16, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Joe wrote:
And, Chris,
A few people who know God, or profess to, from time to time take the Lord's
name in vain. Is this trivializing God? Does their doing this hurt
Joe,
Remember the story of the master who carried the pretty young girl across the
river?
Time for the disciple to set her down now!
:-)
Edgar
On Jun 16, 2013, at 6:27 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Joe,
Your angry insults are gone as soon as I scan them and don't even faze me...
You seem
Hi, Merle,
In this usage, the Culture implied is Literature, History, Music, Language,
Philosophy, Art, Natural Science, Religion, and so on.
--Joe
Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
group: not all culture is worthwhile..clarify please.. we are now in
financial totalitarianism regime
Suresh,
A Zen (Buddhist) forum is not the place to ask anything about God, or a god.
But I like what the late Swami Muktananda used to teach, however:
God dwells within you as you.
This is a traditional teaching of course and comes from the religious culture
of India, but it traveled well to
Merle,
No, it does not translate.
But there can be a metaphoric relationship between these two different
phenomena.
From a dream, we awaken in the morning to our usual ego.
From Samsara, we awaken in Zen-Awakening to Buddha Nature, and No-Mind.
The only thing in common here is the word
Just substitute God for Buddha Nature and you won't go wrong..
EDgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 8:06 AM, Joe wrote:
Suresh,
A Zen (Buddhist) forum is not the place to ask anything about God, or a god.
But I like what the late Swami Muktananda used to teach, however:
God dwells within you as
Edgar,
Almost!
Maybe you mean substitute Buddha Nature for God.
You can still go wrong if a Zen teacher does not confirm that your awakening is
of the Zen kind, and corrects or extends your course.
A practitioner could otherwise sail to and stop at the wrong place entirely,
and be forever
Joe,
God tells me you are wrong. He personally confirms my Buddha Nature.
Teachers? We don't need no stinkin teachers!
Edgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Joe wrote:
Edgar,
Almost!
Maybe you mean substitute Buddha Nature for God.
You can still go wrong if a Zen teacher does not
Edgar,
Who's we?
A teacher does not confirm one's Buddha Nature: you do.
A teacher confirms your realization of it, by testing you:
If you are only half-baked -- then, for your own good, and for all Beings --
it's back in the oven / Ch'an Hall with you! This is Compassion at work.
That's
Joe,
It's your 'our'. I've converted all the rest of the yam leaf sect...
:-)
No really it's just all the kindred beings that listen when God speaks to
them.
edgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Joe wrote:
Edgar,
Who's we?
A teacher does not confirm one's Buddha Nature: you
Donald,
All those things you say are correct, and can be confirmed by others besides
me, too.
They are not a good basis nor motivation for the Bodhisattva path, however.
A Bodhisattva, to be a Bodhisattva, knows that he/she is practicing in order to
open the heart of Compassion.
To practice
Edgar,
Sounds like you're day-drinking.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
It's your 'our'. I've converted all the rest of the yam leaf sect...
:-)
No really it's just all the kindred beings that listen when God speaks to
them.
Hi Joe,
Ultimately, the practice of Chan is to be one with ALL. Some call it
compassion, some call it enlightenment, some call it Buddha nature. In
order to be ONE, we must unify our body, mind and spirit first.
All in all, we begin by purifying our body, then our mind, then our
spirit.
Donald,
I suggest you go around and seek a second opinion about what Ch'an is (that
should be easy on your island).
The confirmatory signs you mention are just that, confirmatory signs, and
simply -- although distinctly -- mark a TRANSITION; and they pass. They are
harmful if they are
Joe, Every way is Chan. All way is Chan. Chan is ALL and ONE.
If you believe that YOUR way is the only way, then you have attached to
dharma. :-)
JM
On 6/15/2013 10:44 AM, Joe wrote:
Donald,
I suggest you go around and seek a second opinion about what Ch'an is
(that should be easy on
Donald,
Good; it won't hurt you to see a Dharma Drum teacher then, at Chinshan, or
Taipei.
