Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 16:20 11/10/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: Another was "the shot heard 'round the world" fired at Lexington and Concord. I wish we could do it again. It would have been wonderful to have lived in that day when freedom was a flame upon every lip, or at least every lip that mattered. I stood in the middle of that bridge one day in a snowstorm and contemplated the great things that took place there. It was a powerful moment. I am grateful for my ancestors and their associates who cared enough about freedom to sacrifice their comfort and safety to secure them. Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
There are many who profess to be religious and speak of themselves as
Christians, and, according to one such, "as accepting the scriptures
only as sources of inspiration and moral truth," and then ask in their
smugness: "Do the revelations of God give us a handrail to the kingdom
of God, as the Lord's messenger told Lehi, or merely a compass?"
Unfortunately, some are among us who claim to be Church members but are
somewhat like the scoffers in Lehi's visionstanding aloof and seemingly
inclined to hold in derision the faithful who choose to accept Church
authorities as God's special witnesses of the gospel and His agents in
directing the affairs of the Church.
There are those in the Church who speak of themselves as liberals who,
as one of our former presidents has said, "read by the lamp of their own
conceit." (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine [Deseret Book Co., 1939], p.
373.) One time I asked one of our Church educational leaders how he
would define a liberal in the Church. He answered in one sentence: "A
liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a ."
The late Dr. John A. Widtsoe of the Council of the Twelve, an eminent
educator, make a statement relative to this word liberal as it applied
to those in the Church. This is what he said:
The self-called liberal [in the Church] is usually one who has broken
with the fundamental principles or guiding philosophy of the group to
which he belongs. . . . He claims membership in an organization but does
not believe in its basic concepts; and sets out to reform it by changing
its foundations. . . .
It is folly to speak of a liberal religion, if that religion claims that
it rests upon unchanging truth.
And then Dr. Widtsoe concludes his statement with this:
It is well to beware of people who go about proclaiming that they are or
their churches are liberal. The probabilities are that the structure of
their faith is built on sand and will not withstand the storms of truth.
("Evidences and Reconciliations," Improvement Era 44:609.)
(Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book
Co., 1974], 351.)
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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Too true, but there really were overlapping and conflicting claims, even amongst
the 13 colonies, let alone the rest of British North America (remember that there
weren't just 13 colonies -- it's just that you learn about those specifically
because they're later what became the USA). But I seem to remember border
disputes between New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Maryland, Virginia, etc. And the
Oregon Territory was a real mess of conflicting treaties and uncertainties.
Take Maine as an example. The reason it juts way up into Canada is that the
treaty that set its boundaries has as a key element a measurement of what's the
highest point in a certain area. Later surveys, after the border was fixed,
showed that the border should have been way to the south (and I mean like about
100 kms), but you can't unscramble omelets. That's what made the border run right
through the centre of some towns. There's one on the Quebec-Vermont border, iirc,
where there's a pool hall/tavern right on the border, and they've painted a
yellow line through the pub to show the border. It runs right across the pool
table! ("8 ball in the American SW pocket...")
"John W. Redelfs" wrote:
> After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with:
> >Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a
> >stamp tax
> >and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only "intolerable" because it put a
> >quick end
> >to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever
> >westwards.