Will you do it?
best,
--Joe
chan.jmjm@... wrote:
If you believe that YOUR way is the only way, then you have attached to
dharma. :-)
Current Book
*[Attachment(s) from Edgar Owen included below]
Joe,
What's Dharma Drum?
Could this be a depiction of it? I was wondering who this guy was
*Attachment(s) from Edgar Owen:
* 1 of 1 Photo(s)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/attachments/folder/1414369779/item/list
*
Joe,
Yes, God, Buddha and I are sharing a cup of reality with the foxes!
Won't you join us?
Edgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Joe wrote:
Edgar,
Sounds like you're day-drinking.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
It's your 'our'. I've converted all the rest of
Actually Joe. I have been to many of Sheng Yen's teachings. As my
practice, I don't comment on his teaching. I only share my experience
and witness.
Thank you for your heart felt recommendation.
If I may share one sharing that I did in 2008...
Even the notion of 'I understood.' is from the
Joe, and JM,
No! The light that JM describes IS the central path, not the outer path.
The 'Book of the Golden Flower' agrees and describes the light and speaking of
the light says that before there was nothingness in the center of being but
now there is being in the center of nothingness..
Joe,
Yes, God, Buddha and I are sharing a cup of reality with the foxes!
Won't you join us?
Edgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:16 PM, Joe wrote:
Edgar,
Sounds like you're day-drinking.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
It's your 'our'. I've converted all the rest of
Edgar,
The book you mention is an exemplary text of Taoism.
Taoism is an Outer Path, from the point of view of Chan.
Edgar, Outer Path in Chan parlance means OTHER- Path, outside the
Buddhadharma.
And so it is.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe, and JM,
No! The light that JM
Donald,
Good, that you had come to know Sheng Yen, while he still lived. The other
Dharma Drum successors are available, and you can still consult. Just to have
another opinion about Chan and its practice may be worthwhile to you.
Picking and choosing while we are awake is not necessary; and
Edgar,
Warm and fuzzy!
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
This went on for some time but at some point I suddenly realized this was the
heartbeat of the sleeping Buddha, the Buddha sleeping in everything around me.
Current Book Discussion: any
Joe,
Dharma dharma without dharma. No dharma is dharma. (Diamond sutra)
Joe, Dharma is not in the teaching, not in the words, not in the logic,
not in our brain.
What I have always advised is a practice for all of us to experience.
Instead of making judgment based on formed dharma, I am
Hi Edgar, Thank you. Indeed, this is what's being quoted in Diamond
Sutra as, indescribable existence within pure emptiness. JM
On 6/15/2013 12:29 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Joe, and JM,
No! The light that JM describes IS the central path, not the outer path.
The 'Book of the Golden Flower'
with the Forum.
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: if you meet the buddha kill the buddha
Hi William,
Thanks for the kind comments. Nice to know at least someone here
Donald,
I made no comments about the challenge or prescription you give to carry out
for a year.
I note that many of us have been at it for a good deal longer than that. So,
we may speak directly already. And, we are doing so.
My comments are about the view of Chan that you carry. I
Joe,
My question to you is Dharma Drum something from ancient Buddhist texts or
beliefs or was it just invented recently with the Dharma Drum sect in Taiwan..
Edgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Joe wrote:
Donald,
Good; it won't hurt you to see a Dharma Drum teacher then, at Chinshan, or
Edgar,
Dharma Drum is neither a lineage nor a sect in Taiwan. It is a name applied to
practice centers, a university, and training centers for monks, nuns, and lay
people.
There are affiliate branch centers in 14 countries, and in 18 U.S. states (plus
District of Columbia).
The name Dharma
OK, thanks...
Edgar
On Jun 15, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Joe wrote:
Edgar,
Dharma Drum is neither a lineage nor a sect in Taiwan. It is a name applied
to practice centers, a university, and training centers for monks, nuns, and
lay people.
There are affiliate branch centers in 14
joe..curious and to learn and is the dream the real or life the real
world?..merle
Merle,
No, it does not translate.
But there can be a metaphoric relationship between these two different
phenomena.
From a dream, we awaken in the morning to our usual ego.
From Samsara, we awaken in
i see edgar... says something about your outlook on life now mine was
donald duck...merle
Uncle Scrooge was my favorite.
But I outgrew them.
Edgar
On Jun 14, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
edgar...tolerance and compassion please...
what is not a comic book to you?
butting in edgar...and bill...bill has a compassionate heart..warm and fuzzy
because he loves dogs...that's as real as it gets..merle
Bill,
LOL! How presumptuous and condescending of your ego to think I don't...
The apparent difference between you and me is that real things here and now
hi joe thank you for the clarification..hitler tried to stamp out culture and
impose his own ideas...so did stalin as did mao...the rocky ride is in the
NOW merle
Hi, Merle,
In this usage, the Culture implied is Literature, History, Music, Language,
Philosophy, Art, Natural Science,
christ was a teacher as was buddha...edgar...merle
Edgar,
Who's we?
A teacher does not confirm one's Buddha Nature: you do.
A teacher confirms your realization of it, by testing you:
If you are only half-baked -- then, for your own good, and for all Beings --
it's back in the oven /
yes the book of the golden flower wothwhile...have you read it joe?...merle
Hi Edgar, Thank you. Indeed, this is what's being quoted in Diamond Sutra as,
indescribable existence within pure emptiness. JM
On 6/15/2013 12:29 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Joe, and JM,
No! The light that JM
nothing but
stir me up and went nowhere. Best to you and good luck with the Forum.
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: if you meet the buddha kill the buddha
Hi William,
Thanks for the kind comments. Nice
group..some parents and teachers too are bad news... merle
Bill and Joe,
Yes, but your parents are supposed to teach you how to think rationally, not
teach you Zen.
Apparently the've failed on both accounts?
:-)
Edgar
On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Joe wrote:
Bill!,
Well observed.
group: not all culture is worthwhile..clarify please.. we are now in financial
totalitarianism regime world wide... bad culture here...merle
Bill!,
Well observed.
Those who undervalue the benefits we derive from being taught by parents and
teachers and by Culture reminds me of the
group: some need to be led all their lives..they are fearful of being left to
discover themselves... as i say born knowing we forget our origins in the
razzlemattazle of life..merle
Bill,
As if reality didn't slap you around all the time?
The problem with you guy's insistence on having
Merle and Bill,
Total comic book BS. Jesus, a fully enlightened teacher ? What does
that even mean to you two? Obviously nothing other than a warm fuzzy ego
feeling you can use to put some concept to bed without thinking about it any
more
Edgar
On Jun 14, 2013, at 4:15 AM, Merle
Edgar,
Yes, things like this do give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
What gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Merle and Bill,
Total comic book BS. Jesus, a fully enlightened teacher ? What does
that even mean
Edgar
What gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling? The 3 half grown fox babies running
around my front yard this morning. The mother has been missing for weeks. The
father is running himself ragged taking care of them with my help. He can't
walk on one hind leg and so can't hunt well enough to feed
edgar...tolerance and compassion please...
what is not a comic book to you?
you are so so anti comic books
did you actually ever get to read any as a kid?
merle
Merle and Bill,
Total comic book BS. Jesus, a fully enlightened teacher ? What does
that even mean to you two?
and edgar...what's so evil about feeling warm and fussy?...oh what a
feeling...merle
Edgar,
Yes, things like this do give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
What gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Merle
Edgar,
I'm glad you have something that gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. I'd
advise you to try to expand that feeling as much as possible to encompass as
much of the rest of your life as possible.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Edgar
What
and much more than warm and fuzzy... tolerance and compassion merle
Edgar,
I'm glad you have something that gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. I'd
advise you to try to expand that feeling as much as possible to encompass as
much of the rest of your life as possible.
...Bill!
---
Edgar,
I don't know who the 'moron' is who made this up, but the 'moron' who
documented it was Mumon Ekai, former abbot of Kudoku-Hoin'yuji Zen Temple. He
included it as Case #5 in his koan collection THE GATELESS GATE which was fist
published in 1228.