>
> Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy. Might makes
> right. --JWR
>
> /
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> /
>
--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on Winston Churchill
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I was going from memory, as I implied, so will do some more research into this. It could be that it was something from the English Revolution (the so-called Glorious Revolution of the late 17th century). "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > >Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is > >"Toryism," > >and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that > >the one > >single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll > >tax. If > >I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called > >"Intolerable Acts"? > > I don't think so, but I may be wrong. The Stamp Act is what most enraged > the American colonials. The could not transact any business without buy a > stamp to make their paperwork official. Without a stamp, no contract was > binding, and the stamps were expensive. Other outrages that incited the > Yankees had to do with tariffs and duties. The colonials were used to free > trade, and were willing to resort to smuggling to gain it. Tariffs and > duties frustrated what they considered the right to trade. It was on this > account that we had our famous Boston Tea Party, one of the most wonderful > things to ever happen in the history of mankind, in my opinion. Another > was "the shot heard 'round the world" fired at Lexington and Concord. I > wish we could do it again. It would have been wonderful to have lived in > that day when freedom was a flame upon every lip, or at least every lip > that mattered. > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have > a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? I don't think so, but I may be wrong. The Stamp Act is what most enraged the American colonials. The could not transact any business without buy a stamp to make their paperwork official. Without a stamp, no contract was binding, and the stamps were expensive. Other outrages that incited the Yankees had to do with tariffs and duties. The colonials were used to free trade, and were willing to resort to smuggling to gain it. Tariffs and duties frustrated what they considered the right to trade. It was on this account that we had our famous Boston Tea Party, one of the most wonderful things to ever happen in the history of mankind, in my opinion. Another was "the shot heard 'round the world" fired at Lexington and Concord. I wish we could do it again. It would have been wonderful to have lived in that day when freedom was a flame upon every lip, or at least every lip that mattered. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only "intolerable" because it put a quick end to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever westwards. Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy. Might makes right. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I understand that. I was talking about the *British* imposing a poll tax on the colonies. I admit I'm only going from memory -- I just thought that was one of the intolerable acts. In any case, that Thatcher did this puts her in clear violation of the US constitutional principles she claims to have admired so much, and that's my actual point. Jim Cobabe wrote: > 24th Amendment > > The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or > other election for President or Vice President, for electors for > President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in > Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any > State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only "intolerable" because it put a quick end to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever westwards. Steven Montgomery wrote: > At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: > >It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the > >Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based > >Populist > >group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the > >Conservatives. > > > >Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is > >"Toryism," > >and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that > >the one > >single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll > >tax. If > >I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called > >"Intolerable Acts"? > > Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: > > Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765 > This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and > supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and > unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include > occupied buildings. > > Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774: > This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages > from the Boston Tea Party were paid for. > > Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774 > This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial > courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and > tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever > they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in > the colonies. > > Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774 > This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the > British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control > out of the hands of the colonialists. > > Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian > borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va. > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of > selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American > politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." > --Steven W. Mosher > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
24th Amendment The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 12:26 PM 11/10/02, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Spam Street Mimes Blow-In Cards --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765 This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include occupied buildings. Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774: This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages from the Boston Tea Party were paid for. Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774 This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in the colonies. Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774 This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control out of the hands of the colonialists. Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? Steven Montgomery wrote: > At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote: > >in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty > >here, > >and has been since 1970 or so. > > Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a > "progressive" (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which > ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time? > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of > selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American > politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." > --Steven W. Mosher > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote: in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty here, and has been since 1970 or so. Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a "progressive" (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Jim Cobabe wrote: > It is further obvious to me that some onlookers to the political scene > lack the discernment to note that good and honest people cannot in good > conscience affiliate, without serious reservations, with either of the > major political groups in this country. I have every confidence that > noted Church leaders who associate with the Democratic Party do not wish > to have it understood that they support or promote evil practices or > policies that contradict the spirit or letter of the law of the Gospel. > Pres. Jensen made that clear in his interview, in fact. He preferred to see LDS act as leaven (my word, not his) in political parties wherever we live. For instance, the only LDS MP in Britain that I know of is actually Labour (and yes, he's an active LDS). There's also an LDS member of the new Scottish Parliament, but I don't know which party he belongs to. In Canada I think at present we only have Dr. Grant Hill, from the riding of Macleod (he lives in Okotoks, an exurb of Calgary), in southern Alberta, in federal Parliament. We do have a rising cabinet minister whom I know well, in the provincial legislature, and that's Greg Melchin, Minister of Revenue (90% of his job is managing our Heritage Trust Fund, which is similar to Alaska's fund that JWR will know about). His brother used to be our branch president when we were in University Branch in Calgary (a ward now -- in those days all student units were branches, even though we were a ward-sized branch at the time), and the family is wealthy and influential (his father is a former 2Q70). The brother, Rick, is now the president of the Calgary West stake. Grant Hill is Canadian Alliance, which is right wing (they're the official opposition in Ottawa but are frustratingly ineffectual these days with a leader we never hear from unless it's to change feet in his mouth; Hill actually made a run for the party leadership