...Bill!
--- In
Bill!,br/br/And yet here is Edgar trying to 'teach' us his theory and where
we're all going wrong.. Oh, the sweet irony!br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent
from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
...@hhs1963.org;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: [Zen] Re: The Book of Mirdad
Sent: Thu, Jun 13, 2013 2:46:17 AM
Edgar,
You asked, Did you need a teacher to start breathing when you were born?
I may have done that spontaneously but I may have needed a slap on my butt
Agreed... An eminently rational statement
Edgar
On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:27 AM, Bill! wrote:
Edgar,
There is nothing for which a human being NEEDS as teacher. You could
conceivably invent calculus on your own if you came to a situation where you
needed it. However most humans do
irony!
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: [Zen] Re: The Book of Mirdad
Sent: Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:27:35 AM
Edgar,
There is nothing for which a human being NEEDS as teacher. You could
conceivably
Edgar,br/br/And yet your ego's moved enough to comment on
it.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Oh, come on! It was a good comeback.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from
Yahoo! Mail for iPad
;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Book of Mirdad
Sent: Thu, Jun 13, 2013 12:24:26 PM
Mike,
Again a clever response that allows your ego to pat itself on the back rather
than get out of the way...
Edgar
On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:40 AM, uerusub
Bill,
As if reality didn't slap you around all the time?
The problem with you guy's insistence on having a teacher is it easily becomes
a sop and and an excuse for not doing the work yourself.
Insistence on a teacher is the sign of a dependent personality, and as long as
you wait for a
Yeh, but who's counting?...br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
#5!
Edgar
On Jun 13, 2013, at 10:18 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Yeh, but who's counting?...
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: The Book of Mirdad
Sent: Thu, Jun 13, 2013 2:03:24 PM
Brilliant!br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Bill!,
Well observed.
Those who undervalue the benefits we derive from being taught by parents and
teachers and by Culture reminds me of the efforts by some who engage in
electioneering. They sometimes try to enhance to an extreme their semblance of
independence and self-reliance.
A funny
Bill and Joe,
Yes, but your parents are supposed to teach you how to think rationally, not
teach you Zen.
Apparently the've failed on both accounts?
:-)
Edgar
On Jun 13, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Joe wrote:
Bill!,
Well observed.
Those who undervalue the benefits we derive from being taught
Hi, Edgar,
Parents and family teach us a lot more than thinking.
I went to a Zen teacher to teach me Zen practice. And learned with others,
there. It's our way. ;-)
(the Zen school has always emphasized practicing together).
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Bill and Joe,
Yes,
Edgar, hi, again,
Yes, I put it this way to show who's in, and who's out.
Anything to needle you and give you occasion to study-up on our sect. You've
clearly never done your homework, here, nor done a proper study with teacher
and sangha. But everyone here who has in fact practiced -- and
JMJM,
Who is your teacher? Sorry, I forget the name, Donald.
I agree that our practice must be largely physical to be authentic.
Others who only read from books, or claim to figure-things-out, are just
barking at a false Moon; their baying is shrill, inhuman, and ill. Thanks for
JMJM,
No, no. To me, that's like saying that food, or sleep, is the most efficient
medium. They must be in balance.
The Ch'an way is just to apply Ch'an methods in our practice. Steer clear of
Attachments!, like food, sleep, or Chi. But don't eschew them!: Eat, sleep,
and let energy flow;
joe..a bit of a calypso feel to it, eh? thanks for sharing... who was
sweetie?... merle
Merle,
If you can follow it, here you go:
Scarlet Begonias.
I've posted it before.
I was in town that night, but not at the concert hall. Sweetie and I were in
Central Park, under the fireworks.
Merle,
Calypso? I guess so. Never thought that way. Maybe it's so.
Just Jerry, Captain Trips, holding forth. And Bob Weir, Etc. Mickey on drums.
Tickling us in the neck and shoulders -- if we'd have *BEEN* there, on the New
Year's eve date -- on good blotter acid, or window-pane.