and is one of the more effective Alliance MPs in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty here, and has been since 1970 or so. They're kind of like the Republicans in the US -- broad-based right-of-centre. In fact, Alberta has no net debt, continually runs surpluses, and is now working on working off all provincial debt. The province hasn't had to issue bonds since the Depression. But we don't elect parties here, we elect dynasties with very little opposition, which is unfortunate. We need a stronger opposition, no matter how good the current government is. We did have an inactive member, Ian McLelland, who was an Edmonton MP, but he's retired from politics now. I believe he was Alliance, too, but am not sure. Mark? In continental Europe I wouldn't know any more. The only political activist I ever knew was the famous Sister Gertrud Specht, whose story is on my website (http://www.members.shaw.ca/mschindler/C/Specht.htm "Do We Know What We Have: the Gertrud Specht Story"). She was SPD, which is the counterpart to a Democrat in the US or a Liberal here. I asked her why once, and she grinned slyly and said, "Ach, die Kirche hat schon genug CDU/CSUer" (Oh, the Church already has enough [Republican counterparts]"). She was always a woman ahead of her time. > > Church members owe their allegience first and foremost to God, then to > love their neighbors. Loyalty to partisan political ideals is properly > somewhere far down the list of priority. > > In my experience it is common to find "social" mormons with a misplaced > sense of loyalty to such matters. They identify more strongly with > sociopolitical ideology than with their faith in Christ. It shouldn't have to be either-or. As the 1P statement said, we ought to be involved. We've been *commanded* to get involved. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
It is further obvious to me that some onlookers to the political scene lack the discernment to note that good and honest people cannot in good conscience affiliate, without serious reservations, with either of the major political groups in this country. I have every confidence that noted Church leaders who associate with the Democratic Party do not wish to have it understood that they support or promote evil practices or policies that contradict the spirit or letter of the law of the Gospel. Church members owe their allegience first and foremost to God, then to love their neighbors. Loyalty to partisan political ideals is properly somewhere far down the list of priority. In my experience it is common to find "social" mormons with a misplaced sense of loyalty to such matters. They identify more strongly with sociopolitical ideology than with their faith in Christ. --- Mij Ebaboc / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Actually I've pondered the possibility of running as a democrat in the next State House election. The incumbent who just got reelected ran unopposed, there was no challenger from the Democratic Party. -- Steven Montgomery At 08:18 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: Not so far to the left that at least two well-known GAs have been active in the Utah party: Presidents Marlin K. Jensen and Faust. Pres. Jensen explained why, and what he felt he and like-minded LDS could do as a leavening contributor, in his famous interview with the Trib. Steven Montgomery wrote: > I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is > that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. > Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). > What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there > only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair > play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given. > > -- > Steven Montgomery > > At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: > >That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the > >Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the > >point the > >first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized > >Pres. Jensen > >for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly > >criticize > >the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against > >there in Utah. > > > >Steven Montgomery wrote: > > > > > Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st > > > Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of > > > the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, > > > Independent American Party, etc. > > > > > > -- > > > Steven Montgomery > > > > > > At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: > > > >So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern > > at the > > > >predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for > > you? > > > > > > > >Steven Montgomery wrote: > > > > > > > > > At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: > > > > > >After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: > > > > > >>If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to > > move to > > > > > >>the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. > > Which is > > > > > >>what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a > > death knell > > > > > >>for the Democratic Party. > > > > > > > > > > > >In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main > > > > > >parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its > > place. I'm > > > > > >tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator > > Pelosi. > > > > > I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go > > out and > > > > > celebrate! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Steven Montgomery > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct > > > > > political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and > > > > > comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn > > and be > > > > > able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the > > interests > > > > > of the world."--John Taylor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Marc A. Schindler > > > >Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland > > > > > > > >"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he > > > >will pick > > > >himself up and continue on" Winston Churchill > > > > > > > >Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the > > author > > > >solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's > > > >employer, > > > >nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. > > > > > > > >/// > > // > > > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > >/// > > // > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Steven Montgomery > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.getusout.org";> > > > src="http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif";> > > > > > > > > > > > >
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 08:17 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: Steven Montgomery wrote: --- I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. --- It appears to me that partisan affiliation is largely irrelevant, at least at the national level. Both major national parties promote platform issues that are morally unacceptable, insupportable, and insufferable, to any person still gifted with the light of Christ. In fact, in the deepest darkest depths of these organizations lurk evils so horrifyingly abominable that it amazes me to see apparently otherwise decent people so associate themselves. They are truly Gadianton Bands, fulfilling every item on the checklist of devilish evil and depravity. Beneath the centrist mask, many of the principal policy makers openly espouse ideals that would compromise the very social and political foundations of the world. If such fundamentally evil people ever come to power unopposed and free to act, it will be a day of great calamity. This far, in this modern age, we have been fortunate that these forces must continually compromise their true inclinations to disguise the real evil they intend. --- Mij Ebaboc I pretty much agree with your assessment. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Not so far to the left that at least two well-known GAs have been active in the Utah party: Presidents Marlin K. Jensen and Faust. Pres. Jensen explained why, and what he felt he and like-minded LDS could do as a leavening contributor, in his famous interview with the Trib. Steven Montgomery wrote: > I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is > that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. > Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). > What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there > only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair > play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given. > > -- > Steven Montgomery > > At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: > >That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the > >Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the > >point the > >first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized > >Pres. Jensen > >for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly > >criticize > >the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against > >there in Utah. > > > >Steven Montgomery wrote: > > > > > Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st > > > Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of > > > the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, > > > Independent American Party, etc. > > > > > > -- > > > Steven Montgomery > > > > > > At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: > > > >So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern > > at the > > > >predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for > > you? > > > > > > > >Steven Montgomery wrote: > > > > > > > > > At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: > > > > > >After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: > > > > > >>If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to > > move to > > > > > >>the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. > > Which is > > > > > >>what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a > > death knell > > > > > >>for the Democratic Party. > > > > > > > > > > > >In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main > > > > > >parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its > > place. I'm > > > > > >tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator > > Pelosi. > > > > > I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go > > out and > > > > > celebrate! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Steven Montgomery > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct > > > > > political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and > > > > > comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn > > and be > > > > > able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the > > interests > > > > > of the world."--John Taylor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Marc A. Schindler > > > >Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland > > > > > > > >"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he > > > >will pick > > > >himself up and continue on" Winston Churchill > > > > > > > >Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the > > author > > > >solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's > > > >employer, > > > >nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. > > > > > > > >/// > > // > > > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > >/// > > // > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Steven Montgomery > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.getusout.org";> > > src="http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif";> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > / > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > >
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Steven Montgomery wrote: --- I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. --- It appears to me that partisan affiliation is largely irrelevant, at least at the national level. Both major national parties promote platform issues that are morally unacceptable, insupportable, and insufferable, to any person still gifted with the light of Christ. In fact, in the deepest darkest depths of these organizations lurk evils so horrifyingly abominable that it amazes me to see apparently otherwise decent people so associate themselves. They are truly Gadianton Bands, fulfilling every item on the checklist of devilish evil and depravity. Beneath the centrist mask, many of the principal policy makers openly espouse ideals that would compromise the very social and political foundations of the world. If such fundamentally evil people ever come to power unopposed and free to act, it will be a day of great calamity. This far, in this modern age, we have been fortunate that these forces must continually compromise their true inclinations to disguise the real evil they intend. --- Mij Ebaboc / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given. -- Steven Montgomery At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote: That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the point the first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized Pres. Jensen for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly criticize the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against there in Utah. Steven Montgomery wrote: > Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st > Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of > the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, > Independent American Party, etc. > > -- > Steven Montgomery > > At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: > >So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the > >predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? > > > >Steven Montgomery wrote: > > > > > At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: > > > >After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: > > > >>If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to > > > >>the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is > > > >>what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell > > > >>for the Democratic Party. > > > > > > > >In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main > > > >parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm > > > >tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. > > > > > > > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. > > > I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and > > > celebrate! ;-) > > > > > > -- > > > Steven Montgomery > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct > > > political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and > > > comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be > > > able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests > > > of the world."--John Taylor > > > > > > > > / > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > / > > > > > > >-- > >Marc A. Schindler > >Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland > > > >"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he > >will pick > >himself up and continue on" Winston Churchill > > > >Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author > >solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's > >employer, > >nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. > > > >/// // > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >/// // > > > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.getusout.org";> > src="http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif";> > > > > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on" Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / /
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Yeah, yeah, okay, so we're playing around. But my serious point is that it's going to be very difficult for Respublicans to blame anybody else if they screw up from here on in. Jon Spencer wrote: > Sorry, but there are too many books I've already read, seminary stuff, and > dust under my bed to fit either bugbears OR guilt under my bed. > > Jon > > - Original Message - > From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM > Subject: Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil... > > Jon Spencer wrote: > > > You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal > vice. > > You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/ > Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still > bugbears under your bed, it seems. > > -- > Marc A. Schindler > Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland > > "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will > pick > himself up and continue on" - Winston Churchill > > Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the > author > solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's > employer, > nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. > > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > / > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Sorry, but there are too many books I've already read, seminary stuff, and dust under my bed to fit either bugbears OR guilt under my bed. Jon - Original Message - From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil... Jon Spencer wrote: > You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal vice. You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/ Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still bugbears under your bed, it seems. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on" - Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the point the first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized Pres. Jensen for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly criticize the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against there in Utah. Steven Montgomery wrote: > Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st > Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of > the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, > Independent American Party, etc. > > -- > Steven Montgomery > > At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: > >So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the > >predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? > > > >Steven Montgomery wrote: > > > > > At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: > > > >After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: > > > >>If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to > > > >>the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is > > > >>what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell > > > >>for the Democratic Party. > > > > > > > >In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main > > > >parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm > > > >tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. > > > > > > > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. > > > I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and > > > celebrate! ;-) > > > > > > -- > > > Steven Montgomery > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct > > > political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and > > > comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be > > > able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests > > > of the world."