I was
Edgar,
You asked, Did you need a teacher to start breathing when you were born?
I may have done that spontaneously but I may have needed a slap on my butt to
start that process. I don't remember.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Bill,
Yes, in
Touché!br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Merle,
Meaning Edgar took Joe's statement below:
[Joe] But I plant trees assiduously to make up for what I cull.
...and turned it around on him by substituting people for trees.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
Â
 meaning what
Edgar,
Yes, demonstrating Buddha Nature is the 'answer' or 'solution' to all koans.
And yes, that could involve pointing, or an utterance, or some other action or
even silence and no action. And yes, you do have to 'convince' your teacher to
pass the koan - at least if you want to gain
Bill,
Yes, in the limited teacher student context. But as I've explained before
reality is the ONLY real teacher. Human teachers may or may not serve as little
pieces of reality that facilitate pointing out Buddha Nature.
But there is NO NEED AT ALL to 'convince' your teacher to pass the koan.
Edgar,
You write as tho you have caught your self engaged in self-deception, or
partial blindness of your own reality. For those of us who have a tendency
to prefer things to be slightly other than they are, or who have a lifetime
of not seeing certain parts of our functioning, ir can be useful
Chris,
I have no idea what you are saying here. Or where this seemingly irrational
conclusion came from. Or are you projecting?
Edgar
On Jun 11, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Edgar,
You write as tho you have caught your self engaged in self-deception, or
partial
I mean any human who has some psychological blindness to parts of their
current reality can benefit from interactions with another person,
especially in tasks where the tendency to fool yourself is a factor.
That's why teachers are generally useful. Your true statement about
teachers not being
Agreed...
Edgar
On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
I mean any human who has some psychological blindness to parts of their
current reality can benefit from interactions with another person, especially
in tasks where the tendency to fool yourself is a factor.
Merle,
Little wiring comes with the territory. Most of the B.S. we subscribe to is
merely painted-on (to us), by societal acquisition.
It can be shaken off, giving way to awakening, and liberation; much of it can
then afterwards be kept off, by continuous practice.
Some habit-energy
Merle,
quoting:
agreement is not necessarily awakening.
Right, Cousin; and neither is disagreement, ...necessarily.
Others, with EXPERIENCE with formal and intensive practice -- such as the folks
I mention -- can add weight to what just one Joe-Blow, for example -- herewith
exemplified --
Merle,
Merle is a sniper in her future life: very, very Military.
I always snip where relevant. Bandwidth is precious, and it costs some people
money who access the Forum while mobile. Wht re-run much of the past, when
only the relevant part is relevant?
When I reply, *I* DECIDE what I
Merle,
Merle the Art-Teacher, says no Teachers are necessary. Quick, where's the puke
receptacle?
Teachers are needed. Else, you do not learn proper methods. And you have
nothing to push against.
In our tradition, one needs a Dharma Friend / Antagonist.
And, in general, Humans require
joe...rubbish...there are self taught artists...e.g. french artist
Rousseau..
merle
Merle,
Merle the Art-Teacher, says no Teachers are necessary. Quick, where's the puke
receptacle?
Teachers are needed. Else, you do not learn proper methods. And you have
nothing to push against.
joe...i like email...it's so so personal.merle
Merle,
Merle is a sniper in her future life: very, very Military.
I always snip where relevant. Bandwidth is precious, and it costs some people
money who access the Forum while mobile. Wht re-run much of the past, when
only the
practise makes perfect... merle
Merle,
Little wiring comes with the territory. Most of the B.S. we subscribe to is
merely painted-on (to us), by societal acquisition.
It can be shaken off, giving way to awakening, and liberation; much of it can
then afterwards be kept off, by
Merle,
Artists, yes.
Maybe one in two is self-taught, despite all teachers's exertions.
But in Zen, it is different. Ours is a Human endeavor. More Human than Art.
You, Merle, only grasp at the exceptions. Phooey.
And no doubt, Rousseau had his influences.
He may not have admitted
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