--John Taylor > > > > > > > > / > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > / > > > > > > >-- > >Marc A. Schindler > >Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland > > > >"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he > >will pick > >himself up and continue on" Winston Churchill > > > >Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author > >solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's > >employer, > >nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. > > > >/ > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >/ > > > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.getusout.org";> src="http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif";> > > > > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Indeed. This is also what seems to have happened in Turkey with the recent election, incidentally. A party with Islamist roots appears to have a much more pragmatic platform (in any case, Turkey's constitution declares the secular nature of the country, and the military have traditionally reined in any outlyers). Stephen Beecroft wrote: > -Jim- > > Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take > > over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress [...] It will be > > truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the > > new Democrat organization. > > -John- > >> [Steven] Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for > >> the Democratic Party. > > > > In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the > > two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can > > take its place. > > -Steven- > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose > > Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor > > their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) > > It appears you've gotten your wish. I certainly hope you all are right. > My observation is that when wackos get into leadership position, they > eventually stop looking quite so wacky. "A monster of so frightful mien" > and all that. > > Stephen > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, Independent American Party, etc. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote: So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? Steven Montgomery wrote: > At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: > >After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: > >>If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to > >>the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is > >>what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell > >>for the Democratic Party. > > > >In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main > >parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm > >tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. > I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and > celebrate! ;-) > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct > political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and > comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be > able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests > of the world."--John Taylor > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on" Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.getusout.org";>http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif";> / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Jon Spencer wrote: > You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal vice. You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/ Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still bugbears under your bed, it seems. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you? Steven Montgomery wrote: > At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: > >After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: > >>If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to > >>the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is > >>what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell > >>for the Democratic Party. > > > >In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main > >parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm > >tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. > I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and > celebrate! ;-) > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct > political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and > comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be > able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests > of the world."--John Taylor > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
-Jim- > Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take > over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress [...] It will be > truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the > new Democrat organization. -John- >> [Steven] Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for >> the Democratic Party. > > In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the > two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can > take its place. -Steven- > I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose > Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor > their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) It appears you've gotten your wish. I certainly hope you all are right. My observation is that when wackos get into leadership position, they eventually stop looking quite so wacky. "A monster of so frightful mien" and all that. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle! Blame is a liberal vice. Are you saying that it was not the Senate which has held up all of the judicial appointments, or homeland security, or prescription drugs, or ? And the threat from the Dems is not over. You need 60 votes in the Senate to get anything controversial through. However, if Pelosi is installed as the Minority leader, then the Republicans can probably get some moderate Dems to break the logjam. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: If I were you, I'd be more worried about what might happen if Administration policies fail. There's no Democratic Congress to blame anymore. Jim Cobabe wrote: > Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top > of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon > the sinking ship. Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her > whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism. Near as I can tell, > she is an icon for everything that disgusted me about the Clintonistas. > In other words, the perfect model to represent Demoncratic leadership in > US politics. > > It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the > new Democrat organization. Then they can vent their angst over > irrelevant non-issues like equal pay for women and human rights in > China, while the real leadership addresses substantive matters. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] ". . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world."--John Taylor / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi. One of the two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place. I'm tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 06:27 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon the sinking ship. Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism. Near as I can tell, she is an icon for everything that disgusted me about the Clintonistas. In other words, the perfect model to represent Demoncratic leadership in US politics. It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the new Democrat organization. Then they can vent their angst over irrelevant non-issues like equal pay for women and human rights in China, while the real leadership addresses substantive matters. --- Mij Ebaboc If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the Democratic Party. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Explore Freedom: http://www.geocities.com/graymada / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
If I were you, I'd be more worried about what might happen if Administration policies fail. There's no Democratic Congress to blame anymore. Jim Cobabe wrote: > Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top > of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon > the sinking ship. Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her > whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism. Near as I can tell, > she is an icon for everything that disgusted me about the Clintonistas. > In other words, the perfect model to represent Demoncratic leadership in > US politics. > > It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the > new Democrat organization. Then they can vent their angst over > irrelevant non-issues like equal pay for women and human rights in > China, while the real leadership addresses substantive matters. > > --- > Mij Ebaboc > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
